PDA

View Full Version : 2018-2019 Officiating Thread



MChambers
11-06-2018, 07:34 PM
Thought maybe we could have a single thread discussing officiating. (Yes, I know folks will still complain about officiating in game threads and that this thread will at some point devolve into a playing time discussion, but it seems worth trying.)

I’ll start off. The Big Ten decided to dump Teddy Valentine this year.

https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/10/31/veteran-ref-ted-valentine-no-longer-working-big-ten-games-after-34-seasons/

Seems like a good move, but he’ll still be doing ACC games.

weezie
11-06-2018, 08:52 PM
It's annoying, as always, to see Mike Eades calling this ks-msu match.

Shudder...barf.

MChambers
11-06-2018, 09:00 PM
It's annoying, as always, to see Mike Eades calling this ks-msu match.

Shudder...barf.

I don’t know if it was Eades, but they missed a big foul when MSU’s Ward went down the lane and got hit hard, missed the layup and went down. Kansas got a wide open shot on the other end, playing 5 on 4. Really a 5 point swing. Otherwise, the officiating has been okay.

elvis14
11-06-2018, 09:13 PM
I don’t know if it was Eades, but they missed a big foul when MSU’s Ward went down the lane and got hit hard, missed the layup and went down. Kansas got a wide open shot on the other end, playing 5 on 4. Really a 5 point swing. Otherwise, the officiating has been okay.

For some reason it just seems like MSU can't buy a call in this game. I can't tell if the refs are wearing Adidas or not though.

CoachJ10
01-12-2019, 10:17 PM
and his crew embarrassed themselves again today...we needed to get this thread back near the top.

Seriously...how does K stay as composed as he does when he sees this kind of trash go against him on far too many occassions?

Bluedog
01-12-2019, 10:53 PM
and his crew embarrassed themselves again today...we needed to get this thread back near the top.

Seriously...how does K stay as composed as he does when he sees this kind of trash go against him on far too many occassions?

The thing that I thought was most hilarious was the fact Dickie V was calling him TV Teddy during the broadcast, when fanbases use that completely as a pejorative term. (Somebody may have mentioned this already in the game thread).

I mean, I don't think they were the greatest and I admit I was pissed at the screen a few times with calls, but it's not like the foul discrepancy was that great. We have to somewhat expect that on the road. The thing that is also funny to me is how emphatic the ref was in giving the ball to FSU at the end...and then the review showed he was clearly wrong. Some other head-scratchers in there including Zion's eye poke, the RJ poster dunk (how was that NOT an and-1?), Bolden's clean block that was called a foul, but I certainly don't subscribe to a theory that there's a bias against Duke or anything. I do subscribe to the theory that there's some bias against visiting squads typically which contributes to home court advantage...Honestly, in this game, I felt not enough fouls were called as FSU was playing extremely physical. I think the majority of 50/50 calls went their way, but sometimes them's the breaks.

kshepinthehouse
01-13-2019, 04:01 AM
I haven’t read all the threads yet, but I haven’t seen anyone mention that seemingly Tre Jones forced a 10 second violation that wasn’t called with a little more than a minute to go in the game. FSU didn’t end up scoring on that possession luckily.

peteandpete
01-13-2019, 05:16 AM
I haven’t read all the threads yet, but I haven’t seen anyone mention that seemingly Tre Jones forced a 10 second violation that wasn’t called with a little more than a minute to go in the game. FSU didn’t end up scoring on that possession luckily.

You are absolutely right. I noticed this, also.

left_hook_lacey
01-13-2019, 07:51 AM
Speaking of Vitale, when did he start laughing like Seth Rogan?

I noticed a lot of dead wrong calls in several games yesterday. They weren't even close calls, just blatantly incorrect.

In the UNC-Louisville game, a Louisville player hooked and held onto a UNC player on a rebound.

Bilas:. They're going to go review that on the monitor, the hook and hold is a point of emphasis this year. A kid got his arm broken because of a hook and hold last year, so any suspicion of a hook and hold will get reviewed and it'll be a flagrant 1. The refs have no say if the severity of it what so ever, if it's a hook and a hold, which it clearly is, it's a flagrant 1. This is going to be UNC ball, flagrant 1 on Louisville.

He repeats this repeatedly throughout the review.

Refs come back from the monitor, "it'sa common foul, he didn't hook him hard enough.". 😂

In that same game, UNC player on a fast break, Louisville player gets a clean, clear chasedown block, ref calls goal tending on Louisville.

