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JBDuke
01-14-2019, 09:22 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here. No venting, no bashing players, no terping.

Wander
01-14-2019, 09:23 PM
This game was 100% karma for the "Jack White over Cam Reddish" thread.

CameronCrazy'11
01-14-2019, 09:23 PM
dumb

DukeWarhead
01-14-2019, 09:25 PM
Just lost at home to a team that got blown out by Georgia Tech. Bad.

CDu
01-14-2019, 09:25 PM
Just lost at home to a team that got blown out by Georgia Tech. Bad.

Well, when you are missing two starters, that can happen.

OldPhiKap
01-14-2019, 09:25 PM
Great game by Syracuse, congrats.

Lots going against us and we still almost won.

I don’t feel bad about the loss, but am obviously worried about Tre.

YmoBeThere
01-14-2019, 09:26 PM
dumb

Not sure what the marching band had to do with it, as for the pep band well I was watching on a TV with no volume.

cruxer
01-14-2019, 09:26 PM
This game was 100% karma for the "Jack White over Cam Reddish" thread.

I hope Jack doesn't lose any confidence after this one. With guys out he had to stretch far beyond what his role was supposed to be in this game.

ndkjr70
01-14-2019, 09:26 PM
Tre out hurts. Cam out hurts. Jack White was, uh, that.

How the hell didn’t coach K tell them to stop heaving threes? We stink at shooting threes. They came into the second half in dire foul trouble and we just heaved it over and over and over and over.

That was a humiliating effort by the coaching staff. We’ll lose by thirty to UVA if Tre is out.

CameronDuke
01-14-2019, 09:26 PM
Tough loss but the only thing on my mind right now is the health of Tre Jones. If he misses extended time, Duke could lose many more including the next one vs UVA. Praying for you, Tre.

The team fought as hard as they could. They were simply undermanned and stunned when Tre went down. Before he got injured it looked like it was gonna be a relatively big blowout.

Again, I don't really care about this loss at all compared to how much I want Tre to be ok.

WiJoe
01-14-2019, 09:26 PM
Ridiculous. there was NO WAY White was EVER going to start over Barrett. Not sure what the record for shots in a game is, but 30? 4-for-17 on 3s? Ludicrous.

On to another orange team. Then at Pitt.

Prayers for Tre.

Ballboy1998
01-14-2019, 09:26 PM
Shameful officiating in the second half. For about 10 minutes we attacked the basket and got mauled with not a single whistle. Then, understandably enough, we gave up on going inside and just clanked 3s.

That said, not much to take from a game sans Tre and Cam, other than to appreciate that those guys are really good. Painful to lose an OT game where the other team hit a banked in and a 3/4 court three. Ugh.

RaiderDevil
01-14-2019, 09:26 PM
Duke wins by 30 with Tre. Hope he's ok

ChillinDuke
01-14-2019, 09:26 PM
I mean, we didn't have Tre or Cam tonight. What can you expect? Imagine that team all year without Tre and Cam. We'd be pretty mediocre.

They gave it all they had on a 2-day turnaround. Jack had a miserable night, especially shooting, but the guy has to keep shooting - like it or not.

That buzzer beater at the half changed the game. Crazy.

I mean it sucks but what can you do? If we don't have Tre and Cam in a 2nd round tourney game, what are you thinking and feeling? Heck, what are you thinking in the first round?

- Chillin

ETA - As amazing as K's final play vs FSU was, I thought his coaching was poor tonight. Don't know why - maybe they didn't have enough time between FSU and Cuse. But the settling for threes was odd. The lack of space between Bolden and Zion seemed correctable. The rotation seemed too small for a shorthanded team that looked gassed (to my eye) - you need to sub someone when players are gassed out there - something's gotta give when you're down two starters.

ndkjr70
01-14-2019, 09:27 PM
I hope Jack doesn't lose any confidence after this one. With guys out he had to stretch far beyond what his role was supposed to be in this game.

How couldn’t you lose confidence? That was the worst shooting performance I’ve seen in any level in my entire life.

richardjackson199
01-14-2019, 09:27 PM
Damn that 80 foot prayer

Bluedog
01-14-2019, 09:27 PM
Very disappointing, but took a miracle 75 footer, the worst 3-point shooting team in the league shooting 46% from three, us shooting 9-43 from 3, down two starters including our PG and lose in OT. Still stings though... Going to be hard to rebound against UVa.

Ian
01-14-2019, 09:27 PM
Honestly I don't even care about this loss. I just want to know how Tre Jones is doing. If he's done we're not hanging any banners this season.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-14-2019, 09:27 PM
I said this on the chat, and I'll say it here: if Duke doesn't have mechanism to send video of the constant game in game out mugging of Zion.....to drop the video right on Swofford's desk...then shame on Duke...and the muggings will continue.

DukeTrinity11
01-14-2019, 09:28 PM
Get better soon Tre!

Burn the tape, on to the next one.

cruxer
01-14-2019, 09:28 PM
Well, when you are missing two starters, that can happen.

Missing 2 starters with no chance to actually practice with the team you actually have available, to boot. They ran out of gas at the end. The short turnaround combined with the unplanned short bench did us in. We play that team again at full strength, we beat them double digits.

TruBlu
01-14-2019, 09:28 PM
Gotta give credit to Cuse. They challenged our outside shooting, and it paid off for them. Cuse shot above their average. Two of our starters not playing. The stars were in perfect alignment for this upset.

Get better Cam and Tre. Shake it off, Jack.

DBGoins
01-14-2019, 09:28 PM
Let’s hope tre is okay.

Missing two starters for most of the game.

White went 0 for 10

Maybe over looked this game a bit with Va coming to town this weekend.

Perfect storm, let regroup and get heathly.

gocanes0506
01-14-2019, 09:29 PM
Despite the couple of what-ifs.

Big ones what if the refs actually made a call on a third of 13’s fouls in the 2nd half? What if we hit just one of the 30+ 3s missed in regulation?

In the end with having 2 starters out and missed all those 3s, its pretty good that the game went into OT. Just wish I believed in morale victories so I wouldn’t be so disgruntled right now.

knicknut
01-14-2019, 09:29 PM
A little baffled why we stopped driving with so many of their players in foul trouble. To their defense, there was also a lot of inconsistent foul calls in the second half. Zion would get clobbered on one entry pass and it was just a turnover, yet a couple of the shooting fouls were far less egregious.

Feel bad for White. Hard to say he shouldn't have taken most of those open threes. With either Tre or Cam we win going away, I feel. Oh, well, next one up.

Also clutch job by Mike Eades to make us all remember TV Teddy has competition.

jsx
01-14-2019, 09:29 PM
Coach has forgotten more basketball than I’ll ever know, but a little surprised he couldn’t try to steal a couple minutes with goldwire in the second half, if for no other reason than to avoid having rj expel more energy bringing the ball up

SCMatt33
01-14-2019, 09:30 PM
I give them a lot of credit for even getting it to OT against a team who was spinning around a dizzy bat three times, chucking it over their head blindfolded and having it go in, but this team was not at all prepared to play any respectable offense without Tre. That goes just as much on the coaches as the players. They had pretty much two plays the entire last 15 minutes of that game, chuck at three after lazy perimeter passes, or bounce pass to Zion in the middle of all 5 defenders and hope he could muscle through it. I don’t know the final number, but there’s n reason this Duke team should ever be within 10 of taking that many threes in a game. This may have been a high scoring game, but the offense was the issue.

Again, you can’t do anything about the ridiculous number of low percentage shots Syracuse made and that’s ultimately why the game was lost, but this team did not step up to fill the void of missing a point guard as well. And there’s a good chance they’ll need to spend a ton of time working on that going forward because we don’t know how long Tre is gone.

Dukehk
01-14-2019, 09:30 PM
Tough loss but a perfect storm of negatives that allowed it to happen.

Cam our best shooter being out for the game. Then Tre getting injured basically right at the beginning. I'm praying its just a minor injury and they kept him out as a precaution.

Then of course the players who played today just couldn't hit a three point shot to save their lives. Not sure whats going on with Jack but it started in the last game where he basically was ice cold from 3 (one make?). Then I think syracuse did a real head job on him today on both ends. Culminating in battle putting him on the floor with a crossover. Just seems like Jack is either running on fumes or his head is gone. Needs to sort it out by the next game.

Alex O'Connell hit some good shots but also made some real boneheaded plays. He was also a bit of a defensive liability out there and cuse was targeting him a bit on that end. Needs to continue to bulk up and change his body if he is to take it to the next level.

All in all, its not a bad loss. Better we have these problems now because I'm 100% certain coach K and the staff will ensure they don't ever play like this again come the tournament. Im talking about the role players going cold and not stepping up.

Right now Im just praying we stay healthy and that Tre comes back fully fit.

kAzE
01-14-2019, 09:30 PM
Sucks to lose the most important player on the team, but even still, they had to hit about 15 insanely tough shots and a 75 footer to edge us in OT . . .

O'Connell stepped up, but he wasn't ready to play that many minutes in this kind of game. Those turnovers down the stretch were tough.

Jack had the game from Hell. It was agonizing to watch. I don't know if he was just tired or all the missed shots got in his head, but he was really off his game on defense and on the boards in the 2nd half.

Tre, please be okay.

YmoBeThere
01-14-2019, 09:30 PM
Get better soon Tre!

Burn the tape, on to the next one.

Not sure I would do that. This game demonstrated that an offense consisting of Jack and Alex tossing the ball back and forth to each other is indeed not an offense.

duke4ever19
01-14-2019, 09:30 PM
Watching the Texas vs. Kansas game and the announcers are talking about how Duke "got caught looking ahead to UVA" and "that's what you get when you have freshmen who have never played those kind of situations."

I guess no one bothered to tell them that we were down two starters.

Dukehky
01-14-2019, 09:30 PM
Missing 2 starters with no chance to actually practice with the team you actually have available, to boot. They ran out of gas at the end. The short turnaround combined with the unplanned short bench did us in. We play that team again at full strength, we beat them double digits.

We have the top two picks in the draft on this team...

1991 duke law
01-14-2019, 09:31 PM
No one will ever say that Jack White gives up. Some may say that after seven or eight misses, he should have given up.

At the end of the day, all that really matters here is whether Tre is ok. It is no understatement to say that this team will not have a chance at a championship without him.

jv001
01-14-2019, 09:31 PM
Damn that 80 foot prayer

And that banked in 3 from the coaches baby boy. GoDuke!

arnie
01-14-2019, 09:31 PM
These are the games that keep us from winning regular season. UVA plays great D regardless of their lineup. In the big picture, losing tonite doesn’t matter, just hard to go 15-3 or so losing at home to an average ACC team.

fuse
01-14-2019, 09:31 PM
The maxim has been lose a game for every freshman you start. Two down, two to go.

Massive good vibes to Tre. Hoping there is good news to hear.

ndkjr70
01-14-2019, 09:32 PM
It’s also easy to say “oh well move on” but with a loss like this and Tre possibly out for the game against UVA — plus our ungodly ACC schedule — it looks like we are making a beeline towards yet another year where we don’t win the ACC.

Getting tired of second place finishes.

WiJoe
01-14-2019, 09:32 PM
good luck finding a "tape."

wavedukefan70s
01-14-2019, 09:32 PM
Shameful officiating in the second half. For about 10 minutes we attacked the basket and got mauled with not a single whistle. Then, understandably enough, we gave up on going inside and just clanked 3s.

That said, not much to take from a game sans Tre and Cam, other than to appreciate that those guys are really good. Painful to lose an OT game where the other team hit a banked in and a 3/4 court three. Ugh.

Chukwu gets 4 fouls in first half none the rest of the way.if we could a hit a few more 3's we win.hard to go inside when your getting hammered. I just hope jones is ok.

dukelion
01-14-2019, 09:32 PM
Wow.....what a game.

I know some folks will be pretty upset but all things considered things aren't that bad....depending on the status of Jones of course.

This was the classic trap game....quick turnaround after an emotional win, against a desperate team that plays a D that forces us to make threes.

Congrats to Syracuse....they played all out especially after that horrific start......and they just kept making shots....including from 80 feet.

Another good lesson for our guys....not terribly disappointed at all.

scottdude8
01-14-2019, 09:32 PM
We played with the team we had on the Canada tour for the last 40 minutes of the game. That team had a bit of a stagnant offense, especially against the 2-3 zone... which made sense missing our PG and best 3 point shooter. That’s exactly what happened tonight.

That said, the confluence of events that had to occur for us to lose this game was staggering. The reffing, the prayer shot, and the disproportionate shooting that has all been discussed here. Cam missing the game where his shooting was most needed is another. As much as home losses suck, and they really really do, we have to put this in context. If it takes all of that to beat this team, that says something positive.

WiJoe
01-14-2019, 09:33 PM
No way Chukwu should get 18 boards ... even against nobody in practice.

plus the 75-footer. plus buddy boy's banked 3. yuck.

BigZ
01-14-2019, 09:33 PM
Put asterisk and move on

dairedevil
01-14-2019, 09:33 PM
The commentators at the Kansas game are talking about the Duke loss.. said it was
.because they were looking ahead to VA. Seriously? Nothing about playing without two starters, just some inane statements about squeaking by FSU in their “ first true road game” . What a load of hoo ha.

This team didn’t give up. They didn’t always make the best pass or shooting decisions, but they fought hard to the end. Proud of the effort. There is a lot of basketball left to play, we are only halfway into January. Sending up some prayers for healing and health.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-14-2019, 09:34 PM
We played with the team we had on the Canada tour for the last 40 minutes of the game. That team had a bit of a stagnant offense, especially against the 2-3 zone... which made sense missing our PG and best 3 point shooter. That’s exactly what happened tonight.

That said, the confluence of events that had to occur for us to lose this game was staggering. The reffing, the prayer shot, and the disproportionate shooting that has all been discussed here. Cam missing the game where his shooting was most needed is another. As much as home losses suck, and they really really do, we have to put this in context. If it takes all of that to beat this team, that says something positive.

And there's one team from tonight's game headed to the NIT....and it's not Duke. I can't wait for Cuse's loss to WF.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-14-2019, 09:36 PM
Watching the Texas vs. Kansas game and the announcers are talking about how Duke "got caught looking ahead to UVA" and "that's what you get when you have freshmen who have never played those kind of situations."

I guess no one bothered to tell them that we were down two starters.

...or that we were 48 hours from a hellish battle.....

Old Dukie
01-14-2019, 09:36 PM
Just lost at home to a team that got blown out by Georgia Tech. Bad.

Agree, bench development issues again this year. Why was White allowed to shoot that much?, esp. after last game, and when it was obvious he was throwing up bricks ALL NIGHT!

Dukehky
01-14-2019, 09:37 PM
At least Bolden looked pretty good. The rest sucked though. I hate Mike Eades.

WiJoe
01-14-2019, 09:37 PM
The commentators at the Kansas game are talking about the Duke loss.. said it was
.because they were looking ahead to VA. Seriously? Nothing about playing without two starters, just some inane statements about squeaking by FSU in their “ first true road game” . What a load of hoo ha.

you have the three stooges doing game: Bob Wischusen, Fran Fraschilla (bad rug) and Holly Rowe

richardjackson199
01-14-2019, 09:37 PM
Can KJ Maura just suit up and play point for us on Saturday?

Les Grossman
01-14-2019, 09:37 PM
His shoulder got bent in a way its not supposed to bend.
And how about the No Call on that play?

This team is going to struggle without a PG to pressure the ball coming up the floor.

Reddevil
01-14-2019, 09:37 PM
Syracuse benefitted from an extraordary set of events. They capitalized. Good on them. All that matters now is tre.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-14-2019, 09:37 PM
you have the three stooges doing game: Bob Wischusen, Fran Fraschilla (bad rug) and Holly Rowe

Wischusen is a total waste...IQ of maybe 45

dukelion
01-14-2019, 09:38 PM
We played with the team we had on the Canada tour for the last 40 minutes of the game. That team had a bit of a stagnant offense, especially against the 2-3 zone... which made sense missing our PG and best 3 point shooter. That’s exactly what happened tonight.

