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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 78, Auburn 72 Post-Game Thread



JBDuke
11-20-2018, 10:07 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

WHOneedsSOX
11-20-2018, 10:08 PM
Solid game by Duke. Last 4 or so minutes were sloppy, 5 turnovers I think, so that needs to be cleaned up. Duke will only get better.

Now we listen to the haters cry about the +25 free throw attempts by Duke.

wavedukefan70s
11-20-2018, 10:08 PM
Not our best game.team will learn a lot and build on the lesson. Bolden Bolden Bolden.

duketaylor
11-20-2018, 10:09 PM
Good game, good win. Next!!! Excellent opponent!!

House G
11-20-2018, 10:09 PM
If Al McGuire were alive and doing the game, we might have heard the phrase aircraft carrier.

ChrisP
11-20-2018, 10:10 PM
Easily Bolden's best game in a Duke uni. And RJ's worst. LOTS of freshmen mistakes tonight - quick/ill-advised shots, lazy passes, not boxing out. Glad we got the win, but it felt like we could have won by 20 fairly easily with just a little more focus.

Troublemaker
11-20-2018, 10:11 PM
Marques freaking Bolden! His best game at Duke by far (finally eclipsing when he spurred the comeback against Miami his freshman year).

Relatedly, not sure the final advanced stats will reflect this because of all the prayer 3s that Auburn canned towards the end, but the game was really won by our defense. Our offense struggled against Auburn, who surprisingly backed off their pressure and went to a gapping defense, and we couldn't make shots to loosen it. (Props to the person [gocanes?] who called Bruce Pearl's surprise ability in the pregame).

jwillfan
11-20-2018, 10:12 PM
Survive and advance? Too soon?

peterjswift
11-20-2018, 10:14 PM
A thought I had last season about Bolden: he always seemed very fundamentally sound, but a half-step too slow. That half-step turned countless blocks to fouls, allowed players to blow by, or just miss shots. Or he’d be in the right place, but unable to grab the rebound or receive passes cleanly.

This year (not just this game), he has gotten that half step. It is a tiny change to his game or conditioning, but it has made a huge difference. He’s blocking shots, receiving passes, turning back ball handlers.

I’m not saying this is Zoubek-esque, because this seems more like incremental adjustments instead of a switch going off, but I feel like Bolden has made the adjustments to his game to suddenly be very effective. It was always there, just a half-second off. Really love seeing his success!

gocanes0506
11-20-2018, 10:16 PM
Every coach that is on Duke’s schedule until the end of the season will use Auburn’s play to blue print their scheme. Pack the lane, make Duke make threes and free throws, and prevent fast breaks.

K must not have trusted AOC, this was a game to let him get 15+. Then again Duke played a short bench.

Great that Duke plays pulls out a win against a big team in a close game. Good growing moment for the young guys.

See more pressing tomorrow or do we save legs? I think the lack of pressing hurt the offense too.

Ballboy1998
11-20-2018, 10:17 PM
We had some sloppy turnovers late, but Auburn raining down contested step-back threes for the last minutes was still the only thing keeping it close. Can't get too mad about giving those threes up.

Zion's early hustle-related foul seemed to take his aggressiveness away after the foul trouble last night. This was his quietest game, but he still did a lot of great things. RJ continued to settle for some bad shots and I think he loses focus too much on defense and on the glass. While it wasn't a good shot to take, loved Cam's killer instinct to just drain that deep three immediately after Auburn cut it to five points. Despite a couple turnovers late, I thought Tre had a phenomenal game. Huge game from Bolden. Wish we could make our free throws.

Dub
11-20-2018, 10:19 PM
Great game and great test against a veteran top 10 team. Traditionally teams with little guards kill us and Bolden was a man in there. I think people forget that we have 4 freshman starting and they are human. There will be several moments where we’ll scratch our heads at the decisions they’ll make but they’re resilient and they won the game. Auburn is a tough team and we weren’t going to blow everybody out by 20+. We needed a tough game and I’m glad the good guys won.

FTs were bad, ball handling was a bit sloppy toward the end, and the freshmen took some bad shots but they’ll learn from it and grow from it much more than the 30 point blowouts we’ve become accustomed to. Enjoy this team folks. They’re special!

Billy Dat
11-20-2018, 10:19 PM
Bolden Bolden Bolden.

Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden

weezie
11-20-2018, 10:21 PM
We had some sloppy turnovers late, but Auburn raining down contested step-back threes for the last minutes was still the only thing keeping it close. Can't get too mad about giving those threes up...

Those were some quick triggers for aubie. But that's their strength. Doubt too many other coaches can call on that automatic back court.

Good to see a "human" game for Duke. They met the challenge.

dukelion
11-20-2018, 10:22 PM
Marques Bolden.......this is why I love college basketball.

Three years of promise and struggle including perhaps his lowest moment just a few months back during the Canada tour where he was absolutely atrocious.

And then all of the sudden....click.....he figures it out.

Tremendous performance and just special to watch a young man finally reach his potential after years of hard work.

Billy Dat
11-20-2018, 10:22 PM
While it wasn't a good shot to take, loved Cam's killer instinct to just drain that deep three immediately after Auburn cut it to five points..

That was a HUGE shot, and RJ hit a similar one a few minutes earlier. Thess kids are confident.

arnie
11-20-2018, 10:23 PM
Though our half court O was disappointing, too many rushed shots and generally sloppy play. Zion can’t dribble around or through all double teams.

Auburn has a great O, and our MTM was pretty good all game. Forcing their guards to drive toward Bolden and even White worked ok.

DavidBenAkiva
11-20-2018, 10:25 PM
All 5 starters scored in double figures. Bolden, R.J., and Zion had 9 rebounds each. Jack White was out there doing Jack White things. Tre Jones played exceptional defense against a potential 1st Team All-SEC player. Cam Reddish was out there knocking down shots and poking the ball away. The team was sloppy at times, but hot damn Duke knocked off another Top 10 team tonight!

InSpades
11-20-2018, 10:25 PM
Bolden was fabulous. Super happy for him. Best game in a Duke uniform by far. He was truly the difference in this game if you ask me. Duke probably loses if he doesn't show up like he did.

Defense had some lapses but as a whole played pretty well I thought. Though Auburn's offense seemed based around hucking 3s at every opportunity. So I'm not sure how that reflects on Duke's defense. I thought Tre did a good job staying in front of Harper for the most part and forcing him to take difficult shots.

The offense was terrible. 25 3s? Duke shot 17 of 29 from 2 (almost 59%). We forced them to foul us over and over again by driving the lane. Why are we settling for difficult shots? We have 3 amazing offensive talents... we should be able to leverage them to get us a good shot every time down the court. We did not do that tonight.

Auburn did not impress me. I know they are ranked 8 and any win over a top 10 team is a really good win but... this game did not look good to me. We need to play much better than that and we are capable of playing much better than that.

Saratoga2
11-20-2018, 10:26 PM
Auburn is a very good team and they played hard for 40 minutes. We did as well and our superior talent won out but we did show some freshman mistakes, especially toward the end when we could have iced it. Good teaching moments for the coaches. Bolden, as others have said, had his best game and we needed it from him. Our FT shooting was 22 of 32. Nice we got that many but we need to hit a higher percentage. Reddish is our best at the line.

I really liked Tre's defense. They had quick guards, but he really did not get blown by. His defensive on ball pressure slowed down their offense.

Look forward to tomorrow.

jipops
11-20-2018, 10:26 PM
Looks like we settled into the 7 man rotation already in November.

I thought our defense looked really good overall. And much of that was because of Bolden. The offense struggled especially in the 2nd but Auburn is a very good defensive team, far superior to what we saw vs. UK.

I thought for sure that K would stay small at the 8 minute mark but getting Bolden back out there was just huge. With us being unable to take care of the ball during that time his help D just saved us.

One thing this team is going to have to learn is how to use up clock. We hurried it up after getting stops and it cost us, especially against Auburn’s high turnover D. Tyus will need to reign that in.

