Welcome to Duke Vernon Carey!!!

[JasonEvans]

Dude is a beast with serious skills.

"After a lot of consideration... I will be attending the Brotherhood!"

Suddenly our recruiting for next season seems pretty darn special... again!

-Jason "K rules!" Evans

[OldPhiKap]

Bang

[El_Diablo]

It's Duke! Announced via handkerchief. :D

[DavidBenAkiva]

Hell yes! He's so, so good and is going to be a focal point for Duke next season. Fantastic news.

[mbd1mbd1]

Attending the Brotherhood!

[arnie]

Bang

Crystal Ball did well

[aivroadstr]

Brotherhood BABY!!!! Welcome Vernon Carey.

[cbarry]

Yesss!! Welcome to Duke. Interesting... pulling out the Duke hankie. Lol.

[MrPoon]

Awesome!

[OldPhiKap]

Roy swings and misses again, daggum it

[brlftz]

Izzo must be SO tired of this.

[Billy Dat]

LET'S GO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome to Duke, Vernon!

[JasonEvans]

Great kid. High character...

...but not exactly comfortable on camera. This interview on Sportscenter is painful. I'm sure the Duke media folks will help him with this.

[TruBlu]

Sophomore Nassir Little will shut him down. And Junior Nassir Little will shut down the big in next year’s class.

[BD80]

Seth Greenberg: "High character kid." Love it.


He's already trying to bring more into the truck. He mentioned Moore and Ellis, and "hopefully more."

Sees himself as a positionless player.



Not that comfortable in interviews, soft-spoken, but seems like a genuinely nice "kid."

[UrinalCake]

Great kid. High character...

...but not exactly comfortable on camera. This interview on Sportscenter is painful. I'm sure the Duke media folks will help him with this.

I thought the same thing. Duke will help him with his media/interview presence as well as things like social media branding. Great get, fills a huge need on next year’s roster.

[Bluedevil114]

Welcome to Duke, Vernon Carey. Our recruiting is really slumping. Go Duke.

[Troublemaker]

You know our recruiting message is powerful when the kid himself says words like "The Brotherhood" and "positionless player" in his announcement.

BTW, his outside shot looks really smooth for a big guy in those ESPN clips. Hopefully with another year of refinement, we'll have a stretch-5 next season.

Welcome to Duke, Vernon!!!

[whereinthehellami]

Sweet pick up!

[Bluedevil114]

The Brotherhood continues to roll. Welcome to Duke. This is a huge get. A very talented big man.

[MrPoon]

Izzo must be SO tired of this.

No shame in being second.


Roy is telling all the boosters, “we feel good about our third place finish”

[kAzE]

LETS GO!!! Welcome, Vernon!

[MChambers]

Welcome to Duke Mr. Carey, indeed! This recruiting class is looking better and better.

[LasVegas]

No shame in being second.


Roy is telling all the boosters, “we feel good about our third place finish”

Like my favorite nascar driver says “If you’re not first, you’re last.”

[NSDukeFan]

Yes!!! Very exciting for next year. Welcome to Duke!

[Troublemaker]

Izzo must be SO tired of this.

Here's the MSU salt thread (schadenfreude): https://247sports.com/college/michigan-state/Board/93/Contents/Vernon-Carey-to-Duke-125667922/?Page=37

Expect vulgarity in that thread, of course.

UNC wasn't really in it. This was a vicious slugfest between Duke and MSU, and we came out on top. It's very possible we came from behind on this recruitment. Much thanks to the current freshmen, whose energy, fun, love for each other, love for Duke have shown through on TV and ESPN highlights.

[jv001]

Welcome aboard young man.

GoDuke!

[jv001]

Here's the MSU salt thread (schadenfreude): https://247sports.com/college/michigan-state/Board/93/Contents/Vernon-Carey-to-Duke-125667922/?Page=37

Expect vulgarity in that thread, of course.

UNC wasn't really in it. This was a vicious slugfest between Duke and MSU, and we came out on top. It's very possible we came from behind on this recruitment. Much thanks to the current freshmen, whose energy, fun, love for each other, love for Duke have shown through on TV and ESPN highlights.

I think you nailed it TM. Our current team is a great selling point to come play for Coach K. GoDuke!

[scottdude8]

I love how over the past week Duke has schooled Michigan State (again) on the recruiting trail and Michigan embarrassed UNC. It's like my two teams are joining forces just for my benefit. I'm a happy camper :)

[MrPoon]

Here's the MSU salt thread (schadenfreude): https://247sports.com/college/michigan-state/Board/93/Contents/Vernon-Carey-to-Duke-125667922/?Page=37

Expect vulgarity in that thread, of course.

UNC wasn't really in it. This was a vicious slugfest between Duke and MSU, and we came out on top. It's very possible we came from behind on this recruitment. Much thanks to the current freshmen, whose energy, fun, love for each other, love for Duke have shown through on TV and ESPN highlights.

Warning! Do not visit that blog if Stewart picks Duke, it may burn your eyes.

[jv001]

I love how over the past week Duke has schooled Michigan State (again) on the recruiting trail and Michigan embarrassed UNC. It's like my two teams are joining forces just for my benefit. I'm a happy camper :)

Yeh a great 2 days for me. Duke get's a commitment from Carey and my St. Louis Cardinals land Paul Goldschmidt. Yeh baby. :cool:

GoDuke!

[devildeac]

Here's the MSU salt thread (schadenfreude): https://247sports.com/college/michigan-state/Board/93/Contents/Vernon-Carey-to-Duke-125667922/?Page=37

Expect vulgarity in that thread, of course.

UNC wasn't really in it. This was a vicious slugfest between Duke and MSU, and we came out on top. It's very possible we came from behind on this recruitment. Much thanks to the current freshmen, whose energy, fun, love for each other, love for Duke have shown through on TV and ESPN highlights.

Pretty angry, bitter and vulgar stuff there. SMH.

Very happy to have another passenger on/in the truck. Welcome, indeed!

[BD80]

No shame in being second.


Roy is telling all the boosters, “we feel good about our third place finish”


Like my favorite nascar driver says “If you’re not first, you’re last.”

I'm beginning to suspect that ol' roy just might enjoy the view from back there. He always manages to jockey for that spot.

[Troublemaker]

Warning! Do not visit that blog if Stewart picks Duke, it may burn your eyes.


Pretty angry, bitter and vulgar stuff there. SMH.

Very happy to have another passenger on/in the truck. Welcome, indeed!

Yes, I should've emphasized/reminded folks that DBR is a special place. It's not like most message boards. When we lose out on a recruitment, we're not going to react like THAT.

Only click on that thread if you have a strong stomach and can enjoy the schadenfreude of people totally flipping out, with much vulgarity.

I myself love licking those tears, but it's not for everyone.

[budwom]

Here's the MSU salt thread (schadenfreude): https://247sports.com/college/michigan-state/Board/93/Contents/Vernon-Carey-to-Duke-125667922/?Page=37

Expect vulgarity in that thread, of course.

UNC wasn't really in it. This was a vicious slugfest between Duke and MSU, and we came out on top. It's very possible we came from behind on this recruitment. Much thanks to the current freshmen, whose energy, fun, love for each other, love for Duke have shown through on TV and ESPN highlights.

I really can't muster any contempt for MSU. We beat them on the court, we beat them with recruits, not much new.
On the other hand, I've concentrated my personal bucket of schadenfreude on the squalid chaps just down the road from us. Inside Carolina expected bad news and got it...nonetheless, they are still dyspeptic about the whole thing. Makes for fun reading...

[proelitedota]

Bolden should graduate early and either play professionally somewhere or graduate transfer to another program where he can start.

Carey will be getting majority of the minutes at center next year.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Great news X 2:

1. Vernon will be a Blue Devil.


2. Vernon will NOT be a cheat.


WIN WIN

[budwom]

Bolden should graduate early and either play professionally somewhere or graduate transfer to another program where he can start.

Carey will be getting majority of the minutes at center next year.

I'm not sure about that. If Stewart chooses Duke, many feel he's the better choice for "center," as much as we have one...Without Stewart, I agree with you...

[weezie]

Pretty angry, bitter and vulgar stuff there...

It's how they show their colors, I guess. Let them drown in the morass.

And yessir, WELCOME MT. VERNON!

[kcduke75]

Great news X 2:

1. Vernon will be a Blue Devil.


2. Vernon will NOT be a cheat.


WIN WIN

Can someone who has probably had to take a shower recently share some highlights from IC?

Thanks

[weezie]

Can someone who has probably had to take a shower recently share some highlights from IC?