That said, the confluence of events that had to occur for us to lose this game was staggering. The reffing, the prayer shot, and the disproportionate shooting that has all been discussed here. Cam missing the game where his shooting was most needed is another. As much as home losses suck, and they really really do, we have to put this in context. If it takes all of that to beat this team, that says something positive.

Agree

All that and we still almost pulled it out. Similar to the Gonzaga game, a team will have to play out of their minds and get a little luck to beat us.

And yeah it might costs us the reg season crown....but I just don't want to lose to a 16 seed the first weekend.

jv001
01-14-2019, 09:38 PM
The big positive I took from the game was Bolden was a man out on the court tonight. What an improvement since his freshmen year. Alex also played well but seemed to be running on fumes at the end of the game, but so was Jack. I now see why Robinson doesn't play much. Was lost on defense when he came in. Like so many have said, the most important thing is Tre is not badly injured. GoDuke!

WiJoe
01-14-2019, 09:38 PM
Can KJ Maura just suit up and play point for us on Saturday?

that, too, is a joke. paying to get that guy a seat with the crazies. Coach K should have put a stop to that.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-14-2019, 09:38 PM
Agree, bench development issues again this year. Why was White allowed to shoot that much?, esp. after last game, and when it was obvious he was throwing up bricks ALL NIGHT!

THE SAME REASON CAM WAS ALLOWED TO CONTINUE TO SHOOT. is it that you can't learn, or you WON'T learn????

jsx
01-14-2019, 09:39 PM
The commentators at the Kansas game are talking about the Duke loss.. said it was
.because they were looking ahead to VA. Seriously? Nothing about playing without two starters, just some inane statements about squeaking by FSU in their “ first true road game” . What a load of hoo ha.

This team didn’t give up. They didn’t always make the best pass or shooting decisions, but they fought hard to the end. Proud of the effort. There is a lot of basketball left to play, we are only halfway into January. Sending up some prayers for healing and health.

I was annoyed by that too. Spoken like guys who saw the final score and none of the game!

peterjswift
01-14-2019, 09:40 PM
As someone who is currently in his 10th week of recovery from shoulder surgery after an acute injury....I am really hoping I’m not able to provide any insight in upcoming vigil threads, and that Tre just has a strain.


Shoulder injuries are awful.

djp10
01-14-2019, 09:40 PM
This game was 100% karma for the "Jack White over Cam Reddish" thread.
came here to say this

flyingdutchdevil
01-14-2019, 09:41 PM
Syracuse benefitted from an extraordary set of events. They capitalized. Good on them. All that matters now is tre.

Thank god. This is the post that makes the most sense.

Agreed on Cuse. They capitalized. Injuries happen. Sickness happens. Going 0-10 happens. And Cuse capitalized.

DUKIE V(A)
01-14-2019, 09:41 PM
Games like this remind you how difficult it is to win and how lucky we are as fans. So many variables: injuries/illness, hot shooting, cold shooting, the way the refs call the game, foul trouble, lucky bounces, etc. Nothing should be taken for granted against any team.

For those getting on Jack White, just stop. It’s uncalled for — he missed some shots today — so what. We need him to keep shooting. He is quality shooter who had a tough shooting night. He is a critical part of the team, and we are not nearly as good without him.

ndkjr70
01-14-2019, 09:41 PM
THE SAME REASON CAM WAS ALLOWED TO CONTINUE TO SHOOT. is it that you can't learn, or you WON'T learn????

PERHAPS THEY SHOULD HAVE MADE SOME ATTEMPT AT TAKING A SHOT INSIDE THAT BLUE ARCH THINGY, SINCE THEY MISSED PRACTICALLY ALL OF THEM AND SYRACUSE WAS IN FOUL TROUBLE EIGHT MINUTES INTO THE GAME. Is it that they can’t learn, or they WON’T learn????????????????????

dyedwab
01-14-2019, 09:41 PM
I'm pretty angry that we lost and I don't intend to be a good sport about it.

Here's the thing. We lost two starters, which meant a third started played out of position and 3 other players played significantly more minutes then they are used to. Everyone was tired.

Syracuse is a TERRIBLE shooting team, but they hit EVERYTHING. A falling away three at the end of a shot clock. A banked three. A 70-footer. A three with a guy in his face when he couldn't possibly have seen the basket.

And a final point. I realize we aren't supposed to say this because it's "terping". But Zion Williamson is officiated differently then every other player in college basketball. Bilas (who was god-awful) obliquely referred to as "Coach K think..." But he is fouled - hard - every time he moves toward the basket. A friend pointed this out to me - prior to tonight, in his last 39 minutes of ACC play (Wake and FSU) Zion took 1 FT. yes. 1 FT. That defies logic. Opposing defenses are keying a strategy of "hammer Zion, because they aren't gonna call it". It's a problem.

Anyway, I hate Syracuse, I assume they'll lose a whole lot of games, won't play anywhere close to how they played tonight, and they will miss the tournament.

Saratoga2
01-14-2019, 09:43 PM
First of all, I hope that Tre's injury isn't serious enough to sideline him for a long period. It appears that it was his right shoulder. Having him out of the game means our on the ball pressure was greatly reduced, plus RJ had to be entrusted with bringing the ball up which cut down on his off the ball scorinng opportunities and our fast break chances.


Our main scoring opportunities came from getting Zion the ball and he did a great job when he got it but that can be somewhat stopped. Bolden also had some opportunities and he did play well although takes the ball to the floor before going up sometimes. Thats just his habit and results in less clean looks but it is what it is.

Alex was a possibility to make some threes and he did. His problem is he wouldn't take the shot as often as he got open, preferring to get rid of it to Williamson, Barret or White. He sometimes wasn't smart about his passing and telegraphed them for turnover possibly because he was very reluctant to shoot. Tonight, Jack couldn't hit anything, maybe he was so fatigued that his shot wasn't there.

We definitiely missed the contribution of Cam. Another long and good defender would have mattered and Jack could have gotten a rest. Jack just couldn't stay in front of his man tonight.

All in all, this loss was not that dire for us unless it results in Tre being out for an extended period.

WiJoe
01-14-2019, 09:43 PM
PERHAPS THEY SHOULD HAVE MADE SOME ATTEMPT AT TAKING A SHOT INSIDE THAT BLUE ARCH THINGY, SINCE THEY MISSED PRACTICALLY ALL OF THEM AND SYRACUSE WAS IN FOUL TROUBLE EIGHT MINUTES INTO THE GAME. Is it that they can’t learn, or they WON’T learn????????????????????

glad to see you were able to figure out how to get out of CAPS

Old Dukie
01-14-2019, 09:43 PM
THE SAME REASON CAM WAS ALLOWED TO CONTINUE TO SHOOT. is it that you can't learn, or you WON'T learn????

Can't learn when the answers are so obvious.....use the bench when non-performance issues arise!

InSpades
01-14-2019, 09:44 PM
Seriously... I can't even w/ the Cam and Tre out excuse. Is that why we shot 43 3 pointers and made 9 of them? We have the #1 and #2 pick in next year's NBA draft. Teams would kill to have the talent that Duke had out on the floor.

We just played terribly. 9 for 43. Alex was 4 of 8. The rest of them were 5 of 35. RJ took 17 3s.

That loss was embarrassing.

devildeac
01-14-2019, 09:44 PM
PERHAPS THEY SHOULD HAVE MADE SOME ATTEMPT AT TAKING A SHOT INSIDE THAT BLUE ARCH THINGY, SINCE THEY MISSED PRACTICALLY ALL OF THEM AND SYRACUSE WAS IN FOUL TROUBLE EIGHT MINUTES INTO THE GAME. Is it that they can’t learn, or they WON’T learn????????????????????

Not when being mugged repeatedly gets ignored and called inconsistently and rarely.

DBGoins
01-14-2019, 09:45 PM
Can’t rewatch the last 40 sec but wasn’t it a little odd, we had a timeout which I thought coach would have called after we got the rebound and didn’t get something quick?

Anyone have the same thoughts?

cruxer
01-14-2019, 09:46 PM
We have the top two picks in the draft on this team...

So what? Neither of them is a point guard and RJ having to do that tonight largely took him out of his play-making role. The draft is about potential, but even Lebron struggled to win when they lost Kyrie in the finals.

-c

flyingdutchdevil
01-14-2019, 09:47 PM
Seriously... I can't even w/ the Cam and Tre out excuse. Is that why we shot 43 3 pointers and made 9 of them? We have the #1 and #2 pick in next year's NBA draft. Teams would kill to have the talent that Duke had out on the floor.

We just played terribly. 9 for 43. Alex was 4 of 8. The rest of them were 5 of 35. RJ took 17 3s.

That loss was embarrassing.

I don’t think it was embarrassing. I agree our coaching staff got out coached. I agree we shot waaaay too many threes. But Cuse played great denial D against Zion (ie our only internal threat). And they intentionally left our streaky shooters open on the perimeter (RJ, White, Zion, Goldwire).

devildeac
01-14-2019, 09:47 PM
I'm pretty angry that we lost and I don't intend to be a good sport about it.

Here's the thing. We lost two starters, which meant a third started played out of position and 3 other players played significantly more minutes then they are used to. Everyone was tired.

Syracuse is a TERRIBLE shooting team, but they hit EVERYTHING. A falling away three at the end of a shot clock. A banked three. A 70-footer. A three with a guy in his face when he couldn't possibly have seen the basket.

And a final point. I realize we aren't supposed to say this because it's "terping". But Zion Williamson is officiated differently then every other player in college basketball. Bilas (who was god-awful) obliquely referred to as "Coach K think..." But he is fouled - hard - every time he moves toward the basket. A friend pointed this out to me - prior to tonight, in his last 39 minutes of ACC play (Wake and FSU) Zion took 1 FT. yes. 1 FT. That defies logic. Opposing defenses are keying a strategy of "hammer Zion, because they aren't gonna call it". It's a problem.

Anyway, I hate Syracuse, I assume they'll lose a whole lot of games, won't play anywhere close to how they played tonight, and they will miss the tournament.

And some folks wonder why we didn't go inside more. 1FT? That's unfreaking believable.

fuse
01-14-2019, 09:49 PM
Just going to say the DBR community is better than what is being shown on this thread. Calling out players, “shouting” at each other online, is over the top.
If you are embarrassed by the team or the loss, that’s your issue to sort out.

Be here to be kind, support the players, and the team.
Just because you think it, doesn’t mean you need to post it on DBR.

scottdude8
01-14-2019, 09:49 PM
The way that this board has turned on guys who we were in love with days ago is very discouraging. This game was a statistical abnormality in a lot of senses, including Jack White’s shooting, not to mention the team in general. The 2-3 zone is designed to take away drives to the basket. You have to take and make 3s to open up those lanes. A middle school basketball coach knows that. Very few of the shots we took were contested, bad shots, or shots taken by non-shooters. I’d bet money Coach K was telling the team, including Jack, to keep shooting. They just didn’t go in. Meanwhile, a horrible three point shooting team couldn’t miss.

Again, if you’re at all mathematically inclined spent a moment thinking about how unlikely it is for a 30+% 3 point shooter to go 0-10 in a game that a team that shoots under 30% from 3 as a whole shoots 44%. It’s an outlier. Stack that on top of the half a dozen other bad breaks we got and you get a tough loss. It shouldn’t cause us the panic, let alone start bashing our captain who gives his heart and soul for this team.

Breathe before you post people. We’re all better than some of this.

Dukehky
01-14-2019, 09:49 PM
Once again, thanks to a set of circumstances, UVA is going to win the regular season again. They either have a cupcake of a schedule or our players get hurt. Oh well, that's the least important of the season championships.

AtlDuke72
01-14-2019, 09:49 PM
Can't learn when the answers are so obvious....use the bench when non-performance issues arise!

Your insightful comments have convinc d me - Duke definitely needs a new coach.

Dukehk
01-14-2019, 09:50 PM
How good is Zion Williamson though?

I think he just broke the Freshman record for points in a game..Yup. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

Against a zone no less. Going up against a 7'2 guy who was allowed to maul him all game.

dukelifer
01-14-2019, 09:50 PM
Syracuse benefitted from an extraordary set of events. They capitalized. Good on them. All that matters now is tre.

This game means little because it is not like Cuse figured out something. Duke was down key players- guys were distracted when Jones went into the locker room and White picked a bad night to go 0-fer from three. The more serious issue is that Jones has a mutiday or more likely multiweek recovery ahead and we have no idea if Cam's sickness is isolated or will spread to the team. This stuff happens in a season. We will see what Saturday brings. Life is tough in the ACC.

flyingdutchdevil
01-14-2019, 09:51 PM
Once again, thanks to a set of circumstances, UVA is going to win the league again. They either have a cupcake of a schedule or our players get hurt.

And last year, when we were healthy and had a fairly easy schedule and UVA still won, what was that?

UVA will likely win it. And it’s not because of scheduling nor a set of circumstances.

WiJoe
01-14-2019, 09:51 PM
Once again, thanks to a set of circumstances, UVA is going to win the regular season again. They either have a cupcake of a schedule or our players get hurt. Oh well, that's the least important of the season championships.

And what did Virginia winning the ACC regular AND tournament titles get them?

cruxer
01-14-2019, 09:51 PM
I don't get the "outcoached" thing. Syracuse is a bad 3 point shooting team that really couldn't miss even very contested shots tonight. Boeheim is a genius! K has always, for better or worse, encouraged his players not to hesitate to shoot the 3 if they are open. I'm not sure how a coach completely changes an offensive philosophy for 1 game. I guess that makes him an idiot when his team loses but also a genius if his team wins?

-c

Devilwin
01-14-2019, 09:52 PM
PERHAPS THEY SHOULD HAVE MADE SOME ATTEMPT AT TAKING A SHOT INSIDE THAT BLUE ARCH THINGY, SINCE THEY MISSED PRACTICALLY ALL OF THEM AND SYRACUSE WAS IN FOUL TROUBLE EIGHT MINUTES INTO THE GAME. Is it that they can’t learn, or they WON’T learn????????????????????

And the truth shall set you free...Face it. Syrapuke played out of their heads and we did some very dumb things..Too many 3s from guys that were not hitting..Poor defense on the perimeter. Turnovers of the unforced variety...
AOC was good as our most dependable outside threat...

Now no more of this "We cannot beat UVA without Tre" talk. We can, and we will!
But I of course want him healthy...

richardjackson199
01-14-2019, 09:53 PM
Seriously... I can't even w/ the Cam and Tre out excuse. Is that why we shot 43 3 pointers and made 9 of them? We have the #1 and #2 pick in next year's NBA draft. Teams would kill to have the talent that Duke had out on the floor.

We just played terribly. 9 for 43. Alex was 4 of 8. The rest of them were 5 of 35. RJ took 17 3s.

That loss was embarrassing.

Maybe that would have been a good time to burn Joey Baker's redshirt. If we were going to hoist 3's anyway, might as well put a healthy guy out there who can drain them and give our guys a rest.

I know I know. I just hate losing conference games at home to bad teams. Asterisk or no asterisk, it's an L in Cameron to Syracuse. 3-1 in ACC with UVA coming to town and Tre Jones injured. This was devastating. :(

Billy Dat
01-14-2019, 09:54 PM
PERHAPS THEY SHOULD HAVE MADE SOME ATTEMPT AT TAKING A SHOT INSIDE THAT BLUE ARCH THINGY, SINCE THEY MISSED PRACTICALLY ALL OF THEM AND SYRACUSE WAS IN FOUL TROUBLE EIGHT MINUTES INTO THE GAME. Is it that they can’t learn, or they WON’T learn????????????????????

We weren’t getting calls inside, and many of our forays into the lane led to easy transition buckets. We didn’t take many bad 3s, we just missed. Jack White had an awful game, but I kept thinking he’d hit the next one.

It sucks to lose, but I have major respect and admiration for the guys who fought out there tonight,on short rest, after a war on Saturday in Tally. This is especially true of RJ who played all game both games, I think.

Yes, we have 2 projected top 2 picks in the game, do we expect them to just be able to adjust to playing out of position and do whatever they want against a zone that they never see? As sometimes happens, when Duke is the other team, players rise up and play out of their minds...most of the Cuse guys save for the spindly center played way over their heads. Still and all, if Zion hits a FT (on a phantom call by the way), we might win. We almost won despite it all.

