Pippen - the worst advic possible.

[porkpa]

Strictly speaking economics, Scottie Pippen's advice to Zion could not be worse.
In his short time at Duke, Zion Williamson has built a reputation than no person ever in my fifty plus years of following this team has. I think you'd have to go back to the days of Lew Alcidor(Kareem Abdul Jabbar), if then, to find a college player who has ever received so much media attention.
He has everything sponsors look for. He is a generational player. He works hard, smiles a lot and is one of the most unselfish team players I have ever seen.
I would not be surprised if he gets more endorsement offers coming into the NBA than any player ever.
If he left at this time, a great deal of that would evaporate.
I probably should not be talking about it, because there is zero chance that it will happen.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Is there a link I am missing somewhere?

[flyingdutchdevil]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/01/16/dukes-zion-williamson-should-shut-it-down-until-nba-draft-says-scottie-pippen/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.4a8e1c7c3e34

Basically, Pippen is telling Zion is stop playing because of injuries.

I get Pippen's perspective and Zion isn't playing for $$$ right now; he'll get paid regardless of whether he plays out the rest of the season or sits out. The "expected value" is likely higher with him sitting out due to injury (assuming sitting out doesn't cost him endorsement $$$).

I mean, to me, this is even more reason why kids need to go directly to the NBA from high school. Yes, it's awesome that Zion is in college and at Duke. But he shouldn't be. He is an NBA-ready player now and should be paid for it.

[nmduke2001]

Pippen wasn't the first. This dude had the idea over a month ago....

https://balldurham.com/2018/12/13/duke-basketball-zion-risks-billion/

[Jeffrey]

Strictly speaking economics, Scottie Pippen's advice to Zion could not be worse.


Now, now, let's be fair to Scottie. It's rather well known, in the finance world, that Pippen is an economic and financial expert.

[Jeffrey]

(assuming sitting out doesn't cost him endorsement $$$).


IMO, that's a major assumption. In addition, you're also assuming playing more does not earn him more endorsement money. IMO, each 360 dunk, played many times on ESPN, is money.

[Steven43]

Yes, it's awesome that Zion is in college and at Duke. But he shouldn't be.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ2jJtFRpUc

[martydoesntfoul]

Now, now, let's be fair to Scottie. It's rather well known, in the finance world, that Pippen is an economic and financial expert.Though, candidly, he does have experience quitting.

[golfinesquire]

I don't think it is bad advice at all. We want to see him play but there is a huge financial downside to him getting hurt and, at this point, more limited upside to the continuing coaching and exposure that he is getting. As someone pointed out, this is more ammo for the argument that the one and done rule has outlived its usefulness.

[kAzE]

I don't think I've ever agreed with a single Scottie Pippen take. Rachel Nichols is an incredible sports journalist, but most of ESPN's other NBA talking heads are AWFUL. Pretty much all of the former players on ESPN are clueless (Tim Legler is the only one I can think of who actually is good). I literally have to change the channel anytime the ESPN studio crew (Beadle, Pierce, Billups, and Rose) are on. It's like they tried to steal TNT's idea of Barkley and Shaq (who often have no idea what they are talking about, but are actually entertaining), but got guys who aren't very entertaining at all, and still have no idea what they are talking about.

Jalen Rose thinks he's WAY smarter than he really is, and Paul Pierce's takes are almost as bad as Pippen. Chauncey is a genuinely likeable personality, but his player evaluations are just inexplicably way off. I'm shocked that he was even offered the Cavalier's GM job (but considering it's the Cavs, maybe not). Having him do the draft, which he did this past draft, was an embarrassment.

Totally on board with allowing high schoolers to go straight to the NBA, but come on man. Zion is the best thing in sports right now. How would quitting on his team look to NBA teams? Probably not good. The best thing about Zion is that despite his talent, he's a team player. Get that garbage take out of here.

[Steven43]

I wish I knew how to make links clickable on DBR

[lotusland]

I wouldn’t be surprised if a player bails after a dazzling first half of a season sometime if the OAD era continues but not Zion. The whole recruiting pitch seems to be getting them to the NBA as a high draft pick. Injury risk is real so if that’s your goal, there’s a good argument to be made for shutting it down. Hopefully the OAD issue will be resolved before we ever see a player bail during the season but I don’t think it would hurt his NBA draft stock or marketability at all.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Where was Pippen's college experience?

Okay then.

[Troublemaker]

I mean, to me, this is even more reason why kids need to go directly to the NBA from high school. Yes, it's awesome that Zion is in college and at Duke. But he shouldn't be. He is an NBA-ready player now and should be paid for it.

I mean, very few people disagree. But the only ones that matter -- NBA owners -- do.

[JasonEvans]

I mean, very few people disagree. But the only ones that matter -- NBA owners -- do.

Actually, if reports are to be believed, the owners would be cool with it but it must be collectively bargained and the players (rightly) think that any chance the owners want should also provide something they want. The owners don't want it enough to give up something meaningful to the players so the rule remains the same. Because it is collectively bargained, overturning it in court is quite difficult.

Whatever... we all know the players should be allowed to go to the NBA. We also all know that they do get some tangible benefits in terms of exposure, coaching, and adjujstment to a higher level of the sport from attending college.

Question -- can anyone think of a player who got injured in college and lost a sure-fire pro career because of it? I am sure there are some guys but I am drawing a blank

-Jason "Randy Livingston comes close... but he tore his ACL while playing in a pickup game the summer before arriving at LSU so I don't think that counts" Evans

[bluenorth]

Unfortunately Pippen's thought process may catch on. There have been some instances already of college football players skipping bowl games so as to not hurt their draft stock. Likewise some injured football players "shut it down" when they may have had time to rehab and return to action (Bosa at Ohio State). Mind you, when you consider the short career life of the average NFL player this probably makes some sense.

Thankfully the same is so far not the case for college basketball players. Being injured doesn't seem to really hurt their standing in the draft much. In recent years we've seen players who didn't play much in college still be lottery picks for the NBA draft. Kyrie Irving and Harry Giles come to mind just from Duke. The NBA teams seem to make up their minds very early about the status of a player relative to the rest of his draft class. Zion could not play another minute all year and still go in the top 3.

[Matches]

I wouldn’t be surprised if a player bails after a dazzling first half of a season sometime if the OAD era continues but not Zion.

Yea I agree, and have thought so for years. It won't be Zion but it will be someone. Pippen's not really wrong. Zion's brand, endorsements, notoriety etc are all sky high. Being at Duke and playing college bball has increased his visibility, to be sure, but that's really not dependent on him playing the whole season. It's already happened.

If and when something like that does happen, it's going to play havoc with college basketball and it's going to be an uggggly scene.

(I'm a little bit surprised Ben Simmons didn't do this, actually.)

[Troublemaker]

Actually, if reports are to be believed, the owners would be cool with it but it must be collectively bargained and the players (rightly) think that any chance the owners want should also provide something they want. The owners don't want it enough to give up something meaningful to the players so the rule remains the same. Because it is collectively bargained, overturning it in court is quite difficult.

Whatever... we all know the players should be allowed to go to the NBA. We also all know that they do get some tangible benefits in terms of exposure, coaching, and adjujstment to a higher level of the sport from attending college.

