Generic 2018 NFL thread

[JasonEvans]

I looked but I don't think we have one of these yet.

Anyway, I thought I would get it started with a ridiculous fact I saw last night. The Pats-Chiefs game was the 56th straight game Tom Brady was favored by the Vegas oddsmakers to win his football game. It bests a streak of 55 games in which Kurt Warner was favored from 1999-2003.

56 straight games as the favorite... that's insane. It should stretch to 57 this week as they go on the road to the surprisingly good Bears. Early line is NE by 2.5. It is possible the streak ends Dec 16th when the Pats go to the Steelers.

-Jason "I'm guessing this streak includes playoff games... which makes it even more insane" Evans

[elvis14]

After yesterday's victory over the Panthers, the Redskins are in first place in the NFC East. I don't really have a point but with the Redskins results over the last 20 years, I just like to celebrate being in first place when it happens...even when it's only week 6. #HTTR

[IrishDevil]

After yesterday's victory over the Panthers, the Redskins are in first place in the NFC East. I don't really have a point but with the Redskins results over the last 20 years, I just like to celebrate being in first place when it happens...even when it's only week 6. #HTTR

:: picks feet up off of ground to make sure the icicles from Hell don't put holes in his shoes :: :p

[JasonEvans]

After yesterday's victory over the Panthers, the Redskins are in first place in the NFC East. I don't really have a point but with the Redskins results over the last 20 years, I just like to celebrate being in first place when it happens...even when it's only week 6. #HTTR

You are in the NFC East, an absolute dumpster fire of a division (with Philly forgetting how to play football this season), that does not have a single team that is ranked in the top half of the league in scoring. No reason the 'Skins can't be the team to emerge from that chaos.

[elvis14]

You are in the NFC East, an absolute dumpster fire of a division (with Philly forgetting how to play football this season), that does not have a single team that is ranked in the top half of the league in scoring. No reason the 'Skins can't be the team to emerge from that chaos.

Man, I wish I could disagree with you about the NFC East....but I can't. I'd still rather win a dumpster fire of a division than not make the playoffs.

[Nick]

Fun fact about the Chiefs-Patriots game (https://twitter.com/NFL_Scorigami/status/1051676153642213376): it was the first time an NFL game has ever had a score of 43-40.

[JasonEvans]

Fun fact about the Chiefs-Patriots game (https://twitter.com/NFL_Scorigami/status/1051676153642213376): it was the first time an NFL game has ever had a score of 43-40.

I had never heard of Scoragami until now. What a cool thing to track! Here is a website (https://nflscorigami.com/) that is on the lookout of a unique NFL score. Lots of possibilities in numbers like 1 and 4 and 5... but after that, new final scores get hard to find.

[JasonEvans]

The Packers have to cut Ty Montgomery after this (https://deadspin.com/ty-montgomery-went-rogue-1830069649), right? He broke explicit orders from the team and refused to take a touchback at the end of the Rams game, instead taking the ball out of the end zone and fumbling. Even if he did not fumble, his decision would have taken away the 2 minute warning, which would have been a valuable tool for Aaron Rogers as he tried to march the team for a game-winning FG.

-Jason "it is not like Montgomery is a major part of the Packers offense... he's useful, but a dude who just disobeys orders like this needs to go ($800k cap hit... who cares?)" Evans

[JasonEvans]

The Packers have to cut Ty Montgomery after this (https://deadspin.com/ty-montgomery-went-rogue-1830069649), right? He broke explicit orders from the team and refused to take a touchback at the end of the Rams game, instead taking the ball out of the end zone and fumbling. Even if he did not fumble, his decision would have taken away the 2 minute warning, which would have been a valuable tool for Aaron Rogers as he tried to march the team for a game-winning FG.

-Jason "it is not like Montgomery is a major part of the Packers offense... he's useful, but a dude who just disobeys orders like this needs to go ($800k cap hit... who cares?)" Evans

I was wrong, they did not have to cut him... they traded him instead. Just happened. He goes to the Ravens for a 2020 7th round draft pick. Not exactly a king's ransom for Ty.

[Acymetric]

There was no way they could keep him...Aaron Rodgers was never going to let him touch the ball again on offense. This was a surprisingly active mid-season trade period for the NFL. Golden Tate, Amari Cooper, Carlos Hyde, and a bunch of others getting moved around.

[Turk]

8761

I don't think the photoshop skills are going to win any prizes, but the idea isn't bad at all...

[elvis14]

Just came here to vent.

Last week the Redskins lost our LT Trent Williams for a month or more because he had to have surgery for a dislocated thumb. Yesterday both the LG and the RG were lost for the season (torn ACL, torn Pec). And just for good measure, WR Paul Richardson was lost for the year, and while I'm at it I can mention that Jamison Crowder has been hurt and hasn't played in weeks. We just went from being 5-2, first place in the NFC East with a solid team to being 5-3 with 3/5 of our offensive line out. Just like last year. So frustrating. We weren't going to win the Super Bowl or anything but I thought we had a good 10-6 and maybe a win in a playoff game in us. Now, it's looking like an 8-8 and missing the playoffs find of year :-(

In DBR vernacular: It's Over!

[Highlander]

Meanwhile, the NFC South is looking like absolute Murderer's Row. 6-2 Panthers have won 3 straight and are still improving. They have so many weapons on offense no one knows who to cover. 4-4 Falcons started slow but have won 3 straight as well with the Browns and Cowboys up next on their slate. And the 7-1 Saints look like the best team in the NFC after taking the undefeated Rams apart.

Panthers have a brutal finish to the season with Saints, Falcons, and Saints again. Luckily 2 of the 3 are at home.
Saints finish with Panthers, Steelers, and Panthers, and 2 of 3 at home as well. No picnic.
Falcons have the easiest go with Cardinals, Panthers, and Bucs, although only one is at home.

And the Bucs are effectively done in this division.

[JasonEvans]

Michael Irvin is leaking. Will someone please turn off the water

(cue in the video to the 1:30 mark)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=85&v=UmM1j4NnnsM

In other news, the Cowboys are trash this season despite Irvin's nonstop screaming about how great they are.