It IS all about Tre. His health is all that matters right now.

WHOneedsSOX
01-14-2019, 09:54 PM
Tre out hurts. Cam out hurts. Jack White was, uh, that.

How the hell didn’t coach K tell them to stop heaving threes? We stink at shooting threes. They came into the second half in dire foul trouble and we just heaved it over and over and over and over.

That was a humiliating effort by the coaching staff. We’ll lose by thirty to UVA if Tre is out.

Pretty hard to score and not shoot 3s when all 5 defenders have a foot in the key. You have to shoot and have to make it to loosen up the D. Even 1 or 2 makes, makes the defense have to respect you.

Acymetric
01-14-2019, 09:54 PM
Seriously... I can't even w/ the Cam and Tre out excuse. Is that why we shot 43 3 pointers and made 9 of them? We have the #1 and #2 pick in next year's NBA draft. Teams would kill to have the talent that Duke had out on the floor.

We just played terribly. 9 for 43. Alex was 4 of 8. The rest of them were 5 of 35. RJ took 17 3s.

That loss was embarrassing.


I don’t think it was embarrassing. I agree our coaching staff got out coached. I agree we shot waaaay too many threes. But Cuse played great denial D against Zion (ie our only internal threat). And they intentionally left our streaky shooters open on the perimeter (RJ, White, Zion, Goldwire).

Yeah, embarrassing is a bit much. That said, even with two starters out, this was a bad loss. The sky isn't falling, this isn't an inherently flawed team, but that was a bad loss to a bad team at home (had it happend @Syracuse it would be a little different). I continue to question not using Goldwire at the point more in the 2nd half to allow Barrett to play off ball, but in K we trust.

On to the next one, let's get healthy (fingers crossed for Tre) and hopefully remember that we are not a 3 point shooting team going forward.

dukelifer
01-14-2019, 09:55 PM
I don't get the "outcoached" thing. Syracuse is a bad 3 point shooting team that really couldn't miss even very contested shots tonight. Boeheim is a genius! K has always, for better or worse, encouraged his players not to hesitate to shoot the 3 if they are open. I'm not sure how a coach completely changes an offensive philosophy for 1 game. I guess that makes him an idiot when his team loses but also a genius if his team wins?

-c

Unfortunately, K encourages his pt guards to dive for loose balls. They are way too valuable- like QBs in the NFL. Need to keep Jones in bubble wrap. Duke had a TON of wide open looks- just did not hit them.

flyingdutchdevil
01-14-2019, 09:56 PM
Maybe that would have been a good time to burn Joey Baker's redshirt. If we were going to hoist 3's anyway, might as well put a healthy guy out there who can drain them and give our guys a rest.

I know I know. I just hate losing conference games at home to bad teams. Asterisk or no asterisk, it's an L in Cameron to Syracuse. 3-1 in ACC with UVA coming to town and Tre Jones injured. This was devastating. :(

I’d rather come off a loss and face UVA at home than a win (cus Duke plays better angry). But I’d rather have a health Tre over anything else.

That injury....sigh.

Get well Tre!!!!!

jv001
01-14-2019, 09:56 PM
Not when being mugged repeatedly gets ignored and called inconsistently and rarely.

I wish Zion got the calls from the refs that Hanstravel received. Oh, wait there's that Swofford guy. GoDuke!

CameronDuke
01-14-2019, 09:57 PM
Coach K says Tre Jones has a shoulder sprain and was in a ton of pain. No break. They don't know how long he will be out yet.

A game that started so promising coming off such an emotional road win and then Cam gets sick and Duke loses Tre for while. Such a tough night for the team and program. A huge bump in the road.

Old Dukie
01-14-2019, 09:57 PM
I don’t think it was embarrassing. I agree our coaching staff got out coached. I agree we shot waaaay too many threes. But Cuse played great denial D against Zion (ie our only internal threat). And they intentionally left our streaky shooters open on the perimeter (RJ, White, Zion, Goldwire).

It will happen again, folks - count on it! Until Duke coaches start sitting non-performers more, and start using bench players when needed, we will surely be beaten. It's a team game...let others develop and contribute as necessary.

ndkjr70
01-14-2019, 09:57 PM
And what did Virginia winning the ACC regular AND tournament titles get them?

Two more banners in the rafters than we got last year?

dukelifer
01-14-2019, 09:57 PM
I don’t think it was embarrassing. I agree our coaching staff got out coached. I agree we shot waaaay too many threes. But Cuse played great denial D against Zion (ie our only internal threat). And they intentionally left our streaky shooters open on the perimeter (RJ, White, Zion, Goldwire).

Duke missed too many threes. The shots were wide open and the right shot to take.

Furniture
01-14-2019, 09:58 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/dukebasketball/status/1085006910452060160

K

HereBeforeCoachK
01-14-2019, 09:58 PM
Two more banners in the rafters than we got last year?

who gives a flying ......."

UVa is not considered the best program in the nation in case your'e interested.

WiJoe
01-14-2019, 09:58 PM
Two more banners in the rafters than we got last year?

the ONLY banner that matters is national championships. Do they put spotlights on those dozens of other banners?

Do they?

TNTDevil
01-14-2019, 09:59 PM
Gotta give credit to Cuse. They challenged our outside shooting, and it paid off for them. Cuse shot above their average. Two of our starters not playing. The stars were in perfect alignment for this upset.

Get better Cam and Tre. Shake it off, Jack.This game had all the ingredients to bake a Duke loss.

Poor outside shooting- Check
Inconsistent officiating- Check
One (or more) opposing players having a career night- Check

I'm seriously impressed with Syracuse. Went all "Coach K" on her with the "Syracuse deserved to win."

Of course, they won't play this good again for the remainder of the season.

Next play.

SCMatt33
01-14-2019, 09:59 PM
The way that this board has turned on guys who we were in love with days ago is very discouraging. This game was a statistical abnormality in a lot of senses, including Jack White’s shooting, not to mention the team in general. The 2-3 zone is designed to take away drives to the basket. You have to take and make 3s to open up those lanes. A middle school basketball coach knows that. Very few of the shots we took were contested, bad shots, or shots taken by non-shooters. I’d bet money Coach K was telling the team, including Jack, to keep shooting. They just didn’t go in. Meanwhile, a horrible three point shooting team couldn’t miss.

Again, if you’re at all mathematically inclined spent a moment thinking about how unlikely it is for a 30+% 3 point shooter to go 0-10 in a game that a team that shoots under 30% from 3 as a whole shoots 44%. It’s an outlier. Stack that on top of the half a dozen other bad breaks we got and you get a tough loss. It shouldn’t cause us the panic, let alone start bashing our captain who gives his heart and soul for this team.

Breathe before you post people. We’re all better than some of this.

Post game threads are always going o be for venting. But that aside, this was not simply a matter of an outlier in shooting (at least on Duke's end) not all threes are created equal and Duke took barely any good threes all night. Out of 43 of em, there were maybe 10 at most that were either open in transition or caught from a pass inside the arc where you catch it in the shooting pocket and are facing the basket without having to turn your body. For the guys on the floor tonight, catch turn and shoot is not a good shot. That doesn't mean they won't ever improve or have better days, but make no mistake, it wasn't a matter of a bad shooting night, it was bad offense, especially in the last 12 minutes of regulation and OT. Part of that is guys we're gassed. Zion and Marques/Javin did nothing but stand on the block and hold their hands up for a pass. No one set screens, no one made cuts. It would also be a disservice to put it all on the guys launching those shots, but if you were to repeat that last 17 minutes of offense again, you'd be foolish to expect better results because you think the shooting was an outlier.

dyedwab
01-14-2019, 10:00 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/dukebasketball/status/1085006910452060160

K

I'm so frustrated.

jv001
01-14-2019, 10:01 PM
Yeah, embarrassing is a bit much. That said, even with two starters out, this was a bad loss. The sky isn't falling, this isn't an inherently flawed team, but that was a bad loss to a bad team at home (had it happend @Syracuse it would be a little different). I continue to question not using Goldwire at the point more in the 2nd half to allow Barrett to play off ball, but in K we trust.

On to the next one, let's get healthy (fingers crossed for Tre) and hopefully remember that we are not a 3 point shooting team going forward.

Goldwire played horribly in the first half. His three point shooting is non-existent for the year. I see why some knowledgeable posters said Coach K would not go with Goldy as our point guard next season. GoDuke!

UrinalCake
01-14-2019, 10:01 PM
For everyone whining about us shooting too many threes - Syracuse knew we basically had two scorers in the whole game and no playmaker. They packed it in and left everyone not named Barrett open on the perimeter. This prevented the entry passes and limited the driving lanes. It's not like we could have just chosen to get the ball inside but decided not to because Coach K is an idiot.

The whole team was gassed and we had no one left to turn to on the bench. The team had no time to adjust to playing without Tre, on top of not having Cam. It sucks to lose but our guys played their hearts out. Barrett played 45 minutes and Williamson played 44. O'Connell and Bolden played 34 each and acquitted themselves well.

Old Dukie
01-14-2019, 10:02 PM
Unfortunately, K encourages his pt guards to dive for loose balls. They are way too valuable- like QBs in the NFL. Need to keep Jones in bubble wrap. Duke had a TON of wide open looks- just did not hit them.

Every coach encourages players to dive....that's how to really play the game. Unfortunately, developing a backup isn't in the cards for these coaches.

Dukehky
01-14-2019, 10:02 PM
It will happen again, folks - count on it! Until Duke coaches start sitting non-performers more, and start using bench players when needed, we will surely be beaten. It's a team game...let others develop and contribute as necessary.

Yeah! Play Justin Robinson! That worked out well in the two possessions he was in on defense!


Seriously, what the hell are you talking about? What bench players did you want to play? We played everyone who could hope to play meaningful minutes in an ACC game.

This is the nonsense.

heyman25
01-14-2019, 10:02 PM
Gotta give credit to Cuse. They challenged our outside shooting, and it paid off for them. Cuse shot above their average. Two of our starters not playing. The stars were in perfect alignment for this upset.

Get better Cam and Tre. Shake it off, Jack.

We were not heaving 3's they were open look 3's.You could tell White was not happy. Barrett 8 for 30. Syracuse shot lights out.
Great effort from Zion and Marques. Alex O'Connell stepped up. He suffers from focus. Lazy pass got picked off for an easy layup. Goldwire and O'Connell will have to step up for a few games. Jones's injury is unknown,but that was a nasty collision.

golfinesquire
01-14-2019, 10:04 PM
Yeah, embarrassing is a bit much. That said, even with two starters out, this was a bad loss. The sky isn't falling, this isn't an inherently flawed team, but that was a bad loss to a bad team at home (had it happend @Syracuse it would be a little different). I continue to question not using Goldwire at the point more in the 2nd half to allow Barrett to play off ball, but in K we trust.

On to the next one, let's get healthy (fingers crossed for Tre) and hopefully remember that we are not a 3 point shooting team going forward.

So one of our stars is sick, the one irreplacable player gets hurt, Duke has to make it up on the fly against a tough defensive scheme, and we still take the team to overtime and this is embarrassing and getting outcoached? Really? Also, Goldwire did not show me anything that suggested he should have played more or initiated the offense.

Old Dukie
01-14-2019, 10:05 PM
For everyone whining about us shooting too many threes - Syracuse knew we basically had two scorers in the whole game and no playmaker. They packed it in and left everyone not named Barrett open on the perimeter. This prevented the entry passes and limited the driving lanes. It's not like we could have just chosen to get the ball inside but decided not to because Coach K is an idiot.

The whole team was gassed and we had no one left to turn to on the bench. The team had no time to adjust to playing without Tre, on top of not having Cam. It sucks to lose but our guys played their hearts out. Barrett played 45 minutes and Williamson played 44. O'Connell and Bolden played 34 each and acquitted themselves well.

Excuses, Excuses - they're for losers. Coaches cost us this game.

golfinesquire
01-14-2019, 10:05 PM
For everyone whining about us shooting too many threes - Syracuse knew we basically had two scorers in the whole game and no playmaker. They packed it in and left everyone not named Barrett open on the perimeter. This prevented the entry passes and limited the driving lanes. It's not like we could have just chosen to get the ball inside but decided not to because Coach K is an idiot.

The whole team was gassed and we had no one left to turn to on the bench. The team had no time to adjust to playing without Tre, on top of not having Cam. It sucks to lose but our guys played their hearts out. Barrett played 45 minutes and Williamson played 44. O'Connell and Bolden played 34 each and acquitted themselves well.

Amen.

cruxer
01-14-2019, 10:06 PM
I'm more concerned with Tre being out for a while than with the loss. He really is indispensable to this team. We'll likely take a few more L's without him than we would have with him, but assuming he can come back at the same level, we should be deeper and more versatile when he returns.

TNTDevil
01-14-2019, 10:08 PM
Two more banners in the rafters than we got last year?Those banners and $3.15 will get you a tall Cappuccino at Starbucks.

dukelifer
01-14-2019, 10:09 PM
Every coach encourages players to dive...that's how to really play the game. Unfortunately, developing a backup isn't in the cards for these coaches.

My statement was intended as a joke

Old Dukie
01-14-2019, 10:09 PM
And the truth shall set you free...Face it. Syrapuke played out of their heads and we did some very dumb things..Too many 3s from guys that were not hitting..Poor defense on the perimeter. Turnovers of the unforced variety...
AOC was good as our most dependable outside threat...

Now no more of this "We cannot beat UVA without Tre" talk. We can, and we will!
But I of course want him healthy...

You are right....too many 3's from the wrong people....and that's a COACHING issue!

jv001
01-14-2019, 10:11 PM
I'm more concerned with Tre being out for a while than with the loss. He really is indispensable to this team. We'll likely take a few more L's without him than we would have with him, but assuming he can come back at the same level, we should be deeper and more versatile when he returns.

Without Tre we are an entirely different team. We lose more on defense than offense and we lose a lot on offense. Tre set the tone for our man2man defense. His pressure on the ball let our wings play the passing lanes which led to steals. The steals led to fast breaks and points on the scoreboard. Then on offense, he set up Zion on the block with some nifty passes. All I can say is get well fast Tre. GoDuke!

HereBeforeCoachK
01-14-2019, 10:11 PM
You are right...too many 3's from the wrong people...and that's a COACHING issue!

Yeah, our coaching is suspect.........


(we all know you're a troll now)

simplyluvin
01-14-2019, 10:11 PM
I'm more concerned with Tre being out for a while than with the loss. He really is indispensable to this team. We'll likely take a few more L's without him than we would have with him, but assuming he can come back at the same level, we should be deeper and more versatile when he returns.

Can’t agree more. Tre being out is way worse than this loss. Looking ahead, we have winnable games without Tre until we travel to UVA in early Feb.

Defense is the biggest concern, and now this harkens back to the last couple of years where our best scorer (RJ) now has to facilitate.

AtlDuke72
01-14-2019, 10:13 PM
Every coach encourages players to dive...that's how to really play the game. Unfortunately, developing a backup isn't in the cards for these coaches.

Getting more and more ridiculous. Please stop the whining. Did you notice that Reddish and Jones were out. ? Did you watch Goldwire in the first half?

WHOneedsSOX
01-14-2019, 10:13 PM
I'm more concerned with Tre being out for a while than with the loss. He really is indispensable to this team. We'll likely take a few more L's without him than we would have with him, but assuming he can come back at the same level, we should be deeper and more versatile when he returns.

I agree. He's a huge loss. Might be the most important guy on the team considering they really don't have a serviceable backup point guard. His loss is at least a 20 point swing against Duke. Obviously guys can step up and fill that gap but he's 8 points, 6 assists, and the key to the whole defense that's being lost. He makes everyone's job easier. It's like when Allen had to play PG his junior year. Takes away his scoring. Or if he does score, others aren't involved because he has the ball so much. That guy being Barrett this season. White gets more contested looks. Zion, Bolden, and Javin get fewer layups.

cruxer
01-14-2019, 10:14 PM
Yeah, our coaching is suspect.....


