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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 84, Hartford 54 Post-Game Thread



JBDuke
12-05-2018, 07:57 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

OldPhiKap
12-05-2018, 07:58 PM
Defense —> offense

weezie
12-05-2018, 07:59 PM
Freshmen! Gotta love them and be patient.

proelitedota
12-05-2018, 08:01 PM
RJ with 15 rebounds. Dadgummit.

duke4ever19
12-05-2018, 08:01 PM
Color me confused about the "Our defense is a big problem" posts in the pre-game/in-game thread.

As I said in that thread, I don't see the correlation between this game and that particular concern, but I readily admit that I'm not an expert on defense and others might be able to show me some statistics or in-game tendencies that are a bad sign for this year's squad.

Old Dukie
12-05-2018, 08:01 PM
Defense —> offense

Totally agree....good thing this was Hartford.

Tripping William
12-05-2018, 08:03 PM
Color me confused about the "Our defense is a big problem" posts in the pre-game/in-game thread.

As I said in that thread, I don't see the correlation between this game and that particular concern, but I readily admit that I'm not an expert on defense and others might be able to show me some statistics or in-game tendencies that are a bad sign for this year's squad.

Much of that was sarcasm, at least from pfrduke, OPK and me, sparked by a poster basically saying that OAD’s cannot play an effective m2m.

duke4ever19
12-05-2018, 08:04 PM
Totally agree...good thing this was Hartford.

But we yielded only 24 points at the half and only 30 in the second half?

What am I missing here? I thought the defense looked pretty darn good. Good enough for Kenpom #7 in defense.

Edit: Thanks, Tripping William. Perhaps I misread sarcasm for sincerity. If so, that's on me for not reading context clues correctly.

dukebluesincebirth
12-05-2018, 08:05 PM
Zion off the backboard to RJ!!!! 😮😮

SCMatt33
12-05-2018, 08:05 PM
Hartford played an incredible game there and their coach had a great plan. He pretty much gambled that he could pack the paint and hope Duke missed open three’s and that worked for a half and a few fortuitous plays early in the 2nd capped by getting a rebound after an and 1, then hitting a 3 for a 5 point trip. Even after Carrol fouled out they still kept it close for a minute or two, but the fatigue set in real fast. I thought it actually wasn’t the worst idea for them to chuck some of the three’s they did once it stretched to about 15, but they didn’t hit enough of them to stem the tide and Duke’s athletes just took over to a ridiculous degree.

Proud of Dukes players to keep plugging away in the first half even there were mistakes and missed shots. They mostly played solid D and never let a couple bad plays turn into a run for Hartford. I think the closest thing to a real run Duke game up was the single 5 point trip.

OldPhiKap
12-05-2018, 08:06 PM
Color me confused about the "Our defense is a big problem" posts in the pre-game/in-game thread.

As I said in that thread, I don't see the correlation between this game and that particular concern, but I readily admit that I'm not an expert on defense and others might be able to show me some statistics or in-game tendencies that are a bad sign for this year's squad.


Totally agree...good thing this was Hartford.

Old Dukie’s post history is short, and almost universally negative. Check for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

Old Dukie
12-05-2018, 08:07 PM
Color me confused about the "Our defense is a big problem" posts in the pre-game/in-game thread.

As I said in that thread, I don't see the correlation between this game and that particular concern, but I readily admit that I'm not an expert on defense and others might be able to show me some statistics or in-game tendencies that are a bad sign for this year's squad.

You don't need to be an expert...just watch the facial expressions on our OAD's after they have missed a defensive assignment. You'll see it more in games against stiff competition.

arnie
12-05-2018, 08:07 PM
Zion off the backboard to RJ!!!! 😮😮

Javin’s best game at Duke. Great 5 or 6 blocks, no mistakes, no TOs and he finished at the rim.

duke4ever19
12-05-2018, 08:07 PM
Old Dukie’s post history is short, and almost universally negative. Check for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

Well, that makes more sense. Otherwise I was going to be double-checking my prescription medication. :)

DukieInBrasil
12-05-2018, 08:09 PM
great game from RJ, looks like he's figuring out how to get and take better shots. Zion also had a good game. Javin had himself a statistically great game and, well, might it be time for Big 'Ques to not start anymore? Bolden grabbed 1 rebound. 1 solitary rebound. He doesn't have to score a lot to be valuable, but rebounding is right at the top of things he needs to be doing to add value to the team, and he just doesn't do it. As mentioned in the podcast and elsewhere, his DReb% was already historically low, and only went down tonight.
Aside from those observations, it looks like Duke really struggled from 3 today, with only RJ doing anything that wasn't terrible (3-4). People not named RJ broke into 2 groups: those that made a 3 (2-14) and those that didn't (0-9). Good thing that shooting performance came against a team of the quality of a Hartford. Good thing that Duke played a team like Hartford during Finals too.

DUKEinFW
12-05-2018, 08:10 PM
Shoot the average on 3pt shots, most of which were wide open, and we are up by 20 at half. Convert a few other close in shots and missed dunks and it's a blowout in the first half. It was just a poor shooting first half

Ian
12-05-2018, 08:11 PM
Defense was great, and the offense was fine too. Considering we shot 5-26 from 3 including 1-9 for Reddish, many of which were wide open. Had we hit our normal 36% we'd have hit between 9 to 10 out of 26. We got the looks we wanted, just was a tough night shooting.

Old Dukie
12-05-2018, 08:15 PM
Old Dukie’s post history is short, and almost universally negative. Check for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

Old Dukie just telling it like it is. If we can't win it all in 2019 with this group, it'll never happen until DEFENSE is re-established at a higher level. Watch Michigan play and you'll see what I mean.

Old Dukie
12-05-2018, 08:17 PM
Defense was great, and the offense was fine too. Considering we shot 5-26 from 3 including 1-9 for Reddish, many of which were wide open. Had we hit our normal 36% we'd have hit between 9 to 10 out of 26. We got the looks we wanted, just was a tough night shooting.

What is Reddish's shooting % on the year?

accfanfrom1970
12-05-2018, 08:18 PM
Thought we should have gone to the small lineup sooner since we were switching everything. Felt like that was our best lineup and really pushed the lead out.

Old Dukie
12-05-2018, 08:21 PM
great game from RJ, looks like he's figuring out how to get and take better shots. Zion also had a good game. Javin had himself a statistically great game and, well, might it be time for Big 'Ques to not start anymore? Bolden grabbed 1 rebound. 1 solitary rebound. He doesn't have to score a lot to be valuable, but rebounding is right at the top of things he needs to be doing to add value to the team, and he just doesn't do it. As mentioned in the podcast and elsewhere, his DReb% was already historically low, and only went down tonight.
Aside from those observations, it looks like Duke really struggled from 3 today, with only RJ doing anything that wasn't terrible (3-4). People not named RJ broke into 2 groups: those that made a 3 (2-14) and those that didn't (0-9). Good thing that shooting performance came against a team of the quality of a Hartford. Good thing that Duke played a team like Hartford during Finals too.

Yeah, Bolden is just being Bolden - a project that may never be completed.

