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DukeTrinity11
11-07-2018, 10:50 AM
Some people sitting next to me at the bar I watched this game at mentioned this to me and I thought it was an interesting thought experiment.

Obviously I'm not talking about this team as they are today but if you transport them 5 years in the future and they face the current Cavs or Hawks roster, how do you think they do?

I still think Duke would have the best 3 players on the floor with Cam, RJ and Zion but Trae/Sexton would be a massive upgrade over Tre Jones plus the Center position and bench would clearly go the NBA team's direction.

Thoughts? I know its one game and such hyperbole is probably unwarranted but we can't simply dismiss what we witnessed last night considering we have 5 NBA prospects at every single position on our starting lineup.

luburch
11-07-2018, 10:52 AM
Absolutely not.

Wander
11-07-2018, 10:59 AM
Nope.

Although I will say that is also ridiculous when people claim that teams like Duke would go 0-82 in an NBA season. No way. We'd be the worst team, but would still win a few games.

brlftz
11-07-2018, 11:00 AM
It's not something anyone serious would even consider arguing in favor of.

DarkstarWahoo
11-07-2018, 11:02 AM
Nope.

Although I will say that is also ridiculous when people claim that teams like Duke would go 0-82 in an NBA season. No way. We'd be the worst team, but would still win a few games.
If nothing else, you guys would have no reason to tank.

freshmanjs
11-07-2018, 11:03 AM
Thoughts? I know its one game and such hyperbole is probably unwarranted but we can't simply dismiss what we witnessed last night considering we have 5 NBA prospects at every single position on our starting lineup.

We've had 5 NBA prospects as starters before, as recently as just last year. Also Duhon, Jwil, Battier, Dunleavy, Boozer. Kyrie, Nolan, Singler, Curry, Plumlee.

CameronBlue
11-07-2018, 11:05 AM
No, but they'd kill it in the WNBA, most rec leagues and U-15 circuit. So why is this a topic again?

Billy Dat
11-07-2018, 11:06 AM
Some people sitting next to me at the bar I watched this game at mentioned this to me and I thought it was an interesting thought experiment.

Obviously I'm not talking about this team as they are today but if you transport them 5 years in the future and they face the current Cavs or Hawks roster, how do you think they do?

I still think Duke would have the best 3 players on the floor with Cam, RJ and Zion but Trae/Sexton would be a massive upgrade over Tre Jones plus the Center position and bench would clearly go the NBA team's direction.

Thoughts? I know its one game and such hyperbole is probably unwarranted but we can't simply dismiss what we witnessed last night considering we have 5 NBA prospects at every single position on our starting lineup.

The key to your question is the "transport them 5 years into the future". Right now, they'd get killed by any NBA team. When they are 23? Current 23 year olds in the NBA include Jabari, Karl Anthony Townes, Porzingis, etc. If they stay healthy, I'd say our 3 wings are definitely NBA players when they are 23. Tre is a little less of a sure thing, but I will give it to him. Our fifth starter, Marquese last night but could be Javin or Jack depending on the opponent and how the team progresses, is not a sure fire NBA player. So, could 23 year old RJ, Zion and Cam beat an NBA team playing with a below average NBA point guard and a Euro-league quality big or wing? Maybe.

DukeTrinity11
11-07-2018, 11:14 AM
Absolutely not.

So you think that Taurean Prince, Kevin Huerter and John Collins of today are clearly better than the Cam, RJ and Zion of 2023?

Again, I'm talking about this Duke roster 5 years from now matched up vs a currently constructed NBA roster.

phaedrus
11-07-2018, 11:21 AM
Some people sitting next to me at the bar I watched this game at mentioned this to me and I thought it was an interesting thought experiment.

Obviously I'm not talking about this team as they are today but if you transport them 5 years in the future and they face the current Cavs or Hawks roster, how do you think they do?

I still think Duke would have the best 3 players on the floor with Cam, RJ and Zion but Trae/Sexton would be a massive upgrade over Tre Jones plus the Center position and bench would clearly go the NBA team's direction.

Thoughts? I know its one game and such hyperbole is probably unwarranted but we can't simply dismiss what we witnessed last night considering we have 5 NBA prospects at every single position on our starting lineup.

If you take this team in their future prime as NBA players (probably more like 10 years than 5 years from now) and pit them against a future bad NBA team, then sure, I think Future Duke wins. Future Duke has three top-5 picks, potentially three NBA All-Stars, and at least a couple of fringe NBA players if not solid role players. Needless to say, a team with three All-Stars would win a lot of games - even if the talent drop-off after the first three were steep. But even if only one of these guys becomes an All-Star, and the other two are merely above-average NBA starters, they're probably better than at least a few teams.

This is a very different hypothetical than asking whether Duke could beat the Cavs tomorrow, but that seems to be what you're getting at.

Notably, there were probably other Duke teams for whom this was true. If you banded together the '99 team in 2006, for instance (before Elton's injury), you'd have had a team with Elton, Maggette, and Battier, two others who didn't last very long in the NBA (Langdon and Avery), and still others who didn't quite make it to the NBA. That team would have at least been better than the 21-61 Portland Trail Blazers, whose second-best player was Darius Miles.

OldPhiKap
11-07-2018, 11:24 AM
I bet if we took on a team of tiny Ditka's, we could probably split five out of ten.

This team is talented, and potentially has several future NBA players. Maybe even some stars. But our roster five years from now, against NBA teams, would lose many more games than they won.

It's the same with Alabama football. Their team is crushing college competition right now. But they would lose most games against NFL teams, even the crappy ones.

JasonEvans
11-07-2018, 11:41 AM
Although I will say that is also ridiculous when people claim that teams like Duke would go 0-82 in an NBA season. No way. We'd be the worst team, but would still win a few games.

No offense, but I think you have lost your mind. This present Duke team would not only go 0-82, they would probably lose every game by 20+points. Marvin Bagley, who until now was the most dominant freshman we have ever seen in a Duke uniform, is not even a starter in the NBA today... and he is playing for the Kings!

Let's pretend that Zion, RJ, and Cam could hold their own against mediocre NBA starters right now (a dubious statement, but not entirely unlikely) Duke would be so massively outclassed at the other two positions on the floor that it would be a joke. In a couple years, with a lot of work and improvement, Marquis Bolden might have a chance against a NBA big... but today, he would get torched for 20-and-20 if not worse. Tre Jones against a NBA point guard... sorry, no way.

And at some point we would have to go to our bench (probably because Bolden and Zion would foul out in about 20 minutes from guarding NBA bigs) and that is where the rout would be on. Jack, Javin, and Alex against NBA 6th-8th men... whew... every game would be over by halftime.

-Jason "five years from now...maybe we would have a chance but I still think the massive drop-off once you hit the 5th -8th man would be too much to overcome. NBA teams have college All-Americans riding the bench" Evans

moonpie23
11-07-2018, 12:01 PM
stop..............

plimnko
11-07-2018, 12:06 PM
just my opinion, some folks are drunk with excitement over one night of basketball where EVERYTHING seemed to go duke's way.

Wander
11-07-2018, 12:08 PM
No offense, but I think you have lost your mind. This present Duke team would not only go 0-82, they would probably lose every game by 20+points. Marvin Bagley, who until now was the most dominant freshman we have ever seen in a Duke uniform, is not even a starter in the NBA today... and he is playing for the Kings!

Let's pretend that Zion, RJ, and Cam could hold their own against mediocre NBA starters right now (a dubious statement, but not entirely unlikely) Duke would be so massively outclassed at the other two positions on the floor that it would be a joke. In a couple years, with a lot of work and improvement, Marquis Bolden might have a chance against a NBA big... but today, he would get torched for 20-and-20 if not worse. Tre Jones against a NBA point guard... sorry, no way.

And at some point we would have to go to our bench (probably because Bolden and Zion would foul out in about 20 minutes from guarding NBA bigs) and that is where the rout would be on. Jack, Javin, and Alex against NBA 6th-8th men... whew... every game would be over by halftime.

-Jason "five years from now...maybe we would have a chance but I still think the massive drop-off once you hit the 5th -8th man would be too much to overcome. NBA teams have college All-Americans riding the bench" Evans

No way dude. I could transcribe your argument nearly word for word to "prove" that Duke would beat Lehigh and Mercer by 30 points every time. The talent gap between Duke and the worst NBA team is not all that different from the talent gap between Duke and those two teams. Lehigh showed that a vastly inferior team can win if they have the single best player, even if they are massively outclassed at all other positions. Mercer showed that a team can win if they are massively outclassed in talent at EVERY position.

Now, Lehigh/Mercer had advantages in experience, which the NBA team would also have. And that hurts a lot. But throw in advantages from Coach K, Cameron, and the tanking factor mentioned by DarkstarWahoo, and we would absolutely win a few games in an 82 game season. Guaranteed. I would bet 1000 pies on it.

BeachBlueDevil
11-07-2018, 12:14 PM
We've only seen 40 minutes of this team in a regular season capacity. Need a larger sample size than 40 minutes... Once we even have that it still seem unlikely this team could beat an NBA team.

However, if they played the worst NBA team 10 times in a row they MIGHT keep one or two games within 10 points.

Native
11-07-2018, 12:25 PM
Obviously I'm not talking about this team as they are today but if you transport them 5 years in the future and they face the current Cavs or Hawks roster, how do you think they do?

For a non-Duke example, take 2012 UK. They had MGK, Anthony Davis, Marquis Teague, and Kyle Wiltjer, lost only two games all season, and were a historically great defensive team. Aside from a blip in the SECT championship they pretty much dominated everyone they played. The results that that team got are what the most optimistic corners of Duke fandom are expecting out of this team.

Of those four, which comprised a consensus #1-ranked recruiting class, only MKG and AD are still in the league. As phenomenal as AD is, he isn't carrying a team on his own to win anything in the NBA. Just take a look at the current NOP roster.

