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dudog84
10-29-2018, 10:28 AM
Though Jim Sumner has put up some isolated posts, I don't think there has been a thread yet for general discussion. So I'll start it. Especially since The Chronicle has a bunch of articles up today:

https://www.dukechronicle.com/section/womens-basketball

They've been writing short evaluations daily about individual players for the last week in The Blue Zone if you want to check that out.

Also, freshman Miela Goodchild is playing this week for the Australian U18 team in the Asian Championships. In this morning's game she put up 27 points in 24 minutes (with 10 rebounds). The other team was outmatched, but still. She may be a gem that wasn't listed in the recruiting services because she's from Australia.

http://www.fiba.basketball/asia/u18awomen/2018/game/2910/Chinese-Taipei-Australia#tab=overview

Kedsy
10-29-2018, 11:43 AM
Though Jim Sumner has put up some isolated posts, I don't think there has been a thread yet for general discussion. So I'll start it. Especially since The Chronicle has a bunch of articles up today:

https://www.dukechronicle.com/section/womens-basketball

They've been writing short evaluations daily about individual players for the last week in The Blue Zone if you want to check that out.

Also, freshman Miela Goodchild is playing this week for the Australian U18 team in the Asian Championships. In this morning's game she put up 27 points in 24 minutes (with 10 rebounds). The other team was outmatched, but still. She may be a gem that wasn't listed in the recruiting services because she's from Australia.

http://www.fiba.basketball/asia/u18awomen/2018/game/2910/Chinese-Taipei-Australia#tab=overview

Yeah, I think the team will be counting on Miela to play the part of our top recruit. How good she is and how well Jade plays are among the biggest questions the answers for which will determine how good the team is this year (the other questions being how well have Haley, Kyra, and Mikayla recovered from their respective injuries, and will Leaonna step up and be the All-American level player we all think she can be).

CameronBornAndBred
10-31-2018, 01:24 PM
The women start the season ranked 21st. Notre Dame is #1, the ACC has six teams in the top 25. There are three other ACC teams in the "getting votes" category, and Sylvia's ladies ain't one of them.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-women/d1/associated-press

killerleft
10-31-2018, 01:48 PM
Today through Friday, one can buy a package that includes all eight ACC home games for $31. At GoDuke.com:

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22760&SPID=1846&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=211778251

Kedsy
10-31-2018, 02:37 PM
(the other questions being how well have Haley, Kyra, and Mikayla recovered from their respective injuries, and will Leaonna step up and be the All-American level player we all think she can be).

Very sad, but I guess one of those questions has been answered. This leaves us with a strong starting five and essentially zero proven depth. And even that assumes Haley and Mikayla recover well and no further injuries (knocking vigorously on a well-worn and heretofore ineffective piece of wood).

CameronBornAndBred
10-31-2018, 10:14 PM
Very sad, but I guess one of those questions has been answered. This leaves us with a strong starting five and essentially zero proven depth. And even that assumes Haley and Mikayla recover well and no further injuries (knocking vigorously on a well-worn and heretofore ineffective piece of wood).

Knock twice as hard as you believe needs to be effective.

dudog84
11-03-2018, 08:20 AM
Miela Goodchild's Australia team came in 3rd in the U18 Asian Championships. Miela was her team's best player and scored 10, 27, 9, 13, 26, and 21 points in the 6 games and averaged 6 rebounds. She should make the all-tournament team. I haven't the slightest clue how tough the competition was.

dudog84
11-10-2018, 06:31 PM
C'mon Jim Sumner, give yourself some props...you probably don't want to link your own article, so I will.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22760&SPID=1846&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=211779784

CameronBornAndBred
11-15-2018, 01:51 PM
Coach P will on the sideline in Maine tonight, on the other bench at the site of her first HC job.
Maine is 2-0, winning both of their games by a healthy margin. Game is at 7 on ESPN+, so I won't be watching, but might tune into the audio.
Will our women come home 1-1, or 0-2?

Kfanarmy
11-15-2018, 03:08 PM
I was shocked, maybe shouldn't have been, but was shocked that NW dominated Duke in their season opener. Wow. It could be a really long season for this Duke team.

chrishoke
11-15-2018, 04:20 PM
Here's a run down of next year's recruits, ranked #12.
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211780680&DB_OEM_ID=4200

Kedsy
11-15-2018, 05:03 PM
Here's a run down of next year's recruits, ranked #12.
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211780680&DB_OEM_ID=4200

So, next season we're going to have a Jade, a Jayda, and a Jaida?

Hmm.

rasputin
11-15-2018, 05:18 PM
So, next season we're going to have a Jade, a Jayda, and a Jaida?

Hmm.

Who will sing the role of Aida?

jv001
11-15-2018, 05:27 PM
So, next season we're going to have a Jade, a Jayda, and a Jaida?

Hmm.

My first wish is pleaseeeeeeeee stay healthy. Seems the Women's BB team has been snake bitten when it comes to injuries. GoDuke!

Kedsy
11-15-2018, 05:38 PM
My first wish is pleaseeeeeeeee stay healthy. Seems the Women's BB team has been snake bitten when it comes to injuries. GoDuke!

Couldn't agree more. Sadly, that ship already sailed for 2018-19, but we can always hope in 2019-20.

CameronBornAndBred
11-15-2018, 05:49 PM
My first wish is pleaseeeeeeeee stay healthy. Seems the Women's BB team has been snake bitten when it comes to injuries. GoDuke!

Snake bites would heal faster than the injuries the women have suffered.

Phredd3
11-16-2018, 06:52 PM
So, next season we're going to have a Jade, a Jayda, and a Jaida?

Unfortunately, 2019 recruits Jada Boyd and Jada Peoples committed to NC State and Illinois, respectively, so we can't collect the whole set.

CameronBornAndBred
11-16-2018, 07:06 PM
Unfortunately, 2019 recruits Jada Boyd and Jada Peoples committed to NC State and Illinois, respectively, so we can't collect the whole set.

Yeah, but that State game is gonna be a blast for the announcers!

DU82
11-18-2018, 02:59 PM
Not starting a game thread (especially after I started the NU one.)

At the half, Duke 48-39 over Elon. Elon is led by the next cheater coach, Charlotte Smith, and she has her team ready. Good ball movement and shooting, but a bit over matched in terms of talent.

Slow start for the Devils, but picked up to lead 24-20 at the quarter.

We have a point guard playing with Leaonna and Haley most of the time. Miela started, but picked up two fouls (and then a third), Rayah played well and Jadya provided a spark off the bench. Leaonna has two fouls, which limitedher play on the first half.

Jade also picked up two quick fouls and sat for he rest of the half. We’re 8n trouble inside if she isn’t in the game Sofia came in, had one stupid foul on an offensive through in and went out. Madison has three offensive rebounds, and Uchenna, well she’s big. When we went to a smaller lineup, Faith moved to the center, and has played well (she started, along with Leaonna, Haley, Miela and Jade.)

We are missing a go to player on offense. Haley and Leaonna have spurts, but it’s not consistent. Going to be a problem against better teams.

DU82
11-18-2018, 03:30 PM
68-53 after three. Leaonna has started to take over somewhat, with a few mid-range jumpers that have found nothing but net.

I left Onome out of the list of bigs, because she was sitting on the bench with the other bigs (sitting next to one of the assistants; don’t read anything into that). First time I’ve seen her, and she is promising. Active on defense, had a nice block/catch on the wing.

chrishoke
11-18-2018, 04:28 PM
Duke wins 81-64. My take is that Duke is a bottom half of the ACC club. We have two very solid players, Gorecki and Odom. Odom could be a future star. Her mid range game is excellent. Unfortunately, our other players are not ACC caliber starters. Additionally, our zone continues to give up way to many wide open threes. I hope I am wrong. Maybe things will change if and when we can get out pg back from injury. Go Duke!

jimsumner
11-18-2018, 06:01 PM
Okay some thoughts.

First, some house-cleaning.

As you may have noticed, I'm covering DWBB for GoDuke.com. and still an article or two for Go Duke: the Magazine, which actually are different entities.

Within those constraints, I'll keep posting my impressions.

Right now, this is very much a work in progress. Losing Kyra Lambert was a big loss. No way to sugarcoat it. She checked a bunch of big boxes, experience, best perimeter defender, best facilitator.

In her absence, I think we'll see a point-guard-by-committee, with Gorecki, Goodchild, Craig, Adams, Odom and Boykin--when she returns--taking turns initiating the offense.

Unfortunately, I fear all of these players may be better playing off the ball.

Boykin? She's practicing but with limits. No contact. Duke is still saying December but I'd be surprised if we see her before the middle of the month.

Duke is very young. Suggs and Roma are the only players who use up their eligibility this season. Roma is not an ACC player. I've always thought Suggs to be the consummate complementary player, an asset to the team if you surround her with good players and don't ask her to do too much. She had a career-high 12 points today against Elon and seems to be more assertive with the ball.

Suggs is very smart and McCallie values her leadership skills.

Leaonna Odom was exceptional today, 21 points, 10 rebounds, three assists. She seemed very comfortable playing the point and is making much better decisions with the ball. When her drives are cut off, she's not driving into a turnover but rather elevating fr mid-range jumpers.

If she plays like this consistently, she's in the All-America mix. She can be that good.

Haley Gorecki, on the other hand, is struggling a bit. She has a high basketball IQ but I think she recognizes this team's issues and is trying too hard to make something happen, forcing plays that just aren't there.

Getting Boykin back will help her big time.

Duke has four true freshmen and three will play a lot this year.

Miela Goodchild missed a couple of weeks to go to India for an international tournament--she's Australian--and she's just getting back into the swing of things. She has very good ball skills but she's going to have to adjust to ACC-level athleticism.

Onome Akinbode-James is an athletic 6-4, a native of Nigeria. She can run the floor, hit the face-up jumper and she had four blocks today, in 24 minutes.

She needs to figure out what she can and cannot do at this level.

Rayah Craig is a 5-10 guard. She's a tough, physical, high-energy player. She's already ahead of Jayda Adams in the rotation.

Their youth showed today, with some early reach-in-fouls and hesitant decision-making. But they're freshmen. They should get better with time and Duke plays three games in three days later this week in Florida. Force-feeding.

Boykin is a redshirt freshmen, so she'll make four freshmen in the rotation, when she returns.

Sophomore Jade Williams might be the most important player on the team. She and Akinbode-James are the only ACC-level posts on the team, IMO, and she can be almost unstoppable when things are going well.

But her inconsistency is maddening. Duke needs to know what to expect from her day-in-and day-out and that hasn't happened yet. Still, she's three games into her sophomore season.

I can see this season going several ways. We'll find out how good a coach McCallie is this season. If Boykin comes back hale and hearty sometime in the next month, the underclassmen improve and Odom and Gorecki show they can play at an All-ACC level with some consistency, then this is a Sweet Sixteen team, maybe better.

But there are a lot of qualifiers there. If Duke can't solve it's point-guard issues, if fouls and turnovers don't improve, if some bigs don't start showing some consistency, then this could be a long season.

Duke doesn't play at home again until December 2. After the tournament in Florida, Duke plays At Wisconsin, the ACC-Big 10 Challenge.

Lots of chances to grow. And lots of growing to do.

chrishoke
11-18-2018, 06:14 PM
Great stuff Jim, thanks. I needed to hear your glass is half full analysis. I sure hope our season goes that way. Regardless, I will be intently watching and pulling hard for our Devils.

Tappan Zee Devil
11-18-2018, 08:07 PM
You must spread some Comments around before commenting on jimsumner again.

chrishoke
11-18-2018, 08:31 PM
You must spread some Comments around before commenting on jimsumner again.

I've got you covered.

Kedsy
11-18-2018, 11:55 PM
Unfortunately, our other players are not ACC caliber starters. ... Maybe things will change if and when we can get ou[r] pg back from injury. Go Duke!

I was impressed today by how athletic Onome is and how well she can run the floor. With her and Leaonna, we have two very athletic forwards, to pair with two potential high-octane scoring guards in Haley and Miela. We could be a strong running team if we had the right PG, but while Rayah and Jayda both played well today, neither seems to be someone who can effectively run the break. If Mikayla can excel in that role, we should be both entertaining and successful. I agree with Jim that Jade could be a game-changer, but both her lack of consistency and our lack of a consistent post-feeding guard are points against her actually changing many games. Again, Mikayla could potentially help here, and hopefully Rayah and/or Jayda might improve enough to offer quality PG minutes.

The rest of our players, including Faith who was outstanding today, are role players at this level. But we either need our top players to take the next step up, or have one of our PGs take control of the team. I honestly don't know if Mikayla can be that PG, but if she isn't it's going to be an up-and-down year. As someone said upthread, it's really a shame that Kyra got hurt again.

chrishoke
11-23-2018, 03:56 PM
Duke loses 71-64 to a Washington team that just lost to Tulane. The lead was double digits for most of the 4th quarter.

dudog84
11-23-2018, 04:05 PM
Duke loses 71-64 to a Washington team that just lost to Tulane. The lead was double digits for most of the 4th quarter.

From what I can tell from a quick perusal of the hoopgurlz rankings over the past few years, Washington does not have a single top-100 recruit on their team (they had a couple that were in the 50 range but did not show up on the box score, so I assume they are not on the team).

Washington was also picked pre-season to finish 12th in the PAC12. Yep, dead last.

To put it mildly, that's just unacceptable. What a mess.

CameronBornAndBred
11-23-2018, 04:16 PM
Box score shows Duke had a horrendous first half, scoring only 12 points in each quarter. They won the second half (and each quarter), but that doesn't do much good when they started it off down by 13.
Eek. Positive side, nice output by Gorecki (20) and Odom (19).

chrishoke
11-23-2018, 05:00 PM
Box score shows Duke had a horrendous first half, scoring only 12 points in each quarter. They won the second half (and each quarter), but that doesn't do much good when they started it off down by 13.
Eek. Positive side, nice output by Gorecki (20) and Odom (19).

And like I said upthread, those 2 are about all we have.

CameronBornAndBred
11-23-2018, 05:15 PM
And like I said upthread, those 2 are about all we have.

Freshman Miela Goodchild shot 3-5 from three point land, for 12 points total. That's promising. She was the only other player in double digits.

chrishoke
11-23-2018, 05:24 PM
Agreed, Miela has potential. But, man this Duke team right now is bad.

CameronBornAndBred
11-23-2018, 05:29 PM
Agreed, Miela has potential. But, man this Duke team right now is bad.

Yup. To add insult to injury, Sylvia's ladies just beat #17 USF. Ugh.

grossbus
11-23-2018, 07:36 PM
“ Positive side, nice output by Gorecki (20) and Odom (19).“

However, neither of them shot well (7-17, 6-17].

