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JasonEvans
11-28-2018, 12:53 PM
We can merge this into the coaching changes thread in a bit, but it probably needs to stand on its own for the moment.

Wow...

This comes only days after Kirby Smart complained about the way Ga Tech run blocks (lots of cut blocks) and said the best way to end it was to just beat Ga Tech like a drum again and again in the hope that Johnson would just go away.

What Kirby wants, it seems that Kirby gets.

chrishoke
11-28-2018, 12:55 PM
is apparently retiring - announcement at 2:30.

devildeac
11-28-2018, 12:58 PM
No tears here.

Indoor66
11-28-2018, 01:15 PM
No tears here.

Just glad we did not get him, way back when!

PackMan97
11-28-2018, 01:15 PM
I'll always remember when he hung 68 on Carolina. So long and thanks for all the fish.

It's worth noting that he is 6 years young than Carolina's recently newly unretired coach.

jimsumner
11-28-2018, 01:20 PM
David Cutcliffe now has the longest uninterrupted tenure at any ACC school.

Johnson has recruited players designed for a very specific kind of offense. Assuming his successor does not want to run that offense, there may be a difficult adjustment period.

OldPhiKap
11-28-2018, 01:22 PM
And suddenly, the world is a sunnier place.


So long and thanks for all the fish.



I'll buy you a beer next time we are both in the Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

Don't panic.

devilseven
11-28-2018, 01:23 PM
I happen to know one of his family members from Avery County, NC. It seems that all the criticisms from fans and foes were weighing on Paul. He told this family member that any time Ga. Tech wanted to pay him what he was due, He would go quietly. I guess they worked out some satisfactory agreement. All he did was win, but winning is not enough these days, I guess.

OldPhiKap
11-28-2018, 01:45 PM
I happen to know one of his family members from Avery County, NC. It seems that all the criticisms from fans and foes were weighing on Paul. He told this family member that any time Ga. Tech wanted to pay him what he was due, He would go quietly. I guess they worked out some satisfactory agreement. All he did was win, but winning is not enough these days, I guess.

Well, his winning was fairly modest by the standards of a school with four national championships, and fans that hate getting embarrassed by UGA almost every year.

You can ask Dave Odom and Herb Sendek -- winning while boring can only carry you so far with a fan base. And the fact that PJ was a Grumpy Gus with boosters, alum, and the press is poor politics for a coach with mid-level results.

I am sure he has a wonderful family, and perhaps away from the game he is a swell guy. I hope that to be the case. But EVERY Tech alum I know has wanted him gone for a long time.

FWIW. I have no stake in it one way or the other. My only criticism was the cut blocks which are dirty IMHO and should be outlawed.

devilseven
11-28-2018, 02:08 PM
Just two points, and I'm out: Johnson is Ga. Tech's winningest coach in over 50 years. I would not call that mediocre. He was named ACC coach of the year three times.
So called cut blocks are LEGAL. All those complaining about them should get them outlawed and should have done so long ago if they are so "dirty".

OldPhiKap
11-28-2018, 02:23 PM
Just two points, and I'm out: Johnson is Ga. Tech's winningest coach in over 50 years. I would not call that mediocre. He was named ACC coach of the year three times.
So called cut blocks are LEGAL. All those complaining about them should get them outlawed and should have done so long ago if they are so "dirty".

I respect those opinions, even though I do not really agree. No worries, and glad you posted them. Conversations are more enlightening with a variety of viewpoints, and mine are not any more valid than yours.

-- OPK

HereBeforeCoachK
11-28-2018, 02:32 PM
Just two points, and I'm out: Johnson is Ga. Tech's winningest coach in over 50 years. I would not call that mediocre. He was named ACC coach of the year three times.
So called cut blocks are LEGAL. All those complaining about them should get them outlawed and should have done so long ago if they are so "dirty".

Johnson is winningest in total wins, but NOT in winning percentage. He also won 19 games with Chan Gailey's players his first two seasons. They were two of his best three seasons.
Meanwhile, Bobby Ross inherited a mess, took two years to turn it around, then went 26-9 over three years including a Natty. All things considered, you would have to consider the tenures of Gailey, Ross and O'Leary as more successful.....

And few people like Johnson. Unlikeable coaches who run boring offenses had better average 9 wins a year.

devilseven
11-28-2018, 02:55 PM
Quoting from the Georgia Tech website: "With a 82-59 record in 11 seasons at Georgia Tech, Johnson is the fourth winningest coach in school history in terms of victories and winning percentage (582). The only coaches that have have ever won more games at Georgia Tech are John Heisman, William Alexander, and Bobby Dodd, all members of the Football Hall of Fame."

budwom
11-28-2018, 03:10 PM
I pity Mrs. Johnson if there is one. Get him interested in stamps or something.

