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View Full Version : Football shows progress, or this week's debate on Ted Roof



Bluedawg
10-28-2007, 11:45 PM
Interesting article in today's N&O...

Duke's couldas, shouldas keep Roof on sunny side (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/duke/story/751333.html)


Roof said it felt like he had to do 85 million things before Duke could become a consistent winner when he replaced Carl Franks with five games left in the 2003 season.

Looking at the 2007 close calls, Roof said that list has been whittled to a handful.

"It just reaffirms how much progress we've made and how, literally, we're feet away from being 5-2 vs. 1-6," he said. "And how extremely fine the line is between winning and losing."

Roof thinks the results are on the way. The fact that none of his players has jumped ship yet is gratifying.


"To have gone through what we've gone through ... we haven't endured -- we've persevered," he said. "No one has let go. Everyone sees where we're going and how far we've come. To get there, that's the next step."

I agree. I've consistently been on TR's side and i believe they are on the threshold of becoming 5-2 instead of 1-6

dukie8
10-28-2007, 11:54 PM
Interesting article in today's N&O...

Duke's couldas, shouldas keep Roof on sunny side (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/duke/story/751333.html)


Roof thinks the results are on the way. The fact that none of his players has jumped ship yet is gratifying.



I agree. I've consistently been on TR's side and i believe they are on the threshold of becoming 5-2 instead of 1-6

how is this year any different than last year when there also were multiple near misses? the acc is woeful this year -- probably the worst it ever has been -- and we still have no wins. i don't call going from 0 wins to 1 win against a bad northwestern team progress. other schools with similar academic constraints -- vandy and stanford -- don't sit around and pat themselves on the back over near misses. why should we?

Bob Green
10-29-2007, 05:29 AM
I will be the first to admit that our current 1-7 record is disappointing. I truly believed we would win 5 games this year. However, it is important to maintain a proper perspective. First of all, according to Sagarin (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt07.htm), Duke's Strength of Schedule is the 4th hardest in the nation. Second, our seven losses have come against teams with a combined record of 40-17. Four of those teams are currently ranked in the BCS poll: VT (11), UConn (13), UVA (23), & WFU (24). Our one victory came against 5-4 Northwestern who is ranked by Sagarin at #79. Duke is #86.

We finished up 2006 ranked #153 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt06.htm). So we have improved to the tune of 67 positions.

JasonEvans
10-29-2007, 07:39 AM
I will be the first to admit that our current 1-7 record is disappointing. I truly believed we would win 5 games this year. However, it is important to maintain a proper perspective. First of all, according to Sagarin (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt07.htm), Duke's Strength of Schedule is the 4th hardest in the nation. Second, our seven losses have come against teams with a combined record of 40-17. Four of those teams are currently ranked in the BCS poll: VT (11), UConn (13), UVA (23), & WFU (24). Our one victory came against 5-4 Northwestern who is ranked by Sagarin at #79. Duke is #86.

We finished up 2006 ranked #153 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt06.htm). So we have improved to the tune of 67 positions.

But Bob, wins are all that matters. Wins are the only measure of progress. Don't know know that?

-JE

OZZIE4DUKE
10-29-2007, 08:10 AM
But Bob, wins are all that matters. Wins are the only measure of progress. Don't know know that?

-JE

Let's finish the season with 4 straight wins and then debate how our 5 - 7 season could have been 9 - 2, and how smart it was to schedule Notre Dame for this year!

NYC Duke Fan
10-29-2007, 04:14 PM
But Bob, wins are all that matters. Wins are the only measure of progress. Don't know know that?

-JE

But when you only win one game out of the last 18 that you've coached, then wins do matter. Duke will probably go 1-11 this year...Not a great resume for retaining the coach.

Bob Green
10-29-2007, 04:28 PM
But when you only win one game out of the last 18 that you've coached, then wins do matter. Duke will probably go 1-11 this year...Not a great resume for retaining the coach.

I'm not willing to concede the last four games and accept 1-11. We have beaten Clemson twice in the last ten years and just may do it again this Saturday. GT is inconsistent this year. Notre Dame and UNC are both winnable games.