Mike Corey
11-23-2018, 08:35 PM
Here's hoping we get healthy and turn it around and deliver a first Final Four trip for Coach McCallie at Duke.

dudog84
11-24-2018, 03:16 PM
Since the football game is not worth watching, I checked the women's score. Big whoop-de-doo-doo. We beat a 1-win Ball State team.

Get this...29 turnovers. Holy crap, there's only 40 minutes in the game.

devilseven
11-24-2018, 03:27 PM
Since the football game is not worth watching, I checked the women's score. Big whoop-de-doo-doo. We beat a 1-win Ball State team.

Get this...29 turnovers. Holy crap, there's only 40 minutes in the game.

That's a lot better performance than the football coaches and players today. Seems like our football team has had at least 29 turnovers. At least the women's basketball WON the game against a poor team. Our football team is getting trounced by a very poor team.

chrishoke
11-25-2018, 03:28 PM
The Duke women lose again today to Missouri 62-54. Really sad state of affairs.

grossbus
11-25-2018, 03:45 PM
League play could be a disaster.

We can’t score against good teams. A problem that has existed for years.

dukelifer
11-25-2018, 04:18 PM
Could be the beginning of the end for Coach P.

chrishoke
11-25-2018, 04:44 PM
Gorecki and Odom were our only double digit scorers and Gorecki shot very poorly. I'm sure she feels a ton of pressure to score.

Phredd3
11-25-2018, 06:42 PM
Gorecki and Odom were our only double digit scorers and Gorecki shot very poorly. I'm sure she feels a ton of pressure to score.

It would be hard not to feel that kind of pressure, since we get very little in the way of offense out of the post position.

duke09hms
11-25-2018, 07:38 PM
Could be the beginning of the end for Coach P.

Short term pain for long term gain. Too bad for the current players though.

Mike Corey
11-25-2018, 10:43 PM
3-3 is the worst start for DWB since 1998, when we opened up the year 1-3.

(Those losses were to UConn, Virginia Tech, and Notre Dame. We ended up losing in the NCAA Championship to Purdue. That was our program's first Final Four.)

jimsumner
11-26-2018, 12:04 PM
A very young team, with a challenging early schedule, one that still has some big bumps in the road over the next few weeks.

The key is whether Duke gets better as the season progresses. If McCallie and her staff do their jobs and Duke has recruited players who respond well to challenges, then Duke should get better and better, a productive 2019 season leading into a 2020 season when almost everyone of consequence returns, a top-15 recruiting class comes in and Kyra Lambert returns, as good as new.

That's the glass half-full view.

But there's a glass half-empty scenario, in which Duke stagnates and we get the kind of off-court issues we had back in 2016. Then some hard questions will need to be asked.

But that's a lot of bridges and a lot of ifs down the road.

Right now?

Several big issues but two stand out.

One is turnovers. Odom is playing the best basketball of her career in many respects. But Duke is asking her to handle the ball more and she had a seven-turnover game last week. Duke had a 29-turnover game. Duke has to reduce that to mid-teens to have a chance to beat good teams.

The second is post productivity. Duke has a lot of scholarships invested in post players without much to show for it.

Neither Sofia Roma nor Emily Schubert has shone ACC-level ability. Both have had significant injury issues and I'll be pleasantly surprised if either develops into a rotation player.

Uchenna Nwoke is a 6-6 freshman, a big-time project. She's too heavy to play up-tempo right now and she averaged 7.6 points per game last year in high school. So, we're not talking refined ball skills here.

Could be a factor down the road. But not this year.

Madison Treece shows some potential. But she's not playing much and clearly doesn't have McCallie's confidence.

That leaves 6-5 sophomore Jade Williams and 6-4 freshman Onome Akinbode-James.

Both have shown the ability to play well at this level. But both are prone to the kind of mistakes young players make; inconsistency, loss of focus, uncertainty about where they're supposed to be and what they're supposed to be doing when they get there.

Williams needs to grind better, Akinbode-James needs to assert herself more.

And the coaches need to show them how to get there.

The roadmap to a successful 2019 season, IMO, starts with getting Boykin back, getting significant improvement from Williams and Akinbode-James and controlling the turnovers.

Phredd3
11-26-2018, 12:22 PM
The roadmap to a successful 2019 season, IMO, starts with getting Boykin back, getting significant improvement from Williams and Akinbode-James and controlling the turnovers.
Based strictly on her post-game comments, McCallie seems to be prioritizing the first item on your list, getting a point guard. That's understandable after a game where we committed 14 turnovers but had just six assists, but I personally think the post is much more important. We cannot be a good team when we get a total of eight points of scoring (15% of the total output) from the post in a game where we have a significant size advantage. That should have been a major edge for us in this game, and instead was a liability. We were even out-rebounded in the first half, something Onome changed almost single-handedly in the second half.

If we can't improve that, we might even be better off playing with a four-guard set.

du_bb1
11-26-2018, 12:31 PM
Great summary Jim, point guard and ball handlers-gotta haves, let Odom get back to the wing/post.
hope they are able to improve as the season unfolds-fingers crossed !

Kedsy
11-26-2018, 01:59 PM
but I personally think the post is much more important.

A good point guard makes her post players much more effective. Coach P appears to be focused on the right thing.

Phredd3
11-26-2018, 02:09 PM
A good point guard makes her post players much more effective. Coach P appears to be focused on the right thing.
Hopefully, we can do both.

CameronBornAndBred
11-28-2018, 09:45 PM
Excellent first half vs Wisconsin! With almost half of the 1st quarter played, Duke had scored only one point, were down by 7, and had turned it over tons of times. Looked like they were heading towards disaster.
Instead, the ladies did a beautiful job of regrouping, and with nice scoring selection, good defense, and strong rebounding, go into the locker room up by 11. Score 30-19, Blue Devils.

Keep it up!

CameronBornAndBred
11-28-2018, 10:58 PM
Duke wins 60-53 in a game that was not as close as the score implies. They suffered a 9 point drought in the second, and then went on a tear to get an 18 point lead at one point.

This was a very solid and much needed win.

chrishoke
11-28-2018, 11:03 PM
Yep, really nice win at 6-1 Wisconsin whose only loss was by one point to Arkansas. Progress.

loran16
11-28-2018, 11:07 PM
Yep, my friends in my Duke Facebook thread were all joking this morning about how much we'd lose by and how we'd wind up 3-4, so this was a very pleasant surprise. Hopefully the start of something to build on - I'm not sure how good Wisconsin will wind up being, but a true road game against a power 5 team that results in what was a convincing victory is always impressive.

CameronBornAndBred
11-29-2018, 10:53 AM
The roadmap to a successful 2019 season, IMO, starts with getting Boykin back, getting significant improvement from Williams and Akinbode-James and controlling the turnovers.

Boykin will be back on the court this Sunday. :D:D
Also, I'm hoping the game that we saw from A-J is a foretelling of what's to come. She was the difference maker last night with her double-double.

chrishoke
11-29-2018, 12:59 PM
Boykin will be back on the court this Sunday. :D:D
Also, I'm hoping the game that we saw from A-J is a foretelling of what's to come. She was the difference maker last night with her double-double.

That's great news. I sure hope she is ready to go.

CameronBornAndBred
11-29-2018, 01:09 PM
That's great news. I sure hope she is ready to go.

The announcers said she took part in the pre-game warmups last night, and mentioned several times that she will be playing on Sunday. I want to say that Marist should be an easy win, but they lost in their conference championship last year and are off to a 5-1 start this year, so they know how to compete.
As long as Boykin is ready to go, getting her into the rotation now instead of later in the year is a great way to get the team acclimated.
Cross your fingers!

chrishoke
12-02-2018, 04:20 PM
An eight point victory today over a 6-1 Marist team that led by one at half after sinking a desperation three pointer at the buzzer. Gorecki again shot terribly, 4-17. Odom led with 20. Her mid range jump shot is a thing of beauty. Unfortunately, Boykin did not play. We really need her.

In other good news, the heels lost at home to a Maine team we beat on the road. GTHC GTH!

buddy
12-02-2018, 07:57 PM
Based on what I saw today it's going to be a long season. McCallie wants the offense to run through the post, which requires a post player(s) with good footwork, hands, and instincts. Today Williams made 5 baskets and committed 5 turnovers. She travels almost as much as she converts. Gorecki had a difficult day at 4-17. 17 shots to make 17 points is Allen Iversonesque. Most opposing coaches will take it. Odom had a good game, but didn't really assert herself until late. She has a really sweet mid-range jumper. Unfortunately she doesn't have much help. The effort was there, but the talent seems considerably below what we have come to expect. Lack of a true point guard really hurts. And whatever happened to Boykin playing today? I'm trying to be optimistic but finding it quite difficult.

CameronBornAndBred
12-02-2018, 09:56 PM
And whatever happened to Boykin playing today? I'm trying to be optimistic but finding it quite difficult.

Great question. She sure was being primed during our last game as going today. I don't want to see her on the court until she's ready though.
I didn't see the game, but what happened with the Akinbode-James from the Wisconsin game? In that one, she gets a double-double, and today has 4 boards with 3 points. I see she only played 12 minutes, did she exit early?

DU82
12-02-2018, 10:08 PM
Great question. She sure was being primed during our last game as going today. I don't want to see her on the court until she's ready though.
I didn't see the game, but what happened with the Akinbode-James from the Wisconsin game? In that one, she gets a double-double, and today has 4 boards with 3 points. I see she only played 12 minutes, did she exit early?

Two early fouls put her on the bench for the rest of the half, and from viewpoint never got into any flow.

Marist packed it in (no surprise there) and harassed Haley all game to put her off her game. She’s forcing things, because if Leaonna isn’t in the game (mentally) Haley’s the offense. Miela has promised, but missing time during the preseason means she’s a bit out of synch.

No disagreement about Jade. It’s as if she’d never played basketball before with some of her plays.

As we struggled to get ahead, we were talking about how little Faith adds on offense and is a role player forced into a bigger role. She then made three big plays in a row to pick up the team.

Not sure about Mikayla. She was in warmups, but never got off the bench. Other than about a minute from Sofia, the bench was Jade, Jayda and Rayah. We need the help, but it’s not really coming. It’s going to be a long season, unless MiKayla can shed the inevitable rust she’ll have and be a steady point guard. Since she appeared to be more an off guard, we’ll have to see.

Phredd3
12-02-2018, 10:45 PM
Since she appeared to be more an off guard, we’ll have to see.
She almost always played beside Kyra, who is a true natural point guard. Mikayla can handle the ball and get some assists.

I'm not sure that will be enough to salvage the season, though. This team just looks lost. It's not so much about the physical talent as it is about the mental side. They are often second-guessing themselves, or they get so locked in to what they're supposed to do as part of the play that they aren't seizing the opportunities the floor situation presents. We beat Marist by single-digits. We should have been able to beat them by 25. This was not the start of the home stand I was hoping for.

dudog84
12-03-2018, 08:02 AM
She almost always played beside Kyra, who is a true natural point guard. Mikayla can handle the ball and get some assists.

Mikayla never played a minute beside Kyra.

Kedsy
12-03-2018, 11:47 AM
Mikayla never played a minute beside Kyra.

True. But she played most of her minutes next to Lexie Brown.

Phredd3
12-03-2018, 12:19 PM
True. But she played most of her minutes next to Lexie Brown.

D'oh. Was thinking about injuries and mistyped. What Kedsy said.

dudog84
12-03-2018, 05:32 PM
True. But she played most of her minutes next to Lexie Brown.

I'm not sure Lexie was a true point guard, certainly not like Kyra. Remember 2 years ago when they were playing pretty well with Kyra and Lexie in the backcourt, Lexie was clearly the off-guard.

I don't remember Mikayla's 10 games a year ago whether she was the primary ballhandler. I don't believe she was recruited as a point guard.

Phredd3
12-03-2018, 05:42 PM
I don't remember Mikayla's 10 games a year ago whether she was the primary ballhandler. I don't believe she was recruited as a point guard.

My recollection is that she virtually always brought the ball up in favor of Becca, but did so only about half the time when Lexie was on the floor. One or the other of those two was nearly always out there. She was generally listed by recruiters as a "combo guard".

burnspbesq
12-06-2018, 07:56 PM
Lots of turnovers in the first half, but most of them have been “errors of enthusiasm,” e.g., sticking passes into small windows and not having them caught cleanly. That said, the defense has been excellent, and Odom caught fire late. Duke leads by eight at the break.

burnspbesq
12-06-2018, 08:29 PM
Defense really caught fire in the third, holding the Rebels to six points. Boykin shaking off the rust, and Duke’s complementary players are contributing. Up by 21 going to the fourth.

chrishoke
12-06-2018, 08:42 PM
Defense really caught fire in the third, holding the Rebels to six points. Boykin shaking off the rust, and Duke’s complementary players are contributing. Up by 21 going to the fourth.

She already has 6 assists (with 3 turnovers).

chrishoke
12-06-2018, 09:03 PM
Duke wins by 28, 66-38. Boykin is going to help a lot. Lots of rust, but lots of positives, including 5 steals. The next 2 games will tell us a lot.

Phredd3
12-06-2018, 11:39 PM
Duke wins by 28, 66-38. Boykin is going to help a lot. Lots of rust, but lots of positives, including 5 steals. The next 2 games will tell us a lot.
At this point I think I'd lay odds against us holding a game on Sunday at all. Which is a shame, because I've missed the last two and I was looking forward to seeing Mikayla in action.

jimsumner
12-06-2018, 11:42 PM
At this point I think I'd lay odds against us holding a game on Sunday at all. Which is a shame, because I've missed the last two and I was looking forward to seeing Mikayla in action.

Canceling/postponing the game is indeed on the table. Especially since it's a non-conference game.

dudog84
12-07-2018, 08:49 AM
Canceling/postponing the game is indeed on the table. Especially since it's a non-conference game.

Darn. We'd have a chance to get a win against a ranked team that's 5-4.

CameronBornAndBred
12-07-2018, 11:00 AM
At this point I think I'd lay odds against us holding a game on Sunday at all. Which is a shame, because I've missed the last two and I was looking forward to seeing Mikayla in action.


Canceling/postponing the game is indeed on the table. Especially since it's a non-conference game.

When does SC make the trip? I'd assume tomorrow, sometime before the weather hits, since it isn't supposed to make an impact until later in the evening. So if they cancel, I'd think they'd need to announce it today.
I'd bet they don't cancel, but encourage fans to stay home and watch on tv.

