Tre Jones Shoulder Injury Vigil

[richardjackson199]

Will be season changing if he misses significant time

Over/Under on number of posts that say "it's over"?

But this is a big deal.

Injury Vigils getting contagious again

Sucks

[proelitedota]

Hope the team can help shoulder the defense when he is out.

[duke4ever19]

Hope the team can help shoulder the defense when he is out.

Yes. We can't just shrug off Tre's importance to this team.

[DU82]

Yes. We can't just shrug off Tre's importance to this team.

Guys, not something to joke about right now.

[Indoor66]

I like puns but this is not the time.

[DukeFanSince1990]

I feel sick.

[richardjackson199]

Guys, not something to joke about right now.

Agreed. Tre left the floor not moving right shoulder and in tears.

[NYBri]

Potential issues. Shoulder separation. Potential hyperextension. Worst case scenario is that there’s a break. Best case scenario is that he’s bruised and will be ready in a week.

[drummerdevil]

Tre officially will not return tonight. He seemed to be in an immense amount of pain when he left... this is not encouraging. Wishing you a speedy recovery, Tre.

[jv001]

I hate seeing these vigils because they sometimes don't turn out too well. Have we had a long vigil on DBR in one of our championship years? GoDuke!

[proelitedota]

Feels surreal. Let's hope he can return before mid February.

[DU82]

I hate seeing these vigils because they sometimes don't turn out too well. Have we had a long vigil on DBR in one of our championship years? GoDuke!

Boozer

[richardjackson199]

Boozer

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Boozer had an actual Vigil thread. I think Kyrie might have been the first one. That is comparable because that injury to our phenom point guard basically completely derailed a season where we previously looked like the best team in the country.

[jv001]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Boozer had an actual Vigil thread. I think Kyrie might have been the first one. That is comparable because that injury to our phenom point guard basically completely derailed a season where we previously looked like the best team in the country.

I think you are right richardjackson. GoDuke!

We should have won one in 2011 but Kyrie was out too long and not 100% when he came back.

[22JumpShots]

I just pray it isn't the collarbone. That's exactly what I did to mine along time ago.

When can we expect to know anything? Tomorrow?

[toughbuff1]

I hate seeing these vigils because they sometimes don't turn out too well. Have we had a long vigil on DBR in one of our championship years? GoDuke!

Pretty sure Jah when he sprained his ankle against UNC.

[WVDUKEFAN]

I just pray it isn't the collarbone. That's exactly what I did to mine along time ago.

When can we expect to know anything? Tomorrow?

I was hoping we might hear something on the post game press conference.

[djp10]

hoping it's just a 4-week actually joint injury

[Dukehky]

K said it was a "shoulder sprain"

[HereBeforeCoachK]

hoping it's just a 4-week actually joint injury

Hoping it's just four weeks? What do you know that no one else does?

[TruBlu]

hoping it's just a 4-week actually joint injury

Huh?!?

[Oriole Way]

We won't hear anything until tomorrow at the earliest. He won't have an MRI until tomorrow at the earliest.

In these situations, most players have an X-ray first. That will rule out (or confirm) any breaks or fractures. But the MRI is what will show if there's any soft tissue/ligament damage. Which, in all likelihood, there probably is.

We have no choice but to wait. We'll be extremely lucky if this is anything less than a 2-to-4-week injury.

[dukelifer]

K said it was a "shoulder sprain"
I doubt he plays Saturday.

[archand1]

I think you are right richardjackson. GoDuke!

We should have won one in 2011 but Kyrie was out too long and not 100% when he came back.

Kyrie dropped 28 when he returned. It was the fact Duke evolved without him and his return shook up the flow.

[flyingdutchdevil]

This is what we get for going vigil crazy. Zion should not have gotten a vigil.

Get well soon, Tre. Happy to take a few losses if you miss a few games.

[Dukehky]

I doubt he plays Saturday.

Yeah, no way. Only real hope there is that Cam goes nuts from deep.

[SCMatt33]

I just pray it isn't the collarbone. That's exactly what I did to mine along time ago.

When can we expect to know anything? Tomorrow?

That’s what I’m worried it is too. His shoulder was noticeably slumping and he wasn’t moving that arm. I broke my collarbone a few years ago and it looked exactly like that. And since it was a forward collision, you wouldn’t expect it to be something like a hyperextension or dislocation. There’s probably other things that could do that, but I don’t like the fact that he didn’t come out to the bench in the second half

[Troublemaker]

K said it was a "shoulder sprain"

Yes, Coach called it a "shoulder sprain" on postgame radio. (Not a doc, but this will likely have to be confirmed by MRI).

Harvard Health (https://www.health.harvard.edu/a_to_z/shoulder-sprain-a-to-z ) on shoulder sprain recoveries:

https://i.imgur.com/TMtQsk7.png

[jv001]

Kyrie dropped 28 when he returned. It was the fact Duke evolved without him and his return shook up the flow.

But Kyrie's on the ball defense was not the same, he couldn't move as quickly after his return and his return seemed to disrupt the offense. GoDuke!

[kAzE]

Please let it be a mild sprain. Please nothing torn or broken. Please.

[Dukehk]

But Kyrie's on the ball defense was not the same, he couldn't move as quickly after his return and his return seemed to disrupt the offense. GoDuke!

To be fair, his return from injury for Boston actually has had a similar affect to them as well!

[simplyluvin]

Praying for Tre. Assuming he is out and hoping that this is a mild sprain, we have winnable games all the way through UVA on the road a month from now. Would be a dream if Tre can come back before then.

[WiJoe]

no matter what Duke says about the injury, don't believe it.

[jipops]

And here I thought this might actually be the year that Duke wins a regular season ACC crown. Oh well...

[flyingdutchdevil]

And here I thought this might actually be the year that Duke wins a regular season ACC crown. Oh well...

As long as Bennett is around, that ain’t happening.

[moonpie23]

But Kyrie's on the ball defense was not the same, he couldn't move as quickly after his return and his return seemed to disrupt the offense. GoDuke!

also, at that time, Nolan was running the point like a boss......kyrie comes back in, and nolan is displaced, with some confusion.....it disrupted everything...

[uh_no]

So, you may all be happy to hear that during halftime, the hope was that Tre would be able to play in the second half. Obviously he did not come out to warm up. So at least that says to me that the injury was not so severe as to immediately preclude the possibility of his playing....but perhaps it means that they got some result back near the end of the half that DID preclude his return. Anyway, take from it what you will.

From a physician:

" I didn't see any deformity but maybe collar bone. By the look on his face I say no broken bone. Definitely not dislocated"

Though, how much you can diagnose from TV is of course questionable.

[texasdevil06]

Please let it be a mild sprain. Please nothing torn or broken. Please.

Adam Rowe tweeted that Coach K said no breaks, just a sprain and that Tre was in a "ton of pain."

[Dukehky]

K just said he'd be out for "a while"

Looks like we have a traditional vigil on our hands.

[djp10]

Huh?!?

sorry, should have prefaced with: as a pessimist...

in any case, it looked like he could barely move it. personal anecdote: I had a shoulder sprain sustained in somewhat similar fashion (chasing a loose ball) , and it wasn't nearly as immobilizing (could still raise my arm 45 degrees from my side); it took me ~3 weeks. but then again, I'm a baby.

if it's a fractured collarbone, he's probably out 4-6 weeks (unless his first name changed to Daniel). EDIT: looks like he avoided that—whew!

so let me rephrase: I hope he's back for UVA, but I REALLY hope he avoided anything longer than a month.

[uh_no]

Adam Rowe tweeted that Coach K said no breaks, just a sprain and that Tre was in a "ton of pain."

Oof. hopefully the (presumed) MRI comes back alright....even a partial separation isn't a joke.

[jipops]

As long as Bennett is around, that ain’t happening.

Fake classes u won it in ‘16 and ‘17. This team could have very well been K’s last chance.

[WVDUKEFAN]

Coach said he could be out for “awhile”. Damn. They will be releasing a statement later tonight or in the morning. The good thing is, it’s early January. Let’s just hope for the best.

[uh_no]

Coach said he could be out for “awhile”. Damn. They will be releasing a statement later tonight or in the morning. The good thing is, it’s early January. Let’s just hope for the best.

Though for K, that could be anything from 1 game to a season. Pretty sure it's his stock answer when asked about injury duration :D

[scottdude8]

My fear was a separated shoulder based on the hit. To hear that’s not the case is a relief. If it’s just a sprain my assumption is that makes it a weeks, not months, type of injury. If it’s mild he could even play through it potentially. So the worst case scenario hasn’t come to pass.

For those worried about his pain level: a couple of games ago I was sure UNCs Cam Johnson had torn his ACL the way he reacted to an awkward fall. Turns out it was a cramp and he was fine. All that’s to say the pain in the moment doesn’t directly correlate with the severity of the injury.

[dyedwab]

When it comes to injuries to our players, I just don't trust what our staff says. They are really, really cagey about stuff

I'm just hoping this isn't another Kyrie thing

[Troublemaker]

As long as Bennett is around, that ain’t happening.

Don't post stuff like this after Tre's injury. This team had a great chance to win the regular season until this injury. And as I recall, you didn't have the cojones to bet on UVA to win the regular season when I offered weeks ago.

[WiJoe]

When it comes to injuries to our players, I just don't trust what our staff says. They are really, really CAGEY about stuff

bingo!!

[CoachJ10]

How many injuries we have sustained in the last 10 yrs and how some of our season’s story lines could have changed so dramatically. Its not unfair to think we have at least 2 more championships in the last decade barring these major injuries.

[billy]

It goes without saying of course that we don't know. But hypothetically what is the prognosis of a separated shoulder (if that is what it is)? Would that be relatively good or bad news? Best case back in a few weeks? I have no clue. Thanks!


Sounds like it probably is a separated shoulder from what K said about it being a sprain post game. Separated shoulder = acromioclavicular (AC) sprain = AC separation. Without going into too much detail, most of the time it’s an “as tolerated” injury, in that once you can move the arm comfortably and “protect” yourself, you can play Only the most severe sprains need fixing surgically. A diagnosis of AC separation would be best case scenario in terms of expedience of return. Unlike many other injuries, accurate diagnosis can be made with physical exam and x-ray. Not that a MRI scan won’t be obtained, it likely will, just that it’s a pretty straightforward diagnosis. Nothing would surprise me regarding return date, if confirmed to be AC joint, from a few days to a few weeks.

[dukelifer]

Though for K, that could be anything from 1 game to a season. Pretty sure it's his stock answer when asked about injury duration :D

I would bet 3 weeks. Duke will need to find a way but they will not be as good- not even close without him.

[dukelifer]

How many injuries we have sustained in the last 10 yrs and how some of our season’s story lines could have changed so dramatically. Its not unfair to think we have at least 2 more championships in the last decade barring these major injuries.

To be fair- a number of teams could say that.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Don't post stuff like this after Tre's injury. This team had a great chance to win the regular season until this injury. And as I recall, you didn't have the cojones to bet on UVA to win the regular season when I offered weeks ago.

Thanks for the beer, by the way!

[duke4ever19]

Guys, not something to joke about right now.


I like puns but this is not the time.

Don't be sore about it, but yes, you are right. It's best to put the puns on ice for about one-to-two weeks.

[flyingdutchdevil]

To be fair- a number of teams could say that.

Yeah. I do think 2011 was as good as guaranteed, if there is such a thing in college hoops. That team was perfectly composed and all it took was a damn toe.

Also, any docs here (and not internet docs) who can comment more on a shoulder sprain? Ie what that actually means medically, do they usually come with partial tears, how long to heal, how devasting compared to other sports injuries, etc?

Shoulders are usually safe at Duke basketball, so I have no idea.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I would bet 3 weeks. Duke will need to find a way but they will not be as good- not even close without him.

True...but they might end up better getting him back than they would've been without the injury....

[Furniture]

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/01/14/duke-tre-jones-wrist-injury-collision-syracuse-locker-room

I opologise if I upset anyone with this but I just can’t help feeling the cuse player didn’t really make much effort to get the ball because at some point he knew he wouldn’t get it so I feel he really made a priority to protect himself whist Tre was just going for the ball. The Cuse player turned his back so there was only one player that would come out worse....Not him.

[richardjackson199]

Sounds like it probably is a separated shoulder from what K said about it being a sprain post game. Separated shoulder = acromioclavicular (AC) sprain = AC separation. Without going into too much detail, most of the time it’s an “as tolerated” injury, in that once you can move the arm comfortably and “protect” yourself, you can play Only the most severe sprains need fixing surgically. A diagnosis of AC separation would be best case scenario in terms of expedience of return. Unlike many other injuries, accurate diagnosis can be made with physical exam and x-ray. Not that a MRI scan won’t be obtained, it likely will, just that it’s a pretty straightforward diagnosis. Nothing would surprise me regarding return date, if confirmed to be AC joint, from a few days to a few weeks.

