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Bob Green
10-12-2018, 02:43 PM
Here are this week's games:

Louisville at Boston College (12:30 pm) ACCNE
Pittsburgh at #5 Notre Dame (2:30 pm) NBC
#16 Miami at Virginia (7:00 pm) ESPN2
Virginia Tech at North Carolina (7:00 pm) ESPNU

Bob Green
10-13-2018, 05:53 PM
Pitt gave Notre Dame all they could handle before falling 19-14.

richardjackson199
10-13-2018, 05:57 PM
Pitt gave Notre Dame all they could handle before falling 19-14.

Notre Dame will make college football playoff (probably with Clemson, Ohio State, and Alabama). Still plenty of football to play of course. But nobody left on Notre Dame's schedule is likely to beat them. Tough to leave them out if they are undefeated.

Bob Green
10-13-2018, 08:38 PM
Halftime: Carolina 9, VT 7

Virginia up on Miami 10-6 with 1:20 to go in the half.

Bob Green
10-13-2018, 08:43 PM
Halftime: Virginia 13, Miami 6

chrishoke
10-13-2018, 08:45 PM
Heels have been the much better team and should be up 2 TDs.

CameronBornAndBred
10-13-2018, 08:57 PM
Notre Dame will make college football playoff (probably with Clemson, Ohio State, and Alabama). Still plenty of football to play of course. But nobody left on Notre Dame's schedule is likely to beat them. Tough to leave them out if they are undefeated.

You are probably right, but I wouldn't have given Pitt a chance today, and they had one.

CameronBornAndBred
10-13-2018, 08:58 PM
Heels have been the much better team and should be up 2 TDs.

While I don't want them to win, a Heels victory helps us in our Coastal quest.

tteettimes
10-13-2018, 09:01 PM
Watching VaTeck /cheats
Ain’t same VT team we saw

arnie
10-13-2018, 09:05 PM
Watching VaTeck /cheats
Ain’t same VT team we saw

No kidding - were watching VT - ODU type performance. VT looks disinterested.

Faison1
10-13-2018, 09:08 PM
No kidding - were watching VT - ODU type performance. VT looks disinterested.

Stinks that UNC is winning, but good for us if VPI loses....

PackMan97
10-13-2018, 09:13 PM
No kidding - were watching VT - ODU type performance. VT looks disinterested.

They don't call 'em the cHokies for nothing.

HereBeforeCoachK
10-13-2018, 09:59 PM
They don't call 'em the cHokies for nothing.

Had the cheats pinned, gave up an 80 yard pass....at this point, looks very much like the Hokies and the U are going down tonight.

dukelifer
10-13-2018, 10:18 PM
Had the cheats pinned, gave up an 80 yard pass...at this point, looks very much like the Hokies and the U are going down tonight.

Tech forces a fumble on the 2 and goes 98 yards for the score with 19 sec to go.

PackMan97
10-13-2018, 10:19 PM
Had the cheats pinned, gave up an 80 yard pass...at this point, looks very much like the Hokies and the U are going down tonight.

Dear VT, please don't kickoff to Gio.

Stray Gator
10-13-2018, 10:20 PM
Had the cheats pinned, gave up an 80 yard pass...at this point, looks very much like the Hokies and the U are going down tonight.

Heels bidding for an epic fold. Fumbled on the VT one-yard line while running in for a clinching touchdown, then VT goes the length of the field and scores a go-ahead touchdown and a 2-point conversion to take a 3-point lead with 19 seconds remaining.

Bob Green
10-13-2018, 10:21 PM
Final: VT 22, Carolina 19

Carolina turned it over and VT drove 96 yards for the winning TD.

DU82
10-13-2018, 10:21 PM
Had the cheats pinned, gave up an 80 yard pass...at this point, looks very much like the Hokies and the U are going down tonight.

Well...

Going in for the winning TD, the cheaters fumble (ball knocked straight up) and VPISU recovers at the three. The Gobblers then go 97 yards in 18 plays to score on a great rollout with 19 seconds left, then gets the two point conversion with the SAME PLAY.

VT 22-19.

arnie
10-13-2018, 10:22 PM
Had the cheats pinned, gave up an 80 yard pass...at this point, looks very much like the Hokies and the U are going down tonight.

Uh no. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahha to the Cheats.

dukelifer
10-13-2018, 10:22 PM
Heels bidding for an epic fold. Fumbled on the VT one-yard line while running in for a clinching touchdown, then VT goes the length of the field and scores a go-ahead touchdown and a 2-point conversion to take a 3-point lead with 19 seconds remaining.

