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peteandpete
08-24-2018, 12:03 PM
Somebody had to do it! So go.

sagegrouse
08-24-2018, 12:16 PM
Somebody had to do it! So go.

Big test -- the Cadets kicked our butt last year, leading 21-10 at the half en route to a 21-16 victory. The loss seemed to wake us up, and we finished the season with three wins.

Are we ripe for another upset? I wouldn't rule it out. The service academies play with a great deal of emotion, and I anticipate a struggle next Friday.

OldPhiKap
08-24-2018, 12:19 PM
You can say that again.

;-)

PDDuke85
08-24-2018, 12:26 PM
Big test -- the Cadets kicked our butt last year, leading 21-10 at the half en route to a 21-16 victory. The loss seemed to wake us up, and we finished the season with three wins.

Are we ripe for another upset? I wouldn't rule it out. The service academies play with a great deal of emotion, and I anticipate a struggle next Friday.

Agree that the service academies will give maximum effort.
why I like Duke next Friday:
A healthy Daniel Jones will be playing this time. It was a pathetically anemic offense that Army saw last year.

The Duke defense plays really well against the triple option, and Army will be moving on without Ahmad Bradshaw.

I like Duke BIG in this one.

OldPhiKap
08-24-2018, 12:31 PM
FWIW, a preview predicting Duke 27-17 but not covering a 13.5 point spread:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/collegefootballnews.com/2018/08/army-vs-duke-fearless-prediction-game-preview/amp

sagegrouse
08-24-2018, 12:46 PM
You can say that again.

;-)

Well, I did change a period to a question mark!

OldPhiKap
08-24-2018, 12:57 PM
Well, I did change a period to a question mark!

I have known you to be punctual, although I thought that meant something different . . . .

This should be a great test of our defense, and would love to see Humphreys and Giles-Harris start racking up the tackle stats.

Get ahead, make Army have to start passing, wear 'em down. Let's Go DUKE!!!!!

budwom
08-24-2018, 01:07 PM
Army has a new QB and three or four (depending on how you look at it) new OL....13.5 pt favorites seems about right, game is in Derm, lads should be looking for a bit of payback (as will NW in Evanston the following week). Bottom line: struggling in this game will not be a good omen....not that Army is horrible, they' not, but they are uni-dimensional and frankly Duke has a lot more athletes. No excuses.

devildeac
08-24-2018, 01:19 PM
Well, I did change a period to a question mark!

And added scores!!

:rolleyes:

Bob Green
08-24-2018, 02:16 PM
No excuses.

Absolutely! The team needs to make a statement Friday night. I'm glad we are starting the season with a real opponent this year instead of NCCU. The last time was Tulane in 2015.

Vegas has Duke favored by 13.5 points with the Over/Under at 46. I say Duke covers with a 31 - 17 victory.

This blog (http://blogs.hudsonvalley.com/west-point-army-football/) contains some information on Army practice and scrimmages.

swiseman
08-24-2018, 02:17 PM
Duke's been in full Army prep mode for a week now. Held a controlled scrimmage Wednesday night going against the Army scout defense and offense.

Here's some fresh content on the Blue Devils offense and the quest to improve the passing game. Some intel on the WRs, looking at the three freshmen. Bobo is the leader among the group but Smith and Garner are opening eyes too

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article217244045.html

devildeac
08-24-2018, 03:19 PM
Duke's been in full Army prep mode for a week now. Held a controlled scrimmage Wednesday night going against the Army scout defense and offense.

Here's some fresh content on the Blue Devils offense and the quest to improve the passing game. Some intel on the WRs, looking at the three freshmen. Bobo is the leader among the group but Smith and Garner are opening eyes too

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article217244045.html

Thanks again for sharing, Steve! More good info for us to digest.

Avvocato
08-24-2018, 03:47 PM
From a few weeks ago, another Duke-Army preview from College Football News: https://collegefootballnews.com/2018/08/army-vs-duke-fearless-prediction-game-preview

Their prediction: Duke 27, Army 17

As stated above, we want to set a tone for the season. Control both lines, establish our run, be efficient in our passing game, and take control of the game. Let's not let Army feel like they have a chance at the upset. Let's keep turnovers and mistakes to a minimum, play our game, get a lead, and make them have to catch up. Unless their new quarterback is an undiscovered gem, i don't anticipate us being surprised by anything Army throws at us. Let's take care of business and get this training running. Can't wait.

peloton
08-24-2018, 04:22 PM
I want to see us establish the running the game by dominating in the trenches and opening up some nice holes for Mr. Brown, Deon Jackson, and Co. Also, I really want (and expect) to see the receivers step up their game starting with Army. Last but certainly not least, I hope our punt and kickoff returns are much improved. I hope that's not asking for too much...I don't think it is.

I'm so psyched for this home opener and night game against a more formidable opponent. Nothing against our Bull City neighbors NCCU, but it's definitely to our advantage to be a bit more battle hardened after the first game. Go Blue Devils!

Bob Green
08-24-2018, 04:53 PM
Johnathan Lloyd, Ben Humphreys, Joe Giles-Harris and Daniel Jones:

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22672&SPID=1843&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211769350&DB_OEM_ID=4200


Duke head football coach David Cutcliffe announced Friday the naming of Joe Giles-Harris, Ben Humphreys, Daniel Jones and Johnathan Lloyd as team captains for the 2018 season. The four returning lettermen were elected by their teammates.

Kimist
08-24-2018, 07:07 PM
I want to see us establish the running the game by dominating in the trenches and opening up some nice holes for Mr. Brown, Deon Jackson, and Co. Also, I really want (and expect) to see the receivers step up their game starting with Army. Last but certainly not least, I hope our punt and kickoff returns are much improved. I hope that's not asking for too much...I don't think it is.

I'm so psyched for this home opener and night game against a more formidable opponent. Nothing against our Bull City neighbors NCCU, but it's definitely to our advantage to be a bit more battle hardened after the first game. Go Blue Devils!

FWIW, the opponent for Duke's homecoming game on Sept 22nd is. . .NCCU.

k

chrishoke
08-24-2018, 07:32 PM
Johnathan Lloyd, Ben Humphreys, Joe Giles-Harris and Daniel Jones:

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22672&SPID=1843&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211769350&DB_OEM_ID=4200

Love these choices. Stay healthy guys.

Acymetric
08-24-2018, 07:37 PM
So we got our tickets for the "Durham Special" but don't see anything referencing the meal voucher...does anyone have any insight?

Acymetric
08-24-2018, 07:48 PM
So we got our tickets for the "Durham Special" but don't see anything referencing the meal voucher...does anyone have any insight?

To answer my own question, the vouchers can be picked up at will call before the game. :)

Bob Green
08-26-2018, 09:17 AM
Army names Kelvin Hopkins starting QB:

http://blogs.hudsonvalley.com/west-point-army-football/


Hopkins get nod: Monken said junior quarterback Kelvin Hopkins will start in the season opener at Duke Friday. “He’s the guy,” Monken said. “He’s made some mistakes. He’s going to be some more as he plays and as he gets accustomed to being the guy. He’s taken care of the ball pretty well. We’re trying to get him to not to force any throws. He’s got a really good arm and he’s got to just take care of the ball and eliminate negative yardage plays. Part of that is if he’s going to throw it, he’s got to get rid it and not throw it to the other team and not get sacked.”

CameronBornAndBred
08-26-2018, 02:48 PM
Army names Kelvin Hopkins starting QB:

Part of that is if he’s going to throw it, he’s got to get rid it and not throw it to the other team and not get sacked.
http://blogs.hudsonvalley.com/west-point-army-football/

I'm up for seeing plenty of both.

peloton
08-26-2018, 03:46 PM
We’re trying to get him to not to force any throws. He’s got a really good arm and he’s got to just take care of the ball and eliminate negative yardage plays. Part of that is if he’s going to throw it, he’s got to get rid it and not throw it to the other team and not get sacked.”

Paging Mr. Gilbert and Mr. Dimukeje.

peloton
08-26-2018, 04:13 PM
FWIW, the opponent for Duke's homecoming game on Sept 22nd is. . .NCCU.

k

Understood; however, don't you want to increase the chances of our winning the homecoming game? :D My point earlier was that I don't really think opening with someone like NCCU is in our best interest - just my opinion.

budwom
08-26-2018, 04:20 PM
Understood; however, don't you want to increase the chances of our winning the homecoming game? :D My point earlier was that I don't really think opening with someone like NCCU is in our best interest - just my opinion.

yeah, I'm fine with us playing NCCU (we get a win and bit if not much local goodwill) but I'd much rather open with a tougher opponent to gauge where we are as a team...

Reilly
08-26-2018, 06:37 PM
Army names Kelvin Hopkins starting QB:

http://blogs.hudsonvalley.com/west-point-army-football/

From Charlotte's Independence H.S.: https://goarmywestpoint.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=12884&path=football

Charlotte Latin v. Independence Friday night in Durham ...

rtnorthrup
08-26-2018, 07:02 PM
I may have my Duke Blue tinted glasses firmly on, but I would be very surprised to see Army score more than 14 points in this game, and would NOT be at all surprised to see us hold them to fewer than 10. Duke had a disastrous first quarter and a half against Army last year, including a blocked punt that Army returned for a TD, and still Army only managed 21 points and roughly 270 total yards of offense last year. They will be hard pressed to replace the talent of A. Bradshaw, while our Defense is probably stronger this season, and certainly less banged up at this point in the season.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
08-26-2018, 08:13 PM
From Charlotte's Independence H.S.: https://goarmywestpoint.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=12884&path=football

Charlotte Latin v. Independence Friday night in Durham ...

Woot! Go Big I!

OldPhiKap
08-27-2018, 11:18 AM
Just noticed that Northwestern kicks of this Thursday at Purdue as a field goal underdog. Good chance to see what is coming up the following week!!!

du_bb1
08-27-2018, 11:57 AM
Parking question--how tight are they about not opening iron Duke lots 'till 5:o'clock ?

budwom
08-27-2018, 12:26 PM
Just noticed that Northwestern kicks of this Thursday at Purdue as a field goal underdog. Good chance to see what is coming up the following week!!!

NW has us pencilled in as a W right now, at least the fans do...I'll be watching Perdu (sic) to see how that goes.

mattman91
08-27-2018, 01:48 PM
Woot! Go Big I!

If I didn't personally know and like you I'd give you a flaming turd for that.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
08-27-2018, 01:50 PM
If I didn't personally know and like you I'd give you a flaming turd for that.

I am a proud alumnus.

Long ago enough that I find it wildly amusing that people say "oh, Independence High School? You guys are really good at football, right?"

We were embarrassingly bad when I was there.

mattman91
08-27-2018, 02:22 PM
I am a proud alumnus.

Long ago enough that I find it wildly amusing that people say "oh, Independence High School? You guys are really good at football, right?"

We were embarrassingly bad when I was there.

My parents graduated from Richmond Senior High in Rockingham. They used to have a bit of a playoff rivalry back in the early to mid 2000s IIRC. I saw Chris Leak absolutely dominate them one year - what a show that was.

peloton
08-27-2018, 02:36 PM
NW has us pencilled in as a W right now, at least the fans do...I'll be watching Perdu (sic) to see how that goes.

You mean the Perdue Broilermakers? They're a fowl bunch.

budwom
08-27-2018, 04:41 PM
You mean the Perdue Broilermakers? They're a fowl bunch.

No, but close; they're the Perdu Boilermakers, lost on the gridiron (voila)!

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
08-27-2018, 04:44 PM
My parents graduated from Richmond Senior High in Rockingham. They used to have a bit of a playoff rivalry back in the early to mid 2000s IIRC. I saw Chris Leak absolutely dominate them one year - what a show that was.

Chris Leak went on to win a national championship with Florida.

Richmond Sr. High was always a powerhouse.

In a half-hearted attempt to come back to topic, LET'S GO DUKE!

OZZIE4DUKE
08-27-2018, 05:06 PM
Parking question--how tight are they about not opening iron Duke lots 'till 5:o'clock ?

Don't have a real answer yet. Unofficially, I was told the parking nazi's would start letting folks in after 4. I'm waiting to hear back, hopefully tomorrow morning. http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

devildeac
08-27-2018, 05:07 PM
Don't have a real answer yet. Unofficially, I was told the parking nazi's would start letting folks in after 4. I'm waiting to hear back, hopefully tomorrow morning. http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

That'd be great, Ozzie! Please keep us informed.

CDu
08-28-2018, 11:40 AM
CDu and CDu Jr are looking forward to the season opener! Well, at least the first quarter of the season opener before CDu Jr has to head home to get ready for bed. :)

OZZIE4DUKE
08-28-2018, 01:36 PM
Don't have a real answer yet. Unofficially, I was told the parking nazi's would start letting folks in after 4. I'm waiting to hear back, hopefully tomorrow morning. http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

Here's what I was just told 10 minutes ago (Tuesday afternoon). Parking lots officially open at 5 pm. Attendants will be manning the gates starting about 2 pm, and depending on space being available, they will let people in to park. :cool: Let's hope this info turns out to be correct! I'll take back all the bad things I've been saying about "them" and won't call them parking nazis anymore. http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

budwom
08-28-2018, 01:42 PM
^ in the past they have been not so much "nazis" as just totally inefficient and oblivious....in all of my years of parking off Wannamaker Drive (blue lots?) I can recall dozens of instances of monumental incompetence and obliviousness. Training did not seem to be something that was conducted with the staff, people were just given vests and cones and unleashed on the public. Logic had no role in what went on...

Acymetric
08-28-2018, 01:52 PM
^ in the past they have been not so much "nazis" as just totally inefficient and oblivious...in all of my years of parking off Wannamaker Drive (blue lots?) I can recall dozens of instances of monumental incompetence and obliviousness. Training did not seem to be something that was conducted with the staff, people were just given vests and cones and unleashed on the public. Logic had no role in what went on...

My dad and I were many times (for years) turned away from our Iron Dukes lot (Card) because according to the event staff we were not allowed to turn down the only road with access to the Card lot (a friend actually quit coming to games over a similar snafu something like 5 or 6 years ago and has yet to return). They did finally start to get it right most of the time...eventually.

-jk
08-28-2018, 02:08 PM
My dad and I were many times (for years) turned away from our Iron Dukes lot (Card) because according to the event staff we were not allowed to turn down the only road with access to the Card lot (a friend actually quit coming to games over a similar snafu something like 5 or 6 years ago and has yet to return). They did finally start to get it right most of the time...eventually.

If only Duke had access to a good civil engineer, perhaps one with experience in congestion management on a statewide level...