(we all know you're a troll now)

It seems the trolls are in full effect tonight. Lots of over-the-top negativity about this game. Like winning in the ACC is so easy you should just spot a team 2 starters at the last second.

dukelifer
01-14-2019, 10:14 PM
Agree, bench development issues again this year. Why was White allowed to shoot that much?, esp. after last game, and when it was obvious he was throwing up bricks ALL NIGHT!

Yet Bench players AOC and Bolden were excellent. So I think Duke has developed its bench well. Not sure that Vrank or Goldwire were going to be much use this game.

jv001
01-14-2019, 10:15 PM
You are right...too many 3's from the wrong people...and that's a COACHING issue!

Who should have been taking the threes? Coach K brought in Alex who shot the 3 ball well. Who else was on the bench that could better than the players that were playing. We're not a good shooting team from three anyway. I do wish we could have done a better job of getting the ball to Zion on the block late in the game. GoDuke!

Acymetric
01-14-2019, 10:15 PM
So one of our stars is sick, the one irreplacable player gets hurt, Duke has to make it up on the fly against a tough defensive scheme, and we still take the team to overtime and this is embarrassing and getting outcoached? Really? Also, Goldwire did not show me anything that suggested he should have played more or initiated the offense.

I literally started my post (responding to someone who said the game was embarrassing) by saying "Embarrassing is a bit much" as in "this was not an embarrassing loss". I also never said we got outcoached. Are you sure you meant to quote me and not someone else?

CameronDuke
01-14-2019, 10:15 PM
Whatever gameplan Coach K and his staff come up with Saturday for the game vs UVA and moving forward, I trust 100%. (And it's a good thing he is the one doing it because I've been stewing on it and with Tre going down, I can't think of one! Maybe Cam at the Point with Bolden starting at the 5?)

Coach K has adapted and worked his magic plenty of times before. Let's trust him and the staff on this one.

Sending healing prayers to Tre and Cam and best wishes for speedy recoveries.

Let's Go Duke.

jv001
01-14-2019, 10:18 PM
Maybe that one more day on the schedule might have led to Cam being ready to play. The short turnaround sure didn't help things. GoDuke!

phaedrus
01-14-2019, 10:18 PM
How couldn’t you lose confidence? That was the worst shooting performance I’ve seen in any level in my entire life.

Steph Curry, Kyle Korver, Ray Allen, Kevin Durant - just a few of the guys who have missed 10 or more three-pointers in a game while making zero.

Neither RJ nor Jack White are one of those guys. But three-point shooting is probabilistic (like everything else). You have to take good three-point shots when you get them against the Syracuse zone. For the most part, that's what they did. This game, they missed.

UrinalCake
01-14-2019, 10:18 PM
On offense, missing Tre means we not only lose most of our transition attack and most of our play making, but it means Barrett has to handle the ball rather than attacking from the wing which seriously reduces his effectiveness as well. Before the game I thought Cam would be the best guy to operate in the middle of the zone. Without him it should have been RJ, but then he couldn’t because we needed him at the point. So instead we had both Zion and Bolden trying to post up inside, and it’s too easy to defend against those entry passes.

DUKIE V(A)
01-14-2019, 10:18 PM
I think it’s interesting that folks think Syracuse is a “bad” team. They were a Sweet Sixteen team last year with most of the their talent back. I think that they have a unique, frustrating style of play that makes them very dangerous.

Anyway, it’s been my experience that teams missing a key player usually find a way to band together and play well the next game. That said, hoping Tre is back soon. He is an All-American caliber player — not in stats (this year) — but in the way he leads and impacts the game.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-14-2019, 10:18 PM
Whatever gameplan Coach K and his staff come up with Saturday for the game vs UVA and moving forward, I trust 100%. (And it's a good thing he is the one doing it because I've been stewing on it and with Tre going down, I can't think of one! Maybe Cam at the Point with Bolden starting at the 5?)

Coach K has adapted and worked his magic plenty of times before. Let's trust him and the staff on this one.

Sending healing prayers to Tre and Cam and best wishes for speedy recoveries.

Let's Go Duke.

Reminder: Boozer out, Sanders in, at UNC.....

Acymetric
01-14-2019, 10:19 PM
Goldwire played horribly in the first half. His three point shooting is non-existent for the year. I see why some knowledgeable posters said Coach K would not go with Goldy as our point guard next season. GoDuke!

Sure, Goldwire isn't a scoring threat. I do think he is more careful with the ball than AOC, better on defense, and having him in would have allowed RJ to play his usual position causing less disruption to the offense. I'm not saying 100% that this would have been the right way to go, just that it might have been worth additional consideration. I actually thought our offense looked fine with Goldwire in the game (and defense was better).

golfinesquire
01-14-2019, 10:20 PM
I literally started my post (responding to someone who said the game was embarrassing) by saying "Embarrassing is a bit much" as in "this was not an embarrassing loss". I also never said we got outcoached. Are you sure you meant to quote me and not someone else?

You’re right. I meant to quote the post you were responding to.

Mak P
01-14-2019, 10:21 PM
Any team that don't run a 2-3 zone against us moving forward with no Jones are idiots. That goes for UVA too

Neals384
01-14-2019, 10:22 PM
Just going to say the DBR community is better than what is being shown on this thread. Calling out players, “shouting” at each other online, is over the top.
If you are embarrassed by the team or the loss, that’s your issue to sort out.

Be here to be kind, support the players, and the team.
Just because you think it, doesn’t mean you need to post it on DBR.

This.


The way that this board has turned on guys who we were in love with days ago is very discouraging. This game was a statistical abnormality in a lot of senses, including Jack White’s shooting, not to mention the team in general. The 2-3 zone is designed to take away drives to the basket. You have to take and make 3s to open up those lanes. A middle school basketball coach knows that. Very few of the shots we took were contested, bad shots, or shots taken by non-shooters. I’d bet money Coach K was telling the team, including Jack, to keep shooting. They just didn’t go in. Meanwhile, a horrible three point shooting team couldn’t miss.

Again, if you’re at all mathematically inclined spent a moment thinking about how unlikely it is for a 30+% 3 point shooter to go 0-10 in a game that a team that shoots under 30% from 3 as a whole shoots 44%. It’s an outlier. Stack that on top of the half a dozen other bad breaks we got and you get a tough loss. It shouldn’t cause us the panic, let alone start bashing our captain who gives his heart and soul for this team.

Breathe before you post people. We’re all better than some of this.

And this.


Excuses, Excuses - they're for losers. Coaches cost us this game.

Please no more of this.

Not only did Zion break the freshman scoring record on just 20 shots, but Bolden (double - double) and AOC (16 points on 9 shots) stepped up big time. So we did have two guys go down, and two stepped up. It just wasn't enough. Sometimes you lose. Next play.

By the way, Florida state lost by 13 at Pitt tonight. They were 2 for 20 from 3 point land. Is there anyone on this board who would rather be a Seminole fan right now? I didn't think so. But I'll bet the handle "OldSeminolie" is available on their fansite.

simplyluvin
01-14-2019, 10:22 PM
On offense, missing Tre means we not only lose most of our transition attack and most of our play making, but it means Barrett has to handle the ball rather than attacking from the wing which seriously reduces his effectiveness as well. Before the game I thought Cam would be the best guy to operate in the middle of the zone. Without him it should have been RJ, but then he couldn’t because we needed him at the point. So instead we had both Zion and Bolden trying to post up inside, and it’s too easy to defend against those entry passes.

I do agree that this may be a repeat of Grayson at point last year but I do recall that Cam was viewed as a facilitator and possible backup point before the season started. Might be interesting to see a two faux PG mix that occasionally frees up RJ and Cam to play more to their game.

jv001
01-14-2019, 10:23 PM
Sure, Goldwire isn't a scoring threat. I do think he is more careful with the ball than AOC, better on defense, and having him in would have allowed RJ to play his usual position causing less disruption to the offense. I'm not saying 100% that this would have been the right way to go, just that it might have been worth additional consideration. I actually thought our offense looked fine with Goldwire in the game (and defense was better).

Cuse was giving Goldy the open 3 but not Alex. Even then Goldy couldn't make a 3. I would say that he might be a better defender than Alex but not in Tre's class. So that meant no pressure on the ball. I'm done for a while. It just seemed it was inevitable that we were going to lose when those two luck first half shots went in. The handwriting was on the wall. 2 players down and Jack couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. GoDuke!

Saratoga2
01-14-2019, 10:25 PM
Coach K is saying Tre will be out for a while. A shoulder sprain sounds like a time consuming injury from which to recover. I suppose some of our medically astute people could give an estimate. Weeks?

Alex does had decent shot form from deep. I don't know if he is encouraged to shoot and is reluctant or he just thinks he needs to get it to oe of our top players, but he seems to get very predictable with his passes. We needed him to do a little more tonight and that just didn't happen. He did some very good things but I believe he could do more.

Owen Meany
01-14-2019, 10:27 PM
Agree, bench development issues again this year. Why was White allowed to shoot that much?, esp. after last game, and when it was obvious he was throwing up bricks ALL NIGHT!


Can't learn when the answers are so obvious...use the bench when non-performance issues arise!


It will happen again, folks - count on it! Until Duke coaches start sitting non-performers more, and start using bench players when needed, we will surely be beaten. It's a team game...let others develop and contribute as necessary.


Every coach encourages players to dive...that's how to really play the game. Unfortunately, developing a backup isn't in the cards for these coaches.


Excuses, Excuses - they're for losers. Coaches cost us this game.


You are right...too many 3's from the wrong people...and that's a COACHING issue!

You're trying too hard.

TruBlu
01-14-2019, 10:28 PM
This.

But I'll bet the handle "OldSeminolie" is available on their fansite.

Best line of the night. Thanks.

(Could someone remind me how to ignore some random “old” poster?)

DUKIE V(A)
01-14-2019, 10:28 PM
By the way, Florida state lost by 13 at Pitt tonight. They were 2 for 20 from 3 point land. Is there anyone on this board who would rather be a Seminole fan right now? I didn't think so. But I'll bet the handle "OldSeminolie" is available on their fansite.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. Suggests that the game on Saturday took a lot out of both teams — emotionally and physically.

flyingdutchdevil
01-14-2019, 10:28 PM
Coach K is saying Tre will be out for a while. A shoulder sprain sounds like a time consuming injury from which to recover. I suppose some of our medically astute people could give an estimate. Weeks?

Alex does had decent shot form from deep. I don't know if he is encouraged to shoot and is reluctant or he just thinks he needs to get it to oe of our top players, but he seems to get very predictable with his passes. We needed him to do a little more tonight and that just didn't happen. He did some very good things but I believe he could do more.

Check out the vigil. Some really docs weighed in.

Mak P
01-14-2019, 10:28 PM
Excuses, Excuses - they're for losers. Coaches cost us this game.

I agree I mean its coaches fault they can't hit wide open 3s. its coaches fault 2 starters were out and RJ only made 8 shots

8

like i said if im other teams im running a 2-3. RJ going to have to beat me shooting long range

dukelifer
01-14-2019, 10:29 PM
Any team that don't run a 2-3 zone against us moving forward with no Jones are idiots. That goes for UVA too

I will take any team running a D they do not play often and well. Duke can play the zone- but Cuse plays it very well. UVa will do their thing. It will be interesting because I do not think Duke would have gotten many turnovers with Tre at the point. So perhaps Cam can save they day and create a mismatch. We will know on Saturday.

dukelifer
01-14-2019, 10:30 PM
I agree I mean its coaches fault they can't hit wide open 3s. its coaches fault 2 starters were out and RJ only made 8 shots

8

like i said if im other teams im running a 2-3. RJ going to have to beat me shooting long range

8 shots but many of his threes were good looks and almost in. His shot is not soft.

rsvman
01-14-2019, 10:35 PM
As others have said, the Tre Jones injury is the biggest story of the game.

Also, I don't know what is wrong with Cam, but his illness raises two other questions: 1) will he be well in time for the UVa game? and 2) will it be an illness that travels through the team, making others sick just in time for the UVa game? It he has a norovirus, for example, we might not be able to field a team on Saturday.

Those are my main concerns.

duke4ever19
01-14-2019, 10:35 PM
Goldwire played horribly in the first half. His three point shooting is non-existent for the year. I see why some knowledgeable posters said Coach K would not go with Goldy as our point guard next season. GoDuke!

In a way, I'm glad Goldwire got those minutes, because now we all know he'll get eaten alive vs. UVA. Hopefully Cam is better and can share duties with Barrett.

UrinalCake
01-14-2019, 10:35 PM
Whatever gameplan Coach K and his staff come up with Saturday for the game vs UVA and moving forward, I trust 100%. (And it's a good thing he is the one doing it because I've been stewing on it and with Tre going down, I can't think of one! Maybe Cam at the Point with Bolden starting at the 5?).

This is going to sound nuts, but... ZONE DEFENSE against UVA. Cam, RJ, Jack, Zion, Bolden. Pray to Jeebus that Jack rediscovers his shot and that Cam picks up where he left off.

It was way too easy for Syracuse to get Bolden switched onto their guards and then have open threes or drives to the basket. Way too easy. Without Tre spearheading the point of attack, our defense is so vulnerable.

WiJoe
01-14-2019, 10:36 PM
By the way, Florida state lost by 13 at Pitt tonight. They were 2 for 20 from 3 point land. Is there anyone on this board who would rather be a Seminole fan right now? I didn't think so. But I'll bet the handle "OldSeminolie" is available on their fansite.

Interesting. Suggests that the game on Saturday took a lot out of both teams — emotionally and physically.[/QUOTE]

this is what happens when you sell out to TV.

lotusland
01-14-2019, 10:36 PM
Zion played so hard on both ends trying to win the game that I felt bad for him that we came up short. I was way wrong asking for Barret to be the zone breaker over Zion. He made tough shot after tough shot and yeah he was fouled a lot. Good game from Bolden. He’s much stronger with the ball and rebounding than early in the season.

JGold was OK handling the ball and on defense but we could not afford to play 4 on 5 on offense and they quit guarding him after 2 ugly shots. Good game from AOC with a few lapses. His shot is money when he gets his shoulders squared.

Jack did a lot of Jack stuff but he’s not comfortable as a primary scorer. Duke needs to shoot well in the half court against Syracuse and we need to turn them over to get them in the open court. Instead we missed open 3s and lost Tre on defense.

I could care less about a regular season “championship”. We need Tre to get well soon and find a way to get a few wins in the meantime. Virginia is going to be tough.

scottdude8
01-14-2019, 10:38 PM
Some context: right around this time in 2015 a team with three freshman starters lost back to back games in blowout fashion to unranked teams, including one at home. Around this time in 2010 we lost two of four in upsets. This loss doesn’t mean the sky is falling (obviously with Tre’s injury a separate issue). It happens even to our best teams.

Everyone breathe.

lotusland
01-14-2019, 10:41 PM
This is going to sound nuts, but... ZONE DEFENSE against UVA. Cam, RJ, Jack, Zion, Bolden. Pray to Jeebus that Jack rediscovers his shot and that Cam picks up where he left off.

It was way too easy for Syracuse to get Bolden switched onto their guards and then have open threes or drives to the basket. Way too easy. Without Tre spearheading the point of attack, our defense is so vulnerable.

Duke was switching on every screen. I didn’t see Bolden get beat badly but once. Jack got torched a couple times on screens and by his man. I didn’t think the switching was the problem but the defense sure was better with Tre on the ball.

mkirsh
01-14-2019, 10:42 PM
Can't learn when the answers are so obvious....use the bench when non-performance issues arise!

We got 119 minutes from “bench” players tonight - White, Bolden, AOC, Goldwire normally are back ups. With 2 starters out who else could have played?

Bad shooting nights happen. James Harden went 1-17 from 3 in his last game and came back with 57 tonight. Hope our guys can bounce back as well.

Old Dukie
01-14-2019, 10:43 PM
8 shots but many of his threes were good looks and almost in. His shot is not soft.

RJ won't beat anyone if he's only shooting 3's all night.

Billy Dat
01-14-2019, 10:43 PM
Duke was switching on every screen. I didn’t see Bolden get beat badly but once. Jack got torched a couple times on screens and by his man. I didn’t think the switching was the problem but the defense sure was better with Tre on the ball.