Question -- can anyone think of a player who got injured in college and lost a sure-fire pro career because of it? I am sure there are some guys but I am drawing a blank

-Jason "Randy Livingston comes close... but he tore his ACL while playing in a pickup game the summer before arriving at LSU so I don't think that counts" Evans

Where's your link for that sir? I've heard the exact opposite.

The NBPA wants it, but in return, the owners demand that agents release medical information on draft prospects to EVERY team, not just to the team or teams they want the player to go to. Here's my link: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25032283/nba-nbpa-talks-ending-one-done-facing-final-hurdle.

(Note: it's possible Marvin Bagley wouldn't have been the #2 pick if this rule were in place. He went to Sacramento in part because he wanted to be in Sacramento or at least didn't mind it.)

That makes sense to me. The owners like OAD. To get rid of it, they need to get something back.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yea I agree, and have thought so for years. It won't be Zion but it will be someone. Pippen's not really wrong. Zion's brand, endorsements, notoriety etc are all sky high. Being at Duke and playing college bball has increased his visibility, to be sure, but that's really not dependent on him playing the whole season. It's already happened.

If and when something like that does happen, it's going to play havoc with college basketball and it's going to be an uggggly scene.

(I'm a little bit surprised Ben Simmons didn't do this, actually.)

Yup. I don't think it will be Zion, but it will happen in the next few years (unless kids-to-the-NBA reverses...again). For all we know, it's already happened, but a player used an injury to fake it.

[MarkD83]

So to make this more painful to all of us Duke fans. An honorable way to "shut it down" is to suffer an injury and then take as much time as possible to recover from the injury.

In <10 games Kyrie showed what an amazing talent he would be in the NBA. He unfortunately suffered an injury and then spent 90% of the season recovering. Somewhere in that time period he may have been able to come back at 80% or 90% of his original talent level. However if he was thinking about his future he may have erred on the side of caution. This is not a criticism of Kyrie just a thought process that needs to be considered when looking at recovery from an injury.

The painful thought is that Tre may have already shown that he has enough talent to be drafted higher in the 1st round than we think. At what point of time should we accept that Tre needs to consider his future in the NBA and adjust his recovery time to err on the side of caution.

By the way I hate thinking about this because I want this team to be great, but since the top players on Duke's team are headed to the NBA they should be thinking about their futures and we should accept that.

[BLPOG]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ2jJtFRpUc


I wish I knew how to make links clickable on DBR

Give a man a hyperlink, and you've helped him for a day.

Teach a man to hyperlink (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ2jJtFRpUc), and you've helped him for a lifetime.

8956

[BigWayne]

I wish I knew how to make links clickable on DBR

{url=http://theacc.com/documents/2019/1/16/2019_Team_By_Team_Football_Schedule.pdf}Click this link.{/url}

The syntax is like the above, except you change the curly brackets to square brackets and get this:

Click this link. (http://theacc.com/documents/2019/1/16/2019_Team_By_Team_Football_Schedule.pdf)

Also, if you don't want to have text that is different than the link, you can usually just paste the link and then hit return and it will get highlighted/linked automatically.
if you don't add the carriage return to the end of the line you pasted with the http address, it won't get highlighted.

[Jeffrey]

K is earning his money this week!

[Owen Meany]

Now, now, let's be fair to Scottie. It's rather well known, in the finance world, that Pippen is an economic and financial expert.

This hits a little too close to home on this board, since he was owed $2.5 million by a couple of former players. Maybe this is Pippen's payback.

[elvis14]

I was talking with a friend of mine last night about Pippen's take. There was one thing that I hadn't considered and that's the timing. If Zion were to shut it down, he could start signing endorsement deals today. He'd still be the #1 overall pick in the NBA draft and would still make tons of $$ playing ball. Pippen basically said with what Zion has shown so far, and what he showed against Syracuse that he doesn't really have anything left to prove to NBA scouts/execs. As a Duke fan my initial reaction was shall we say less than positive.

Look at it this way. If Zion were to shut it down and could sign a guaranteed $250million deal with Nike/Adidas/UA/Gatorade/Stiflers_Mom with a $10million dollar signing bonus tomorrow, could we really blame him? He could spend a few months working with trainers and shooting coaches and making commercials where he does 360 dunks and flashes that big beautiful smile for the camera.

I pulled those numbers out of thin air but I seem to remember a rookie golfer getting a $40million 5 year contract with Nike about 22 years ago (followed by a $100million contract in 2001). I've seen rumors that L.James contract with Nike tops $1billion.

[BigWayne]

I was talking with a friend of mine last night about Pippen's take. There was one thing that I hadn't considered and that's the timing. If Zion were to shut it down, he could start signing endorsement deals today. He'd still be the #1 overall pick in the NBA draft and would still make tons of $$ playing ball. Pippen basically said with what Zion has shown so far, and what he showed against Syracuse that he doesn't really have anything left to prove to NBA scouts/execs. As a Duke fan my initial reaction was shall we say less than positive.

Look at it this way. If Zion were to shut it down and could sign a guaranteed $250million deal with Nike/Adidas/UA/Gatorade/Stiflers_Mom with a $10million dollar signing bonus tomorrow, could we really blame him? He could spend a few months working with trainers and shooting coaches and making commercials where he does 360 dunks and flashes that big beautiful smile for the camera.

I pulled those numbers out of thin air but I seem to remember a rookie golfer getting a $40million 5 year contract with Nike about 22 years ago (followed by a $100million contract in 2001). I've seen rumors that L.James contract with Nike tops $1billion.

The backlash from quitting his team mid season would hurt his endorsement value pretty badly IMHO. While a lot of us know that the NCAA is a mirage of amateurism, a large part of the population that marketers are targeting have fallen for the NCAA promoted image.

[MPandolfi]

For all he’s done in becoming an all-time great, Pippen doesn’t mind quitting on his teammates.

https://youtu.be/bYcjCoy7R4I

[kako]

The backlash from quitting his team mid season would hurt his endorsement value pretty badly IMHO. While a lot of us know that the NCAA is a mirage of amateurism, a large part of the population that marketers are targeting have fallen for the NCAA promoted image.

Obviously few people on this board want Zion to quit. And I also normally don't think much of what Pippin (or any ex-athlete) would ever say. However, I tend to disagree that the backlash would be overwhelming. As noted earlier, players sit out bowl games all the time now and get drafted high. Kids (allegedly) commit all kinds of crimes and still get drafted high. The pros, the ones who would pay Zion, don't care. He could still go #1 anyway, and as long as there is no criminal activity or stupidity involved (or even if there is - see Winston, Jamies), Nike or anyone else would still give him an endorsement now, all based on the future.

But here's the thing - while knocking on everything wooden around me - if Zion or any other freshman star tears his Achilles or has some other ultra-major injury on the court, Pippin will be right. Zion wouldn't have come to Duke except for the 1AD rule. He'd be making millions now. And if he has a career killing injury, that's all gone. Is it low probability? Sure. Can Zion take out an insurance policy on himself? Yes. Can he learn more from K and hopefully bask in Final 4 or natty? Yes! I'm sure he's a competitor, and he wants to play. But reality is what reality is when it comes to NBA money. If it ever happens to just one kid, I think we will see at least some freshman college athletes doing just what Pippin says to do - especially while 1AD exists.