[rsvman]

Just came here to vent.

Last week the Redskins lost our LT Trent Williams for a month or more because he had to have surgery for a dislocated thumb. Yesterday both the LG and the RG were lost for the season (torn ACL, torn Pec). And just for good measure, WR Paul Richardson was lost for the year, and while I'm at it I can mention that Jamison Crowder has been hurt and hasn't played in weeks. We just went from being 5-2, first place in the NFC East with a solid team to being 5-3 with 3/5 of our offensive line out. Just like last year. So frustrating. We weren't going to win the Super Bowl or anything but I thought we had a good 10-6 and maybe a win in a playoff game in us. Now, it's looking like an 8-8 and missing the playoffs find of year :-(

In DBR vernacular: It's Over!

I feel your pain. Acutely.

[Wander]

Semi-serious question: Would Nathan Peterman start at Duke?

[Acymetric]

Semi-serious question: Would Nathan Peterman start at Duke?

No. I've never understood how guys like Peterman, Geno Smith, etc hang around and get chance after chance over guys like Thad or Renfree.

[Reddevil]

Just came here to vent.

Last week the Redskins lost our LT Trent Williams for a month or more because he had to have surgery for a dislocated thumb. Yesterday both the LG and the RG were lost for the season (torn ACL, torn Pec). And just for good measure, WR Paul Richardson was lost for the year, and while I'm at it I can mention that Jamison Crowder has been hurt and hasn't played in weeks. We just went from being 5-2, first place in the NFC East with a solid team to being 5-3 with 3/5 of our offensive line out. Just like last year. So frustrating. We weren't going to win the Super Bowl or anything but I thought we had a good 10-6 and maybe a win in a playoff game in us. Now, it's looking like an 8-8 and missing the playoffs find of year :-(

In DBR vernacular: It's Over!

It could be worse. For instance, I'm a Raider fan. It has been a TOUGH 34 years! The late 60's through the early 80's were a lot of fun though. Entire generations are unaware that the Raiders used to be a proud and winning organization. This season is particularly disturbing though. Just two years ago there was reason to think there was a young core to build around for playoff runs into the next decade. Then Gruden comes. Okay, we liked him before. No one saw this dismantling debacle coming. Thursday night was the most pathetic display of NFL football I have ever seen, and I have seen a bunch. I am long since too old to be emotionally attached to a professional sports team, but I feel bad for the season ticket holders. Not only are they leaving, they are embarrassing. Oakland should demand a refund. Vegas must be so excited. I have no confidence in their ability to make all those draft picks work. I have always laughed when hearing people say that a college team could ever beat a pro team, but I think Alabama actually could. They have more professional "caliber" players, and they are better coached.

[wilson]

No. I've never understood how guys like Peterman, Geno Smith, etc hang around and get chance after chance over guys like Thad or Renfree....or Kaepernick.
[/PPBshotsfired]

[BD80]

Just came here to vent.
... the Redskins … . just went from being 5-2, first place in the NFC East with a solid team to being 5-3 ... Now, it's looking like an 8-8 and missing the playoffs find of year :-(

In DBR vernacular: It's Over!

8-8 could easily win the NFC East, by 2 games.

[elvis14]

It could be worse. For instance, I'm a Raider fan. It has been a TOUGH 34 years! The late 60's through the early 80's were a lot of fun though. Entire generations are unaware that the Raiders used to be a proud and winning organization. This season is particularly disturbing though. Just two years ago there was reason to think there was a young core to build around for playoff runs into the next decade. Then Gruden comes. Okay, we liked him before. No one saw this dismantling debacle coming. Thursday night was the most pathetic display of NFL football I have ever seen, and I have seen a bunch. I am long since too old to be emotionally attached to a professional sports team, but I feel bad for the season ticket holders. Not only are they leaving, they are embarrassing. Oakland should demand a refund. Vegas must be so excited. I have no confidence in their ability to make all those draft picks work. I have always laughed when hearing people say that a college team could ever beat a pro team, but I think Alabama actually could. They have more professional "caliber" players, and they are better coached.

I have to admit that I was shocked when I watched that game Thursday night. You and I share the same opinion of how your Raiders played. I always thought Gruden was a decent coach but that was a horribly played game by the Raiders in which they seemed to just not care, he needs to do better.


...or Kaepernick.
[/PPBshotsfired]

All I have to say is that Kap would [redacted, ppb]. And those [redacted, ppb] and he should still be [redacted, ppb], faux [redacted, ppb], Mother F[redacted, usual reason]. [redacted, ppb].

[DUKIECB]

After last Thursday nights less than stellar matchup between a couple 1 win teams, this week's matchup has two hot teams, the Panthers vs the Steelers in Pittsburgh. On paper these teams have almost identical stats so I'm giving the edge to the Steelers since the game is being played up there. I'm a Panthers fan so I hope we can pull off a nice road win against a good team and try and keep pace with the Saints.

Speaking of the Saints, they may be better than anyone in the NFL right now. Brady gets all the talk about playing at a high level into his 40's but in my opinion what Brees is doing is just as impressive. He's 39 years old and is playing like a 29 year old.

[JNort]

I have to admit that I was shocked when I watched that game Thursday night. You and I share the same opinion of how your Raiders played. I always thought Gruden was a decent coach but that was a horribly played game by the Raiders in which they seemed to just not care, he needs to do better.


I wouldn't judge him on this season. He wants to lose, they are gunning for a massive overhaul and he wants the top pick. I won't be surprised of they trade Carr in the offseason or dump him entirely. Hes got a 10 year contract and is playing the long game.

[elvis14]

I wouldn't judge him on this season. He wants to lose, they are gunning for a massive overhaul and he wants the top pick. I won't be surprised of they trade Carr in the offseason or dump him entirely. Hes got a 10 year contract and is playing the long game.

Good point JNort. Reading my post it does imply that Gruden is no longer a decent coach which wasn't really my intent. My main point was just how poorly they played and how little effort they seemed to be giving. I can see the long game strategy but I guess I just didn't think the Raiders were all that far from being a pretty good team so I didn't think he'd have to tear it down and rebuild it.

