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Pghdukie
10-02-2018, 02:02 PM
Per Dan Wetzel (Yahoo sports) and Adam Zagoria, the schools and the $$$ amounts are starting to fall.

uh_no
10-02-2018, 02:23 PM
Per Dan Wetzel (Yahoo sports) and Adam Zagoria, the schools and the $$$ amounts are starting to fall.
link?

pfrduke
10-02-2018, 02:32 PM
Zagoria is updating via twitter:

https://twitter.com/AdamZagoria/

devildeac
10-02-2018, 02:38 PM
Zagoria is updating via twitter:

https://twitter.com/AdamZagoria/

"Gatto’s defense attorney says Gatto ‘was told Arizona was going to pay or had offered to pay (Nassir Little) $150K if he went to Arizona.

‘Jim was asked to level the playing field so Nassar could go to Miami, an Adidas school.’

Little is now at UNC, a Nike/Jordan school."

Cheatin' is as cheatin' does...:mad:


https://www.bing.com/search?q=your+cheatin+heart+youtube&form=PRUSEN&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=7f6831d676a849f5aa3b273a7e4ebce0&sp=-1&pq=your+cheatin+heart+youtube&sc=4-26&qs=n&sk=&cvid=7f6831d676a849f5aa3b273a7e4ebce0

PackMan97
10-02-2018, 02:43 PM
Not particularly excited to see what is said when we get to the Gottfried section of the trial...expecting State to be the only team punished, because that's how we roll.

TruBlu
10-02-2018, 02:53 PM
Not particularly excited to see what is said when we get to the Gottfried section of the trial...expecting State to be the only team punished, because that's how we roll.

The “powers that be” have determined that unc has been punished enough by being sentenced to wear that sickening shade of blue for eternity, and no further punishment is needed.

I disagree totally, even though “that” blue is cruel. No punishment is enough for those scum.

HereBeforeCoachK
10-02-2018, 05:32 PM
Not particularly excited to see what is said when we get to the Gottfried section of the trial...expecting State to be the only team punished, because that's how we roll.

....well, it was Duke that got punished for........DAVID THOMPSON. Go figure.

devildeac
10-02-2018, 05:40 PM
...well, it was Duke that got punished for...DAVID THOMPSON. Go figure.

NCSU was punished, too.

http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/uwire/111607acb.html

"That was the situation the 1972-1973 men's basketball team found itself in as NCAA violations in the recruitment of eventual three-time ACC Player of the Year David Thompson sidelined the program from postseason play despite its unblemished record."

dudog84
10-02-2018, 06:30 PM
NCSU was punished, too.

http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/uwire/111607acb.html

"That was the situation the 1972-1973 men's basketball team found itself in as NCAA violations in the recruitment of eventual three-time ACC Player of the Year David Thompson sidelined the program from postseason play despite its unblemished record."

But they also got a National Championship out of it. Hmmm, maybe uNC was paying attention.

Edit: Apologies in advance to PackMan and other State people for lumping the dump in with you. Please take it in the way it was meant, against uNC and not you.

HereBeforeCoachK
10-02-2018, 06:57 PM
But they also got a National Championship out of it. Hmmm, maybe uNC was paying attention.

Edit: Apologies in advance to PackMan and other State people for lumping the dump in with you. Please take it in the way it was meant, against uNC and not you.

Right, and I think we all probably liked David Thompson and pulled for the Pack in 74. I know I did. My cousins were season ticket holders then for State. I got to go to many of those games. With DT, Burleson, Towe and so on....I don't think the Lakers could've won in Reynolds.

PackMan97
10-02-2018, 07:09 PM
NCSU was punished, too.

http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/uwire/111607acb.html

"That was the situation the 1972-1973 men's basketball team found itself in as NCAA violations in the recruitment of eventual three-time ACC Player of the Year David Thompson sidelined the program from postseason play despite its unblemished record."

Yes, because the assistant coach watched a pickup game (illegal tryout), bought him a coke and gave him a ride home, we lost a shot at an NCAA title.

I'm all for getting punished when something wrong is actually done, but the penalties we had for DT were ridiculous. These days it would be pay back the $0.25 for the coke and the $5 for the ride home and it would be all good.

UrinalCake
10-02-2018, 07:11 PM
I’m just hoping Dennis Smith’s game in Cameron gets expunged. Then we can all pretend Tatum’s behind-the-back dribble off his foot and Smith’s ensuing slam right down our throats never happened.

PackMan97
10-02-2018, 07:22 PM
I’m just hoping Dennis Smith’s game in Cameron gets expunged. Then we can all pretend Tatum’s behind-the-back dribble off his foot and Smith’s ensuing slam right down our throats never happened.

I'd like to expunge that entire season from my memory. So much talent, so little team.

hallcity
10-02-2018, 07:34 PM
...well, it was Duke that got punished for....DAVID THOMPSON. Go figure.