Thanks! This gives me more optimism than I had. Great info!

[dukelifer]

Yeah. I do think 2011 was as good as guaranteed, if there is such a thing in college hoops. That team was perfectly composed and all it took was a damn toe.

Also, any docs here (and not internet docs) who can comment more on a shoulder sprain? Ie what that actually means medically, do they usually come with partial tears, how long to heal, how devasting compared to other sports injuries, etc?

Shoulders are usually safe at Duke basketball, so I have no idea.

Of course Duke got Kyrie back for the big dance and then some kid went nuts in one game- got drafted 2nd- averaged 9 points in his career and is playing in Germany.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Sounds like it probably is a separated shoulder from what K said about it being a sprain post game. Separated shoulder = acromioclavicular (AC) sprain = AC separation. Without going into too much detail, most of the time it’s an “as tolerated” injury, in that once you can move the arm comfortably and “protect” yourself, you can play Only the most severe sprains need fixing surgically. A diagnosis of AC separation would be best case scenario in terms of expedience of return. Unlike many other injuries, accurate diagnosis can be made with physical exam and x-ray. Not that a MRI scan won’t be obtained, it likely will, just that it’s a pretty straightforward diagnosis. Nothing would surprise me regarding return date, if confirmed to be AC joint, from a few days to a few weeks.

Thanks billy. Love having docs on this board!

[dukelifer]

True...but they might end up better getting him back than they would've been without the injury...

We can only hope- never boring.

[CoachJ10]

if Cam has the flu...get everyone else on this team on Tamiflu stat. Thats the last thing we need going thru this team.

[jipops]

My non-informed speculation:

Tre is out for 4 weeks with a severe sprain.

UVA: loss
Pitt: nail biter win
Gtech: turnover riddled ugly win
Notre Dame: loss
St. Johns: loss (oof streak over. That will hurt!)
BC: win
UVA: loss

Tre comes back

Louisville: loss
NC State: win

Team back to normal.

So I’m estimating 4 additional conference losses coming up attributable to Tre being out. That puts us at no less than 5 total ACC losses. Not terrible but certainly out of the running for the title crown and out of the double bye. Now let’s see how wrong I am about all this. I’m very pessimistic about how this affects the season but I’m highly optimistic we get him back fully healthy and integrated with the team.

[uh_no]

I think the real vigil here is for Marek Dolezaj's psyche....while I'm sure the immediate effect was felt much more physically after attempting to take a charge on zion williamson, the prognosis for a full mental recovery is grim.

[dukelifer]

My non-informed speculation:

Tre is out for 4 weeks with a severe sprain.

UVA: loss
Pitt: nail biter win
Gtech: turnover riddled ugly win
Notre Dame: loss
St. Johns: loss (oof streak over. That will hurt!)
BC: win
UVA: loss

Tre comes back

Louisville: loss
NC State: win

Team back to normal.

So I’m estimating 4 additional conference losses coming up attributable to Tre being out. That puts us at no less than 5 total ACC losses. Not terrible but certainly out of the running for the title crown and out of the double bye. Now let’s see how wrong I am about all this. I’m very pessimistic about how this affects the season but I’m highly optimistic we get him back fully healthy and integrated with the team.

Could be. I think the regular season is probably not possible with Jones out - unless we get Fla State Cam in every game. The D, sadly, will not be the same. I was really enjoying watching that.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think the real vigil here is for Marek Dolezaj's psyche...while I'm sure the immediate effect was felt much more physically after attempting to take a charge on zion williamson, the prognosis for a full mental recovery is grim.

Maybe physical as well. I think he only played 1 min in th second half. And he looked like he was in a lot of pain

The physics of that hit was unreal. The kid got lifted off the ground with his feet initially planted! I really hope he’s okay and there is no long term impact.

[Rich]

Optimistic silver lining - we develop bench strength, new roles, and cohesion a la Bobby Hurley's broken ankle (1991 or 1992, national championship team) which allowed Grant Hill to develop PG skills and when Amile Jefferson developed skills defending the 5 when Jah hurt his foot (2015, national championship team). Tre comes back in plenty of time to integrate into the lineup before the NCAA tournament. Sure, we take some lumps in the meantime, but come Tourney time we have our top starters who are healthy and players with real game experience and stamina who can play with confidence off the bench. Plus our starters can easily shift roles for extended minutes if someone gets into foul trouble. Mark my words. You heard it hear first. This sucks right now, but as long as Tre can recover fully and rejoin the team in a matter of weeks, this may help in the long run.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Could be. I think the regular season is probably not possible with Jones out - unless we get Fla State Cam in every game. The D, sadly, will not be the same. I was really enjoying watching that.

Yeah. Tre’s impact on O is very positive, but it’s the D that will take a massive hit. If Tre is out 3-4 weeks with 1-2 weeks of reintegration, I think we’ll undoubtedly see a few more loses.

[uh_no]

Maybe physical as well. I think he only played 1 min in th second half. And he looked like he was in a lot of pain

The physics of that hit was unreal. The kid got lifted off the ground with his feet initially planted! I really hope he’s okay and there is no long term impact.

I of course hope he's not injured (and note he only plays 19 minutes a game anyway)....but maybe his sacrifice will deter those who succeed him.

[duke4ever19]

I think the real vigil here is for Marek Dolezaj's psyche...while I'm sure the immediate effect was felt much more physically after attempting to take a charge on zion williamson, the prognosis for a full mental recovery is grim.

The Zion Challenge: Video yourself taking a charge from a person of at least 270 pounds.

I think it should be the new viral sensation, though probably just as deadly as the Tide Pod Challenge of 2018 and not as good-intentioned as the ALS Ice Bucket Challenge of 2015.

I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't watch the heck out of a youtube compilation of people doing the Zion Challenge.

[dukelifer]

Yeah. Tre’s impact on O is very positive, but it’s the D that will take a massive hit. If Tre is out 3-4 weeks with 1-2 weeks of reintegration, I think we’ll undoubtedly see a few more loses.

Well it is all about the post season for this team- so the question is what kind of seed will Duke get. They still will be in the hunt for a 1 or a 2 but it just got harder.

[dyedwab]

Sounds like it probably is a separated shoulder from what K said about it being a sprain post game. Separated shoulder = acromioclavicular (AC) sprain = AC separation. Without going into too much detail, most of the time it’s an “as tolerated” injury, in that once you can move the arm comfortably and “protect” yourself, you can play Only the most severe sprains need fixing surgically. A diagnosis of AC separation would be best case scenario in terms of expedience of return. Unlike many other injuries, accurate diagnosis can be made with physical exam and x-ray. Not that a MRI scan won’t be obtained, it likely will, just that it’s a pretty straightforward diagnosis. Nothing would surprise me regarding return date, if confirmed to be AC joint, from a few days to a few weeks.

And...bingo

https://twitter.com/stevewisemanNC/status/1085022955170603008

[dukelion]

AC Joint separation per release.

[jipops]

Well it is all about the post season for this team- so the question is what kind of seed will Duke get. They still will be in the hunt for a 1 or a 2 but it just got harder.

I didn’t think about this. Losing out on a 1 seed is much more devastating than losing out on the ACC title. Duke teams of the last couple decades have fared much better as 1 seeds than anything lower. (duh)

[weezie]

So seriously not as bad as the whole joint sep right orthopods?

[uh_no]

So seriously not as bad as the whole joint sep right orthopods?

an AC separation is the join separation. it's where the bits of the clavicle and scapula meet above the ball of your humerous. We have no idea how bad it is. It can be anywhere from mild to total. I had a partial separation a couple years ago along with a broken acromion process. Even after the bone healed a couple months later, the joint was still tender to the touch.

So it could be anything....which is why it's indefinite. He could be back saturday, he could be done for the year.

[simplyluvin]

I didn’t think about this. Losing out on a 1 seed is much more devastating than losing out on the ACC title. Duke teams of the last couple decades have fared much better as 1 seeds than anything lower.

That’s the concern. All of our titles were a a number one except for our first. Most of our runner up team were also 1 seeds.

[Rich]

And...bingo

https://twitter.com/stevewisemanNC/status/1085022955170603008


How long does it take for a shoulder separation to heal?
Depending on how severe the injury is, it may heal adequately in two to three weeks. In severe cases, the shoulder may not heal without surgery.

https://www.scoi.com/patient-resources/education/ac-acromioclavicular-joint

[billy]

So seriously not as bad as the whole joint sep right orthopods?

It IS a separated joint, the acromioclavicular joint (albeit a relatively less important joint). It's a ligament injury of the small joint between the clavicle and the shoulder blade. It's easy to confuse shoulder separation (involves the AC joint) with a shoulder dislocation (involves the glenohumeral or ball-and-cup joint) - same general body area, very different ramifications.

Even in lacrosse, football or wrestling, an athlete with a painful but low-grade separated shoulder might play the next game. The fact that is confirmed to be an AC separation should be a great sign.

X-rays are needed for the correct classification (although MRI can substitute by visualizing the state of the ligaments). That said, looking at Jay Williams tweet of Tre walking off the court, it didn't look like a high grade separation, so, here's hoping for a speedy recovery and return! (Does this count as speculation, or informed speculation????)

[gep]

Optimistic silver lining - we develop bench strength, new roles, and cohesion a la Bobby Hurley's broken ankle (1991 or 1992, national championship team) which allowed Grant Hill to develop PG skills and when Amile Jefferson developed skills defending the 5 when Jah hurt his foot (2015, national championship team). Tre comes back in plenty of time to integrate into the lineup before the NCAA tournament. Sure, we take some lumps in the meantime, but come Tourney time we have our top starters who are healthy and players with real game experience and stamina who can play with confidence off the bench. Plus our starters can easily shift roles for extended minutes if someone gets into foul trouble. Mark my words. You heard it hear first. This sucks right now, but as long as Tre can recover fully and rejoin the team in a matter of weeks, this may help in the long run.

I agree... I'm also of the thinking that this will allow the *team* to develop. Hopefully Cam will be the Grant Hill PG... and lead this team.

[flyingdutchdevil]

It IS a separated joint, the acromioclavicular joint (albeit a relatively less important joint). It's a ligament injury of the small joint between the clavicle and the shoulder blade. It's easy to confuse shoulder separation (involves the AC joint) with a shoulder dislocation (involves the glenohumeral or ball-and-cup joint) - same general body area, very different ramifications.

Even in lacrosse, football or wrestling, an athlete with a painful but low-grade separated shoulder might play the next game. The fact that is confirmed to be an AC separation should be a great sign.

X-rays are needed for the correct classification (although MRI can substitute by visualizing the state of the ligaments). That said, looking at Jay Williams tweet of Tre walking off the court, it didn't look like a high grade separation, so, here's hoping for a speedy recovery and return! (Does this count as speculation, or informed speculation????)

This is as informed speculation as you can get. Thanks!

[Furniture]

I think the real vigil here is for Marek Dolezaj's psyche...while I'm sure the immediate effect was felt much more physically after attempting to take a charge on zion williamson, the prognosis for a full mental recovery is grim.


https://mobile.twitter.com/RealJayWilliams/status/1084971899828998144

[arydolphin]

if Cam has the flu...get everyone else on this team on Tamiflu stat. Thats the last thing we need going thru this team.

Yeah, that's not how it works (and Tamiflu isn't a great drug anyways, but that's another story). Disclosure: I have an MD behind my name.

This is for the "at least it's not broken" camp: if it was a broken clavicle, there's a pretty defined timeline to that one, it's about 6 weeks which would be start of March for a return. AC joint separation, as others have already discussed on here, means that at the AC (acromion-to-clavicle) joint, the ligament connecting those 2 bones has torn. There are degrees of severity to the tear that can occur, and there will be oceanfront property in Durham before anyone involved with the program releases the information on the degree of the AC joint separation. Thus you get the uncertainty of how long he will be out, which could be anywhere from a couple of weeks to the entire season. When a team states that a guy is going to be out "indefinitely" as Duke has already done (and I highly doubt they got an MRI on Jones tonight), they know that it's not a short-term injury.

His return will be determined by how quickly he gain regain normal range-of-motion as well as his pain tolerance. Don't forget this aspect of it too: it's his right shoulder, so it will impact his shooting and dribbling more than if it was his left shoulder (aka non-dominant side).

[LasVegas]

I swear these indefinite timeline for healing injuries hit Duke so hard. It just sucks. Hoping it’s a very minor injury and we see Tre real soon.

[frb]

not good but Cam Reddish will be the primary facilitator now in a point forward type role like Winslow is doing now with the Miami Heat. Cam and Alex in the backcourt.. Barrett, Zion/White, Javin/Marques in the front court. I think this will make better use of Cam's all around abilities instead of just being a shooter.