[chris13]

Good point JNort. Reading my post it does imply that Gruden is no longer a decent coach which wasn't really my intent. My main point was just how poorly they played and how little effort they seemed to be giving. I can see the long game strategy but I guess I just didn't think the Raiders were all that far from being a pretty good team so I didn't think he'd have to tear it down and rebuild it.

I think it's an open question of whether or not Gruden is still a decent coach. He went 45-51 his last six years as an NFL coach, the one Super Bowl he won was a team he inherited and that was his best season, AND he took 10 years off. I predict Gruden will not live up to his contract. He'd basically have to be Belichik to do so anyway.

[DUKIECB]

Dear Lord that was a disaster for the Panthers last night. Ugh. In a nationally televised game you play your worst game in about 2 years. I think it was just one of those nights and they are better than that but man it has to be a punch in the gut and one that won't be easy to recover from.

The defense was horrible. Cam played bad which mostly had to do with what had been a good offensive line playing absolutely matador like against the pass rush all night. Just a complete disaster all the way around. Now they still have 3 out of their next 4 on the road and are 2 games behind the Saints if they win this week. Not looking good considering how promising things looked just a couple days ago.

[Acymetric]

Dear Lord that was a disaster for the Panthers last night. Ugh. In a nationally televised game you play your worst game in about 2 years. I think it was just one of those nights and they are better than that but man it has to be a punch in the gut and one that won't be easy to recover from.

The defense was horrible. Cam played bad which mostly had to do with what had been a good offensive line playing absolutely matador like against the pass rush all night. Just a complete disaster all the way around. Now they still have 3 out of their next 4 on the road and are 2 games behind the Saints if they win this week. Not looking good considering how promising things looked just a couple days ago.

Defense has not looked especially good all year. I am losing confidence in the promotion of Eric Washington to DC this year.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

There will be text books written about negotiations with Le'Veon Bell as a case study in exactly what not to do. The guy is absolutely toxic and I can't see a team paying him what he wants this off-season.

[Acymetric]

There will be text books written about negotiations with Le'Veon Bell as a case study in exactly what not to do. The guy is absolutely toxic and I can't see a team paying him what he wants this off-season.

Really? I think the change in take from the sports media is interesting here. He got a lot of support early in the holdout, but the tone seems to have shifted to fairly uniformly against for no clear reason that I can tell. And some team is definitely going to want to pay him this offseason...look at what the 49ers gave Jerrick McKinnon!

I suspect that his change of heart towards not wanting to play for the Steelers at all had a lot to do with the backlash from his teammates, which I definitely thought was out of line.

[BD80]

Dear Lord that was a disaster for the Panthers last night. Ugh. In a nationally televised game you play your worst game in about 2 years. I think it was just one of those nights and they are better than that but man it has to be a punch in the gut and one that won't be easy to recover from.

...


On the other hand, it was a very good week in sports for those us who are both Steelers fans (50+ years) and Duke basketball fans (40+ years).


Looking forward to a little Boogie-ing later today.

[JasonEvans]

Reports out of Pittsburgh indicate Bell will report next week (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25219461/pittsburgh-steelers-expect-leveon-bell-report-next-week), which is the deadline to report and get his 2018 service time (allowing him to become a free agent in the off-season). I think the general consensus is that he will never get back the money he has lost thus far this season, but getting out of Pitt seems to be his #1 goal and he is certainly going to accomplish that.

[Acymetric]

Reports out of Pittsburgh indicate Bell will report next week (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25219461/pittsburgh-steelers-expect-leveon-bell-report-next-week), which is the deadline to report and get his 2018 service time (allowing him to become a free agent in the off-season). I think the general consensus is that he will never get back the money he has lost thus far this season, but getting out of Pitt seems to be his #1 goal and he is certainly going to accomplish that.

Not necessarily if they hit him with the transition tag, which has been reported as a possibility.

Edit: He also avoided potential getting injured while under the franchise tag without a long term contract, which would have cost him much more than what he was due to be paid this year.

[BD80]

Reports out of Pittsburgh indicate Bell will report next week (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25219461/pittsburgh-steelers-expect-leveon-bell-report-next-week), which is the deadline to report and get his 2018 service time (allowing him to become a free agent in the off-season). I think the general consensus is that he will never get back the money he has lost thus far this season, but getting out of Pitt seems to be his #1 goal and he is certainly going to accomplish that.

If he chooses to sit out the year, the Steelers can tag him again, but the tag will cost about $25 million, the average of the top 5 contracts (including QBs). The Steelers won't do that, letting him walk would get them a 3rd round compensatory pick. A transition tag only gives them a right to match an offer, but no pick if they lose him.

I say it is possible Bell does not return. He has little or no support in the locker room, less in the stands, and the front office never forgot how Bell embarrassed the team with his drug suspensions.

If he does return, can you imagine how dangerous he would be as a slot receiver? He wants to get paid like an elite receiver, would be a good chance to prove he deserves it.

Sadly, I think so little of his character, I see him missing games for "general soreness"

[kshepinthehouse]

Defense has not looked especially good all year. I am losing confidence in the promotion of Eric Washington to DC this year.

Best offense we’ve had in a while, worst defense we’ve had in a while. I know the players are getting older and we have no defensive ends to speak of. But I too lay a lot of the blame on Eric Washington. Too many odd calls and players out of position.

[Acymetric]

Question for anyone who knows:

I keep seeing reference to the Steelers potentially signing Bell to a $14.5 million transition tag, but the point of the transition tag as I understand it is that they can match any offer from another team (which could obviously be more than $14.5 million and most likely would be). Where is that 14.5 mil figure coming from and what does it mean?

[JasonEvans]

Question for anyone who knows:

I keep seeing reference to the Steelers potentially signing Bell to a $14.5 million transition tag, but the point of the transition tag as I understand it is that they can match any offer from another team (which could obviously be more than $14.5 million and most likely would be). Where is that 14.5 mil figure coming from and what does it mean?