You're basically arguing that not only is this the greatest recruiting class of all time, but the margin between the next best is so astronomically wide that they aren't even in the same universe. The former may very well be true by the end of the year, but the latter? No way.

Sidebar: I think for framing this discussion, you have to look at who would win a seven-game series. There's so much noise in the NBA regular season that the best team doesn't always win 100% of the time, but the playoffs largely removes that. Is it entirely impossible that we shoot 85% and steal a game? No — but we ain't winning the series.

gus
11-07-2018, 12:58 PM
No way dude. I could transcribe your argument nearly word for word to "prove" that Duke would beat Lehigh and Mercer by 30 points every time. The talent gap between Duke and the worst NBA team is not all that different from the talent gap between Duke and those two teams. Lehigh showed that a vastly inferior team can win if they have the single best player, even if they are massively outclassed at all other positions. Mercer showed that a team can win if they are massively outclassed in talent at EVERY position.

Now, Lehigh/Mercer had advantages in experience, which the NBA team would also have. And that hurts a lot. But throw in advantages from Coach K, Cameron, and the tanking factor mentioned by DarkstarWahoo, and we would absolutely win a few games in an 82 game season. Guaranteed. I would bet 1000 pies on it.

Let's say Duke has on average a 1% chance of winning a game against an NBA team (and that may be optimistic). There would be a 44% chance that they'd lose every game in an 82 game season and roughly 5% chance of winning more than 2 games.

OldPhiKap
11-07-2018, 01:24 PM
If we played NBA teams, would Duke still get all the calls?

An important consideration, IMHO.

budwom
11-07-2018, 01:42 PM
just my opinion, some folks are drunk with excitement over one night of basketball where EVERYTHING seemed to go duke's way.

Absolutely, though I think I might take Duke over the 1947 Syracuse Nationals.

ChillinDuke
11-07-2018, 01:45 PM
One annoying thing about social media and Boards in general is that the same question is often asked multiple times. This surely won't be the last time someone asks this particular question.

The answer is still, "No."

It will be "No" the next time it's asked as well.

The real advancement of AI will be when it can stop social media users from posting things that have been hashed out billions of times before and just route them to the previous debate. That will be a fun day, huh?

(No offense intended to the OP.)

- Chillin

johnb
11-07-2018, 02:05 PM
Obviously I'm not talking about this team as they are today but if you transport them 5 years in the future and they face the current Cavs or Hawks roster, how do you think they do?


Geez. The original poster very specifically wondered whether this team could compete against the worst NBA teams in the year 2023. By that point, I'd guess that at least 4 of our players will have been in the league for several years. Three of them will likely have been chosen among the top 5 or 10 players and will presumably be multi-year starters. Could they compete against the Cavs and Hawks? Even if we think it's best to get at least a couple of data points before sketching out a trajectory of awesomeness, I'd think this team in 2023 would not embarrass itself.

Asked a different way, do you think the Cavs or Hawks would trade their current starters for the chance to have our starters in 2023? Given that the most elite players command an enormous premium and that benchwarmers are relatively interchangeable, and that some of our guys MIGHT end up being all stars, I wouldn't be so quick to condemn!

uh_no
11-07-2018, 02:13 PM
Asked a different way, do you think the Cavs or Hawks would trade their current starters for the chance to have our starters in 2023? Given that the most elite players command an enormous premium and that benchwarmers are relatively interchangeable, and that some of our guys MIGHT end up being all stars, I wouldn't be so quick to condemn!

I don't doubt our 4 starters with 5 more years of experience, and an NBA bench would be able to win a few. The question didn't give you an NBA bench though. If you had to go to the floor with our 4 freshmen and jack white and javin and alex, I'll take the NBA team every time. The frosh could hold their own in 5 years time, and the bench would get run off the floor.

nmduke2001
11-07-2018, 02:24 PM
The interesting caveat to your question is 5 years from now. I think looking at past teams might give a clue.

1999
Battier
Brand
Avery
Langdon
Maggette

Each of these 5 had at least one start in the NBA. As a hypothetical starting unit with the assumption that they were all at their best NBA level (so not 5 years but their best year), this starting five might hold their own against some of the lower end NBA teams starting fives.

2001
Battier
Boozer
Duhon
Dunleavy
Dahntay Jones
Jason Williams

Same scenario as 1999. All of these guys started at some point in the NBA. One giant assumption; if Jason didn’t get hurt and reached the level in which we all thought he would reach, I think this hypothetical 6 team unit could at least compete with several NBA team’s top 6.

Against a full team, no chance.

Wander
11-07-2018, 02:38 PM
Let's say Duke has on average a 1% chance of winning a game against an NBA team (and that may be optimistic). There would be a 44% chance that they'd lose every game in an 82 game season and roughly 5% chance of winning more than 2 games.

I think your average estimate is about right, actually. A few years ago, Vegas estimated the line would be 15 points between the best college team (Kentucky, at that time) and the worst NBA team (the Knicks). The line between an average NBA team and the worst NBA team is about 10 points on a neutral court. So let's say they add, the best college team would be about 25 point underdogs to an average NBA team. Looking at kenpom, that does translate to about a 1% chance of winning.

BUT.... you can't just take the average chance of winning and raise it to an exponent of 82 like that (to see what I mean, consider an extreme scenario where Team A has a 0% chance of winning their first game and a 100% chance of winning their second game, but Team B has a 50% chance of winning their first game and a 50% chance of winning their second game.... Team A has 100% of winning 1 game, Team B has a 75% of winning 1 game, despite the fact that they have the same average win percentage). The college team would only be an 11 point underdog against a terrible NBA team at home, which translates to about a 15% chance of victory. Sprinkle in a few games where the college team has a 15% chance of winning, a few more where the college team has a 10% of winning, a few more where the college team has a 5% of winning (and yes, the vast majority of games would be between 0–1%)... and you'll find it very likely that the college team would not go 0-82.

I probably went overboard in saying it would be "guaranteed" that a great college team (I know I said Duke, but I really mean a particularly good national championship college team... who knows if that's Duke this year or not) would win "a few" games. But they would be very likely to not go 0-82.

DukeTrinity11
11-07-2018, 02:52 PM
One annoying thing about social media and Boards in general is that the same question is often asked multiple times. This surely won't be the last time someone asks this particular question.

The answer is still, "No."

It will be "No" the next time it's asked as well.

The real advancement of AI will be when it can stop social media users from posting things that have been hashed out billions of times before and just route them to the previous debate. That will be a fun day, huh?

(No offense intended to the OP.)

- Chillin
Did you read what I posted? I don't believe the variation of the question as I posed it has been asked on this board multiple times.

Let me rephrase: Would the peak pro potential of the current Duke roster be able to compete with the worst NBA teams at any point?


I think it would depend on just how good Barrett, Zion and RJ become. If 1 or 2 of them become All-NBA caliber, I think they could certainly compete and beat the present day Knicks and Hawks.

I agree with those that have posted that our bench would pale in comparison to NBA benches so 2 of the Big 3 would likely have to be on the floor at all times.

Honestly, this hypothetical might hinge more on if Tre Jones can at least become what Tyus is in the NBA and if Bolden can become serviceable big like Dewayne Dedmon or something. This would exponentially increase Duke's chances of holding its own.

Newton_14
11-07-2018, 02:54 PM
No
No

JNort
11-07-2018, 02:55 PM
Nope.

Although I will say that is also ridiculous when people claim that teams like Duke would go 0-82 in an NBA season. No way. We'd be the worst team, but would still win a few games.
I gotta side with JE on this. I don't think a college team would stand a chance. They would he outdone in literally every facet of the game by large amounts.

DukeTrinity11
11-07-2018, 02:59 PM
For a non-Duke example, take 2012 UK. They had MGK, Anthony Davis, Marquis Teague, and Kyle Wiltjer, lost only two games all season, and were a historically great defensive team. Aside from a blip in the SECT championship they pretty much dominated everyone they played. The results that that team got are what the most optimistic corners of Duke fandom are expecting out of this team.

Of those four, which comprised a consensus #1-ranked recruiting class, only MKG and AD are still in the league. As phenomenal as AD is, he isn't carrying a team on his own to win anything in the NBA. Just take a look at the current NOP roster.

You're basically arguing that not only is this the greatest recruiting class of all time, but the margin between the next best is so astronomically wide that they aren't even in the same universe. The former may very well be true by the end of the year, but the latter? No way.

Sidebar: I think for framing this discussion, you have to look at who would win a seven-game series. There's so much noise in the NBA regular season that the best team doesn't always win 100% of the time, but the playoffs largely removes that. Is it entirely impossible that we shoot 85% and steal a game? No — but we ain't winning the series.
A better example would be Kentucky's 2009-2010 team which actually shows that what I'm hypothesizing is plausible.

UK Starters:

John Wall
Eric Bledsoe
Darius Miller
Patrick Patterson
Boogie Cousins

Fast forward to today and all 5 of those guys are high level NBA starters or rotation players and even with a terrible bench (John Hood, Daniel Orton, DeAndre Liggins), this team would at least be considered at least an average NBA team, possibly above average.

It might be tougher for Duke 2018-19 to replicate UK 2009-10 in NBA success as a roster because our PG and C are likely glaring weaknesses which would be tough to overcome.

DukeTrinity11
11-07-2018, 03:00 PM
No
No

See my example of UK 2009-10 which proves its possible.

jimsumner
11-07-2018, 03:01 PM
Absolutely, though I think I might take Duke over the 1947 Syracuse Nationals.

Absolutely. Those guys must be really old by now.

JasonEvans
11-07-2018, 03:06 PM
Can I just say that rival fans who come here to see what we are talking about are looking at this thread and laughing like crazy. I don't even want to think of what we would be saying if we saw a thread like this on a rival board... even if that rival had just laid an historic and humiliating beatdown on a top-tier team the night before.

unclsam1
11-07-2018, 03:19 PM
I watch a lot of Warrior's games, and Duke's transition game last night reminded me a lot of the Warrior's style when they go on a spurt to jump out into an insurmountable lead.

dukelifer
11-07-2018, 03:21 PM
No offense, but I think you have lost your mind. This present Duke team would not only go 0-82, they would probably lose every game by 20+points. Marvin Bagley, who until now was the most dominant freshman we have ever seen in a Duke uniform, is not even a starter in the NBA today... and he is playing for the Kings!

