MBB: Duke vs. Yale (Sat. Dec. 8th, 5:30 pm ESPN) Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

[MChambers]

The Bulldogs come to Cameron with a 4-2 record and a #88 ranking in KenPom. Surprisingly, they play uptempo (#45 in KenPom).

[BandAlum83]

The Bulldogs come to Cameron with a 4-2 record and a #88 ranking in KenPom. Surprisingly, they play uptempo (#45 in KenPom).

Thanks, MC. I've only ever started one game thread, Gonzaga. I will forever be hesitant now.

This one is way overdue.

[Billy Dat]

"Basketball Primer for Yalies, from a Duke; It's a lot like squash"
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/19/sports/ncaabasketball/basketball-primer-for-yale-from-duke-its-a-lot-like-squash.html

(from when we played in the NCAAs in 2016)

[richardjackson199]

I'm seeing line at Duke -24.5

[MChambers]

Thanks, MC. I've only ever started one game thread, Gonzaga. I will forever be hesitant now.

This one is way overdue.

I figured everyone else here was working on papers and studying for finals, so I'd better do it.

[BandAlum83]

I figured everyone else here was working on papers and studying for finals, so I'd better do it.

Yeah, because the boards here are totally dominated by current students....

[DavidBenAkiva]

This should be a fun one as I currently live in New Haven, CT (for another 7 months). The pizza here is plentiful and surprisingly good. But the city is overshadowed by its neighbors, both medium in size and of much greater scale.

The Yale Bulldogs checks in on the season at 4-2 and appear to be the best team in the Ivy League. Tommy Amaker's Harvard Crimson have a few health issues to work out and appear poised to assert themselves in league play in a year or two. In the meantime, James Jones brings an experienced and spry group to Durham. Yale has an impressive (in name, at least) win against Miami just last weekend as well as a close overtime loss to Memphis. In the Miami game, junior forward Dewan Hernandez (formerly Huell) was held out as he undergoes scrutiny due to the ongoing FBI case. Without their standout forward, the Hurricanes have turned a season with hopes of competing for an NCAA Tournament bid into a disaster, losing 4 straight to northeastern teams Seton Hall, Rutgers, Yale, and Penn. The Penn game was not particularly close, either, with the Canes losing 75-89. Yuck. But back to the Yalies.

The squad is not particularly deep with just 7 players getting more than 16% of available minutes in the first part of their season. The team is fairly experienced with 3 seniors, 2 juniors, and 2 sophomores in the rotation. The headliner is 6'6" junior Miye Oni, a springy athlete that is shooting the ball really well. He's hitting 65.0% of his 2-pointers and making 38.7% of his 3's on 31 attempts so far this season. Sophomore guard Azar Swain is another bomber, hitting an impressive 48.6% of his 35 3-pointers. He has only attempted 6 shots inside the arc this season, so run him off the line. The painfully thin Jordan Bruner (a Brandon Ingram-esque 6'9" 194 lbs junior) is someone else to watch. He doesn't take many shots from deep, operating closer to the rim. But he can and does shoot from time to time. Rounding out the top four is 6'3" senior Alex Copeland. Copeland doesn't stand out much from a statistical standpoint, but he doesn't turn the ball over much. You might call him "steady." The team doesn't have a point guard per se as everyone will pass the ball freely. Oni gets the highest usage rate with Bruner being the most willing to set up his teammate. It's basically a point-guard-by-committee setup. That hasn't hurt them too much this year as the Bulldogs rank 5th nationally in effective FG% and in the top 20 in both 2P% and 3P%. They can really shoot the ball.

On defense, they don't steal the ball very much and there is almost no rim protection. They are just ok. They send their opponents to the line a lot. There are not a lot of things they do exceptionally well on that end of the floor. They have some players that can match up with Duke fairly well. Oni is really good. Like, he might be in the NBA in a couple of years. There are others, like Austin Williams and Blake Reynolds (such a Yale name), and Isaiah Kelly that should be able to check Cam or R.J. for a few minutes. I don't know how they are going to deal with Zion. And Tre is so darn pesky. My bet is that Oni starts the game trying to guard R.J.. We'll see if either of them get into early foul trouble. Losing Oni for any stretch of time might be doom for Yale.

At any rate, Let's Go Duke!

[budwom]

^you shouldn't be surprised by the pizza. New Haven has had a robust Italian-American population for more than a century, and CT ranks second in the country (behind Rhode Island) in % of Italian Americans.
I spent five arduous years in that vicinity, and the pizza and Italian food helped get me through it.