NCSU was also punished for the Thompson recruitment. There was nothing unfair about the punishment Duke got. A Duke alum bringing Thompson to Durham for a recruiting visit bought Thompson a blazer. He shouldn’t have done it.

UrinalCake
10-02-2018, 08:06 PM
Getting back to the current ongoing trial - lots of tweets about schools offering money to steer players, or being willing to do so. No confirmation on whether any money actually changed hands (though it sounds like DeSousa of Kansas did get paid by two different schools). Some vindication for MSU as one person testified that they were the only school NOT willing to pay money for Brian Bowen.

Anyone want to offer a guess as to what the NCAA will do to a school that offered money to a player? What if a player agreed to take money in principle, but didn’t actually take any? I guess I mostly just care about how this might affect college ball, and less about who among the agents and assistants goes to prison.

arnie
10-02-2018, 08:35 PM
NCSU was also punished for the Thompson recruitment. There was nothing unfair about the punishment Duke got. A Duke alum bringing Thompson to Durham for a recruiting visit bought Thompson a blazer. He shouldn’t have done it.

Yes a far more serious infraction than 🐏 decades of fake courses, grade changes and refusal to allow poorly prepared athletes an education.

Newton_14
10-02-2018, 10:06 PM
"Gatto’s defense attorney says Gatto ‘was told Arizona was going to pay or had offered to pay (Nassir Little) $150K if he went to Arizona.

‘Jim was asked to level the playing field so Nassar could go to Miami, an Adidas school.’

Little is now at UNC, a Nike/Jordan school."

Cheatin' is as cheatin' does...:mad:


https://www.bing.com/search?q=your+cheatin+heart+youtube&form=PRUSEN&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=7f6831d676a849f5aa3b273a7e4ebce0&sp=-1&pq=your+cheatin+heart+youtube&sc=4-26&qs=n&sk=&cvid=7f6831d676a849f5aa3b273a7e4ebce0

First the title of this thread was so vague I had no idea what the topic was. I thought maybe new rules were being experimented with in early games or something.

Second, tell me again why in the heck Little is eligible? If the Bowen? kid that went to Pitino last season wasn't allowed to play, why in the heck is Little allowed to play?

Third, is there no level uncCheat will not stoop to? Is it their goal to constantly remind the world on a quarterly basis that they cheat, are proud of the cheating, are above any rules or punishment, 3 = 4 in chapa hell?

Fourth, get off my lawn :cool:

devildeac
10-02-2018, 10:08 PM
Yes, because the assistant coach watched a pickup game (illegal tryout), bought him a coke and gave him a ride home, we lost a shot at an NCAA title.

I'm all for getting punished when something wrong is actually done, but the penalties we had for DT were ridiculous. These days it would be pay back the $0.25 for the coke and the $5 for the ride home and it would be all good.

I think a Duke alum bought him a coat, pants and a tie for his visit/interview at Duke. Olympic Fan has told the story before but I can't recall all the details. I'd bet Jim Sumner would remember...

:D

Edit: Or, hallcity would recall...

devildeac
10-02-2018, 10:12 PM
First the title of this thread was so vague I had no idea what the topic was. I thought maybe new rules were being experimented with in early games or something.

Second, tell me again why in the heck Little is eligible? If the Bowen? kid that went to Pitino last season wasn't allowed to play, why in the heck is Little allowed to play?

Third, is there no level uncCheat will not stoop to? Is it their goal to constantly remind the world on a quarterly basis that they cheat, are proud of the cheating, are above any rules or punishment, 3 = 4 in chapa hell?

Fourth, get off my lawn :cool:


You answered your own question as I've bolded above. Bastards.

DevilFalcon
10-02-2018, 10:27 PM
I read that Zion W. was one of the names that might come up in the trial. I can't find it now but I believe it was one of those ESPN or bleacher report updates.
Anyone know anything about this? That made me uncomfortable a bit.

Dr. Rosenrosen
10-02-2018, 10:30 PM
I read that Zion W. was one of the names that might come up in the trial. I can't find it now but I believe it was one of those ESPN or bleacher report updates.
Anyone know anything about this? That made me uncomfortable a bit.
I was about to post the same thing. It was in the Zagoria piece from day one of the trial... not cool.

mr. synellinden
10-03-2018, 01:42 AM
Linky linky.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.newsobserver.com/sports/article219316745.html

DevilFalcon
10-03-2018, 08:34 AM
I'm sure the staff is on top of it, but I don't like being linked to this at all in any way.

HereBeforeCoachK
10-03-2018, 08:39 AM
I'm sure the staff is on top of it, but I don't like being linked to this at all in any way.

What I'm hoping is that there were some offers bandied about from other schools re Zion....and that's all.

UrinalCake
10-03-2018, 09:47 AM
Zion was included in the list of names that could come up during the trial (we are still in the pretrial, jury selection phase). It doesn’t necessarily mean anything. With regards to Little, just because a school offered him money doesn’t mean he took it. Still a lot of details to be uncovered.