We can still finish strong.

rockymtn devil
10-29-2007, 05:24 PM
First and foremost, I think Coach Roof needs to be given one more season. While progress has been made, at the end of the day, it isn't translating into wins. Like it or not, winning is the standard upon which college football teams should be judged in terms of their athletic achievements, and Duke hasn't won under Ted Roof. But, because Duke has at least looked somewhat competitive this season, Roof needs to get one more season to try and turn that competition into some victories.

So yes, progress has been made, but is it really as significant as some on here would like to think it is?

2003 (Roof took over after the homecoming disaster against Wake Forest and coached the last 5 games of the year: 2-3 (wins over GT, UNC; respectable loss to NCST, Tenn., blowout at Clemson)

2004: 2-9 (wins over 1-AA The Citadel, Clemson)
2005: 1-10 (win over 1-AA VMI)
2006: 0-12 (loss to 1-AA Richmond)
2007: In progress, 1-7 (win over Northwestern)

Is this progress really sufficient to give people confidence in Duke football over the next few seasons? Duke has won 6 games in 4.5 seasons of football under Ted Roof, and 2 of those wins were against 1-AA opponents. This past weekend Duke played FSU tough for half the game, and the DBR front page story seemed at least encouraged at the result. It even pointed to the score relative to past Duke-FSU games as evidence of improvement. Again, while I don't disagree that Duke has improved, that score was as much about the Seminoles' decline as the Blue Devils' improvement. This is the same FSU program that is currently on a 2-game losing streak to Wake Forest. As was noted earlier in this thread, the ACC is terrible this year, and yet Duke can't seem to break through with a victory.

I hope it happens, and I think Ted Roof has done enough to buy another season at the helm. But, another 1-11 season with a bunch of "almost wins" shouldn't cut it.

OldPhiKap
10-29-2007, 05:46 PM
1. Roof certainly should be back next year. Our teams are more competitive than they have been in years. Our losses have not been the result of poor coaching decisions.

2. In order to win consistently, you need to be 2 or 3 deep at every position with top caliber talent. We have improved in that regard but are not there yet. I don't care who the coach is -- football is a war of attrition on the field and we are still building up to that position.

3. I think it is a bit silly to think about what Roof "has to do next year" to keep his job.

4. Anyone thinking some big name coach is just sitting around, waiting for Duke to call is crazy.

5. Developing a winning culture takes time. When our hoops team is down by five with five minutes to play, you KNOW we're still gonna win the ball game because we've done it so many times before and we KNOW we are capable of pulling it out. When our football team is up by a score with five minutes to go, do you have the same feeling? Or do you "know" that this one will slip away as well? It takes a lot of time to get a program from that latter form to the former one.

Uncle Drew
10-29-2007, 06:57 PM
1. Roof certainly should be back next year. Our teams are more competitive than they have been in years. Our losses have not been the result of poor coaching decisions.

2. In order to win consistently, you need to be 2 or 3 deep at every position with top caliber talent. We have improved in that regard but are not there yet. I don't care who the coach is -- football is a war of attrition on the field and we are still building up to that position.

3. I think it is a bit silly to think about what Roof "has to do next year" to keep his job.

4. Anyone thinking some big name coach is just sitting around, waiting for Duke to call is crazy.

5. Developing a winning culture takes time. When our hoops team is down by five with five minutes to play, you KNOW we're still gonna win the ball game because we've done it so many times before and we KNOW we are capable of pulling it out. When our football team is up by a score with five minutes to go, do you have the same feeling? Or do you "know" that this one will slip away as well? It takes a lot of time to get a program from that latter form to the former one.


1. Yes Roof should be back next year and maybe a year after that despite his record. One of the things that got Duke into this mess was firing coaches before their first round of recruits became seniors. And one of the things assisting us in not getting better recruits is no one wants to ink with a school when you aren't sure the coach will be there in a year or two.

2. Amen. Clone Vince Oghobaase and have all of them line up on D. Opposing QB's and RB's would have to wear Depends because they'd wet their pants in fear.

3. People want X number of wins and it's hard to fill that equation with a rational number. I see improvement from last year to this year in areas. But for whatever reason that improvement has not equaled W's.