Zion can even bring the ball up sometimes.. like Anthony Mason 1993 Knicks.

[gep]

Yeah, that's not how it works (and Tamiflu isn't a great drug anyways, but that's another story). Disclosure: I have an MD behind my name.

This is for the "at least it's not broken" camp: if it was a broken clavicle, there's a pretty defined timeline to that one, it's about 6 weeks which would be start of March for a return. AC joint separation, as others have already discussed on here, means that at the AC (acromion-to-clavicle) joint, the ligament connecting those 2 bones has torn. There are degrees of severity to the tear that can occur, and there will be oceanfront property in Durham before anyone involved with the program releases the information on the degree of the AC joint separation. Thus you get the uncertainty of how long he will be out, which could be anywhere from a couple of weeks to the entire season. When a team states that a guy is going to be out "indefinitely" as Duke has already done (and I highly doubt they got an MRI on Jones tonight), they know that it's not a short-term injury.

His return will be determined by how quickly he gain regain normal range-of-motion as well as his pain tolerance. Don't forget this aspect of it too: it's his right shoulder, so it will impact his shooting and dribbling more than if it was his left shoulder (aka non-dominant side).

You read my mind... this was my question... I thought it was his right shoulder. So it will affect dribbling and shooting... but what about defense? Staying in front and harassing the ball handler shouldn't be much affected? but what about steals... are his steals mostly with his right or left hand....:confused:

[devildeac]

It IS a separated joint, the acromioclavicular joint (albeit a relatively less important joint). It's a ligament injury of the small joint between the clavicle and the shoulder blade. It's easy to confuse shoulder separation (involves the AC joint) with a shoulder dislocation (involves the glenohumeral or ball-and-cup joint) - same general body area, very different ramifications.

Even in lacrosse, football or wrestling, an athlete with a painful but low-grade separated shoulder might play the next game. The fact that is confirmed to be an AC separation should be a great sign.

X-rays are needed for the correct classification (although MRI can substitute by visualizing the state of the ligaments). That said, looking at Jay Williams tweet of Tre walking off the court, it didn't look like a high grade separation, so, here's hoping for a speedy recovery and return! (Does this count as speculation, or informed speculation????)

Thanks, billy.

I hope I never have to explain loss of consciousness or a cardiac arrest that happened during a Duke game :eek:.

[devildeac]

When it comes to injuries to our players, I just don't trust what our staff says. They are really, really cagey about stuff

I'm just hoping this isn't another Kyrie thing

Friend to orthopedic surgeon inquiring about Kyrie's injury: "So doc, on a scale of 1-3 on the severity of a turf toe injury, how bad was it?"

Ortho surgeon: "5."

:eek::eek:

Let's hope not.

[billy]

Thanks, billy.

I hope I never have to explain loss of consciousness or a cardiac arrest that happened during a Duke game :eek:.

Do fans count? :p

Can someone spork DD for me? I need to spread some more comments around....

[billy]

This is for the "at least it's not broken" camp: if it was a broken clavicle, there's a pretty defined timeline to that one, it's about 6 weeks which would be start of March for a return.

Sort of??? Daniel Jones returned 3 weeks after a clavicle fracture surgery (open reduction and internal fixation, to be medically accurate). As you pointed out, LOTS of variables with almost any injury.

[weezie]

It IS a separated joint, the acromioclavicular joint (albeit a relatively less important joint). It's a ligament injury of the small joint between the clavicle and the shoulder blade. It's easy to confuse shoulder separation (involves the AC joint) with a shoulder dislocation (involves the glenohumeral or ball-and-cup joint) - same general body area, very different ramifications.

Even in lacrosse, football or wrestling, an athlete with a painful but low-grade separated shoulder might play the next game. The fact that is confirmed to be an AC separation should be a great sign.

X-rays are needed for the correct classification (although MRI can substitute by visualizing the state of the ligaments). That said, looking at Jay Williams tweet of Tre walking off the court, it didn't look like a high grade separation, so, here's hoping for a speedy recovery and return! (Does this count as speculation, or informed speculation????)


That's what she said. But seriously thank you. We were thinking Tre was likely hustled straight over to Duke Hospital for the x-rays/MRI during first half.

[arydolphin]

Sort of??? Daniel Jones returned 3 weeks after a clavicle fracture surgery (open reduction and internal fixation, to be medically accurate). As you pointed out, LOTS of variables with almost any injury.

I was accounting for natural healing of the clavicle, not a Tony Romo or Daniel Jones situation where they have an operation to reduce the fracture and speed up healing.

[devildeac]

Do fans count? :p

No. You're on your own at home, but we can discuss pre/post-op sometime.

;)

[uh_no]

X-rays are needed for the correct classification (although MRI can substitute by visualizing the state of the ligaments). That said, looking at Jay Williams tweet of Tre walking off the court, it didn't look like a high grade separation, so, here's hoping for a speedy recovery and return! (Does this count as speculation, or informed speculation????)

My buddy thought the same thing watching it....he put his money on him being back saturday....but he also rode his bike up mount evans with a torn ACL.....soooo YMMV....

But either way, good to have multiple doctors at least visually thinking the same thing watching. Thanks for your opinions!

[robed deity]

Impossible to know specifics and every injury is different, but Kennard had a similarly labeled injury this season and missed about a month.

[Dukehk]

So I did a simple google and this is what I came up with:

Most patients with acromioclavicular joint injury start to feel better within a few days or a week of the injury. However, full ligament healing will take at least six weeks.

The patient is allowed to return to sports when there is full and painless range of motion, no more tenderness when the AC joint is touched, and manual traction does not cause pain. This usually takes about 2 weeks for a grade I injury, 6 weeks for a grade II injury, and up to 12 weeks for a grade III injury.

Consistent with what all the MD's and physicians above me have stated, the recovery time will depend on the severity of the injury - which will probably never be made public. Lets just hope Tre is able to come back in 1 month or so and get tuned up for the Tournament.

It just feels like all our nightmares are coming true. The one guy we couldnt afford injury to, has been injured. Its just a real bad run of injuries almost every damn year!

[elvis14]

So I did a simple google and this is what I came up with:

Most patients with acromioclavicular joint injury start to feel better within a few days or a week of the injury. However, full ligament healing will take at least six weeks.

The patient is allowed to return to sports when there is full and painless range of motion, no more tenderness when the AC joint is touched, and manual traction does not cause pain. This usually takes about 2 weeks for a grade I injury, 6 weeks for a grade II injury, and up to 12 weeks for a grade III injury.
Consistent with what all the MD's and physicians above me have stated, the recovery time will depend on the severity of the injury - which will probably never be made public. Lets just hope Tre is able to come back in 1 month or so and get tuned up for the Tournament.

It just feels like all our nightmares are coming true. The one guy we couldnt afford injury to, has been injured. Its just a real bad run of injuries almost every damn year!

I had an AC joint injury 22 months ago. I still don't have full and painless range of motion, still have some tenderness and if I lean on my left elbow too long it hurts. I hope Tre has a grade I injury (I did not and probably should have opted for surgery).

[jipops]

not good but Cam Reddish will be the primary facilitator now in a point forward type role like Winslow is doing now with the Miami Heat. Cam and Alex in the backcourt.. Barrett, Zion/White, Javin/Marques in the front court. I think this will make better use of Cam's all around abilities instead of just being a shooter.
.

This is the 2nd time I’ve seen this suggested and I don’t think it makes a lot sense. Granted there aren’t many options. But putting a turnover prone player like Cam in charge of facilitating seems like a bad idea. I would much rather see Zion and Barrett handle this with only a few dashes of Goldwire. I think we can count on both the offense and defense being pretty meek for awhile now. Toss the current kenpom out the window.

[accfanfrom1970]

He’s not a guard I know, but if Trey is out an extended time does K rethink the Baker redshirt?

[Oriole Way]

not good but Cam Reddish will be the primary facilitator now in a point forward type role like Winslow is doing now with the Miami Heat. Cam and Alex in the backcourt.. Barrett, Zion/White, Javin/Marques in the front court. I think this will make better use of Cam's all around abilities instead of just being a shooter.

Zion can even bring the ball up sometimes.. like Anthony Mason 1993 Knicks.

Nope. Barrett will be our primary ballhandler.

Wishing Tre a speedy recovery. But I fear our entire season was jeopardized with his injury.

Tonight also demonstrated how much we need a point guard next season if Tre doesn't return. Goldwire will never be an adequate option for significant minutes at the point.

[Dukehk]

Guys I feel sick to my stomach about this. Honestly when Tre went down I was in shock for about 5 minutes. Kept telling myself, this cant be happening again.

Its the same feeling I had when Kyrie went down because of that big buffoon from butler, matt Howard (coincidence much?).

I'm really praying that Tre's injury isnt that serious and wont keep him out too long. But I just can't get this feeling out of my gut that history is repeating itself and we are potentially being robbed of a Championship season.

Anyone else feeling down as well?

Ugh.

[proelitedota]

I'm just feeling rage. Hard to explain it.

[CajunDevil]

Injuries happen I know but this is horrible and I cried myself to sleep only to wake up 3 hours later to write this. Kyrie was out 3 weeks with a grade 3 and CP3 missed 4 weeks with a grade 3 AC joint separation a few years back. Here’s how I’m looking at it: (1) we won’t peak too early, but we need him back in 3-5 week time frame to not miss not peaking at all, (2) this may give AOC and potentially Joey Baker some run and confidence, (3) this is so maddening, (4) Tre Jones is tough as nails and if anyone can recover quickly and come back to dominate its Tre.

[wavedukefan70s]

Guys I feel sick to my stomach about this. Honestly when Tre went down I was in shock for about 5 minutes. Kept telling myself, this cant be happening again.

Its the same feeling I had when Kyrie went down because of that big buffoon from butler, matt Howard (coincidence much?).

I'm really praying that Tre's injury isnt that serious and wont keep him out too long. But I just can't get this feeling out of my gut that history is repeating itself and we are potentially being robbed of a Championship season.

Anyone else feeling down as well?

Ugh.

No I had a resection(cut off the end of my clavicle)of my ac joint .I was back to full activity in 6 weeks .I was actually fine at 5.i use my shoulder joints 10 hrs a day.but I need 12 more years for my PhD. But I have faith.plus hes young .kids heal faster.

[WVDUKEFAN]

Just a question here - if he was done for the season, do you think they would have announced it as such?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Just a question here - if he was done for the season, do you think they would have announced it as such?

Probably not. Also, it seems unlikely that they would have a certain diagnosis as such in under 12 hours.

[dukelifer]

Guys I feel sick to my stomach about this. Honestly when Tre went down I was in shock for about 5 minutes. Kept telling myself, this cant be happening again.

Its the same feeling I had when Kyrie went down because of that big buffoon from butler, matt Howard (coincidence much?).

I'm really praying that Tre's injury isnt that serious and wont keep him out too long. But I just can't get this feeling out of my gut that history is repeating itself and we are potentially being robbed of a Championship season.

Anyone else feeling down as well?

Ugh.

First- this Duke team is very good but there are many very good teams out there. Sports makes us hopeful but usually reality sets in. Duke still has a chance to win it all - but the chances probably went down with this injury. K will see it as an opportunity for growth but the focus of the basketball universe will shift away from Duke for a while. If this had happened in early March - the post-season would be in peril - but adjustments can still be made and we will see. Next game - Duke will be underdogs. We will see how they respond.

[1991 duke law]

The only answer I have for those who are crying is that this is only basketball and – if you want to look at it from the perspective of the person that matters the most – Tre will recover and will be fine. Don’t get me wrong – this is infuriating as his injury takes this team from a championship contender to a very good team. I have no visions of this team making a deep run without Tre. But I learned long ago not to live and die with Duke basketball - although it took a long time to get there.

So my daughter (a UVA student) and I will attend the game on Saturday in Cameron. And I will have a strong hedge with the Hoos looking great - but unless Tre gets healthy, my dream of a duke uva championship game is in jeopardy.

[Dukebasketball2020]

I seperated my shoulder sliding into second base playing softball. I was in a lot of pain for about 3 weeks, but kept playing on it. It would pop back out every now and then that was two years ago and I didn't get surgery on it, and I still have pain from time to time depending on the different movements you make.

[DBFAN]

Could someone who knows more answer this. If there is no surgery required, does that not rule out a grade 3 separation. It just seems like from the pictures in the link, in the article on front page, that grade 3 is when ligaments get torn, and that’s why surgery is needed. I don’t really have any insight on this, just trying to figure it out

[Natty_B]

“Indefinitely” is Duke speak for a long long time - like Jefferson (never returned), Kelly (back for penultimate game) and Kyrie (back in tournament). When Bagley missed 3-4 games last year he was always coming back “soon.” Figuring this injury has a Jefferson, Kelly, Kyrie vibe.

