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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 80, Florida St. 78 Post-Game Thread



JBDuke
01-12-2019, 04:25 PM
Welcome to Duke, Cam Reddish. Put your post-game thoughts here.

Dukehk
01-12-2019, 04:26 PM
Lets get this straight.

We just beat the no. 13 team in the country (who was previously top 10) that are 44-2 at home, without our best player Zion Williamson for a whole half.

That was incredible. Absolutely incredible.

If you didn't believe in this team, you should now. They are special. No doubt about it.

The scary thing is there is so much room for improvement. We gave away so many points on poorly defended pick and rolls. We also missed some crucial free throws, which have been slowly improving.

This team is so fun to watch.

rsvman
01-12-2019, 04:26 PM
Fantastic. Exhilarating.

Truth&Justise
01-12-2019, 04:26 PM
What a finish! I wouldn't call it a great game aesthetically, too much fouling, too choppy. But what an ending!!

We just beat FSU on the road with one (very muscled) hand tied behind our back.

Indoor66
01-12-2019, 04:26 PM
The SHOT of '19.

golfinesquire
01-12-2019, 04:26 PM
Just to start. Carolina gets thumped at home and Duke wins on the road. Great day!

DoWorkDukie
01-12-2019, 04:27 PM
What a playcall and shot by Cam! I love it. He's been in a funk, so I'm really happy he balled out today and then won the game.

ratamero
01-12-2019, 04:28 PM
This is exactly the kind of game I've seen freshmen-led Duke teams of the last few years lose again and again. RJ is special, he'll have a brilliant career in the NBA. Cam stepped up with Zion out. This team will be tough to beat in March.

WHOneedsSOX
01-12-2019, 04:29 PM
Barrett and Reddish played fantastic games today. Helped that they made their 3s, obviously, but that was huge without Zion.

dukelion
01-12-2019, 04:29 PM
Yeeeaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!

Man this will be a win I'll cherish for a while.

TV Teddy was a complete joke this game.....and not just the end of the game.

Man this feels good.

GGLC
01-12-2019, 04:29 PM
So happy for Cam. That was awesome.

Furniture
01-12-2019, 04:29 PM
The sheer petulance and audacity of K to draw up that last play........GOAT.

Bluedevil114
01-12-2019, 04:30 PM
Wow. Just wow. This team grew up playing without Zion. Tre struggled today, no Zion and Jack was a little off. Reddish was incredible and hopefully he builds on this game. He was star 1a but the man that carried us was RJ. That is a big win with them hacking us and no fouls called and us not being able to block out or stop the lob. Hats off to the coaching staff. Bolden played good again. Very happy. Go Duke.

fisheyes
01-12-2019, 04:30 PM
Absolutely awesome win!
Maybe the best missed free throw of the year by Barrett as it turned the game in our favor. Go figure.
Reddish! Wow!!!

WVDUKEFAN
01-12-2019, 04:30 PM
That had to be a confidence booster for Cam. He had a great game.

knicknut
01-12-2019, 04:30 PM
Fantastic result for a tough game. A win in a half without Zion, against a tough opponent that was playing well, with a few tough calls along the way, and a finish that has to get Cam out of his mental slump.

Also, maybe I'm in my own head, but TV Teddy almost makes these games unwatchable. It feels like the average age of a ref in our games is 55. Is it really such a good ol' boys' club that guys with 30 years of bad habits, histrionics, egotism, and objectively poor performance continue to be deemed worthy of officiating marquee games?

Truth&Justise
01-12-2019, 04:31 PM
What a playcall and shot by Cam! I love it. He's been in a funk, so I'm really happy he balled out today and then won the game.

Just great all around. K had faith in Cam, and so did his teammates. Beautiful pass from Tre--and his little pep talk to Bolden may have drawn more attention away from the perimeter. I swear, Tre is a genius.

And then the guts from Cam to hit that shot. Cam deserves a lot of credit for hitting it, but don't miss how well everyone else played their parts too.

dalmatians98
01-12-2019, 04:31 PM
Duke wins on the road with Cam sinking the winning three with 2 seconds left... AND Carolina gets mauled at home. It's been a very good day!

weezie
01-12-2019, 04:31 PM
Sure, go ahead and ignore the hot hand of Cam. Nice and breezy out there on the edge. Plenty of elbow room.

porkpa
01-12-2019, 04:31 PM
I'm just so, so happy for Cam Reddish. No more funk. At least for the present.

WHOneedsSOX
01-12-2019, 04:31 PM
Watching the play for the 10th time, that was definitely drawn up for Cam. Bolden and White crashed down hard to pin down the defenders for Cam. Great play call.

Saratoga2
01-12-2019, 04:32 PM
Wow. Just wow. This team grew up playing without Zion. Tre struggled today, no Zion and Jack was a little off. Reddish was incredible and hopefully he builds on this game. He was star 1a but the man that carried us was RJ. That is a big win with them hacking us and no fouls called and us not being able to block out or stop the lob. Hats off to the coaching staff. Bolden played good again. Very happy. Go Duke.

Wow! RJ and Reddish carried the load today. Great win.

DukieInBrasil
01-12-2019, 04:32 PM
I'll take the credit for this win folks! Today i climbed a volcano (Volcan Sta Maria in Guatemala, 3772m). The only play of the game that took place after firing up the ol' internet was Cam's 3 for the win.
Looks like Duke got hot from 3 for the first time in a while, and we got essentially nothing from our big men.
Always tough to win at FSU, so this one is pure gold!

scottdude8
01-12-2019, 04:32 PM
That win required a special team. Not good, not great, but special. Just think of what we were up against:

A second half without arguably the best player in the country
A hostile road environment where it felt llike were playing 5 on 7 (an extra player for the crowd, and another for the refs *cough cough* TV Ted *cough cough*)
A team that arguably matches up as well against us as any in the country athletically, but with experience
The worst game of the year, arguably, from both our captains and primary role players
As Dickie V had to mention over and over and over, bad history against FSU when it comes to upsets
A hell of a lot of bounces (FTs, 50-50 calls, FSU making tough shots) not going our way

And still, we pulled it off. I can't think of a Duke team in the past 5 years that could've done what this team just did in those circumstances.

This game could/should get Cam's confidence back in droves. It came pretty darn close to redeeming R.J.'s struggles down the stretch against Gonzaga (the missed FT was all that stood in the way of full redemption). It showed that Marques Bolden can stand up to punishment from some of the best bigs in the country. And, finally, it showed we can beat a Top-15 team on the road without the presumptive Wooden Award leader.

Special.

Dukehky
01-12-2019, 04:33 PM
No Zion for a half; Tre's worst game by far; Cofer the Duke killer in full effect; still win. Quite a day.

MartyClark
01-12-2019, 04:33 PM
Duke wins on the road with Cam sinking the winning three with 2 seconds left... AND Carolina gets mauled at home. It's been a very good day!

You are the master of understatement. It's a great day.

kAzE
01-12-2019, 04:33 PM
I just want to share a text conversation I was having with my friend during this game (sorry if it's a bit blurry):

8940

I inadvertently predicted Cam would hit the game winner.

My friend told me to go buy a lottery ticket after the game ended :D

MaxAMillion
01-12-2019, 04:34 PM
Terrific win...I was never worried about Reddish because it was obvious he was in a slump. I am worried about FT shooting. That is the thing that will most likely stop this team. You have to play a close game in the tournament at some point and you can't give away points at the line.

kaufmjo
01-12-2019, 04:35 PM
Anyone know why Zion didn’t go back in despite looking ok?

Truth&Justise
01-12-2019, 04:35 PM
I just want to share a text conversation I was having with my friend during this game (sorry if it's a bit blurry):

8940

I inadvertently predicted Cam would hit the game winner.

He told me to go buy a lottery ticket after the game ended :D

Nice call, Coach K(AzE)

hudlow
01-12-2019, 04:36 PM
The dog is still trembling and won't look at me.

devildeac
01-12-2019, 04:37 PM
Fantastic result for a tough game. A win in a half without Zion, against a tough opponent that was playing well, with a few tough calls along the way, and a finish that has to get Cam out of his mental slump.

Also, maybe I'm in my own head, but TV Teddy almost makes these games unwatchable. It feels like the average age of a ref in our games is 55. Is it really such a good ol' boys' club that guys with 30 years of bad habits, histrionics, egotism, and objectively poor performance continue to be deemed worthy of officiating marquee games?

B1G didn't want him and the acc did?

Think about that.

CameronDuke
01-12-2019, 04:38 PM
No Zion, no problem!

(Although he looked like he may have gotten a concussion, get well soon PLEASE!)

Cam. Reddish. Such a smooth jumper. Nothing but net for the win! Dagger!

I will remember this game forever, most importantly, how jovial the 71 year old Coach K looked after drawing up the perfect baseline out of bounds play to beat the gritty Leonard Hamilton who is one heck of a coach. When Coach K jumped off the bench and gave Nolan Smith and Jon Scheyer high fives, that was beautiful! Coach K is the GOAT!

House G
01-12-2019, 04:40 PM
Watching the play for the 10th time, that was definitely drawn up for Cam. Bolden and White crashed down hard to pin down the defenders for Cam. Great play call.

I agree. Barrett was a decoy. And I believe Tre walking out to talk to Bolden before the inbounds was part of the deception—a “false tell”, if you will.

Utley
01-12-2019, 04:40 PM
What a character building win - for a group with a heck of a lot of character to begin with. Amazing to overcome no Zion - and the officiating - those were two killer three point shot fouls on us.

How incredible that Reddish finds his mojo under those circumstances - just hard to believe. Can’t think of a precedent. What an amazing thing confidence is - must have gotten just enough from the Clemson win.

I’m an Eagles fan - that was a little bit of a double doink by FSU with the ball bouncing off their two guys on RJ’s missed shot :)

WakeDevil
01-12-2019, 04:40 PM
Let's not forget two jumping into the three-point shooters.

If your glass is half full, pour the contents into a smaller glass and quit griping.

weezie
01-12-2019, 04:40 PM
I'll take the credit for this win folks! Today i climbed a volcano...

Big deal!

I changed seats on the couch with my husband at the half.

DukeFanSince1990
01-12-2019, 04:40 PM
bUt ThEy DoNt PlAy AnY rOaD gAmEs

devildeac
01-12-2019, 04:41 PM
No Zion for a half; Tre's worst game by far; Cofer the Duke killer in full effect; still win. Quite a day.

Tre didn't shoot well but his game wasn't bad with 8 points, 5 boards, 6A:1TO, and 3 steals. I'll take that.

kAzE
01-12-2019, 04:42 PM
I really thought we were going to lose with Zion out of the game, but I could not be happier about the way Cam stepped up in the 2nd half. There was no way RJ could win this game on his own, and even despite the turnover and the foul on the 3 point shooter (which should have been a no call), Cam didn't let it affect him mentally and took and made the biggest shot of his college career.