Phredd3
12-07-2018, 01:48 PM
I'd bet they don't cancel, but encourage fans to stay home and watch on tv.
I hate that we already pretty much lose home court advantage to South Carolina, and you know if the team bus comes, the fan buses will come, too. It would be effectively an away game for our own players if Duke told its own fans to just stay home. In my opinion, if they are convinced local fans can't make it to the game safely, they should cancel the game.

jimsumner
12-07-2018, 05:56 PM
I hate that we already pretty much lose home court advantage to South Carolina, and you know if the team bus comes, the fan buses will come, too. It would be effectively an away game for our own players if Duke told its own fans to just stay home. In my opinion, if they are convinced local fans can't make it to the game safely, they should cancel the game.

In 1996 the Duke men hosted Georgia Tech on a snowy, freezing-rain Sunday afternoon. I do not recall if Duke formally advised people to stay at home. But I sure did and I live 25 miles from CIS. The roads were a skating rink.

Duke opened the seating up to anyone who could make it but even the bottom level wasn't completely full. Duke did lose the home-court advantage and the game, albeit to a very good GT team--Stephon Marbury, Matt Harpring, Drew Barry. But the absence of a supportive home crowd had to have been a factor.

Not an easy decision and not one I envy having to make.

CameronBornAndBred
12-07-2018, 09:30 PM
Duke did lose the home-court advantage and the game...

They did? Losing home court advantage implies to me that there are more fans of the other team vs home fans. (IE Duke football vs any number of teams in years past.) Did GT actually show up with more winterized yellow jackets?

I've been in Cameron for women's games packed to the rafters...with folks that drove over from Chapel Hill. In those games it didn't feel like we had much of a home court feeling; those are the closest reverses I've witnessed. But even then, there were still more of the correct shade of blue.

awhom111
12-07-2018, 10:33 PM
I hate that we already pretty much lose home court advantage to South Carolina, and you know if the team bus comes, the fan buses will come, too. It would be effectively an away game for our own players if Duke told its own fans to just stay home. In my opinion, if they are convinced local fans can't make it to the game safely, they should cancel the game.

Would South Carolina really be busing to Duke? It seems a sufficient distance that any respectable women's basketball program would charter a flight for the trip.

CameronBornAndBred
12-07-2018, 11:24 PM
Would South Carolina really be busing to Duke? It seems a sufficient distance that any respectable women's basketball program would charter a flight for the trip.

That's what I was assuming too. (And why I'd assume they would be landing Saturday before the weather hits.)

HereBeforeCoachK
12-08-2018, 08:45 AM
Would South Carolina really be busing to Duke? It seems a sufficient distance that any respectable women's basketball program would charter a flight for the trip.

Didn't Duke FB bus to Clemson? That's even further.

dudog84
12-08-2018, 09:18 AM
Game is surely on. They have to come in today with a 2:00 tip-off tomorrow. Not only would they have cancelled by now, this article has today's date so it must be current:

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22760&SPID=1846&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211783225&DB_OEM_ID=4200

CameronBornAndBred
12-08-2018, 11:27 AM
Two of the "Three Keys" from Dudog's link.


• Duke has held its last three opponents (Wisconsin - 53; Marist - 56; UNLV - 38) to season low points. The Blue Devil defense has held those opponents to only 49.0 points, 33.5 percent shooting, 25.0 percent from downtown and only 29.0 rebounds a game.
• The Blue Devils boast an eight-game winning streak at home in Cameron Indoor Stadium against ranked opponents. The last loss came Feb. 1, 2016 to third-ranked Notre Dame.

The first one is good news, I'm not so optimistic about continuing the streak in the second one. However, even though SC is ranked, they have yet to beat a ranked team this season.
Each of the ranked teams they've played have all been in the top 10, so it's a bit weighted.
(All home games. Oregon State, 9th, Maryland, 9th, and Baylor, 4th)

fathippo
12-08-2018, 12:00 PM
Game is surely on. They have to come in today with a 2:00 tip-off tomorrow. Not only would they have cancelled by now, this article has today's date so it must be current:

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22760&SPID=1846&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211783225&DB_OEM_ID=4200

Game vs. South Carolina won’t be played Sunday due to weather.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211783243&DB_OEM_ID=4200

chrishoke
12-08-2018, 12:57 PM
Well damn. Thanks.

CameronBornAndBred
12-08-2018, 03:23 PM
Game vs. South Carolina won’t be played Sunday due to weather.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211783243&DB_OEM_ID=4200

The streak is intact for another year.

CameronBornAndBred
12-08-2018, 03:28 PM
I hate that we already pretty much lose home court advantage to South Carolina, and you know if the team bus comes, the fan buses will come, too.

Phredd3 nailed that one.

Coach Dawn Staley had said Friday that the program had arranged for three busloads of Carolina fans to drive to Duke the day of the game. Those fans have been contacted directly by the university, according to a team spokesperson.

https://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-womens-basketball/article222844500.html

CameronBornAndBred
12-09-2018, 11:29 AM
With snow total reports I'm seeing online, it looks like they made a good call with the cancellation.

uh_no
12-09-2018, 12:04 PM
With snow total reports I'm seeing online, it looks like they made a good call with the cancellation.

roads are passable if necessary....the ground was warm enough that there's a layer of slush under the snow (will be a mess if it refreezes tonight), but still wouldn't want to go out if not necessary.

jimsumner
12-17-2018, 03:39 PM
Madison Treece to transfer.

I thought she had some potential.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211783975&DB_OEM_ID=4200

chrishoke
12-17-2018, 04:03 PM
Best of luck Madison.

AustinDevil
12-17-2018, 10:26 PM
Madison Treece to transfer.

I thought she had some potential.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211783975&DB_OEM_ID=4200

She seems to think that as well.

Mike Corey
12-18-2018, 09:26 AM
Good luck, Madison. Thank you for your contributions to our University.

jimsumner
12-18-2018, 01:27 PM
Duke was out of scholarships. This frees one up. It will be interesting to see if McCallie pockets this for next season or tries to use it on a 2019 prepster or a transfer.

CameronBornAndBred
12-20-2018, 11:46 PM
I couldn't watch the stream, but I followed the box score. Duke opened the game 11-2. Next time I looked, it was 13-12. After Duke lost the lead, they never got it back. The women lost to Oregon State 57-71.
The stats looked pretty even, but one stood out, and probably was the difference in the win.

Duke was 1-9 from three. Oregon State was 14-29. We attempted less than 10 threes, and missed almost all of them; they hoisted up almost 30 and made just under half. That equates to 3 - 42.

chrishoke
12-28-2018, 06:07 PM
Duke plays at home tonight at 7 vs. ECU. Go Devils.

DU82
12-28-2018, 07:12 PM
Duke plays at home tonight at 7 vs. ECU. Go Devils.

At the first TO, 3:54 left in first, it’s 5-3 Duke. Lots of bad shots taken on both sides.

chrishoke
12-28-2018, 07:51 PM
38-29 Duke at the half. Gorecki leads with 17.

DU82
12-28-2018, 08:26 PM
Better 3rd. 70-45 Duke.

Anybody know where Rayah Craig is? She’s not on the bench tonight.

DukeDad02
12-28-2018, 09:23 PM
Better 3rd. 70-45 Duke.

Anybody know where Rayah Craig is? She’s not on the bench tonight.

Per TDD gone; Violation of University Policy

jimsumner
12-28-2018, 10:00 PM
Per TDD gone; Violation of University Policy

From media release.

"Blue Devil freshman Rayah Craig will not be enrolled at Duke University for the spring 2019 semester due to violation of university policy."

Not a basketball issue.

dudog84
12-29-2018, 08:47 AM
From media release.

"Blue Devil freshman Rayah Craig will not be enrolled at Duke University for the spring 2019 semester due to violation of university policy."

Not a basketball issue.

I was wondering what was going on with her. After scoring 13 points in the opening game and looking like she would be a serious contributor this year, she scored 12 in the next 8 games as her minutes dwindled. And then she didn't play at all in the last game (at Oregon State, don't know if she even made the trip). Hope she gets things straightened out and comes back to the team, mostly for her own sake.

While I'm happy for Haley, I'm getting annoyed that she keeps out-rebounding our entire starting front court by herself.

jimsumner
12-29-2018, 01:25 PM
I was wondering what was going on with her. After scoring 13 points in the opening game and looking like she would be a serious contributor this year, she scored 12 in the next 8 games as her minutes dwindled. And then she didn't play at all in the last game (at Oregon State, don't know if she even made the trip). Hope she gets things straightened out and comes back to the team, mostly for her own sake.

While I'm happy for Haley, I'm getting annoyed that she keeps out-rebounding our entire starting front court by herself.

Craig will not return to Duke.

chrishoke
12-30-2018, 03:59 PM
Duke beats Florida Gulf Coast 57-41 today in Cameron. The team is now 8-4. Jade led all scorers with 17.

CameronBornAndBred
12-30-2018, 04:08 PM
Duke beats Florida Gulf Coast 57-41 today in Cameron. The team is now 8-4. Jade led all scorers with 17.

That's pretty impressive defense. FGC hadn't scored lower than 60 this year.

jimsumner
12-30-2018, 04:24 PM
That's pretty impressive defense. FGC hadn't scored lower than 60 this year.

They came into the game shooting 42 percent on 3s and went 7-for-37. Duke did a good job of closing out on the shooters.

The offense is still a work in progress.

grossbus
12-30-2018, 05:38 PM
Jim, I thought they had plenty of open looks from 3, but they had a difficult time drawing iron.

jimsumner
12-30-2018, 05:42 PM
Jim, I thought they had plenty of open looks from 3, but they had a difficult time drawing iron.

Their coach thought they hurried a bunch. They aren't used to having that much size close on them.

burnspbesq
12-30-2018, 06:31 PM
Was that Jade’s first career double-double? If she can do that on even a semi-regular basis, then our ceiling in ACC play starts to look like more than 8-8.

buddy
12-30-2018, 07:36 PM
Was that Jade’s first career double-double? If she can do that on even a semi-regular basis, then our ceiling in ACC play starts to look like more than 8-8.

It was her first career double-double; however, FGCU does not have a player taller than 5'11". She won't be that lucky in ACC play.

chrishoke
12-30-2018, 07:38 PM
Was that Jade’s first career double-double? If she can do that on even a semi-regular basis, then our ceiling in ACC play starts to look like more than 8-8.

Yes it was. Our next game is at 9th ranked NCS Thursday at 7.

du_bb1
12-30-2018, 08:12 PM
Was at the game-our length certainly bothered the much shorter Eagles, at least one 3 pt shots blocked. Way too many TO's, several as they were trying to feed the post-looked to my untrained eye like a combo of not the best pass and the big not going to the ball. Boykin looked good, seven assists with only one TO. Odom a non factor. Could be a long year.

burnspbesq
01-04-2019, 01:15 AM
Yes, we lost, but there was a lot there from which to take encouragement. We fought. We guarded. We had relatively few turnovers by our standards. We had two nice runs, 12-3 at the end of the first quarter and 13-0 spanning the third and fourth. It was a one possession game with four minutes to go—then State dialed up its D and we took the shots they wanted to give us.

Louisville is next.

Mike Corey
01-04-2019, 01:16 AM
Not good.

CameronBornAndBred
01-04-2019, 08:59 AM
Yes, we lost, but there was a lot there from which to take encouragement. We fought. We guarded. We had relatively few turnovers by our standards. We had two nice runs, 12-3 at the end of the first quarter and 13-0 spanning the third and fourth. It was a one possession game with four minutes to go—then State dialed up its D and we took the shots they wanted to give us.

I agree with this.


Not good.
I disagree with this. As I said in the broadcast thread, "it was a 4 point game going in to the last three minutes, tied at half. Bad time to fall apart, but for the most part, a well played road game against a ranked conference rival."

I was expecting us to be down by double digits at halftime. I am starting to allow myself to find some hope in this team. They won't be great, not by a long shot, but they do have the opportunity to be good as the season progresses.

killerleft
01-04-2019, 09:10 AM
I agree with this.


I disagree with this. As I said in the broadcast thread, "it was a 4 point game going in to the last three minutes, tied at half. Bad time to fall apart, but for the most part, a well played road game against a ranked conference rival."

I was expecting us to be down by double digits at halftime. I am starting to allow myself to find some hope in this team. They won't be great, not by a long shot, but they do have the opportunity to be good as the season progresses.

I'm with you on this. I want to believe, since I'm committed to seeing at least three conference home games this year.:)

Kedsy
01-04-2019, 11:35 AM
I agree with this.


I disagree with this. As I said in the broadcast thread, "it was a 4 point game going in to the last three minutes, tied at half. Bad time to fall apart, but for the most part, a well played road game against a ranked conference rival."

I was expecting us to be down by double digits at halftime. I am starting to allow myself to find some hope in this team. They won't be great, not by a long shot, but they do have the opportunity to be good as the season progresses.

I'm with those who saw a ray of hope in this game. Our defense is strong. Our offense needs work against better teams.

I had high hopes for Jade before the season started, but the game seems a bit too fast for her right now. She might be able to dominate smaller teams like FGCU, but against bigger teams she has to think before she does anything and that's a recipe for travels, dropped passes, and missed layups. She has potential, but I'm not sure I see major improvement coming until the off-season. For now, her role should probably be defensive specialist.

Leaonna seems to get stuck in low gear too often. Especially on offense. But during our runs last night you could see her switch it into high gear and it was a sight to see. If she can throw herself into high gear most of the time, she'll be the player we all know she can be.

Haley has been forcing things way too much on offense and thus has been a very inefficient offensive player. But if some of the others take a step forward offensively, she can relax and become much more effective. Plus her defense last night was really good.

I really like the way Onome runs the floor, though offense seems harder for her when Jade is on the court (so I'm not sure the "two towers" thing is the most effective offensive plan for this team). The game is a little too fast for her, too, but (unlike Jade) I think she has the potential to catch up this season. With Leaonna and Onome filling the lanes and Mikayla leading the break, we could be a strong fast-break team.

Faith does what Faith does. She's never going to be a star but she can defend and make an occasional bucket. As long as we don't have to rely on her for too much, she's fine.

Miela has a sweet shot. She needs to take care of the ball a little better and be more aggressive to be optimally effective. Once she gets used to the greater physicality of the American game, she could be a real plus for the team.

Jayda seemed mostly out-of-control when she was in the game last night. With Rayah gone we don't seem to have a lot of effective depth against stronger opponents.

To me, Mikayla is the main reason for hope. I think she's looked great the past couple games, with excellent-to-amazing court vision. Thus far, her passes have led to turnovers as much as assists, but for the most part they're great thoughts. Once her teammates learn when and how to expect the ball from her, I think our offense could begin to hum a little. And yesterday her threes began to fall, which if she can keep it up adds a new (and to me, unexpected) dimension to her game.