9F

[uh_no]

However, I tend to disagree that the backlash would be overwhelming.

It wouldn't be for me. It's all an economic decision. Players forego $ in the D-league to go to college and get exposure bucks (and real bucks in the case of adidas...)...as soon as that tradeoff doesn't make sense, the player ought not be under any obligation to continue. That's why players bow out of bowl games, and that's why if Zion bowed out, I'd wish him the beset of luck, and go on with my life.

The world where partnerships imply any sort of loyalty has long flown out the window. Yes it would be great if players would honor their word and play out the year, but I'd think about such a player in the same way that I'd think about a coach or school who bailed on a contract with the ink still wet. Companies lay off employees who have been there for years, and employees quit companies who have done right by them for different opportunities...it's just how things are...If stopping playing is what's best for zion, then I wouldn't fault him for doing it..

That said, one shouldn't undersell the value of continued college success...we're not here talking about Laettner's NBA career, and Jordan definitely gets a huge amount of value out of bringing a title to UNC (not that he needs it, but the it's definitely of value)

[mph]

Obviously few people on this board want Zion to quit. And I also normally don't think much of what Pippin (or any ex-athlete) would ever say. However, I tend to disagree that the backlash would be overwhelming. As noted earlier, players sit out bowl games all the time now and get drafted high. Kids (allegedly) commit all kinds of crimes and still get drafted high. The pros, the ones who would pay Zion, don't care. He could still go #1 anyway, and as long as there is no criminal activity or stupidity involved (or even if there is - see Winston, Jamies), Nike or anyone else would still give him an endorsement now, all based on the future.

But here's the thing - while knocking on everything wooden around me - if Zion or any other freshman star tears his Achilles or has some other ultra-major injury on the court, Pippin will be right. Zion wouldn't have come to Duke except for the 1AD rule. He'd be making millions now. And if he has a career killing injury, that's all gone. Is it low probability? Sure. Can Zion take out an insurance policy on himself? Yes. Can he learn more from K and hopefully bask in Final 4 or natty? Yes! I'm sure he's a competitor, and he wants to play. But reality is what reality is when it comes to NBA money. If it ever happens to just one kid, I think we will see at least some freshman college athletes doing just what Pippin says to do - especially while 1AD exists.

9F

I think the NCAA tournament makes the potential for backlash different for most elite basketball players. I don’t recall a healthy college football player sitting out a BCS playoff game (but my memory might well be wrong). I think any player costing his team a chance to compete for a national title would face something of a backlash.

At the end of the regular season only 4 football teams have a chance to win the national championship while 68 basketball teams are still technically championship contenders. Additionally, OAD players are most heavily clustered at P5 teams with legitimate championship aspirations (with exceptions like Simmons), so I think it’s going to be a more difficult calculation for most elite basketball players.

Although I have no idea how you’d calculate the potential endorsement hit, I suspect that the narrative that a player cost his teammates a chance to win a title would give some companies pause.

[duke79]

]I was talking with a friend of mine last night about Pippen's take. There was one thing that I hadn't considered and that's the timing. If Zion were to shut it down, he could start signing endorsement deals today. He'd still be the #1 overall pick in the NBA draft and would still make tons of $$ playing ball. Pippen basically said with what Zion has shown so far, and what he showed against Syracuse that he doesn't really have anything left to prove to NBA scouts/execs. As a Duke fan my initial reaction was shall we say less than positive.[/B]

Look at it this way. If Zion were to shut it down and could sign a guaranteed $250million deal with Nike/Adidas/UA/Gatorade/Stiflers_Mom with a $10million dollar signing bonus tomorrow, could we really blame him? He could spend a few months working with trainers and shooting coaches and making commercials where he does 360 dunks and flashes that big beautiful smile for the camera.

I pulled those numbers out of thin air but I seem to remember a rookie golfer getting a $40million 5 year contract with Nike about 22 years ago (followed by a $100million contract in 2001). I've seen rumors that L.James contract with Nike tops $1billion.

Yea, I think you're probably right here. There's little doubt in my mind that, if he did quit now, he would still get tens of millions of dollars of endorsement deals (right away, if he wanted them now). And I'm sure he would still be the first or second pick in the draft, just based on his play so far. It might bother some people or companies if he did quit now but I'm sure most NBA people and companies realize his value on the court and in the endorsement world. IMO, greed would easily overtake any misgivings that they might have.

There is a HUGE economic loss if he suffers some sort of career-ending injury (God forbid and let's not even think about that!) and he and his family have to consider that risk at this time.

I know it sounds crazy on its face but Scottie Pippin MAY be right here!

[Pghdukie]

I remember a reporter years ago, asking Kobie "do you miss not playing in the NCAA tournament ". Kobie's answer was "EVERYDAY".

[uh_no]

I remember a reporter years ago, asking Kobie "do you miss not playing in the NCAA tournament ". Kobie's answer was "EVERYDAY".

I'd imagine Lebrawn and Dwite agree as well! :D

[WVDUKEFAN]

Meanwhile, Pippen’s son just signed a scholarship to play at Vanderbilt.

[fuse]

From a pure financial perspective, its hard to discredit Pippen’s view.

I’ve said it a few times in other threads, beyond the obvious talent and ability, I am more impressed by Zion’s expressions of joy on the court.

I’d expect him to be pretty miserable about choosing not to play.

[Jeffrey]

This hits a little too close to home on this board, since he was owed $2.5 million by a couple of former players. Maybe this is Pippen's payback.

I doubt Pippen associates their behavior with The Brotherhood, since they also burned members of The Brotherhood.

[Owen Meany]

I doubt Pippen associates their behavior with The Brotherhood, since they also burned members of The Brotherhood.

Yeah, I was just joking due to the coincidence of Pippen, Duke and financial advice.

[arnie]

Pippen wasn't the first. This dude had the idea over a month ago...

https://balldurham.com/2018/12/13/duke-basketball-zion-risks-billion/

Yea can’t argue with a lot in this article; but Zion appears to enjoy the game and the old “money can’t buy happiness” may apply here.

[Troublemaker]

The painful thought is that Tre may have already shown that he has enough talent to be drafted higher in the 1st round than we think. At what point of time should we accept that Tre needs to consider his future in the NBA and adjust his recovery time to err on the side of caution.

Pretty sure that's what the Duke staff is doing.

I'm usually pretty cynical, but these players seem to really like each other and enjoy playing with one another. In my mind, Tre is chomping at the bit to get back on the court, and our medical staff and coaches are taking every precaution to hold him back until he's really ready.

[Troublemaker]

Look at it this way. If Zion were to shut it down and could sign a guaranteed $250million deal with Nike/Adidas/UA/Gatorade/Stiflers_Mom with a $10million dollar signing bonus tomorrow, could we really blame him? He could spend a few months working with trainers and shooting coaches and making commercials where he does 360 dunks and flashes that big beautiful smile for the camera.

Yes.

Keeping in mind that (a) I don't believe this hypothetical Zion exists (our actual Zion wants to play for Duke one full season) and (b) this hypothetical Zion wouldn't care what anyone thinks about his decision, yes, he would deserve criticism for abandoning his teammates and coaches.