Duke79UNLV77
11-20-2018, 10:27 PM
I think K will be very happy with the win, thrilled with Bolden, but not happy about late sloppiness and some lapses when we would stretch out the lead, which may be a nice combo for this team.

BandAlum83
11-20-2018, 10:28 PM
Great game and great test against a veteran top 10 team. Traditionally teams with little guards kill us and Bolden was a man in there. I think people forget that we have 4 freshman starting and they are human. There will be several moments where we’ll scratch our heads at the decisions they’ll make but they’re resilient and they won the game. Auburn is a tough team and we weren’t going to blow everybody out by 20+. We needed a tough game and I’m glad the good guys won.

FTs were bad, ball handling was a bit sloppy toward the end, and the freshmen took some bad shots but they’ll learn from it and grow from it much more than the 30 point blowouts we’ve become accustomed to. Enjoy this team folks. They’re special!

If we make only one more FT, we are over 70% for the game. 70% isn't awful.

SCMatt33
11-20-2018, 10:28 PM
The thing that impressed me most today was Duke's ability to keep Auburn at arms length the entire way and never let a crazy bucket or bad turnover turn into a big run. Despite feeling tense, Auburn never actually possessed the ball down less than three possessions after the opening minutes of the game. As long as I didn't misread the play by play and forgot a possession, every time they cut it to 5 or 6, Duke immediately scored on the ensuing possession.

wgl1228
11-20-2018, 10:28 PM
I don’t think we’ve played great in Maui but have beat two good teams. I still don’t get why Alex does not play more with his great shooting %.

Faustus
11-20-2018, 10:30 PM
Another Al McGuire line: "The best thing about freshmen is that they will become sophomores." Ummm... not anymore, Al, not these frosh, anyway. Different world we live in. So enjoy the moment.

moonpie23
11-20-2018, 10:31 PM
good thing Harper didn't have 2 more minutes.....he was dialed in....

Bolden........nuff said...


oh, and missed free throws.....

jimsumner
11-20-2018, 10:34 PM
I still don’t get why Alex does not play more with his great shooting %.

Because the other team gets the ball.

MartyClark
11-20-2018, 10:35 PM
Good tough win. Two points:

1. I'd like to see Duke run a few more offensive plays. The 5 out offense, so far, seems to rely on outside shooting. We are good at that but I'd like to see some screens and set plays to get Zion and others the ball down low, in scoring position

2. Bolden was great, this was his coming out party. Hopefully he builds on this for a big junior season.

Go Duke!

jipops
11-20-2018, 10:37 PM
Auburn did not impress me. I know they are ranked 8 and any win over a top 10 team is a really good win but... this game did not look good to me. We need to play much better than that and we are capable of playing much better than that.

2016-17 and 2017-18 Duke teams would have lost this game. No way in November you would have seen the level of D needed to beat a team like this Auburn crew.

KandG
11-20-2018, 10:41 PM
Weird as it sounds, I was OK when Auburn made a three to cut it to five in the second half, after we seemed to blow the game open up 16 three minutes into the second half. Good to see our team face some game pressure and keep Auburn at arm’s length through the end.

So, so happy for Bolden. Still remember when we won the ACC tournament two years ago and Bolden asked to sit with two teammates as the nets were being cut down, looking happy but clearly an afterthought with his injury. Seeing him this active on both ends, and just how good he’s become defensively, was a real thrill. As others have noted, seemed like K would go small when things got tough, but Bolden’s ability to more than hold his own on defense gave K a weapon that largely trumped whatever Pearl could throw at us.

Six turnovers in the last five minutes after we seemed to seal the game up 73-61 was not great. Nor was the free throw shooting. With that said, getting to the line as often as we did and getting their players in foul trouble was a big plus. Would like to see our offense evolve beyond isolations when things get tight, even though we have some amazingly talented players who can make big plays in isolation.

proelitedota
11-20-2018, 10:44 PM
The TOs late are due to fatigue and probably inconsistent reffing.

Coaches are going to make everyone outside of Cam shoot FTs so we need to start making them.

Dukehky
11-20-2018, 11:03 PM
Looks like we settled into the 7 man rotation already in November.

I thought our defense looked really good overall. And much of that was because of Bolden. The offense struggled especially in the 2nd but Auburn is a very good defensive team, far superior to what we saw vs. UK.

I thought for sure that K would stay small at the 8 minute mark but getting Bolden back out there was just huge. With us being unable to take care of the ball during that time his help D just saved us.

One thing this team is going to have to learn is how to use up clock. We hurried it up after getting stops and it cost us, especially against Auburn’s high turnover D. Tyus will need to reign that in.

Let's not get crazy. 8 men played meaningful minutes tonight and K tightened it up in the second half against a top ten team who refused to quit. Goldwire played in the first half and played okay. No reason to give Javin tons of minutes with Bolden crushing it like he was. K rides hot hands not infrequently.

AOC is the only person who can argue for minutes, but his defense just isn't up to snuff at this point. At other points in the year, he'll still get some run. I don't think this is a situation where K isn't giving people an opportunity. AOC came in and didn't play particularly well on defense, but he got his chance.

elvis14
11-20-2018, 11:05 PM
Really happy to win this game. It was a bit sloppy but overall, we faced a top 10 team, struggled a bit but kept it together and moved on to the finals.

Pro: Bolden, Bolden and Bolden
Con: RJ's decision making tonight wasn't good

OldPhiKap
11-20-2018, 11:06 PM
Let's not get crazy. 8 men played meaningful minutes tonight and K tightened it up in the second half against a top ten team who refused to quit. Goldwire played in the first half and played okay. No reason to give Javin tons of minutes with Bolden crushing it like he was. K rides hot hands not infrequently.

AOC is the only person who can argue for minutes, but his defense just isn't up to snuff at this point. At other points in the year, he'll still get some run. I don't think this is a situation where K isn't giving people an opportunity. AOC came in and didn't play particularly well on defense, but he got his chance.

Agree with hky as usual. Bolden was a beast, why rotate him out more than necessary? I did not think this was a plan by K, so much as recognizing in-game that when a big dog barks you keep feeding it.

UrinalCake
11-20-2018, 11:07 PM
Not a very clean game for us but we still beat a top-10 team fairly comfortably. Auburn’s defense was the toughest we’ve faced this season and there will be plenty of teaching moments when the team has a chance to go through the tape. Defensively we forced them into launching bad threes, really impressive job on that end. Zion allowed that easy dunk early on and was taken out but despite struggling for much of the game he still remained engaged and came up with some big plays. Tough game but we got the W. Awesome to see Bolden have a breakout game, hope this boosts his confidence and helps him remain aggressive moving forward.

Dukehky
11-20-2018, 11:20 PM
I'm going to say one more thing here that I think is more indicative of the type of season Bolden is going to have than even his incredible stats tonight would indicate...

I just watched Bolden's post game interview with ESPN. His voice was noticeably and totally hoarse. If you've watched the Earn Everything series, or listened to K talk for the past 40 years, you know the importance of communication in Duke's man to man scheme. Bolden clearly was talking tonight because his voice was worn out. That is incredible. Even if you're playing well, there's no guarantee that you're communicating, and it's kind of unlikely you would communicate to the point of losing your voice without it being a habit. If this is a habit, and Bolden is really becoming the anchor of the defense, watch out.

Side note: if Reddish stays out of foul trouble, we blow them out in the first half, he changes the dynamic of our offense with his shooting capability. If we can keep our freshmen from picking up 2 quick fouls, it's going to take a bad performance by us and a really good performance by the opponent for us to lose...

OldPhiKap
11-20-2018, 11:23 PM
I'm going to say one more thing here that I think is more indicative of the type of season Bolden is going to have than even his incredible stats tonight would indicate...

I just watched Bolden's post game interview with ESPN. His voice was noticeably and totally hoarse. If you've watched the Earn Everything series, or listened to K talk for the past 40 years, you know the importance of communication in Duke's man to man scheme. Bolden clearly was talking tonight because his voice was worn out. That is incredible. Even if you're playing well, there's no guarantee that you're communicating, and it's kind of unlikely you would communicate to the point of losing your voice without it being a habit. If this is a habit, and Bolden is really becoming the anchor of the defense, watch out.



