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scottdude8
11-15-2018, 10:17 AM
I haven't seen a thread of this nature yet this year and I've thought it's been of great use in the past, so I figured I'd start it off this year (mods, if I missed a similar thread or this isn't appropriate yet at this junction please feel free to delete/move as needed). I also wanted to start it based on somewhat selfish motivations to talk about Michigan's thrashing of Villanova, in a true road game, last night.

As amazing as our performance against Kentucky was, this dismantling was arguably on par with it... and it was on the road against the defending national champs. Right now Michigan looks like it'll have one of the best defenses in the country, and is making all those pollsters who picked MSU to win the B1G on Izzo's name alone look somewhat silly. Michigan held Nova to 17 points IN THE FIRST HALF and just 46 for the game, even though the game was never in doubt in the second half.

Michigan lost arguably its three best offensive players from the National Runners Up last season in Mo Wagner, Duncan Robinson, and Muhammad Ali Abdur Rakhman (MAAR as we affectionately, and perhaps necessarily, abbreviated it), but arguably replaced each player with an upgrade defensively. Jon Teske is a legit 7-1 with mobility and shot-blocking ability... if you're a coach and need a textbook example of how a big should play the pick-and-roll, he's the guy to watch. Ignas Brazdeikis is the "other" big-time Canadian entering the college ranks this year, and he's the textbook John Beilein 4... not to mention he played shut down defense all game yesterday and already has an NBA body at 19. Jordan Poole was last year's hero with the buzzer beater against Houston in the tourney and is now starting and providing more athleticism than either Robinson or MAAR, and he has the capability to be a deadeye shooter. All that, plus junior Zavier Simpson is the best on-ball defense PG in the country (I'd bet money on that assertion any day of the week), not to mention a great leader... there were dozens of stories coming out of practice this year about how he was so intense and so mad when anyone scored on him, even in drills, that the coaches needed to get him to take it easy to let the freshmen learn.

The offense is lagging a bit behind the D early on, especially given that this team doesn't shoot the 3 as well as typical Beilein teams. But every Beilein team has improved significantly over the course of the season (think inverse Roy Williams, lol). With this elite D Michigan will be in every game it plays this year, and probably should be the B1G favorites. If the O catches up to the D, which history indicates is a real possibility, Michigan is a legit Final Four contender.

So, with that out of the way... what other non-Duke/non-ACC action has caught your attention so far this season?

Faustus
11-15-2018, 11:44 AM
From watching bits of a couple of IU games, they look surprisingly talented - keep them in mind for after the return trip from Maui. (Of course they haven't played a road game yet.)

I've always intensely disliked Georgetown and have been quite pleased at how they'd disappeared from national importance of late, but I watched a good deal of their game at Illinois the other night, and their freshmen put on an unexpectedly good performance. There are indeed other talented teams out there this year. But yeah, Meechigan was an eye-opener last night.

Will be interested in watching Syracuse tonight. FSU was, as always, rangy and athletic in dismantling Florida recently. I didn't have the stomach to watch UNC the other night...

scottdude8
11-15-2018, 12:17 PM
From watching bits of a couple of IU games, they look surprisingly talented - keep them in mind for after the return trip from Maui. (Of course they haven't played a road game yet.)

I've always intensely disliked Georgetown and have been quite pleased at how they'd disappeared from national importance of late, but I watched a good deal of their game at Illinois the other night, and their freshmen put on an unexpectedly good performance. There are indeed other talented teams out there this year. But yeah, Meechigan was an eye-opener last night.

Will be interested in watching Syracuse tonight. FSU was, as always, rangy and athletic in dismantling Florida recently. I didn't have the stomach to watch UNC the other night...

Having my ear to the ground when it comes to the B1G I'll say that IU fans are getting very antsy. Even though it's only Archie Miller's second year the scuttlebutt is already saying he could be on the hot seat if they get off to a slow start (which is objectively insane in year two if you don't have any scandal-like events). I would bet they're going to come into Cameron very motivated... whether or not that makes a difference obviously remains to be seen.

Troublemaker
11-15-2018, 01:52 PM
So, with that out of the way... what other non-Duke/non-ACC action has caught your attention so far this season?

Auburn and Gonzaga. What a Maui field this year!


Having my ear to the ground when it comes to the B1G I'll say that IU fans are getting very antsy. Even though it's only Archie Miller's second year the scuttlebutt is already saying he could be on the hot seat if they get off to a slow start (which is objectively insane in year two if you don't have any scandal-like events).

The fans can think what they want, but that seems unlikely to be the stance that the IU administration would take, which is what matters. Everyone knows Archie's a great young coach, so they're going to give him time. It's all moot anyway since he doesn't seem to really need the time. This IU team will contend for the Big 10 title, and Duke's non-conference slate this season is insane.

HereBeforeCoachK
11-15-2018, 03:52 PM
Wake stayed within 20 of the mighty St. Joes Hawks.....losing merely 89-69. Tim Duncan, call your office...

NSDukeFan
11-15-2018, 07:55 PM
Wake stayed within 20 of the mighty St. Joes Hawks....losing merely 89-69. Tim Duncan, call your office...

Was Jameer Nelson playing for St. Joe’s?

scottdude8
11-19-2018, 12:05 PM
So perhaps the biggest upset of the year so far, and maybe one of the biggest we'll see all year, happened over the weekend when Furman took down Villanova. I can't remember a defending champ, at least one that wasn't one-and-done driven, getting out to a worse start than Nova has this year. A bit disappointing as a Wolverine fan since it devalues our victory over them a bit, haha... knowing Jay Wright this team will still end up competing for a Big East title, but I think the upside for us, and the college basketball world at large, is that the Big East is definitely in a down year this year and won't be as large a threat for a No. 1 seed (let alone two!) as they have been the past few years.

scottdude8
11-28-2018, 11:07 PM
Turn on the Michigan-UNC game if anyone needs a dose of schadenfreude. Ole Roy is fuming. Took the whole starting lineup out down 10 and Michigan doubled the lead while Roy just sat dejected on the bench. Glorious.

BigWayne
12-05-2018, 03:22 AM
Furman, having bested two of last year's final four teams yet pushed to two OTs by the Catamounts, is now ranked in the top 25. Their next challenging game is LSU on Dec. 21st so they could be ranked a few weeks.

HereBeforeCoachK
12-05-2018, 04:15 AM
Wofford led Kansas into the 17 min mark....then Kansas went on like a 32-5 run.....

weezie
12-05-2018, 07:35 AM
Oh aaarrgh, Collins and Northwestern alllllmost takes the mi wolvies down. So darned close!

scottdude8
12-05-2018, 10:54 AM
Oh aaarrgh, Collins and Northwestern alllllmost takes the mi wolvies down. So darned close!

I was very nervous about last night's game and the Wildcats justified those nerves... they always seem to play the Wolverines close since Collins got there. We had multiple double digit leads and Northwestern always came back. I'm happy that Michigan got a taste of some adversity and fought through it before B1G play got going in earnest (I wouldn't want them steamrolling everybody the way they have and not learning to play with game pressure). But the Wildcats are definitely going to challenge for an upset or two this year and could be in the running for a tourney spot if they do so.

scottdude8
12-05-2018, 12:45 PM
Also re: Michigan vs. Northwestern, the guys over at mgoblog.com taking a bit of a (reasonable? debatable) shot at Collins for his over-enthusiasm:8860

Stray Gator
12-05-2018, 01:18 PM
Also re: Michigan vs. Northwestern, the guys over at mgoblog.com taking a bit of a (reasonable? debatable) shot at Collins for his over-enthusiasm:8860

Well, as I recall, that guy they're mocking enjoyed a 3-1 record against Michigan as a player. And the unranked team he now coaches gave their 5th-ranked team a down-to-the-buzzer scare last night. So maybe he knows a little something about besting the Wolverines.

scottdude8
12-05-2018, 02:11 PM
Well, as I recall, that guy they're mocking enjoyed a 3-1 record against Michigan as a player. And the unranked team he now coaches gave their 5th-ranked team a down-to-the-buzzer scare last night. So maybe he knows a little something about besting the Wolverines.

Haha point very well taken. Still humorous, nonetheless.

JasonEvans
12-05-2018, 03:11 PM
Haha point very well taken. Still humorous, nonetheless.

I mean, there are other ways a coach can act to help his team fight for a victory, though they are not proven to be very successful.

https://wolverineswire.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/usatsi_11752203_168386303_lowres.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1

gam7
12-06-2018, 01:25 AM
Gonzaga 81, Washington 79. Hachimura hits elbow jumper with 0.6 on the clock to give Gonzaga the win.

I don't want to say it... I really don't want to say it... I'm going to say it. There is something intangible about Hachimura this year that is somehow reminding me of '98-'99 Richard Hamilton. (I know their games are different. It's something intangible.) Yes, still scarred.

Billy Dat
12-06-2018, 08:22 AM
Gonzaga 81, Washington 79. Hachimura hits elbow jumper with 0.6 on the clock to give Gonzaga the win.

I don't want to say it... I really don't want to say it... I'm going to say it. There is something intangible about Hachimura this year that is somehow reminding me of '98-'99 Richard Hamilton. (I know their games are different. It's something intangible.) Yes, still scarred.

It will be interesting to see how they are able to re-integrate Killian Tillie in about a month. He'll return during their traditionally weak conference season which is good for the Zags from a W-L perspective but I am sure, pre NCAAs, they would have liked to have had their full line-up for some of the monster non-con games they are playing now. Tillie will command touches and shots, how will that impact the chemistry they are developing and Hachimura's emerging alpha dog role? I think I am reaching for potential negatives around the availability of a returning-leading-scorer, but that's all I got.

devildeac
12-06-2018, 09:57 AM
Gonzaga 81, Washington 79. Hachimura hits elbow jumper with 0.6 on the clock to give Gonzaga the win.

I don't want to say it... I really don't want to say it... I'm going to say it. There is something intangible about Hachimura this year that is somehow reminding me of '98-'99 Richard Hamilton. (I know their games are different. It's something intangible.) Yes, still scarred.



Gonzaga Bulldogs Dec 15, 7:00 PM at the dean's myth center

Go Bulldogs!

HereBeforeCoachK
12-06-2018, 09:59 AM
It will be interesting to see how they are able to re-integrate Killian Tillie in about a month. He'll return during their traditionally weak conference season which is good for the Zags from a W-L perspective but I am sure, pre NCAAs, they would have liked to have had their full line-up for some of the monster non-con games they are playing now. Tillie will command touches and shots, how will that impact the chemistry they are developing and Hachimura's emerging alpha dog role? I think I am reaching for potential negatives around the availability of a returning-leading-scorer, but that's all I got.

I tried to spork.....but who knows, after spreading this comment around, it may let me spork you now....:D

Troublemaker
12-06-2018, 10:50 AM
Gonzaga 81, Washington 79. Hachimura hits elbow jumper with 0.6 on the clock to give Gonzaga the win.

I don't want to say it... I really don't want to say it... I'm going to say it. There is something intangible about Hachimura this year that is somehow reminding me of '98-'99 Richard Hamilton. (I know their games are different. It's something intangible.) Yes, still scarred.

It's already different because that UConn team didn't have to beat Duke twice.

If, in '99, the national championship game had been the 2nd meeting between Duke and UConn, with the first meeting won by UConn in a game that went down to the wire and was lost when Duke's shooting guard went 1-on-1 on the final play and failed, with Coach K being much-criticized for his endgame coaching afterwards, that second meeting might've gone quite differently.

That said, I don't want to compare this Duke team to the '99 version just yet. They'll have to earn that over the course of the season. (And there's no shame if they aren't quite that good a team, of course.)

Tripping William
12-06-2018, 10:53 AM
Gonzaga 81, Washington 79. Hachimura hits elbow jumper with 0.6 on the clock to give Gonzaga the win.

I don't want to say it... I really don't want to say it... I'm going to say it. There is something intangible about Hachimura this year that is somehow reminding me of '98-'99 Richard Hamilton. (I know their games are different. It's something intangible.) Yes, still scarred.

Too soon, dude, too soon. Some of our current players were alive when that went down . . . .

gam7
12-06-2018, 11:20 AM
It's already different because that UConn team didn't have to beat Duke twice.

If, in '99, the national championship game had been the 2nd meeting between Duke and UConn, with the first meeting won by UConn in a game that went down to the wire and was lost when Duke's shooting guard went 1-on-1 on the final play and failed, with Coach K being much-criticized for his endgame coaching afterwards, that second meeting might've gone quite differently.

That said, I don't want to compare this Duke team to the '99 version just yet. They'll have to earn that over the course of the season. (And there's no shame if they aren't quite that good a team, of course.)
I too would like our chances in a Gonzaga rematch, although
I actually was not saying anything about Duke '99 or Duke-UConn. I meant it as a comment about Richard Hamilton that year. I remember feeling a kind of inevitability that he was going to succeed. E.g., that game earlier in the '99 tournament when he hit that buzzer beater in the lane to win it - it felt inevitable. Hachimura has some of that.

Also agree that Tillie will change the dynamic. I don't have a good feel for Tillie's game and I'm certain that I underrate him, but as far as I am concerned, I'm all for it if it means fewer shots for Hachimura and Norvell.

Edit: But, if people do start making UConn/Gonzaga comparisons I get the most Crystal Ball (or Crystal Spork?) points!

tbyers11
12-06-2018, 01:13 PM
I too would like our chances in a Gonzaga rematch, although
I actually was not saying anything about Duke '99 or Duke-UConn. I meant it as a comment about Richard Hamilton that year. I remember feeling a kind of inevitability that he was going to succeed. E.g., that game earlier in the '99 tournament when he hit that buzzer beater in the lane to win it - it felt inevitable. Hachimura has some of that.

Also agree that Tillie will change the dynamic. I don't have a good feel for Tillie's game and I'm certain that I underrate him, but as far as I am concerned, I'm all for it if it means fewer shots for Hachimura and Norvell.

Edit: But, if people do start making UConn/Gonzaga comparisons I get the most Crystal Ball (or Crystal Spork?) points!

Hachimura is making key plays late. Rip Hamilton made key plays late. I get where you are coming from.

However, Richard Hamilton's NCAA buzzer-beating game-winner against Washington was in the 1998 tournament. UConn lost to UNC in the Elite 8 that year.



https://youtu.be/YrBHtC2mR9E

SavDukeGrad
12-09-2018, 03:03 PM
Alabama just defeated Arizona in Tuscaloosa. But Chase Jeter had a career high 19 points (per the announcers). He really seems to have improved; such a shame he couldn’t realize that potential at Duke.

MartyClark
12-09-2018, 03:46 PM
Alabama just defeated Arizona in Tuscaloosa. But Chase Jeter had a career high 19 points (per the announcers). He really seems to have improved; such a shame he couldn’t realize that potential at Duke.

I watched the first half, didn't see the second. I was thinking of posting about Chase Jeter but you beat me to it.

He has improved, as we would hope, two seasons removed from Duke. He is less tentative and seems to have more confidence in his shot.

I liked him at Duke. He seemed to be a solid kid who, even when he wasn't getting much burn, supported his teammates. I'm glad he is doing well.