[WVDUKEFAN]

Yea can’t argue with a lot in this article; but Zion appears to enjoy the game and the old “money can’t buy happiness” may apply here.

He’s awesome both as a person and a player. Just a great kid.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Where was Pippen's college experience?

Okay then.

BEAT. ME. TO. IT.
Pippen has no idea what playing at Duke can do for a player....in so many ways.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Look at it this way. If Zion were to shut it down and could sign a guaranteed $250million deal with Nike/Adidas/UA/Gatorade/Stiflers_Mom with a $10million dollar signing bonus tomorrow, could we really blame him? He could spend a few months working with trainers and shooting coaches and making commercials where he does 360 dunks and flashes that big beautiful smile for the camera.

I pulled those numbers out of thin air but I seem to remember a rookie golfer getting a $40million 5 year contract with Nike about 22 years ago (followed by a $100million contract in 2001). I've seen rumors that L.James contract with Nike tops $1billion.

Look at it this way. That's not who Zion is. The very thing that makes him so genuine and dazzling as an endorser....is the very reason he won't do this.

[sagegrouse]

Yea I agree, and have thought so for years. It won't be Zion but it will be someone. Pippen's not really wrong. Zion's brand, endorsements, notoriety etc are all sky high. Being at Duke and playing college bball has increased his visibility, to be sure, but that's really not dependent on him playing the whole season. It's already happened.

If and when something like that does happen, it's going to play havoc with college basketball and it's going to be an uggggly scene.

(I'm a little bit surprised Ben Simmons didn't do this, actually.)

Yeah, but dropping off the Duke team is a blot on his character, and it wil earn the enmity of college hoops fans (except maybe a few Duke haters) that will affect his market value going forward and also make owenrship and teammates wonder about him.

[MrPoon]

Sorry if this has been said, I’m a little late to the discussion.
There is an irony here of course. That because Zion’s brand has drastically increased because he did go to Duke. Yes he has a zillion YouTube followers but that would not have made him the #1 pick nor would it have wowed sponsors the way this year has on national TV against top flight talent. Steve Kerr isn’t talking about him if he’s not at Duke. Plus its been a bit of a vertious circle, being at Duke and being spectacular has made him further hyped but so to has the hype around being part of the 1-2-3 recruiting class.
Duke has been good for the Z brand. The Z brand has been good to Duke.

An injury might hurt his stock some. But at his age, I suspect few injuries could be material enough to knock him off the #1 spot and if it does, it would probably move him back to his previous 2-5 spot before conning to Duke. But the sponsors will still be VERY interested. I do agree that its nearly impossible to increase his brand from today forward, but a title might increase his rep.

The comp to football is very different. Basketball injuries are nowhere as frequent or as severe. Plus the NFL age requirement makes the wear and tear even more significant.
I do think Kyler Murray should pick baseball but that could side track the conversation and that NEVER happens on DBR.

[kshepinthehouse]

So to make this more painful to all of us Duke fans. An honorable way to "shut it down" is to suffer an injury and then take as much time as possible to recover from the injury.

In <10 games Kyrie showed what an amazing talent he would be in the NBA. He unfortunately suffered an injury and then spent 90% of the season recovering. Somewhere in that time period he may have been able to come back at 80% or 90% of his original talent level. However if he was thinking about his future he may have erred on the side of caution. This is not a criticism of Kyrie just a thought process that needs to be considered when looking at recovery from an injury.

The painful thought is that Tre may have already shown that he has enough talent to be drafted higher in the 1st round than we think. At what point of time should we accept that Tre needs to consider his future in the NBA and adjust his recovery time to err on the side of caution.

By the way I hate thinking about this because I want this team to be great, but since the top players on Duke's team are headed to the NBA they should be thinking about their futures and we should accept that.

Exactly, I was thinking this the other day. I think one and done’s injuries would be handled differently than a junior’s or senior’s.

[WillJ]

I love this team. I love Zion - he makes me smile. But I would not be too upset with him if he did what Pippen suggests. Sad for me, but not upset with him. All that said, he really seems to love playing for Duke, and he'll never get that back if he "shuts it down.".

[moonpie23]

sadly, for a fan base, Pipp is right on this.......i hate it, but he's right......

[Steven43]

sadly, for a fan base, Pipp is right on this...i hate it, but he's right...

Maybe Zion, Tre, Cam, and RJ — in the interest of not getting injured (or in Tre’s case not getting further injured), protecting their draft status, and acquiring an instant fnancial windfall through endorsements — should collectively quit Duke Basketball before the Virginia game is even played while simultaneously withdrawing from the University. If it’s all just about preserving one’s viability for the NBA and endorsements, why not?

[elvis14]

Just to be clear on my previous comments. I am in no way saying Zion should take the cash out route. I am, however, saying that I can see where it would be a valid and very lucrative option. The main point I was making was that I hadn't really considered the immediacy of the windfall. He could literally have tens of millions of dollars overnight. Do I think his rep would take a hit? Yes. I also think that wouldn't matter a bit about 4 minutes into his first NBA game when he posterizes Harden. It's also why I mentioned in my previous post that he would make a bunch of fun commercials doing unreal dunks and showing his wonderful personality along the way.

As a Duke fan, I hope he doesn't listen to Scottie at all...unless Scottie is going to work with him on that sweet pull up jumper off glass that he killed everyone with.

[Pghdukie]

Only a guess on my part, BUT, I can picture Zion and K shaking hands in Zion's living room. Zion reiterates to K that he wants to win a championship. Again, only a wild bunch on my part.

[Edouble]

I remember a reporter years ago, asking Kobie "do you miss not playing in the NCAA tournament ". Kobie's answer was "EVERYDAY".

Kobe said "Every March" actually, at least in the interview I heard.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

BEAT. ME. TO. IT.
Pippen has no idea what playing at Duke can do for a player...in so many ways.

It's possible that life as a basketball player today at Duke is more enjoyable than life as a player at University of Central Arkansas 35 years ago in the mid 80s.

Having said that, I do understand his perspective, and it is undeniable that Zion could be a top draft pick if he didn't set foot on a court between now and June.

But if your life is nothing but a series of financial decisions, I feel sad for you. Life is much more dynamic than math equations.

Zion seem by all accounts to be a great young man who is highly motivated and has a lot of fun on the court. He is a massive asset to this team, and seems to be genuinely fond of his team mates.

If Zion and a handful of other high profile OAD players were to do something along these lines it would be a game changer. This is different than one prospect skipping a second tier bowl game. I feel it would spell the (overdue) end of the sham of amateur athletics in this particular model.

I don't want to derail this thread into (yet another) discussion of the NCAA, OAD, whether players should be paid, etc - I'm happy to redirect to another thread for that. But Pippen's comments are further evidence that the system is broken.

FYI - University of Central Arkansas is in Conway, Arkansas. Two sporks to anyone who knew that without Googling.

[Matches]

Yeah, but dropping off the Duke team is a blot on his character, and it wil earn the enmity of college hoops fans (except maybe a few Duke haters) that will affect his market value going forward and also make owenrship and teammates wonder about him.

Eh. I doubt it. There would be some backlash. It would be fodder for the talking heads at ESPN for a couple of days. This board would blow up, and the main site would write an article bemoaning the decision and taking a few not-subtle shots at him. But I think most would recognize it as a business decision, and the only people who would really be upset by it would be Duke fans.