Great point, and especially important given his position. I recall K saying how important Battier was to the defense, being mainly on the back line.

The center has the best defensive view in many circumstances. A defense with a vocal center is a blessing.

Dukehky
11-20-2018, 11:26 PM
Great point, and especially important given his position. I recall K saying how important Battier was to the defense, being mainly on the back line.

The center has the best defensive view in many circumstances. A defense with a vocal center is a blessing.

I kind of wonder if he's making a case to be added as a captain? I feel like adding a player as a captain midseason isn't unheard of. Not that Javin and Jack haven't been great (mostly Jack because he's been on the court way more and has been much, much better), but it would be cool to have a captain as a starter if he earned it.

Edouble
11-20-2018, 11:31 PM
I'm going to say one more thing here that I think is more indicative of the type of season Bolden is going to have than even his incredible stats tonight would indicate...

I just watched Bolden's post game interview with ESPN. His voice was noticeably and totally hoarse. If you've watched the Earn Everything series, or listened to K talk for the past 40 years, you know the importance of communication in Duke's man to man scheme. Bolden clearly was talking tonight because his voice was worn out. That is incredible. Even if you're playing well, there's no guarantee that you're communicating, and it's kind of unlikely you would communicate to the point of losing your voice without it being a habit. If this is a habit, and Bolden is really becoming the anchor of the defense, watch out.

Side note: if Reddish stays out of foul trouble, we blow them out in the first half, he changes the dynamic of our offense with his shooting capability. If we can keep our freshmen from picking up 2 quick fouls, it's going to take a bad performance by us and a really good performance by the opponent for us to lose...


Great point, and especially important given his position. I recall K saying how important Battier was to the defense, being mainly on the back line.

The center has the best defensive view in many circumstances. A defense with a vocal center is a blessing.

But Battier's voice was never hoarse in post game interviews.

I heard Bolden's interview and I disagree. I thought his voice was just low, not hoarse. Totally hoarse? I guess we really heard it different, but it just sounded like your typical huge 7' dude who has a really low voice.

Duke76
11-20-2018, 11:38 PM
Though our half court O was disappointing, too many rushed shots and generally sloppy play. Zion can’t dribble around or through all double teams.

Auburn has a great O, and our MTM was pretty good all game. Forcing their guards to drive toward Bolden and even White worked ok.

that's what i didn't like either...Zion on the perimeter....he needs to be in the block with his back to the basket....flashing to foul line ...... following the ball around...making them front him or double team him....think it would open it up for the others or he would get the ball more in a scoring position....sometimes I think K gets too enamored with just letting them play one on one instead of calling certain plays based on the defense

UrinalCake
11-20-2018, 11:46 PM
Bolden has to be one of the most misunderstood players we’ve ever had. Came in as a top-15 player who everyone assumed was going to Kentucky. Had elite measurables and was a presumed OAD but struggled as a freshman as he fought through injuries. EVERYONE assumed he was going to transfer and was actually shocked when he didn’t. Last year he was stuck behind two elite NBA players in Bagley and Carter, yet played pretty well in limited minutes late in the season. Everybody again assumed he would transfer, yet he stayed committed to the program. He’s always been a super quiet and shy kid in a program that requires communication and leadership. He was invisible on the Canada trip, scoring zero points while his teammates shined, leading many to believe he would be pushed out of the rotation in favor of a death lineup. His style of play makes him a dinosaur, a true low post 5 with no scoring ability outside the paint, yet he showed tonight that he can still have tremendous value as a rim protector and gathering garbage buckets on offense.

I think the key to his NBA future is not turning into a 20 PPG scorer, which isn’t going to happen and wouldn’t be valued even if it did. His role at the next level (which is also his greatest value to us right now) is playing the role he did tonight.

OldPhiKap
11-20-2018, 11:49 PM
I kind of wonder if he's making a case to be added as a captain? I feel like adding a player as a captain midseason isn't unheard of. Not that Javin and Jack haven't been great (mostly Jack because he's been on the court way more and has been much, much better), but it would be cool to have a captain as a starter if he earned it.

K’s post-game presser with Tre and Bolden was interesting — K injected himself several times into the end of questions to the players to pump up Bolden.

Bolden May have found his inner chi, he may have just hit a one-game flash. Time will tell. But adding a captain mid-season is not unheard of for K and I would say it’s there if Bolden earns it through consistent effort.

With the defensive pressure Tre can put on top, the rash of athletic 6’7”-res or so, and the incredible offensive output of our top three freshmen, a center who can protect the rim is a HUGE final piece. Bolden was all of that tonight and more.

kako
11-21-2018, 12:14 AM
5 thoughts...

1. Great game for Bolden. No need to repeat what's already been said, except when was the last time that a Duke player had more blocks? Shelden Williams?

2. Way too cavalier with the ball in the 2nd half. Duke did not value the ball well. For all the talk about Duke having 4 ball handlers, I want Jones with the ball in the half court set when it counts.

3. Really impressed with Auburn's Harper. That kid has some stones.

4. Bilas was too full of himself to mention that both Jones and Goldwire were on the floor at the same time. I want to go back and watch what K was trying to do. Did anybody else notice that? I think Goldwire getting minutes is important to Duke (this year and next).

5. That stats don't show it being terrible, but it seemed like Duke missed key FTs. Other than Reddish, I'm not sure who is trustworthy from the line. I was so used to seeing Tyus Jones be money from the line, so it's a bit jarring to see Tre Jones miss. It's only been 5 games, so hopefully Duke gets better overall.

9F

Furniture
11-21-2018, 12:18 AM
I kind of wonder if he's making a case to be added as a captain? I feel like adding a player as a captain midseason isn't unheard of. Not that Javin and Jack haven't been great (mostly Jack because he's been on the court way more and has been much, much better), but it would be cool to have a captain as a starter if he earned it.

It has been done.......

Curry Joins Kelly & Plumlee as Team Captain
Courtesy: Duke Sports Information
Release: 10/28/2011
http://image.cdnllnwnl.xosnetwork.com/pics32/400/AK/AKOBUQUFNAJCIIY.20111028184400.jpgPhoto Courtesy: Duke Photography

DURHAM, N.C. - Duke head men's basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&ATCLID=152844&DB_OEM_ID=4200)announced that Seth Curry (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&ATCLID=204812443&DB_OEM_ID=4200) has been named a team captain. Curry, a junior from Charlotte, N.C., joins senior Miles Plumlee (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&ATCLID=1580059&DB_OEM_ID=4200) and junior Ryan Kelly (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&ATCLID=204812453&DB_OEM_ID=4200) as team captains for the 2011-12 season.

Kedsy
11-21-2018, 12:53 AM
Let's not get crazy. 8 men played meaningful minutes tonight and K tightened it up in the second half against a top ten team who refused to quit.

The 8th man played 3 minutes. I think it's more accurate to say that in our first relatively tight game (even though we never trailed) we played a 7-man rotation and the 7th man played just 10 minutes, so it was perilously close to a 6-man rotation.