-jk

devildeac
08-28-2018, 02:18 PM
Here's what I was just told 10 minutes ago (Tuesday afternoon). Parking lots officially open at 5 pm. Attendants will be manning the gates starting about 2 pm, and depending on space being available, they will let people in to park. :cool: Let's hope this info turns out to be correct! I'll take back all the bad things I've been saying about "them" and won't call them parking nazis anymore. http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

Good info. Thanks for the update! Hopefully, spaces will be readily available well before 5 PM and common sense and/or intelligence will be at the forefront.
But, I also realize who we're dealing with in this situation. :rolleyes:

budwom
08-28-2018, 02:50 PM
My dad and I were many times (for years) turned away from our Iron Dukes lot (Card) because according to the event staff we were not allowed to turn down the only road with access to the Card lot (a friend actually quit coming to games over a similar snafu something like 5 or 6 years ago and has yet to return). They did finally start to get it right most of the time...eventually.

So easy to believe. I (somewhat) long for the days decades ago when the entire parking and traffic stuff was handled by literally dozens of North Carolina state troopers...(at least the trains ran on time).
Every year brings a new treat these days. A couple years ago they outdid themselves, with a two lane traffic flow up Wannamaker which Franz Kafka would have admired, it was like throwing five pounds of bubblegum into a blender.

devildeac
08-28-2018, 03:01 PM
So easy to believe. I (somewhat) long for the days decades ago when the entire parking and traffic stuff was handled by literally dozens of North Carolina state troopers...(at least the trains ran on time).
Every year brings a new treat these days. A couple years ago they outdid themselves, with a two lane traffic flow up Wannamaker which Franz Kafka would have admired, it was like throwing five pounds of bubblegum into a blender.

Bring a couple beers by our tent and we'll tell you the Hurricane Matthew story before the 2016 Duke-Army slogfest. :mad:

Reilly
08-28-2018, 03:54 PM
Here are the notes: http://www.goduke.com/pdf9/5475853.pdf

Bob Green
08-28-2018, 04:07 PM
I was on I-85 several times in early summer and the construction was still ongoing. Does anyone reading this football thread have an update? Has the number of miles of construction lessened significantly or am I still looking at ~ 15 miles of one lane traffic between VA/NC border and U.S. 1 exit?

budwom
08-28-2018, 04:12 PM
Bring a couple beers by our tent and we'll tell you the Hurricane Matthew story before the 2016 Duke-Army slogfest. :mad:

I'm been trying to get by your tent forever, but the fiends at ESPN keep scheduling us noon games, and my flight usually gets in around 10:30 leaving insufficient time for imbibements. There ought to be a law.

jjredickrules
08-28-2018, 04:27 PM
I was on I-85 several times in early summer and the construction was still ongoing. Does anyone reading this football thread have an update? Has the number of miles of construction lessened significantly or am I still looking at ~ 15 miles of one lane traffic between VA/NC border and U.S. 1 exit?

As of a couple weeks ago when heading 85 South, I still saw plenty of construction in that stretch. I actually recall a few mile respite, then return to 1 lane. You'll probably be behind someone going ~45mph at some point as well, but overall I don't think it will add too much time to the commute. It's more annoying than inconvenient.

OZZIE4DUKE
08-28-2018, 04:58 PM
^ in the past they have been not so much "nazis" as just totally inefficient and oblivious...in all of my years of parking off Wannamaker Drive (blue lots?) I can recall dozens of instances of monumental incompetence and obliviousness. Training did not seem to be something that was conducted with the staff, people were just given vests and cones and unleashed on the public. Logic had no role in what went on...


Bring a couple beers by our tent and we'll tell you the Hurricane Matthew story before the 2016 Duke-Army slogfest. :mad:
As dd and I well know, the parking lot police officers who worked the Hurricane Matthew game earned the moniker many times over. One tent in the Card Gym lot (ours), about a dozen attendees, 4 cars in the parking lot, driving rain and 40+mph winds and some "officer" came by and told us to move our cars because we didn't have parking passes. The ultimate parking nazi. Well beyond inefficient and oblivious. Kevin White and Jack Winters heard all about it during halftime of a game in Cameron later that winter. It was, admittedly, better last year than in 2016.

cato
08-28-2018, 09:00 PM
Here are the notes: http://www.goduke.com/pdf9/5475853.pdf

Ben Swain tweets:


From Duke’s game notes … Duke enters the 2018 season with an all time record of 503-517-31.

When Cutcliffe gets the program back above .500, it will be the single greatest accomplishment in college football history. Don’t @ me.

Wow. I had not been tracking this.

Reilly
08-28-2018, 09:07 PM
In this 1,052nd game of Duke football, would be nice to have a palindromic capacity crowd of 40,004.

So Coach K has won more games than Duke FB has played ... is that b/c the refs schedule all the games?

Acymetric
08-28-2018, 09:07 PM
Ben Swain tweets:

Wow. I had not been tracking this.


From Duke’s game notes … Duke enters the 2018 season with an all time record of 503-517-31.

When Cutcliffe gets the program back above .500, it will be the single greatest accomplishment in college football history. Don’t @ me.

Very cool, I had not been tracking either. Should happen in 2019 if things are going reasonably well. If things go really well, January 2019. :cool:

DU82
08-28-2018, 09:24 PM
If only Duke had access to a good civil engineer, perhaps one with experience in congestion management on a statewide level...

-jk

Things would be a lot worse if that person hadn’t consulted (for no fee) with the operations staff a few years ago. While some don’t like that they are forced to turn only one way out of some lots, overall the scheme is much better that way.

The issue with the parking people is that they are guns for hire, as Duke farmed out that part of game day management. I have no idea how much trying they get. (I can guess, though.)

DU82
08-28-2018, 09:38 PM
I was on I-85 several times in early summer and the construction was still ongoing. Does anyone reading this football thread have an update? Has the number of miles of construction lessened significantly or am I still looking at ~ 15 miles of one lane traffic between VA/NC border and U.S. 1 exit?

There’s two sections still under construction, both in the NB lanes, but traffic has been shifted to the completed SB side (one lane in each direction.)

The larger section is between exits 213 and 233. That’s scheduled for completion in November (Thanksgiving.)

The shorter section is from exit 233 to the state line, which is roughly a mile. When I went through earlier this month, that section looked fairly close to completion, but I believe the schedule is still November.

For up to date traffic information, check the NCDOT traffic incident management system (TIMS)
https://tims.ncdot.gov/tims/

brevity
08-29-2018, 02:09 AM
An Off-Topic thread inspired me to look up Army-Duke program covers (https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dfp?_=1535522240905&f%5Bcategory_facet_sim%5D%5B%5D=Army) of the past.

8607

October 7, 1989: one week after the Clemson upset. Duke 35, Army 29.

The programs they have from the 1940s and 1950s are pretty sharp, but Duke didn't win those games.

HereBeforeCoachK
08-29-2018, 07:09 AM
The issue with the parking people is that they are guns for hire, as Duke farmed out that part of game day management. I have no idea how much trying they get. (I can guess, though.)

As it turns out, back in the early 2000s, I had a company that was a maintenance vendor for some parking areas at Duke and Duke Medical Center. I was astounded how many of the townie employees at Duke were not Duke fans, many where Cheat fans, etc. The main people I dealt with...one was a S Carolina grad, and fan, and the other was a Penn State grad, and fan....all of this to say that there are people who work at Duke as merely a job, and they do not become Duke fans.

I don't know if this has relevance to some of the Barney Fife parking horror stories or not....but it popped into my mind.

budwom
08-29-2018, 07:12 AM
In this 1,052nd game of Duke football, would be nice to have a palindromic capacity crowd of 40,004.

So Coach K has won more games than Duke FB has played ... is that b/c the refs schedule all the games?

Speaking of which: I'm again surprised that Cut is again saying he doesn't like night games...well, he doesn't like small crowds either (who does?)...and if Army were a broiling noon game on Saturday, I can promise that the crowd wouldn't be very big no matter how many tickets they disperse. If we start winning, TV will want us for some of the later games (e.g. 3:30)...hope Cut could somehow adapt to that.

OldPhiKap
08-29-2018, 07:38 AM
Speaking of which: I'm again surprised that Cut is again saying he doesn't like night games...well, he doesn't like small crowds either (who does?)...and if Army were a broiling noon game on Saturday, I can promise that the crowd wouldn't be very big no matter how many tickets they disperse. If we start winning, TV will want us for some of the later games (e.g. 3:30)...hope Cut could somehow adapt to that.

Is he saying that he does not like night games, or that he does not like Friday night games which is the slot for HS football? I have not heard the former, but have him say the latter for years.

budwom
08-29-2018, 07:42 AM
Is he saying that he does not like night games, or that he does not like Friday night games which is the slot for HS football? I have not heard the former, but have him say the latter for years.

he has said both...doesn't like sitting around waiting for the later game time. As far as the overlap between Duke fans and NC high school fans, I just don't see it as being much of a factor.

OldPhiKap
08-29-2018, 07:45 AM
he has said both...doesn't like sitting around waiting for the later game time. As far as the overlap between Duke fans and NC high school fans, I just don't see it as being much of a factor.

I always thought he said it more as a nod to the HS coaches (who are an important part of recruiting) than anything else.

devildeac
08-29-2018, 07:59 AM
Is he saying that he does not like night games, or that he does not like Friday night games which is the slot for HS football? I have not heard the former, but have him say the latter for years.

My take-away from Cut's comments was that he didn't particularly like the Friday night game as it conflicted with HS football.

Bob Green
08-29-2018, 08:00 AM
I always thought he said it more as a nod to the HS coaches (who are an important part of recruiting) than anything else.

He has definitely said both.

Last season, or the year before, I specifically remember Coach Cutcliffe answering a question about the number of noon starts by saying he preferred to play early because he did not like waiting around for a later start. The noon starts allow you to get up and get straight to business.

devildeac
08-29-2018, 08:01 AM
Steve Wiseman with a thorough scouting report of Army in the Raleigh News and Observer this AM:

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article217396335.html

HereBeforeCoachK
08-29-2018, 08:30 AM
...... Coach Cutcliffe answering a question about the number of noon starts : saying he preferred to play early because he did not like waiting around for a later start. The noon starts allow you to get up and get straight to business.

Well Cut is certainly correct in that it does allow you to get up and get straight to business.

But it does not allow time for many fans to get there. In the early season, it does not allow for comfortable playing, or spectating, conditions. And it does not allow for the fan base, those that wish to, to get appropriately lubricated....there's just something more energetic about a night game. Perhaps this is more true at LSU than anywhere else in college FB, but it's almost universal.

sagegrouse
08-29-2018, 08:41 AM
He has definitely said both.

Last season, or the year before, I specifically remember Coach Cutcliffe answering a question about the number of noon starts by saying he preferred to play early because he did not like waiting around for a later start. The noon starts allow you to get up and get straight to business.

I call this, "Making a virtue out of a necessity."

You hear a lot of this from coaches, such as, after an injury to a star player, "This gives us a chance to look at some of our younger talent." Or, "When X returns, we will end up a having a deeper, more experienced team."

OldPhiKap
08-29-2018, 09:02 AM
Jeff Monken is a really good coach, did a very good job at Georgia Southern during his stint there.

Army plays tough and smart.

But it's our house.

Only 58 hours to go!!!!!!

GopherBlue
08-29-2018, 10:03 AM
But it does not allow time for many fans to get there. In the early season, it does not allow for comfortable playing, or spectating, conditions. And it does not allow for the fan base, those that wish to, to get appropriately lubricated...there's just something more energetic about a night game. Perhaps this is more true at LSU than anywhere else in college FB, but it's almost universal.

I understand the player/coach perspective of early games being preferable, but from this fan's perspective, evening games are simply more enjoyable. Time for tailgating, avoiding heat of day, FB under the lights experience, etc all favor late-day games.

The predominance of early kick-off times is the primary reason I have not renewed my season tickets for the past 5-6 years. If Duke really wants to improve fan experience and increase attendance, schedule more evening games (to the extent that Duke has this influence, which admittedly is probably very little).

budwom
08-29-2018, 11:02 AM
I guess perhaps the most surprising thing about Cut's sentiment is that we're going to get, what, 10x the viewership on TV, Friday night on an ESPN station, vs what we would have gotten as a noonish game among a zillion others on Saturday (on the ACC network) ?? Just the exposure alone should be worth 100 times the inconvenience of stepping on HS football's toes. This is a major, major publicity plus.

OldPhiKap
08-29-2018, 11:09 AM
I guess perhaps the most surprising thing about Cut's sentiment is that we're going to get, what, 10x the viewership on TV, Friday night on an ESPN station, vs what we would have gotten as a noonish game among a zillion others on Saturday (on the ACC network) ?? Just the exposure alone should be worth 100 times the inconvenience of stepping on HS football's toes. This is a major, major publicity plus.

In the interview I saw on GoDuke.com, Cut did reference the increased exposure as a plus.

HereBeforeCoachK
08-29-2018, 12:22 PM
I guess perhaps the most surprising thing about Cut's sentiment is that we're going to get, what, 10x the viewership on TV, Friday night on an ESPN station, vs what we would have gotten as a noonish game among a zillion others on Saturday (on the ACC network) ?? Just the exposure alone should be worth 100 times the inconvenience of stepping on HS football's toes. This is a major, major publicity plus.

You are right, and I bet Cut knows it....but he recruits HS players and has to make that statement....and it's not dishonest, because I do think he genuinely dislikes that aspect of Friday night games.

Acymetric
08-29-2018, 12:38 PM
I guess perhaps the most surprising thing about Cut's sentiment is that we're going to get, what, 10x the viewership on TV, Friday night on an ESPN station, vs what we would have gotten as a noonish game among a zillion others on Saturday (on the ACC network) ?? Just the exposure alone should be worth 100 times the inconvenience of stepping on HS football's toes. This is a major, major publicity plus.


You are right, and I bet Cut knows it...but he recruits HS players and has to make that statement...and it's not dishonest, because I do think he genuinely dislikes that aspect of Friday night games.

Not picking on you two specifically, just picked two of the most recent examples from a fairly long stream of similar statements, but instead of reading way way way too much into a paraphrased sentiment from the press conference, let's look at what Cut has actually had to say about it, which renders a lot of this questioning/speculation moot.

David Cutcliffe:

“When ESPN asks you to play these games, you’re going to get good exposure. I don’t love playing Friday nights, when high-school football teams are playing. But we have television contracts and we are certainly going to follow through when we’re asked. I’m particularly excited because this is Labor Day weekend and that gives people a great opportunity to come to a football game Friday night and if they want to have Labor Day off to do something, they can.”

Acknowledges that a Friday night game can be positive for us, while making the obligatory statement saying he doesn't like conflicting with high-school football to appease the high-school football coaches who were (still are?) majorly opposed to Friday college games when ESPN started scheduling them. Seems Cut is pretty much in line with the rest of us here, he has to walk a line because if he comes out all pumped up over a Friday football slot he is guaranteed to get grief from at least some, and perhaps many high school coaches that he needs relationships with to recruit. I think we can let this one go.