So happy right now :o

devildeac
01-12-2019, 04:42 PM
I just want to share a text conversation I was having with my friend during this game (sorry if it's a bit blurry):

8940

I inadvertently predicted Cam would hit the game winner.

My friend told me to go buy a lottery ticket after the game ended :D

Blurry? Did you get poked in the eye or something? :mad:

mattyoung18
01-12-2019, 04:43 PM
The cheats lose,ESPN cuts there game off early and now THE SHOT.Is this Christmas in January or what?

simplyluvin
01-12-2019, 04:43 PM
There were a lot of points early in the 2nd half where they could have stretched the lead and demoralized us, but we hung tough and RJ was amazing with dribble drive. Hoping this game will bring back the Cam that we saw earlier in the season. I don’t expect 46% 3-pt shooting all season, but I like that we find different ways to win. Just special.

Not overlooking Cuse, but hoping Zion can come back 100% for UVA.

WHOneedsSOX
01-12-2019, 04:44 PM
Tre didn't shoot well but his game wasn't bad with 8 points, 5 boards, 6A:1TO, and 3 steals. I'll take that.

Seems like he had a couple more turnovers than that. Counted his failed lobs as shots I guess.

CameronDuke
01-12-2019, 04:44 PM
Duke can't shoot threes or win on the road.

11-24 from 3 including a game winning nothing but net 3 and a win at #13 FSU feels great right now. Wow!

JetpackJesus
01-12-2019, 04:45 PM
Anyone know how much real time elapsed after RJ missed his second FT? Basically, how long did the final 2.8 seconds actually take?

DFife90
01-12-2019, 04:48 PM
Go back and look at the huddle before the last play. Coach K is not talking to Cam at all . . . until right at the end. He looks at Cam and says, “You’ll make it.” That’s Coach K! That’s Duke basketball!

Truth&Justise
01-12-2019, 04:48 PM
Anyone know how much real time elapsed after RJ missed his second FT? Basically, how long did the final 2.8 seconds actually take?

About a month and a half.

Bob Green
01-12-2019, 04:49 PM
Great road win by the team in a way too physical game. To borrow a phrase from -jk, I like flowy hoops. There was no flow in that slug fest.

buddy
01-12-2019, 04:50 PM
I'll take the credit for this win folks! Today i climbed a volcano (Volcan Sta Maria in Guatemala, 3772m). The only play of the game that took place after firing up the ol' internet was Cam's 3 for the win.
Looks like Duke got hot from 3 for the first time in a while, and we got essentially nothing from our big men.
Always tough to win at FSU, so this one is pure gold!

My heart needs you to fire up the internet sooner

devildeac
01-12-2019, 04:50 PM
Anyone know how much real time elapsed after RJ missed his second FT? Basically, how long did the final 2.8 seconds actually take?

In real time or in tv teddy time?

:mad:

killerleft
01-12-2019, 04:53 PM
Watching the play for the 10th time, that was definitely drawn up for Cam. Bolden and White crashed down hard to pin down the defenders for Cam. Great play call.

Yep. Tre only had eyes for Cam. RJ was the Seminole magnet.

Duke 81 LA
01-12-2019, 04:53 PM
Anyone know how much real time elapsed after RJ missed his second FT? Basically, how long did the final 2.8 seconds actually take?

Ten minutes from the time RJ got fouled until the Reddish 3 in real time

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-12-2019, 04:56 PM
In real time or in tv teddy time?

:mad:

I swear he was eyeing that replay in the last timeout seeing if he could switch the call back. Sheesh.

camion
01-12-2019, 04:57 PM
What a playcall and shot by Cam! I love it. He's been in a funk, so I'm really happy he balled out today and then won the game.

Brilliant play call. I thought Cam might be the number two option on the play, but it really looked like he was number one and RJ was a decoy.

This really bodes well for the rest of the season. Cam got out of his own way and just played ball. I really happy for the him.

devildeac
01-12-2019, 04:59 PM
I swear he was eyeing that replay in the last timeout seeing if he could switch the call back. Sheesh.

Wouldn't surprise me. Yet, their last 3 FT shoulda been 2 FT as the foot sure looked to be on the line. But no replay/review there. :mad:

Water under the dam(n) now. Or, is that water over the bridge? :rolleyes:

Billy Dat
01-12-2019, 05:03 PM
Cam Bam Thank You Ma'am!

RJ was the reason we won as he put us on his back, but this was the Cam we have been hoping for.

Agree with scottdude that we weren't getting any bounces or luck, until the RJ missed FT and the bad bounce for FSU...so I guess we got the one bounce we needed.

K just reminding everyone that he's not all inspiration, he can X and O a little, too.

AMAZING road win. I hope Zion is OK.

DangerDevil
01-12-2019, 05:03 PM
I swear he was eyeing that replay in the last timeout seeing if he could switch the call back. Sheesh.

He obviously was still reviewing something. Even if he was just looking to adjust the time, how can they re-review a play after the review has “concluded”? Shouldn’t the timeout(s) count as a “play” and prevent any further review?

WHOneedsSOX
01-12-2019, 05:03 PM
Brilliant play call. I thought Cam might be the number two option on the play, but it really looked like he was number one and RJ was a decoy.

This really bodes well for the rest of the season. Cam got out of his own way and just played ball. I really happy for the him.
I actually said in the game thread they should run a play for Cam. Good thing Coach K is as smart as me, lol kidding of course. But Cam is a much better catch and shoot guy than RJ. Or at least today he was. RJ needs to catch and take a dribble or two usually to get a rhythm. No time for that with 2.8 seconds left.

Indoor66
01-12-2019, 05:05 PM
Wouldn't surprise me. Yet, their last 3 FT shoulda been 2 FT as the foot sure looked to be on the line. But no replay/review there. :mad:

Water under the dam(n) now. Or, is that water over the bridge? :rolleyes:

Nah, the water is frozen.

4Gen
01-12-2019, 05:05 PM
Go back and look at the huddle before the last play. Coach K is not talking to Cam at all . . . until right at the end. He looks at Cam and says, “You’ll make it.” That’s Coach K! That’s Duke basketball!

I did go back. That's exactly what happened. Cam got only one remark directed to him. K is as good a psychologist as he is coach.

JStuart
01-12-2019, 05:07 PM
Wouldn't surprise me. Yet, their last 3 FT shoulda been 2 FT as the foot sure looked to be on the line. But no replay/review there. :mad:

Water under the dam(n) now. Or, is that water over the bridge? :rolleyes:

Water-hammer pulse? Passing water?
What a game....what a day for triangle basketball!

Indoor66
01-12-2019, 05:07 PM
I actually said in the game thread they should run a play for Cam. Good thing Coach K is as smart as me, lol kidding of course. But Cam is a much better catch and shoot guy than RJ. Or at least today he was. RJ needs to catch and take a dribble or two usually to get a rhythm. No time for that with 2.8 seconds left.

Unless your name is Laettner....

richmclean
01-12-2019, 05:09 PM
I actually said in the game thread they should run a play for Cam. Good thing Coach K is as smart as me, lol kidding of course. But Cam is a much better catch and shoot guy than RJ. Or at least today he was. RJ needs to catch and take a dribble or two usually to get a rhythm. No time for that with 2.8 seconds left.

One C. Laettner might disagree (2.1 seconds) :)

heyman25
01-12-2019, 05:10 PM
I'm just so, so happy for Cam Reddish. No more funk. At least for the present.
Cam needed this to happen. He is a winner and the team needs him playing at this level. Cam needs to build on this game and keep it going. Zion will be back I am sure,but this has to be team building game. Great sports psychology from Coach K.
Jones was great, but missed his mid range shots he usually hits. White was off on his shots. Barrett was fantastic.Bolden was battling, but both he and DeLaurier need to anticipate missed shots of the backboard better.

jv001
01-12-2019, 05:10 PM
I swear he was eyeing that replay in the last timeout seeing if he could switch the call back. Sheesh.

I thought the same thing. A couple of FSU guys were pointing to something. This after the overhead shot of the play shown by ESPN. I believe Coach would have went ballistic if they had changed the call. GoDuke!

ChrisDevil
01-12-2019, 05:13 PM
Big deal!

I changed seats on the couch with my husband at the half.

My son ran back to put his Kennard Jersey for the last play!!!!!!!!! Max gets partial credit.

DUKIE V(A)
01-12-2019, 05:14 PM
Cam critics....Shhhhhh! He is bigtime.

This is a mentally tough TEAM. Everyone has a role to play, and they play hard together and look like they love each other. They are more than Zion. They don’t care who gets the credit or the attention. They are happy for each other’s success. They get the job done. Very proud of all of them tonight.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-12-2019, 05:15 PM
They are featuring a video now that is titled "Controversial Call that Set Up Duke's Win." What a bunch of total horsesheeeeeeoooottttt

Clearly that ball was Duke ball.......did NOT hit Jack White, period.

NYBri
01-12-2019, 05:15 PM
Lost all sorts of bets in ACC wager challenge...but who cares? Great frickin win. 😎

WHOneedsSOX
01-12-2019, 05:16 PM
One C. Laettner might disagree (2.1 seconds) :)

lol definitely true but RJ is more of a facing the basket guy. Florida State defenders were good taking away his space and are long and athletic. Would've been a much tougher time trying to get to a spot where he's comfortable.

rthomas
01-12-2019, 05:16 PM
Best play of the game was Jack using his Flash superpowers to move ever so slightly to miss hitting the ball at 2.8 seconds. Brilliant!

DDoc74
01-12-2019, 05:19 PM
Takes a licking and keeps on ticking I don’t post much usually just “Lurk”.But after watching this game on my watch screen TV with stop action I just have to note how deceptive it is to watch on television. On the screen it clearly looks like our guys were getting called for touch fouls and at the same time we’re getting physically beaten up with no calls. Just goes to show you how my sight ihas gone south over the years.

Anyway a lot of the players had excellent games to make this happen. Won’r try to name them all they know who they are and know how well they played. But a special shout out to Cam for getting back to form and then sealing the deal.

DDoc74
(Also El Gallo ‘70, shout out to hoof n horn )

Bluedevil114
01-12-2019, 05:21 PM
That win required a special team. Not good, not great, but special. Just think of what we were up against:

A second half without arguably the best player in the country
A hostile road environment where it felt llike were playing 5 on 7 (an extra player for the crowd, and another for the refs *cough cough* TV Ted *cough cough*)
A team that arguably matches up as well against us as any in the country athletically, but with experience
The worst game of the year, arguably, from both our captains and primary role players
As Dickie V had to mention over and over and over, bad history against FSU when it comes to upsets
A hell of a lot of bounces (FTs, 50-50 calls, FSU making tough shots) not going our way

And still, we pulled it off. I can't think of a Duke team in the past 5 years that could've done what this team just did in those circumstances.