Not sure what you mean by "where is the figure coming from?" It comes from the Steeler's bankroll. The Steelers would have to pay it if Bell accepted it, which he would not. The transition tag would be for the 2019 season and has nothing to do with this year.

By the way, Bell failed to report today so he is not getting paid and not playing at all in 2018. I'm sure his agent is playing 3-dimension chess in some way none of us can appreciate but I think this was unfathomably stupid. Bell should have shown up today and gotten at least half of his money while also accruing a year of service time. This makes no sense at all.

-Jason "is it possible that he and the Steelers reached some kind of under the table deal for Bell not to show (thereby saving the Steelers some money this year) and for them not to transition or franchise tag him next year?" Evans

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Not sure what you mean by "where is the figure coming from?" It comes from the Steeler's bankroll. The Steelers would have to pay it if Bell accepted it, which he would not. The transition tag would be for the 2019 season and has nothing to do with this year.

By the way, Bell failed to report today so he is not getting paid and not playing at all in 2018. I'm sure his agent is playing 3-dimension chess in some way none of us can appreciate but I think this was unfathomably stupid. Bell should have shown up today and gotten at least half of his money while also accruing a year of service time. This makes no sense at all.

-Jason "is it possible that he and the Steelers reached some kind of under the table deal for Bell not to show (thereby saving the Steelers some money this year) and for them not to transition or franchise tag him next year?" Evans

I think he is asking about the mechanics of the different tags and how much he could earn. He had a $14.5 million contract for this season which is now gone. I think the question is how much would he get if the Steelers franchise tagged him again. I have read that there is some debate as to whether he gets the year 2 franchise tag (again roughly $14.5 million) since he didn't actually play this season, or the year 3 franchise tag of $20+ million. Either way, I think the Steelers will just let him go.

I agree that the whole thing makes no sense at all. He allegedly turned down a lot of guaranteed money before the season, and lost out on his $14.5 million this season. If my favorite team needed a running back, I would rather take my chances on someone a lot less talented than have his toxic personality in my locker room. In addition to the lost playing earnings, I'm guessing he won't earn a penny of endorsement money, which could have been lucrative if he had a rosier personality.

On an unrelated note, the upcoming Rams-Chiefs game that was scheduled for Mexico City is being moved to LA because the field in Mexico City was in such bad shape - apparently the players were saying they didn't want to play there. The NFL will have to do a lot of logistical (and political) juggling to make this work. I believe the Rams were planning to practice in Colorado this week to prepare for the altitude. I am not very familiar with the LA area but I think some of their practice facilities are not too far from the fire zone. Football is obviously trivial compared to what is happening in California right now, but there is a lot of disruption for the Rams.

[BD80]

… By the way, Bell failed to report today so he is not getting paid and not playing at all in 2018. I'm sure his agent is playing 3-dimension chess in some way none of us can appreciate but I think this was unfathomably stupid. Bell should have shown up today and gotten at least half of his money while also accruing a year of service time. This makes no sense at all.

-Jason "is it possible that he and the Steelers reached some kind of under the table deal for Bell not to show (thereby saving the Steelers some money this year) and for them not to transition or franchise tag him next year?" Evans

I get no sense that LeVeon has a plan or has an understanding greater than even the most casual football fan.

He has been more of a petulant child: "I won't play and you can't make me." He tries to tease social media to stay relevant, but has managed to crater his marketing value.

He'll soon be some other teams problem.

That said, can the Steelers make use of the money they reserved for Bell under the salary cap?

[JNort]

I get no sense that LeVeon has a plan or has an understanding greater than even the most casual football fan.

He has been more of a petulant child: "I won't play and you can't make me." He tries to tease social media to stay relevant, but has managed to crater his marketing value.

He'll soon be some other teams problem.

That said, can the Steelers make use of the money they reserved for Bell under the salary cap?
I have very little problem with him not wanting to play and trying to hold out but he did it very stupidly. He should have signed week 1 and just kept getting nicked up each week to avoid playing much or at all.

[JasonEvans]

can the Steelers make use of the money they reserved for Bell under the salary cap?

As a result of this, the Steelers are now $14.5 mil under the cap (actually, probably more than that as most teams preserve some cap space throughout the season in case they need it in an emergency). They could choose to use that money this year but are likely to just hold onto it and use it next year. The nfl allows teams to carry over extra cap space from year to year so count on the Steelers being major free agency players next summer as they will likely have a ton of space to work with.

Jason “in case you cannot tell, the NFL cap is really different from the NBA cap” Evans

[Nick]

I get no sense that LeVeon has a plan or has an understanding greater than even the most casual football fan.

He has been more of a petulant child: "I won't play and you can't make me." He tries to tease social media to stay relevant, but has managed to crater his marketing value.

He'll soon be some other teams problem.

That said, can the Steelers make use of the money they reserved for Bell under the salary cap?

I don't think it's fair to characterize him as a petulant child for holding out. Football is a rough sport, more so than other professional sports, and the average player doesn't last too long. Everybody is one freak injury away from being a former player. They literally sacrifice their bodies to entertain us. Why shouldn't he try to extract the maximum value possible? I admire him for taking a stand and sticking to his guns in the face of a lot of criticism.

[BD80]

I don't think it's fair to characterize him as a petulant child for holding out. Football is a rough sport, more so than other professional sports, and the average player doesn't last too long. Everybody is one freak injury away from being a former player. They literally sacrifice their bodies to entertain us. Why shouldn't he try to extract the maximum value possible? I admire him for taking a stand and sticking to his guns in the face of a lot of criticism.

And yet he plays pick-up basketball, goes jet-skiing, etc. And these aren't the recreational activities you and I might enjoy, but the all-out alpha dog efforts that lead to injuries.

LeVeon has always chafed at the bit with respect to the NFL restrictions. He was arrested for DUI and marijuana possession in 2014, for which he was suspended 2 games (reduced from 4) in 2015. He tested positive in 2016, leading to a 3 game suspension (down from 4). Part of me wonders if, like Martavias Bryant, after an extended "vacation" from football, LeVeon couldn't get clean to pass the drug test to play this year. He really isn't too bright. The fact that he fancies himself a music artist (stage name "juice") is sufficient evidence there.

