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wojcol
10-31-2007, 11:44 PM
http://I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this..com/news_view.php?art_id=744

DukeBlood
11-01-2007, 12:01 AM
Elliot Williams commits to Duke.


http://I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this..com/news_view.php?art_id=744


I hope this stands true.

VaDukie
11-01-2007, 12:06 AM
Its all over scout.com, WE GOT HIM!

shadowfax336
11-01-2007, 12:10 AM
Thats exciting.
So we've got a solid 2 man class in a weaker year, with one guy who's projected to be a role player (and lots of teams would take top 100 "role players") and a guy who has the talent to be a solid rotation player. That works out not bad at all.

prefan21
11-01-2007, 12:15 AM
Welcome to the Gothic Wonderland, mister Williams. :cool:

It's been good to quite a few ballers named Williams before you.

Wander
11-01-2007, 12:17 AM
Our recruiting is a disaster!

DukeBlood
11-01-2007, 12:19 AM
Good! I wasnt sure if i really believe that article at first. But scout.com usually doesnt post unless they are 100%.

Elliot Williams will replace Demarcus very nicely. Wont step in and take over, but has potential to.

I wonder if this effects any of the '09 guards we have been looking at? I hope not because some of them are already as good as Williams, If not better.. And that is not meant as offense to Williams

wojcol
11-01-2007, 12:30 AM
Good! I wasnt sure if i really believe that article at first. But scout.com usually doesnt post unless they are 100%.

Scout didn't break this story, I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this..com did. Lets give credit where credit is due here.

Jumbo
11-01-2007, 12:39 AM
Good! I wasnt sure if i really believe that article at first. But scout.com usually doesnt post unless they are 100%.

-----------------------------------------------
Scout didn't break this story, I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this..com did. Lets give credit where credit is due here.

If someone really needs credit for breaking a story on where a high school kid will attend college ... well, never mind.

SilkyJ
11-01-2007, 12:40 AM
http://I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this..com/news_view.php?art_id=744

someone pleeeease confirm...

SilkyJ
11-01-2007, 12:47 AM
If someone really needs credit for breaking a story on where a high school kid will attend college ... well, never mind.

zing.

Glad to have him on board. I dont think this really affects us with regard to boynton, since he is more a scoring point a la jwill, while williams is more of a pure college SG, right?

Troublemaker
11-01-2007, 12:51 AM
This is a nice surprise for sure. Usually I assume kids go with the in-state schools if they are viable options and the Tenn / Memphis tag-team struck me as duanting. Great news. Like I said, getting Elliot in the truck takes a little bit of pressure off the '09 class. For example, we might be able to spend a little less time recruiting McDonald and a little more time recruiting the bigs everyone wants.

devilirium
11-01-2007, 01:04 AM
It's true. But don't think they broke it. Watzone has been dropping hints of his lean for weeks and told me yesterday.

devilirium
11-01-2007, 01:07 AM
Give it a break wojcol, everyone knows you are Wayne Gooch trying to pump his site. Credit? This was no secret to some in the know. Watzone dropped hints for weeks. Where are your quotes? I was told of his decision yesterday by someone who obviously knew, but I thought recruits should be allowed to announce it on their own without [someone] trying to get the so called scoop.

dukemomLA
11-01-2007, 01:39 AM
Wasn't sure this would happen -- thought E. Williams might have made the wrong choice! Welcome to Duke, Cameron and the crazies. And to the best education you could have ever hoped for!!

Welcome Elliot. We're so pleased to have you aboard! You'll be glad you made the right decision.

VaDukie
11-01-2007, 02:20 AM
It's been two hours since I read it online and I'm still buzzing. Can't wait to see what the boards look like when everyone wakes up to the good news!

feldspar
11-01-2007, 02:21 AM
I'm glad Williams chose Duke, cause had he not, he wouldn't have been a good fit for us.

Welcome!!

DBFAN
11-01-2007, 02:31 AM
Saw we got Williams, that is so Awesome, I take back any negative things I might have said in the past, you have to forgive me I am only human. We could be looking at the start of something big at Duke, it will take a year or two to show but the future is looking bright.:cool:

BillVol
11-01-2007, 03:12 AM
Happy for Duke that you got a commit from EW. I'm sure he is glad to finally have this weight off his shoulders.

feldspar
11-01-2007, 03:14 AM
Happy for Duke that you got a commit from EW. I'm sure he is glad to finally have this weight off his shoulders.

Welcome, BillVol. Always good to have opposing fans around.

You guys fought hard for EW, but we'll take him. :D

Personally, I'm rooting for a few good years of Tennessee dominance in the SEC for a change...

Capn Poptart
11-01-2007, 07:02 AM
We've got E-MAIL! Welcome to the Methodist Flats!

I can't wait to watch this kid in action...

(And the reaction at thesabre.com boards (http://www.thesabre.com/message_board/basketball/) seems to be utter disbelief.)

bluedev_92
11-01-2007, 08:59 AM
I'm sure there's a long-winded poster out there somewhere just waiting to tell us why this is a bad thing...:rolleyes:

JasonEvans
11-01-2007, 09:12 AM
I want to hear from the rumor-spreaders who posted all that stuff** about Johnny Dawkins being arrogant and ruining the visit with EW and how it had also doomed our chances with Leslie McDonald. No matter what EW had decided that junk was clearly untrue and now it just look idiotic.

Yup, enjoying a little bit of Schadenfreude right now.

--Jason "maybe Bruce Pearl isn't the 2nd coming :D " Evans

**- deleted from this board because we don't tollerate rumors, but it was all over the net elsewhere

whereinthehellami
11-01-2007, 09:23 AM
Here is the Youtube video of Elliot Williams (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQNv_7IiqXk) for anyone who has not seen it. Its obviously a highlight video and the compettition wasn't the best but there are some things that can be gleaned from the video.

Elliot is an explosive athlete. He is quick and long for 6-4. Has good hops but more importantly quick hops, fires off the ground. Combine that quickness and length with what looked like good anticipation and he should excel in the Duke defensive system.

Elliot dribbles very well in the open court at full speed. He had good spacing and attacked the basket at good angles. There were some clips of him putting the defender on his hip and changing directions, crossing up the defender.

Elliot has an unorthodox jumper though he seems able to get it off. His shoulders are not square to the basket. He is able to get into his jumpshot quickly and has good elevation. I'd be curious to know what his 3 PT% was last year.

He definately looks like a gamer though. All in all a great day for Duke and the Williams.

watzone
11-01-2007, 09:44 AM
Well, I am happy for sure. Nobody really knew for sure what he would do, but Duke was near the top or the slight leader all along. Still, I do think it would be nice for the kid to announce it himself. I guess I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. was the first to mention it publicly, so I am assuming they got it from someone who said it was okay to run with it. Anyhow, once it is out, it's out.

I told my members that the Dawkins stuff was complete hogwash. Doesn't following recruiting make you feel as if you need a shower every now and then?

I still want to see Elliot announcing at his press conference and I do feel thats the way everyone should have found out.

SilkyJ
11-01-2007, 09:58 AM
I'm sure there's a long-winded poster out there somewhere just waiting to tell us why this is a bad thing...:rolleyes:

Patrick is still asleep....;)


I want to hear from the rumor-spreaders who posted all that stuff** about Johnny Dawkins being arrogant and ruining the visit with EW

**- deleted from this board because we don't tollerate rumors, but it was all over the net elsewhere

Well it WAS a Vol poster so...

Also, when you say "but it was all over the net elsewhere" are you saying that this was reported in other places as well? If it was only on other boards then whatever, but was this ever reported officially anywhere? Based on wat's comments I would assume no...



I told my members that the Dawkins stuff was complete hogwash. Doesn't following recruiting make you feel as if you need a shower every now and then?


Wat - anything non-premium you can share w/ regards to how this affects us at a macro/micro level for '09?

RepoMan
11-01-2007, 10:08 AM
We could be looking at the start of something big at Duke

what in the world

VaDukie
11-01-2007, 10:12 AM
We've got E-MAIL! Welcome to the Methodist Flats!

I can't wait to watch this kid in action...

(And the reaction at thesabre.com boards (http://www.thesabre.com/message_board/basketball/) seems to be utter disbelief.)

I'm having more fun than I should reading those posts.

JasonEvans
11-01-2007, 10:15 AM
Also, when you say "but it was all over the net elsewhere" are you saying that this was reported in other places as well? If it was only on other boards then whatever, but was this ever reported officially anywhere? Based on wat's comments I would assume no...


It was all over bulletin boards on the net. It was certainly not reported in any mainstream media or even by Scout/Rivals to the best of my knowledge. It was resally just one Memphis guy who reported it and it spread from there to UVA, Tenn, and a few other bulletin boards as far as I can tell.

-Jason "I need a life ;) " Evans

ehdg
11-01-2007, 10:16 AM
I'm having more fun than I should reading those posts.