[WVDUKEFAN]

I'd say our information on updates is going to be limited to the insiders on this board and what little bit we can get from the post game press conferences. After further diagnosis, if they decide the injury requires surgery or is season ending, I think there will be an official press release to update the information from "out indefinitely" to "out for season" or something along those lines.

[BeachBlueDevil]

This one stings.... Tre was/is the most important piece of this puzzle. His lock down defense, silky smooth passes, and leadership are all going to be missed. However I keep telling myself we still have 3 top 5 recruits out there on the floor with solid role players. No doubt Tre will be missed and I hope he's back by mid Feb for the stretch run...The 15 team didn't win the regular season title or the tournament title... But we all know they won the National Championship. While the first two are nice, the last one is what we all really care about.

[rdearth15]

“Indefinitely” is Duke speak for a long long time - like Jefferson (never returned), Kelly (back for penultimate game) and Kyrie (back in tournament). When Bagley missed 3-4 games last year he was always coming back “soon.” Figuring this injury has a Jefferson, Kelly, Kyrie vibe.



There was the time when Grayson was suspended "Indefinitely" and that was only 8 days and 1 game. However, I am expecting this to fall in line with the situations you mentioned. I am thinking, best case scenario, is a return the week of the ACC Tournament. That is 8 weeks away. Glad we have Coach K to figure out how to tweak everything to get the most out of the healthy pieces of the lineup.

[simplyluvin]

Preparing myself for the fact that our dream season may be over depending on the severity of the injury. Kyrie’s Injury was a killer to a team that Coach said would have gone undefeated mainly because Kyrie came back too late. I can’t remember a Duke team losing a PG and ultimately doing well since 92.

[billy]

Could someone who knows more answer this. If there is no surgery required, does that not rule out a grade 3 separation. It just seems like from the pictures in the link, in the article on front page, that grade 3 is when ligaments get torn, and that’s why surgery is needed. I don’t really have any insight on this, just trying to figure it out

I'm not sure where the "no surgery" comment regarding Tre came from; if true, it doesn't rule out a grade 3 injury. Grade 3 injuries fall into a grey area where there's no clear benefit from surgery vs. conservative care; generally conservative care is the initial treatment and surgery reserved for those that continue to have symptoms later. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule.

[billy]

I choose to be optimistic, especially after Billy’s posts. However, isn’t the info your source shared already refuted with the official announcement of an AC separation?

A low-grade AC separation could be described fairly accurately by a bruised shoulder

[dahntaysdawg]

A low-grade AC separation could be described fairly accurately by a bruised shoulder

Thanks Billy. Really enjoy your posts. Please add what you can as more info becomes available.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

There's an awful lot of instant shoulder experts who are reading an amazing amount from basically two pieces of information.

[DBFAN]

I'm not sure where the "no surgery" comment regarding Tre came from; if true, it doesn't rule out a grade 3 injury. Grade 3 injuries fall into a grey area where there's no clear benefit from surgery vs. conservative care; generally conservative care is the initial treatment and surgery reserved for those that continue to have symptoms later. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule.

Front page article says no surgery is required that is why I was asking

[Pghdukie]

Like all injuries, rehab is most important. I believe Duke will instill a very solid program to speed the process.

Can we get Tre's brother Ty to comeback and fill in ? They look similar and Ty has 3yrs of eligibility left !

[Rich]

Thanks Billy. Really enjoy your posts. Please add what you can as more info becomes available.

What we really need is an insider who can get Billy the X-ray and MRI reports! I hate to be a pessimist and love the idea of a "bruised shoulder," but without seeing the radiology reports, Billy is just guessing along with the rest of us.

[UrinalCake]

The question for us as fans is whether our team can win enough games to still be a 2 or 3 seed in the tournament, assuming Jones is able to return this season. And then how much rust/conditioning he’ll have to deal with when he returns. We still have a lot of talent on this roster and should be favored in all of our games except for UVAx2, @VT, @UNC. Everyone else in the country would kill to have the top three picks in next year’s draft, and nobody’s going to shed a tear for us because we have to surround them with role players.

It’s still relatively early, so even if he’s out for say a month we still have plenty of time to get him reintegrated.

[DBFAN]

I think it’s also a bit of over reacting by Duke fans right now. While Goldwire is not On the same level as Tre, let’s not forget he was recruited by K for a reason. We can’t assume that because he couldn’t come in immediately last night and right the ship, that he can’t be a very serviceable player. 5 of our next 6 games are very winnable without Tre. UVA without Tre would obviously be the one we may not win. But it’s important to remember that 18 and 19 year olds don’t always adjust as quickly to the situation that falls on them. Then consider they were also expected to do it against a team who plays nothing but zone. All I’m saying is just be patient

[CDu]

I think it’s also a bit of over reacting by Duke fans right now. While Goldwire is not On the same level as Tre, let’s not forget he was recruited by K for a reason. We can’t assume that because he couldn’t come in immediately last night and right the ship, that he can’t be a very serviceable player. 5 of our next 6 games are very winnable without Tre. UVA without Tre would obviously be the one we may not win. But it’s important to remember that 18 and 19 year olds don’t always adjust as quickly to the situation that falls on them. Then consider they were also expected to do it against a team who plays nothing but zone. All I’m saying is just be patient

Worth noting that Andre Buckner was also recruited by Coach K for a reason, and was probably similarly rated coming out of high school. I would be very surprised if Goldwire will be asked to step in at PG. Nothing in his play to this point suggests he's here to provide significant minutes at the ACC level. He's a practice player, and an important one. But I'd have to believe that the PG role will be shared by the remaining 3 freshmen, with Barrett doing the heavy lifting.

[nmduke2001]

The question for us as fans is whether our team can win enough games to still be a 2 or 3 seed in the tournament, assuming Jones is able to return this season. And then how much rust/conditioning he’ll have to deal with when he returns. We still have a lot of talent on this roster and should be favored in all of our games except for UVAx2, @VT, @UNC. Everyone else in the country would kill to have the top three picks in next year’s draft, and nobody’s going to shed a tear for us because we have to surround them with role players.

It’s still relatively early, so even if he’s out for say a month we still have plenty of time to get him reintegrated.

I think that we can still be a 2 seed in the ACC. If Tre comes back we can win the ACC tournament and have a 1 seed in the big tournament. I believe this for several reasons: Cam didn't play last night. As poorly as he has played offensively over the last several weeks, his defense was still great. The FSU game might have been the boost he needed offensively. Jack went 0-for. RJ was 8-30! The team was 9-43 from three. Syracuse had career games from 2 players and an 80 foot make AND we were a missed free throw from winning. Add Cam back in and the defense gets better. Average shooting from our guys and the offense gets better. I think we win a lot of games.

[Rich]

I think it’s also a bit of over reacting by Duke fans right now. While Goldwire is not On the same level as Tre, let’s not forget he was recruited by K for a reason. We can’t assume that because he couldn’t come in immediately last night and right the ship, that he can’t be a very serviceable player. 5 of our next 6 games are very winnable without Tre. UVA without Tre would obviously be the one we may not win. But it’s important to remember that 18 and 19 year olds don’t always adjust as quickly to the situation that falls on them. Then consider they were also expected to do it against a team who plays nothing but zone. All I’m saying is just be patient

Goldwire wasn't recruited as much as he was selected and plucked from Eastern Kentucky because we needed a serviceable backup at PG and for practices.

https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2017/5/5/15553922/duke-recruiting-the-jordan-goldwire-backstory

[DBFAN]

Worth noting that Andre Buckner was also recruited by Coach K for a reason, and was probably similarly rated coming out of high school. I would be very surprised if Goldwire will be asked to step in at PG. Nothing in his play to this point suggests he's here to provide significant minutes at the ACC level. He's a practice player, and an important one. But I'd have to believe that the PG role will be shared by the remaining 3 freshmen, with Barrett doing the heavy lifting.

There is also talk of Reddish sharing some of those duties. My point isn’t necessarily Goldwire stepping in but that gauging teams ability by the outcome of last night isn’t too fair. They were shocked like us, but with time to prepare for games without Tre is different than doing it on the fly

[Avvocato]

Agree with above that with possibly the top three picks in this year’s draft and McDonalds all Americans/top 50 talent in reserve roles, no one is or should feel sorry for us or will cut us some slack. It just means we need to adapt. We did when Hurley went down, when Grant Hill went down, when Elton brand went down, when Boozer went down, when Kyrie went down, etc. One of K’s greatest strengths is adapting to the talent he has available. Although Goldwire will see some time, I just expect to see RJ and Cam handle the ball more, even Zion bringing it up some time. The biggest issue will be tightening up the defense without Tre. I don’t expect Jack White to do many more 0-10’s from three. We will adapt. The ACC is tough but we will do our thing. Let’s man up and go attack these Wahoos. Can’t wait for Saturday.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Let’s man up and go attack these Wahoos. Can’t wait for Saturday.

This. All day.

Let's go get UVA.

[rsvman]

If Cam is well and nobody else gets whatever he has/had, we might be surprisingly competitive, even against UVa, with or without Tre, IMO.

Not writing off this team or this season regardless of the severity of Tre's injury or the length of time he requires to get back to playing well.

[Reddevil]

Nationally most of the talk about Duke's freshmen revolve around Zion, RJ, and Reddish which is understandable, but we all know that Tre is every bit as good and important to the team as anyone - maybe the most important. He is one of if not the best defenders in the nation. His on-ball defense is what makes Duke's M2M work so well. It is not over by any means, but this is devastating in the short run. I feel bad for the young man, the team, and the coaching staff. Heck, I feel bad for the game of basketball. One of its premiere machines is not optimal right now and basketball fans everywhere are diminished whether they realize it or not. You can possibly scheme around this loss to cobble together some wins, but there is no replacing Tre Jones. Here's to quick healing on hopefully a minor separation. (Tips pretend glass because I am at work) Best wishes Tre! Rest, stay hydrated, take in the Duke medical care, and we hope to see you in uniform soon!

[Bluegrassdevil1]

Whiles Jones is certainly the "straw that stirs the drink," the contents of the Duke beverage are still pretty strong, and more than capable of being successful.

Duke is undeniably better with Jones in the lineup, but reality is what it is, and I suspect having the top two draft picks, a solid supporting cast, and possibly the greatest MMB coach ever, will help Duke get over this unwanted hangover.

[simplyluvin]

If Cam is well and nobody else gets whatever he has/had, we might be surprisingly competitive, even against UVa, with or without Tre, IMO.

Not writing off this team or this season regardless of the severity of Tre's injury or the length of time he requires to get back to playing well.

I feel like Cam will be the key this Saturday (and RJ shooting better than 8 for 30). Not to jump the gun here, but pack line defense, similar to the Cuse zone, exposes our biggest weakness right now, which is perimeter shooting. It will be very interesting to see how Coach gets Zion space down low, but pack line, which basically eliminates any low post spacing, could very well be kryptonite to Z. Go Duke, and let's get everyone back healthy!

[johnb]

There's an awful lot of instant shoulder experts who are reading an amazing amount from basically two pieces of information.


The shoulder is very complicated (or so I recall from gross anatomy), but there are a limited number of ways that Tre's shoulder might have been injured, though a good bit of variation in regards to recovering to play at the highest level. The official information is specific enough that educated guesses are relatively straightforward (ie, while personal shoulder anecdotes may not be relevant, billy's comments strike me as applicable and correct; we'll have to wait and see on the recovery period).

In contrast, Coach Cut would have been more likely to leave it at "upper body" injury and then discuss a chip on the shoulder, a foot in a mouth, or cold feet--especially the night of the injury. But that's just off the top of my head.

I'll add that just before the injury, I had a premonition that something bad was going to happen--I'd never quite heard Bilas wax so poetic about a player's defense or his value to the team, and he did so just prior to yet another steal or great feed.
I kinda wished he'd switch to discussing something else.

May Tre's 2019 shoulder resemble Boozer's 2001 foot rather than Kyrie's 2010-11 toe.

[Natty_B]

Looking at the schedule: five weeks until first UNC game. Seven weeks means a return for the last two games of the regular season. Lot of days, to heal, before mid March.

[CameronBornAndBred]

If Cam is well and nobody else gets whatever he has/had, we might be surprisingly competitive, even against UVa, with or without Tre, IMO.

Not writing off this team or this season regardless of the severity of Tre's injury or the length of time he requires to get back to playing well.

Exactly. I loved how we played yesterday with two starters out. It would have been a very different story had Cam been in. We have been down VIPs before and succeeded.