Anyway, it's possible the team gets disheartened and starts playing like they expect to lose, which would be a shame, but I think it's more likely that that they continue to fight and start to gel on offense. In which case (as you say) we have the potential to be a pretty good (but not great) team by the end of the season. Personally, I'm looking forward to watching it happen.

Phredd3
01-04-2019, 12:05 PM
The bummer about last night is that three quarters of excellent effort effectively went to waste based on that final frame. Even a loss could have been an OK thing to have on the team resume if we had kept the score difference to a bucket or, at most, two. As it turned out, the post-season committees, and more importantly the team itself, may have trouble getting a positive message about that game.

And there was a lot that went right, especially on the defensive end. We allowed some wide open looks right at the outset, but after a timeout and a switch to man-to-man, we held down a very good offense. Once we showed a different defensive look, we could switch back to the zone and it could still be effective. State was averaging close to 80 per game, and we held them to 63.

But we really need to have better passing. Six assists in a game is just not going to cut it, and especially not when we have almost three times that number of turnovers. We also need to do something about the rebounding. Being out-rebounded is likely to happen when our offense shoots under 30% from the floor, but we also gave up 14 offensive rebounds to State. That's partly a function of running zone most of the time, but it's also partly because of our technique. Our biggest two front court players grabbed a grand total of 4 rebounds (2 each) in a combined total of 44 minutes. We simply have to have better rebounding production than that.

But we were in range of the ninth-ranked team in the country, so while the final result was disappointing, there really were a lot of positives to take from this game. We aren't too far away from being a competitive team, and we feature only one senior on the roster, so if we do improve, we are likely to see the results carry into next year, as well.

It's a rough start to conference play to face the ninth- and third-ranked teams in the country, but if our defense continues to keep us in games, we're liable to steal a few wins from the unsuspecting before all is said and done.

chrishoke
01-04-2019, 02:22 PM
This is a very likable team that certainly has some potential. I hope folks will rally around them. They need our support.
By the way, the heels stayed with the Cards last night, so their is hope.

jimsumner
01-04-2019, 03:08 PM
Here's what I wrote before the ACC opener.

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22760&SPID=1846&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211785384&DB_OEM_ID=4200

Kfanarmy
01-04-2019, 04:47 PM
Don't get to see them too much here; coverage of Duke WBB is extremely rare these days. I recognize some of the same refrains from years passed however. Good to great defense paired with a struggling offense prone to bad and worse turnover stats. The drift toward the bottom of the ACC seems inexorable.


…The offense is still a work in progress….

Our defense is strong. Our offense needs work against better teams.

At this point, that is Duke Women’s Basketball. It really takes an extremely strong defensive effort for them to win consistently against the better (not best of) NCAA teams. Don’t ever really see them having a great offense or taking great care of the ball on a day-in day-out basis.


In which case (as you say) we have the potential to be a pretty good (but not great) team by the end of the season.
This is a realistic hope. 13 games into the season, they stand 12th of 15 ACC teams. I don’t really see them making the NCAA tourney at this point. Do you?


By the way, the heels stayed with the Cards last night, so their is hope. That UNC can make the tourney?

Hope springs eternal. Maybe Duke can turn the programmatic tide.

jimsumner
01-04-2019, 05:46 PM
Don't get to see them too much here; coverage of Duke WBB is extremely rare these days. I recognize some of the same refrains from years passed however. Good to great defense paired with a struggling offense prone to bad and worse turnover stats. The drift toward the bottom of the ACC seems inexorable.




At this point, that is Duke Women’s Basketball. It really takes an extremely strong defensive effort for them to win consistently against the better (not best of) NCAA teams. Don’t ever really see them having a great offense or taking great care of the ball on a day-in day-out basis.


This is a realistic hope. 13 games into the season, they stand 12th of 15 ACC teams. I don’t really see them making the NCAA tourney at this point. Do you?

That UNC can make the tourney?

Hope springs eternal. Maybe Duke can turn the programmatic tide.

I think this season depends largely on McCallie's coaching abilities. There's a lot of talent on this team. Not Chelsea Gray, Elizabeth Williams-level talent. But enough to go .500 or better in the ACC. But it's a young team, with a point guard who's still learning the job and a very-talented junior forward still prone to taking walk-abouts at the worse time.

This team can be very good if a lot of reasonable scenarios go well. But there's not much wiggle room.

uh_no
01-04-2019, 06:29 PM
I think this season depends largely on McCallie's coaching abilities. There's a lot of talent on this team. Not Chelsea Gray, Elizabeth Williams-level talent. But enough to go .500 or better in the ACC. But it's a young team, with a point guard who's still learning the job and a very-talented junior forward still prone to taking walk-abouts at the worse time.

This team can be very good if a lot of reasonable scenarios go well. But there's not much wiggle room.

well put.

throatybeard
01-04-2019, 06:39 PM
ESPN Bracketology has us out right now, "next four" out.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-05-2019, 09:17 AM
I think this season depends largely on McCallie's coaching abilities.

Then this team is in a lot of trouble. ‘Nuf said.

ehdg
01-05-2019, 12:11 PM
I think this season depends largely on McCallie's coaching abilities. There's a lot of talent on this team. Not Chelsea Gray, Elizabeth Williams-level talent. But enough to go .500 or better in the ACC. But it's a young team, with a point guard who's still learning the job and a very-talented junior forward still prone to taking walk-abouts at the worse time.

This team can be very good if a lot of reasonable scenarios go well. But there's not much wiggle room.

Hate to say this but I don't see this team making the Dance. I'm still not sold on McCallie and her coaching abilities. I'm still in the camp that wonders why she wasn't replaced when her coaching was being questioned and reviewed either last year or the year before. I was quite surprised that she was retained then and not dismissed/replaced at that time.

uh_no
01-05-2019, 12:33 PM
Hate to say this but I don't see this team making the Dance. I'm still not sold on McCallie and her coaching abilities. I'm still in the camp that wonders why she wasn't replaced when her coaching was being questioned and reviewed either last year or the year before. I was quite surprised that she was retained then and not dismissed/replaced at that time.

at the time she would have had to be bought out. The extension made less sense to me...but she also seemed to have made some changes and was having a good year....

...and then she lied about the chronicle misquoting her.

anyway

WRT tournament prospects, it's going to be an uphill battle for duke. They are currently 0-3 against teams Creme at-large tournament teams. The upside of the ACC, however, is you get looots of opportunities to beat tournament teams. UL, miami, FSU, syrause, VT, ND. Duke needs to win a couple of those, and even then, 2-7 against at-large teams is not a great look. However, if they avoid losses to the rest of the league, and a couple of those other teams have some bad losses, Duke can certainly move in. The problem is that Duke hasn't showed a propensity to beat teams that they ought thus far. The losses to NW, washington don't look great, and the closer-than-they-ought-to-have-been games against maine and perhaps even marist, give me reserve.


If I had to put a pie on it, i'd say out. If losing by 12 to state is what we're hanging our hat on at this point in the season, it's not promising.

CameronBornAndBred
01-05-2019, 02:19 PM
at the time she would have had to be bought out. The extension made less sense to me...but she also seemed to have made some changes and was having a good year...


Yup. Her contract runs through 2020 and this season will be a very good test of her true coaching ability. With a decent but not elite class coming in next year, I can see Dr. White giving her the opportunity to run the course, but if this current team under performs lowered expectations, I could also see him making a change.
There is no denying that recruiting has gone down. Coach P regularly brought in top classes, but that is no longer the case. Currently, for the second year in a row, we don't have any 5* signees. You can be the best coach on the planet, but you can't win in women's basketball without elite players.

http://www.espn.com/high-school/girls-basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/150/class/2019

Phredd3
01-06-2019, 08:59 AM
You can be the best coach on the planet, but you can't win in women's basketball without elite players.
Is a hanging antecedent a grammatical error?

chrishoke
01-06-2019, 02:26 PM
The Cards hit 4 of their first 5 threes - Duke steadies the ship a bit but trails 18-11 after one quarter.

chrishoke
01-06-2019, 03:10 PM
35-23 Cards at half.

chrishoke
01-06-2019, 03:27 PM
15 first half TOs. Unreal.

burnspbesq
01-06-2019, 03:58 PM
15 first half TOs. Unreal.

Not at all. Louisville is an elite defensive team. They will do that to better teams than Duke.

That said, it would be nice if Goreki would stop trying to play heroine ball. Repeatedly driving into the teeth of the defense is not a winning strategy.

chrishoke
01-06-2019, 04:06 PM
Not at all. Louisville is an elite defensive team. They will do that to better teams than Duke.

That said, it would be nice if Goreki would stop trying to play heroine ball. Repeatedly driving into the teeth of the defense is not a winning strategy.

Elite or not, at least 10 TOs were unforced, trying to make plays that were obviously not there - similar to the Gorecki drives you mention. It's hard not to blame it on poor coaching.

chrishoke
01-06-2019, 04:08 PM
Final 73-51 bad guys. Good crowd in Cameron to see the debacle.

buddy
01-06-2019, 04:26 PM
16 made shots, 24 turnovers is a guaranteed prescription for losing. Had several chances to make it a game, but every time we turned the ball over or forced an unmakeable shot. Our post play is awful. Jade had 7 points and 7 turnovers. She seems to have little court sense, can't feel the double team coming. Haley forced absolutely everything. Leonna decided to play today, and did for three quarters, then went on walk-about. Can't blame her, she wasn't getting much help. Besides the failures of coaching I do not see any leadership on this team. I will be shocked if we are not in the play-in round of the ACCT. I would like to be wrong, but no matter how good Louisville is (and they are good) I have rarely seen a Duke team get dominated so handily at home. It's gonna be a LOOONNNGGG season.

chrishoke
01-06-2019, 04:42 PM
16 made shots, 24 turnovers is a guaranteed prescription for losing. Had several chances to make it a game, but every time we turned the ball over or forced an unmakeable shot. Our post play is awful. Jade had 7 points and 7 turnovers. She seems to have little court sense, can't feel the double team coming. Haley forced absolutely everything. Leonna decided to play today, and did for three quarters, then went on walk-about. Can't blame her, she wasn't getting much help. Besides the failures of coaching I do not see any leadership on this team. I will be shocked if we are not in the play-in round of the ACCT. I would like to be wrong, but no matter how good Louisville is (and they are good) I have rarely seen a Duke team get dominated so handily at home. It's gonna be a LOOONNNGGG season.

Good summary, unfortunately.

CameronBornAndBred
01-06-2019, 06:59 PM
The Cards hit 4 of their first 5 threes

I was not able to watch, but I can tell a lot by the box score, and again, threes are a big part of the story. Louisville hit 50% of their threes, 12-24. Duke? We took a mere 13 attempts, and made only 2 of them.
That is a scoring difference of 36-6, a huge 30 point gap that is very hard to make up.

I don't know what our season 3 point shooting percentage is, but a quick look at a few box scores says it can't be above 30%.

Kedsy
01-07-2019, 12:14 AM
I don't know what our season 3 point shooting percentage is, but a quick look at a few box scores says it can't be above 30%.

Including tonight's game, our season 3-pt shooting pct is 32%. Our opponents are shooting 31%.

CameronBornAndBred
01-07-2019, 12:32 AM
Including tonight's game, our season 3-pt shooting pct is 32%. Our opponents are shooting 31%.

Thanks much. One is more surprising than the other. (The former, not the latter.)
I love our D. But, (without looking anything up), I'd guess that the opponents numbers are skewed. Take out the teams that we are "supposed" to beat, and I'd bet that 31% is much higher. Heading into ACC season, that is important.
If it weren't for the defense the women play now, some of those games would be depressing blowouts. We are now entering play that if we don't match the defense with offense, those blowouts are going to come to a sad fruition. And I'm an optimist, believe me!

jv001
01-07-2019, 10:38 AM
Thanks much. One is more surprising than the other. (The former, not the latter.)
I love our D. But, (without looking anything up), I'd guess that the opponents numbers are skewed. Take out the teams that we are "supposed" to beat, and I'd bet that 31% is much higher. Heading into ACC season, that is important.
If it weren't for the defense the women play now, some of those games would be depressing blowouts. We are now entering play that if we don't match the defense with offense, those blowouts are going to come to a sad fruition. And I'm an optimist, believe me!

I know you are an optimist and I respect you for it. You know more about Duke Women's BB than me and it shows in your posts. To me it seems that recruiting has been going down hill for a while now and it hit rock bottom right about the time Coach P was investigated by the Duke Administration. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The players that could put points on the board and could handle the basketball quit coming to Duke. Was it because of our coach or some other reason. I'd really like to know. GoDuke!

CameronBornAndBred
01-07-2019, 10:52 AM
I know you are an optimist and I respect you for it. You know more about Duke Women's BB than me and it shows in your posts. To me it seems that recruiting has been going down hill for a while now and it hit rock bottom right about the time Coach P was investigated by the Duke Administration. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The players that could put points on the board and could handle the basketball quit coming to Duke. Was it because of our coach or some other reason. I'd really like to know. GoDuke!

You are totally correct, and it is something I pointed out earlier in this thread.



There is no denying that recruiting has gone down. Coach P regularly brought in top classes, but that is no longer the case. Currently, for the second year in a row, we don't have any 5* signees. You can be the best coach on the planet, but you can't win in women's basketball without elite players.


I think there a couple of factors, and the investigation was definitely one of them. Another was our transfers, and past players, vocally speaking out against Coach P. If you are a recruit, or a parent of one, you are paying attention to what others are saying, and when you hear negativity coming from those who have been in the program, the chances of you ignoring it is slim to none.
I think a third factor, and perhaps the greatest one, is that our best recruiters left.
We lost both Trisha Stafford-Odom (whom after she left for the same job at Carolina I have few good things to say about) and Joy Cheek. Both were excellent at recruiting and I feel a big reason we landed so many top classes. To put it in perspective, they were to the women's team what Jeff Capel was to the men's.
Since Cheek took a job at Ohio State, our recruiting hasn't been the same.
Side note, if P's contract doesn't get renewed, I hope Dr. White takes a look at Coach Cheek. Currently she is an assistant at Clemson.

jv001
01-07-2019, 11:04 AM
You are totally correct, and it is something I pointed out earlier in this thread.