Long-term I think it would have zero effect on his marketability, the perception of him, etc. Don’t get me wrong; I’m not advocating for it, but from a purely dispassionate, economic standpoint Pippen’s got a point.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

It's possible that life as a basketball player today at Duke is more enjoyable than life as a player at University of Central Arkansas 35 years ago in the mid 80s.

Having said that, I do understand his perspective, and it is undeniable that Zion could be a top draft pick if he didn't set foot on a court between now and June.

But if your life is nothing but a series of financial decisions, I feel sad for you. Life is much more dynamic than math equations.

Zion seem by all accounts to be a great young man who is highly motivated and has a lot of fun on the court. He is a massive asset to this team, and seems to be genuinely fond of his team mates.

If Zion and a handful of other high profile OAD players were to do something along these lines it would be a game changer. This is different than one prospect skipping a second tier bowl game. I feel it would spell the (overdue) end of the sham of amateur athletics in this particular model.

I don't want to derail this thread into (yet another) discussion of the NCAA, OAD, whether players should be paid, etc - I'm happy to redirect to another thread for that. But Pippen's comments are further evidence that the system is broken.

FYI - University of Central Arkansas is in Conway, Arkansas. Two sporks to anyone who knew that without Googling.

I agree with that, only quibble is that I would say definitely life as a Duke star is way more exciting and enjoyable than at a small college no one cares about. Zion himself has said he feels like he's living in a movie....a dream. Zion is the one who had tears of joy after HIS TEAM beat FSU without him. Zion gave us the Thomas Hill surrender cobra in fact.

As for the nuts and bolts you mentioned, I have no disagreement...and I've thought the same thing that if Zion did this, it would force the hand of the NBA to make some changes I think. Then again, Zion is unique, there has't been a phenom like Zion in HS since LeBron and before that, Coby. Interesting times these....

[devilsince1977]

Maybe Zion, Tre, Cam, and RJ — in the interest of not getting injured (or in Tre’s case not getting further injured), protecting their draft status, and acquiring an instant fnancial windfall through endorsements — should collectively quit Duke Basketball before the Virginia game is even played while simultaneously withdrawing from the University. If it’s all just about preserving one’s viability for the NBA and endorsements, why not?

And Jerome, Guy, and Hunter should do the same for Virginia. They have just about as much to protect.

Heck, we might as well cancel all P5 basketball and spend out evenings watching Campbell vs. Elon.

Oh, no they too might get an injury that could hurt their future careers in RTP.

[MartinNessley]

Purely economic thinking is the absolute worse kind of mindset.

[sagegrouse]

I love this team. I love Zion - he makes me smile. But I would not be too upset with him if he did what Pippen suggests. Sad for me, but not upset with him. All that said, he really seems to love playing for Duke, and he'll never get that back if he "shuts it down.".


sadly, for a fan base, Pipp is right on this...i hate it, but he's right...

Let me ask you guys, does Zion learn and improve by playing and practicing with future NBA players, likely stars, under the tutelage of the one of the greatest coaches ever? What would he lose by doing only individual workouts for six months? A lot, I would suggest.

Zion Williamson at Duke here and now is "must see" basketball, as much as anyone in all of basketball -- college or professional. You can't buy that kind of positive publicity! He's gonna walk away from that, saying, in effect, he cares nothing about his fans and teammates? Really? I mean, REALLY??

What does Zion lose inside his person and in the outside world by, basically, quitting on his team and coaches? Oh, my! What a disastrous move that would be!

It isn't just a spreadsheet calculation, Scottie. I also remember, Mr. Pippin, when with the Knicks in the latter part of your career the final play wasn't drawn up for you. You refused to go into the game, unwilling to serve as a decoy and help your team win. To me, that says a lot about you and your questionable, self-centered advice to our man Zion.

[Indoor66]

If he were to do that, he would create a regret that would haunt him for the rest of his life. Some things money cannot assuage. Ask Kobe.

[Matches]

If he were to do that, he would create a regret that would haunt him for the rest of his life. Some things money cannot assuage. Ask Kobe.

Kobe saying he’s sorry he didn’t get to play in the NCAAT <> Kobe saying he’d make a different decision if he had it to do over.

But just for poops & giggles - what about a guy like Markelle Fultz, whose team wasn’t going to play in the NCAAT?

The first guy to shut it down before the end of the season probably won’t be someone like Zion, whose team has a legit chance to play deep into March. It’ll be a Fultz or a Simmons, who is on a middling or bad team.

[Gorilla]

And Jerome, Guy, and Hunter should do the same for Virginia. They have just about as much to protect.

Heck, we might as well cancel all P5 basketball and spend out evenings watching Campbell vs. Elon.

Oh, no they too might get an injury that could hurt their future careers in RTP.

Not really the same. Zi9n has exceeded everyone's expectations and without a doubt he is the number 1 or 2 pick. Guy or hunter isn't selling out arenas and they arent going to change a team. Zion could sign endorsement deals tomorrow that would put him over 100 million the same cant be said for the other two.

As a fan of course I want zi9n to finish here but looking at it from a pure business stand point i wouldn't be mad if he wanted to stop.

Also lets be honest, the amount of money Zion has made for Duke, ESPN, and other people are insane and he isn't seeing a dime of it.

[Gorilla]

Purely economic thinking is the absolute worse kind of mindset.

Isn't pure economic thinking the way of the world though? Dont teams cut players if they arent receiving an return on their investment?

We could look at it in two ways, Zion could receive an career ending injury and that would be it. All of us on here would just say "Thanks for attending at Duke Zion". Or if he did declare for the draft right now and sign a couple endorsement deals for 50 million. He gets hurt before the draft and his career is over, he at least has 50 million in his account and the opportunity to return to school for his education if he wanted to.

Again I dont want him to stop playing but I do agree with pippen

[House P]

Kobe saying he’s sorry he didn’t get to play in the NCAAT <> Kobe saying he’d make a different decision if he had it to do over.

But just for poops & giggles - what about a guy like Markelle Fultz, whose team wasn’t going to play in the NCAAT?

The first guy to shut it down before the end of the season probably won’t be someone like Zion, whose team has a legit chance to play deep into March. It’ll be a Fultz or a Simmons, who is on a middling or bad team.

I agree with this. What happens if next year's top ranked incoming player, James Wiseman, puts up huge numbers through the end of November (say, >30 ppg, >15 rpg, >4 blocks per game, with >40% shooting percentage beyond the arc and lots of highlight reel plays shown on SportsCenter). However, his Memphis team is 3-5 and Wiseman just sprained his ankle after landing awkwardly following his spectacular game winning dunk over Nassir Little in the 7th place game of the Maui Jim Maui Invitational.

Would anyone be shocked if Wiseman chose to drop out of school, sign a bunch of super-lucrative guaranteed endorsement deals and rehab his ankle while he waits to be the #1 pick in the upcoming draft?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Isn't pure economic thinking the way of the world though?

No, absolutely not, not 100%. It is for some people, in some situations, of course - but no...it's not. Zion has said he's living a dream beyond what he thought...like being in a movie.