Very. Next. Play. Louisville player goes up for a shot, UNC player gets a clesr, clean block, goal tending on UNC.

Too many others to list throughout the day. It was not a good day for officiating.

House G
01-13-2019, 07:54 AM
A couple of other calls yesterday that I thought were suspect, both late in the game when we were leading by two. With 5:35 left, Tre was called for a block by TV and I thought it was a charge. The look on Tre’s face indicated he disagreed with the call. With two minutes left, Bolden appeared to block a shot from behind but was called for the foul. He was out of position so that didn’t help his cause. I’ve never seen him so animated and I’ve never seen him jump that high (lol) in reaction to the call. All of the guys seem to be coached to not over react to bad calls because that’s part of the game. Even Coach K seems to have mellowed over time.

kshepinthehouse
01-13-2019, 08:08 AM
A couple of other calls yesterday that I thought were suspect, both late in the game when we were leading by two. With 5:35 left, Tre was called for a block by TV and I thought it was a charge. The look on Tre’s face indicated he disagreed with the call. With two minutes left, Bolden appeared to block a shot from behind but was called for the foul. He was out of position so that didn’t help his cause. I’ve never seen him so animated and I’ve never seen him jump that high (lol) in reaction to the call. All of the guys seem to be coached to not over react to bad calls because that’s part of the game. Even Coach K seems to have mellowed over time.

I agree Tre should have gotten the call on that one. That was an obvious charge. I don’t see any reason why Tre got called for a block.

Upon further review of Bolden’s call, it looked like a foul to me after replay. When I played it in slow motion it didn’t look like Bolden’s hand was high enough to block the basketball. Even if it wasn’t a foul, in real time it looked like a foul especially when he is beat and comes from that angle.

budwom
01-13-2019, 08:11 AM
Physical game as expected, but I really don't think it was poorly officiated. Complaining about officiating is a worldwide sports tradition, but I just didn't see a major problem yesterday other than Zion being clawed.

toughbuff1
01-13-2019, 10:34 AM
Don't forget the foul they called on us when the FSU player pump faked on the three towards the end of the game. Not only was it a questionable foul call, but after the pump fake the shooter's foot was clearly on the line, but they still gave him three foul shots, with no review.

BandAlum83
01-13-2019, 10:57 AM
Don't forget the foul they called on us when the FSU player pump faked on the three towards the end of the game. Not only was it a questionable foul call, but after the pump fake the shooter's foot was clearly on the line, but they still gave him three foul shots, with no review.

I just watched it again about 10 times. He clearly slides the right foot back behind the line before he goes up for the shot. The whistle bows after he goes up. It was a 3 point attempt.

The replay on the telecast shows a different angle but doesn’t actually show the foot on the floor.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-13-2019, 10:59 AM
I haven’t read all the threads yet, but I haven’t seen anyone mention that seemingly Tre Jones forced a 10 second violation that wasn’t called with a little more than a minute to go in the game. FSU didn’t end up scoring on that possession luckily.

I had not noticed that...and ironically, I think Tre got away with one in the first half....I know I was getting nervous as they kept Duke in the backcourt on that possession.....

uh_no
01-13-2019, 11:04 AM
Don't forget the foul they called on us when the FSU player pump faked on the three towards the end of the game. Not only was it a questionable foul call, but after the pump fake the shooter's foot was clearly on the line, but they still gave him three foul shots, with no review.

If you buy a pump fake and end up in the air, you're going to get called for it 100 times out of 100. The only question here is in duke fans' minds. Whether the letter of the rule or not, it's how the game is called.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-13-2019, 11:06 AM
If you buy a pump fake and end up in the air, you're going to get called for it 100 times out of 100. The only question here is in duke fans' minds. Whether the letter of the rule or not, it's how the game is called.

you can't possibly make that statement for at least two reasons...
A: not every pump fake situation is the same, not by a million light years...
B: I will not excuse any official who doesn't understand point A.

EDIT: oh, and another
C: We do see situations every season (not enough) where the ref clearly does NOT bite on these phony fouls....especially at end game and end/clock situations.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-13-2019, 11:09 AM
I just watched it again about 0 times.

Sounds like you know what of you speak then. :) (couldn't resist)

FSU plays WVU basketball. Hit em so hard and so often they can't call everything. K was aware of the physicality when he saw the schedule, and mentioned it to reporters (they kept saying how he wasn't worried about Xs and Os).