4. Agreed 1000%! The state Duke football is in right now, you'd have to be crazier than Charles Manson to take the job. If the time comes I do think they need to go after as big a name as they can get. But it's not like coaches are out there saying, "man I can't wait till there's a head coach vacancy at Duke so I can apply for the job"!

5. A winning culture takes time. But getting past a culture and acceptance for losing takes longer. You'd think after shooting themselves in the foot so many times eventually they'd put the revolver down. We all want wins, fans, players and coaches. I want to watch a Duke football game where I'm not hoping they will come from behind. I want them to take the lead and keep it. I don't want to see a close 4th quarter win by a field goal, I want to win by a couple of TD's. Part of Duke's problem is that talent wise their margin for error is so slim the deck is stacked against them at the start of the game. If Duke plays it's best in a lot of games they would win by a decent amount. But penalties, punting 20- yards, taking a sack instead of throwing the ball away etc. assist the other teams game plan. They are kids in a lot of regards and it sucks for me or anyone else to criticize in a way. But we've all seen plays in football AND basketball and said to ourself, "________ what the $@#@ we're you thinking"?!?!

dukie8
10-29-2007, 10:51 PM
1. Roof certainly should be back next year. Our teams are more competitive than they have been in years. Our losses have not been the result of poor coaching decisions.
they have been more competitive because the acc currently is enjoying its worst season in history and duke doesn't play the best team -- bc. do you honestly believe that this duke football team wouldn't lose 50-0 to a typical fsu or va tech team?


2. In order to win consistently, you need to be 2 or 3 deep at every position with top caliber talent. We have improved in that regard but are not there yet. I don't care who the coach is -- football is a war of attrition on the field and we are still building up to that position.
huh? where on earth do you get this from? i'll take my chances with just 1 good quarterback and running back. do you actually believe that you need a good backup or 3rd string qb to win consistently? where are you getting that we have improved in getting top caliber talent? a couple of weeks ago i posted how our last 4 classes have ranked and, quiet frankly, they are just as bad now as they always have been.


3. I think it is a bit silly to think about what Roof "has to do next year" to keep his job.
agreed. he should be gone after this year. what looks like 1 win in the past 2 years doesn't cut it.


4. Anyone thinking some big name coach is just sitting around, waiting for Duke to call is crazy.
you clearly have no concept of what money will do. i don't think duke should do it, but if duke wants to shell out cash, there will be a long line of big name coaches dropping off their cvs.


5. Developing a winning culture takes time. When our hoops team is down by five with five minutes to play, you KNOW we're still gonna win the ball game because we've done it so many times before and we KNOW we are capable of pulling it out. When our football team is up by a score with five minutes to go, do you have the same feeling? Or do you "know" that this one will slip away as well? It takes a lot of time to get a program from that latter form to the former one
you act like every player on the football team is a complete loser and came from high school programs that also lost everything in sight. has it dawned on you that maybe, just maybe, some of the players were stars in high school from very successful programs? also, that "winning culture" you think is critical sure has been helpful to nd this year.

Bluedawg
10-29-2007, 11:36 PM
...where are you getting that we have improved in getting top caliber talent? a couple of weeks ago i posted how our last 4 classes have ranked and, quiet frankly, they are just as bad now as they always have been.

you act like every player on the football team is a complete loser and came from high school programs that also lost everything in sight. has it dawned on you that maybe, just maybe, some of the players were stars in high school from very successful programs? also, that "winning culture" you think is critical sure has been helpful to nd this year.

Well, which one is it? Do we have good talent or not?

duke2x
10-29-2007, 11:52 PM
I'm as big a Duke football fan as they come. I want nothing more than Roof to turn things around. I wanted the same for Goldsmith and Franks (my era) until the players starting lobbying for a coaching change.

Just for the sake of discussion though, how many games have some of you attended or watched over the past 2 years? I have to question whether some of you have watched the team much this year based on what I've read. We have improved a little bit because we are taking games into the 3rd and 4th quarters that were over at halftime last year, but we could just as easily be on pace to break Northwestern's losing streak right now. We aren't as competitive as we were in 2002 when we kept Franks after a 2-10 season with 5 losses by 1 TD or less. We are also losing 1-2 games a year we really shouldn't if we can compete with ACC teams for more than a quarter. (Richmond 2006, Navy 2007).

