This Week in the ACC: 11/26-12/2

[pfrduke]

Not a banner series of pre-season tournaments for the ACC - Virginia, Virginia Tech, and Boston College are your only winners. Now we head right into the ACC/B1G with the ACC a slight favorite to repeat (conveniently, the Wake Forest team that lost to Houston Baptist is sitting this one out).

Monday

[24]Clemson (-4) hosts [31]Nebraska (7:00, ESPN2)
[71]Boston College (-1) hosts [45]Minnesota (9:00, ESPN2)

Tuesday

[126]Wake Forest (-16) hosts [324]Western Carolina (7:00, ACCNE)
[16]Virginia Tech (-1) at [38]Penn State (7:00, ESPN2)
[52]Notre Dame (-7) hosts [95]Illinois (7:00, ESPNU)
[59]Louisville (+5) hosts [8]Michigan State (7:30, ESPN)
[119]Pittsburgh (+13) at [32]Iowa (9:00, ESPNU)
[35]NC State (+8) at [12]Wisconsin (9:00, ESPN2)
[1]Duke (-11) hosts [22]Indiana (9:30, ESPN)

Wednesday

[20]Syracuse (+3) at [26]Ohio State (7:15, ESPN2)
[23]Miami (-13) hosts [114]Rutgers (7:15, ESPNU)
[3]Virginia (-3) at [33]Maryland (7:30, ESPN)
[14]Florida State (-3) hosts [13]Purdue (9:15, ESPN2)
[77]Georgia Tech (+7) at [46]Northwestern (9:15, ESPNU)
[4]North Carolina (+2) at [7]Michigan (9:30, ESPN)

Thursday

[71]Boston College (-19) hosts [318]Sacred Heart (7:00, ACCNE)

Friday

[119]Pittsburgh (-2) vs. [152]Duquesne in Pittsburgh (7:00, ACCNE)


Saturday

[77]Georgia Tech (+3) vs. [44] St. John's in Miami (12:00, ESPNU)
[59]Louisville (+3) at [54]Seton Hall (12:00, FOX)
[16]Virginia Tech (-22) hosts [242]Central Connecticut (5:00, ACCNE)
[35]NC State (-5) hosts [64]Vanderbilt (5:00, ESPN2)
[1]Duke (-38) hosts [339]Stetson (7:00, ESPN2)
[126]Wake Forest (+1) at [181]Richmond (7:30)
[23]Miami (-12) vs. [116]Yale in Miami (7:30, ESPN3)
[20]Syracuse (-23) hosts [256]Cornell (8:00, ESPNU)

Sunday is dark

ACC Non-Conference: 71-14
ACC vs. Power 5: 10-8

America East: 2-0
American: 2-1
Atlantic-10: 5-1
Atlantic Sun: 1-0
Big XII: 0-1
Big East: 1-4
Big Sky: 1-0
Big South: 2-1
Big Ten: 2-0
Big West: 1-0
Colon5al: 4-0
CUSA: 2-0
Horizon: 3-1
MAC: 3-0
MEAC: 5-0
MVC: 2-0
MWC: 3-0
Northeast: 6-0
Ohio Valley: 2-0
Pac-12: 2-1
Patriot: 2-1
SEC: 3-2
Southern: 6-0
Southland: 5-1
Sun Belt: 1-0
SWAC: 2-0
WAC: 2-0
WCC: 0-1

[Troublemaker]

For Duke fans that care about the outcome of the ACC-Big 10 challenge, the ACC has to rack up 8 wins before the ending of the UNC-Michigan game, which is the last game on the last night. Now, I expect you to root for Michigan regardless, even if the ACC is trailing 6-7 and will take a loss in the Challenge if UNC loses. Just saying, that's what we're looking at -- gotta win 8 out of 13 games by then, which makes every game extremely important, even the two tonight. If the ACC doesn't go 2-0 tonight, I'm not liking our chances of winning this Challenge.

(BTW, there's a chance that any previous talk of racking up 8 wins will look pretty silly by the end of this challenge...)

[devildeac]

For Duke fans that care about the outcome of the ACC-Big 10 challenge, the ACC has to rack up 8 wins before the ending of the UNC-Michigan game, which is the last game on the last night. Now, I expect you to root for Michigan regardless, even if the ACC is trailing 6-7 and will take a loss in the Challenge if UNC loses. Just saying, that's what we're looking at -- gotta win 8 out of 13 games by then, which makes every game extremely important, even the two tonight. If the ACC doesn't go 2-0 tonight, I'm not liking our chances of winning this Challenge.

(BTW, there's a chance that any previous talk of racking up 8 wins will look pretty silly by the end of this challenge...)

9F. Go Xichigan. If the ACC loses the challenge with a cheats loss, so be it. Then it means for eternity, we can heap burning coals and pastures full of bovine droppings on their scornful but deserving heads.

[robed deity]

I know The ACC is the slight betting favorite, but I do not like these home/road matchups. I'd be surprised if the ACC repeats. And I will be rooting for Michigan regardless.

[PackMan97]

I have no idea how NC State will do this week with Wisky and Vandy both on the schedule, but I do know when the week ends we will no longer have the nations wimpiest schedule played. :)

Expecting a split, but hoping for more.

[English]

I have no idea how NC State will do this week with Wisky and Vandy both on the schedule, but I do know when the week ends we will no longer have the nations wimpiest schedule played. :)

Expecting a split, but hoping for more.

The Darius Garland injury, while very disappointing for the projected lottery pick and, by every indication, all-around good guy, is good news for the Wolfpack this week. Sometimes these types of injuries can galvanize a team, but it's tough to imagine they'll be a tougher opponent without their best player.

For background (although not directly ACC-related), Garland has a torn meniscus, which typically takes 4-6wks to heal. Jimmy Butler tore his last season and returned almost exactly at the 6wk mark.