Weirdest post response I read was have fun at Rutger's South. Geez when and how did we get compared to Rutgers which first off is a state school. Those folks aren't the swiftest based on their ramblings!!

Anyways welcome to Duke EW!! Looks like things are really going to continue nicely for the next few years for us!!

JasonEvans
11-01-2007, 10:18 AM
By the way, the news is now in the Memphis papers (http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2007/nov/01/st-georges-star-picks-duke/) and it includes quotes from EW's high school coach. Seems pretty close to official.

-Jason "welcome, EW, the competition on the wing here will make you a much better player in the long run" Evans

watzone
11-01-2007, 10:39 AM
Elliot called Coach K with the news last evening. He is okay that it is out and glad the process is over.

sagegrouse
11-01-2007, 10:53 AM
Weirdest post response I read was have fun at Rutger's South. Geez when and how did we get compared to Rutgers which first off is a state school. Those folks aren't the swiftest based on their ramblings!!

Anyways welcome to Duke EW!! Looks like things are really going to continue nicely for the next few years for us!!

Moreover, Rutgers resembles U of Md in a number of ways. What most comes to mind is the RU students' disgraceful treatment of the Naval Academy during the recent football game, which resulted in a formal apology from the RU President: (http://www.uscho.com/collegesports/administration/uid,MAFG091220072237471/RutgersApologizesToNavyForFootballFansObscenities. html).
Or better, Google "Rutgers Navy football fans."

sagegrouse

Patrick Yates
11-01-2007, 10:57 AM
My house is being remodeled, specifically the room where my computer is, making it hard for me to check the net once I get home. Once I saw, I waited for a national site to confirm, before posting with my concession (and long) post.

I was wrong about the Williams decision. I thought UT was a legitimate choice for the kid, but they may be getting less attractive. There is a lot of buzz over Tyler Smith and the PG Ramar Smith. I would not be surprised if both left (losing 1 is almost a given), leaving UT more talent deprived than I had originally thought (and Williams playing out of position at the PG). Also, that Arizona recruit may have given Williams pause. He must have seen something at the practices (both Duke and UT) that he liked and disliked. I bet he saw something out of Henderson that led him to believe that Hendo may not be arround for long, no more than next year at most, if that long. My feelings on UVA's (non-existant) chances are well documented, and he only included Memphis and gave them a visit to keep the local media off his back. I bet he took a three day shower after getting away from Calipari.

Getting a recruit is never a bad thing. Williams will be a great addition to Duke for four years. Towards the end of his career, he has a chance to be a all-conference type perfomer. His junior year, with him and Nolan Smith starting in the back court, Duke has a chance to be more athletic, skilled, and experienced in the backcourt than we have been in almost a decade (excepting the years where J-Will and C-du were running together, and Smith/Williams might be able to give them a run for their money).

The best part about this is that Duke can finally stop recruiting guards next year. Obviously, I do not know the staff's predilictions for next year's class, but the Williams commit pretty much ends the Leslie McDonald committment as they are very similiar players.

Our remaining backcourt targets were Boynton and Hood. Boynton is a great kid, who will be a great fit anywhere. That said, a lot of people think that Donovan and Florida will be tough to beat for the Kid. Duke was/is right up there, but Florida will be tough to beat. They are really prioritizing the kid, and the Florida media will be pushing the Gators on him for the next two years.

As for Hood, he is a Kentucky born player, and Gillespie and Pitino will soon lock up that state. Duke will have a chance with him, but, again, he will be a tough recruit.

I firmly expect Duke to continue recruiting one or both (probably focus on Boynton, better chance, better fit), but neither one is a "must get" now. Thankfully, Duke can look toward the 2010 class for a PG, (cause I assume Williams's commitment means that he has a strong belief that Smith will focus on PG more than SG), which is great cause the 2010 class is loaded with Stud PGs who can take over when Smith graduates/ leaves after his Jr (and possible NC) year (unlikely, but possible if he really develops). I really do not see a quality, true PG out of the 09 class, at least not one that is a Duke kind of Guy. Boynton is more of a lead guard in the J-Will mold, but I will have to see it to believe that Boynton is in the J-Will mold of athlete/competitor. J-Will was a special player, and it is not likely that Boynton is a carbon copy, or, even an approximation of a kid that had his jersey retired.

Now the staff can focus, almost exclusively if they so wish, on getting a true big man. Personally, I do not beleive that the staff has fully evaluated the bigs in the class, and that we will emerge as a leader for one of the truly elite bigs, as well as a more long-term type of big, any week now (especially if our play indicates a need for a big once the season starts). Also, in addition to a big, the staff can focus on getting a mid size, highly athletic swing forward to replace Hendo, who probably won't still be on campus when the 09 HS class recruits arrive on campus.

I don't know who the above bigs and swings will be, but Duke can really go after them. Getting Hood and or Boynton would have required a tremendous amount of man hours by the staff. Not that the staff will abandon their recruitment, but neither player falls under the must get, and can be recruited as such. The 09-10 season will feature a backcourt with Smith, Williams, and a Sr Scheyer (I really doubt that Hendo will still be in Durham by this point). That is a great Backcourt even with no other additions given that all three are/will be capable of playing either backcourt position. The addition of a few stud bigs from the 09 class will make Duke a preseason top 5, even without Singler or Hendo, should they both be gone.

A good day for Duke, no doubt.

Patrick Yates

ps. As an aside, I would like to call out all the nay-sayers who ripped me, and others, for posting less than fawning posts regarding Duke's recruiting of Williams. It was directly stated to me by well-meaning "shut your pie-hole before you scare off recruits" people that my allegedly negative posts would scare off Williams, and or other recruits. That has obviously not proven to be the case. Let's face it, if some kid is going to not come to Duke because of something posted by a delusional paranoid yahoo (doctors tell me there are meds that can fix this, but I REALLY hate cotton mouth, and anyway, the entire medical profession is totally plotting against me anyway) on a bulletin board, well, that kid wouldn't have come to Duke in the first place, and he certainly would not have survived the harsh limelight Duke exists in.

monkey
11-01-2007, 11:51 AM
Awesome.

Welcome to Duke Elliot!

watzone
11-01-2007, 12:00 PM
My house is being remodeled, specifically the room where my computer is, making it hard for me to check the net once I get home. Once I saw, I waited for a national site to confirm, before posting with my concession (and long) post.

I was wrong about the Williams decision. I thought UT was a legitimate choice for the kid, but they may be getting less attractive. There is a lot of buzz over Tyler Smith and the PG Ramar Smith. I would not be surprised if both left (losing 1 is almost a given), leaving UT more talent deprived than I had originally thought (and Williams playing out of position at the PG). Also, that Arizona recruit may have given Williams pause. He must have seen something at the practices (both Duke and UT) that he liked and disliked. I bet he saw something out of Henderson that led him to believe that Hendo may not be arround for long, no more than next year at most, if that long. My feelings on UVA's (non-existant) chances are well documented, and he only included Memphis and gave them a visit to keep the local media off his back. I bet he took a three day shower after getting away from Calipari.

Getting a recruit is never a bad thing. Williams will be a great addition to Duke for four years. Towards the end of his career, he has a chance to be a all-conference type perfomer. His junior year, with him and Nolan Smith starting in the back court, Duke has a chance to be more athletic, skilled, and experienced in the backcourt than we have been in almost a decade (excepting the years where J-Will and C-du were running together, and Smith/Williams might be able to give them a run for their money).

The best part about this is that Duke can finally stop recruiting guards next year. Obviously, I do not know the staff's predilictions for next year's class, but the Williams commit pretty much ends the Leslie McDonald committment as they are very similiar players.

Our remaining backcourt targets were Boynton and Hood. Boynton is a great kid, who will be a great fit anywhere. That said, a lot of people think that Donovan and Florida will be tough to beat for the Kid. Duke was/is right up there, but Florida will be tough to beat. They are really prioritizing the kid, and the Florida media will be pushing the Gators on him for the next two years.

As for Hood, he is a Kentucky born player, and Gillespie and Pitino will soon lock up that state. Duke will have a chance with him, but, again, he will be a tough recruit.

I firmly expect Duke to continue recruiting one or both (probably focus on Boynton, better chance, better fit), but neither one is a "must get" now. Thankfully, Duke can look toward the 2010 class for a PG, (cause I assume Williams's commitment means that he has a strong belief that Smith will focus on PG more than SG), which is great cause the 2010 class is loaded with Stud PGs who can take over when Smith graduates/ leaves after his Jr (and possible NC) year (unlikely, but possible if he really develops). I really do not see a quality, true PG out of the 09 class, at least not one that is a Duke kind of Guy. Boynton is more of a lead guard in the J-Will mold, but I will have to see it to believe that Boynton is in the J-Will mold of athlete/competitor. J-Will was a special player, and it is not likely that Boynton is a carbon copy, or, even an approximation of a kid that had his jersey retired.