ADVANCED STATS

Possessions: 70.72 (slowest game of the year)

OFFENSE

oRtg: 1.10 (worst offensive game of the year against, not coincidentally, the best defense we've played; having said that, our adjusted oRtg was 120.6, which is pretty strong).
eFG%: 50.9% (good, not great)
3pt%: 28.0% (including the October exhibitions, we've been 40% or better in 5 games and under 30% twice)
2pt%: 58.6% (in four of our five regular season games, we've shot 2-pointers between 58.5% and 59.6% (the "outlier": 55.6% against Army), meaning we've been pretty consistent so far)
%threes: 46.3% (way too high, especially when we're not hitting)
FT rate: 63.0% (our best regular season free throw rate performances of the year by far have come in our last two games)
OR%: 37.8% (third straight strong offensive rebounding performance)
TO%: 18.4% (not good, for the second straight game after opening the season really well in this area)
a/to: 0.92:1 (ditto)
%assisted: 50.0% (acceptable)
fast break pts: 31 fb pts for 39.7% (another super-strong performance; this team can really get out on the break)

DEFENSE

dRtg: 1.02 (doesn't look great, but adjusted it's 90.4, which is a top 10 defensive performance)
eFG%: 43.5% (pretty strong)
3pt%: 34.4% (they missed some terrible threes in the first half and made some well-contested threes in the second)
2pt%: 35.6% (very strong; other than against Kentucky, our 2-point defense has been outstanding so far)
%threes: 41.6% (a lot, but this is what Auburn does)
FT rate: 11.6% (remember last game when I said we were Jekyll-and-Hyde when it comes to defensive free throw rate? This game we were Dr. Jekyll)
DR%: 64.0% (not so great)
TO%: 12.7% (poor)
a/to: 1.56:1 (pretty decent)
%assisted: 50.0% (acceptable)
fast break pts: 18 fb pts for 25.0% (worst fast break defensive performance of the season)
block%: 14.3%; 22.2% of 2-point shots (pretty fabulous, thanks mostly to Marques; also Zion blocked a three-point shot)


Overall, good enough to win. Can't really complain about never trailing, even for a second, in a game against a top 10 team.

WHOneedsSOX
11-21-2018, 02:20 AM
K’s post-game presser with Tre and Bolden was interesting — K injected himself several times into the end of questions to the players to pump up Bolden.

Bolden May have found his inner chi, he may have just hit a one-game flash. Time will tell. But adding a captain mid-season is not unheard of for K and I would say it’s there if Bolden earns it through consistent effort.

With the defensive pressure Tre can put on top, the rash of athletic 6’7”-res or so, and the incredible offensive output of our top three freshmen, a center who can protect the rim is a HUGE final piece. Bolden was all of that tonight and more.

The biggest thing with Bolden is keeping his hands up to block shots. The past couple seasons he would always, always bring his hands down to meet the ball down low for a block which will get called by the ref a majority of the time. Tonight he was keeping his hands straight up and blocking the ball after it was released by the Auburn players. He has great size and great reach. He'll be able to a lot of balls before they reach their apex up in the air. He has to remember that. An altered shot is very good also. He doesn't have to block every single shot.

DukieInBrasil
11-21-2018, 03:08 AM
Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden

is that the scene from Being Marques Bolden, where the Big `Ques goes thru the tiny door into Marques Bolden world? That was some funny stuff...



Looks like we settled into the 7 man rotation already in November.

I thought our defense looked really good overall. And much of that was because of Bolden. The offense struggled especially in the 2nd but Auburn is a very good defensive team, far superior to what we saw vs. UK.

I thought for sure that K would stay small at the 8 minute mark but getting Bolden back out there was just huge. With us being unable to take care of the ball during that time his help D just saved us.

One thing this team is going to have to learn is how to use up clock. We hurried it up after getting stops and it cost us, especially against Auburn’s high turnover D. Tre will need to reign that in.
fixed it

DUKIE V(A)
11-21-2018, 04:02 AM
Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden Bolden

Why only 12 Boldens? Perhaps you are being a bit stingy with your praise. 😜

Mr. Bolden looks like he has gotten himself into good physical condition. He is active and moving exceptionally well.

Our role players are stepping up this year.

Saratoga2
11-21-2018, 06:06 AM
5 thoughts...

1. Great game for Bolden. No need to repeat what's already been said, except when was the last time that a Duke player had more blocks? Shelden Williams?

2. Way too cavalier with the ball in the 2nd half. Duke did not value the ball well. For all the talk about Duke having 4 ball handlers, I want Jones with the ball in the half court set when it counts.

3. Really impressed with Auburn's Harper. That kid has some stones.

4. Bilas was too full of himself to mention that both Jones and Goldwire were on the floor at the same time. I want to go back and watch what K was trying to do. Did anybody else notice that? I think Goldwire getting minutes is important to Duke (this year and next).

5. That stats don't show it being terrible, but it seemed like Duke missed key FTs. Other than Reddish, I'm not sure who is trustworthy from the line. I was so used to seeing Tyus Jones be money from the line, so it's a bit jarring to see Tre Jones miss. It's only been 5 games, so hopefully Duke gets better overall.

9F

Nice summary. We do have 3 long athletic guys who can handle the ball and finish. Oh those, Cam has the best outside shot while all aare good. We had a terrific Bolden last night and Tre is a gifted PG with some scoring ability. Behind them, we have a really nice player in Jack white, with his defense and rebounding and outside shot he is a very effective substitute. Delaurier can come in and give good minutes with his hustle, size and athleticism. Goldwire is an effective ball handler and defensive player and O'Connell has good size, athleticism and shooting ability but is not thought of yet aa an effective defensive player. The point is we are formidable and fairly deep. Thats good, because the gym temperature is high and the pace fairly fast, so guys need subs during the game.

So what can cause probles for our team?

1. Early foul trouble is somewhat expected with a freshman team and certainly reduces our personnel advantage. Picking up fouls 30 feet from the basket through overaggressiveness, Offensive fouls driving into a packed in defense, reaching in. Last night Cam went out very early and the night before it was Zion. This is a facet of the game the guys have to get under better control.

2. Dribbling into double teams also resulted in turnovers. Keeping the ball moving with passes and finding the best opportunities is what we need to stress. Situational ball should tell them with a lead, the pressure is on the other team and don't risk turnovers by trying to do too much.

3. Lazy passes against a good and quick team result in turnovers. We had some of that throughout the game. Early on we didn't seem to realize Auburn's quickness and it occurred a few times during the game. We need to value the ball on every possession.

4. Learning to finish games strongly by icing and taking fouls is the way to go. I 'm sure we are practicing FT's so we take what we get in that regard. Cam seems to be our best with Jack very good as well. I would want to make them foul Cam late in the game.

Despite our youth, and the Auburn ability we still were the winner and it could have been significantly more. The coaching staff has teaching points. Gonzaga will be a test. Hope we can keep our best players out of foul trouble tonight.

84Duke
11-21-2018, 07:09 AM
The play where an Auburn guard was mismatched on Bolden, figured he could drive past him, and had Bolden block his shot was my favorite play of the game.

Troublemaker
11-21-2018, 07:59 AM
4. Bilas was too full of himself to mention that both Jones and Goldwire were on the floor at the same time. I want to go back and watch what K was trying to do. Did anybody else notice that? I think Goldwire getting minutes is important to Duke (this year and next).

That was about Alex and Coach's distrust of him at that time. Duke was in foul trouble and needed perimeter subs, and Coach K chose to go with JGold over Alex because earlier in the game, Alex lost his man who popped out to the 3-pt line using a down screen for a wide open three. I mean, it wasn't like Alex was closely trailing from behind -- the Pacific Ocean was in between Alex and a great Auburn shooter, who knocked it down. I had a feeling Alex wasn't going to see another minute in the game after that, and I was right.

For rotation hawks, who pore over our rotations with a fine-toothed comb, I would say Alex and JGold's minutes should be combined into a single "man" and therefore with played an 8-man rotation, which is reasonable in a competitive game against a top-10 team.


Can't really complain about never trailing, even for a second, in a game against a top 10 team.

Yep, and I never felt like Auburn was going to take the lead, either. (Although other viewers of the game might have experienced it differently). I felt comfortable we were going to win throughout.

When a top-10 team plays a lane-clogging defense (which we're going to see a lot, apparently), and we can't hit shots to loosen them up, it's going to be hard to create the big margins that we've sometimes seen with this team. We actually went away from our motion offense for much of the second half because the drives and kicks weren't producing points. We started running our old school floppy set, trying to get Cam and open three on the side. And we even made a post entry to Marques for a dunk; the play was beautiful with RJ making a hockey assist skip pass to Tre who had the proper angle for the entry pass.

OldPhiKap
11-21-2018, 08:00 AM
I was also impressed with how many blocks we kept in play, leading to a rebound and a run-out the other way. Bang bang.

lotusland
11-21-2018, 08:20 AM
Marques Bolden...this is why I love college basketball.