I think he made a good decision to transfer. I don't think he would have gotten much playing time last year competing with Carter and Bagley. I don't think he would crack the top 6 or 7 this year either.

Someone else commented on this earlier but the uneven length of Chase's uniform pants are a little weird. I'm not a fashion maven but I don't see this catching on.

dukelifer
12-09-2018, 04:41 PM
Zags and Vols in a heck of a battle. Feels like a tourney game.

duke2x
12-09-2018, 08:55 PM
Gonzaga goes down at home to Rocky Top. I assume KS will be #1 despite struggling with NMSU.

AGDukesky
12-09-2018, 09:00 PM
Gonzaga goes down at home to Rocky Top. I assume KS will be #1 despite struggling with NMSU.

Minor correction but the game was played in Phoenix

UrinalCake
12-12-2018, 10:51 AM
Quite a change of fortunes for Villanova. A month or so ago they were on top of the basketball world, having won two of the past three titles and with another top-10 team. Their recruiting was on a roll, bringing in a highly rated class that even included a 5-star in Javon Quinerly and highly sought-after transfer Joe Cremo. They stole Bryan Antoine from us and really seemed set to continue rolling.

Now they have three losses already, two to unranked teams, Quinerly is tweeting out disparaging things about his team and rumors are flying that he may transfer. It’s still early and you can’t take away what they’ve done in recent years, but it’s kind of a reminder that things can change fast.

EDIT: looks like I wrote this post simulateously with thedukelamere. Great minds think alike!

thedukelamere
12-12-2018, 10:52 AM
What in the world is going on with 'Nova? They usually stay out of the news and quietly churn out W's, now they are doing neither... On top of losing to Penn last night, 5* frosh Jahvon Quinerly (who played only 1 minute last against Penn and was averaging 9.9 mpg prior) posted to Instagram a cryptic "Was my 2nd choice for a reason."

Quinerly, as you may or may not remember, originally committed to Zona and ended up at Villanova due to the bribery charges against Emanuel Richardson. Not a good look.

http://www.villanovan.com/sports/jahvon-quinerly-leaves-future-in-doubt-with-instagram-story/article_4c7dfa4c-fdca-11e8-89fa-eb13632dee6e.html

CrazyNotCrazie
12-12-2018, 11:11 AM
Quite a change of fortunes for Villanova. A month or so ago they were on top of the basketball world, having won two of the past three titles and with another top-10 team. Their recruiting was on a roll, bringing in a highly rated class that even included a 5-star in Javon Quinerly and highly sought-after transfer Joe Cremo. They stole Bryan Antoine from us and really seemed set to continue rolling.

Now they have three losses already, two to unranked teams, Quinerly is tweeting out disparaging things about his team and rumors are flying that he may transfer. It’s still early and you can’t take away what they’ve done in recent years, but it’s kind of a reminder that things can change fast.

EDIT: looks like I wrote this post simulateously with thedukelamere. Great minds think alike!

I watched the second half of the game last night (there are several Penn degrees in my immediate family - go Quakers!) and kept thinking there was someone not playing for Villanova and couldn't figure out who it was. The game was a case of Penn out hustling Villanova and I think Wright got outcoached. Villanova was also likely looking past Penn to its game at Kansas this Saturday. They have plenty of talent and still are not a team that I would want to face but it seems like Wright has a big coaching job ahead of him.

Is there a backstory on how little Quinerly is playing? His tweet does not reflect well on him. One has to wonder how long he will stick around. I assume that one and done is not likely for him?

TruBlu
12-12-2018, 11:20 AM
I watched the second half of the game last night (there are several Penn degrees in my immediate family - go Quakers!) and kept thinking there was someone not playing for Villanova and couldn't figure out who it was. The game was a case of Penn out hustling Villanova and I think Wright got outcoached. Villanova was also likely looking past Penn to its game at Kansas this Saturday. They have plenty of talent and still are not a team that I would want to face but it seems like Wright has a big coaching job ahead of him.

Is there a backstory on how little Quinerly is playing? His tweet does not reflect well on him. One has to wonder how long he will stick around. I assume that one and done is not likely for him?

It sounds like its trending toward being one and done at Nova.

fuse
12-12-2018, 11:25 AM
Social media abuzz with possibilities that former Duke target Quade Green is considering a midseason transfer out of Kentucky.

JasonEvans
12-12-2018, 11:29 AM
Is there a backstory on how little Quinerly is playing? His tweet does not reflect well on him. One has to wonder how long he will stick around. I assume that one and done is not likely for him?

As a 6-0 (maybe 6-1) PG with decent, but not outstanding wingspan of 6-4, he is not someone on the NBA's radar. He's got a rep as a good shooter, but not lights out, and though he can get to the bucket, he's not the kind of freak athlete that thrives in the NBA game. He's probably at least a 2 or 3 year college player.

And I am betting those years are spent somewhere else. After that tweet about "2nd choice" I would not be at all surprised if Jay Wright showed him the door. You just don't take your complaints to the public in a well-run program like Villanova.

-Jason "worth noting that shortly after posting the instagram '2nd choice' note that it was deleted... and now Quinerly's entire Instagram account has been deleted... he may be having second thoughts" Evans

JasonEvans
12-12-2018, 11:34 AM
Social media abuzz with possibilities that former Duke target Quade Green is considering a midseason transfer out of Kentucky.

Sounds like it is pretty close to a done deal (https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentucky/2018/12/12/kentucky-basketball-sophomore-guard-quade-green-transfer-expected/2287855002/), though his destination is unknown. The middle/end of December is a common transfer window.

jv001
12-12-2018, 11:39 AM
I watched the second half of the game last night (there are several Penn degrees in my immediate family - go Quakers!) and kept thinking there was someone not playing for Villanova and couldn't figure out who it was. The game was a case of Penn out hustling Villanova and I think Wright got outcoached. Villanova was also likely looking past Penn to its game at Kansas this Saturday. They have plenty of talent and still are not a team that I would want to face but it seems like Wright has a big coaching job ahead of him.

Is there a backstory on how little Quinerly is playing? His tweet does not reflect well on him. One has to wonder how long he will stick around. I assume that one and done is not likely for him?

Nothing to do with Villanova, but is it my imagination that Kansas plays almost all big name programs at home? Sure sounds that way. Sorry for derailing this thread. Now back to your normal broadcasting station. GoDuke!

SavDukeGrad
12-12-2018, 11:45 AM
I watched the second half of the game last night (there are several Penn degrees in my immediate family - go Quakers!) and kept thinking there was someone not playing for Villanova and couldn't figure out who it was. The game was a case of Penn out hustling Villanova and I think Wright got outcoached. Villanova was also likely looking past Penn to its game at Kansas this Saturday. They have plenty of talent and still are not a team that I would want to face but it seems like Wright has a big coaching job ahead of him.

Is there a backstory on how little Quinerly is playing? His tweet does not reflect well on him. One has to wonder how long he will stick around. I assume that one and done is not likely for him?

I have always thought Steve Donahue is a really good coach. While attending Duke’s first 2 NCAA tournament games in 2010 in Jacksonville, I saw Cornell upset 2 much higher seeded teams (Wisconsin and Temple, the 4 and 5 seeds). His team just seemed to out hustle the others, and he seemed to push all the right buttons.

I was surprised he was not able to translate that success to BC. But I think he’s a really good fit at Penn - he was an assistant there for many years. And Coach K had some really nice things to say about that hire IIRC.

SavDukeGrad
12-12-2018, 11:56 AM
Sounds like it is pretty close to a done deal (https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentucky/2018/12/12/kentucky-basketball-sophomore-guard-quade-green-transfer-expected/2287855002/), though his destination is unknown. The middle/end of December is a common transfer window.

Didn’t he consider transferring at the end of last season? I thought there was speculation that he would transfer at the time, and he was talked out of it by Calipari.

JasonEvans
12-12-2018, 12:17 PM
Didn’t he consider transferring at the end of last season? I thought there was speculation that he would transfer at the time, and he was talked out of it by Calipari.

Yup, which could make talking him out of it this time more difficult. I mean, how many times is he to be expected to drink the Calipari Kool-aid?

UrinalCake
12-12-2018, 12:36 PM
They brought in Quickley and Hagans, next year they’re bringing in Maxey. It’s pretty crowded at PG, and Green didn’t have the elite size or measurables to be a OAD. It happens. I’m not going to throw stones because we’ve had our share of transfers as well.

ncexnyc
12-12-2018, 12:42 PM
I wouldn't make a big thing about what's currently going on at Nova. That program has been playing at a very high level these past few years and a lot of that can be attributed to them having a solid mix of quality talent that had a great deal of experience.

Yes, they lost their 3rd game of the season last night, but two of those losses came to ranked teams (power house Michigan and this year's darling Furman). The loss last night was to a solid Penn team which came into the game with an identical 6-2 record.

A high level of success can often be your own worst enemy. I'd hate to see what this board would look like if our team were to lose 3 games during a 9 game stretch. The season would be over and the world would be coming to an end.

DavidBenAkiva
12-12-2018, 12:59 PM
They brought in Quickley and Hagans, next year they’re bringing in Maxey. It’s pretty crowded at PG, and Green didn’t have the elite size or measurables to be a OAD. It happens. I’m not going to throw stones because we’ve had our share of transfers as well.

The offseason for Kentucky is going to be more interesting than usual. As is, the team is losing Reid Travis. Keldon Johnson, P.J. Washington and E.J. Montgomery are almost certainly leaving, too. Without Green, they might return Nick Richards as well as Quickley, Hagans, Tyler Herro, and Jermarl Baker. Their current recruiting class consists of Maxey and wing/SF Khalil Whitney. They are overloaded at the guard spots and might only have one frontcourt player with few options remaining in the current recruiting class.

JasonEvans
12-12-2018, 01:08 PM
The offseason for Kentucky is going to be more interesting than usual. As is, the team is losing Reid Travis. Keldon Johnson, P.J. Washington and E.J. Montgomery are almost certainly leaving, too. Without Green, they might return Nick Richards as well as Quickley, Hagans, Tyler Herro, and Jermarl Baker. Their current recruiting class consists of Maxey and wing/SF Khalil Whitney. They are overloaded at the guard spots and might only have one frontcourt player with few options remaining in the current recruiting class.

Well, I'm not so sure about EJ turning pro. He is not exactly lighting the world on fire thus far and minutes are hard to find in that front court with Travis and Washington and with the move to more and more small ball in all phases of basketball. NBADraft.net does not have him in either their 2019 or 2020 mock drafts. If Kentucky does not land a stud big man, I could certainly see him sticking around to be the featured front-court player on the 2019-20 team.

-Jason "I don't resent him picking them over us... cause it has opened up minutes in which we have seen Jack White shine" Evans

DavidBenAkiva
12-12-2018, 01:15 PM
I wouldn't make a big thing about what's currently going on at Nova. That program has been playing at a very high level these past few years and a lot of that can be attributed to them having a solid mix of quality talent that had a great deal of experience.

Yes, they lost their 3rd game of the season last night, but two of those losses came to ranked teams (power house Michigan and this year's darling Furman). The loss last night was to a solid Penn team which came into the game with an identical 6-2 record.

A high level of success can often be your own worst enemy. I'd hate to see what this board would look like if our team were to lose 3 games during a 9 game stretch. The season would be over and the world would be coming to an end.

Nova is in danger of being the next Florida. After winning back-to-back NCAA Championships, Florida missed the NCAA Tournament the next two seasons. Nova might be going down that path.

Next year will feature a lot of talent on the roster, but a lot of youth, too. Seniors Phil Booth and Eric Paschall, along with grad transfer Joe Cremo, will be gone. They don't have a junior on the roster that plays any significant minutes. The team is going to be very, very young next year. They will be talented. In addition to Brain Antoine, a potential one-and-done shooting guard, they are bringing in three other 4-star recruits. One is also a shooting guard and other two are power forwards. In time, they are going to have to figure out the point guard situation as sophomore Collin Gillespie has looked so-so in his sophomore year and freshman Jahvon Quinerly has really struggled.

I wouldn't bet against Jay Wright in the long run. But I also should note that Nova hasn't made it out of the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament in 7 of the past 9 seasons. If Nova continues to struggle this year, they may miss the tournament altogether.

DavidBenAkiva
12-12-2018, 01:24 PM
Well, I'm not so sure about EJ turning pro. He is not exactly lighting the world on fire thus far and minutes are hard to find in that front court with Travis and Washington and with the move to more and more small ball in all phases of basketball. NBADraft.net does not have him in either their 2019 or 2020 mock drafts. If Kentucky does not land a stud big man, I could certainly see him sticking around to be the featured front-court player on the 2019-20 team.

-Jason "I don't resent him picking them over us... cause it has opened up minutes in which we have seen Jack White shine" Evans

In the long run, it would make a lot of sense for Montgomery to stick around for a few years in Lexington. But not many players there are taking a long run view of things. Jarred Vanderbilt only played a minor role in 14 games for the Wildcats last season and turned that into a second round draft selection and non-guaranteed minimum salary contract with the Denver Nuggets. Wenyen Gabriel, who was "brave enough to say no to Duke," signed a two-way contract with the Sacramento Kings after going undrafted after last season. The goal lately seems to be to get our as soon as possible.

JasonEvans
12-12-2018, 01:39 PM
Yup, which could make talking him out of it this time more difficult. I mean, how many times is he to be expected to drink the Calipari Kool-aid?

Kentucky has officially announced (https://twitter.com/KentuckyMBB/status/1072917677537198080) that Quade Green is transferring. No word yet on his destination.

COYS
12-12-2018, 02:02 PM
Nova is in danger of being the next Florida. After winning back-to-back NCAA Championships, Florida missed the NCAA Tournament the next two seasons. Nova might be going down that path.

Next year will feature a lot of talent on the roster, but a lot of youth, too. Seniors Phil Booth and Eric Paschall, along with grad transfer Joe Cremo, will be gone. They don't have a junior on the roster that plays any significant minutes. The team is going to be very, very young next year. They will be talented. In addition to Brain Antoine, a potential one-and-done shooting guard, they are bringing in three other 4-star recruits. One is also a shooting guard and other two are power forwards. In time, they are going to have to figure out the point guard situation as sophomore Collin Gillespie has looked so-so in his sophomore year and freshman Jahvon Quinerly has really struggled.

I wouldn't bet against Jay Wright in the long run. But I also should note that Nova hasn't made it out of the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament in 7 of the past 9 seasons. If Nova continues to struggle this year, they may miss the tournament altogether.

This is also a nice reminder of how good we have it as Duke fans. Aside from that brief blip in the mid-90s from which Coach K recovered in a BIG way, Duke is always in the tournament and almost always has a decent shot to win it all. In fact, Duke has never finished a season rated lower than 17th in KenPom, which goes back to 2002. Even the "disastrous" 2007 team was a top 10 KenPom team that lost a few too many close games and could have made a deeper run with better luck.

