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RPS
09-17-2018, 04:12 PM
SI published its annual top 100 NBA players (https://www.si.com/nba/2018/09/10/top-100-nba-players-2019-lebron-james-stephen-curry-dirk-nowitzki) list. Four Blue Devils made then cut: Brandon Ingram at 75; J.J. Redick at 62; and Jayson Tatum at 39; and Kyrie Irving at 17.

Top 100 NBA Players of 2019 (https://www.si.com/nba/2018/09/10/top-100-nba-players-2019-lebron-james-stephen-curry-dirk-nowitzki)

phaedrus
09-17-2018, 04:36 PM
Who would have thought back in 2015 or 2016 that as we head into the 2018-19 season, J.J. Redick would still be ranked ahead of Parker, Okafor, Winslow and Ingram?

RPS
09-17-2018, 06:33 PM
Who would have thought back in 2015 or 2016 that as we head into the 2018-19 season, J.J. Redick would still be ranked ahead of Parker, Okafor, Winslow and Ingram?
Indeed. Moreover, in the cases of Parker, Okafor and Winslow, they are not merely ranked below J.J. (and rightly), they don't even make the list.

MartyClark
09-17-2018, 08:15 PM
Indeed. Moreover, in the cases of Parker, Okafor and Winslow, they are not merely ranked below J.J. (and rightly), they don't even make the list.

Yeah, no disrespect to Parker, Okafor or Winslow. Love those guys but J.J. rocks. He never backed down from a challenge at Duke. He's made a very good N.B.A. career for himself. This guy works hard on his game.

flyingdutchdevil
09-18-2018, 08:29 AM
Indeed. Moreover, in the cases of Parker, Okafor and Winslow, they are not merely ranked below J.J. (and rightly), they don't even make the list.

Of those 3, Winslow has a great shot at cracking the top 100. Parker can if his offense takes a level up and he gives minimal effort on D (versus no D). Okafor has no chance.

JasonEvans
09-18-2018, 09:57 AM
Of those 3, Winslow has a great shot at cracking the top 100.

Justise has a big year coming up as he will be a RFA after this season. His D is top shelf and he has shown he can play multiple positions, even serving as a major distributor for the Heat at times. But, he needs to show that last season's 38% 3FG shooting wasn't just a flash in the pan (he had been well under 30% in his 2 previous seasons). His poor shooting and lack of scoring is the thing holding him back from being a really good NBA player. I doubt he will ever be a consisten 15ppg scorer, but if he can get closer to 11-13 ppg, combined with his D and other intangibles, he can be a really important player for any franchise.

-Jason "if Justise only averages like 7 ppg again and if his long-range shooting regresses, he likely won't find all that much of a market in free agency" Evans

weezie
09-18-2018, 10:14 AM
...J.J. rocks. He never backed down from a challenge at Duke...

Nor in the NBA or life. You are spot on Marty. He's managed to convince even Bill Simmons!

jipops
09-18-2018, 10:22 AM
JJ's continued NBA stature is a testament to how incredibly hard he has worked on his game over the years while also staying in top physical shape. I've always argued that a player's success has almost everything to do with the individual talent, physical makeup, and work ethic of the player and far FAR less on who coached them or what program they came from.

JJ has made the absolute best of his abilities with a great attention to detail in his game while staying healthy throughout his career. And he's had a lot of talent to work with as well.

JasonEvans
09-18-2018, 10:25 AM
JJ will pass $90 mil in career earnings this season. His hard work has been richly rewarded.

sagegrouse
09-18-2018, 11:54 AM
JJ will pass $90 mil in career earnings this season. His hard work has been richly rewarded.

J.J. at #62 is amazing. There are 32 teams, and an average of 1.9 players per team ranks higher than #62.

Billy Dat
09-18-2018, 12:09 PM
JJ's continued NBA stature is a testament to how incredibly hard he has worked on his game over the years while also staying in top physical shape. I've always argued that a player's success has almost everything to do with the individual talent, physical makeup, and work ethic of the player and far FAR less on who coached them or what program they came from.

JJ has made the absolute best of his abilities with a great attention to detail in his game while staying healthy throughout his career. And he's had a lot of talent to work with as well.

I agree with this, and will add the importance of the player recognizing their best role on the team and working to maximize that role. A lot of guys never accept that they aren't meant to be "the man". It reminds me of the Popovich saying that he wants players who "have gotten over themselves".