Uncle Drew
10-29-2007, 11:56 PM
they have been more competitive because the acc currently is enjoying its worst season in history and duke doesn't play the best team -- bc. do you honestly believe that this duke football team wouldn't lose 50-0 to a typical fsu or va tech team?


I happen to think your point is VERY valid on this point, but there are quite a few out there who will point at BC and swear the ACC is as good as ever. I think FSU, VT, Miami are all down and in a normal season it would be a slaughter. But I will say I have seen improvement especially on defense. The offense however has looked out of sync much of the season.



huh? where on earth do you get this from? I'll take my chances with just 1 good quarterback and running back. do you actually believe that you need a good backup or 3rd string QB to win consistently? where are you getting that we have improved in getting top caliber talent? a couple of weeks ago i posted how our last 4 classes have ranked and, quiet frankly, they are just as bad now as they always have been.

I think what he means is the good teams out there have a third string as good as Dukes starters due to red shirting and other factors. And with depth you CAN run players in and out to keep them fresh a lot easier. I know for a fact the defense being tired lost at least two games this year. Being able to make a quality sub would help. But I'm with you, I'd take an athletic QB who can sling it accurately over 4 average QB's.



agreed. he should be gone after this year. what looks like 1 win in the past 2 years doesn't cut it.


I actually think they should keep him, turnover at head coach has contributed a lot to Dukes woes. Now as to how many games he should be winning each season is speculative. Should he have won more games, God yes! But I also know the players haven't executed the plays they were given to the level they should. (For what ever reason, maybe you can also blame the coaches for that, I don't know.)



you clearly have no concept of what money will do. i don't think duke should do it, but if duke wants to shell out cash, there will be a long line of big name coaches dropping off their cvs.


We all have a great idea what money CAN do. With enough money Duke could get Bill Billacheck from the Pats. But Duke is NOT going to spend that kind of money (were talking a LOT of money) and honestly I'm not sure they could afford it. And let's face it you flash a lot of cash it might get big name coaches. But would they be doing it for a genuine challenge thinking they could succeed. Or would it be to get a nice nest egg to retire on. People will do a lot of things they'd rather not do for money, even coach Duke football. One thing I can honestly say about Roof, I think he honestly cares about the program and wants to succeed for the university and the players. (Not just to get a pay check or his own ego.)



you act like every player on the football team is a complete loser and came from high school programs that also lost everything in sight. has it dawned on you that maybe, just maybe, some of the players were stars in high school from very successful programs? also, that "winning culture" you think is critical sure has been helpful to nd this year.


No, not every player is a loser, truth be told none of them are and they were all used to winning before they came to Duke. The problem is there is a big step up when you talk high school to college. And there is a HUGE difference between a five / six star recruit and a 2-3 star recruit. Take any ACC basketball bench warmer to your local YMCA and in a pick up game they would dominate. Unless you have played with that caliber of athlete it's hard to comprehend. Yet we all see those guys getting little or no playing time because the starters are that much better than them. It's the same way in football and Duke has to start getting some prime time talent (like the QB you speak of, and some great linemen to protect him!) to compete.

dukie8
10-29-2007, 11:58 PM
Well, which one is it? Do we have good talent or not?

according to the recruiting rankings, we don't. "knowing" how to win games isn't exclusive to a-quality d1 talent. there are plenty of guys who only play football in high school who "know" how to win (if that quality even exists).

dukie8
10-30-2007, 12:06 AM
We all have a great idea what money CAN do. With enough money Duke could get Bill Billacheck from the Pats. But Duke is NOT going to spend that kind of money (were talking a LOT of money) and honestly I'm not sure they could afford it. And let's face it you flash a lot of cash it might get big name coaches. But would they be doing it for a genuine challenge thinking they could succeed. Or would it be to get a nice nest egg to retire on. People will do a lot of things they'd rather not do for money, even coach Duke football. One thing I can honestly say about Roof, I think he honestly cares about the program and wants to succeed for the university and the players. (Not just to get a pay check or his own ego.)