[JasonEvans]

Monday

[24]Clemson (-4) hosts [31]Nebraska (7:00, ESPN2)
[71]Boston College (-1) hosts [45]Minnesota (9:00, ESPN2)

Tuesday

[16]Virginia Tech (-1) at [38]Penn State (7:00, ESPN2)
[52]Notre Dame (-7) hosts [95]Illinois (7:00, ESPNU)
[59]Louisville (+5) hosts [8]Michigan State (7:30, ESPN)
[119]Pittsburgh (+13) at [32]Iowa (9:00, ESPNU)
[35]NC State (+8) at [12]Wisconsin (9:00, ESPN2)
[1]Duke (-11) hosts [22]Indiana (9:30, ESPN)

Wednesday

[20]Syracuse (+3) at [26]Ohio State (7:15, ESPN2)
[23]Miami (-13) hosts [114]Rutgers (7:15, ESPNU)
[3]Virginia (-3) at [33]Maryland (7:30, ESPN)
[14]Florida State (-3) hosts [13]Purdue (9:15, ESPN2)
[77]Georgia Tech (+7) at [46]Northwestern (9:15, ESPNU)
[4]North Carolina (+2) at [7]Michigan (9:30, ESPN)

So, looking at the projected lines, the ACC is favored in 8 of the matches. Among those are BC and Va Tech as narrow 1 point favorites. Virginia and FSU are also small 3-point picks. On the other side, the Big Ten has Michigan as a 2 point favorite and Ohio St at a 3 point pick.

But, one of the close lines seems really off to me. Virginia is just a 3 point pick over Maryland? I'll take the Cavs and those points every day of the week. Maryland hasn't played anybody even remotely decent yet (Navy? Hofstra?) and there's just no way they are ready to take on the Cavs defense. I was frustrated by Virginia's continued offensive ineptitude against Wisconsin, but it won't matter against Maryland, Virginia wins that game by double-digits.

Several of the games are bad mismatches. Rutgers will get killed by Miami. Pitt is going to be squashed by an Iowa team that is much better than preseason projections. I have a hard time seeing how Indiana will stay within 15 or 20 points of Duke.

Lastly, putting our emotions aside, how can you not be excited for the Michigan - UNC game? The Heels have one of the top scoring offenses in the game (96.6 ppg, #3 in KenPom) and Michigan has perhaps the nation's top defense (48.3 ppg allowed, #1 in KenPom). It will be fascinating to see which wins out.

-Jason "I see the ACC winning 8 games, but won't be shocked if the B10 pulls off the win this season" Evans

[PackMan97]

Lastly, putting our emotions aside, how can you not be excited for the Michigan - UNC game?

I have not forgiven Michigan for 1993.

[ChillinDuke]

So, looking at the projected lines, the ACC is favored in 8 of the matches. Among those are BC and Va Tech as narrow 1 point favorites. Virginia and FSU are also small 3-point picks. On the other side, the Big Ten has Michigan as a 2 point favorite and Ohio St at a 3 point pick.

But, one of the close lines seems really off to me. Virginia is just a 3 point pick over Maryland? I'll take the Cavs and those points every day of the week. Maryland hasn't played anybody even remotely decent yet (Navy? Hofstra?) and there's just no way they are ready to take on the Cavs defense. I was frustrated by Virginia's continued offensive ineptitude against Wisconsin, but it won't matter against Maryland, Virginia wins that game by double-digits.

Several of the games are bad mismatches. Rutgers will get killed by Miami. Pitt is going to be squashed by an Iowa team that is much better than preseason projections. I have a hard time seeing how Indiana will stay within 15 or 20 points of Duke.

Lastly, putting our emotions aside, how can you not be excited for the Michigan - UNC game? The Heels have one of the top scoring offenses in the game (96.6 ppg, #3 in KenPom) and Michigan has perhaps the nation's top defense (48.3 ppg allowed, #1 in KenPom). It will be fascinating to see which wins out.

-Jason "I see the ACC winning 8 games, but won't be shocked if the B10 pulls off the win this season" Evans

Will be interesting to see how that one turns out. The game is at Maryland, which is why the line is down to 3. That implies a neutral site game between those two teams would be around 7 pts. Perhaps not coincidentally UVA just beat Dayton and Wisco both neutral by, you guessed it, 7 pts.

My gut is inclined to agree with you. But objectively, 3 is the right number.

- Chillin

[pfrduke]

These are just the Kenpom spreads; wouldn’t surprise me if Vegas agrees with Jason and bumps that up to 5 or 6.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Trailing Nebraska by 4 with 14 to go....:rolleyes:

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Clemson beaten by Nebraska 68-66.....Wofford went to Columbia and spanked the Gamecocks.....79-61 with few seconds remaining.

[devildeac]

All even after the late game tonight with BC winning at home.

Go Xichigan!

[Indoor66]

Clemson beaten by Nebraska 68-66...Wofford went to Columbia and spanked the Gamecocks...79-61 with few seconds remaining.

Not completely bad for SC. Wofford is also in SC.

[JasonEvans]

I really did not see that Clemson loss coming. Sigh. I think we may need NCSt to pull off an upset tonight to feel good about winning the Challenge.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Not completely bad for SC. Wofford is also in SC.

Which is why I said bad "for the home teams." SC lost to Wofford in Columbia. Badly.

And I did fear the Clemson loss. Not sure I would have predicted it per se, but they always lose some ugly games early.....or so it seems. And Nebraska may be better than people realize.

[budwom]

great to see the Gamecocks continue to wander in the hardwood wilderness...leaving the ACC was a gargantually dumb move, done for the benefit of Pimento State football which has also failed to achieve the expected glory.

[JasonEvans]

great to see the Gamecocks continue to wander in the hardwood wilderness...leaving the ACC was a gargantually dumb move, done for the benefit of Pimento State football which has also failed to achieve the expected glory.

It has been 48 years... let go of your anger ;)

I did not recall that SC left the ACC to become an independent in 1970. They did not join the SEC until 1991... that was back in the day when being an independent wasn't really difficult to pull off in football.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

It has been 48 years... let go of your anger ;)

I did not recall that SC left the ACC to become an independent in 1970. They did not join the SEC until 1991... that was back in the day when being an independent wasn't really difficult to pull off in football.

yeah, they were indy for a while, then joined something called The Metro Conference, which at the time had FSU and Louisville in it. Some of SC's better teams faced some up and coming Bobby Bowden teams, and the SC - FSU series was a good one for a while. I'm not sure if they went from Metro straight to SEC, or were Indy again for a while. And I don't think the Metro was even a football conference come to think about it, it was mainly a basketball operation plus the non rev sports.

[JasonEvans]

yeah, they were indy for a while, then joined something called The Metro Conference, which at the time had FSU and Louisville in it. Some of SC's better teams faced some up and coming Bobby Bowden teams, and the SC - FSU series was a good one for a while. I'm not sure if they went from Metro straight to SEC, or were Indy again for a while. And I don't think the Metro was even a football conference come to think about it, it was mainly a basketball operation plus the non rev sports.