Some football players are bright, articulate men. LeVeon isn't one of them.

[elvis14]

Some football players are bright, articulate men. LeVeon isn't one of them.

I can think of about 14.5 million reasons that I agree with this.

[Acymetric]

I think he is asking about the mechanics of the different tags and how much he could earn. He had a $14.5 million contract for this season which is now gone. I think the question is how much would he get if the Steelers franchise tagged him again. I have read that there is some debate as to whether he gets the year 2 franchise tag (again roughly $14.5 million) since he didn't actually play this season, or the year 3 franchise tag of $20+ million. Either way, I think the Steelers will just let him go.

I agree that the whole thing makes no sense at all. He allegedly turned down a lot of guaranteed money before the season, and lost out on his $14.5 million this season. If my favorite team needed a running back, I would rather take my chances on someone a lot less talented than have his toxic personality in my locker room. In addition to the lost playing earnings, I'm guessing he won't earn a penny of endorsement money, which could have been lucrative if he had a rosier personality.

On an unrelated note, the upcoming Rams-Chiefs game that was scheduled for Mexico City is being moved to LA because the field in Mexico City was in such bad shape - apparently the players were saying they didn't want to play there. The NFL will have to do a lot of logistical (and political) juggling to make this work. I believe the Rams were planning to practice in Colorado this week to prepare for the altitude. I am not very familiar with the LA area but I think some of their practice facilities are not too far from the fire zone. Football is obviously trivial compared to what is happening in California right now, but there is a lot of disruption for the Rams.

No, I am talking about the third type of tag, the transition tag (different from the non-exclusive and exclusive franchise tags). Everywhere I see it reported, it is suggested that the transition tag would be $14.5 million, with the ability to match any offer sheet from another team. I guess it means that the base rate for the tag is 14.5 mil if nobody else offers him something better, but if they do the Steelers could (but most likely won't) match it? My questions are specific to the transition tag, I do understand how the other tags work. Mostly I don't fully understand why the 14.5 mil figure (for the transition tag, if it were applied NEXT year) is relevant.

[Acymetric]

Sorry for the double-post here, but: I suspect that when the details of Bell's next contract come out anyone who is honest will admit that he came out ahead after pulling this move. We'll find out several months from now I suppose!

[elvis14]

Sorry for the double-post here, but: I suspect that when the details of Bell's next contract come out anyone who is honest will admit that he came out ahead after pulling this move. We'll find out several months from now I suppose!

I don't think we could ever really say that because we don't know if he would have made it through this season without getting injured and we won't know if the the Steelers with Bell would have made a real run at the title. If he had played this year and then signed that same 'next contract' would he not have come out $14.5 million ahead? And yes, that assumes he didn't get hurt.

[Turk]

By the way, Bell failed to report today so he is not getting paid and not playing at all in 2018. I'm sure his agent is playing 3-dimension chess in some way none of us can appreciate but I think this was unfathomably stupid. Bell should have shown up today and gotten at least half of his money while also accruing a year of service time. This makes no sense at all.

The agent is saying Bell should be paid according to his numbers, simple as that. He's a special player, and getting more touches at a historically unsustainable rate. Bell holds the Steelers single-season record for yards from scrimmage, and highest yards from scrimmage per game over first 62 career games since AFL-NFL merger in 1970. Three data points for consideration:

Todd Gurley: 4 yrs / $45M guaranteed / $57.5M max
David Johnson: 3 yrs / $31.8M guaranteed / $39M max
Le'Veon Bell: 7 yrs / $17M guaranteed / $70M max (unconfirmed offer)

We all know the max never happens. The contract is either renegotiated or the player is cut.



"is it possible that he and the Steelers reached some kind of under the table deal for Bell not to show (thereby saving the Steelers some money this year) and for them not to transition or franchise tag him next year?"

No. The bridges have been burned. (Interesting tongue-in-cheek conspiracy theory, though...)


He had a $14.5 million contract for this season which is now gone. I think the question is how much would he get if the Steelers franchise tagged him again. I have read that there is some debate as to whether he gets the year 2 franchise tag (again roughly $14.5 million) since he didn't actually play this season, or the year 3 franchise tag of $20+ million. Either way, I think the Steelers will just let him go.

I agree that the whole thing makes no sense at all. He allegedly turned down a lot of guaranteed money before the season, and lost out on his $14.5 million this season. If my favorite team needed a running back, I would rather take my chances on someone a lot less talented than have his toxic personality in my locker room. In addition to the lost playing earnings, I'm guessing he won't earn a penny of endorsement money, which could have been lucrative if he had a rosier personality.

The franchise tag numbers are correct. However, I don't know of any indications Bell is a "toxic personality" in the locker room. By all accounts, the players would welcome him back with open arms; they were just tired of the situation dragging on as it did. Every Eagles fan I know wants Bell in Philly no questions asked. I am not familiar with Bell's agent; how would this story play out differently if his agent had a Drew Rosenhaus / Scott Boras reputation?


As a result of this, the Steelers are now $14.5 mil under the cap (actually, probably more than that as most teams preserve some cap space throughout the season in case they need it in an emergency). They could choose to use that money this year but are likely to just hold onto it and use it next year. The nfl allows teams to carry over extra cap space from year to year so count on the Steelers being major free agency players next summer as they will likely have a ton of space to work with.


I beg to differ. The Steelers have never been major free agency players whether they have cap space or not. They prefer to re-sign their core players instead, sometimes extending longer than their shelf life (e.g. Troy Polamalu, Heath Miller). When the Steelers have dabbled in the free agent market, the targets have been second-tier guys, and the results have been mixed at best.


No, I am talking about the third type of tag, the transition tag (different from the non-exclusive and exclusive franchise tags). Everywhere I see it reported, it is suggested that the transition tag would be $14.5 million, with the ability to match any offer sheet from another team. I guess it means that the base rate for the tag is 14.5 mil if nobody else offers him something better, but if they do the Steelers could (but most likely won't) match it? My questions are specific to the transition tag, I do understand how the other tags work. Mostly I don't fully understand why the 14.5 mil figure (for the transition tag, if it were applied NEXT year) is relevant.