there actually was a long article on bloomberg today about what a joke it is that schools are paying football coaches "academic bonuses" for a job well done in the classroom. the article pointed out that most big time coaches earn $1-2MM and a $50K isn't going to get them to do anything -- particularly when they will be fired if they don't win enough.

the reason why i bring it up is that at the end of it, they listed a lot of comp figures for college coaches. the list was very long but, for some reason, didn't include roof. the long and the short of it is that only a handful were over $2MM and most were around $1MM. if duke were willing to pay coach g around $700K to coach a team that has annual revenue LESS than the coach's comp, then it certainly could toss in a little more to lure a big time college football coach in the $1-1.5MM range. interestingly enough, the nc st coach only was listed at $600K and i thought that he left bc for the big bucks.

dukie8
10-30-2007, 12:10 AM
I'm as big a Duke football fan as they come. I want nothing more than Roof to turn things around. I wanted the same for Goldsmith and Franks (my era) until the players starting lobbying for a coaching change.

Just for the sake of discussion though, how many games have some of you attended or watched over the past 2 years? I have to question whether some of you have watched the team much this year based on what I've read. We have improved a little bit because we are taking games into the 3rd and 4th quarters that were over at halftime last year, but we could just as easily be on pace to break Northwestern's losing streak right now. We aren't as competitive as we were in 2002 when we kept Franks after a 2-10 season with 5 losses by 1 TD or less. We are also losing 1-2 games a year we really shouldn't if we can compete with ACC teams for more than a quarter. (Richmond 2006, Navy 2007).

it's tough to watch the games if you don't live in the area (duke isn't nd). the fsu game was on and i watched it until i went out. it's also easy to listen to the games. i assume that a lot of people will watch the nd game because it will be on national tv (a rarity).

last year was just like this year where we hung around games and blew them in the 2nd half (eg, miami, unc and alabama). i don't see any difference other than the fact that we happened to win 1 of them this year and that the teams in the acc are a lot weaker.

YmoBeThere
10-30-2007, 06:50 AM
interestingly enough, the nc st coach only was listed at $600K and i thought that he left bc for the big bucks.

My source at BC said that he was on a short leash at BC because he kept on losing the games he needed to win. Overall record was fine, but the program was stuck at that level. The program doesn't have to go backwards when a new coach takes over...obviously, some time is needed to observe as we(Duke) have been down that path with coaches before(Goldsmith and to a lesser extent Roof).

Bluedawg
10-30-2007, 09:56 AM
Originally Posted by dukie8
interestingly enough, the nc st coach only was listed at $600K and i thought that he left bc for the big bucks.


My source at BC said that he was on a short leash at BC because he kept on losing the games he needed to win. Overall record was fine, but the program was stuck at that level. The program doesn't have to go backwards when a new coach takes over...obviously, some time is needed to observe as we(Duke) have been down that path with coaches before(Goldsmith and to a lesser extent Roof).

If memory serves, news reports indicated that he had been putting out feelers to see what the interest was.

Devilsfan
10-30-2007, 10:43 AM
I wish he had some fire when addressing the public. He always seems so "Eeyore" like on camera. Enthusiasm is contagious.

YmoBeThere
10-30-2007, 09:14 PM
Couldn't get it to line up in a table...OPP Rec is the record for the opposing school, e.g. Northwestern in 2007(5-4), etc. PF= Points For, PA = Points Against.

Overall, we are 7-22 in our last 20 games versus what I would consider our "peer" institutions. The picture doesn't get better if I were to add the service academies in...