Thanks

You're welcome! It's all rather muted and sulky. I think they gathered their stuffies and blankies beforehand and are now rocking back and forth in the corner while humming softly to themselves.

One I particularly enjoyed described our Vernon as making Zion look like a little guy.

[JayZee]

Yes, I should've emphasized/reminded folks that DBR is a special place. It's not like most message boards. When we lose out on a recruitment, we're not going to react like THAT.

Only click on that thread if you have a strong stomach and can enjoy the schadenfreude of people totally flipping out, with much vulgarity.

I myself love licking those tears, but it's not for everyone.

Amidst all the "woe is MSU" and vulgarity are more than a few rational voices basically saying, chill, this makes sense, if you were a top 10 why wouldn't you go to Duke, Carey seems like a good kid.
Now Izzo is clearly a great coach and recruiter but MSU has a couple challenges. first, It's in Lansing which is, lets just say, not a huge pull as a city. More importantly, the Nassar stuff is quite bad. As in really really awful. And similar to our rivals down the street, that's a stink that permeates the entire athletic department and university administration. Frankly, as bad as the academic fraud was at UNC, supporting/protecting a sexual predator is way worse in my book. And I hope everyone else's. If I were a parent of a student athlete, I don't care how much I like Izzo, no way I send my kid to MSU. (or UNC)

[mkirsh]

I know we are all about positionless basketball, but despite that Carey give us a starting center on our all-lefty Duke all stars, to go with Zion at the 4, Justise at the 3, RJ at 2, Johnny Dawkins running point, with Kennard and Hood coming off the bench.

[CDu]

I know we are all about positionless basketball, but despite that Carey give us a starting center on our all-lefty Duke all stars, to go with Zion at the 4, Justise at the 3, RJ at 2, Johnny Dawkins running point, with Kennard and Hood coming off the bench.

Might be worth mentioning some guy who played last year, too (Bagley).

[ehdg]

Welcome to Duke Vernon!! Guess we can forget about those days when Duke couldn't get any big men to come here!!

[weezie]

Welcome to Duke Vernon!! Guess we can forget about those days when Duke couldn't get any big men to come here!!

Guess it wasn't all just Capel in the recruiting then?

[mkirsh]

Might be worth mentioning some guy who played last year, too (Bagley).

Oh man, how did I miss that one? He has to start, so maybe he’s my small ball 5 and Carey comes off the bench

[azzefkram]

Great pick up for Duke. Welcome to the Brotherhood, Vernon.

[clarkwgriswold4]

Can someone who has probably had to take a shower recently share some highlights from IC?

Thanks

This is actually my first post here, but I've been lurking for a while, and, more importantly, I have spent the better part of the last 30 minutes in the wasteland that is IC.

The Carey post basically devolved into 4 pages of replies about how "I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this." has become the "cool school" for recruits that UNC was in the 80s and 90s. Actually, to be fair, a couple of posters suggested that idea, and then the rabid pack of dogs jumped all over those guys. Honestly, they should be embarrassed with how they treated one poster specifically who has been a cheats fan since the 80s (he claims). This guy had the gall to suggest that Ole Roy's stubbornness in a number of areas (play style, social media abstinence, refusal to play top freshmen) is why he is losing so many of these recruiting battles -- which of course makes sense if you don't bleed that putrid shade of washed-out blue.

[moonpie23]

IC is in church mouse mode...


WELCOME TO THE BROTHERHOOD MR CAREY!!!!!!!

[devildeac]

This is actually my first post here, but I've been lurking for a while, and, more importantly, I have spent the better part of the last 30 minutes in the wasteland that is IC.

The Carey post basically devolved into 4 pages of replies about how "I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this." has become the "cool school" for recruits that UNC was in the 80s and 90s. Actually, to be fair, a couple of posters suggested that idea, and then the rabid pack of dogs jumped all over those guys. Honestly, they should be embarrassed with how they treated one poster specifically who has been a cheats fan since the 80s (he claims). This guy had the gall to suggest that Ole Roy's stubbornness in a number of areas (play style, social media abstinence, refusal to play top freshmen) is why he is losing so many of these recruiting battles -- which of course makes sense if you don't bleed that putrid shade of washed-out blue.

Good start. Post more!

Thanks for the reporting. You are excused so you may bathe/shower now. ;)

[CameronBlue]

You're welcome! It's all rather muted and sulky. I think they gathered their stuffies and blankies beforehand and are now rocking back and forth in the corner while humming softly to themselves.

One I particularly enjoyed described our Vernon as making Zion look like a little guy.

I'd send them some Chihuly to perk them up if someone else would actually buy it and pay for shipping. No seriously, anyone have any used Chihuly? I'm Christmas shopping for my wife.

[DukeTrinity11]

Guys, what is Bolden's role at Duke next year, can he and Carey co-exist like Bagley and Carter in 2017?

Bolden will be too good to not start next year. I'd love to see him complete his journey here at Duke and become a dominant player his senior year so I hope K can find a way to integrate both.

Welcome Carey, lets go Duke!!!

[OldPhiKap]

This is actually my first post here, but I've been lurking for a while, and, more importantly, I have spent the better part of the last 30 minutes in the wasteland that is IC.

The Carey post basically devolved into 4 pages of replies about how "I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this." has become the "cool school" for recruits that UNC was in the 80s and 90s. Actually, to be fair, a couple of posters suggested that idea, and then the rabid pack of dogs jumped all over those guys. Honestly, they should be embarrassed with how they treated one poster specifically who has been a cheats fan since the 80s (he claims). This guy had the gall to suggest that Ole Roy's stubbornness in a number of areas (play style, social media abstinence, refusal to play top freshmen) is why he is losing so many of these recruiting battles -- which of course makes sense if you don't bleed that putrid shade of washed-out blue.

Truth hurts, I guess.

Welcome to the posting world, Clark. Mere lurking is not allowed -- the moose out front should have told 'ya.

[CDu]

Guys, what is Bolden's role at Duke next year, can he and Carey co-exist like Bagley and Carter in 2017?

Bolden will be too good to not start next year. I'd love to see him complete his journey here at Duke and become a dominant player his senior year so I hope K can find a way to integrate both.

Welcome Carey, lets go Duke!!!

Probably not the right thread for this question. I would recommend maybe the 2019 recruiting thread. Let’s keep this one positive about Carey!

[jimsumner]

I know we are all about positionless basketball, but despite that Carey give us a starting center on our all-lefty Duke all stars, to go with Zion at the 4, Justise at the 3, RJ at 2, Johnny Dawkins running point, with Kennard and Hood coming off the bench.

The all-lefty team has to have a spot for Jack Marin.

[weezie]

Probably not the right thread for this question. I would recommend maybe the 2019 recruiting thread...

Now just a minute CDu, I think you should direct the poster to the "Minutes" thread that debuts next summer.

[CDu]

Now just a minute CDu, I think you should direct the poster to the "Minutes" thread that debuts next summer.

Touché weezie. Touché.

[OldPhiKap]

Probably not the right thread for this question. I would recommend maybe the 2019 recruiting thread. Let’s keep this one positive about Carey!


Now just a minute CDu, I think you should direct the poster to the "Minutes" thread that debuts next summer.


Touché weezie. Touché.

Anywhere but here, agree with CDu.

[AZLA]

yes!!! Very exciting for next year. Welcome to duke!

shake 'n bake!

[NSDukeFan]

I know we are all about positionless basketball, but despite that Carey give us a starting center on our all-lefty Duke all stars, to go with Zion at the 4, Justise at the 3, RJ at 2, Johnny Dawkins running point, with Kennard and Hood coming off the bench.


Might be worth mentioning some guy who played last year, too (Bagley).

Is anyone getting concerned that Coach K is losing his touch with recruiting and developing ultra elite right handed recruits? Has he been focusing too much on leftys lately?

[Tripping William]

Is anyone getting concerned that Coach K is losing his touch with recruiting and developing ultra elite right handed recruits? Has he been focusing too much on leftys lately?

And lord knows righties like Jon Scheyer, Nate James, Chris Carawell and Nolan Smith can't effectively coach lefties.

[OldPhiKap]

Is anyone getting concerned that Coach K is losing his touch with recruiting and developing ultra elite right handed recruits? Has he been focusing too much on leftys lately?


And lord knows righties like Jon Scheyer, Nate James, Chris Carawell and Nolan Smith can't effectively coach lefties.

Hey! No politics here.

[NSDukeFan]

And lord knows righties like Jon Scheyer, Nate James, Chris Carawell and Nolan Smith can't effectively coach lefties.