DBFAN
10-03-2018, 09:47 AM
I would guess that since the whole thing Blew up before Zion committed to Duke, that it was most likely another school. Would be a bit incriminating to keep pursuing him knowing that FBI was aware of your violations

DBFAN
10-03-2018, 09:48 AM
I have a feeling that AZ is gonna come up multiple times during this trial. Just a hunch

HereBeforeCoachK
10-03-2018, 10:04 AM
I would guess that since the whole thing Blew up before Zion committed to Duke, that it was most likely another school. Would be a bit incriminating to keep pursuing him knowing that FBI was aware of your violations

Yeah, this shouldn't be an issue at all unless A: Duke offered Z money and/or B: Zion took money from another school. I doubt B and seriously seriously doubt A. I would imagine almost all of the top top recruits names will "come up" in this - and in many cases will mean nothing.

Nugget
10-03-2018, 01:48 PM
Anyone want to offer a guess as to what the NCAA will do to a school that offered money to a player? What if a player agreed to take money in principle, but didn’t actually take any? I guess I mostly just care about how this might affect college ball, and less about who among the agents and assistants goes to prison.

My guess is that it's not an NCAA violation "if a player agreed to take money in principle, but didn't actually take any." So, I would imagine there would be no punishment at all in that situation.

Also, unless there is evidence that the school itself facilitated (or at least was complicit in) the payment, I don't think there is any NCAA violation merely because the shoe company paid the player unless that player played in games and was ineligible and even then there might be no punishment -- e.g., let's say Silvio De Souza did get $20k from Adidas to flip from Maryland to Kansas; unless Kansas knew about it, I don't see how that's any different than Corey Maggette's pre-college payments from a prospective agent that resulted in no sanctions to Duke. Maybe KU would have to retroactively forfeit the games De Souza played while ineligible. But, absent evidence the school was involved in the violation somehow, I can't see much in the way of punishment of the schools.

devildeac
10-03-2018, 01:53 PM
My guess is that it's not an NCAA violation "if a player agreed to take money in principle, but didn't actually take any." So, I would imagine there would be no punishment at all in that situation.

Also, unless there is evidence that the school itself facilitated (or at least was complicit in) the payment, I don't think there is any NCAA violation merely because the shoe company paid the player unless that player played in games and was ineligible and even then there might be no punishment -- e.g., let's say Silvio De Souza did get $20k from Adidas to flip from Maryland to Kansas; unless Kansas knew about it, I don't see how that's any different than Corey Maggette's pre-college payments from a prospective agent that resulted in no sanctions to Duke. Maybe KU would have to retroactively forfeit the games De Souza played while ineligible. But, absent evidence the school was involved in the violation somehow, I can't see much in the way of punishment of the schools.


Which would be consistent with "if a player agreed to go to class and do the work in principle, but didn't actually attend the class/es and/or do any work," there would be (almost) no punishment at all in that situation.

Not that anything like that has ever happened before.

JayZee
10-03-2018, 03:35 PM
When I saw DePaul listed, I got more than a little bummed. It just demonstrates that the corruption is so deep, so pervasive. Maybe Coach K/Duke and Izzo/MSU stay mostly out of the fray, but they gotta know about all the dirt and are therefore at least somewhat complicit.

Sigh.

I already saw something like this go down in my other favorite sport, cycling, where the corruption is also just so deep. Well beyond the PEDs and Lance. It's still a beautiful sport and the cyclists are amazing and tough and all that, but it's just not as fun to watch anymore.

I already quit watching football with CTE and just the awful way that the league treats the players.

Gymnastics. Ugh. Horrifying.

The Olympics in general - still kind of fun, but so so corrupt.

But I still had hoops, college hoops in particular. Sure, I knew there was slime. But this is just unreal.

hallcity
10-03-2018, 04:06 PM
My guess is that it's not an NCAA violation "if a player agreed to take money in principle, but didn't actually take any." So, I would imagine there would be no punishment at all in that situation.

Also, unless there is evidence that the school itself facilitated (or at least was complicit in) the payment, I don't think there is any NCAA violation merely because the shoe company paid the player unless that player played in games and was ineligible and even then there might be no punishment -- e.g., let's say Silvio De Souza did get $20k from Adidas to flip from Maryland to Kansas; unless Kansas knew about it, I don't see how that's any different than Corey Maggette's pre-college payments from a prospective agent that resulted in no sanctions to Duke. Maybe KU would have to retroactively forfeit the games De Souza played while ineligible. But, absent evidence the school was involved in the violation somehow, I can't see much in the way of punishment of the schools.

Here's what the NCAA rules say (https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/bylawView?id=8775):

An institution's staff member or any representative of its athletics interests shall not be involved, directly or indirectly, in making arrangements for or giving or offering to give any financial aid or other benefits to a prospective student-athlete or his or her family members or friends, other than expressly permitted by NCAA regulations.