Now the staff can focus, almost exclusively if they so wish, on getting a true big man. Personally, I do not beleive that the staff has fully evaluated the bigs in the class, and that we will emerge as a leader for one of the truly elite bigs, as well as a more long-term type of big, any week now (especially if our play indicates a need for a big once the season starts). Also, in addition to a big, the staff can focus on getting a mid size, highly athletic swing forward to replace Hendo, who probably won't still be on campus when the 09 HS class recruits arrive on campus.

I don't know who the above bigs and swings will be, but Duke can really go after them. Getting Hood and or Boynton would have required a tremendous amount of man hours by the staff. Not that the staff will abandon their recruitment, but neither player falls under the must get, and can be recruited as such. The 09-10 season will feature a backcourt with Smith, Williams, and a Sr Scheyer (I really doubt that Hendo will still be in Durham by this point). That is a great Backcourt even with no other additions given that all three are/will be capable of playing either backcourt position. The addition of a few stud bigs from the 09 class will make Duke a preseason top 5, even without Singler or Hendo, should they both be gone.

A good day for Duke, no doubt.

Patrick Yates

ps. As an aside, I would like to call out all the nay-sayers who ripped me, and others, for posting less than fawning posts regarding Duke's recruiting of Williams. It was directly stated to me by well-meaning "shut your pie-hole before you scare off recruits" people that my allegedly negative posts would scare off Williams, and or other recruits. That has obviously not proven to be the case. Let's face it, if some kid is going to not come to Duke because of something posted by a delusional paranoid yahoo (doctors tell me there are meds that can fix this, but I REALLY hate cotton mouth, and anyway, the entire medical profession is totally plotting against me anyway) on a bulletin board, well, that kid wouldn't have come to Duke in the first place, and he certainly would not have survived the harsh limelight Duke exists in.


Man! That's a lot of wind behind the sail;) Your aside is longer than the average persons post.

Wander
11-01-2007, 12:10 PM
I was wrong about the Williams decision. I thought UT was a legitimate choice for the kid, but they may be getting less attractive. There is a lot of buzz over Tyler Smith and the PG Ramar Smith. I would not be surprised if both left (losing 1 is almost a given), leaving UT more talent deprived than I had originally thought (and Williams playing out of position at the PG). Also, that Arizona recruit may have given Williams pause. He must have seen something at the practices (both Duke and UT) that he liked and disliked. I bet he saw something out of Henderson that led him to believe that Hendo may not be arround for long, no more than next year at most, if that long. My feelings on UVA's (non-existant) chances are well documented, and he only included Memphis and gave them a visit to keep the local media off his back. I bet he took a three day shower after getting away from Calipari.


You're managed to jump to more conclusions in this one paragraph than everyone else combined over the entire recruiting process. Impressive.

Troublemaker
11-01-2007, 12:10 PM
I don't know who the above bigs and swings will be, but Duke can really go after them. Getting Hood and or Boynton would have required a tremendous amount of man hours by the staff. Not that the staff will abandon their recruitment, but neither player falls under the must get, and can be recruited as such. The 09-10 season will feature a backcourt with Smith, Williams, and a Sr Scheyer (I really doubt that Hendo will still be in Durham by this point). That is a great Backcourt even with no other additions given that all three are/will be capable of playing either backcourt position.

There'd be no bench, brother. Duke will definitely need a guard from the '09 class. No one guard is a "must get", but A guard is a must get. It's certainly getting to be weird to look so far ahead with THIS season about to start, and I've said this before, but if you project the 09-10 team without Henderson and Singler, this would be the entire roster:

Jr Smith
Sr Scheyer
So Ewill
Jr King............So Czyz
Sr Thomas.......Sr Zoubek

Duke will need a guard from the '09 class, maybe two.

BillVol
11-01-2007, 12:30 PM
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?S=7&F=1398#s=7&f=1398

Thanks for the welcome. I've posted here a handful of times but not much lately. I guess it's been a while, because I had to re-register. You all are welcome on our board, too. We had a mini-meltdown last night, but looks like everybody slept it off.

Johnny B
11-01-2007, 12:30 PM
Our recruiting is a disaster!


Yes, clearly Coach K and the other coaches have lost their way recruiting. Let's march on Cameron.

Cameron
11-01-2007, 12:57 PM
What a an absolute brilliant way to start off the season:) Thank you, Elliot.

Jon Scheyer. Nolan Smith. Greg Paulus. Taylor King. Kyle Singler. Elliot Williams.

How's that for Murderers Row, Duke edition? That's worth, say, an easy 10, 11 triples a contest? National record to be re-broken, perhaps?:) Here Comes Duke!!!

mapei
11-01-2007, 01:09 PM
Love the athleticism and aggression in that highlight video! Sure looks like he travels a lot on some of those drives; if I'm right about that, it probably can be fixed.

jimsumner
11-01-2007, 01:28 PM
BillVol,

Are the Vols still in it for Evans? He would make a nice consolation prize.

SilkyJ
11-01-2007, 02:17 PM
You're managed to jump to more conclusions in this one paragraph than everyone else combined over the entire recruiting process. Impressive.

The one I would disagree with most is that there are no must-get guards from the '09 class. Troublemaker's post below is a good counter.

The only thing I would add is that while we don't "need" Boynton b/c we have capable players in his positions, he is a game-changer and the type of player that pushes you over the hump from really good to great. I hope we snag him, and at least 1 C and 1 PF in '09.


There'd be no bench, brother. Duke will definitely need a guard from the '09 class. No one guard is a "must get", but A guard is a must get. It's certainly getting to be weird to look so far ahead with THIS season about to start, and I've said this before, but if you project the 09-10 team without Henderson and Singler, this would be the entire roster:

Jr Smith
Sr Scheyer
So Ewill
Jr King............So Czyz
Sr Thomas.......Sr Zoubek

Duke will need a guard from the '09 class, maybe two.

Got_Duke
11-01-2007, 02:20 PM
i am eating my words........ and excited as all get out that we got him

Don't be surprised if he actually DOES step in and take over..... you guys are fooling yourselves if you do not believe he will compete for a starting position... go check him out on YouTube. With his athleticism and size alone, he IMO will start IN PLACE of Nelson. The only thing that MAY stop him is the experience of the others by the start of the 2008/09 season.

Hence, the 2008-2009 Duke Sqaud:

Elliot Williams
Greg Paulus
Nolan Smith
Gerald Henderson
Jon Scheyer
Lance Thomas
Brian Zoubek
Kyle Sinlger
Taylor King
Marty Pocius (if he doesnt transfer)
(benchy 1)
(benchy 2)

Patrick Yates
11-01-2007, 02:32 PM
Yes, clearly Coach K and the other coaches have lost their way recruiting. Let's march on Cameron.

Getting Williams, while a good thing for Duke, is not a clear symbol that all is well with Duke recruiting.

Those of us who have questioned the recruiting prowess never pointed to Williams as a must get bell weather of the recruiting program. Guards we got, out the Wazoo. K has never had a problem reeling in the guards he wants (not every single one, but nobody's perfect). Those of us who had a problem with the recruiting were more concerned with our recruiting of Bigs.

That hasn't changed, one iota.

For better or worse, Williams may not play a huge role next year. At worst, Paulus, Smith, Scheyer and Pocius are guards next year. Paulus and Scheyer would definitely start, with Smith capable of spelling either player, and Pocius being a definite option for quality minutes at SG. Even if some emergency situation forced Pocius to play major minutes, I am not that worried, I feel he could handle a big role, even this year. Williams will have to be very good to displace one of the top 3 for significant minutes, and a senior Pocius may be in line for big minutes as well. Williams is a great pickup in that he stabilizes our backcourt rotation going forward. He will be vital in 09-10 and beyond, but next year he will have to scrap for minutes. Should Hendo stick arround, Williams will have to be really good to get some quality PT. That is just reality.

Our big target this year was Monroe. And despite what anyone on this board thinks, that was a big miss. Most other recruiting sites are unanimous on this. It borders on disasterous, not because of the miss itself, but because it occured with a life-long Duke fan not even taking a visit, ostensibly because he felt Georgetown would develop him better. By extension, this means that he was less assured of Duke's ability to develop him as a big man, opting instead to head to a program that currently has a solid (at absolute worst) front-court rotation already in place when he arrives next year, as opposed to Duke where mega minutes and shots were just waiting for him.

We may not like it, but that is an indictment of our ability to sell Duke to big men. I won't believe "all is well" with Duke recruiting until we corral a stud big man. The guard rotation is set. To get back to being Duke we need a low post star. There isn't one here now, and there isn't one coming in next year.