I’m starting to wonder if one or more of those coaches hasn’t secretly turned left handed to help on the recruiting trail.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

And lord knows righties like Jon Scheyer, Nate James, Chris Carawell and Nolan Smith can't effectively coach lefties.

And they clearly aren’t equipped to coach ambidextrous, or, heaven forbid, amphibious players.

[Indoor66]

Now just a minute CDu, I think you should direct the poster to the "Minutes" thread that debuts next summer.

Next summer? Probably next week.😎

[Tripping William]

I’m starting to wonder if one or more of those coaches hasn’t secretly turned left handed to help on the recruiting trail.


And they clearly aren’t equipped to coach ambidextrous, or, heaven forbid, amphibious players.

Nolan did play on the same team as Kyrie Irving, the most amphibious player I have ever seen at Duke. Coincidence??

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Nolan did play on the same team as Kyrie Irving, the most amphibious player I have ever seen at Duke. Coincidence??

...help me out here....in the way back machine......wasn't the famous amphibious quote given after a Duke game, when Shackleford had scored a lot against Danny Ferry? Or am I having visions or suffering from CRS?

[sagegrouse]

...help me out here...in the way back machine...wasn't the famous amphibious quote given after a Duke game, when Shackleford had scored a lot against Danny Ferry? Or am I having visions or suffering from CRS?

No, it was a network program on NC State -- maybe 60 Minutes? He was responding to a Q about his ability to use both hands.

[MChambers]

Now just a minute CDu, I think you should direct the poster to the "Minutes" thread that debuts next summer.

I thought every thread was a minutes thread.

[devildeac]

I thought every thread was a minutes thread.

Well, probably not every thread but we have discussed minutes here:

https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3840-Ymm-Beer

As in: 60/75/90/120

I'll show myself out now. :o

[JayZee]

No, it was a network program on NC State -- maybe 60 Minutes? He was responding to a Q about his ability to use both hands.

I think it was 48 hours.

Same one where they caught a bunch of NC State players coming out of a class called "Introduction to Recreation and Leisure Time" if I remember correctly. I think it was Shack who made the point that they needed some easier classes as they have so much practice and travel time as players. Good point. Then the reported asked the junior what his other classes were and he replied "English, Science and Geometry" which struck me as quite similar to my HS freshman year.

Now Duke came off relatively well, except for Greg Koubek who seemed to not know that he had a test or something.

I remember the filming as I had a 200 level stats course with George Burgin and he told me to sit with him if I wanted to try to get on TV. Didn't make it.

[rsvman]

This is an awesome get, and I am excited that Vernon is coming to join us! LGD!!

[NSDukeFan]

Nolan did play on the same team as Kyrie Irving, the most amphibious player I have ever seen at Duke. Coincidence??

Since Nolan has been on staff, Duke has successfully recruited Bagley, Barrett and Williamson and now Carey. A little bit more than a coincidence, I think.

[4Gen]

... MSU has a couple challenges. first, It's in Lansing which is, lets just say, not a huge pull as a city...

And 20 years ago, who could have predicted that Durham would become such a cool, lively, and lovely place to live? It's no coincidence that Duke athletes make the bull horns hand sign. It's a wonderful town. Just look at any magazine ranking cities.

[DU82]

I think it was 48 hours.

Same one where they caught a bunch of NC State players coming out of a class called "Introduction to Recreation and Leisure Time" if I remember correctly. I think it was Shack who made the point that they needed some easier classes as they have so much practice and travel time as players. Good point. Then the reported asked the junior what his other classes were and he replied "English, Science and Geometry" which struck me as quite similar to my HS freshman year.

Now Duke came off relatively well, except for Greg Koubek who seemed to not know that he had a test or something.

I remember the filming as I had a 200 level stats course with George Burgin and he told me to sit with him if I wanted to try to get on TV. Didn't make it.

The show was on 48 Hours. It did not shine a great light on Valvano and State. While Koubek flunked a test, it showed that they were regular students and had to go to class and study. Greg gave no excuses.

The famous Shackelford amphibious quote was actually on WRAL, during an interview by, I believe Bob Holliday.

[OldPhiKap]

Well, probably not every thread but we have discussed minutes here:

https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3840-Ymm-Beer

As in: 60/75/90/120

I'll show myself out now. :o

Without clicking the link, I will be disappointed if it’s not about Dogfish Head.

[slower]

Bolden will be too good to not start next year.

Remains to be seen.

[devildeac]

Without clicking the link, I will be disappointed if it’s not about Dogfish Head.

Link is to the Ymm, Beer thread. I didn't sort out all the individual DFH 60/75/90/120 reviews. Sorry. :(

[UrinalCake]

I always thought this was the origin of the amphibious joke

8862

[MChambers]

I always thought this was the origin of the amphibious joke

8862

You’re decades out of touch.

[AtlDuke72]

Guys, what is Bolden's role at Duke next year, can he and Carey co-exist like Bagley and Carter in 2017?

Bolden will be too good to not start next year.

I wish that I could see something in Bolden’s play to justify the optimism.

[BD80]

Is anyone getting concerned that Coach K is losing his touch with recruiting and developing ultra elite right handed recruits? Has he been focusing too much on leftys lately?

Coach K has long been accused of sinisterness.

[NSDukeFan]

Coach K has long been accused of sinisterness.

He might have to use a little more dexterity in the future.

[Dukehky]

Izzo must be SO tired of this.

Izzo is gonna get us for Isaiah Stewart. Although, I would rather have senior bolden than freshman Stewart, and I have a hard time seeing all three playing for the same team. Vernon and Ques work better together than Stewart and Ques, it also leaves room for Hurt.

It's all good news. The staff knows what it's doing. Really good news to get this level of guy in any class.

[CDu]

Izzo is gonna get us for Isaiah Stewart. Although, I would rather have senior bolden than freshman Stewart, and I have a hard time seeing all three playing for the same team. Vernon and Ques work better together than Stewart and Ques, it also leaves room for Hurt.

I think Bolden and Carey might work okay offensively, but I don't think so defensively.


It's all good news. The staff knows what it's doing. Really good news to get this level of guy in any class.

On this I agree. Getting Carey is awesome news. The coaching staff will figure out the right frontcourt player to pair with Carey. I just don't think it will be Bolden.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Love it!

This priceless quote from MSU:

I've never understood how Duke considers themselves the "Brotherhood". You go to Duke for a year. I have things in my fridge that hang around longer than that.

[Rich]

Love it!

This priceless quote from MSU:

I've never understood how Duke considers themselves the "Brotherhood". You go to Duke for a year. I have things in my fridge that hang around longer than that.

Yeah, well, isn't that the (selling) point? Duke welcomes you for a year (or 2, 3 or 4) and you're considered part of the program for life. Membership has its privileges!

[DavidBenAkiva]

Love it!

This priceless quote from MSU:

I've never understood how Duke considers themselves the "Brotherhood". You go to Duke for a year. I have things in my fridge that hang around longer than that.

The irony there is how many MSU fans were CERTAIN Carey was going to East Lansing because Jaren Jackson, Jr. was talking to Carey frequently. You're main selling point to Carey was a one-and-done but that's a flaw for Duke? Ummmm ok. Maybe next time, Spartans!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yeah, well, isn't that the (selling) point? Duke welcomes you for a year (or 2, 3 or 4) and you're considered part of the program for life. Membership has its privileges!

It’s marketing. Is it awesome? Yes. Do players buy in? Yes. But it’s marketing. And good for Duke.

[NYBri]

It’s over.

[CameronBlue]

Love it!

This priceless quote from MSU:

I've never understood how Duke considers themselves the "Brotherhood". You go to Duke for a year. I have things in my fridge that hang around longer than that.

I have things in my fridge that have acquired sentience. I fail to see the point he's making.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Do players buy in? Yes..

...and that's the key right there....the players buy in. Kyrie more than anyone maybe, and he only played 11 games (or whatever it was). Regardless, if the players buy in, then it's a reality, regardless of how absurd outsiders may think it is.

[BLPOG]

Coach K has long been accused of sinisterness.

Well, that just goes to show that the accusers have a poor command of English. They should have accused him of "sinistrality."

[Furniture]

You know our recruiting message is powerful when the kid himself says words like "The Brotherhood" and "positionless player" in his announcement.

BTW, his outside shot looks really smooth for a big guy in those ESPN clips. Hopefully with another year of refinement, we'll have a stretch-5 next season.

Welcome to Duke, Vernon!!!

I have said it before. The Brotherhood is the rebranding for when K retires.
IMHO.

[JasonEvans]

I have said it before. The Brotherhood is the rebranding for when K retires.
IMHO.