Let's pretend that Zion, RJ, and Cam could hold their own against mediocre NBA starters right now (a dubious statement, but not entirely unlikely) Duke would be so massively outclassed at the other two positions on the floor that it would be a joke. In a couple years, with a lot of work and improvement, Marquis Bolden might have a chance against a NBA big... but today, he would get torched for 20-and-20 if not worse. Tre Jones against a NBA point guard... sorry, no way.

And at some point we would have to go to our bench (probably because Bolden and Zion would foul out in about 20 minutes from guarding NBA bigs) and that is where the rout would be on. Jack, Javin, and Alex against NBA 6th-8th men... whew... every game would be over by halftime.

-Jason "five years from now...maybe we would have a chance but I still think the massive drop-off once you hit the 5th -8th man would be too much to overcome. NBA teams have college All-Americans riding the bench" Evans

Exactly- This Duke team played very well last night- but I am not sure they would even beat the 1992 Duke squad. This is a fun group- but be clear- they had a great night collectively. It may never be repeated against top 10 opposition.

jimsumner
11-07-2018, 03:46 PM
Even we project the four freshmen starters, along with Bolden and DeLaurier, perhaps Baker, five years into the future in the most positive progression, we still run into the problem that NBA teams--even the worst NBA teams--go pretty deep into their benches. So, what kind of NBA potential does the OP think we can project for O'Connell, White, Goldwire, Vrankovic or Robinson?


Even marginal NBA players are pretty darn good. Heck, G-league players are pretty good. Remember Frank Jackson? After sitting out last year with a foot injury, Jackson is buried on the New Orleans bench, along with 2015 ACC POY Jahlil Okafor. 2015 Final Four MOP Tyus Jones is a bench player. Gary Trent was lighting it up a year ago for Duke. But he can't get any NBA traction. Amile Jefferson dominated the G-league last year and he can't make the Orlando roster.

I think this question keeps popping up because this is a Duke-centric board and we have some posters who just don't follow the NBA closely enough to realize how absurd the premise is.

Wander
11-07-2018, 04:04 PM
Remember Frank Jackson?


Honestly? No, not really.



I think this question keeps popping up because this is a Duke-centric board and we have some posters who just don't follow the NBA closely enough to realize how absurd the premise is.

And we have too many posters who just reflexively scoff at these kinds of questions without really thinking about it. We're currently projected to have three top-5 picks. If those guys do actually go that high in the draft, and if they actually pan out into All-Star caliber players the NBA, it's perfectly reasonable to state that we might have more overall talent than at least one NBA team (even though, as you say, our talent would be MUCH less deep than even the worst NBA team).

Those are two big ifs... but it's not unthinkable that they both turn out to be true. In fact, as DukeTrinity11 pointed out, it's arguably already happened with the 2010 Kentucky team.

jimsumner
11-07-2018, 04:56 PM
Honestly? No, not really.



And we have too many posters who just reflexively scoff at these kinds of questions without really thinking about it. We're currently projected to have three top-5 picks. If those guys do actually go that high in the draft, and if they actually pan out into All-Star caliber players the NBA, it's perfectly reasonable to state that we might have more overall talent than at least one NBA team (even though, as you say, our talent would be MUCH less deep than even the worst NBA team).

Those are two big ifs... but it's not unthinkable that they both turn out to be true. In fact, as DukeTrinity11 pointed out, it's arguably already happened with the 2010 Kentucky team.

I'm not reflexively scoffing at it. I'm scoffing at it after reflection.

The key word here is "team." An NBA team has 15 players, 12 active for any particular game. The idea that 2019 Duke or 2010 Kentucky or any other college team has talent even remotely equal to an NBA team 12 deep or 15 deep is scoff-worthy.

WHOneedsSOX
11-07-2018, 05:02 PM
Absolutely not. Duke has 4 maybe 5 NBA players on the roster. NBA teams obviously have 12-15.

I'm not even sure Duke is the best COLLEGE basketball team in the nation. That win last night was damn impressive but it was only one game against another young team. We'll see in April. There's film now out on them and as more games go on there will be more. There will be games were Duke shoots 1-15 from 3. We'll see how they respond in those games. Other than foul trouble, there's absolutely nothing that went wrong for Duke last night. There's 35+ games to go where things could and will go wrong.

weezie
11-07-2018, 05:04 PM
I'm not reflexively scoffing at it. I'm scoffing at it after reflection...

Next we'll have haters decrying our scoffing.

Can't win with the unwashed, slack-jawed hordes.:cool:

JNort
11-07-2018, 05:24 PM
I think most everyone isn't going by the rules the OP set up. However even if you do that then it still isn't close. To make it closer you would need to only have a 5v5 of starting lineups because NBA depth would destroy the college team. Even that proposed UK team wouldn't hold up with the lack of depth and shooting.

OldPhiKap
11-07-2018, 05:28 PM
I'm not even sure Duke is the best COLLEGE basketball team in the nation.

I'm not sure we have the best team in the ACC.

JNort
11-07-2018, 05:28 PM
Honestly? No, not really.



And we have too many posters who just reflexively scoff at these kinds of questions without really thinking about it. We're currently projected to have three top-5 picks. If those guys do actually go that high in the draft, and if they actually pan out into All-Star caliber players the NBA, it's perfectly reasonable to state that we might have more overall talent than at least one NBA team (even though, as you say, our talent would be MUCH less deep than even the worst NBA team).

Those are two big ifs... but it's not unthinkable that they both turn out to be true. In fact, as DukeTrinity11 pointed out, it's arguably already happened with the 2010 Kentucky team.

1) That's not what's happening at all. Jim is correct on this.

2) That full team wouldn't have a shot against an NBA opponent. No depth, no shooting and of course lack of coaching.

BandAlum83
11-07-2018, 05:31 PM
I think it is plausible that in 5 years, were an NBA team to have our top three guys as a core to their team, they would be off to a good start at having a very good team.

phaedrus
11-07-2018, 06:06 PM
I'm not reflexively scoffing at it. I'm scoffing at it after reflection.

The key word here is "team." An NBA team has 15 players, 12 active for any particular game. The idea that 2019 Duke or 2010 Kentucky or any other college team has talent even remotely equal to an NBA team 12 deep or 15 deep is scoff-worthy.

I don't think a match-up between Future Duke and Future Cavaliers is going to come down to who is better at spots 10-15. Coach K is only going 7-deep in this winner-take-all exhibition. I'll take the team with the three NBA All-Stars, the solid backup point guard, and the 2-3 marginal NBA players over whomever the Cavaliers are trotting out in 2028.

DukeTrinity11
11-07-2018, 06:17 PM
I'm not sure we have the best team in the ACC.

UVA will need to score 80 on Duke to have a chance at beating us. I don't believe they can if we play defense like we did last night (when the game was still in contention).

jimsumner
11-07-2018, 06:29 PM
I don't think a match-up between Future Duke and Future Cavaliers is going to come down to who is better at spots 10-15. Coach K is only going 7-deep in this winner-take-all exhibition. I'll take the team with the three NBA All-Stars, the solid backup point guard, and the 2-3 marginal NBA players over whomever the Cavaliers are trotting out in 2028.

NBA games are 48 minutes long, with a 24-second shot clock. Depth wins NBA games. Seven-player rotations do not.

Remember the original premise. Better team. Inferior teams can beat a superior team on occasion. Was NC State a better team than Duke in 2017?

But put this projected Duke-NBA team in an 82-game NBA season and they finish last.

Duke won an NCAA championship four seasons ago with a talent-laden roster. Not one player on that team is currently starting in the NBA.

Seven players from Duke's 2010 NCAA title team later played in the NBA.

Mason Plumlee is the only one to ever average double-figures in points for a season, one time, 10.4 ppg.

It's harder than it looks.

Kyle Singler, Nolan Smith, Trajan Langdon, Shelden Williams, Mark Alarie. Truly great college players. All had pretty undistinguished NBA careers. Danny Ferry was two-time ACC POY and national POY. He averaged 7.0 points per game in the NBA. Chris Carrawell was ACC POY and he couldn't make an NBA roster. Neither could Jon Scheyer.

NBA players are really good, even at the end of the bench. The idea that Javin DeLaurier or Jack White will be part of a seven-player NBA rotation that wins games against other NBA teams strains credulity.


IMO.

Wander
11-07-2018, 06:31 PM
2) That full team wouldn't have a shot against an NBA opponent. No depth, no shooting and of course lack of coaching.

A team of two NBA all-stars and three other NBA players wouldn't even "have a shot" against the 1-9 Cleveland Cavaliers? Come on.

niveklaen
11-07-2018, 06:43 PM
No. Any GM who put together this roster for an nba team would be fired.

uh_no
11-07-2018, 07:01 PM
A team of two NBA all-stars and three other NBA players wouldn't even "have a shot" against the 1-9 Cleveland Cavaliers? Come on.

How many players on the 1-9 cleveland cavaliers are NBA players?

all of them.

Assuming two of the players on this duke team will be all stars is, all things considered, still a long shot.

Wander
11-07-2018, 07:09 PM
How many players on the 1-9 cleveland cavaliers are NBA players?

all of them.

Assuming two of the players on this duke team will be all stars is, all things considered, still a long shot.

The comment referenced the Kentucky team, as the players are now. A lineup of John Wall, Demarcus Cousins, and 3 other NBA players would absolutely "have a shot" at beating Cleveland. I don't see how that's even a controversial statement.

