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BD80
11-07-2018, 08:31 PM
It is amusing listening to Jalen Rose defending the Fab Five's status as the best recruiting class ever. His main argument is that none of Duke's frosh would start over Webber or Howard at the 4 or 5. He then dissembles, feigning modesty, saying: "if you want to start one of them over me on the perimeter, fine."


I think the biggest problem with the comparison is to think of Webber, Howard and Rose as pros or at least at the end of two years of college, compared to Duke's guys in their first college game.

Webber was a gifted player, legitimately the #1 player and a player Duke wanted badly. But frankly, I would say Zion is every bit as good.

Howard is a tough comparison, but he did tend to disappear as a freshman (11 ppg, 6 rpg). He was skilled, but he didn't dominate right off of the starting line. We don't have a comparably sized player, but Cam is out performing Howard.

Rose is the most amusing to consider. He was a talented PG and the most successful freshman, but he was a dreadful shooter. RJ is on modern version of Rose, just better.

Jimmy King and Tre might be a push, but 7 assists v 0 TOs is tough to argue with.

Ray Jackson was not near the level of the others (#84 ranked recruit), and got the start because Steve Fisher caved to the hype and to keep his star players happy. Averaged 5ppg and 4 rpg as a frosh. By his senior year, he was a solid player, averaging 15ppg and 5 rpg. Joey is probably clearly better.

dukelifer
11-07-2018, 08:50 PM
It is amusing listening to Jalen Rose defending the Fab Five's status as the best recruiting class ever. His main argument is that none of Duke's frosh would start over Webber or Howard at the 4 or 5. He then dissembles, feigning modesty, saying: "if you want to start one of them over me on the perimeter, fine."


I think the biggest problem with the comparison is to think of Webber, Howard and Rose as pros or at least at the end of two years of college, compared to Duke's guys in their first college game.

Webber was a gifted player, legitimately the #1 player and a player Duke wanted badly. But frankly, I would say Zion is every bit as good.

Howard is a tough comparison, but he did tend to disappear as a freshman (11 ppg, 6 rpg). He was skilled, but he didn't dominate right off of the starting line. We don't have a comparably sized player, but Cam is out performing Howard.

Rose is the most amusing to consider. He was a talented PG and the most successful freshman, but he was a dreadful shooter. RJ is on modern version of Rose, just better.

Jimmy King and Tre might be a push, but 7 assists v 0 TOs is tough to argue with.

Ray Jackson was not near the level of the others (#84 ranked recruit), and got the start because Steve Fisher caved to the hype and to keep his star players happy. Averaged 5ppg and 4 rpg as a frosh. By his senior year, he was a solid player, averaging 15ppg and 5 rpg. Joey is probably clearly better.

The Fab Five could not even beat the 1992-1993 Tar Heels that had no real pro talent. Donald Williams was the MOP. For those who don't recall,Williams (according to Wikipedia) had " a successful career playing professionally in Cyprus, Germany, Austria, Poland, France, Sweden, Finland, Greece and the Philippines, where he won a championship in 1998 as a player for Formula Shell, coached by Perry Ronquillo, and the Dominican Republic."

kAzE
11-07-2018, 09:03 PM
Every time I hear the Fab Five comparison, I think about how Marvin Bagley was supposed to originally be in the 2018 class . . .

Boy, if he never re-classed, he would have been the most perfect center for this team, with the 4 guys. We would have gotten every rebound in existence, and the fast breaks would have been non-stop. That would have been the all-time Fab Five.

Bluedog
11-07-2018, 09:16 PM
Every time I hear the Fab Five comparison, I think about how Marvin Bagley was supposed to originally be in the 2018 class . . .

Boy, if he never re-classed, he would have been the most perfect center for this team, with the 4 guys. We would have gotten every rebound in existence, and the fast breaks would have been non-stop. That would have been the all-time Fab Five.

But it's possible if we had Marvin in the bag, we wouldn't have gotten all the other guys. Impossible to predict.

Man, I started to watch the Stephen A arguing with Jalen about this on a clip, and I couldn't finish it was so painful...

subzero02
11-07-2018, 09:28 PM
There's something our freshmen can do at the end of the season to hold a trump card over the Fab Five in any argument.