2025 recruiting pitch- “Come here and be part of a lifelong brotherhood. Just like Coach K, who just retired but is still connected to all of you guys.”

Yup, works for me.

[BigWayne]

I always thought this was the origin of the amphibious joke

8862

https://www.facebook.com/1678871369020832/videos/rip-charles-shackleford-it-was-no-urban-legend-he-did-say-he-could-score-using-h/1823109377930363/

Says they did not air the amphibious part, just the lead in to the punch line.

This is a better video of it.

https://www.wralsportsfan.com/ncsu/video/16478424/

[UrinalCake]

You’re decades out of touch.

That's what my kids keep telling me :D

[Troublemaker]

It’s marketing. Is it awesome? Yes. Do players buy in? Yes. But it’s marketing. And good for Duke.

It's marketing AND the truth, though. What, our players don't really share a bond across different recruiting classes and even different generations? I've read way too many stories to the contrary.

The only slight criticism of The Brotherhood that I can see is that we're not the only school whose players love to return to campus, who hug each other before NBA games, who stay in touch with their former coaches and teammates at Duke and build relationships across recruiting classes and generations. (Although, I suppose for even that slight criticism to stick, we would have to market ourselves as the only Brotherhood out there.) Other programs definitely enjoy this as well. UNC fans will complain that we basically stole their "Carolina Family" schtick from the 80s and 90s, for example.

[BD80]

2025 recruiting pitch- “Come here and be part of a lifelong brotherhood. Just like Coach K, who just retired but is still connected to all of you guys.”

Yup, works for me.

When did "The Brotherhood" arise?

Prior players are undoubtedly welcomed in, but have they embraced the branding?

[budwom]

No question that having Carey, Stewart and Bolden on the same team would constitute something of a frontcourt logjam. Much has been written about this elsewhere, no need to go into
speculation here, but many doubt (including me) we'll see those three together.

[plimnko]

i'll take what we get. this k guy seems to know what he's doing

[UrinalCake]

The only slight criticism of The Brotherhood that I can see is that we're not the only school...

I don't see how that's a criticism. Nobody claimed that we're the only school whose players have a connection. We just choose to market it differently, and in some respects we sell the idea that the connection is stronger at Duke than elsewhere.

I actually think it's funny when other schools think the notion of The Brotherhood is a joke, yet their players talk about their program being a family and their teammates being like brothers. It's the exact same concept, just without a label attached to it.

[Clipsfan]

I don't see how that's a criticism. Nobody claimed that we're the only school whose players have a connection. We just choose to market it differently, and in some respects we sell the idea that the connection is stronger at Duke than elsewhere.

I actually think it's funny when other schools think the notion of The Brotherhood is a joke, yet their players talk about their program being a family and their teammates being like brothers. It's the exact same concept, just without a label attached to it.

I don't think that other schools think that brotherhood is a joke, they just don't like that Duke gets so much publicity for calling it The Brotherhood when they all have the same thing. It's a variant of Duke gets all the calls.

[JayZee]

It's marketing AND the truth, though. What, our players don't really share a bond across different recruiting classes and even different generations? I've read way too many stories to the contrary.

The only slight criticism of The Brotherhood that I can see is that we're not the only school whose players love to return to campus, who hug each other before NBA games, who stay in touch with their former coaches and teammates at Duke and build relationships across recruiting classes and generations. (Although, I suppose for even that slight criticism to stick, we would have to market ourselves as the only Brotherhood out there.) Other programs definitely enjoy this as well. UNC fans will complain that we basically stole their "Carolina Family" schtick from the 80s and 90s, for example.

The UNC fans have a point. K clearly recognized the value of the Carolina Family pitch and frankly just implemented an better version of it. It's not our fault that K implemented lessons/insights from Dean better than Roy.

[NSDukeFan]

No question that having Carey, Stewart and Bolden on the same team would constitute something of a frontcourt logjam. Much has been written about this elsewhere, no need to go into
speculation here, but many doubt (including me) we'll see those three together.

Maybe not, but generally it’s good to have more talented players and more of them than to have the perfect fits in less talented players.

[fgb]

No question that having Carey, Stewart and Bolden on the same team would constitute something of a frontcourt logjam. Much has been written about this elsewhere, no need to go into
speculation here, but many doubt (including me) we'll see those three together.

i've thought for a while that the best thing for marquis could be to enter his name into the 2019 draft, regardless of who is on our roster next season. this year's class doesn't seem to have nearly as many elite bigs as last year's did, or as 2020 seems likely to have. maybe i'm missing something, but is just seems like 2019 could be the draft year in which he'll have the most value.

[Billy Dat]

I don't think that other schools think that brotherhood is a joke, they just don't like that Duke gets so much publicity for calling it The Brotherhood when they all have the same thing. It's a variant of Duke gets all the calls.

I think it is also the perception that Duke (and K) are all about marketing and branding, that it is a "corporate" program. K's constant references to brand and his leadership books and his corporate speaking gigs all fuel this perception. In addition, Duke is miles ahead of every other program on overall program branding (especially social media presence) and Dave Bradley seems to be the genius behind it all as this article demonstrates

https://247sports.com/college/duke/Article/Behind-The-Scenes-With-Dukes-Creative-Director-David-Bradley-117664734/

[arnie]

i've thought for a while that the best thing for marquis could be to enter his name into the 2019 draft, regardless of who is on our roster next season. this year's class doesn't seem to have nearly as many elite bigs as last year's did, or as 2020 seems likely to have. maybe i'm missing something, but is just seems like 2019 could be the draft year in which he'll have the most value.

In today’s NBA, would Marques ever play? although they have different strengths and weaknesses, if Okafor isn’t part of a rotation, don’t see Marques with a role.

[ChillinDuke]

Maybe not, but generally it’s good to have more talented players and more of them than to have the perfect fits in less talented players.

I'm not sure I totally agree with that take. There's a nuance there that's very important.

Yes, it's better to have talented players on the level of Duke than to have perfect fits on the level of Hartford, for example.

But at the highest level, I'd rather have perfect fits that are ACC caliber players than Top-10 recruits that are all 6'11" or 6'1".

I realize you said generally, but I still wanted to chime in :rolleyes:

- Chillin

[Kedsy]

In today’s NBA, would Marques ever play? although they have different strengths and weaknesses, if Okafor isn’t part of a rotation, don’t see Marques with a role.

Jahlil is an offense-only player with an offensive skill that is no longer valued. Marques, with his length and shotblocking ability, could potentially be a strong defensive center, and that is still valued in today's NBA. See, e.g., Rudy Gobert, Hassan Whiteside, JaVale McGee. Obviously Marques isn't as good as those guys, but with his measurables, someone might be willing to take a chance on him in the 2nd round. The real issues are whether he's quick enough to defend in the NBA and whether he's able to better his defensive rebounding (because no NBA team would accept a 9% DR% in a center). But odd as it may seem, I think he has a better chance of sticking on an NBA roster than Jahlil does right now.

[flyingdutchdevil]

It's marketing AND the truth, though. What, our players don't really share a bond across different recruiting classes and even different generations? I've read way too many stories to the contrary.

The only slight criticism of The Brotherhood that I can see is that we're not the only school whose players love to return to campus, who hug each other before NBA games, who stay in touch with their former coaches and teammates at Duke and build relationships across recruiting classes and generations. (Although, I suppose for even that slight criticism to stick, we would have to market ourselves as the only Brotherhood out there.) Other programs definitely enjoy this as well. UNC fans will complain that we basically stole their "Carolina Family" schtick from the 80s and 90s, for example.

I've never said it wasn't the truth. Like you said, this isn't unique at all. But Duke leverages the "Brotherhood" moreso than any other school. And it's clearly working. How many recruits have now said, "I'll be joining the Brotherhood at Duke University" or something along those lines? I'd venture to say that all top 50 recruits per class in high school have heard about the "Brotherhood". It's that strong.

The concept of the Brotherhood is awesome, and fully embraced by the 2014-15 freshman class (if I'm not mistaken). But whoever decided to use this concept in recruiting pitches and externally is a genius. Coach K probably had some to do with it, but would guess it's someone on his staff or a marketeer for the Athletics Department.

[duke96]

I think it is also the perception that Duke (and K) are all about marketing and branding, that it is a "corporate" program. K's constant references to brand and his leadership books and his corporate speaking gigs all fuel this perception. In addition, Duke is miles ahead of every other program on overall program branding (especially social media presence) and Dave Bradley seems to be the genius behind it all as this article demonstrates

https://247sports.com/college/duke/Article/Behind-The-Scenes-With-Dukes-Creative-Director-David-Bradley-117664734/

Not sure how much it’s even fair for people to attribute this to K. This article says the origin of the term came from a hashtag in a Jeff Carol tweet, and then the program embraced it. Seems to me it could even have originated among the players before this and Capel latched onto it. Obviously the program (and hence K) have since supported it, and it’s a really creative and interesting way to brand the program. But it’s funny that other schools seem to imagine that K was in his office twirling his moustache trying to invent inorganically some brand to call the program...