Ian
12-05-2018, 08:22 PM
What is Reddish's shooting % on the year?

He came into the game shooting 43% from 3. Obviously after a 1-9 game he's shooting less than that now on the season.

accfanfrom1970
12-05-2018, 08:23 PM
10 blocks, 15 steals, they had to have 20+ turnovers. Defense was good, just couldn’t make a 3.

Tripping William
12-05-2018, 08:23 PM
Old Dukie just telling it like it is. If we can't win it all in 2019 with this group, it'll never happen until DEFENSE is re-established at a higher level. Watch Michigan play and you'll see what I mean.

Ikr. The Wolverines’ facial expressions in obliterating unranked Northwestern last night were a sight to behold indeed.

Old Dukie
12-05-2018, 08:24 PM
Well, that makes more sense. Otherwise I was going to be double-checking my prescription medication. :)

If you still feel this team doesn't need to play exceptional D, you'll need more than meds.

duke4ever19
12-05-2018, 08:24 PM
Old Dukie just telling it like it is. If we can't win it all in 2019 with this group, it'll never happen until DEFENSE is re-established at a higher level. Watch Michigan play and you'll see what I mean.

So we need to play the equivalent of the current Kenpom No.1 defense (86.6) every year to win a championship?

To this point, Duke is ranked #7 (90.8).

The 2015 Championship team ended the year at #11 (92.0).

In 2010 we won the natty and finished #5 (87.7).

In 2002 we finished at #1 in both offense and defense (86.8) and lost in the Sweet 16 to Indiana.

Tell me again about how we need to play like Michigan (at the moment) on defense to win titles.

Old Dukie
12-05-2018, 08:26 PM
He came into the game shooting 43% from 3. Obviously after a 1-9 game he's shooting less than that now on the season.

What about overall %? Anyone know?

Old Dukie
12-05-2018, 08:33 PM
So we need to play the equivalent of the current Kenpom No.1 defense (86.6) every year to win a championship?

To this point, Duke is ranked #7 (90.8).

The 2015 Championship team ended the year at #11 (92.0).

In 2010 we won the natty and finished #5 (87.7).

In 2002 we finished at #1 in both offense and defense (86.8) and lost in the Sweet 16 to Indiana.

Tell me again about how we need to play like Michigan (at the moment) on defense to win titles.

Simple....to win a title with OAD's, you need to play defense at a level of intensity & consistency.....somewhere in top 5 would do it!

OldPhiKap
12-05-2018, 08:35 PM
Old Dukie just telling it like it is. If we can't win it all in 2019 with this group, it'll never happen until DEFENSE is re-established at a higher level. Watch Michigan play and you'll see what I mean.

Ooh, third person referential. Avoids the whole “I” - “me” conundrum. Smart.

HereBeforeCoachK
12-05-2018, 08:36 PM
Old Dukie just telling it like it is. If we can't win it all in 2019 with this group, it'll never happen until DEFENSE is re-established at a higher level. Watch Michigan play and you'll see what I mean.

The game is an offensive game now......and with Michigan.....with all their returnees from a run to the finals, if they were not ahead of us at this point, something would be wrong with them.

pfrduke
12-05-2018, 08:36 PM
Simple...to win a title with OAD's, you need to play defense at a level of intensity & consistency....somewhere in top 5 would do it!

This is ridiculous. Only 3 of the last 10 champions have had a top 5 defense. Neither of the two OAD teams to win championships (UK 12, Duke 15) had a top 5 defense. You’re just making things up to fit your preconceived narrative that you don’t like one and dones.

BandAlum83
12-05-2018, 08:39 PM
This is ridiculous. Only 3 of the last 10 champions have had a top 5 defense. Neither of the two OAD teams to win championships (UK 12, Duke 15) had a top 5 defense. You’re just making things up to fit your preconceived narrative that you don’t like one and dones.

Please don't feed the Trolls.

MrPoon
12-05-2018, 08:42 PM
I had to listen to a good chunk of the game but the parts I saw looked like a team locked in on D.
Especially Tre, I don’t recall even Tyus getting that kind of on the ball preasure. But I thought that was a good traight. Freshman teams often let a poor shooting night impact their defense. Not tonight.

I’d like the staff to help Cam find a more consistent option B other than just shoot 3. I don’t mind him taking open shots even if he’s off, but it seems that when he drives to score, he looses the ball a lot. A good ball fake could open up the D for some more options, especially for him at the rim, if he’d finish. He’s got a crazy high ceiling but it seems that he has the most work to do of the four freshman trying to find his fit. Not a criticism, I’m just foaming at the mouth hoping to see more of what I think he can be.

duke4ever19
12-05-2018, 08:46 PM
Simple...to win a title with OAD's, you need to play defense at a level of intensity & consistency....somewhere in top 5 would do it!

Except if you are 2011-12 Kentucky, which won the title ranked exactly where Duke currently is . . #7.

Okay, got it.

SorryForHot
12-05-2018, 08:46 PM
Thank Baby Jesus we played Hartford tonight. You would think playing some basketball would be a nice break from exams but it took our guys 30 mins to warm up and start having some fun. Those looks from K during the timeouts said a lot about how that game was playing out. I'm a little worried about the long layoff ahead and Tx Tech looming. Anyways, a win is a win and they won by 30 so its hard to complain too much. Let's hope for a big win tomorrow!!!!

GGLC
12-05-2018, 08:49 PM
In 2002 we finished at #1 in both offense and defense (86.8) and lost in the Sweet 16 to Indiana.


Boozer was fouled!

(...I'm still bitter about that)

lotusland
12-05-2018, 08:51 PM
Good games all for Barrett, Zion,Tre and Javin. We need better shooting from Cam. No doubt they were trying to pull Bolden out but I actually thought he moved his feet and recovered pretty well. He got a block on a perimeter shot almost another on a drive but was called for a foul. It looked like Duke wanted to take advantage of Bolden’s size early on offense but he was a little to passive and indecisive. Javin played well and was the better option tonight. Bolden will be needed more when we play teams with more size.

bedeviled
12-05-2018, 08:54 PM
You would think playing some basketball would be a nice break from exams but it took our guys 30 mins to warm up and start having some funWinning in the classroom and on the court. Hopefully, we've now laid to rest that pesky "Hartford of the South" moniker

Old Dukie
12-05-2018, 08:59 PM
Please don't feed the Trolls.

Oh, please do....they're starving for some understanding of what happens when die-hard Dukies just don't get it!

devilsadvocate85
12-05-2018, 09:03 PM
This team is going to give up some backdoor layups and open 3’s at times. They are not being coached to keep themselves between their man and the basket at all times. It comes down to understanding your personnel and coaching. We pressure the ball, deny passes and overplay; relying on our athleticism to make up for mistakes. We do this because we are almost unstoppable when we create live ball turnovers and rushed shots. If only our head coach had any idea how to coach.

pfrduke
12-05-2018, 09:05 PM
Oh, please do...they're starving for some understanding of what happens when die-hard Dukies just don't get it!

Right. Heaven forbid anyone suggest this team, which is 7th nationally in defense and coming off of a three-game stretch in which we’ve allowed 172 points on 234 possessions, can play good man to man defense. After all, they have freshmen, and everyone knows freshmen have no idea what to do in a man-to-man.

