The UNC Opening Game Streak.

[UVa1981]

I wasn't aware of this, but apparently the author--a UNC alumnus--is intensely so: for 21 years UNC hasn't won a season opener against a Power 5 team (season-opening wins over non-Power 5 teams don't count and, thus, extend the streak: https://www.wralsportsfan.com/heels-season-opening-struggles-are-nothing-new/17819982/.

Interestingly, the writer tosses in, as a small lagniappe, the UNC loss, led by Matt Doherty, to Duke in the first round of the 2002 ACC basketball tournament. The four corners reference is almost precious.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I wasn't aware of this, but apparently the author--a UNC alumnus--is intensely so: for 21 years UNC hasn't won a season opener against a Power 5 team (season-opening wins over non-Power 5 teams don't count and, thus, extend the streak: https://www.wralsportsfan.com/heels-season-opening-struggles-are-nothing-new/17819982/.

Interestingly, the writer tosses in, as a small lagniappe, the UNC loss, led by Matt Doherty, to Duke in the first round of the 2002 ACC basketball tournament. The four corners reference is almost precious.

Sporks for you - I always enjoy your contributions. Any reference to UNC losses are welcome here.

[PackMan97]

It's a shame that the author didn't mention the two NCAA titles ought to be vacated. Once again, cheating pays.

Marvin Austin will go down as one of my favorite Tarheels. Can you imagine what might have been without his twitter account? If Carolina had gone on to beat LSU and get rolling like they were in basketball? Ugh.

Either way, I make sure to drink up their tears after every loss. So delicious.

[AustinDevil]

That does seem like a lengthy streak, but I'd be hard-pressed to identify any Duke season-opening wins over P5 teams in that same timespan. I can recall lots of openers (wins and losses) against FCS and G5 teams. I can't recall Duke openers against either ACC or other P5 teams, though.

[Reilly]

That does seem like a lengthy streak, but I'd be hard-pressed to identify any Duke season-opening wins over P5 teams in that same timespan. I can recall lots of openers (wins and losses) against FCS and G5 teams. I can't recall Duke openers against either ACC or other P5 teams, though.

Last for Duke looks like 1994 over Maryland: http://www.goduke.com/fls/4200/media-guides/football/2018/Year-by-Year.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=4200

[Highlander]

That does seem like a lengthy streak, but I'd be hard-pressed to identify any Duke season-opening wins over P5 teams in that same timespan. I can recall lots of openers (wins and losses) against FCS and G5 teams. I can't recall Duke openers against either ACC or other P5 teams, though.

Good call out. I believe our last opening day win vs. P5 was my Freshman year vs. Maryland (1994-1995) in Fred Goldsmith's one miracle season. Robert "Bowling Ball" Baldwin rumbled for 238 yards and 4 TD's on a rainy Saturday afternoon.

To be fair, we really haven't played that many P5 opponents on opening weekend during the last 20 years (I counted 3 since 1998, all in conference opponents, and the most recent was around 15 years ago).

http://www.goduke.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&SPID=1843&SPSID=22666&q_season=1994&conf_school_id=

[wilson]

...I'd be hard-pressed to identify any Duke season-opening wins over P5 teams in that same timespan. I can recall lots of openers (wins and losses) against FCS and G5 teams. I can't recall Duke openers against either ACC or other P5 teams, though.You'd be right. The linked article is pleasant insofar as it recounts tar heel suffering, but the streak in question isn't all that outlandish for a middle-of-the-road P5 team which either a) has a decent chance of starting out with a loss to another P5 team, or b) doesn't start the season by playing a P5 opponent at all.

Since 1997, Duke has opened the season vs. P5 opponents on the following occasions:
1997: NC State 45, Duke 142001: Florida State 55, Duke 132003: Virginia 27, Duke 02008: UConn 45, Duke 14**not sure if this one counts...UConn was a member of the Big East at the time

And that's it. Not only has Duke failed to defeat a P5 opponent in a season opener since 1994 (over Maryland in Fred Goldsmith's magical season), we haven't even attempted to do so that often. The average final score in our season openers against P5 opponents has been a 43-10 loss. And furthermore, in the specified timeframe, Duke has lost four season openers to non-P5 teams (East Carolina 1999, 2000, and 2005, and Navy 2004), as well as on three separate occasions to FCS opponent Richmond (2006, 2009, & 2011). Basically, for Duke football in season openers over the last ~2 decades, the reality is: Success, thy name is NC Central (2013, 2016, & 2017). All the other season-opening wins have been a mixed bag of low-hanging FBS fruit (East Carolina 2002, Florida International 2012, and Tulane 2015) or (theoretically) overmatched FCS opponents (Western Carolina 1998, James Madison 2008, Elon 2010 & 2014).
So, when it comes to this particular "streak," maybe...glass houses and all that. I'd rather just let 4 wins over unc in the past 6 seasons do the talking.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Good call out. I believe our last opening day win vs. P5 was my Freshman year vs. Maryland (1994-1995) in Fred Goldsmith's one miracle season. Robert "Bowling Ball" Baldwin rumbled for 238 yards and 4 TD's on a rainy Saturday afternoon.