Northwestern
Year W-L PF PA OPP Rec
2007 W 20 14 5-4
2003 L 10 28 6-7
2002 L 21 26 3-9
2001 L 7 44 4-7
2000 L 5 38 8-4
1999 L 12 15 3-8
1998 W 44 10 3-9
1997 L 20 24 5-7
1996 L 13 38 9-3

Vanderbilt
Year W-L PF PA OPP Rec
2006 L 28 45 4-8
2001 L 28 42 2-9
2000 L 7 26 3-8
1999 L 14 31 5-6
1998 L 33 36 2-9
1992 L 37 42 4-7
1991 W 17 13 5-6
1988 W 17 15 7-3-1
1987 W 35 31 4-7
1986 L 18 24 1-10

Wake Forest
Year W-L PF PA OPP Rec
2006 L 13 14 11-3
2005 L 6 44 4-7
2004 L 22 24 4-7
2003 L 13 42 5-7
2002 L 13 36 7-6
2001 L 35 42 6-5
2000 L 26 28 2-9
1999 W 48 35 7-5
1998 W 19 16 3-8
1997 L 24 38 5-6

(edit: see the Stat section of the Tips (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=53922&postcount=3) post)

NYC Duke Fan
10-31-2007, 05:04 AM
I think that it is utter nonsense to keep hearing that a good coach would not come to Duke to coach football.

Here are two reasons why they would come :

1- The ACC is a premier football conference. It winner gets to play in a high profile bowl game on New Year's Day and its 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th place teams get to play in other games.

2-The coach's children get a free Duke Education.

Take for example Paul Johnson of Navy. Unless he loves the life at a military institution, why wouldn't he consider Duke if the money was right. Navy is independent and unless they have a really good year, which they have had in the past few seasons, they are going nowhere. When was the last time you saw Navy on national TV except for the Army-Navy game ?

Why wouldn't a top coach in the MAP or WAC conference come to Duke ? If I am not mistaken didn't the present Wake Coach come from the MAP conference?

I am sure that Bill Cowher, Jimmy Johnson or Bill Parcells have no interest in coming to Duke, but there have been other ex=NFL Coaches who have gone on to coach college football....see Tom Coughlin at BC and Butch Davis at UNC. There might be others but I cannot think of them.

I know that is has been said over and over but I will say it again ; if you pay someone enough they will come.

If Wake can turn around its football program with an enrollment much smaller than Duke, then there is no reason why Duke cannot.

YmoBeThere
10-31-2007, 06:38 AM
I know that is has been said over and over but I will say it again ; if you pay someone enough they will come.

If Wake can turn around its football program with an enrollment much smaller than Duke, then there is no reason why Duke cannot.

QFT, and I wonder why we have to get worse to get better...which many take as a given.

cspan37421
10-31-2007, 07:50 AM
Coughlin did not go from NFL head coach to college head coach, and he's not in college now.

Why wouldn't a coach come to Duke? Recent history is that it has been a graveyard for coaches, making it unattractive to an up-and-coming coach, who might rightly fear if time at Duke might be their last job for quite awhile. I think it would take an exceptionally self-confident coach to take that risk in their prime.

IMO the more likely target would/should be a set-for-life turnaround specialist with ego needs that stretch beyond their financial & career need. To them, success at Duke would be the icing on the cake, if not the Nobel Prize for football coaching.

Having said all that, I think Roof has the defense playing pretty well, and despite the W/L record, we have been competitive in many games the last couple years. I would not get rid of him before his contract is up, unless there's someone clearly better who is available and interested. If we can get the offense straightened out, we can be a pretty good team. How we do that, I don't know. Didn't Roof change the offensive coordinator from last season?

YmoBeThere
10-31-2007, 08:12 AM
Thanks for fixing! Also, small typo 29 games not 20

whereinthehellami
10-31-2007, 08:15 AM
I think that it is utter nonsense to keep hearing that a good coach would not come to Duke to coach football.

Here are two reasons why they would come :

1- The ACC is a premier football conference. It winner gets to play in a high profile bowl game on New Year's Day and its 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th place teams get to play in other games.

2-The coach's children get a free Duke Education.

Take for example Paul Johnson of Navy. Unless he loves the life at a military institution, why wouldn't he consider Duke if the money was right. Navy is independent and unless they have a really good year, which they have had in the past few seasons, they are going nowhere. When was the last time you saw Navy on national TV except for the Army-Navy game ?

Why wouldn't a top coach in the MAP or WAC conference come to Duke ? If I am not mistaken didn't the present Wake Coach come from the MAP conference?