[dukebluesincebirth]

I know we can survive without Tre, but what kills us is the lost points and accumulation of fouls vs. opponents when we're in transition. Transition is this team's forte, and the best way we attack the other team. It all started with Tre's on-the-ball defensive pressure. We have no one who can equal that. So steals, dunks, and fouls on the other team will be less. Less transition dunks equal less momentum for Duke, and more of a half court game in which teams have a better shot of hanging around. Less fouls on the other team mean less free throws for us (maybe good or bad?), and more of the opponents' better players staying on the court longer. It's not over, but Tre's impact on this team is immense in many ways. If a team gets hot shooting from the outside and we go a bit cold, not having Tre makes a loss much more possible. This puts such a bad taste in my mouth and ruins my whole week. Dammit.

[aivroadstr]

Luke Kennard had a sprained AC joint last year with the Pistons. He was out for 5 weeks.

[kAzE]

Worth noting that Andre Buckner was also recruited by Coach K for a reason, and was probably similarly rated coming out of high school. I would be very surprised if Goldwire will be asked to step in at PG. Nothing in his play to this point suggests he's here to provide significant minutes at the ACC level. He's a practice player, and an important one. But I'd have to believe that the PG role will be shared by the remaining 3 freshmen, with Barrett doing the heavy lifting.

Why not try Cam Reddish at point guard? I saw it mentioned up thread (but I can't find the post now), but Cam ran point quite often in AAU and even at times for the U19 USA squad. I know it's only a one game sample size, but it seems like RJ is much less efficient as a scorer while also being the primary ball handler.

The Tre injury could be good for Cam in the long run. No doubt, he's been a sloppy ball handler to this point in the season. He's has numerous plays where he's committed turnovers because of sloppy passes and mishandling the ball, but he's the most naturally gifted dribbler of the 3 remaining freshman, and I think putting the ball in his hands consistently could help him get into a rhythm and allow him to show some skills that he hasn't tapped into yet for this team.

I'm not 100% sure about it yet, but I think Cam could be the best option at point guard.

[CDu]

Why not try Cam Reddish at point guard? I saw it mentioned up thread (but I can't find the post now), but Cam ran point quite often in AAU and even at times for the U19 USA squad. I know it's only a one game sample size, but it seems like RJ is much less efficient as a scorer while also being the primary ball handler.

The Tre injury could be good for Cam in the long run. No doubt, he's been a sloppy ball handler to this point in the season. He's has numerous plays where he's committed turnovers because of sloppy passes and mishandling the ball, but I think putting the ball in his hands consistently could help him get into a rhythm and allow him to show some skills that he hasn't tapped into yet for this team.

I'm not 100% sure about it yet, but I think Cam could be the best option at point guard.

Mainly because Reddish hasn't looked terribly comfortable handling the ball this year. Yes, he handled the ball in AAU and sometimes for U19s. But that was against much lesser competition.

To be clear, I think Reddish will get a decent share of ballhandling duties too. But Barrett has been the secondary ballhandler so far this season whenever Jones has sat, so I would expect him to assume the primary ballhandler role with Reddish as the secondary ballhandler.

[jv001]

Why not try Cam Reddish at point guard? I saw it mentioned up thread (but I can't find the post now), but Cam ran point quite often in AAU and even at times for the U19 USA squad. I know it's only a one game sample size, but it seems like RJ is much less efficient as a scorer while also being the primary ball handler.

The Tre injury could be good for Cam in the long run. No doubt, he's been a sloppy ball handler to this point in the season. He's has numerous plays where he's committed turnovers because of sloppy passes and mishandling the ball, but he's the most naturally gifted dribbler of the 3 remaining freshman, and I think putting the ball in his hands consistently could help him get into a rhythm and allow him to show some skills that he hasn't tapped into yet for this team.

I'm not 100% sure about it yet, but I think Cam could be the best option at point guard.

After Cam's performance against the Noles where he seemed to be getting back to form, I don't know if putting that much pressure on him might make him take a step back. Cam's ball handling has been bad for most of the season. He's lost the handle on balls that the opponent has not even touched. I think RJ is the man for the job as he had 9 assists and only 1 turn over last night. However his shot was off but most of his 3s were wide open. GoDuke!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Why not try Cam Reddish at point guard? I saw it mentioned up thread (but I can't find the post now), but Cam ran point quite often in AAU and even at times for the U19 USA squad. I know it's only a one game sample size, but it seems like RJ is much less efficient as a scorer while also being the primary ball handler.

The Tre injury could be good for Cam in the long run. No doubt, he's been a sloppy ball handler to this point in the season. He's has numerous plays where he's committed turnovers because of sloppy passes and mishandling the ball, but he's the most naturally gifted dribbler of the 3 remaining freshman, and I think putting the ball in his hands consistently could help him get into a rhythm and allow him to show some skills that he hasn't tapped into yet for this team.

I'm not 100% sure about it yet, but I think Cam could be the best option at point guard.

Absolutely agree with you. I love the idea of Cam at PG. Goldwire clearly isn't ready (and the idea of UVa coming at him on D and attacking him on O is frightening).

With RJ, I'm conflicted. He did a fine job bringing the ball up, but I have no idea if his bad 3pt shooting was due to being so much on the ball (rather than catch-and-shoot) or whether it was just an off-day.

[azzefkram]

Mainly because Reddish hasn't looked terribly comfortable handling the ball this year. Yes, he handled the ball in AAU and sometimes for U19s. But that was against much lesser competition.

To be clear, I think Reddish will get a decent share of ballhandling duties too. But Barrett has been the secondary ballhandler so far this season whenever Jones has sat, so I would expect him to assume the primary ballhandler role with Reddish as the secondary ballhandler.

Yeah, Cam as the primary ballhandler would be adventurous. Plus I think he's the best 3 point threat of our regulars. I'd guess Duke will have a bit of PG by committee with Barrett taking the lead.

[elvis14]

As I look for a silver lining in this injury situation, I don't have to look very far. I look at Alex. AOC may really benefit from playing more. Obviously, we have no idea how long Tre's going to be out but if AOC gets significantly more minutes, I think we might see Alex step up. Yesterday showed that AOC can be a great asset (4-8 from 3) but that he has some areas for improvement (a few bad turnovers and he's not a great defender and he passed up shots he should have taken). The silver lining in all of this is that if we get growth form AOC while Tre is out and the Tre comes back strong we will be better than ever (even better than if he had not been injured).

I know, I know, but one can hope and try to find some positives.

[NYBri]

We have the GOAT at the end of the bench. I'm sure he will come up with a pretty good plan B. :cool:

[Steven43]

As I look for a silver lining in this injury situation, I don't have to look very far. I look at Alex. AOC may really benefit from playing more. Obviously, we have no idea how long Tre's going to be out but if AOC gets significantly more minutes, I think we might see Alex step up. Yesterday showed that AOC can be a great asset (4-8 from 3) but that he has some areas for improvement (a few bad turnovers and he's not a great defender and he passed up shots he should have taken). The silver lining in all of this is that if we get growth form AOC while Tre is out and the Tre comes back strong we will be better than ever (even better than if he had not been injured).

I know, I know, but one can hope and try to find some positives.

I like the way you think. It really could play out precisely the way you surmise.

[subzero02]

I like the way you think. It really could play out precisely the way you surmise.

If Alex avoids throwing the ball away at the end of regulation and in overtime, the outcome might have been different. The turnover at the end of regulation really hurt. I agree that a few weeks of playing a more prominent role could help to remedy these unforced errors.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

We have the GOAT at the end of the bench. I'm sure he will come up with a pretty good plan B. :cool:

In keeping with your avatar I think that Nolan actually usually sits at the end of the bench. I'm assuming you mean that the GOAT sits next to the guy at the end of the bench :D

[ndkjr70]

For the record, someone earlier asked "have we ever had an injury vigil in a national championship winning year?" and I thought I remembered this -- took some searching this morning to find it.

https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?35312-Jahlil-Okafor-Ankle-Vigil

[phaedrus]

In keeping with your avatar I think that Nolan actually usually sits at the end of the bench. I'm assuming you mean that the GOAT sits next to the guy at the end of the bench :D

Nolan Smith is the Great People's Champion of All Time (GPCOAT).

[FerryFor50]

If Alex avoids throwing the ball away at the end of regulation and in overtime, the outcome might have been different. The turnover at the end of regulation really hurt. I agree that a few weeks of playing a more prominent role could help to remedy these unforced errors.

I believe a couple of those turnovers were due to fatigue from playing more minutes than he's used to, as well as just lack of pressure game scenarios.

He also hit a HUGE corner three off a loose ball as the shot clock expired. Alex also adds some length on the perimeter and has good anticipation for steals.

And it will be nice to get another reliable shooter on the perimeter - especially with Jack White slumping. While Tre is undoubtedly the engine that runs the machine, he is only a 28.6% shooter from 3.

Where Duke will suffer the most is with offensive sets. I think seeing Duke settle for 40+ threes is an example of why Tre Jones is such an important part of the offense.

[Jeffrey]

Why not try Cam Reddish at point guard?

I'm not 100% sure about it yet, but I think Cam could be the best option at point guard.

Cam is our best shooter. I prefer RJ driving and handling the ball with his exceptional ability to make acrobatic shots and respectable AST/TO ratio.

[dukelifer]

If Alex avoids throwing the ball away at the end of regulation and in overtime, the outcome might have been different. The turnover at the end of regulation really hurt. I agree that a few weeks of playing a more prominent role could help to remedy these unforced errors.

Of course that play was somewhat offset by AOC hitting that fall-away 3 in the corner earlier.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Cam is our best shooter. I prefer RJ driving and handling the ball with his exceptional ability to make acrobatic shots and respectable AST/TO ratio.

Cam can shoot off the dribble, so it makes sense for him to be handling more ballhandling responsibilities than R.J., who is vastly more efficient off the ball and serving as a secondary playmaker.

[Jeffrey]

Cam can shoot off the dribble, so it makes sense for him to be handling more ballhandling responsibilities than R.J.,....

Which of the two, do you think, has handled the ball better this season?

[rolm]

Some of you might find this superstitious, but I cringed when I saw the "Zayeon vigil" thread. I realize that it was meant as a joke, but my first thought when I saw that that thread was that I hope nobody on the team gets seriously injured that requires a vigil. I request the mods to delete/lock that thread and should only allow vigil threads after a confirmed injury that requires the player to miss multiple games.

I sincerely hope that Tre gets healthy soon.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Which of the two, do you think, has handled the ball better this season?

The only good solution to this is Tre coming back healthy. These are all tradeoffs here. If I am looking honestly at R.J., his game is much, much better for the team when he is off the ball. I try not to overreact to one game, but R.J., mostly playing the point, was 8-30 shooting last night. He was 10-19 playing mostly off the ball against FSU. Granted, he had 9 assists against just one turnover last night, but he can still facilitate as a secondary playmaker. Meanwhile, being more engaged in the offense might be just what Cam Reddish needs to build off of his performance against FSU. It's worth a shot.

[JayZee]

Cam can shoot off the dribble, so it makes sense for him to be handling more ballhandling responsibilities than R.J., who is vastly more efficient off the ball and serving as a secondary playmaker.

What about Zion at the point. With Cam/RJ/Jack on the wings, it will be harder to help off and thus open up more driving lanes.

[Jeffrey]

Granted, he had 9 assists against just one turnover last night...

I doubt K makes a change, against UVA, given those stats.

Here's hoping this is no longer a discussion two weeks from now!

[proelitedota]

Will we get any updates on the severity of the sprain? I understand they want to keep the timetable secret for strategery purposes, but it's not good for the fans!

[Steven43]

Will we get any updates on the severity of the sprain? I understand they want to keep the timetable secret for strategery purposes, but it's not good for the fans!

Yeah, well, the team was very tight-lipped about Kyrie Irving after he injured his toe in the Butler game on December 4 (geez, a full month and 10 days EARLIER in the season than Tre’s injury). Expect more of the same.

[DavidBenAkiva]

What about Zion at the point. With Cam/RJ/Jack on the wings, it will be harder to help off and thus open up more driving lanes.

I enjoy seeing Zion with the ball in his hands. He is really good and can create offense. But I don't think he is best suited at the point, facilitating for others. Given his unique efficiency, I think it's best to just let him do his thing. He puts so much pressure on the opposing defense already.

[gep]

The only good solution to this is Tre coming back healthy. These are all tradeoffs here. If I am looking honestly at R.J., his game is much, much better for the team when he is off the ball. I try not to overreact to one game, but R.J., mostly playing the point, was 8-30 shooting last night. He was 10-19 playing mostly off the ball against FSU. Granted, he had 9 assists against just one turnover last night, but he can still facilitate as a secondary playmaker. Meanwhile, being more engaged in the offense might be just what Cam Reddish needs to build off of his performance against FSU. It's worth a shot.