I thought Bolden was solid on D tonight!

Reddevil
01-14-2019, 10:43 PM
Re re remember when Boozer went down and the team had to play unc at their place and won going away? That was awesome!
Will K and the staff pull an all nighter and come into practice tomorrow saying, "Here's how we are going to beat Virginia"?

Old Dukie
01-14-2019, 10:44 PM
In a way, I'm glad Goldwire got those minutes, because now we all know he'll get eaten alive vs. UVA. Hopefully Cam is better and can share duties with Barrett.

Yes, hopefully....but Cam is no PG.

jv001
01-14-2019, 10:46 PM
I thought Bolden was solid on D tonight!

I thought so as well. Some of the Cuse buckets came when Marques came over on help defense when Jack, Alex and RJ were beaten off the dribble. However the ball was passed to an open Cuse big that laid the ball in the basket. That's why Tre is so valuable to our defense. He disrupts the other teams offense. GoDuke!

uh_no
01-14-2019, 10:48 PM
nothing to be upset over. lose two starters at GAME TIME, including a PG and perhaps best on ball defender in the country, playing against the zone, get shot the bejeezus out of.

These guys were thrown out into the cold tonight....and they STILL took it to overtime. Hell of a game all around. Sure not everything was perfect....but I'm pretty certain they weren't planning to go out there without Tre and Cam...

It would have been a miracle if they had pulled that out. They ought to be proud of what they managed to do.

jv001
01-14-2019, 10:48 PM
Re re remember when Boozer went down and the team had to play unc at their place and won going away? That was awesome!
Will K and the staff pull an all nighter and come into practice tomorrow saying, "Here's how we are going to beat Virginia"?

Is there enough time for Coach K to get the team up to speed for an emergency zone defense? I sure didn't like how we defended the dribble drive or picknroll tonight. GoDuke!

Mak P
01-14-2019, 10:49 PM
8 shots but many of his threes were good looks and almost in. His shot is not soft.

Well we'll just agree to disagree. He's shooting 33% from 3 this season. If I'm a defense, I'm forcing him to shoot from long distance and take away his driving ability. Hopefully if teams do, Cam can step up

simplyluvin
01-14-2019, 10:51 PM
Sky may not be falling, but issue now is our seeding. As some posters have mentioned, it looks like we will add 4 to 5 losses assuming Tre is only out a month. We will be lucky to get a 2 seed. I don’t think we’ve won a natty not being a 1 seed, except for our first.

ncexnyc
01-14-2019, 10:52 PM
On Saturday the basketball gods smiled on us, today they thumbed their noses at us.

Don't like seeing so many excuses being made for the loss. Both teams played on Saturday and Syracuse had to travel to Durham. Yes, we lost two starters, but we still have by all accounts the #1 and #2 players in the upcoming NBA Draft. Dolezaj who started for Syracuse got only 12 minutes of play after meeting one Zion Williamson in the lane.

We had them in serious foul trouble and didn't take advantage of that situation. You keep taking the ball to the basket and force the refs to make the call. Blaming the refs doesn't cut it, as Boeheim wasn't exactly thrilled with the officiating either.

While many have whined about the quick turnaround, consider the fact that Coach K. now has plenty of time to work on life without Tre for at a minimum Saturday's game.

Old Dukie
01-14-2019, 10:52 PM
You're trying too hard.

Wish I could say same for coaching staff!

TruBlu
01-14-2019, 10:53 PM
Sky may not be falling, but issue now is our seeding. As some posters have mentioned, it looks like we will add 4 to 5 losses assuming Tre is only out a month. We will be lucky to get a 2 seed. I don’t think we’ve won a natty not being a 1 seed, except for our first.

Personally, I’m not conceding any games. I doubt that the team is either.

jv001
01-14-2019, 10:54 PM
On Saturday the basketball gods smiled on us, today they thumbed their noses at us.

Don't like seeing so many excuses being made for the loss. Both teams played on Saturday and Syracuse had to travel to Durham. Yes, we lost two starters, but we still have by all accounts the #1 and #2 players in the upcoming NBA Draft. Dolezaj who started for Syracuse got only 12 minutes of play after meeting one Zion Williamson in the lane.

We had them in serious foul trouble and didn't take advantage of that situation. You keep taking the ball to the basket and force the refs to make the call. Blaming the refs doesn't cut it, as Boeheim wasn't exactly thrilled with the officiating either.

While many have whined about the quick turnaround, consider the fact that Coach K. now has plenty of time to work on life without Tre for at a minimum Saturday's game.

Good points but maybe Cam would have been ready if the game was tomorrow night. Just saying. GoDuke!

dukelifer
01-14-2019, 10:55 PM
Well we'll just agree to disagree. He's shooting 33% from 3 this season. If I'm a defense, I'm forcing him to shoot from long distance and take away his driving ability. Hopefully if teams do, Cam can step up

Well no one on Duke is lighting it up from 3 on the season. Justin Robinson is 44% but then again. Alex and Cam are likely the best options from deep.

Old Dukie
01-14-2019, 10:56 PM
Is there enough time for Coach K to get the team up to speed for an emergency zone defense? I sure didn't like how we defended the dribble drive or picknroll tonight. GoDuke!

I said earlier in season that team needs to learn zone....don't always play it, but it sure comes in handy at many times.

jipops
01-14-2019, 10:57 PM
2 day turnaround after emotional road win
Lose 2nd best perimeter defender to illness
Lose best defender early to injury
White goes 0-10 from 3

Duke loses in OT. If just one of those was not a factor we would be looking at another W fo sho.

uh_no
01-14-2019, 10:57 PM
Yes, we lost two starters, but .....

Really? Is that all?

Point me any other team in the country that could lose their point guard and just another NBA first rounder at game time against a Jim Boeheim zone and take them to OT.

Duke lost more talent at game time than most teams have. You can't toss out two players and thus your entire game plan against syracuse and expect to have any great success. The fact it took them a 70' heave and 3 other ridiculous threes and jack putting up a doughnut to even take us to OT speaks tomes about the quality and character of this team.

flyingdutchdevil
01-14-2019, 10:58 PM
Personally, I’m not conceding any games. I doubt that the team is either.

Sure, but WF isn’t conceding any games either (and I understand how much better Duke sans-Tre is than WF).

Without Jones, we clearly aren’t #1 in the conference. Hell, we may even be below UNC! And with this league, ever game is a battle.

We know Tre is important to this team. My fear is that we don’t know how important he actually is until we no longer have him.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-14-2019, 10:59 PM
On Saturday the basketball gods smiled on us, today they thumbed their noses at us.

Don't like seeing so many excuses being made for the loss. Both teams played on Saturday and Syracuse had to travel to Durham. Yes, we lost two starters, but we still have by all accounts the #1 and #2 players in the upcoming NBA Draft. Dolezaj who started for Syracuse got only 12 minutes of play after meeting one Zion Williamson in the lane.

We had them in serious foul trouble and didn't take advantage of that situation. You keep taking the ball to the basket and force the refs to make the call. Blaming the refs doesn't cut it, as Boeheim wasn't exactly thrilled with the officiating either.

While many have whined about the quick turnaround, consider the fact that Coach K. now has plenty of time to work on life without Tre for at a minimum Saturday's game.

The travel burden was NOT equal. Duke had two flights in three days prior to the game. Flights take something out of the human body. Syracuse only had one flight....BEFORE the game. Their second flight is tonight. So the travel seems equal, but it was NOT equal. That said, this was all about the loss of Tre and Cam and Syracuse having their best game of the season. Make no mistake, they'll not come close to this performance again.

dukelifer
01-14-2019, 11:00 PM
Re re remember when Boozer went down and the team had to play unc at their place and won going away? That was awesome!
Will K and the staff pull an all nighter and come into practice tomorrow saying, "Here's how we are going to beat Virginia"?

Ah yes- the good ol days when you had experience up and down the line up. Not really much you can do with such a young squad but hope and pray they figure it out.

Mak P
01-14-2019, 11:02 PM
Really? Is that all?

Point me any other team in the country that could lose their point guard and just another NBA first rounder at game time against a Jim Boeheim zone and take them to OT.

Duke lost more talent at game time than most teams have. You can't toss out two players and thus your entire game plan against syracuse and expect to have any great success. The fact it took them a 70' heave and 3 other ridiculous threes and jack putting up a doughnut to even take us to OT speaks tomes about the quality and character of this team.

I agree, however injuries isn't the reason we lost today. We lost by 4 pts in OT, shooting 9-43 3pt. As a team we couldn't hit 10 3pt shots. Make your shots, WIDE OPEN shots and we win. That's just inexcusable to shoot that poorly at home

uh_no
01-14-2019, 11:03 PM
I agree, however injuries isn't the reason we lost today. We lost by 4 pts in OT, shooting 9-43 3pt. As a team we couldn't hit 10 3pt shots. Make your shots, WIDE OPEN shots and we win. That's just inexcusable to shoot that poorly at home

You can't isolate one reason why we lost. with those players back, maybe we don't need to take as many threes. maybe we generate just one more TO. who knows.

There's a million things that could have happened differently in an OT loss that would have swayed the game.

Furniture
01-14-2019, 11:06 PM
Duke had more blocks, more steals, more assists and less turnovers. On rebounds Duke were narrowly beaten. Hackacuse shot 44% from 3. Duke 21%. AOC got 50% of his threes (4 from 8).

Ima Facultiwyfe
01-14-2019, 11:07 PM
The only ones who didn't give it their all tonight were the crazies.. How sad. What a shame.
Love, Ima

Old Dukie
01-14-2019, 11:11 PM
Yeah! Play Justin Robinson! That worked out well in the two possessions he was in on defense!


Seriously, what the hell are you talking about? What bench players did you want to play? We played everyone who could hope to play meaningful minutes in an ACC game.

This is the nonsense.

You missed the whole point! Bench and player development is a must. Vrank was needed when SYR was throwing elbows and mugging Zion. Justin can shoot the three when Jack is off. Goldwire on the ball allows RJ to play HIS game.

Developing a bench is not nonsense!

weezie
01-14-2019, 11:12 PM
Ok so I'm behind the curve here but do we have Negative Nellies being poopers?
With Tre we win that game. Period.
It's not over, it's only January and K said after game, paraphrasing, just being Duke doesn't guarantee anything.
He was more concerned about the lack of chatter on switches.
It's all going to be ok folks. weezie would add play the shot clock not the game clock.
But if I see Mike Eades at the grocery store he's getting a cart into his shins.

Furniture
01-14-2019, 11:13 PM
Coach K: “I thought in the 2nd half we played winning basketball - our guys fought like crazy, our kids put their hearts on the floor in the 2nd half and overtime - there were just some missed shots.”

jipops
01-14-2019, 11:14 PM
I agree, however injuries isn't the reason we lost today. We lost by 4 pts in OT, shooting 9-43 3pt. As a team we couldn't hit 10 3pt shots. Make your shots, WIDE OPEN shots and we win. That's just inexcusable to shoot that poorly at home

Yea missing the two best perimeter defenders on the team had nothing to do with the loss.

uh_no
01-14-2019, 11:14 PM
Coach K: “I thought in the 2nd half we played winning basketball - our guys fought like crazy, our kids put their hearts on the floor in the 2nd half and overtime - there were just some missed shots.”

That says it all. kids played a hell of a game in a really bad situation.

weezie
01-14-2019, 11:15 PM
The only ones who didn't give it their all tonight were the crazies.. How sad. What a shame.
Love, Ima

Couldn't agree more. Spoiled, clueless babies.

weezie
01-14-2019, 11:20 PM
And I'd bet the house that each of our players on the floor, and off, thinks this game was lost because of their own performance. Every one feels responsible.
That's remarkable on a #1 team. No primas, no lazy jerks. No finger pointers.
It's K time.

devildeac
01-14-2019, 11:23 PM
Ok so I'm behind the curve here but do we have Negative Nellies being poopers?
With Tre we win that game. Period.
It's not over, it's only January and K said after game, paraphrasing, just being Duke doesn't guarantee anything.
He was more concerned about the lack of chatter on switches.
It's all going to be ok folks. weezie would add play the shot clock not the game clock.
But if I see Mike Eades at the grocery store he's getting a cart into his shins.

I'd aim a little higher...

frb
01-14-2019, 11:23 PM
calling it right now.. Cam Reddish will be the point guard or a point forward whatever you want to call it.
Reddish/Goldwire
Alex O
Barrett
Zion/White
DeLaurier/Bolden

White was horrific tonight but no reason to believe it wasn't just a really bad night. He's been solid the whole year but he's a 22-25 min a game player. Have him play 35 mins and you'll see a lot warts.

goldwire isn't gonna cut it as a full time PG. Reddish is the guy. Point forward is what he'll play in the NBA.. sort of like what Justice Winslow is doing for Miami now.

WiJoe
01-14-2019, 11:24 PM
The only ones who didn't give it their all tonight were the crazies.. How sad. What a shame.
Love, Ima


Yep. most overrated student section in the country.

AZLA
01-14-2019, 11:24 PM
Watching the Texas vs. Kansas game and the announcers are talking about how Duke "got caught looking ahead to UVA" and "that's what you get when you have freshmen who have never played those kind of situations."

I guess no one bothered to tell them that we were down two starters.

Saw that. The guy was just filling air. He was clueless.

kAzE
01-14-2019, 11:26 PM
So is Jack the presumed starter while Tre is out? Or is it maybe Alex?

I would guess Jack. He's had an absolutely brutal few games shooting the ball, but he'd been so reliable before that. This was the first game where I thought the shot not falling began to affect other parts of his game. Or it was more likely the fatigue. Still, I think he gets the first shot. He's just gotta understand that he can't go ALL OUT like he usually does with this type of minute workload.

elvis14
01-14-2019, 11:34 PM
Unlike some of you, I waited a bit and calmed down before coming here to post. My thoughts:



I hate losing so yeah, I'm pissed.
It is hard to win without your starting backcourt. That's not an excuse, just stating a fact.
Losing Cam on game day and Tre 6 minutes in makes a huge difference. If those guys had been hurt in practice yesterday and the players and coaches have time to prepare for this scenario, things play out differently.
We really missed Tre and Cam on defense
This game should be good for AOC. He played a lot, did some good things, scored some points (I think his career high). He did struggle on defense and had the 2 bad turnovers. I thought he's the one that should have take more 3's. Overall, however, a decent game.
What do we say about RJ. He played the whole game. Gave great effort. I wasn't fond of his shot selection (is that a pleasant enough way of saying it?)
Nightmare for Jack. I would have liked to have seen him make some adjustments and stop shooting 3's.
One thing I'm happy with for every player is the effort.
How many low percentage shots is 'Cuse hit? 50?
Difference in the game was the banked in BS 3 and the 3/4 court throw in BS 3.
I have to admit, I thought this was not one of Coach K's best games.
I thought Zion was going to foul out the whole 'Cuse team until the refs swallowed their whistles when he had the ball
Bilas was truly awful tonight. Vitale on a bad night would have been better.
Someone used the word embarrassing. I'll have to say that the behavior of some on this thread has been embarrassing.


Most important point: get well Tre!

Acymetric
01-14-2019, 11:34 PM
Goldwire played horribly in the first half. His three point shooting is non-existent for the year. I see why some knowledgeable posters said Coach K would not go with Goldy as our point guard next season. GoDuke!


calling it right now.. Cam Reddish will be the point guard or a point forward whatever you want to call it.
Reddish/Goldwire
Alex O
Barrett
Zion/White
DeLaurier/Bolden

White was horrific tonight but no reason to believe it wasn't just a really bad night. He's been solid the whole year but he's a 22-25 min a game player. Have him play 35 mins and you'll see a lot warts.

goldwire isn't gonna cut it as a full time PG. Reddish is the guy. Point forward is what he'll play in the NBA.. sort of like what Justice Winslow is doing for Miami now.

That is a bold prediction, Barrett seems much more likely to take the ballhandling duties than Reddish.