Note that it says "giving OR offering."

And here's what the NCAA says about schools and apparel companies (https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/bylawView?id=3421#result):

An institution's "responsibility" for the conduct of its intercollegiate athletics program shall include responsibility for the acts of an independent agency, corporate entity (e.g., apparel or equipment manufacturer) or other organization when a member of the institution's executive or athletics administration, or an athletics department staff member, has knowledge that such agency, corporate entity or other organization is promoting the institution's intercollegiate athletics program.

You could argue that yeah, we knew they were promoting this school but we didn't know they were promoting this school in THAT way.

swiseman
10-03-2018, 04:33 PM
I read that Zion W. was one of the names that might come up in the trial. I can't find it now but I believe it was one of those ESPN or bleacher report updates.
Anyone know anything about this? That made me uncomfortable a bit.

Yes Zion Williamson is on a list of people who could be mentioned during the trial. That list was provided to the jurors on Monday. It's a long list and, according to the reporters who are in the courtroom, just being on the list is no assurance of wrongdoing. This is the first time Zion's name has come up publicly in the investigation, though. I'm keeping tabs on it. We currently have no context with regard to his involvement, unlike, you know, Brian Bowen or Dennis Smith.

duke79
10-03-2018, 04:51 PM
When I saw DePaul listed, I got more than a little bummed. It just demonstrates that the corruption is so deep, so pervasive. Maybe Coach K/Duke and Izzo/MSU stay mostly out of the fray, but they gotta know about all the dirt and are therefore at least somewhat complicit.

Sigh.

I already saw something like this go down in my other favorite sport, cycling, where the corruption is also just so deep. Well beyond the PEDs and Lance. It's still a beautiful sport and the cyclists are amazing and tough and all that, but it's just not as fun to watch anymore.

I already quit watching football with CTE and just the awful way that the league treats the players.

Gymnastics. Ugh. Horrifying.

The Olympics in general - still kind of fun, but so so corrupt.

But I still had hoops, college hoops in particular. Sure, I knew there was slime. But this is just unreal.

Yea, I know how you feel here. No doubt that the times have changed in the world of professional, amateur and college sports (and elsewhere. I can remember when working on Wall Street was considered an honorable job!). Also, no doubt there are many factors in play here but the grasping for the almighty "buck" seems to be at the root of many of the problems. Everybody wants the money - schools, players, coaches, companies, etc. and they'll cheat in every way imaginable to get it. I'm not sure how you ever end it; once the cat is out of the bag, it will never get back in.

Hard to think of many "pure" high-level sports any more. No major cheating or drug issues, AFIK, in professional or amateur golf (but I'm sure it's coming). Maybe Div. 3 college sports or high school sports?

PackMan97
10-03-2018, 04:58 PM
Hard to think of many "pure" high-level sports any more. No major cheating or drug issues, AFIK, in professional or amateur golf (but I'm sure it's coming). Maybe Div. 3 college sports or high school sports.

Certainly not high school sports in my experience. I attended Swansboro High School for a season and they have won 7 State Soccer titles. I'd be willing to state under oath that there were kids in that school that received passing grades in some classes just because they were really really good at soccer. There is a reason many athletes get to college being unable to read or do college level work and it's not because they earned their high school diploma in the classroom.

You can't have scandals like UNC faux classes without kids graduating unprepared from high school. Swansboro was a big part of that. It didn't surprise me at all when one of Swansboro's athletes ended up at NC State on a women's basketball scholarship and found herself missing a year due to an academic suspension. Didn't surprise me one bit. Of course, Swansboro's school colors are an awful shade of baby blue. Go figure.

thedukelamere
10-05-2018, 11:43 AM
Maybe Div. 3 college sports or high school sports?

Bowen Sr. told the jury that he received $2,000 per month from Shane Heirman for Bowen II to attend La Lumiere School in LaPorte, Indiana. Heirman was the head coach of La Lumiere at the time, and is now an assistant coach at DePaul.

If you're going to follow high school sports, avoid the schools that have an annual tuition of $17k (or $48k for boarding students). With that much money being thrown around, some of it is bound to be used improperly.

I wonder if Jaren Jackson Jr. saw anything similar during his time in beautiful LaPorte, Indiana...

sagegrouse
10-05-2018, 06:54 PM
Dad bribes the coach.

The father of a HS senior bribed head coach Jerome Allen $18,000 to push the player as a "listed recruit," in order to get admitted to the University of Pennsylvania under the easier recruiting standards for recruited athletes. Allen just pleaded guilty (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24904818/jerome-allen-boston-celtics-assistant-pleads-guilty-accepting-bribe) in federal court and will repay the money and pay a $200,000 fine. He is an assistant with the Celtics.

HereBeforeCoachK
10-06-2018, 07:42 AM
Dad bribes the coach.