JasonEvans
09-18-2018, 12:10 PM
It reminds me of the Popovich saying that he wants players who "have gotten over themselves".

Did he say that before or after the Leonard trade?

dukelifer
09-18-2018, 12:14 PM
J.J. at #62 is amazing. There are 32 teams, and an average of 1.9 players per team ranks higher than #62.

In some ways amazing and in some ways not. He was recognized as the best shooter coming out of college- still holds some ACC records, was a 2 time first team All american, 2x ACC player of the year and national player of the year. Yes he played in an era when the best players went pro early but JJ is a special talent. It just took a little time to get rolling in the NBA.

Billy Dat
09-18-2018, 12:20 PM
Did he say that before or after the Leonard trade?

Good call...he has long said that, and I think he probably thought Kawhi was one of those guys. I'm not sure he counted on Uncle Dennis.

arnie
09-18-2018, 12:23 PM
In some ways amazing and in some ways not. He was recognized as the best shooter coming out of college- still holds some ACC records, was a 2 time first team All american, 2x ACC player of the year and national player of the year. Yes he played in an era when the best players went pro early but JJ is a special talent. It just took a little time to get rolling in the NBA.

Hansbrough had similar accolades upon leaving the dump. I guess it’s taking him a little longer to get rolling.😀

sagegrouse
09-18-2018, 12:53 PM
In some ways amazing and in some ways not. He was recognized as the best shooter coming out of college- still holds some ACC records, was a 2 time first team All american, 2x ACC player of the year and national player of the year. Yes he played in an era when the best players went pro early but JJ is a special talent. It just took a little time to get rolling in the NBA.

I dunno, Dukelifer.... J.J. was drafted #11, presumably all the best judgments of the scouts and GMs at the time, given that ten teams passed on him. He has played 19,000 mins, grabbed 1,502 rebounds and scored 9,412 points.

Just a quick looks suggests the only players with better careers drafted ahead of him are LaMarcus Aldridge (30,000 mins., 7,224 RBs, 16,871 PTs) and Rudy Gay (28,000 mins., 4,743 RBs, 14,515 PTs). Randy Foye's numbers are roughly comparable to J.J.'s, but he is no longer in the league.

Maybe I overlooked someone... The first 15 picks in 2006 were --


Andrea Bargnani
LaMarcus Aldridge
Adam Morrison
Tyrus Thomas
Shelden Williams
Brandon Roy
Randy Foye
Rudy Gay
Patrick O'Bryant
Mouhamed Sene
J. J. Redick
Hilton Armstrong
Thabo Sefolosha
Ronnie Brewer
Cedric Simmons

NSDukeFan
09-18-2018, 01:18 PM
I dunno, Dukelifer... J.J. was drafted #11, presumably all the best judgments of the scouts and GMs at the time, given that ten teams passed on him. He has played 19,000 mins, grabbed 1,502 rebounds and scored 9,412 points.

Just a quick looks suggests the only players with better careers drafted ahead of him are LaMarcus Aldridge (30,000 mins., 7,224 RBs, 16,871 PTs) and Rudy Gay (28,000 mins., 4,743 RBs, 14,515 PTs). Randy Foye's numbers are roughly comparable to J.J.'s, but he is no longer in the league.

Maybe I overlooked someone... The first 15 picks in 2006 were --


Andrea Bargnani
LaMarcus Aldridge
Adam Morrison
Tyrus Thomas
Shelden Williams
Brandon Roy
Randy Foye
Rudy Gay
Patrick O'Bryant
Mouhamed Sene
J. J. Redick
Hilton Armstrong
Thabo Sefolosha
Ronnie Brewer
Cedric Simmons


In the what could have been department, it would have been nice to see what Brandon Roy could have done had his knees been better.

cato
09-18-2018, 01:39 PM
Tyrus Thomas


I take particular satisfaction in seeing JJ outperform Tyrus Thomas so thoroughly.

PackMan97
09-18-2018, 02:02 PM
Only Harrison Barnes on the list from UNC, none from State.

I was surprised to see TJ Warren off the list, but I guess being the second best player on one of the worst teams gets you little recognition.

JasonEvans
09-18-2018, 02:19 PM
The first 15 picks in 2006 were --


Andrea Bargnani
LaMarcus Aldridge
Adam Morrison
Tyrus Thomas
Shelden Williams
Brandon Roy
Randy Foye
Rudy Gay
Patrick O'Bryant
Mouhamed Sene
J. J. Redick
Hilton Armstrong
Thabo Sefolosha
Ronnie Brewer
Cedric Simmons


2006 is one of those legendarily bad drafts.