[Billy Dat]

Not sure how much it’s even fair for people to attribute this to K. This article says the origin of the term came from a hashtag in a Jeff Carol tweet, and then the program embraced it. Seems to me it could even have originated among the players before this and Capel latched onto it. Obviously the program (and hence K) have since supported it, and it’s a really creative and interesting way to brand the program. But it’s funny that other schools seem to imagine that K was in his office twirling his moustache trying to invent inorganically some brand to call the program...

True in the specifics, but I am sure K had a big hand in even identifying/approving the role that Bradley now occupies. Back when we had the robust "Duke Hatred Tsunami" DBR thread, which was probably 10 years ago, the program was trying to figure out ways to address the negative perceptions, some of which were caused by K's post back surgery circling of the wagons where he was doing less press, etc. He, himself, started making himself more available and the Duke Blue Planet concept came soon after and it's all evolved from there.

These related comments from Vernon Carey's high school coach are extremely interesting and speak to the power of marketing in the recruiting mix:

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/high-school/article222703035.html

“I think right now the overwhelming factor with Duke,” Carr said after the announcement, “is they’re must-watch TV. They’re the hottest thing. When they had Vernon on the ticker today, that he was announcing his decision, the next thing was a promo on the documentary (ESPN+'s 'Earn Everything').

“Right now, it’s a Blue Devil world, and hopefully Vern goes there and keeps that stuff going.”

This is unrelated to marketing but a key quote in how Zion's role on the team influenced Carey's decision:

“I would be doing that kid a discredit if I was making him a back-to-the-basket post player the way the game’s changing,” Carr said. “It’s just how things come together in recruiting. If Zion’s not there, Vernon’s not going there and that’s just the way it is.”

Which provides a further tangent...when Carey said the Duke staff pitched him as a positionless player and that had a huge impact on his decision, I saw a few college hoops pundits, on Twitter, calling BS, saying we were just telling him what he wanted to hear, etc. etc.

I also saw a few disgruntled fans telling these writers to look into Zion's family's current residential situation as proof of Duke shady recruiting to which one answered:

@Sam_Vecenie
I get stuff like this all the time, because I think people misunderstand what it is I do. So as always, here is my opinion:
I do not know if they are, but I hope Zion and his family are getting paid and living lavishly for this BS year he has to spend as an amateur.

[BandAlum83]

...and that's the key right there...the players buy in. Kyrie more than anyone maybe, and he only played 11 games (or whatever it was). Regardless, if the players buy in, then it's a reality, regardless of how absurd outsiders may think it is.

You are all my brothers and sisters! Kumbaya!

[JayZee]

@Sam_Vecenie
I get stuff like this all the time, because I think people misunderstand what it is I do. So as always, here is my opinion:
I do not know if they are, but I hope Zion and his family are getting paid and living lavishly for this BS year he has to spend as an amateur.

Where there is not a free market, there will be a black market.

Now I hope (and expect) that Duke/K is not breaking any NCAA rules. But there are LOTS of benefits to being a Duke BB player in particular, and they seem really different than when I was in school decades ago. The meals these days, in particular, seem nuts. Duke took Zion to Ruths Chris steakhouse for his b-day in one of the ESPN videos. That is pricey! And the dorm rooms seem quite different than what you'd get as a normal student. Then you have all the basketball facilities/access. It's pretty crazy even assuming the kids/parents don't get actual cash payouts.

[BLPOG]

Where there is not a free market, there will be a black market.

Now I hope (and expect) that Duke/K is not breaking any NCAA rules. But there are LOTS of benefits to being a Duke BB player in particular, and they seem really different than when I was in school decades ago. The meals these days, in particular, seem nuts. Duke took Zion to Ruths Chris steakhouse for his b-day in one of the ESPN videos. That is pricey! And the dorm rooms seem quite different than what you'd get as a normal student. Then you have all the basketball facilities/access. It's pretty crazy even assuming the kids/parents don't get actual cash payouts.

Until just a few years ago, the basketball players definitely had similar dorm situations as compared to ordinary students. Freshmen lived in Bassett, for instance. I'm not sure exactly what the situation is now, but at a minimum they seem to have relocated them to the newer dorms built in the last few years, which are much nicer than the older dormitories. So the living situation might merely be on par with what students in the newer dorms experience. The difference between, for example, K4 and Craven, is very substantial.

[JayZee]

Until just a few years ago, the basketball players definitely had similar dorm situations as compared to ordinary students. Freshmen lived in Bassett, for instance. I'm not sure exactly what the situation is now, but at a minimum they seem to have relocated them to the newer dorms built in the last few years, which are much nicer than the older dormitories. So the living situation might merely be on par with what students in the newer dorms experience. The difference between, for example, K4 and Craven, is very substantial.

I saw something in one of the ESPN+ pieces where RJ and Zion were moving into their rooms, looked like right on East campus to me. But the rooms sure looked like what we would have called a double, converted into singles, totally furnished (and nicely) with a shared bathroom between the rooms. If those are the new Duke dorms for all students, I may go back to be the oldest RA on campus.

[BandAlum83]

I saw something in one of the ESPN+ pieces where RJ and Zion were moving into their rooms, looked like right on East campus to me. But the rooms sure looked like what we would have called a double, converted into singles, totally furnished (and nicely) with a shared bathroom between the rooms. If those are the new Duke dorms for all students, I may go back to be the oldest RA on campus.

My freshman dorm room (in House CC) was a double converted to a triple with metal bunk beds and a separate single bed. Three desks and dressers were somehow fit into the room as well. I think there was a visitor chair or two also.

Bathroom and showers down the hall, we had to yell "Flush!" if anyone was in the shower to warn them of the sudden drop in cold water pressure, lest they get scalded.

A far cry from the air conditioned "new dorms'" which were nearly 20 years old by then, but I was ensconced on West campus and didn't have to play the fraternity game to hope to get on West.

Memories.....

[Indoor66]

My freshman dorm room (in House CC) was a double converted to a triple with metal bunk beds and a separate single bed. Three desks and dressers were somehow fit into the room as well. I think there was a visitor chair or two also.

Bathroom and showers down the hall, we had to yell "Flush!" if anyone was in the shower to warn them of the sudden drop in cold water pressure, lest they get scalded.

A far cry from the air conditioned "new dorms'" which were nearly 20 years old by then, but I was ensconced on West campus and didn't have to play the fraternity game to hope to get on West.

Memories....

IRRC, HH was the first dorm to be remodeled and have A/C installed. That was done in the summer of 1967.

[BandAlum83]

IRRC, HH was the first dorm to be remodeled and have A/C installed. That was done in the summer of 1967.

So when I hit campus in Fall of 79, the "new dorms" were over 10 years old? Or were the new dorms newly built sometime later, and not a remodel? I think I maybe went to the new dorms only once in my 4 years.

[UrinalCake]

I saw something in one of the ESPN+ pieces where RJ and Zion were moving into their rooms, looked like right on East campus to me. But the rooms sure looked like what we would have called a double, converted into singles, totally furnished (and nicely) with a shared bathroom between the rooms. If those are the new Duke dorms for all students, I may go back to be the oldest RA on campus.

The players' rooms are definitely nicer than the average student, but nothing compared to Kansas's $12 million dorm (http://www2.kusports.com/photos/galleries/2015/oct/17/kus-new-basketball-dorm-mccarthy-hall/) built just for the basketball team, or Kentucky's similar facility (https://larrybrownsports.com/college-basketball/kentuckys-housing-chef-flat-screens/153247)

[BLPOG]

So when I hit campus in Fall of 79, the "new dorms" were over 10 years old? Or were the new dorms newly built sometime later, and not a remodel? I think I maybe went to the new dorms only once in my 4 years.

By my reckoning, there are the "old dorms," the "newer old dorms," the "older new dorms," the "newish dorms," the "newer-newish dorms," the "new dorms," and the "brand-spanking-new dorms," in addition to various periods of remodeling.

Specificity might be needed here. In my prior comment, I was only including dorms constructed in the last ten years. The first one out would be Bell Tower, I think, which at the time was the nicest dorm.