Old Dukie
01-14-2019, 11:40 PM
calling it right now.. Cam Reddish will be the point guard or a point forward whatever you want to call it.
Reddish/Goldwire
Alex O
Barrett
Zion/White
DeLaurier/Bolden

White was horrific tonight but no reason to believe it wasn't just a really bad night. He's been solid the whole year but he's a 22-25 min a game player. Have him play 35 mins and you'll see a lot warts.

goldwire isn't gonna cut it as a full time PG. Reddish is the guy. Point forward is what he'll play in the NBA.. sort of like what Justice Winslow is doing for Miami now.

But Goody will get better if given the playing time. Even if he doesn't shoot much, he'll be better for Zion and RJ....esp. in the the half-court offense. The kid needs developing just like a few others on the bench.

thewoosh31
01-14-2019, 11:42 PM
That says it all. kids played a hell of a game in a really bad situation.

Completely agree. Super impressed that we almost won without Tre. Zion and RJ have been amazing, but like the 2015 team/Tyus, Tre has been our MVP. I was devastated to see him go out and held on hope that we could still gut it out. I’m praying that he heals properly and doesn’t rush things.

The rest of the kids played their hearts out, Cuse got fortunate with incredulous shots and calls (we get those too BTW on other nights), we made some bad plays/missed FTs, Cam was out sick, UVA is coming. Perfect storm.

Sad that we lost. Proud that we fought hard and almost pulled it out despite the circumstances. Hopeful that Cam returns for UVA. Happy that AOC and Ques grew up a bit more tonight with extended playing time. Praying for Tre’s shoulder to heal sooner than later. He’s our MVP.

jipops
01-14-2019, 11:53 PM
calling it right now.. Cam Reddish will be the point guard or a point forward whatever you want to call it.
Reddish/Goldwire
Alex O
Barrett
Zion/White
DeLaurier/Bolden

White was horrific tonight but no reason to believe it wasn't just a really bad night. He's been solid the whole year but he's a 22-25 min a game player. Have him play 35 mins and you'll see a lot warts.

goldwire isn't gonna cut it as a full time PG. Reddish is the guy. Point forward is what he'll play in the NBA.. sort of like what Justice Winslow is doing for Miami now.

I have serious doubts that K is going to put the ball in the hands of our most turnover prone perimeter player and have him be the point guard/distributor. I think it is far more likely to be Barrett if K elects to go that route. There really isn’t a good option here. Goldwire will struggle managing such a greater load and defensively he is non existent. Also, what happens to our offensive pace? Will it have to slow down?

DukieInBrasil
01-15-2019, 12:52 AM
seriously weird stat lines in this game, not mention missing 2 of our best players. I'm only worried about how long Tre will be out.
0-10? 4-17? that's just sad.
Zion needs to be the 1st option all the time.
I hope Cam is able to play vs UVA, and of course i hope Tre can too, but if his injury is more serious than that, i won't worry about losing to the Cavs. Duke is certainly better than SYR and only lost to them w/o 2 stars b/c several guys couldn't hit the side of a barn.
Tre was on pace to have roughly 24 steals. I doubt SYR would have scored if he hadn't gotten hurt. I'm worried that this is becoming the new MO for how to beat Duke: injure their star players. The refs at FSU were 100% to blame for allowing that game to be so physical. I'm not sure that Howard is to blame for diving for a loose ball, we Duke fans encourage our players to do that.

frb
01-15-2019, 01:03 AM
I have serious doubts that K is going to put the ball in the hands of our most turnover prone perimeter player and have him be the point guard/distributor. I think it is far more likely to be Barrett if K elects to go that route. There really isn’t a good option here. Goldwire will struggle managing such a greater load and defensively he is non existent. Also, what happens to our offensive pace? Will it have to slow down?

Barrett is definitely able to facilitate the offense but he's our leading scorer. I'd rather him off the ball. Barrett would be my pick to best utilize his overall skillset. right now he basically just shoots 3s and disappears often.

John Calipari used Reddish as a PG at the Under 19 World Championships. Same tournament USA lost to RJ Barrett led Canada. He also played PG in EYBL and HS ball. Obviously that's not the ACC but he's capable of doing it. Might be worth a look.

KandG
01-15-2019, 01:19 AM
I'm really down because the hub of our team is going to be out for a good while. I'm seriously hoping he's at least able to return toward the end of the season, or at worst, the start of the ACC tournament. Any later and there goes what was looking to be one of the most special seasons of K's career.

The loss honestly, especially with Cam's absence on top of Tre's injury, was avoidable but more than understandable. Even though Syracuse hasn't been good this year so far, this is still the core of a team that got to the Sweet Sixteen last year and beat Michigan State (who shot 8-37 from 3) and held us to 5-26 shooting from 3 while losing a close game. And you're asking RJ to run the offense against that kind of zone which he doesn't have much experience doing, plus he doesn't benefit from the usual off the ball looks he gets with Tre and Cam running the offense, so he was totally out of rhythm. It's not a surprise RJ settled for a lot of the standstill 3s Syracuse is happy for opponents to take, as regrettable as some of them were.

Yes, Syracuse was probably a little fortunate to make as many difficult shots as they did, but I'd say that was aided by the mood of the team after Tre's injury...those looked like some seriously slumped shoulders on our team, and we didn't provide much resistance on their ball screens and transition in the first half at all.

Really liked the effort of Bolden and O'Connell under trying circumstances. Jack White was game and I'm not going to fault him too much for having heavy legs on his shots given his minutes load -- but a bigger question that's been apparent the last couple of games is that teams have scouted him and aren't giving him the comfort zone he's gotten on his 3 point attempts at the start of the season. He doesn't seem to be comfortable releasing under the pressure ACC opponents have applied, and it's messing with his head even on wide open looks. At least Alex has a bit more irrational confidence and will occasionally let it fly (in both good and bad ways).

This game would have been won with even a half-speed Cam, because Cam on Frank Howard wouldn't have been the mismatch that O'Connell on Howard was. But that's neither here nor there. We can recover from a loss like this minus two of our best players. Whether our season can recover from an extended absence from our all-defense PG is a bigger question I'm anxious to see answered in the coming weeks.

Kedsy
01-15-2019, 01:48 AM
I stopped reading this thread around page 5 (actually surprised I got that far). I'll post the advanced stats and update the dunk and defense threads tomorrow.


UVA plays great D regardless of their lineup.

You're right, they always do. Regardless. Like when De'Andre Hunter got hurt last year and playing without him UVa gave up 1.20 ppp (1.22 adjusted) to a #16 seed in the NCAAT.

Wait, what?


...or that we were 48 hours from a hellish battle...

Seriously. I assume everyone saw what happened to FSU today?


His shoulder got bent in a way its not supposed to bend.
And how about the No Call on that play?

It wasn't a no call. Howard got called for his third foul on that play.


This game was 100% karma for the "Jack White over Cam Reddish" thread.

Jack White, before the "JW over CR thread" existed: 2pt%=71.4%; 3pt%=39.6%

Jack White, after the "JW over CR thread" was started: 2pt%=0.0%; 3pt%=7.1%


So let's not do that again.

Also, can we stop with threads like, "Is this Duke's deepest team ever," and also stop saying things like our non-starters could compete in the ACC, or Justin Robinson should play ahead of Javin DeLaurier, or Jordan Goldwire should be Duke's starting PG next year? Please?

Dukehk
01-15-2019, 01:49 AM
Ok so I'm behind the curve here but do we have Negative Nellies being poopers?
With Tre we win that game. Period.
It's not over, it's only January and K said after game, paraphrasing, just being Duke doesn't guarantee anything.
He was more concerned about the lack of chatter on switches.
It's all going to be ok folks. weezie would add play the shot clock not the game clock.
But if I see Mike Eades at the grocery store he's getting a cart into his shins.

With Tre and/or Cam we would have blown them out by 15-20. With both we would have won by 30+.

Nugget
01-15-2019, 03:04 AM
Agree, bench development issues again this year.

I'm sorry but this is nonsense. Who else was Coach K supposed to play with Cam out and Tre hurt? Javin got 4 fouls in 11 minutes. Jordan showed he isn't able to handle playing in this kind of game. Vrank would have been helpless on defense with the ball screen mismatches and of no assistance on offense. Should Coach have burned Baker's redshirt just to give Jack or Alex a rest? What practical suggestion do you have?

WVDUKEFAN
01-15-2019, 06:23 AM
You'll see a different team (obviously) on Saturday. K will have five days to prepare. Whether it's Cam, RJ or Goldwire running the point, they'll make adjustments. Tre is definitely the most "basketball intelligent" player we have. The other three, while very good/great, are still learning the game and don't see the game like Tre (Zion is probably second when it comes to seeing what is going on). I think when Tre comes back, we don't miss a beat.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-15-2019, 06:33 AM
How good is Zion Williamson though?

I think he just broke the Freshman record for points in a game..Yup. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

Against a zone no less. Going up against a 7'2 guy who was allowed to maul him all game.

And... Without a point guard who loves lobbing him softball gimmies.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-15-2019, 06:51 AM
Very tough loss and if most of us were honest, a surprise.

Most everything has been said - terrible shooting, we obviously missed Jones on defense even more than on offense, and losing Reddish 48 hours after his breakout game... That all is tough to overcome.

AOC played impressive ball, Bolden had good moments against a tough squad, and Zion continues to somehow get all the hype in the world, but be taken for granted on this board. He is an unfair advantage every game, and we should enjoy it while we can.

My only issue with how we played is that I was surprised we didn't force refs to make more calls early in the second half. There was a HUGE foul difference in the first half. If we continued to take the ball into the lane in the first 5-10 minutes of the second half, several Syracuse players would have been either at 4 or 5 fouls completely changing the dynamics of the end game strategies.

As stated above, post-loss threads are frequently embarrassing to read just a few days later. Remember that the internet has an indefinite memory when you voice your frustrations.

All that said, the future of this team lies on Jones's shoulder. He is FAR better than we dared to dream, he is the lynchpin to our defense, and the trigger to making all our guys better on offense. I don't agree with posters suggesting that without him we can't win the conference, but it sure will be more difficult.

Let's go Duke! Next play! Beat UVA!

Neals384
01-15-2019, 06:53 AM
If anybody has a contact with the goduke folks, please let them know the posted box score is hosed up. It has the first half play by play but not the second half or OT.

Troublemaker
01-15-2019, 07:40 AM
What's up with these posters who do most of their posting after losses / injuries?


And last year, when we were healthy and had a fairly easy schedule and UVA still won, what was that?

UVA will likely win it. And it’s not because of scheduling nor a set of circumstances.


It will happen again, folks - count on it! Until Duke coaches start sitting non-performers more, and start using bench players when needed, we will surely be beaten. It's a team game...let others develop and contribute as necessary.


Two more banners in the rafters than we got last year?

I would love to see you guys post when things are going well, too.

slower
01-15-2019, 07:47 AM
calling it right now.. Cam Reddish will be the point guard or a point forward whatever you want to call it.

You should make this a pie bet, because you'd have a LONG line of takers betting that RJ will run point.

Matches
01-15-2019, 08:04 AM
Perfect storm of bad stuff last night. I'd suggest that there are exactly zero teams in the country who could lose their starting backcourt and not take a huge hit. Don't want to use that as an excuse - injuries are part of the game and whatnot, and you play with who you've got - but it would be myopic to pretend that didn't completely change the game.

With our two best on-ball defenders out, White spent the night trying to stay in front of Battle. He worked his tail off but he just isn't quick enough to stay in front of a guy like that. That led to the defense breaking down repeatedly. Syracuse hit some ridiculous shots that they normally don't, but they also got a fair number of o-rebounds when our guys were pulled out of position.

The shooting -- I mean, we're not a good 3pt shooting team under the best of circumstances. White going ohfer was unfortunate to say the least. I always had the sense that if he could just hit *one*, he'd be fine, but his confidence definitely looked affected. I know no one, me included, likes seeing RJ shoot 17 threes, but most of them were good looks. We could have been better about feeding the post or driving, but we did score 91 points.

The bigger problem was giving up 95 to a bad offensive team. I do think we just ran out of gas in overtime. Get well soon, Tre and Cam.

kshepinthehouse
01-15-2019, 08:06 AM
We have the top two picks in the draft on this team...

Exactly, I can promise you no one in the country is feeling sorry for us.

Dukebasketball2020
01-15-2019, 08:13 AM
Duke had a 5 point lead with like 7 min to go, Syracuse got back in the game because of some bad plays from Oconnel and Jack White. Oconnel and Jack white both looked horrible on defense trying to defend the ball out front, and down the stretch Jack kept shooting 3's, why isn't one of your two best players taking the shots? Zion was basically automatic getting the ball inside unless he got hacked. IN OT neither zion or RJ shot until 1:15 left in the game, you can't let that happen.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-15-2019, 08:14 AM
Exactly, I can promise you no one in the country is feeling sorry for us.

I"m not sure that was the point......of anyone's comment. Fact is, the PG is the quarterback.......and thus this is a devastating loss potentially. A potential dream killer. I haven't really been bemoaning this situation in the thread, but I understand those who have/are.

luburch
01-15-2019, 08:16 AM
Duke had a 5 point lead with like 7 min to go, Syracuse got back in the game because of some bad plays from Oconnel and Jack White. Oconnel and Jack white both looked horrible on defense trying to defend the ball out front, and down the stretch Jack kept shooting 3's, why isn't one of your two best players taking the shots? Zion was basically automatic getting the ball inside unless he got hacked. IN OT neither zion or RJ shot until 1:15 left in the game, you can't let that happen.

RJ took 30 shots last night.
Zion took 20 and had 14 FTs.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-15-2019, 08:18 AM
RJ took 30 shots last night.
Zion took 20 and had 14 FTs.

Which means, in effect, Zion took 25-27 shots, depending on how many FTs were the result of being fouled while shooting. So yeah, nearly 60 shots from the two top guys is pretty much evidence that the stars had their opportunities.

Rich
01-15-2019, 08:24 AM
What's up with these posters who do most of their posting after losses / injuries?

FDD is a regular poster although perhaps a bit of a glass half empty sort of guy. Maybe that's just the way people are raised in The Netherlands?

It seems quite obvious that Old Dukie is a troll.

Not sure about ndkjr70 as s/he seems to be new around these parts.

dukelifer
01-15-2019, 08:36 AM
Duke had a 5 point lead with like 7 min to go, Syracuse got back in the game because of some bad plays from Oconnel and Jack White. Oconnel and Jack white both looked horrible on defense trying to defend the ball out front, and down the stretch Jack kept shooting 3's, why isn't one of your two best players taking the shots? Zion was basically automatic getting the ball inside unless he got hacked. IN OT neither zion or RJ shot until 1:15 left in the game, you can't let that happen.

Jack shot threes because no one was within 10 ft of him. He has hit that shot all year. Yesterday was a bad shooting night. Ask the Houston Rockets about bad shooting nights from 3. RJ took a lot of threes and missed 13 of them but many were good looks 3-4 were in and out. It was a bad night. Fortunately more games to play. If this was the tourney- it would have stung that much more.

DBGoins
01-15-2019, 08:57 AM
Jack shot threes because no one was within 10 ft of him. He has hit that shot all year. Yesterday was a bad shooting night. Ask the Houston Rockets about bad shooting nights from 3. RJ took a lot of threes and missed 13 of them but many were good looks 3-4 were in and out. It was a bad night. Fortunately more games to play. If this was the tourney- it would have stung that much more.

White played 42 minutes and O'Connell played 34 which I would say are double the minutes they typically get.

This probably had something to do with the poor shooting and mental errors.


Everyone was playing out of position last night, I'm sure our coaching staff prepared the team for playing without Cam but losing Tre completely changed the offence and defense.


At least we have 5 days to prepare for Va. and make adjustments if needed.

sagegrouse
01-15-2019, 09:00 AM
White played 42 minutes and O'Connell played 34 which I would say are double the minutes they typically get.

This probably had something to do with the poor shooting and mental errors.


Everyone was playing out of position last night, I'm sure our coaching staff prepared the team for playing without Cam but losing Tre completely changed the offence and defense.


At least we have 5 days to prepare for Va. and make adjustments if needed.

Are you one-half Canadian?