Also, when I talked earlier about Boynton and Hood not being "must gets" I did not state my point well. While I believe that a rotation of Smith, Scheyer, and Williams (09-10) is all we need (at least comparable to UNC's Frasor, Lawson, Ellington, or even Duke's Williams, Duhon, Nate Dog or Wojo, Trajan, and Avery troika's), Duke could certainly use another guard if only for depth. I believe that Boynton and Hood are hard gets even if Duke has a huge need for the players. Florida is all over Boynton, and KY will be all over Hood. We might not get either one even if we go after them, hard. My point was that now we don't need to.

We do need a good post player. Not want, need. The staff can focus on this now.

Patrick Yates

ps. Am I supposed to be short and sweet? "Duke is great and this means everything is hunky-dorey." I don't believe that, and I stated the reasoning behind my thinking. There are still big questions going forward. I copped to being wrong, without hiding behind an anonymous sobriquet, two things almost no one else arround here is willing to do.

micah75
11-01-2007, 02:59 PM
Hence, the 2008-2009 Duke Sqaud:

Elliot Williams
Greg Paulus
Nolan Smith
Gerald Henderson
Jon Scheyer
Lance Thomas
Brian Zoubek
Kyle Sinlger
Taylor King
Marty Pocius (if he doesnt transfer)
(benchy 1)
(benchy 2)

Isn't Olek Czyz due to arrive along with E. Williams in '08? He's a 6'7" 235 lb forward who can leap. Averaged 19 ppg and 8 rpg as a Junior last season. Some describe him as "raw", but I see him contributing as needed up front, perhaps being a banger and a glue type his first couple of seasons. If nothing else, we won't be lacking for big men.

grc5
11-01-2007, 03:11 PM
Weirdest post response I read was have fun at Rutger's South. Geez when and how did we get compared to Rutgers which first off is a state school. Those folks aren't the swiftest based on their ramblings!!

Anyways welcome to Duke EW!! Looks like things are really going to continue nicely for the next few years for us!!

The Rutgers South comment is a common one from haters from the Soufern states. Apparently, the high proption of transplanted Yankees (specifically Jerseites) in Duke's student body is an affront to Southern Pride.
Of course, I don't blame them: I would be jealous if my crummy school wasn't capable of attracting a diverse student body :D

jimsumner
11-01-2007, 03:11 PM
"a life-long Duke fan not even taking a visit, ostensibly because he felt Georgetown would develop him better."

Given my druthers, I'd druther have Monroe than not. But its a thin line between "Georgetown can develop me better" and "Georgetown will let me shoot as much as I want in my one-year NBA audition," and based on lots of sources, I'm not sure which side of that line Monroe is on.

captmojo
11-01-2007, 03:19 PM
Based on the upcoming lineup, I can vision a defense playing, bunch of run and gunners, a la Paul Westhead speed ball, but as I said before defense playing.

If this turns out to be the case, the world should beware. I can only be sorry certain tarhole players won't be around anymore to be firsthand victims.

BillVol
11-01-2007, 03:28 PM
BillVol,

Are the Vols still in it for Evans? He would make a nice consolation prize.

I asked about that on our board, since I don't follow recruiting that closely anymore, and was told that Memphis is the leader for Evans but that Tennessee is not involved.

Troublemaker
11-01-2007, 03:36 PM
Also, when I talked earlier about Boynton and Hood not being "must gets" I did not state my point well. While I believe that a rotation of Smith, Scheyer, and Williams (09-10) is all we need (at least comparable to UNC's Frasor, Lawson, Ellington, or even Duke's Williams, Duhon, Nate Dog or Wojo, Trajan, and Avery troika's), Duke could certainly use another guard if only for depth. I believe that Boynton and Hood are hard gets even if Duke has a huge need for the players. Florida is all over Boynton, and KY will be all over Hood. We might not get either one even if we go after them, hard. My point was that now we don't need to.

We do need a good post player. Not want, need. The staff can focus on this now.

I'm telling you, man. All you have to do is look at the 09-10 roster, see that we only have 3 guards total (assuming Henderson is gone) and literally zero guard depth because all 3 project to start, and it's easy to conclude that we NEED a guard from the '09 class as much as a post player.

My gut feeling is that the '09 class will end up being a 4-man class of guard, guard, versatile wing, big, or at the very least a 3-man class of guard, versatile wing, big. I have a feeling that the coaching staff would be perfectly satisfied with an 09-10 roster consisting of big men Srs Thomas and Zoubek, Jr King, So Czyz, and ONE frosh big man. We are not going to go all-out for big men in the '09 class. I think we're going to get ONE big man, not two, and I think that one guy will not be "top 10" or whatever. That's my prediction.

AKG
11-01-2007, 03:44 PM
I hate to call you out, Patrick, but I really can't relate to this "the sky is falling" interpretation of our recent recruiting. I feel like your post is essentially assumptions built on assumptions. For starters, none of us (not even K), knows what role E.W. will play on the team next year. He could play 5 minutes per game or he could play 25. He could average 17 points a game or he could average less than 2. This is the nature of college recruiting. And while you're right that Scheyer, Paulus, and Smith will play significant minutes, who is to say that we can't play three guards? or four? This is especially true if E.W. is a legit 6'4. 6'4 with explosive leaping ability and great defense sounds like a pretty good option for a 3 in Duke's system. The small ball experiment might be a huge success...Maybe you've noticed teams like the phoenix suns suceed with a european style and an undersized, but skilled player in the post position? I'm excited to see the look on Hansblahblah's face when he gets his pocket picked by Singler who then throws a bullet to a streaking Taylor King who then drills a 30 footer. You can't post up if you can't get the ball into the front court. The great Duke teams since I've been a fan (I graduated in '01) nearly always got outrebounded, but they forced a million turnovers and they made more free throws than the other team attempted.


Since when is getting a top 15 recruit a BAD thing? I really don't follow your logic. You're also forgetting that LT and BZ are likely four year players. They ARE going to improve...maybe more than we even know. I agree that we are thin in the post, but we are loaded on the wings...we have arguably assembled more talent there than anyone else in the country. I feel very confident that K has a plan for recruiting.

Indoor66
11-01-2007, 03:45 PM
I'm telling you, man. All you have to do is look at the 09-10 roster, see that we only have 3 guards total (assuming Henderson is gone) and literally zero guard depth because all 3 project to start, and it's easy to conclude that we NEED a guard from the '09 class as much as a post player.

My gut feeling is that the '09 class will end up being a 4-man class of guard, guard, versatile wing, big, or at the very least a 3-man class of guard, versatile wing, big. I have a feeling that the coaching staff would be perfectly satisfied with an 09-10 roster consisting of big men Srs Thomas and Zoubek, Jr King, So Czyz, and ONE frosh big man. We are not going to go all-out for big men in the '09 class. I think we're going to get ONE big man, not two, and I think that one guy will not be "top 10" or whatever. That's my prediction.

I can't believe that we are getting up-tight about the 09-10 roster! My lord, we are about to start the 07-08 season - the first "official" game is 11/9! Who has any REAL idea about what the Duke team will look like in 08-09, much less the year after. Can we be real?

Troublemaker
11-01-2007, 03:52 PM
I can't believe that we are getting up-tight about the 09-10 roster! My lord, we are about to start the 07-08 season - the first "official" game is 11/9! Who has any REAL idea about what the Duke team will look like in 08-09, much less the year after. Can we be real?

Just ignore this conversation then. I already said in a previous post that it feels weird to talk about the 09-10 roster with this season about to start (did you read that at all???) but that is where this recruiting talk is headed.

I feel it's important to note the makeup of the projected 09-10 roster because I think there's this general consensus out there that Duke is going to go hard for multiple big men in '09. I don't think we are at all, and I certainly am not looking forward to tons and tons of "the demise of Duke recruiting" posts when it doesn't come to fruition that we are. That's why I'm trying to head this off at the pass, if you will. If people will take a look at the projected roster, they can easily conclude that big men will not have any more priority than guards in '09.

Also, as a general point, if you don't like recruiting talk, JUST IGNORE IT. Don't be rude and tell people that their conversation isn't "real" or whatever just because you don't follow recruiting.

BD80
11-01-2007, 05:02 PM
Getting Williams, while a good thing for Duke, is not a clear symbol that all is well with Duke recruiting.

Why so frickin negative??? You have opinions, but you also have an arse, and I would rather not be exposed to either. Ignoring your drivel is difficult when you irritate so many on the board and they quote your posts.


Those of us who have questioned the recruiting prowess never pointed to Williams as a must get bell weather of the recruiting program. ...

The Duke staff decided there were three players worth the time recuiting, and they got two. Nuff said.


Our big target this year was Monroe. And despite what anyone on this board thinks, that was a big miss. Most other recruiting sites are unanimous on this. It borders on disasterous, not because of the miss itself, but because it occured with a life-long Duke fan not even taking a visit, ostensibly because he felt Georgetown would develop him better. ...We may not like it, but that is an indictment of our ability to sell Duke to big men....

