What if these OAD's had stayed?

[UrinalCake]

Kinda bummed to hear how Okafor, Jabari and Rivers have basically become outcasts in the NBA, and I was thinking about how their NBA careers might have been different if they had stayed in school for another year. Obviously they were talented enough to go and play at the next level, but they lacked some of the off the court maturity and that's part of what you gain in college. I don't really want to start a debate about how awesome Duke's teams would have been, or the moral outrage of the OAD rule. I was just curious what others think about how these guys might have turned out with another year under Coach K.

Jabari had a lot of injuries so maybe it's not fair to judge him. But maybe with another year of maturity he would have been smart enough to not proclaim to the national media that he's not paid to play defense, immediately after signing a big contract. He's totally out of the rotation now and there's almost zero chance the team picks up his second year. Okafor would still play an outdated style of basketball that isn't valued, but maybe he would have avoided the off the court bar fight that he got into and had more time to develop his perimeter game and improve his physical conditioning. And Austin has a reputation as being a ball hog and a poor teammate, to the extent that nobody even wants him. Playing for his father didn't help things. Most of all, none of these guys play a lick of defense.

Steve Kerr was quoted several years ago as saying that everyone could benefit from a year of college. He speculated that if Kobe had gone to Duke for a year and been coached by K, maybe he would have learned to be a better teammate and gotten along with Shaq, and that dynasty could have stayed together and won several more rings. Kerr said that if LeBron had gone to college then maybe The Decision never happens because he would have gained more social awareness. It doesn't seem like a big deal now but at the time it was a major hit to his PR.

I obviously don't blame any of these guys for taking the money when they could. And there are plenty of counterexamples of guys who stay in college too long. But I'm curious what others think.

[Faison1]

Hey UrinalCake!! Did you ever respond to the thread asking for the meaning of your name? Lot's of speculation over there. I will bump it back to the top so you don't have to search long.

BTW, totally agree with this thread. I wish all of these guys would stay longer in school.

[niveklaen]

Okafor and Parker were such gods at the college level that I dont think they would have gained much by staying another year. I just dont see them deciding that defense matters in that 2nd year and that is the biggest shortcoming each has in the NBA.

[dukelifer]

Kinda bummed to hear how Okafor, Jabari and Rivers have basically become outcasts in the NBA, and I was thinking about how their NBA careers might have been different if they had stayed in school for another year. Obviously they were talented enough to go and play at the next level, but they lacked some of the off the court maturity and that's part of what you gain in college. I don't really want to start a debate about how awesome Duke's teams would have been, or the moral outrage of the OAD rule. I was just curious what others think about how these guys might have turned out with another year under Coach K.

Jabari had a lot of injuries so maybe it's not fair to judge him. But maybe with another year of maturity he would have been smart enough to not proclaim to the national media that he's not paid to play defense, immediately after signing a big contract. He's totally out of the rotation now and there's almost zero chance the team picks up his second year. Okafor would still play an outdated style of basketball that isn't valued, but maybe he would have avoided the off the court bar fight that he got into and had more time to develop his perimeter game and improve his physical conditioning. And Austin has a reputation as being a ball hog and a poor teammate, to the extent that nobody even wants him. Playing for his father didn't help things. Most of all, none of these guys play a lick of defense.

Steve Kerr was quoted several years ago as saying that everyone could benefit from a year of college. He speculated that if Kobe had gone to Duke for a year and been coached by K, maybe he would have learned to be a better teammate and gotten along with Shaq, and that dynasty could have stayed together and won several more rings. Kerr said that if LeBron had gone to college then maybe The Decision never happens because he would have gained more social awareness. It doesn't seem like a big deal now but at the time it was a major hit to his PR.

I obviously don't blame any of these guys for taking the money when they could. And there are plenty of counterexamples of guys who stay in college too long. But I'm curious what others think.
Outcasts seems a bit strong. They certainly have not have the careers they envisioned but Rivers and Parker have made money and will likely stick around for several more years. Okafor started out well but his defensive limitations and limited shooting range were going to be issues regardless. The NBA is a different game. There are only a few true stars.

[Matches]

Rivers isn't an outcast. He's an average to above-average rotation player/ marginal starter, now in his eighth season. He has struggled some this year but had his best season as a pro last year and has improved pretty steadily since he got to the NBA. If anything he is a success story.

Okafor I think could have been exposed some by another year of college bball, if he was on a team without a Tyus Jones-level point guard (i.e. the 2016 Duke team). The Okafor Theory was making the rounds even during his freshman year. He's a talented guy who has had the misfortune of coming along at a time when the NBA is moving away from the things he is good at doing.

Jabari... I mean, the guy's 23, can't crack the rotation of a bad team and makes really questionable public comments about how he's not going to play defense. Who knows if another year at Duke would have made him a more mature pro? I think he would have been a questionable fit on the 2015 team. Maybe it would have been better for his long-term maturity and development; no way to know.

[BD80]

Kyrie might have learned that the earth isn't flat ...