OldPhiKap
12-05-2018, 09:08 PM
Right. Heaven forbid anyone suggest this team, which is 7th nationally in defense and coming off of a three-game stretch in which we’ve allowed 172 points on 234 possessions, can play good man to man defense. After all, they have freshmen, and everyone knows freshmen have no idea what to do in a man-to-man.

Dare I say . . . It’s over.

Old Dukie
12-05-2018, 09:14 PM
This team is going to give up some backdoor layups and open 3’s at times. They are not being coached to keep themselves between their man and the basket at all times. It comes down to understanding your personnel and coaching. We pressure the ball, deny passes and overplay; relying on our athleticism to make up for mistakes. We do this because we are almost unstoppable when we create live ball turnovers and rushed shots. If only our head coach had any idea how to coach.

Understanding our personnel (OAD's) means admitting they'll always struggle with man to man D. Employing Zone D at key times will mitigate that problem.

pfrduke
12-05-2018, 09:16 PM
Understanding our personnel (OAD's) means admitting they'll always struggle with man to man D. Employing Zone D at key times will mitigate that problem.

Zone defense is a terrible idea for this team. We have a roster full of rangy, athletic wings. They should be doing exactly what they’re doing, which is harassing passing lanes, trapping ball handlers, speeding the game up, etc. Dare I say, playing traditional Duke defense.

It’s so weird that you’re flagging defense as the issue on this team when this is the closest our defense has been to the heyday of the early 2000s in a long time.

OldPhiKap
12-05-2018, 09:18 PM
This is my favorite thread since the “can we beat the Cleveland Cavs” thread.


pfrduke’s rsponse above is so correct it hurts. This team should run. I’ll give up some layups on backdoors to get the runouts on rebounds and steals this team can generate.

devildeac
12-05-2018, 09:19 PM
So we need to play the equivalent of the current Kenpom No.1 defense (86.6) every year to win a championship?

To this point, Duke is ranked #7 (90.8).

The 2015 Championship team ended the year at #11 (92.0).

In 2010 we won the natty and finished #5 (87.7).

In 2002 we finished at #1 in both offense and defense (86.8) and lost in the Sweet 16 to Indiana.

Tell me again about how we need to play like Michigan (at the moment) on defense to win titles.

Boozer was fouled.

"Eggs" Benedict sucks. And he was a lousy catcher, too.

Yea, too soon.

;)

jipops
12-05-2018, 09:20 PM
I don’t feel like either of these last 2 games has given us anything we can actually discern regarding where this team is right now. We already know we’re not an especially strong perimeter shooting team. But tonight we were just plain cold. I think Hartford slowing the pace had something to do with that. We weren’t in a normal rhythm on offense as a result.

I will say this though, Javin played some very tough D tonight. Now can he do anything resembling that against ACC level competition? We’ll see.

CDu
12-05-2018, 09:20 PM
What about overall %? Anyone know?

After tonight, 40% overall and 39% from 3. With 3s making up over 60% of his attempts. TS% close to 60% and eFG% ~55%. So, just fine. Room for improvement sure. But just fine.

BLPOG
12-05-2018, 09:22 PM
This is my favorite thread since the “can we beat the Cleveland Cavs” thread.

"You must spread some Comments around before commenting on OldPhiKap again."

OK, now I know I'm the guy who mentions this point a lot, but I really need to emphasize it this time. I've been very promiscuous lately and only given OPK propers once (I think) in the last month or two. We need some <Roy vocalization> dadgum transparency </Roy vocalization> with respect to sporking. A one-spork increase in the limit could do wonders for board morale!

Old Dukie
12-05-2018, 09:22 PM
Right. Heaven forbid anyone suggest this team, which is 7th nationally in defense and coming off of a three-game stretch in which we’ve allowed 172 points on 234 possessions, can play good man to man defense. After all, they have freshmen, and everyone knows freshmen have no idea what to do in a man-to-man.

LOL....three games against pretty sorry competition. And these aren't just frosh - they're OAD freshmen looking to constantly improve their NBA draft status...think about that a bit.

BLPOG
12-05-2018, 09:25 PM
LOL...three games against pretty sorry competition. And these aren't just frosh - they're OAD freshmen looking to constantly improve their NBA draft status...think about that a bit.

I have a question for you. If you were a Duke undergraduate, what would you be doing right now?

devildeac
12-05-2018, 09:27 PM
This is my favorite thread since the “can we beat the Cleveland Cavs” thread.


pfrduke’s rsponse above is so correct it hurts. This team should run. I’ll give up some layups on backdoors to get the runouts on rebounds and steals this team can generate.

You forgot 10 blocks. ;)

Old Dukie
12-05-2018, 09:27 PM
After tonight, 40% overall and 39% from 3. With 3s making up over 60% of his attempts. TS% close to 60% and eFG% ~55%. So, just fine. Room for improvement sure. But just fine.

THX....yes, room for improvement. I'll bet FT % is lacking as well.

Acymetric
12-05-2018, 09:27 PM
So, I'm not overly concerned about our defense, but maybe it is a little early in the season to be hanging our analysis on KenPom ratings that are virtually meaningless at this point in the season?

OldPhiKap
12-05-2018, 09:27 PM
And these aren't just frosh - they're OAD freshmen looking to constantly improve their NBA draft status...think about that a bit.

I don’t mean to be rude, but ARE YOU EVEN WATCHING THIS TEAM? This is one of the most unselfish teams we have had in a long time.

This is parody, right?

pfrduke
12-05-2018, 09:29 PM
LOL...three games against pretty sorry competition. And these aren't just frosh - they're OAD freshmen looking to constantly improve their NBA draft status...think about that a bit.

Oh, ok. 19 year olds can play defense but 19 years olds that want to play in the NBA have no interest in playing defense (all visual and statistical evidence from this team to the contrary). Got it. I have suddenly seen the light.

Old Dukie
12-05-2018, 09:29 PM
I have a question for you. If you were a Duke undergraduate, what would you be doing right now?

Celebrating another win.

DukieInBrasil
12-05-2018, 09:30 PM
LOL...three games against pretty sorry competition. And these aren't just frosh - they're OAD freshmen looking to constantly improve their NBA draft status...think about that a bit.

you apparently don't understand defensive rankings then. Also, Indiana is not "pretty sorry competition". CDu, Kedsy, or JasonEvans can explain defensive efficiency rankings better than i can, but a lot of it has to do with points per possession, and how well did Duke do in that regard relative to what other teams would have done to that opponent. It's not just the raw points allowed by Duke in a game. Duke has done a relatively better job on defense vs. its schedule than only 6 other teams would have done.
Anyway, your arguments have been refuted by people who know what they're talking about, you insist on your points or make up new ones that get refuted, and continue to insist on something (OAD Fr. can't play D) that is not being borne out by the data.

Saratoga2
12-05-2018, 09:31 PM
Hartford, a senior laden team, provided another blueprint for giving Duke a tough game. Slow it down, pack the defense in and play zone. Until Duke shows it can hit 3's this is probably the most effective game plan against us. Our 3 point shooting on mostly wide open shots was terrible tonight, perhaps because of prepping for exams. Cam Reddish certainly didn't play like a top NBA propect and AOC was missing his 3's by a lot.