Anyway, Villanova has not looked good this year, but it's not really all that strange. In addition to the aforementioned Florida teams, UNC followed up '09 with the glorious (for Duke fans) '10 season and UK fell off a cliff in '13. Even the biggest basketball schools can't run out contenders (or even just really good teams) every single season . . . except for Duke, it seems.

Troublemaker
12-12-2018, 05:28 PM
Steph pulls a Kyrie, right down to the subsequent "I was just joking and probably trolling people who takes this so seriously" explanation

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25518468/stephen-curry-golden-state-warriors-says-joking-moon-landing-accept-nasa-invitation

wilson
12-12-2018, 06:04 PM
Steph pulls a Kyrie, right down to the subsequent "I was just joking and probably trolling people who takes this so seriously" explanation

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25518468/stephen-curry-golden-state-warriors-says-joking-moon-landing-accept-nasa-invitationI find this sort of thing really not funny. It's immensely disrespectful to the people who actually pulled that off with the collective computing power of a graphing calculator plus far more courage than it requires to play basketball. I also think it lends undue and dangerous cultural credence to the current fad of just blithely rejecting facts that one finds inconvenient or uncomfortable.
I guess I'd be one of those people who takes this too seriously.

Troublemaker
12-12-2018, 06:33 PM
I find this sort of thing really not funny. It's immensely disrespectful to the people who actually pulled that off with the collective computing power of a graphing calculator plus far more courage than it requires to play basketball. I also think it lends undue and dangerous cultural credence to the current fad of just blithely rejecting facts that one finds inconvenient or uncomfortable.
I guess I'd be one of those people who takes this too seriously.

One thing *I* need to take more seriously is reading. I was obviously looking for the non-Dukies NBA thread. Whoops.

arnie
12-12-2018, 08:18 PM
One thing *I* need to take more seriously is reading. I was obviously looking for the non-Dukies NBA thread. Whoops.

Yea, reading DBR is not taught in most schools, it’s takes lots of practice.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
12-13-2018, 06:17 AM
I find this sort of thing really not funny. It's immensely disrespectful to the people who actually pulled that off with the collective computing power of a graphing calculator plus far more courage than it requires to play basketball. I also think it lends undue and dangerous cultural credence to the current fad of just blithely rejecting facts that one finds inconvenient or uncomfortable.
I guess I'd be one of those people who takes this too seriously.

I also feel like statements such as these show an athlete's disregard for the pedestal on which they have been placed by young people.

In a day where more and more people regurgitate things they hear without checking actual verified sources, this can cause actual damage.

Billy Dat
12-13-2018, 07:19 PM
Former Blue Devil, Jordan Tucker, will suit up for the Butler Bulldogs this coming Saturday:
https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/butler/2018/12/13/duke-transfer-jordan-tucker-make-butler-basketball-debut-vs-iu/2282117002/

sagegrouse
12-13-2018, 07:21 PM
Former Blue Devil, Jordan Tucker, will suit up for the Butler Bulldogs this coming Saturday:
https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/butler/2018/12/13/duke-transfer-jordan-tucker-make-butler-basketball-debut-vs-iu/2282117002/

Ah, Jordan Tucker .. a distant memory, but it was only 12 months ago.

Pghdukie
12-16-2018, 12:18 AM
Watching Baylor/Arizona game and the soft-spoken hippie Bill Walton is on a roll. Such color commentary should be bottled up and saved for prosperity! 4/20 at best.

HereBeforeCoachK
12-16-2018, 08:42 AM
I find this sort of thing really not funny. It's immensely disrespectful to the people who actually pulled that off with the collective computing power of a graphing calculator plus far more courage than it requires to play basketball. I also think it lends undue and dangerous cultural credence to the current fad of just blithely rejecting facts that one finds inconvenient or uncomfortable.
I guess I'd be one of those people who takes this too seriously.

I don't believe him either.....

CrazyNotCrazie
12-21-2018, 10:15 AM
Quade Green to Washington. I believe that in addition to Kentucky he also strongly considered Syracuse and the coach at Washington was the top assistant at Syracuse during Green's recruitment.

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2018/12/20/kentucky-transfer-quade-green-commits-washington

TruBlu
12-21-2018, 07:27 PM
If you want to make your eyes hurt, tune in to the Baylor- Oregon game on ESPN2. Fluorescent yellow versus fluorescent green. At least it’s at Baylor, so you don’t have to suffer Oregon’s hideous court.

robed deity
12-21-2018, 10:41 PM
If you want to make your eyes hurt, tune in to the Baylor- Oregon game on ESPN2. Fluorescent yellow versus fluorescent green. At least it’s at Baylor, so you don’t have to suffer Oregon’s hideous court.

Was interesting to see Makai Mason. Watching Marquette-Buffalo now, Markus Howard can score. 24 straight by himself as it looks like the Bulls will take their first L.

JasonEvans
12-22-2018, 10:04 AM
Watching Marquette-Buffalo now, Markus Howard can score. 24 straight by himself as it looks like the Bulls will take their first L.

Howard scored 40 points... in the second half! He had 45 in the game as the Fighting Wojos knocked of the used-to-be-Hurleys.

-Jason "Marquette looks like the real deal, perhaps the best team in the Big East... Wojo making his K-replacement pitch" Evans

75Crazie
12-22-2018, 11:09 PM
The other Devils (Land of the Sun variety) take down Kansas for the second year in a row, for their first home win against a #1 ever. They never led until 2 minutes left, and somehow hung on for the W.

Sluggo
12-22-2018, 11:11 PM
Strange mix of fans at today's game, caught my eye on TV.
8897

Clipsfan
12-22-2018, 11:44 PM
The other Devils (Land of the Sun variety) take down Kansas for the second year in a row, for their first home win against a #1 ever. They never led until 2 minutes left, and somehow hung on for the W.

And presumably moving Duke back atop the poll...

dukelifer
12-23-2018, 10:12 AM
Howard scored 40 points... in the second half! He had 45 in the game as the Fighting Wojos knocked of the used-to-be-Hurleys.

-Jason "Marquette looks like the real deal, perhaps the best team in the Big East... Wojo making his K-replacement pitch" Evans
But can he coach big men?

MChambers
12-23-2018, 10:17 AM
But can he coach big men?

Definitely needs Alcindor or Laettner as an assistant!

OldPhiKap
12-23-2018, 10:51 AM
Strange mix of fans at today's game, caught my eye on TV.
8897

My new favorite Duke fan.

JasonEvans
12-24-2018, 04:06 PM
Strange mix of fans at today's game, caught my eye on TV.
8897

I have bad news...

This is the shirt he was wearing.
https://vangogh.teespring.com/v3/image/z2-8JuHN22DMVi-Yoi1OC5ijCVo/480/560.jpg

OldPhiKap
12-24-2018, 08:34 PM
I have bad news...

This is the shirt he was wearing.
https://vangogh.teespring.com/v3/image/z2-8JuHN22DMVi-Yoi1OC5ijCVo/480/560.jpg

Oh. That’s different then.

[Emily Litella] Never mind. [/Emily Litella]

HereBeforeCoachK
12-25-2018, 08:09 AM
Oh. That’s different then.

[Emily Litella] Never mind. [/Emily Litella]

...but think about this.....it's a Carolina-Kentucky game, and people are so Duke obsessed they were shirts like that. Amazing.

Seems to me there was a UConn game a few years ago where there were a lot of "DUCK FUKE" shirts in the crowd, and Duke wasn't even playing.....

Rich
12-25-2018, 10:12 AM
...but think about this...it's a Carolina-Kentucky game, and people are so Duke obsessed they were shirts like that. Amazing.

Seems to me there was a UConn game a few years ago where there were a lot of "DUCK FUKE" shirts in the crowd, and Duke wasn't even playing...

Agreed, I always felt that if fans of other teams are wearing shirts that say (or connote) "Duke", even if derogatory, then you just KNOW you're swimming in their little heads playing all sorts of mind games. I love seeing those shirts and it's a reason I refuse to buy any of the "Duke > UNC" shirts the stores offer. Why would I bother to spend money and give their fans the benefit of putting their team's logo on me?

fraggler
12-25-2018, 02:44 PM
I don't know if you all are being facetious or not, but that is definitely not the same shirt that the guy is wearing in that picture. Could still be negative towards Duke, but in the era of fake news, I felt compelled to say something.

JasonEvans
12-25-2018, 03:23 PM
I don't know if you all are being facetious or not, but that is definitely not the same shirt that the guy is wearing in that picture. Could still be negative towards Duke, but in the era of fake news, I felt compelled to say something.

It is not the same shirt but when I was watching the game, I did see someone in a crowd shot wearing a Duke Sucks T-shirt. I think it may have been the same fellow. Why would anyone wear a Duke t-shirt to a UNC/Kentucky game unless you wanted to get beaten up by both sets of fans? If you owned a Duke Sucks shirt, there is no better time to wear it to a game. Everyone in the audience would love you.

robed deity
12-29-2018, 06:17 PM
Bobby's Sun Devils go down to Princeton. Yikes.

JasonEvans
12-29-2018, 09:45 PM
Bobby's Sun Devils go down to Princeton. Yikes.

No reason for alarm or concern. Coming out of the Kansas and Princeton games 1-1 was probably what everyone expected to happen ;)

UrinalCake
12-29-2018, 10:19 PM
Bobby's Sun Devils go down to Princeton. Yikes.

Happens to us all the time - a team gets up and plays great to upset us, then has a letdown in their next game. Though to be fair, Princeton is no pushover as we saw for about 25 minutes when we played them.

duke74
12-30-2018, 08:36 AM
St. John’s fell to Seton Hall last night. Our (I’m a prof there now) first loss of the season (now 12-1). Questionable call near the end of the game (disallowing a steal on an inbounds play) allowed the Pirates to win the game on a last second three, but SJ missed the front end of a couple of 1 and 1s, and also let a lead slip away.

Hopefully a learning experience for the Johnnies. I think SJ will give us a game in Cameron.

DavidBenAkiva
01-03-2019, 11:39 AM
Usually, I don't pay much attention to the transfer situation of mid-major schools, but this one grabbed my attention. Carte'are Gorden, a 6'9" freshman PF from Saint Louis announced today that he is going to transfer. Gordon was in the top 75 in his recruiting class. It was a pretty big deal for the hometown Billikens to snag the local product. Gordon was averaging about 9 points, 4 rebounds, and an assist, steal, and block-and-a-half per game in 24.5 minutes of action, including starting 9 games. He has hit 2 of 5 3-point attempts as well, although just 50% of his free throws. His defensive stats are really good for a freshman in the A10.

We know that Duke's current frontcourt is going to be completely gone by the time fall 2020 rolls around. Bolden, DeLaurier, White, Robinson, and Vernon Carey will all be graduated and/or off to the NBA. If Duke snags Isaiah Stewart, he will most certainly be another one-and-done, too. Gordon seems like just the kind of player that Duke should target, if his academics and fit with the team works, of course. He's bouncy, can block shots, make a jumper, and looking for a higher profile. Even as Duke offers kids from the Class of 2020, I'm thinking a transfer this summer or a grad transfer in 2020 is going to happen to help fill out the frontcourt depth and add experience.

JasonEvans
01-03-2019, 12:39 PM
Usually, I don't pay much attention to the transfer situation of mid-major schools, but this one grabbed my attention. Carte'are Gorden, a 6'9" freshman PF from Saint Louis announced today that he is going to transfer. Gordon was in the top 75 in his recruiting class. It was a pretty big deal for the hometown Billikens to snag the local product. Gordon was averaging about 9 points, 4 rebounds, and an assist, steal, and block-and-a-half per game in 24.5 minutes of action, including starting 9 games. He has hit 2 of 5 3-point attempts as well, although just 50% of his free throws. His defensive stats are really good for a freshman in the A10.

We know that Duke's current frontcourt is going to be completely gone by the time fall 2020 rolls around. Bolden, DeLaurier, White, Robinson, and Vernon Carey will all be graduated and/or off to the NBA. If Duke snags Isaiah Stewart, he will most certainly be another one-and-done, too. Gordon seems like just the kind of player that Duke should target, if his academics and fit with the team works, of course. He's bouncy, can block shots, make a jumper, and looking for a higher profile. Even as Duke offers kids from the Class of 2020, I'm thinking a transfer this summer or a grad transfer in 2020 is going to happen to help fill out the frontcourt depth and add experience.

If he is leaving school now, then he is looking to be eligible in January of next year, when Duke projects to have a very crowded front-court.

He looks like a midwest/Big Ten kinda kid. Mizzu, Kansas, Marquette, Illinois, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame were some of the most prominent schools that made offers when he was in high school. Kansas has been big in the transfer market in recent years. If he is looking for a higher profile, that could be a likely landing spot.

DavidBenAkiva
01-03-2019, 01:29 PM
If he is leaving school now, then he is looking to be eligible in January of next year, when Duke projects to have a very crowded front-court.

He looks like a midwest/Big Ten kinda kid. Mizzu, Kansas, Marquette, Illinois, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame were some of the most prominent schools that made offers when he was in high school. Kansas has been big in the transfer market in recent years. If he is looking for a higher profile, that could be a likely landing spot.

The interest from Duke is entirely wild speculation on my behalf. He was just someone that I thought might be a fit based on what we know of the roster situation. In chatting with a few SLU fans on reddit, they are wondering if Gordon has the right work ethic or interest in being in college.

Kansas or Mizzou might be a fit, although both seem to have incumbent players at the same position. For Mizzou, it is Jeremiah Tilmon. For Kansas, the whole Silvio DeSousa situation, not to mention Mitch Lightfoot and possibly one or both Lawson brothers.

JasonEvans
01-03-2019, 04:47 PM
Looks like the Bol Bol era is over at Oregon (https://deadspin.com/report-bol-bol-broken-1831468575)almost before it even began. The 7-2 freshmen has a stress fracture in his foot and it appears he will not play at all this season. He's been out since mid-December with foot pain. Dude was averaging better than 21 ppg and close to 10 rpg when he got hurt. What a pity for the already sucky Pac 12. This was the one reason (other than your love of Bobby) to pay any attention to that imposter of a major conference.

ChillinDuke
01-03-2019, 04:51 PM
Looks like the Bol Bol era is over at Oregon (https://deadspin.com/report-bol-bol-broken-1831468575)almost before it even began. The 7-2 freshmen has a stress fracture in his foot and it appears he will not play at all this season. He's been out since mid-December with foot pain. Dude was averaging better than 21 ppg and close to 10 rpg when he got hurt. What a pity for the already sucky Pac 12. This was the one reason (other than your love of Bobby) to pay any attention to that imposter of a major conference.

Jason, do you like the Pac 12? Just wondering.

:rolleyes:

- Chillin

NSDukeFan
01-03-2019, 06:36 PM
Looks like the Bol Bol era is over at Oregon (https://deadspin.com/report-bol-bol-broken-1831468575)almost before it even began. The 7-2 freshmen has a stress fracture in his foot and it appears he will not play at all this season. He's been out since mid-December with foot pain. Dude was averaging better than 21 ppg and close to 10 rpg when he got hurt. What a pity for the already sucky Pac 12. This was the one reason (other than your love of Bobby) to pay any attention to that imposter of a major conference.