Three years of promise and struggle including perhaps his lowest moment just a few months back during the Canada tour where he was absolutely atrocious.

And then all of the sudden...click...he figures it out.

Tremendous performance and just special to watch a young man finally reach his potential after years of hard work.

Agree. The development of Jack White and now Bolden along with the ball sharing frosh are making this team really fun. Funny I thought during the SDSU game that it didn’t seem like we lost that much with Vrank and JRob playing instead of Javin or Bolden. Bolden was a big-time difference maker against AU. Hopefully he’ll continue to be the man in the middle all year.

Barrett’s the guy who looks to score most aggressively but he’s also a good passer. Tre Jones has been solid all year and really good the last 2 games. Fun team lots of room to still improve.

HereBeforeCoachK
11-21-2018, 08:42 AM
Agree. The development of Jack White and now Bolden along with the ball sharing frosh are making this team really fun. Funny I thought during the SDSU game that it didn’t seem like we lost that much with Vrank and JRob playing instead of Javin or Bolden. Bolden was a big-time difference maker against AU. Hopefully he’ll continue to be the man in the middle all year.

Barrett’s the guy who looks to score most aggressively but he’s also a good passer. Tre Jones has been solid all year and really good the last 2 games. Fun team lots of room to still improve.

Agree with all of that. Regarding Bolden, I really hope he continues this for a number of reasons....not the least of which I think Javin is having a brain dead year, let's way too many balls that he gets his hands on get ripped away too. He looks out of sync. Right now doing very little with his speed, height and athleticism....all of which is undeniable.

Duke76
11-21-2018, 08:45 AM
That was about Alex and Coach's distrust of him at that time. Duke was in foul trouble and needed perimeter subs, and Coach K chose to go with JGold over Alex because earlier in the game, Alex lost his man who popped out to the 3-pt line using a down screen for a wide open three. I mean, it wasn't like Alex was closely trailing from behind -- the Pacific Ocean was in between Alex and a great Auburn shooter, who knocked it down. I had a feeling Alex wasn't going to see another minute in the game after that, and I was right.

For rotation hawks, who pore over our rotations with a fine-toothed comb, I would say Alex and JGold's minutes should be combined into a single "man" and therefore with played an 8-man rotation, which is reasonable in a competitive game against a top-10 team.



Yep, and I never felt like Auburn was going to take the lead, either. (Although other viewers of the game might have experienced it differently). I felt comfortable we were going to win throughout.

When a top-10 team plays a lane-clogging defense (which we're going to see a lot, apparently), and we can't hit shots to loosen them up, it's going to be hard to create the big margins that we've sometimes seen with this team. We actually went away from our motion offense for much of the second half because the drives and kicks weren't producing points. We started running our old school floppy set, trying to get Cam and open three on the side. And we even made a post entry to Marques for a dunk; the play was beautiful with RJ making a hockey assist skip pass to Tre who had the proper angle for the entry pass.

that last play you mentioned was my favorite play of the night...again the ball never touched the ground and the angles were perfect text book ball...that's what they need to watch over and over....dribbling/passing the ball around the perimeter especially with Zion out there is not effective...he and Bolden gotta flash the lane to the foul line to create angles to pass in and out to...go vertical on the court not horizontal around the horn...good things happen to when Tre can drive off of picks at the corners of the free throw line

lotusland
11-21-2018, 09:00 AM
that last play you mentioned was my favorite play of the night...again the ball never touched the ground and the angles were perfect text book ball...that's what they need to watch over and over...dribbling/passing the ball around the perimeter especially with Zion out there is not effective...he and Bolden gotta flash the lane to the foul line to create angles to pass in and out to...go vertical on the court not horizontal around the horn...good things happen to when Tre can drive off of picks at the corners of the free throw line

AU attacked the dribble very well. Zion is a good ball handler for his size but it just makes sense for defenders, especially help defenders, to go for the ball when he puts it on the floor. Also, to nit-pick a little, neither Bolden nor Javin should ever dribble in the paint.

Tripping William
11-21-2018, 09:03 AM
Also, to nit-pick a little, neither Bolden nor Javin should ever dribble in the paint.

Agree with this, and both seem to me to have a penchant for putting the ball on the floor in order to gather themselves.

budwom
11-21-2018, 09:26 AM
I feel compelled (among all the good things that happened last night, and there were many) to say that Javin reaching in for a foul with two seconds left on the shot clock, well away from the basket, was not fruitful.

HereBeforeCoachK
11-21-2018, 09:28 AM
I feel compelled (among all the good things that happened last night, and there were many) to say that Javin reaching in for a foul with two seconds left on the shot clock, well away from the basket, was not fruitful.

...and by "not fruitful," what you mean is totally brain dead, inexcusable for an upper class man, unacceptable for a captain, and one that caused a negative disturbance in the force of momentum.

budwom
11-21-2018, 09:48 AM
...and by "not fruitful," what you mean is totally brain dead, inexcusable for an upper class man, unacceptable for a captain, and one that caused a negative disturbance in the force of momentum.

and there I was trying to be polite! Yeah, he accumulates fouls at an absurd rate, so you'd think he'd start thinking about how to improve on that. Not yet, apparently.

Channing
11-21-2018, 09:53 AM
As noted, not surprising that the half-court offense still needs some work. I really liked (what I only saw once though I may have missed it) the 4 high / 1 low set where Zion attacked off the wing. Trey / Jack / Cam / RJ / AOC are going to have to keep defenses honest or we are going to see a ton of packed lanes. I'm not sure what the magic 3% percentage is (33%?), but if we can stay at or above it, we are a true pick your poison type of team. Fortunately RCZ can all make the pull-up free throw jumper.

I didn't see much feeding Zion in the post (low or mid). With his quickness to spin and get off the ground, and elite finishing ability, it would seem that would be a really good option. Certainly teams are going to try and push him off the low block (like they did with Bagley), but Zion strikes me as a guy who isn't going to move if he doesn't want to move.

uh_no
11-21-2018, 09:58 AM
ultimately the game wasn't "bad" from an absolute perspective (we even won by more than projected...by playing better offense and worse defense)...Auburn is a really really good team, and pushed us hard. That said, given how much we got ahead early, it's frustrating that the game got pulled back so tightly.

- Auburn Plays some really good defense. They did not make it easy for us to get good shots. What I saw was us resort to settling for those shots and playing more hero ball style. That's a classic "rookie" mistake. As soon as we had a couple of empty possessions (as is apt to happen against any good defense), and they scored a couple, we stopped doing our thing on the offensive end. It takes time to learn to be patient in such situations and to keep playing offense. Sometimes those good shots will come later in the shot clock, but it's important to keep cool and get them instead of taking some of the ill advised shots I saw. The team will learn that.

- I thought tre could have done a better job keeping the team under control. He had 6 and 1, yes, but on those stretchees when the offense was really struggling, I don't feel like he necessarily pushed the team to continue to, as I said above, play its game. This was something that I think came naturally to Tyus, and which Tre can still work on.

-RJ took 8 3's. He sure as heck should not have taken 8 3's. Some of these were just really bad looks. Like above, I think some of it was a bit of hero ball. Just because they scored 4 points in a row doesn't mean we need to jack a three.

So if there are any big takeaways:
-patience on offense
-transition defense
-BOLDEN

devildeac
11-21-2018, 10:07 AM
ultimately the game wasn't "bad" from an absolute perspective (we even won by more than projected...by playing better offense and worse defense)...Auburn is a really really good team, and pushed us hard. That said, given how much we got ahead early, it's frustrating that the game got pulled back so tightly.

- Auburn Plays some really good defense. They did not make it easy for us to get good shots. What I saw was us resort to settling for those shots and playing more hero ball style. That's a classic "rookie" mistake. As soon as we had a couple of empty possessions (as is apt to happen against any good defense), and they scored a couple, we stopped doing our thing on the offensive end. It takes time to learn to be patient in such situations and to keep playing offense. Sometimes those good shots will come later in the shot clock, but it's important to keep cool and get them instead of taking some of the ill advised shots I saw. The team will learn that.