Yale will be much more difficult on Saturday. Maybe our guys need to practice their 3 point shooting.

pfrduke
12-05-2018, 09:32 PM
So, I'm not overly concerned about our defense, but maybe it is a little early in the season to be hanging our analysis on KenPom ratings that are virtually meaningless at this point in the season?

Fine. Ignore the rating. We’ve played 9 games. 6 of those we’ve held teams under a point per possession. That’s really good. Two others have been only very slightly over 1 ppp - those were top 20 opponents Kentucky and Auburn. Only Gonzaga could be considered a bad defensive game.

Why are we complaining about this team’s defense when everything about the first 9 games suggests it’s pretty darn strong?

OldPhiKap
12-05-2018, 09:33 PM
Hartford, a senior laden team, provided another blueprint for giving Duke a tough game. Slow it down, pack the defense in and play zone. Until Duke shows it can hit 3's this is probably the most effective game plan against us. Our 3 point shooting on mostly wide open shots was terrible tonight, perhaps because of prepping for exams. Cam Reddish certainly didn't play like a top NBA propect and AOC was missing his 3's by a lot.

Yale will be much more difficult on Saturday. Maybe our guys need to practice their 3 point shooting.

To me, this is the legitimate concern to take away from the game.

JetpackJesus
12-05-2018, 09:34 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpjpXMFPshSYGLm/giphy.gif

OldPhiKap
12-05-2018, 09:35 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpjpXMFPshSYGLm/giphy.gif

Zion killed a man with a trident.

BandAlum83
12-05-2018, 09:35 PM
Fine. Ignore the rating. We’ve played 9 games. 6 of those we’ve held teams under a point per possession. That’s really good. Two others have been only very slightly over 1 ppp - those were top 20 opponents Kentucky and Auburn. Only Gonzaga could be considered a bad defensive game.

Why are we complaining about this team’s defense when everything about the first 9 games suggests it’s pretty darn strong?

I would refine the statement to say the Gonzaga game was one miserable half of defense. The second half wasn't so bad, although I did see the statistical splits.

BLPOG
12-05-2018, 09:38 PM
Celebrating another win.

Wrong.

It's Wednesday night, which means that if you have the appropriate combination of poor taste and bad judgment, you'd be at Shooters II. More likely, you'd be studying for finals. I'm pretty sure every member of the team has final exams on the mind right now, and I'm more than willing to credit some first-half sub-par performance to that.

As for defense, this team seems the most advanced in terms of skill (this early in the year) of the real OAD-era at Duke*, and I'd argue they are also generally putting in greater effort on that front. That said, IMO (where I never even pretended an H was involved), the great thing about this team is that they are so good offensively that it will provide them a buffer to make mistakes defensively, which means Coach K has time to play them in a man-to-man defense without "capitulating" (as he put it a few years ago) to zone for the sake of wins.

The team only played (kind of) poor defense, by my reckoning, during the second half of the first half tonight. Given other considerations, I'm not going to use those 10 minutes to call this team bad defensively or make negative predictions about their potential.

*Probably even better than 2015, when Justise, Tyus, and Jahlil were well-acquainted with each others' play due to prior experience. That team, though it managed well enough on defense - especially after K used the zone here and there - did not have a typical Duke defense, and they won a national championship.

CDu
12-05-2018, 09:40 PM
THX...yes, room for improvement. I'll bet FT % is lacking as well.

Nope, 79% from the FT line. Best on the team among guys who actually get to the line. Of the things to question about Reddish, shooting is probably last on the list. He is a terrific shooter.

And his shooting in other areas isn’t “lacking” at all.

devildeac
12-05-2018, 09:41 PM
This is just filthy:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESqLwTmOjFg

OldPhiKap
12-05-2018, 09:42 PM
I’ll note too that we are playing a lot of 1-2-2 and 1-3-1 press, which has m2m and zone concepts. We are long, tall and quick. I’m more than happy with the defensive results so far for such a young team, far advanced from where I projected.

Old Dukie
12-05-2018, 09:42 PM
Oh, ok. 19 year olds can play defense but 19 years olds that want to play in the NBA have no interest in playing defense (all visual and statistical evidence from this team to the contrary). Got it. I have suddenly seen the light.

Not at all what I said. Admittedly, they have SOME interest in playing defense (to avoid the bench), but I am stating that 19 yr old OAD's can play BETTER Zone D than m-to-m. Unfortunately, you may not get a chance to really "see the light" if coaches don't.

pfrduke
12-05-2018, 09:43 PM
Nope, 79% from the FT line. Best on the team among guys who actually get to the line. Of the things to question about Reddish, shooting is probably last on the list. He is a terrific shooter.

And his shooting in other areas isn’t “lacking” at all.

Come on. Don’t let stats get in the way of a perfectly good ill-informed narrative.

BandAlum83
12-05-2018, 09:43 PM
Nope, 79% from the FT line. Best on the team among guys who actually get to the line. Of the things to question about Reddish, shooting is probably last on the list. He is a terrific shooter.

He must be a REALLY Old Dukie that doesn't know how the Google machine works. He's probably killer with microfiche research.

OldPhiKap
12-05-2018, 09:43 PM
This is just filthy:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESqLwTmOjFg

And that followed a steal/slam immediately before it IIRC.

jgehtland
12-05-2018, 09:43 PM
1. I for one am happy to see us playing defense this way, and excited about a strong m2m defense that causes turnovers at a high rate (especially live ball turnovers) and features Tre harassing dudes all over the court. Makes me smile listening to folks in the crowd yelling “get ‘im Tre” as he forces the PG to use 22 seconds just to find a passing lane.

2. I was never once worried we would lose the game. I WAS worried that this would turn into Vermont 2014. Instead, it turned into Kansas/Wofford (from yesterday). KS was up 42-40 with around 14 minutes to go. The next time I looked at the score, it was 72-41. And Kansas doesn’t even feature a bunch of OADs! How could that have happened????

3. Can you mute people on here?

Ian
12-05-2018, 09:44 PM
To me, this is the legitimate concern to take away from the game.

This is why we cannot go back to zone this year. When the outside shot is not falling, the next best way to create offense is easy baskets in transition, and for that we need to create steals and turnovers, which is very difficult to do playing zone. Last year because of our zone we were very bad at forcing turnovers, this year's team has the personnel to play good M2M, and should focus on playing M2M.

UrinalCake
12-05-2018, 09:44 PM
Pretty lackluster game until the fireworks began in the last 10 minutes. I think the concern about the defense is not the overall performance but the several plays in which we fell asleep and/or didn’t communicate and allowed open layups. K looked pretty upset after each one. If not for their best player fouling out and their team running out of gas this could have been a much closer game.

Great game from Javin. Bolden started out well but then disappeared. Reddish missing shots was bizarre, hopefully he got it out of his system. Wish we could get Alex going. Need to get the ball into Zion in the post more. Transition dunks are fun!

pfrduke
12-05-2018, 09:45 PM
3. Can you mute people on here?

