Lance’s take on Zion and the team

[duke74]

Today’s NY Post.

https://nypost.com/2018/12/22/lance-thomas-zion-williamson-will-be-even-better-in-nba/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=pasteboard_app

[Indoor66]

Today’s NY Post.

https://nypost.com/2018/12/22/lance-thomas-zion-williamson-will-be-even-better-in-nba/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=pasteboard_app

Nice article. Here is a clickable link. (https://nypost.com/2018/12/22/lance-thomas-zion-williamson-will-be-even-better-in-nba/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=pasteboard_app)

[duke74]

Nice article. Here is a clickable link. (https://nypost.com/2018/12/22/lance-thomas-zion-williamson-will-be-even-better-in-nba/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=pasteboard_app)

Sorry..clicked through for me....

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Pretty astute observations from Lance.......but I would not have recognized him from that photo....for some reason....

[Indoor66]

Sorry..clicked through for me...

Yes. It became clickable for me after I posted my addition.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Pretty astute observations from Lance....but I would not have recognized him from that photo...for some reason...

They showed him briefly during the broadcast without comment. I admittedly rewound and did the double-take. Without the context of MSG and a Duke game, I am sure I would not have recognized him.

[devildeac]

Pretty astute observations from Lance...but I would not have recognized him from that photo...for some reason...

This one's pretty astute, too:

"A lot of the offensive fouls and calls they’re calling is literally because kids are just bouncing off of him."

(or flopping :rolleyes::mad:)

[HereBeforeCoachK]

This one's pretty astute, too:

"A lot of the offensive fouls and calls they’re calling is literally because kids are just bouncing off of him."

(or flopping :rolleyes::mad:)

Yeah, that was his most astute observation IMO

[DavidBenAkiva]

Duke won the NCAA Tournament with "Kyle Singler and a couple of Plumlees"

That was a pretty funny recap of the roster. Mason Plumlee is having the best NBA career from that particular roster, followed by Miles and then Lance Thomas. What an amazing turn of events. I would have guessed Singler would be the one to do the best in the NBA, but he was unable to shoot well enough to carve out a role as a rotation player.

And then, of course, Thomas has become that 3-and-D player that I expected Singler was going to be. For his career, Thomas has made 144 3-pointers and is a career 39.9%. For his college career, he took exactly 0 3-point attempts and only took 1 in his first 3 seasons in the NBA. He wasn't even a good free throw shooter until his senior year, when he started making 74.3% of his attempts from the line. He was a great multi-positional defender that was pretty killer in the press and halfcourt. That he has carved out a role as a shooter in the NBA is one of the most surprising developments I can recall. There was just zero indication in his time at Duke or shortly thereafter that he would do this. I am very happy for him that he's been able to make it in the league. He gives me hope that Amile Jefferson, another Philly-area kid with exceptional personality, work ethic, and charisma, will be able to break through soon.

I also thought his observation about the 3-second rule was spot-on. The same thing applies to R.J. In the game against Texas Tech, the Red Raiders were forcing R.J. baseline when he prefers to go to the lane. There were so few opportunities when R.J. was able to get into the paint after starting on the wing. He was finally able to do that a little in the halfcourt and transition late in the game when he started to score the ball. In the NBA, he's going to have so much room to operate. I agree that creating for his teammates is the next step. But Duke isn't a jump-shooting team and there were not a lot of open looks in that particular game.

[jv001]

Duke won the NCAA Tournament with "Kyle Singler and a couple of Plumlees"

That was a pretty funny recap of the roster. Mason Plumlee is having the best NBA career from that particular roster, followed by Miles and then Lance Thomas. What an amazing turn of events. I would have guessed Singler would be the one to do the best in the NBA, but he was unable to shoot well enough to carve out a role as a rotation player.