[robed deity]

^you shouldn't be surprised by the pizza. New Haven has had a robust Italian-American population for more than a century, and CT ranks second in the country (behind Rhode Island) in % of Italian Americans.
I spent five arduous years in that vicinity, and the pizza and Italian food helped get me through it.

Spent some time there myself. Big fan of BAR and Modern.

[OldPhiKap]

Yale is the best part of New Haven.

[Troublemaker]

You guys may remember, we beat them twice in the 2016 season when a 1-3-1 zone with Brandon Ingram up top spooked them to death. Twice.

This Duke team should play m2m, but I'd whip out a 1-3-1 at a random point in the game for giggles. Let's see if they learned anything.

[Saratoga2]

This should be a fun one as I currently live in New Haven, CT (for another 7 months). The pizza here is plentiful and surprisingly good. But the city is overshadowed by its neighbors, both medium in size and of much greater scale.

The Yale Bulldogs checks in on the season at 4-2 and appear to be the best team in the Ivy League. Tommy Amaker's Harvard Crimson have a few health issues to work out and appear poised to assert themselves in league play in a year or two. In the meantime, James Jones brings an experienced and spry group to Durham. Yale has an impressive (in name, at least) win against Miami just last weekend as well as a close overtime loss to Memphis. In the Miami game, junior forward Dewan Hernandez (formerly Huell) was held out as he undergoes scrutiny due to the ongoing FBI case. Without their standout forward, the Hurricanes have turned a season with hopes of competing for an NCAA Tournament bid into a disaster, losing 4 straight to northeastern teams Seton Hall, Rutgers, Yale, and Penn. The Penn game was not particularly close, either, with the Canes losing 75-89. Yuck. But back to the Yalies.

The squad is not particularly deep with just 7 players getting more than 16% of available minutes in the first part of their season. The team is fairly experienced with 3 seniors, 2 juniors, and 2 sophomores in the rotation. The headliner is 6'6" junior Miye Oni, a springy athlete that is shooting the ball really well. He's hitting 65.0% of his 2-pointers and making 38.7% of his 3's on 31 attempts so far this season. Sophomore guard Azar Swain is another bomber, hitting an impressive 48.6% of his 35 3-pointers. He has only attempted 6 shots inside the arc this season, so run him off the line. The painfully thin Jordan Bruner (a Brandon Ingram-esque 6'9" 194 lbs junior) is someone else to watch. He doesn't take many shots from deep, operating closer to the rim. But he can and does shoot from time to time. Rounding out the top four is 6'3" senior Alex Copeland. Copeland doesn't stand out much from a statistical standpoint, but he doesn't turn the ball over much. You might call him "steady." The team doesn't have a point guard per se as everyone will pass the ball freely. Oni gets the highest usage rate with Bruner being the most willing to set up his teammate. It's basically a point-guard-by-committee setup. That hasn't hurt them too much this year as the Bulldogs rank 5th nationally in effective FG% and in the top 20 in both 2P% and 3P%. They can really shoot the ball.

On defense, they don't steal the ball very much and there is almost no rim protection. They are just ok. They send their opponents to the line a lot. There are not a lot of things they do exceptionally well on that end of the floor. They have some players that can match up with Duke fairly well. Oni is really good. Like, he might be in the NBA in a couple of years. There are others, like Austin Williams and Blake Reynolds (such a Yale name), and Isaiah Kelly that should be able to check Cam or R.J. for a few minutes. I don't know how they are going to deal with Zion. And Tre is so darn pesky. My bet is that Oni starts the game trying to guard R.J.. We'll see if either of them get into early foul trouble. Losing Oni for any stretch of time might be doom for Yale.

At any rate, Let's Go Duke!

Not that it matters much, but my mothers family were among the original founders of New Haven and once owned a farm that Yale at least partially sits on.

What does matter is how the Eli's defend us. Will they learn from our previous opponents and pack it in and dare our outside shooters to hit open shots? I just hope our top shooters aren't as cold as on Wednesday evening. Cam can make a lot of difference.

Maybe their pick and roll, back cuts and outside shooting will provide enough fire power to stay in the game. I don't think trying to run with us will work for them.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

We need to avenge our loss to Yale in the men’s lacrosse championship game earlier this year.

[Green Wave Dukie]

This should be a fun one as I currently live in New Haven, CT (for another 7 months). The pizza here is plentiful and surprisingly good. But the city is overshadowed by its neighbors, both medium in size and of much greater scale.