Yes! It’s somewhere in the board settings function.

Old Dukie
12-05-2018, 09:47 PM
Nope, 79% from the FT line. Best on the team among guys who actually get to the line. Of the things to question about Reddish, shooting is probably last on the list. He is a terrific shooter.

And his shooting in other areas isn’t “lacking” at all.

Sorry, 79% FT is nothing to write home about. "Best on team" isn't saying much
when rest of team is sub par.

BandAlum83
12-05-2018, 09:47 PM
And that followed a steal/slam immediately before it IIRC.

It takes me back to the days of the Johnny Dawkins steal and runout for the slam. It's been waaaay too long since we've seen this fun and exciting style of play!

THIS is Duke Basketball!

pfrduke
12-05-2018, 09:48 PM
Pretty lackluster game until the fireworks began in the last 10 minutes. I think the concern about the defense is not the overall performance but the several plays in which we fell asleep and/or didn’t communicate and allowed open layups. K looked pretty upset after each one. If not for their best player fouling out and their team running out of gas this could have been a much closer game.

Great game from Javin. Bolden started out well but then disappeared. Reddish missing shots was bizarre, hopefully he got it out of his system. Wish we could get Alex going. Need to get the ball into Zion in the post more. Transition dunks are fun!

Two things. One, there are going to be plays in each game where we have defensive breakdowns. No team on the planet plays perfect defense every play of every game. If people think we can’t play defense because of a few individual breakdowns, their expectations are out of whack (not directing this at you).

Two, I would submit that one of the strategies of our defense is to produce fatigue. We are making teams work extremely hard on offense and if that leads to them breaking down in the last 5-10 minutes, we shouldn’t be just passing that off to coincidence or convenience. Stamina is a skill and if we exploit the lack of that through our defensive strategy, that’s a good thing, even if it means some guys get beat on back cuts a few possessions a game.

OldPhiKap
12-05-2018, 09:49 PM
It takes me back to the days of the Johnny Dawkins steal and runout for the slam. It's been waaaay too long since we've seen this fun and exciting style of play!

THIS is Duke Basketball!

Yup, and Amaker pressuring the point.

BandAlum83
12-05-2018, 09:50 PM
Yup, and Amaker pressuring the point.

That too, of course. On my phone and too much typing. Lol

Old Dukie
12-05-2018, 09:50 PM
Yes! It’s somewhere in the board settings function.

Predictable...can't handle the truth - or a contrary opinion. Lots of that going on at colleges these days!

CDu
12-05-2018, 09:50 PM
Sorry, 79% FT is nothing to write home about. "Best on team" isn't saying much
when rest of team is sub par.

L.O.L.

pfrduke
12-05-2018, 09:52 PM
Predictable...can't handle the truth - or a contrary opinion. Lots of that going on at colleges these days!

I have not ignored you (all desires to the contrary). I have simply presented facts, none of which you have responded to with contrary facts.

Neals384
12-05-2018, 09:53 PM
Understanding our personnel (OAD's) means admitting they'll always struggle with man to man D. Employing Zone D at key times will mitigate that problem.


Not at all what I said. Admittedly, they have SOME interest in playing defense (to avoid the bench), but I am stating that 19 yr old OAD's can play BETTER Zone D than m-to-m. Unfortunately, you may not get a chance to really "see the light" if coaches don't.

I was one of the folks advocating early for last year's team to switch to zone as the primary D. Took a long time but K finally agreed with me. Not this year. This team is already good at M2M, and they will get better at it. DBR has people with superb basketball knowledge (not including yours truly), They have already explained why zone would be a terrible idea for this year's team.

Sometimes it's best to be quiet, listen and learn while realizing you're not the smartest person in the room. Took me many years to learn this lesson!

devildeac
12-05-2018, 09:54 PM
And that followed a steal/slam immediately before it IIRC.

Indeed it was a Zion steal that lead to that play. Bad defense, indeed. :rolleyes:;)

BandAlum83
12-05-2018, 09:58 PM
Indeed it was a Zion steal that lead to that play. Bad defense, indeed. :rolleyes:;)

We are actually within 1.6 of Virginia's adjusted defense.

CDu
12-05-2018, 09:59 PM
Anyway, aside from one poster’s ridiculous hot-takes, I thought we played pretty well. We held them to 54 points on ~75 possessions. Offensively, we took good shots that just didn’t go in a lot. Two missed dunks by Zion is flukiest, as is the number of missed open 3s. With those two dunks and a 33% percentage on 3s, we are pushing 100 points in 75 possessions. Given exam time, I am not at all concerned with this one.

Loved seeing DeLaurier have a big game. Hopefully he can build off that. If he does and the freshmen stay healthy, we are going to be awfully hard to beat. This has the makings of a supremely fun season.

BLPOG
12-05-2018, 10:00 PM
Predictable...can't handle the truth - or a contrary opinion. Lots of that going on at colleges these days!

I'm not trying to make this point personal, as I don't think your posts have been in bad faith and welcome disagreeing viewpoints even in cases when I think someone is totally wrong - at the very least, such disagreement can provide some contribution toward a standard by which to evaluate other opinions.

That said, I only have one word to describe the suggestion that contrary opinion cannot be handled on this forum: laughable.

Haven't you ever read our grammar tangents?!??!!

devildeac
12-05-2018, 10:01 PM
I was one of the folks advocating early for last year's team to switch to zone as the primary D. Took a long time but K finally agreed with me. Not this year. This team is already good at M2M, and they will get better at it. DBR has people with superb basketball knowledge (not including yours truly), They have already explained why M2M would be a terrible idea for this year's team.

Sometimes it's best to be quiet, listen and learn while realizing you're not the smartest person in the room. Took me many years to learn this lesson!

"Smile more. Talk less."

Aaron Burr, sir.

OldPhiKap
12-05-2018, 10:11 PM
I don’t know who this Swiseman guy is, but he thinks our defense may be less than crappy:

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article222322845.html

Billy Dat
12-05-2018, 10:36 PM
This team is going to give up some backdoor layups and open 3’s at times. They are not being coached to keep themselves between their man and the basket at all times. It comes down to understanding your personnel and coaching. We pressure the ball, deny passes and overplay; relying on our athleticism to make up for mistakes. We do this because we are almost unstoppable when we create live ball turnovers and rushed shots. If only our head coach had any idea how to coach.

I thought we played better D in the 1H than the 2H when we gave up a ton of wide open 3s that Hartford missed, but your description of why that might habe happened rings true.

RJ played great, he has absorbed the lessons of the end of Gonzaga without losing the aggression that makes him special. Monster line tonight.

Zion makes so much happen through effort - how many shots does he alter? How many loose balls does he either cause or keep alive? How hard does he run up and down the court? The kid never stops!

Great Jav game!

Cam didn’t shoot well, but he kept himself in the game with passing, good D, etc. i saw it as a sign of maturity and growth that he was a presence even when his shot wasn’t falling.

Tre Pebbles did his thing.

I think K mostly got mad at times when we got separation and then a few bad possessions kept the game close. He was angry about the team failing to recognize those moments when we could have stepped on their throats.