Are you talking about the conference of champions? 🤔


Isn’t that what Bill Walton calls it?

Tripping William
01-04-2019, 11:36 AM
Seems Karl Hess continues to have, shall we say, "issues." This time (https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/01/04/scott-padgett-sanford-referee-altercation-karl-hess-ncaa-basketball-0?utm_campaign=sportsillustrated&xid=socialflow_facebook_si&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR0PBfvPPed362F5s7dUXaF1jZ2eHXVpRVfzPUGNg DE237B_CtSbzRQFuH8)he seems to want a piece of Scott Padgett (all 6'9" 280 lbs. of him).

Bob Green
01-05-2019, 03:11 PM
Alabama 77, Kentucky 75

Alabama tried their best to give the game away at the end but they managed to hold on for the win.

fisheyes
01-05-2019, 03:14 PM
Watching St. John's v Georgetown. Old school. St. John's is for real. Going into OT now in DC.
I must admit, I am a bit concerned about the potential symmetry of St. John's coming into Cameron in February as the last non-conference team to beat us at home.
Go Duke!

Ggallagher
01-05-2019, 03:22 PM
Alabama 77, Kentucky 75

Alabama tried their best to give the game away at the end but they managed to hold on for the win.

Yep, that was a pretty good effort by Alabama to give the game away at the end. I thought it was kind of nice though that the Kentucky fans got to see numerous shots of John Pelphrey on the Alabama bench - just in case they'd forgotten about another Kentucky game he played in :)

Rich
01-05-2019, 04:45 PM
Watching St. John's v Georgetown. Old school.

Those Georgetown uniforms and sneakers are anything but!

duke74
01-05-2019, 06:08 PM
Watching St. John's v Georgetown. Old school. St. John's is for real. Going into OT now in DC.
I must admit, I am a bit concerned about the potential symmetry of St. John's coming into Cameron in February as the last non-conference team to beat us at home.
Go Duke!

I’ve been posting about this for a few weeks. This team is for real. Strong guard play, for one thing.

Chris making serious use of the transfer/JUCO channel.

I’ve also noted that I am a prof and business division head here at SJ. The buzz on campus has not been at this level for years.

BTW, I was also thinking old school Big East.

SavDukeGrad
01-05-2019, 06:26 PM
I had forgotten that Shayok had transferred from Virginia.

But I had no idea that he was such an offensive weapon for Iowa State and was leading the Big 12 in scoring!

OldPhiKap
01-05-2019, 06:36 PM
I had forgotten that Shayok had transferred from Virginia.

But I had no idea that he was such an offensive weapon for Iowa State and was leading the Big 12 in scoring!

Y’know what they say — the only guy who can keep Marial Shayok under 19 PPG is Tony Bennett.



(J/k)

Tripping William
01-05-2019, 07:09 PM
Y’know what they say — the only guy who can keep Marial Shayok under 19 PPG is Tony Bennett.



(J/k)

Thank you for reminding me of my love/hate relationship with Dan Dakich. Seriously.

devildeac
01-05-2019, 10:21 PM
Wait, Green Bay beat Cleveland State today? I thought swofford had them on probation:confused:.

:mad::mad:

Wander
01-06-2019, 01:02 AM
I doubt this will actually happen, but you can make a case right now that the Pac-12 deserves ZERO at-large bids to the NCAA tournament. The highest kenpom team is Oregon at 43, well below the number that essentially guarantees an at-large bid. Next closest is 55.

DUKIE V(A)
01-06-2019, 07:40 AM
Yep, that was a pretty good effort by Alabama to give the game away at the end. I thought it was kind of nice though that the Kentucky fans got to see numerous shots of John Pelphrey on the Alabama bench - just in case they'd forgotten about another Kentucky game he played in :)

Yes! Let’s all take a moment to reflect on John Pelphrey’s final game in a Wildcat uniform. 😊

HereBeforeCoachK
01-06-2019, 08:42 AM
Yes! Let’s all take a moment to reflect on John Pelphrey’s final game in a Wildcat uniform. ��

What John Pelphry has never learned is that losing that game is the only reason anyone outside of Kentucky even knows his name. If UK won that game, the great Duke dynasty that they almost beat - wouldn't have been the great Duke dynasty. Just been another exciting regional final where the upset winner got blitzed in the Final Four.

budwom
01-06-2019, 08:54 AM
Juggernaut Nevada took their undefeated prospects into The Pit and got abused by 27 points, ouch. KenPom has New Mexico as the #145 team...

scottdude8
01-06-2019, 05:07 PM
The Nevada loss is welcome news as it all but ensures they aren’t going to be interfering with our seeding now.

Also, don’t look now but Michigan is looking dominant again against Indiana, up 16 in the first half.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-06-2019, 05:59 PM
The Nevada loss is welcome news as it all but ensures they aren’t going to be interfering with our seeding now.

Also, don’t look now but Michigan is looking dominant again against Indiana, up 16 in the first half.

Michigan might well be the top team so far.....they are for real. But I like our chances to be better later on....

Channing
01-06-2019, 07:36 PM
Looks like Azubuike is done for the season at KU. Tough break for the kid and big blow to KU's chances moving forward:

8928

richardjackson199
01-06-2019, 08:09 PM
Looks like Azubuike is done for the season at KU. Tough break for the kid and big blow to KU's chances moving forward:

8928

Yep this is a big deal as it is a blow to a team many considered as one of the favorites to win it all. They still could, but this hurts. I wish him the best for a full recovery. Injuries suck.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25700679/udoka-azubuike-kansas-jayhawks-needs-season-ending-surgery-repair-torn-hand-ligament

scottdude8
01-06-2019, 08:21 PM
Wow. That is HUGE. After seeing how they played against Iowa State without him I’d now say there’s a legit chance the streak of Big 12 championships is in jeopardy.

Channing
01-06-2019, 08:23 PM
I guess the next question for Bill Self is whether he throws Silvio De Sousa back out there to try and replace UA's presence. Time will tell.

richardjackson199
01-06-2019, 08:28 PM
I guess the next question for Bill Self is whether he throws Silvio De Sousa back out there to try and replace UA's presence. Time will tell.

With Azubuike hurt, De Sousa should demand more money to play.

JasonEvans
01-07-2019, 09:38 AM
I guess the next question for Bill Self is whether he throws Silvio De Sousa back out there to try and replace UA's presence. Time will tell.

If KU plays De Sousa at this point and he is found to be ineligible, the NCAA would really be upset and might slap Kansas with some kind of probation/postseason ban in addition to making them forfeit all games in which De Sousa played. The school could not claim "we didn't know." They are obviously fully aware of questions regarding his eligibility. I just don't see Kansas and Self taking that kind of a risk.

And it ain't like Kansas lost to Iowa State because they got mauled inside with Az sitting out... Kansas outrebounded the Cyclones by 15 and Iowa State was not just getting to the rim at will. Iowa State won that game by raining threes all over Kansas... a problem neither Az nor De Sousa would have cured.

-Jason "also worth noting that even when he got decent minutes last year when Az was hurt, De Sousa didn't exactly light the world on fire... a lot to risk on a guy who ain't all that great" Evans

UrinalCake
01-07-2019, 12:19 PM
Wow. That is HUGE. After seeing how they played against Iowa State without him I’d now say there’s a legit chance the streak of Big 12 championships is in jeopardy.

I thought they’ve already been playing most of the season without him? Definitely a tough break, they’ve proven they can play small as he always seems to be in foul trouble even when healthy, but he’s a unique player and not many opponents have an answer for him. I was certainly wondering how we would try to match up with him. With Azubuike and Bol Bol out, there really aren’t that many great centers around.

rasputin
01-07-2019, 12:26 PM
If KU plays De Sousa at this point and he is found to be ineligible, the NCAA would really be upset and might slap Kansas with some kind of probation/postseason ban in addition to making them forfeit all games in which De Sousa played. The school could not claim "we didn't know." They are obviously fully aware of questions regarding his eligibility. I just don't see Kansas and Self taking that kind of a risk.

And it ain't like Kansas lost to Iowa State because they got mauled inside with Az sitting out... Kansas outrebounded the Cyclones by 15 and Iowa State was not just getting to the rim at will. Iowa State won that game by raining threes all over Kansas... a problem neither Az nor De Sousa would have cured.

-Jason "also worth noting that even when he got decent minutes last year when Az was hurt, De Sousa didn't exactly light the world on fire... a lot to risk on a guy who ain't all that great" Evans

The NCAA could punish Kansas by requiring them to travel more than the length of my driveway to get to all of their NCAA Tournament games.

JasonEvans
01-07-2019, 02:51 PM
The NCAA could punish Kansas by requiring them to travel more than the length of my driveway to get to all of their NCAA Tournament games.

Good one! Is your driveway particularly long?

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/625/23355346485_aae4be7355_b.jpg

Rich
01-07-2019, 10:23 PM
Good one! Is your driveway particularly long?

I prefer this one

8934

gam7
01-10-2019, 11:33 PM
Take note, Kenpom. Foul when up 3 with 2 seconds left failed in a pretty spectacular way tonight - Oregon was up 13 with 3:45 remaining. UCLA fought back. Oregon was up 3 and fouled UCLA with 2 seconds left. Hands made the first, missed the second on purpose. UCLA gets rebound and lays it in with 0.7 on clock, and GETS FOULED. UCLA misses free throw, sending game to OT. UCLA wins 87-84 in OT.

I'm not a Kenpom subscriber currently but I'd imagine this will be one of the most unlikely wins of season.

pfrduke
01-11-2019, 12:39 AM
Take note, Kenpom. Foul when up 3 with 2 seconds left failed in a pretty spectacular way tonight - Oregon was up 13 with 3:45 remaining. UCLA fought back. Oregon was up 3 and fouled UCLA with 2 seconds left. Hands made the first, missed the second on purpose. UCLA gets rebound and lays it in with 0.7 on clock, and GETS FOULED. UCLA misses free throw, sending game to OT. UCLA wins 87-84 in OT.

I'm not a Kenpom subscriber currently but I'd imagine this will be one of the most unlikely wins of season.

3rd most unlikely so far. Oregon was a 99.8% favorite with a 72-59 lead and under 3 to play. #2 was Charlotte (down 52-28 to Oklahoma State with 12:30 to play). #1 was last night, with Marquette down 85-80 with 2 seconds left, before forcing and winning in overtime.

sagegrouse
01-11-2019, 10:13 AM
3rd most unlikely so far. Oregon was a 99.8% favorite with a 72-59 lead and under 3 to play. #2 was Charlotte (down 52-28 to Oklahoma State with 12:30 to play). #1 was last night, with Marquette down 85-80 with 2 seconds left, before forcing and winning in overtime.

Marquette scored with 0.8 seconds left to make the score 82-85 in favor of Creighton. Creighton has the ball out of bounds. Marquette wins the game.

Analysis: Creighton tried and whiffed on a full-court in-bounds pass. Marquette gets the ball under its basket, and Sam Hauser hits a three-point shot at the buzzer. Semi-serious suggestion: Creighton should give the ball to a Marquette player standing under his basket. Probably not enough time for a pass and a shot from three.

Nugget
01-11-2019, 12:45 PM
Marquette scored with 0.8 seconds left to make the score 82-85 in favor of Creighton. Creighton has the ball out of bounds. Marquette wins the game.

Analysis: Creighton tried and whiffed on a full-court in-bounds pass. Marquette gets the ball under its basket, and Sam Hauser hits a three-point shot at the buzzer. Semi-serious suggestion: Creighton should give the ball to a Marquette player standing under his basket. Probably not enough time for a pass and a shot from three.

Watching that Marquette-Creighton game was fantastic -- lots of back and forth offense, and Howard was just bananas from 3.

JasonEvans
01-11-2019, 10:35 PM
Semi-serious suggestion: Creighton should give the ball to a Marquette player standing under his basket. Probably not enough time for a pass and a shot from three.

I've been saying for years that when you are up 3 with less than a second or two to go, just slowly roll the ball out there inside the three point line. Let the opposing team jump on it like a live hand grenade and watch the time expire.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-12-2019, 06:49 AM
Watching that Marquette-Creighton game was fantastic -- lots of back and forth offense, and Howard was just bananas from 3.

The teams combined for 40....yes, 40 points in overtime. That's eight points per minute. Va Tech and Ga Tech combined for 101 points in 40 minutes....about 2.5 points per minute.

scottdude8
01-13-2019, 08:17 PM
Don’t look now, but Michigan may have gotten even more dangerous with the way Jon Teske is turning into Kevin Pittsnoggle... the 7-1 Teske is just nailing 3s and has 17 points in the first half against a solid, albeit underachieving, Northwestern team. 50-28 at the half.

When Michigan shoots the 3 from every position on the floor like they are tonight it’s going to be hard for anyone to beat them.

Channing
01-14-2019, 09:31 AM
I guess the next question for Bill Self is whether he throws Silvio De Sousa back out there to try and replace UA's presence. Time will tell.

https://theathletic.com/765406/2019/01/14/hoop-thoughts-exclusive-kansas-will-ask-ncaa-to-reinstate-silvio-de-sousa/

And there you have it. KU thinks SDS should be reinstates.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-14-2019, 09:38 AM
Don’t look now, but Michigan may have gotten even more dangerous with the way Jon Teske is turning into Kevin Pittsnoggle... the 7-1 Teske is just nailing 3s and has 17 points in the first half against a solid, albeit underachieving, Northwestern team. 50-28 at the half.

When Michigan shoots the 3 from every position on the floor like they are tonight it’s going to be hard for anyone to beat them.

If I were voting in the rankings, I'd have them 1 at the moment....though I think this is a match up that favors Duke....head to head.

scottdude8
01-14-2019, 10:27 AM
If I were voting in the rankings, I'd have them 1 at the moment...though I think this is a match up that favors Duke...head to head.

It's funny you should mention that, because as we were watching the game last night my wife went, "How is Michigan not No. 1? Oh wait, Duke is Duke." Which definitely plays a part in it, but the fact that Duke has a few more "top-tier" wins than Michigan probably helps to outweigh the one loss in voters minds. FWIW, UVA is still No. 1 in the only rankings that really end up mattering, the NET, followed by Duke and then Michigan. It'd be so helpful if the NCAA would provide some details regarding how the NET is really calculated to figure out why that's the case exactly, but I guess we have to be satisfied with small steps forward, haha.

We chatted a bit about a potential Duke/Michigan matchup in another thread (https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?42971-A-happy-coincidence-some-nice-Duke-insight-from-my-favorite-Michigan-fansite), and I definitely agree that as it stands the matchup favors Duke... in fact, if you had to construct a team to beat Michigan's D, it'd probably look pretty darn similar to Duke. However, one of the newer storylines developing on the Michigan side of things is the fact that Teske is now shooting threes at almost a 30% clip (and that number is weighed down by some early season struggles when he was gaining confidence in that shot), and Zavier Simpson, a guy who has at best an iffy jumper, has turned things around and is now shooting 33% from three (helped significantly by his performance last night). Meanwhile, Jordan Poole and Isaiah Livers (our sixth man who is essentially playing as a sixth starter, as he can play basically any position 3-through-5) are shooting above 45% from 3, Iggy is shooting 38%, and the rest of our regular rotation is all shooting well above 30%. That type of shooting can negate any matchup problem... and it would be a very tall task to beat this Michigan team on a hot night where they shoot 40-50% from deep.