The Yale Bulldogs checks in on the season at 4-2 and appear to be the best team in the Ivy League. Tommy Amaker's Harvard Crimson have a few health issues to work out and appear poised to assert themselves in league play in a year or two. In the meantime, James Jones brings an experienced and spry group to Durham. Yale has an impressive (in name, at least) win against Miami just last weekend as well as a close overtime loss to Memphis. In the Miami game, junior forward Dewan Hernandez (formerly Huell) was held out as he undergoes scrutiny due to the ongoing FBI case. Without their standout forward, the Hurricanes have turned a season with hopes of competing for an NCAA Tournament bid into a disaster, losing 4 straight to northeastern teams Seton Hall, Rutgers, Yale, and Penn. The Penn game was not particularly close, either, with the Canes losing 75-89. Yuck. But back to the Yalies.

The squad is not particularly deep with just 7 players getting more than 16% of available minutes in the first part of their season. The team is fairly experienced with 3 seniors, 2 juniors, and 2 sophomores in the rotation. The headliner is 6'6" junior Miye Oni, a springy athlete that is shooting the ball really well. He's hitting 65.0% of his 2-pointers and making 38.7% of his 3's on 31 attempts so far this season. Sophomore guard Azar Swain is another bomber, hitting an impressive 48.6% of his 35 3-pointers. He has only attempted 6 shots inside the arc this season, so run him off the line. The painfully thin Jordan Bruner (a Brandon Ingram-esque 6'9" 194 lbs junior) is someone else to watch. He doesn't take many shots from deep, operating closer to the rim. But he can and does shoot from time to time. Rounding out the top four is 6'3" senior Alex Copeland. Copeland doesn't stand out much from a statistical standpoint, but he doesn't turn the ball over much. You might call him "steady." The team doesn't have a point guard per se as everyone will pass the ball freely. Oni gets the highest usage rate with Bruner being the most willing to set up his teammate. It's basically a point-guard-by-committee setup. That hasn't hurt them too much this year as the Bulldogs rank 5th nationally in effective FG% and in the top 20 in both 2P% and 3P%. They can really shoot the ball.

On defense, they don't steal the ball very much and there is almost no rim protection. They are just ok. They send their opponents to the line a lot. There are not a lot of things they do exceptionally well on that end of the floor. They have some players that can match up with Duke fairly well. Oni is really good. Like, he might be in the NBA in a couple of years. There are others, like Austin Williams and Blake Reynolds (such a Yale name), and Isaiah Kelly that should be able to check Cam or R.J. for a few minutes. I don't know how they are going to deal with Zion. And Tre is so darn pesky. My bet is that Oni starts the game trying to guard R.J.. We'll see if either of them get into early foul trouble. Losing Oni for any stretch of time might be doom for Yale.

At any rate, Let's Go Duke!

Thanks, DBA.

Not trying to be snarky, but just curious what the bolded above actually means. I'm not real good at math (didn't go to Duke), but I keep trying to take 16% times 7 players and keep getting 112%, so obviously I don't understand the point. Looking for help/understanding. Or, maybe it means only 7 times this season has any one player played more than 6 minutes and 24 seconds?

[CDu]

Thanks, DBA.

Not trying to be snarky, but just curious what the bolded above actually means. I'm not real good at math (didn't go to Duke), but I keep trying to take 16% times 7 players and keep getting 112%, so obviously I don't understand the point. Looking for help/understanding. Or, maybe it means only 7 times this season has any one player played more than 6 minutes and 24 seconds?

There are 5 times as many minutes per game total (200) as there are available to any single player (40).

[weezie]

^you shouldn't be surprised by the pizza...

Frank Pepe's, right? Transcendent pizza

[gam7]

Think they'll do something to honor a certain Yale alum who passed away last week?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Think they'll do something to honor a certain Yale alum who passed away last week?
There was a moment of silence last Saturday, but not at Wednesday’s game. So probably not.

[martydoesntfoul]

Frank Pepe's, right? Transcendent pizzaPepe’s is a borderline religious experience. Sally’s is great too.

[MarkD83]

Safety school!!

[Bob Green]

This Duke team should play m2m, but I'd whip out a 1-3-1 at a random point in the game for giggles. Let's see if they learned anything.

Being able to throw a different defensive look at an opponent is a nice trait. These non-conference games are a good opportunity to experiment so I wholeheartedly endorse your recommendation.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Being able to throw a different defensive look at an opponent is a nice trait. These non-conference games are a good opportunity to experiment so I wholeheartedly endorse your recommendation.

I whole heartedly endorse your and Troublemaker's notions here. And I would add only one thing....sometimes a little change of pace is good for change sake, in addition to the points made earlier.

[OldPhiKap]

It seems to me that we’ve played a fair amount of full court and 3/4 court press on the inbounds, then collapsed to the m2m if they get the ball to the front court. We’ve been showing some different looks.