Solid W!

Steven43
12-05-2018, 11:26 PM
Old Dukie just telling it like it is. If we can't win it all in 2019 with this group, it'll never happen until DEFENSE is re-established at a higher level. Watch Michigan play and you'll see what I mean.
Why has it become almost completely about “winning it all”? So among the big boy schools only one — the winner of the National Championship — can feel good about their season and the rest are supposed to hang their heads and feel like crap? I really don’t like this way of thinking. Sure, I love to see Duke win the National Championship, but I consider a successful season to be when the team is entertaining to watch, gets better as the season goes on, plays unselfish team ball, and beats UNC at least once. If those things happen, I’m good. The National Championship is just icing.

Kedsy
12-06-2018, 12:12 AM
It's late and I'm tired, so I'm keeping my comments on each stat to a minimum again. I'm working on the explanations for each stat and hopefully will get that done within the next week.

ADVANCED STATS

Possessions: 72.73

OFFENSE

oRtg: 1.16 (our adjusted oRtg was 1.13, maybe our worst performances of the season).
eFG%: 54.3%
3pt%: 19.2% (this was basically our offensive problem tonight)
2pt%: 69.8%
%threes: 37.7%
FT rate: 18.8% (we need to get to the line more than this)
OR%: 43.2%
TO%: 17.9%
a/to: 1.38:1
%assisted: 51.4%
fast break pts: 36 fb pts for 42.9% (wow, 43% of our points came on fast breaks!)


DEFENSE

dRtg: 0.74 (adjusted that's 0.76, our third straight game with an adjusted dRating under 0.8)
eFG%: 33.3%
3pt%: 29.6%
2pt%: 35.3%
%threes: 39.3%
FT rate: 14.8%
DR%: 69.8%
TO%: 28.9% (third straight game over 25%)
a/to: 0.62:1
%assisted: 65.0%
fast break pts: 3 fb pts for 5.6% (this number looks even more impressive when you consider Duke had 36 fb points)
block%: 16.4%; 29.4% of 2-point shots (almost one-third of Hartford's 2-pointers never made it to the rim)


That we could win by 30 while shooting 19% from three-point range could be considered by some as a good sign.

JetpackJesus
12-06-2018, 01:19 AM
Why has it become almost completely about “winning it all”? So among the big boy schools only one — the winner of the National Championship — can feel good about their season and the rest are supposed to hang their heads and feel like crap? I really don’t like this way of thinking. Sure, I love to see Duke win the National Championship, but I consider a successful season to be when the team is entertaining to watch, gets better as the season goes on, plays unselfish team ball, and beats UNC at least once. If those things happen, I’m good. The National Championship is just icing.
Because it's so easy, obvi. That's why in the last 30 years the team with the most championships has won it all 5 times. I think that school is located in some city in NC called Durham.

And the team with the most titles ever (since 1939) has a whopping 11. They even won one of those after 1975!

Winning an NCAA title is hard.

dragoneye776
12-06-2018, 02:45 AM
3. Can you mute people on here?

Click their username to go to their profile. Then click, "Add to ignore list" on the top left. Confirm, and that's it. It has done wonders for some of the trolls around here.

HereBeforeCoachK
12-06-2018, 05:21 AM
I was one of the folks advocating early for last year's team to switch to zone as the primary D. Took a long time but K finally agreed with me. Not this year. This team is already good at M2M, and they will get better at it. DBR has people with superb basketball knowledge (not including yours truly), They have already explained why zone would be a terrible idea for this year's team. !

I too was an early zone advocate for last year's team, and to hear Coach K explain it, he stayed with man a little longer to teach the principles they would need in their ultimate zone. But this year's team is totally different. They may not be a great defensive team, but they can be very good, and they can be in uncharted territory in how they score off turnovers. That attacking style definitely suits this personnel.

fraggler
12-06-2018, 06:16 AM
Click their username to go to their profile. Then click, "Add to ignore list" on the top left. Confirm, and that's it. It has done wonders for some of the trolls around here.

The main issue with this is when people quote the offenders and I still get glimpses of what I'm trying to ignore. It would be neat if the board software could still hide the content when quoted like on other forums I have seen. Oh well.

budwom
12-06-2018, 07:13 AM
halfcourt defense may be boring for some guys (I'm not saying these guys) but everyone seems to enjoy pressuring, run/jump defense...Hartford handled it pretty well in the first half.
There will be more nights when teams pack into a tight zone and our shots don't fall....just have to grind through it, hit the offensive glass, etc..

Troublemaker
12-06-2018, 07:36 AM
I've written this before, but one quick way to go from a top-3 recruiting program to a top-25 recruiting program (assuming that's the floor for Duke) is to become a zone-first program. You can't just advocate for starting every season in zone without discussing the recruiting implications. To continue recruiting at the highest level, Duke should always exhaust all possibilities to play m2m first before turning to zone (if indeed that Duke team plays zone better than m2m). Luckily, this season's team seems to be a very good fit for m2m, but hopefully the zone will still be practiced and used as an occasional curveball within games to get an opponent that's playing well to become out-of-sync; we should not become a 100% m2m team.


This team is going to give up some backdoor layups and open 3’s at times. They are not being coached to keep themselves between their man and the basket at all times. It comes down to understanding your personnel and coaching. We pressure the ball, deny passes and overplay; relying on our athleticism to make up for mistakes. We do this because we are almost unstoppable when we create live ball turnovers and rushed shots. If only our head coach had any idea how to coach.


This team should run. I’ll give up some layups on backdoors to get the runouts on rebounds and steals this team can generate.

Yep.

Basketball is not a shutout sport unlike baseball, soccer, hockey, heck, even football (although they're becoming rarer in that sport). In basketball, you're never going to win 90-0. You can win 90-60 and have played great defense, depending on the number of possessions, and adjusted for opponent. Many posts upthread have already explained why Duke's defense was good against Hartford using these methods already.

So, more to the point. If:
(1) The opponent is clearly using a backdoor offensive strategy, and
(2) Basketball is not a shutout sport (i.e. the opponent WILL score some of the time)

Then when the opponent DOES score, what will it look like? Probably backdoor layups, right? But you have to balance that against steals, rushed shots, and the damage Duke does in transition.

MChambers
12-06-2018, 08:13 AM
Basketball is not a shutout sport unlike baseball, soccer, hockey, heck, even football (although they're becoming rarer in that sport). In basketball, you're never going to win 90-0. You can win 90-60 and have played great defense, depending on the number of possessions, and adjusted for opponent. Many posts upthread have already explained why Duke's defense was good against Hartford using these methods already.

Duke did pitch a shutout for one half, in 1979, against some no-account ACC team.

HereBeforeCoachK
12-06-2018, 08:14 AM
Duke did pitch a shutout for one half, in 1979, against some no-account ACC team.

Not only a shut out.....but since there was no rim hit, I'd call it a no hitter as well....