The $14.5 transition tag is a one-year offer, calculated by a formula similar to the franchise tag: average of top 10 salaries at the position, or 120% of player's current salary, whichever is greater. Given the current situation, there's no reason for the Steelers to match another team's offer. James Connor is making less than $600K and pretty much carrying Bell's same workload. Also, the Steelers would lose any chance of getting a compensatory draft pick if Bell signs elsewhere as a regular free agent.

I don't hold any ill will towards Le'Veon (of course, Connor's performance makes it very easy to be magnanimous). I hope he signs a massive contract with a good NFC franchise next year. "It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business..."

TL;DR section:

Wiki on the Transition Tag (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_tag)

The Ringer Le'Veon Bell Deadline FAQ (https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/11/13/18092370/leveon-bell-pittsburgh-steelers-franchise-tag-deadline-faq)

The Undefeated profile of Bell's agent (https://theundefeated.com/features/steelers-leveon-bell-agent-adisa-bakari-knows-the-struggle/)

[JasonEvans]

The Cleveland Browns want to talk to Condi Rice about being their next head coach (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25310452/cleveland-browns-want-interview-condoleezza-rice-head-coaching-job).

I certainly can see her as a wonderful organizer and capable leader, but in terms of football skills, strategy, and the such I don't get picking someone who has never played or coached the game at any level. I could see her as a GM, for sure. But coach... I dunno. I suppose she would leave all the teaching and play calling to her assistants.

-Jason "it certainly makes Cleveland a lot more interesting... hmmmm" Evans

[Acymetric]

The Cleveland Browns want to talk to Condi Rice about being their next head coach (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25310452/cleveland-browns-want-interview-condoleezza-rice-head-coaching-job).

I certainly can see her as a wonderful organizer and capable leader, but in terms of football skills, strategy, and the such I don't get picking someone who has never played or coached the game at any level. I could see her as a GM, for sure. But coach... I dunno. I suppose she would leave all the teaching and play calling to her assistants.

-Jason "it certainly makes Cleveland a lot more interesting... hmmmm" Evans

That would be a very Browns move, I'll leave it at that.

[BD80]

The Cleveland Browns want to talk to Condi Rice about being their next head coach (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25310452/cleveland-browns-want-interview-condoleezza-rice-head-coaching-job).

...


Would this be worse than their last dozen or so coaches (which covers the last 20 years)?

[elvis14]

Redskins QB Alex Smith out for the rest of the season with a badly broken leg. That's 3 starters to IR in the last 3 weeks, two OL and now QB1. Colt McCoy is our backup and he's a decent QB2 but he's not a QB1. Argh.

[mkirsh]

Redskins QB Alex Smith out for the rest of the season with a badly broken leg. That's 3 starters to IR in the last 3 weeks, two OL and now QB1. Colt McCoy is our backup and he's a decent QB2 but he's not a QB1. Argh.

11/18/85 - Joe Theismann suffered a compound fracture in his leg after being sacked by 3 time defensive player of the year LT. The Skins would beat the Giants 23-21. Skins go to 6-5; Giants 7-4.

11/18/18 - Alex Smith suffered a compound fracture after being sacked by the only other 3 time NFL defensive player of the year JJ Watt. The Skins lose to the Texans 23-21. Skins go to 6-4; Texans 7-3.

[weezie]

Please accept my apologies for the upcoming Thursday Lions game.

My head hangs in shame.

[Reddevil]

Can you imagine if that were the Superbowl? That's what I kept thinking while watching that. Vegas would have short circuited. What a spectacle. It was like watching 1999 Duke against 2018 Duke. Amazing to see an entire week's worth of NFL highlights in one game. There were plenty of defensive highlights too. Just incredible.

[left_hook_lacey]

The Cleveland Browns want to talk to Condi Rice about being their next head coach (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25310452/cleveland-browns-want-interview-condoleezza-rice-head-coaching-job).

I certainly can see her as a wonderful organizer and capable leader, but in terms of football skills, strategy, and the such I don't get picking someone who has never played or coached the game at any level. I could see her as a GM, for sure. But coach... I dunno. I suppose she would leave all the teaching and play calling to her assistants.

-Jason "it certainly makes Cleveland a lot more interesting... hmmmm" Evans

Read the article, the only thing I can think of is......"why?"

[elvis14]

Can you imagine if that were the Superbowl? That's what I kept thinking while watching that. Vegas would have short circuited. What a spectacle. It was like watching 1999 Duke against 2018 Duke. Amazing to see an entire week's worth of NFL highlights in one game. There were plenty of defensive highlights too. Just incredible.

That was fun to watch. So many fantastically good players and plays.

[weezie]

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2018/11/26/detroit-lions-jeopardy/2121384002/

[JasonEvans]

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2018/11/26/detroit-lions-jeopardy/2121384002/

The Lions haven't won a playoff game since 1991?!?! That's simply stunning.

[BD80]

The Lions haven't won a playoff game since 1991?!?! That's simply stunning.

Welcome to our world ...

[JasonEvans]

In the category of “that escalated quickly,” the Kansas City Chiefs just released their star running back Kareem hunt. A video surfaced a couple hours ago of him getting into a fight with a woman, he pushes her and kicks her. It took very little time for the team to decide to completely sever ties with Hunt.

Jason “ The NFL is a very different place from just a couple years ago when it comes to domestic violence. About time!” Evans

[duketaylor]

In the category of “that escalated quickly,” the Kansas City Chiefs just released their star running back Kareem hunt. A video surfaced a couple hours ago of him getting into a fight with a woman, he pushes her and kicks her. It took very little time for the team to decide to completely sever ties with Hunt.

Jason “ The NFL is a very different place from just a couple years ago when it comes to domestic violence. About time!” Evans

It appears, from what I've seen, that the NFL and the Chiefs had prior knowledge of this and it was just made public. Why, I'm not sure. It seems an investigation was done and that Hunt lied about the allegations. So, someone had the video and decided to release today (or very recently) and now this hits. Very strange.

