Student Interest In Duke Basketball Apart From UNC Game Waning

[hallcity]

The Chronicle (https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2018/10/survey-legacy-students-come-from-wealthier-backgrounds-than-non-legacy-students) has a piece on differences between legacy and non-legacy students shown by a survey. Scroll down and you’ll see some questions asked about Duke basketball. While many students are interested in tenting, it seems that otherwise most just don’t watch the games.

[scottdude8]

I may be wrong, but it seems to be like you are very much misinterpreting that piece of data. This is a survey of first year students, and basketball season hasn't started yet. So it's not surprising that students who didn't have any affiliation with Duke up until this year, many of which probably didn't know they were going to Duke until after basketball season ended last year, might not have ever watched a Duke basketball game... in fact, I would imagine that unless you are a hardcore college basketball fan as a high school student (of which there may not be that many), watching college basketball in general, let alone Duke games, would be relatively far down your list of priorities as a child. Meanwhile, if you have a sibling/parent/etc who is a Duke grad and were raised as a Duke fan, you're way more likely to make a point of watching Duke basketball.

So again, unless I'm massively misreading something I think you're making a pretty huge mountain out of a pretty minute molehill here.

[UrinalCake]

If they don’t want the tickets, I’ll take ‘em!

[scottdude8]

Also, as an additional note this article presents this data in a horrible fashion to the point that I'm ashamed both as a former Chronicle writer and as a mathematician. They report the data as "number of students" despite having way more non-legacy as opposed to legacy students in the data pool... so OF COURSE it's going to look like way more non-legacies don't watch Duke games when there's way more of them in the data! To have any usefulness this data should've been reported as percentages instead of raw numbers, which would have made for a more reasonable comparison and probably would've diminished how alarming those figures look.

TL;DR: as a mathematician and a former student journalist I'm disgusted that this article got printed and the data is presented in such a misleading way. IMHO, absolutely nothing to see here.

[DCDevil9194]

The article does not suggest waning interest student interest in Duke Basketball apart from the UNC game. Instead, the article reports on the answers of certain questions by the class of 2022 (freshmen) and compares the answers of legacy and non-legacy freshmen. The relevant question asks how many Duke games these freshmen have watched. Since they are freshmen, the question is asking only about their existing interest in Duke basketball before they arrived at Duke. The result is not that surprising: Legacy freshman have watched more games than non-legacy freshman. As the parent of a legacy 2022 freshman, this makes sense since Duke basketball is always on in our house.

[BLPOG]

I may be wrong, but it seems to be like you are very much misinterpreting that piece of data. This is a survey of first year students, and basketball season hasn't started yet. So it's not surprising that students who didn't have any affiliation with Duke up until this year, many of which probably didn't know they were going to Duke until after basketball season ended last year, might not have ever watched a Duke basketball game... in fact, I would imagine that unless you are a hardcore college basketball fan as a high school student (of which there may not be that many), watching college basketball in general, let alone Duke games, would be relatively far down your list of priorities as a child. Meanwhile, if you have a sibling/parent/etc who is a Duke grad and were raised as a Duke fan, you're way more likely to make a point of watching Duke basketball.

So again, unless I'm massively misreading something I think you're making a pretty huge mountain out of a pretty minute molehill here.

This explanation matches my observations as an undergraduate. It's worth noting that many of those students who didn't have an affiliation or interest initially become dedicated fans not only as students, but as alumni. Among the friends seated in my general area at the last ACC tourney game I attended, I'd say 30-40% fall into that category.

That said, I found the number of "non-fans" actually in attendance at UNC games to be extremely aggravating. If you haven't attended a game all year as a student, I think it should either disqualify you from attendance or negatively impact your tent/walk-up line number. I expect it is worse now than when I was at Duke.

[OldPhiKap]

Also, as an additional note this article presents this data in a horrible fashion to the point that I'm ashamed both as a former Chronicle writer and as a mathematician. They report the data as "number of students" despite having way more non-legacy as opposed to legacy students in the data pool... so OF COURSE it's going to look like way more non-legacies don't watch Duke games when there's way more of them in the data! To have any usefulness this data should've been reported as percentages instead of raw numbers, which would have made for a more reasonable comparison and probably would've diminished how alarming those figures look.