And then, of course, Thomas has become that 3-and-D player that I expected Singler was going to be. For his career, Thomas has made 144 3-pointers and is a career 39.9%. For his college career, he took exactly 0 3-point attempts and only took 1 in his first 3 seasons in the NBA. He wasn't even a good free throw shooter until his senior year, when he started making 74.3% of his attempts from the line. He was a great multi-positional defender that was pretty killer in the press and halfcourt. That he has carved out a role as a shooter in the NBA is one of the most surprising developments I can recall. There was just zero indication in his time at Duke or shortly thereafter that he would do this. I am very happy for him that he's been able to make it in the league. He gives me hope that Amile Jefferson, another Philly-area kid with exceptional personality, work ethic, and charisma, will be able to break through soon.

I also thought his observation about the 3-second rule was spot-on. The same thing applies to R.J. In the game against Texas Tech, the Red Raiders were forcing R.J. baseline when he prefers to go to the lane. There were so few opportunities when R.J. was able to get into the paint after starting on the wing. He was finally able to do that a little in the halfcourt and transition late in the game when he started to score the ball. In the NBA, he's going to have so much room to operate. I agree that creating for his teammates is the next step. But Duke isn't a jump-shooting team and there were not a lot of open looks in that particular game.

Lance was the only Duke player I can remember yelling not to shoot for 3 years and then in his senior year yelling Lance take the shot. GoDuke!

[UrinalCake]

Thomas has become that 3-and-D player that I expected Singler was going to be.

Thomas has to be the biggest surprise ever for me in terms of guys whose NBA careers exceeded expectations. If you'd asked me in 2010 I would have never predicted that he'd have the kind of career that he's made. And I would have been equally convinced that Singler WOULD have a long NBA career. The guy was a beast, tough enough to defend opposing centers as a freshmen, yet skilled enough to play the 3 and sometimes the 2 as a junior. He's still among the top 10 in Duke career stats in just about every category. Contrasting the college and NBA careers of both Thomas and Singler is a fascinating exercise.

As far as Lance's comments, it was an interesting take that Zion would do better in the pros when his defenders are bigger and he's not always getting called for charges when they get bowled over. Obviously this one particular game could skew your viewpoint. In other games his size has been a massive advantage for him, and I'd have to think that bigger and longer defenders at the next level would pose a different challenge. I guess we'll see!

[niveklaen]

Thomas has to be the biggest surprise ever for me in terms of guys whose NBA careers exceeded expectations. If you'd asked me in 2010 I would have never predicted that he'd have the kind of career that he's made. And I would have been equally convinced that Singler WOULD have a long NBA career. The guy was a beast, tough enough to defend opposing centers as a freshmen, yet skilled enough to play the 3 and sometimes the 2 as a junior. He's still among the top 10 in Duke career stats in just about every category. Contrasting the college and NBA careers of both Thomas and Singler is a fascinating exercise.

As far as Lance's comments, it was an interesting take that Zion would do better in the pros when his defenders are bigger and he's not always getting called for charges when they get bowled over. Obviously this one particular game could skew your viewpoint. In other games his size has been a massive advantage for him, and I'd have to think that bigger and longer defenders at the next level would pose a different challenge. I guess we'll see!

I would put Lance's career as second most surprising behind Boozer. I thought Boozer would be a servicable big and maybe a borderline starter who should have been drafted higher than mid-second round. I never would have predicted him to be a 20/10 guy for a decade. Much better NBA player than Ferry or Laettner or S. Williams or really any Duke big not named Brand - and given Brand's injury shortened career, Boozer may even have had a better career than him.

[subzero02]

Yes. It became clickable for me after I posted my addition.

It's good that the Christmas spirit is alive and well on the DBR message board...

[subzero02]

I would put Lance's career as second most surprising behind Boozer. I thought Boozer would be a servicable big and maybe a borderline starter who should have been drafted higher than mid-second round. I never would have predicted him to be a 20/10 guy for a decade. Much better NBA player than Ferry or Laettner or S. Williams or really any Duke big not named Brand - and given Brand's injury shortened career, Boozer may even have had a better career than him.