I didn't see the refs as egregious for the most part, just thought that FSU us one of those teams impossible to referee with.

I sure don't want any part of them in the tournament - mostly because I care more about player health then Ws.

BandAlum83
01-13-2019, 11:11 AM
Sounds like you know what of you speak then. :) (couldn't resist)

FSU plays WVU basketball. Hit em so hard and so often they can't call everything. K was aware of the physicality when he saw the schedule, and mentioned it to reporters (they kept saying how he wasn't worried about Xs and Os).

I didn't see the refs as egregious for the most part, just thought that FSU us one of those teams impossible to referee with.

I sure don't want any part of them in the tournament - mostly because I care more about player health then Ws.

Edited and fixed. Thanks!

weezie
01-13-2019, 11:18 AM
...after the pump fake the shooter's foot was clearly on the line, but they still gave him three foul shots, with no review.

Absolutely, and that was evident even without slo-mo. Many refs are just over-matched by the speed of the game. How a zebra can tell with absolute clarity what happened when they are in the back court while the ref immediately on the of the play, within four feet, sees nothing?

OK, we're supposed to accept that they catch more than they miss but they control the game and can definitely swing it on bad calls.

K has reached the stature of being allowed more leeway and 99.9999 times out of 100, he surely knows more about the game than the seasonal workers. During the clemson game he laid into the newest/youngest member of the crew (I didn't recognize the guy) with at least a minute of instructional conversation and then an arm pat. The ref then walked over to Roger Ayers at the free throw line and they must have been reviewing the chit chat. Roger kind of raised an eyebrow (everybody laughs at me for carrying binoculars into stadiums) but it was interesting to watch the back and forth.

uh_no
01-13-2019, 11:24 AM
you can't possibly make that statement for at least two reasons...
A: not every pump fake situation is the same, not by a million light years...
B: I will not excuse any official who doesn't understand point A.

EDIT: oh, and another
C: We do see situations every season (not enough) where the ref clearly does NOT bite on these phony fouls...especially at end game and end/clock situations.

I'll definitely entertain examples where a defender bites on a shooters pump fake, ends up in the air, makes contact with the shooter, and is NOT called for the foul.

UrinalCake
01-13-2019, 06:37 PM
The ACC just released a video of TV Teddy from the league’s review office:


https://youtu.be/J4s5XOFnv7I

kshepinthehouse
01-13-2019, 08:29 PM
I'll definitely entertain examples where a defender bites on a shooters pump fake, ends up in the air, makes contact with the shooter, and is NOT called for the foul.

One of the problems in the play by Reddish was that he seemingly bit on the pumpfake twice. Got caught in the air, gathered himself, then got caught in the air again.

HereBeforeCoachK
01-13-2019, 08:48 PM
I'll definitely entertain examples where a defender bites on a shooters pump fake, ends up in the air, makes contact with the shooter, and is NOT called for the foul.

Took me about two seconds to find one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnzGRV0ZysI

And you know the irony is, this one WAS a foul...but as if to PROVE my point, the ref did not go for it.

EDIT: here is language on this kind of play, and it's from the NBA, but the same principle should hold in college: and this would be the situation with Cam: " However, if the defender is vertical (jumping straight up and down) or going to completely miss the offensive player (e.g., jumping to his side), and the offensive player seeks out contact with the airborne defender, it is an offensive foul if the contact is more than marginal (that is, minimal contact will not be called)."

By that rule, Cam should not have been called.

CoachJ10
01-20-2019, 09:09 PM
If any of those in the “refs don’t affect the outcome of the game” camp are New Orleans Saints fans.

Saratoga2
01-21-2019, 09:04 AM
If any of those in the “refs don’t affect the outcome of the game” camp are New Orleans Saints fans.

Even the Patriots/Kansas City Game there were a lot of examples. Those are going to happen and one hopes they balance out and don't impact the outcome as they did to New Orleans. In the Patriots game there was a roughing the passer penalty that clearly was not and then there was a pick play on a Kansas City touchdown that should have been called. Lots of pass interference could have been called seemed to go Kansas City's way. In all though, the refs made some errors but it probably didn't impact the final outcome. In Basketball, I dread seeing some of the refs like Teddy Valentine. One would think the league would score these refs and keep the ones out who make a lot of errors or have bad attitudes.