This game could/should get Cam's confidence back in droves. It came pretty darn close to redeeming R.J.'s struggles down the stretch against Gonzaga (the missed FT was all that stood in the way of full redemption). It showed that Marques Bolden can stand up to punishment from some of the best bigs in the country. And, finally, it showed we can beat a Top-15 team on the road without the presumptive Wooden Award leader.

Special.

I agree it was special but it was pretty similar to the win last season against Michigan State when Bagley got poked in the eye and we needed a team effort with a hot hand from Grayson to win. The biggest difference is we were on the road with TV Ted. Go Duke.

dalmatians98
01-12-2019, 05:22 PM
A photo on ESPN's site shows the moment Zion suffered the eye injury.
Someone less charitable than me might wonder whether that claw to the eyes was deliberate.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25744661/duke-blue-devils-forward-zion-williamson-exits-apparent-eye-injury

HereBeforeCoachK
01-12-2019, 05:23 PM
A photo on ESPN's site shows the moment Zion suffered the eye injury.
Someone less charitable than me might wonder whether that claw to the eyes was deliberate.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25744661/duke-blue-devils-forward-zion-williamson-exits-apparent-eye-injury

The FSU players are was extended outward after Zion went down....and he was slamming Zion's off arm with his other arm too....it was a total double hack...no call.

dukelifer
01-12-2019, 05:26 PM
Brilliant play call. I thought Cam might be the number two option on the play, but it really looked like he was number one and RJ was a decoy.

This really bodes well for the rest of the season. Cam got out of his own way and just played ball. I really happy for the him.

Jones threaded the ball perfectly to Cam in a great position to shoot it. The pass was almost as good as the shot

diablesseblu
01-12-2019, 05:28 PM
A photo on ESPN's site shows the moment Zion suffered the eye injury.
Someone less charitable than me might wonder whether that claw to the eyes was deliberate.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25744661/duke-blue-devils-forward-zion-williamson-exits-apparent-eye-injury

Glad you said that. I was thinking it when I saw this picture. And, why was there no stoppage of play?

Was not able to see the game. Now that I know from DBR that TV Teddy was officiating, I may not watch it. I thought he was no longer calling ACC games?

weezie
01-12-2019, 05:29 PM
My son ran back to put his Kennard Jersey for the last play!!!!!!!!! Max gets partial credit.

There ya go! Have to start them when they're young. Good son Max!

jv001
01-12-2019, 05:29 PM
The FSU players are was extended outward after Zion went down...and he was slamming Zion's off arm with his other arm too...it was a total double hack...no call.

It might just be me, but it seemed Coach K did not seem to cordial to Hamilton in the walk through post game. He got to see the physical play close up. GoDuke!

TruBlu
01-12-2019, 05:29 PM
A photo on ESPN's site shows the moment Zion suffered the eye injury.
Someone less charitable than me might wonder whether that claw to the eyes was deliberate.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25744661/duke-blue-devils-forward-zion-williamson-exits-apparent-eye-injury

I am that less charitable person in the Zeyeon Vigil thread.

Bob Green
01-12-2019, 05:30 PM
Ouch:

8943

shereec
01-12-2019, 05:31 PM
A photo on ESPN's site shows the moment Zion suffered the eye injury.
Someone less charitable than me might wonder whether that claw to the eyes was deliberate.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25744661/duke-blue-devils-forward-zion-williamson-exits-apparent-eye-injury

Deliberate or not, why wasn't it a foul? Betcha if a Duke player hit someone in the face going for the ball it would be...


Also, during that last time out when K was talking to everyone else, Cam kept looking at K. He was ready.

Coballs
01-12-2019, 05:32 PM
Noles fans were 2.8 seconds away from storming the court. Cam made sure it was cancelled.

Coballs
01-12-2019, 05:33 PM
Ouch:

8943

*Not a foul

toothmechanic72
01-12-2019, 05:36 PM
I was at the game. Sat across from the Duke bench. What a game! Glad I didn’t have to witness a court storming.

camion
01-12-2019, 05:40 PM
I was at the game. Sat across from the Duke bench. What a game! Glad I didn’t have to witness a court storming.

Actually there was a court storming after THE SHOT. I about half a dozen folks in blue rushed Cam for a group hug. :)

Papa John
01-12-2019, 05:41 PM
What a finish! I wouldn't call it a great game aesthetically, too much fouling, too choppy. But what an ending!!

We just beat FSU on the road with one (very muscled) hand tied behind our back.

Too much fouling? There were only 29 fouls called throughout... Let me rephrase for you—too many uncalled fouls. As one who tends to try to not look through Duke blue glasses during games, the officiating in this game was pretty embarrassing. Games at FSU tend to be very physical affairs, but I was stunned at some of the no-calls this afternoon. Zion spending a half on the bench? If this were the NBA, that crew wouldn't work a game for quite some time...


Tre struggled today, no Zion and Jack was a little off.

Tre didn't have a top flight game, but that has a lot to do with how well coached FSU is under Robinson, particularly in these situations, when the game is being called very loose so they can be very physical. Cam was absolutely amazing this afternoon!

jv001
01-12-2019, 05:41 PM
I was at the game. Sat across from the Duke bench. What a game! Glad I didn’t have to witness a court storming.

I'm glad you didn't either. A great day, the cheats get the heck beat out of them at cheatcenter and Duke wins at FSU. GoDuke!

SavDukeGrad
01-12-2019, 05:41 PM
Deliberate or not, why wasn't it a foul? Betcha if a Duke player hit someone in the face going for the ball it would be...


Also, during that last time out when K was talking to everyone else, Cam kept looking at K. He was ready.

Better yet, what if that FSU player was Grayson last year? Can you imagine what the universe would be saying right now, and what the ESPN headline would be???

JetpackJesus
01-12-2019, 05:47 PM
Speaking of TV Ted, do we think Dickie V realizes that's being used by everyone else as a pejorative?

devildeac
01-12-2019, 05:49 PM
Glad you said that. I was thinking it when I saw this picture. And, why was there no stoppage of play?

Was not able to see the game. Now that I know from DBR that TV Teddy was officiating, I may not watch it. I thought he was no longer calling ACC games?

The B1G fired him and he ends up in the acc. Go figure. :mad:

Kedsy
01-12-2019, 05:52 PM
ADVANCED STATS

Possessions: 72.27

OFFENSE

oRtg: 1.11 (our adjusted oRtg was 1.22).
eFG%: 54.6%
3pt%: 45.8% (2nd best three-performance of the season, after the Kentucky game (46.2%))
2pt%: 46.3% (2nd worst two-performance of the season, after the Gonzaga game (44.1%))
%threes: 36.9% (in light of the two numbers above, I'm cool with this number)
FT rate: 23.1% (lower than we should be, for the third straight game (i.e., all conference games so far)
OR%: 40.5% (very impressive against a big FSU team and with no Zion for half the game)
TO%: 19.4% (third less-than-good TO performances in our last four games)
a/to: 1:1
%assisted: 46.7%
fast break pts: 21 fb pts for 26.3% (this was basically the ball game)


DEFENSE

dRtg: 1.08 (adjusted that's 0.99, not great but I guess acceptable)
eFG%: 46.8% (ditto)
3pt%: 32.0%
2pt%: 45.9% (not great, but not bad, considering they had 10 dunks)
%threes: 40.3% (we let them take a lot of threes; lucky they didn't hit so many)
FT rate: 38.7% (pretty high but not too horrible)
DR%: 52.8% (our worst defensive rebounding performance of the season, by a lot)
TO%: 23.5% (ninth straight game over 20%)
a/to: 0.94:1 (broke an eight game streak under 0.8:1)
%assisted: 64.0%
fast break pts: 4 fb pts for 5.1% (ninth straight game under 16%)
block%: 4.8%; 8.1% of 2-point shots (not great, but it's hard to block dunks)
steal%: 9.7% (second straight only so-so game, compared to our season steals performance)

We couldn't grab a defensive rebound (though we can't blame Marques this time, he led the team with 4 d-boards), and we hit a lot of threes (including the big one at the end). That about sums it up.

-jk
01-12-2019, 05:54 PM
Glad you said that. I was thinking it when I saw this picture. And, why was there no stoppage of play?

Was not able to see the game. Now that I know from DBR that TV Teddy was officiating, I may not watch it. I thought he was no longer calling ACC games?

Without a serious, threatening injury they don't stop when it's on the defense - by rule. As soon as the ball changes hands, they stop play.

I suspect it's about faked injuries. (c.f., Deano)

-jk

richardjackson199
01-12-2019, 05:55 PM
They are featuring a video now that is titled "Controversial Call that Set Up Duke's Win." What a bunch of total horsesheeeeeeoooottttt

Clearly that ball was Duke ball....did NOT hit Jack White, period.

Yep. And when Seth Greenberg did the Duke highlights during the Kansas game halftime, they did it again. They presented the highlight as the refs gave FSU the ball, but "the call was overturned and the ball given to Duke." Greenberg literally said "when you coach against Duke calls like that tend not to go your way." Pathetic. The ball was obviously Duke's on the replay. But Duke gets all the calls Duke-hate controversy gets more clicks.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-12-2019, 05:56 PM
*Not a foul

Duke gets all the calls.......:rolleyes:

devildeac
01-12-2019, 05:57 PM
Too much fouling? There were only 29 fouls called throughout... Let me rephrase for you—too many uncalled fouls. As one who tends to try to not look through Duke blue glasses during games, the officiating in this game was pretty embarrassing. Games at FSU tend to be very physical affairs, but I was stunned at some of the no-calls this afternoon. Zion spending a half on the bench? If this were the NBA, that crew wouldn't work a game for quite some time...



Tre didn't have a top flight game, but that has a lot to do with how well coached FSU is under Robinson, particularly in these situations, when the game is being called very loose so they can be very physical. Cam was absolutely amazing this afternoon!

and, in the acc, they'll get extra assignments...

We won. I'm happy so I'll I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. and moan less and there have been worse reffed games down there but you can't have 2 standards calling a game depending on which team has the ball.

devildeac
01-12-2019, 05:59 PM
Yep. And when Seth Greenberg did the Duke highlights during the Kansas game halftime, they did it again. They presented the highlight as the refs gave FSU the ball, but "the call was overturned and the ball given to Duke." Greenberg literally said "when you coach against Duke calls like that tend not to go your way." Pathetic. The ball was obviously Duke's on the replay. But Duke gets all the calls Duke-hate controversy gets more clicks.

Even more reason/s to despise greenburg now, like I needed any more. What a #$%^.