Reilly
08-29-2018, 01:14 PM
... I think we can let this one go ...

You must be new to these parts.

Cut's son is a h.s. head coach (as was Cut). Cut has talked warmly many times of his Friday night lights playing days.

Bob Green
08-29-2018, 02:58 PM
Army press conference clip:

https://goarmywestpoint.com/news/2018/8/28/football-jeff-monken-press-conference-quotes-duke.aspx


With our offense, they play Georgia Tech every year. They have a plan. They do a really good job defending the option. Not only scheming it, but executing it on the field.

chrishoke
08-29-2018, 03:26 PM
White helmet with blue jerseys and pants for the Army game.

Bob Green
08-29-2018, 03:37 PM
White helmet with blue jerseys and pants for the Army game.

Duke in script on side of helmet.

HereBeforeCoachK
08-29-2018, 03:45 PM
Duke in script on side of helmet.

That's my favorite combination of all of them......(I still wish Duke could develop at least one of those real shiny helmets...in silver....Wake's shiny gold helmets are awesome.)

peloton
08-29-2018, 03:47 PM
Duke in script on side of helmet.

I have always loved the Duke script helmets - would love to see us wear them much more often. Go Devils!

TruBlu
08-29-2018, 03:52 PM
I have always loved the Duke script helmets - would love to see us wear them much more often. Go Devils!

They are nice - would like to see us wear them 15 times every year.

OldPhiKap
08-29-2018, 04:41 PM
Army press conference clip:

https://goarmywestpoint.com/news/2018/8/28/football-jeff-monken-press-conference-quotes-duke.aspx

I am a Jeff Monken fan, and there is obviously much to admire about the Service Acadamies.

I am of course pulling for Duke Friday, but after that I hope Army Rios off 10 straight wins. Will reserve rooting preference on Army-Navy until we get there.

CameronBornAndBred
08-29-2018, 06:19 PM
White helmet with blue jerseys and pants for the Army game.
Whew!

chrishoke
08-29-2018, 06:38 PM
DJ the hungriest guy on the team http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211769353&DB_OEM_ID=4200

Bob Green
08-29-2018, 06:57 PM
DJ the hungriest guy on the team http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211769353&DB_OEM_ID=4200

Two statements standout to me:


Inexperience and injuries notwithstanding, Jones racked up 5,527 passing yards, 1,004 rushing yards, and 44 touchdowns accounted for in his first two seasons. He’s ninth in Duke career passing.


“He has a business persona,” Roper says. “But he’s looser when he needs to be. He has more of a swag personality. He shows you what he wants to show you. He’s a veteran now. He’s seen a lot of things. He’s a very strong-willed person, very competitive.”

The inexperience is long gone. If Jones can stay healthy, he should rack up the passing and rushing statistics, and lead Duke to a very successful season.

48 Hours!

Reilly
08-29-2018, 09:33 PM
White helmet with blue jerseys and pants for the Army game.


Whew!

That's just for the players on the field ... who knows what'll happen with the playas in the stands ...

OldPhiKap
08-30-2018, 07:33 AM
Nice article by Jimsumner (redundant, I know) on our receivers:

https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2018/8/30/17798816/a-look-at-dukes-wide-receivers-blue-devils-football

Banana
08-30-2018, 12:55 PM
My 2018 Depth Chart has been updated to reflect developments that have occurred during the past three weeks, including the issuance of the official post-Summer Practice depth chart in the Army Game Notes at GoDuke. 8611 In case the attached chart, like the one I posted on August 4, won't open properly, I would appreciate jk working his magic again.

The most important changes on the offensive side are as follows: (1) It appears that Aaron Young will start over Chris Taylor (see Jim Sumner's article this morning) at the third wide receiver position, although both are listed as 1st team on the official depth chart. (2) True freshman Jake Bobo, after a very impressive Summer Practice, is now listed as a 2nd string wide receiver, and could be a budding star (but maybe I should wait until he catches his 1st college pass). (3) Nicky Dalmolin, a highly rated high school junior wide receiver, committed to Duke in March, 2018, but I just recently noticed that, so I have added him to my chart. (4) True freshman Casey Holman has moved over from the guard position and is now a 2nd string offensive tackle. Conversely, redshirt freshman Jacob Rimmer has moved over from the offensive tackle position and is now a 2nd string guard. (5) Coach Cut had nice things to say about huge true freshman guard Maurice McIntyre during Summer Practice, so I have added him to my chart, although he is not listed on the official depth chart. He is listed at 320 pounds on the official roster, but Coach Cut said he weights 340 pounds, and that would be consistent with his weight coming out of high school.

On the defensive side: (6) It appears that highly recruited sophomore Drew Jordan will start at defensive end over junior Tre Hornbuckle, although both are listed as 1st team on the official depth chart. (7) A 4th defensive end from the high school class of 2019 (Ahmad Craig) has committed to Duke. I have moved Christian Rorie to the top of the list of defensive end commits, because he has an impressive list of P5 offers, and has excellent height and weight for the position. (8) Trevon McSwain was moved from the defensive line to the offensive line early in Summer Practice, but was returned to the defensive line about 10 days later. It appears that Derrick Tangelo may start over McSwain, but both are listed as 1st team on the official depth chart. (9) Coach Cut had nice things to say about highly recruited true freshman Tahj Rice during Summer Practice. He is only listed as 3rd team for now, but the fact that he even made the official depth chart implies he will play this year. (10) Josh Blackwell and Michael Carter have passed Myles Hudzick for the second cornerback spot opposite projected All-American Mark Gilbert. In fact, Michael Carter was moved over from safety to shore up the cornerback position. (11) Redshirt freshman Leonard Johnson had an excellent Summer Practice, and is listed as a 2nd team safety on the official depth chart, alongside two other redshirt freshmen, Damani Neal and Lummie Young. Redshirt junior Jordan Hayes, who played 1st team safety most of last season, is also listed as a 2nd team safety on the official depth chart.


On special teams: (12) Colin Wareham held onto the 1st team FG kicker spot, but AJ Reed is now listed as his backup. (13) Austin Parker retook the 1st team punter spot from Jackson Hubbard. (14) For the first time in many years, Duke will segregate the kick snapping duties between a long snapper for punts (Ben Wyatt) and a short snapper for field goals (John Taylor).

The only three true freshmen listed on the official depth chart are the above-mentioned Jake Bobo, Casey Holman and Tahj Rice. I suspect one or two other true freshmen may play, especially if there are injuries, but it won't be anything like last year, when 10 true freshmen played. When you add the impressive redshirt freshmen who could have an impact this year (especially Marvin Hubbard, Jake Marwede, Josh Blackwell and Leonard Johnson), Duke's 2018 high school class is looking like it will be a huge upgrade to the program, even though it was only ranked number 62 nationally by 247Sports.

HereBeforeCoachK
08-30-2018, 01:02 PM
I am a Jeff Monken fan, and there is obviously much to admire about the Service Acadamies.

I am of course pulling for Duke Friday, but after that I hope Army Rios off 10 straight wins. Will reserve rooting preference on Army-Navy until we get there.

I happened to be in Boone for an App State Georgia Southern game in Monken's first year at GSU. The personnel he inherited was all wrong for his system, so his first year was a train wreck. The people at Ga Southern didn't like him that day.....I guess he won them over.

cato
08-30-2018, 02:10 PM
My 2018 Depth Chart has been updated to reflect developments that have occurred during the past three weeks, including the issuance of the official post-Summer Practice depth chart in the Army Game Notes at GoDuke. 8611 In case the attached chart, like the one I posted on August 4, won't open properly, I would appreciate jk working his magic again.

The most important changes on the offensive side are as follows: (1) It appears that Aaron Young will start over Chris Taylor (see Jim Sumner's article this morning) at the third wide receiver position, although both are listed as 1st team on the official depth chart. (2) True freshman Jake Bobo, after a very impressive Summer Practice, is now listed as a 2nd string wide receiver, and could be a budding star (but maybe I should wait until he catches his 1st college pass). (3) Nicky Dalmolin, a highly rated high school junior wide receiver, committed to Duke in March, 2018, but I just recently noticed that, so I have added him to my chart. (4) True freshman Casey Holman has moved over from the guard position and is now a 2nd string offensive tackle. Conversely, redshirt freshman Jacob Rimmer has moved over from the offensive tackle position and is now a 2nd string guard. (5) Coach Cut had nice things to say about huge true freshman guard Maurice McIntyre during Summer Practice, so I have added him to my chart, although he is not listed on the official depth chart. He is listed at 320 pounds on the official roster, but Coach Cut said he weights 340 pounds, and that would be consistent with his weight coming out of high school.

On the defensive side: (6) It appears that highly recruited sophomore Drew Jordan will start at defensive end over junior Tre Hornbuckle, although both are listed as 1st team on the official depth chart. (7) A 4th defensive end from the high school class of 2019 (Ahmad Craig) has committed to Duke. I have moved Christian Rorie to the top of the list of defensive end commits, because he has an impressive list of P5 offers, and has excellent height and weight for the position. (8) Trevon McSwain was moved from the defensive line to the offensive line early in Summer Practice, but was returned to the defensive line about 10 days later. It appears that Derrick Tangelo may start over McSwain, but both are listed as 1st team on the official depth chart. (9) Coach Cut had nice things to say about highly recruited true freshman Tahj Rice during Summer Practice. He is only listed as 3rd team for now, but the fact that he even made the official depth chart implies he will play this year. (10) Josh Blackwell and Michael Carter have passed Myles Hudzick for the second cornerback spot opposite projected All-American Mark Gilbert. In fact, Michael Carter was moved over from safety to shore up the cornerback position. (11) Redshirt freshman Leonard Johnson had an excellent Summer Practice, and is listed as a 2nd team safety on the official depth chart, alongside two other redshirt freshmen, Damani Neal and Lummie Young. Redshirt junior Jordan Hayes, who played 1st team safety most of last season, is also listed as a 2nd team safety on the official depth chart.


On special teams: (12) Colin Wareham held onto the 1st team FG kicker spot, but AJ Reed is now listed as his backup. (13) Austin Parker retook the 1st team punter spot from Jackson Hubbard. (14) For the first time in many years, Duke will segregate the kick snapping duties between a long snapper for punts (Ben Wyatt) and a short snapper for field goals (John Taylor).

The only three true freshmen listed on the official depth chart are the above-mentioned Jake Bobo, Casey Holman and Tahj Rice. I suspect one or two other true freshmen may play, especially if there are injuries, but it won't be anything like last year, when 10 true freshmen played. When you add the impressive redshirt freshmen who could have an impact this year (especially Marvin Hubbard, Jake Marwede, Josh Blackwell and Leonard Johnson), Duke's 2018 high school class is looking like it will be a huge upgrade to the program, even though it was only ranked number 62 nationally by 247Sports.

Great stuff. If you are going to update this periodically (and I hope you do), can I suggest a separate/dedicated thread?

Banana
08-30-2018, 02:14 PM
Yes, I will be updating this weekly throughout the season. I agree that a dedicated thread would be a good idea.

By the way, I got the recruiting class years confused in the last paragraph of my 12:55 pm post. Our excellent true sophomores and redshirt freshmen came from the 2017 recruiting class, rather than the 2018 recruiting class. Duke's 2017 recruiting class finished 47th nationally in the 247Sports ranking, which is considerably better than the 62th national ranking of our 2018 class. The main problem with our 2018 class was its small size (16 recruits) compared to the 22 recruits each in the 2016 and 2017 classes, because the average rating per recruit in 2018 (.8574) was actually higher than the average rating per recruit in 2017 (.8490), all according to 247Sports. I think our 2017 class is already outperforming that relatively low average rating per recruit, which just goes to show, once again, that Coach Cut knows a lot more than the recruiting services.


Our highest rated recent class was 2016 (33rd nationally), which consisted of a fairly large class (22 recruits) with a high average rating per recruit (.8604). That class includes Mark Gilbert, Brittain Brown, Dylan Singleton, Julian Santos, Robert Kraeling, Tre Hornbuckle, Koby Quansah and Brandon Hill, among others. Not too shabby!

richmclean
08-30-2018, 03:10 PM
A legend for the coloring would help us old guys remember what they mean. Thx.

jacone21
08-30-2018, 04:17 PM
I happened to be in Boone for an App State Georgia Southern game in Monken's first year at GSU. The personnel he inherited was all wrong for his system, so his first year was a train wreck. The people at Ga Southern didn't like him that day...I guess he won them over.

I'm not sure you're remembering correctly. Georgia Southern beat App State in Statesboro in Monken's first season, although he did lose in Boone a couple of times.

Succeeding Chris Hatcher, Monken brought back the beloved triple option and turned things around through recruiting and leadership. He led GS to the FCS semifinals the first three years he coached, but could never get past the semis. His crowning achievement was the win against Florida in his last year, and Georgia Southern's last year in FCS. He left for Army after that season.

The next year GS moved up to FBS, hired Willie Fritz, led the nation in rushing, and ran the table in the Sunbelt conference. Most GS fans give Monken a lot of credit for the 2 great years under Fritz, since his recruits were a big part of that success. He's very fondly remembered in Statesboro, and most fans are proud of, and not at all surprised by, his success an Army.

On the other end of the spectrum, the coach that followed Fritz (whose name I won't type) was an utter disaster who led GS into their worst stretch of the modern era. Eagle football has never been lower. This season, there's a new coaching staff, new optimism, and we're hoping for a major turnaround. We'll see.

Anyway, the Devils need to bring it Friday night, because Monken and Army certainly will.

Bob Green
08-30-2018, 05:20 PM
Nice article by Jimsumner (redundant, I know) on our receivers:

https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2018/8/30/17798816/a-look-at-dukes-wide-receivers-blue-devils-football

Several good tidbits gleaned from Jim's excellent work. Two Johnathan Lloyd quotes standout.

The first on new receivers coach Gerad Parker:


“He brings a different perspective to the room,” Lloyd says. “He played wide-out in college, he’s coached a lot of good wide-outs, guys in the league now. He’s always bringing us different tools, little tips, things to beat coverage, things to beat press. He’s been a great addition to the room.”

Hopefully, the different tools and little tips will make a huge difference. Getting more production out of the passing game is a high priority.

The second on re-energizing the offense:


"taking shots. In the scrimmage, as you guys saw, we took some big shots down field. That’s the only way to put points on the board, to score touchdowns. Last year we didn’t have a lot of production. That’s the only way to raise it, to take chances and be aggressive.”

Lloyd's statement makes me slightly nervous. Should we take big shots down field? Absolutely! My concern is taking too many and disrupting offensive rhythm.

OldPhiKap
08-30-2018, 05:33 PM
Anyway, the Devils need to bring it Friday night, because Monken and Army certainly will.

You saying Duke's gotta GATA?

Great summation of Georgia Southern football. And the dark days shall pass.