Grant Hill, Laettner and some others still point to their days at Duke as the best days of their basketball career. Players from Central Arkansas don't make the same claim.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Does anyone know what type of insurance policy Zion (or others like him) is carrying? I thought that top NCAA players were eligible for injury insurance in case an injury greatly lowered their draft stock. The numbers in this likely aren't near what his current earning potential is, but I think his worst case scenario in the case of an injury is not that bad, so he has a lot less downside to be afraid of.

I found this link on the NCAA web site indicating that max coverage for basketball is $10 million - I assume that if anyone would be eligible for the max it would be Zion. I don't know if this is what players actually use or if there is something else - does anyone know more?

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/insurance/student-athlete-insurance-programs

[gus]

sadly, for a fan base, Pipp is right on this....i hate it, but he's right...

Is he though?

A player will develop significantly more in an NBA environment then the college environment. There's simply no question about that. More money, more focused attention, fewer restrictions on training time, better in practice competition.

Similarly a player will develop significantly better at a school like Duke then he would sitting on the couch and cashing endorsement checks. Zion will be a better player come draft time by finishing the season then he would be if he quit. Every slip in draft position would cost him between $2-5mm in the next 3-4 years.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Does anyone know what type of insurance policy Zion (or others like him) is carrying? I thought that top NCAA players were eligible for injury insurance in case an injury greatly lowered their draft stock. The numbers in this likely aren't near what his current earning potential is, but I think his worst case scenario in the case of an injury is not that bad, so he has a lot less downside to be afraid of.

I found this link on the NCAA web site indicating that max coverage for basketball is $10 million - I assume that if anyone would be eligible for the max it would be Zion. I don't know if this is what players actually use or if there is something else - does anyone know more?

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/insurance/student-athlete-insurance-programs

I was wondering about this too. Obviously, ten million is not close to what the worst case downside risk would be.....but ten million is still life changing money for an 18 year old. And with his personality, in the worst case, he would be so employable in media/basketball related jobs for the rest of his life, and his Duke experience would be part of that. Remember, Jay Bilas is still essentially getting paid for.......being a Duke basketball player under Coach K. Think about it....

[arnie]

I agree with this. What happens if next year's top ranked incoming player, James Wiseman, puts up huge numbers through the end of November (say, >30 ppg, >15 rpg, >4 blocks per game, with >40% shooting percentage beyond the arc and lots of highlight reel plays shown on SportsCenter). However, his Memphis team is 3-5 and Wiseman just sprained his ankle after landing awkwardly following his spectacular game winning dunk over Nassir Little in the 7th place game of the Maui Jim Maui Invitational.

Would anyone be shocked if Wiseman chose to drop out of school, sign a bunch of super-lucrative guaranteed endorsement deals and rehab his ankle while he waits to be the #1 pick in the upcoming draft?

😎. Is Nassir injured on the play? If so, Roy’s got him for the 3rd year.

[Jeffrey]

The main point I was making was that I hadn't really considered the immediacy of the windfall. He could literally have tens of millions of dollars overnight. Do I think his rep would take a hit? Yes.

IMO, Zion will have significantly more endorsement earning potential by playing in March Madness. Most people who watch March Madness watch substantially less basketball than regular DBR posters. I know many people who watch more college basketball in March than the rest of the year combined. It's hard for us to imagine, but many Americans still have not seen Zion play.

[Matches]

Similarly a player will develop significantly better at a school like Duke then he would sitting on the couch and cashing endorsement checks. Zion will be a better player come draft time by finishing the season then he would be if he quit. Every slip in draft position would cost him between $2-5mm in the next 3-4 years.

Do you really think he would slip? I find that pretty hard to imagine. I guess if he spends those months going all Sean May and shows up out of shape for pre-draft workouts? But short of that..

[sagegrouse]

Do you really think he would slip? I find that pretty hard to imagine. I guess if he spends those months going all Sean May and shows up out of shape for pre-draft workouts? But short of that..

After six months of being excoriated by every single college basketball announcer? Yeah, I think the decision would be bad for his future income and maybe his NBA prospects. This is an entertainment business.

And by the way, as one of the card-carrying members of the "dismal science" profession, I don't not think professional sports (or most other industries) are solely a financial calculation.

[oldnavy]

The damage in my opinion would be more to college basketball in general. Would more people lose interest in the game if the OAD became the 1/4 and done? I am hanging on by a thread as it is...

[Matches]

The damage in my opinion would be more to college basketball in general. Would more people lose interest in the game if the OAD became the 1/4 and done? I am hanging on by a thread as it is...

Yea, this is where I’m at. I don’t think leaving now would matter one whit for Zion’s draft position, marketability etc. - but man it would suck for college basketball. Sadly I do think this is coming if the OAD rule doesn’t go away (or maybe even if it does) - it won’t be Zion but it will be someone.

[Wander]

If Zion was going to do this, he should have done it before the season even started. All the same arguments apply – he was going to be a top draft pick no matter what. The fact that he's playing college basketball at all means it's extremely doubtful to happen.

[lotusland]

If Zion was going to do this, he should have done it before the season even started. All the same arguments apply – he was going to be a top draft pick no matter what. The fact that he's playing college basketball at all means it's extremely doubtful to happen.

No Zion’s draft position was projected at 5th coming out of HS. Many of us thought he was mostly a highlight dunker who had not proven himself against tough competition in HS (which was true). He had a lot of Instagram followers but my friends who are not Duke or college basketball fans didn’t know about him but they do now.

[uh_no]

No, absolutely not, not 100%. It is for some people, in some situations, of course - but no...it's not. Zion has said he's living a dream beyond what he thought...like being in a movie.


Spot on. If you're running a public company, every decision must legally be a decision to increase value for shareholders. One shouldn't understand that to preclude decisions which may defer value temporarily if the long term payoff is greater.

From an individual's perspective, though, it turns out happiness is a huge factor....and the age old question comes up.....how do you balance the need to make money to do things that make you happy with spending time to actually do those things? If they could and money wasn't an object, I'm sure there's a class of people that would be happy playing college ball forever. For those guys, when money DOES become a factor, at what point to you start giving up that happiness for money? For grayson, the answer was never. For Luke, it was after his sophomore year. For some, it could feasibly be in the middle of the season.

I can't pretend to know how much it must suck to be forced to make a tradeoff at THAT level of stakes. The closest most of us probably come is leaving a job one enjoys for one worth more money.

It's all just business. So long as you don't start going off like a point guard who played for us last year, I have no problem and wish these guys the best.

[lotusland]

Actually, if reports are to be believed, the owners would be cool with it but it must be collectively bargained and the players (rightly) think that any chance the owners want should also provide something they want. The owners don't want it enough to give up something meaningful to the players so the rule remains the same. Because it is collectively bargained, overturning it in court is quite difficult.

Whatever... we all know the players should be allowed to go to the NBA. We also all know that they do get some tangible benefits in terms of exposure, coaching, and adjujstment to a higher level of the sport from attending college.