I think there a couple of factors, and the investigation was definitely one of them. Another was our transfers, and past players, vocally speaking out against Coach P. If you are a recruit, or a parent of one, you are paying attention to what others are saying, and when you hear negativity coming from those who have been in the program, the chances of you ignoring it is slim to none.
I think a third factor, and perhaps the greatest one, is that our best recruiters left.
We lost both Trisha Stafford-Odom (whom after she left for the same job at Carolina I have few good things to say about) and Joy Cheek. Both were excellent at recruiting and I feel a big reason we landed so many top classes. To put it in perspective, they were to the women's team what Jeff Capel was to the men's.
Since Cheek took a job at Ohio State, our recruiting hasn't been the same.
Side note, if P's contract doesn't get renewed, I hope Dr. White takes a look at Coach Cheek. Currently she is an assistant at Clemson.

Thanks for the insight. I had forgotten about he transfers. One of our best players moving on to UConn. I also seem to remember something being said that Coach P admitted not liking the recruiting side of the job. GoDuke!

uh_no
01-07-2019, 11:09 AM
You are totally correct, and it is something I pointed out earlier in this thread.



I think there a couple of factors, and the investigation was definitely one of them. Another was our transfers, and past players, vocally speaking out against Coach P. If you are a recruit, or a parent of one, you are paying attention to what others are saying, and when you hear negativity coming from those who have been in the program, the chances of you ignoring it is slim to none.
I think a third factor, and perhaps the greatest one, is that our best recruiters left.
We lost both Trisha Stafford-Odom (whom after she left for the same job at Carolina I have few good things to say about) and Joy Cheek. Both were excellent at recruiting and I feel a big reason we landed so many top classes. To put it in perspective, they were to the women's team what Jeff Capel was to the men's.
Since Cheek took a job at Ohio State, our recruiting hasn't been the same.
Side note, if P's contract doesn't get renewed, I hope Dr. White takes a look at Coach Cheek. Currently she is an assistant at Clemson.

They aren't the only two assistants who left in largely lateral moves.

Joy Cheek, assistant at Ohio State
Trisha Stafford-Odom, assistant at UNC
Samantha Williams, assistant at Louisville
Shannon Perry, assistant at UCLA

(https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-31340.html)

Phredd3
01-07-2019, 11:35 AM
I had forgotten about the transfers. One of our best players moving on to UConn.

I think that Azura's leaving may have been more damaging than the investigation. The latter was largely internal and not widely publicized outside the triangle, but Azura's public statement on why she transferred boiled down to her saying that she needed a good basketball education and she wasn't getting it at Duke. That makes Duke a tough sell to any player who is primarily focused on pursuing a basketball career after graduation, and we are finally in an era where that's what elite women players are actually doing.

jimsumner
01-07-2019, 12:11 PM
Had Duke opened with say, Boston College and Wake Forest and started 2-0, we're having a different discussion. Opening with two undefeated top-10 teams is pretty tough.

That said, Duke's defense is still way ahead of its offense. The D was pretty solid against Louisville until it became garbage time.

But the offense lacks cohesion and flow and Duke has to fix that.

We're all familiar with the adage "take what the defensive gives you." A lot of Duke's turnovers come from ignoring that, forcing things, making bad decisions, either not trusting or not understanding your teammates.

Let me give an example from yesterday. Second half, Duke ball, Devils trying to get into transition. Boykin throws a 60-foot cross-court pass to Jade Williams about 20 feet from the basket. She promptly travels.

This would be a good play if the pass was to Gorecki, Odom or Goodchild.

But not to Williams. And not because of the high likelihood of turnover. Because even if she doesn't turn it over, she's not the player who is going to exploit the situation. She's not going to knock down a 3 or drive 20 feet to the basket in traffic.

It's a high-risk, low-reward play. Duke has too many of those. They need to simplify not complicate.

Boykin's development is the key to the season, IMO. She's smart, motivated, skilled and absolutely committed to helping her team win.

But this is a player who averaged 38 points per game as a high-school senior.

No criticism from me. If I'm the coach at Clinton High, I'm darn well going to want Boykin taking as many shots as she can. That's how you win state championships. Which they did.

But then she comes to Duke and has to blend in with a lineup that features two ball-dominant alpha grad-students and she never looked like she had found her niche before suffering a season-ending knee injury.

You know those summer pickup games, where you learn about yourself and your teammates?

Scratch that. She's on crutches.

Fall practice? She's on the sidelines, working on her rehab.

So, she gets healthy and is thrown into the fray in the middle of the season. It's trial by fire and there have been some pretty big bumps in the road. And it works the other way, too. Her teammates haven't played with her enough to do those instinctual things that good teams do.

They're still in the getting-to-know-you-phase of the relationship against teams that are well past that.

Can Duke smooth out those bumps before falling so far down the rabbit hole that they can't climb back?

The GT game Thursday on the road is a big one. Very winnable, very losable. Duke can survive a 1-2 start. An 0-3 start and a lot of 50-50 games become must-win games. Duke has to get its turnover issues under control to win these games.

Big picture? I think next season will be the key for McCallie. Faith Suggs is Duke's only rotation player using up her eligibility this season, Lambert (knock on wood, fingers crossed, offerings to the basketball gods), comes back hale and hearty and Duke adds some solid recruits to an experienced foundation.

Losing Treece and Craig frees up two scholarships and Duke is looking at grad-student transfers, traditional transfers, international players. The investigation a few years back did set back recruiting and Duke is still in recovery mode.

So, a lot of moving parts. But Duke has some winnable games coming up and the short-term goal is to get those wins and build up some momentum for a stretch run.

Kedsy
01-07-2019, 12:16 PM
I love our D. But, (without looking anything up), I'd guess that the opponents numbers are skewed. Take out the teams that we are "supposed" to beat, and I'd bet that 31% is much higher. Heading into ACC season, that is important.

I think you're on to something.

In our six losses, opponents have shot 40.8% from three, on 26.2 three-attempts per game (including 16 of 34 by Missouri; 14 of 29 by Oregon State; and 12 for 24 by Louisville).

In our eight wins, opponents have shot 23.1% from three, on 23.3 three-attempts per game.

burnspbesq
01-07-2019, 09:02 PM
In fairness to P, one of the recruiting losses that had us all scratching our heads at the time turns out to have been pretty inevitable. I didn’t know at the time that Bella Alarie’s grandfather was a Princeton grad and had instilled a love for the place in her from a very early age.

There was also some doubt at the time as to whether she was an ACC-caliber talent, but I think that’s been pretty conclusively dispelled.

CameronBornAndBred
01-07-2019, 09:05 PM
In fairness to P, one of the recruiting losses that had us all scratching our heads at the time turns out to have been pretty inevitable. I didn’t know at the time that Bella Alarie’s grandfather was a Princeton grad and had instilled a love for the place in her from a very early age.

There was also some doubt at the time as to whether she was an ACC-caliber talent, but I think that’s been pretty conclusively dispelled.

I'm confused. How is it a loss if you don't even try? P never offered.

bluedevilsince72
01-07-2019, 09:29 PM
But how did we rebound? This is the biggest obsession for Coach P for years. We outrebounded them 39-34. Seems like a hugely important stat?!?!?!

When will the embarrassment end? How far does the program have to fall? After watching almost every game for 15 years, I haven't been to a game in 4 years and wont attend another game until P is gone.

chrishoke
01-10-2019, 06:38 PM
Big game tonight at 7 at GT. Anybody watching\following\caring? GO DEVILS.

chrishoke
01-10-2019, 08:53 PM
Turn out the lights, the party's over.

Mike Corey
01-10-2019, 08:57 PM
Not good.

DU82
01-10-2019, 08:57 PM
Turn out the lights, the party's over.

Down 17, Mikayla hits a half court heave at the end of the third to turn momentum. Duke cuts the lead to one, then couldn’t get a basket and gives GT an and one to let them go back up but two possessions Too many mistakes, too many missed opportunities. Not enough offense, even with the spurt in the fourth quarter.

CameronBornAndBred
01-10-2019, 09:16 PM
That was a great comeback, but ultimately, that was not a good loss.
At all.

Side note, the GT Pea Green court has to be the ugliest in basketball. For a while I was wondering if my TV was out of whack.

Steven43
01-10-2019, 09:26 PM
But how did we rebound? This is the biggest obsession for Coach P for years. We outrebounded them 39-34. Seems like a hugely important stat?!?!?!

When will the embarrassment end? How far does the program have to fall? After watching almost every game for 15 years, I haven't been to a game in 4 years and wont attend another game until P is gone.
Well, it has been nearly three years and I'm still trying to understand how Coach McCallie survived the investigation and remains head coach at Duke. Recruiting has fallen off dramatically. On-court results have nosedived. Coach McCallie's reputation has been sullied and the program is tainted. Assistants leave for equivalent positions. Former players badmouth the program and coach. I'm frankly just baffled by this whole thing. I have never seen a coach survive this many major hits. And it's not as if she has achieved the kind of on-court success -- multiple national championships or something similar -- that would normally be necessary for a coach to keep from getting axed in a situation this dire. I have been shaking my head in disbelief since the decision was handed down by Kevin White. Does anyone have an explanation for this that actually makes sense? Thanks.

chrishoke
01-10-2019, 09:30 PM
Before tonight, Duke had won 18 of the last 19 against GT.

arnie
01-10-2019, 09:38 PM
Well, it has been nearly three years and I'm still trying to understand how Coach McCallie survived the investigation and remains head coach at Duke. Recruiting has fallen off dramatically. On-court results have nosedived. Coach McCallie's reputation has been sullied and the program is tainted. Assistants leave for equivalent positions. Former players badmouth the program and coach. I'm frankly just baffled by this whole thing. I have never seen a coach survive this many major hits. And it's not as if she has achieved the kind of on-court success -- multiple national championships or something similar -- that would normally be necessary for a coach to keep from getting axed in a situation this dire. I have been shaking my head in disbelief since the decision was handed down by Kevin White. Does anyone have an explanation for this that actually makes sense? Thanks.

She only makes a little over $1 million a year in a sport that loses money at a school with a boatload of money😀. I’d guess the AD hopes nobody notices. I think she’s got the job through 2020-2021 season and then quietly moves on.

dukelifer
01-10-2019, 09:46 PM
Well, it has been nearly three years and I'm still trying to understand how Coach McCallie survived the investigation and remains head coach at Duke. Recruiting has fallen off dramatically. On-court results have nosedived. Coach McCallie's reputation has been sullied and the program is tainted. Assistants leave for equivalent positions. Former players badmouth the program and coach. I'm frankly just baffled by this whole thing. I have never seen a coach survive this many major hits. And it's not as if she has achieved the kind of on-court success -- multiple national championships or something similar -- that would normally be necessary for a coach to keep from getting axed in a situation this dire. I have been shaking my head in disbelief since the decision was handed down by Kevin White. Does anyone have an explanation for this that actually makes sense? Thanks.
Wasn’t Duke in the ACC finals 2 years ago? This is going to be a bad year for sure but it is not like the program has fallen off the map. Injuries have killed recent seasons.

msdukie
01-10-2019, 11:00 PM
Side note, the GT Pea Green court has to be the ugliest in basketball. For a while I was wondering if my TV was out of whack.

I can think of two in Chapel Hell that are far worse.

msdukie
01-10-2019, 11:04 PM
Wasn’t Duke in the ACC finals 2 years ago? This is going to be a bad year for sure but it is not like the program has fallen off the map. Injuries have killed recent seasons.

I wouldn't call beating a 6 seed and 7 seed and then getting blown out by a 1 seed in the title game is not an example of not falling off the map. Remember, she was hired to bring championships (including the big one) to Duke. Duke hasn't won any kind of championship since 2013 and from 2008-2013 was not at the level as when she took the program over. There has been a substantial slide from the 2013 level, including what appears to be 2 NCAA misses in the last 4 years, which, quite frankly, should never happen to Duke with the parity of women's basketball.

Kedsy
01-10-2019, 11:20 PM
I was proud of the team during the comeback. Just dug too deep a hole.

This team doesn't look poorly coached to me. Sometimes they just don't execute.

There has definitely been a recruiting slide the last couple of years. I'm not convinced a new coach will fix that, though I suppose it depends on the coach.

CameronBornAndBred
01-10-2019, 11:43 PM
I can think of two in Chapel Hell that are far worse.
I sporked you for this one.


I wouldn't call beating a 6 seed and 7 seed and then getting blown out by a 1 seed in the title game is not an example of not falling off the map. Remember, she was hired to bring championships (including the big one) to Duke. Duke hasn't won any kind of championship since 2013 and from 2008-2013 was not at the level as when she took the program over. There has been a substantial slide from the 2013 level, including what appears to be 2 NCAA misses in the last 4 years, which, quite frankly, should never happen to Duke with the parity of women's basketball.

This one was way more deserving.

Mike Corey
01-10-2019, 11:45 PM
— Duke is 0-3 in the ACC for the first time since 1992-93, Goestenkors’ first year.
— After 15 games, Duke is 8-7. That is the worst record after 15 games since 1983-84.

uh_no
01-11-2019, 12:43 AM
There has definitely been a recruiting slide the last couple of years. I'm not convinced a new coach will fix that, though I suppose it depends on the coach.

We have evidence that there exist coaches who can bring top talent to durham. If you're a top recruit, why would you look at duke right now?

I agree that there is no evidence that THIS season's issues are more a coaching issue than any other, but X/Os aren't everything...and recruiting is a huge part of college sports.

Kedsy
01-11-2019, 10:16 AM
We have evidence that there exist coaches who can bring top talent to durham. If you're a top recruit, why would you look at duke right now?

And they brought that top talent here working in tandem with Coach P. Your question assumes the reason the top recruits haven't signed with Duke the past couple years is they don't want to play for Coach P (if there are other reasons that would repel them now but attract them with a new coach, I can't think what they might be). As I said, I'm not convinced.

uh_no
01-11-2019, 11:02 AM
Your question assumes the reason the top recruits haven't signed with Duke the past couple years is they don't want to play for Coach P

That is absolutely correct. As a top prospect, why would you go to a program that routinely misses the tournament, especially under the coach that over saw a program falling from a final four contender to a state where it is regularly missing the tournament.

We agree an awful lot, and while I find your commitment to postivity about the women's program admirable, I think you have your head in the sand on this one.

dukelifer
01-11-2019, 11:38 AM
I wouldn't call beating a 6 seed and 7 seed and then getting blown out by a 1 seed in the title game is not an example of not falling off the map. Remember, she was hired to bring championships (including the big one) to Duke. Duke hasn't won any kind of championship since 2013 and from 2008-2013 was not at the level as when she took the program over. There has been a substantial slide from the 2013 level, including what appears to be 2 NCAA misses in the last 4 years, which, quite frankly, should never happen to Duke with the parity of women's basketball.