TL;DR: Duke matches up very well against Michigan from an athletic perspective and is probably ideally constructed to give their fantastic D problems. That said, I would want to avoid Michigan for as long as possible (and potentially give me a dream Final Four matchup, haha) the way that the team's shooting has developed from a potential weakness into a definite strength.

P.S. I think I successfully avoided the dual "our/we" problem in this post. Self Sporks! Haha.

devildeac
01-19-2019, 02:13 PM
KU at WVA could be interesting today, especially if KU shoots 30-40 more FT than the home team. :rolleyes:

HereBeforeCoachK
01-19-2019, 02:24 PM
It's funny you should mention that, because as we were watching the game last night my wife went, "How is Michigan not No. 1? Oh wait, Duke is Duke." Which definitely plays a part in it, but the fact that Duke has a few more "top-tier" wins than Michigan probably helps to outweigh the one loss in voters minds. FWIW, UVA is still No. 1 in the only rankings that really end up mattering, the NET, followed by Duke and then Michigan. It'd be so helpful if the NCAA would provide some details regarding how the NET is really calculated to figure out why that's the case exactly, but I guess we have to be satisfied with small steps forward, haha.

P.S. I think I successfully avoided the dual "our/we" problem in this post. Self Sporks! Haha.

Michigan had maybe their worst game today in the last 34....I think they're 32-2 in that time, about the last half of last year and first half of this year. That's not bad. They'll drop a little, but they've been very consistently excellent for in effect a full season.

scottdude8
01-19-2019, 02:58 PM
Michigan had maybe their worst game today in the last 34...I think they're 32-2 in that time, about the last half of last year and first half of this year. That's not bad. They'll drop a little, but they've been very consistently excellent for in effect a full season.

Yeah, this is one of those games where everything went wrong and Michigan still had a shot to win, which counterintuitively could be seen as a positive for the team’s overall prospects. Iggy didn’t score a point, we turned it over about twice as much as we usually do, couldn’t hit a three, were playing at 11 am local time, and playing on the road in a building where we’ve only ever one 2 (TWO!) games... and yet we still could’ve won the game if a couple threes fall and a couple iffy home foul calls go our way. Sucks to fall behind MSU in the B1G race but the loss isn’t one that changes the team’s outlook unless the issues become a pattern.

sagegrouse
01-19-2019, 03:15 PM
Yeah, this is one of those games where everything went wrong and Michigan still had a shot to win, which counterintuitively could be seen as a positive for the team’s overall prospects. Iggy didn’t score a point, we turned it over about twice as much as we usually do, couldn’t hit a three, were playing at 11 am local time, and playing on the road in a building where we’ve only ever one 2 (TWO!) games... and yet we still could’ve won the game if a couple threes fall and a couple iffy home foul calls go our way. Sucks to fall behind MSU in the B1G race but the loss isn’t one that changes the team’s outlook unless the issues become a pattern.

Hah! The intentional foul call when Barzdeikis grabbed Wisconsin's Happ (49 percent FT shooter) with 45 seconds left was unusual.. Happ was nowhere near the ball. Usually such calls are only made for fouling a player with the ball headed for an easy basket. Beilein almost had a stroke in disputing the call with the referee.

richardjackson199
01-19-2019, 03:21 PM
Hah! The intentional foul call when Barzdeikis grabbed Wisconsin's Happ (49 percent FT shooter) with 45 seconds left was unusual.. Happ was nowhere near the ball. Usually such calls are only made for fouling a player with the ball headed for an easy basket. Beilein almost had a stroke in disputing the call with the referee.

That was such an awful call. I hate referee stepping in and making a call like that away from the ball that completely decided the game. No player gained an advantage. Michigan was just trying to foul Happ, a bad foul shooter, and got there a little late. Standard end of game strategy to foul a bad free throw shooter. Perfect time to swallow your whistle and let the players decide the game. 3 point game at that point was very interesting. Making it 4 point game and giving ball back to Wiscy was basically game over. Wiscy probably wins anyway, but we'll never know.

Of course I'm glad Michigan lost as that helps Duke a little. But I never like refs dramatically impacting a game with bad calls.

Ian
01-19-2019, 03:31 PM
That was such an awful call. I hate referee stepping in and making a call like that away from the ball that completely decided the game. No player gained an advantage. Michigan was just trying to foul Happ, a bad foul shooter, and got there a little late. Standard end of game strategy to foul a bad free throw shooter. Perfect time to swallow your whistle and let the players decide the game. 3 point game at that point was very interesting. Making it 4 point game and giving ball back to Wiscy was basically game over. Wiscy probably wins anyway, but we'll never know.

Of course I'm glad Michigan lost as that helps Duke a little. But I never like refs dramatically impacting a game with bad calls.

On the other hand, I've never been a fan of foulfests at the end of games. I think you should be making a play for the ball, otherwise if you're fouling for the sake of fouling and it should be penalized to reduce the frequency of those plays.

75Crazie
01-19-2019, 03:37 PM
On the other hand, I've never been a fan of foulfests at the end of games. I think you should be making a play for the ball, otherwise if you're fouling for the sake of fouling and it should be penalized to reduce the frequency of those plays.
I could not possibly agree more with you. I would make that call each and every time. The one fatal flaw of the game of basketball is the standard policy of deliberately committing a violation of the rules in order to try to gain an advantage, and anything that penalizes that approach is OK in my book.

scottdude8
01-19-2019, 03:59 PM
And Kansas’ luck runs out! For those worried about Syracuse being a bad loss, losing to a below .500 WVU team, even on the road, is arguably worse.

And re: Michigan, the iffy calls weren’t necessarily that one at the end... but regarding that, I think Beilein was more mad that the foul WASNT called a second earlier when Iggy fouled Happ when he did have the ball.

devildeac
01-19-2019, 04:05 PM
And Kansas’ luck runs out! For those worried about Syracuse being a bad loss, losing to a below .500 WVU team, even on the road, is arguably worse.

And re: Michigan, the iffy calls weren’t necessarily that one at the end... but regarding that, I think Beilein was more mad that the foul WASNT called a second earlier when Iggy fouled Happ when he did have the ball.

Yea, we've seen some stuff like that called/not called by some crappy acc refs recently when we were trying to foul the guy with the ball late in the game and it was ignored but an intentional/flagrant was called off-the-ball giving them (can't remember which team) two shots, the ball and basically, the ball game.

richardjackson199
01-19-2019, 04:08 PM
Yea, we've seen some I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. like that called/not called by some crappy acc refs recently when we were trying to foul the guy with the ball late in the game and it was ignored but an intentional/flagrant was called off-the-ball giving them (can't remember which team) two shots, the ball and basically, the ball game.

At BC last year call on Duval.

Ian
01-19-2019, 04:10 PM
That was such an awful call. I hate referee stepping in and making a call like that away from the ball that completely decided the game. No player gained an advantage. Michigan was just trying to foul Happ, a bad foul shooter, and got there a little late. Standard end of game strategy to foul a bad free throw shooter. Perfect time to swallow your whistle and let the players decide the game. 3 point game at that point was very interesting. Making it 4 point game and giving ball back to Wiscy was basically game over. Wiscy probably wins anyway, but we'll never know.

Of course I'm glad Michigan lost as that helps Duke a little. But I never like refs dramatically impacting a game with bad calls.

And if you want to complain about not letting the players decide, the traveling call at the end of the Ala-Tenn game is much worse because before the call that game was anybody's game, the call basically won the game for Tenn and it was a very iffy call, it might have been technically a travel, but refs don't a call on similar plays more than 5% of the time

richardjackson199
01-19-2019, 04:12 PM
And if you want to complain about not letting the players decide, the traveling call at the end of the Ala-Tenn game is much worse because before the call that game was anybody's game, the call basically won the game for Tenn and it was a very iffy call, it might have been technically a travel, but refs don't a call on similar plays more than 5% of the time

Agreed. Another awful call. I think he was still dribbling and did not travel before starting his move. But you're going to make that call right there for that? When a player has a chance to win the game on a last second shot and knock off the new #1 team in the country on their home floor. Awful call. He caught the ball and started dribbling - no advantage gained, and IMO no obvious travel. Let the players decide unless there is clearly a violation that needs to be called.

devildeac
01-19-2019, 04:19 PM
At BC last year call on Duval.

Thanks!

:mad:

scottdude8
01-23-2019, 09:08 PM
The refs are trying to singlehandedly save Tennessee from an upset... they completely blew that hook and hold crap.

UrinalCake
01-23-2019, 09:47 PM
Gotta feel for Vandy. All the excitement of their big recruiting class coming in, and then they lose Garland for the season. A number of close losses, and then a chance at pulling a huge upset but they get hosed by several calls down the stretch - not just the "hook and hold" technical but also numerous drives by TN in which they were awarded and-1's but it looked like the defender was straight up.

Williams was amazing, 23-23 from the free throw line (a separate question is how he got to the line that many times, but to knock them all down was clutch). TN does look beatable, Vandy could get inside the lane on them pretty easily.

Ggallagher
01-23-2019, 10:01 PM
The refs are trying to singlehandedly save Tennessee from an upset... they completely blew that hook and hold crap.

No kidding. That was just not a good call. Of course Vanderbilt did a pretty good job of preventing the upset, too. They had some really boneheaded plays at the end of the game.
That was some very nice free throw shooting though. Wish we could do that.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-23-2019, 10:24 PM
Gotta feel for Vandy - a chance at pulling a huge upset but they get hosed by several calls down the stretch - not just the "hook and hold" technical but also numerous drives by TN in which they were awarded and-1's but it looked like the defender was straight up.

Williams was amazing, 23-23 from the free throw line (a separate question is how he got to the line that many times, but to knock them all down was clutch). TN does look beatable, Vandy could get inside the lane on them pretty easily.

"......Tennessee gets all the calls......"

JetpackJesus
01-24-2019, 12:35 AM
I'm watching the end of OT in the Tennessee game on a delay because time zones. Is the "hook and hold" the foul at the end of OT? Because that should've been a Flagrant 1 or 2 on the Tennessee player.

tbyers11
01-24-2019, 07:23 AM
I'm watching the end of OT in the Tennessee game on a delay because time zones. Is the "hook and hold" the foul at the end of OT? Because that should've been a Flagrant 1 or 2 on the Tennessee player.

No, the "hook and hold" or lack thereof happened with about 1:20 left in regulation when Vandy was up 76-70. Tennessee hit both FTs and scored immediately off the inbounds and was now down only 76-74.

Agree that the arm fling by the Tennessee player should have been an F1 after the common foul against the Vandy player. No clue how that was just "getting tangled up".

Thankfully, the refs lack of common sense and logic that added 1.3 seconds to the 2.0 left on the clock, instead of taking it away, didn't directly lead to Tennessee's victory.

Vandy made plenty of mistakes and bad decisions at the end of regulation and OT, but it was definitely not a good look for the refs in terms of incorrect decisions affecting the outcome of a game

UrinalCake
01-24-2019, 07:36 AM
I'm watching the end of OT in the Tennessee game on a delay because time zones. Is the "hook and hold" the foul at the end of OT? Because that should've been a Flagrant 1 or 2 on the Tennessee player.

As tbyers said the play was in regulation. Looked to me like two big men going up for a rebound. They did have their arms locked, but I couldn’t see one player using it more than the other. If you want to call a foul that’s fine, but to add a F1 on top? Gave TN a four point play, cutting a 6 point deficit to 2, in addition to several minutes of stoppage time while they reviewed everything which killed Vandy’s momentum. Believe me, if this had happened to us these boards would be overflowing with fans discussing how badly we had gotten hosed.

OldPhiKap
01-24-2019, 07:44 AM
The refs may have helped Tennessee, but the Vols at the end helped them more.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-24-2019, 07:49 AM
The refs may have helped Tennessee, but the Vols at the end helped them more.

by that standard, maybe we don't have much of a legit gripe with Miami 2015 FB

HaveFunExpectToWin
01-24-2019, 10:12 AM
"...Tennessee gets all the calls..."

It’s really more “Vandy gets none of the calls...”.

We’ve been jobbed so many times by bad calls. I understand that a team needs to be able to overcome bad calls, but repeatedly being on the losing end of a call adds up. It’s not easy to be a Vandy fan.

Jeff Green walked.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-24-2019, 10:20 AM
It’s really more “Vandy gets none of the calls...”.

We’ve been jobbed so many times by bad calls. I understand that a team needs to be able to overcome bad calls, but repeatedly being on the losing end of a call adds up. It’s not easy to be a Vandy fan.

Jeff Green walked.

As Duke fans, we feel ya.....we are that way in football, and it took K a while to dig us out of that in basketball. I've always thought both the SEC and the Big 12 officials protect the big name programs.....in FB and BB.

uh_no
01-24-2019, 08:59 PM
iowa got outscored 17-40 in the last 15 minutes of tonights game against michigan state.needless to say, they did not win.

OldPhiKap
01-24-2019, 10:57 PM
by that standard, maybe we don't have much of a legit gripe with Miami 2015 FB

I do not think you can compare a single play with bad calls in our football game, to three minutes of assenine turnovers and boots by Vandy at the end of regulation.

But if your argument is that both Duke in football and Vandy in basketball contributed to the bad results by failing to take care of their own business, then yes — I would absolutely say that is the case.

devildeac
01-24-2019, 11:14 PM
I do not think you can compare a single play with bad calls in our football game, to three minutes of assenine turnovers and boots by Vandy at the end of regulation.

But if your argument is that both Duke in football and Vandy in basketball contributed to the bad results by failing to take care of their own business, then yes — I would absolutely say that is the case.

I can't post the photo. We made the tackle. The knee was down.


https://a2.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2017%2F0928%2Fr266269_1296x729_16 %2D9.jpg

Yea, still too soon. :mad:

HereBeforeCoachK
01-24-2019, 11:23 PM
I do not think you can compare a single play with bad calls in our football game, to three minutes of assenine turnovers and boots by Vandy at the end of regulation.

But if your argument is that both Duke in football and Vandy in basketball contributed to the bad results by failing to take care of their own business, then yes — I would absolutely say that is the case.

You are making a circular argument.....winning teams don't always take care of business either....sometimes the ONLY difference in the game IS the officiating. The idea of perfection the rest of the game is simply not tenable.

scottdude8
01-25-2019, 07:09 PM
Rumors of Michigan’s demise after back to back lackluster games may have been exaggerated... 22-4 on the road against Indiana 12 minutes in. Indiana didn’t make a FG for the first 10 minutes.

OldPhiKap
01-25-2019, 07:34 PM
I can't post the photo. We made the tackle. The knee was down.


https://a2.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2017%2F0928%2Fr266269_1296x729_16 %2D9.jpg

Yea, still too soon. :mad:

I meant that we trailed the whole game, and were lucky to take the lead late. And at bottom, someone could have just put a runner on his I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. and it would not be an argument.