This is my thought also. He already has great focus on defense... maybe by being more involved in the offense, he will also be more focused on offense... ball handling, etc. which seems to be a concern.

[kAzE]

I doubt K makes a change, against UVA, given those stats.

Here's hoping this is no longer a discussion two weeks from now!

What about the 8/30 shooting?

Regardless of who's the "point guard", Cam is going to have to handle the rock more. I'm with DavidBenAkiva, I think RJ would be more efficient if he wasn't always the initiator of the offense. Imagine if he could have been the guy catching the ball in the high post against Syracuse at times, taking some of that pressure off of Zion.

I conceded in my first post about Cam as the PG that he hasn't really shown to this point that he's capable of running the offense, but my theory is that he just hasn't been given enough of a chance to do it.

Everything is harder when you're adjusting to a role that you've not been accustomed to. Cam has played way more games in his basketball career as the primary ball handler than as the 4th option. I say give him a chance.

[MulletMan]

My gosh, people. Some of this thread is worse that the original "Its Over" thread when Boozer broke his foot.

How about this... let's see what the coaching staff comes up with for Saturday. Let's pretend that we won't be gassed from a quick turnaround getting back from Tallahassee on Saturday, so we might not be totally winded at the end of the UVa game. Let's remember that we're still gonna roll out three of the best players in the country, that other teams would kill to have, and let's also remember that we're not surrounding them with rejects from the Washington Generals.

And finally, let's not treat Tre's injury, or lack of information about said injury, as a some sort of major problem for our day to day functioning (#firstworldproblems). Let's recognize that a guy on our team has suffered a pretty rough injury, and that he's probably just a little worried about what this does for the rest of his season and his teammates, who he is clearly dedicated to.

Damn, people. Perspective.

Oh, and for those that are there on Saturday, consider this a personal challenge to pick this team up through a level of noise and intensity that replaces some of the energy that Tre brings to the floor. Remember when Cameron was the most feared place to play in the country? Remember when we didn't let teams come into "Our House" and win? Yeah... here's your chance.

/endoldguysoapboxrant

[scottdude8]

What about the 8/30 shooting?

Regardless of who's the "point guard", Cam is going to have to handle the rock more. I'm with DavidBenAkiva, I think RJ would be more efficient if he wasn't always the initiator of the offense. Imagine if he could have been the guy catching the ball in the high post against Syracuse at times, taking some of that pressure off of Zion.

I conceded in my first post about Cam as the PG that he hasn't really shown to this point that he's capable of running the offense, but my theory is that he just hasn't been given enough of a chance to do it.

Everything is harder when you're adjusting to a role that you've not been accustomed to. Cam has played way more games in his basketball career as the primary ball handler than as the 4th option. I say give him a chance.

The bolded portion is a key point that got lost in all the noise yesterday. The game plan was obviously for Zion and RJ to "rotate" into the interior of the zone and work off of each other to get open in that area. Once Tre went down and RJ had to be the de-facto point guard, he no longer could play that role and had to try to break down the zone through his shooting, which while improved is not his strength. It's yet another of a million unlucky things that happened last night: it takes a specific gameplan to beat the 2-3, and losing Tre was the one thing that would completely destroy that gameplan and force us to adjust on the fly. RJ did an admirable job in a difficult situation in that regard.

[azzefkram]

What about the 8/30 shooting?

Regardless of who's the "point guard", Cam is going to have to handle the rock more. I'm with DavidBenAkiva, I think RJ would be more efficient if he wasn't the initiator of the offense.

I conceded in my first post about Cam as the PG that he hasn't really shown to this point that he's capable of running the offense, but my theory is that he just hasn't been given enough of a chance to do it.

Everything is harder when you're adjusting to a role that you've not been accustomed to. Cam has played way more games in his basketball career as the primary ball handler than as the 4th option. I say give him a chance.

ARate and TORate tend to favor RJ and by a reasonably good margin. Cam turns the ball over at about the same rate as Trevon did last year. I can remember a ton of people grousing about Trevon's TOs last year.

[WakeDevil]

I have a difficult time believing teenagers can get "gassed" from playing two basketball games in three days when older people have run 50 marathons in as many days.

[Steven43]

I enjoy seeing Zion with the ball in his hands. He is really good and can create offense. But I don't think he is best suited at the point, facilitating for others. Given his unique efficiency, I think it's best to just let him do his thing. He puts so much pressure on the opposing defense already.

Is the world ready for a 285-lb PG? Inconceivable. But awesome to fantasize about.

[Steven43]

I have a difficult time believing teenagers can get "gassed" from playing two basketball games in three days when older people have run 50 marathons in as many days.

50 marathons? In three days???

[devildeac]

50 marathons? In three days???

That was in Roman times. Barefoot. Uphill.

[Steven43]

Remember when Cameron was the most feared place to play in the country?
Which arena(s) has/have replaced Cameron as the most feared?

[Jeffrey]

What about the 8/30 shooting?

How do you know going 8/30 had anything to do with his PG duties? If position explains shooting, then I'm certain Jack played PG last night. The three games before FSU, Cam was our PG.

[budwom]

Which arena(s) has/have replaced Cameron as the most feared?

"we respect Cameron but we don't fear Cameron."

[Matches]

I have a difficult time believing teenagers can get "gassed" from playing two basketball games in three days when older people have run 50 marathons in as many days.

While I agree that some of the discussions of fatigue here seem to start from the premise that our players have the physical fitness of 80-year old asthmatics, it was pretty clear that guys were, in fact, gassed at the end of last night's game. I doubt it had much if anything to do with Saturday - the notion that it takes more than two days to recover from playing a basketball game strikes me as silly - but you could see them laboring at the end of the SYR game.

[weezie]

50 marathons? In three days???


Marathons ain't what they used to be...

[Nugget]

Which arena(s) has/have replaced Cameron as the most feared?

I think it's fairly clearly Allen Fieldhouse

[Steven43]

Marathons ain't what they used to be...

Evidently

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I have a difficult time believing teenagers can get "gassed" from playing two basketball games in three days when older people have run 50 marathons in as many days.

Totally totally totally different situations altogether. There is no analogy here for so so so many reasons.

Keep in mind, some of the best conditioned athletes in the world are professional hockey players......the average shift in hockey is under a minute. Keep in mind these players on Duke had two airline flights in the past three days....as well as an emotional game....keep in mind no one is trying to defend marathon runners and keeping them from running. I mean really, total failure as analogy.

[porkpa]

He is our Tom Brady. Would the Patriots be as good without him? Maybe, but clearly not as good.

[budwom]

While I agree that some of the discussions of fatigue here seem to start from the premise that our players have the physical fitness of 80-year old asthmatics, it was pretty clear that guys were, in fact, gassed at the end of last night's game. I doubt it had much if anything to do with Saturday - the notion that it takes more than two days to recover from playing a basketball game strikes me as silly - but you could see them laboring at the end of the SYR game.

I think that's the difference between a six man rotation and an eight man rotation. In fact down the stretch it seems like it was a five man non rotation, and that is definitely taxing.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

The schedule might help. Duke only has one game in 8 days following the injury (of course, that's UVa). Then Pitt, Ga Tech Notre Dame in the 7 days following that. Then ST Johns and BC.

SO, playing a little fill in the W/Ls ahead of time game....it's not until 2/9 that we play Virginia again. That's four full weeks. I think the stretch after UVa this week until the next UVa game is survivable without Tre.....and no reason at this point to assume he'll miss all of that (though possible).

Kind of reminds me in odd way of Grayson's "indefinite" suspension....which was criticized as one game only....but was also an 8 day suspension, which in many parts of the season would be 3 games. Timing is everything, and some elements of timing might help us out here.

[Matches]

I think that's the difference between a six man rotation and an eight man rotation. In fact down the stretch it seems like it was a five man non rotation, and that is definitely taxing.

It would have been really great if Javin had been able to stay on the court longer. Him being limited to 11 minutes more or less mandated that K ride the other 5 guys as hard as they could go. Vrank or Robinson would have gotten demolished in that game. Goldwire was ok for a minute or two here and there but he would have been a severe liability beyond that.

I mean, at some point injuries and attrition overwhelm even a deep team's ability to adapt. We have 8 guys who are legit rotation players, and that's pretty good, but take away 2.5 of them and we're painfully thin.

[uh_no]

I have a difficult time believing teenagers can get "gassed" from playing two basketball games in three days when older people have run 50 marathons in as many days.

that's a huge false equivalency. the people that are running 50 marathons in 50 days are not going anywhere near all out in any of the runs.

A more appropriate example are actual marathon racers. It takes a couple weeks for a professional marathon racer to recover from a single event (~2), and most don't run more than 2 a year to ensure they can peak for each.


So yes, it physically does take several days for the body to recover from huge efforts....these guys aren't going to be "gassed" in the same way as you or me (out of breath, huffing and puffing, in pain) because they're in such good shape....but the muscles will be just a bit less responsive, less strong....that's simply how the body works. It works that way whether you're 20 or 50. Yes it takes longer to recover when you're 50, but being 20 is not a magic draught to avoid the realities of muscle repair/recovery.

[elvis14]

It would have been really great if Javin had been able to stay on the court longer. Him being limited to 11 minutes more or less mandated that K ride the other 5 guys as hard as they could go. Vrank or Robinson would have gotten demolished in that game. Goldwire was ok for a minute or two here and there but he would have been a severe liability beyond that.

I mean, at some point injuries and attrition overwhelm even a deep team's ability to adapt. We have 8 guys who are legit rotation players, and that's pretty good, but take away 2.5 of them and we're painfully thin.

I realize that Robinson would have gotten demolished but we still should have gotten him a few more minutes to get Jack rest. Who knows maybe JRob would have hit a 3 at the very least, maybe with a little rest Jack might have hit one. By the end of the game, Jack got demolished just as bad as JRob. Note, I'm not ragging on Jack by saying that. He was gassed. He played hard and played a lot of minutes.

[dukelifer]

50 marathons? In three days???

Average old people Marathon time 4 hrs- 50 would take 200 hrs- three days is 72 hours. To run 50 marathons in 3 days- you have to run them in 1.44 hrs which is an average 3.3 minute mile- and get no breaks. I would argue that Steph Curry would miss 10 threes in a row in an open gym after that.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

that's a huge false equivalency. the people that are running 50 marathons in 50 days are not going anywhere near all out in any of the runs.

A more appropriate example are actual marathon racers. It takes a couple weeks for a professional marathon racer to recover from a single event (~2), and most don't run more than 2 a year to ensure they can peak for each.


So yes, it physically does take several days for the body to recover from huge efforts...these guys aren't going to be "gassed" in the same way as you or me (out of breath, huffing and puffing, in pain) because they're in such good shape...but the muscles will be just a bit less responsive, less strong...that's simply how the body works. It works that way whether you're 20 or 50. Yes it takes longer to recover when you're 50, but being 20 is not a magic draught to avoid the realities of muscle repair/recovery.

Not to mention the difference between fast twitch and slow twitch muscle function when tired.....

[Matches]

that's a huge false equivalency. the people that are running 50 marathons in 50 days are not going anywhere near all out in any of the runs.

A more appropriate example are actual marathon racers. It takes a couple weeks for a professional marathon racer to recover from a single event (~2), and most don't run more than 2 a year to ensure they can peak for each.



Not sure that's an entirely appropriate example either, though, inasmuch as running a marathon is much more physically taxing than playing a basketball game. Marathon runners do tend to take time off after a race, and you're right that they don't usually run more than 2 per year, but it's not as if they don't run the rest of the time. The training itself is more taxing than playing basketball, and they're out there doing it at least 4-5 days out of the week.

They're not getting banged around like basketball players do, of course, so you're right that it's not necessarily the same type of fatigue. But if it took longer than 2 days to recover from playing a basketball game, everyone in the NBA would be sucking wind.



I realize that Robinson would have gotten demolished but we still should have gotten him a few more minutes to get Jack rest. Who knows maybe JRob would have hit a 3 at the very least, maybe with a little rest Jack might have hit one. By the end of the game, Jack got demolished just as bad as JRob. Note, I'm not ragging on Jack by saying that. He was gassed. He played hard and played a lot of minutes.

I don't think 1-2 minutes off would have materially changed White's energy level. He played hard and he played a lot. 1-2 minutes off is about the equivalent of a TV timeout.

[uh_no]

Not sure that's an entirely appropriate example either, though, inasmuch as running a marathon is much more physically taxing than playing a basketball game. Marathon runners do tend to take time off after a race, and you're right that they don't usually run more than 2 per year, but it's not as if they don't run the rest of the time. The training itself is more taxing than playing basketball, and they're out there doing it at least 4-5 days out of the week.