NSDukeFan
11-07-2018, 07:13 PM
I expect Cousins would have a tough time playing 48 minutes right now. 😀

ChillinDuke
11-07-2018, 07:21 PM
The comment referenced the Kentucky team, as the players are now. A lineup of John Wall, Demarcus Cousins, and 3 other NBA players would absolutely "have a shot" at beating Cleveland. I don't see how that's even a controversial statement.

Maybe because a team of John Wall, Bradley Beal, and 10 other actual, breathing NBA players is struggling to beat anyone right now.

The players not named Beal and Wall matter more than some are giving credit. A future Jordan Goldwire as 9th man is not going to even remotely hold against Austin Rivers. Torched. Every single time.

- Chillin

SupaDave
11-07-2018, 08:58 PM
Cause I can't resist...

Just to play Devil's advocate (excuse the pun)...

The DREAM TEAM DID lose to a team full of college players. The dream team. THE DREAM TEAM. To a team with a Duke point guard and a Duke forward at that.

https://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/09/the-dream-teams-very-bad-day/ (just for fun - check out who was also at the game...)

Give me a poorly coached team. One say, with a player that likes to go one on one often, and since I abhor most things Jordan - give me two wins off any team he's associated with. In a NBA style game, even Justin Robinson becomes an asset b/c he's long and can shoot the three (can you say Marcus Camby? Cause he's basically a REALLY poor man's Camby right at this moment).

And to be honest, we have a better chance today than we would have in 5 years (cause in 5 years, sure, if they're all NBA players, even the crappy Knicks win once in while). Game styles change. Contracts happen. You snitch on your teammate and no-one passes you the ball. Hell - you might even pull a gun on your teammate during a dice game - cause that's what all good teammates do right?

Hey - I get it - they are ALL NBA players. But what some of you don't get that I do is that NBA players will pack it in - EASY. Sometimes they just want to finish the west coast swing, go to the club, and have a steak. Some players even play high/drunk as a kite (paging JR Smith).

So let's not forget - that more than just skills come into play when it comes to competition. The young kids would have the advantage in the sense that they don't have children, wives, girlfriends, mortgages, seven cars, two agents, three managers, 4 cell phones, 6 club appearances, bumped into a Kardashaian by mistake, 12 photoshoots, 5 flights, and perhaps even a coach they hate.

Always remember - bc they are NBA players, that doesn't make them an NBA TEAM.

jimsumner
11-07-2018, 09:05 PM
Cause I can't resist...

Just to play Devil's advocate (excuse the pun)...

The DREAM TEAM DID lose to a team full of college players. The dream team. THE DREAM TEAM. To a team with a Duke point guard and a Duke forward at that.

https://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/09/the-dream-teams-very-bad-day/ (just for fun - check out who was also at the game...)

Give me a poorly coached team. One say, with a player that likes to go one on one often, and since I abhor most things Jordan - give me two wins off any team he's associated with. In a NBA style game, even Justin Robinson becomes an asset b/c he's long and can shoot the three (can you say Marcus Camby? Cause he's basically a REALLY poor man's Camby right at this moment).

And to be honest, we have a better chance today than we would have in 5 years (cause in 5 years, sure, if they're all NBA players, even the crappy Knicks win once in while). Game styles change. Contracts happen. You snitch on your teammate and no-one passes you the ball. Hell - you might even pull a gun on your teammate during a dice game - cause that's what all good teammates do right?

Hey - I get it - they are ALL NBA players. But what some of you don't get that I do is that NBA players will pack it in - EASY. Sometimes they just want to finish the west coast swing, go to the club, and have a steak. Some players even play high/drunk as a kite (paging JR Smith).

So let's not forget - that more than just skills come into play when it comes to competition. The young kids would have the advantage in the sense that they don't have children, wives, girlfriends, mortgages, seven cars, two agents, three managers, 4 cell phones, 6 club appearances, bumped into a Kardashaian by mistake, 12 photoshoots, 5 flights, and perhaps even a coach they hate.

Always remember - bc they are NBA players, that doesn't make them an NBA TEAM.

I thought last year's thread comparing Jordan Goldwire to Frank Mason was untouchable. But Justin Robinson and Marcus Camby may actually top that.

JasonEvans
11-08-2018, 08:37 AM
In a NBA style game, even Justin Robinson becomes an asset b/c he's long and can shoot the three (can you say Marcus Camby? Cause he's basically a REALLY poor man's Camby right at this moment).

Love me some SupaDave...
Love me some JRob...
But...

JRob and Marcus Camby are both human beings who are considerably taller than the general population.

Beyond that, there is very, very little about them that could be considered similar.

JasonEvans
11-08-2018, 08:46 AM
This thread reminds me of a story a friend told me a couple years ago.

I know a guy who lives in New York who happened to be at an event with Jim Boeheim a while back. This was a few years ago when Jimmy B was working with K on Team USA. Anyway, the guy I know asked Boeheim about the difference in coaching college and pro players. Jimmy B said:

"With the NBA players, you go to teach them something and you tell it to them once and then they instantly do it. Quite often they do it even better than you had shown them. With college kids, you tell them something and, if you are lucky, they might be able to do it with a moderate degree of competence after three or four months of practice."

HereBeforeCoachK
11-08-2018, 08:50 AM
This thread reminds me of a story a friend told me a couple years ago.

I know a guy who lives in New York who happened to be at an event with Jim Boeheim a while back. This was a few years ago when Jimmy B was working with K on Team USA. Anyway, the guy I know asked Boeheim about the difference in coaching college and pro players. Jimmy B said:

"With the NBA players, you go to teach them something and you tell it to them once and then they instantly do it. Quite often they do it even better than you had shown them. With college kids, you tell them something and, if you are lucky, they might be able to do it with a moderate degree of competence after three or four months of practice."

Well let's set the scene properly here....Jimmy B only worked with Dream Team caliber NBA players - in the Olympics - he wasn't coaching a practice the day before Brooklyn at Charlotte or what have you.

jv001
11-08-2018, 09:27 AM
I don't know if Coach K will still be coaching five years from now but if he is, I'll take him over some of the NBA coaches any day. But the answer is no and I agree with Jason, the fans of other teams on this board are probably laughing their heads off right about now. Great win against a good team but a Conference Championship or much less an NCAAT Championship is far from certain. GoDuke!

SupaDave
11-08-2018, 09:42 AM
Love me some SupaDave...
Love me some JRob...
But...

JRob and Marcus Camby are both human beings who are considerably taller than the general population.

Beyond that, there is very, very little about them that could be considered similar.

Come on now! J Rob has some talent. Notice I said REALLY poor man's. Camby was basically a NBA All-star but it's J Robs shot blocking ability that makes me even see a hint of Camby in him. Give him 6 fouls and let him rip!! Besides, I think he's gonna be important for us next year - we're gonna lose a lot of talent.

Billy Dat
11-08-2018, 10:23 AM
So let's not forget - that more than just skills come into play when it comes to competition. The young kids would have the advantage in the sense that they don't have children, wives, girlfriends, mortgages, seven cars, two agents, three managers, 4 cell phones, 6 club appearances, bumped into a Kardashaian by mistake, 12 photoshoots, 5 flights, and perhaps even a coach they hate.

Aside from my nomination for this as post of the year, I want to add...

They may also be primarily concerned with getting in a locker room or charter flight brawl with that teammate who owes them $50,000 from a Boure/Booray game and is a little too late on that payment.

Also, considering the calculated lives being lived by Kim/Khloe/Kourtney/Kris/Kendall/Kylie...can any "bump" into a Kardashian be considered a mistake? That's what the player thinks it is, but days of planning by the sisters/mother went into that happy accident. Also, shall we define "bump", or are we venturing into NSFW territory?

OldPhiKap
11-08-2018, 10:25 AM
Aside from my nomination for this as post of the year, I want to add...

They may also be primarily concerned with getting in a locker room or charter flight brawl with that teammate who owes them $50,000 from a Boure/Booray game and is a little too late on that payment.

"What's the name of my girlfriend in Phoenix?"

"Wait -- are we going to Phoenix next or Houston?'

Troublemaker
11-08-2018, 10:51 AM
UVA will need to score 80 on Duke to have a chance at beating us. I don't believe they can if we play defense like we did last night (when the game was still in contention).

Duke's not going to score 80 on UVA. It's easier to slow the game down than it is to speed the game up.

While we've controlled the head to head with UVA during the Tony Bennett era (although obviously we lost last season [dangit Duval, don't throw that pass]), we usually beat them by scoring in the 60s. Even just getting to 70 would be an excellent accomplishment. 80 seems out of reach to me.

cato
11-08-2018, 11:14 AM
Come on now! J Rob has some talent. Notice I said REALLY poor man's. Camby was basically a NBA All-star but it's J Robs shot blocking ability that makes me even see a hint of Camby in him. Give him 6 fouls and let him rip!! Besides, I think he's gonna be important for us next year - we're gonna lose a lot of talent.

I am very happy that Robinson is part of the program. But if he is a key rotation player, ruh roh.

brlftz
11-08-2018, 11:58 AM
I just want to say that this whole thread is hilarious. When it first popped up I thought it would generate maybe two "LOL NO"s and then die. But here we are on page 4 debating how much like Marcus Camby Justin Robinson is. This is amazing and awesome.

SupaDave
11-08-2018, 12:18 PM
I am very happy that Robinson is part of the program. But if he is a key rotation player, ruh roh.

Very likely the 8th man off the bench next year. But where he will be most valuable is his leadership and knowledge of the program four years in. I can see him coming off the bench to play with the second team in a David McClure role. (bc this thread isn't complete without a McClure reference)

jimsumner
11-08-2018, 12:26 PM
I just want to say that this whole thread is hilarious. When it first popped up I thought it would generate maybe two "LOL NO"s and then die. But here we are on page 4 debating how much like Marcus Camby Justin Robinson is. This is amazing and awesome.

But, but, Javin DeLaurier sort of looks like Kevin Durant from a distance, if you don't squint too hard. And Jack White is the Aussie Larry Bird. And Antonio Vrankovic is the poor-man's Marc Gasol. And don't get me started on Jordan Goldwire's uncanny resemblance to Chris Paul. Pretty soon he'll be doing really bad insurance commercials.