HoopsHype did a redraft a few months back and they came up with.


Lamarcus Aldridge (originally #2)
Kyle Lowry (24)
Paul Millsap (47)
Rajon Rondo (21)
Rudy Gay (8)
Brandon Roy (6)
JJ Redick (11)
Thabo Sefolosha (13)
JJ Barea (undrafted)
PJ Tucker (35)
Andrea Bargnani (1)
Randy Foye (7)
CJ Watson (undrafted)
Ronnie Brewer (14)
Jordan Farmar (26)
Steve Novak (31)
Tyrus Thomas (4)
Shawne Williams (17)


-Jason "only 5 of those guys ever made an All-Star game and fewer than 10 were regular starters over more than a couple years of their career" Evans

superdave
09-19-2018, 10:57 AM
Adam Morrison


Charlotte......every single time......

wobatus
09-19-2018, 11:14 AM
Only Harrison Barnes on the list from UNC, none from State.

I was surprised to see TJ Warren off the list, but I guess being the second best player on one of the worst teams gets you little recognition.

I thought Barnes a bit too high on that list. Reggie Bullock probably had a better year last year. Maybe even Ellington. You might prefer Barnes over Bullock (a year younger, more versatile, although Bullock is turning into a deadly 3 shooter), but at that price? And Bullock isn't close to being top 100. TJ Warren also had a better year than Barnes, I'd say. They give credit to Barnes being able to defend 4s. TJ ups his 3 point shooting a bit and he's on the list, but his eFG% is still higher than Barnes.

JNort
09-19-2018, 12:51 PM
I dunno, Dukelifer... J.J. was drafted #11, presumably all the best judgments of the scouts and GMs at the time, given that ten teams passed on him. He has played 19,000 mins, grabbed 1,502 rebounds and scored 9,412 points.

Just a quick looks suggests the only players with better careers drafted ahead of him are LaMarcus Aldridge (30,000 mins., 7,224 RBs, 16,871 PTs) and Rudy Gay (28,000 mins., 4,743 RBs, 14,515 PTs). Randy Foye's numbers are roughly comparable to J.J.'s, but he is no longer in the league.

Maybe I overlooked someone... The first 15 picks in 2006 were --


Andrea Bargnani
LaMarcus Aldridge
Adam Morrison
Tyrus Thomas
Shelden Williams
Brandon Roy
Randy Foye
Rudy Gay
Patrick O'Bryant
Mouhamed Sene
J. J. Redick
Hilton Armstrong
Thabo Sefolosha
Ronnie Brewer
Cedric Simmons


Of those drafted ahead of him it looks to keep like only Aldridge and Roy were better.

elvis14
09-19-2018, 02:01 PM
I thought Barnes a bit too high on that list. Reggie Bullock probably had a better year last year. Maybe even Ellington. You might prefer Barnes over Bullock (a year younger, more versatile, although Bullock is turning into a deadly 3 shooter), but at that price? And Bullock isn't close to being top 100. TJ Warren also had a better year than Barnes, I'd say. They give credit to Barnes being able to defend 4s. TJ ups his 3 point shooting a bit and he's on the list, but his eFG% is still higher than Barnes.

Maybe Barnes is on the list because he contributed greatly to an NBA championship. The Cavs don't beat the GSW without a truly unbelievable amount of help from Harry.

kAzE
09-19-2018, 02:06 PM
So ESPN is also doing their top 100, and they are significantly higher on Jayson Tatum than SI.

the 21-30 list came out today and has Jayson at #24. Those are some sky high expectations for a 20-year-old 2nd year pro. I have no doubt Jayson will be a top 10 talent one day, but I think I'd still put him behind Horford as of year 2.

Kyrie will presumably be in the 11-20 list.

JNort
09-19-2018, 03:29 PM
ESPN is doing theirs right now as well. It's a joke (per usual) how low some are and how high others are.

Cousins, Kristaps, DeRozan, Hayward, and Wall didn't even make top 30.

flyingdutchdevil
09-19-2018, 04:14 PM
ESPN is doing theirs right now as well. It's a joke (per usual) how low some are and how high others are.

Cousins, Kristaps, DeRozan, Hayward, and Wall didn't even make top 30.