Yes- she has not brought championships but come on. Since 2013- they finished 2nd twice and 4th twice in the conference, and got to a Sweet 16. The team has had double digit losses only 2 of those years and finished in the top 10 nationally twice. Yes the program is not high-end elite but it is not awful. I agree that P should not be renewed - I think some new blood is needed- but injuries have really hurt this program recently. Since 2011, K has only won 1 ACC Conference or regular season championship and went to the FF once. If not for the NC in 2015- one could make a case that the men's team is in similar decline.

arnie
01-11-2019, 12:14 PM
Yes- she has not brought championships but come on. Since 2013- they finished 2nd twice and 4th twice in the conference, and got to a Sweet 16. The team has had double digit losses only 2 of those years and finished in the top 10 nationally twice. Yes the program is not high-end elite but it is not awful. I agree that P should not be renewed - I think some new blood is needed- but injuries have really hurt this program recently. Since 2011, K has only won 1 ACC Conference or regular season championship and went to the FF once. If not for the NC in 2015- one could make a case that the men's team is in similar decline.

Similar decline??? What? Does K have losing ACC record this year and nobody told me?

CameronBornAndBred
01-11-2019, 12:33 PM
If not for the NC in 2015- one could make a case that the men's team is in similar decline.

We are literally the number one team in the country. We lost in the Elite 8 last year, to #4 Kansas by 4 points. How is that a decline?

Kedsy
01-11-2019, 02:11 PM
That is absolutely correct. As a top prospect, why would you go to a program that routinely misses the tournament, especially under the coach that over saw a program falling from a final four contender to a state where it is regularly missing the tournament.

We agree an awful lot, and while I find your commitment to postivity about the women's program admirable, I think you have your head in the sand on this one.

My head may be in the sand, but taking something that happened in 2016 and then (maybe) again in 2019 (and at no other time since long before Coach P arrived at Duke) and describing it as "routinely" or "regularly" occurring would appear to be severely overstating your case.

dukelifer
01-11-2019, 02:21 PM
We are literally the number one team in the country. We lost in the Elite 8 last year, to #4 Kansas by 4 points. How is that a decline?

Knowing the fan base- being number 1 now and not in the FF in April- there will be some folks wondering why we are not recruiting long term players- etc etc. My point is that using championships as the main measure of success - one can skew the interpretation of a program. I want to be clear that I am not disappointed as Duke fan - even if we do not reach a FF this season. I also think getting an ACC championship and not a FF is still a good season- but I am probably in the minority.

Kedsy
01-11-2019, 03:28 PM
My point is that using championships as the main measure of success - one can skew the interpretation of a program.

I think someone's view depends on when they began their fandom. If you were at Duke (or started rooting for Duke) in the 1970s or early 1980s (as I was), the idea that anything-short-of-a-national-championship-is-a-failure was laughable. Every achievement was celebrated because those achievements were rare and precious. It can be (and has been) persuasively argued that Coach K's success (and to a lesser extent Coach G's) severely spoiled the younger segment of the Duke fan base.

uh_no
01-11-2019, 05:35 PM
My head may be in the sand, but taking something that happened in 2016 and then (maybe) again in 2019 (and at no other time since long before Coach P arrived at Duke) and describing it as "routinely" or "regularly" occurring would appear to be severely overstating your case.

I think you're undervaluing the importance of making the tournament for top women's programs. I think the distribution and impact of top recruits in women's basketball is greater than that in men. The degree to which the "impact" distribution falls off is much greater, So the school choices of those players is very important. It turns out those players simply don't go to teams that regularly miss the tournament. Looking at the landing places for top recruits, they fall in two categories:

Schools that never miss the tournament ever: (last miss)

stanford: 1987
TN: 1981
Baylor: 2003
ND: 1995
Connecticut: 1988

Schools that got a coach who built a program recently from regularly missing the tournament to rarely missing ever:
USC: 2011 (dawn staley got them there in her to the tourney in her fourth year and hasn't missed since)
MD: 2010 (Frese's only miss since her first year)
OSU: 2014 (McGuff's first year)
Mississippi State: 2014 (Schaefer's second year)
Louisville: 2010 (Walz's second season)
Syracuse: 2012 (Hillsman turned them from consistently missing to going every year)
Missouri: 2015 (program was awful under stein and hasn't missed since)
texas: 2014 (Aston's first season)

This encompasses the top 10 recruits each of the last two years. What does it say that Duke will have missed the tournament twice since any program on that list has missed? That's not a good look. Top players simply don't go to programs that miss the tournament. The data is pretty damning. best player this year is #77, best player next year is #58. These are good kids, but not the kind of recruits that are going to take this program out of the relative doldrums.

The bar has lowered from title, to final four, to now just making the tournament.

The program is not getting recruits, and the program is not winning.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-12-2019, 10:45 AM
...

The bar has lowered from title, to final four, to now just making the tournament.

The program is not getting recruits, and the program is not winning.

Just like the men's program.

Mike Corey
01-12-2019, 11:32 AM
Since 2011, K has only won 1 ACC Conference or regular season championship and went to the FF once. If not for the NC in 2015- one could make a case that the men's team is in similar decline.

You could make a case, but it would be unpersuasive.

chrishoke
01-12-2019, 12:14 PM
The Duke men's BB program is the #1 program in college BB by just about any measure.

The Duke women's BB program under Coach G was a top 10, arguably a top 5 program measured in term of recruiting and results.

Where would folks rank our women's program now. I would say top 40 and falling.

CameronBornAndBred
01-12-2019, 12:36 PM
The Duke women's BB program under Coach G was a top 10, arguably a top 5 program measured in term of recruiting and results.

Where would folks rank our women's program now. I would say top 40 and falling.

Team wise, we are not in the top 40. This is an expected down year, however.
Program wise, I would say top 30, and falling. This is born out in landing lesser recruits more than wins and losses. I have no doubt that Duke can get back to being an elite program. New blood selling Duke as a program on the rebound is more than possible. A prime example is Texas, ironically led by Coach G into waters that Duke is now treading. They are a top team again. (Currently ranked 11, with both losses to top 10 teams.)
There is no denying that Coach P has overseen the gradual decline of DWBB. Yes, there have been some successes in the last 5 years, but not enough to stave off the slippery slope, and it is getting very slippery.

As I've said before...bring on Coach Joy Cheek! :cool: :D

dukelifer
01-12-2019, 01:37 PM
You could make a case, but it would be unpersuasive.

Perhaps. There are a lot of folks who see one FF in 8 years as a failure of Duke's program. Some have argued that K's reliance on one and done players has been the problem. Duke's program is still relevant but it is not winning championships of any kind or getting to the FF at the same rate as other top programs in recent years. Fair - probably not- but one can easily be critical.

uh_no
01-12-2019, 02:04 PM
[not] getting to the FF at the same rate as other top programs in recent years

Like who? In the past 5 years

UK: 2
UNC: 2
Duke: 1
Nova: 2
Kansas: 1
UCLA: 0
Michigan State: 1
Wisconsin: 2

Quite the failure to have fallen 1 behind a couple schools. Fortunately, our failure as a men's program doesn't seem to have deterred top recruits in the same way it has for the women.

The men's game changed. The age of dynastic runs of final four after final four is over.

Mike Corey
01-12-2019, 10:52 PM
Perhaps. There are a lot of folks who see one FF in 8 years as a failure of Duke's program. Some have argued that K's reliance on one and done players has been the problem. Duke's program is still relevant but it is not winning championships of any kind or getting to the FF at the same rate as other top programs in recent years. Fair - probably not- but one can easily be critical.

Please stop.

Kfanarmy
01-14-2019, 11:54 AM
Just like the men's program.

I don't get the point of this comment? Help?

uh_no
01-14-2019, 12:41 PM
I don't get the point of this comment? Help?

mtn.devil is usually pretty reasonable, so I'm going to assume he was being sarcastic.

CamrnCrz1974
01-14-2019, 02:33 PM
Back on topic...

— Duke WBB is 0-3 in the ACC for the first time since 1992-93, Goestenkors’ first year.
— After 15 games, Duke is 8-7. That is the worst record after 15 games since 1983-84.
— We have three McDonald’s All-Americans on the roster (though one is injured), plus two other players who were Gatorade POY in their respective states in high school.

People can discuss the reasons for the decline in the program, but the fact remains she took over a program in 2007 that was the third-best in the nation at the time (behind UConn and Tennessee) and was coming off a decade that included 7 Elite Eight appearances and 4 Final Fours.

On the court, the record against Top 5, Top 10, and Top 25 opponents has been significantly worse. The postseason finishes have been increasingly worse, including missing the NCAAT a few years before with multiple MCDAA players on the roster.

Off the court, transfers has been plenty. And one of the three best players of the Coach P era (and a player with a retired jersey) submitted a complaint to the program that led to the investigation. Elizabeth Williams reportedly wrote a letter to administrators expressing concerns about the program, describing the program's atmosphere with McCallie at the helm as "negative."

Kedsy
01-14-2019, 04:47 PM
Back on topic...

— Duke WBB is 0-3 in the ACC for the first time since 1992-93, Goestenkors’ first year.
— After 15 games, Duke is 8-7. That is the worst record after 15 games since 1983-84.
— We have three McDonald’s All-Americans on the roster (though one is injured), plus two other players who were Gatorade POY in their respective states in high school.

People can discuss the reasons for the decline in the program, but the fact remains she took over a program in 2007 that was the third-best in the nation at the time (behind UConn and Tennessee) and was coming off a decade that included 7 Elite Eight appearances and 4 Final Fours.

On the court, the record against Top 5, Top 10, and Top 25 opponents has been significantly worse. The postseason finishes have been increasingly worse, including missing the NCAAT a few years before with multiple MCDAA players on the roster.

Off the court, transfers has been plenty. And one of the three best players of the Coach P era (and a player with a retired jersey) submitted a complaint to the program that led to the investigation. Elizabeth Williams reportedly wrote a letter to administrators expressing concerns about the program, describing the program's atmosphere with McCallie at the helm as "negative."

How is this, "Back on topic"?

CameronBornAndBred
01-14-2019, 05:16 PM
How is this, "Back on topic"?

Talking about the decline of DWBB in the WBB thread is more on topic than talking about the "decline" of the men's program in the WBB thread.

I thought CC'74's post was a pretty decent retrospective.

Kedsy
01-14-2019, 05:35 PM
I thought CC'74's post was a pretty decent retrospective.

OK. I thought CC74's post was a tired re-hash of what he or she (and others) have been spitefully spouting for years. But to-may-to, to-mah-to, I suppose.

CamrnCrz1974
01-14-2019, 06:06 PM
OK. I thought CC74's post was a tired re-hash of what he or she (and others) have been spitefully spouting for years. But to-may-to, to-mah-to, I suppose.

To respond to your original post, it was "back on topic" in the sense that it referenced Duke women's basketball (not men's basketball) and discussed the current record after the last game.

Second, it is unclear how posting the 2018-19 overall and ACC records as well as the state of the program is "a tired re-hash" of what I have "spitefully spouting for years." These are the program's current records, put into context, as well as the current state of the program.

But if you want to believe that this is a "tired re-hash" of what I and others have been posting for years, that really is a sign of that the program has been in a very steady decline for a good number of years. The latest evidence of this is that in the latest AP poll, Clemson (three) is getting more votes than Duke (zero).
https://apnews.com/afs:Content:2947360259

Kedsy
01-14-2019, 06:56 PM
But if you want to believe that this is a "tired re-hash" of what I and others have been posting for years, that really is a sign of that the program has been in a very steady decline for a good number of years.

To me, it really is a sign that the people who don't like Coach P have been complaining about it for far too long. And with far too much vitriol.

I want to watch games, root for my favorite team, and then have a legitimate basketball conversation about the games and the season.

In my opinion, the incessant whining by the anti-P crowd about the fact that she's still coach doesn't do anything for anybody.

CamrnCrz1974
01-14-2019, 07:00 PM
I received a private message on this site, asking me about "the comparison of the GG's last 8 or 9 years with the current coach's complete tenure in meaningful measurements like record vs. top 5, 10, and 25 teams, ACC championships, NCAA tourney record, elite 8 appearances, FF appearances, and NC games." The messenger also stated, "If you have this info, pls post with other meaningful comparisons.This info would powerfully support your position."

I have the information for the last 7 years of the Goestenkors era vs. the first 11 years year of Coach P's tenure, not including this season.

Now, one could argue that using the last 7 seasons of Coach Gail Goestenkors' tenure at Duke is selectively including certain years and excluding others. To make the comparison more fair, I will have a second comparison to include three additional years -- the last decade of Coach G vs. 11 years of Coach P.

As far as ranked opponents, I have previously compared the last year years of Coach G's tenure with Coach P's 8+ years (data was compiled in February 2016). That information is at the end; I will have to update it to have a comparison of the last 10 years of Coach G with the first 11 years of Coach P.

OVERALL RECORD (last 7 years of Gail Goestenkors vs. 11 years of Joanne P. McCallie, not including this season):
Goestenkors: 220-25 (89.79 percent)
McCallie: 297-80 (78.77 percent)

ACC RECORD (last 7 years of Goestenkors vs. 11 years of Coach P, not including this season):
Goestenkors: 98-8 (92.45 percent)
McCallie: 132-38 (77.65 percent)

ACC FINISHES (last 7 years of Goestenkors vs. 11 years of Coach P, not including this season):
Goestenkors: 6 regular season ACC titles, 4 ACCT championships, 6 years finishing #1, 1 year finishing #2
McCallie: 4 regular season ACC titles, 3 ACCT championships, 4 years finishing #1,2 years finishing #2, 2 years finishing #3, 2 years finishing #4, 1 year finishing #7

NCAA RECORD (last 7 years of Goestenkors vs. 11 years of Coach P, not including this season):
Goestenkors: 23-7 (one NCAA runner-up, three Final Fours, five years at least making the Elite Eight, all seven years at least making the Sweet 16)
McCallie: 21-10 (zero Final Fours, four Elite Eights, seven years at least making the Sweet 16, three second round losses, one year missing the NCAAT altogether)

___________________________________________

OVERALL RECORD (last 10 years of Goestenkors vs. 11 years of McCallie, not including this season):
Goestenkors: 301-46 (86.74 percent)
McCallie: 297-80 (78.77 percent)

ACC RECORD (last 10 years of Goestenkors vs. 11 years of Coach P, not including this season):
Goestenkors: 138-16 (89.61 percent)
McCallie: 132-38 (77.65 percent)

ACC FINISHES (last 10 years of Goestenkors vs. 11 years of Coach P, not including this season):
Goestenkors: 8 regular season ACC titles, 5 ACCT championships, 8 years finishing #1, 2 years finishing #2
McCallie: 4 regular season ACC titles, 3 ACCT championships, 4 years finishing #1,2 years finishing #2, 2 years finishing #3, 2 years finishing #4, 1 year finishing #7

NCAA RECORD (last 10 years of Goestenkors vs. 11 years of Coach P, not including this season):
Goestenkors: 33-10 (two NCAA runners-up, four Final Fours, seven years at least making the Elite Eight, all ten years at least making the Sweet 16)
McCallie: 21-10 (zero Final Fours, four Elite Eights, seven years at least making the Sweet 16, three second round losses, one year missing the NCAAT altogether)

___________________________________________

Against Top 5 Opponents (Gail Goestenkors' last seven years at Duke with Joanne P. McCallie's eight+ years, as of February 2016)
Goestenkors: 14-14 (50.00 percent)
McCallie: 7-28 (20.00 percent)

Against Top 10 Opponents: (Gail Goestenkors' last seven years at Duke with Joanne P. McCallie's eight+ years, as of February 2016)
Goestenkors: 25-14 (64.10 percent)
McCallie: 19-36 (34.545 percent)

Against Ranked Opponents: (Gail Goestenkors' last seven years at Duke with Joanne P. McCallie's eight+ years, as of February 2016)
Goestenkors: 60-20 (80.00 percent)
McCallie: 58-49 (54.21 percent)

___________________________________________

And looking at McCallie's 11 years at Duke does not take into account the following -- the direction of the program, based on the last five years.