But seriously. We've anointed teenagers as future NBA all-stars after one game.

Could happen. Maybe even likely. But no sure thing. Remember how good Jabari Parker looked early in his only season at Duke? Jahlil Okafor?

So many things can happen in five years and not all of then are good.

BLPOG
11-08-2018, 12:32 PM
Cause I can't resist...

Just to play Devil's advocate (excuse the pun)...

The DREAM TEAM DID lose to a team full of college players. The dream team. THE DREAM TEAM. To a team with a Duke point guard and a Duke forward at that.

https://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/09/the-dream-teams-very-bad-day/ (just for fun - check out who was also at the game...).

but then, according to Coach K,


[Daly] threw the game.

OldPhiKap
11-08-2018, 12:35 PM
but then, according to Coach K,

I’ve heard and seen that before, but was wondering HOW he managed that without the pro players in on it.

Wander
11-08-2018, 12:56 PM
But seriously. We've anointed teenagers as future NBA all-stars after one game.

I'm just going to say it one more time, to prevent future snarky comments referencing my posts when we lose to Indiana or San Diego State or some middling ACC team later:

All my comments about Duke being able to win an NBA game or two in an 82 game season and arguably being better-in-5-years-in-a-one-game-situation than bad NBA teams only apply IF we end up being the best team in the country and IF our top three guys end up meeting their current individual expectations in the NBA. I'm fully aware that these two things may not happen, and are perhaps unlikely to happen. But they are possible.

phaedrus
11-08-2018, 01:22 PM
But seriously. We've anointed teenagers as future NBA all-stars after one game.

Could happen. Maybe even likely. But no sure thing. Remember how good Jabari Parker looked early in his only season at Duke? Jahlil Okafor?

So many things can happen in five years and not all of then are good.

This whole hopefully fun exercise is about (at least in large part) projecting the NBA trajectory of three of the most talented recruits we've had. Each is expected to be a top-5 pick in the 2019 NBA draft. We did not anoint them NBA all-stars. The NBA cognoscenti think they are very strong prospects to be NBA all-stars.

Of course, we could play out this exercise on the worst-case assumption that all of them will be NBA busts. But that wouldn't be very enjoyable.

Billy Dat
11-08-2018, 01:26 PM
I’ve heard and seen that before, but was wondering HOW he managed that without the pro players in on it.

He kept MJ out of the game.

OldPhiKap
11-08-2018, 01:26 PM
I'm not sure who will resurrect this thread after our first loss that freaks out the board, but it won't be me.

JNort
11-08-2018, 05:29 PM
Cause I can't resist...

Just to play Devil's advocate (excuse the pun)...

The DREAM TEAM DID lose to a team full of college players. The dream team. THE DREAM TEAM. To a team with a Duke point guard and a Duke forward at that.

https://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/09/the-dream-teams-very-bad-day/ (just for fun - check out who was also at the game...)

Give me a poorly coached team. One say, with a player that likes to go one on one often, and since I abhor most things Jordan - give me two wins off any team he's associated with. In a NBA style game, even Justin Robinson becomes an asset b/c he's long and can shoot the three (can you say Marcus Camby? Cause he's basically a REALLY poor man's Camby right at this moment).

And to be honest, we have a better chance today than we would have in 5 years (cause in 5 years, sure, if they're all NBA players, even the crappy Knicks win once in while). Game styles change. Contracts happen. You snitch on your teammate and no-one passes you the ball. Hell - you might even pull a gun on your teammate during a dice game - cause that's what all good teammates do right?

Hey - I get it - they are ALL NBA players. But what some of you don't get that I do is that NBA players will pack it in - EASY. Sometimes they just want to finish the west coast swing, go to the club, and have a steak. Some players even play high/drunk as a kite (paging JR Smith).

So let's not forget - that more than just skills come into play when it comes to competition. The young kids would have the advantage in the sense that they don't have children, wives, girlfriends, mortgages, seven cars, two agents, three managers, 4 cell phones, 6 club appearances, bumped into a Kardashaian by mistake, 12 photoshoots, 5 flights, and perhaps even a coach they hate.

Always remember - bc they are NBA players, that doesn't make them an NBA TEAM.
I sincerely hope that was all said tongue in cheek because that whole section was a mess.

HereBeforeCoachK
11-08-2018, 05:41 PM
Duke's not going to score 80 on UVA. It's easier to slow the game down than it is to speed the game up.

While we've controlled the head to head with UVA during the Tony Bennett era (although obviously we lost last season [dangit Duval, don't throw that pass]), we usually beat them by scoring in the 60s. Even just getting to 70 would be an excellent accomplishment. 80 seems out of reach to me.

I think they will get 80 on UVa. I think UVa will play a little faster anyway, and I don't know that they can impose their will on this group - though I agree it's normally easier to slow a game down than speed it up. But not always. (think Arkansas and Nolan Richardson's "40 min of hell"

OldPhiKap
11-08-2018, 05:49 PM
I don’t think UVA gave up 80 points to anyone last year.

jimsumner
11-08-2018, 06:01 PM
This whole hopefully fun exercise is about (at least in large part) projecting the NBA trajectory of three of the most talented recruits we've had. Each is expected to be a top-5 pick in the 2019 NBA draft. We did not anoint them NBA all-stars. The NBA cognoscenti think they are very strong prospects to be NBA all-stars.

Of course, we could play out this exercise on the worst-case assumption that all of them will be NBA busts. But that wouldn't be very enjoyable.

But these same NBA cognoscenti evidently thought Austin Rivers and Jabari Parker and Jahlil Okafor were strong prospects to be NBA all-stars. And Anthony Bennett. And Michael Olowakandi. And Kwame Brown. And Darko Milicic.

And I go on and on and on. But I'm belaboring the point well past the point of diminishing returns.

But if folks want to have fun imaging a world where Justin Robinson would be an asset in a game against a legit NBA team, then have at it.

Just don't expect me to take it seriously.

cato
11-08-2018, 06:04 PM
I don’t think UVA gave up 80 points to anyone last year.

Just checked, and they didn’t even give up 70 points to anyone last year — until giving up 74 to UMBC.

Troublemaker
11-08-2018, 06:38 PM
I think they will get 80 on UVa. I think UVa will play a little faster anyway, and I don't know that they can impose their will on this group - though I agree it's normally easier to slow a game down than speed it up. But not always. (think Arkansas and Nolan Richardson's "40 min of hell"

You would think if they were going to make this change, it would show up in their season opener against a scrub team like Towson. But instead, UVA played at a pace that would've been their 3rd-slowest last season.

JasonEvans
11-09-2018, 09:46 AM
On ESPN's Get Up (Greenie's version of First Take) this morning, they asked the Westgate Sports Book to give them odds on the best college team versus the worst pro team. The Westgate said:

In football, Alabama would be a 28.5 point underdog to the Buffalo Bills
In hoops, Duke would be a 22.5 underdog to the Cleveland Cavs

Several of the hot take experts on the show seemed to think that Duke could maybe compete with the Cavs, which I think is insane, but they didn't discuss it all that much because they just started talking about how much of a freak Zion is and it distracted them from actually having an even moderately substantive discussion. They then jumped to the football thing and said there is no way current 19 and 20 year old college kids could play against NFL pros. They started talking about the whole "fast forward five years" suggestion from the beginning of this thread and most seemed to think that Alabama in 5 years would crush the pathetic Bills.

-Jason "I would bet large, large sums of money on the Cavs -22.5 against Duke right now" Evans

Billy Dat
11-09-2018, 09:56 AM
It is really a remarkable perfect storm of hype happening right now. Duke, in its polarizing way, is always going to be big news. The fact that Duke got THE top 3 recruits is a layer of highly combustible kindling. But, Zion is some kind of concentrated gasoline compound the likes of which I have never seen, in terms of how he has the universe trying to invent new language to describe their awe. After the game, I actually thought RJ would be as big a story. Forget it. It's ZION ZION ZION. I have never seen anything like it, and, as Duke fans, we have seen a lot in terms of positive and negative media attention. There was so much hype before the game and for the team, the freshman, and Zion, in particular, to have not only delivered, but potentially over-delivered, on that stage, has resulted in a media frenzy the likes of which we may never see again. It's really crazy.

OldPhiKap
11-09-2018, 09:56 AM
-Jason "I would bet large, large sums of money on the Cavs -22.5 against Duke right now" Evans

Yup.


48 minutes.

Different three-point line.

Professionally conditioned athletes against 18 year-olds just working up to college stamina requirements.

A bench full of players still good enough to make a pro squad.



We have a ton of talent, but the only way we cover that line is if the Cavs truly play their entire squad at the end and rest their starters. Starters v. starters, the fourth quarter alone would be a 20-point swing in favor of the professionals.

And to be clear -- I think we have an incredible college team!!!

OldPhiKap
11-09-2018, 10:18 AM
And thought of too late to edit:

shorter shot clock which requires a quicker offensive set, and more possessions requiring a bunch more running.


I guess for the bet, the spread would obviously depend on whether we are using pro rules or college. I am assuming pro.

JasonEvans
11-09-2018, 10:29 AM
And thought of too late to edit:

shorter shot clock which requires a quicker offensive set, and more possessions requiring a bunch more running.

I spoke to Marvin Bagley a couple days ago (pod preview spoiler!!) and he said the biggest difference in the college and pro games is the speed and pace of the game.

JasonEvans
11-09-2018, 02:58 PM
Here is yet another point (https://uproxx.com/dimemag/duke-blue-devils-nba-matchup-cleveland-cavaliers-hypothetical-zion-williamson/2/) about the hypothetical Duke vs Cleveland matchup:


Cavaliers guard Collin Sexton has been, by any measure, a below-average NBA player to this very early point in his professional career. Sexton may have a bright future but, after a full college season as a high-end prospect, a full summer of development and a full NBA training camp, he is an actively harmful NBA player on most nights. In contrast, Sexton would have likely been the preseason national player of the year if he returned to college for a second season and, at the very least, would present a huge advantage for the Cavs against Tre Jones… while being one of the bottom-tier players in Cleveland’s rotation.