Kindly,
Sage
'Please excuse the levity at the funeral, but sometimes it helps'

CameronDuke
01-15-2019, 09:29 AM
Hoping the AC joint separation heals quickly and Tre can get back as soon as possible, but don't want to rush him to further jeopardize his career by not letting his injury heal. Just a terrible injury anyway you look at it for himself and the team. He had 4 steals already in 6 minutes of action.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-15-2019, 09:33 AM
Hoping the AC joint separation heals quickly and Tre can get back as soon as possible, but don't want to rush him to further jeopardize his career by not letting his injury heal. Just a terrible injury anyway you look at it for himself and the team. He had 4 steals already in 6 minutes of action.

...and the rest of the team, in 40 minutes, had only 4 as well.

Channing
01-15-2019, 09:51 AM
I have no problem with most of the shots Jack took. We need him to be confident and want to take the open shot. He happened to miss his shots - it happens on occasion, though I would suggest the likelihood of him going 0-9 again is very small. If he starts hesitating, even a little, it has a broader ripple effect across the entire offense. On defense, my unprofessional analysis is that he is really good at help side defense. Ordinarily Cam would, I assume, be covering someone like Battle down the stretch. With Cam out it put Jack more on an island having to guard on the ball in isolation and he got beat a fair number of times (though to Battle's credit, he also made a number of really tough shots).

I thought the biggest issue was that we were clearly gassed for the last 5 minutes of regulation and OT. We weren't really working inside-out, but rather passing around the perimeter. We tried to get it inside to Zion with varying degrees of success, but again, I think we were just exhausted.

AOC was great though definitely made some mistakes - the kind of mistakes you expect to see from a guy who averages 7-10 minutes a night and is all of a sudden thrust into a primary role. Nevertheless, I thought he rose to the occasion, hopefully gained confidence, and even played some really good defense (though he still got lost a couple times).

Bolden was really good. He went for the block a couple times which left the backside rebound open, but he also caused a lot of havoc around the rim. I think most teams in America would take a center that produces the way Bolden did last night.

Upshot: We missed a lot of shots. A lot of them were open, they just didn't fall. The defense was suspect, but what do you expect when you lose your best and (arguably) second best defender? I thought we were fine against the zone until the last 5 of regulation and OT. My only concern coming out of this game is Tre's health.

slower
01-15-2019, 09:54 AM
FDD is a regular poster although perhaps a bit of a glass half empty sort of guy. Maybe that's just the way people are raised in The Netherlands?

It seems quite obvious that Old Dukie is a troll.

Not sure about ndkjr70 as s/he seems to be new around these parts.
I'll self-identify as one of those "glass half empty" types. But maybe those of us on this end of the spectrum balance out the folks who automatically boldly predict double-digit wins EVERY game. Or the folks who were confidently predicting that both the Giles/Tatum and Bagley/Carter classes would demolish everybody. And have done so for this class, as well. It takes all kinds. We probably annoy each other equally.

azzefkram
01-15-2019, 10:01 AM
I guess we have a pretty good idea as to who Duke's most important player is. For Tre's sake, I hope the bruise/separation is minor.

It's definitely sucky that Duke lost but, as others have pointed out, a whole lot went wrong for Duke while a whole lot went right for Cuse. I thought RJ, Zion and Marques had great games. I am on the fence as to whether Jack should have continued to jack up 3s. He seemed to have zero confidence in the shot. I know driving is not his thing and that zone is a bear but maybe seeing the ball go through the hoop would've helped. I thought AOC was a net negative. I loved his offense and energy but his defense was poor and his decision-making was spotty at best.

It is definitely not over.

Sir Stealth
01-15-2019, 10:07 AM
Agree with descriptions of this game as a "perfect storm" that required tons of things to go wrong for us to still lose narrowly in overtime.

Outside shooting was always going to be a potential achilles heel for this team, with our without Tre. As a star scorer, RJ needs to take those shots when he's open, even though it's not the strength of his game at this point. Some nights he's gotten hot, others he's been ice cold. Jack missing that many open looks and having two poor games in a row is an anomaly for someone who has proven himself a reliable player. Syracuse is the ultimate "pack it in and pray they have a cold night" team. Missing Reddish also hurts in particular here since when all is said and done he's probably expected to be the best shooter on the team, despite the pre-FSU funk.

On the flip side, Syracuse had an insanely hot performance far out of line with what they've done this season. As has been pointed out, they're probably better than they've been, but it came around for them all at once, and a lot of it was well guarded. Duke would have been "unlucky" as far as the opponent getting hot even if you take away the 3 most ridiculous shots: the Buddy B bank-in, the halftime buzzer heave, and whatever happened on that blind fadeaway guarded prayer in the corner.

On nights when Duke's offense hasn't clicked, they've usually made up for it with easy baskets off pressure defense. Obviously losing Tre really hurt here - before his injury it felt like he was getting a steal on every other possession and Syracuse would be run off the court. This team has the players to turn teams over with pressure even with Tre out, so hopefully we can make that happen.

Duke still has more talent than any other team and a coach historically great at making in-season adjustments, so it's stupid and defeatist to give up on any goal for the season at this point. Losing Tre is brutal, but they have the players to adjust the game plan and still be a great team. If I had to bet my life on it I would take Duke over UVA Saturday. It seems like historically Duke always wins games when they are coming off some sort of brutal loss that involves an injury and then have to go against a top team in a big game. They will have a great home court advantage, a long week to prepare, and the most talented players. It will be an extremely difficult challenge, but I like our chances. After that the schedule is super easy for a while, then hopefully Tre can return for the brutal home stretch.

flyingdutchdevil
01-15-2019, 10:10 AM
What's up with these posters who do most of their posting after losses / injuries?

https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?42972-MBB-Duke-Florida-St-(Sat-Jan-12th-2pm-ET-ESPN)-Pre-Game-and-In-Game-Thread






I would love to see you guys post when things are going well, too.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA! Wait, gimme a minute. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH.

1. Feel free to look at my post history. I've posted around 25 times prior to this loss and after the Zags game. My bad if my posting volume has gone down, but work, moving back to Boston, and buying a new house will do that to you.

2. I was overseas during our only other loss (Zags) so I didn't post then. Great to know you make conclusions on one data point!

3. Based on a massive change (arguably our best player out for at least a few weeks, maybe more), I believe UVa is now, without question, the best team in the ACC and the team to beat. I'm optimistic that we'll go far in the NCAA Tournament (barring Tre comes back). And I'm not sure why you're so upset. Did you put a bunch of money on Duke to win the ACC Reg Season?

4. I'm more than happy to have this out in public.

flyingdutchdevil
01-15-2019, 10:12 AM
FDD is a regular poster although perhaps a bit of a glass half empty sort of guy. Maybe that's just the way people are raised in The Netherlands?

It seems quite obvious that Old Dukie is a troll.

Not sure about ndkjr70 as s/he seems to be new around these parts.

Thank you. I am definitely a glass half empty sort of guy. Moreso than glass half full, at least. That's my persona. That said, Europeans are definitely less optimistic than Americans (who I tend to think are very optimistic).

jv001
01-15-2019, 10:19 AM
Agree with descriptions of this game as a "perfect storm" that required tons of things to go wrong for us to still lose narrowly in overtime.

Outside shooting was always going to be a potential achilles heel for this team, with our without Tre. As a star scorer, RJ needs to take those shots when he's open, even though it's not the strength of his game at this point. Some nights he's gotten hot, others he's been ice cold. Jack missing that many open looks and having two poor games in a row is an anomaly for someone who has proven himself a reliable player. Syracuse is the ultimate "pack it in and pray they have a cold night" team. Missing Reddish also hurts in particular here since when all is said and done he's probably expected to be the best shooter on the team, despite the pre-FSU funk.

On the flip side, Syracuse had an insanely hot performance far out of line with what they've done this season. As has been pointed out, they're probably better than they've been, but it came around for them all at once, and a lot of it was well guarded. Duke would have been "unlucky" as far as the opponent getting hot even if you take away the 3 most ridiculous shots: the Buddy B bank-in, the halftime buzzer heave, and whatever happened on that blind fadeaway guarded prayer in the corner.

On nights when Duke's offense hasn't clicked, they've usually made up for it with easy baskets off pressure defense. Obviously losing Tre really hurt here - before his injury it felt like he was getting a steal on every other possession and Syracuse would be run off the court. This team has the players to turn teams over with pressure even with Tre out, so hopefully we can make that happen.

Duke still has more talent than any other team and a coach historically great at making in-season adjustments, so it's stupid and defeatist to give up on any goal for the season at this point. Losing Tre is brutal, but they have the players to adjust the game plan and still be a great team. If I had to bet my life on it I would take Duke over UVA Saturday. It seems like historically Duke always wins games when they are coming off some sort of brutal loss that involves an injury and then have to go against a top team in a big game. They will have a great home court advantage, a long week to prepare, and the most talented players. It will be an extremely difficult challenge, but I like our chances. After that the schedule is super easy for a while, then hopefully Tre can return for the brutal home stretch.

I like how you're positive but I'll add the home court advantage didn't help much last night. As weezie and Ima mentioned up thread, the crazies didn't come through last night. Another thing to remember was our guys had to have been worn out by the end of the game. Jack, Marques and Alex had not played that many minutes in their careers. I know some people might say that they have in practice, but that's not game time minutes. One other observation, I sure wish Zion had made the FT with the score tied at 85-85. GoDuke!

Steven43
01-15-2019, 10:19 AM
This game was 100% karma for the "Jack White over Cam Reddish" thread.

Yeah, you’re probably right. I haven’t been able to watch the game yet; I have it recorded and will check it out later today. I heard that Jack had 6 rebounds and 5 assists but couldn’t get his shot to fall. How did Cam play? He must have played REALLY well for you to make that comment.

flyingdutchdevil
01-15-2019, 10:21 AM
Yeah, you’re probably right. I haven’t been able to watch the game yet; I have it recorded and will check it out later today. I heard that Jack had 6 rebounds and 5 assists but couldn’t get his shot to fall. How did Cam play? He must have played REALLY well for you to make that comment.

Cam didn't play, and White started in his place (hence the karma reference). White rebounded and assisted well, but his D wasn't great and his shot was atrocious (0-10 from 3pt land).

UrinalCake
01-15-2019, 10:22 AM
You should make this a pie bet, because you'd have a LONG line of takers betting that RJ will run point.

It's not going to be one person "running" the point. Whoever gets the rebound will bring the ball up the court unless it's Bolden or Javin, the same way we've played all season. But perhaps what you mean is that in the half court it will be primarily RJ and Cam who begin each possession with the ball in their hands and initiate the offense. And I agree that RJ will be the primary player to do this, but they'll each have the ball plenty, as will Zion. UVA doesn't press full court, they play at a snail's pace tempo-wise, and they don't turn the ball over. We're going to struggle to get out in transition, which would have been an issue even with Tre. I guess if I'm looking for a sliver of hope it's that having another shooter on the floor could be a positive against that pack line defense (assuming they can actually hit their threes). Again, I'm really grasping at straws here.

uh_no
01-15-2019, 10:22 AM
Cam didn't play, and White started in his place (hence the karma reference). White rebounded and assisted well, but his D wasn't great and his shot was atrocious (0-10 from 3pt land).

I found it amusingly ironic that we have this thread, Cam goes off, the thread is closed with prejudice, and then Jack starts the next day :P

Troublemaker
01-15-2019, 10:27 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA! Wait, gimme a minute. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH.

1. Feel free to look at my post history. I've posted around 25 times prior to this loss and after the Zags game. My bad if my posting volume has gone down, but work, moving back to Boston, and buying a new house will do that to you.

2. I was overseas during our only other loss (Zags) so I didn't post then. Great to know you make conclusions on one data point!

3. Based on a massive change (arguably our best player out for at least a few weeks, maybe more), I believe UVa is now, without question, the best team in the ACC and the team to beat. I'm optimistic that we'll go far in the NCAA Tournament (barring Tre comes back). And I'm not sure why you're so upset. Did you put a bunch of money on Duke to win the ACC Reg Season?

4. I'm more than happy to have this out in public.

I'm not upset. Just pointing out accurately that your posting volume surged after this loss, and we barely heard a peep from you when Duke was rolling.

It's almost a compliment -- I want to hear from you more.

Glad I could make you laugh heartily. You've never been able to do that for me, unfortunately.

slower
01-15-2019, 10:30 AM
It's not going to be one person "running" the point. Whoever gets the rebound will bring the ball up the court unless it's Bolden or Javin, the same way we've played all season. But perhaps what you mean is that in the half court it will be primarily RJ and Cam who begin each possession with the ball in their hands and initiate the offense. And I agree that RJ will be the primary player to do this, but they'll each have the ball plenty, as will Zion. UVA doesn't press full court, they play at a snail's pace tempo-wise, and they don't turn the ball over. We're going to struggle to get out in transition, which would have been an issue even with Tre. I guess if I'm looking for a sliver of hope it's that having another shooter on the floor could be a positive against that pack line defense (assuming they can actually hit their threes). Again, I'm really grasping at straws here.

Yes, perhaps that IS what I mean. :p

flyingdutchdevil
01-15-2019, 10:32 AM
I'm not upset. Just pointing out accurately that your posting volume surged after this loss, and we barely heard a peep from you when Duke was rolling.

It's almost a compliment -- I want to hear from you more.

Glad I could make you laugh heartily. You've never been able to do that for me, unfortunately.

Lolz. Yeah...after a solid 10 years of posting, I'm getting critiqued for a quiet few months.

Also, your passive-aggressiveness is kinda cute.

CDu
01-15-2019, 10:35 AM
I'm not upset. Just pointing out accurately that your posting volume surged after this loss, and we barely heard a peep from you when Duke was rolling.

To be fair, you said "What's up with these posters who do most of their posting after losses / injuries?" That is a fair bit different than what you just said here. FDD has a LOOOOOOOONG posting history. He doesn't just do most of his posting after losses/injuries. So, no, that wasn't accurate.


It's almost a compliment -- I want to hear from you more.

This is a nice spin.

flyingdutchdevil
01-15-2019, 10:49 AM
To be fair, you said "What's up with these posters who do most of their posting after losses / injuries?" That is a fair bit different than what you just said here. FDD has a LOOOOOOOONG posting history. He doesn't just do most of his posting after losses/injuries. So, no, that wasn't accurate.



This is a nice spin.

Thank you, CDu. Much appreciated.

jv001
01-15-2019, 10:58 AM
Lost in all this, did Javin break Ala's record for consecutive shots made last night. He was 1-1 from the field. Doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things but I was just wondering. GoDuke!

Matches
01-15-2019, 11:00 AM
Lost in all this, did Javin break Ala's record for consecutive shots made last night. He was 1-1 from the field. Doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things but I was just wondering. GoDuke!

He's one short.

Rich
01-15-2019, 11:04 AM
To be fair, you said "What's up with these posters who do most of their posting after losses / injuries?" That is a fair bit different than what you just said here. FDD has a LOOOOOOOONG posting history. He doesn't just do most of his posting after losses/injuries. So, no, that wasn't accurate.

He must have missed FDD's posting during the World Cup. We couldn't shut him up! :rolleyes:

Sir Stealth
01-15-2019, 11:04 AM
I like how you're positive but I'll add the home court advantage didn't help much last night. As weezie and Ima mentioned up thread, the crazies didn't come through last night. Another thing to remember was our guys had to have been worn out by the end of the game. Jack, Marques and Alex had not played that many minutes in their careers. I know some people might say that they have in practice, but that's not game time minutes. One other observation, I sure wish Zion had made the FT with the score tied at 85-85. GoDuke!

I can't really comment on what it was actually like in the stadium, but this may have been a trap game for the Crazies even more than it was for the team. Monday at 7:00 is a weird time, and everyone is probably focused on UVA this weekend. I'm disappointed if the crowd didn't step up to lift Duke after Tre's injury, but there's no question in my mind that Duke will have an A+ atmosphere behind them in Cameron on Saturday, and that it will make a difference.

jv001
01-15-2019, 11:07 AM
I can't really comment on what it was actually like in the stadium, but this may have been a trap game for the Crazies even more than it was for the team. Monday at 7:00 is a weird time, and everyone is probably focused on UVA this weekend. I'm disappointed if the crowd didn't step up to lift Duke after Tre's injury, but there's no question in my mind that Duke will have an A+ atmosphere behind them in Cameron on Saturday, and that it will make a difference.