But to be clear, I am disagreeing with the argument posed. The two circumstances are too different to equate.

OldPhiKap
01-25-2019, 07:37 PM
You are making a circular argument....winning teams don't always take care of business either...sometimes the ONLY difference in the game IS the officiating. The idea of perfection the rest of the game is simply not tenable.

Then you have just eliminated the only way I can see where your comparison makes sense. I agree that my attempt to tie it together was attenuated.

devildeac
01-25-2019, 07:38 PM
I meant that we trailed the whole game, and were lucky to take the lead late. And at bottom, someone could have just put a runner on his I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. and it would not be an argument.

But to be clear, I am disagreeing with the argument posed. The two circumstances are too different to equate.

All good points.

MChambers
01-25-2019, 07:45 PM
Rumors of Michigan’s demise after back to back lackluster games may have been exaggerated... 22-4 on the road against Indiana 12 minutes in. Indiana didn’t make a FG for the first 10 minutes.

Yes, although Indiana has really been struggling lately.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-25-2019, 07:53 PM
Yes, although Indiana has really been struggling lately.

Yep, everyone is killing them lately....I've noticed some head scratching scores.

JasonEvans
01-26-2019, 02:50 AM
Yep, everyone is killing them lately...I've noticed some head scratching scores.

To say they are swooning would be an understatement. 6 straight losses, only one of which was at all close. They are struggling to get to 60 points in a lot of these games. Feels like the team has given up on the season.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-26-2019, 07:41 AM
Then you have just eliminated the only way I can see where your comparison makes sense. I agree that my attempt to tie it together was attenuated.

The problem with your theory is this....while Duke in the Miami FB game - and Vandy in the BB game - could have "taken care of business" earlier making the awful officiating a non factor.......you ignore the flip side, which is that Miami FB and Tenn BB both didn't take care of business, otherwise they wouldn't need the bad officiating to get them across the finish line.

IOW, all four teams left points on the court, or the field. All four teams failed to fully "take care of business." In fact, in many ways, UT and UM were worse than Vandy/Duke. So there is no excuse for nor is it even a mitigating factor in favor of your argument. What you had is four imperfect teams, and it's grossly unfair for two of those teams to be rewarded and two to be penalized, when on the merits, the results should have been the opposite. To argue otherwise is circular and, well, wrong.

UrinalCake
01-26-2019, 08:07 PM
Keeping tabs on Kansas-Kentucky. In the preseason most polls had these as the top two teams, so this matchup has lost a lot of its luster. Kentucky seems to be figuring things out though; it’s taken them a while to recover from that beat down we gave them but they’ll be a tough out by the tournament. Kansas seems to have reached its ceiling already now that Azubuike is done for the season.

scottdude8
01-27-2019, 01:52 PM
MSU down 37-19 at the half to Purdue on the road. Purdue's been double teaming Nick Ward and Cassius Winston every time they touch the ball, trying to force others to score... it hasn't worked out well so far for the Sparties.

fisheyes
01-27-2019, 02:16 PM
Watching G'Town v St. Johns . Quite the game.
Hoping the Johnnies don't bookend our home non-conference win streak.
Our guys will have a long time to prep for that game however.

Bob Green
01-27-2019, 02:20 PM
Georgetown 89, St. John's 78.

I watched the last four minutes of the game. My takeaway - St. John's was sloppy with the ball.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-27-2019, 02:50 PM
Georgetown 89, St. John's 78.

I watched the last four minutes of the game. My takeaway - St. John's was sloppy with the ball.

I see frosh McClung had monster game.....27 points

scottdude8
01-27-2019, 03:01 PM
Sparty about to fall in West Lafayette, despite Carsen Edwards being largely a non-factor in the game. Matt Haarms is doing his best Isaac Haas impersonation, and Ryan Cline is a name you haven't heard of that you probably will coming down the stretch this season... 17 points and 5-of-10 from three, with almost all of those contested, off the dribble threes. He has a bizarre looking shot where he almost always shoots leaning back with the ball behind his head, making it very difficult to contest, let alone block... but despite the unusual shot it almost always looks beautiful coming off his hands.

Said it in a different thread a while back, but I'll say it again... Purdue is a team no one is going to want to see in their bracket as a 3-6 seed.

MChambers
01-27-2019, 03:47 PM
Sparty about to fall in West Lafayette, despite Carsen Edwards being largely a non-factor in the game. Matt Haarms is doing his best Isaac Haas impersonation, and Ryan Cline is a name you haven't heard of that you probably will coming down the stretch this season... 17 points and 5-of-10 from three, with almost all of those contested, off the dribble threes. He has a bizarre looking shot where he almost always shoots leaning back with the ball behind his head, making it very difficult to contest, let alone block... but despite the unusual shot it almost always looks beautiful coming off his hands.

Said it in a different thread a while back, but I'll say it again... Purdue is a team no one is going to want to see in their bracket as a 3-6 seed.

Purdue is now #7 in both Pomeroy and T-Rank, so, yeah, definitely don’t want to see them below a #3. Cline’s shooting is kind of amazing.

scottdude8
01-27-2019, 07:46 PM
Purdue is now #7 in both Pomeroy and T-Rank, so, yeah, definitely don’t want to see them below a #3. Cline’s shooting is kind of amazing.

They’re one of the interesting cases where they weren’t ranked this week in the poll but ally he analytics had them very high... so if that trend continues it’ll be interesting to see where they end up seeded.

Nugget
01-29-2019, 01:20 PM
With the calendar about to turn over to February, most of the leagues have succeeded in back-loading their schedules with the most attractive/consequential games. So, even without considering the Duke games, we've got nearly 50 other interesting games to look forward to over the next 5 weeks:

2/2 Kansas-Texas Tech, Louisville-N. Carolina
2/5 N. Carolina-NC St., Kansas St-Kansas
2/7 ETSU-Wofford
2/9 Marquette-Villanova, Miss St.-Kentucky, Michigan-Wisconsin, Ariz St-Washington
2/10 Houston-Cincy
2/11 N. Carolina-Virginia, TCU-Kansas
2/12 Kentucky-LSU, Texas Tech-Kansas St.
2/13 Lipscomb-Liberty
2/16 Kentucky-Tennessee, Michigan-Maryland, Kansas St-Iowa St., Wofford-UNCG
2/18 Virginia Tech-Virginia
2/20 Syracuse-Louisville
2/23 Texas Tech-Kansas, Louisville-Virginia, N. Carolina-Florida St, Kentucky-Auburn
2/24 Michigan-Michigan St.
2/25 Kansas-Kansas St.
2/26 N. Carolina-Syracuse, Villanova-Marquette
3/2 Tennessee-Kentucky, Clemson-N. Carolina, Indiana-Michigan St., St Mary’s-Gonzaga, Utah St-Nevada
3/3 Maryland-Michigan
3/4 Syracuse-Virginia, TCU-Kansas St.
3/5 Tennessee-Miss. St., Oklahoma-Kansas
3/8 Penn-Yale
3/9 Virginia-Louisville, Michigan St.-Michigan, Auburn-Tennessee, Kentucky-Florida, Kansas-Baylor, Iowa St-Texas Tech, Seton Hall-Villanova, Washington-Oregon
3/10 Cincy-Houston

Rich
01-29-2019, 02:34 PM
With the calendar about to turn over to February, most of the leagues have succeeded in back-loading their schedules with the most attractive/consequential games. So, even without considering the Duke games, we've got nearly 50 other interesting games to look forward to over the next 5 weeks:

2/2 Kansas-Texas Tech, Louisville-N. Carolina
2/5 N. Carolina-NC St., Kansas St-Kansas
2/7 ETSU-Wofford
2/9 Marquette-Villanova, Miss St.-Kentucky, Michigan-Wisconsin, Ariz St-Washington
2/10 Houston-Cincy
2/11 N. Carolina-Virginia, TCU-Kansas
2/12 Kentucky-LSU, Texas Tech-Kansas St.
2/13 Lipscomb-Liberty
2/16 Kentucky-Tennessee, Michigan-Maryland, Kansas St-Iowa St., Wofford-UNCG
2/18 Virginia Tech-Virginia
2/20 Syracuse-Louisville
2/23 Texas Tech-Kansas, Louisville-Virginia, N. Carolina-Florida St, Kentucky-Auburn
2/24 Michigan-Michigan St.
2/25 Kansas-Kansas St.
2/26 N. Carolina-Syracuse, Villanova-Marquette
3/2 Tennessee-Kentucky, Clemson-N. Carolina, Indiana-Michigan St., St Mary’s-Gonzaga, Utah St-Nevada
3/3 Maryland-Michigan
3/4 Syracuse-Virginia, TCU-Kansas St.
3/5 Tennessee-Miss. St., Oklahoma-Kansas
3/8 Penn-Yale
3/9 Virginia-Louisville, Michigan St.-Michigan, Auburn-Tennessee, Kentucky-Florida, Kansas-Baylor, Iowa St-Texas Tech, Seton Hall-Villanova, Washington-Oregon
3/10 Cincy-Houston


https://youtu.be/gFtb3EtjEic?t=8

DavidBenAkiva
01-29-2019, 08:41 PM
Tennessee had another nice win on the road, 92-70 over a suddenly hot South Carolina team.

I was looking at their schedule and was a bit shocked to see that, according to Joe Lunardi and his latest Bracketology, Tennessee has only played 4 teams currently projected in the NCAA Tournament, including Kansas, Louisville, Gonzaga, and Alabama. Their schedule has been pillow soft to start the SEC schedule. They won't face another team projected into the NCAA Tournament until February 16th when they play Kentucky in Lexington, KY. That game starts a streak of 7 games with 6 against projected tournament teams to finish the regular season.

BandAlum83
01-30-2019, 02:03 PM
Kansas is now 16-5, 1-5 on the road.

At 5-3, they tied for 3rd in the conference with Texas Tech, 1/2 game behind Baylor (who has won 5 in a row) and Kansas State.

Their Net ranking has dropped to 20. They are now KenPom #15

So is this the year the streak ends for Kansas?

Truth&Justise
01-30-2019, 02:24 PM
Kansas is now 16-5, 1-5 on the road.

At 5-3, they tied for 3rd in the conference with Texas Tech, 1/2 game behind Baylor (who has won 5 in a row) and Kansas State.

Their Net ranking has dropped to 20. They are now KenPom #15

So is this the year the streak ends for Kansas?

I'm not ready to pronounce it over. Even in a relative down year for them, do you trust another team to win the conference? The other contenders are:


Baylor, who has looked steadier of late, but they're only #31 on KenPom and have some really bad losses to account for (Texas Southern, Stephen F. Austin).

Kansas St., who is #44 on KenPom, and while it split its games with Texas Tech, it still has to play Baylor and Kansas twice each.

Texas Tech, who is probably the most talented of the bunch, and is #14 on KenPom, but is recovering from a rough three-game losing streak (vs ISU, @Baylor, @KSU) and has yet to demonstrate they can beat top teams.


Which of those talented but flawed teams will win the conference? Because if none of them step up, it'll be Kansas again.

JasonEvans
01-30-2019, 02:58 PM
I fully expect the B12 to send 7 or 8 of their 10 teams to the Dance, which is phenomenal and so impressive...

I also full expect none of those teams to make it past the Sweet 16. They are a classic "lots of good teams but no great teams" league this year.

I also think the league is so likely to be bunched up with teams beating up on each other that there could easily be a 3 or 4 way tie for first when all is said and done. If Kansas is one of those teams, would the streak remain alive?

pfrduke
01-30-2019, 03:18 PM
I fully expect the B12 to send 7 or 8 of their 10 teams to the Dance, which is phenomenal and so impressive...

I also full expect none of those teams to make it past the Sweet 16. They are a classic "lots of good teams but no great teams" league this year.

I also think the league is so likely to be bunched up with teams beating up on each other that there could easily be a 3 or 4 way tie for first when all is said and done. If Kansas is one of those teams, would the streak remain alive?

2013 and 2008 they tied for first (Kansas State and Texas, respectively) so I think yes. Texas was actually the 1 seed in the Big XII tournament in 2008, but the streak still counted since KU finished in a tie for first.

Nugget
01-30-2019, 03:37 PM
I'm not ready to pronounce it over. Even in a relative down year for them, do you trust another team to win the conference? The other contenders are:


Baylor, who has looked steadier of late, but they're only #31 on KenPom and have some really bad losses to account for (Texas Southern, Stephen F. Austin).

Kansas St., who is #44 on KenPom, and while it split its games with Texas Tech, it still has to play Baylor and Kansas twice each.

Texas Tech, who is probably the most talented of the bunch, and is #14 on KenPom, but is recovering from a rough three-game losing streak (vs ISU, @Baylor, @KSU) and has yet to demonstrate they can beat top teams.


Which of those talented but flawed teams will win the conference? Because if none of them step up, it'll be Kansas again.

I would also consider Iowa St. (currently at 4-3) a contender, in part because it is done with Kansas and has a relatively favorable schedule the rest of the way (of the other contends, it has Baylor and Texas Tech at home only, with just Kansas St. on the road).

Based on the assumption that Baylor is getting it done with smoke and mirrors and will fall off soon, from among this group I would probably slightly lean towards Kansas St. as the most likely to break the KU streak, since they have a strong Senior core of the two guards Brown and Stokes plus Sr. Dean Wade (and several other experienced juniors) to rely on.

Just quickly penciling it out based on pure w-a guesses on who beats who, I'd see it likely to be:

Kansas St. 13-5 (5-2 plus losses at Texas, at Kansas and at TCU)
Kansas 12-6 (5-3 plus losses at Kansas St, at TCU and at Texas Tech)
Texas Tech 12-6 (5-3 plus losses at Kansas, at TCU and at Iowa St.)
Iowa St. 12-6 (4-3; plus losses at Kansas St., at TCU and and at Texas)

Of course, if Kansas St. does its usual choke job at home against Kansas, then the Jayhawks will win it again and the streak will never end.

Truth&Justise
01-30-2019, 03:48 PM
I would also consider Iowa St. (currently at 4-3) a contender, in part because it is done with Kansas and has a relatively favorable schedule the rest of the way (of the other contends, it has Baylor and Texas Tech at home only, with just Kansas St. on the road).

Based on the assumption that Baylor is getting it done with smoke and mirrors and will fall off soon, from among this group I would probably slightly lean towards Kansas St. as the most likely to break the KU streak, since they have a strong Senior core of the two guards Brown and Stokes plus Sr. Dean Wade (and several other experienced juniors) to rely on.

Just quickly penciling it out based on pure w-a guesses on who beats who, I'd see it likely to be:

Kansas St. 13-5 (5-2 plus losses at Texas, at Kansas and at TCU)
Kansas 12-6 (5-3 plus losses at Kansas St, at TCU and at Texas Tech)
Texas Tech 12-6 (5-3 plus losses at Kansas, at TCU and at Iowa St.)
Iowa St. 12-6 (4-3; plus losses at Kansas St., at TCU and and at Texas)

Of course, if Kansas St. does its usual choke job at home against Kansas, then the Jayhawks will win it again and the streak will never end.