You are correct that the Metro never had football, but it was a fairly good basketball conference. Louisville was in it as was Ga Tech (though Tech was lousy at basketball back then). Memphis St was a real powerhouse member of the Metro.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

You are correct that the Metro never had football, but it was a fairly good basketball conference. Louisville was in it as was Ga Tech (though Tech was lousy at basketball back then). Memphis St was a real powerhouse member of the Metro.

UNCC had a few solid years in that conference too.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

You are correct that the Metro never had football, but it was a fairly good basketball conference. Louisville was in it as was Ga Tech (though Tech was lousy at basketball back then). Memphis St was a real powerhouse member of the Metro.

I had forgotten that Memphis and Tech were in it.....come to think of it, wasn't VT in it for a while? Seems to me I remember people making fun of Blacksburg as a "metro" area......

[UVa1981]

Will be interesting to see how that one turns out. The game is at Maryland, which is why the line is down to 3. That implies a neutral site game between those two teams would be around 7 pts. Perhaps not coincidentally UVA just beat Dayton and Wisco both neutral by, you guessed it, 7 pts.

My gut is inclined to agree with you. But objectively, 3 is the right number.

- Chillin

I'm not sure what to expect, and I watch most UVa games at least twice. ; - ) Early on, it looked like Bennett was experimenting a lot (hangover from last year's last game?), both on offense and defense. There was a bit more fast break and a lot more 3/4 court press. The fast break has tailed off lately, though the 3/4 court press continues, coupled with in-your-chest defense on the opposing team's primary ballhandler by Kihei Clark (held Trice, Wisconsin high-scoring PG, to 5 points). Salt looks like he's taken Wilkins' defensive role (Happ was 4-11 when guarded by Salt, 7-8 when guarded by the rest of the team).

Bennett has his first seven: Jerome, Guy, Hunter, Salt, Key, Clark, and Diakite. Huff had been getting some burn (but not against Wisconsin), followed by Anthony (again, not against Wisconsin). I'm guessing that hold true to form against Maryland.

IMO, if Maryland were still in the ACC, this game would be dripping with bad blood and a pick 'em. As it stands, I think UVa wins by 8-12 but, since it's a home game for Maryland...

[English]

The Darius Garland injury, while very disappointing for the projected lottery pick and, by every indication, all-around good guy, is good news for the Wolfpack this week. Sometimes these types of injuries can galvanize a team, but it's tough to imagine they'll be a tougher opponent without their best player.

For background (although not directly ACC-related), Garland has a torn meniscus, which typically takes 4-6wks to heal. Jimmy Butler tore his last season and returned almost exactly at the 6wk mark.

Unfortunate (and peripheral to the thread...apologies) follow-up: Darius Garland has now been ruled out for the season with his meniscus tear. Originally believed to be a 4-6wk recovery, Vandy's coach has said that he had successful knee surgery. My hunch is that with rest & rehab, he may have made it back (a la Jimmy Butler), but surgery ends the season (although is likely better for his long-term prognosis). Tough blow for a nice player. His lottery/first round prospects seem less sure now than a week ago, clearly.

[OldPhiKap]

Unfortunate (and peripheral to the thread...apologies) follow-up: Darius Garland has now been ruled out for the season with his meniscus tear. Originally believed to be a 4-6wk recovery, Vandy's coach has said his injury is season-ending. Tough blow for a great player. His lottery/first round prospects seem less sure now than a week ago, clearly. Really tough news for hoops fans, even outside of Nashville.

Very sorry to hear that. Best of luck with a full recovery and productive rehab.

[Green Wave Dukie]

I had forgotten that Memphis and Tech were in it...come to think of it, wasn't VT in it for a while? Seems to me I remember people making fun of Blacksburg as a "metro" area...

Ha, there were a few other schools in there, too. Cincinnati was in there, and one other school I can think of from Louisiana 😜.

When I was there in the mid 80s there were quite a few hoop stars. In addition to the Louisville teams, Keith Lee was a multi-all conference player for Memphis State. (now, back to your regularly scheduled 2018 thread)

[duketaylor]

Louisville off to good start.

[JasonEvans]

Va Tech losing to Penn State... bad for the league, bad for VaTech's NCAA chances, just bad bad bad bad.

We ain't winning the challenge this year, I think. I'm not sure it matters all that much if one league wins 8-6 or maybe even 9-5. If it gets to 10-4 or worse, that can be seen as compelling evidence that one league is vastly superior to the other and could come into play for bubble teams at tourney time.

[PackMan97]

Va Tech losing to Penn State... bad for the league, bad for VaTech's NCAA chances, just bad bad bad bad.

Well...we could wait for the scores to go final.

Penn State misses the the front end of two one and ones in the final minute to crap it away.

[fuse]

With the help of google, today I learned Penn State’s original colours were pink and black.

[MChambers]

Va Tech losing to Penn State... bad for the league, bad for VaTech's NCAA chances, just bad bad bad bad.

We ain't winning the challenge this year, I think. I'm not sure it matters all that much if one league wins 8-6 or maybe even 9-5. If it gets to 10-4 or worse, that can be seen as compelling evidence that one league is vastly superior to the other and could come into play for bubble teams at tourney time.

VPI goes down by 1. Maybe they can have their usual bubble spot, like they always did with Greenberg?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

VPI goes down by 1. Maybe they can have their usual bubble spot, like they always did with Greenberg?

...and they always do it by gagging in the early season before they have their fantasy island super bowl biggest moment of life ever against Duke.....before they drop through the bubble yet again. So predictable.

[duketaylor]

ND survives by 2

[HereBeforeCoachK]

ND survives by 2

meanwhile, the officials are trying to get Mich State by UL......

[PackMan97]

meanwhile, the officials are trying to get Mich State by UL...

Michigan State goes down.

ACC goes up 3-2.

State fighting it out with Wisky, up 1 with 3 minutes to go.
Pitt and Iowa in a battle as well with Iowa having a 3 point edge with 4 to go.

[PackMan97]

Pitt goes down by 1.
State misses a three for the win and loses by 2.

Duke shouldn't have hoarded all the baskets for their own tonight.

[devildeac]

VPI goes down by 1. Maybe they can have their usual bubble spot, like they always did with Greenberg?

Nah, they'll play like ACC/National champs when we play them with Buzz flailing and sweating on the court, out of the coaches' box for at least half the game with no T. :mad:

[BD80]

Pitt goes down by 1.
State misses a three for the win and loses by 2.

Duke shouldn't have hoarded all the baskets for their own tonight.

ACC with a big lead in total points ...

[arnie]

Va Tech losing to Penn State... bad for the league, bad for VaTech's NCAA chances, just bad bad bad bad.