Yup, Cleveland's 10th best player would be leaps and bounds better than Duke's 4th best player.

Wander
11-09-2018, 03:11 PM
Yup, Cleveland's 10th best player would be leaps and bounds better than Duke's 4th best player.

Who's better – Semi Ojeleye (rotation player on a good NBA team last year) or Daniel Coursey (couldn't make it in the G league)?

OldPhiKap
11-09-2018, 03:24 PM
Who's better – Semi Ojeleye (rotation player on a good NBA team last year) or Daniel Coursey (couldn't make it in the G league)?

More importantly -- quien es mas macho?

Bluedog
11-09-2018, 03:25 PM
Who's better – Semi Ojeleye (rotation player on a good NBA team last year) or Daniel Coursey (couldn't make it in the G league)?

Yep, Semi Ojeleye couldn't crack the starting lineup at Duke 3 years ago. He's gotten way more minutes in the NBA than at Duke.

So, the OP's initial premise is not THAT ridiculous. And the OP said 5 years, not 3. Saying Duke NOW could compete with an NBA team NOW is ridiculous, though. Even Jason said that sportswriting crew thinks Alabama players in 5 years would be able to beat the Buffalo Bills of today. The comparison is not about competing now, it's about the POTENTIAL and collection of talent on a given squad.

DukeTrinity11
11-09-2018, 03:40 PM
Here is yet another point (https://uproxx.com/dimemag/duke-blue-devils-nba-matchup-cleveland-cavaliers-hypothetical-zion-williamson/2/) about the hypothetical Duke vs Cleveland matchup:



Yup, Cleveland's 10th best player would be leaps and bounds better than Duke's 4th best player.

It's a star driven league though Jason so I'm less concerned with how the 8th guy on Duke matches up with the 8th guy on the Cavs. 2 of our big 3 would be on the court at all times.

In 5 years, I expect Reddish to be at least as good as Devin Booker, Barrett to be as good as DeRozan, Zion to be as impactful as Draymond and Tre Jones should be a facsimile of modern day Tyus (serviceable backup PG).

In this scenario, I think the talent differential between our top end players and the Cavs best players now that Love is injured (Cedi Osman? Hood?) would make this is a competitive game despite our bench not having a chance against theirs.

Now if Bolden can be as impactful as Mason Plumlee in the NBA in 5 years, watch out!

DukeTrinity11
11-09-2018, 03:44 PM
Yep, Semi Ojeleye couldn't crack the starting lineup at Duke 3 years ago. He's gotten way more minutes in the NBA than at Duke.

So, the OP's initial premise is not THAT ridiculous. And the OP said 5 years, not 3. Saying Duke NOW could compete with an NBA team NOW is ridiculous, though. Even Jason said that sportswriting crew thinks Alabama players in 5 years would be able to beat the Buffalo Bills of today. The comparison is not about competing now, it's about the POTENTIAL and collection of talent on a given squad.

Bingo and the most reputable draft site has all 3 of Zion, Cam and Barrett as Tier or Tier 2 prospects with Tre Jones as Tier 5 so it looks like a lot of the scouts and experts expect them to be surefire NBA starters (or at least a backup in the case of Tre).

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/11/03/mike-gribanovs-2019-draft-preseason-big-board/

-jk
11-11-2018, 05:20 PM
Bueller?

(Ok, enough...)

-jk

JasonEvans
11-12-2018, 12:18 AM
Bueller?

(Ok, enough...)

-jk

Yeah, I been saying "can we slow our roll a bit?" for several days on this hype train.

So, what is the line for the Cleveland Cavs vs Army game?

johnb
11-12-2018, 09:05 AM
I say tomato. You say partridge.

Leaving aside the fact that no one wants actual players to read this thread, we're talking about 2 different things. NO ONE has implied that this team could start playing an NBA schedule right now. The question is whether this team could be competitive if transported into November 2023.

I can't read the future, but I can read the past.

We've never had a team where three guys are being discussed as top 3 picks, but we've had very talented teams before.

How would this team have done 5 years after leaving Duke?
Williams, Battier, Boozer, Dunleavy, Boozer, Duhon, James, Horvath, Sanders.

Obviously, there isn't the depth for a whole season, and the team would need to wrap Mr Williams in bubble wrap, but that team would have been competitive with some NBA teams for a few games (especially if the science fiction rules allow for picking up actual (and easily accessible) NBA players to round out the bench).

Playing Army close has nothing to do with this argument--we're talking 2023, not this year.

If you want to talk undefeated this year, I'd be on the other side (ain't no way, unless you want to talk undefeated through January 1, 2019). I'm not even sure we should be the favorites for the conference...

Billy Dat
11-12-2018, 09:33 AM
At the risk of increasing the pulse of everyone who thinks this thread is both a huge jinx and displays unappealing hubris to the fans from other teams (how low have we sunk?), I am doubling down that this team could not only beat some NBA teams, but beat them quite handily.

Which teams?...let me tell you.

Boston Celtics
Denver Nuggets

I am not talking about Jayson Tatum, Uncle Drew, Jamal Murray and MPII. I am talking about Dillard Crocker, Al Guokas and Chuck Cooper.

Both of these squads finished at the bottom of their divisions in the 1949-50 inaugural NBA season. I am not sure the game could even be played as I expect most of the players would either flee or faint upon watching the "lay-up" line.

Matches
11-12-2018, 09:42 AM
I am doubling down that this team could not only beat some NBA teams, but beat them quite handily.

Which teams?...let me tell you.

Boston Celtics
Denver Nuggets

I am not talking about Jayson Tatum, Uncle Drew, Jamal Murray and MPII. I am talking about Dillard Crocker, Al Guokas and Chuck Cooper.

Both of these squads finished at the bottom of their divisions in the 1949-50 inaugural NBA season. I am not sure the game could even be played as I expect most of the players would either flee or faint upon watching the "lay-up" line.

Yea, those guys are probably pretty old by now. I would think their conditioning would fail over a full game. They might be able to hang early but 2018-19 Duke would wear them down eventually.

UNLESS the old guys had an Infinity Stone. Or if Nate James switched sides and suited up for the oldsters.

ChillinDuke
11-12-2018, 09:42 AM
Instead of locking this thread, could we just nuke it? Is that an option available to the mods?

- Chillin

dukelifer
11-12-2018, 09:46 AM
Instead of locking this thread, could we just nuke it? Is that an option available to the mods?

- Chillin

Put it on ice and only release with a dominating NC win.

JasonEvans
11-12-2018, 10:29 AM
How would this team have done 5 years after leaving Duke?
Williams, Battier, Boozer, Dunleavy, Boozer, Duhon, James, Horvath, Sanders.

Obviously, there isn't the depth for a whole season, and the team would need to wrap Mr Williams in bubble wrap, but that team would have been competitive with some NBA teams for a few games (especially if the science fiction rules allow for picking up actual (and easily accessible) NBA players to round out the bench).

No fair! Two Boozers! Does one of them stay in Cleveland and the other become a free agent?

No, you do not get to "round out the bench" with legit NBA players. That is the crux of this argument. Of course the top few players on the roster (today, in 2001, and most years under K) are good enough to be high-end NBA players. That is what being at Duke is all about these days. The reason Duke Team 20xx+5 cannot compete is not because of the top 3 or 4 guys on the roster. It is because guys 5-12 are generally waaaaaay short of being anywhere close to NBA caliber. While Duke 20xx+5 might compete for part of the game, the moment we went to the bench (which you must do in a 48-minute NBA game) Duke gets the doors blown off.

That said, the 2001 bench comes sorta close to being NBA competitive. Horvath played on some NBA summer league teams and was a very good player in the NZ pro league, so while he is not a NBA quality player, he is probably not completely out of his league. Nate also played some NBA Summer League and Casey Sanders had a brief stint in the CBA before playing overseas for a while. Maybe they wouldn't have been totally outclassed.

Ahhh, who am I kidding? There is no backcourt depth at all on that team in terms of guys who could hope to compete at a NBA level.

-Jason "here's a thought exercise... would the 2001+5 team be allowed to include redshirt Dahntay Jones? Cause having that 6th legit NBA player makes a real difference" Evans

UrinalCake
11-12-2018, 10:34 AM
So, what I’ve gathered from the internet over the past week is that Duke would beat the Cleveland Cavaliers but not the Virginia Cavaliers, and that we have four NBA starters who are not as good as anyone on the Fab 5. Makes perfect sense.

Matches
11-12-2018, 10:37 AM
-Jason "here's a thought exercise... would the 2001+5 team be allowed to include redshirt Dahntay Jones? Cause having that 6th legit NBA player makes a real difference" Evans

Somehow it seems like cheating to include BOTH Jones (who of course didn't play a minute in 2001) AND J. Williams, who wasn't playing at all 5 years later. Feels like piecing together a team that never actually existed.

That 2001 team was mega-talented though. The 2004 team was pretty loaded too.

johnb
11-12-2018, 10:55 AM
No fair! Two Boozers! Does one of them stay in Cleveland and the other become a free agent?



Wait a minute, we can't duplicate players on this team?

I was counting on some of our guys players subbing for themselves, being used for trades, and, most importantly, being able to play a couple of positions at the same time--which would be helpful not just in the concentration of talent but because they could then instantaneously communicate to their alter-self, so that when RJ1 pulls down a long defensive rebound, he'd also have an excellent idea where RJ2 and RJ3 are going to be on the fast break. Etc.

If we're going to get all persnickety about rules in the alternative universe, then I'm taking my 4-dimensional marbles and going home.

Wander
11-12-2018, 11:55 AM
While Duke 20xx+5 might compete for part of the game, the moment we went to the bench (which you must do in a 48-minute NBA game) Duke gets the doors blown off.