Kfanarmy
01-12-2019, 06:00 PM
A photo on ESPN's site shows the moment Zion suffered the eye injury.
Someone less charitable than me might wonder whether that claw to the eyes was deliberate.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25744661/duke-blue-devils-forward-zion-williamson-exits-apparent-eye-injury

Looked intentional to me in real time.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-12-2019, 06:00 PM
and, in the acc, they'll get extra assignments...

We won. I'm happy so I'll I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. and moan less and there have been worse reffed games down there but you can't have 2 standards calling a game depending on which team has the ball.

Nah, the time to I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. and moan is with a WIN....so it's not an excuse.....it's a valid complaint.

Dukehky
01-12-2019, 06:00 PM
Too much fouling? There were only 29 fouls called throughout... Let me rephrase for you—too many uncalled fouls. As one who tends to try to not look through Duke blue glasses during games, the officiating in this game was pretty embarrassing. Games at FSU tend to be very physical affairs, but I was stunned at some of the no-calls this afternoon. Zion spending a half on the bench? If this were the NBA, that crew wouldn't work a game for quite some time...



Tre didn't have a top flight game, but that has a lot to do with how well coached FSU is under Robinson, particularly in these situations, when the game is being called very loose so they can be very physical. Cam was absolutely amazing this afternoon!

I said something similar upthread, that this was Tre's worst game by far.

I think it was, but he still had a pretty solid day. 6 assists, 1 TO. 6 points isn't great. I think a lot of it was his having to play 40 minutes. Forrest is a heady player with some experience so it didn't shock me that Tre couldn't control him defensively. But he just seemed a little out of whack, a little less in control than he normally is. Doesn't matter in the grand scheme. Would've preferred to see him hit that FT down the stretch though.

I think he needs to shoot more in games we're winning handily to try and get some rhythm. If he becomes comfortable at all shooting the ball, and Cam is like this, we're unbeatable.

TKG
01-12-2019, 06:01 PM
How did Javin not come away with a single rebound today? 0 points. 0 rebounds.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-12-2019, 06:02 PM
I said something similar upthread, that this was Tre's worst game by far.

I think it was, but he still had a pretty solid day. 6 assists, 1 TO. 6 points isn't great. I think a lot of it was his having to play 40 minutes. Forrest is a heady player with some experience so it didn't shock me that Tre couldn't control him defensively. But he just seemed a little out of whack, a little less in control than he normally is. Doesn't matter in the grand scheme. Would've preferred to see him hit that FT down the stretch though.

I think he needs to shoot more in games we're winning handily to try and get some rhythm. If he becomes comfortable at all shooting the ball, and Cam is like this, we're unbeatable.

I'm pretty sure Tre had 2-3 TO.......one was probably called a shot when it was a little runner lob......

Papa John
01-12-2019, 06:02 PM
Duke gets all the calls....:rolleyes:

Daniel Ewing just got T'd up by TV Teddy...

HereBeforeCoachK
01-12-2019, 06:06 PM
How did Javin not come away with a single rebound today? 0 points. 0 rebounds.

Between his total lack of boxing out fundamentals and his shaky hands....not surprising...I mean, why should someone who is 6-11 and a great natural leaper get any rebounds.....??

-jk
01-12-2019, 06:11 PM
Between his total lack of boxing out fundamentals and his shaky hands...not surprising...

But he didn't miss a shot today! Alaa is still quaking!

-jk

downtowndevil
01-12-2019, 06:11 PM
Was anyone else worried TV-T was going to t up the Duke bench at the end?

-jk
01-12-2019, 06:12 PM
Was anyone else worried TV-T was going to t up the Duke bench at the end?

For what? Clock had expired (before being reset).

-jk

DU82
01-12-2019, 06:13 PM
For what? Clock had expired (before being reset).

-jk

Would it have mattered? Does he need a real reason to grab more TV time?

downtowndevil
01-12-2019, 06:17 PM
For what? Clock had expired (before being reset).

-jk

I haven’t seen the definitive replay but there was a chance players were off the bench on the court before the clock was 0:00. He prob wanted to review that on the monitor while they were checking the actual time left! But anyway... on to the next one

-jk
01-12-2019, 06:19 PM
Would it have mattered? Does he need a real reason to grab more TV time?

Well, I figure he does want to get more games (for good or ill)...

-jk

sagegrouse
01-12-2019, 06:29 PM
I haven’t seen the definitive replay but there was a chance players were off the bench on the court before the clock was 0:00. He prob wanted to review that on the monitor while they were checking the actual time left! But anyway... on to the next one

The clock stops in the last 2:00 when the ball goes through the basket.

DangerDevil
01-12-2019, 06:31 PM
*Not a foul

Which one wasn’t a foul?

1) The eye gouge
2) The held right arm
3) The arm in the back

Pghdukie
01-12-2019, 06:31 PM
2 hrs 20 minutes of TV-Teddy and Vitale. OUCH ! I wouldn't have been surprised if Dicky V would have given Teddy some airtime during the last 30 seconds. An on-court on-camera interview !

sagegrouse
01-12-2019, 06:32 PM
Would it have mattered? Does he need a real reason to grab more TV time?

He has a granddaughter, and he wants her to see him on TV. Sounds like a pretty good reason to me.... :D

dbduke
01-12-2019, 06:33 PM
The clock stops in the last 2:00 when the ball goes through the basket.

It’s supposed to but in this case it did not. Buzzer sounded, backboard light went red. Storming the court is allowed in that case. A technical would not have been appropriate (not that it would stop TV Ted. FTG)

Duke76
01-12-2019, 06:34 PM
Brilliant play call. I thought Cam might be the number two option on the play, but it really looked like he was number one and RJ was a decoy.

This really bodes well for the rest of the season. Cam got out of his own way and just played ball. I really happy for the him.

if you really look at a freeze frame of the start of the play you can tell two guys were focusing on RJ and the one guy between in front of Jack and Cam got screened by Jack as Cam went right...really think the play was to RJ first and then Cam if RJ was double teamed....great play call...they had to pick their poison and went with the double team and Cam made them pay for it.....so happy for him...he had a great game like he was playing earlier in the year...they climbed another mountain together today

fuse
01-12-2019, 06:37 PM
The biggest takeaway (all the drama aside) is the team displayed resilience and toughness in the face of adversity.

I believe RJ Barrett has a Laettner “MFer” streak that was on display today.

For all the grief and hand wringing about Cam this season so far, he stepped up when it mattered and had the guts to take and make the last shot.

There are a lot of difficult games remaining on the schedule. Today’s outcome gives me a lot of hope we’ll see this team triumph in the face of future adversity.

ncexnyc
01-12-2019, 06:40 PM
How did Javin not come away with a single rebound today? 0 points. 0 rebounds.
Are you channeling your inner Ed Cota?

thewoosh31
01-12-2019, 06:53 PM
Between his total lack of boxing out fundamentals and his shaky hands...not surprising...I mean, why should someone who is 6-11 and a great natural leaper get any rebounds....??

So true. His hands are terrible, especially on offense. He can only catch the ball when it’s thrown into his body. Him and Marques. I call him Javin De-throwaway if he tries to catch the ball with only his hands lol.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m rooting for the guy, but man he was frustrating to watch today.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-12-2019, 07:15 PM
if you really look at a freeze frame of the start of the play you can tell two guys were focusing on RJ and the one guy between in front of Jack and Cam got screened by Jack as Cam went right...really think the play was to RJ first and then Cam if RJ was double teamed...great play call...they had to pick their poison and went with the double team and Cam made them pay for it....so happy for him...he had a great game like he was playing earlier in the year...they climbed another mountain together today

Kind of like a football pattern......RJ was technically "the first option" on this play in general - but K knew that in this game and this situation - Florida State would take that away....so that the second option....Cam...was really the most likely option. Tre knew to go through the motions of looking to RJ - then hitting Cam - which he did with perfect comfortable pass. I am sure that if somehow RJ had snuck in alone underneath, Tre would've fed him, but no way FSU was letting RJ get to the rim.

According to Hamilton's comments post game, they were focused on RJ, but one of the players who should have guarded the elbow bit on the RJ pick and fake...leaving Cam totally alone. It's like a safety who took the wrong man in football coverage.

MartyClark
01-12-2019, 07:39 PM
I'll take the credit for this win folks! Today i climbed a volcano (Volcan Sta Maria in Guatemala, 3772m). The only play of the game that took place after firing up the ol' internet was Cam's 3 for the win.
Looks like Duke got hot from 3 for the first time in a while, and we got essentially nothing from our big men.
Always tough to win at FSU, so this one is pure gold!

I don't want to bury the lede here but I am very impressed that you climbed this peak. I've been to Guatemala about 15 times doing volunteer work and have always wanted to climb this volcano. Privately, or otherwise, I'd love to hear your experience. Did you have a guide?

Back to reality, or probably our mutual fantasy world, what a satisfying win by Duke. I was hoping that Cam would get, and make, the last shot. This could be the start of something big for Cam and Duke.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-12-2019, 07:58 PM
It's four hours after the game, and goduke.com still hasn't posted the post game presser. What is up with that?

OldPhiKap
01-12-2019, 08:07 PM
It's four hours after the game, and goduke.com still hasn't posted the post game presser. What is up with that?

Road games seem to take longer, if they upload them at all.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-12-2019, 08:12 PM
Road games seem to take longer, if they upload them at all.

yeah, it's funny.....Duke's social media department is state of the art, ahead of the curve.....some other parts of the University seem to be in the pony express days....

sagegrouse
01-12-2019, 08:24 PM
The clock stops in the last 2:00 when the ball goes through the basket.

Actually, it's the last 1:00 of regulation and all overtime periods. Shoulda put a question mark in with my first guess.

heyman25
01-12-2019, 08:26 PM
So true. His hands are terrible, especially on offense. He can only catch the ball when it’s thrown into his body. Him and Marques. I call him Javin De-throwaway if he tries to catch the ball with only his hands lol.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m rooting for the guy, but man he was frustrating to watch today.
DeLaurier and Bolden needs some fundamental practice blocking out and anticipation for rebounds. We did very badly today in that effort. Actually the whole team could gang rebound.
See what happens Monday night.

I am hoping Reddish will become consistent and avoid forced errors like any contact after a 3 is shot or mishandling the ball to lose it untouched. White and Jones should shoot better next game against Syracuse. O'Connell needs to give us more off the bench.

OldPhiKap
01-12-2019, 08:29 PM
K’s press conference is up:

https://www.facebook.com/102875824455/posts/10157066941194456/

MChambers
01-12-2019, 08:37 PM
K’s press conference is up:

https://www.facebook.com/102875824455/posts/10157066941194456/

And here, for those who avoid FB: http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&id=6306387

ChillinDuke
01-12-2019, 08:41 PM
Coach pants'd Leonard Hamilton.