Boozer dropping down to 260 from his college weight of 280 really helped him to become a more explosive player and a more dominant rebounder.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I would put Lance's career as second most surprising behind Boozer. I thought Boozer would be a servicable big and maybe a borderline starter who should have been drafted higher than mid-second round. I never would have predicted him to be a 20/10 guy for a decade. Much better NBA player than Ferry or Laettner or S. Williams or really any Duke big not named Brand - and given Brand's injury shortened career, Boozer may even have had a better career than him.

I would concur with ALL of this...^^^ I had very low expectations for Lance in the NBA.....and I don't think anyone saw Booz's career coming.

[WillJ]

I would concur with ALL of this...^^^ I had very low expectations for Lance in the NBA....and I don't think anyone saw Booz's career coming.

I'm not right very often, but I thought at the time that Boozer was way too good to be a 2nd round draft choice. There just aren't that many guys that big who can finish around the rim with either hand and who have a good jumper. Lance? He fooled me completely.

[DukieInBrasil]

Duke won the NCAA Tournament with "Kyle Singler and a couple of Plumlees"

That was a pretty funny recap of the roster. Mason Plumlee is having the best NBA career from that particular roster, followed by Miles and then Lance Thomas. What an amazing turn of events. I would have guessed Singler would be the one to do the best in the NBA, but he was unable to shoot well enough to carve out a role as a rotation player.

And then, of course, Thomas has become that 3-and-D player that I expected Singler was going to be. For his career, Thomas has made 144 3-pointers and is a career 39.9%. For his college career, he took exactly 0 3-point attempts and only took 1 in his first 3 seasons in the NBA. He wasn't even a good free throw shooter until his senior year, when he started making 74.3% of his attempts from the line. He was a great multi-positional defender that was pretty killer in the press and halfcourt. That he has carved out a role as a shooter in the NBA is one of the most surprising developments I can recall. There was just zero indication in his time at Duke or shortly thereafter that he would do this. I am very happy for him that he's been able to make it in the league. He gives me hope that Amile Jefferson, another Philly-area kid with exceptional personality, work ethic, and charisma, will be able to break through soon.

I also thought his observation about the 3-second rule was spot-on. The same thing applies to R.J. In the game against Texas Tech, the Red Raiders were forcing R.J. baseline when he prefers to go to the lane. There were so few opportunities when R.J. was able to get into the paint after starting on the wing. He was finally able to do that a little in the halfcourt and transition late in the game when he started to score the ball. In the NBA, he's going to have so much room to operate. I agree that creating for his teammates is the next step. But Duke isn't a jump-shooting team and there were not a lot of open looks in that particular game.

although Singler's years in OKC were largely forgettable, when he was in Detroit he was a very solid player. Solid enough that his career counting stats still surpass LT's in pretty much every area. MP2 has passed Singler by during the last couple of years though.


Thomas has to be the biggest surprise ever for me in terms of guys whose NBA careers exceeded expectations. If you'd asked me in 2010 I would have never predicted that he'd have the kind of career that he's made. And I would have been equally convinced that Singler WOULD have a long NBA career. The guy was a beast, tough enough to defend opposing centers as a freshmen, yet skilled enough to play the 3 and sometimes the 2 as a junior. He's still among the top 10 in Duke career stats in just about every category. Contrasting the college and NBA careers of both Thomas and Singler is a fascinating exercise.

As far as Lance's comments, it was an interesting take that Zion would do better in the pros when his defenders are bigger and he's not always getting called for charges when they get bowled over. Obviously this one particular game could skew your viewpoint. In other games his size has been a massive advantage for him, and I'd have to think that bigger and longer defenders at the next level would pose a different challenge. I guess we'll see!

LT definitely surpassed expectations, except K's. When K said LT was gonna play in the NBA i figured he might be right, in a cup of coffee sort of way.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I'm not right very often, but I thought at the time that Boozer was way too good to be a 2nd round draft choice. There just aren't that many guys that big who can finish around the rim with either hand and who have a good jumper. Lance? He fooled me completely.