Guessing the Redskins will now pick him up (yes, cheap-shot at the Skins), after picking up Reuben last week.

[elvis14]

It appears, from what I've seen, that the NFL and the Chiefs had prior knowledge of this and it was just made public. Why, I'm not sure. It seems an investigation was done and that Hunt lied about the allegations. So, someone had the video and decided to release today (or very recently) and now this hits. Very strange.

Guessing the Redskins will now pick him up (yes, cheap-shot at the Skins), after picking up Reuben last week.

Redskins fans feel like they are hated anyway so we might as well...

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It appears, from what I've seen, that the NFL and the Chiefs had prior knowledge of this and it was just made public. Why, I'm not sure. It seems an investigation was done and that Hunt lied about the allegations. So, someone had the video and decided to release today (or very recently) and now this hits. Very strange.

Guessing the Redskins will now pick him up (yes, cheap-shot at the Skins), after picking up Reuben last week.

I'm not surprised by the quick move. Reading reports or interviews with witnesses is one thing. Seeing a massive athlete kick a woman on the ground is a visceral experience.

Video matters. Ask Ray Rice.

[rsvman]

Redskins fans feel like they are hated anyway so we might as well...

Redskins season is over. Now we're trotting out Mark freakin' Sanchez and using THIRD-STRING lineman to try to protect him. Really?

Now I guess they are going to have to go quarterback shopping at the local Home Depot (or wherever no-longer-functional quarterbacks go to make money) so they can get a back-up to the back-up to the back-up quarterback. And no, I did not use "back-up" too many times. Sigh.

[elvis14]

Redskins season is over. Now we're trotting out Mark freakin' Sanchez and using THIRD-STRING lineman to try to protect him. Really?

Now I guess they are going to have to go quarterback shopping at the local Home Depot (or wherever no-longer-functional quarterbacks go to make money) so they can get a back-up to the back-up to the back-up quarterback. And no, I did not use "back-up" too many times. Sigh.

Second year in a row that our offensive line has been decimated by injuries. Lots of Redskins fans seem to hate on Kirk but he threw for 4000 yards behind third string lineman. I was not happy that they couldn't find anyone better or with more upside than Sanchez aka Butt Fumble Boy. Some suggested Paxston Lynch but I don't know that would help all. Leading the league in games lost to injury is not a stat I'm interested in racking up. So frustrating.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Second year in a row that our offensive line has been decimated by injuries. Lots of Redskins fans seem to hate on Kirk but he threw for 4000 yards behind third string lineman. I was not happy that they couldn't find anyone better or with more upside than Sanchez aka Butt Fumble Boy. Some suggested Paxston Lynch but I don't know that would help all. Leading the league in games lost to injury is not a stat I'm interested in racking up. So frustrating.

Crazy that there isn't a qualified fit young QB with Super Bowl experience looking for a team.

[rsvman]

Crazy that there isn't a qualified fit young QB with Super Bowl experience looking for a team.

They may just have to snap him up and let he and butt-fumble boy duke it out.

[wilson]

They may just have to snap him up and let he and butt-fumble boy duke it out.I'd really love to see the currently unemployed QB in question wrestle with the notion of suiting up for the Washington Racial Slurs.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I'd really love to see the currently unemployed QB in question wrestle with the notion of suiting up for the Washington Racial Slurs.

That would be high drama.

[BD80]

I'd really love to see the currently unemployed QB in question wrestle with the notion of suiting up for the Washington Racial Slurs.

He'd probably kneel every time he takes a snap ...

[weezie]

I'd really love to see the currently unemployed QB in question wrestle with the notion of suiting up for the Washington Racial Slurs.

I'm thinking he'd seize the chance in a heartbeat?

[rsvman]

I wonder if Johnny Football or Tim Tebow are available.......

[Indoor66]

The old "beauty and beholder" conundrum.

[JNort]

Crazy that there isn't a qualified fit young QB with Super Bowl experience looking for a team.

Unfortunately there isn't. I'd try out Johnny though, still has upside and seemingly has turned his issues around.

[JasonEvans]

A pointless and increasingly antagonistic conversation about the nickname of a certain NFL team has been deleted from this thread.

https://i.imgur.com/NI3UHLg.jpg

Please don't start it back up again.

[CDu]

Unfortunately there isn't. I'd try out Johnny though, still has upside and seemingly has turned his issues around.

I mean, I would absolutely try said “hypothetical” available QB with Super Bowl experience (and he does exist, though certainly hasn’t played at that level for a few years now) over a never-has-been with off-field issues like Manziel. And even morsel over Mark Sanchez.

[JNort]

I mean, I would absolutely try said “hypothetical” available QB with Super Bowl experience (and he does exist, though certainly hasn’t played at that level for a few years now) over a never-has-been with off-field issues like Manziel. And even morsel over Mark Sanchez.

Well he doesn't wanna play so that's why I said that. He has had opportunities and has turned them down for a glorified publicity stunt that he never intended to happen.

Johnny looked ok for a rookie, is still young, and has worked to better himself. Give me the guy who truly believes in bettering his position and has upside over a has been who doesn't wanna play.

[CDu]

Well he doesn't wanna play so that's why I said that. He has had opportunities and has turned them down for a glorified publicity stunt that he never intended to happen.

Johnny looked ok for a rookie, is still young, and has worked to better himself. Give me the guy who truly believes in bettering his position and has upside over a has been who doesn't wanna play.

It is not at all clear that he doesn’t want to play. And I suspect that he has gotten way fewer opportunities than his resume would suggest. But, whatever.

And I don’t see much upside in Manziel. Weak arm, small, no pocket awareness. He has quicks, but is that enough?

[Wander]

Johnny looked ok for a rookie, is still young, and has worked to better himself. Give me the guy who truly believes in bettering his position and has upside over a has been who doesn't wanna play.

Um, what? What about anything Manziel has done since college, including this past year, makes you think he could do anything in the NFL? His 5:7 TD-INT ratio in Canadian football?