The players may have sealed Fedora's fate on that one.

PackMan97
10-13-2018, 10:25 PM
Heels bidding for an epic fold. Fumbled on the VT one-yard line while running in for a clinching touchdown, then VT goes the length of the field and scores a go-ahead touchdown and a 2-point conversion to take a 3-point lead with 19 seconds remaining.

And that's a final. VT 22 - Cheaters 19.

Gotta love the Tarheels giving their fans hope at home and then giving it away and blowing it. Only bad thing is this is one loss closer to getting rid of Fedora. Fedora has their program heading in the right direction and really just needs more time.

Bob Green
10-13-2018, 10:26 PM
Final: Virginia 16, Miami 13

UrinalCake
10-13-2018, 10:26 PM
Clearly we were VT's Superbowl.

HereBeforeCoachK
10-13-2018, 10:30 PM
Uh no. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahha to the Cheats.

That IS funny....wow....that is an epic fold. That's like Duke in the 70s, 80s, 90s....they had them beat, and totally gagged.

Much as I enjoy this for chapel college, a VT loss would've helped the Devils potentially.

HereBeforeCoachK
10-13-2018, 10:32 PM
Dear VT, please don't kickoff to Gio.

oh, nicely played sir....

devildeac
10-13-2018, 10:38 PM
And that's a final. VT 22 - Cheaters 19.

Gotta love the Tarheels giving their fans hope at home and then giving it away and blowing it. Only bad thing is this is one loss closer to getting rid of Fedora. Fedora has their program heading in the right direction and really just needs more time.


I posted something like that several weeks ago:

Lifetime contract. #GoFundMe

Duke and Pack fans need to contribute heavily to this one.

;)

CameronBornAndBred
10-13-2018, 10:49 PM
That IS funny...wow...that is an epic fold. That's like Duke in the 70s, 80s, 90s...they had them beat, and totally gagged.

Much as I enjoy this for chapel college, a VT loss would've helped the Devils potentially.

Not potentially. Totally would have. I really wanted that VT loss, especially since I am looking forward to beating the cheaters in a few weeks.

Newton_14
10-13-2018, 10:58 PM
Heels bidding for an epic fold. Fumbled on the VT one-yard line while running in for a clinching touchdown, then VT goes the length of the field and scores a go-ahead touchdown and a 2-point conversion to take a 3-point lead with 19 seconds remaining.

That was beautiful to watch! Cherry on top of that the look on The Hats face when the clock struck zero. I honestly thought the man was going to cry! Eat that 1 and 4 record Hat man!

VaTech is showing that they played well above their heads against Duke and also caught us on a night where we were very flat. I think we can beat any Coastal Team left on our schedule. Maybe pull a miracle against Clemson to boot! ... Ok that was Ozzie-esque but a man can dream right?

CameronBornAndBred
10-13-2018, 11:14 PM
Maybe pull a miracle against Clemson to boot!

Twice!

Reilly
10-13-2018, 11:40 PM
VT 3-0 ... GT ... BC ...@Pitt ... Mia ... UVa

UVa 2-1 ... @Duke ... UNC ... Pitt ... @GT ... @VT
Mia 2-1 ... @BC ... Duke ... @GT ... @VT ... Pitt
Pitt 2-1 ... Duke ... @UVa ... VT ... @WFU ... @Mia

Duke 1-1 ... UVa ... @Pitt ...@Mia ... UNC ... @Clemson ... WFU

UNC 1-2 ... @Syr ... @UVa ... GT ... @Duke ... NCSU

GT 1-3 ... @VT ... @UNC ... Mia ... UVa

wilson
10-14-2018, 05:09 PM
Some nice love from this week’s ESPN power rankings (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24975544/college-football-power-rankings-anyone-challenge-alabama-crimson-tide), where our boys check in at #19(!):

“...Yes, [Duke] looked off their game in a loss to Virginia Tech, but it's hard to overlook the quality of the opponents they've beaten to date.”

JasonEvans
10-15-2018, 08:31 AM
I posted something like that several weeks ago:

Lifetime contract. #GoFundMe

Duke and Pack fans need to contribute heavily to this one.