Thanks, I don't follow B12 basketball super closely, so I appreciate your insight.

Kansas's regular season championship streak is very impressive for the school, a mark of remaining a contender with no real down years. On the flip side, it's a little embarrassing for the conference: even when Kansas is relatively weak, there is no one good enough to take the mantle. I know I'm not the first to make this complaint, but such a streak is probably not possible in the ACC, where there are always two or three serious national contenders.

robed deity
01-30-2019, 08:56 PM
The Indiana win is looking less and less impressive, unfortunately.

duke4ever19
01-30-2019, 09:08 PM
Bad break for the kid. He's missed some games already, but I know Sparty fans were basing some of their NCAA Tournament hopes on his potential return. It's harder to see a championship run without him.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25888262/michigan-state-spartans-guard-joshua-langford-rest-season

scottdude8
01-30-2019, 09:45 PM
Bad break for the kid. He's missed some games already, but I know Sparty fans were basing some of their NCAA Tournament hopes on his potential return. It's harder to see a championship run without him.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25888262/michigan-state-spartans-guard-joshua-langford-rest-season

Beat me to this, nice work. This is HUGE news. Despite their nice run Sparty has been in a lot of close games that they might’ve dominated with Langford... and the injury to Kyle Ahrens, his primary backup, has exacerbated it even further. By no means does this eliminate Sparty from the top tier of contenders, but I think most people assumed he’d be back at some point when they prognosticated this team forward. Without Langford this team really only has two players that can create their own offense (Winston and Ward), and both have shown a tendency to disappear at times. This makes the team much easier to defend.

MChambers
01-31-2019, 08:06 AM
Beat me to this, nice work. This is HUGE news. Despite their nice run Sparty has been in a lot of close games that they might’ve dominated with Langford... and the injury to Kyle Ahrens, his primary backup, has exacerbated it even further. By no means does this eliminate Sparty from the top tier of contenders, but I think most people assumed he’d be back at some point when they prognosticated this team forward. Without Langford this team really only has two players that can create their own offense (Winston and Ward), and both have shown a tendency to disappear at times. This makes the team much easier to defend.

Very tough break for Langford and MSU. MSU was playing well without him and still will be tough, but it's hard to see them in the top five or so teams without him.

Owen Meany
01-31-2019, 11:13 PM
14-7 Arizona vs 14-6 Arizona State 2 point game in final minute. Walton said "If Arizona wins this, it will be as monumental an upset as I've ever seen."

Going to OT. Hurley trying to get his first win ever over Zona. Jeter with 6 points and 7 rebounds.

They reviewed an out of bounds play with less than 1 second left. Walton asked incredulously "you're saying they can change that call?!" Later "if they can change that. I'll have to take your word for it."

His partner said "They've had that rule for seven years now".

He has also refered to the PAC12 as the conference of champions a few times.

wsb3
02-01-2019, 07:52 AM
14-7 Arizona vs 14-6 Arizona State 2 point game in final minute. Walton said "If Arizona wins this, it will be as monumental an upset as I've ever seen."

Going to OT. Hurley trying to get his first win ever over Zona. Jeter with 6 points and 7 rebounds.

They reviewed an out of bounds play with less than 1 second left. Walton asked incredulously "you're saying they can change that call?!" Later "if they can change that. I'll have to take your word for it."

His partner said "They've had that rule for seven years now".

He has also refered to the PAC12 as the conference of champions a few times.

Walton is so bad with his overhype. Comical...

I did watch most of the second half & OT..Glad to see Hurley break through with his first win vs Zona..

What about Hurley falling down & bouncing up immediately to argue with the ref?

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-01-2019, 07:56 AM
He has also refered to the PAC12 as the conference of champions a few times.

To be fair, I do believe that is the slogan of the Pac12. As a conference only nominally stationed on the "Atlantic Coast," I see no reason to toss rocks.

Faustus
02-01-2019, 09:50 AM
To be fair, I do believe that is the slogan of the Pac12. As a conference only nominally stationed on the "Atlantic Coast," I see no reason to toss rocks.

... not to mention a couple of conferences that can't even count the numbers of their own members correctly anymore (and when was College Station, Texas in the Southeast? Or DePaul in the (Big) East? It's not even on the east coast of Lake Michigan...))

75Crazie
02-01-2019, 12:11 PM
Big Business and Big Money trumps any geographical standards.

Ian
02-01-2019, 07:29 PM
Silvio De Sousa suspended for this season and next season.

Wonder why they aren't vacating their wins from last year.

sagegrouse
02-01-2019, 07:33 PM
Silvio De Sousa suspended for this season and next season.

Wonder why they aren't vacating their wins from last year.

Helpful information (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25902687/ncaa-rules-silvio-de-sousa-kansas-jayhawks-ineligible-2019-20-season) if you, like me, have forgotten who this joker is.

proelitedota
02-01-2019, 08:02 PM
Don't agree with the suspension for 2019-2020, but he should be retro-actively in-elligible for 2018 season.

UrinalCake
02-01-2019, 08:29 PM
Not sure if this is the right thread for this discussion, but DeSousa’s case raises an interesting general question: should a player be penalized when someone pays for his commitment, without the player knowing? One side of the argument is yes, he’s ineligible regardless of whether he knew, otherwise parents and agents would simply accept payments to steer their kids and then claim they never told their kids about it. OTOH if it’s someone not directly connected to the player, like a long lost uncle, then it’s hard to fault a kid for somebody else trying to profit off of him.

Which brings up Zion. According to testimony that was not admitted in court, an agent had a conversation with Zion’s father discussing payment for his commitment. ASSUMING this actually happened, which nobody knows for sure if it actually did, many would argue that Zion should be ineligible for the same reason as DeSousa. Again, just because an agent says the conversation happened doesn’t mean it actually did.

The other piece that I rarely hear mentioned is that Zion was raised by his mother and stepfather, and more recently after he became famous his biological father started to enter the picture. It is not clear in that testimony whether the agent claims to have spoken to his stepfather or his biological father, who could have just been trying to profit off his son. I’m really not worried about Zion’s eligibility, I think that ship has sailed, but I’m sure these questions will be brought up in the media.

Neals384
02-02-2019, 11:12 PM
Michigan State hit 8 of 22 free throws (36%) in an overtime loss to Indiana.

scottdude8
02-05-2019, 10:45 PM
I knew the MSU collapse was coming! The loss to an abysmal Illinois team tonight makes it three in a row for the team that was the trendy national title pick a few weeks ago.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-06-2019, 07:12 AM
2 court stormings last night....Illinois (Mich St) and K-State (Kansas).

Meanwhile, St Johns shook off the 30 point beat down they absorbed in Cameron and upset Marquette. On the winning drive, a Marquette player idiotically tried to draw a charge, maybe the worst fake I've ever seen......it was pathetic.

MChambers
02-06-2019, 07:31 AM
I knew the MSU collapse was coming! The loss to an abysmal Illinois team tonight makes it three in a row for the team that was the trendy national title pick a few weeks ago.

It's funny -- MSU was playing so well, even without Langford. Then they lost to Purdue (not a bad loss, on the road), learned that Langford is out for the year, and lost to Indiana, at home, and Illinois. MSU's offense seems to be get it to Winston and see what he can do. He's good, but he's not that good. At this point, MSU is looking like a 4 seed. What a change in just two weeks!

Shows why bracketology at this point is just about useless.

scottdude8
02-06-2019, 09:43 AM
It's funny -- MSU was playing so well, even without Langford. Then they lost to Purdue (not a bad loss, on the road), learned that Langford is out for the year, and lost to Indiana, at home, and Illinois. MSU's offense seems to be get it to Winston and see what he can do. He's good, but he's not that good. At this point, MSU is looking like a 4 seed. What a change in just two weeks!

Shows why bracketology at this point is just about useless.

Yup, the issue for MSU without Langford was, and now will be, that the team has no one who can “create offense” besides Winston. Ward is arguably their best player but even he relies on others to get him the ball in the post... not to mention he’s notorious for disappearing in games due to either foul trouble or frustration at not getting enough touches early. Combine that with 3 point specialist Matt McQuaid now guarding the opponent’s best player (and thus expending a ton of energy on D) and you have a team that is going to go the way of Winston. Any team that has a PG who can lock him down 1-on-1 (like both Duke and Michigan!) are in great shape against the Sparties going forward.

Truth&Justise
02-06-2019, 10:56 AM
Kansas's loses to K-State and drops to 4th in the conference. Here are the current B12 standings:



Kansas State
7-2


Baylor
6-2


Iowa State
7-3


Kansas
6-4


Texas Tech
6-4


Texas
4-5


TCU
3-5


Oklahoma
3-7


Oklahoma St
2-6


West Virginia
2-8



Until Kansas is mathematically eliminated I'll still believe they will win the conference. They probably need to lose one or two more for someone else to take it, as I don't really trust the teams ahead of them to win out. But we'll see.

JasonEvans
02-07-2019, 08:35 AM
Maryland's wonderfully talented forward Bruno Fernando (who will likely be a lottery pick this summer) absolutely, 100% pulled a Christian Laettner on the chest of a Nebraska player last night.

https://deadspin.com/marylands-bruno-fernando-stomped-on-a-nebraska-dude-1832413396

AGDukesky
02-07-2019, 09:02 AM
Kansas's loses to K-State and drops to 4th in the conference. Here are the current B12 standings:



Kansas State
7-2


Baylor
6-2


Iowa State
7-3


Kansas
6-4


Texas Tech
6-4


Texas
4-5


TCU
3-5


Oklahoma
3-7


Oklahoma St
2-6


West Virginia
2-8



Until Kansas is mathematically eliminated I'll still believe they will win the conference. They probably need to lose one or two more for someone else to take it, as I don't really trust the teams ahead of them to win out. But we'll see.

I’m with you- I’ll believe another Big XII team wants to win that conference when I see it. More likely all the teams will beat each other up and Kansas will tie with four others at the top at 11-7...

budwom
02-07-2019, 09:05 AM
I’m with you- I’ll believe another Big XII team wants to win that conference when I see it. More likely all the teams will beat each other up and Kansas will tie with four others at the top at 11-7...

yeah, it's like gravity, you can pretty much depend on it.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-07-2019, 09:16 AM
yeah, it's like gravity, you can pretty much depend on it.

....this ^ statement went in-operative because, well, ZION.....;)

JasonEvans
02-07-2019, 11:44 AM
I’m with you- I’ll believe another Big XII team wants to win that conference when I see it. More likely all the teams will beat each other up and Kansas will tie with four others at the top at 11-7...

It is worth noting that according to T-rank, Kansas has played the toughest schedule in the B12 so far and, as you might imagine, has the easiest remaining schedule. The JHawks have a very tough game left at Texas Tech, but will likely be favorites in all their other remaining games (@TCU and @Oklahoma are the other really dangerous games left). 11-7 or even 12-6 seems quite likely for them.

UrinalCake
02-07-2019, 08:24 PM
It is worth noting that according to T-rank, Kansas has played the toughest schedule in the B12 so far and, as you might imagine, has the easiest remaining schedule. The JHawks have a very tough game left at Texas Tech, but will likely be favorites in all their other remaining games (@TCU and @Oklahoma are the other really dangerous games left). 11-7 or even 12-6 seems quite likely for them.


Hold the phone... just saw that LaGerald Vick is taking a leave of absence from the team. No details were given, other than it was personal in nature. We should certainly all respect his privacy and resist the temptation to speculate, but as far as on the court impact this is quite a turn for Kansas in what has been a roller coaster of a season.

richardjackson199
02-07-2019, 08:32 PM
Hold the phone... just saw that LaGerald Vick is taking a leave of absence from the team. No details were given, other than it was personal in nature. We should certainly all respect his privacy and resist the temptation to speculate, but as far as on the court impact this is quite a turn for Kansas in what has been a roller coaster of a season.

That is a huge loss for Kansas. Vick is one of the best college shooters in the country when he is on. It's been a brutal season for Kansas with injuries and loss of important players.

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article225959880.html

JasonEvans
02-07-2019, 08:50 PM
It's been a brutal season for Kansas with injuries and loss of important players.

This is why the streak is so impressive. Teams sometimes just have that snake bit season where everything that can go wrong, does. That Kansas has avoided a season like this for so freaking long is truly amazing. One part crazy luck, one part great planning and skill on the part of the coaching staff.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-07-2019, 09:08 PM
This is why the streak is so impressive. Teams sometimes just have that snake bit season where everything that can go wrong, does. That Kansas has avoided a season like this for so freaking long is truly amazing. One part crazy luck, one part great planning and skill on the part of the coaching staff.

Yep, it's hard to go that many years without a season like this.....or one where the team just ended up having no chemistry. To avoid those for so long is impressive.

richardjackson199
02-07-2019, 09:12 PM
It's impressive and Bill Self is an excellent coach. It also helps to not have UVA and Tony Bennett in your conference. :cool:

UrinalCake
02-07-2019, 09:13 PM
Kind of reminds me of our 2016-2017 season. They came into the year as preseason favorites, or #2 at worst. Immediately got leapfrogged by us despite not losing. Worked their way back up to #1, but then lost Azibuike and didn't get De Sousa back and now this.

It's not all over for them, it's entirely possible and probably more likely than not that Vick will return at some point. But still a tough run for them.

westwall
02-08-2019, 08:51 AM
The Athletic has a story up today on Tucker’s transfer from Duke to Butler. Requires subscription..

budwom
02-08-2019, 08:59 AM
The Athletic has a story up today on Tucker’s transfer from Duke to Butler. Requires subscription..

May be interesting, but once they depart Duke they might as well be on the moon as far as I'm concerned..best o' luck to the lad...

AGDukesky
02-08-2019, 09:09 AM
It's impressive and Bill Self is an excellent coach. It also helps to not have UVA and Tony Bennett in your conference. :cool:

Agreed. While I feel very confident Kansas would never have come close to that streak in the ACC, I don’t think Duke would have matched Kansas’s consistency playing in the Big XII either.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-08-2019, 03:38 PM
Agreed. While I feel very confident Kansas would never have come close to that streak in the ACC, I don’t think Duke would have matched Kansas’s consistency playing in the Big XII either.

It would be hard to predict any team doing that....over that long a period of time. Of course, Kansas can't match 5 FFs in a row, 6 in 7 years, 7 in 9 years, or back to back natty's. And Duke had a pretty impressive ACC streak in the late 90s early 2000s.....

robed deity
02-09-2019, 12:32 AM
I encourage everyone to watch the Columbia-Harvard highlights. Crazy stuff.

brevity
02-09-2019, 12:45 AM
I encourage everyone to watch the Columbia-Harvard highlights. Crazy stuff.

Thanks for the recommendation. ESPN has the highlights with their game summary here (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=401087932). Harvard has posted a slightly longer version on YouTube...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O7JZJQ4sPM

... but you don't see the scores on the screen until the very end.

BD80
02-09-2019, 08:09 AM
Thanks for the recommendation. ESPN has the highlights with their game summary here (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=401087932). Harvard has posted a slightly longer version on YouTube...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O7JZJQ4sPM

... but you don't see the scores on the screen until the very end.