Indoor66
12-06-2018, 08:18 AM
I've written this before, but one quick way to go from a top-3 recruiting program to a top-25 recruiting program (assuming that's the floor for Duke) is to become a zone-first program. You can't just advocate for starting every season in zone without discussing the recruiting implications. To continue recruiting at the highest level, Duke should always exhaust all possibilities to play m2m first before turning to zone (if indeed that Duke team plays zone better than m2m). Luckily, this season's team seems to be a very good fit for m2m, but hopefully the zone will still be practiced and used as an occasional curveball within games to get an opponent that's playing well to become out-of-sync; we should not become a 100% m2m team.





Yep.

Basketball is not a shutout sport unlike baseball, soccer, hockey, heck, even football (although they're becoming rarer in that sport). In basketball, you're never going to win 90-0. You can win 90-60 and have played great defense, depending on the number of possessions, and adjusted for opponent. Many posts upthread have already explained why Duke's defense was good against Hartford using these methods already.

So, more to the point. If:
(1) The opponent is clearly using a backdoor offensive strategy, and
(2) Basketball is not a shutout sport (i.e. the opponent WILL score some of the time)

Then when the opponent DOES score, what will it look like? Probably backdoor layups, right? But you have to balance that against steals, rushed shots, and the damage Duke does in transition.

Good points. We do have to remember that even when we have the better athletes and more skilled players, the other team has players who are pretty good at putting the ball in the basket. On top of that, they're trying to win.

Rich
12-06-2018, 08:47 AM
Click their username to go to their profile. Then click, "Add to ignore list" on the top left. Confirm, and that's it. It has done wonders for some of the trolls around here.

I use it to block posters who always seem to make a negative point, usually redundant to their previous posts, and in no way constructive, which effectively raises my blood pressure. The block has done wonders for me!

dyedwab
12-06-2018, 09:06 AM
One thing that is apparent throughout our games, and was apparent especially during the second half is that our players thrive on playing pressure defense. They aren't as good as they are gonna be yet (I mean, they are freshmen, and we're in December), but it's clear that they like jumping the passing lanes, they get down on the floor to get loose balls, etc. Even our certain-to-be-top-5 picks seem to be willing and able to do what is seen as the "dirty work" of playing defense.

It's really fun to watch - and I think it really matters because they realize that the thing that gets them out and running and doing all the fun things they like to do happens because of there willingness to do the hard work on the defensive end.

Also, Trae Jones is a really good on-the-ball defender.

devildeac
12-06-2018, 09:07 AM
I'd be delighted with a couple 82-50 finals this year. Highly improbable to occur but I think we'd all be ecstatic after games like that. ;)

CDu
12-06-2018, 09:19 AM
3pt%: 19.2% (this was basically our offensive problem tonight)
dRtg: 0.74 (adjusted that's 0.76, our third straight game with an adjusted dRating under 0.8)
That we could win by 30 while shooting 19% from three-point range could be considered by some as a good sign.

All of this.

I can't fathom why anyone would be complaining about the defense after this game. Mainly, I can't see why anyone would be seriously complaining about this game at all. Yes, we missed a LOT of 3s. But it wasn't like we were forcing bad shots. They were open looks, generally by good shooters. Reddish, White, and O'Connell - probably our three best 3pt shooters - combined to shoot 2-17(!!!) from 3 last night. And virtually all of those were open/wide-open looks. If they hit even a just-poor 6 of 17 and Williamson doesn't miss two dunks, we might be looking at a 100-point game and 40+ point win instead of the 30 point win and 84-point game.

It's just hard for me to get too worked up over missing open 3s in a blowout win. Sometimes these things happen. I don't think we'll have too many nights where those 3 shoot that poorly at the same time.

UrinalCake
12-06-2018, 09:28 AM
Have to get a personal pet peeve of my chest - I absolutely hate when we tip a shot attempt and the crowd responds by chanting “airball.” This happened late in the first half (I think) on a three point attempt. Not only does it show a lack of understanding of what happened, it fails to acknowledge the great defensive play that our own team made. Ok, that’s all my grumbling for now.

elvis14
12-06-2018, 09:33 AM
I haven't watch the game on TV yet. I did get to go to the game in person. Here are my thoughts:



Loved making it into CIS for the first time this season.
What a weird game. Just an odd flow to it.
As others have mentioned, if we hit a few more open 3's this game is an early blowout
Seeing Cam Reddish in person, I didn't realize just how long he is. No wonder he's got so much NBA potential
I really liked Hartford's PG. Great ball handling and once he realized that taking the ball to the hoop was a bad idea, he did a great job of dribble penetration and distributing. I was sitting behind the visitor's bench and he was in a lot of pain after cramping up. Was impressed that he came back in so soon.
The last timeout before we pulled away the Hartford coach was telling his guys "You are going to win this game". Sure, he was wrong but I liked the message. Sadly for him things soon went downhill.
I thought RJ really just kept our baseline high. I wouldn't say he carried us but his play was at a high enough level to make the up and down play of others not matter against this level of opponent.
I loved the off the backboard pass Zion gave RJ. This is a game, it's supposed to be fun. That looked like a lot of fun.
Javin and Tre played really well. I feel like our potential as a team goes up so much with these 2 playing well.
Is it safe to assume that the students have final exams going on right now? There were fewer students/crazies at the game than usual (except for games where the students are away). I am not trying to repeat the conversation about how much better/worse/whatever crazies are, I'm just saying that their numbers were low last night, really low. Made for a more quiet CIS (well except for me and my friend)
Weird post game thread. I've always heard that it's better to be quiet and let others think you a fool than speak and remove all doubt.

swiseman
12-06-2018, 09:39 AM
I don’t know who this Swiseman guy is, but he thinks our defense may be less than crappy:

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article222322845.html

A fella with lots and lots of consonants in this last name (it starts with K) agrees. Tre Jones' on-the-ball pressure plus the presence of long, athletic players like Barrett, Williamson, Reddish plus rim protection from Bolden and DeLaurier give this Duke team plenty of defensive might.

CDu
12-06-2018, 09:41 AM
Have to get a personal pet peeve of my chest - I absolutely hate when we tip a shot attempt and the crowd responds by chanting “airball.” This happened late in the first half (I think) on a three point attempt. Not only does it show a lack of understanding of what happened, it fails to acknowledge the great defensive play that our own team made. Ok, that’s all my grumbling for now.

I had the same reaction. It was a nice effort play and block by (I think) Bolden.

As a general rule, if the shot winds up 5 feet short on a regular 3pt attempt, it's probably not really an airball.

OldPhiKap
12-06-2018, 09:41 AM
Is it safe to assume that the students have final exams going on right now? There were fewer students/crazies at the game than usual (except for games where the students are away).

FWIW I got an email Tuesday saying that tickets in the student section were available. So it seems that Duke anticipated a small crowd. Per K, it is the week before finals but many students have papers, projects, reports, and presentations due this week. He said that it has been this way since some changes about ten years ago.

FWIW.

BLPOG
12-06-2018, 09:48 AM
Duke (http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?clip=5903575&cid=901&db_oem_id=4200)

Hartford (http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?clip=5903574&cid=901&db_oem_id=4200)

JayZee
12-06-2018, 10:30 AM
A fella with lots and lots of consonants in this last name (it starts with K) agrees. Tre Jones' on-the-ball pressure plus the presence of long, athletic players like Barrett, Williamson, Reddish plus rim protection from Bolden and DeLaurier give this Duke team plenty of defensive might.