You're probably correct the Crazies will be in full volume against the Hoos. Plus they know the ESPN Game Day guys will be there. GoDuke!

Troublemaker
01-15-2019, 11:11 AM
To be fair, you said "What's up with these posters who do most of their posting after losses / injuries?" That is a fair bit different than what you just said here. FDD has a LOOOOOOOONG posting history. He doesn't just do most of his posting after losses/injuries. So, no, that wasn't accurate.

I was accurate about this season. As for previous seasons, I can give FDD the benefit of the doubt. I think we can all agree that negative posters who only post after losses / injuries are annoying, and let's hope FDD doesn't become such a poster.

flyingdutchdevil
01-15-2019, 11:15 AM
He must have missed FDD's posting during the World Cup. We couldn't shut him up! :rolleyes:

Hey now! That was the 2014 WC (damn, you have an amazing memory!). In the 2018 WC, my inept team didn't even make it, and I begrudgingly supported my wife's home country (France). Gross.

flyingdutchdevil
01-15-2019, 11:16 AM
I was accurate about this season. As for previous seasons, I can give FDD the benefit of the doubt. I think we can all agree that negative posters who only post after losses / injuries are annoying, and let's hope FDD doesn't become such a poster.

Based on support I've received on this thread in addition to private messages, I'm confident you are the only one who thinks this.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-15-2019, 11:24 AM
Based on support I've received on this thread in addition to private messages, I'm confident you are the only one who thinks this.

Based on the fact that I cannot spork you, I think you are correct.

Kedsy
01-15-2019, 11:31 AM
ADVANCED STATS

Possessions: 90.9 (which translates to 80.8 possessions per 40 minutes, one of our fastest games against the second-slowest opponent we've played all year; meaning once again Duke won the battle of the pace)

OFFENSE

oRtg: 1.00 (our adjusted oRtg was 1.12, not terrible, considering we played without Cam and Tre).
eFG%: 44.4%
3pt%: 20.9%
2pt%: 59.5% (really good against the kind of defense we saw against Syracuse)
%threes: 53.8% (in light of the two numbers above, this number is light years too high)
FT rate: 33.8% (not bad, against a zone)
OR%: 26.9% (this is atrocious against the 256th best DR team in the country (Syracuse is almost as bad at defensive rebounding as Duke is))
TO%: 13.2% (very strong, especially considering our PG only played 5 minutes in the game)
a/to: 1.75:1 (ditto)
%assisted: 66.7% (tritto)
fast break pts: for some reason the box score only has the first half stats for this; we had 9 fb pts in the first half, for 18.4% of our points; Though I got the impression we were much worse at this in the second half.


DEFENSE

dRtg: 1.05 (adjusted that's 1.00, not great but considering we played without our two best defenders, it might be as good as we could have hoped for)
eFG%: 50.6% (pretty bad but, again, we played without our two best defenders)
3pt%: 44.0% (really bad but, ditto)
2pt%: 43.6% (not bad, considering)
%threes: 31.3%
FT rate: 23.8%
DR%: 72.3% (really good for us, against a pretty good (though not great) offensive rebounding team)
TO%: 16.4% (broke our nine game streak of having a 20%+ TO%; clearly Tre and/or Cam are the key to Duke turning our opponents over)
a/to: 0.87:1 (tenth straight game our opponents have had more turnovers than assists)
%assisted: 37.1%
fast break pts: again, we only have first half data for this, and in the first half Syracuse had 4 fb pts for 8.3% of their points
block%: 15.0%; 21.8% of 2-point shots (very strong for the second-best blocking team in the country)
steal%: 8.8% (third straight only so-so game, compared to our season steals performance; but without Cam and Tre, that was to be expected)


Tre played 12 possessions in this game. A small sample, to be sure, but here are our efficiency numbers with and without Tre in this game:

WITH TRE:
12 possessions; 1.17 oRating (1.29 adjusted); 0.50 dRating (0.46 adjusted); 41.7% TO%

WITHOUT TRE:
78.9 possessions; 0.98 oRating (1.10 adjusted); 1.13 dRating (1.08 adjusted); 12.7% TO%

pfrduke
01-15-2019, 11:34 AM
Turning this back to the game itself, my approach to losses is always to look at what they might signal about the team going forward. This one had so many unique factors that I'm not sure it says much of anything, other than that if we unexpectedly* have to play without both our starting PG and starting SG against a 2-3 zone, we are at least vulnerable. I don't think this really previews any inherent issues the team faces, except maybe depth (and only in a very specific way).

*I do think it's important to highlight unexpectedly - Cam was a very late scratch and Tre was a mid-game loss, so the coaches didn't have any opportunity to game plan for playing without those two players. With time to plan - and time for the supporting players to adjust their mindset to what would be required of them - there may have been differences in approach that better compensated for the harm of losing those two.

Steven43
01-15-2019, 11:42 AM
Based on support I've received on this thread in addition to private messages, I'm confident you are the only one who thinks this.
FDD, does it really matter whether or not Troublemaker is the only one who thinks this? I doubt you’re much concerned about superficial stuff such as overall popularity and likeability. Anyway, just remember what he (Troublemaker) chose to call himself on DBR. That probably shouldn’t be overlooked.

By the way, I predict a three-point win for the good guys (Duke) on Saturday.

kAzE
01-15-2019, 11:55 AM
Why does it even matter when people post? I don't care if people only post after a loss . . .

Even if FDD did what Troublemaker is accusing him of doing (and I don't believe that's true), what's the big deal? There's obviously more to discuss after a loss (or injury) than an easy win.

As long as the posts themselves aren't overly negative or destructive, who cares? Much ado about nothing IMO.

dukelifer
01-15-2019, 11:57 AM
Thank you. I am definitely a glass half empty sort of guy. Moreso than glass half full, at least. That's my persona. That said, Europeans are definitely less optimistic than Americans (who I tend to think are very optimistic).

I am American but not one to be overly optimistic. However, I have learned not to be too critical of play in a single game unless it involves bad habits that are not being corrected- like FT shooting or lack of assists. A bad shooting night happens in basketball. There were many mental errors but many that happened in the flow of a physical game. We do not know what kind of Duke team will emerge in the next few weeks. For that reason we fans are justifiably nervous. The team is not going to function like the one we have seen play over the last couple of months- particularly on the defensive end. I was really enjoying the steals and fast breaks. Those may not happen with the same frequency. But we have all learned we need to trust the process. There is a ton of talent to build a team around. K and his coaches have some work to do.

Jeffrey
01-15-2019, 12:13 PM
Why does it even matter when people post? I don't care if people only post after a loss . . .

Even if FDD did what Troublemaker is accusing him of doing (and I don't believe that's true), what's the big deal? There's obviously more to discuss after a loss (or injury) than an easy win.

As long as the posts themselves aren't overly negative or destructive, who cares? Much ado about nothing IMO.



IMO, Troublemaker is trying to impress by moving posters in a positive direction. Maybe, Troublemaker is trying to be selected a moderator? Would that require a name change?

FDD is a regular and posts regardless of game outcome. IMO, a bad call by Troublemaker.

lotusland
01-15-2019, 12:15 PM
It's not going to be one person "running" the point. Whoever gets the rebound will bring the ball up the court unless it's Bolden or Javin, the same way we've played all season. But perhaps what you mean is that in the half court it will be primarily RJ and Cam who begin each possession with the ball in their hands and initiate the offense. And I agree that RJ will be the primary player to do this, but they'll each have the ball plenty, as will Zion. UVA doesn't press full court, they play at a snail's pace tempo-wise, and they don't turn the ball over. We're going to struggle to get out in transition, which would have been an issue even with Tre. I guess if I'm looking for a sliver of hope it's that having another shooter on the floor could be a positive against that pack line defense (assuming they can actually hit their threes). Again, I'm really grasping at straws here.

Yeah I think UVA and Syracuse have a great defense for Duke this year. You might be tempted to press us without Tre but that would allow Zion, Cam and RJ to get out in the open court which is our strength. Better to let whoever bring the ball up and play half court against the zone or pack line and try to rebound the misses. The other issue with missed 3s is that it limits offensive rebounds in the paint which, for Zion, is the next best thing to a fast break. I fear an even uglier game than usual agains UVA.

kAzE
01-15-2019, 12:23 PM
Yeah I think UVA and Syracuse have a great defense for Duke this year. You might be tempted to press us without Tre but that would allow Zion, Cam and RJ to get out in the open court which is our strength. Better to let whoever bring the ball up and play half court against the zone or pack line and try to rebound the misses. The other issue with missed 3s is that it limits offensive rebounds in the paint which, for Zion, is the next best thing to a fast break. I fear an even uglier game than usual agains UVA.

Really? I mean, we missed at least 15 wide open 3s last night, maybe more. They hit at least 10-12 heavily contested shots, and a 75 footer. We were down 2 of our best 4 players, one of whom is our best shooter (Cam obviously would have been helpful against a zone). They defended Zion in the high post well because they literally stopped guarding Jack White. I think if we played them at full strength, we'd win 100% of the time. Heck, we should have won that game last night. If Jack hit 1 shot, that's a W.

That was as fluky a game as I can recall, where everything went right for one team and everything went wrong for the other team. And we still almost won.

UVa is another beast, though. They'll definitely be favored on Saturday.

Lar77
01-15-2019, 12:33 PM
Lot of negative energy in this thread.

We lost one starter right before warm-ups and our point guard a few minutes into the game. The rest of the team played about as hard as they can. Syracuse was throwing in shots at a ridiculous rate mostly on well-defended plays.

Don't know what got into Jack's shooting (the rest of his game was better than some people have stated here). He may have been pressing too much. AOC emerged as a player last night. Bolden played great.

Lot of criticisms on this board about not going to Zion more, but Syracuse was collapsing on him and the refs let it get very physical (it was not consistently called either - lot of head scratching). He looked gassed at the end.

We were confused in OT, but that may be fatigue etc.

Give credit to Syracuse. They usually play us very hard and they did again last night

This game had a ton of "what ifs". They didn't happen, we lost a close game. People can rip on Duke, but we move forward.

Get well Tre. Our prayers are with you for a full recovery regardless of how long it takes.

NSDukeFan
01-15-2019, 12:42 PM
I have no problem with most of the shots Jack took. We need him to be confident and want to take the open shot. He happened to miss his shots - it happens on occasion, though I would suggest the likelihood of him going 0-9 again is very small. If he starts hesitating, even a little, it has a broader ripple effect across the entire offense. On defense, my unprofessional analysis is that he is really good at help side defense. Ordinarily Cam would, I assume, be covering someone like Battle down the stretch. With Cam out it put Jack more on an island having to guard on the ball in isolation and he got beat a fair number of times (though to Battle's credit, he also made a number of really tough shots).

I thought the biggest issue was that we were clearly gassed for the last 5 minutes of regulation and OT. We weren't really working inside-out, but rather passing around the perimeter. We tried to get it inside to Zion with varying degrees of success, but again, I think we were just exhausted.

AOC was great though definitely made some mistakes - the kind of mistakes you expect to see from a guy who averages 7-10 minutes a night and is all of a sudden thrust into a primary role. Nevertheless, I thought he rose to the occasion, hopefully gained confidence, and even played some really good defense (though he still got lost a couple times).

Bolden was really good. He went for the block a couple times which left the backside rebound open, but he also caused a lot of havoc around the rim. I think most teams in America would take a center that produces the way Bolden did last night.

Upshot: We missed a lot of shots. A lot of them were open, they just didn't fall. The defense was suspect, but what do you expect when you lose your best and (arguably) second best defender? I thought we were fine against the zone until the last 5 of regulation and OT. My only concern coming out of this game is Tre's health.
I was certainly fine with the volume of shots Jack took and most of the times he shot. I felt at least a couple of times he passed up good open looks and then tool a more challenging one later. I also thought Bolden was really good,except for one shot contest when the Syracuse player was well defended allowing an alley-oop, but that is picking nits. My impression is that Bolden has been moving his feet well enough that he is not getting blown by when he is matched up with guards, at least not enough that he can’t still make for a difficult shot. He has stepped up on the D boards as well. I am really enjoying the way he has been trending and hope it continues. It was really nice to see O’Connell take advantage of his opportunity last night as well, minus a couple turnovers.

I'll self-identify as one of those "glass half empty" types. But maybe those of us on this end of the spectrum balance out the folks who automatically boldly predict double-digit wins EVERY game. Or the folks who were confidently predicting that both the Giles/Tatum and Bagley/Carter classes would demolish everybody. And have done so for this class, as well. It takes all kinds. We probably annoy each other equally.
There is a reasonable balance of you pessimists and the good optimists on this board. 😀. I only thought the Giles/Tatum classes would demolish everyone because they also had several good upperclassmen. I was pleasantly surprised with how good Bagley/Carter were. I expect you are correct with the amount of annoyance on each side.

ADVANCED STATS

Possessions: 90.9 (which translates to 80.8 possessions per 40 minutes, one of our fastest games against the second-slowest opponent we've played all year; meaning once again Duke won the battle of the pace)

OFFENSE

oRtg: 1.00 (our adjusted oRtg was 1.12, not terrible, considering we played without Cam and Tre).
eFG%: 44.4%
3pt%: 20.9%
2pt%: 59.5% (really good against the kind of defense we saw against Syracuse)
%threes: 53.8% (in light of the two numbers above, this number is light years too high)
FT rate: 33.8% (not bad, against a zone)
OR%: 26.9% (this is atrocious against the 256th best DR team in the country (Syracuse is almost as bad at defensive rebounding as Duke is))
TO%: 13.2% (very strong, especially considering our PG only played 5 minutes in the game)
a/to: 1.75:1 (ditto)
%assisted: 66.7% (tritto)
fast break pts: for some reason the box score only has the first half stats for this; we had 9 fb pts in the first half, for 18.4% of our points; Though I got the impression we were much worse at this in the second half.


DEFENSE

dRtg: 1.05 (adjusted that's 1.00, not great but considering we played without our two best defenders, it might be as good as we could have hoped for)
eFG%: 50.6% (pretty bad but, again, we played without our two best defenders)
3pt%: 44.0% (really bad but, ditto)
2pt%: 43.6% (not bad, considering)
%threes: 31.3%
FT rate: 23.8%
DR%: 72.3% (really good for us, against a pretty good (though not great) offensive rebounding team)
TO%: 16.4% (broke our nine game streak of having a 20%+ TO%; clearly Tre and/or Cam are the key to Duke turning our opponents over)
a/to: 0.87:1 (tenth straight game our opponents have had more turnovers than assists)
%assisted: 37.1%
fast break pts: again, we only have first half data for this, and in the first half Syracuse had 4 fb pts for 8.3% of their points
block%: 15.0%; 21.8% of 2-point shots (very strong for the second-best blocking team in the country)
steal%: 8.8% (third straight only so-so game, compared to our season steals performance; but without Cam and Tre, that was to be expected)


Tre played 12 possessions in this game. A small sample, to be sure, but here are our efficiency numbers with and without Tre in this game:

WITH TRE:
12 possessions; 1.17 oRating (1.29 adjusted); 0.50 dRating (0.46 adjusted); 41.7% TO%

WITHOUT TRE:
78.9 possessions; 0.98 oRating (1.10 adjusted); 1.13 dRating (1.08 adjusted); 12.7% TO%

I was interested to see the advanced stats, as always, as 91 points doesn’t seem to bad, but 95 to a poor offensive team doesn’t seem like a recipe for success. I wonder if we win be able to speed up Virginia, like we have been able to against other slow teams. That will definitely be more challenging without Tre, as is everything. As others have mentioned upthread, I doubt this Duke team is conceding any games as they wait for Tre to heal.

HaveFunExpectToWin
01-15-2019, 12:44 PM
Came here to say that Tre’s injury and importance to the team reminds me of Hurley’s in ‘92. Granted (pun intended) we were a more experienced group and could rely on an uber talented sophomore to run the team instead of an uber talented freshman when Bobby went out.

I think RJ will respond well at the point with some additional practices. Cam’s outside shot will become even more critical in a predictably slower offense. Hopefully Tre will be back sooner rather than later.