Absolute BS. Unadulterated BS. Pure BS. But ya gotta love the use of "ostensibly". You can wrap up any BS opinion without giving any support for it. Georgetown is a phenominal school and Thompson a great coach. For you to posit this kid's reasoning with NO justification is total BS. Wonder how many different schools contacted Monroe? So every one of those school suffered a disasterous miss? BTW, Boozer, Brand, Randolph, Williams, McRoberts, Zoubek, Singler, Ferry, Laetner, Abdelnaby, Parks. Great recruiting or great teaching?


I won't believe "all is well" with Duke recruiting until we corral a stud big man. ...

Horse crap. You'll find something else to whine about.


Also, when I talked earlier about Boynton and Hood not being "must gets" I did not state my point well. ...

Common problem with you. You love expressing your opinions, but forensics isn't your strong point.


We do need a good post player. Not want, need. The staff can focus on this now. ...

Duh. Thank goodness you posted. Hopefully somebody will relay this to the staff. I am certain this will change their whole approach! There are only so many "big" men that are worth giving a Duke scholarship to that won't be one year and gone.


ps. Am I supposed to be short and sweet? "Duke is great and this means everything is hunky-dorey." I don't believe that, and I stated the reasoning behind my thinking.

Try short and sweet. Please. And you haven't admitted you were wrong about Duke's recruiting. Williams is a GREAT get for Duke. He will play a bunch of minutes right out of the chute. Your error (one of many) is that he will be sharing minutes with other players for FOUR slots on the court.

Duke is great. Try enjoying it instead of complaining.

watzone
11-01-2007, 05:20 PM
Man, I tell ya .... BBQ never tasted so good;)

mapei
11-01-2007, 05:34 PM
"a life-long Duke fan not even taking a visit, ostensibly because he felt Georgetown would develop him better."

Given my druthers, I'd druther have Monroe than not. But its a thin line between "Georgetown can develop me better" and "Georgetown will let me shoot as much as I want in my one-year NBA audition," and based on lots of sources, I'm not sure which side of that line Monroe is on.

That may be what Monroe is thinking, but I guarantee that is not what his new coach will be thinking. Georgetown's offense is very controlled, and if that didn't change for Jeff Green as a junior, it sure isn't going to change for a freshman, no matter how studly he is.

And, if it does change, Chris Wright will be taking all the shots anyway. ;)

On another note, I don't get all the Rutgers references. What's that about?

captmojo
11-01-2007, 05:41 PM
On another note, I don't get all the Rutgers references. What's that about?

Maybe it has something to do with sexual prowess and hairstyles.:D

JBDuke
11-01-2007, 05:41 PM
That may be what Monroe is thinking, but I guarantee that is not what his new coach will be thinking. Georgetown's offense is very controlled, and if that didn't change for Jeff Green as a junior, it sure isn't going to change for a freshman, no matter how studly he is.

And, if it does change, Chris Wright will be taking all the shots anyway. ;)

On another note, I don't get all the Rutgers references. What's that about?

It's just a cheap shot from UVA fans. It harkens back to the contention that we're a northern school set in a southern state. That we're more New Jersey than North Carolina. And they don't want to give us the academic respect to compare us to, say, Princeton or Harvard.

mapei
11-01-2007, 05:43 PM
Oh, OK. Well, to that I say, who cares? ;)

Scoring Point
11-01-2007, 05:57 PM
ps. Am I supposed to be short and sweet? "Duke is great and this means everything is hunky-dorey." I don't believe that, and I stated the reasoning behind my thinking. There are still big questions going forward. I copped to being wrong, without hiding behind an anonymous sobriquet, two things almost no one else arround here is willing to do.

Just curious, but how many times do you need to get completely de-pantsed before you think about changing your posting style?

Repeat after me - reach does not equal grasp, reach does not equal grasp

Aren't you an attorney? Aren't attorneys supposed to exercise good judgment, as well as restraint and discretion? When are you going to evidence even a hint of these traits?

While my personal favorite of late was your description of some sort of parallel universe Bobby Hurley in one of the PG threads, your "conclusions" on recruiting are similarly off base. Monroe is a great talent who would have helped the program for sure. But to suggest he was some sort of low post savior runs counter to both descriptions of his game today, and his apparent interest in becoming even more of a face the basket college PF / NBA SF a la Jeff Green. You also completely discount the possibility of Zoubek and/or Lance developing into credible low post players for us. With regard to Zoubek, I would offer up the example of Aaron Gray, to whom he has been often compared. Gray played sparing as a freshman, was a decent bench player as a soph (~ 4ppg, 3rpg in 12mpg) and then improved sufficiently to average 14 and 10 in his last 2 years at Pitt. He made the Bulls roster as a 2nd round pick and is expected to be a regular part of their rotation as Ben Wallace's primary backup at center.

As for Eliot Williams, whether or not he has superstar potential, athletic and verstaile mid-size guys have been a staple of all of the best Duke teams over the years. We can never have too many of them in my book.

Jumbo
11-01-2007, 05:59 PM
Guys, stop. Just stop. Especially Patrick.

phaedrus
11-01-2007, 06:26 PM
I think we should abort the Favorite Player polls and start over. Elliot deserves a fair shot.

On another note, he stands to have the most commonly misspelled name since Sheldon Williams. Which permutation of El(l)iot(t) is correct?

Jumbo
11-01-2007, 08:02 PM
I think we should abort the Favorite Player polls and start over. Elliot deserves a fair shot.

On another note, he stands to have the most commonly misspelled name since Sheldon Williams. Which permutation of El(l)iot(t) is correct?

Oh man, I can't wait to update the spelling guide. Don't forget Czyz, too!

weezie
11-01-2007, 08:57 PM
And they don't want to give us the academic respect to compare us to, say, Princeton or Harvard.<br><br>Like we ask them for respect anyway...they don't even merit their own derisive cheer. <br>

SilkyJ
11-01-2007, 09:00 PM
Man, I tell ya .... BBQ never tasted so good;)

How could you eat BBQ at a time like this. Its the apocalypse!


<br><br>Like we ask them for respect anyway...they don't even merit their own derisive cheer. <br>

whats a wahoo?

also, to some new-er folks: you'll just have to get used to patrick. he's a bit of a vet on the boards and unfortunately his posts are long winded and usually doomsday-ish. if you don't like it don't read it...of course, he's no greybeard ;)

DevilAlumna
11-01-2007, 09:42 PM
whats a wahoo?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahoos

(And I thought people on DBR had too much free time....)

Got_Duke
11-02-2007, 10:59 AM
oh and forgot bout olek czyz

Got_Duke
11-02-2007, 11:14 AM
Dear Pessimist Patrick Yates,

If big men Duke is recruiting just take a look at the history of Duke bigs and how they are producing in the NBA at this very moment, they would have no doubt they could be developed and prepared for the NBA beyond a shadow of a doubt. Point in case: Ferry, Laettner (f/c), Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer, Shelden Williams, Josh McRoberts, and even Shavlik Randolph. All, except Laettner & Ferry, are in the NBA now, 2 of which (brand & boozer) are big producers.

Name one person within the last 10 years from Georgetown who produces like Brand and Boozer. Forget that.... name one big from Georgetown from the last 10 years who is CURRENTLY in the NBA.

The only big current Georgetown GT3 has coached is Roy Hibbert and though his size is hard to pass up in the NBA, he has still got quite a bit of refining to do.

And speaking of your tirade that we need to land a post player, I will have to agree, but when you speak of Duke needing to be Duke again I believe you're missing out on an important point. You must note the change in Duke strategy as far as offense is concerned - it's a more European style of play and we have 2 guys at 6'8" who are quick and athletic. Singler of course is the more skilled.

JasonEvans
11-02-2007, 12:04 PM
To the folks who are angry with Patrick and other pessimistic posters,

I would ask that you remember that civility and respect should be part of your rebuttals. Do not resort to name-calling or personal attacks please. I know there are more than enough facts that you all can call upon to make your points. you do not need to call Patrick (and others) names to refute their arguements.

--Jason "and to Patrick I would says that when people feel so strongly as to call you names and attack your posts so fiercely, it may say something about your posting style as well" Evans

SilkyJ
11-02-2007, 12:41 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahoos

(And I thought people on DBR had too much free time....)

I know what a wahoo is. I was responding to weezie's comments that we don't have a derisive cheer for UVA, which we don't.

But we do say "What's-a-Wa-hoo?"

Saratoga2
11-02-2007, 07:44 PM
What a an absolute brilliant way to start off the season:) Thank you, Elliot.

Jon Scheyer. Nolan Smith. Greg Paulus. Taylor King. Kyle Singler. Elliot Williams.

How's that for Murderers Row, Duke edition? That's worth, say, an easy 10, 11 triples a contest? National record to be re-broken, perhaps?:) Here Comes Duke!!!


After reading that Elliot is a left hander, I wondered how many of our past prominent players were lefties. Does a lefty have an advantage playing on the left side of the court?