HereBeforeCoachK
08-30-2018, 05:34 PM
I'm not sure you're remembering correctly. Georgia Southern beat App State in Statesboro in Monken's first season, although he did lose in Boone a couple of times. .

yes, I was thinking of the 2011 game....and basing it only on the Ga Southern fans around me grumbling about "the new coach." And yes, I do remember the shocker he won in his last game.

Acymetric
08-30-2018, 05:36 PM
Lloyd's statement makes me slightly nervous. Should we take big shots down field? Absolutely! My concern is taking too many and disrupting offensive rhythm.

No reason to be nervous, that's just "player-speak". Of course when talking about fixing an offense that lacked explosives a WR is going to talk about "going deep" but no reason to think or worry that we're just going to start checking the ball downfield all the time.

Banana
08-30-2018, 07:49 PM
As richmclean so reasonably requested, I'll provide a legend for the coloring used in my depth chart. I'll try to remember to provide it when I post the depth chart going forward.

Green is always good, and yellow is always not-so-good.

So, from a talent and depth standpoint, the green positions are the strongest on the team, and the yellow positions are the weakest IMHO.

Players whose names are displayed in red may still be recovering from injuries that caused them to miss (1) games at the end of last year, and/or (2) spring practice.

Players with green-shaded names are true freshmen who enrolled in January, 2018 and participated in spring practice.

Players with blue-shaded names are high school seniors (class of 2019) who have committed to Duke, and the player with a gray-shaded name (Nicky Dalmolin) is a high school junior wide receiver (class of 2020) who has committed to Duke. I deleted Nick Jackson (a prospective senior outside linebacker recruit) from the chart for space reasons, not because I have become less optimistic that he will eventually commit to Duke.

Players whose class is green-shaded made the 2017-18 ACC Academic Honor Roll.

Players whose height is shaded green are tall for their position. Players whose weight is shaded green are heavy for their position (a good thing, if it is muscle) and players whose weight is shaded yellow are light for their position. I have yellow-shaded Jeremy McDuffie, because 175 is light for a strike safety (Jeremy Cash played that position at 210 pounds), but McDuffie somehow makes it work.

A player whose high school rank is shaded green was or is a Top 500 recruit on the 247Sports site, except that a kicker's high school rank is shaded green if 247Sports lists him as a Top 10 placekicker or punter.

A player's 2017 snap total is shaded green if he played at least 800 snaps.

Once the season starts, the snaps, passing yards, rushing yards, tackles, tackles for loss, and turnovers will be based on cumulative statistics for the 2018 season. If past trends continue, Joe Giles-Harris will have an outrageously high ratio of tackles to snaps (partly because that is the way the defense is designed and partly because he is so good), and Mark Gilbert will have a low ratio of tackles to snaps (because no one wants to risk throwing in his direction). But Gilbert will probably get lots of turnovers with his limited opportunities anyway.

OldPhiKap
08-30-2018, 08:39 PM
Scouting for next week:

After Northwestern ripping off two TDs, Purdue with a TD on the board.

ESPN now.

60sDukie
08-30-2018, 08:49 PM
Also scouting Northwestern. What’s with their helmets?

OldPhiKap
08-30-2018, 08:52 PM
14 all, corner got juked out of his shoes.

tteettimes
08-30-2018, 09:26 PM
NW o-line is dominating.........................

duke2x
08-30-2018, 09:37 PM
NW o-line is dominating.............

One brick at a time. Preseason Duke >> Purdue, particularly at DL. We will see what we have in 24 hours.

OldPhiKap
08-30-2018, 09:54 PM
One brick at a time. Preseason Duke >> Purdue, particularly at DL. We will see what we have in 24 hours.

Purdue and NW were essentially pick-‘em:

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-football/odds/las-vegas/

First half really impressive for NW.

duke2x
08-31-2018, 12:01 AM
Purdue and NW were essentially pick-‘em:

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-football/odds/las-vegas/

First half really impressive for NW.

Final was 31-27 NW after a 31-17 halftime lead. Purdue was -3 in TO margin.

In other news, ESPN needs to fix the bug in its gametracker. After Tulane fumbled first in OT, it said Wake was 1st and 73 and then 2nd and 89. That's one impressive TD for the Deacs to score.

Reilly
08-31-2018, 12:19 AM
Gameday. Rip 'em up, tear 'em up ...

OldPhiKap
08-31-2018, 07:09 AM
Gameday. Rip 'em up, tear 'em up ...

... give’m Hell, DUKE!!!!

devildeac
08-31-2018, 07:25 AM
Steve Wiseman with a strengths and concerns article in the Raleigh News and Observer this AM:

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article217371175.html

Bob Green
08-31-2018, 08:08 AM
This interesting article discusses all the Gwinnett County (Georgia) football players involved in tonight's game starting with Jeremy and Julian McDuffie:

https://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/sports/gwinnett-grads-mcduffie-brothers-part-of-gwinnett-heavy-army-duke/article_11b45811-ce50-5677-816d-f4e55cd1670e.html


Players on both sides of Friday night’s Army-Duke football game will see familiar faces from Gwinnett County in opposing jerseys, but the evening is especially unique for the McDuffies.

HereBeforeCoachK
08-31-2018, 08:29 AM
One brick at a time. Preseason Duke >> Purdue, particularly at DL. We will see what we have in 24 hours.

As fans, we can forget Army for three hours and 'scout' NW.....I hope Cut showed the guys a movie or something last night, and that they didn't even watch NW game.

peloton
08-31-2018, 10:01 AM
Let's do this. Let's go Blue Devils!!

TKG
08-31-2018, 10:25 AM
Silly question, has there been a uniform “reveal” for the Blue Devils tonight?

BigWayne
08-31-2018, 11:00 AM
Silly question, has there been a uniform “reveal” for the Blue Devils tonight?

The football managers like to use twitter for this type of thing.
https://twitter.com/DukeFBEquipment/status/1034804719145951238

OldPhiKap
08-31-2018, 05:24 PM
Cannot wait!!!

killerleft
08-31-2018, 05:36 PM
Shuttling toward the Chapel. Getting excited. Go Duke!

dukebluesincebirth
08-31-2018, 06:01 PM
Duke minus 14 at my book now... not sure about that, but excited for football season! LETS GO BLUE DEVILS 😈

OldPhiKap
08-31-2018, 06:06 PM
Less than an hour!!!

HereBeforeCoachK
08-31-2018, 06:07 PM
Duke minus 14 at my book now... not sure about that, but excited for football season! LETS GO BLUE DEVILS 😈

The over under is 46......I'm thinking over easy.....

OldPhiKap
08-31-2018, 06:12 PM
I'm thinking over easy....

What’s breakfast got to do with this?!?

mattman91
08-31-2018, 06:46 PM
The brewery I'm at has the TV set on ESPNU. I dare anyone change it.

LGD!

OldPhiKap
08-31-2018, 06:51 PM
No chat?

brevity
08-31-2018, 06:56 PM
No chat?

I didn't see ~jk online, so I'll step in. Link to chat:
https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox

4Gen
08-31-2018, 06:58 PM
ESPNU,Spectrum 370 in Goldsboro NC area, currently unavailable. Grrrr

Acymetric
08-31-2018, 07:00 PM
Sparse crowd... hopefully it fills in a bit after kickoff!

cato
08-31-2018, 07:10 PM
And Army opens with a pass!

cato
08-31-2018, 07:11 PM
Turnover!

HereBeforeCoachK
08-31-2018, 07:17 PM
Army with new QB making less mental mistakes than Duke is with experience. I guess the good news is...new kicker gets his first shot, an easy one, and looks solid.

Sixthman
08-31-2018, 07:18 PM
Offensive Coordinator begins season making his intentions very clear. Pass behind the line of scrimmage completed for negative yards.

HereBeforeCoachK
08-31-2018, 07:27 PM
Good thing we had extra week to get ready for the bone...

Devilwin
08-31-2018, 07:29 PM
As in years past, flat pass never works yet we go to it again, and again, and again..sigh..

Acymetric
08-31-2018, 07:41 PM
Feed the beast!

richmclean
08-31-2018, 07:53 PM
Two Army turns and we’re up 10.

Their OL is gashing our D otherwise.

DU82
08-31-2018, 07:57 PM
And a perfect deep pass leads to short TD for Jones

chrishoke
08-31-2018, 08:18 PM
17-0 at halftime. Good crowd

Sixthman
08-31-2018, 08:19 PM
Defense really picked it up in second quarter. Seem to be more comfortable making plays rather than waiting for the play to come to them.

sagegrouse
08-31-2018, 08:19 PM
Big difference between Q1 and Q2. Army seemed the stronger team in the first quarter, except for the turnover and the missed field goal. We seem to be reaching our stride now. Brittain Brown is close to unstoppable.

HereBeforeCoachK
08-31-2018, 08:20 PM
17-0 at halftime. Good crowd

Good to know....most camera angles show empty seats

jimsumner
08-31-2018, 08:22 PM
17-0 at halftime. Good crowd

Chris, I think you're confusing blue-backed seats with blue-shirted fans.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
08-31-2018, 08:58 PM
Independence High School TD!

DU82
08-31-2018, 09:04 PM
Brittain Brown down after a run. Limping off the field. Not looking good.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
08-31-2018, 09:05 PM
Brittain Brown down after a run. Limping off the field. Not looking good.

That looked really unpleasant.

Sixthman
08-31-2018, 09:05 PM
Brittain Brown down after a run. Limping off the field. Not looking good.

Looked like a cramp. Let’s hope.

DU82
08-31-2018, 09:07 PM
No cramp, it was his knee. But he’s out from the hastily put up tent, and he looks OK. Whew!

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
08-31-2018, 09:09 PM
Looked like a cramp. Let’s hope.

You didn't see the replay I saw. Knee bent sideways.

moonpie23
08-31-2018, 09:09 PM
no chat tonight?

richmclean
08-31-2018, 09:10 PM
Number 10 Waters has a half dozen negative plays

jwillfan
08-31-2018, 09:13 PM
At the game. Very unimpressed esp with our D. We should be up 31-7 or 34-0.

loran16
08-31-2018, 09:13 PM
Well, I'm sure a team that actually knows how to and wants to pass like Northwestern is SALIVATING at our hilariously bad secondary in OBVIOUS passing plays this game. Good lord.

75Crazie
08-31-2018, 09:13 PM
I am not the least bit impressed with our pass defense so far.

DU82
08-31-2018, 09:19 PM
Brown went in for one play, got the first down, then came right out. Guessing he’s done for the night. Perhaps a hyperextended knee.

75Crazie
08-31-2018, 09:21 PM
Brown went in for one play, got the first down, then came right out. Guessing he’s done for the night. Perhaps a hyperextended knee.
Take a good look at the replay, if you have a DVR. Definitely looked like a hyperextension to me.

DU82
08-31-2018, 09:28 PM
I don’t have a DVR at the game.

75Crazie
08-31-2018, 09:30 PM
Oops, sorry, I'm still not caught up to the technology of people posting from the game. Yes, in the TV replay, it seemed pretty obvious that there was some hyperextension there. However, the fact he walked around the stadium and came back for one play is a good sign.

richmclean
08-31-2018, 09:32 PM
Gilbert torched all night. Ugh.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
08-31-2018, 09:49 PM
Really? Surprised by the tone here. Solid win against a ten win team last year.

Impressive defense. Strange thar Army decides to go away from the run today after decades of triple option.

75Crazie
08-31-2018, 09:59 PM
Really? Surprised by the tone here. Solid win against a ten win team last year.

Impressive defense. Strange thar Army decides to go away from the run today after decades of triple option.
For one thing, that was last year's Army team. Bradshaw took a lot away with him.

My assessment of this game is that the Army offense stopped themselves, with fumbles and inexplicable play calling, more than the Duke defense stopping them. I think next week will be a much better gauge of where this defense is.

HereBeforeCoachK
08-31-2018, 10:04 PM
Really? Surprised by the tone here. Solid win against a ten win team last year.

Impressive defense. Strange thar Army decides to go away from the run today after decades of triple option.

Right, I think the key is that no one could have predicted that Army would depend so heavily on the passing game. Given that....I think a decent defensive performance. Held Army to about half their rushing average from last year.

sagegrouse
08-31-2018, 10:08 PM
Right, I think the key is that no one could have predicted that Army would depend so heavily on the passing game. Given that...I think a decent defensive performance. Held Army to about half their rushing average from last year.

I'm happy with the play of the team, especially after the first quarter. I am really upset that Giles-Harris and B. Brown got injured -- I hope they are not consequential.

richardjackson199
08-31-2018, 10:09 PM
Oops, sorry, I'm still not caught up to the technology of people posting from the game. Yes, in the TV replay, it seemed pretty obvious that there was some hyperextension there. However, the fact he walked around the stadium and came back for one play is a good sign.

I'm shocked he went back into the game at all. His night should have been done. That knee looked horrific on the replay. I'm still worried about Brown and would be happy to hear that he's healthy to keep playing football this season.

Great win! Win 2 of next 3 games and we're really in business. Will be tough though.

YmoBeThere
08-31-2018, 10:10 PM
Really? Surprised by the tone here. Solid win against a ten win team last year.

Impressive defense. Strange thar Army decides to go away from the run today after decades of triple option.

I agree with you. Army may not win 10 this year, but 8 and a bowl game would be my guess. This certainly wasn't an NCCU caliber opponent.

OldPhiKap
08-31-2018, 10:13 PM
Right, I think the key is that no one could have predicted that Army would depend so heavily on the passing game. Given that...I think a decent defensive performance. Held Army to about half their rushing average from last year.

I think Duke may have had the hardest job that any Army opponent will have all year — seeing their new offense for the first time. We were the ones to be surprised, and we survived it. Army could win 9-10 games again this year, nice win.


For one thing, that was last year's Army team. Bradshaw took a lot away with him.

My assessment of this game is that the Army offense stopped themselves, with fumbles and inexplicable play calling, more than the Duke defense stopping them. I think next week will be a much better gauge of where this defense is.

Next week will be interesting, because a gimmicky option team does not show you much about your defense. I am hopeful that we are strong against a more traditional defense, where the secondary is playing more straight-up. I do not draw too many strong opinions, positive or negative, from defending an option team.

jbay201
08-31-2018, 10:27 PM
team looked pretty good today against a real football team (no AA school like we used to play). what are our chances of making the top 25 this year? announcers were saying this might be the cutcliffe's best team.

OldPhiKap
08-31-2018, 10:32 PM
team looked pretty good today against a real football team (no AA school like we used to play). what are our chances of making the top 25 this year? announcers were saying this might be the cutcliffe's best team.

Good question, we will have a better idea after next week. Really tough road game.

Guessing we are about a 5.5 point underdog, give or take?

DU82
08-31-2018, 10:48 PM
I'm happy with the play of the team, especially after the first quarter. I am really upset that Giles-Harris and B. Brown got injured -- I hope they are not consequential.