- I thought tre could have done a better job keeping the team under control. He had 6 and 1, yes, but on those stretchees when the offense was really struggling, I don't feel like he necessarily pushed the team to continue to, as I said above, play its game. This was something that I think came naturally to Tyus, and which Tre can still work on.

-RJ took 8 3's. He sure as heck should not have taken 8 3's. Some of these were just really bad looks. Like above, I think some of it was a bit of hero ball. Just because they scored 4 points in a row doesn't mean we need to jack a three.

So if there are any big takeaways:
-patience on offense
-transition defense
-BOLDEN

Good stuff.

What did our offensive/defensive geek stats work out to vs Auburn?

uh_no
11-21-2018, 10:33 AM
Good stuff.

What did our offensive/defensive geek stats work out to vs Auburn?

110-101 unadjusted
119-89 adjusted

Which is almost bang on our actual ratings.

The "bad" split is everything following the under-4 timeout in the first half. There were 40 more possessions, in which auburn autscored us 50-44, or 125-110 tempo free. So despite not being happy with how our offense played, it was actually pretty consistent over the course of the game...with our output over the last 24 minutes being consistent with the output over the first 16. The defense, however, fell off a cliff. A lot of it was they started to make some shots.

jv001
11-21-2018, 10:49 AM
ultimately the game wasn't "bad" from an absolute perspective (we even won by more than projected...by playing better offense and worse defense)...Auburn is a really really good team, and pushed us hard. That said, given how much we got ahead early, it's frustrating that the game got pulled back so tightly.

- Auburn Plays some really good defense. They did not make it easy for us to get good shots. What I saw was us resort to settling for those shots and playing more hero ball style. That's a classic "rookie" mistake. As soon as we had a couple of empty possessions (as is apt to happen against any good defense), and they scored a couple, we stopped doing our thing on the offensive end. It takes time to learn to be patient in such situations and to keep playing offense. Sometimes those good shots will come later in the shot clock, but it's important to keep cool and get them instead of taking some of the ill advised shots I saw. The team will learn that.

- I thought tre could have done a better job keeping the team under control. He had 6 and 1, yes, but on those stretchees when the offense was really struggling, I don't feel like he necessarily pushed the team to continue to, as I said above, play its game. This was something that I think came naturally to Tyus, and which Tre can still work on.

-RJ took 8 3's. He sure as heck should not have taken 8 3's. Some of these were just really bad looks. Like above, I think some of it was a bit of hero ball. Just because they scored 4 points in a row doesn't mean we need to jack a three.

So if there are any big takeaways:
-patience on offense
-transition defense
-BOLDEN

Some great points. RJ took some early 3s and the team could have gotten those shots at any time during the shot clock. He just rushed them and I think it was because of Auburn's strong defense. In other words, freshman mistake.


I think late in the game, Tre was continuing to run the offense when it would have been better suited to have the ball in his hands a little longer. In other words, freshman mistake. As for Marques, he was fantastic. If he plays with this much energy, we will really, really be good.

As for the posters(not uh-no) that are complaining that Coach K did not go deeper in the rotation, they didn't see the same AOC and Javin that I did.

Alex is having a lot of trouble staying with his man and his handle is a little suspect and Javin looks lost at times on the court. As budwom noted, His foul with a couple of seconds on the clock was not smart. He's a junior captain for gosh sakes. He just hasn't got it yet.

Observations: Duke had 14 offensive rebounds with Marques getting 5. Three players with 9 and one with 7 rebounds. .
We shot 67.6 on FTs, not bad but not great. I hope we improve to at least 70%. Put the ball in Cam's hands at the end of games.

Tre with 6 assists and 1 turnover. And he played great defense all game. Keep it up young man.

Marques with 7 blocks. Keep that up and you'll be a captain pretty soon.


Good game against a good team.

GoDuke!

sagegrouse
11-21-2018, 10:53 AM
As noted, not surprising that the half-court offense still needs some work. I really liked (what I only saw once though I may have missed it) the 4 high / 1 low set where Zion attacked off the wing. Trey / Jack / Cam / RJ / AOC are going to have to keep defenses honest or we are going to see a ton of packed lanes. I'm not sure what the magic 3% percentage is (33%?), but if we can stay at or above it, we are a true pick your poison type of team. Fortunately RCZ can all make the pull-up free throw jumper.

I didn't see much feeding Zion in the post (low or mid). With his quickness to spin and get off the ground, and elite finishing ability, it would seem that would be a really good option. Certainly teams are going to try and push him off the low block (like they did with Bagley), but Zion strikes me as a guy who isn't going to move if he doesn't want to move.

Re: Zion. I thought Duke changed the offense at halftime to give Zion more looks -- but out on a wing, where he could drive.

devildeac
11-21-2018, 10:56 AM
110-101 unadjusted
119-89 adjusted

Which is almost bang on our actual ratings.

The "bad" split is everything following the under-4 timeout in the first half. There were 40 more possessions, in which auburn autscored us 50-44, or 125-110 tempo free. So despite not being happy with how our offense played, it was actually pretty consistent over the course of the game...with our output over the last 24 minutes being consistent with the output over the first 16. The defense, however, fell off a cliff. A lot of it was they started to make some shots.

Thank you!

I'm not going to go back and review all their shots, but, I *think* at one point they were (about) 5/24 on 3s and finished 11/32. No wonder the final margin was "only" 6 points.

devildeac
11-21-2018, 11:15 AM
Who holds the Duke MBB record for most blocked shots in a game? And, for bonus sporks, how many shots did this player block? (Guesses first before researching it like I did :o.)

OldPhiKap
11-21-2018, 11:25 AM
Who holds the Duke MBB record for most blocked shots in a game? And, for bonus sporks, how many shots did this player block? (Guesses first before researching it like I did :o.)

I'm sure I'm wrong -- but I'll guess Sheldon and 11. Probably way off on both.

BLPOG
11-21-2018, 11:36 AM
Duke (http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?clip=5902751&cid=901&db_oem_id=4200)

I haven't been able to find the Auburn portion.

JayZee
11-21-2018, 11:36 AM
The biggest thing with Bolden is keeping his hands up to block shots. The past couple seasons he would always, always bring his hands down to meet the ball down low for a block which will get called by the ref a majority of the time. Tonight he was keeping his hands straight up and blocking the ball after it was released by the Auburn players. He has great size and great reach. He'll be able to a lot of balls before they reach their apex up in the air. He has to remember that. An altered shot is very good also. He doesn't have to block every single shot.

Totally agree. It's like he went to the Wendell Carter school of straight up - two hand defense. I guess once we finally stopped having point guards teach big men... Kidding.

MChambers
11-21-2018, 11:44 AM
Who holds the Duke MBB record for most blocked shots in a game? And, for bonus sporks, how many shots did this player block? (Guesses first before researching it like I did :o.)

I'd say Cherokee, with 12. But Gman and Shelden could hold it.

JayZee
11-21-2018, 11:51 AM
110-101 unadjusted
119-89 adjusted

Which is almost bang on our actual ratings.

The "bad" split is everything following the under-4 timeout in the first half. There were 40 more possessions, in which auburn autscored us 50-44, or 125-110 tempo free. So despite not being happy with how our offense played, it was actually pretty consistent over the course of the game...with our output over the last 24 minutes being consistent with the output over the first 16. The defense, however, fell off a cliff. A lot of it was they started to make some shots.

They started making some crazy contested 3s. This is where the current state of advanced stats (that we see) starts to break down. There is a difference between and uncontested make and a contested make (also uncontested miss) I'm sure teams are looking at that level of granularity.

I think that the team was also getting tired, especially mentally tired near the end of the game and it really showed on D. They seemed like they really just wanted to get out of there asap. I hope that tonight they can push through the mental and physical exhaustion.

subzero02
11-21-2018, 11:53 AM
I'm sure I'm wrong -- but I'll guess Sheldon and 11. Probably way off on both.

Who is Sheldon?