We ain't winning the challenge this year, I think. I'm not sure it matters all that much if one league wins 8-6 or maybe even 9-5. If it gets to 10-4 or worse, that can be seen as compelling evidence that one league is vastly superior to the other and could come into play for bubble teams at tourney time.

Wow, talk about overreaction. ACC is 4-4 and favored tonight on 3 of the 5 games. I expect (hope) this challenge is wrapped up before Cheats lose big to Michigan.

[OldPhiKap]

ACC with a big lead in total points ...

So if there is a tie breaker, we’re looking good on goal differential!

[devildeac]

So if there is a tie breaker, we’re looking good on goal differential!

Plus, the acc gets bonus points for Duke's blue beauty and style which more than cancels out c*rolina ugly. 9F. Go Wolverines.

[OldPhiKap]

Plus, the acc gets bonus points for Duke's blue beauty and style which more than cancels out c*rolina ugly. 9F. Go Wolverines.

Ich bin ein Wolverine. r.

[JasonEvans]

Wow, talk about overreaction.

At the time I wrote my note, I had not even begun to consider the possibility that Louisville would beat Michigan St. My bad and way to go Cards!

At this point, I think the challenge is somewhat meaningless. At 4-4, all it takes is each team winning at least 1 of the 6 games tonight (I'd say Miami and NWestern are 85%+ to win their games with Rutgers and GaTech) for the final result to be 9-5 or closer. I just don't see 9-5 as a number that meaningfully changes opinions about these two leagues. Plus, I think 8-6 or 7-7 is much more likely for the final result which would end up being a shrug in the quest to see which league is better. The winner will likely depend upon which conference can win 2 of the 3 coin toss games between Mich-UNC, FSU-Purdue, and Syr-tOSU.

[AGDukesky]

At the time I wrote my note, I had not even begun to consider the possibility that Louisville would beat Michigan St. My bad and way to go Cards!

At this point, I think the challenge is somewhat meaningless. At 4-4, all it takes is each team winning at least 1 of the 6 games tonight (I'd say Miami and NWestern are 85%+ to win their games with Rutgers and GaTech) for the final result to be 9-5 or closer. I just don't see 9-5 as a number that meaningfully changes opinions about these two leagues. Plus, I think 8-6 or 7-7 is much more likely for the final result which would end up being a shrug in the quest to see which league is better. The winner will likely depend upon which conference can win 2 of the 3 coin toss games between Mich-UNC, FSU-Purdue, and Syr-tOSU.
I basically agree and think you learn more from the individual matchups unless one conference clearly dominates. Duke spanking IU is generally a good indication for the ACC but doesn’t really tell us anything new. OTOH, Pitt almost winning at Iowa bodes better for the quality of the ACC than the Big Whatever. Tonight’s games have the more telling matchups for evaluating the comparative strength of the two conferences- although the my guess is the ACC will do no better than 7-7 given most of the bigger matchups are on the road. Also, go Michigan!

[Troublemaker]

At the time I wrote my note, I had not even begun to consider the possibility that Louisville would beat Michigan St. My bad and way to go Cards!

The Louisville upset of MSU was a lifesaver. I do give the ACC a decent chance now to reach 8 wins (oh heck, I'll go ahead and predict it). Not that I care THAT much about winning -- the fans of other ACC teams were probably rooting for Indiana last night, right?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

T Not that I care THAT much about winning -- the fans of other ACC teams were probably rooting for Indiana last night, right?

THIS ^^^^^ cannot be over stated. The ACC invented the conference cheer ("A-C-C!") in the 70s. Now the mindless obscene hatred towards Duke from every member of the league has ruined any givadam about the rest of the league. Heck, the hateful SEC has more league camaraderie now than the ACC by far. Didn't use to be that way. The only reason I care at all is that the ACC membership and the rivalry with the Cheats will be more important to Duke staying relevant when K leaves.

That said, I did root for the ACC teams last night.

[MChambers]

The Louisville upset of MSU was a lifesaver. I do give the ACC a decent chance now to reach 8 wins (oh heck, I'll go ahead and predict it). Not that I care THAT much about winning -- the fans of other ACC teams were probably rooting for Indiana last night, right?

It definitely was. Sure helped that MSU was missing a starter, McQuaid. And when Winston fouled out, that became even more important, since McQuaid is basically the backup point guard.

[cato]

The Louisville upset of MSU was a lifesaver. I do give the ACC a decent chance now to reach 8 wins (oh heck, I'll go ahead and predict it). Not that I care THAT much about winning -- the fans of other ACC teams were probably rooting for Indiana last night, right?

I was working yesterday afternoon and last night, so not really thinking about basketball. At some point, I checked the scores to see how the ACC was doing, and had to actively remind myself which teams were in the ACC . . .

[rasputin]

THIS ^^^^^ cannot be over stated. The ACC invented the conference cheer ("A-C-C!") in the 70s. Now the mindless obscene hatred towards Duke from every member of the league has ruined any givadam about the rest of the league. Heck, the hateful SEC has more league camaraderie now than the ACC by far. Didn't use to be that way. The only reason I care at all is that the ACC membership and the rivalry with the Cheats will be more important to Duke staying relevant when K leaves.

That said, I did root for the ACC teams last night.

And I'll root for the ACC teams tonight: all except one.

[Reddevil]

And I'll root for the ACC teams tonight: all except one.

Ah, the ACC / B1G Challenge, when ACC and ABC are synonymous. I was pulling hard for State and Pitt last night. I will be pulling particularly hard for UVA tonight, along with the Wolverines!

[OldPhiKap]

Ah, the ACC / B1G Challenge, when ACC and ABC are synonymous. I was pulling hard for State and Pitt last night. I will be pulling particularly hard for UVA tonight, along with the Wolverines!

I'm watching Red Dawn as soon as I get home. Wolverines!!!!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

And I'll root for the ACC teams tonight: all except one.

As will I - but we need to understand that all those teams we pull for tonight - their fans prolly were hoping Duke would go down last night.

[MChambers]

The Orange are leading the NCAA NET’s #1 team, on the road.

[dukelifer]

Virginia make no mistakes. Annoyingly good team that I still do not trust in March.

[MChambers]

Virginia make no mistakes. Annoyingly good team that I still do not trust in March.

And UVa is showing it can beat a state school from Maryland!

[Ballboy1998]

As will I - but we need to understand that all those teams we pull for tonight - their fans prolly were hoping Duke would go down last night.

I root for the other ACC teams in this and other non-conference games for the entirely selfish reason of wanting to improve Duke's strength of schedule and help Duke's ultimate seeding in the NCAA tourney.