Randolph and Blackwell, which were constructed before Bell Tower, are a mixed bag. They do have climate control, but they probably tie for second worst dorms on East anyway. The square footage per person in a double is below the legal minimum for prisoners in North Carolina.

[kAzE]

No question that having Carey, Stewart and Bolden on the same team would constitute something of a frontcourt logjam. Much has been written about this elsewhere, no need to go into
speculation here, but many doubt (including me) we'll see those three together.

Wow this thread has really derailed :p

I just wanted to throw my 10 cents into the "logjam" discussion. I obviously would be thrilled if Stewart picks Duke, because too much talent is a way better problem than not enough talent, but I think the ideal scenario is completing the class with Matthew Hurt and Anthony Edwards (or Cole Anthony, but that ship has basically sailed). It's a fairly unrealistic scenario, but Edwards is a guard who can be a primary ball handler, even if he's not much of a natural play maker. That's by far the biggest hole on the team for next year if Tre Jones declares for the draft.

With Carey on board now, I think Hurt (rather than Stewart) has to be the the best fit up front with Carey. He provides the best spacing as stretch big, and I just love how smooth of a scorer he is at 6'9". Stewart is surely a better NBA prospect, but a shooting big man is just so valuable with a guy like Carey who projects to be virtually unguardable 1 on 1 in the post.

If we miss on Hurt (and we probably will), it looks like Jack White could be starting at power forward next year . . .

I just can't imagine how a lineup with Carey and either Bolden or DeLaurier could possibly work out in terms of spacing.

Maybe Javin becomes a knock down shooter, or turns into a ball handling big man like Zion, but most likely not.

[budwom]

^ yeah, that's basically the thinking...(spacing issues)..

[revmel53]

Jahlil is an offense-only player with an offensive skill that is no longer valued. Marques, with his length and shotblocking ability, could potentially be a strong defensive center, and that is still valued in today's NBA. See, e.g., Rudy Gobert, Hassan Whiteside, JaVale McGee. Obviously Marques isn't as good as those guys, but with his measurables, someone might be willing to take a chance on him in the 2nd round. The real issues are whether he's quick enough to defend in the NBA and whether he's able to better his defensive rebounding (because no NBA team would accept a 9% DR% in a center). But odd as it may seem, I think he has a better chance of sticking on an NBA roster than Jahlil does right now.

Jahlil is a throwback player. Marques has a much better upside in the NB imo.

[jimsumner]

Wow this thread has really derailed :p


If we miss on Hurt (and we probably will), it looks like Jack White could be starting at power forward next year . . .

I just can't imagine how a lineup with Carey and either Bolden or DeLaurier could possibly work out in terms of spacing.

Maybe Javin becomes a knock down shooter, or turns into a ball handling big man like Zion, but most likely not.

This makes sense if we assume Carey is a Bolden analog. But by all accounts, he has pretty decent perimeter skills, maybe better than decent, extending to the 3-point line. If this is true, then a Carey, Bolden/DeLaurier rotation creates no more spacing issues than this year's Williamson, Bolden/DeLaurier rotation.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

This makes sense if we assume Carey is a Bolden analog. But by all accounts, he has pretty decent perimeter skills, maybe better than decent, extending to the 3-point line. If this is true, then a Carey, Bolden/DeLaurier rotation creates no more spacing issues than this year's Williamson, Bolden/DeLaurier rotation.

Watching a mix tape of him on YouTube, it does show flashes of some outside shooting range - as well as the ability to put the ball on the floor from well out and finish at the rim. Competition notwithstanding, it seems like his skill set is different from either Marques' or Javin's. (admittedly small sample)

[CDu]

This makes sense if we assume Carey is a Bolden analog. But by all accounts, he has pretty decent perimeter skills, maybe better than decent, extending to the 3-point line. If this is true, then a Carey, Bolden/DeLaurier rotation creates no more spacing issues than this year's Williamson, Bolden/DeLaurier rotation.


Watching a mix tape of him on YouTube, it does show flashes of some outside shooting range - as well as the ability to put the ball on the floor from well out and finish at the rim. Competition notwithstanding, it seems like his skill set is different from either Marques' or Javin's. (admittedly small sample)

I have no doubt that Carey could share the court with Bolden... on offense. I do not see them pairing at all well defensively.

[NSDukeFan]

Watching a mix tape of him on YouTube, it does show flashes of some outside shooting range - as well as the ability to put the ball on the floor from well out and finish at the rim. Competition notwithstanding, it seems like his skill set is different from either Marques' or Javin's. (admittedly small sample)

Yeah, but that mix tape was against high school kids and not college men. Remember Zion’s mix tapes where he looked like he was a man among boys, then he came to college and...okay, maybe not the best example.

[kAzE]

This makes sense if we assume Carey is a Bolden analog. But by all accounts, he has pretty decent perimeter skills, maybe better than decent, extending to the 3-point line. If this is true, then a Carey, Bolden/DeLaurier rotation creates no more spacing issues than this year's Williamson, Bolden/DeLaurier rotation.

Even so, are we really going to have Carey running around on the perimeter a la Zion? As talented as Carey is, he's no Zion.

Carey's biggest area strength on offense is still in the low post, where he's just not going to have as much room if he's out there with a non-shooting big man.

[Billy Dat]

I have no doubt that Carey could share the court with Bolden... on offense. I do not see them pairing at all well defensively.


Even so, are we really going to have Carey running around on the perimeter a la Zion? As talented as Carey is, he's no Zion.

Carey's biggest area strength on offense is still in the low post, where he's just not going to have as much room if he's out there with a non-shooting big man.

Maybe this year's Duke M2M defense will prove to be the most recent one-and-done...

[DavidBenAkiva]

A couple of scouting reports on Vernon Carey, Jr. to mull over:

The Stepien (https://www.thestepien.com/vernon-carey/)

NBA Draft Room (http://www.nbadraftroom.com/2017/08/vernon-carey-jr.html) (written November 2017)

Both make similar observations. Carey, Jr. is a big big dude. He has no real holes in his game. He can score down low, at the midrange, and has range on him jumper out to the college 3-point line. He moves his feet extremely well for his size and will surprise people with this first step. While he is left-hand dominant at this point in his career, he looks pretty comfortable with the ball in his hands. And he passes well out of the double team. That's huge as he will absolutely receive a double team next year unless a dramatic change occurs with the Class of 2019.

He should be able to block or at least alter shots with his overall size and athletic ability in college even if he is a sort of tweener at the NBA level. On defense, there is hope that he can contain a wing or guard on the perimeter, although there is some concern about his defensive awareness. We'll have to see what he looks like on defense when he shows up on campus.

I thought the comparison from the NBA Draft Room was interesting, a high upside Kennedy Meeks or a more determined Jahlil Okafor. Meeks was a below-the-rim player that rarely operated away from the rim. Carey can and will step out as well as play above the rim. Okafor has all the physical tools to be a dominant player with a 7'5" wingspan and all those sweet, sweet low-post moves. If only the NBA still liked that in a player. For Carey, he seems more capable of surviving as a modern-day big man. While his length (a "mere" 7'0" wingspan) isn't impressive to NBA scouts, he can compensate with his skill, timing, and overall basketball IQ. Zion doesn't have ideal length, either, after all. Carey can beat you up down low, but his shooting stroke looks really good and with a reasonably quick release. I am surprised that more NBA mock drafts aren't sold on his NBA potential. The question about rim protection is valid.

When I see Carey, I see a hybrid of Marvin Bagley III and DeMarcus Cousins. He is going to get up and down the court faster than you think he should and play above the rim. And every now and then, he's going to drop a jumper on you. Like Bagley, he is physically between positions in the NBA unless he can prove that he can guard 4's and occasionally wings and guards. Like Cousins, he is going to bowl you over while displaying a surprising amount of touch and skill. He doesn't have the length of Cousins, so Carey will have to rely on quickness and soft touch instead.

There's a video from the YouTube channel, The Dime Drop (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj-532oI-zU), about Vernon Carey, Jr. that has this great term: stroftly. It was ascribed to Elton Brand back in the day. There's a combo of strong and soft in his game that is really something. Carey is going to fight for position and force his shot up onto the rim. And just as he shows this impressive display of muscle starting from his strong base through his core to his massive arms to get the ball where he wants, it will delicately land on the rim like it was placed there by a ballerina.

[WillJ]

A couple of scouting reports on Vernon Carey, Jr. to mull over:

The Stepien (https://www.thestepien.com/vernon-carey/)

NBA Draft Room (http://www.nbadraftroom.com/2017/08/vernon-carey-jr.html) (written November 2017)

Both make similar observations. Carey, Jr. is a big big dude. He has no real holes in his game. He can score down low, at the midrange, and has range on him jumper out to the college 3-point line. He moves his feet extremely well for his size and will surprise people with this first step. While he is left-hand dominant at this point in his career, he looks pretty comfortable with the ball in his hands. And he passes well out of the double team. That's huge as he will absolutely receive a double team next year unless a dramatic change occurs with the Class of 2019.