Giles-Harris pretty clearly had a cramp. He came back a couple of series later and looked OK.

Brown's first injury was to his knee, and it looked bad from the stands. As I mentioned, they popped up a tent to treat him away from view, and he came out fairly quickly, flexing his knees. He came back in for the kickoff (which was an onsides attempt fielded by Helm IIRC) and then the next play he ran for the first down. He was hit high, and talking to our PA announcer after the game, he thought he got stung in the shoulder, not the knee. Hopefully it's minor, and the Beast can steamroll NW next week.

Kfanarmy
08-31-2018, 11:55 PM
Two favorite colleges playing, so someone was going to win and someone had to lose. Duke QB played very well and Defense was solid. Army QB didnt run well, but managed the pass ok. Two self-inflicted TOs in the first half and an ineffective field goal game, a long-term problem, by Army seemed to seal it. Statistically a close game. A bit disappointed that the officials showed their conference allegiance, because Duke didnt need the assist.

HereBeforeCoachK
08-31-2018, 11:56 PM
I think Duke may have had the hardest job that any Army opponent will have all year — seeing their new offense for the first time. We were the ones to be surprised, and we survived it. Army could win 9-10 games again this year, nice win.


I agree...I didn't think Duke looked that great, but when I realized there was absolutely no way to prepare for an Army team that is going to throw the ball 21 times....it was a good result. And you're right, no one else on Army's schedule will be caught in that surprise again.

duke2x
09-01-2018, 12:12 AM
Two favorite colleges playing, so someone was going to win and someone had to lose. Duke QB played very well and Defense was solid. Army QB didnt run well, but managed the pass ok. Two self-inflicted TOs in the first half and an ineffective field goal game, a long-term problem, by Army seemed to seal it. Statistically a close game. A bit disappointed that the officials showed their conference allegiance, because Duke didnt need the assist.

Army uses ACC refs for its games. The same crew chief did the game last year.

I don't think we can be too upset for week 1. The pass offense was better than I expected, but the pass defense looked like we didn't practice it much. We put Army into a situation where they had to pass 21 times--they passed 61 total in 13 games last year. I just hope Brown and Giles-Harris get healthy. We can't afford to lose either. Next week is still a true toss-up game.

devildeac
09-01-2018, 12:32 AM
Attendance listed at 26,017 on espn. We estimated about 26-28K from our vantage point in the cheap seats. :o

Listen to Quants
09-01-2018, 12:53 AM
Army uses ACC refs for its games. The same crew chief did the game last year.

I don't think we can be too upset for week 1. The pass offense was better than I expected, but the pass defense looked like we didn't practice it much. We put Army into a situation where they had to pass 21 times--they passed 61 total in 13 games last year. I just hope Brown and Giles-Harris get healthy. We can't afford to lose either. Next week is still a true toss-up game.

Indeed not. The 'gadget' play aspect of the first 10 or so passes from Army helped them work, of course. And the 'analytics' (ie well thought out) handling of 4th down by Army gave them extra possessions. Most teams are not that sensible. ... yet

ehdg
09-01-2018, 12:54 AM
Offense looked better n was happy to see Jones take a few deep shots n connected on a couple. Surprisingly we didn’t use our TE’s much which is I thought a strength of this team. Defense looked pretty good considering what they had to prepare for n what Army ended up running. Was very surprised how often they threw the ball. I expected more option run plays.

CameronBornAndBred
09-01-2018, 01:22 AM
Attendance listed at 26,017 on espn. We estimated about 26-28K from our vantage point in the cheap seats. :o

Huge shout out to the students.

uh_no
09-01-2018, 01:31 AM
Attendance listed at 26,017 on espn. We estimated about 26-28K from our vantage point in the cheap seats. :o

I think the other 15k are still trying to get through security :)

arnie
09-01-2018, 06:43 AM
I think the other 15k are still trying to get through security :)

From TV it did appear maybe 10,000 more fans in stands late 1st quarter than at kickoff. Think it was security or parking quagmire? Or just fans arriving late?

dukelifer
09-01-2018, 07:19 AM
From TV it did appear maybe 10,000 more fans in stands late 1st quarter than at kickoff. Think it was security or parking quagmire? Or just fans arriving late?

It definitely filled up after the first quarter. A nice night for football. Duke looked very solid against a good, well coached team. The bend but don’t break defense held up. Clearly there is work to do managing the big play and 4th down D. Dukes O was impressively efficient. Jones was in command all night and at times Duke looked like they could score at will. We will know much more after next week.

Tripping William
09-01-2018, 07:20 AM
Running game looked really good.

Jones was efficient.

Special teams looks much improved.

Secondary needs work.

budwom
09-01-2018, 07:56 AM
Offensive Coordinator begins season making his intentions very clear. Pass behind the line of scrimmage completed for negative yards.

a couple minutes into the new season and already I'm howling at the TV...Roper's obsession with lateral plays and phobia of verticality is perplexing.

uh_no
09-01-2018, 07:58 AM
From TV it did appear maybe 10,000 more fans in stands late 1st quarter than at kickoff. Think it was security or parking quagmire? Or just fans arriving late?

hey checking whether all those bags are duke-merchandise brand takes time!

mostly sarcastic though. probably a bit of both.

OZZIE4DUKE
09-01-2018, 08:29 AM
Great tailgate, good opening game and a great result!

Hi, I’m Larry, this is my brother Daryl, my other brother Darrell, and my cousin Larry!

Bob Green
09-01-2018, 08:33 AM
A very enjoyable game. A few quick takeaways:

1. Special teams were solid. T.J. Rahming didn't let a punt touch the ground. We blocked a FG attempt.
2. Aaron Young with a 114 yards receiving shows why he earned the starting nod.
3. Brittain Brown looked great - I sure hope his knee is okay. Deon Jackson as well. Both guys are powerful runners.
4. Daniel Jones was efficient. Coach Cutcliffe made that point several times in his post game presser.

Time to go to work on Northwestern preps.

swiseman
09-01-2018, 08:34 AM
Good morning, everyone. I was up well past midnight penning my thoughts on Duke's first game. Impressive result overall. Team played angry, which I explain here...


https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article217639345.html


Of course, Northwestern will play angry next week for the same reason. The Wildcats are certainly smarting from Duke's one-sided win at WW last year. Big test awaits.

Native
09-01-2018, 08:50 AM
Deon Jackson as well...

To come in as a backup in the red zone and just punch it in for a TD bodes well, I think. He didn't play too much but he capitalized on the reps he got.

CDu
09-01-2018, 09:31 AM
hey checking whether all those bags are duke-merchandise brand takes time!

mostly sarcastic though. probably a bit of both.

As one of those who didn’t get in until the FG in the first quarter, I can say that security was a breeze. Traffic was brutal. I was inside of Cornwallis on Academy at about 6:35. Didn’t park in Blue Zone B-9 until 7:05.

OldPhiKap
09-01-2018, 09:41 AM
Good morning, everyone. I was up well past midnight penning my thoughts on Duke's first game. Impressive result overall. Team played angry, which I explain here...


https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article217639345.html


Of course, Northwestern will play angry next week for the same reason. The Wildcats are certainly smarting from Duke's one-sided win at WW last year. Big test awaits.

Very nice article, Steve. Jim’s article on the main page here is also great. We fans really appreciate all that y’all do.

The three big questions for me coming into the season were special teams, O line, and WRs. Happy with what I saw in all three.

The secondary was the odd man out, but I imagine that was due to preparing and gaming for the Run option as opposed to all the passes.

I am a big Jeff Monken fan, and thought the opening call of a pass was brilliant. Army had a good game plan, we were just more physical.

Indoor66
09-01-2018, 09:52 AM
Great tailgate, good opening game and a great result!

Hi, I’m Larry, this is my brother Daryl, my other brother Darrell, and my cousin Larry!

Good to see all are well and were still able to root us to a win after all of the partying. 🤣😎

nmduke2001
09-01-2018, 09:58 AM
I think they looked great. I’m not worried about the defense at all. The commentators mentioned that Duke wasn’t playing their normal secondary in order to defend the triple option. That probably contributed to the passing woes on defense.

OldPhiKap
09-01-2018, 10:03 AM
I think they looked great. I’m not worried about the defense at all. The commentators mentioned that Duke wasn’t playing their normal secondary in order to defend the triple option. That probably contributed to the passing woes on defense.

Yup. And Army used a lot of odd formations and unbalanced lines, which present odd looks.

Even with that, I only remember one truly blown coverage —the second Army touchdown.

AustinDevil
09-01-2018, 10:18 AM
The over under is 46...I'm thinking over easy....

Or over by a wafer-thin margin!

HereBeforeCoachK
09-01-2018, 10:44 AM
Or over by a wafer-thin margin!

Yep, it ended up that way....I can't believe Army possessed for 36 minutes + and scored only 14.

HereBeforeCoachK
09-01-2018, 10:49 AM
Vegas has Duke favored by 13.5 points with the Over/Under at 46. I say Duke covers with a 31 - 17 victory.

This blog (http://blogs.hudsonvalley.com/west-point-army-football/) contains some information on Army practice and scrimmages.

Well that was purty dadgum close....

uh_no
09-01-2018, 11:03 AM
Yup. And Army used a lot of odd formations and unbalanced lines, which present odd looks.

Even with that, I only remember one truly blown coverage —the second Army touchdown.

That was the only really truly blown coverage, but there is definitely still a lot of work to do on that side of the ball...receivers with far too much room at times. Not bad, just something to work on. can't complain for the opener.

peloton
09-01-2018, 11:03 AM
Kudos to both Jim Sumner and Steve Wiseman for their write-ups on the important victory. Now we have some momentum heading into an important stretch of the season. Jim, I love the title you used - I chuckled out loud.

Last night was a very nice game experience...night game(!), pleasant weather, good size crowd (especially for a Duke game), and of course an important victory against a tough (but somewhat outmanned) opponent. I hope this doesn't come off as condescending, but hats off to Army on a hard-fought game. I was pretty impressed by most aspects of our play. Certainly more work can be done in regard to not giving up the big play. This team is a work in progress and let's face it, it was the first game of the season. I think this and other problems will be addressed adequately as the season goes on. Let's hope so at least! The most important game on our schedule is the next game...doesn't matter who we play later. The game I want to win most is the next one...I trust Cut has instilled this mindset in the team.

We were running late to the game last night unfortunately, but it was a pleasure to talk to DevilDeac and CameronBornandBred after the game (albeit briefly). They even got a chance to meet the (elusive) wife...a rare sight at Duke football games! :D

ChapelHillDevil
09-01-2018, 11:46 AM
Great time last night- Hope the Nccu crowd is even better. Critical game next week. I think it's the next step in being a top 25 team. Need another win!!!!

chrishoke
09-01-2018, 12:39 PM
Chris, I think you're confusing blue-backed seats with blue-shirted fans.

26,000 for a game against an Army team that brings few fans is a good crowd for Duke IMHO. Reasonable people can differ of course. Go Duke!

Stray Gator
09-01-2018, 01:27 PM
26,000 for a game against an Army team that brings few fans is a good crowd for Duke IMHO. Reasonable people can differ of course. Go Duke!

From our seats in Section 27, it appeared to be a very good crowd, at least from the end zone through student and alumni sections. And for the most part, from late in the first quarter until the middle of the fourth, the fans seemed to stay engaged and vocally supportive. Of course, the seating sections on the opposite side (which are most frequently shown on TV) were more sparsely populated. But I believe a major contributing factor to that problem is the fact that so many people prefer to stand along the concourse wall throughout the game. If most of those people would fill in the seats below, I think game attendance would look significantly better.

OldPhiKap
09-01-2018, 01:36 PM
FWIW, the crowd seemed better than usual to me on TV. I recall thinking at one time that they were deliberately using angles to show crowds, although I’m sure that is not so.

The more I’ve thought about the game today, I’ve just gotten happier and happier.

And my favorite quote of Cut’s post-game presser was to the effect: “our coaches may not know it yet, but we start work early tomorrow.” I bet that Cut’s been scheming and watching film in his office since 7 am.

HereBeforeCoachK
09-01-2018, 01:37 PM
From our seats in Section 27, it appeared to be a very good crowd, at least from the end zone through student and alumni sections. And for the most part, from late in the first quarter until the middle of the fourth, the fans seemed to stay engaged and vocally supportive. Of course, the seating sections on the opposite side (which are most frequently shown on TV) were more sparsely populated. But I believe a major contributing factor to that problem is the fact that so many people prefer to stand along the concourse wall throughout the game. If most of those people would fill in the seats below, I think game attendance would look significantly better.

You touched on two problems that make Duke football look really bad on TV....the camera stands showing the empty part of the stadium (cringe worthy on kickoffs, long passes) - and so many people standing on the concourse wall. If memory serves, at certain times, they've had temp bleachers along the concourse wall, so you had to go into the seating area to see the game. It may seem counterintuitive, but putting up some bleachers - adding seats of course - might make the crowds look better since you couldn't watch the game from the concourse.

HereBeforeCoachK
09-01-2018, 01:39 PM
That was the only really truly blown coverage, but there is definitely still a lot of work to do on that side of the ball...receivers with far too much room at times. Not bad, just something to work on. can't complain for the opener.

Cut touched on that in the presser......they were totally caught by surprise that Army threw it 21 times....as would every coach and team in the nation. Playing Army is a totally different thing...I'm happy to be playing a more standard football team.

jimsumner
09-01-2018, 02:16 PM
Kudos to both Jim Sumner and Steve Wiseman for their write-ups on the important victory. Now we have some momentum heading into an important stretch of the season. Jim, I love the title you used - I chuckled out loud.

Last night was a very nice game experience...night game(!), pleasant weather, good size crowd (especially for a Duke game), and of course an important victory against a tough (but somewhat outmanned) opponent. I hope this doesn't come off as condescending, but hats off to Army on a hard-fought game. I was pretty impressed by most aspects of our play. Certainly more work can be done in regard to not giving up the big play. This team is a work in progress and let's face it, it was the first game of the season. I think this and other problems will be addressed adequately as the season goes on. Let's hope so at least! The most important game on our schedule is the next game...doesn't matter who we play later. The game I want to win most is the next one...I trust Cut has instilled this mindset in the team.

We were running late to the game last night unfortunately, but it was a pleasure to talk to DevilDeac and CameronBornandBred after the game (albeit briefly). They even got a chance to meet the (elusive) wife...a rare sight at Duke football games! :D

Give Julian credit for the title.

HereBeforeCoachK
09-01-2018, 02:21 PM
Give Julian credit for the title.

Great headline, great article....great great photo angle!!! Can we start a collection to build a camera stand that would capture that angle??????

jwillfan
09-01-2018, 04:13 PM
FWIW, the crowd seemed better than usual to me on TV. I recall thinking at one time that they were deliberately using angles to show crowds, although I’m sure that is not so.