You never answered my question, so I'm going to ask it again: who's better between Semi Ojeleye and Daniel Coursey?

House P
11-12-2018, 12:08 PM
No, you do not get to "round out the bench" with legit NBA players. That is the crux of this argument. Of course the top few players on the roster (today, in 2001, and most years under K) are good enough to be high-end NBA players. That is what being at Duke is all about these days. The reason Duke Team 20xx+5 cannot compete is not because of the top 3 or 4 guys on the roster. It is because guys 5-12 are generally waaaaaay short of being anywhere close to NBA caliber. While Duke 20xx+5 might compete for part of the game, the moment we went to the bench (which you must do in a 48-minute NBA game) Duke gets the doors blown off.

That said, the 2001 bench comes sorta close to being NBA competitive. Horvath played on some NBA summer league teams and was a very good player in the NZ pro league, so while he is not a NBA quality player, he is probably not completely out of his league. Nate also played some NBA Summer League and Casey Sanders had a brief stint in the CBA before playing overseas for a while. Maybe they wouldn't have been totally outclassed.



At the risk of annoying a bunch of folks who want to see this thread disappear, I wonder what you would say if the comparison was limited to the starting five of a particular Duke team (projected ahead 5-7 years) vs the starting five of a bad NBA team.

For example, here is a comparison of the starting 5 for the 2005-06 Trailblazers vs the 5 best NBA players from Duke's 2000-01 team. The "05/06 Rank" column indicates how the player ranked vs the rest of the NBA in 2005-06 with respect to the advanced metric "Value over replacement player (https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm.html#vorp)".



Duke
05/06 Rank
Portland
05/06 Rank


Chris Duhon
82
Steve Blake
210


Jay Williams
DNP
Juan Dixon
415


Mike Dunleavy
111
Viktor Khryapa
169


Shane Battier
19
Zach Randolph
430


Carlos Boozer
104*
Joel Przybilla
119



If Jay Williams had managed to stay healthy, I think Duke's starting lineup could have held their own against the Trailblazer's starting lineup in 2005-06.

*Carlos only played 33 games in 2005-06. He was an all star in the following two seasons, so I strongly suspect that any NBA GM would have taken Carlos Boozer over Joel Przybilla.

phaedrus
11-12-2018, 12:18 PM
That is what being at Duke is all about these days. The reason Duke Team 20xx+5 cannot compete is not because of the top 3 or 4 guys on the roster. It is because guys 5-12 are generally waaaaaay short of being anywhere close to NBA caliber.

It will be somewhat surprising if only 4 players from the current roster play in the NBA, let alone not fall "waaaay short" of coming anywhere close to an NBA roster. Most of our recent teams have had 6 or more players see an NBA roster at some point, more if you count G-League participation (which, to me, suggests something closer than "waaaaay short" of NBA calibre).

The 2015 team had 10 such players. Marshall Plumlee, Shavlik Randolph, Semi Ojeleye, and Michael Gbinije have played in the NBA. The latter three left because they weren't good enough to get playing time at Duke. Would I want my favorite NBA team to count on those guys for solid minutes in the playoffs? Probably not. But I think you're selling the futures of our bench players waaaaaay short. I'd hate to see none of Baker, Bolden, Delaurier, O'Connell, or White even get a shot in the G-League. (I do not think Justin Robinson merits Marcus Camby comparisons.) And hopefully they do much better than that.

I also think that the difference between an NBA All-Star and the average NBA player is much bigger than the difference between the average NBA player and the guys scraping by at the fringes of the league (i.e. a G-League player). That's why having the top-tier talent is more important than depth in this hypothetical, purely fantastical discussion.

OldPhiKap
11-12-2018, 01:20 PM
Duke would be a 22.5 point underdog to the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Duke is a 27.5 point underdog to Clemson on Saturday.

Ergo, Clemson would beat the Cleveland Cavaliers by 5.

curtis325
11-12-2018, 01:25 PM
This Duke team could easily defeat any NBA team, but would probably have to go into overtime against a team of mini-Ditkas.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-12-2018, 02:13 PM
Pretty sure Mighty Mouse can beat up Superman.

jimsumner
11-12-2018, 03:10 PM
It will be somewhat surprising if only 4 players from the current roster play in the NBA, let alone not fall "waaaay short" of coming anywhere close to an NBA roster. Most of our recent teams have had 6 or more players see an NBA roster at some point, more if you count G-League participation (which, to me, suggests something closer than "waaaaay short" of NBA calibre).

The 2015 team had 10 such players. Marshall Plumlee, Shavlik Randolph, Semi Ojeleye, and Michael Gbinije have played in the NBA. The latter three left because they weren't good enough to get playing time at Duke. Would I want my favorite NBA team to count on those guys for solid minutes in the playoffs? Probably not. But I think you're selling the futures of our bench players waaaaaay short. I'd hate to see none of Baker, Bolden, Delaurier, O'Connell, or White even get a shot in the G-League. (I do not think Justin Robinson merits Marcus Camby comparisons.) And hopefully they do much better than that.

I also think that the difference between an NBA All-Star and the average NBA player is much bigger than the difference between the average NBA player and the guys scraping by at the fringes of the league (i.e. a G-League player). That's why having the top-tier talent is more important than depth in this hypothetical, purely fantastical discussion.

Okay, let's look at that 2015 team, four seasons down the road.

Jahlil Okafor-very good rookie season; barely holding on to a NBA roster spot right now.
Justise Winslow-nice complementary player. Career average of 7.6 ppg. Might get better. Might not.
Matt Jones-decent G-league player.
Quinn Cook-worked his way through the G-League. Looks like nice, career backup.
Tyus Jones-looks like nice career backup.
Amile Jefferson-great G-league player, still looking for NBA gig.
Semi Ojeleye-anybody see him ever starting in the NBA?
Grayson Allen-lots of DNP-Cds, as a rookie. Should get better. NBA starter? TBD.
Marshall Plumee-played 29 NBA games over two seasons.
Rasheed Sulaimon-G-league player.

So, that's our ten. Need some more. Sean Kelly and Nick Pagliuca were the two walk-ons. I'm sure they'd hold their own against NBA 11th men.

Put that team in the NBA for a full season and they might win five games. Might not.

And that's an NCAA title team we're talking about.

gus
11-12-2018, 05:48 PM
Pretty sure Mighty Mouse can beat up Superman.

You don't know nothing. Mighty Mouse is a cartoon. Superman is a real guy. No way a cartoon could beat up a real guy.

dukelifer
11-12-2018, 07:15 PM
Wait a minute, we can't duplicate players on this team?

I was counting on some of our guys players subbing for themselves, being used for trades, and, most importantly, being able to play a couple of positions at the same time--which would be helpful not just in the concentration of talent but because they could then instantaneously communicate to their alter-self, so that when RJ1 pulls down a long defensive rebound, he'd also have an excellent idea where RJ2 and RJ3 are going to be on the fast break. Etc.

If we're going to get all persnickety about rules in the alternative universe, then I'm taking my 4-dimensional marbles and going home.

Could five Zions beat five Grant Hills?

JNort
11-12-2018, 07:17 PM
Okay, let's look at that 2015 team, four seasons down the road.

Jahlil Okafor-very good rookie season; barely holding on to a NBA roster spot right now.
Justise Winslow-nice complementary player. Career average of 7.6 ppg. Might get better. Might not.
Matt Jones-decent G-league player.
Quinn Cook-worked his way through the G-League. Looks like nice, career backup.
Tyus Jones-looks like nice career backup.
Amile Jefferson-great G-league player, still looking for NBA gig.
Semi Ojeleye-anybody see him ever starting in the NBA?
Grayson Allen-lots of DNP-Cds, as a rookie. Should get better. NBA starter? TBD.
Marshall Plumee-played 29 NBA games over two seasons.
Rasheed Sulaimon-G-league player.

So, that's our ten. Need some more. Sean Kelly and Nick Pagliuca were the two walk-ons. I'm sure they'd hold their own against NBA 11th men.

Put that team in the NBA for a full season and they might win five games. Might not.

And that's an NCAA title team we're talking about.
If that team won a single game I'd be thrilled

OldPhiKap
11-12-2018, 07:27 PM
Okay, let's look at that 2015 team, four seasons down the road.

Jahlil Okafor-very good rookie season; barely holding on to a NBA roster spot right now.
Justise Winslow-nice complementary player. Career average of 7.6 ppg. Might get better. Might not.
Matt Jones-decent G-league player.
Quinn Cook-worked his way through the G-League. Looks like nice, career backup.
Tyus Jones-looks like nice career backup.
Amile Jefferson-great G-league player, still looking for NBA gig.
Semi Ojeleye-anybody see him ever starting in the NBA?
Grayson Allen-lots of DNP-Cds, as a rookie. Should get better. NBA starter? TBD.
Marshall Plumee-played 29 NBA games over two seasons.
Rasheed Sulaimon-G-league player.

So, that's our ten. Need some more. Sean Kelly and Nick Pagliuca were the two walk-ons. I'm sure they'd hold their own against NBA 11th men.

Put that team in the NBA for a full season and they might win five games. Might not.

And that's an NCAA title team we're talking about.

Yup. There is a lot to be proud of with that team. That is exceptional compared to the outcome of most college teams.

And it would get hammered trying to play a pro schedule.

Not a slam on those players, or Duke. There are great players all around the world, and a hundred college kids, who try to make the pro ranks each year. The difference between the NBA and NCAA is staggering. It just is.

KenTankerous
11-12-2018, 07:39 PM
Those are adult men, y'all. they play on an elite level.

They Are Grown Men.

duke4ever19
11-12-2018, 07:42 PM
Some people sitting next to me at the bar I watched this game at mentioned this to me and I thought it was an interesting thought experiment.

Obviously I'm not talking about this team as they are today but if you transport them 5 years in the future and they face the current Cavs or Hawks roster, how do you think they do?