Question -- can anyone think of a player who got injured in college and lost a sure-fire pro career because of it? I am sure there are some guys but I am drawing a blank

-Jason "Randy Livingston comes close... but he tore his ACL while playing in a pickup game the summer before arriving at LSU so I don't think that counts" Evans


In football, Marcus Lattimore at SC. Injured his knee his Junior year. He was drafted much lower by San Fran and retired shortly thereafter. I’m not sure he ever played a down. Lattimore was the real deal. He was somewhat injury prone so he probably wouldn’t had a long career but after his sophomore year he would have been one of the first Running backs taken.

[uh_no]

In football, Marcus Lattimore at SC. Injured his knee his Junior year. He was drafted much lower by San Fran and retired shortly thereafter. I’m not sure he ever played a down. Lattimore was the real deal. He was somewhat injury prone so he probably wouldn’t had a long career but after his sophomore year he would have been one of the first Running backs taken.

It's so tenuous in the NFL...if you get cut, tough luck you. So assuming your likelihood of getting injured is the same in college and NFL (probably not exact, but close eonugh...), then in the NFL you're only making the amount of money until you get injured and cut. So if the choice is between:

1) getting injured in final year of college, finishing a degree and not making a cent of NFL money
2) getting injured in first year of NFL, not having a degree and getting 1 year of NFL money

Is the degree worth 1 year of NFL money over a lifetime? Probably depends on the situation. There is also the fact that the years worth of earnings compounded over a lifetime is valuable....shrug.

[gus]

Do you really think he would slip? I find that pretty hard to imagine. I guess if he spends those months going all Sean May and shows up out of shape for pre-draft workouts? But short of that..

I do, but what do I really know? I mean, draft picks don't always make a ton of sense (https://www.complex.com/sports/2013/06/worst-nba-draft-picks-all-time/sam-bowie).

[Gorilla]

Remember Zion said that attending Duke was a business decision

"In the end, this is a business. People dont really care about your feelings. They can always go find somebody else."

https://www.goupstate.com/news/20180121/zion-williamson-says-choosing-duke-was-business-decision

[duke79]

Spot on. If you're running a public company, every decision must legally be a decision to increase value for shareholders. One shouldn't understand that to preclude decisions which may defer value temporarily if the long term payoff is greater.

From an individual's perspective, though, it turns out happiness is a huge factor...and the age old question comes up....how do you balance the need to make money to do things that make you happy with spending time to actually do those things? If they could and money wasn't an object, I'm sure there's a class of people that would be happy playing college ball forever. For those guys, when money DOES become a factor, at what point to you start giving up that happiness for money? For grayson, the answer was never. For Luke, it was after his sophomore year. For some, it could feasibly be in the middle of the season.

I can't pretend to know how much it must suck to be forced to make a tradeoff at THAT level of stakes. The closest most of us probably come is leaving a job one enjoys for one worth more money.

It's all just business. So long as you don't start going off like a point guard who played for us last year, I have no problem and wish these guys the best.

LOL. As someone who has owned publicly-traded stock in many different companies where the CEO and other top executives have put their own financial interests ahead of the shareholders, I dispute this assertion!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

In football, Marcus Lattimore at SC. Injured his knee his Junior year. He was drafted much lower by San Fran and retired shortly thereafter. I’m not sure he ever played a down. Lattimore was the real deal. He was somewhat injury prone so he probably wouldn’t had a long career but after his sophomore year he would have been one of the first Running backs taken.

I believe he suffered another bad injury after college.....

[lotusland]

I believe he suffered another bad injury after college...

No he never made it back. Injured his knee and was out for the season his junior year and went late in the following draft. His football career ended, for all practical purposes, in college.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Lattimore


His sophomore and junior years were truncated by severe knee injuries. He opted to forgo his senior year and was drafted by the San Francisco 49ers in the fourth round of the 2013 NFL Draft. He never played a game for the 49ers and retired from playing football at the age of 23.

https://youtu.be/3Fdi7KXF8yM

[sagegrouse]

And by the way, as one of the card-carrying members of the "dismal science" profession, I don't not think professional sports (or most other industries) are solely a financial calculation.
Double negative was unintended -- should be "I don't think." Thanks to TrippinWill for the tip.

[uh_no]

LOL. As someone who has owned publicly-traded stock in many different companies where the CEO and other top executives have put their own financial interests ahead of the shareholders, I dispute this assertion!

you're legally required to drive below the speed limit as well. Doesn't mean you will be successfully prosecuted for it. The fact that 100 lawsuits are filed any time any stock drops in value makes it that much harder to litigate, since now people associate such lawsuits with the financial equivalent of ambulance chasing.

[Owen Meany]

I really, really like Zion Williamson – the way he plays, his attitude, love of the game, love of teammates, humility, etc. Great kid who hasn't let his talent or the incredible amount of attention he has received go to his head. I look forward to seeing him parlay his gifts into millions of dollars for him and his family, as he should have been allowed to do out of high school.


The argument for ZW to stop playing now has become a proxy for the larger questions of whether players should be paid, allowed to go pro out of high school, etc. There are many people more interested in the bigger picture than what is best for Zion who are making hyperbolic claims.


The risk of a career ending injury is being greatly exaggerated. ACL injuries are, historically, the most feared “career-ending” injuries, but players do well now. Dennis Smith tore his ACL in high school but was still drafted in the top 10. The Nets and Spurs (among others) are prepared to offer Porzingis a fully guaranteed max contract – despite the fact that he has yet to resume basketball activities and his long history of leg injuries.


Gordon Hayward, Paul George and Shaun Livingston suffered the most gruesome basketball injuries in the last decade. Hayward is “getting his groove back (1st google article today)” and agrees his struggles now are mental not physical. Livingston and George both came back and made millions ($137 million for George's last contract). So its very difficult to imagine the injury that would end Zion's career or prevent him from being a very, very wealthy young man.


One article suggested that Zion is risking $1 billion by playing. Here it was mentioned that he could sign $100 million in endorsement deals tomorrow. Last year, Trae Young was the “draft pick all the sneaker companies want”(ESPN) – the next Steph Curry. He signed with Adidas for $1.8 million because “they offered the most”. Puma gave Bagley the “biggest rookie endorsement offer since Durant left Texas”, a 5 year deal that went beyond shoes for $2-$3 million per. Kyrie Irving, World Champion, multiple All-Star, one of the NBA's most popular players, star of game 7 – made $14 million in endorsements last year according to Forbes. Endorsers will likely want to see how Williamson performs in the NBA before offering him the massive sums that are being suggested.


College basketball has benefited greatly from Zion this year – perhaps more than any individual player I can remember in recent years (although Trae Young was certainly hyped and promoted last year). But this benefits Zion also. His value increases with every Sportscenter dunk and every interview. A huge part of his appeal is his infectious personality and the fact that he obviously truly loves the game. And his profile (and value) will likely grow immensely in the NCAA tournament when casual fans fill out brackets and begin to watch games.


I would be very surprised if leaving his team mid-season would have no impact on his appeal and marketability (look at this thread for proof of how Pippen, voted one of the 50 greatest players in NBA history, is still viewed for skipping out on 1.8 seconds of a game). There are many who feel the players should be paid, able to make money off their own likeness, go pro, etc. who would support his decision. But most people don't care, don't see the economics involved and would view it very negatively – fair or not. And when Zion left, someone else would fill the void, appear on the NCAA promos, make the top 10, etc. He would be out of sight out of mind for most people. And when we being weren't wowed by his incredible dunks, nimble footwork and relentless play - questions would begin. What position does he play, is he tall enough to be a 4 (or even 3), will he be able to drive reliably against NBA 5's, how does he fit in a game in which the 3 point shot is so very important?