I haven't seen this anywhere so I'll chime in. I heard on twitter that they were doing a promotion for locals to fill the seats for a nationally televised game. If your order was from a Durm area code, $6.75 got you a GA seat including a food voucher good for chips, fountain drink, and either a hot dog or a veggie burger. I got a bunch thinking I might get out at halftime to a tailgate and re-scan to come in with an unused ticket, plus extra food vouchers for my teen-aged boys. You could print tickets at home but still had to go to will call for the food vouchers...this is where the trouble began.

We couldn't get to the stadium until close to kickoff...and while there are a whole wall of will-call lines there was ONE for the Durham Food Vouchers. I saw 2 but as I got closer realized that one had no one at the window. I had started a nice conversation with a couple of older guys - one was a Duke Forestry grad from the 60s who had been in 'Nam...and realized I was in the 'Heroes' line for veterans only (of which there were 2 - lines, not veterans) so slid over to my right and got in the single Durm line.

To recap - they advertised a great promotion to get butts in the seats, made everyone pick up vouchers and/or tickets at Will Call, and had ONLY A SINGLE LINE. This was incredibly poor planning. Needless to say there were neither burritos nor hot dogs at the concession stand at which we waited in line and they felt bad for us so let us have BBQ sandwiches.

We made it into the stadium after security, etc during Duke's second possession so missed Army's first 2 fumbles and recovery.

And that, ladies and gents, is the first and last game I have/will attend since the renovation, despite living 3 miles from the stadium. I used to go to a handful of games, even when we were putrid (Carl Franks years, anyone? Ted Roof?) because I had friends with a fun tailgate, but the reno obliterated their spot and they weren't offered another spot. Plus taking away re-entry at halftime.

Oh, the game you ask? Probably better viewed from home on TV than from GA seats in the end zone anyway. Maybe it was the game plan but a group of us were very puzzled that the vaunted/hyped D-line were getting no penetration and allowing runs.

/rant

Bob Green
09-01-2018, 04:35 PM
And that, ladies and gents, is the first and last game I have/will attend since the renovation, despite living 3 miles from the stadium.

Simple answer to your "problem." Show up earlier. You live 3 miles from the stadium, I live 170 miles from the stadium. The Green Family car rolled onto campus at 3:15 and we had a great afternoon/evening at tailgate and the game.

HereBeforeCoachK
09-01-2018, 04:51 PM
Oh, the game you ask? Probably better viewed from home on TV than from GA seats in the end zone anyway. Maybe it was the game plan but a group of us were very puzzled that the vaunted/hyped D-line were getting no penetration and allowing runs.

/rant

Hard to penetrate.....and not necessary to penetrate.....the run game in a wishbone type. They held Army well under 4 yards per carry. Army is not going to win when you do that.

Troublemaker
09-01-2018, 05:05 PM
The first down count was only 19 to 18 in Duke's favor. The yardage count was only 381 to 365 in Duke's favor. Usually you'd like to see bigger margins in those two stats when playing at home as two TD favorites.

Good to win the first game, lots to be excited about, but also lots to improve.

jwillfan
09-01-2018, 05:24 PM
Simple answer to your "problem." Show up earlier. You live 3 miles from the stadium, I live 170 miles from the stadium. The Green Family car rolled onto campus at 3:15 and we had a great afternoon/evening at tailgate and the game.

Ok sure. If it was a Saturday. But not a Friday night game, had to work until past 5. Still doesn't excuse the lame single will call window for a huge promotional deal.

luvdahops
09-01-2018, 05:43 PM
The first down count was only 19 to 18 in Duke's favor. The yardage count was only 381 to 365 in Duke's favor. Usually you'd like to see bigger margins in those two stats when playing at home as two TD favorites.

Good to win the first game, lots to be excited about, but also lots to improve.

I think those stats at least partially reflect Army's strategic approach of controlling possession and keeping opposing offenses off the field. They had the ball 36 minutes to our 24, and ran 68 plays to our 52. Our defense did a generally good job in bend don't break mode, and though they gave up a few big passing plays, those were offset by two fumble recoveries. And I will take 7.3 yards per play from our offense against any opponent, especially if it comes on a mix of chunky gains and sustained drives.

Bob Green
09-01-2018, 05:51 PM
...had to work until past 5.

I cannot argue your counterpoint as work is a necessary evil.

devildeac
09-01-2018, 06:45 PM
I think the other 15k are still trying to get through security :)

Now, now, it wasn't that bad. August West and I called the "jet sweep" and shaved about 2 minutes off our wait time by heading to the side entrances. ;)

devildeac
09-01-2018, 06:51 PM
Good morning, everyone. I was up well past midnight penning my thoughts on Duke's first game. Impressive result overall. Team played angry, which I explain here...


https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article217639345.html


Of course, Northwestern will play angry next week for the same reason. The Wildcats are certainly smarting from Duke's one-sided win at WW last year. Big test awaits.

Once again, thanks for linking your report, Steve! Great stuff to read.

Everyone visiting this thread should appreciate the story.

devildeac
09-01-2018, 06:55 PM
I think they looked great. I’m not worried about the defense at all. The commentators mentioned that Duke wasn’t playing their normal secondary in order to defend the triple option. That probably contributed to the passing woes on defense.

Koby Quansah played a lot of snaps last PM, sometimes as part of a 4-2-5 and others as a 3rd LB in a 4-3-4 alignment. I thought he played, well, too, with several tackles and just missing a pick near the sidelines.

HereBeforeCoachK
09-01-2018, 08:09 PM
The first down count was only 19 to 18 in Duke's favor. The yardage count was only 381 to 365 in Duke's favor. Usually you'd like to see bigger margins in those two stats when playing at home as two TD favorites.

Good to win the first game, lots to be excited about, but also lots to improve.

Usually you would want more of a margin on the stats, but playing an option wish bone team is not 'usually' type stuff. Low snap count games....etc. Duke was extremely efficient, and never really threatened in the game.

Acymetric
09-01-2018, 08:11 PM
Now, now, it wasn't that bad. August West and I called the "jet sweep" and shaved about 2 minutes off our wait time by heading to the side entrances. ;)

They really ought to do a better job directing people to the gates nobody uses. I can hardly remember ever waiting in line to get into a game, even reasonably well attended ones.

Granted I also don't get to the game 5 minutes before kickoff which is part of the problem with the lines.

Troublemaker
09-01-2018, 08:51 PM
Usually you would want more of a margin on the stats, but playing an option wish bone team is not 'usually' type stuff. Low snap count games...etc. Duke was extremely efficient, and never really threatened in the game.

I mean, we play Army and their option offense every year, and I know we've had better defensive performances (and wider stat margins) against them than in this game.

And yes, I understand that they surprised us by passing more than they typically do. But, that's not exactly 4-D chess being played by the Army coach. Think about it this way.
(1) College football coaches generally expect surprises in the season opener.
(2) Both Army and Duke coaches were aware before the game that Cutcliffe-coached Duke teams generally do well against the option running game.

Does anybody disagree with either statement 1 or statement 2? If not, then the checkers move (again, not 4-D chess) for Army is just to pass more than usual.

Hey, I'm happy with this Game 1 win and performance overall. Basically no complaints with the offense. Just wish the defense had played a little better. I.e. we weren't perfect.

sagegrouse
09-01-2018, 09:04 PM
I mean, we play Army and their option offense every year, and I know we've had better defensive performances (and wider stat margins) against them than in this game.

And yes, I understand that they surprised us by passing more than they typically do. But, that's not exactly 4-D chess being played by the Army coach. Think about it this way.
(1) College football coaches generally expect surprises in the season opener.
(2) Both Army and Duke coaches were aware before the game that Cutcliffe-coached Duke teams generally do well against the option running game.

Does anybody disagree with either statement 1 or statement 2? If not, then the checkers move (again, not 4-D chess) for Army is just to pass more than usual.

Hey, I'm happy with this Game 1 win and performance overall. Basically no complaints with the offense. Just wish the defense had played a little better. I.e. we weren't perfect.

Disagree with #1, in that most college coaches are still trying to get the team to focus on the basics for the first game. I expect Duke was mostly worried about stopping the dive play and variations off of it. When we could go to a more normal defense, after Army was forced to give up on the triple option in the fourth quarter, we handled the cadets fairly easily. Kudos BTW to Army QB Kelvin Hopkins -- quite an athlete and a very good passer off of play action.

I agree with #2 in that it was clear that the Army coaches knew they had to do something a bit different against Duke last night.

Onepositive impression is that our main offensive threats -- Daniel, Brittain, and Aaron -- were physically stronger than the Army defenders. I don't know that this will carry over against other teams, but I hope so.

jimsumner
09-01-2018, 10:38 PM
Time is a resource.

You have a finite amount of time.

You can use that time to prepare for what Army has done in the past.

Or you can use that time to prepare for what Army has not done in the past.

It seems to me that Duke rationally allocated that resources in preparing for what Army has done in the past.

Let me put it another way.

Suppose for the sake of argument that Duke had spent the last two weeks preparing for the forward pass.

Army opens with a pass or two. They fall incomplete.

So, they go back to the triple option and gash Duke for 500 or so yards.

Ouch.

Duke was a 13.5 point favorite against a team that won 10 games last season, one of them against Duke.

Duke won by 20.

I'll take that.

OldPhiKap
09-01-2018, 10:49 PM
Time is a resource.

You have a finite amount of time.

You can use that time to prepare for what Army has done in the past.

Or you can use that time to prepare for what Army has not done in the past.

It seems to me that Duke rationally allocated that resources in preparing for what Army has done in the past.

Let me put it another way.

Suppose for the sake of argument that Duke had spent the last two weeks preparing for the forward pass.

Army opens with a pass or two. They fall incomplete.

So, they go back to the triple option and gash Duke for 500 or so yards.

Ouch.

Duke was a 13.5 point favorite against a team that won 10 games last season, one of them against Duke.

Duke won by 20.

I'll take that.

This, exactly.

Cut said after the game that they simply did not practice the pass defense as much because they worked on stopping the option run. Even with the higher than expected number of passes (before we got so far ahead that Army had to pass), the main weapon of Army was the option run.

I am more impressed with the coaching preparation than critical. By a long shot.

I also suspect that defenders play further off receivers against an option because you need to see what is developing. If you play close and jam, you’re back is to the play as you head downfield. That creates a cushion. (Would love to hear on that from someone who knows more about defensive tactics than I do). I noticed our down linemen often played off the line as well.

Faison1
09-02-2018, 12:38 AM
Duke won by 20.

I'll take that.

Without a doubt. 1st game of season. Not NCCU. Nationally televised.

We looked like a solid football team.

As long as I remember losing to Richmond, I will always appreciate everything Coach Cutcliffe is doing for this program.

Devilwin
09-02-2018, 05:33 AM
Here's a stat from the game my wife kept up with, lol. Evidently Army coach Monken is the most handsome man in college football, as the camera panned to him 35 times during the game, to only 7 times to Cut...:eek:

budwom
09-02-2018, 07:48 AM
I haven't seen this anywhere so I'll chime in. I heard on twitter that they were doing a promotion for locals to fill the seats for a nationally televised game. If your order was from a Durm area code, $6.75 got you a GA seat including a food voucher good for chips, fountain drink, and either a hot dog or a veggie burger. I got a bunch thinking I might get out at halftime to a tailgate and re-scan to come in with an unused ticket, plus extra food vouchers for my teen-aged boys. You could print tickets at home but still had to go to will call for the food vouchers...this is where the trouble began.

We couldn't get to the stadium until close to kickoff...and while there are a whole wall of will-call lines there was ONE for the Durham Food Vouchers. I saw 2 but as I got closer realized that one had no one at the window. I had started a nice conversation with a couple of older guys - one was a Duke Forestry grad from the 60s who had been in 'Nam...and realized I was in the 'Heroes' line for veterans only (of which there were 2 - lines, not veterans) so slid over to my right and got in the single Durm line.

To recap - they advertised a great promotion to get butts in the seats, made everyone pick up vouchers and/or tickets at Will Call, and had ONLY A SINGLE LINE. This was incredibly poor planning. Needless to say there were neither burritos nor hot dogs at the concession stand at which we waited in line and they felt bad for us so let us have BBQ sandwiches.

We made it into the stadium after security, etc during Duke's second possession so missed Army's first 2 fumbles and recovery.

And that, ladies and gents, is the first and last game I have/will attend since the renovation, despite living 3 miles from the stadium. I used to go to a handful of games, even when we were putrid (Carl Franks years, anyone? Ted Roof?) because I had friends with a fun tailgate, but the reno obliterated their spot and they weren't offered another spot. Plus taking away re-entry at halftime.

Oh, the game you ask? Probably better viewed from home on TV than from GA seats in the end zone anyway. Maybe it was the game plan but a group of us were very puzzled that the vaunted/hyped D-line were getting no penetration and allowing runs.

/rant


I'm a loyal fan who travels a great distance to see most of the home games, and I totally understand your frustration...just another example (among a zillion I could mention) of Duke's amiable incompetence concerning game day...poor planning and illogic abound...we know it's an uphill climb to woo locals, but it's not going to bear fruit unless they put some people in charge who are smart and motivated.
The concessions are run like a Little League operation, just woefully inept...I had a long talk with an athletic dept. guy about this a few years ago (a young Corrigan of THE Corrigans) and it's just clear they can't get out of their own way.

tteettimes
09-02-2018, 10:14 AM
I remember when they had “Band” day.....high schools bands from across the state
“scout” day.....Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, explourer scouts of all kind.......
With bands there it gave a lot of energy to the place
Whatever....still nothing like having a national contender to make fans fill the place up
I love my Blue Devils
GTHcGTH

HereBeforeCoachK
09-02-2018, 10:21 AM
.just another example (among a zillion I could mention) of Duke's amiable incompetence concerning game day...poor planning and illogic abound...we know it's an uphill climb to woo locals, but it's not going to bear fruit unless they put some people in charge who are smart and motivated.
The concessions are run like a Little League operation, just woefully inept...I had a long talk with an athletic dept. guy about this a few years ago (a young Corrigan of THE Corrigans) and it's just clear they can't get out of their own way.