Great game! Why were they playing in a high school gym?

duke4ever19
02-09-2019, 04:38 PM
Marquette downs Nova after squandering a double-digit lead in the second half. Big win at home. They are the higher ranked team, but that's another great win for the program.


Wojo is doing the Coach K coaching tree proud.

hallcity
02-09-2019, 05:07 PM
Great game! Why were they playing in a high school gym?

Dude, you know the envious say that about Cameron!

duke4ever19
02-09-2019, 10:07 PM
Killian Tillie out for the rest of the regular season with a partially torn ligament in his right foot.

The stated plan is that he recovers in time for the tournament. We shall see.

brevity
02-10-2019, 02:27 AM
This Week in Wofford News (not a weekly feature):

Records are made to be broken. Again. (https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2019-02-09/college-basketball-wofford-fletcher-magee-jj-redick-3-pointers-made)

CAREER 3-POINTERS MADE

504 Travis Bader, Oakland (2010-2014)
460 Fletcher Magee, Wofford (2015-2019)
452 J.J. Redick, Duke (2002-2006)

Keep in mind that we're cool with at least 4 of those 460 makes, the ones that helped Wofford beat UNC last season (https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2017-12-21/north-carolina-upset-wofford-gets-its-moment-spotlight-road?).

YmoBeThere
02-10-2019, 06:47 AM
My other alma mater just lost its 11th straight. So much for the brilliant young coach with NBA experience meme. It is getting kind of depressing having to watch them after a great win by us earlier in the day.

unclsam1
02-10-2019, 09:11 AM
Bobby Hurley's ASU downs undefeated in Pac12 conference Washington by 12. ASU dominated the whole way. This is not supposed to happen in Bill Walton's "Conference of Champions".

HereBeforeCoachK
02-10-2019, 09:19 AM
Bobby Hurley's ASU downs undefeated in Pac12 conference Washington by 12. ASU dominated the whole way. This is not supposed to happen in Bill Walton's "Conference of Champions".

...and this was hours after Jay Bilas gushed about how great Washington was on the telecast...

Hingeknocker
02-10-2019, 10:53 AM
Marquette downs Nova after squandering a double-digit lead in the second half. Big win at home. They are the higher ranked team, but that's another great win for the program.


Wojo is doing the Coach K coaching tree proud.

This was the first Marquette game I've watched in full this year, and man are they fun to watch. I'm in love with Markus Howard. Guy never met a shot he didn't like.

As a bonus, if you have the chance to visit Milwaukee and go to a Marquette game: do it. I haven't seen a game in their new arena, but it sure looked rocking yesterday. Great fan support, great proximity to bars/restaurants for pre- and post-game revelry. Yesterday was "National Marquette Day" which essentially functions as their homecoming game since they don't have a football team. It's not a good basketball environment, it's a great one (to borrow a Bilas-ism). It's so fun to watch Wojo really experience success there. They'll be tough in March.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-10-2019, 11:10 AM
This was the first Marquette game I've watched in full this year, and man are they fun to watch. I'm in love with Markus Howard. Guy never met a shot he didn't like.

As a bonus, if you have the chance to visit Milwaukee and go to a Marquette game: do it. I haven't seen a game in their new arena, but it sure looked rocking yesterday. Great fan support, great proximity to bars/restaurants for pre- and post-game revelry. Yesterday was "National Marquette Day" which essentially functions as their homecoming game since they don't have a football team. It's not a good basketball environment, it's a great one (to borrow a Bilas-ism). It's so fun to watch Wojo really experience success there. They'll be tough in March.

Markus is the man....well, Zion is THE man, but Markus is A MAN....can score the ball

bigperm13
02-10-2019, 01:32 PM
Bilas has been the kiss of death this year. Michigan is the best team in the country - loses a couple hours later. Michigan State is the team to watch - 3 game losing streak promptly after his comment. Washington yesterday. Nice work, Jay, please don't pick Duke for anything.

JasonEvans
02-10-2019, 04:32 PM
...and this was hours after Jay Bilas gushed about how great Washington was on the telecast...

68 teams make the NCAa tourney. Want to know what Washington's record is against the top 68 teams in the land according to T-rank?
0-5

Their best win is over #81 Oregon. Yup, Washington does not have a single top 80 win on the season.

The P12 is trash, full of teams that barely qualify as mediocre. Sure, Washington is beating up on the league, but being the best of a bunch of mediocre-bad teams doesn't move the needle much at all in my book. I just hope the committee somehow makes Washington like a #8 seed so I can pick against them and call it an upset pick. The odds that they win a NCAA tourney game have to be less than 15%.


Nice work, Jay, please don't pick Duke for anything.

No worries there. Never happens.

JasonEvans
02-10-2019, 11:44 PM
One of the craziest endings you will ever see...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbQ8x38qeZ0

-Jason "not that it ever gets called, but Dixon double-dribbles just before taking the final shot" Evans

BandAlum83
02-10-2019, 11:50 PM
One of the craziest endings you will ever see...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbQ8x38qeZ0

-Jason "not that it ever gets called, but Dixon double-dribbles just before taking the final shot" Evans

I'm pretty sure I saw two players with their knees down, at least one forward lateral, and two illegal blocks. Oh wait........nevermind.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-11-2019, 07:07 AM
-Jason "not that it ever gets called, but Dixon double-dribbles just before taking the final shot" Evans

Coach Spoelstra has some words to say about that same issue vis a vis Kevin Durant......

devildeac
02-11-2019, 09:47 AM
I'm pretty sure I saw two players with their knees down, at least one forward lateral, and two illegal blocks. Oh wait....nevermind.

I think it was only 1 player with their knee down, no forward laterals and 3 illegal blocks (maybe 4). :mad:

CrazyNotCrazie
02-11-2019, 09:30 PM
I am watching the Kansas-TCU game. The court at TCU is absolutely horrible - it makes me very dizzy.

jacone21
02-11-2019, 09:51 PM
Why do officials let Jamie Dixon do this? Why does he get to be a 6th defender? He does it every game.

9047

9048

BandAlum83
02-11-2019, 10:18 PM
I think it was only 1 player with their knee down, no forward laterals and 3 illegal blocks (maybe 4). :mad:

You have the benefit of slow motion replay if you saw it that way.

I'll stand by my real-time observation

devildeac
02-11-2019, 10:49 PM
You have the benefit of slow motion replay if you saw it that way.

I'll stand by my real-time observation

Yea, we weren't there so replays and second hand reports from our younger daughter and her husband (they're still pissed) who were there are what/all I've got. I'll trust you on this one.

SavDukeGrad
02-11-2019, 10:53 PM
Why do officials let Jamie Dixon do this? Why does he get to be a 6th defender? He does it every game.

9047

9048

Buzz Williams does it too - has always driven me crazy! And, I didn’t notice it all that much until this year, but Josh Pastner seems to be doing it too. I really wish the officials would give warnings and T them up!

HereBeforeCoachK
02-11-2019, 11:07 PM
Two awful braindead possessions for TCU in final minute....now to OT.

Truth&Justise
02-12-2019, 11:25 AM
Buzz Williams does it too - has always driven me crazy! And, I didn’t notice it all that much until this year, but Josh Pastner seems to be doing it too. I really wish the officials would give warnings and T them up!

One response to this is to pull the move Jason Kidd did against Mike Woodson: intentionally run into the coach, knowing it's a technical on the coach.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB8KtMOnGvY

Truth&Justise
02-12-2019, 11:50 AM
Kansas refuses to die, and Ochai Agbaji is one of the best stories of the year.

Agbaji was a late-blooming three-star recruit from Kansas City, MO, who didn't receive an offer from a Power 5 school until January of his senior year (https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article198290629.html). A 6-5 wing who was still developing, the plan was to red-shirt Agbaji behind returning wings Marcus Garrett and LaGerald Vick, as well as 5-star recruit Quentin Grimes.

But then Kansas's season started to wobble. Center Udoka Azubuike got hurt, and the NCAA ruled Silvio de Sousa was ineligible. Pressed for minutes with a thin rotation, the team announced after a loss to Iowa State that it would burn Agbaji's redshirt. (https://247sports.com/college/kansas/Article/Ochai-Agbaji-to-burn-redshirt-play-Bill-Self-announces-on-Hawk-Talk-127548387/)

He played so well off the bench that by his seventh game he was starting over Vick, and he poured in 24 points and 7 rebounds against Texas. He has since followed that up with 23 & 6 in a win over Oklahoma State, and a 20-point 11-rebound effort in Kansas's OT win over TCU last night, in which he played an astounding 41 minutes. In light of an injury to Garrett (https://247sports.com/college/kansas/Article/KU-basketball-injury-update-on-Marcus-Garrett-from-Bill-Self-128887897/) and Vick taking a leave of absence (https://twitter.com/KUHoops/status/1093676036385107968), Agbaji's presence is even more important.

So within the span of about a year, he's gone from ignored recruit to unknown redshirt to possibly Kansas's most important player. I make no secret of my desire for Kansas's regular season conference winning streak to end, but I can't help but cheer for the sensational arrival of Ochai Agbaji.

brlftz
02-12-2019, 11:59 AM
I am happy for the kid, but it always seems unfair when a blue blood gets saved by an unknown, low-ranked recruit. I'm sensitive to this thanks to the times I've been looking forward to UNC being down, only to see them over achieve with spunky guys expected to be bench warmers. I'll never forgive them for Shammond Williams, or Luke Maye.

Truth&Justise
02-12-2019, 12:03 PM
I am happy for the kid, but it always seems unfair when a blue blood gets saved by an unknown, low-ranked recruit. I'm sensitive to this thanks to the times I've been looking forward to UNC being down, only to see them over achieve with spunky guys expected to be bench warmers. I'll never forgive them for Shammond Williams, or Luke Maye.

I hear you, but we had one season partially-saved by Lee Melchionni suddenly becoming a factor.

-jk
02-12-2019, 09:03 PM
A missed offensive interference call isn’t correctable. (I think.)

-jk

MChambers
02-12-2019, 09:03 PM
LSU wins by a tap in at the buzzer. Clearly offensive basket interference, but the refs and the announcers totally missed it.

devildeac
02-12-2019, 09:04 PM
A missed offensive interference call isn’t correctable. (I think.)

-jk

I believe you're correct but one of the UK guys clearly hit the net on his way up to contest that shot.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-13-2019, 12:22 AM
I believe you're correct but one of the UK guys clearly hit the net on his way up to contest that shot.

That move by the UK guy wasn't interference because the ball was not yet in the rim area.....

In other news, Penn State fans stormed the court after beating Michigan. The stands were about two thirds empty for the game.....kind of an odd juxtaposition.

MChambers
02-13-2019, 07:48 AM
A missed offensive interference call isn’t correctable. (I think.)

-jk

I agree, but the officials should have seen it live. One more example of how the refs hate to blow the whistle in the closing seconds.

budwom
02-13-2019, 09:38 AM
LSU wins by a tap in at the buzzer. Clearly offensive basket interference, but the refs and the announcers totally missed it.

I only saw the last few plays of the game, and was impressed by how badly the announcers (wasn't one of them Vitale?) could repeatedly watch the very clear replay and opine that it was a good basket because the ball was
"off the rim." They must've shown it five times, clear as a bell the ball was in the cylinder...

CrazyNotCrazie
02-13-2019, 10:01 AM
I only saw the last few plays of the game, and was impressed by how badly the announcers (wasn't one of them Vitale?) could repeatedly watch the very clear replay and opine that it was a good basket because the ball was
"off the rim." They must've shown it five times, clear as a bell the ball was in the cylinder...

I agree - they totally missed the rule, which really isn't that complicated of a rule. And they had plenty of time to explain it. I almost felt bad for Kentucky. Then I believe I saw Alleva smugly high fiving the LSU players after the game.

Then in the Duke game the announcers never took any time to explain the rule about whether a player being under the basket when taking a charge is reviewable. Obviously it was, but some discussion of the topic would have been helpful, as that rule is less obvious (at least to me) than the one about touching the ball in the cylinder.

Tooold
02-13-2019, 10:14 AM
Actually, Vitale was even worse than that in LSU game...besides proclaiming that the ball was out of the cylinder (although he equivocated on that), he also said that the officials were reviewing both aspects of the shot....whether it beat the buzzer AND whether it was goal tending. The announcers then led the audience to believe that the replay upheld both decisions, when in fact there is no review allowed of the offensive interference call. There is really no excuse for the announcers to have so little understanding of the rules.

SavDukeGrad
02-13-2019, 10:27 AM
I wonder if Kentucky fans have started threatening the officials from last night’s game yet? You know, or trying to ruin their businesses.

BandAlum83
02-13-2019, 02:31 PM
I only saw the last few plays of the game, and was impressed by how badly the announcers (wasn't one of them Vitale?) could repeatedly watch the very clear replay and opine that it was a good basket because the ball was
"off the rim." They must've shown it five times, clear as a bell the ball was in the cylinder...

I'm not convinced. The above the rim shot comes from an angle that makes the ball appear to be in the cylinder. The view from other angles made it appear the ball was 3/4 outside the cylinder, on it's way out completely, and definitely off the rim.

rasputin
02-13-2019, 03:12 PM
I'm not convinced. The above the rim shot comes from an angle that makes the ball appear to be in the cylinder. The view from other angles made it appear the ball was 3/4 outside the cylinder, on it's way out completely, and definitely off the rim.

Isn't 1% inside the cylinder enough?

HereBeforeCoachK
02-13-2019, 03:19 PM
Isn't 1% inside the cylinder enough?

actually, if it's above the rim, I think 1% outside is enough. Many many balls like that get dunked back in, and no one even thinks about goal tending.

BandAlum83
02-13-2019, 03:47 PM
actually, if it's above the rim, I think 1% outside is enough. Many many balls like that get dunked back in, and no one even thinks about goal tending.

I don't know what the "offical" threshold is, but 3/4 outside the cylinder is typically OK to touch, it seems from years of basketball watching.

And good point, are put back dunks ever really scrutinized for offensive interference?

Ian
02-13-2019, 03:50 PM
The criteria is pretty simple, if a defensive player knocks the ball off the rim at that moment, would you consider it goaltending on the defense, if you would, then the offensive player putting it back in at that exact moment is committing offense goaltending.

To me that ball was still in the cylinder and it was an obvious offensive goaltending.

HereBeforeCoachK
02-13-2019, 04:09 PM
The criteria is pretty simple, if a defensive player knocks the ball off the rim at that moment, would you consider it goaltending on the defense, if you would, then the offensive player putting it back in at that exact moment is committing offense goaltending.

To me that ball was still in the cylinder and it was an obvious offensive goaltending.

In theory, you may be right, and maybe the test is where are the player's hands - inside or outside the cylinder....either way; talk to me about put back dunks. I say a lot of put back dunks are done in similar situations and no one every mentions goaltending. Am I missing something here?

Phredd3
02-13-2019, 04:18 PM
In other news, Penn State fans stormed the court after beating Michigan. The stands were about two thirds empty for the game....kind of an odd juxtaposition.

Yeah, I'm not sure that even counts as a court storming. Maybe EF0.