Got_Duke
11-02-2007, 07:48 PM
"...t00l..." is my sign off, my sincerely, not a name-calling mechanism

-jk
11-02-2007, 07:59 PM
"...t00l..." is my sign off, my sincerely, not a name-calling mechanism

And yet it appeared in one and only one of your posts to date. Pardon our misunderstanding.

-jk

BD80
11-03-2007, 09:13 AM
After reading that Elliot is a left hander, I wondered how many of our past prominent players were lefties. Does a lefty have an advantage playing on the left side of the court?

Jim Suddath, 78-81, sweet shooting lefty. Best known for his friendship with and absolute contrast to Kenny Denard. They actually roomed together their first year. Jim went on to become a minister. Kenny didn't.

jimsumner
11-03-2007, 09:23 AM
If we want to talk about great lefties at Duke, we start with Johnny Dawkins, move down a tad to Jack Marin, and hover for awhile on Hack Tison, Steve Vandenberg, Dick DeVenzio, Gary Melchionni, Pete Kramer, and Thomas Hill, while appreciative of the contributions of Suddath, Greg Wendt, Lee Melchionni and others. I'm sure I've left out some folks. If you want pre-1960 or so, you'll have to rely on somebody else's recollections

So Elliott has some work to do to make the Duke all-lefty team, especially as a guard.

mapei
11-03-2007, 09:29 AM
name one big from Georgetown from the last 10 years who is CURRENTLY in the NBA.

The only big current Georgetown GT3 has coached is Roy Hibbert and though his size is hard to pass up in the NBA, he has still got quite a bit of refining to do.

Mike Sweetney, and last year's #5 overall Jeff Green. Now I won't argue that Sweets hasn't underproduced so far, but he is in the NBA. And I think 6'9" Green could become a star. So could, eventually, current Hoya 6'9" DaJuan Summers.

I'm not challenging your point that Duke has impressive bigs in the NBA. I agree with you. Boozer in particular has been a surprise to me; I never realized he had that much potential. But you don't need to diss another school, without facts, to make your point.

jimsumner
11-03-2007, 10:22 AM
Let's add Josh to the lefties list.

As for Monroe. I don't think he wants to be the next Mike Sweetney. I think he wants to be the next Kevin Durant.

Indoor66
11-03-2007, 11:14 AM
Let's add Josh to the lefties list.

As for Monroe. I don't think he wants to be the next Mike Sweetney. I think he wants to be the next Kevin Durant.

IRRC, I think Josh was right handed - and did some things left handed.

dkbaseball
11-03-2007, 11:18 AM
If we want to talk about great lefties at Duke, we start with Johnny Dawkins, move down a tad to Jack Marin, and hover for awhile on Hack Tison, Steve Vandenberg, Dick DeVenzio, Gary Melchionni, Pete Kramer, and Thomas Hill, while appreciative of the contributions of Suddath, Greg Wendt, Lee Melchionni and others. I'm sure I've left out some folks. If you want pre-1960 or so, you'll have to rely on somebody else's recollections

So Elliott has some work to do to make the Duke all-lefty team, especially as a guard.

Another pretty good lefty nearly played in the program, in fact the best lefty in the American League for a few years -- Frank Tanana. I believe he was all set to come play basketball for Duke in 1971, when the Angels tempted him away with signing money.

Presumably there was at least one from pre-1960 -- the lefthander himself, Charles Driesell.

dkbaseball
11-03-2007, 11:55 AM
Also, how about John Harrell?

captmojo
11-03-2007, 02:32 PM
After reading that Elliot is a left hander, I wondered how many of our past prominent players were lefties. Does a lefty have an advantage playing on the left side of the court?

Dawkins' style of shot, I'm speaking of the one-hand fingertip rolling push shot, is very hard to defend. Remember the great majority of the world are right-handed. When those right-handers try to defend this previously mentioned style of shot, their mind automatically tells them to block-reach for the ball from the shooter's right side. The mind set is that powerful. The victim of discrimination left-hander, is already programmed to expect his opponent's shot from the right and furthermore, with the ball in the shooting hand of the right-hander, the left-handed defender is automatically expecting the shot to come from that side. The right-handed has to make mental adjustment.

wisteria
11-04-2007, 02:30 PM
hmmm.. Does anyone know why Elliot is called "E-mail" ? I know it may sound like a silly question, but I am just curious.

DukeBlood
12-28-2007, 02:44 PM
I have been doing a little research on him. Just thought I would share what i have discovered.

I watched him on TV the other day as well.

Things I like.

A very good thief. Quick hands and possibly step in as one of the better defenders for Duke next year.

A decent outside shooter. His form looks really good(no really odd release or anything). Has a pretty high arc to his shot.

IF Henderson stays he will be the second most athletic player on the team. I would say a little more athletic then Nolan Smith.. Almost as quick too.

Like Kyle Singler, He just looked comfortable(and good) playing the game.

With all this said. He has a chance to be a All ACC type player.


Things I didnt like.

Didnt look comfortable at the point. He IS a SG not a combo. Maybe this isnt a bad thing since we have a couple of Combo guards.

Outside of a little ballhandling he looked really good.

Duke09
12-28-2007, 04:03 PM
I've been thinking this for a while, but I'm finally going to say it. I'm worried about next years team will be as good as this one because D-Mark is leaving. We will lose our 2nd leading rebounder, the area in which this team is weakest. I'm not worried about scoring because E-Will and other guys could replace his scoring, but without replacing the boards we could be in trouble. Czyz is not going to play much his frosh year. Underneath we will have Lance, Zoub, Singler, and I guess King. I understand that players improve year to year, and Lance and Zoubek could break out and become 8-10 reb contributors. But right now I am a bit worried about it. Yeah, we got 20-30 games left this year, and we should concentrate on that before next year, but I'm just saying.

p.s. sorry for high jacking the thread if thats what happens

DukeBlood
12-28-2007, 05:29 PM
I've been thinking this for a while, but I'm finally going to say it. I'm worried about next years team will be as good as this one because D-Mark is leaving. We will lose our 2nd leading rebounder, the area in which this team is weakest. I'm not worried about scoring because E-Will and other guys could replace his scoring, but without replacing the boards we could be in trouble. Czyz is not going to play much his frosh year. Underneath we will have Lance, Zoub, Singler, and I guess King. I understand that players improve year to year, and Lance and Zoubek could break out and become 8-10 reb contributors. But right now I am a bit worried about it. Yeah, we got 20-30 games left this year, and we should concentrate on that before next year, but I'm just saying.

p.s. sorry for high jacking the thread if thats what happens


No worries. I as well have thought about that.

Williams isnt a bad rebounder. Probably along the lines of Henderson. He can get up and grab a rebound. But that doesnt replace Nelson as a rebounder.

Now, Either LT, Zoub or McClure will step up. If not all 3. Those guys IF they step up can replace Nelson and then some. Zoubek is a OK rebounder, McClure is a garbage guy and always seems to rebound well. Lance is streaky but has proved he can crash the boards. Hopefully a JR Thomas will prove to be a very good one.

I honestly believe you will have nothing to worry about. All the 3 FR will be WAY better(How often do FR not improve to their SO seasons?).. I can see rebounding being a concern. But the team as a whole will be that much more experiened and better.

dukestheheat
12-28-2007, 06:10 PM
Duke09 and DukeBlood-

I'm thinking about the Pitt game where we were soundly outrebounded (don't have the stats in front of me) and we all knew going into that game that Pitt was stronger in that category and that would go in their favor, no surprises.

Yet, with the rebounding edge decidedly going to Pitt (again, as we all knew it would) Duke lost that game by only one point and the bottom-line is this: the rebounding edge TO the other team did NOT matter.

Going down the stretch that was Duke's game to lose, and they did because of: very poor free throw shooting, very, very poor shot selection in the second half, poor made shot &#37; in the second half and also very poor decision making when it came to ball control.

So, I still say that any team that can outrebound Duke is not really going to affect Duke this year because we are scoring so well.

If Duke hits its average on free throws, keeps turnovers to average or less than average, makes a usual % of shots and three point shots, and makes the usual good decision on shot selection and off-the-ball movement/spacing, Duke will win most games its going to play this year, including going very deep into the NCAA's and also the Final Four. I think this same line of thinking applies also to next year's team, without Demarcus Nelson due to graduation, as we'll still be quite up-tempo.

We have the offensive horses and firepower, now we need to bring ALL the stuff I just listed above (like we normally do) and Duke is looking GOOD.

dth.

Saratoga2
12-28-2007, 09:44 PM
Duke09 and DukeBlood-

I'm thinking about the Pitt game where we were soundly outrebounded (don't have the stats in front of me) and we all knew going into that game that Pitt was stronger in that category and that would go in their favor, no surprises.