HereBeforeCoachK
11-28-2018, 03:16 PM
Quoting from the Georgia Tech website: "With a 82-59 record in 11 seasons at Georgia Tech, Johnson is the fourth winningest coach in school history in terms of victories and winning percentage (582). The only coaches that have have ever won more games at Georgia Tech are John Heisman, William Alexander, and Bobby Dodd, all members of the Football Hall of Fame."

So what is your point? Should he have stayed? Should Tech name the field after him? Should they try and get another coach from the academies and run this little high school offense some more? Is his misanthropic image all a misunderstanding? Like I said, you gonna throw off that kind of personality, and run a controversial offensive system, you gotta win big. Nice guys with exciting offenses can get by with fewer wins.

OldPhiKap
11-28-2018, 03:17 PM
PJ's regular season record the last four years:

3-9
8-4
5-6
7-5

So, 23-24 regular season over that span.

Per AJC:


The Bulldogs beat the Jackets 45-21 on Saturday at Sanford Stadium after they beat them by 31 last year at The Flats. The combined margin of 55 points is the most for the Bulldogs in back-to-back victories over Tech since the gap of 61 total points in 2002 and 2003.

The Bulldogs have won eight of the past 10 and 15 of 18 against Tech.

https://www.ajc.com/blog/mike-check/new-rivalry-standard-same-before-georgia-blows-out-georgia-tech/oA86TGogqEmZccXPERIYsK/

I'm not saying he is lousy, and if mediocre is too strong I'll concede that point. But is this a program headed in the right direction? Is the triple option offense the future of football? Does his style of play put butts in the seats? Has he earned the loyalty of the donors? Tech fans tell me "no" to all of these -- constantly.

The Duke game this year was their homecoming. I was at the game. The crowd was underwhelming, and the majority left after the third quarter with Duke up 28-14. And again, I don't have a dog in the fight but I have yet to talk to (or get a text from) a GT alum in the last two hours that is not glad his is going. And I have talked to or gotten texts from at least a dozen.

Bob Green
11-28-2018, 03:35 PM
Who replaces Johnson?

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/georgia-tech-football-8-coaching-candidates-replace-paul-johnson

The linked article lists eight possibilities including Jeff Monken and Brian Bohannon who are triple option coaches.

devilseven
11-28-2018, 03:38 PM
Wow. Sorry about riling up the board hierarchy.

devildeac
11-28-2018, 03:45 PM
Who replaces Johnson?

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/georgia-tech-football-8-coaching-candidates-replace-paul-johnson

The linked article lists eight possibilities including Jeff Monken and Brian Bohannon who are triple option coaches.

LF is currently unemployed but will start collecting a large check very soon from a large public school in NC. :rolleyes:

Bob Green
11-28-2018, 03:47 PM
Wow. Sorry about riling up the board hierarchy.

No reason to apologize. You have voiced valid points and supported them with facts. :cool:

OldPhiKap
11-28-2018, 03:48 PM
Wow. Sorry about riling up the board hierarchy.

I think you are taking this personally for some reason, which is certainly not my intent.

You have an opinion, and stated facts supporting it.

Several others (myself included) have a different opinion, and stated facts supporting it.

No worries.

BandAlum83
11-28-2018, 03:52 PM
I respect those opinions, even though I do not really agree. No worries, and glad you posted them. Conversations are more enlightening with a variety of viewpoints, and mine are not any more valid than yours.

-- OPK

Do you have a cut and paste file you use to make standard responses? This has the look of something that was perfected over years!

May I use this in the future?

OldPhiKap
11-28-2018, 03:57 PM
May I use this in the future?

As long as you cite me in the footnote.

OldPhiKap
11-28-2018, 04:01 PM
Who replaces Johnson?

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/georgia-tech-football-8-coaching-candidates-replace-paul-johnson

The linked article lists eight possibilities including Jeff Monken and Brian Bohannon who are triple option coaches.

I am a huge Monken fan. But I doubt GT sticks with the option. Most fans seem to think it is dull; limits recruiting; and limits the ability to win if you are down by more than a score late in the game.

Personally, I like seeing the option. But probably not every weekend.

HereBeforeCoachK
11-28-2018, 04:02 PM
The linked article lists eight possibilities including Jeff Monken and Brian Bohannon who are triple option coaches.