I am sure that Bill Cowher, Jimmy Johnson or Bill Parcells have no interest in coming to Duke, but there have been other ex=NFL Coaches who have gone on to coach college football....see Tom Coughlin at BC and Butch Davis at UNC. There might be others but I cannot think of them.

I know that is has been said over and over but I will say it again ; if you pay someone enough they will come.

If Wake can turn around its football program with an enrollment much smaller than Duke, then there is no reason why Duke cannot.

Because of a lack of support from the adminstration and the fans. Duke's facilities, stadium, and other amenities are way behind the other schools in the ACC (even WF). Keeping up in football has often been considered to be like an arm's race. Duke has been out of the race for years. It would take a substantial increase in the level of support from the adminstration for Duke to even become competitive with the other schools. Recruiting is the lifeblood of any program. Recruits love fan support and facilties (weight rooms, training rooms, film and meeting rooms). Until that stuff gets support I see Duke as a foot in the door type school. Why would a coach want to take a job with so much stacked against him?

whereinthehellami
10-31-2007, 08:22 AM
Duke has some talent that can comete with the rest of the ACC they just lack depth and the killer instinct needed to finish games.

Bluedawg
10-31-2007, 09:12 AM
For the record...the second half of the title to this thread "or this week's debate on Ted Roof" was not mine. it was added.

Bluedawg
10-31-2007, 09:15 AM
Couldn't get it to line up in a table...

Actually you lined that up real well, something I've never been able to do on his board. how did you manage it?

Bluedawg
10-31-2007, 09:24 AM
I think that it is utter nonsense to keep hearing that a good coach would not come to Duke to coach football.

Here are two reasons why they would come :

1- The ACC is a premier football conference. It winner gets to play in a high profile bowl game on New Year's Day and its 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th place teams get to play in other games.

2-The coach's children get a free Duke Education.

Take for example Paul Johnson of Navy. Unless he loves the life at a military institution, why wouldn't he consider Duke if the money was right. Navy is independent and unless they have a really good year, which they have had in the past few seasons, they are going nowhere. When was the last time you saw Navy on national TV except for the Army-Navy game ?

Why wouldn't a top coach in the MAP or WAC conference come to Duke ? If I am not mistaken didn't the present Wake Coach come from the MAP conference?

I am sure that Bill Cowher, Jimmy Johnson or Bill Parcells have no interest in coming to Duke, but there have been other ex=NFL Coaches who have gone on to coach college football....see Tom Coughlin at BC and Butch Davis at UNC. There might be others but I cannot think of them.

I know that is has been said over and over but I will say it again ; if you pay someone enough they will come.

If Wake can turn around its football program with an enrollment much smaller than Duke, then there is no reason why Duke cannot.

I've been one of the voices saying that a "name" coach would not come to Duke, but reading Frank Dascenzo's column (http://www.heraldsun.com/sports/columns/dascenzo/75-893872.cfm) in The Herald-Sun yesterday I found this comment:


Alleva elected to promote Roof, then defensive coordinator, to interim head coach for Duke's final five games. Roof's coaching looked, well, inspirational. The Devils beat Georgia Tech and UNC, and in his infinite wisdom, Alleva -- this time not on the recommendation of good buddy Steve Spurrier -- chose Roof as Duke's next head coach ahead of such candidates as Colgate's Dick Biddle (a Duke graduate and former linebacker) and Bobby Ross (former head coach at Maryland and Georgia Tech, as well as the San Diego Chargers and Detroit Lions).

Although I'm not ready to see TR leave, i still think he can pull this off, your point has merit.

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Bluedawg
10-31-2007, 09:50 AM
Having said all that, I think Roof has the defense playing pretty well, and despite the W/L record, we have been competitive in many games the last couple years.

If we can get the offense straightened out, we can be a pretty good team. How we do that, I don't know. Didn't Roof change the offensive coordinator from last season?

Defense looks better than offense...really?