TL;DR: as a mathematician and a former student journalist I'm disgusted that this article got printed and the data is presented in such a misleading way. IMHO, absolutely nothing to see here.

Damn kids. Their music sucks too.

(Agreed on your post)

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Also, as an additional note this article presents this data in a horrible fashion to the point that I'm ashamed both as a former Chronicle writer and as a mathematician. They report the data as "number of students" despite having way more non-legacy as opposed to legacy students in the data pool... so OF COURSE it's going to look like way more non-legacies don't watch Duke games when there's way more of them in the data! To have any usefulness this data should've been reported as percentages instead of raw numbers, which would have made for a more reasonable comparison and probably would've diminished how alarming those figures look.

TL;DR: as a mathematician and a former student journalist I'm disgusted that this article got printed and the data is presented in such a misleading way. IMHO, absolutely nothing to see here.

I agree 100% (I'm also a former Chronicle writer). This is totally useless for the reasons you cited and many others. To make generalizations based on 37 legacy students is pointless. And to go back and forth between results based on absolute numbers vs. percentages makes it impossible to follow. It is also a very odd set of questions to group together. This reads like something a middle school student receiving their first introduction to statistics would produce. As a loyal alum, I really hope this isn't a sign that the Chronicle is moving towards a click bait mode of journalism as it continues to move primarily online.

The only thing this does is reaffirm (in a not statistically valid way) my assumption that there are a lot of students at Duke in the wealth levels where they aren't really eligible for a lot of aid, but paying full tuition at current levels is a big investment. As tuition keeps growing at a rapid pace, this will become more and more of a challenge.

[nmduke2001]

I watch nearly every single game on television. To my eye, the student section (at least on TV) often appears to be far from filled even during ACC games.

[53n206]

Damn kids. Their music sucks too.

(Agreed on your post)

Your note reminds that when looking at beautiful young women and thinking about them as potential partners, I realize that I probably don't want to talk with their friends, and i certainly don't want to listen to their music.

Member Trinity Class of'57

[BandAlum83]

The article does not suggest waning interest student interest in Duke Basketball apart from the UNC game. Instead, the article reports on the answers of certain questions by the class of 2022 (freshmen) and compares the answers of legacy and non-legacy freshmen. The relevant question asks how many Duke games these freshmen have watched. Since they are freshmen, the question is asking only about their existing interest in Duke basketball before they arrived at Duke. The result is not that surprising: Legacy freshman have watched more games than non-legacy freshman. As the parent of a legacy 2022 freshman, this makes sense since Duke basketball is always on in our house.

Wow! That's dedication! You run replays all throughout the off-season?

[OldPhiKap]

Your note reminds that when looking at beautiful young women and thinking about them as potential partners, I realize that I probably don't want to talk with their friends, and i certainly don't want to listen to their music.

Member Trinity Class of'57

When touring colleges with DaughterPK, and seeing the attractive co-eds on the tour, my thought was always -- damn, her mom's hot!

(I better add j/k. Because, y'know . . . .)

[jimsumner]

Your note reminds that when looking at beautiful young women and thinking about them as potential partners, I realize that I probably don't want to talk with their friends, and i certainly don't want to listen to their music.

Member Trinity Class of'57

If you're class of '57 and you're looking at beautiful young women as potential partners, methinks someone is having delusions of grandeur. :)

[BandAlum83]

If you're class of '57 and you're looking at beautiful young women as potential partners, methinks someone is having delusions of grandeur. :)

If you're class of '57 and participating in online forums using the interwebs, I'm impressed!

[53n206]

If you're class of '57 and participating in online forums using the interwebs, I'm impressed!
Grandchildren help.

[PackMan97]

Oh how I wish the headline were slightly different, "Student Interest In UNC Game Waning"

9F those cheaters

[BLPOG]

TL;DR: as a mathematician and a former student journalist I'm disgusted that this article got printed and the data is presented in such a misleading way. IMHO, absolutely nothing to see here.