Quick story: friend of mine came to work at Duke - in parking - a number of years ago after having similar job at U of South Carolina. The one thing he always said is how shocked he was that so many things like this were so poorly done at a school with "a world class" reputation. I saw it first hand as a vendor for Duke Medical for a while. The university seems to try and handle problems by layering bureaucracy on top of bureaucracy....some of the basic logistics are stupidity by committee....

budwom
09-02-2018, 11:32 AM
Quick story: friend of mine came to work at Duke - in parking - a number of years ago after having similar job at U of South Carolina. The one thing he always said is how shocked he was that so many things like this were so poorly done at a school with "a world class" reputation. I saw it first hand as a vendor for Duke Medical for a while. The university seems to try and handle problems by layering bureaucracy on top of bureaucracy...some of the basic logistics are stupidity by committee...

ha, speaking of which: I know that a number of people on this board remember when we tried to tailgate (just before Cut arrived) and for noon games they didn't even open the parking lot gates until 10:30 or 11! Seriously, what way is that to attract a crowd? Furthermore, on several occasions we'd be standing at the locked iron gates (on Wannamaker, after 10:30) and while we could see some parking personnel (low ranking hirelings), they said they could do nothing to open the gates...so we called the Iron Dukes, which started an argument between the Duke Security guys (cops) and the Athletic Dept and some other entity as to whose job it was to open the gates..stood there for about half an hour watching this clown show. One guy came up to us holding the keys to the gate but said he wasn't allowed to open them. D'oh! Meanwhile traffic backed up down the road....

So when Cut was hired, I sent him a nice letter (the paper kind) outlining what he was up against if he wanted a game day following...and being the thorough guy he is, he followed up and made sure the gates opened much much earlier, even for noon games. So there's that...

Still, as Vlad Lenin once asked, what is to be done? As HereBeforeCoach says, Duke (and I know many other universities) has so much bureaucracy that there's a gargantuan inertia for anything to change or get done...I love the fact that colleges aren't businesses per se, but the fact is big time college athletics ARE businesses, and if they want to maximize attendance and attendee happiness, they need to act more like businesses by seeing how they can better compete and improve.

I noted recently that Northwestern is looking at their game day experience, and they're making what they feel are improvements (I'll be there this week to check them out)....one thing apparently is that concessions will no longer be run by volunteer organizations....I think Duke has (may still) used such organizations, and while the people in the booth are extremely pleasant, they are horrifically inefficient...(that led to my Corrigan conversation a few years ago, when Virginia Tech came to town on a sweltering day with a slew of very pleasant fans, and the staff at the concession booth couldn't come close to providing even the most basic of service...it was truly embarrassing for Duke, a place which strives for excellence in a whole lot of other things.

budwom
09-02-2018, 11:38 AM
This, exactly.

Cut said after the game that they simply did not practice the pass defense as much because they worked on stopping the option run. Even with the higher than expected number of passes (before we got so far ahead that Army had to pass), the main weapon of Army was the option run.

I am more impressed with the coaching preparation than critical. By a long shot.

I also suspect that defenders play further off receivers against an option because you need to see what is developing. If you play close and jam, you’re back is to the play as you head downfield. That creates a cushion. (Would love to hear on that from someone who knows more about defensive tactics than I do). I noticed our down linemen often played off the line as well.

I think these are very fair points, but one (at least moi) has to be concerned the number of times in which Gilbert and Carter were abused in single coverage...Gilbert did not have a good game by any standard.
I can understand the loose zone being abused, but we need better play from the CBs.

OldPhiKap
09-02-2018, 11:39 AM
ha, speaking of which: I know that a number of people on this board remember when we tried to tailgate (just before Cut arrived) and for noon games they didn't even open the parking lot gates until 10:30 or 11! Seriously, what way is that to attract a crowd? Furthermore, on several occasions we'd be standing at the locked iron gates (on Wannamaker, after 10:30) and while we could see some parking personnel (low ranking hirelings), they said they could do nothing to open the gates...so we called the Iron Dukes, which started an argument between the Duke Security guys (cops) and the Athletic Dept and some other entity as to whose job it was to open the gates..stood there for about half an hour watching this clown show. One guy came up to us holding the keys to the gate but said he wasn't allowed to open them. D'oh! Meanwhile traffic backed up down the road...

So when Cut was hired, I sent him a nice letter (the paper kind) outlining what he was up against if he wanted a game day following...and being the thorough guy he is, he followed up and made sure the gates opened much much earlier, even for noon games. So there's that...

Still, as Vlad Lenin once asked, what is to be done? As HereBeforeCoach says, Duke (and I know many other universities) has so much bureaucracy that there's a gargantuan inertia for anything to change or get done...I love the fact that colleges aren't businesses per se, but the fact is big time college athletics ARE businesses, and if they want to maximize attendance and attendee happiness, they need to act more like businesses by seeing how they can better compete and improve.

I noted recently that Northwestern is looking at their game day experience, and they're making what they feel are improvements (I'll be there this week to check them out)...one thing apparently is that concessions will no longer be run by volunteer organizations...I think Duke has (may still) used such organizations, and while the people in the booth are extremely pleasant, they are horrifically inefficient...(that led to my Corrigan conversation a few years ago, when Virginia Tech came to town on a sweltering day with a slew of very pleasant fans, and the staff at the concession booth couldn't come close to providing even the most basic of service...it was truly embarrassing for Duke, a place which strives for excellence in a whole lot of other things.

I would think that Kevin White knows how to improve this. Notre Dame has a wonderful pre-game set-up.

Stray Gator
09-02-2018, 11:39 AM
I'm a loyal fan who travels a great distance to see most of the home games, and I totally understand your frustration...just another example (among a zillion I could mention) of Duke's amiable incompetence concerning game day...poor planning and illogic abound...we know it's an uphill climb to woo locals, but it's not going to bear fruit unless they put some people in charge who are smart and motivated.
The concessions are run like a Little League operation, just woefully inept...I had a long talk with an athletic dept. guy about this a few years ago (a young Corrigan of THE Corrigans) and it's just clear they can't get out of their own way.

Just to illustrate the often hilarious indifference of the stadium crew to creating a hospitable game day experience, I'll share what we encountered before the game on Friday evening.

I had ordered an extra pair of tickets for family members to be held at Will Call; but when the family members had to cancel at the last minute, we decided to pick up the extra tickets and see if we could give them away, preferably to a couple of youngsters. So we arrived early and parked in the Grounds Lot as usual, then walked to the nearest gate, where we asked how best to reach the Will Call window. The first security person had no idea. The second directed us to ask another staff member standing inside the gate, which required us to go through the security check to reach him. No problem.

The staff member told us that to pick up the tickets, we would need to go to the same Will Call ticket window that is used for basketball, on the plaza across from the entrance to Cameron. Okay. So we hoofed it towards that area, but were required to go through another security screening line -- which was located no more than 20 yards from the one we had just gone through -- to get over to the steps leading up to the plaza between Cameron and the ticket window. After arriving at the Will Call window and waiting in line to pick up the extra tickets (which we were able to give to two kids whose parents were in another line to buy tickets), we headed back towards the stadium gate where -- you guessed it -- the same young woman who had let us out just minutes earlier required us to go through the security checkpoint for yet a third time.

Finally, we were able to enter the stadium and proceeded along the concourse towards Section 27. But before going down to our seats, we stopped at the concession stand to pick up a bottle of water, a soft drink, and a pack of candy. While waiting patiently in line as the server took orders for multiple items and then carefully retrieved one item at a time, I figured I'd try to expedite the process by adding up the charges for my order so that I could have the exact amount ready to pay. According to the menu board, the three items I was going to order were priced at $5 and $4 and $3, for a total of $12. But when the young man behind the counter finished delivering those items, he told me it would be $13. Never one to squabble over a dollar when others were waiting behind us, I gave him the $13 and told him with a smile that, according to the menu board, my order only came to $12, but he could keep the change. :rolleyes:

Of course, the game itself was great fun, and for us these minor inconveniences were inconsequential. But for a program that seeks to entice more people to attend, the continuing failure to ensure that stadium personnel do their part to promote a pleasant game day atmosphere is perplexing. As others here who made the trip to the game at Notre Dame in 2016 can attest, a stadium crew that is well trained to extend a cordial hand to make fans attending the game feel welcome and appreciated leaves a positive impression that is priceless.

budwom
09-02-2018, 11:49 AM
^ so easy to believe, Stray. A few years ago I was invited to sit up in the Tower for a game, and we literally had to ask five or six official usher types where the entrance was, they had no clue whatsoever. Finally I believe a fan told us.

HereBeforeCoachK
09-02-2018, 11:54 AM
I would think that Kevin White knows how to improve this. Notre Dame has a wonderful pre-game set-up.

He better....game attendance is the single worst most embarrassing part of Duke football right now, and it's not even close. We have good coaches, good players, a reasonably good stadium, and been to bowls in 5 of the last 6.

With a small alum base and student body, Duke needs to do everything right to maximize the crowd. Sounds like Duke is doing everything wrong - all because a few bureaucratic Barney Fife's are not able to be over ruled by anyone with sense.

I live at the beach. I've thought about traveling into Durham for some games. Not any more. I'll watch from the comfort of home.

Listen to Quants
09-02-2018, 12:12 PM
The first down count was only 19 to 18 in Duke's favor. The yardage count was only 381 to 365 in Duke's favor. Usually you'd like to see bigger margins in those two stats when playing at home as two TD favorites.

Good to win the first game, lots to be excited about, but also lots to improve.

True, but there are other stats that, I believe, correlate better with winning, Yards/attempt being a nice one, and comforting to a Duke fan.


(The table may display badly, but the msg is simple, Duke's yrds/attmp were excellent for run and pass, Army's less so)

------------------- Army Duke
Yards per pass -- 9.4 11.6
Rushing --------- 168 184
Rushing Attempts 47 35
Yards per rush -- 3.6 5.3

killerleft
09-02-2018, 12:22 PM
Quick story: friend of mine came to work at Duke - in parking - a number of years ago after having similar job at U of South Carolina. The one thing he always said is how shocked he was that so many things like this were so poorly done at a school with "a world class" reputation. I saw it first hand as a vendor for Duke Medical for a while. The university seems to try and handle problems by layering bureaucracy on top of bureaucracy...some of the basic logistics are stupidity by committee...

South Carolina does a superb job on game day. My experience was during the 1980s, when Steve Slayden quarterbacked Duke. Never mind, if things have changed. From parking before, to de-parking after, things go very smoothly. I know it helps that Williams-Brice Stadium isn't on the campus, but from what I could tell, virtually all of the local roads are set up to go one way into the stadium area before the game, and, of course, one way away from the area after the game. Pretty sure they didn't rely on traffic lights as set up for non-game days, either.:rolleyes:

I wish our fans (en masse, I know we have some great fans) were as passionate about football as are the Gamecock faithful. I remember walking through the adjacent fairgrounds parking, and every tailgate party seemed to have the Clemson game tuned in. When Clemson lost on a good play by the opposition, a great cheer went up. I wonder if they do that now, when possible. Clempsum doesn't lose much anymore.

Devil in the Blue Dress
09-02-2018, 12:29 PM
ha, speaking of which: I know that a number of people on this board remember when we tried to tailgate (just before Cut arrived) and for noon games they didn't even open the parking lot gates until 10:30 or 11! Seriously, what way is that to attract a crowd? Furthermore, on several occasions we'd be standing at the locked iron gates (on Wannamaker, after 10:30) and while we could see some parking personnel (low ranking hirelings), they said they could do nothing to open the gates...so we called the Iron Dukes, which started an argument between the Duke Security guys (cops) and the Athletic Dept and some other entity as to whose job it was to open the gates..stood there for about half an hour watching this clown show. One guy came up to us holding the keys to the gate but said he wasn't allowed to open them. D'oh! Meanwhile traffic backed up down the road...

So when Cut was hired, I sent him a nice letter (the paper kind) outlining what he was up against if he wanted a game day following...and being the thorough guy he is, he followed up and made sure the gates opened much much earlier, even for noon games. So there's that...

Still, as Vlad Lenin once asked, what is to be done? As HereBeforeCoach says, Duke (and I know many other universities) has so much bureaucracy that there's a gargantuan inertia for anything to change or get done...I love the fact that colleges aren't businesses per se, but the fact is big time college athletics ARE businesses, and if they want to maximize attendance and attendee happiness, they need to act more like businesses by seeing how they can better compete and improve.

I noted recently that Northwestern is looking at their game day experience, and they're making what they feel are improvements (I'll be there this week to check them out)...one thing apparently is that concessions will no longer be run by volunteer organizations...I think Duke has (may still) used such organizations, and while the people in the booth are extremely pleasant, they are horrifically inefficient...(that led to my Corrigan conversation a few years ago, when Virginia Tech came to town on a sweltering day with a slew of very pleasant fans, and the staff at the concession booth couldn't come close to providing even the most basic of service...it was truly embarrassing for Duke, a place which strives for excellence in a whole lot of other things.

Remember the Army game in the hurricane? I waited in my car until almost time for the gates to open, then walked to what used to be the North Gate. The rain was so hard that seeing was difficult; the wind was blowing in a direction that guaranteed getting soaked despite wearing a rain suit. When I got to the gate, there were 3 others waiting to get in. We waited for 7 minutes (past the time to open) while the hirelings watched us. No supervisor was willing to authorize opening the gates so that four people could seek shelter. Sad and incompetent.

uh_no
09-02-2018, 12:30 PM
I would think that Kevin White knows how to improve this. Notre Dame has a wonderful pre-game set-up.

after 10 years, how much longer do we need to wait?

(I'm not advocating firing Dr. White, just that suggesting that NOW, after a decade he'll finally look into fixing some of these long standing issues is a bit of a fools hope)

HereBeforeCoachK
09-02-2018, 12:34 PM
South Carolina does a superb job on game day. My experience was during the 1980s, when Steve Slayden quarterbacked Duke. Never mind, if things have changed. From parking before, to de-parking after, things go very smoothly. I know it helps that Williams-Brice Stadium isn't on the campus, but from what I could tell, virtually all of the local roads are set up to go one way into the stadium area before the game, and, of course, one way away from the area after the game. Pretty sure they didn't rely on traffic lights as set up for non-game days, either.:rolleyes:

I wish our fans (en masse, I know we have some great fans) were as passionate about football as are the Gamecock faithful. I remember walking through the adjacent fairgrounds parking, and every tailgate party seemed to have the Clemson game tuned in. When Clemson lost on a good play by the opposition, a great cheer went up. I wonder if they do that now, when possible. Clempsum doesn't lose much anymore.

I lived 11 years in Columbia area....saw a lot of games at Williams Brice...and yeah, they are pros. At night, it's one of the best atmospheres in college football. People in NC have no idea what a Clemson SC atmosphere in football is....just like people in SC have no idea what UNC at Cameron is like.

Williams Brice is about a mile or two off campus...but that means all the students have to drive as well as others...but tailgating areas are open many hours before and after games for those who would rather have another cocktail and piece of Bojangles instead of sitting in traffic.

Devil in the Blue Dress
09-02-2018, 12:37 PM
I would think that Kevin White knows how to improve this. Notre Dame has a wonderful pre-game set-up.

I wish that were what's happened. Dr. White has been at Duke for several years. Some of the worst debacles in security and concessions have occurred during that time. This mess has gone on so long, I'm not sure what it will take to create the cultural change which is required.