I am willing to make one exception for the non-Student Athletes down the road.

[UVa1981]

As will I - but we need to understand that all those teams we pull for tonight - their fans prolly were hoping Duke would go down last night.

I'm guessing some do. Some now root against UVa, for various reasons. I wouldn't worry about it; the only team I root against, OOC, is UNC. And that's only occasionally.

[duketaylor]

'Cuse wins!! Gonna be a close shootout, as if it matters. GO WOLVERINES!!!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

'Cuse wins!! Gonna be a close shootout, as if it matters. GO WOLVERINES!!!

UVa gonna hold on, after trying to blow it....Miami was tanking last I heard...UPDATE: Miami did lose to Rutgers, in Miami. They're so bad pre conference sometimes.

FSU and GT off to bad starts. 6-5 ACC

[UrinalCake]

CHeats getting the benefit of a home whistle, despite being on the road. Maye lowers his shoulder and bowls into his defender, gets the blocking call. Then climbs all over the back for a rebound, gets another foul call on Michigan.

Overall an entertaining game though.

[devildeac]

UVa gonna hold on, after trying to blow it...Miami was tanking last I heard...UPDATE: Miami did lose to Rutgers, in Miami. They're so bad pre conference sometimes.

FSU and GT off to bad starts. 6-5 ACC

Yet, when Miami plays Duke, it'll be their Super Bowl/World Series/Stanley Cup. :mad:

[dukelifer]

CHeats getting the benefit of a home whistle, despite being on the road. Maye lowers his shoulder and bowls into his defender, gets the blocking call. Then climbs all over the back for a rebound, gets another foul call on Michigan.

Overall an entertaining game though.

White is a dynamic scorer. He is Carolina's best player. Michigan's Frosh Brazdeikis is one tough and skilled kid.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

CHeats getting the benefit of a home whistle, despite being on the road. Maye lowers his shoulder and bowls into his defender, gets the blocking call. Then climbs all over the back for a rebound, gets another foul call on Michigan.

Overall an entertaining game though.
Ol Roy doesn’t need to use time outs when he can rely on the zebras to kill UM’s momentum with their whistles.

[CoachJ10]

Ol Roy doesn’t need to use time outs when he can rely on the zebras to kill UM’s momentum with their whistles.

But the refs have been decidely pro michigan tonight. Man, if we hand checked as much as UN does, Joey Baker would have to give up his redshirt and get on the court because everyone else would have been fouled out. The 90s Pistons would be proud of these guys.

There is no reason for White to not play the entire 2nd half...he is by far the Holes best player.

[MrPoon]

Roy seems committed to keeping Little for another year. He can’t go to the NBA if scouts don’t see him play. Smart move Roy, smart move. I feel like we’ve seen this story before.

By the way, anyone notice UVa had a total of 2 TOs in their game against Bit Ten team Maryland?

[indy1duke]

There is no reason for White to not play the entire 2nd half...he is by far the Holes best player.

Except that Roy has to play everybody regardless of skill. It could be a tough stretch for the cheats with some of their upcoming games.

Little is not looking like a lottery pick this game. Maybe he can return for the next three years for further instruction from Roy.

[UrinalCake]

This might be Roy's best coaching job ever. So far he has managed to

- scowl
- frown
- huff and puff
- sit with his arms folded in a stern way
- take out his starters once the deficit got to 10, which had the wonderful effect of ballooning the deficit to 17

And yeah, I am busting out the good china for this pie bet that I'm going to win once Little returns for his sophomore year.

[tbyers11]

This might be Roy's best coaching job ever. So far he has managed to

- scowl
- frown
- huff and puff
- sit with his arms folded in a stern way
- take out his starters once the deficit got to 10, which had the wonderful effect of ballooning the deficit to 17

And yeah, I am busting out the good china for this pie bet that I'm going to win once Little returns for his sophomore year.

He also called a time out before the last 2 minutes of a game. That's pretty impressive :D

[VA_BDevil]

Anyone know why Florida State is wearing that ugly shade of blue tonight?

[CoachJ10]

Anyone know why Florida State is wearing that ugly shade of blue tonight?

This is meant with all due respect...but Leonard Hamilton is a really, really bad in game coach.

[tbyers11]

Anyone know why Florida State is wearing that ugly shade of blue tonight?

Full story here (https://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/2018/11/28/why-florida-state-basketball-wearing-blue-uniforms-vs-purdue-fsu/2145229002/)


FSU wore bright blue uniforms that are intended to "celebrate Native American Heritage Month and our relationship with the Seminole Tribe of Florida.

[Ian]

Michigan might be the best defensive team in the country, better than UVA. Can we hire that defensive specialist and have him be K's assistant instead?

[PackMan97]

Carolina....hahaha! Belein has done an amazing job at Michigan. Didn't expect that.

[JasonEvans]

FSU with a big comeback and last second bucket to give the ACC a 7-7 tie after the rest of the late games all went for the B!G.

Not that it matters.

[El_Diablo]

Heels looked good.

[arnie]

Except that Roy has to play everybody regardless of skill. It could be a tough stretch for the cheats with some of their upcoming games.

Little is not looking like a lottery pick this game. Maybe he can return for the next three years for further instruction from Roy.

We need a poll: who stays in Chapel Hell longer; Mack or Little?

[Troublemaker]

It was always unrealistic that the ACC would have 3 of the top 4 teams (kenpom) in the country. I mean, while physically possible, it's just really, really, unlikely, so the shoe had to drop for one of the 3 teams. I think we now know which team is the turd in the ACC elite punch bowl.

Nassir Little - 4 points in 16 minutes. He really IS going to stay all 4 years, isn't he? God, I hate that program.

[dukelifer]

Michigan might be the best defensive team in the country, better than UVA. Can we hire that defensive specialist and have him be K's assistant instead?

Good defense requires players that stay together. Michigan plays very good D but much better O than Virginia. Both teams play D without fouling much.

[dukelifer]

It was always unrealistic that the ACC would have 3 of the top 4 teams (kenpom) in the country. I mean, while physically possible, it's just really, really, unlikely, so the shoe had to drop for one of the 3 teams. I think we now know which team is the turd in the ACC elite punch bowl.

Nassir Little - 4 points in 16 minutes. He really IS going to stay all 4 years, isn't he? God, I hate that program.

Little just needs one break out game and he is gone. It will probably be against Duke. He is a kid that feels he needs to start. An injury will likely put him there and that will be that.