OVERALL RECORD (last 5 years of Coach P, not including this season):
McCallie: 123-45 (73.21 percent)

ACC RECORD (last 5 years of Coach P, not including this season):
McCallie: 55-25 (68.75 percent)

ACC FINISHES (last 5 years of Coach P, not including this season):
McCallie: Zero regular season ACC titles, Zero ACCT championships, Zero years finishing #1, 2 years finishing #2, 2 years finishing #4, 1 year finishing #7

NCAA RECORD (last 5 years of Coach P, not including this season):
McCallie: 6-4 (Zero Final Fours, Zero Elite Eights, 2 Sweet 16s, 2 Second Round losses, one year missing the NCAAT altogether)

killerleft
01-14-2019, 07:38 PM
To me, it really is a sign that the people who don't like Coach P have been complaining about it for far too long. And with far too much vitriol.

I want to watch games, root for my favorite team, and then have a legitimate basketball conversation about the games and the season.

In my opinion, the incessant whining by the anti-P crowd about the fact that she's still coach doesn't do anything for anybody.

Other than perhaps bringing down team morale. It's a cheap shot at the present players. Wait until the season is over.

CamrnCrz1974
01-14-2019, 10:24 PM
Other than perhaps bringing down team morale. It's a cheap shot at the present players. Wait until the season is over.

It is good thing that nothing negative ever gets said about the men’s team, Coach K, etc. during the season.

But yes, perhaps we should not critique or criticize the state of the program if it will bring down team morale and the players will be detrimentally impacted by a message board post.

burnspbesq
01-14-2019, 10:54 PM
It is good thing that nothing negative ever gets said about the men’s team, Coach K, etc. during the season.

But yes, perhaps we should not critique or criticize the state of the program if it will bring down team morale and the players will be detrimentally impacted by a message board post.

It’s old and tired and it’s not going to change the only mind that matters (Kevin White’s). What’s the point?

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-15-2019, 07:09 AM
mtn.devil is usually pretty reasonable, so I'm going to assume he was being sarcastic.

Thanks for the confidence. Yes. It was a callback to someone upthread comparing the two. I found it absurd.

CamrnCrz1974
01-15-2019, 10:28 AM
In the last contest at Georgia Tech, Duke redshirt freshman Mikayla Boykin dished a career-high 11 assists, which tied a Blue Devil freshman record. It was the most assists by a Duke rookie since Feb. 2, 1980, when Patti Thomasson dished 11 dimes against Appalachian State.

A Duke rookie has dished 10 or more assists a total of seven times in school history. Other rookies to accomplish this were Thomasson, Alexis Jones, Abby Waner, Wanisha Smith and Krista Gingrich.

Link:
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211786595&DB_OEM_ID=4200&_ga=2.212975956.1547520862.1547566072-733280084.1545857648

Kedsy
01-15-2019, 10:47 AM
In the last contest at Georgia Tech, Duke redshirt freshman Mikayla Boykin dished a career-high 11 assists, which tied a Blue Devil freshman record. It was the most assists by a Duke rookie since Feb. 2, 1980, when Patti Thomasson dished 11 dimes against Appalachian State.

A Duke rookie has dished 10 or more assists a total of seven times in school history. Other rookies to accomplish this were Thomasson, Alexis Jones, Abby Waner, Wanisha Smith and Krista Gingrich.

Link:
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211786595&DB_OEM_ID=4200&_ga=2.212975956.1547520862.1547566072-733280084.1545857648

Now this is back on topic. Thanks for posting it.

I think Mikayla could be the key as to whether this team is a bottom-of-the-league kind of team or a middle-of-the-pack kind of team. She has such great court vision. If she continues developing and her teammates start to figure out when and where the passes are coming, our offense will become so much better (and our defense is already really good).

killerleft
01-15-2019, 11:12 AM
In the last contest at Georgia Tech, Duke redshirt freshman Mikayla Boykin dished a career-high 11 assists, which tied a Blue Devil freshman record. It was the most assists by a Duke rookie since Feb. 2, 1980, when Patti Thomasson dished 11 dimes against Appalachian State.

A Duke rookie has dished 10 or more assists a total of seven times in school history. Other rookies to accomplish this were Thomasson, Alexis Jones, Abby Waner, Wanisha Smith and Krista Gingrich.

Link:
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211786595&DB_OEM_ID=4200&_ga=2.212975956.1547520862.1547566072-733280084.1545857648

Thanks for that! 1980 dimes were worth more, so Patti Thomasson should be at number one, I think.:eek:

CamrnCrz1974
01-15-2019, 06:57 PM
What was surprising to me was that none of the top four players on the all-time assist list had double-digit assists as a freshman -- Lindsey Harding, Chelsea Gray, Hilary Howard, and Alana Beard.

Assists (Career List)
1. 579 Lindsey Harding, 2003-07
2. 545 Chelsea Gray, 2011-14
3. 533 Hilary Howard, 1996-99
4. 509 Alana Beard, 2001-04
5. 496 Wanisha Smith, 2005-08
6. 449 Jasmine Thomas, 2008-11
7. 445 Kira Orr, 1994-97
8. 432 Abby Waner, 2006-09
9. 428 Georgia Schweitzer, 1998-01
10. 413 Monique Currie, 2002-06

buddy
01-15-2019, 08:14 PM
For DWBB's next home game, this Thursday, fans are invited to the Champions Club pre-game for craft beer. I'll let the board know if the team looks better through beer sodden eyes.

uh_no
01-15-2019, 09:22 PM
For DWBB's next home game, this Thursday, fans are invited to the Champions Club pre-game for craft beer. I'll let the board know if the team looks better through beer sodden eyes.

mannnnn wish i didn't have rehearsal

DU82
01-15-2019, 09:59 PM
For DWBB's next home game, this Thursday, fans are invited to the Champions Club pre-game for craft beer. I'll let the board know if the team looks better through beer sodden eyes.

Just a note that tickets are $15 for the event, or $7 for season ticket holders. Tickets must be ordered in advance.

devildeac
01-15-2019, 10:11 PM
For DWBB's next home game, this Thursday, fans are invited to the Champions Club pre-game for craft beer. I'll let the board know if the team looks better through beer sodden eyes.


Just a note that tickets are $15 for the event, or $7 for season ticket holders. Tickets must be ordered in advance.

I'll guess that buddy gets his money's worth, one way or the other (or both :p).

awhom111
01-16-2019, 12:52 AM
Back to the game itself for a moment, the next four are both tough and critical. Three of the four represent opportunities to pick wins that actually matter if there are going to be any at-large chances with the possibility that at least two wins out of three will be needed to move the needle at all.

The first game is Miami followed by a trip to Florida State. That's a tough stretch against teams that are probably in the top half of the conference, but Clemson just pulled off this feat last weekend. Miami was missing Beatrice Mompremier for that one for family reasons so if she is back, that improves their chances. They are talented, but have not always played up to it this season so are certainly vulnerable especially on the road. Florida State has been trudging through conference play as their starters are excellent, but injuries have robbed them of their depth. Wake Forest is after that and will be dangerous as the bottom third of the conference is greatly improved this year and will generally threaten all the teams below the top four. Syracuse follows them and presents the biggest possible signature win in this part of the season with their high-variance offensive style making them vulnerable to upsets, but also capable of blowing out teams quickly.

The psychological effects of a tough loss after two more expected losses will be interesting, especially with a week off after the last game, but these four games should tell us what to expect for the rest of the season.

CamrnCrz1974
01-16-2019, 11:05 AM
Back to the game itself for a moment, the next four are both tough and critical. Three of the four represent opportunities to pick wins that actually matter if there are going to be any at-large chances with the possibility that at least two wins out of three will be needed to move the needle at all.

The psychological effects of a tough loss after two more expected losses will be interesting, especially with a week off after the last game, but these four games should tell us what to expect for the rest of the season.

I am predicting a 3-1 record -- wins against Miami, Florida State, and Wake Forest, and a loss to Syracuse.

CamrnCrz1974
01-16-2019, 11:07 AM
Four years ago, Onome Akinbode-James was not a basketball player. Now, she's starting for Duke.
The Chronicle
https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2019/01/onome-akinbode-james-duke-womens-basketball-blair-academy-nigeria


Consider this: With her self-proclaimed nature to “swamp [herself] with work,” Akinbode-James took on the challenge of presenting a TEDx Talk during her demanding senior year of high school.

‘Africa, Country or Continent: The Broken Perception’ began with Akinbode-James describing an encounter she had with her American friend and her family at dinner. The friend’s mother asked how far of Akinbode-James had to walk from her “village” to school.

“I was so thrown aback by it because here I am at dinner, thinking we’re just having a good time, and she just pulls that out,” said Akinbode-James, who did not dwell in a village and rode a bus to school. “As much as it is shocking and I’ve gone along and had these experiences, I’ve just realized instead of getting mad about it or angry about it, it’s easier to just try to educate people on it. The more people know the better.”

In her talk, she also says a “single-story notion” concept of African countries produces a distorted view of a homogenous continent instead of one with 54 different countries encompassing more than 1.2 billion people speaking 2,000 languages. The media have reinforced that story by focusing on only a few things in African nations, including poverty and disease.

While she understands that her lifestyle is not newsworthy, Akinbode-James believes it is “not non-existent.”

“It is imperative that we do not rely on just narratives but rather on the complete story to make an informed judgment,” she said.

CameronBornAndBred
01-16-2019, 11:10 AM
I am predicting a 3-1 record -- wins against Miami, Florida State, and Wake Forest, and a loss to Syracuse.

I am guessing that we get blown out by FSU and Syracuse, play Miami tough but lose, and beat Wake.

miramar
01-16-2019, 11:29 AM
Four years ago, Onome Akinbode-James was not a basketball player. Now, she's starting for Duke.
The Chronicle
https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2019/01/onome-akinbode-james-duke-womens-basketball-blair-academy-nigeria


After graduating from high school in Cuba, my mother spent a gap year at a Catholic women's college in the U.S. before starting at the University of Havana. While her English really improved, she also had to put up with some really strange questions. One student asked her what it was like to be in the United States, where she actually had to wear shoes. Ironically, back then Cuban parents were convinced that if you walked around barefoot on a tile floor you would get pneumonia and die the next day. That was almost as bad as eating and then going swimming, which would produce cramping and then the person would promptly drown.

While the U.S. is a much more open place than back in the 1940's, in some ways things have gotten worse for immigrants of late, so I guess the question is not entirely surprising.

dudog84
01-16-2019, 12:44 PM
Four years ago, Onome Akinbode-James was not a basketball player. Now, she's starting for Duke.
The Chronicle
https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2019/01/onome-akinbode-james-duke-womens-basketball-blair-academy-nigeria

It's the way we were brought up (I now have a hard time saying 'America' without having Chris Rock's voice in my head), virtually every map we looked at showed North America much larger than Africa. Blame Mercator. Actually, North America (which officially includes Central America) is quite a bit smaller than Africa.

The continental U.S. would easily fit into the Sahara Desert. You could even squeeze in another Texas and California.

Kfanarmy
01-16-2019, 01:51 PM
I am predicting a 3-1 record -- wins against Miami, Florida State, and Wake Forest, and a loss to Syracuse.

They are just as likely to go o'fer their next 5. hope you are correct however.

CamrnCrz1974
01-17-2019, 03:49 PM
Beatrice Mompremier, Miami’s leading scorer and rebounder, missed that game due to the sudden death of her father. The team didn’t have time to prepare for her absence. She returned to practice on Tuesday, and her status for the Duke game is “day to day,” Meier said.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/college/acc/university-of-miami/article224615870.html

DU82
01-17-2019, 07:35 PM
Duke was behind 18-11 after one, scored 8straight to take the lead.

At the mid-2nd TO, it’s 23-21 Miami. Miami is turning the ball over a lot.

However...Mikayla took a fall and injured her knee. She went to the locker room with Summer, but Summer came back out to get the team doctor. Not a good sign. (It was her right knee, not the one she injured last season.)

DU82
01-17-2019, 07:37 PM
And of course, right after I hit enter, they’re back courtside. Mikaylas not back in the game, though.

Edit: back in. Whew!

DU82
01-17-2019, 07:45 PM
29-25 Miami at the half.

Mikayla took another fall, and left just before the half.

DU82
01-17-2019, 07:57 PM
Mikayla not out for second half warmups.

DU82
01-17-2019, 08:12 PM
Mikayla back out on the bench. No clue if she’ll play in the second half.

DU82
01-17-2019, 08:28 PM
41-38 Duke after three.

Miami can’t handle our zone, it seems. We’re running a decent offense, and a lot fewer turnovers than normal. We have 13 TOs, they’ve committed 22.

CameronBornAndBred
01-17-2019, 09:06 PM
Team totally fell apart in the last two minutes. :(

chrishoke
01-17-2019, 09:18 PM
That was one ugly loss.

loran16
01-17-2019, 09:26 PM
I know this was expected to be a rebuilding year but this is getting rather embarrassing. This team has now lost to every good team it's faced as well as a few merely solid teams. At what point do we hold this program to a higher standard?