I thought about Monken, but he's kind of turned Army into maybe a better job than Tech, all things considered. And I'm thinking the GT alums want OUT of the triple option. Monken is clearly a very good coach however.

JasonEvans
11-28-2018, 04:27 PM
Who replaces Johnson?

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/georgia-tech-football-8-coaching-candidates-replace-paul-johnson

The linked article lists eight possibilities including Jeff Monken and Brian Bohannon who are triple option coaches.

I would be beyond shocked if Tech brings in another triple option guy. The fans want something different. That is abundantly clear to anyone in Atlanta. If it means a couple years of struggles while a new coach gets the right guys in the system (no one on the Tech roster can pass), the Tech fan base will gladly take those growing pains.

-Jason "this is a terrible job to take as Kirby is killing it at UGA and Tech will always be 2nd best in the state... that's not a good position to be in" Evans

Bob Green
11-28-2018, 04:35 PM
I would be beyond shocked if Tech brings in another triple option guy.

I agree with you 100 percent but one thing I've learned over the years is the obvious is not always obvious.

DDDuke
11-28-2018, 04:37 PM
Early whispers suggest that it's going to be Tony Elliott at Clemson: https://www.fromtherumbleseat.com/georgia-tech-football/2018/11/28/18116824/source-georgia-tech-zeroes-clemson-oc-tony-elliott-paul-johnson-retirement

arnie
11-28-2018, 04:41 PM
Im disappointed weve lost Fedora and Johnson as these are the only two ACC coaches weve beaten consistently in the past 5 years. If GaT and Cheater U improve, we must also get better.

Avvocato
11-28-2018, 05:32 PM
David Cutcliffe now has the longest uninterrupted tenure at any ACC school.

Johnson has recruited players designed for a very specific kind of offense. Assuming his successor does not want to run that offense, there may be a difficult adjustment period.

Stoops did an amazing job turning Oklahoma from its wishbone into a spread offense relatively quickly. You'll probably see several running backs (if they don't transfer) converted into wide receivers. It's always interesting seeing a coach come in and try to do a complete makeover. Here's hoping the next guy needs several years to accomplish it.

OldPhiKap
11-28-2018, 05:35 PM
Fedora is available.

devildeac
11-28-2018, 05:44 PM
LF is currently unemployed but will start collecting a large check very soon from a large public school in NC. :rolleyes:


Fedora is available.

Great minds and all that stuff ;).

wavedukefan70s
11-28-2018, 06:12 PM
Early whispers suggest that it's going to be Tony Elliott at Clemson: https://www.fromtherumbleseat.com/georgia-tech-football/2018/11/28/18116824/source-georgia-tech-zeroes-clemson-oc-tony-elliott-paul-johnson-retirement

I heard his name on sports radio for several jobs.

75Crazie
11-28-2018, 09:18 PM
Im disappointed weve lost Fedora and Johnson as these are the only two ACC coaches weve beaten consistently in the past 5 years. If GaT and Cheater U improve, we must also get better.
Cause and effect I'm betting that losing consistently to Duke was probably a contributing factor to both coaches being unemployed now.

arnie
11-29-2018, 06:04 AM
Cause and effect I'm betting that losing consistently to Duke was probably a contributing factor to both coaches being unemployed now.

Yea and Pitt, UVA coaches stay employed by beating Duke like a drum😕. We need to end those streaks.

YmoBeThere
11-29-2018, 07:18 AM
I'm curious, couldn't some of the critiques leveled at Paul Johnson be leveled at a basketball in Charlotesville?

HereBeforeCoachK
11-29-2018, 07:22 AM
I'm curious, couldn't some of the critiques leveled at Paul Johnson be leveled at a basketball in Charlotesville?

Yes they could, to some extent, and to some extent, they are. But some major differences:

UVa hoops last few years winning a lot more than GT football.
Tony Bennett a very cordial likable guy....Johnson, not so much.

A matter of degree...

OldPhiKap
11-29-2018, 07:26 AM
I'm curious, couldn't some of the critiques leveled at Paul Johnson be leveled at a basketball in Charlotesville?


Yes they could, to some extent, and to some extent, they are. But some major differences:

UVa hoops last few years winning a lot more than GT football.
Tony Bennett a very cordial likable guy...Johnson, not so much.

A matter of degree...

I think this nails it exactly. And I will add, I dont think UVA gets pasted by in-state rival VT on a consistent basis.

CrazyNotCrazie
11-29-2018, 08:27 AM
Yes they could, to some extent, and to some extent, they are. But some major differences:

UVa hoops last few years winning a lot more than GT football.
Tony Bennett a very cordial likable guy...Johnson, not so much.