It was just three short years ago that Fedora led UNC to an 8-0 sweep of the Coastal division on their way to an 11-3 record and a final national ranking of #15. They were 8-5 (5-3 in the ACC) just two years ago. It appears they are getting good recruits. They have had the 4th or 5th best recruiting class in the conference every year since 2013. When you consider they are probably never going to beat schools like Clemson and FSU (and only rarely will they beat Miami or Va Tech) at recruiting, consistently being 4th-5th in the league isn't at all shabby.

Now, if they continue to lose every game, he may be in some trouble, but I think Fedora gets at least one more season. Don't forget that he has a massive buyout after they gave him a 7 year contract a couple years ago that pays him $3.5 mil a season. As a result, if they fire him this year, he gets a $14 mil buyout. It drops to $10.5 mil after the next season, $7 mil after 2020 and $3.5 mil after 2021. I have a hard time seeing Carolina sucking up a $14 mil buyout.

-Jason "like all of you, I am happy to see him stick around, not because he sucks but because I worry they will get someone really good who will turn the program into a powerhouse" Evans

JasonEvans
10-15-2018, 08:32 AM
Some nice love from this week’s ESPN power rankings (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24975544/college-football-power-rankings-anyone-challenge-alabama-crimson-tide), where our boys check in at #19(!):

“...Yes, [Duke] looked off their game in a loss to Virginia Tech, but it's hard to overlook the quality of the opponents they've beaten to date.”

We are #18 in the Massey Composite (https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm)of a couple dozen ranking services.

devildeac
10-15-2018, 09:33 AM
It was just three short years ago that Fedora led UNC to an 8-0 sweep of the Coastal division on their way to an 11-3 record and a final national ranking of #15. They were 8-5 (5-3 in the ACC) just two years ago. It appears they are getting good recruits. They have had the 4th or 5th best recruiting class in the conference every year since 2013. When you consider they are probably never going to beat schools like Clemson and FSU (and only rarely will they beat Miami or Va Tech) at recruiting, consistently being 4th-5th in the league isn't at all shabby.

Now, if they continue to lose every game, he may be in some trouble, but I think Fedora gets at least one more season. Don't forget that he has a massive buyout after they gave him a 7 year contract a couple years ago that pays him $3.5 mil a season. As a result, if they fire him this year, he gets a $14 mil buyout. It drops to $10.5 mil after the next season, $7 mil after 2020 and $3.5 mil after 2021. I have a hard time seeing Carolina sucking up a $14 mil buyout.

-Jason "like all of you, I am happy to see him stick around, not because he sucks but because I worry they will get someone really good who will turn the program into a powerhouse" Evans

I knew there was some sort of obscene buy-out but I didn't realize how massive it would actually be. Thanks for the info.

May be we need a "Save the Hat" campaign. :rolleyes:

OldPhiKap
10-15-2018, 11:16 AM
I knew there was some sort of obscene buy-out but I didn't realize how massive it would actually be. Thanks for the info.

May be we need a "Save the Hat" campaign. :rolleyes:

Isn't that a "pass the Hat" thing?

PackMan97
10-15-2018, 12:48 PM
-Jason "like all of you, I am happy to see him stick around, not because he sucks but because I worry they will get someone really good who will turn the program into a powerhouse" Evans

I used to worry about this, but no longer. Carolina Football is and will always be a jumping off point to the powers of college football. It will never be a destination. Let's face it, they put a basketball player on their football jerseys this year. Do you think Nick Saban would ever allow that? Urban Meyer? Dabo Sweeny? Jimbo Fisher? The only coach I can think of that might be happy with that is Mike Leech because he's crazy.

Do you think a program that just went from almost 63,000 seats to 50,500 seats is a destination program?

Do you think a big time coach is going to want to play second fiddle to basketball? Do you think Carolina will ever bring the fans like Clemson, Bama, Auburn, Michigan, tOSU, etc?

There is no Frank Beamer out there for Carolina. There is Bobby Bowden out there. There isn't even a Cutcliff or Jim Grobe for Carolina.

It's far more likely that NC State gets a "program changer" to stick around simply because we do have the football culture and fans that will create loyalty. Even then I'm not sure we have pockets deep enough to fend off the big programs. I'm hoping we get the chance to find out with Doeren. (which either means he wins big and bolts for a larger program, or he wins big and sticks around...either way we would have won big ;p )

OldPhiKap
10-15-2018, 01:00 PM
I used to worry about this, but no longer. Carolina Football is and will always be a jumping off point to the powers of college football. It will never be a destination. Let's face it, they put a basketball player on their football jerseys this year. Do you think Nick Saban would ever allow that? Urban Meyer? Dabo Sweeny? Jimbo Fisher? The only coach I can think of that might be happy with that is Mike Leech because he's crazy.