I still think Duke would have the best 3 players on the floor with Cam, RJ and Zion but Trae/Sexton would be a massive upgrade over Tre Jones plus the Center position and bench would clearly go the NBA team's direction.

Thoughts? I know its one game and such hyperbole is probably unwarranted but we can't simply dismiss what we witnessed last night considering we have 5 NBA prospects at every single position on our starting lineup.

Okay, so I read your entire post and while I understand how your are qualifying your thought-experiment (the bolded portion), I think the wording of your question in the title thread is leading many to misinterpret what you actually mean. Perhaps it should be reworded so your actual question can get a fair hearing?

kAzE
11-12-2018, 07:51 PM
Semi Ojeleye-anybody see him ever starting in the NBA?

Not trying to nitpick you, because I totally agree with the spirit of everything you posted, but FWIW, Semi actually does occasionally start for the Boston Celtics, depending on the match up. He's usually deployed when Giannis Antetokounmpo is on the other team, as the guy tasked with slowing Giannis down.

He started their most recent regular season game against the Bucks (which the Celtics won), although Jaylen Brown sat out that game, and he also started games 5, 6, and 7 against them in last year's playoffs.

As for the premise of this thread, I agree it's laughable to think that any college team is actually better than any NBA team, but could we win 1 game in a 7 game series against the Cavs? I think its possible.

If a bunch of college kids could beat the Dream Team, Duke can get one game from the Cavs.

HereBeforeCoachK
11-13-2018, 02:33 PM
I think we need to define terms:

When I first saw the thread, I kinda chuckled and thought well, Duke may have 3 of the top 5 draft picks in the NBA at the end of the season - and there are probably zero teams who have 3 of the top 5 picks on their roster...so there's that. And again, the question was about talent, not depth, not team, not experience, not maturity...merely about raw physical talent. For example, do I think RJ Barrett and Zion are more naturally talented than James Harden? Yes. Do I think they could beat Harden TODAY? No. I guess it depends on what you mean by talent. I took it to mean natural ability for the most part).

I never thought, nor did I think anyone thought, that this was the same question as:
A: Duke could beat an NBA team
B: Was Duke's talent advantage contemplated below Duke's first 4 players.
C: That 18 year olds can be as good as they will be when they are 22-25 etc.

niveklaen
11-13-2018, 09:39 PM
I don’t think UVA gave up 80 points to anyone last year.

I am pretty sure that UVA would hold the GSW below 80.

dukelifer
11-13-2018, 10:23 PM
I am pretty sure that UVA would hold the GSW below 80.

Through boredom alone ;)

-jk
11-14-2018, 07:41 AM
I am pretty sure that UVA would hold the GSW below 80.

I don't think the packline effectively extends to the NBA 3...


Through boredom alone ;)

but this might work!

-jk

JasonEvans
11-14-2018, 10:10 AM
I am pretty sure that UVA would hold the GSW below 80.

No way. UVA controls the pace and plays great D...for a college team. But the Warriors would run circles around them. There is no one on the UVA roster who could hope to stop Kevin Durant and the pack-line would be utterly destroyed by the 3-point shooting of Steph and Klay.

OldPhiKap
11-14-2018, 10:20 AM
No way. UVA controls the pace and plays great D...for a college team. But the Warriors would run circles around them. There is no one on the UVA roster who could hope to stop Kevin Durant and the pack-line would be utterly destroyed by the 3-point shooting of Steph and Klay.

Not to mention the 24-second shot clock. And good luck trying to get back in transition for 48 minutes.

I don't mean to sound snarky, because the original question was asked earnestly and we are super-talented. But this thread is one of the most amusing things I have pondered in quite a while. The worst NBA team is full of super-elite athletes. Even by this team's standards.

kAzE
11-14-2018, 10:38 AM
Not to mention the 24-second shot clock. And good luck trying to get back in transition for 48 minutes.

I don't mean to sound snarky, because the original question was asked earnestly and we are super-talented. But this thread is one of the most amusing things I have pondered in quite a while. The worst NBA team is full of super-elite athletes. Even by this team's standards.

Also, there was a new rule put into place this year in the NBA, where after an offensive rebound, the shot clock only resets to 14 seconds instead of the full 24. This has obviously increased the pace of games even more than in the past. And I totally agree the Warriors would put up 120+ on Virginia no problem.

I was wondering though, does the clock still reset to 30 in college after an offensive board? Or is it 20 now? I love this change for the NBA and hope it carries over to college.

MChambers
11-14-2018, 10:40 AM
No way. UVA controls the pace and plays great D...for a college team. But the Warriors would run circles around them. There is no one on the UVA roster who could hope to stop Kevin Durant and the pack-line would be utterly destroyed by the 3-point shooting of Steph and Klay.

Try extending the pack line to where Curry, Thompson, and Durant take their shots. Then watch everyone drive through the extended defense.

MChambers
11-14-2018, 10:41 AM
Could five Zions beat five Grant Hills?

I mean, Grant's got to be 45 by now. If he was 35, no way.

MChambers
11-14-2018, 10:43 AM
This Duke team could easily defeat any NBA team, but would probably have to go into overtime against a team of mini-Ditkas.

I have stayed away from this thread for at least a week, because its premise is, to me, absurd. Don't know why I came back, but I'm glad to see comments like this.

What if this team had Art Heyman and Patrick Davidson?

kAzE
11-14-2018, 10:51 AM
I have stayed away from this thread for at least a week, because its premise is, to me, absurd.

It's actually not that absurd. The question was never "can Duke beat an NBA team?"

It's "does Duke have more talent than some NBA teams?," which is actually debatable, because we have 3 guys who could all legitimately be #1 overall draft picks in an average NBA draft, and maybe 3-4 more guys who will play in the NBA (Tre, Marques, Joey, maybe Javin)

The answer is still probably no, but it's not as absurd as you make it out to be. However, if Zion, RJ, and Cam all pan out and each become 5+ time all-stars (that's a really big if), I'd say that we do actually have comparable talent to the Cavs right now. Kevin Love is their only multi all-star. (Korver was an all-star once)

It's just that the bench guys on NBA rosters spots 8-15 are all guys who would have been all-americans (or close to it) in college, and therefore, it would be really hard to say that Duke collectively has more talent than any NBA team. But our top 3 is arguably better than most NBA teams' top 3.

KenTankerous
11-15-2018, 02:41 PM
The kids have to go to school!

The big boys go to the gym and play ball. They have trainers and big league coaches, nutritionist, and weight specialist, they have stylist and specifically trained guardians for every inch of their lives!

Duke is really good this year. But these guys are just out of high school. Let them enjoy their college experience without laying on our expectations. They deserve that and we kind of owe that to them.

Just enjoy what this year brings.

HereBeforeCoachK
11-15-2018, 03:33 PM
It's actually not that absurd. The question was never "can Duke beat an NBA team?"

It's "does Duke have more talent than some NBA teams?," which is actually debatable, because we have 3 guys who could all legitimately be #1 overall draft picks in an average NBA draft, and maybe 3-4 more guys who will play in the NBA (Tre, Marques, Joey, maybe Javin)

The answer is still probably no, but it's not as absurd as you make it out to be. However, if Zion, RJ, and Cam all pan out and each become 5+ time all-stars (that's a really big if), I'd say that we do actually have comparable talent to the Cavs right now. Kevin Love is their only multi all-star. (Korver was an all-star once)
.

THANK YOU I made the same points a while back.....about what the question was NOT.....and what those top three stars mean as far as "talent" on a single team.

PackMan97
11-15-2018, 03:40 PM
Duke has Coach K, that's easily puts them ahead of at least a few NBA teams who couldn't coach themselves out of a wet paper bag.

tendev
11-15-2018, 04:09 PM
After some serious thought while at work, I have come to the conclusion that the answer is no. I do not believe it is possible, even if you assumed they were using the Delorean used in Back to the Future, that you could transport the current Duke team 5 years into the future. First you would have to transport them one by one because there is not enough room for more than 2 and you need someone else to drive who can return to get the other guys. Maybe an assistant coach could drive, but would they agree to take the risk? This would take too long and is fraught with time travel risk. Duke would not allow it. Second, I don't think the Delorean has enough leg room for Zion or Vrankovic. Also, if you transported the Duke team 5 years into the future, you risk altering the present. They may decide to come back, not to the present, but rather after their one year at Duke is over and immediately enter the NBA draft. Even as a thought experiment, it seems too risky.

JasonEvans
11-21-2018, 11:43 AM
Jay Williams says with all the injuries to the Cavs (Kevin Love, George Hill, JR Smith being away from the team) that Duke could beat the Cavs today.


http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=25339128

Wander
11-21-2018, 11:48 AM
Jay Williams says with all the injuries to the Cavs (Kevin Love, George Hill, JR Smith being away from the team) that Duke could beat the Cavs today.


http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=25339128

Note that the host says – almost as an afterthought, as if it's blindingly obvious – that Duke-in-5-years would be "a much better team" than the current Cleveland Cavs (did the host read DBR?).

OP's question was nowhere near as ridiculous as a lot of people made it out to be.

rsvman
11-21-2018, 12:05 PM
Also, there was a new rule put into place this year in the NBA, where after an offensive rebound, the shot clock only resets to 14 seconds instead of the full 24. This has obviously increased the pace of games even more than in the past. And I totally agree the Warriors would put up 120+ on Virginia no problem.

I was wondering though, does the clock still reset to 30 in college after an offensive board? Or is it 20 now? I love this change for the NBA and hope it carries over to college.

I think it's 20 now, judging by what I saw last night. But, unlike you, I detest this rule change. In fact I hate pretty much all the rule changes that target speeding up the game. I'd like to see the shot clock go back to 40 seconds. I have a feeling that my take on this issue differs from that of the vast majority of college basketball fans.

BigZ
11-22-2018, 12:41 AM
Talent wise I think last years Duke team had more overall takent than this Duke team. This team just has much better team chemistry