Yet, with the rebounding edge decidedly going to Pitt (again, as we all knew it would) Duke lost that game by only one point and the bottom-line is this: the rebounding edge TO the other team did NOT matter.

Going down the stretch that was Duke's game to lose, and they did because of: very poor free throw shooting, very, very poor shot selection in the second half, poor made shot % in the second half and also very poor decision making when it came to ball control.

So, I still say that any team that can outrebound Duke is not really going to affect Duke this year because we are scoring so well.

If Duke hits its average on free throws, keeps turnovers to average or less than average, makes a usual % of shots and three point shots, and makes the usual good decision on shot selection and off-the-ball movement/spacing, Duke will win most games its going to play this year, including going very deep into the NCAA's and also the Final Four. I think this same line of thinking applies also to next year's team, without Demarcus Nelson due to graduation, as we'll still be quite up-tempo.

We have the offensive horses and firepower, now we need to bring ALL the stuff I just listed above (like we normally do) and Duke is looking GOOD.

dth.

We got outrebounded 53 to 39. That is way to many for us to have a chance against a very good shooting team, like Memphis for instance. We need Lance back and recovered and we need him to pick up the rebounding slack. He was really hurting in the Pitt game but with two weeks of rest he should be at full strength.

jma4life
12-28-2007, 10:10 PM
Not to get ahead, but there are numerous cases where Duke loses one player, gains maybe one player and improves. The championship team in 01 comes to mind. They lost Carawell, the ACC player of the year, brought in only Chris Duhon (and Andre Sweet but he was ineligible for much of the year if I remember correctly) yet due to improvements by the freshmen class and other members of the team, that team improved pretty significantly.

Even this year, we lost our best rebounder but have been able to compensate with freshmen and improved sophomores.

No, next year's team will not be bringing in another Kyle Singler but this team will have plenty of players capable of making big jumps next year. As good as Singler is this year, he will be that much better as a sophomore. Henderson will only continue to improve and the same can basically be said for anyone on this team.

captmojo
12-29-2007, 11:21 AM
...you should always be prepared. However, if the field goal percentages rise, there won't be as many rebounding opportunities, at least on the offensive end of the floor.;) No more Pitts, please.

sandinmyshoes
12-29-2007, 11:54 AM
What I've seen of him, just highlights, for some reason he reminds me of a blend of Phil Henderson and Daniel Ewing. He also looks like he would play the 2, but could do spot duty at the pg position from time to time.

Patrick Yates
01-11-2008, 04:50 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/briefingroom

Apparantly he got hurt last night. His knee. The doctor visit is today, but I haven't seen an update. Any news?

Patrick Yates

MChambers
01-11-2008, 05:03 PM
Somebody check out that floor.

Seriously, I hope he's okay.

jzp5079
01-11-2008, 05:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQNv_7IiqXk

we are finally getting a player that WANTS to take over a game.

(x shav, x mcroberts, x paulus, x singler, x thomas)


no knock against singler as he is still a great player, but he dosn't look like he wants to take over.

Judging the looks of Mr. E. Williams, he could end up being one of the best freshmen in the nation, and possibly end up starting, and leading the team in scoring.

Hopefully he'll be fine.

PG Smith
SG Williams
SF Henderson
PF Singler
C Thomas, Zoubek, Olek, McClure?

Turtleboy
01-11-2008, 05:42 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/briefingroom

Apparantly he got hurt last night. His knee. The doctor visit is today, but I haven't seen an update. Any news?

Patrick YatesSeems like good news :
Williams, meanwhile, returned to the St. George's bench under his own power with less than two minutes remaining in the period. The trainer taped an ice bag to his knee and he watched the conclusion. He scored 20 first-half points.

"I'm OK. I'm going to see the doctor (today)," he said. "I'm just proud of the team pulling that one through. When I went out, I had total faith."

Said Ruffin: "Luckily, thankfully, I'm told by the trainer that he'll be back in the next few days, so that's a good thing."


http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/jan/11/gryphons-rally-for-narrow-win/

Ignatius07
01-11-2008, 05:44 PM
we are finally getting a player that WANTS to take over a game.

You don't think Henderson wants to? Sure looks like he does... at least he did until the staff reined him in somewhat.

Jumbo
01-11-2008, 06:42 PM
we are finally getting a player that WANTS to take over a game.
What does that even mean?



PG Smith
SG Williams
SF Henderson
PF Singler
C Thomas, Zoubek, Olek, McClure?

Yeah, Williams is going to just step in and start over a kid who is currently one of the team's best four players and is second in minutes played (Scheyer). Right.

Ignatius07
01-11-2008, 06:54 PM
Maybe Scheyer will fall in love with his role as 6th man and refuse to start.

In all seriousness, Elliot would have to beat out Scheyer, Paulus, AND Pocius in that scenario. Well I expect EW to contribute, starting probably won't happen, at the very least initially.

johnb
01-11-2008, 07:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQNv_7IiqXk

we are finally getting a player that WANTS to take over a game.

(x shav, x mcroberts, x paulus, x singler, x thomas)


no knock against singler as he is still a great player, but he dosn't look like he wants to take over.



Jumbo already said it better, but the limiting factor in "taking over" a game is not generally desire. There are simply very few people who have the talent of an elton or jj; their individual presence regularly altered games in a positive way (it's easier to take over a game by hogging the ball and blowing up your own team). Short of having a player of the year on the team, we'll have to make do with guys who are only really great basketball players.

DukeBlood
01-11-2008, 07:13 PM
I dont see how E. Williams starts. I can see him being a contributer to next years team but not a starter. Nolan Smith will have a chance before he does IMO.

Elliot Williams has alot going for him and will eventually start for Duke. He is a good looking guard that doesn't have many negatives against him.

Good luck on a quick recovery

Karl Beem
01-11-2008, 08:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQNv_7IiqXk

we are finally getting a player that WANTS to take over a game.

(x shav, x mcroberts, x paulus, x singler, x thomas)


no knock against singler as he is still a great player, but he dosn't look like he wants to take over.


How idiotic! The post, that is.:mad:

CDu
01-12-2008, 09:12 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQNv_7IiqXk

we are finally getting a player that WANTS to take over a game.

(x shav, x mcroberts, x paulus, x singler, x thomas)


no knock against singler as he is still a great player, but he dosn't look like he wants to take over.

Judging the looks of Mr. E. Williams, he could end up being one of the best freshmen in the nation, and possibly end up starting, and leading the team in scoring.

Hopefully he'll be fine.

PG Smith
SG Williams
SF Henderson
PF Singler
C Thomas, Zoubek, Olek, McClure?

I'm guessing you didn't see the YouTube footage of Singler's high school games. Because if you did, you'd realize that he LOVED taking over games in high school. That's not his problem. Same for Scheyer. And I imagine the same is true for Nelson and Henderson (though Henderson did share the court with a pretty lethal scorer as well). Desire is not the problem for any of these guys.

Uncle Drew
01-12-2008, 09:18 AM
For the love of Mary stop bickering about who does or doesn't want to take over games. The bloody post is about Williams, has ANYONE heard more news about the extent of his inury yet. And if anyone does please be kind enough to post a link.

Carlos
01-12-2008, 10:04 AM
jzp - the only thing I would say about wanting to take over a game is that there's a huge difference in wanting to take over a game and actually doing it on the HS level and then on the college level.

I'd also point out that saying Singler doesn't want too now doesn't mean anything about the player he will be at Duke. I doubt anyone who watched Shane Battier as a freshman would have predicted he would be a guy who would take over games but by the time he was a junior he was doing just that.

rsvman
01-12-2008, 10:29 AM
jzp - the only thing I would say about wanting to take over a game is that there's a huge difference in wanting to take over a game and actually doing it on the HS level and then on the college level.

I'd also point out that saying Singler doesn't want too now doesn't mean anything about the player he will be at Duke. I doubt anyone who watched Shane Battier as a freshman would have predicted he would be a guy who would take over games but by the time he was a junior he was doing just that.

BINGO! For my money, Singler looks better right now than did Battier at this point in his freshman season.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-12-2008, 10:32 AM
BINGO! For my money, Singler looks better right now than did Battier at this point in his freshman season.

Wojo made the same comparison yesterday. We can only hope that Kyle turns out to be the player that Shane did (no reason to think that he won't - he's a very hard worker), and that he stays long enough at Duke for it to happen here.

Devilsfan
01-12-2008, 12:51 PM
Maybe he will develop enough to be if he stays another year or two.

devildownunder
01-13-2008, 06:07 AM
Two things to love about the highlight reel. 1) the form on the lefty jumpshot. 2) the nickname. E-mail, terrific!

VaDukie
01-13-2008, 01:27 PM
No way Elliot starts next year unless he is an absolute stud. We need to have reasonable expectations with him - he is ranked 15-20 in what is regarded as a weak recruiting class. He certainly does look like a player that will be good in time, but let's not expect him to step on campus and be J-Will or something. Watching highlights is nice, but Nolan's reel looked equally if not more impressive, he played against better competition, and he's had a fairly typical freshmen year in terms of great games and ones that weren't.