As of 10/28 (http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2007-2008/confldrs.html):

Offensively Duke ranks 12th in TOTAL OFFENSE; 12th in RUSHING OFFENSE; 6th in PASS OFFENSE; 12th in SCORING OFFENSE; 4th in PASS EFFICIENCY; and 3rd in KICKOFF RETURNS; 12th in FIRST DOWNS; 11th in 3RD-DN CONVERSIONS; 8th in 4TH-DN CONVERSIONS; 12th in TIME OF POSSESSION; 11th in RED ZONE OFFENSE for an average ranking of 9.

Defensively Duke ranks 12th in TOTAL DEFENSE; 12th in RUSHING DEFENSE; 12th in PASS DEFENSE; 12th in SCORING DEFENSE; 12th in
PASS DEF EFFICIENCY; 5th in RED ZONE DEFENSE; 12th in OPPONENT 1ST DOWNS; 12th in OPP 3RD-DN CONVERT; 3rd in OPP 4TH-DN CONVERT fora average ranking of 10

Bluedawg
10-31-2007, 09:54 AM
Because of a lack of support from the adminstration and the fans. Duke's facilities, stadium, and other amenities are way behind the other schools in the ACC (even WF). Keeping up in football has often been considered to be like an arm's race. Duke has been out of the race for years. It would take a substantial increase in the level of support from the adminstration for Duke to even become competitive with the other schools. Recruiting is the lifeblood of any program. Recruits love fan support and facilties (weight rooms, training rooms, film and meeting rooms). Until that stuff gets support I see Duke as a foot in the door type school. Why would a coach want to take a job with so much stacked against him?

I don't think the Yoh building fits this description. the stadium yes, but not Yoh which houses the weight rooms, training rooms, film and meeting rooms.

YmoBeThere
10-31-2007, 06:49 PM
Actually you lined that up real well, something I've never been able to do on his board. how did you manage it?

Mods corrected it for me...

cspan37421
10-31-2007, 09:25 PM
I guess I weighted the 25 we gave up at Miami too much. I thought about that, the VA game, the NW game, and felt like we were playing OK. But Va Tech was a blowout. WF and Navy were close but not b/c of defense, UConn looked to be a major embarrassment early on (but look at UConn now - it was no fluke).

I take it back. My baseline was that if we didn't give up 40+ to FSU and Miami that our defense was getting good. I guess I have to adapt - FSU and Miami are no longer the yardsticks by which we can measure how bad the team can get blown out by a quality opponent. Guess I'm a creature of my era.

arnie
12-28-2014, 12:00 PM
1. Yes Roof should be back next year and maybe a year after that despite his record. One of the things that got Duke into this mess was firing coaches before their first round of recruits became seniors. And one of the things assisting us in not getting better recruits is no one wants to ink with a school when you aren't sure the coach will be there in a year or two.

2. Amen. Clone Vince Oghobaase and have all of them line up on D. Opposing QB's and RB's would have to wear Depends because they'd wet their pants in fear.

3. People want X number of wins and it's hard to fill that equation with a rational number. I see improvement from last year to this year in areas. But for whatever reason that improvement has not equaled W's.

4. Agreed 1000%! The state Duke football is in right now, you'd have to be crazier than Charles Manson to take the job. If the time comes I do think they need to go after as big a name as they can get. But it's not like coaches are out there saying, "man I can't wait till there's a head coach vacancy at Duke so I can apply for the job"!

5. A winning culture takes time. But getting past a culture and acceptance for losing takes longer. You'd think after shooting themselves in the foot so many times eventually they'd put the revolver down. We all want wins, fans, players and coaches. I want to watch a Duke football game where I'm not hoping they will come from behind. I want them to take the lead and keep it. I don't want to see a close 4th quarter win by a field goal, I want to win by a couple of TD's. Part of Duke's problem is that talent wise their margin for error is so slim the deck is stacked against them at the start of the game. If Duke plays it's best in a lot of games they would win by a decent amount. But penalties, punting 20- yards, taking a sack instead of throwing the ball away etc. assist the other teams game plan. They are kids in a lot of regards and it sucks for me or anyone else to criticize in a way. But we've all seen plays in football AND basketball and said to ourself, "________ what the $@#@ we're you thinking"?!?!

Look at the discussion we were having in late 2007. How things have changed!