Steven43
11-07-2018, 10:22 PM
But it's possible if we had Marvin in the bag, we wouldn't have gotten all the other guys. Impossible to predict.

Man, I started to watch the Stephen A arguing with Jalen about this on a clip, and I couldn't finish it was so painful...

Jalen lost what little credibility he had remaining in regard to commenting on anything Duke-related when he said Zion Williamson would not start on his Michigan freshman-year team. What an absolute joke. In fact, in comparing the starting lineups of the two teams Duke has three of the top four players — Cam Reddish, RJ Barrett, and Zion, with Webber being the fourth — and maybe even four of the top five depending upon whether one considers Tre Jones to be better than Jalen Rose.

Newton_14
11-07-2018, 10:24 PM
Methinks we need a poll to decide this. I will state my strong and firm opinion once again. Webber is the only Fab 5 member that would start on this Duke team. That's it. And all 4 of our Freshmen would have started on that Fab 5 team, again with Webber.

Jalen Rose was a great College PG for sure but Tre would be the better fit at PG with Zion/RJ/Cam/Webber than would Jalen.

And you can tell Jalen I said that lol. :cool:

BigWayne
11-08-2018, 03:32 AM
In the clip of this discussion, Jalen Rose achieved what I didn't think possible. He made me actually like Stephen A Smith for a few minutes.
Jalen needs to let go of his fixation on trying to make himself better in his own mind than all things related to Duke.

Made me do a bit of googling and refound this excellent response to Jalen seven years ago. https://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/grant-hills-response-to-jalen-rose/

devilsince1977
11-08-2018, 07:57 AM
Methinks we need a poll to decide this. I will state my strong and firm opinion once again. Webber is the only Fab 5 member that would start on this Duke team. That's it. And all 4 of our Freshmen would have started on that Fab 5 team, again with Webber

How much fun would that team be to watch? Jones, Barrett, Reddish, Williamson, and Webber.

HereBeforeCoachK
11-08-2018, 08:36 AM
How much fun would that team be to watch? Jones, Barrett, Reddish, Williamson, and Webber.

Zion and Webber together? I think by the law of physics such a pairing would cause a swirling vortex that would suck all of college BB into some kind of black hole......

thedukelamere
11-08-2018, 09:47 AM
Zion and Webber together? I think by the law of physics such a pairing would cause a swirling vortex that would suck all of college BB into some kind of black hole...

If I understand physics correctly, this would mean Chapel Hell would be the first to be sucked in? Sounds like a win to me.

elvis14
11-08-2018, 10:07 AM
In the clip of this discussion, Jalen Rose achieved what I didn't think possible. He made me actually like Stephen A Smith for a few minutes.
Jalen needs to let go of his fixation on trying to make himself better in his own mind than all things related to Duke.

Made me do a bit of googling and I found this excellent response to Jalen seven years ago. https://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/grant-hills-response-to-jalen-rose/

Wow, as much as I disagree with Jalen, I'll just about never like SAS for even a few minutes. I literally change the channel off of ESPN or change the radio station when he's on. I find him to be a ridiculous caricature that yells too much.

As for Jalen....what did you guys think he was going to say? The Fab Five was pretty unique in it's day and Jalen being part of it is going to overestimate that crew every chance he gets.

At my best friends wedding, the bride had to retrieve the groom from the kitchen of the reception hall because he and I snuck back there to watch Duke beat the Fab 5. She was not amused. (note wedding date 12/5/1992)

arnie
11-08-2018, 10:14 AM
Wow, as much as I disagree with Jalen, I'll just about never like SAS for even a few minutes. I literally change the channel off of ESPN or change the radio station when he's on. I find him to be a ridiculous caricature that yells too much.

As for Jalen...what did you guys think he was going to say? The Fab Five was pretty unique in it's day and Jalen being part of it is going to overestimate that crew every chance he gets.