Just a ridiculous play call.

I mean you wanted it to happen. You thought it should happen. You sat there and were like, if anyone has a bag of tricks to sift through for this single baseline out of bounds, it should be K.

Then that happens and you're just like, man it's good to be a Duke fan.

K just totally a master.

- Chillin

ETA - I wonder if K looks at the score during games. Some coaches don't...

uh_no
01-12-2019, 08:44 PM
DeLaurier and Bolden needs some fundamental practice blocking out and anticipation for rebounds. We did very badly today in that effort. Actually the whole team could gang rebound.
See what happens Monday night.

I am hoping Reddish will become consistent and avoid forced errors like any contact after a 3 is shot or mishandling the ball to lose it untouched. White and Jones should shoot better next game against Syracuse. O'Connell needs to give us more off the bench.

I was on my bike trainer, so already high on testosterone and low on brain function....Many expletives were inerted between the words "box" and "out" as I scared my cat while screaming at the TV.

There were so many positives from today's game, but defensive rebounding was not one of them.

fan345678
01-12-2019, 08:50 PM
8946

MChambers
01-12-2019, 08:50 PM
It might just be me, but it seemed Coach K did not seem to cordial to Hamilton in the walk through post game. He got to see the physical play close up. GoDuke!

Coach K went out of his way to compliment Hamilton in the post-game conference. Said they are close friends.

MChambers
01-12-2019, 08:54 PM
Yep. And when Seth Greenberg did the Duke highlights during the Kansas game halftime, they did it again. They presented the highlight as the refs gave FSU the ball, but "the call was overturned and the ball given to Duke." Greenberg literally said "when you coach against Duke calls like that tend not to go your way." Pathetic. The ball was obviously Duke's on the replay. But Duke gets all the calls Duke-hate controversy gets more clicks.

Greenberg used to say stuff like that when he was a coach, too, at USF. He’s a loser. I have to mute the TV when he’s on.

Tripping William
01-12-2019, 08:59 PM
Greenberg used to say stuff like that when he was a coach, too, at USF. He’s a loser. I have to mute the TV when he’s on.

Sean Dockery lives rent-free in his head. Actually, the Crazies do, too.

arnie
01-12-2019, 09:02 PM
Even more reason/s to despise greenburg now, like I needed any more. What a #$%^.

He’s incredibly dishonest. A thug coach and thug announcer - it must be very uncomfortable for Jay to work with him.

devildeac
01-12-2019, 09:02 PM
Which one wasn’t a foul?

1) The eye gouge
2) The held right arm
3) The arm in the back

3), because I can't tell there is definite contact there and I don't know whose hand it is.

Tripping William
01-12-2019, 09:06 PM
He’s incredibly dishonest. A thug coach and thug announcer - it must be very uncomfortable for Jay to work with him.

There’s a fair bit of buzz about him. No, wait: That’s the current VaTech coach. Apologies.

DoWorkDukie
01-12-2019, 09:08 PM
Any word on Zion? Assuming he'll be alright, but hoping he didn't scratch his eye badly a la Bags.

We really missed his rebounding out there. Cam, Bolden, and Javin could use some blocking out tips. Zion doesn't always block out, but he meets the ball at its apex and makes up for it with his jumping ability.

Jack boxes out really well and meets the ball at its apex too. Florida state is obviously more physical than any team we've played besides the Zags.

richardjackson199
01-12-2019, 09:11 PM
Any word on Zion? Assuming he'll be alright, but hoping he didn't scratch his eye badly a la Bags.

We really missed his rebounding out there. Cam, Bolden, and Javin could use some blocking out tips. Zion doesn't always block out, but he meets the ball at its apex and makes up for it with his jumping ability.

Jack boxes out really well and meets the ball at its apex too. Florida state is obviously more physical than any team we've played besides the Zags.

Yes. Listening to Coach K in the press conference he very plainly and confidently said "He's better now. So hopefully he will play Monday." He then went on to clarify that when he said it was a big loss, he meant to not have him for the latter half of the FSU game. I think it's safe to assume that Zion is fine.

arnie
01-12-2019, 09:15 PM
DeLaurier and Bolden needs some fundamental practice blocking out and anticipation for rebounds. We did very badly today in that effort. Actually the whole team could gang rebound.
See what happens Monday night.

I am hoping Reddish will become consistent and avoid forced errors like any contact after a 3 is shot or mishandling the ball to lose it untouched. White and Jones should shoot better next game against Syracuse. O'Connell needs to give us more off the bench.

OTOH, if Reddish is out of his shooting slump and Zion’s eye injury is healed, we are scary good. Just in time for Syracuse and UVA next week.

devildeac
01-12-2019, 09:19 PM
Any word on Zion? Assuming he'll be alright, but hoping he didn't scratch his eye badly a la Bags.

We really missed his rebounding out there. Cam, Bolden, and Javin could use some blocking out tips. Zion doesn't always block out, but he meets the ball at its apex and makes up for it with his jumping ability.

Jack boxes out really well and meets the ball at its apex too. Florida state is obviously more physical than any team we've played besides the Zags.

From a Steve Wiseman tweet after the game:

"Update from Coach K on Zion Williamson injury: Poked in left eye. Experienced double vision. While going thru 2nd-half warmups, realized he couldn't shake it. Postgame the vision cleared up. Should be ok for Syracuse."

uh_no
01-12-2019, 09:24 PM
From a Steve Wiseman tweet after the game:

"Update from Coach K on Zion Williamson injury: Poked in left eye. Experienced double vision. While going thru 2nd-half warmups, realized he couldn't shake it. Postgame the vision cleared up. Should be ok for Syracuse."

Glad to hear he's healed up. Eyes are scary.

If his persona is anything like its public perception, While Zion would have wanted to be out there, he would have been thrilled for the rest of the team to pull it out like that.

DoWorkDukie
01-12-2019, 09:24 PM
Good deal- glad it wasn't worse. Looked like he got poked pretty good, so i'm glad it didn't get scratched. I think bagley's got scratched, if i remember right. His looked a lot worse in terms of blood in the eye, etc

HereBeforeCoachK
01-12-2019, 09:27 PM
If his persona is anything like its public perception, While Zion would have wanted to be out there, he would have been thrilled for the rest of the team to pull it out like that.

K mentioned this specifically in the presser....paraphrasing....said Zion was "almost tearing up, so happy for his teammates....said he had never been a part of anything like this before....'

Made me love that dude even more!

uh_no
01-12-2019, 09:35 PM
K mentioned this specifically in the presser...paraphrasing...said Zion was "almost tearing up, so happy for his teammates...said he had never been a part of anything like this before...'

Made me love that dude even more!

Well, that part was to be expected regardless of the outcome :D

UrinalCake
01-12-2019, 09:36 PM
Amazing play call to spring Cam for a wide open shot. Everyone in the building thought that RJ was getting the ball, but Cam had been hot all night. I’m curious as to whether that was the initial play call or whether K switched it after seeing the defense and calling a timeout (or after FSU then called a timeout).

Once the excitement of the win fades and the team analyzes the game, I imagine they’ll see that rebounding was an issue. Obviously not having Zion was a big part of that, but we gave up so many second chance points. Also Zion went up against probably the biggest, most athletic front court he’s faced all year. Got stuffed pretty badly once and stopped on a couple other drives that looked like fouls, but we’re going to have games where the refs allow it. I would have liked to see how he adjusted in the second half.

So happy with the team’s fight. There were several plays that could have been backbreakers, such as FSU banking in a three while Zion writhed on the floor, but we kept coming. We didn’t get as many transition points as we’re used to, but executed well in the half court. Also, we should never play zone, ever. That final possession of the first half was big.

richardjackson199
01-12-2019, 09:43 PM
Amazing play call to spring Cam for a wide open shot. Everyone in the building thought that RJ was getting the ball, but Cam had been hot all night. I’m curious as to whether that was the initial play call or whether K switched it after seeing the defense and calling a timeout (or after FSU then called a timeout).

Once the excitement of the win fades and the team analyzes the game, I imagine they’ll see that rebounding was an issue. Obviously not having Zion was a big part of that, but we gave up so many second chance points. Also Zion went up against probably the biggest, most athletic front court he’s faced all year. Got stuffed pretty badly once and stopped on a couple other drives that looked like fouls, but we’re going to have games where the refs allow it. I would have liked to see how he adjusted in the second half.

So happy with the team’s fight. There were several plays that could have been backbreakers, such as FSU banking in a three while Zion writhed on the floor, but we kept coming. We didn’t get as many transition points as we’re used to, but executed well in the half court. Also, we should never play zone, ever. That final possession of the first half was big.

K was asked that question in the press conference. He said he changed the play after every time out at the end.

Tripping William
01-12-2019, 09:44 PM
Also, we should never play zone, ever. That final possession of the first half was big.

Shhhh. Don’t tell Old Dukie ....

HereBeforeCoachK
01-12-2019, 09:44 PM
Amazing play call to spring Cam for a wide open shot. Everyone in the building thought that RJ was getting the ball, but Cam had been hot all night. I’m curious as to whether that was the initial play call or whether K switched it after seeing the defense and calling a timeout (or after FSU then called a timeout).
.

It's like a football play progression....where the QB goes thru and picks out the receiver who's open based on the defense. On this play, technically RJ is the primary receiver. But K and Duke were pretty sure that FSU would have him covered up, and that the attention to RJ would open up Cam. You can see the QB, Tre, look first at RJ, then go to his second option, Cam, who was wide open.

This was what I thought from watching the game, and the interview with Tre post game confirmed it. In some situations, RJ would probably be open, but the way this game was unfolding, it was clear that RJ would have way too much company in the lane tonight.

brevity
01-12-2019, 10:17 PM
Duke Basketball on Twitter (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB) has an interesting video (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/1084225099153199105) of Cam Reddish's shot and the team's celebration. My favorite part is at the 0:52 mark:

8947

Pretty sure nobody thought to compare Zion Williamson to Thomas Hill.

(And here's another video (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/1084203719896518656), taken from behind the Duke bench.)

Saratoga2
01-12-2019, 10:40 PM
2 hrs 20 minutes of TV-Teddy and Vitale. OUCH ! I wouldn't have been surprised if Dicky V would have given Teddy some airtime during the last 30 seconds. An on-court on-camera interview !

I had the sound muted for 90% of the game. Once when on, I heard Vitale giving advice to Fla State. NO thanks.

devildeac
01-12-2019, 10:41 PM
Duke Basketball on Twitter (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB) has an interesting video (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/1084225099153199105) of Cam Reddish's shot and the team's celebration. My favorite part is at the 0:52 mark:

8947

Pretty sure nobody thought to compare Zion Williamson to Thomas Hill.