Do you think a program that just went from almost 63,000 seats to 50,500 seats is a destination program?

Do you think a big time coach is going to want to play second fiddle to basketball? Do you think Carolina will ever bring the fans like Clemson, Bama, Auburn, Michigan, tOSU, etc?

There is no Frank Beamer out there for Carolina. There is Bobby Bowden out there. There isn't even a Cutcliff or Jim Grobe for Carolina.

It's far more likely that NC State gets a "program changer" to stick around simply because we do have the football culture and fans that will create loyalty. Even then I'm not sure we have pockets deep enough to fend off the big programs. I'm hoping we get the chance to find out with Doeren. (which either means he wins big and bolts for a larger program, or he wins big and sticks around...either way we would have won big ;p )

Of course, many of those arguments could be used in looking at Duke. But when the administration finally got serious about putting some real money into the team, we went and got a pretty good coach who was coming off getting fired at Ole Miss and had slunk back to Knoxville.

There are good folks out there that are better than The Hat. And there are folks willing to put up the $$$ in Ramville. I do worry that their next hire is a big upgrade.

PackMan97
10-15-2018, 01:26 PM
Of course, many of those arguments could be used in looking at Duke. But when the administration finally got serious about putting some real money into the team, we went and got a pretty good coach who was coming off getting fired at Ole Miss and had slunk back to Knoxville.

There are good folks out there that are better than The Hat. And there are folks willing to put up the $$$ in Ramville. I do worry that their next hire is a big upgrade.

I am certainly not saying that their next hire won't be better than Fedora, but I think someone good enough to turn Carolina into a power is going to bolt and want a shot with a program that will worship them. No matter how good Carolina is in football, as soon as basketball season starts football is over.

I present to you the 1997 Tarheels - They went 11-1 with a top 5 ranking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_North_Carolina_Tar_Heels_football_team

Once they lost to FSU, they couldn't even sell out the game against Duke. Now think if their stated attendances was ~4,000 less than earlier home games for Indiana, Stanford, UVa, UVa and Wake how bad must the real attendance actually have been.

...and that's why the Tarheels will never be a power in football. They do no care like they do for basketball. They never have and they never will. Once the fans in '97 realized they weren't going to be ACC champs, they weren't going to play for a national title, they moved onto basketball. No big time coach is going to put up with it. I do believe that Duke game was the ultimate reason Brown bolted. He didn't want to be second fiddle.

I don't know how good Duke with Cutcliffe can become. They are certainly more consistent and better than the heels under Fedora. At the same time, Carolina would never hire a "has been" like Cutcliffe. Cutcliffe is unique in that he found a home at Duke. He doesn't care about being is K's shadow. I doubt that Carolina will ever hire someone with a personality like Cutcliffe. They want the razzle dazzle big name with the big ego....and that is never going to end well for them.

At least that's my take ;)

75Crazie
10-15-2018, 02:05 PM
...and that's why the Tarheels will never be a power in football. They do no care like they do for basketball. They never have and they never will.
That's what made it all the more delicious that the paper class scheme put in place in the 90s to keep uNC basketball prominent was ruined when the football program decided to participate.

W&LHoo
10-15-2018, 03:14 PM
I am certainly not saying that their next hire won't be better than Fedora, but I think someone good enough to turn Carolina into a power is going to bolt and want a shot with a program that will worship them. No matter how good Carolina is in football, as soon as basketball season starts football is over.

I present to you the 1997 Tarheels - They went 11-1 with a top 5 ranking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_North_Carolina_Tar_Heels_football_team

Once they lost to FSU, they couldn't even sell out the game against Duke. Now think if their stated attendances was ~4,000 less than earlier home games for Indiana, Stanford, UVa, UVa and Wake how bad must the real attendance actually have been.

...and that's why the Tarheels will never be a power in football. They do no care like they do for basketball. They never have and they never will. Once the fans in '97 realized they weren't going to be ACC champs, they weren't going to play for a national title, they moved onto basketball. No big time coach is going to put up with it. I do believe that Duke game was the ultimate reason Brown bolted. He didn't want to be second fiddle.