The father of a HS senior bribed head coach Jerome Allen $18,000 to push the player as a "listed recruit," in order to get admitted to the University of Pennsylvania under the easier recruiting standards for recruited athletes. Allen just pleaded guilty (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24904818/jerome-allen-boston-celtics-assistant-pleads-guilty-accepting-bribe) in federal court and will repay the money and pay a $200,000 fine. He is an assistant with the Celtics.

This was more academic fraud than athletic corruption......and from my observation, sometimes the academic corruption is worse than the athletic corruption in college.

devildeac
10-06-2018, 07:52 AM
This was more academic fraud than athletic corruption...and from my observation, sometimes the academic corruption is worse than the athletic corruption in college.

But, at some alleged institutions of higher learning, they stroll along merrily hand-in-hand.

sagegrouse
10-06-2018, 08:36 AM
This was more academic fraud than athletic corruption...and from my observation, sometimes the academic corruption is worse than the athletic corruption in college.

I agree -- the shoe is on the other foot, which makes for an interesting "man-bites-dog" story. It is a federal crime, apparently, under the same obscure laws under which the Adidas cases are being pursued, as SB Nation wrote last February:


What are the actual crimes alleged?

Soliciting of bribes is a common one. The United States doesn’t have a blanket law making all bribery illegal. But the positions of the people involved in these cases made it easy for the government to go after them.

The feds are charging four former assistant coaches at Division I schools as “agents of federally funded organizations.” They can do that because all of their former schools do more than $10,000 a year in business with the federal government, whether through grants, loans, contracts, or other collaborations. These schools’ college basketball programs have just about nothing to do with the federal government, but the Justice Department is using a broader anti-corruption law to target those coaches.

Jerome Allen was a heckuva player at UPenn in the 1990's. My daughter was the cheerleader for the Quakers for two seasons when they were undefeated in the Ivy League, under the leadership of Allen and Matt Maloney. Allen, despite the shenanigans, was a bust as Quakers coach, going 38-46 in the Ivy League for a team that has usually been very competitive there.

MarkD83
10-06-2018, 09:51 AM
When I saw DePaul listed, I got more than a little bummed. It just demonstrates that the corruption is so deep, so pervasive. Maybe Coach K/Duke and Izzo/MSU stay mostly out of the fray, but they gotta know about all the dirt and are therefore at least somewhat complicit.

Sigh.

I already saw something like this go down in my other favorite sport, cycling, where the corruption is also just so deep. Well beyond the PEDs and Lance. It's still a beautiful sport and the cyclists are amazing and tough and all that, but it's just not as fun to watch anymore.

I already quit watching football with CTE and just the awful way that the league treats the players.

Gymnastics. Ugh. Horrifying.

The Olympics in general - still kind of fun, but so so corrupt.

But I still had hoops, college hoops in particular. Sure, I knew there was slime. But this is just unreal.

I have gone down this path about being bummed out about sports and all of the issues with the different sports. This is all about money and all of the leaders of these sports focus only on the money.

My reaction is that sports is now in the same category as all of the entertainment dollars I spend. So do I go to a basketball game and pay to watch it live or do I go to a good movie, or play golf, or going hiking or put the money away for vacation. I am a fan of many professional and college sports but when it comes to spending my money I compare the dollars spent to other activities. To give you a recent example, I did not sign up for the free ESPN+ subscription to watch the Duke games this summer. It was free but if I forgot to cancel it I would have given ESPN money, so I saved the money for a round of golf.

plimnko
10-06-2018, 10:43 AM
This was more academic fraud than athletic corruption...and from my observation, sometimes the academic corruption is worse than the athletic corruption in college.

as we know, academic fraud has been condoned by the uncaa.

HereBeforeCoachK
10-06-2018, 12:39 PM
as we know, academic fraud has been condoned by the uncaa.

Yes, well that was a mixture of the two corruptions.......

UrinalCake
10-06-2018, 12:49 PM
Kinda feels like this whole trial is just about Brian Bowen.

PackMan97
10-10-2018, 08:20 AM
NC State Compliance Director gets on the stand to answer questions about Dennis Smith Jr.

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article219762275.html

It's an interesting read to see what steps NC State tried to take to protect itself. AD Yow being upset that the helicopter recruiting trip to Smith was not pre-authorized. Questions about Erik Leak continuing to sniff around the program. Sitting down with Gottfried and staff making sure they understand the rules.

Bob Green
10-10-2018, 03:57 PM
The money quote:


The government alleges that former Adidas executive James Gatto gave $40,000 to an unnamed N.C. State assistant basketball coach who then passed it on to Dennis Smith Sr. in the fall of 2015.

PackMan97
10-10-2018, 04:07 PM
Thankfully, all of NC State's assistant coaches had names so that quote is factually incorrect. :cool:

Can I please the UNC defense on this one?

UrinalCake
10-10-2018, 06:11 PM
Can I please the UNC defense on this one?