House P
11-21-2018, 11:54 AM
For rotation hawks, who pore over our rotations with a fine-toothed comb, I would say Alex and JGold's minutes should be combined into a single "man" and therefore with played an 8-man rotation, which is reasonable in a competitive game against a top-10 team.


Based on the way things went in the 1st half, I thought there was a chance we would see a rare Duke game where 9 or more guys got 5+ minutes in a competitive game vs a good team. Here is the 1st half playing time:



Player
Minutes Played


Jones
18:58


Barrett
18:58


White
14:00


Williamson
14:00


Bolden
11:20


Javin
8:40


Reddish
6:44


Goldwire
2:55


O'Connell
2:48



Then, in the 2nd half, Duke essentially went to a 6 man rotation. Javin only played 1:26 in the 2nd half and Goldwire and O'Connell didn't play at all.

I think it will be interesting to see if Goldwire continues to get a couple minutes against top teams or whether his 2 appearances in the 1st half yesterday are an anomaly due to several factors (early season, 3 games in 3 days, foul trouble).



Yep, and I never felt like Auburn was going to take the lead, either. (Although other viewers of the game might have experienced it differently). I felt comfortable we were going to win throughout.


KenPom pretty much agrees with you. According to his win probably graphs, Auburn spend a total 47 seconds in the 2nd half with a 10% or greater chance of winning the game (the first 35 seconds of the half when Duke lead by 8 and the 12 seconds between the time when Auburn hit a 3 to cut the lead to 5 and Cam answered with a 3 to push the lead back to 8).

Kedsy
11-21-2018, 11:59 AM
For rotation hawks, who pore over our rotations with a fine-toothed comb, I would say Alex and JGold's minutes should be combined into a single "man" and therefore with played an 8-man rotation, which is reasonable in a competitive game against a top-10 team.

I usually agree with your take on things, but this is beyond a stretch. First, AOC and Jordan G combined for a total of 6 minutes. If the 8th man getting 6 minutes counts as having an 8-man rotation, we've completely changed the definition. Second, you can't combine two people into "a single man." There have been many, many games over the years where the 8th and 9th guys have combined to play 6+ minutes, but we've never thought Coach K played an 8-man rotation before.


I think Javin is having a brain dead year, let's way too many balls that he gets his hands on get ripped away too. He looks out of sync. Right now doing very little with his speed, height and athleticism...all of which is undeniable.

Javin has fouled way too much so far this season. Beyond that, I completely disagree with your take. In both advanced stats and per minute stats, he leads the team in defensive rebounding (2nd behind Zion in rebounding overall) and is second on the team in steals (behind Cam). So the ball seems to stay in his hands in both those areas. He also has our best dRating, so I think he's using his speed, height, and athleticism pretty well on the defensive end of the floor. FWIW, he also leads the team in FG%, eFG%, and true shooting percentage, albeit on not very many shots.

If he suddenly brought his fouls under control and started playing 24 mpg, but did absolutely nothing else different, his stats would be 6.5 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 2 spg, and almost a block a game, on 75% shooting and with great defense, and everyone would be talking about his Zoubekian turnaround.

Lest you think my last is a fanciful statement, I'd point out that after five games Javin has 8.8 fouls per 40 and after five games in 2009-10, Brian Zoubek had 9.6 fouls per 40.

I think other than the fouls, Javin's doing fine.

House P
11-21-2018, 12:03 PM
I was also impressed with how many blocks we kept in play, leading to a rebound and a run-out the other way. Bang bang.

I noticed this as well. In fact, according to the play-by-play data, 6 of Bolden's 7 blocked shots were "rebounded" by Duke. So, not only was he keeping the ball in play, the ball was almost always recovered by Duke.

uh_no
11-21-2018, 12:17 PM
They started making some crazy contested 3s. This is where the current state of advanced stats (that we see) starts to break down. There is a difference between and uncontested make and a contested make (also uncontested miss) I'm sure teams are looking at that level of granularity.

I think that the team was also getting tired, especially mentally tired near the end of the game and it really showed on D. They seemed like they really just wanted to get out of there asap. I hope that tonight they can push through the mental and physical exhaustion.

yes and no. It's always iffy to draw to much conclusion from JUST the efficiency of a single game. The variance of expected points from a single shot is simply too high. However, an entire season is a pretty good sample size, and you would expect things like the amount of "prayer" shots which get made and "good" shots which get missed to largely reach their ultimate expected value.

Now what we can greatly improve our analytics is, as you say, taking shot quality into account, an ultimately, factoring out whether an individual shot was actually made. If my team forces you to take wild heaves from half-court every possession, and you HAPPEN to catch lightning in a bottle, that doesn't say much about my team...as we successfully forced you into taking wild heaves that you SHOULD miss 99/100 times. So the expected value of that shot should be something like .03 points/shot, and THAT'S what should factor into my efficiency, not the 3 that you ended up with.

With the player tracking or whatever that we have now, i'm sure we could start getting into this, at least in certain circumstances, such as the degree to which a 3 was contested. If a given player makes a contested 3 10% of the time, and an open 3 50% of the time, the defense should get penalized .3 points for a contested 3, and 1.5 points for an open 3 regardless of the outcome. This would allow us to make more accurate evaluations of how well a defense actually played in a smaller sample size rather than needing a whole season's worth of data for good/bad shooting nights to even out.

devildeac
11-21-2018, 12:26 PM
Who holds the Duke MBB record for most blocked shots in a game? And, for bonus sporks, how many shots did this player block? (Guesses first before researching it like I did :o.)


I'm sure I'm wrong -- but I'll guess Sheldon and 11. Probably way off on both.


I'd say Cherokee, with 12. But Gman and Shelden could hold it.

Cherokee Parks with 10 on 3/11/94 vs Clemson

Source: https://dukereport.com/single-game-records/

Box score: http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=19940311

Amazingly, no triple-double that game :eek:

devildeac
11-21-2018, 12:31 PM
In the MOTM thread, Jason mentioned the 2004-2005 VT game where Dock had 6 steals. Who holds the steals record for Duke MBB for a single game and how many? I think both answers will surprise.

sagegrouse
11-21-2018, 12:33 PM
Cherokee Parks with 10 on 3/11/94 vs Clemson

Source: https://dukereport.com/single-game-records/

Box score: http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/games/boxscore.php?gameid=19940311

Amazingly, no triple-double that game :eek:

Cherokee and Shelden, but Gminski rules the block statistics. The G-Man has six of the top 13 listings. Shelden has five, and the Chief and Battier one mention each.

BLOCKED SHOTS
Rk Name vs. Opponent, Date Blk
1. Cherokee Parks (Jr.) vs. Clemson, 3/11/1994 [t-10] 10
 Shelden Williams (Sr.) vs. Maryland, 1/11/2006 [t-10] 10
3. Mike Gminski (Fr.) at Davidson, 1/5/1977 9
Mike Gminski (So.) vs. NC State, 2/15/1978 9
Mike Gminski (Jr.) at Davidson, 1/2/1979 9
Mike Gminski (Sr.) vs. Wake Forest, 11/30/1979 9
Shelden Williams (Jr.) vs. Virginia, 1/16/2005 9
Shelden Williams (Sr.) vs. Davidson, 11/19/2005 9
9. Mike Gminski (Fr.) vs. Connecticut, 12/14/1976 8
Mike Gminski (Sr.) vs. Vermont, 12/28/1979 8
Shane Battier (Jr.) vs. Kansas, 3/19/2000 8
Shelden Williams (So.) vs. Wake Forest, 1/17/2004 8
Shelden Williams (Sr.) vs. Virginia, 1/28/2006 8

devildeac
11-21-2018, 12:42 PM
Cherokee and Shelden, but Gminski rules the block statistics. The G-Man has six of the top 13 listings. Shelden has five, and the Chief and Battier one mention each.