(And here's another video (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/1084203719896518656), taken from behind the Duke bench.)

Both those angles demonstrate what a great call it was with perfect execution. Our son said leornard commented after the game that the wing and/or Cam's area was supposed to have been covered, too.

AZLA
01-12-2019, 11:00 PM
Amazing play call to spring Cam for a wide open shot. Everyone in the building thought that RJ was getting the ball, but Cam had been hot all night. I’m curious as to whether that was the initial play call or whether K switched it after seeing the defense and calling a timeout (or after FSU then called a timeout).

Once the excitement of the win fades and the team analyzes the game, I imagine they’ll see that rebounding was an issue. Obviously not having Zion was a big part of that, but we gave up so many second chance points. Also Zion went up against probably the biggest, most athletic front court he’s faced all year. Got stuffed pretty badly once and stopped on a couple other drives that looked like fouls, but we’re going to have games where the refs allow it. I would have liked to see how he adjusted in the second half.

So happy with the team’s fight. There were several plays that could have been backbreakers, such as FSU banking in a three while Zion writhed on the floor, but we kept coming. We didn’t get as many transition points as we’re used to, but executed well in the half court. Also, we should never play zone, ever. That final possession of the first half was big.

Goes to show how amazing Zion is at rebounding and put backs. He was battling some big tough nba sized guys inside. He got doubled and blocked a couple times but he was still putting up a solid shooting percentage and a quiet ten or so (?) points. His first basket attacking their center and laying it in (probably was fouled) was great. I love that he sees a challenge and goes right at them. But you’re right; his superior defensive rebounding and boxout ability in the paint was sorely apparent when he was out and FSU had their way all second half with rebounds and second chance shots... err slam dunks.

So proud of Cam!!

jimsumner
01-12-2019, 11:05 PM
I had the sound muted for 90% of the game. Once when on, I heard Vitale giving advice to Fla State. NO thanks.

He spent most of the game promoting his new book.

uh_no
01-12-2019, 11:07 PM
He spent most of the game promoting his new book.

I may be in the minority, but I still prefer Bilas less and was happy to see he was at the Carolina game.

Super awkward moment today though, when Dick said "I'd trade your age for my salary"....awkward....

Saratoga2
01-12-2019, 11:12 PM
AOC didn't get much PT tonight but when he was out there he looked overmatched. He has the athleticism and quickness but just made too many mistakes. Fla St is an athletic and tough team so it is no big deal, but AOC needs to play better going forward.

richardjackson199
01-12-2019, 11:13 PM
I may be in the minority, but I still prefer Bilas less and was happy to see he was at the Carolina game.

Super awkward moment today though, when Dick said "I'd trade your age for my salary"...awkward...

Vitale was beaming as he often does "We get paid for this!" The other announcer said "You get paid," I thought insinuating that Dickie V had a much higher salary. Vitale's response later "I'd trade your age for my salary" was awkward, but I think that's where that comment came from.

dukelifer
01-12-2019, 11:24 PM
It's like a football play progression...where the QB goes thru and picks out the receiver who's open based on the defense. On this play, technically RJ is the primary receiver. But K and Duke were pretty sure that FSU would have him covered up, and that the attention to RJ would open up Cam. You can see the QB, Tre, look first at RJ, then go to his second option, Cam, who was wide open.

This was what I thought from watching the game, and the interview with Tre post game confirmed it. In some situations, RJ would probably be open, but the way this game was unfolding, it was clear that RJ would have way too much company in the lane tonight.

Tre was laser focused. Kid makes the whole show run smoothly.

Neals384
01-12-2019, 11:27 PM
I said something similar upthread, that this was Tre's worst game by far.

I think it was, but he still had a pretty solid day. 6 assists, 1 TO. 6 points isn't great. I think a lot of it was his having to play 40 minutes. Forrest is a heady player with some experience so it didn't shock me that Tre couldn't control him defensively. But he just seemed a little out of whack, a little less in control than he normally is. Doesn't matter in the grand scheme. Would've preferred to see him hit that FT down the stretch though.

I think he needs to shoot more in games we're winning handily to try and get some rhythm. If he becomes comfortable at all shooting the ball, and Cam is like this, we're unbeatable.

It was a tale of two halves for Tre. First half, 2 for 9, 2 boards, 1 assist, 1 TO, 2 steals. 2nd half, 2 for 4, 3 boards, 5 assists, no TO, 1 steal. Someone upthread said Tre played the entire game. Nope, he went to the bench for 1 possession in the 2nd half. So 39:32, round it to 40 in the box score. RJ played the entire game.

Old Dukie
01-12-2019, 11:34 PM
Shhhh. Don’t tell Old Dukie ...

Old Dukie knows better...teams that mix up their defenses when needed will win the big ones. Just review what happened to UNC today if you need proof.

moonpie23
01-12-2019, 11:35 PM
i'm pretty sure my direct quote on chat was: Cam is going to save us today!"

gofurman
01-12-2019, 11:45 PM
Awesome win !

Keys for Syracuse

Get healthy Zion!

It's in MONDAY. I really don't like how ACC has one day turns... Used to be a Wednesday - Saturday league and sometimes you played Saturday - Tuesday or Sunday - Wednesday. But not a one day turn. That's tough coming off FSU who is soooooo physical. I wish you always got two days between

That zone. Would be nice to have an extra day to prep for the most unique D we face.

At least it's at home.

we do get extra days to prep for UVA who looks awesome.

killerleft
01-12-2019, 11:56 PM
i'm pretty sure my direct quote on chat was: Cam is going to save us today!"

I'm pretty sure you'd seen the shot go in by then.:o

Old Dukie
01-13-2019, 12:19 AM
Shhhh. Don’t tell Old Dukie ...

Never play zone?...LOL! Zone D today would have covered for many of those lobs and easy pic 'n rolls!!

Kedsy
01-13-2019, 12:28 AM
Old Dukie knows better...teams that mix up their defenses when needed will win the big ones.

If you're really an old Dukie, you'd know that Duke's national champions in 1991, 1992, 2001, and 2010 never mixed up their defenses. How does that play into your declaration?

Stray Gator
01-13-2019, 12:51 AM
Never play zone?...LOL! Zone D today would have covered for many of those lobs and easy pic 'n rolls!!

And yet, FSU still only shot 40% from the floor for the game. The main reason the Noles kept it close was because -- as always seems to be the case when Duke plays there -- they benefited from a disproportionate number of trips to the free throw line, where they converted a blistering 20-24 (83.3%). Since Duke was only 9-15 from the line, that accounts for a hefty 11-point advantage to the Noles. It also merits noting that if and when Duke goes to the zone, it's less likely that they'll be able to force as many turnovers, which provide those transition opportunities on which this team excels. Every strategic choice entails a compensating trade-off.

This team, unlike most freshman-dominated squads, has demonstrated that it is capable of playing man-to-man defense at an elite level. So far, it appears that K has chosen wisely in adhering to that defensive strategy.

gofurman
01-13-2019, 01:14 AM
Awesome win !

Moved to another thread by GoFurman

BandAlum83
01-13-2019, 03:26 AM
I generally make it a point to never complain or moan about officiating. I certainly don’t blame refs for losses. Teams have to overcome and make baskets to take the game out of the refs hands.

All that being said, this game is a good example of how a team overcomes, because the officiating in this game, by my eyes was consistently called in an inconsistent manner at either end of the court. This was terrible! Contact on duke players driving was rarely called, while contact on an FSU players was called a foul constantly.

It was pretty glaring. The eye poke is a great example, but there were plenty more.

Something really needs to be done.

RaiderDevil
01-13-2019, 07:29 AM
If you're really an old Dukie, you'd know that Duke's national champions in 1991, 1992, 2001, and 2010 never mixed up their defenses. How does that play into your declaration?

They mixed it up all the time. Sometimes full court man to man, sometimes half court man to man, sometimes three quarter court man to man. I miss those days.

dukelifer
01-13-2019, 08:02 AM
i'm pretty sure my direct quote on chat was: Cam is going to save us today!"

Because as we know- you live in the future. Today I celebrated a full 15 sec before I saw the shot go in!

UrinalCake
01-13-2019, 08:02 AM
Never play zone?...LOL! Zone D today would have covered for many of those lobs and easy pic 'n rolls!!

I saw us play zone on only one possession - the final possession of the first half. As soon as we did it I literally turned to my buddy and said we were going to give up a corner three. I get the notion of mixing things up, and it was a good time to try to throw of FSU’s offense, but when we play it so little and likely don’t practice it a whole lot then it’s probably not going to be very effective.

Saratoga2
01-13-2019, 08:48 AM
It was a tale of two halves for Tre. First half, 2 for 9, 2 boards, 1 assist, 1 TO, 2 steals. 2nd half, 2 for 4, 3 boards, 5 assists, no TO, 1 steal. Someone upthread said Tre played the entire game. Nope, he went to the bench for 1 possession in the 2nd half. So 39:32, round it to 40 in the box score. RJ played the entire game.

This game was against a very big and athletic team and in their arena. It also featured referees who seemed to allow extreme contact against our players. Small wonder some of our guys were a little flummoxed by it and didn't shoot as well or rebound as well as expected. Yet we won and of course did it without our most athletic and strongest player for all but 17 minutes. Still we won and we had a greatly improved game from Cam. NO doubt that he and RJ carried the team. This was a trial by fire and we are unlikely to face any other team that will be as physical or will get away with it as much.

devilsince1977
01-13-2019, 08:56 AM
Tre was laser focused. Kid makes the whole show run smoothly.

I think you just hit the nail on the head, except you spelled Kidd wrong. Tre Jones: Jason Kidd seems like a pretty good comparison to me.

duke2x
01-13-2019, 08:57 AM
That was worth the trip from RDU. :) I had a different perspective in person--almost like attending a mass Aztec sacrifice for the last 0.8 seconds. :eek: Just get the roads in good shape by the time my plane lands.

Troublemaker
01-13-2019, 09:11 AM
I wish I had something substantive to add. That was just an awesome game, and the player we most needed to step up did so throughout the game and also hit the confidence-boosting game-winner. We hopefully see a very good Cam Reddish the rest of the season.

Monday's going to be tough because of the quick turnaround, but if Zion is healthy and we can survive Monday, then Cam's improvement will cause Duke to level up as a team after Monday.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-13-2019, 09:14 AM
Monday's going to be tough because of the quick turnaround, but if Zion is healthy and we can survive Monday, then Cam's improvement will cause Duke to level up as a team after Monday.

Yes, tough turn around after big emotional game....and a Syracuse team that will likely be champing at the bit to wash their previous game from their system. And zero time almost to prep for that zone.