Did Gatto also give money to a non-athlete? If so then you’re all good.

plimnko
10-10-2018, 06:31 PM
Did Gatto also give money to a non-athlete? If so then you’re all good.


if ALL the students could have taken the money and not just dennis smith, by invoking the uncheats defense no one did anything wrong. case closed

CameronBlue
10-10-2018, 06:41 PM
Did Gatto also give money to a non-athlete? If so then you’re all good.

Yeah, UNC must've given our Coastal Division Championship rings to the entire student body, cause I heard nothing from the NCAA concerning UNC giving out rings for a championship for which the football team wasn't eligible. Certainly the NCAA didn't overlook the matter lest anyone accuse them of being money-grubbing hypocrites.

Pghdukie
10-10-2018, 09:17 PM
Black Opps seems to be the code name of Pay for Play !
Louisville in a world of trouble. Will Arizona be the next batter up !

UrinalCake
10-10-2018, 09:53 PM
Testimony today that Ayton’s family was paid. The ESPN reporter who broke the story last March may be vindicated Pretty amazing the ups and downs that AZ has gone through.

devildeac
10-10-2018, 10:32 PM
Testimony today that Ayton’s family was paid. The ESPN reporter who broke the story last March may be vindicated Pretty amazing the ups and downs that AZ has gone through.

Little did we know...

JasonEvans
10-11-2018, 07:39 AM
Look out Kansas... Yahoo's article on the trial (https://sports.yahoo.com/black-ops-mission-hoops-bag-man-details-offered-help-college-basketball-programs-like-kansas-230932446.html) focuses largely on KU's ties to the Adidas bag man, TJ Gassnola.


Gassnola typed out a litany of meetings and work he performed over a 90-day stretch in 2014 and sent it to his bosses.

It didn’t mention the payments to college players and their families that he copped to on the witness stand, including Billy Preston (Kansas), Silvio De Sousa (Kansas), Brian Bowen II (Louisville), Dennis Smith Jr. (North Carolina State) or Deandre Ayton (Arizona).

It did note various meetings with coaches at Adidas schools around the country – N.C. State, Indiana, UCLA, Miami and so on. In particular was a trip in 2014 to Lawrence, Kansas, to attend the Kansas Jayhawks’ annual first practice called “Late Night in the Phog.”

“Met with Coach [Bill] Self and his staff,” Gassnola’s note read. ” … talked recruiting targets and the upcoming season. Assured them we are here to help.”

Exactly what Gassnola meant by “help” and what Self and his staff said in response to such an assurance should be a major focus of Thursday’s testimony.

UrinalCake
10-11-2018, 09:08 AM
Little did we know...

A potential downside to Arizona getting brought up is that by all accounts, Josh Green’s second choice of schools was UNC. So if there is fallout from the NCAA and Green re-opens his recruitment, he may fall into the CHeats’ lap in the same way that Little did.

BD80
10-11-2018, 09:16 AM
... KU's ties to the Adidas bag man, TJ Gassnola.

Does that make him a Gass bag?

Neals384
10-11-2018, 09:42 AM
When I saw DePaul listed, I got more than a little bummed. It just demonstrates that the corruption is so deep, so pervasive. Maybe Coach K/Duke and Izzo/MSU stay mostly out of the fray, but they gotta know about all the dirt and are therefore at least somewhat complicit.

Sigh.

I already saw something like this go down in my other favorite sport, cycling, where the corruption is also just so deep. Well beyond the PEDs and Lance. It's still a beautiful sport and the cyclists are amazing and tough and all that, but it's just not as fun to watch anymore.

I already quit watching football with CTE and just the awful way that the league treats the players.

Gymnastics. Ugh. Horrifying.

The Olympics in general - still kind of fun, but so so corrupt.

But I still had hoops, college hoops in particular. Sure, I knew there was slime. But this is just unreal.

We’ll always have curling

howardlander
10-11-2018, 10:02 AM
We’ll always have curling

Sure ... https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/globe-editorial-with-curling-scandal-russian-doping-hits-rock-bottom/article38039935/

UrinalCake
10-11-2018, 10:31 AM
Cross off sumo wrestling from your list of clean sports. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match-fixing_in_professional_sumo

JasonEvans
10-11-2018, 10:46 AM
This reminds me of the scene in Rain Man where the only airline they can fly is Quantus.

https://youtu.be/KeYf-rhMQIQ?t=56

Go to the 1:00 mark to see the scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeYf-rhMQIQ

JayZee
10-11-2018, 11:06 AM
Can't/won't watch Dustin Hoffman anymore after #metoo revelations about him.