I don't know how good Duke with Cutcliffe can become. They are certainly more consistent and better than the heels under Fedora. At the same time, Carolina would never hire a "has been" like Cutcliffe. Cutcliffe is unique in that he found a home at Duke. He doesn't care about being is K's shadow. I doubt that Carolina will ever hire someone with a personality like Cutcliffe. They want the razzle dazzle big name with the big ego...and that is never going to end well for them.

At least that's my take ;)

But wouldn't that argument hold for Duke too? I mean, as a guest on this board I hesitate to characterize the mid-90s through early aughts Duke football program . . . but suffice to say it was significantly behind the success level of the basketball program. And yet, Duke has now managed to build a consistently good program. Not sure why the Heels couldn't do the same.

OldPhiKap
10-15-2018, 03:36 PM
But wouldn't that argument hold for Duke too? I mean, as a guest on this board I hesitate to characterize the mid-90s through early aughts Duke football program . . . but suffice to say it was significantly behind the success level of the basketball program. And yet, Duke has now managed to build a consistently good program. Not sure why the Heels couldn't do the same.

Yup. I love to dump on the Hump, but Mr. Hoo is correct.

(And good luck Saturday -- UVa sure has upgraded in the post-London era)

PackMan97
10-15-2018, 03:46 PM
But wouldn't that argument hold for Duke too? I mean, as a guest on this board I hesitate to characterize the mid-90s through early aughts Duke football program . . . but suffice to say it was significantly behind the success level of the basketball program. And yet, Duke has now managed to build a consistently good program. Not sure why the Heels couldn't do the same.

-Jason "like all of you, I am happy to see him stick around, not because he sucks but because I worry they will get someone really good who will turn the program into a powerhouse" Evans

Yes, with the right hire Carolina good develop into a consistently good program. However, I don't worry that Carolina will ever turn into a powerhouse for all the reasons I gave.

HereBeforeCoachK
10-15-2018, 03:50 PM
But wouldn't that argument hold for Duke too? I mean, as a guest on this board I hesitate to characterize the mid-90s through early aughts Duke football program . . . but suffice to say it was significantly behind the success level of the basketball program. And yet, Duke has now managed to build a consistently good program. Not sure why the Heels couldn't do the same.

Actually, given the size of the alumni base, the built in advantages all "University of" schools have, and overall budgets - Duke is beating the laws of demographics and economics every single time they have a better team than the Cheats in anything. That's what makes Coach K's rise and longevity of excellence so amazing. It's what makes Cutcliffe's progress amazing. Duke is defying gravity.

As for Carolina, there have been some excellent points made as to why they may never be a top flight football program. Another is attendance, which is not only hurt by the BB first mentality, but simply put, there aren't the roads to get a stadium full of people into and out of Kenan Stadium, and I don't think that situation is ever going to change.

BandAlum83
10-15-2018, 03:52 PM
Actually, given the size of the alumni base, the built in advantages all "University of" schools have, and overall budgets - Duke is beating the laws of demographics and economics every single time they have a better team than the Cheats in anything. That's what makes Coach K's rise and longevity of excellence so amazing. It's what makes Cutcliffe's progress amazing. Duke is defying gravity.

I wish we could beat the laws of demographics and university size to fill the stadium with blue-wearing patrons each Saturday!

HereBeforeCoachK
10-15-2018, 03:54 PM
I wish we could beat the laws of demographics and university size to fill the stadium with blue-wearing patrons each Saturday!

The laws of demographics will never be beaten for any long period of time. It's why I wish they had figured out a way to make Wally Wade an intimate 30,000 seat stadium.

sagegrouse
10-15-2018, 04:55 PM
Actually, given the size of the alumni base, the built in advantages all "University of" schools have, and overall budgets - Duke is beating the laws of demographics and economics every single time they have a better team than the Cheats in anything. That's what makes Coach K's rise and longevity of excellence so amazing. It's what makes Cutcliffe's progress amazing. Duke is defying gravity.

As for Carolina, there have been some excellent points made as to why they may never be a top flight football program. Another is attendance, which is not only hurt by the BB first mentality, but simply put, there aren't the roads to get a stadium full of people into and out of Kenan Stadium, and I don't think that situation is ever going to change.

I tend not to agree. Private schools in football are doing better than in the 1970's, when it looked like the powers were destined to be good ol' State U, Notre Dame, and Southern California. If we had foreseen a Power Five conference make-up of 64 + 1 teams, I would have been surprised to have 12 private schools in the mix -- and not necessarily at the bottom of the heap.