I think it's a false choice – at this point, I would rather sign a random undrafted guy than Kap or Manziel, for purely football reasons. But I don't see any reason to be high on Manziel.

[weezie]

Awful post surgery report on Alex Smith. Infection in the bone and talking heads reporting it might be career ending. They're actually trying to save his leg.

I feel terrible for the guy. Just a grueling state right now.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Dolphins stun Pats on last play with hook and lateral (double lat) TD for about 65 yards. Gronk looked awful as the last man with a chance to save the game with a tackle.

And yes, I know...too soon.....

[JasonEvans]

Dolphins stun Pats on last play with hook and lateral (double lat) TD for about 65 yards. Gronk looked awful as the last man with a chance to save the game with a tackle.

And yes, I know...too soon....

That was some truly terrible defense. Where were all the defenders?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSGqlXQdh20

[Acymetric]

Dolphins stun Pats on last play with hook and lateral (double lat) TD for about 65 yards. Gronk looked awful as the last man with a chance to save the game with a tackle.

And yes, I know...too soon...

Must be something in the water down there.

[elvis14]

Anyone hear about the search party they need to send out to try and find the Washington Redskins. Apparently, they failed to show up for their game today :-(

[BD80]

Anyone hear about the search party they need to send out to try and find the Washington Redskins. Apparently, they failed to show up for their game today :-(

They were found sipping tea with the Steelers, who have been MIA for the last few weeks.

[devildeac]

And, after 55 years, I still despise the cowboys.

[DukieInKansas]

And, after 55 years, I still despise the cowboys.

You are not alone.

Patrick Mahomes and his receivers made some amazing plays today.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Anyone hear about the search party they need to send out to try and find the Washington Redskins. Apparently, they failed to show up for their game today :-(

Well, I'd like to lay the blame on deciding Mark ButtFumble was the best available option at QB, but that defense was abhorrent.

[kmspeaks]

Well, I'd like to lay the blame on deciding Mark ButtFumble was the best available option at QB, but that defense was abhorrent.

There has been a lot of "ink" wasted on the Redskins QB situation after Alex Smith went down. It doesn't matter who's under center when he has no one to throw it to, I love Jamison Crowder but if he's the number 1 WR on a NFL team you're in trouble, and no time to throw it behind that backup to the backups offensive line. Even in the dumpster fire that is the NFC East the season was over once Scherff and Lauvao went down. Pretending the Redskins could have brought in another QB to save the season is just click bait.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

That was some truly terrible defense. Where were all the defenders?


What I heard was that all the defenders were playing off the man with the ball to defend the lateral. That seems to make sense when you watch how they do NOT swarm the ball at any point in the play. Tragic mistake. And why Gronk looked less athletic than Zoub did when Zoub was injured......i've no idea. He looked awful.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

There has been a lot of "ink" wasted on the Redskins QB situation after Alex Smith went down. It doesn't matter who's under center when he has no one to throw it to, I love Jamison Crowder but if he's the number 1 WR on a NFL team you're in trouble, and no time to throw it behind that backup to the backups offensive line. Even in the dumpster fire that is the NFC East the season was over once Scherff and Lauvao went down. Pretending the Redskins could have brought in another QB to save the season is just click bait.

Well, I did state that the defense was absolutely terrible, but I would argue that it makes no more sense to say that the ink is "wasted" since there's no O-line that it does to pretend that Sanchez would be expected to do anything greater than what he did yesterday. I'm bowing out of all future DC NFL posts/threads, as I clearly have no understanding of what the heck is going on there. All I will say is - that division is friggin confounding.

[JasonEvans]

What I heard was that all the defenders were playing off the man with the ball to defend the lateral. That seems to make sense when you watch how they do NOT swarm the ball at any point in the play. Tragic mistake. And why Gronk looked less athletic than Zoub did when Zoub was injured...i've no idea. He looked awful.

When it comes to football, I know Bill Bellichek is the smartest man in the room 99 times out of 100, but I have to ask...

What was Gronk doing on the field on that play?!?!

I get that when there is a jump ball in the end zone possibility, you sometimes put in a TE because he is taller and can sometimes break up the pass, but the Dolphins were on their own 31. It is one thing to throw a 40 or 50 yard jump ball... but there was no way Ryan Tannehill was going to throw the ball 70+ yards in the air on that play. The Patriots needed guys who could tackle someone, not guys who could bat down a lob.

[camion]

When it comes to football, I know Bill Bellichek is the smartest man in the room 99 times out of 100, but I have to ask...

What was Gronk doing on the field on that play?!?!

I get that when there is a jump ball in the end zone possibility, you sometimes put in a TE because he is taller and can sometimes break up the pass, but the Dolphins were on their own 31. It is one thing to throw a 40 or 50 yard jump ball... but there was no way Ryan Tannehill was going to throw the ball 70+ yards in the air on that play. The Patriots needed guys who could tackle someone, not guys who could bat down a lob.

So you don't think Gronk would make the Hall of Fame as a safety?


:p

[JasonEvans]

So you don't think Gronk would make the Hall of Fame as a safety?


:p

https://media.giphy.com/media/cRMf5NV9q2hjij9jLL/giphy.gif

[elvis14]

There has been a lot of "ink" wasted on the Redskins QB situation after Alex Smith went down. It doesn't matter who's under center when he has no one to throw it to, I love Jamison Crowder but if he's the number 1 WR on a NFL team you're in trouble, and no time to throw it behind that backup to the backups offensive line. Even in the dumpster fire that is the NFC East the season was over once Scherff and Lauvao went down. Pretending the Redskins could have brought in another QB to save the season is just click bait.

Spot on kmspeaks. Losing both start OG's and Trent Williams for a while to ended the Redskins season. I hate what happened to Alex Smith and I hope he has a full recovery but even if he didn't get hurt, we were done.

Crowder is a great #2 or #3 WR but even he has been hurt most of the season.

Whoever the coach and GM are next year, I hope they do a good job drafting these two positions. I will admit, for the most part I liked what they did in the draft the last 2 years but Allen last year and Guice this year being injured didn't help.