Saratoga2
01-13-2019, 09:19 AM
Duke Basketball on Twitter (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB) has an interesting video (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/1084225099153199105) of Cam Reddish's shot and the team's celebration. My favorite part is at the 0:52 mark:

8947

Pretty sure nobody thought to compare Zion Williamson to Thomas Hill.

(And here's another video (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/1084203719896518656), taken from behind the Duke bench.)


This is a classic video and shows how emotional a game can be with the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat. This is a keeper and shows how much feeling that Cam and Jack showed coming off the court. whoever took this one hit a home run here.

Indoor66
01-13-2019, 09:22 AM
I don't get the angst about a two day turnaround. This is the same environment at the NCAA Tournament and is what K has worked to prepare the team for all year. I find it a good thing.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-13-2019, 09:22 AM
Duke Basketball on Twitter (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB) has an interesting video (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/1084225099153199105) of Cam Reddish's shot and the team's celebration. My favorite part is at the 0:52 mark:

8947

Pretty sure nobody thought to compare Zion Williamson to Thomas Hill.

(And here's another video (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/1084203719896518656), taken from behind the Duke bench.)

Actually Brev - I instantly thought of the Thomas Hill "surrender cobra" - which is normally done in despair, but sometimes done in amazing and emotional win situations. The "surrender cobra" wasn't a thing back in 92....T Hill was a trend setter.....

NSDukeFan
01-13-2019, 09:26 AM
I thought Bolden had a very nice game and I don’t think there were as many alley-oops when he was in the game. He is just so long and has been using that length very well on defence. I am enjoying watching him play better more consistently. Very nice to see.

Cam Reddish!

R.J. freaking Barrett!

CDu
01-13-2019, 09:49 AM
Perhaps my third-favorite thing about that game-winner (after it going in and after it being made by the guy who needed it most) was Nate James’ reaction. Everyone else goes nuts, including Coach K. But not Nate. He just stands up slowly and starts clapping. One cool customer.

Also, that was a pretty entertaining game. Frustrating at times. But lots of fun. Very happy for both Barrett and Reddish getting big games. A lot of positives, not the least of which being how hard the team fought. Really nice win.

Troublemaker
01-13-2019, 09:53 AM
I don't get the angst about a two day turnaround. This is the same environment at the NCAA Tournament and is what K has worked to prepare the team for all year. I find it a good thing.

gofurman has an excellent explanation in the Syracuse pregame thread. Usually it's not a big deal, but this one is.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-13-2019, 09:56 AM
Perhaps my third-favorite thing about that game-winner (after it going in and after it being made by the guy who needed it most) was Nate James’ reaction. Everyone else goes nuts, including Coach K. But not Nate. He just stands up slowly and starts clapping. One cool customer.

Cool indeed, but I don't think "cool" is what was called for here. My favorite thing about it was Zion's reaction - because of what that said about Zion, what it said about how Zion views Cam, what it said about how important this was for Cam, and what it said about the overall chemistry on this team.

buddy
01-13-2019, 10:52 AM
AOC didn't get much PT tonight but when he was out there he looked overmatched. He has the athleticism and quickness but just made too many mistakes. Fla St is an athletic and tough team so it is no big deal, but AOC needs to play better going forward.

AOC is not strong enough to play against FSU. I expect his playing time to diminish as the season progresses.

ncexnyc
01-13-2019, 11:06 AM
This was the first game of the season where I was actually yelling at the TV. Lob City was really getting on my nerves and I definitely uttered several choices words during the early portion of the 2nd half.

There's been quite a bit of talk about Cam's final shot, but lost in his offensive outburst yesterday was that fantastic play where he soared high for a blocked shot and then when the ball came down ripped it away from the FSU player. He made a nice pass to Tre who got the ball ahead to another player for an easy basket.

kmspeaks
01-13-2019, 11:46 AM
Cool indeed, but I don't think "cool" is what was called for here. My favorite thing about it was Zion's reaction - because of what that said about Zion, what it said about how Zion views Cam, what it said about how important this was for Cam, and what it said about the overall chemistry on this team.

Jason Williams and Shane Battier would disagree. (https://youtu.be/vUkiY5E6lPY?t=120)

If you don't want to click it's a video of Jay talking about the Gone in 60 Seconds game and how once it became apparent they would win Battier told everybody we're not going to celebrate, just shake their hands and walk off the court. He said it was the best part about that game because it sent that message that they expected to come back and win that game because they knew they were that good.

That's not to say the team shouldn't have celebrated the way they did, every person and every team is different, but as we all know Nate James is a bad*** so I'm going to let him be.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-13-2019, 11:54 AM
Jason Williams and Shane Battier would disagree. (https://youtu.be/vUkiY5E6lPY?t=120)

If you don't want to click it's a video of Jay talking about the Gone in 60 Seconds game and how once it became apparent they would win Battier told everybody we're not going to celebrate, just shake their hands and walk off the court. He said it was the best part about that game because it sent that message that they expected to come back and win that game because they knew they were that good.

That's not to say the team shouldn't have celebrated the way they did, every person and every team is different, but as we all know Nate James is a bad*** so I'm going to let him be.

In some ways, a valid analogy to yesterday, but in several KEY ways, totally totally different. Here are just a couple:
A: while the 54 second comeback was astonishing it did not involve a last second shot. HUGE difference.
B: the 2001 game involved a very experienced team who had faced many tough roadies.....yesterday's game was totally different...very young team in their first ever hostile road environment.
C: There was no dynamic in the 2001 game that in any way, shape or form was like the Zion being held out dynamic.

apples and oranges.....

szstark
01-13-2019, 12:31 PM
Without a serious, threatening injury they don't stop when it's on the defense - by rule. As soon as the ball changes hands, they stop play.

I suspect it's about faked injuries. (c.f., Deano)

-jk

I guess I don’t understand the explanation - Zion was on the floor in obvious pain. How did the refs know that it wasn’t a serious and/or threatening injury at that point? FSU wasn’t running a fast break so their play would not have been disrupted and play was stopped later in the game for an FSU player. What am I missing?

Rich
01-13-2019, 12:37 PM
I don't get the angst about a two day turnaround. This is the same environment at the NCAA Tournament and is what K has worked to prepare the team for all year. I find it a good thing.


gofurman has an excellent explanation in the Syracuse pregame thread. Usually it's not a big deal, but this one is.

I haven't read gofurman's explanation so apologies if I'm merely restating what s/he says, but in the NCAA Tourney both teams have a two day turnaround. IMHO, that's the difference. It's really an unfair advantage when only one team has it plus they have to travel.

I guess it evens out over the course of the season if every team faces a Sat-Mon turnaround (with travel), but I haven't examined the schedule to know if that's the case (although I doubt it is since this seems to be dictated by TV coverage and only some teams are TV draws).

Edited: I see that the Orange has a two day turnaround too so I stand corrected

uh_no
01-13-2019, 12:39 PM
I guess I don’t understand the explanation - Zion was on the floor in obvious pain. How did the refs know that it wasn’t a serious and/or threatening injury at that point? FSU wasn’t running a fast break so their play would not have been disrupted and play was stopped later in the game for an FSU player. What am I missing?

The fix here is easy, though. If a player is down and can't make it back on D, play is stopped. The offense gets 2 FTs, and that's that. No team is going to fake an injury so the other team can get to the line, and it's no more penal than playing a possession down a man...so players in serious danger aren't going to try to get up simply to avoid it.

You protect player safety and the integrity of the game. It makes just enough sense that the NCAA will never see it happen.

jv001
01-13-2019, 12:50 PM
AOC didn't get much PT tonight but when he was out there he looked overmatched. He has the athleticism and quickness but just made too many mistakes. Fla St is an athletic and tough team so it is no big deal, but AOC needs to play better going forward.

Coach K really got after him when the team came to the sideline at one point in the game. He had just made a bullet pass to a team mate from about 2 feet. The pass looked like it was aimed at the other player's knees. Alex over thinks things and it get's him into trouble. Outside of spot up 3s, he brings little to the table at this point in the season. Too bad because he seems to have the talent to be a good player. GoDuke!

-jk
01-13-2019, 01:04 PM
I guess I don’t understand the explanation - Zion was on the floor in obvious pain. How did the refs know that it wasn’t a serious and/or threatening injury at that point? FSU wasn’t running a fast break so their play would not have been disrupted and play was stopped later in the game for an FSU player. What am I missing?

So long as they're advancing the ball and the player is not in danger (pain doesn't really count), they get to finish their play. The ref decides whether an injury is sufficiently bad to stop play immediately (such as a leg bone sticking out). Almost always if the injured defender is in the back court, they'll let the offense finish the 5 on 4 play. From this year's rule book...


Rule 5, section 11. The game clock and shot clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official:

Art. 6. Suspends play immediately when necessary to protect an injured player

In determining whether to stop play under this Article 6 or Article 7 below, when either an offensive or defensive player appears to be injured, officials should always give priority to protecting the injured player by stopping the game immediately when the health or safety of the player appears to be at issue

Art. 7. Suspends play after the ball is dead or controlled by the injured player’s team or when the opponents complete a play after an opposing player is injured
a. A play shall be completed when a team withholds the ball from play by ceasing to attempt to score or advance the ball to a scoring position

chrishoke
01-13-2019, 01:40 PM
Some great pictures from yesterday's game.
http://www.goduke.com/PhotoAlbum.dbml?PALBID=2204994&DB_OEM_ID=4200

devilsince1977
01-13-2019, 01:52 PM
The fix here is easy, though. If a player is down and can't make it back on D, play is stopped. The offense gets 2 FTs, and that's that. No team is going to fake an injury so the other team can get to the line, and it's no more penal than playing a possession down a man...so players in serious danger aren't going to try to get up simply to avoid it.

You protect player safety and the integrity of the game. It makes just enough sense that the NCAA will never see it happen.


Nice idea, but in this instance there was a better solution. Call the DARN foul and the the clock would have stopped.

NashvilleDevil
01-13-2019, 01:54 PM
What a tremendous game for the young fellas. RJ was a stud making several big shots when FSU had a chance to put Duke away. And Cam, just a great game and moment for him, I think it will give him confidence going forward.

Speaking of Cam, I spent a portion of my morning reading the ridiculous should Jack White start instead of Cam thread. I knew a thread like that was coming since Cam has struggled some offensively and threads like that and any of the post-game threads after Duke loses are reasons I have limited my time on the boards. What I liked about the thread was 98% of the posters were in the Cam should continue to start column (the correct column by the way) and only two, DukeTrinity11 (the OP) and Steven43, wwanted to bench Cam. I have also noticed that DukeTrinity and Steven have been noticeably absent in the post-FSU game thread, wonder why that is?