A matter of degree...

And opponents don't hate UVA for putting their players at injury risk due to legal (but questionable) tactics.

PackMan97
11-29-2018, 08:34 AM
And opponents don't hate UVA for putting their players at injury risk due to legal (but questionable) tactics.

True...in that case you should have an issue with UVA boring fans to death?

HereBeforeCoachK
11-29-2018, 08:44 AM
True...in that case you should have an issue with UVA boring fans to death?

UVa has played Wisconsin two years in a row -- watching those games would be "cruel and unusual punishment" fo show.

OldPhiKap
11-29-2018, 08:56 AM
For me, watching UVA basketball and watching the triple option in football is similar. I think both are very interesting throwbacks that focus on fundamentals, and when done well are really pretty. But I couldn't make a steady diet of either one.

PackMan97
11-29-2018, 09:10 AM
If I were a UVa fan (and I'm not, when it comes to the state of Virginia my loyalty lies with the land grant university, Virginia Tech) and would have ZERO problems with their style of play. I've always been found of the saying, "Win cures all ills". UVa has proven one thing, they are very winning winners*

* cough umbc cough

HereBeforeCoachK
11-29-2018, 09:18 AM
If I were a UVa fan (and I'm not, when it comes to the state of Virginia my loyalty lies with the land grant university, Virginia Tech) and would have ZERO problems with their style of play. I've always been found of the saying, "Win cures all ills". UVa has proven one thing, they are very winning winners..
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...and the question is, if and when that winning slows down, what will the tolerance be for this style of play.....which was Johnson's problem. The winning slowed down. Then the style became a bigger factor.

When a high speed exciting team loses a disappointing game, no one complains about the style of play. When a boring team loses a similarly disappointing game, the style is a big issue. Pretty much true in all sports BTW.

chrishoke
11-29-2018, 09:21 AM
I am a huge Monken fan. But I doubt GT sticks with the option. Most fans seem to think it is dull; limits recruiting; and limits the ability to win if you are down by more than a score late in the game.

Personally, I like seeing the option. But probably not every weekend.

I'm with you. I will miss having the triple option in the ACC. Varity of styles adds interest that I enjoy.

OldPhiKap
11-29-2018, 09:23 AM
...and the question is, if and when that winning slows down, what will the tolerance be for this style of play...which was Johnson's problem. The winning slowed down. Then the style became a bigger factor.

When a high speed exciting team loses a disappointing game, no one complains about the style of play. When a boring team loses a similarly disappointing game, the style is a big issue. Pretty much true in all sports BTW.

I think the best example is Herb Sendek. Herb ran a truly boring offense (I don't think Packman will disagree). The biggest difference between Herb's tenure with State and Bennett's tenure at UVA so far is that one wins so it is embraced, while one was just meh so it was not.

PackMan97
11-29-2018, 09:37 AM
I think the best example is Herb Sendek. Herb ran a truly boring offense (I don't think Packman will disagree). The biggest difference between Herb's tenure with State and Bennett's tenure at UVA so far is that one wins so it is embraced, while one was just meh so it was not.

I was going to bring up old Herbus in my discussion but thought a state fan complaining about the best coach we've had in the past 25 years (not including the new guy) wasn't something worth the old wounds. Good lord we've had some stinker coaches. Thank goodness for Keatts.

As I said, winning cures all ills.

Herb never won anything of significance and that includes winning against Duke and Carolina on a regular basis.

HereBeforeCoachK
11-29-2018, 10:14 AM
I think the best example is Herb Sendek. Herb ran a truly boring offense (I don't think Packman will disagree). The biggest difference between Herb's tenure with State and Bennett's tenure at UVA so far is that one wins so it is embraced, while one was just meh so it was not.

Herb's offense was not the only thing boring about Herb. I mean, Herb himself was exhibit A......(he also helped Pitino decide NOT to put a man on Grant Hill with 2.1 seconds left....)

75Crazie
11-29-2018, 12:19 PM
If I were a UVa fan (and I'm not, when it comes to the state of Virginia my loyalty lies with the land grant university, Virginia Tech) and would have ZERO problems with their style of play. I've always been found of the saying, "Win cures all ills". UVa has proven one thing, they are very winning winners
I'm with you all the way, PackMan (I was delighted when VT beat UVA yet again in football).

I do not understand the very negative slant on the UVA basketball style on this board. Bennett coaches fundamental basketball and I for one am delighted that somebody still does that in this age of video hot takes. I personally find that style of basketball entertaining and refreshing. Then again, I know I'm a dinosaur regarding many things.