Stray Gator
01-17-2019, 09:58 PM
That was a hideous fourth quarter by Duke. Outscored 20-9, I believe that Duke made only 3 baskets during that 10 minutes (on 12 shots from the floor) and was 2-7 from the free throw line while committing 4 turnovers. Meanwhile, at the other end, Duke was giving up 7 made baskets to Miami, 6 of which were layups.

Despite the final margin, this was a game that Duke had a reasonable opportunity to win. Miami uncharacteristically committed 23 turnovers, shot only 21% from beyond the arc, and made only 54% of their free throws. And Duke still led by 47-45 with 3.5 minutes to go.

I don't fault the effort of our players. But I'm finding it increasingly difficult to understand how so many of them who arrive at Duke heralded as skilled athletes seem to be so deficient in the fundamentals -- particularly passing the ball. Based on my observation, it appears that season after season, the Duke women suffer from excessive turnovers and offensive stagnation largely due to their failure to execute basic passes. I wonder if they still practice against a squad of men players, because at times it looks like they're not accustomed to the anticipation and speed of the defenders. In any event, for fans like me who enjoy following the women's team and watching their games, it's frustrating to witness the continuing decline of this program.

buddy
01-17-2019, 10:15 PM
That was a hideous fourth quarter by Duke. Outscored 20-9, I believe that Duke made only 3 baskets during that 10 minutes (on 12 shots from the floor) and was 2-7 from the free throw line while committing 4 turnovers. Meanwhile, at the other end, Duke was giving up 7 made baskets to Miami, 6 of which were layups.

Despite the final margin, this was a game that Duke had a reasonable opportunity to win. Miami uncharacteristically committed 23 turnovers, shot only 21% from beyond the arc, and made only 54% of their free throws. And Duke still led by 47-45 with 3.5 minutes to go.

I don't fault the effort of our players. But I'm finding it increasingly difficult to understand how so many of them who arrive at Duke heralded as skilled athletes seem to be so deficient in the fundamentals -- particularly passing the ball. Based on my observation, it appears that season after season, the Duke women suffer from excessive turnovers and offensive stagnation largely due to their failure to execute basic passes. I wonder if they still practice against a squad of men players, because at times it looks like they're not accustomed to the anticipation and speed of the defenders. In any event, for fans like me who enjoy following the women's team and watching their games, it's frustrating to witness the continuing decline of this program.

I was at the game, as I have been consistently for about 14 years. I concur with everything Stray says. The team plays hard. Defense tonight was good. But as with previous teams, they can't make a simple lay-up. They pass into double teams. Too many times players put their heads down and drive into a double team, or drive into the lane with no plan. The result invariably is a TO or missed shot. The team does not play basic fundamentals. Injuries have hurt over the past few years, but injuries don't cause turnovers. Injuries don't cause missed layups. As has been mentioned before Duke plays a post-centric offense, and so has dedicated 6 scholarships to post players. One has transferred, one never leaves the bench, one is a reserve transfer from Wagner (really--we need reserves from Wagner?), one is huge and may, after a nutrition and weight program become a serviceable (but slow) center, one has only played basketball for 3+ years, and the remaining is foul prone. Not meant to knock the players but to tell it like it is. There is no Elizabeth Williams, Oderah Chidom, Mistie Bass, Alison Bales on this roster. (There may not even be an Alison Verneray). The trend is not our friend here. The caliber of player does not appear to up to the standards of 5 and 10 years ago. Just my .02. This is going to be a long season.

killerleft
01-18-2019, 01:08 PM
We were in the game until the strange (to me, anyway) unsportsmanlike call against Odom. Sure, she was pushing the player, but how would that be interpreted differently than the following foul we made to send Miami to the line? Both were "unintentional" intentional fouls (I guess Odom was trying to foul, but even that isn't for sure). Neither involved a risk for injury to the opponent. Then again, the refs in the women's game are hard to figure.

Anybody think the unsportsmanlike call was valid?

uh_no
01-18-2019, 01:14 PM
We were in the game until the strange (to me, anyway) unsportsmanlike call against Odom. Sure, she was pushing the player, but how would that be interpreted differently than the following foul we made to send Miami to the line? Both were "unintentional" intentional fouls (I guess Odom was trying to foul, but even that isn't for sure). Neither involved a risk for injury to the opponent. Then again, the refs in the women's game are hard to figure.

Anybody think the unsportsmanlike call was valid?

"intentional foul" isn't a think anymore. It's "flagrant." I didn't see the play....if she actually shoved someone, that could absolutely be excessive contact and justification for a flagrant.

Either way, duke was down 4 before the foul and didn't score the rest of the way anyway, so I think it was moot.

jimsumner
01-18-2019, 02:06 PM
There's no question this season is on life support.

If Boykin is out for any appreciable length of time--and it was pretty somber last night--then Duke is down to about four clear ACC-level players and at most three marginal ACC-level players.

Even without Boykin, Duke played winning defense last night. But they just can't put the ball in the basket when the game is on the line. The NCSU, GT and Miami games were all up for grabs late and in every instance, the other team grabbed them. Personnel? Scheme? Experience? Toughness? Poise? All of the above?

Right now, it's about improving down the stretch and setting a foundation for next season. Even the WNIT seems like a reach.

BTW, losing Treece and Craig frees up two scholarships and Duke is pursuing options, de-commitments, grad-transfers, international players, late bloomers.

dudog84
01-18-2019, 02:21 PM
There's no question this season is on life support.

If Boykin is out for any appreciable length of time--and it was pretty somber last night--then Duke is down to about four clear ACC-level players and at most three marginal ACC-level players.

Even without Boykin, Duke played winning defense last night. But they just can't put the ball in the basket when the game is on the line. The NCSU, GT and Miami games were all up for grabs late and in every instance, the other team grabbed them. Personnel? Scheme? Experience? Toughness? Poise? All of the above?

Right now, it's about improving down the stretch and setting a foundation for next season. Even the WNIT seems like a reach.

BTW, losing Treece and Craig frees up two scholarships and Duke is pursuing options, de-commitments, grad-transfers, international players, late bloomers.

As almost (we disagreed about Azura) always, I bow to your knowledge (not being a smart-___), and would like to know how you got to four. I count two and a half (one doesn't play half the time).

I haven't posted much because I'm really disappointed in this team and try not to be negative. Not much good to say except with Boykin and Goodchild (and Lambert) we will be strong in the backcourt the next few years...if they can stay healthy. Big if.

jimsumner
01-18-2019, 03:16 PM
As almost (we disagreed about Azura) always, I bow to your knowledge (not being a smart-___), and would like to know how you got to four. I count two and a half (one doesn't play half the time).

I haven't posted much because I'm really disappointed in this team and try not to be negative. Not much good to say except with Boykin and Goodchild (and Lambert) we will be strong in the backcourt the next few years...if they can stay healthy. Big if.

Gorecki, Odom, Goodchild and Williams are starting-level ACC players. IMO.

dudog84
01-18-2019, 03:53 PM
Gorecki, Odom, Goodchild and Williams are starting-level ACC players. IMO.

I guess we disagree about Williams. She's the most disappointing high recruit we've ever had. McDAA, ranked 13, 13, 15, and 21 by the four recruiting services. The women's talent isn't as deep as the men's so she should be dominant with those ratings. She's not a freshman anymore and Lexie and Becca are gone. At 6-5 on this team she should be a stat machine. She's averaging 7 points (on lousy shooting percentages, FG and FT), and her rebound per minute rate is worse than most of the guards on the team. 1 to 3.5 assist to turnover rate. For pete's sake, she's 6-5 and averaging less than a block a game.

As I wrote earlier about not posting much, I guess this has been building up. But she's not alone, IMO only Goodchild and Boykin are earning pluses this year. I don't know if it's effort, coaching, or really just not being talented enough to play ACC basketball.

Everyone says this was a re-build year. Yeah, but not this bad. And I'm not sure next year looks great with this crew.

So disappointed.

Kfanarmy
01-18-2019, 04:28 PM
There's no question this season is on life support.

If Boykin is out for any appreciable length of time--and it was pretty somber last night--then Duke is down to about four clear ACC-level players and at most three marginal ACC-level players.

Even without Boykin, Duke played winning defense last night. But they just can't put the ball in the basket when the game is on the line. The NCSU, GT and Miami games were all up for grabs late and in every instance, the other team grabbed them. Personnel? Scheme? Experience? Toughness? Poise? All of the above?

Right now, it's about improving down the stretch and setting a foundation for next season. Even the WNIT seems like a reach.

BTW, losing Treece and Craig frees up two scholarships and Duke is pursuing options, de-commitments, grad-transfers, international players, late bloomers.


Coach P has always reflected an, almost solely, defense-first mindset. As I recall very early after she was hired, she said something to the effect that the teams spent little time on offense in practice, because defense wins championships. I wish I could find that. In any case, it shouldn't be surprising that with equal talent, the team that is almost solely focused on defense is going to have a hard time scoring when things become frenetic. Defense wins championships, but you still have to outscore the opponent to win everywhere but the golf course!

loran16
01-18-2019, 05:41 PM
I guess we disagree about Williams. She's the most disappointing high recruit we've ever had. McDAA, ranked 13, 13, 15, and 21 by the four recruiting services. The women's talent isn't as deep as the men's so she should be dominant with those ratings. She's not a freshman anymore and Lexie and Becca are gone. At 6-5 on this team she should be a stat machine. She's averaging 7 points (on lousy shooting percentages, FG and FT), and her rebound per minute rate is worse than most of the guards on the team. 1 to 3.5 assist to turnover rate. For pete's sake, she's 6-5 and averaging less than a block a game.

As I wrote earlier about not posting much, I guess this has been building up. But she's not alone, IMO only Goodchild and Boykin are earning pluses this year. I don't know if it's effort, coaching, or really just not being talented enough to play ACC basketball.

Everyone says this was a re-build year. Yeah, but not this bad. And I'm not sure next year looks great with this crew.

So disappointed.

I think it says it all that the debate we're having in this thread is between whether we have 2.5 or 4 ACC caliber players. It's an indictment on the program really. No one is saying P should be recruiting only 5 star WNBA talent - although she's certainly recruited plenty of that to not the greatest results - but she needs to be recruiting players she can mold INTO ACC quality players. And this season is going to be our 2nd Tournament miss in four years, after 21 consecutive NCAA Tournaments (to say nothing of excelling IN the tournament).

Is the Athletic Department really okay with this being the new state of the WBB program? Because it certainly shows no sign of returning to its heights any time soon.

Phredd3
01-18-2019, 07:55 PM
Anybody think the unsportsmanlike call was valid?

The foul is badly named, but the call was clearly correct under the rules. Section 13.1.c. of the NCAA women's rules specifies an unsportsmanlike foul for:

"Contact away from the ball against an opponent who is clearly not involved in the play, designed to stop the game clock or prevent it from starting;"

To me that pretty clearly describes Neah's pushing of an opponent away from the action on an inbound play. I personally wouldn't term that "unsportsmanlike", but the rules clearly designate it that way, and a player who commits two such fouls is disqualified. The penalty is two shots plus the ball.

That call was dead on correct.

Phredd3
01-18-2019, 08:00 PM
Gorecki, Odom, Goodchild and Williams are starting-level ACC players. IMO.

I'm going to land midway between you and dudog84, and say that, while IMO Williams has the potential to be an ACC-level starter at some point, she has not currently achieved at that level and would not currently start on too many teams in this league, IMO. She certainly wouldn't have started over either of the two bigs we played last night.

chrishoke
01-20-2019, 02:16 PM
Duke winning at FSU early 11-6.

Phredd3
01-20-2019, 02:24 PM
15-14 after one. Too many turnovers.

chrishoke
01-20-2019, 02:50 PM
FSU amped up the intensity and is running us out of the building. 41-28 at the half.

Phredd3
01-20-2019, 02:56 PM
10 TOs in the half, and we are getting clobbered on the boards, 19-10, including eight on the offensive end for the bad guys versus just one for us.

grossbus
01-20-2019, 03:16 PM
Boykin out for the season with ACL tear to non-surgical knee.

chrishoke
01-20-2019, 03:18 PM
Boykin out for the season with ACL tear to non-surgical knee.

Hey Gross - there is actually a thread on this sad news.

grossbus
01-20-2019, 03:20 PM
Williams good if unguarded.

grossbus
01-20-2019, 03:21 PM
Hey Gross - there is actually a thread on this sad news.

Missed it. Sorry.

chrishoke
01-20-2019, 03:25 PM
Cut the lead to 6.

Phredd3
01-20-2019, 03:31 PM
Much better on the boards in the third, plus some nice assists. Still a pretty big hole, but we're withing shouting distance with all the FSU missed FTs.

chrishoke
01-20-2019, 03:35 PM
The Devils are fighting hard.

chrishoke
01-20-2019, 03:41 PM
4 point game with 4 min. to go.

Phredd3
01-20-2019, 03:53 PM
Making a game of it.

chrishoke
01-20-2019, 03:53 PM
Down to 2 with 26 seconds to go -FSU ball.

Phredd3
01-20-2019, 04:05 PM
We beat them three out of four quarters. Unfortunately, it's not enough and we are 0-5 in ACC play this season. Ouch.

chrishoke
01-20-2019, 04:06 PM
FSU 66 - Duke 62 Final. G, Odom and Williams were the only scorers for Duke.

grossbus
01-20-2019, 04:33 PM
We shoot a better percentage from 2, 3 and FT, but turnovers and poor defensive rebounding gave them more opportunities.

Astounding that we had only three players score.

burnspbesq
01-20-2019, 05:02 PM
With Boykin done for the year, I think we can officially write this season off as “injury-ravaged.”

Phredd3
01-20-2019, 06:19 PM
With Boykin done for the year, I think we can officially write this season off as “injury-ravaged.”

I personally don't think we are more "injury-ravaged" than, say, undefeated NC State. They had one guard out for the season before it started, one of their most prolific scorers out for the season after playing us in their first ACC game, and they lost yet another guard against Pitt in their third conference game. Yet, they have managed to win two games since. I'll grant you, NCSU hasn't played the ranked part of the league, yet, as we have, but they look well on their way to a tournament bid, at least, and they don't have the on-paper level of talent we have.

Do I wonder what the season would have been like if Boykin and Lambert were at full health? Sure. But fundamentally, I don't think that's why we have a losing record.

miramar
01-20-2019, 07:03 PM
FSU 66 - Duke 62 Final. G, Odom and Williams were the only scorers for Duke.

I don't remember a team having only three scorers in a game, but I expect it's happened before somewhere.

I also don't remember a team going 1-18 on threes as FSU did, but they still won. Then again we beat UVa after going 2-12, but that extra three made all the difference in the world.