You were ahead of me on Carlos then.....to my eye, Booz continued to improve his footwork, and he developed a deadly fade away jumper under pressure that he could get over almost anyone in the league. A lot of his shots looked very difficult, but he shot them with confidence and made a ton of them.

[MChambers]

Thomas has to be the biggest surprise ever for me in terms of guys whose NBA careers exceeded expectations. If you'd asked me in 2010 I would have never predicted that he'd have the kind of career that he's made. And I would have been equally convinced that Singler WOULD have a long NBA career. The guy was a beast, tough enough to defend opposing centers as a freshmen, yet skilled enough to play the 3 and sometimes the 2 as a junior. He's still among the top 10 in Duke career stats in just about every category. Contrasting the college and NBA careers of both Thomas and Singler is a fascinating exercise.

Absolutely agree with all of this.

[cato]

You were ahead of me on Carlos then....to my eye, Booz continued to improve his footwork, and he developed a deadly fade away jumper under pressure that he could get over almost anyone in the league. A lot of his shots looked very difficult, but he shot them with confidence and made a ton of them.

Carlos played much heavier at Duke. I recall him being listed around 280. I always thought the bear tattoo appropriate.

He lost some weight and continued to improve in the NBA, but he was one of the best to ever play the 5 at Duke.

I was not surprised to see him succeed in the NBA too.

[OldPhiKap]

Carlos played much heavier at Duke. I recall him being listed around 280. I always thought the bear tattoo appropriate.

He lost some weight and continued to improve in the NBA, but he was one of the best to ever play the 5 at Duke.

I was not surprised to see him succeed in the NBA too.

And, he was #$&#$#& fouled.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I would concur with ALL of this...^^^ I had very low expectations for Lance in the NBA....and I don't think anyone saw Booz's career coming.

Boozer's Junior year stats are pretty similar to Elton's sophomore stats. Elton definitely felt like a more dominant force, but Boozer was a beast.

[moonpie23]

And, he was #$&#$#& fouled.

damnit....opk....i was having a good day..... :(

[devildeac]

And, he was #$&#$#& fouled.


damnit...opk...i was having a good day... :(

Calm down you two or brevity might chastise you for supposed "unresolved anger" or something like that.










(bruce benedict sucked as a catcher, too :p)

[OldPhiKap]

Calm down you two or brevity might chastise you for supposed "unresolved anger" or something like that.










(bruce benedict sucked as a catcher, too :p)

It’s Festivus. I’m airing my grievances.

[rsvman]

It’s Festivus. I’m airing my grievances.

I've got a bone to pick with you people!

[MChambers]

Boozer's Junior year stats are pretty similar to Elton's sophomore stats. Elton definitely felt like a more dominant force, but Boozer was a beast.

Elton was a much better defensive player. Better shot blocker and surprisingly quick feet. I was trying to think of what Duke great I would add to this team. Brand would fit in nicely, among a few others.

[Rich]

Elton was a much better defensive player. Better shot blocker and surprisingly quick feet. I was trying to think of what Duke great I would add to this team. Brand would fit in nicely, among a few others.

Well, you could've penciled in Marvin Bagley if he didn't reclassify. Tough to fathom this team with Bagley on it, but I wonder whether it ultimately would've been addition or subtraction by addition to this team. One too many cooks?

[DukieInBrasil]

Well, you could've penciled in Marvin Bagley if he didn't reclassify. Tough to fathom this team with Bagley on it, but I wonder whether it ultimately would've been addition or subtraction by addition to this team. One too many cooks?