I'm a big Elliot fan and am absolutely thrilled we landed him when I honestly thought we had 0 chance, but let him get on campus before we anoint him.

Cameron
01-13-2008, 05:27 PM
We can only hope that Kyle turns out to be the player that Shane did (no reason to think that he won't...)

Really, there is no reason to think Kyle won't become as great as Shane Battier? That's a pretty bold statement considering Shane was as complete a player college basketball has seen over the last 30 years.

I don't mean this in a smart a** way, either. However, I'd just be happy if Kyle could end up half the player Battier was while in Durham. That would equate (philisophically speaking, of course) to 1.5 National Defensive Player of the Years, 1 All-American selection, 0.5 National Player of the Year Awards, and at least one trip to the NCAA title game. Wow, Shane's Duke productivity cut in half looks almost twice as good as the careers of most great college players.

Besides, does anyone here really think Singler will be sticking around past two or three years? Highly doubtful.

jimsumner
01-13-2008, 05:33 PM
I also think some caution is in order before using a highlight reel as an absolute indicator of potential. We could all put together a 30-second Marty Pocius reel that would make him look like the second coming of Jerry West.

That's not to say that EW won't be a great player at Duke. But I've seen Jordan Davidson dribble behind his back, pick a pocket, and drill a 3 but he's still a walk-on.

Rich
01-13-2008, 08:44 PM
I've seen Jordan Davidson dribble behind his back, pick a pocket, and drill a 3 but he's still a walk-on.

What's your point? JD is THE MAN!

wallyman
01-14-2008, 01:04 AM
...well, maybe not the second coming of Jerry West, but maybe Marty could have a great highlight reel because he still has the potential to be a terrific player.

greybeard
01-14-2008, 11:15 AM
right now Singler MUST put forth maximum effort down the stretch on the defensive end, defending the middle and defensive boards. He doesn't, this team doesn't win. Is that what you mean by "taking over games." It should be and he does.

VaDukie
02-19-2008, 07:23 PM
http://proxy.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=3252976

East team is 50% ACC - not bad.

MChambers
02-19-2008, 07:49 PM
Interesting that Larry Drew made the team, given that most recruiting services don't rate him that highly. Guess it shows how much it helps to sign with a Duke or UNC. Now we can listen to announcers say how many Mickie Dee's Kerlina has.

Ignatius07
02-19-2008, 08:02 PM
We'll still have more, so be prepared for more excuses when they lose.

Channing
02-19-2008, 08:34 PM
I'm glad to see Jeff Capel get another McDonalds AA down at Oklahoma. Not a place I necessarily equate with getting big time basketball recruits.

RelativeWays
02-19-2008, 09:19 PM
The sheep get another center named Tyler. Yay....

dukelifer
02-19-2008, 09:46 PM
After watching the All Star festivities it made me think of the who might have been a college senior this year with fellow AA Demarcus Nelson. That year included Dwight Howard, who won the slam dunk contest and considered one of the best big men in the game, and Daniel Gibson who won the MVP of the Rookie-Sophomore game. That year also had Lamarcus Aldridge, Jordan Farmar, Josh Smith. JR Smith, Rudy Gay. Al Jefferson, Corey Brewer, Marvin Williams, Rajon Rondo, Sebastian Terfair, Darius Washington, Glen Davis, Robert Swift, and even Duke signee, Shawn Livingston. Of that team, only Nelson, Afflalo, Hairston, Mike Williams, DJ white and Jawann McClellan are still playing college ball. I was wondering if this year's class would have as many high level NBA-level players. Not too sure. If anything, looking at the 2004 team makes you realize how wide a range there is in McD AA's talent level.

pratt '04
02-19-2008, 09:51 PM
Of that team, only Nelson, Afflalo, Hairston, Mike Williams, DJ white and Jawann McClellan are still playing college ball.

Afflalo plays for the Pistons this season.

Your point stands, though... interesting that only 5 remain in college ball.

Double DD
02-20-2008, 12:45 AM
After watching the All Star festivities it made me think of the who might have been a college senior this year with fellow AA Demarcus Nelson. That year included Dwight Howard, who won the slam dunk contest and considered one of the best big men in the game, and Daniel Gibson who won the MVP of the Rookie-Sophomore game. That year also had Lamarcus Aldridge, Jordan Farmar, Josh Smith. JR Smith, Rudy Gay. Al Jefferson, Corey Brewer, Marvin Williams, Rajon Rondo, Sebastian Terfair, Darius Washington, Glen Davis, Robert Swift, and even Duke signee, Shawn Livingston. Of that team, only Nelson, Afflalo, Hairston, Mike Williams, DJ white and Jawann McClellan are still playing college ball. I was wondering if this year's class would have as many high level NBA-level players. Not too sure. If anything, looking at the 2004 team makes you realize how wide a range there is in McD AA's talent level.

That 2004 high school class was one of the most loaded ones ever. 14 1st round picks on that McD's team, 8 of them lottery picks. By comparison, the 2003 team only had 10 1st round picks and 4 lottery picks, and the 2002 team had only 7 1st rounders but all were in the lottery. This year's class is supposed to be as weak as the 2005 class and that class will most likely fall well short of any of the numbers stated above.

sandinmyshoes
02-20-2008, 01:12 PM
Selected to the McDonald's All American team. No surprise, but congrats anyway!

jzp5079
02-20-2008, 01:36 PM
a day late... but there is no reason not to have 2 threads congratulating the kid... he will be helping Duke to its next national championship!

sandinmyshoes
02-20-2008, 01:38 PM
How did I miss that? Oh well, Mods do what you do! :o

Karl Beem
02-20-2008, 01:40 PM
a day late... but there is no reason not to have 2 threads congratulating the kid... he will be helping Duke to its next national championship!

Pessimist!:rolleyes:

whereinthehellami
02-20-2008, 01:44 PM
I saw that he just returned February 9th from his knee injury (out for ~ a month) and put up 20 pts, 7 rbs, and 7 assists. Hopefully he is fully recovered.

BD80
02-20-2008, 01:44 PM
Here's hoping Ty produces like his brother Luke - now at ND. We were recruiting Luke and are lucky we didn't get him. Although the tallest player for the Irish, he has the highest percentage of threes taken. It is difficult to find Zeller anywhere near the paint. Needless to say, his three years at ND have been considered disappointing - one buddy of mine continuously complains about the 6' 11" shooting guard when they need more help in the post. I hope his little brother has the same enthusiasm for mixing it up.

sandinmyshoes
02-20-2008, 02:45 PM
Here's hoping Ty produces like his brother Luke - now at ND. We were recruiting Luke and are lucky we didn't get him. Although the tallest player for the Irish, he has the highest percentage of threes taken. It is difficult to find Zeller anywhere near the paint. Needless to say, his three years at ND have been considered disappointing - one buddy of mine continuously complains about the 6' 11" shooting guard when they need more help in the post. I hope his little brother has the same enthusiasm for mixing it up.

I wouldn't count on it. From what I've read and seen, he's a lot more willing to mix it up in the paint than his brother. While he's no Hansbrough in the paint, he's probably more like Josh or Kyle in range and post play ability. I would compare him to some of Williams' guys at Kansas, like Collison, but it's way too early to be drawing those comparisons between a pro and a guy not even out of high school.

My UNC friends insist that he's as much better than his brother, than Joe Wolf was better than his brother, Jeff. But, they suffer from azure pigmented spectacles.

sandinmyshoes
02-20-2008, 02:47 PM
Interesting that Larry Drew made the team, given that most recruiting services don't rate him that highly. Guess it shows how much it helps to sign with a Duke or UNC. Now we can listen to announcers say how many Mickie Dee's Kerlina has.


Drew got in because the point guard class isn't very deep. He's rated about the sixth or seventh best point guard, and one of the guys ahead of him has some legal issues.

Don't get me wrong, he'll be smart, solid pg for UNC, but he's no Lawson or Felton. He might be one of those guys who are annoyingly better than their physical game would suggest, but he won't scare you as a pure athlete.

hondoheel
02-20-2008, 03:34 PM
Drew got in because the point guard class isn't very deep. He's rated about the sixth or seventh best point guard, and one of the guys ahead of him has some legal issues.

Don't get me wrong, he'll be smart, solid pg for UNC, but he's no Lawson or Felton. He might be one of those guys who are annoyingly better than their physical game would suggest, but he won't scare you as a pure athlete.

I haven't seen him yet, but Ed Cota is who Drew is being compared to by a lot who have seen him.

sandinmyshoes
02-20-2008, 04:10 PM
I've heard the Cota comparison also, athough most think he has a better shot than Cota. As a Duke fan, I hope he plays defense like Cota, excepting that Final Four run where he actually put some effort into it.