They're not getting banged around like basketball players do, of course, so you're right that it's not necessarily the same type of fatigue. But if it took longer than 2 days to recover from playing a basketball game, everyone in the NBA would be sucking wind.



Of course it's not a perfect analogy, I don't claim it was. It would be more akin to a hard interval session, which you usually only do at most twice a week....for the same reason...to give your muscles a chance to repair themselves to be able to go all out in the next session.

NBA teams/players also complain about high game volumes...multiple back-to-backs in short time spans, etc. Those guys are also in even better-er shape than college players, and generally NBA teams go deeper so the load can be spread better. The data also show that NBA teams play worse on short rest.

The NFL is another example....teams playing on thursday generally play markedly worse....both from a lack of recovery (and lack of prep).

[53n206]

Makes me think of the wisdom of coaches going for the players who rank from 30 to 150 (just guessing). None likely to be one and done. All what likely to be four year players. Team depth should be amazing. Great defenses if properly chosen. Look at UVa, Gonzaga,"Nova etc.

[Rich]

Makes me think of the wisdom of coaches going for the players who rank from 30 to 150 (just guessing). None likely to be one and done. All what likely to be four year players. Team depth should be amazing. Great defenses if properly chosen. Look at UVa, Gonzaga,"Nova etc.

Dang! Here we go...again. This Board is an endless loop. Cue real facts and data.

[LasVegas]

Dang! Here we go...again. This Board is an endless loop. Cue real facts and data.

This forum makes me believe time is not linear!

[oakvillebluedevil]

This forum makes me believe time is not linear!

Pretty sure it's a flat circle

[House G]

Marathons ain't what they used to be...

No kidding. When I was that age, a marathon meant pulling an all-nighter to type a term paper. :rolleyes:
(Pass the liquid paper!)

[dukelifer]

Pretty sure it's a flat circle

With giant walls at the perimeter to keep the oceans in.

[hsheffield]

Probably not. Also, it seems unlikely that they would have a certain diagnosis as such in under 12 hours.

easy, quick diagnosis on plain films

[Indoor66]

Pretty sure it's a flat circle

And the ceiling is the roof.

[moonpie23]

He is our Tom Brady. Would the Patriots be as good without him? Maybe, but clearly not as good.

please don't equate our guy with the liar/cheater/deflater

[kako]

So... friggin'... bummed... If Jones is lost for the season, or even into March, my personal Duke natty odds just fell back to somewhere between the '16-17 and '17-18 teams' chances.

That being said, some thoughts on moving forward. Some have been mentioned, but I just need to think about something else than Jones' shoulder.

1. I expect several losses, both to upper and lower tier ACC teams. Without Jones as the driver, we've still got a Porsche. But he drove it like a McLaren. I think some gut wrenchers are due.
2. Who will step up? Barrett can run point, but I personally want someone else to drive the offense in order to save his strength and keep him focused. The problem is that I don't know who that would be. That being said, if K goes with Barrett at PG or point-forward, then I think Zion becomes option 1. Not the worst thing in the world...
3. I've always been pulling for Goldwire to turn into someone similar to the Tyler Thornton or the like by his senior year - a serviceable point guard who could even spot start. I'd love to see him surprise me, but I realistically think it's too early for Goldwire to perform solo starting PG at an ACC level. He will get a few more minutes, though, which is a good thing for the future. But like I said, please surprise me!
4. AOC's turnovers hurt (though not as much as White's horrendous shooting night - when was the last time that a Duke player went 0-10?). I'd like to see him far away from any ball-handling duties. But I would like to see him chuck a few more up.
5. If Jones is out for the season, I don't expect him back next year... especially if Duke falls back significantly. We will be seeing his injury over and over as the turning point for the once glorious season, further solidifying his importance. He will have proven his worth to a high caliber team, and some GM will take a flyer on him just on potential if he chooses to come out.
6. But if Jones isn't out, the best chances for a successful tourney means he comes back by late February. If that happens, and the rest of the team is injury free, I'm a total optimist again. Any later, and I wonder if things can click in time. But with it being a shoulder injury, hopefully he can live on the treadmill to at least keep his stamina up.

9 Friggin' F

[CameronBlue]

With giant walls at the perimeter to keep the oceans in.

Kyrie, that's very profound.

[proelitedota]

So I've researching AC sprains suffered by NBA players and so far here is what i found.

Kyrie. Grade 3 AC sprain, missed 3 weeks
Chris Paul. Grade 3 AC sprain, missed 4 weeks
Jason Richardson. Grade 1 AC sprain, no games missed
Luke Kennard. Grade 1? AC sprain, missed 5 weeks.

Good news is that I haven't found any player than missed more than 5 weeks.

Best case is that Tre misses only 2-3 weeks and we become better by trial by fire for our other plays.

[DavidBenAkiva]

So I've researching AC sprains suffered by NBA players and so far here is what i found.

Kyrie. Grade 3 AC sprain, missed 3 weeks
Chris Paul. Grade 3 AC sprain, missed 4 weeks
Jason Richardson. Grade 1 AC sprain, no games missed
Luke Kennard. Grade 1? AC sprain, missed 5 weeks.

Good news is that I haven't found any player than missed more than 4 weeks.

Best case is that Tre misses only 2-3 weeks and we become better by trial by fire for our other plays.

This is somewhat encouraging. Thanks for finding this.

If he does take 3 weeks to get back into game shape, that would put Tre back in action right around the time Duke heads to Charlottesville to play UVA for the rematch.

[Rich]

So I've researching AC sprains suffered by NBA players and so far here is what i found.

Kyrie. Grade 3 AC sprain, missed 3 weeks
Chris Paul. Grade 3 AC sprain, missed 4 weeks
Jason Richardson. Grade 1 AC sprain, no games missed
Luke Kennard. Grade 1? AC sprain, missed 5 weeks.

Good news is that I haven't found any player than missed more than 5 weeks.

Best case is that Tre misses only 2-3 weeks and we become better by trial by fire for our other plays.

Did any of those require surgery? I thought that was the potential issue that would significantly lengthen the recovery time and potentially keep him out the rest of the season.

[Devilwin]

Heard a specialist in these type of injuries on a sports talk show today say 1 to 3 weeks....

[Oriole Way]

Heard a specialist in these type of injuries on a sports talk show today say 1 to 3 weeks...

Was he specifically referencing Tre’s injury?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Was he specifically referencing Tre’s injury?

..I second this question......

[proelitedota]

Did any of those require surgery? I thought that was the potential issue that would significantly lengthen the recovery time and potentially keep him out the rest of the season.

Very rare. Only 1 such injury in professional football in the lat 23 years that required surgery.

[porkpa]

please don't equate our guy with the liar/cheater/deflater

All that and arguably the greatest quarterback of all time.

[proelitedota]

http://www.nba.com/article/2018/04/21/report-josh-richardson-sprains-ac-joint-left-shoulder

Looks eerily similar to Tre Jones injury in the reaction to the pain and the walk to the locker room. Josh was able to suit up the very next game.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

http://www.nba.com/article/2018/04/21/report-josh-richardson-sprains-ac-joint-left-shoulder

Looks eerily similar to Tre Jones injury in the reaction to the pain and the walk to the locker room. Josh was able to suit up the very next game.

GREAT FIND!!!

That does look similar...I didn't think Josh was holding his left wrist on the walk to the locker room...but you couldn't really tell. Also notice Justice Winslow in the play...helping settle Embid after they collided...

[mattman91]

http://www.nba.com/article/2018/04/21/report-josh-richardson-sprains-ac-joint-left-shoulder

Looks eerily similar to Tre Jones injury in the reaction to the pain and the walk to the locker room. Josh was able to suit up the very next game.


GREAT FIND!!!

That does look similar...I didn't think Josh was holding his left wrist on the walk to the locker room...but you couldn't really tell. Also notice Justice Winslow in the play...helping settle Embid after they collided...

Stop getting my hopes up!

[lotusland]

What about Zion at the point. With Cam/RJ/Jack on the wings, it will be harder to help off and thus open up more driving lanes.

That would really streamline the offense. Zion can rebound the ball, dribble down court, throw himself a lob and slam it. On the occasional miss he’ll have the rebound and stick back covered too. At that point he just needs to pick up the opposing PG in the back court and start the process over again.

[gep]

Tre should be able to do a lot of things to keep his stamina up. My concern is that it is his right shoulder that got injured... will that affect his effectiveness on defense? I would think it at least affects his passing ability:confused:

[WVDUKEFAN]

All that and arguably the greatest quarterback of all time.

He’s a cheater. That’s how he will be remembered. Just like Calamari and the UNCheats.

[Dukehky]

I'm so sad, still.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

He’s a cheater. That’s how he will be remembered. Just like Calamari and the UNCheats.

Wrong.....and not a Pats fan here either. Now back to Tre Jones.....and your regularly scheduled thread...

[proelitedota]

Looking at the video of him walking to the locker room, there is no evidence, to me, of a bump that would indicated a grade II or III AC joint separation. That said, I have no idea if the bump is something takes time to form or is present in all grades of separation.

Tre Jones could very well suit up for the game Saturday. At the worst I think he is out 5 weeks.

[moonpie23]

Wrong....and not a Pats fan here either. Now back to Tre Jones....and your regularly scheduled thread...

"wrong" he's not a cheater? or "wrong" that's how he's remembered? cause i'm pretty sure that it's "right" on both....

[Hancock 4 Duke]

Just popping in to say on behalf of all of the lurkers...I very much appreciate all of you that take the time to do hours of research for an injury of which we only saw happen live with no other information given. Not all heroes wear capes.

[NSDukeFan]

I am in the optimist camp, but getting more experience for players who weren’t playing as much, while Tre is gone, does not make the team even better when Tre comes back. The team loses all the reps of Tre playing and playing with his teammates. Otherwise, coaches would voluntarily sit their stars to get better.

[arnie]

"wrong" he's not a cheater? or "wrong" that's how he's remembered? cause i'm pretty sure that it's "right" on both...

Brady will be remembered as the greatest QB in NFL history; Coach K will be remembered as the greatest coach in college B-ball history and the Cheats remembered as the greatest academic frauds in college sports history.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I am in the optimist camp, but getting more experience for players who weren’t playing as much, while Tre is gone, does not make the team even better when Tre comes back. The team loses all the reps of Tre playing and playing with his teammates. Otherwise, coaches would voluntarily sit their stars to get better.

You seem to miss several points.
A: some teams benefit, and some do not, from a star being sidelined for a period of time.
B: Lot of coaches DO voluntarily sit the stars to get PT from other players. It's called substitution.
C: it all depends on the specifics of the personnel....who is lost, and who is getting that person's playing time, the positions of the players, etc.
D: sometimes stars are discovered this way.

[uh_no]

Looking at the video of him walking to the locker room, there is no evidence, to me, of a bump that would indicated a grade II or III AC joint separation. That said, I have no idea if the bump is something takes time to form or is present in all grades of separation.

Tre Jones could very well suit up for the game Saturday. At the worst I think he is out 5 weeks.

this is the third person I've heard this analysis from. given that he was originally supposed to warm up after half time, i see all known evidence leaning towards less time out.....

[NSDukeFan]

You seem to miss several points.
A: some teams benefit, and some do not, from a star being sidelined for a period of time.
B: Lot of coaches DO voluntarily sit the stars to get PT from other players. It's called substitution.
C: it all depends on the specifics of the personnel...who is lost, and who is getting that person's playing time, the positions of the players, etc.
D: sometimes stars are discovered this way.

There could also be the possibility that you are missing some points.
A. If teams benefited from a star being sidelined for a period of time, why don’t the smart coaches bench star players so the team could get better?
B. Some coaches sit players so that they are well rested. Perhaps a bench player fully rested is better than a starter who has not had a rest. Sometimes the best players get in foul trouble so other players might play. It’s called maximizing your rotation.
C. Maybe, but I am not sure how someone else getting Tre’s playing time is going to get Tre, R.J., Zion and Cam better at playing together in their one season of playing together , no matter how much Alex or Jack or Javin or Jordan get more confidence playing more minutes.
D. I loved seeing Alex get minutes and play well and always want to see the bench players play more, but unless you believe that Tre is not going to be one of the players playing the most minutes when he returns, that nucleus of Tre, Cam, Zion, R.J, is, in my opinion, not going to get better by not playing with Tre while he is out. You might disagree.

I still believe Duke is a title contender, especially if Tre is back soon. I just don’t believe the team will be better in the long run because he is out.

[CoachJ10]

Yeah, that's not how it works (and Tamiflu isn't a great drug anyways, but that's another story). Disclosure: I have an MD behind my name.

Your bedside manner is impeccable, Dr.

Full disclosure, my wife is a Dr. and we have 2 kids < 3 yrs old...believe you me, we talk about the flu more than we talk about Duke basketball (much to my chagrine).