He should be able to block or at least alter shots with his overall size and athletic ability in college even if he is a sort of tweener at the NBA level. On defense, there is hope that he can contain a wing or guard on the perimeter, although there is some concern about his defensive awareness. We'll have to see what he looks like on defense when he shows up on campus.

I thought the comparison from the NBA Draft Room was interesting, a high upside Kennedy Meeks or a more determined Jahlil Okafor. Meeks was a below-the-rim player that rarely operated away from the rim. Carey can and will step out as well as play above the rim. Okafor has all the physical tools to be a dominant player with a 7'5" wingspan and all those sweet, sweet low-post moves. If only the NBA still liked that in a player. For Carey, he seems more capable of surviving as a modern-day big man. While his length (a "mere" 7'0" wingspan) isn't impressive to NBA scouts, he can compensate with his skill, timing, and overall basketball IQ. Zion doesn't have ideal length, either, after all. Carey can beat you up down low, but his shooting stroke looks really good and with a reasonably quick release. I am surprised that more NBA mock drafts aren't sold on his NBA potential. The question about rim protection is valid.

When I see Carey, I see a hybrid of Marvin Bagley III and DeMarcus Cousins. He is going to get up and down the court faster than you think he should and play above the rim. And every now and then, he's going to drop a jumper on you. Like Bagley, he is physically between positions in the NBA unless he can prove that he can guard 4's and occasionally wings and guards. Like Cousins, he is going to bowl you over while displaying a surprising amount of touch and skill. He doesn't have the length of Cousins, so Carey will have to rely on quickness and soft touch instead.

There's a video from the YouTube channel, The Dime Drop (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj-532oI-zU), about Vernon Carey, Jr. that has this great term: stroftly. It was ascribed to Elton Brand back in the day. There's a combo of strong and soft in his game that is really something. Carey is going to fight for position and force his shot up onto the rim. And just as he shows this impressive display of muscle starting from his strong base through his core to his massive arms to get the ball where he wants, it will delicately land on the rim like it was placed there by a ballerina.

Very nice summary. I like his eurostep.

[cato]

Maybe this year's Duke M2M defense will prove to be the most recent one-and-done...

Most probably. I hope it hits escape velocity before it breaks apart at the end of the year.

[cato]

I have no doubt that Carey could share the court with Bolden... on offense. I do not see them pairing at all well defensively.

Good point. Javin and Jack can defend the 4, so will suck up all meaningful minutes there.

Neither Carey nor Bolden will be defending the 4 unless the team offense with Carey and Bolden on the floor together is overwhelmingly effective. Which seems unlikely. Each will add more to the team when the other is on the bench.

So, if Marques comes back, he will be competing with Carey for a starting position. Together they will suck up a lot of the minutes at the 5.

[kshepinthehouse]

Good point. Javin and Jack can defend the 4, so will suck up all meaningful minutes there.

Neither Carey nor Bolden will be defending the 4 unless the team offense with Carey and Bolden on the floor together is overwhelmingly effective. Which seems unlikely. Each will add more to the team when the other is on the bench.

So, if Marques comes back, he will be competing with Carey for a starting position. Together they will suck up a lot of the minutes at the 5.

From what I’m reading I’m not sure that would be much of a competition. I fully expect Carey to start the moment he gets here.

[lotusland]

His game looks seens similar to Carter who was a decent 3 point shooter. Carter didn’t really stretch the floor thought. His 3 pointers were mostly unguarded. Duke tends to score points so I’m not worried so much about spacing. I agree that Carey and Bolden playing together would be a problem on defense.

[DukeFanSince1990]

Posted yesterday.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3wc3A6hxPs

[DavidBenAkiva]

Posted yesterday.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3wc3A6hxPs

Thanks for the video! There are a couple of things that I see here, in game action, that I really like.

Carey is comfortable and seems to prefer setting up on the perimeter and putting the ball on the floor. And how many steps does it take him to get from the three-point line to the rim? 2? He's going to surprise people with his first step and ability to cover long distances off the dribble.

The off-ball movement and recognition is good. He's not just posting up down low or hanging out in the paint (although he is in the paint a lot). There are moments when Scottie Barnes dumps it off to Carey as the big man is cutting to the basket. At other times, Carey gets the ball on the perimeter, pump fakes, and finds an open lane to the basket. That's high-level basketball IQ stuff for a modern big man. He's mobile.

He's a beast on the boards. Offensive rebounding is one of the best ways to ensure you have an efficient offense. Missing a shot doesn't mean that you have to end your possession. And Carey is relentless on the offensive glass.

The shooting form looks good. Obviously, this is a mix tape, but his shot looks smooth and pure. Carey is going to be at the FT line a lot, so being above average from the charity stripe is a great way to get 20+ points a night while fouling out the opposing frontcourt.

Corey Evans of Rivals had a write-up from City of Palms and had this to say (https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/city-of-palms-tuesday-evans-notebook) about Carey:


What If Carey Said No?

That is not a question that Coach K wanted to answer. Sure, they remain involved for Isaiah Stewart but I said it at the time and I cannot emphasize it further, Vernon Carey’s commitment is one of the more crucial ones that the Blue Devils have picked up in recent years.

Am I saying that Carey is as good as Marvin Bagley, Jayson Tatum, RJ Barrett, or Zion Williamson? No, I am not ready to start that discussion but with the glaring hole that was the likely to be tissue thin frontcourt in Durham next season, Carey is just what the doctor ordered.

Quicker off of his feet compared to this summer but still a dominant and efficient interior cog, the nation’s top-ranked senior made his first eight two-point field goal attempts and nearly scratched out a double-double by half-time. Playing more inside-out, if Carey sticks that mantra, his transition to Duke should be that much more seamless and exactly what Coach K will be looking for upon his enrollment.

I tend to agree with Evans here, to a certain degree. With Carey in tow, Duke is a Top 10 team entering the season and maybe even Top 5. If the team can figure out the PG situation, then we are talking about a potential #1 team.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Here's a nice video from City of Palms with Vernon Carey going up against future Tar Heel Armando Bacot. I think you'll notice that Carey is a lot more comfortable putting the ball on the floor, operating in space, and taking jumpers. He has a similar or even bigger frame than Bacot but moves much quicker.

Bacot, for his part, is a traditional center. UNC sorely needs rim protection, and he might be able to provide a little. You don't see much of Carey playing defense here. It's a highlight video, after all. The jury is still out in that department.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbsqI7KPH5Q&feature=youtu.be

[CDu]

Here's a nice video from City of Palms with Vernon Carey going up against future Tar Heel Armando Bacot. I think you'll notice that Carey is a lot more comfortable putting the ball on the floor, operating in space, and taking jumpers. He has a similar or even bigger frame than Bacot but moves much quicker.

Bacot, for his part, is a traditional center. UNC sorely needs rim protection, and he might be able to provide a little. You don't see much of Carey playing defense here. It's a highlight video, after all. The jury is still out in that department.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbsqI7KPH5Q&feature=youtu.be

I have seen only one 275lb guy who was a capable perimeter defender (Zion). Carey May have some perimeter-ish offensive skills in his toolbox. But he is a post player defensively.

[proelitedota]

Vernon Carey has one of the biggest heads for a basketball player that I've seen. Wendell was also like that.

Hopefully that translates to basketball IQ and academics like it did for Wendell. :o

[DavidBenAkiva]

I have seen only one 275lb guy who was a capable perimeter defender (Zion). Carey May have some perimeter-ish offensive skills in his toolbox. But he is a post player defensively.

Sure. No one is suggesting that he is going to check the opposing team's shooting guards for long stretches of a game. He's probably going to match up on opposing centers and forwards. The question is whether he has the proper defensive awareness and foot speed to guard a stretch 4 or a bigger wing when teams play a 4-guard lineup.

I have also seen a few interviews that he is closer to 260 lbs. and hopes to get down to 250 before his freshman season.

[CDu]

Sure. No one is suggesting that he is going to check the opposing team's shooting guards for long stretches of a game. He's probably going to match up on opposing centers and forwards. The question is whether he has the proper defensive awareness and foot speed to guard a stretch 4 or a bigger wing when teams play a 4-guard lineup.

I have also seen a few interviews that he is closer to 260 lbs. and hopes to get down to 250 before his freshman season.