[MChambers]

It seems to me that we’ve played a fair amount of full court and 3/4 court press on the inbounds, then collapsed to the m2m if they get the ball to the front court. We’ve been showing some different looks.

Duke played a 2-3 zone (or 3-2) in an early blowout, as I recall. I don't think we've seen a 1-3-1. Play Reddish or Barrett up top?

[devildeac]

Duke played a 2-3 zone (or 3-2) in an early blowout, as I recall. I don't think we've seen a 1-3-1. Play Reddish or Barrett up top?


That might not be fair. I'd play Zion up there.

;)

[Troublemaker]

One more thing about those two games against Yale in 2016. We very well could've lost both of them if we didn't spring the 1-3-1. Now, this is a different, much better Duke team. The point is just that Yale is no joke as a program. KenPom #88 could put up a fight if we're unfocused.

On the other hand, this seems like a game where we'll have intense focus and energy. We'll have ten days off after this game, so the coaches can motivate and plead with the guys to empty their tanks today. Go all out, and then go do well on finals after playing great today.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Safety school!!

I owe my life to Yale! My father was waitlisted by Yale and accepted to Duke. He met my mother on East Campus when they were sophomores.

On the matter of pizza, the surprising matter is how all of these pizza places are always so packed. Who eats pizza so frequently? Seriously, the pizza consumption per capita is off the charts. There's Frank Pepe's, Sally's, DeLegna, Modern, BAR, 163, and more. A new pizza place + brewery just opened on Friday night. This is not a sprawling metropolis, mind you.

At any rate, I have enjoyed my time here in the Elm City and look forward to watching the Blue Devils take down the Eli's.

[DukeFanSince1990]

I will be there today! I will be the guy in the blue shirt.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Thanks, DBA.

Not trying to be snarky, but just curious what the bolded above actually means. I'm not real good at math (didn't go to Duke), but I keep trying to take 16% times 7 players and keep getting 112%, so obviously I don't understand the point. Looking for help/understanding. Or, maybe it means only 7 times this season has any one player played more than 6 minutes and 24 seconds?

I didn't explain this particular metric very well. On Bart Torvik's website, you can see a breakdown of every player using tempo-free stats (OR%, free throw rate, etc.). One of his metrics is percentage of minutes played. That is, of the 40 minutes (or 45 in OT), what share did the player play? Looking at their roster, only 7 players are seeing the floor for more than 16% of the available time. Put another way, only 7 players are averaging more than 10 minutes a game, with the exception of Eric Monroe, who has averaged 16.5 minutes in only 2 games played this season. In summary, they are not a deep team.

[NYBri]

I will be there today! I will be the guy in the blue shirt.

We'll be looking for you. :cool:

[53n206]

I
On the matter of pizza, the surprising matter is how all of these pizza places are always so packed. Who eats pizza so frequently? Seriously, the pizza consumption per capita is off the charts. There's Frank Pepe's, Sally's, DeLegna, Modern, BAR, 163, and more. A new pizza place + brewery just opened on Friday night. This is not a sprawling metropolis, mind you.

In the real old days(the 50s) we ate pizza in the living room of Anna Maria. That was really good pizza. I met my wife on a blind date on West. We had pizza at Anna's many times.

[budwom]

if I were a betting man (which I very rarely am), I'd take the visitors and the 24.5 points in this one. I suspect they can limit to some extent the turnovers our lads thrive on.

[Neals384]

"Eli's coming." Looking at the weather report, it's likely to be a _________.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

On the matter of pizza, the surprising matter is how all of these pizza places are always so packed. Who eats pizza so frequently? Seriously, the pizza consumption per capita is off the charts.

So it's like going to a Verizon cell phone store, or, God forbid, an Apple store? Why do people line up before they open and then they have an hour wait almost all day long? Sheesh!

Like Yogi Berra once said "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." :cool:

LGD GTHc! 9F!

[luvdahops]

^you shouldn't be surprised by the pizza. New Haven has had a robust Italian-American population for more than a century, and CT ranks second in the country (behind Rhode Island) in % of Italian Americans.
I spent five arduous years in that vicinity, and the pizza and Italian food helped get me through it.

I lived further south in CT (New Canaan) for 5 years, but several times made the trek up to Frank Pepe's, which more than lives up to its formidable reputation. I always heard good things about Sally's, too, but never went there.

[OldPhiKap]

I lived further south in CT (New Canaan) for 5 years, but several times made the trek up to Frank Pepe's, which more than lives up to its formidable reputation. I always heard good things about Sally's, too, but never went there.

There was good pie for you nearby, in the Silvermine and Broad River sections of Norwalk.