[OldPhiKap]

For once, I agree with Roy (https://abc11.com/sports/roy-williams-irate-after-ugly-loss-to-michigan-says-my-coaching-sucks/4786144/)

[OldPhiKap]

Meanwhile, IC is in mid-season form already. From a thread entitled “The next time Roy decides not to coach:”


Please let us know ahead of time. So I don't stay up to watch this garbage. Pouting like a child. He blew through an 8 point first half lead because he didn't want to call a timeout. His team doesn't play defense because he doesn't know how to coach it. Never has.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Meanwhile, IC is in mid-season form already. From a thread entitled “The next time Roy decides not to coach:”
Visit ICMeltdown on twitter and save yourself the need for an extra shower!

[OldPhiKap]

Visit ICMeltdown on twitter and save yourself the need for an extra shower!

One of my favorite follows.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Visit ICMeltdown on twitter and save yourself the need for an extra shower!
Well heck, they're a football school now. It's all part of the plan. Mack wanted it this way.

[OldPhiKap]

Well heck, they're a football school now. It's all part of the plan. Mack wanted it this way.

Thankfully, ICmeltdown covered football too.

[Faustus]

From my (admittedly far from comprehensive) observations of the Big11 challenge, I'd roughly rate the ACC teams' performances thusly:

Duke did quite well, of course

Louisville (whom I don't really consider a true ACC member, and in fact their whole athletic dept. should have been shut down by now, but then so should UNC's and Michigan State's...). Big win and a much better team than I'd expected.

Syracuse - finally got their point guard in place so really can be seen to have re-booted their season after a most disappointing performance beforehand. Could still have a good season, although OSU was probably over-rated too, but a road win all the same.

BC - they're not going anywhere this year, but still a nice win over another Pitino who also is likely gone after this season.

UVa - I actually didn't watch this, but I gather blew a huge lead (probably confused by having to wear their home uniforms) yet got their act together at the end, on the road. Not really a #4 in nation performance, but still ok.

FSU, tried to lose this, but Purdue wanted to lose it more.

Pitt - I know they lost, and couldn't hold on at the end, but leading a supposed #14 team on the road until final minutes with that talent, has to be encouraging for Jeff Capel

Notre Dame - saw none of this, and they just did survive at home against a not great team, but ACC is running out of wins at all at this point

NC State - Also couldn't make plays at the end, but that's a decent team, Wisconsin, and finally a road game against a decent team. Could have been worse.

Miami Not sure how good they were supposed to be and Rutgers may not be bad, but still losing at home to them is not encouraging

Clemson - Nebraska is actually supposed to be pretty good this year, but this was a home game Clemson should have won I suspect, and again, couldn't make plays at the end

VT - Same about not making plays down at the end, but at least on the road, although this is Penn State we're talking about, and VT was supposed to be Top 20, even if very thin roster.

GT - Didn't see but apparently just deplorable performance at NW.

UNC - Really stunk it up in the last 30 minutes, although may have played the best team by far, on the road, of the challenge.

[devildeac]

It was always unrealistic that the ACC would have 3 of the top 4 teams (kenpom) in the country. I mean, while physically possible, it's just really, really, unlikely, so the shoe had to drop for one of the 3 teams. I think we now know which team is the turd in the ACC elite punch bowl.

Nassir Little - 4 points in 16 minutes. He really IS going to stay all 4 years, isn't he? God, I hate that program.

Unless, of course, he pulls a Tony Bradley :rolleyes:.

Who are the 2 DBR folks who have a pie bet on 1 year or more than 1 year with Little? Are you one of them?

And, BTW, "u"nc has always been the turd in the punch bowl.:p

[devildeac]

For once, I agree with Roy (https://abc11.com/sports/roy-williams-irate-after-ugly-loss-to-michigan-says-my-coaching-sucks/4786144/)

LOL. He threw himself under the bus. I hope it left multiple sets of tire tracks. :)

[JasonEvans]

For once, I agree with Roy (https://abc11.com/sports/roy-williams-irate-after-ugly-loss-to-michigan-says-my-coaching-sucks/4786144/)

Oh, I don't think this is the first time you've agreed with Roy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy7ILTJILL0

[Truth&Justise]

From my (admittedly far from comprehensive) observations of the Big11 challenge, I'd roughly rate the ACC teams' performances thusly:

Duke did quite well, of course

Louisville (whom I don't really consider a true ACC member, and in fact their whole athletic dept. should have been shut down by now, but then so should UNC's and Michigan State's...). Big win and a much better team than I'd expected.

Syracuse - finally got their point guard in place so really can be seen to have re-booted their season after a most disappointing performance beforehand. Could still have a good season, although OSU was probably over-rated too, but a road win all the same.

BC - they're not going anywhere this year, but still a nice win over another Pitino who also is likely gone after this season.

UVa - I actually didn't watch this, but I gather blew a huge lead (probably confused by having to wear their home uniforms) yet got their act together at the end, on the road. Not really a #4 in nation performance, but still ok.

FSU, tried to lose this, but Purdue wanted to lose it more.

Pitt - I know they lost, and couldn't hold on at the end, but leading a supposed #14 team on the road until final minutes with that talent, has to be encouraging for Jeff Capel

Notre Dame - saw none of this, and they just did survive at home against a not great team, but ACC is running out of wins at all at this point

NC State - Also couldn't make plays at the end, but that's a decent team, Wisconsin, and finally a road game against a decent team. Could have been worse.

Miami Not sure how good they were supposed to be and Rutgers may not be bad, but still losing at home to them is not encouraging

Clemson - Nebraska is actually supposed to be pretty good this year, but this was a home game Clemson should have won I suspect, and again, couldn't make plays at the end

VT - Same about not making plays down at the end, but at least on the road, although this is Penn State we're talking about, and VT was supposed to be Top 20, even if very thin roster.

GT - Didn't see but apparently just deplorable performance at NW.

UNC - Really stunk it up in the last 30 minutes, although may have played the best team by far, on the road, of the challenge.

I blame Miami for the ACC not winning.

[PackMan97]

I blame Miami for the ACC not winning.

I blame State for not winning. We were the better team for 38 minutes but couldn't close the deal.

[NSDukeFan]

I blame Miami for the ACC not winning.


I blame State for not winning. We were the better team for 38 minutes but couldn't close the deal.

Yeah, but Rutgers.

[sagegrouse]

I blame State for not winning. We were the better team for 38 minutes but couldn't close the deal.

I really thought the ACC was gonna gack up the trophy by losing all three of the late games Wednesday night. I mean, seriously. UNC was close at halftime and then just folded. GT at one time trailed Northwestern 52-26. FSU recovered to win only because of its defense, which caused numerous turnovers from Purdue. The FSU offense was painful to watch, except for that runner with five seconds to go.