3 of those 5 are coming off devastating and potentially career limiting injuries. Another is ineffective in the playoffs. And the fifth had a down year compared to 2016-17.

JNort
09-19-2018, 06:13 PM
3 of those 5 are coming off devastating and potentially career limiting injuries. Another is ineffective in the playoffs. And the fifth had a down year compared to 2016-17.

Injuries until its shown to impact their play are irrelevant to me. There isn't 30 people better than those guys in the NBA. That's just the guys rated too low, the ones rated too high are even worse imo.

RPS
09-19-2018, 06:47 PM
So ESPN is also doing their top 100, and they are significantly higher on Jayson Tatum than SI.

the 21-30 list came out today and has Jayson at #24. Those are some sky high expectations for a 20-year-old 2nd year pro. I have no doubt Jayson will be a top 10 talent one day, but I think I'd still put him behind Horford as of year 2.

Kyrie will presumably be in the 11-20 list.
The Sporting News has a new Top 25 Under 25 list (http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-player-rankings-top-25-under-25-giannis-antetokounmpo-joel-embiid-ben-simmons/egm52vxpe1is1b0g9s6rpbbqx). Ingram (#13) and Tatum (#7) are on it.

JNort
09-19-2018, 07:11 PM
The Sporting News has a new Top 25 Under 25 list (http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-player-rankings-top-25-under-25-giannis-antetokounmpo-joel-embiid-ben-simmons/egm52vxpe1is1b0g9s6rpbbqx). Ingram (#13) and Tatum (#7) are on it.

That list isn't too bad but Capela is soooooo much higher than I would expect.

kAzE
09-20-2018, 11:01 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24668157/nbarank-2018-19-11-20-best-players-season

I can't be the only one surprised by this. I won't argue at all with putting him behind Draymond, Jimmy Butler, Paul George, or even Klay, who I think will forever be underrated.

However, ESPN ranked Kyrie behind guys like Oladipo, Karl Towns, Ben Simmons in his 2nd year, Nikola Jokic (#12? are you crazy? This guy plays no defense), and 33-year-old Chris Paul.

I'm obviously biased, but in a vacuum, there's no way I would take any of those guys on my team for the 2018-19 season over Kyrie Irving.

sagegrouse
09-20-2018, 11:17 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24668157/nbarank-2018-19-11-20-best-players-season

I can't be the only one surprised by this. I won't argue at all with putting him behind Draymond, Jimmy Butler, Paul George, or even Klay, who I think will forever be underrated.

However, ESPN ranked Kyrie behind guys like Oladipo, Karl Towns, Ben Simmons in his 2nd year, Nikola Jokic (#12? are you crazy? This guy plays no defense), and 33-year-old Chris Paul.

I'm obviously biased, but in a vacuum, there's no way I would take any of those guys on my team for the 2018-19 season over Kyrie Irving.

Here's the entry on Kyrie (fair use only, of course):


As a young star, Irving charted as high as No. 8 in NBArank based on his immense potential. Now he's settled in as a top-20 player because he has averaged only 63 games played in his seven seasons -- and his defensive effort is not a lengthy visitor. But at age 26, with a full return to health and the possibility of playoff heroics ahead, Uncle Drew can rise again. -- Royce Webb

Paraphrase: only top 20 'cuz he has averaged only 63 games a year. Plus, somewhat of a knock on his defense. If Kyrie is healthy, he's a top ten player. IMHO (where the H has been missing since the 1980's).

English
09-20-2018, 11:42 AM
Injuries until its shown to impact their play are irrelevant to me. There isn't 30 people better than those guys in the NBA. That's just the guys rated too low, the ones rated too high are even worse imo.

That's your prerogative, but this isn't a video game. These are human athletes who have human bodies. Historical trends on recoveries from gruesome injury tend to tell pretty clearly that ACLs and achilles tears typically take longer than a single season to return to 100% ability. But hey, the entire point of lists like these is to drum up discussion.

JNort
09-20-2018, 01:16 PM
That's your prerogative, but this isn't a video game. These are human athletes who have human bodies. Historical trends on recoveries from gruesome injury tend to tell pretty clearly that ACLs and achilles tears typically take longer than a single season to return to 100% ability. But hey, the entire point of lists like these is to drum up discussion.
I get that but this is about who's the best, not whos the healthiest. So if all are healthy then this list is wrong by a bunch. That's how I view it.