To be fair, we really haven't played that many P5 opponents on opening weekend during the last 20 years (I counted 3 since 1998, all in conference opponents, and the most recent was around 15 years ago).

http://www.goduke.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&SPID=1843&SPSID=22666&q_season=1994&conf_school_id=

Can anyone explain that season? It was a true outlier. Nothing resembling it right before or right after. Tough to peak in your very first game as head coach.

[Reilly]

Can anyone explain that season? It was a true outlier. Nothing resembling it right before or right after. Tough to peak in your very first game as head coach.

Maybe older talent assembled during the glow of the Spurrier years, and excellent coordinators (OC went on to be NFL OC; DC current Wyoming coach).

[PackMan97]

Last for Duke looks like 1994 over Maryland: http://www.goduke.com/fls/4200/media-guides/football/2018/Year-by-Year.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=4200

I was curious about State's record as well.

Our last successful P5 opener was Indiana in 2001.

We also beat Texas to open 1999 and beat Syracuse to open 1997 (but the same question applies, back in they day would the Big East be considered P5 equivalent? I think so).

Carolina seems to be a favorite to lose against as we did in 2017, 2009 and 2008.

[UVa1981]

In the spirit of this thread, I went back and looked at Virginia's 20-year record (knowing that I could discard the Mike London results) and found the following:

2017 – W – non-P-5
2016 – L – non-P-5
2015 – L – P-5 (UCLA)
2014 – L – P-5 (UCLA)
2013 – W – non-P-5 (but BYU, a more than respectable team)
2012 – W – non-P-5
2011 – W – non-P-5
2010 – W – non-P-5
2009 – L – non-P-5
2008 – L -P-5
2007 – L – non-P-5
2006 – L – P-5
2005 – W – non-P-5
2004 – W – P-5? (Temple, then of the Big East)
2003 – W – P-5
2002 – L – non-P-5
2001 – L – P-5
2000 – L – non-P-5
1999 – W – P-5
1998 – W – P-5

W-L against P-5: 4-5 (depending about how you classify the Big East or BYU—I’ve got BYU as non-P-5 for the purposes of this exercise, the Big East as P-5, which, with Miami, Pitt, and Virginia Tech as members seems appropriate—against which Virginia is 1-1 in the relevant span. Ditto Colorado State).

W-L against non-P-5: 6-5. Overall 10-10.

A lot of Virginia’s non-P-5 openers were against in-staters William & Mary and Richmond. I have nothing against scheduling those games; both W&M and UR look forward to those games for the exposure and they’re—well—Virginia schools.

A number of the non-P-5 openers were against reputable football teams (BYU, Colorado State, and Wyoming). I have nothing against scheduling such teams either; they raise your level of play.

On the other hand, we also scheduled UCLA and USC for openers, which I find mystifying. It’s not like our coaches had West Coast connections that could be exploited for recruiting purposes. My understanding is that the administration wanted to raise its “national” exposure. Groan. Why not develop some real football muscle before flying the team all the way across the country?

The Mike London losses in the non-P-5 openers are the ones that really sting. That was such a dreary period of futility.

All in all, this has been interesting. I had no idea about UNC’s relative opening day futility until I stumbled across the article. And I would have guessed Duke would have a better record, simply because Cutcliffe is the sort of coach from whom I would expect a helluva game plan when you give him a whole off-season to think about it.

In any event, any article that reminds of Matt Doherty running that modified four corners is too good to take a pass on.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Maybe older talent assembled during the glow of the Spurrier years, and excellent coordinators (OC went on to be NFL OC; DC current Wyoming coach).

I think you're onto something.....nice context info on the OC and DC.......so they went on to bigger and better things while poor Fred became a farmer in Bahama and got in trouble over a female place kicker.

[cato]

Can we have one catch-all thread for UNC topics, please? So that we can burn it down and sow salt in its fields ignore it if we choose?

[jimsumner]

Can anyone explain that season? It was a true outlier. Nothing resembling it right before or right after. Tough to peak in your very first game as head coach.

Losing Heimerdinger and Bohl was a killer.


Goldsmith's last Duke team (1998) was 4-4, with three winnable games left.

Duke lost at Vanderbilt in double OT and barely bothered in season-ending losses to Maryland and UNC.

Goldsmith always argued that that team was set up for a big run in 1999 and he should have been given the chance.

He certainly couldn't have done any worse than Carl Franks. An absolutely disastrous hire.

Miami fired Dennis Erickson after the 1994 season and word on the street is that Goldsmith turned them down.

Can I have a mulligan on that one? Pretty please?

Butch Davis got the job instead.

[DU82]

I wasn't aware of this, but apparently the author--a UNC alumnus--is intensely so: for 21 years UNC hasn't won a season opener against a Power 5 team (season-opening wins over non-Power 5 teams don't count and, thus, extend the streak: https://www.wralsportsfan.com/heels-season-opening-struggles-are-nothing-new/17819982/.

Interestingly, the writer tosses in, as a small lagniappe, the UNC loss, led by Matt Doherty, to Duke in the first round of the 2002 ACC basketball tournament. The four corners reference is almost precious.

Sure, come on a Duke board posting something like this. I bet you expect a bunch of sporks for this, too.

(OK, it worked for me! :o )