[Furniture]

Looks like Rivers is doing ok at Houston.

https://www.thedreamshake.com/2018/12/27/18157076/austin-rivers-was-the-prefect-christmas-gift-to-the-houston-rockets

Solid game last night too, looking very comfortable and a real team player.

33 mins. +14 with 10 points and 3 assists.

[UrinalCake]

Okafor and Parker were such gods at the college level that I dont think they would have gained much by staying another year. I just dont see them deciding that defense matters in that 2nd year and that is the biggest shortcoming each has in the NBA.

Probably true. Josh McRoberts is probably the best example I can think of in terms of a guy benefiting by staying another year. A lot of people think he should have left after his freshman year and been a higher draft pick, but he's remained in the league a long time and I have to think that some of it is due to what he learned during the extra year of college. I've heard comments by other multi-year players (not just Duke guys, but from all over) who had long NBA careers and said that if they had done a money grab after one season then they wouldn't have lasted in the league because they wouldn't have learned as much and set themselves up for long-term success. Mason Plumlee might be another example, although he probably would have been fine regardless.

[Furniture]

Would Jabari and Okafor have learned about playing defense staying in college another year?

[MChambers]

Most of all, none of these guys play a lick of defense.
Actually, Rivers was playing good defense with the Wizards.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/12/10/austin-rivers-was-supposed-be-wizards-bench-scorer-instead-hes-their-top-defender/?utm_term=.0c77d643beb5

I was surprised to read this, but there it is.

[elvis14]

Probably true. Josh McRoberts is probably the best example I can think of in terms of a guy benefiting by staying another year. A lot of people think he should have left after his freshman year and been a higher draft pick, but he's remained in the league a long time and I have to think that some of it is due to what he learned during the extra year of college. I've heard comments by other multi-year players (not just Duke guys, but from all over) who had long NBA careers and said that if they had done a money grab after one season then they wouldn't have lasted in the league because they wouldn't have learned as much and set themselves up for long-term success. Mason Plumlee might be another example, although he probably would have been fine regardless.

What I remember is that Josh quietly had off season back surgery and that had a lot to do with him staying another year. I think that Jah and Jabari would have been better off if they had stayed at Duke another year, and yes, I think that having Coach K work on their defense another year would have been useful. With Austin, I think that he would have benefitted from another year so that he could have played on a more balance Duke team where he wasn't asked to have the ball and score on his own so much.

[SupaDave]

One more year at Duke... Hmmm...

Okafor - injuries. Really zapped him of his career. He was even hurt at Duke.
Parker - injuries. I mean - how many ACLs, MCLs, PCLs, or whatever can one tear?
Austin - possibly a National player of the year.

The easy - Okafor is more in the form of Shelden Williams but was a bit more advanced offensively coming in (but not hardly the shot blocker that Williams was). The traditional center is a thing of the past.

The sad - Parker's issues are his knees. I can't imagine the confidence and courage needed to come back from those injuries. And in his case, would have certainly happened in year two at Duke. And if he stayed at Duke, his defense wasn't going to get much better: man, half-court, full-court, zone, bizzy bone - wouldn't have mattered. His heart isn't in it.

Austin - now this gets a little more interesting. Austin would have led a team with two point guards in Cook and Curry, two seniors in Mason Plumlee and Ryan Kelly, a hustler in Hairston, a shooter in Dawkins, and now when you look at it - a team STACKED with future pros (even Tyler Thornton, Hairston and Rasheed still play overseas).

Would have been Austin's team too b/c he would have been our primary driver (kinda like RJ is now) but with Mason and Kelly on the boards he would have had serious help. Austin may have definitely gotten us to a Final Four in that second year (as would a healthy Ryan and Seth have as well).

[Matches]

Actually, Rivers was playing good defense with the Wizards.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/12/10/austin-rivers-was-supposed-be-wizards-bench-scorer-instead-hes-their-top-defender/?utm_term=.0c77d643beb5

I was surprised to read this, but there it is.

Yea I think Rivers' reputation for being a poor defender is a carryover from his early days in the league (when he was both a bad offensive AND defensive player), and his one year of college (where he at least started out as a poor defender).

Rivers is like JJ Redick in that both have worked their tails off to improve their handles and especially their defense during their NBA careers.

[PackMan97]

Given the results all of UNC's recent burger boys... I'm thinking about year or three doesn't help much... Then again it could be that hall of fame coaching.

[knicknut]

Moreso than another year in college, I think Okafor would have benefitted most from being drafted by a team with veteran leadership. He really seemed to suffer from being a player without a role model. Not that he was going over KAT, but if he had been on the Timberwolves, Kevin Garnett, Andre Miller, and Tayshaun Prince's guidance (especially Garnett) could have helped develop a focused Okafor who got in shape, avoided injuries, and maybe transformed his game enough to be relevant in today's NBA.

Parker was 95% injuries, and Rivers has had a fine career relative to expectations. Of the three, I think Rivers would have benefitted most from another year under K.