[luvdahops]

There was good pie for you nearby, in the Silvermine and Broad River sections of Norwalk.

Uncle Joe's was a favorite of ours. Total joint with little to no ambiance, but great food.

[OldPhiKap]

Uncle Joe's was a favorite of ours. Total joint with little to no ambiance, but great food.

That, and John’s Best right down the road.

Uncle Joe’s was a Lenten Friday tradition as a kid — no meat, so we all went and got a cheese pie. Marinara sauce, of course.

This was before they expanded, I think there is now a seating area to the left as you look at the building. (I grew up about five minutes from there)

[budwom]

I lived further south in CT (New Canaan) for 5 years, but several times made the trek up to Frank Pepe's, which more than lives up to its formidable reputation. I always heard good things about Sally's, too, but never went there.

Ah, Connecticut's Golden Panhandle....certainly was not the hotbed of Italian-American settlement in the 1890s...so I can see the necessity of the trek.
The Connecticut River valley was chock full of industry, lots of great immigrant opportunities...Hartford, Wallingford, Meriden, New Haven, on and on.

[TKG]

We have to play with intensity- especially on D - from the opening tip. Yale likes to play at a deliberate pace so we need to speed them up. I will be interested to see if we employ the zone press from the outset. Tre’s ball pressure will be the key to setting the tone defensively.

I think I used every basketball cliche in the lexicon, sorry.

[DavidBenAkiva]

We have to play with intensity- especially on D - from the opening tip. Yale likes to play at a deliberate pace so we need to speed them up. I will be interested to see if we employ the zone press from the outset. Tre’s ball pressure will be the key to setting the tone defensively.

I think I used every basketball cliche in the lexicon, sorry.

Regarding tempo, Yale has been playing at a relatively fast pace this season. They are averaging an adjusted 73.6 possessions per 40 minutes. That's right about where Duke has been this year, which is at 73.9. I agree that we'll likely see a lot of ball pressure as they do not have a designated or at least a traditional point guard.

[TKG]

Regarding tempo, Yale has been playing at a relatively fast pace this season. They are averaging an adjusted 73.6 possessions per 40 minutes. That's right about where Duke has been this year, which is at 73.9. I agree that we'll likely see a lot of ball pressure as they do not have a designated or at least a traditional point guard.

DBA, thanks for the analytics. The latest example of why I should not rely on the eye test. I do not believe Yale wants to get in a high possession game with us, however.

[-jk]

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Let's Go Duke!

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[AGDukesky]

Reddish might need to come off the bench

[AGDukesky]

Reddish is still working hard on defense but his offense is really hurting the team

[AGDukesky]

Just can’t make enough good plays in a row to pull away. Lot of forced shots and defensive breakdowns. I know we are trying to speed Yale up but we are just not executing well so far.

[AGDukesky]

AOC with good minutes and some better effort along with White to help get a bit of a margin

[duke74]

Good to see the announcers often referring to R.J.‘s father‘s (and mother’s) school-St. John’s. One school I graduated from (Duke) the other I am a professor at (St. John’s) - a confluence of institutions for me.

Soon to be on the court at Cameron, in I believe, February.

[AGDukesky]

Should be up twenty but bad FT shooting and some really dumb plays keeping Yale in the game

[MChambers]

Excellent ball hawking defense. I’m happy with a nine point lead over a good team, but it would be nice if Duke could shoot threes and free throws.

[GGLC]

Yeah, these steals are fantastic. Free throw shooting, less so.

[Old Dukie]

Being able to throw a different defensive look at an opponent is a nice trait. These non-conference games are a good opportunity to experiment so I wholeheartedly endorse your recommendation.

A zone used intermittently is a powerful weapon.

[devilish]

What is a fowel?

[MChambers]

What is a fowel?

A letter than isn’t a consonant? Or are you talking about the officiating?

[MChambers]

He came back for about 10 seconds, then got subbed out. Have to think that knee is sore.

[devilish]

A letter than isn’t a consonant? Or are you talking about the officiating?

Apparently a penalty in basketball is a fowel. Like towel.

[richardjackson199]

He came back for about 10 seconds, then got subbed out. Have to think that knee is sore.

I was thinking same. But on bench and never went to locker room is good I would think. No reason to play him in this blowout.

[Old Dukie]

Reddish might need to come off the bench

Definitely...at least until his intensity/interest level reflects that of a Duke player!

[MChambers]

I was thinking same. But on bench and never went to locker room is good I would think. No reason to play him in this blowout.

My guess is that he bruised his knee, but nothing worse.

[devilsadvocate85]

A zone used intermittently is a powerful weapon.

There you old stick in the mud. We played zone for the last 2 minutes.