[richardjackson199]

this is the third person I've heard this analysis from. given that he was originally supposed to warm up after half time, i see all known evidence leaning towards less time out...

I hope you're right. But all known evidence isn't much known evidence. There is also the known evidence of Coach K saying he will be "out for a while." Unlike Zion who was originally supposedly going to play after halftime, Tre did not sit on the bench the whole 2nd half. He was reportedly off somewhere else in a tremendous amount of pain presumably getting treatment. So is out indefinitely almost the whole season indefinitely like Kyrie, or a few months indefinitely like Amile, or a few games indefinitely like Bagley, or 1 game indefinitely like Grayson's suspension? We definitely don't know how indefinite it is. Just a while. I'm trying to learn not to put much credence in the time-frame information released by K. Maybe it's military philosophy of give your preparing opponent as little useful information as possible.

Prayers to Tre for a speedy and full recovery. We know Duke will give him whatever time he needs to recover. And we know that this team needs him healthy to achieve our potential. He is simply not replaceable.

Yesterday was brutal. We went from the #1 team in the country en route to a rout to a team who likely will not be able to earn a #1 seed if Tre misses significant time (my opinion, kudos to the optimists who disagree). (Way too early predictions for #1 seeds if Tre misses significant time -- 1. Big 10 - Michigan, 1. ACC - UVA 1. Gonzaga, and 1. Big 12 (Kansas) OR SEC (Tennessee). Duke would be more likely to be a 2 seed.) And a #1 Seed helps the odds of a national championship run significantly.

But brutal as it was, yesterday could have been much worse. There is reasonable hope that Tre returns in a few weeks or maybe even sooner. If he does and if we can stay healthy (and lock all these vigils permanently) the sky is the limit (sure beats the roof). Any team needs a lot of things to go right to make a national championship run. The luck we've gotten this week has been the wrong kind, but not yet the worst kind.

Can't count Duke out yet. Hopefully Tre returns soon and Duke quickly gets back on track for our full potential: a magical season with a magical ending.

UVA will come into Cameron pretty confident given that they are thrashing a good Va Tech team like they're thrashing everyone else. But Cameron can be a tough place to win. Duke can score in an electric Cameron in ways other teams can't seem to do on UVA's vaunted pack-line. So we'll see. Get well soon Tre and let's go Duke!

[Steven43]

tgiven that he was originally supposed to warm up after half time...

Wait..,.what? Please explain.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Bad week to be a T. Jones.
Tyus was taken off the court with an injury tonight. (Ankle I think)

[Dukehk]

this is the third person I've heard this analysis from. given that he was originally supposed to warm up after half time, i see all known evidence leaning towards less time out....

Wow if thats true then it would be great news. I didn't realise they actually held him back from warming up at half time..

Lets pray its not something serious. I was fearing the worse when K said he was out indefinitely. Too many flashbacks to the Kyrie Irving season.

[gofurman]

Any kids on campus actually post here and talk to Tre?

[Kfanarmy]

There could also be the possibility that you are missing some points.
A. If teams benefited from a star being sidelined for a period of time, why don’t the smart coaches bench star players so the team could get better?
B. Some coaches sit players so that they are well rested. Perhaps a bench player fully rested is better than a starter who has not had a rest. Sometimes the best players get in foul trouble so other players might play. It’s called maximizing your rotation.
C. Maybe, but I am not sure how someone else getting Tre’s playing time is going to get Tre, R.J., Zion and Cam better at playing together in their one season of playing together , no matter how much Alex or Jack or Javin or Jordan get more confidence playing more minutes.
D. I loved seeing Alex get minutes and play well and always want to see the bench players play more, but unless you believe that Tre is not going to be one of the players playing the most minutes when he returns, that nucleus of Tre, Cam, Zion, R.J, is, in my opinion, not going to get better by not playing with Tre while he is out. You might disagree.

I still believe Duke is a title contender, especially if Tre is back soon. I just don’t believe the team will be better in the long run because he is out.
It is possible, that the version that is on the court when Tre is subbed out becomes much better than it might have been...even to the point of overshadowing the potential gains that will be lost toward making the starting line up it's best. The point is, it isn't all necessarily negative, depending on when he returns to practice and game time.

[SoCalDukeFan]

I am in the optimist camp, but getting more experience for players who weren’t playing as much, while Tre is gone, does not make the team even better when Tre comes back. The team loses all the reps of Tre playing and playing with his teammates. Otherwise, coaches would voluntarily sit their stars to get better.

You are absolutely correct. It always amazes me that people think otherwise. This is the money line : "Otherwise, coaches would voluntarily sit their stars to get better."

SoCal

[Furniture]

Saw this on Twitter. Not sure how legit it is...
https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesIn63719646/status/1085279953791447040

Heard that diagnostics of Tre Jones' should injury is not as bad as initially feared. He is a game time decision for Saturday against @UVAMensHoops
(https://mobile.twitter.com/UVAMensHoops).Duke has exceptional physicians and they are able to get guys back faster than many schools.

[uh_no]

Saw this on Twitter. Not sure how legit it is...
https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesIn63719646/status/1085279953791447040

Heard that diagnostics of Tre Jones' should injury is not as bad as initially feared. He is a game time decision for Saturday against @UVAMensHoops
(https://mobile.twitter.com/UVAMensHoops).Duke has exceptional physicians and they are able to get guys back faster than many schools.

ooof...this guy could just be getting clicks...his replies to some of the questions to his legitimacy are kinda sketchy.

[Troublemaker]

Any kids on campus actually post here and talk to Tre?

... and not bug him to release his info on public internet message boards? Let the Duke program handle these medical info releases.

[Natty_B]

I’ve been reading DBR since 2000 and usually when a major issue would arise, like this injury, we would get a great Al Featherston post. Damn I miss Al.

[MCFinARL]

I hope you're right. But all known evidence isn't much known evidence. There is also the known evidence of Coach K saying he will be "out for a while." Unlike Zion who was originally supposedly going to play after halftime, Tre did not sit on the bench the whole 2nd half. He was reportedly off somewhere else in a tremendous amount of pain presumably getting treatment. So is out indefinitely almost the whole season indefinitely like Kyrie, or a few months indefinitely like Amile, or a few games indefinitely like Bagley, or 1 game indefinitely like Grayson's suspension? We definitely don't know how indefinite it is. Just a while. I'm trying to learn not to put much credence in the time-frame information released by K. Maybe it's military philosophy of give your preparing opponent as little useful information as possible.


That could be true. But it is also possible that the duration of Tre's absence is indefinite--i.e., they simply don't know. Based on what I have read about AC separations in this thread and elsewhere, athletes can resume competition when they regain their full range of motion and are no longer experiencing significant pain--which is surely an individual thing. If the team announced a projected return in, say, 4 weeks but he reached that point either before or after that date, the announcement would be inaccurate.

The good news is Tre is a young, fit guy with access to excellent medical care. So he will have every opportunity to get to that point as quickly as possible.

[BeachBlueDevil]

Heard that diagnostics of Tre Jones' should injury is not as bad as initially feared. He is a game time decision for Saturday against [URL="https://mobile.twitter.com/UVAMensHoops"]@UVAMensHoops


Looks like a click grab.... "Diagnostics"(?) and everything else he tweets isn't related to basketball or Duke. So it looks like someone searching for clicks and he's based in Norfolk, VA. A good 3 hours away from Durham, so how in touch with the program could he be to make a claim like that?

[El_Diablo]

Looks like a click grab... "Diagnostics"(?) and everything else he tweets isn't related to basketball or Duke. So it looks like someone searching for clicks and he's based in Norfolk, VA. A good 3 hours away from Durham, so how in touch with the program could he be to make a claim like that?

Zero credibility. That user’s twitter feed otherwise reads like a Russian pot-stirrer. I would completely disregard this information.

[budwom]

I expected to find a bunch of posts about the time someone's uncle had a separated shoulder, and I'm not that disappointed. Let's go the tarot cards!
For those of us football fans used to Cut's Cone of Silence, we're well equipped to wait this out until genuine information emerges (I'm not holding my breath).

[left_hook_lacey]

I expected to find a bunch of posts about the time someone's uncle had a separated shoulder, and I'm not that disappointed. Let's go the tarot cards!
For those of us football fans used to Cut's Cone of Silence, we're well equipped to wait this out until genuine information emerges (I'm not holding my breath).

The cone of silence isn't unique to Cut. I've learned to be patient to no end over the years when it comes to Duke MBB injuries. Rarely do we ever find out how minor/severe an injury is or a reliable timeline for return.

[jipops]

Saw this on Twitter. Not sure how legit it is...
https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesIn63719646/status/1085279953791447040

Heard that diagnostics of Tre Jones' should injury is not as bad as initially feared. He is a game time decision for Saturday against @UVAMensHoops
(https://mobile.twitter.com/UVAMensHoops).Duke has exceptional physicians and they are able to get guys back faster than many schools.

Twitter bio alone makes this all dubious.

[jipops]

I’ve been reading DBR since 2000 and usually when a major issue would arise, like this injury, we would get a great Al Featherston post. Damn I miss Al.

Yes, he was the greatest source of realism and perspective when it comes to Duke basketball. He was always a treasure.

[budwom]

The cone of silence isn't unique to Cut. I've learned to be patient to no end over the years when it comes to Duke MBB injuries. Rarely do we ever find out how minor/severe an injury is or a reliable timeline for return.

yeah, I'd say that in sports in general over the past few years, nearly all sports teams are releasing essentially zero information. This somewhat relates to another thread regarding sideline reporters. Years ago one of them would get a quote from a coach to the effect "Jimmy Bob just got his bell rung, he'll be back shortly." Now they get nothing (begging the question why are they even trying to report the unreportable?)...
Heck, now a guy gets injured on the football field and they rush him into The Tent where they either work on the injured body part, or maybe they play some gin rummy and have a beer or two...we'll never know.

Like I said earlier, I expect zero updates.

If I may draw a comparison between the secrecy of today vs The Days of Olde:

One of the most famous plays in Duke football history came in 1969 when Duke ran the trick shoestring play vs unc, scoring a crucial touchdown in a four point win. (Duke QB Leo Hart feigned some shoe tying, unc's defense was unconcerned
since Hart was not ready for a snap.and then Duke snapped the ball to Wes Chesson who galloped 50+ yards to the TD...refs were told ahead of time of the ploy so they wouldn't be more confused than they usually are.)
Anyway...getting back to the discussion of secrecy...earlier that week, a friend of mine had a habit of running around the track at WW for his daily exercise, and he told me he had observed the Duke team doing some weird stuff in practice, with Hart kneeling on the ground and everyone else on the team running down the field...as he continued running, he saw them do this repeatedly...so on game day, we were expecting this, and were not disappointed.

Fast forward to today...could you imagine zipping into a Duke football practice, trotting around the field at your leisure? Pretty sure one of the snipers in the light towers would get you, but maybe it's worth a try.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Bad week to be a T. Jones.
Tyus was taken off the court with an injury tonight. (Ankle I think)

Bless their poor mother's heart.
Love, Ima

[Pghdukie]

At least Duke reported "Shoulder Injury" instead of the hockey verbiage "Upper Body Injury" ! Time heals. We just have to be patient.

[sagegrouse]

yeah, I'd say that in sports in general over the past few years, nearly all sports teams are releasing essentially zero information. This somewhat relates to another thread regarding sideline reporters. Years ago one of them would get a quote from a coach to the effect "Jimmy Bob just got his bell rung, he'll be back shortly." Now they get nothing (begging the question why are they even trying to report the unreportable?)...
Heck, now a guy gets injured on the football field and they rush him into The Tent where they either work on the injured body part, or maybe they play some gin rummy and have a beer or two...we'll never know.

Like I said earlier, I expect zero updates.
.

The tent and the screens on the basketball court appear to be more about privacy and dignity than secrecy -- which I support -- but there's probably some of the latter.

What has changed in football is that there are fewer QB "eye injuries" now that quarterbacks wear rib protectors. In the old days, when a QB got a painful crack to the rib cage, the QB would feign an eye injury to give himself time to recover.

[kAzE]

Bad week to be a T. Jones.
Tyus was taken off the court with an injury tonight. (Ankle I think)

And not just a normal ankle injury . . . it's been diagnosed as the dreaded high ankle sprain, meaning Tyus may be out for 4-6 weeks. Very unusual to see this injury in basketball.

Get well soon, Jones bros.

[Steven43]

Years ago one of them would get a quote from a coach to the effect "Jimmy Bob just got his bell rung, he'll be back shortly."
Haha, “Jimmy Bob”. I could just hear that name coming from the mouth of Bobby Bowden in 1976. I miss that guy.