This reminds me of the scene in Rain Man where the only airline they can fly is Quantus.

https://youtu.be/KeYf-rhMQIQ?t=56

Go to the 1:00 mark to see the scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeYf-rhMQIQ

hallcity
10-12-2018, 02:10 PM
What worries me is that if Adidas and Under Armour were throwing money at recruits, how was Nike responding? Surely, they heard rumors about what their competitors were up to. Probably, they got solicitations directly or indirectly from players asking them to outbid Adidas. How did a player get an offer of $100,000 unless there was some competing offer? I've always thought of Nike as a somewhat ruthless company. Have they grown so respectable that they would be above this sort of thing? Still, as far as I know, there's been no mention of Nike in the trial so far. I hope there isn't a second trial involving Nike.

Bluedog
10-12-2018, 02:18 PM
The thing that's a bit funny to me is that with all this shadiness, the players who received money themselves (or their families) seem to never get the brunt of the criticism. Instead, it's the school that they go to even if the school had no knowledge of it (which sometimes is true, sometimes is not). The reason this is a trial is because they are saying the "schools are the victim" and they were fradulently misled, but it's the school that the individual chooses to go to that is ultimately going to be punished -- not the athlete himself (except for maybe vacating certain statistics, but who cares at that point). (I realize many on this board would argue the school is not the victim in all this -- but even Coach K has said it's hard for them to know everything goes on within athletes' high school days as they can't possibly follow every action of each recruit). It's just an odd dynamic as usually it's the perpetrator of the transgressiong/crime that has the most to lose by being caught...(And I'd argue the Adidas front man and the recruit/family receiving money are equally complicit). Maybe this is an unpopular sentiment, but it seems at odds with how we normally view illegal acts.

duke79
10-12-2018, 03:27 PM
What worries me is that if Adidas and Under Armour were throwing money at recruits, how was Nike responding? Surely, they heard rumors about what their competitors were up to. Probably, they got solicitations directly or indirectly from players asking them to outbid Adidas. How did a player get an offer of $100,000 unless there was some competing offer? I've always thought of Nike as a somewhat ruthless company. Have they grown so respectable that they would be above this sort of thing? Still, as far as I know, there's been no mention of Nike in the trial so far. I hope there isn't a second trial involving Nike.

Yea, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there were a lot more going on than what has come out already!

PackMan97
10-12-2018, 03:36 PM
The thing that's a bit funny to me is that with all this shadiness, the players who received money themselves (or their families) seem to never get the brunt of the criticism. ...snip... Maybe this is an unpopular sentiment, but it seems at odds with how we normally view illegal acts.

I think the answer is simple. Even the blind are able to see that these kids have a skill that has a very significant market value. Just because the NCAA does not allow them to be paid does not make them worthless. Most of these kids come from poverty and are thrown into a business than generates hundreds of millions in revenue at the college level and hope to make the NBA where teams are worth billions. The money being thrown at these kids amounts to spare change.

Bob Green
10-12-2018, 03:46 PM
Thankfully, all of NC State's assistant coaches had names so that quote is factually incorrect. :cool:

Yes, and the coach in question is named Orlando Early:

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article219849390.html


Former Adidas consultant testifies he gave $40,000 to former NC State coach Orlando Early

PackMan97
10-12-2018, 03:48 PM
Yes, and the coach in question is named Orlando Early:

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article219849390.html

I'm hopeful that Early also gave a regular student $40k and the NCAA will agree that's a typo.

arnie
10-12-2018, 04:28 PM
I'm hopeful that Early also gave a regular student $40k and the NCAA will agree that's a typo.

It'll be very interesting in the Triangle area if State gets significant penalties. The Heels fans will laugh their aXXes off and pretend State deserves a stiffer punishment.

TruBlu
10-12-2018, 05:00 PM
It'll be very interesting in the Triangle area if State gets significant penalties. The Heels fans will laugh their aXXes off and pretend State deserves a stiffer punishment.

If the heel fans laugh their aXXes off, there won’t be any part of the heel fans left.

BD80
10-12-2018, 05:02 PM
It'll be very interesting in the Triangle area if State gets significant penalties. The Heels fans will laugh their aXXes off and pretend State deserves a stiffer punishment.


If the heel fans laugh their aXXes off, there won’t be any part of the heel fans left.

Without their axxes, there will be no ceiling, nor roof, for their heads!

Neals384
10-12-2018, 09:16 PM
Sure ... https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/globe-editorial-with-curling-scandal-russian-doping-hits-rock-bottom/article38039935/

I think I hear the sound of my rock being knocked out of the house.

UrinalCake
10-12-2018, 10:06 PM
The thing that's a bit funny to me is that with all this shadiness, the players who received money themselves (or their families) seem to never get the brunt of the criticism. Instead, it's the school that they go to even if the school had no knowledge of it (which sometimes is true, sometimes is not). The reason this is a trial is because they are saying the "schools are the victim" and they were fradulently misled, but it's the school that the individual chooses to go to that is ultimately going to be punished -- not the athlete himself (except for maybe vacating certain statistics, but who cares at that point).