Ignoring the noise from one cranky poster, isn't this approach - focusing on M2M, accepting early season lessons with a view towards the end of year D - exactly what many of the less cranky long term posters have been asking for for years?

The 80s/90s K teams lost more often during the regular season and then tended to accelerate in the post season. In the 2000s the regular season records were better relative to post season success, especially when comparing to those crazy great late 80s early 90s tourney records. Was that on purpose? Did K change his approach? Not sure. K has also said over the years (you clearly will know remember better) that to win a NC, a team has to be elite in a couple categories. This team is clearly elite offensively (especially if we improve 3P and FT pct) And The D has an 80s feel, especially with Tre at the point. By focusing on M2M, the communication and rotations/adjustments will improve giving us the opportunity to have a truly elite D at the end of the year.

ncexnyc
12-06-2018, 10:49 AM
I'd be delighted with a couple 82-50 finals this year. Highly improbable to occur but I think we'd all be ecstatic after games like that. ;)

How true. I missed the first half due to a cold medication induced nap and when I turned the game on it was indeed a shock to see the halftime score. However, had I slept through the whole game and then saw the final score I never would have had any reason to question how the team played.

Games have their ebbs and flows and very rarely will the opposition get crushed from the opening tip-off. Enjoy the ride folks and savor the moment of watching some super talented freshmen do their thing.

COYS
12-06-2018, 11:10 AM
I haven't had much time to post, this season, but I've still been able to watch all the games. I just have to say that it is really, really fun to watch this team play defense. For this reason, I found last night's game particularly encouraging. There's no doubt this team can score, even if there is room for improvement in terms of overall efficiency. However, I can say without reservation that our defense is very good. Better yet, our defensive style complements our preferred offensive style, which is something I couldn't say last year when our zone D made it harder for Tre Duvall, Marvin, etc. to get out into transition. When the D is clicking, it reminds me of the 2001 team.

Even though most of our players struggled with their shot, not one guy hung their head and let it get to them on the defensive end. Cam Reddish was perhaps the best example of that, considering his 2-12 night from the floor. The guy is a really talented defender for a freshman. Despite the (well-deserved) love Tre gets for his on-the-ball defense, I think Cam might be the best defender out of the freshmen quartet. He has such good instincts to go along with his length and quickness. I forget when this play occurred (I think it was late in the second half), but there was one instance in which he single-handedly managed to force a Hartford player into a pass to the corner on a fast break and THEN recovered to the corner to bother what should have been an open corner three. Our toughest stretches on defense this season occurred when Cam was on the bench with foul trouble against Gonzaga. I don't think that is a coincidence.

Also, Javin is SOOO talented on defense when he's not in foul trouble. I love what Marques is doing in terms of hunting for blocks and protecting the rim, but Javin's ability to switch on screens, jump passing lanes, and rebound out of his area make him an absolutely essential part of the rotation. Hopefully, we'll see more games like tonight where he keeps his foul count low.

On offense, I don't think there is much else to say that hasn't been said. When RJ plays efficiently and our defense is clicking, we are going to be tough to beat no matter how the rest of the team is shooting. However, when we play defense like we did last night, our offensive floor is really, really high because we are going to get a lot of points in transition.

The biggest question is whether or not our ability to force turnovers translates to tougher competition. We've really ramped-up our ability to force turnovers in the three games since the Gonzaga loss, including the game against Indiana. If we keep that up against stiffer competition, then our ceiling becomes sky-high.

rsvman
12-06-2018, 11:19 AM
Why do I get the feeling that "Old Dukie" is really "Young TarHeel"?



Anyway, as to the game, the shooting was poor, especially in the first half, and there were a few blatant defensive breakdowns. It was clear that K wasn't happy at certain points in the game.

But the guys continued to play hard, and made a lot of nice defensive plays leading to amazing fast-break opportunities. That should be this team's bread and butter all season long. I just hope we don't lose guys to injury on out-of-control fast breaks.

Kedsy
12-06-2018, 12:42 PM
I thought RJ really just kept our baseline high. I wouldn't say he carried us but his play was at a high enough level to make the up and down play of others not matter against this level of opponent.

Yeah, it's kind of amazing that a player can have a 27-15 game on 71% shooting, along with 4 assists to only 1 turnover, and he's barely mentioned in the post-game thread.

Also, a lot of people have been talking about Javin, but 10 points on 5 for 5 shooting with 4 rebounds, 5 blocks, 3 steals, and 2 assists (but no turnovers) in 19 minutes is a pretty outrageous stat line.

AtlDuke72
12-06-2018, 01:23 PM
[QUOTE=CDu;1106415]Anyway, aside from one poster’s ridiculous hot-takes, I thought we played pretty well.

Maybe old Dukies are like old soldiers and simply fade away. Lets hope it happens soon.

JasonEvans
12-06-2018, 02:07 PM
I haven't had much time to post, this season, but I've still been able to watch all the games. I just have to say that it is really, really fun to watch this team play defense. For this reason, I found last night's game particularly encouraging. There's no doubt this team can score, even if there is room for improvement in terms of overall efficiency. However, I can say without reservation that our defense is very good. Better yet, our defensive style complements our preferred offensive style, which is something I couldn't say last year when our zone D made it harder for Tre Duvall, Marvin, etc. to get out into transition. When the D is clicking, it reminds me of the 2001 team.

Excellent post, COYS. We have missed you around these parts.

Let me also echo the many folks who say this is a wondrous team to watch play D. They enthusiastically switch everything, which makes it extremely hard to get a good shot against them. Thus far, it seems like the communication has been quite good on the switching... well, except for one moment in the first half when Jack and Zion were both next to a Hartford player and both thought the other guy would take him, leading to an easy layup down the lane for the Hartford guy. Ha!

TruBlu
12-06-2018, 02:29 PM
Why do I get the feeling that "Old Dukie" is really "Young TarHeel"?



Leave “Old Dukie” alone. He is probably enjoying his nap time at Carboro Elementary.

HereBeforeCoachK
12-06-2018, 03:54 PM
Leave “Old Dukie” alone. He is probably enjoying his nap time at Carboro Elementary.

I have a different notion on Old Dukie.....I think he is an Old Dukie, a get off my lawn kind of guy, and for some reason thinks this forum is full of college students who don't have years or decades of Duke fandom..... I got that from one of his comments.......

TruBlu
12-06-2018, 05:28 PM
I shouldn’t have made that comment about him/her and elementary school. For all I know, there isn’t nap time there. I’m so old and from such a remote area that we didn’t have elementary, middle, junior high, and high school. We just had “School”, all inclusive.

Now get out of my pasture!!!

NSDukeFan
12-06-2018, 07:11 PM
I shouldn’t have made that comment about him/her and elementary school. For all I know, there isn’t nap time there. I’m so old and from such a remote area that we didn’t have elementary, middle, junior high, and high school. We just had “School”, all inclusive.

Now get out of my pasture!!!

Better than what has been available 8ish miles from Duke.