BLOCKED SHOTS
Rk Name vs. Opponent, Date Blk
1. Cherokee Parks (Jr.) vs. Clemson, 3/11/1994 [t-10] 10
 Shelden Williams (Sr.) vs. Maryland, 1/11/2006 [t-10] 10
3. Mike Gminski (Fr.) at Davidson, 1/5/1977 9
Mike Gminski (So.) vs. NC State, 2/15/1978 9
Mike Gminski (Jr.) at Davidson, 1/2/1979 9
Mike Gminski (Sr.) vs. Wake Forest, 11/30/1979 9
Shelden Williams (Jr.) vs. Virginia, 1/16/2005 9
Shelden Williams (Sr.) vs. Davidson, 11/19/2005 9
9. Mike Gminski (Fr.) vs. Connecticut, 12/14/1976 8
Mike Gminski (Sr.) vs. Vermont, 12/28/1979 8
Shane Battier (Jr.) vs. Kansas, 3/19/2000 8
Shelden Williams (So.) vs. Wake Forest, 1/17/2004 8
Shelden Williams (Sr.) vs. Virginia, 1/28/2006 8

Ha! Looks like I can't even trust dukereport.com which I *guess* is some sort of semi-official Duke-related site. :eek:

thewoosh31
11-21-2018, 01:01 PM
Did anyone else jump out of their seat and let out a cheer/squeal/giggle like I did when Ques blocked the shot, ran down the court, and finished the alley-oop?

I'm so happy for the kid, especially after all he's been through with injuries, maturation, and negative perceptions b/c he's an introvert by nature.

I think the last time I jumped out of my seat like that was in 2015 when Tyus hit the dagger 3 pointer in the NC game.

OldPhiKap
11-21-2018, 01:06 PM
Did anyone else jump out of their seat and let out a cheer/squeal/giggle like I did when Ques blocked the shot, ran down the court, and finished the alley-oop?

I

Play of the game for me. That, and his jam-back rebound.

I wholly agree -- could not be happier for the kid.

He and K both talked about handling the negative stuff in the post-game press conference -- recommend it highly if you have not seen it yet. Mature.

thewoosh31
11-21-2018, 01:33 PM
Play of the game for me. That, and his jam-back rebound.

I wholly agree -- could not be happier for the kid.

He and K both talked about handling the negative stuff in the post-game press conference -- recommend it highly if you have not seen it yet. Mature.

Indeed. It was the first thing I searched for (post game quotes) since I had heard that Ques and Tre were the ones interviewed. Love guys with character getting their due!

jv001
11-21-2018, 02:33 PM
I usually agree with your take on things, but this is beyond a stretch. First, AOC and Jordan G combined for a total of 6 minutes. If the 8th man getting 6 minutes counts as having an 8-man rotation, we've completely changed the definition. Second, you can't combine two people into "a single man." There have been many, many games over the years where the 8th and 9th guys have combined to play 6+ minutes, but we've never thought Coach K played an 8-man rotation before.



Javin has fouled way too much so far this season. Beyond that, I completely disagree with your take. In both advanced stats and per minute stats, he leads the team in defensive rebounding (2nd behind Zion in rebounding overall) and is second on the team in steals (behind Cam). So the ball seems to stay in his hands in both those areas. He also has our best dRating, so I think he's using his speed, height, and athleticism pretty well on the defensive end of the floor. FWIW, he also leads the team in FG%, eFG%, and true shooting percentage, albeit on not very many shots.

If he suddenly brought his fouls under control and started playing 24 mpg, but did absolutely nothing else different, his stats would be 6.5 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 2 spg, and almost a block a game, on 75% shooting and with great defense, and everyone would be talking about his Zoubekian turnaround.

Lest you think my last is a fanciful statement, I'd point out that after five games Javin has 8.8 fouls per 40 and after five games in 2009-10, Brian Zoubek had 9.6 fouls per 40.

I think other than the fouls, Javin's doing fine.

Thanks for the number on Javin. It got me thinking about Javin's career numbers. Here are a few:


ppg= 3.0, rpg= 3.6, bpg= .5, stls=.6, FT%= .542, FG%= .67%. Turnovers for career= 35, Fouls for career= 105.

Javin has averaged 11.3 mpg over his career. So, you are probably correct Javin could have a decent career if not for the foul troubles. I believe some of his foul troubles comes from not being in the right spot on defense and some silly fouls on defense and rebounds. He has the speed and hops to be a very good player but he doesn't stay on the court long enough to show what he's fully capable of. I think Coach K has his minutes per game about right. And if I'm reading godukestats correctly, I don't think Javin has ever been disqualified for fouls. I thought for sure he had fouled out of a game or two. GoDuke!

MChambers
11-21-2018, 02:58 PM
In the MOTM thread, Jason mentioned the 2004-2005 VT game where Dock had 6 steals. Who holds the steals record for Duke MBB for a single game and how many? I think both answers will surprise.

I’d guess Grant or Shane, but for your clue about surprise. Mason? 8?

OldPhiKap
11-21-2018, 03:10 PM
I’d guess Grant or Shane, but for your clue about surprise. Mason? 8?

Yeah, I'd guess Amaker or Battier but neither of those would surprise me. I'll go with 7.

If I was going with surprise, I'll throw out Dunleavy as a possibility.

jv001
11-21-2018, 03:30 PM
Yeah, I'd guess Amaker or Battier but neither of those would surprise me. I'll go with 7.

If I was going with surprise, I'll throw out Dunleavy as a possibility.

I'll go with South Stokes great and Duke great, Kenny Dennard with 11. :cool:GoDuke!

HereBeforeCoachK
11-21-2018, 03:54 PM
I'll go Laettner with 7 or 8

devildeac
11-21-2018, 04:37 PM
I'll go with South Stokes great and Duke great, Kenny Dennard with 11. :cool:GoDuke!

That is indeed correct. Done without Mr. Google's assistance? :rolleyes:

"Steals Kenny Dennard 11 2/3/79 Maryland"

https://dukereport.com/single-game-records/

Let's see if sage corrects this one, too. :p

devildeac
11-21-2018, 04:38 PM
I’d guess Grant or Shane, but for your clue about surprise. Mason? 8?


Yeah, I'd guess Amaker or Battier but neither of those would surprise me. I'll go with 7.

If I was going with surprise, I'll throw out Dunleavy as a possibility.

See above. I'd never have guessed Dennard nor the #11.

jv001
11-21-2018, 04:39 PM
That is indeed correct. Done without Mr. Google's assistance? :rolleyes:

"Steals Kenny Dennard 11 2/3/79 Maryland"

https://dukereport.com/single-game-records/

Let's see if sage corrects this one, too. :p

Who is this Mr. Google fellow you refer to? :cool: Does he play for an ACC team? GoDuke and Happy Thanksgiving.

devildeac
11-21-2018, 04:42 PM
Who is this Mr. Google fellow you refer to? :cool: Does he play for an ACC team? GoDuke and Happy Thanksgiving.

I thought so...

;)

jv001
11-21-2018, 09:24 PM
I thought so...

;)

devildeac, you know my memory is not what it used to be. :confused: But Kenny went to South Stokes High School and that's where my best friend, Leroy Myers coached back in the day. Coach Myers told me some great stories about KD. The 1978 Duke team still remains one of my all time favorites. Kenny, Gene and G-Man formed a great front line. GoDuke!

devildeac
11-21-2018, 10:27 PM
devildeac, you know my memory is not what it used to be. :confused: But Kenny went to South Stokes High School and that's where my best friend, Leroy Myers coached back in the day. Coach Myers told me some great stories about KD. The 1978 Duke team still remains one of my all time favorites. Kenny, Gene and G-Man formed a great front line. GoDuke!

I'd have never guessed it was Kenny D with that record with guys like Shane, Amaker, Hurley, King, Wojo and G. Hill as former NDPOY. :eek:

Kedsy
11-22-2018, 12:18 AM
That is indeed correct. Done without Mr. Google's assistance? :rolleyes:

"Steals Kenny Dennard 11 2/3/79 Maryland"

https://dukereport.com/single-game-records/

Let's see if sage corrects this one, too. :p

I was actually in attendance at that game. Sadly, I didn't remember Kenny Dennard had that many steals.