[Reddevil]

Can someone tell me why FL St. was wearing that hideous shade of blue last night? I was pulling for the ACC to tie the challenge, but that was hard to watch. Garnet and gold people. Garnet and gold.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Can someone tell me why FL St. was wearing that hideous shade of blue last night? I was pulling for the ACC to tie the challenge, but that was hard to watch. Garnet and gold people. Garnet and gold.

Someone last night relayed that it was some sort of homage to the Seminole tribe.

[Troublemaker]

I blame Miami for the ACC not winning.


I blame State for not winning. We were the better team for 38 minutes but couldn't close the deal.

Pretty much. The Challenge was technically a tie but I'd argue that the ACC got the better of it. (Not that it matters). The difference came down to Pitt and NCSU not quite being able to pull off their big road upsets while Rutgers unfortunately was able to at Miami.

We were a bit unlucky on coin flips in this Challenge.

[devildeac]

Pretty much. The Challenge was technically a tie but I'd argue that the ACC got the better of it. (Not that it matters). The difference came down to Pitt and NCSU not quite being able to pull off their big road upsets while Rutgers unfortunately was able to at Miami.

We were a bit unlucky on coin flips in this Challenge.

Did we win on point differential? With the GT comeback, the cheats may have cost us. :rolleyes:

[JasonEvans]

Someone last night relayed that it was some sort of homage to the Seminole tribe.

Are Seminoles color blind or something? How is that color a tribute to them? Here is their logo:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Flag_of_the_Seminole_Tribe_of_Florida.PNG

[PackMan97]

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/11/turquoise-uniforms-native-american-oregon-state-florida-state

Why turquoise? New Mexico Athletics explained in a press release:

The turquoise color is deeply symbolic of friendship and community in Native American culture, reflecting the support of four schools to elevate the power of sport both inside and outside Native communities.

[OldPhiKap]

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/11/turquoise-uniforms-native-american-oregon-state-florida-state

Why turquoise? New Mexico Athletics explained in a press release:

The turquoise color is deeply symbolic of friendship and community in Native American culture, reflecting the support of four schools to elevate the power of sport both inside and outside Native communities.

One of the things I love about New Mexico is how much Native American culture is at the forefront. It’s truly part of the fabric, or at least seems so to this visitor.

FSU has worked closely with the Seminole Nation for decades to honor them, and not make them an appropriated characature.

Bravo for this.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

One of the things I love about New Mexico is how much Native American culture is at the forefront. It’s truly part of the fabric, or at least seems so to this visitor.

FSU has worked closely with the Seminole Nation for decades to honor them, and not make them an appropriated characature.

Bravo for this.

And let's face it.....all of the mascots inspired by Native American warriors are doing this as a COMPLIMENT....you don't name your child, or your franchise, etc, after something to make fun of it. This whole thing is bass ackwards.

[OldPhiKap]

And let's face it....all of the mascots inspired by Native American warriors are doing this as a COMPLIMENT...you don't name your child, or your franchise, etc, after something to make fun of it. This whole thing is bass ackwards.

Well, there is a pro football team in D.C. whose detractors may beg to differ. But for the most part, yeah.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Well, there is a pro football team in D.C. whose detractors may beg to differ. But for the most part, yeah.

The original owner of the Skins made it clear that is precisely what he intended....."hail to the Redskins...hail victory.....chiefs on the warpath....fight...for ole...DC...."

[Indoor66]

The original owner of the Skins made it clear that is precisely what he intended...."hail to the Redskins...hail victory....chiefs on the warpath...fight...for ole...DC..."

Now now, don't interfere with a good indignation.

[sagegrouse]

The original owner of the Skins made it clear that is precisely what he intended...."hail to the Redskins...hail victory....chiefs on the warpath...fight...for ole...DC..."

Uh...., It used to be "fight for ol' Dixie." That was back in the 1950's. I don't know when the lyrics changed.

[DU82]

The original owner of the Skins made it clear that is precisely what he intended...."hail to the Redskins...hail victory....chiefs on the warpath...fight...for ole...DC..."

Of course, when George Marshall acquired the team he named them the Braves, the BOSTON Braves, after the Stadium they played in, and their co -tenants. They didn’t become the Redskins until they moved out of Braves Field to Fenway the next year.

[PackMan97]

Of course, when George Marshall acquired the team he named them the Braves, the BOSTON Braves, after the Stadium they played in, and their co -tenants. They didn’t become the Redskins until they moved out of Braves Field to Fenway the next year.

It amazes me that the Redskins or Seminoles get flack for their mascot, but the Tarheels never for theirs.

https://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2016/11/tar-heel-meaning-evolved-from-derogatory-to-proud

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

And let's face it....all of the mascots inspired by Native American warriors are doing this as a COMPLIMENT...you don't name your child, or your franchise, etc, after something to make fun of it. This whole thing is bass ackwards.

I would argue that the Seattle Seahawks, with their mascot, totem logo, and numerous homages to NW native culture is a FAR more of a compliment than the, um, team in DC, which according to one recent survey offends 86% of surveyed Native Americans.

I also find the FSU tribute very classy. Transcending their traditional colors to honor something bigger than the university in a very respectful way. Similar to when Duke was one of the teams honoring our armed services with the camo jerseys a few years ago, or the numerous pink campaigns for Susan B Kormen you see across sports every year.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I would argue that the Seattle Seahawks, with their mascot, totem logo, and numerous homages to NW native culture is a FAR more of a compliment than the, um, team in DC, which according to one recent survey offends 86% of surveyed Native Americans.

I also find the FSU tribute very classy. Transcending their traditional colors to honor something bigger than the university in a very respectful way. Similar to when Duke was one of the teams honoring our armed services with the camo jerseys a few years ago, or the numerous pink campaigns for Susan B Kormen you see across sports every year.

I would argue that the Seahawk's honoring is totally irrelevant to any other team. Same for FSU. And Duke and Camo. Both are fine, but we're talking about mascots for crying out loud. We need to grow up and figure out if a mascot is an honor or a taunt. Because there's plenty of meat eating heterosexual white men as mascots too...Patriots, Minutemen, Packers, 49ers, Tar Heels - and historically, even Midshipmen and Cadets...
and after more coffee I'm sure I could come up with more. Oh, Demon Deacons....obviously with Baptist school, historically, talking about white men. I'm sure more will hit me. The bottom line is, if using a mascot related to Native Americans is insulting, then that means mascots are insulting on their face. So we're insulting white men and Native Americans in droves if that's the case.