He is not playing PF. He will be playing C.

[DavidBenAkiva]

He is not playing PF. He will be playing C.

I thought Duke played positionless basketball?

[CDu]

I thought Duke played positionless basketball?

Nope. Just lip service. Always has been. Or have you never heard Coach K talking about PGs? Coach K doesn’t want guys to mentally limit themselves, but you can be darn sure he cares about whether guys can defend someone on the other team.

We won’t be seeing Bolden and Carey share the floor much, if at all, next year. It just isn’t happening. The game is trending smaller and quicker. Two guys who are not overly quick and not comfortable defending on the perimeter are going to struggle if paired defensively.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Vernon Carey, Jr. and his high school team matched up against one of the top high school teams in the nation last night on ESPN2. Carey was a standout in the game, scoring 26 points in the 70-62 loss to Sunrise Christian Academy. Sunrise features the top center in the class of 2020, N'Faly Dante. Dante is a big kid, about 6'11" with a 7'6" wingspan. Carey completely dominated in the early going, scoring 10 points and racking up fouls against Dante. He was a little less involved throughout the rest of the game. There was one sequence in the 4th quarter in which Carey made a few great plays, blocked a shot, ran to the rim, and even stepped out to nail an open 3. In general, though, he did most of his damage early on.


I'm going to preface this next statement by stating that Zion is a unique player that is in no way comparable to any past or present player for Duke. But I see Carey playing a similar role at Duke next year as Zion. By that, I mean that we will see Carey on the perimeter as often as he posts up down low. And Carey is going to surprise people with how quick he is with the ball in his hands. One thing that Carey does a lot is spin in the lane. He creates a lot of space with his size and quickness, which allows him to take a layup or shoot a short jumper. He's in the air before you realize what is happening. We saw that a lot from Marvin Bagley III. MB3 did that with his quickness and vertical movement. Carey isn't as quick or has as explosive of a second leap. Instead, he finds his way past defenders, similar to Zion, and then is at the rim with a finger roll or jam before the defense can adjust. And this was against high major prospects. As mentioned, Dante is a Top 10 or 15 player in the junior class and Carey completely dominated.


I don't think Carey will be quite as effective with the spin move in college as quicker and smarter defenders will swipe at the ball. But Carey can post up just as effectively as he can take a post player off the dribble. He's got similarities to Okafor, Bagley, and Zion in his game. The footwork is fantastic. The quickness and explosiveness is there. He does appear disengaged from time to time throughout the game. We'll see how he looks with coaching from Duke. There's a lot to like.

[sagegrouse]

Nope. Just lip service. Always has been. Or have you never heard Coach K talking about PGs? Coach K doesn’t want guys to mentally limit themselves, but you can be darn sure he cares about whether guys can defend someone on the other team.

We won’t be seeing Bolden and Carey share the floor much, if at all, next year. It just isn’t happening. The game is trending smaller and quicker. Two guys who are not overly quick and not comfortable defending on the perimeter are going to struggle if paired defensively.

We'll mark this down as a prediction and see what happens, assuming Marques returns, as I expect he will.

[dukelifer]

Vernon Carey, Jr. and his high school team matched up against one of the top high school teams in the nation last night on ESPN2. Carey was a standout in the game, scoring 26 points in the 70-62 loss to Sunrise Christian Academy. Sunrise features the top center in the class of 2020, N'Faly Dante. Dante is a big kid, about 6'11" with a 7'6" wingspan. Carey completely dominated in the early going, scoring 10 points and racking up fouls against Dante. He was a little less involved throughout the rest of the game. There was one sequence in the 4th quarter in which Carey made a few great plays, blocked a shot, ran to the rim, and even stepped out to nail an open 3. In general, though, he did most of his damage early on.


I'm going to preface this next statement by stating that Zion is a unique player that is in no way comparable to any past or present player for Duke. But I see Carey playing a similar role at Duke next year as Zion. By that, I mean that we will see Carey on the perimeter as often as he posts up down low. And Carey is going to surprise people with how quick he is with the ball in his hands. One thing that Carey does a lot is spin in the lane. He creates a lot of space with his size and quickness, which allows him to take a layup or shoot a short jumper. He's in the air before you realize what is happening. We saw that a lot from Marvin Bagley III. MB3 did that with his quickness and vertical movement. Carey isn't as quick or has as explosive of a second leap. Instead, he finds his way past defenders, similar to Zion, and then is at the rim with a finger roll or jam before the defense can adjust. And this was against high major prospects. As mentioned, Dante is a Top 10 or 15 player in the junior class and Carey completely dominated.


I don't think Carey will be quite as effective with the spin move in college as quicker and smarter defenders will swipe at the ball. But Carey can post up just as effectively as he can take a post player off the dribble. He's got similarities to Okafor, Bagley, and Zion in his game. The footwork is fantastic. The quickness and explosiveness is there. He does appear disengaged from time to time throughout the game. We'll see how he looks with coaching from Duke. There's a lot to like.

I expect he will have his way in college. Just not that many skilled big bodies in college ball these days. He may be less capable at the next level. I saw a mock draft that had him late in the first or even the second round. Clearly a lot will change but his future will depend on his motor and defensive chops. He will need to show that in his first and likely only year at Duke.

[lotusland]

We'll mark this down as a prediction and see what happens, assuming Marques returns, as I expect he will.

Bolden is playing well and Carey is a talented scorer who will likely struggle in M2M defense as a freshman and have some foul trouble so there should be plenty of minutes for both at the 5 spot and perhaps the two can play together occasionally in a zone defense with Carey as the stretch 4. If Tre magically returns next year I think it’s another championship caliber team assuming Moore and Carey are studs as advertised.

[DavidBenAkiva]

I expect he will have his way in college. Just not that many skilled big bodies in college ball these days. He may be less capable at the next level. I saw a mock draft that had him late in the first or even the second round. Clearly a lot will change but his future will depend on his motor and defensive chops. He will need to show that in his first and likely only year at Duke.

I don't get these projections. Carey seems like the type of modern NBA 5 man. While he does not have elite length, he has the size, shooting, and quickness that you think would be en vogue for most teams. Just the fact that he is comfortable shooting the ball as a high schooler is impressive. Carter and Bagley had serious questions about their jumpers before they showed up at Duke. Carey is ahead of those two at a similar stage of development. Any prospect has a lot of questions. It just seems that, for a guy that has consistently been among the top 5 for his class, why wouldn't he be among the top NBA prospects?

[dukelifer]

I don't get these projections. Carey seems like the type of modern NBA 5 man. While he does not have elite length, he has the size, shooting, and quickness that you think would be en vogue for most teams. Just the fact that he is comfortable shooting the ball as a high schooler is impressive. Carter and Bagley had serious questions about their jumpers before they showed up at Duke. Carey is ahead of those two at a similar stage of development. Any prospect has a lot of questions. It just seems that, for a guy that has consistently been among the top 5 for his class, why wouldn't he be among the top NBA prospects?

Not all classes are equal. I was surprised to see him that low but his game may not be built for the modern NBA. He may be Isaiah Hicks at the next level- a solid player with a big body- but not dominant in any facet of the game. We shall see how he develops. He could be a surprise.

[CDu]

We'll mark this down as a prediction and see what happens, assuming Marques returns, as I expect he will.

I will put one caveat: unless we go back to the zone.

[DavidBenAkiva]

So, uh, Vernon Carey, Jr. has a younger brother named Jaylen. He's got the family genes - 6'7" 260 pounds in 8th grade. He'll be a high schooler next year.

https://twitter.com/Ballislife/status/1116361009323597824

[devildeac]

So, uh, Vernon Carey, Jr. has a younger brother named Jaylen. He's got the family genes - 6'7" 260 pounds in 8th grade. He'll be a high schooler next year.

https://twitter.com/Ballislife/status/1116361009323597824

Have we offered yet? Is he going to re-classify?

:rolleyes:;)

[flyingdutchdevil]

Have we offered yet? Is he going to re-classify?

:rolleyes:;)

Me thinks he'll red shirt for another 4 years. But they may be Joey Baker red shirts so he'll exhaust eligibility by the time he gets to Duke...

[JasonEvans]

Quick, someone start a Class of 2023 recruiting thread.

-Jason "the OAD rule will likely be gone by then, so the top prospects may opt to skip college altogether" Evans

[Pghdukie]

Will Jaylen Carey be in the same recruiting class as Brony James (LeBron's son). If so - now your talking about a recruiting class. Plus by then the BBB brand will be long gone!

[proelitedota]

Cross post from another thread.


https://youtu.be/JpcRIKkrLUc