Friday night for a brief time the Jumbotron had the words to one of the fight song running while the band played the song... something I've requested for years. Just as people were beginning to join in, the words went away and were replaced by ads and other unrelated stuff. This was during the band's halftime show.

Planting flowers and beautifying the facilities are just window dressing if no other changes occur.

HereBeforeCoachK
09-02-2018, 12:39 PM
This mess has gone on so long, I'm not sure what it will take to create the cultural change which is required.



Two people can get it changed...Coach K or Coach Cut. But of course, it's not their job to handle this...but they're probably the only two people on campus with the stroke to do it. And I'll guarantee you Saban could get something like this ironed out in Alabama in 48 hours....Dabo at Clemson too...it's inexcusable, a really silly self inflicted wound.

Devil in the Blue Dress
09-02-2018, 12:44 PM
Two people can get it changed...Coach K or Coach Cut. But of course, it's not their job to handle this...but they're probably the only two people on campus with the stroke to do it.

The sad thing is that this sort of futile foolishness is common in so many aspects of how Duke operates all over the Durham campuses. It was apparent back in the sixties when I was a student and has been continued by each new herd of administrators who arrive from the Ivies and elsewhere with no knowledge of Duke or its history. They come in, scramble a vision and then leave.

HereBeforeCoachK
09-02-2018, 12:46 PM
The sad thing is that this sort of futile foolishness is common in so many aspects of how Duke operates all over the Durham campuses. It was apparent back in the sixties when I was a student and has been continued by each new herd of administrators who arrive from the Ivies and elsewhere with no knowledge of Duke or its history. They come in, scramble a vision and then leave.

Yes, my company had a relationship with Duke Med Center parking....it was a cluster....and every bureaucrat they added made it worse. And they added several layers during the five years or so my company was involved.

And I've experienced the cluster at Wally Wade first hand....and on DBR heard about the cluster vis a vis the student section for a Cheats game!!!! - and I just SMH. How can they do something so simple so poorly....for decades on end?

uh_no
09-02-2018, 01:04 PM
Just to illustrate the often hilarious indifference of the stadium crew to creating a hospitable game day experience, I'll share what we encountered before the game on Friday evening.

I had ordered an extra pair of tickets for family members to be held at Will Call; but when the family members had to cancel at the last minute, we decided to pick up the extra tickets and see if we could give them away, preferably to a couple of youngsters. So we arrived early and parked in the Grounds Lot as usual, then walked to the nearest gate, where we asked how best to reach the Will Call window. The first security person had no idea. The second directed us to ask another staff member standing inside the gate, which required us to go through the security check to reach him. No problem.

The staff member told us that to pick up the tickets, we would need to go to the same Will Call ticket window that is used for basketball, on the plaza across from the entrance to Cameron. Okay. So we hoofed it towards that area, but were required to go through another security screening line -- which was located no more than 20 yards from the one we had just gone through -- to get over to the steps leading up to the plaza between Cameron and the ticket window. After arriving at the Will Call window and waiting in line to pick up the extra tickets (which we were able to give to two kids whose parents were in another line to buy tickets), we headed back towards the stadium gate where -- you guessed it -- the same young woman who had let us out just minutes earlier required us to go through the security checkpoint for yet a third time.

Finally, we were able to enter the stadium and proceeded along the concourse towards Section 27. But before going down to our seats, we stopped at the concession stand to pick up a bottle of water, a soft drink, and a pack of candy. While waiting patiently in line as the server took orders for multiple items and then carefully retrieved one item at a time, I figured I'd try to expedite the process by adding up the charges for my order so that I could have the exact amount ready to pay. According to the menu board, the three items I was going to order were priced at $5 and $4 and $3, for a total of $12. But when the young man behind the counter finished delivering those items, he told me it would be $13. Never one to squabble over a dollar when others were waiting behind us, I gave him the $13 and told him with a smile that, according to the menu board, my order only came to $12, but he could keep the change. :rolleyes:

Of course, the game itself was great fun, and for us these minor inconveniences were inconsequential. But for a program that seeks to entice more people to attend, the continuing failure to ensure that stadium personnel do their part to promote a pleasant game day atmosphere is perplexing. As others here who made the trip to the game at Notre Dame in 2016 can attest, a stadium crew that is well trained to extend a cordial hand to make fans attending the game feel welcome and appreciated leaves a positive impression that is priceless.


As someone who is on gameday staff, I just want to give a little bit of insight.

As of 2016, there were several organizations at play. The ones most people will be familiar with are the athletics department, the volunteers who staff the food stands, the police department, university facilities people, and Staff 1. As you can imagine from such a list alone, coordination between so many moving parts is a logistical challenge. At the time, Staff1 was doing almost ALL security and hospitality jobs, including parking attendants, gate and field security, and ushering. I don't know the exact number, but I recall that the athletics department required something like 180 people from Staff1. While there are some really good people working for them, and some regulars, a good number of the employees (most?) are doing this to pick up a few bucks when they otherwise might not have another shift elsewhere. That is a huge amount of people to staff for 6 one-off afternoons a year, and as you can imagine, there is a huge amount of turnover from season to season, and game to game.

Last year, another organization was thrown into the mix when Rhino (who specializes in hospitality) replaced staff 1 at most hospitality positions (ushers) and Staff 1 solely did security. In theory, this reduces the load on any one organization, and allows each organization to focus on what they specialize in. The challenge is that there is yet ANOTHER moving piece. This becomes a challenge when you have all sorts of "complications"

- promotions that give people free food or some other such
- ever changing security measures that come down from ?
- changing game times which change logistics around the campus

So it's very easy to see why of the hundreds of random people coming in to work the game, not every single one of them knows everything. I am generally less logistically challenged, but still find many times when I have literally no idea. At friday's game, there were multiple times I heard calls on the radio asking about certain classes of tickets and where they could be redeemed or exchanged...I would simply have no idea. Heck, half the time I hardly know where I'M supposed to enter the stadium. When you're worried about simply finding enough bodies to work the game, how can you possibly worry about also ensuring that every one of them knows everything about the stadium, and every of the changing nuances each week? The organizations TRY, but it's monumental. Half the time I'm sure THEY don't even know what crazy promotions the athletics department may have put out.

Obviously, you can look at any situation and come up with a dozen reasons it could have been alleviated.

- the security person could have know where will call was
- the security person could have fetched the employee instead of making you go through security
- the security person could have had a radio
- you could be able to get to will call without going through security

but almost all of them require regular and reasonable staff members who feel enabled to make things right. Do I blame someone plucked off the street to fulfill a personnel quota for not knowing where will call is? Not really. Do I blame the employee who was told they have to stay at their security post no matter what for not going to fetch the other staff person? no. What it ultimately comes down to is you get what you pay for. If you don't want to deal with these things, you have to NOT simply go with the cheapest organizations you can find. You need to pay to ensure you get regular people working the games. You need to have an actual concessions organization.

That's why the volunteer organization I'm part of is so valuable to Rhino...because they know we've been doing this consistently for nearly half a century. They know we'll be there and are there because we want duke fans to have a great experience...we're not there for the money...that's why we donate it all. But you'd be hard pressed to find a couple hundred people on a football game day who feel similarly at the expense the department is willing to put out. When push comes to shove, all that matters is the bottom line, and while it's easy to quantify the amount that the department pays for staff, it's far harder to quantify all the people who don't show up at all because of experiences like yours.

I feel you. I just don't think it's going to change, which is a damn shame for the boys on the field.

Indoor66
09-02-2018, 01:37 PM
Is the logistics of a football game crowd management - from tickets to security to concessions - rocket science? I do not understand the difficulty other than MASSIVE not caring and incompetence. Where are all of the University resident geniuses?

uh_no
09-02-2018, 01:39 PM
University resident geniuses?

generally worrying about salient issues.

sagegrouse
09-02-2018, 02:06 PM
Is the logistics of a football game crowd management - from tickets to security to concessions - rocket science? I do not understand the difficulty other than MASSIVE not caring and incompetence. Where are all of the University resident geniuses?

Lessee.... six or seven games a year. Reliance, of necessity, on a temp work force with rapid turnover. Evolving set of requirements, especially on security, which has grown (in my personal view) since NBA commish Adam Silver joined the Duke Board of Trustees. Budwom's reference to not getting directions to the tower was possibly occasioned by the ongoing state of construction -- it was a maze for a while.

Basketball operations seem to work pretty well. Of course, the long-time ushers love to watch Duke basketball; can't yet say that football has the same attraction, although let's be thankful for Uh No's participation.

budwom
09-02-2018, 02:10 PM
Interesting post by uh no. Appreciate what (s)he says. What seems to be missing, though, is a central figure of responsibility, a guy (or woman) in charge. A czar. Stuff will continue to muddle on without improvement unless someone is given the task of fixing it, and we don't seem to have any inkling of that happening.

It's sad that so many of very loyal fans have persevered thru so much of this crap...to me, it's kind of a given, something I expect. But it's depressing when we consider why more fans aren't coming to the games.
It can be done properly as others have shown. (I suspect the game day experience is pretty swell for most of the figures of authority, e.g. Kevin White: drive to game, park in special parking spot, sashay to nice seat in Tower, get food and beverage there). Do you/we think he knows how dysfunctional the experience can be?

Maybe I'll write another note to a guy on Cut's administrative staff...

Devil in the Blue Dress
09-02-2018, 02:24 PM
Interesting post by uh no. Appreciate what (s)he says. What seems to be missing, though, is a central figure of responsibility, a guy (or woman) in charge. A czar. Stuff will continue to muddle on without improvement unless someone is given the task of fixing it, and we don't seem to have any inkling of that happening.

It's sad that so many of very loyal fans have persevered thru so much of this crap...to me, it's kind of a given, something I expect. But it's depressing when we consider why more fans aren't coming to the games.
It can be done properly as others have shown. (I suspect the game day experience is pretty swell for most of the figures of authority, e.g. Kevin White: drive to game, park in special parking spot, sashay to nice seat in Tower, get food and beverage there). Do you/we think he knows how dysfunctional the experience can be?

Maybe I'll write another note to a guy on Cut's administrative staff...

I wrote to Dr. White a few times about a variety of problems. He always turned such matters over to an underling followed by no response from anyone.

Coach Cutcliffe's chief of staff is Kevin Lehman. kevin.lehman@duke.edu Perhaps hearing from a number of people (such as the DBR posters) would get Kevin's attention.

budwom
09-02-2018, 02:30 PM
I wrote to Dr. White a few times about a variety of problems. He always turned such matters over to an underling followed by no response from anyone.

Coach Cutcliffe's chief of staff is Kevin Lehman. kevin.lehman@duke.edu Perhaps hearing from a number of people (such as the DBR posters) would get Kevin's attention.

Ha, I just located his name moments ago, he seems like the guy. ONLY if someone like him is persuaded of the problem and then persuades Cut that there IS a problem will anything happen...I agree, Kevin White ain't gonna do it...
p.s. the storm and the airline spared me the Army experience, I've heard multiple horror stories...

HereBeforeCoachK
09-02-2018, 02:52 PM
Is the logistics of a football game crowd management - from tickets to security to concessions - rocket science? I do not understand the difficulty other than MASSIVE not caring and incompetence. Where are all of the University resident geniuses?

It's either brain science or rocket surgery....not sure which...:)

I guess handling 20 thousand people is a lot harder than handling 70-80-90 thousand. That's why we can't match Notre Dame, S Carolina, Clemson, Bama, to name just a few......

budwom
09-02-2018, 02:56 PM
It's either brain science or rocket surgery...not sure which...:)

I guess handling 20 thousand people is a lot harder than handling 70-80-90 thousand. That's why we can't match Notre Dame, S Carolina, Clemson, Bama, to name just a few...

I think the deal is that if you mishandle 80,000 people, you'll have some real messes to deal with and 80k unhappy people can create a ruckus...I guess Duke has not yet hit critical mass on aggrieved fans...

uh_no
09-02-2018, 03:01 PM
I think the deal is that if you mishandle 80,000 people, you'll have some real messes to deal with and 80k unhappy people can create a ruckus...I guess Duke has not yet hit critical mass on aggrieved fans...

Because at duke, not showing up is far preferable than showing up and causing a ruckus. At ND, not showing up is not an option.

(note: anything expressed here is my own opinion and may not reflect that of Rhino or Duke or the athletics department or anyone else it might be construed to represent)

HereBeforeCoachK
09-02-2018, 03:04 PM
I think the deal is that if you mishandle 80,000 people, you'll have some real messes to deal with and 80k unhappy people can create a ruckus...I guess Duke has not yet hit critical mass on aggrieved fans...

well....it's the empty seats that have hit critical mass. It's the recruits we don't get because those empty seats stare you in the face on TV that has probably hit critical mass. Just as the amazing atmosphere in Cameron draws recruits, Wade's empty seats repel them.

One thing that infuriates me about myself, my family, or institutions I care about...are self inflicted wounds...unnecessary wounds. Duke faces a massive demographic uphill challenge in football. Cut has done wonders....everything is way upgraded...but the crowds are only a little better, and the logistics are apparently worse than ever.

arnie
09-02-2018, 03:12 PM
I wrote to Dr. White a few times about a variety of problems. He always turned such matters over to an underling followed by no response from anyone.

Coach Cutcliffe's chief of staff is Kevin Lehman. kevin.lehman@duke.edu Perhaps hearing from a number of people (such as the DBR posters) would get Kevin's attention.

Having experienced numerous other Duke opponent gamedays in past decades, Duke’s setup and operation falls far short. I’ve quit going to most Duke games, partly because of noon starts, but primarily the reasons discussed above. I really don’t think Duke admin cares about the fan experience; they simply understand we must host football games to remain in the ACC. It’s like they can check off the box; we had a game, hired some staff, the game ended and no one blew up the stadium.

Devil in the Blue Dress
09-02-2018, 03:13 PM
Because at duke, not showing up is far preferable than showing up and causing a ruckus. At ND, not showing up is not an option.

(note: anything expressed here is my own opinion and may not reflect that of Rhino or Duke or the athletics department or anyone else it might be construed to represent)

A very apt description of the Duke way! Ditto regarding ND

It's a shame that no one at Duke has taken ownership of this problem. It's the sequel to "The Emperor's New Clothes."

Reilly
09-02-2018, 06:46 PM
Cut's review: http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211770334&DB_OEM_ID=4200

jimsumner
09-02-2018, 07:29 PM
If you don't like noon starts, consider the poor folks at Northwestern. This Saturday's game starts at 11 A.M. local time. Scrambled eggs and toast for tailgate?

Indoor66
09-02-2018, 07:42 PM
If you don't like noon starts, consider the poor folks at Northwestern. This Saturday's game starts at 11 A.M. local time. Scrambled eggs and toast for tailgate?

Nah. That's Chicago. Pizza! 🤣😋😎