I can't help but add that just yesterday I sent my brother another Chronicle article that could have benefited from research into relevant (and very much available) statistics. The single one it used was created with such poor methodology, and was so obviously ecologically invalid, as to be prima facie evidence that the writer doesn't know anything about proper research methodology and is basically innumerate. I would have hoped that the senior Chronicle staff would notice and object to that sort of thing.

It's long been the case that the only class Duke requires of (nearly) all its freshmen is Writing 20 (or whatever the equivalent is since the re-numbering a few years ago). I think a lot of students would benefit from a freshman-year required class in statistics or logic or philosophy of science - something that would impart the importance of care in methodology and analysis.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

The Chronicle (https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2018/10/survey-legacy-students-come-from-wealthier-backgrounds-than-non-legacy-students) has a piece on differences between legacy and non-legacy students shown by a survey. Scroll down and you’ll see some questions asked about Duke basketball. While many students are interested in tenting, it seems that otherwise most just don’t watch the games.

Non story. Confusing set of stats, presented in a way to misrepresent the reality. Chronicle trying to be too cute by half....

[burnspbesq]

Your note reminds that when looking at beautiful young women and thinking about them as potential partners, I realize that I probably don't want to talk with their friends, and i certainly don't want to listen to their music.

Member Trinity Class of'57

You mean beautiful women who are younger than your granddaughters.

[dukelifer]

The article does not suggest waning interest student interest in Duke Basketball apart from the UNC game. Instead, the article reports on the answers of certain questions by the class of 2022 (freshmen) and compares the answers of legacy and non-legacy freshmen. The relevant question asks how many Duke games these freshmen have watched. Since they are freshmen, the question is asking only about their existing interest in Duke basketball before they arrived at Duke. The result is not that surprising: Legacy freshman have watched more games than non-legacy freshman. As the parent of a legacy 2022 freshman, this makes sense since Duke basketball is always on in our house.

My 2022 legacy Freshman can be more intense about games that I can and that is saying a lot. But I would not be surprised if sports is of less interest to this generation of kids. There are lots of entertainment options out there.

[TKG]

damn kids. Their music sucks too.

(agreed on your post)


get off my lawn!!!!!!

[scottdude8]

Well looks like my rant didn't amount to nothing. The article was updated:

Editor's note: A previous version of this article used the number of students in the number of basketball games watched interactive. That interactive has since been updated to show the proportion or percentage of students.

Obviously the statistics still show more legacy students watched games prior to matriculating to Duke than non-legacy (again, something that shouldn't surprise anyone!), and the statistical methodology of just taking averages on a self-reported survey with two largely different population sizes is questionable at best (there has to be a stats major on staff who could've done a significance test!), but at least it isn't deliberately misleading anymore. I maintain that this is still a complete non-story, though.

[Devils Librarian]

I may be wrong, but it seems to be like you are very much misinterpreting that piece of data. This is a survey of first year students, and basketball season hasn't started yet. So it's not surprising that students who didn't have any affiliation with Duke up until this year, many of which probably didn't know they were going to Duke until after basketball season ended last year, might not have ever watched a Duke basketball game... in fact, I would imagine that unless you are a hardcore college basketball fan as a high school student (of which there may not be that many), watching college basketball in general, let alone Duke games, would be relatively far down your list of priorities as a child. Meanwhile, if you have a sibling/parent/etc who is a Duke grad and were raised as a Duke fan, you're way more likely to make a point of watching Duke basketball.

So again, unless I'm massively misreading something I think you're making a pretty huge mountain out of a pretty minute molehill here.


This was exactly my experience when I came to Duke. Everything changed during campout. It's a brilliant way for Duke to offer tickets because it makes you buy-in to the team, and you build relationships and have a lot of wild times with the people tenting around you. Cameron was also a factor in turning me into a basketball fan. Honestly I had almost zero interest in basketball before I came to Duke, and now I spend time on a message board writing to other basketball fanatics.

Don't worry. Duke basketball will convert these freshmen. They'll be blue painted maniacs in a few months.