But that's not the case. These are mascots for crying out loud. We cheer FOR them, and they were created to be cheered for...be they animal, vegetable or mineral, black or white or red.

And spare the surveys. Remember, 4 out of 5 doctors....and your mileage may vary.

[Spanarkel]

I would argue that the Seahawk's honoring is totally irrelevant to any other team. Same for FSU. And Duke and Camo. Both are fine, but we're talking about mascots for crying out loud. We need to grow up and figure out if a mascot is an honor or a taunt. Because there's plenty of meat eating heterosexual white men as mascots too...Patriots, Minutemen, Packers, 49ers, Tar Heels - and historically, even Midshipmen and Cadets...
and after more coffee I'm sure I could come up with more. Oh, Demon Deacons...obviously with Baptist school, historically, talking about white men. I'm sure more will hit me. The bottom line is, if using a mascot related to Native Americans is insulting, then that means mascots are insulting on their face. So we're insulting white men and Native Americans in droves if that's the case.

But that's not the case. These are mascots for crying out loud. We cheer FOR them, and they were created to be cheered for...be they animal, vegetable or mineral, black or white or red.

And spare the surveys. Remember, 4 out of 5 doctors...and your mileage may vary.

PLEASE don't tell me that you don't find the Cleveland Indians' Chief Wahoo logo insulting(fortunately gone after the end of last season).

[OldPhiKap]

PLEASE don't tell me that you don't find the Cleveland Indians' Chief Wahoo logo insulting(fortunately gone after the end of last season).

The Braves retired Chief Knockahoma many moons ago.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

PLEASE don't tell me that you don't find the Cleveland Indians' Chief Wahoo logo insulting(fortunately gone after the end of last season).

That was a little too goofy I admit....so I didn't find it insulting but I can see how others did and I'm fine with it being gone. That's totally different than the entire concept of having "Indians" etc as your mascot being insulting. People who have that concept are goofy.

FWIW my oldest brother grew up an Indians fan, and had that logo on a pennant hanging in his room. He's the least insulting guy I've ever known.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I would argue that the Seahawk's honoring is totally irrelevant to any other team. Same for FSU. And Duke and Camo. Both are fine, but we're talking about mascots for crying out loud. We need to grow up and figure out if a mascot is an honor or a taunt. Because there's plenty of meat eating heterosexual white men as mascots too...Patriots, Minutemen, Packers, 49ers, Tar Heels - and historically, even Midshipmen and Cadets...
and after more coffee I'm sure I could come up with more. Oh, Demon Deacons...obviously with Baptist school, historically, talking about white men. I'm sure more will hit me. The bottom line is, if using a mascot related to Native Americans is insulting, then that means mascots are insulting on their face. So we're insulting white men and Native Americans in droves if that's the case.

But that's not the case. These are mascots for crying out loud. We cheer FOR them, and they were created to be cheered for...be they animal, vegetable or mineral, black or white or red.

And spare the surveys. Remember, 4 out of 5 doctors...and your mileage may vary.

Perhaps I am old school, but I am inclined to defer to the people who are being referenced. If they find it offensive (again, to the tune of over 80%) I am inclined to believe them that it is offensive. "Meat eating white men" can decide about Patriots/Vikings/Cowboys, but not on behalf of others.

YMMV, and this has gone way past the discussion of whether FSU was honoring native peoples or not.

[PackMan97]

The idea that devils are blue is offensive to me, they should only be red. Someone needs to change their mascot.

Of course while we are at it...the idea that a pack of wolves is going to rip into the flesh of their opponent and devour them is a wee bit upsetting as well. Maybe just do away with this mascot thing entirely?

End thread. :rolleyes:

[AGDukesky]

Perhaps I am old school, but I am inclined to defer to the people who are being referenced. If they find it offensive (again, to the tune of over 80%) I am inclined to believe them that it is offensive. "Meat eating white men" can decide about Patriots/Vikings/Cowboys, but not on behalf of others.

YMMV, and this has gone way past the discussion of whether FSU was honoring native peoples or not.

The issue with the Redskins is that the term is offensive. Seminoles is an actual name of a tribe. I also believe some native Americans are offended by the way the mascots are characterized- as stereotypical savages. I’m sure most fans don’t spend much time contemplating the big picture of their team’s mascot. But I’m skeptical how much fans actually care about honoring the people represented...

[pfrduke]

In the interests of keeping this thread open, let’s drop the mascot topic.

[sagegrouse]

Yale beats Miami in Miami, 77-73. Oh, my!

Wake travels to Richmond and loses, 84-74. I guess that was the expected result.

While the other ACC teams win, Georgia Tech loses at home to undefeated St. John's.

[royalblue]

For once, I agree with Roy (https://abc11.com/sports/roy-williams-irate-after-ugly-loss-to-michigan-says-my-coaching-sucks/4786144/)

You likely agreed with him as he was finishing up as the Kansas coach 😁

I am confused with Roy because back when he did not give a S#!¥ about Carolina he thought
People should be more sensitive. But now that he’s mad it’s ok to have absolutely nothing good to say about his team.

Roy shouldn’t you be more sensitive to your team if you now actually give a s#!¥ about them.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Yale beats Miami in Miami, 77-73. Oh, my!

Wake travels to Richmond and loses, 84-74. I guess that was the expected result.

While the other ACC teams win, Georgia Tech loses at home to undefeated St. John's.

THE U: Embarrassing the Conference Pre Season - An annual tradition.

[devilsadvocate85]

It amazes me that the Redskins or Seminoles get flack for their mascot, but the Tarheels never for theirs.

https://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2016/11/tar-heel-meaning-evolved-from-derogatory-to-proud

Forget the mascot. The football stadium is named for a man who led the massacre of blacks in Wilmington.

https://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2018/09/kenan-stadium-wilmington-massacre-0927[/QUOTE]

[budwom]

The Braves retired Chief Knockahoma many moons ago.

One of the most memorable days I've ever spent in a ballpark was the day some 40+ years ago at Fulton County Stadium, upper deck, left field, little kids pouring Coca Cola (how apt!) onto The Chief down below.
As they eventually leaned over the railing to get a better view of The Chief (where did he go?), little did they know that he was advancing on them in the upper deck, copious feathers drenched in Coke, and he saw absolutely no humor in the
situation. Feathers and all, he loomed about eight feet over the kids, and for a moment I feared he was going to toss one over the railing. Drama in real life. Scared the bejeezus out of those lads.