I think last year's team probably would have found some better chemistry, and may have ultimately been a better team had MB3 waited to come to Duke until this year. He's a great player and very talented, but the frontcourt-backcourt dynamics on last year's team got messed up by having 2 of the best players being bigs. Now both could and did step out and hit 3s, so they were not one dimensional post players, but Grayson's best attribute got smothered by not having space to drive, as did Duval's. This made it that much more difficult for them to get great looks from 3.
If MB3 had waited til this year to come to Duke: Bolden probably wouldn't be playing hardly at all, nor would Javin (let alone Vrank), and i would guess that Reddish would come off the bench. Of course, who knows which of our current Fr. would have decided to go elsewhere had MB3 been on this roster, but none of them really play the same position as MB3 so maybe they all come anyway.
In response to your wondering, i think this team would be better with MB3 b/c a) Tre Jones is a better floor general than Trevon b) Bagley is better than Bolden+Javin+Vrank c) 3 of our Fr. stars have somewhat overlapping skillsets, whereas Bagley's skillset (on offense at least) is vastly superior than other big options. Now, playing Bagley instead of either Bolden or Javin would probably make us worse on defense, but MB3 was a fierce rebounder, decent shot-blocker (not as good as MB) and could actually do a decent job bringing the ball upcourt after a rebound (better than MB or JD). Imagine if all the rest of our Fr. class came this year in addition to Bagley, a starting lineup of all Fr. Jones-Barrett-Zion-Bagley-Reddish would be possible, but i think K would want some veteran leadership out there, so i think Javin or Jack would get the nod over Reddish.

[JNort]

Thomas has to be the biggest surprise ever for me in terms of guys whose NBA careers exceeded expectations. If you'd asked me in 2010 I would have never predicted that he'd have the kind of career that he's made. And I would have been equally convinced that Singler WOULD have a long NBA career. The guy was a beast, tough enough to defend opposing centers as a freshmen, yet skilled enough to play the 3 and sometimes the 2 as a junior. He's still among the top 10 in Duke career stats in just about every category. Contrasting the college and NBA careers of both Thomas and Singler is a fascinating exercise.

As far as Lance's comments, it was an interesting take that Zion would do better in the pros when his defenders are bigger and he's not always getting called for charges when they get bowled over. Obviously this one particular game could skew your viewpoint. In other games his size has been a massive advantage for him, and I'd have to think that bigger and longer defenders at the next level would pose a different challenge. I guess we'll see!

Yeah Lance caught me off guard multiple times. When he arrived at Duke I expected he would evolve more towards being a wing player but he quickly went towards a bogs role. His improvement his senior year was much better than anything I thought he could accomplish. Then to have stayed in the NBA this long and be a good shooter to boot? Amazing.

Singler though I never thought had much of a chance unless he could hit 3s at a high rate in the NBA. I got bashed on here for saying he wasn't athletic enough to overcome his weaker spots.

[rocketeli]

Singler's didn't surprise me. His problem is/was that he is not a very good shooter. Looking at Youtube videos or overall stats can hide this, because he was definitely a very streaky shooter so he had enough games, where due to the quality of the opposition or the phase of the moon or whatever, he would hit threes at a good clip, which made his overall average look respectable, but he was never reliable enough for the pros. Boozer didn't surprise me at all. Not only is he three feet wide through the hips and had vacuum cleaners for hands, he could step out and hit a very reliable fifteen foot set shot. Lance Thomas on the other hand I did not see coming. Perhaps the word reliable is again key here.

[NSDukeFan]

Singler's didn't surprise me. His problem is/was that he is not a very good shooter. Looking at Youtube videos or overall stats can hide this, because he was definitely a very streaky shooter so he had enough games, where due to the quality of the opposition or the phase of the moon or whatever, he would hit threes at a good clip, which made his overall average look respectable, but he was never reliable enough for the pros. Boozer didn't surprise me at all. Not only is he three feet wide through the hips and had vacuum cleaners for hands, he could step out and hit a very reliable fifteen foot set shot. Lance Thomas on the other hand I did not see coming. Perhaps the word reliable is again key here.

Singler surprised me because he was so good at everything, until that senior year shooting slump. But I was also biased as he is up there with Hill and Battier as my favorite all-time Dukies.

[moonpie23]

It’s Festivus. I’m airing my grievances.

you're harshing my mellow...