At my best friends wedding, the bride had to retrieve the groom from the kitchen of the reception hall because he and I snuck back there to watch Duke beat the Fab 5. She was not amused. (note wedding date 12/5/1992)
Very poor planning by the groom. All weddings should be held between mid-April and late August to avoid these major conflicts. Also need to avoid US Open weekend particularly if played on west coast.

WillJ
11-08-2018, 10:19 AM
Juwan Howard deserves some respect - not an athletic freak, but he was an All-Star one year and played for 19 years in the league. He was a very smart player even as a freshman.

elvis14
11-08-2018, 10:23 AM
Very poor planning by the groom. All weddings should be held between mid-April and late August to avoid these major conflicts. Also need to avoid US Open weekend particularly if played on west coast.

LOL, I'll discuss this with him soon. Staying at his house over the Thanksgiving holidays (obviously his wife eventually forgave me). It does help me remember/find the date of their wedding.

kAzE
11-08-2018, 10:26 AM
Methinks we need a poll to decide this. I will state my strong and firm opinion once again. Webber is the only Fab 5 member that would start on this Duke team. That's it. And all 4 of our Freshmen would have started on that Fab 5 team, again with Webber.

Jalen Rose was a great College PG for sure but Tre would be the better fit at PG with Zion/RJ/Cam/Webber than would Jalen.

And you can tell Jalen I said that lol. :cool:

Yeah, Webber is the only guy who has comparable talent to RJ and Zion. Maybe not a popular opinion here, but I still think Webber as a incoming college kid was still the best prospect of all these guys. You just can't quantify a hyper athletic 6'11" guy with legit guard skills. He should have had a much better NBA career than he did. Zion is a demi-god, but I think Chris Webber was still the better NBA prospect at the time.

Our big 3 are all individually better than any of the rest of the Fab 5, though, no question.

gocanes0506
11-08-2018, 10:39 AM
Jalen lost what little credibility he had remaining in regard to commenting on anything Duke-related when he said Zion Williamson would not start on his Michigan freshman-year team. What an absolute joke. In fact, in comparing the starting lineups of the two teams Duke has three of the top four players — Cam Reddish, RJ Barrett, and Zion, with Webber being the fourth — and maybe even four of the top five depending upon whether one considers Tre Jones to be better than Jalen Rose.

I thought he lost all credibility when reporting on Duke based on his comments about Grant Hill.

Someone on Twitter said CWebb was better than Zion. I responded with as long as he isn’t as good at calling timeouts as CWebb, Duke will be good.

BigZ
11-08-2018, 10:42 AM
Everyone forgets that when Duke beat the Fab Five that Duke had the two best players on the court

Kdogg
11-08-2018, 10:47 AM
How is this even a real argument? Those five players didn't start from day one. The Fab Five, as a starting unit, didn't happen until mid season. Having said that, no one is starting over Webber. I'd putt Howard above our guys and Rose is a push but all our freshman start over King and Jackson.

Tripping William
11-08-2018, 10:48 AM
Everyone forgets that when Duke beat the Fab Five that Duke had the two best players on the court

Only two? I’d argue for three.

TruBlu
11-08-2018, 11:01 AM
Very poor planning by the groom. All weddings should be held between mid-April and late August to avoid these major conflicts. Also need to avoid US Open weekend particularly if played on west coast.

Yep. I stressed to my two daughters when raising them to avoid any scheduling that interferes with football and basketball seasons. So far they aren’t cooperating. One got married during sweet sixteen weekend. Three of my four granddaughters have birthdays during football and basketball seasons.

I have now put my foot down and demanded that they practice abstinence from November through August. We will see if they listen.

wavedukefan70s
11-08-2018, 11:01 AM
It's such a different game .we have multipositional players .first game to first game yeah I believe duke could hang with them.coach k is damn sure better than Fisher .i would hope we do better by the last game.
The fab 5 are envious of Duke always have been.Duke stole a lot of thier thunder .the fact that laettner was the face of duke basketball just burns them up.

53n206
11-08-2018, 12:51 PM
The real question should be: Can our current team beat the Fab Five? I think so, but it is really, really early in the season, and in their playing as a team.

Indoor66
11-08-2018, 02:10 PM
Well, they are all over 45. I'll take Duke in this game. 🤣