The whole basis of this trial is that the FBI claims the Adidas people defrauded the universities by ruining the eligibility of their players. So far we've only heard testimonies from the prosecution's witnesses. These are people who are trying to make the case that the universities were in the dark, that they had no clue the players were receiving money. Thus one witness who claimed that Pitino was intentionally never told of the payments to Bowen, and another witness (Disousa's mother I believe) who claims that she told one of the Adidas agents that if the NCAA came sniffing around she would tell them she was having an affair with him, even though in reality the agent was engaged to another woman (yet the agent went along with the planned ruse).

I think this case will get more interesting once the defense takes the stand. Their goal is to prove that the universities were NOT defrauded, so they're going to be presenting evidence that the schools knew exactly what was going on. That's when the real dirt will come out. It's just that the parts of this trial that are most interesting to us as fans (which players were involved, what they got, what the schools/coaches knew, and who might become ineligible or have games vacated) aren't necessarily the parts that are most relevant to the case.

As far as why the players don't receive any criticism in the public eye, I think that's because the general public feels that all of these players deserve to be paid, and the fact that they took money that is only a portion of what they're worth doesn't feel like a crime.

PackMan97
10-24-2018, 03:27 PM
All three defendants guilty on all 7 counts.

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article220537920.html


Three defendants were found guilty on all seven counts of wire fraud and conspiracy to commit wire fraud in the college basketball corruption trial on Wednesday.

Adidas executive Jim Gatto, former Adidas consultant Merl Code and would-be agent Christian Dawkins were guilty of wire fraud, and conspiracy to commit wire fraud.

DangerDevil
10-24-2018, 03:32 PM
All three defendants guilty on all 7 counts.

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article220537920.html

So how does the NCAA address the guilty verdict?

Interesting comments from Self:

“Gatto, the sneaker company's director of global sports marketing for basketball, also was accused of conspiring with former Adidas consultant T.J. Gassnola to pay $90,000 to former Kansas prospect Billy Preston's mother and $20,000 to current Jayhawks player Silvio De Sousa's guardian.

Jayhawks coach Bill Self on Wednesday said De Sousa, a sophomore forward, would be withheld from competing until "we can evaluate and understand the new information" presented during the trial -- "some of which we knew, some of which we didn't" -- during an eligibility review.”

CameronBornAndBred
11-08-2018, 12:08 AM
Ramifications coming.


Federal authorities have given NCAA officials their approval to move ahead with an investigation of alleged rules violations that came to light during the first of three federal criminal trials involving pay-for-play schemes and other corruption in college basketball, ESPN has confirmed.
...
ESPN reported in February that as many as three dozen Division I programs, including many of the sport's traditional powers, might be facing NCAA sanctions once the federal government releases information that it acquired during its clandestine, three-year investigation.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25210341/ncaa-gets-approval-investigate-schools-college-basketball-corruption-case

CameronBornAndBred
11-19-2018, 01:03 PM
This will be interesting. Brian Bowen II is suing Adidas for
bribery, fraud and money laundering at the expense of Bowen's eligibility and athletic development.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25320378/brian-bowen-ii-files-federal-racketeering-lawsuit-adidas

Nugget
01-09-2019, 03:16 PM
Interesting development with former Arizona Asst. Coach Book Richardson (who, according to this Arizona Star report, https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ncaab/ua/2017/09/27/emanuel-book-richardson-arizona-wildcats-sean-miller-fbi/708611001/, was Sean Miller's key recruiter for a decade) pleading guilty to bribery charges.

I wonder how this plays for Miller. In a perverse way, I think the guilty plea might help him, because it will spare him the bad publicity of a public trial -- particularly if there was anything close to a wiretapped phone call between Miller and Christian Dawkins along the lines alleged in Mark Schlabach's controversial report (my own guess is that ESPN wouldn't have published the story if there was not such a call, but that Schlabach or the source he was relying on, since he does not appear to have heard the tape himself, got it wrong on which player was involved, and that it was Bowen not Ayton), as I don't think Miller could survive in his job if it became public evidence that he had a phone call about paying for a recruit, even if no money ever actually changed hands.

Without a trial, the actual truth of what is or is not on the rumored tape may remain unknown, and the NCAA may or may not be able to obtain the evidence for itself -- while the NCAA has indicated it may rely on testimony and documents that became public via the Dawkins/Gatto/Code trial for its own sanctions decisions, the pleas by Richardson (and, USC's Tony Bland, for that matter) I don't see how it could rely on the Schlabach story alone without the actual tape or transcript, given Miller's denial that such a call occurred.

On the other hand, if Richardson's (and former USC Asst. Tony Bland's for that matter) pleas included some component of cooperation against their former bosses, this could be bad development for Miller.

My strong supposition is that it is the former -- that the Feds have gotten their splash and are moving on, and that the Bland/Richardson pleas were not tied to cooperation in a manner that would lead to them rolling up on Miller/Enfield, that they will keep their mouths' shut and Miller/Enfield will survive.

But, I would really like to know the actual truth about the (alleged) phone call referenced in Schlabach's original, never retracted, story.