West to East:
Stanford
USC
TCU
Baylor
Northwestern
Notre Dame
Vanderbilt
Wake Forest
Miami
Duke
Syracuse
Boston College

Tripping William
10-15-2018, 07:20 PM
I tend not to agree. Private schools in football are doing better than in the 1970's, when it looked like the powers were destined to be good ol' State U, Notre Dame, and Southern California. If we had foreseen a Power Five conference make-up of 64 + 1 teams, I would have been surprised to have 12 private schools in the mix -- and not necessarily at the bottom of the heap.

West to East:
Stanford
USC
TCU
Baylor
Northwestern
Notre Dame
Vanderbilt
Wake Forest
Miami
Duke
Syracuse
Boston College

And that doesn’t include BYU, whose football tradition (including the 1984 national championship and the 1990 Heisman Trophy winner) is better than many of those on this list.

sagegrouse
10-15-2018, 07:33 PM
And that doesn’t include BYU, whose football tradition (including the 1984 national championship and the 1990 Heisman Trophy winner) is better than many of those on this list.
Agreed.

HereBeforeCoachK
10-15-2018, 08:42 PM
I tend not to agree. Private schools in football are doing better than in the 1970's, when it looked like the powers were destined to be good ol' State U, Notre Dame, and Southern California. If we had foreseen a Power Five conference make-up of 64 + 1 teams, I would have been surprised to have 12 private schools in the mix -- and not necessarily at the bottom of the heap.

West to East:
Stanford
USC
TCU
Baylor
Northwestern
Notre Dame
Vanderbilt
Wake Forest
Miami
Duke
Syracuse
Boston College


I don't know that you can say they're doing better today, but you are leaving out one important thing. I also mentioned the "University of" advantage, and as it happens, a handful of private schools actually have some of that University of cache...U of Southern Cal...U of Miami, both have a lot of "U of" advantage when they're winning. I also mentioned size of the University, and I believe USC is pretty big. USC is also uniquely iconic, and the exception that proves the rule.

As for being in the Power Five + 1 - the majority of those schools have long been in their respective conferences. In fact, a case can be made that the big money brought in by the massive state schools (as a percentage of the total TV packages) is helping smaller schools hang in there. There have been moves by their conferences to jettison Baylor and Vandy over the years....and big conferences did jettison Rice and some others.

sagegrouse
10-15-2018, 11:47 PM
I don't know that you can say they're doing better today, but you are leaving out one important thing. I also mentioned the "University of" advantage, and as it happens, a handful of private schools actually have some of that University of cache...U of Southern Cal...U of Miami, both have a lot of "U of" advantage when they're winning. I also mentioned size of the University, and I believe USC is pretty big. USC is also uniquely iconic, and the exception that proves the rule.

As for being in the Power Five + 1 - the majority of those schools have long been in their respective conferences. In fact, a case can be made that the big money brought in by the massive state schools (as a percentage of the total TV packages) is helping smaller schools hang in there. There have been moves by their conferences to jettison Baylor and Vandy over the years...and big conferences did jettison Rice and some others.

As you appreciate, I did a carve-out for Notre Dame, with their nationwide fan base, and SC, with 19.000 undergraduates and a total enrollment above 40,000, is a different beast entirely.

Well, the main event was when Texas and Texas A&M, in league with Oklahoma U, decided the Southwest Conference was, well, passe. That was in 1994, when the two schools plus Baylor and Texas Tech announced they were leaving to join the Big Eight and form a new conference. This was also driven by some degree of affinity between Texas and U. of Oklahoma -- they both perceived they had lots of market sway, which was probably true. That put Rice (my grad school), TCU and SMU (death camp survivor) out of business. TCU has rallied and was invited to join the Big 12 (which still has only ten members); SMU less so, and Rice is consigned to Conference USA with schools that are definitely not its peers, at least academically.

I have often thought that Duke's quasi-deemphasis of football in the mid-to-late 1960's was due to the absence of any role models of private schools, aside from ND and USC, doing well at football. IMHO (where the H took a redshirt year and never came back), if Jim Plunkett had come along a few years earlier, Duke would have seen a Stanford team winning the Rose Bowl in 1971 and 1972 as a good role model. But, by then the die was cast. We had put restrictions on football recruiting, lost Coach Murray, and recruited an Ivy League coach with a losing record to lead the legendary BLUE DEVILS.