Zion is riding a huge wave right now – a wave largely of his own creation. He is the best player on the most popular team. He has enormous physical skills and a great personality in a physical form we haven't seen before. He is playing in a game (college basketball) that may be perfectly suited for his unique set of skills and abilities. If I were advising Zion, I would tell him to be cautious – don't dive over the scorer's table, no reckless dunks, no need to jump over someone for a block. Also, wear your seat belt, stay out of trouble, no drinking, – because those things are much more likely to derail you then an on-court injury. But ride this wave as far and high as you can so that you enter the NBA at your most desirable and most marketable.

[lotusland]

If Zion becomes the next Lebron, I don’t think his marketability would even be hurt with Duke fans. We’d be thrilled he played half a year at Duke and was associated with Duke Basketball. If he were seen back on campus or at games occasionally, he’d definite get his brotherhood card.

[Devilwin]

If Zion becomes the next Lebron, I don’t think his marketability would even be hurt with Duke fans. We’d be thrilled he played half a year at Duke and was associated with Duke Basketball. If he were seen back on campus or at games occasionally, he’d definite get his brotherhood card.

If he quits the team before the season is half done, revoke his brotherhood card..Sometimes in life we have to do things we promised to do, regardless...Just my take..:cool:
And Scottie, myob...

[Troublemaker]

Scottie Pippen's "worst advertising victim" entry. Hmmm, it's pretty good (lol - just look at the thumbnail!), but I don't if I would say it's impossible for it to be topped.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40YkCQcMCpQ

[SupaDave]

Strictly speaking economics, Scottie Pippen's advice to Zion could not be worse.
In his short time at Duke, Zion Williamson has built a reputation than no person ever in my fifty plus years of following this team has. I think you'd have to go back to the days of Lew Alcidor(Kareem Abdul Jabbar), if then, to find a college player who has ever received so much media attention.
He has everything sponsors look for. He is a generational player. He works hard, smiles a lot and is one of the most unselfish team players I have ever seen.
I would not be surprised if he gets more endorsement offers coming into the NBA than any player ever.
If he left at this time, a great deal of that would evaporate.
I probably should not be talking about it, because there is zero chance that it will happen.

Just one small quip....

https://www.dailypress.com/sports/allen-iverson/dp-spt-gt-letter-of-intent-20110119-story.html

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1994-12-04-9412040048-story.html

Fittingly, the Answer...

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Just one small quip...

https://www.dailypress.com/sports/allen-iverson/dp-spt-gt-letter-of-intent-20110119-story.html

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1994-12-04-9412040048-story.html

Fittingly, the Answer...

"I mean we talkin about practice man......how silly is that....we talking about practice..." and so on. Had to bring that up.

As for the points about Alcindor and Iverson....those eras can't compete with the social media age we live in now. Zion came to Duke with his own national fan base. Alcindor nor Iverson did, even as they might have in the social media age.

[Steven43]

No he never made it back. Injured his knee and was out for the season his junior year and went late in the following draft. His football career ended, for all practical purposes, in college.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Lattimore



https://youtu.be/3Fdi7KXF8yM

That’s why these athletes should look beyond athletics and actually study and do well in their classes, get a degree, and live a self-sufficient life with no regrets.

[lotusland]

That’s why these athletes should look beyond athletics and actually study and do well in their classes, get a degree, and live a self-sufficient life with no regrets.

Lattimore did graduate and is Director of Player Personel for the Gamecocks now. Also:


Lattimore may not leave his aborted NFL career empty-handed.

In addition to the signing bonus, he’s filed a claim on a $1.7 million disability insurance policy. This policy, purchased by Lattimore while a junior at South Carolina, reportedly allows him to collect if he fails to appear in at least four NFL games. The NCAA and private insurers make such policies available to football, basketball, baseball and ice hockey players to hedge against the risk of a career-ending injury while still in college.

The NCAA-backed policy is offered to any college football player projected to go in at least the first three rounds of the next NFL Draft. The policy may cover a period of up to two years, and offers a one-time payout of up to $5 million in the event of “permanent total disability,” meaning the player is “unable to engage in sporting activity at the professional level.”

Such policies are expensive. Lattimore reportedly paid upwards of $15,000 in premiums for his $1.7 million in coverage. Players can borrow the money to pay for the premiums. The loan must then be repaid after the player signs a professional contract or receives benefits under the policy.

If Lattimore does collect on his policy, he may be just the second former SEC player to ever do so. Kevin Fixler, writing for The Atlantic last year, said former Florida defensive tackle Ed Chester was the first college player “publicly known to have benefited” from this type of insurance policy. Chester reportedly collected $1 million (on a policy costing $8,000) after suffering a knee injury during his senior season.

Like Chester, Lattimore is believed to have purchased his policy from a private company not affiliated with the NCAA. Neither the NCAA nor its members publicly discuss who has purchased insurance or who may be collecting benefits.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/south-carolina-football/lattimore-set-financially-despite-early-retirement/

[Gorilla]

Zion Williamson on Scottie Pippen's comments: "I can't just stop playing. I'd be letting my teammates down, I'd be letting Coach K down, I'd be letting a lot of people down. If I wanted to sit out, I wouldn't have went to college. I came to Duke to play."

[plimnko]

Zion Williamson on Scottie Pippen's comments: "I can't just stop playing. I'd be letting my teammates down, I'd be letting Coach K down, I'd be letting a lot of people down. If I wanted to sit out, I wouldn't have went to college. I came to Duke to play."

watching him play......quitting is NOT in his DNA

[HereBeforeCoachK]

watching him play...quitting is NOT in his DNA

Right.....and if he plays 20 years in the NBA, he'll never play in atmosphere's like the one yesterday, and the one at FSU a week ago......and like he'll see 4-5 times more this season at least. He clearly loves that.

[WillJ]

Zion Williamson on Scottie Pippen's comments: "I can't just stop playing. I'd be letting my teammates down, I'd be letting Coach K down, I'd be letting a lot of people down. If I wanted to sit out, I wouldn't have went to college. I came to Duke to play."

This is exactly right, and also, FWIW, the point that Stephen A Smith made (obligatory broken clock comment redacted). Zion seems more wise than Pippen, which is not hard. Still, if he did do it, I'd still love Zion.

[kAzE]

Now Pippen is "advising" Dennis Smith Jr. to refuse to play for the Mavs because it came out that he was being shopped around in trades. OF COURSE HE'S BEING OFFERED IN TRADES. He's a bad fit with Luka. It's painfully obvious to everyone with functional eyes. You're doing a bad job if you're the Mavs front office and you're NOT trying to trade him.

How is Dennis Smith supposed to get his if he's a team cancer and doesn't showcase his skills? I would argue it's actually in Dennis Smith's best interest to get traded. He's clearly not ever going to be the #1 ball handler that he wants to be with Luka Doncic on the roster.

Of course Pippen's solution to everything is to just quit on your team. What a clown. Great player, but if MJ didn't carry him to 6 titles, he'd be almost irrelevant right now.