Since Duke has been recruiting OAD players some posters expect immediate results from 18/19 years olds based on their recruiting rankings. As Coach K loves to say, each player runs their own race. That means players like Tre, RJ, and Zion come in and have an immediate impact or Jack takes a couple of years to get used to the college game and all those practices guarding Grayson, Frank, Tatum, Giles, Carter, Bagley, Duval, RJ, Zion, Cam allow him to evolve to the player he has been this year. Then there are players like Cam, a great player that has NBA scouts drooling but he has never been a 3rd option on any team he has played on. It has taken him a bit to find his footing with this team. But Cam has not let his offensive woes hurt his overall play like Tatum and Ingram did. Cam has to run his race and yesterday will probably be big step forward for him.


I know we are all fans of Duke and we want to see them succeed but at some point expectations need to be put in check when you are dealing with 18/19 year olds that are at Duke for such a short amount of time. While I enjoyed watching the individual talents of the last couple of years I do not think their chemistry was that great. I think this team is special, they have chemistry that is reminiscent of the championship teams and I think that is what carries them to the Final Four. Enjoy the ride DBR, I think this one ends in Minneapolis.

Eternal Outlaw
01-13-2019, 02:03 PM
Jason Williams and Shane Battier would disagree. (https://youtu.be/vUkiY5E6lPY?t=120)

If you don't want to click it's a video of Jay talking about the Gone in 60 Seconds game and how once it became apparent they would win Battier told everybody we're not going to celebrate, just shake their hands and walk off the court. He said it was the best part about that game because it sent that message that they expected to come back and win that game because they knew they were that good.

That's not to say the team shouldn't have celebrated the way they did, every person and every team is different, but as we all know Nate James is a bad*** so I'm going to let him be.

Always thought that was a weird thing for him to say considering if you watch Jay, he tosses the ball way up in the air, raises both arms, and jumps into the arms of a teammate. Not exactly the calm reaction he talks about.

NSDukeFan
01-13-2019, 02:16 PM
Now that the should Jack start over Cam thread has become obsolete, is it time to start the “Alex should never play because he turned it over and didn’t score against FSU” thread?

DU82
01-13-2019, 02:25 PM
I haven't read gofurman's explanation so apologies if I'm merely restating what s/he says, but in the NCAA Tourney both teams have a two day turnaround. IMHO, that's the difference. It's really an unfair advantage when only one team has it plus they have to travel.

I guess it evens out over the course of the season if every team faces a Sat-Mon turnaround (with travel), but I haven't examined the schedule to know if that's the case (although I doubt it is since this seems to be dictated by TV coverage and only some teams are TV draws).

Edited: I see that the Orange has a two day turnaround too so I stand corrected

It is my understanding that the ACC “rule” for Saturday-Monday duos is that both teams will play both days, and (at least) one game will be at home. This way, the prep time is fairly even.

I believe Thursday night football games are handled similarly in terms of prep time. No team will play Sat-Thurs against a team that has a bye on the previous Saturday.

3rd Dukie
01-13-2019, 02:32 PM
What a tremendous game for the young fellas. RJ was a stud making several big shots when FSU had a chance to put Duke away. And Cam, just a great game and moment for him, I think it will give him confidence going forward.

Speaking of Cam, I spent a portion of my morning reading the ridiculous should Jack White start instead of Cam thread. I knew a thread like that was coming since Cam has struggled some offensively and threads like that and any of the post-game threads after Duke loses are reasons I have limited my time on the boards. What I liked about the thread was 98% of the posters were in the Cam should continue to start column (the correct column by the way) and only two, DukeTrinity11 (the OP) and Steven43, wwanted to bench Cam. I have also noticed that DukeTrinity and Steven have been noticeably absent in the post-FSU game thread, wonder why that is?

Since Duke has been recruiting OAD players some posters expect immediate results from 18/19 years olds based on their recruiting rankings. As Coach K loves to say, each player runs their own race. That means players like Tre, RJ, and Zion come in and have an immediate impact or Jack takes a couple of years to get used to the college game and all those practices guarding Grayson, Frank, Tatum, Giles, Carter, Bagley, Duval, RJ, Zion, Cam allow him to evolve to the player he has been this year. Then there are players like Cam, a great player that has NBA scouts drooling but he has never been a 3rd option on any team he has played on. It has taken him a bit to find his footing with this team. But Cam has not let his offensive woes hurt his overall play like Tatum and Ingram did. Cam has to run his race and yesterday will probably be big step forward for him.


I know we are all fans of Duke and we want to see them succeed but at some point expectations need to be put in check when you are dealing with 18/19 year olds that are at Duke for such a short amount of time. While I enjoyed watching the individual talents of the last couple of years I do not think their chemistry was that great. I think this team is special, they have chemistry that is reminiscent of the championship teams and I think that is what carries them to the Final Four. Enjoy the ride DBR, I think this one ends in Minneapolis.

Well stated indeed!

Indoor66
01-13-2019, 03:31 PM
gofurman has an excellent explanation in the Syracuse pregame thread. Usually it's not a big deal, but this one is.

Respect them all and fear none.

Chard
01-13-2019, 03:42 PM
Coach K really got after him when the team came to the sideline at one point in the game. He had just made a bullet pass to a team mate from about 2 feet. The pass looked like it was aimed at the other player's knees. Alex over thinks things and it get's him into trouble. Outside of spot up 3s, he brings little to the table at this point in the season. Too bad because he seems to have the talent to be a good player. GoDuke!

I thought Coach said something along the lines of "You should have shot it."

arnie
01-13-2019, 03:55 PM
Coach K really got after him when the team came to the sideline at one point in the game. He had just made a bullet pass to a team mate from about 2 feet. The pass looked like it was aimed at the other player's knees. Alex over thinks things and it get's him into trouble. Outside of spot up 3s, he brings little to the table at this point in the season. Too bad because he seems to have the talent to be a good player. GoDuke!

I recall AOC threw the pass to Javin near his knees. Always important to know who you’re throwing to what can happen next. Clearly AOC made a poor pass with no clear upside.

Think he needs another year of development before he makes significant contributions.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-13-2019, 04:06 PM
I recall AOC threw the pass to Javin near his knees. Always important to know who you’re throwing to what can happen next. Clearly AOC made a poor pass with no clear upside. .

AGREED...."who" is important when trying a difficult pass. Javin is not the guy to try that with. Zion probably catches and scores. Jack probably at least catches it. Not much chance with Javin or Marques in that situation.

UrinalCake
01-13-2019, 05:20 PM
Now that the should Jack start over Cam thread has become obsolete, is it time to start the “Alex should never play because he turned it over and didn’t score against FSU” thread?

I’m still waiting for the “Can Cam and Zion Coexist?” Thread

lotusland
01-13-2019, 06:19 PM
I recall AOC threw the pass to Javin near his knees. Always important to know who you’re throwing to what can happen next. Clearly AOC made a poor pass with no clear upside.

Think he needs another year of development before he makes significant contributions.

I’d be the first one to want more PT for Alex if he was playing well. Before knee-capping Jav instead of shooting a wide open shot, he got moved out of defensive position by minimal contact on a drive. Then he capped off the night by fouling a 3-point shooter on a play where he arrived too late to affect the shot. He may be overthinking or pressing but he’s not making good decisions on offense or defense. I hope he gets his mojo back soon.

Nugget
01-13-2019, 06:24 PM
I thought Coach said something along the lines of "You should have shot it."

That's what it looked like to me also.

szstark
01-13-2019, 07:21 PM
So long as they're advancing the ball and the player is not in danger (pain doesn't really count), they get to finish their play. The ref decides whether an injury is sufficiently bad to stop play immediately (such as a leg bone sticking out). Almost always if the injured defender is in the back court, they'll let the offense finish the 5 on 4 play. From this year's rule book...

Didn’t this exact situation occur later in the game when two FSU players collided with one going down. Duke got the ball and headed up court when the refs stopped the game to check on the injured player. Shouldn’t Duke have been allowed to complete the 5 on 3 before time was called? Not arguing here, just asking.

TruBlu
01-13-2019, 07:42 PM
Didn’t this exact situation occur later in the game when two FSU players collided with one going down. Duke got the ball and headed up court when the refs stopped the game to check on the injured player. Shouldn’t Duke have been allowed to complete the 5 on 3 before time was called? Not arguing here, just asking.

I think that in the sequence you are referencing, play wasn’t stopped due to the collision, but rather because Duke unfortunately called a time out. At least that’s what the announcers mentioned in passing, while discussing something totally irrelevant to the game.

DBGoins
01-14-2019, 10:13 AM
That's what it looked like to me also.

And he should have shot it....I'm sure it is tough coming off the bench and trying to get in the flow of the game. He is still young and will continue to improve as a player.

For the overall game, it was great to see the young guys handle a true road atmosphere. Its going to be a fight every night in the ACC this year, every win is big.

Stay healthy and keep improving....


March is going to be fun!

jv001
01-14-2019, 10:27 AM
And he should have shot it...I'm sure it is tough coming off the bench and trying to get in the flow of the game. He is still young and will continue to improve as a player.

For the overall game, it was great to see the young guys handle a true road atmosphere. Its going to be a fight every night in the ACC this year, every win is big.

Stay healthy and keep improving...


March is going to be fun!

If I was a betting man, I would say that Coach K was telling Alex he should have shot the ball instead of passing it. I think that goes back to what I said before. Alex is thinking too much. I want to see him play using his natural abilities and basketball instincts. However that might not come as fast as fans would like but he's getting minutes. Maybe not as many as some fans would like but the coaches know more about this than we do. GoDuke!

Jeffrey
01-14-2019, 10:49 AM
I think that goes back to what I said before. Alex is thinking too much. I want to see him play using his natural abilities and basketball instincts. However that might not come as fast as fans would like but he's getting minutes. Maybe not as many as some fans would like but the coaches know more about this than we do. GoDuke!

What a difference a week makes. It's really nice this conversation is now about our 7th or 8th best player instead of our 3rd or 4th best.

kAzE
01-14-2019, 12:57 PM
What a difference a week makes. It's really nice this conversation is now about our 7th or 8th best player instead of our 3rd or 4th best.

Yep, I think this is obviously an improvement. Alex is a key cog as a backup wing, but if he struggles, I don't think it will hurt the team too much unless there is massive foul trouble or an unfortunate injury. For this season, he's most likely out of the rotation (or playing fewer than 5 minutes) in postseason win-or-go-home games. Coach K typically shaves the rotation down to 6.5 guys (6 players playing starter's minutes, and one guy playing between 10-15 minutes) when the games are critical. Alex is basically entrenched as the 8th man.

budwom
01-14-2019, 01:17 PM
Respect them all and fear none.

My wife ignores sports in general, but even she has memorized Sports Cliche' Number One, "we respect their ballclub but we don't fear their ballclub."