Do You Know The Black Falcon's Stats?

[Rich]

Skylar Diggins does and she's not too happy about it: I’m the highest paid player on the Dallas Wings, and my salary is in the low six figures. [Harrison Barnes, the highest paid player on the Dallas Mavericks, made $24 million last season.] He’s definitely younger than me. Do you know his stats? Was he an All-Star? I mean, it doesn’t matter. But last year, I was First Team All-WNBA, which only goes to five players. I was also a WNBA All-Star for the third time.

Always fun to see a Carolina guy get what he deserves, but especially Barnes.

https://sports.yahoo.com/skylar-diggins-compares-her-salary-180401589.html citing https://www.wealthsimple.com/en-us/magazine/money-diary-skylar-diggins-smith-us

[JNort]

Skylar Diggins does and she's not too happy about it: I’m the highest paid player on the Dallas Wings, and my salary is in the low six figures. [Harrison Barnes, the highest paid player on the Dallas Mavericks, made $24 million last season.] He’s definitely younger than me. Do you know his stats? Was he an All-Star? I mean, it doesn’t matter. But last year, I was First Team All-WNBA, which only goes to five players. I was also a WNBA All-Star for the third time.

Always fun to see a Carolina guy get what he deserves, but especially Barnes.

https://sports.yahoo.com/skylar-diggins-compares-her-salary-180401589.html citing https://www.wealthsimple.com/en-us/magazine/money-diary-skylar-diggins-smith-us

Her point about Barnes is irrelevant. However what seems to be the problem is fault of the players association for not striking a better deal.

[CDu]

Her point about Barnes is irrelevant. However what seems to be the problem is fault of the players association for not striking a better deal.

Well, that and the fact that the WNBA has about 1/100th of the annual revenue (~$60 million) that the NBA does (~$6 billion). So even if the WNBAPA had struck a deal equal to the NBA deal (roughly a 50/50 revenue split), their players would still be getting salaries about 100 times lower than NBA salaries. It sucks for them, but there just isn’t the market demand for the WNBA to provide salaries like NBA players. For reference, Barnes’ salary last year was roughly 40% of the revenue total for the entire WNBA.

[awhom111]

Her point about Barnes is irrelevant. However what seems to be the problem is fault of the players association for not striking a better deal.

The players are about to opt out of the current CBA, making it expire after the 2019 season. Expect a steady diet of players speaking out before negotiations really start in an effort to get the public on their side. Some of the players really seem to know what they are doing in this regard, but some people are actually making incorrect statements intentionally or not.

Interestingly enough, the player whose stats Barnes resemble apparently is Diggins.

[rocketeli]

The players are about to opt out of the current CBA, making it expire after the 2019 season. Expect a steady diet of players speaking out before negotiations really start in an effort to get the public on their side. Some of the players really seem to know what they are doing in this regard, but some people are actually making incorrect statements intentionally or not.

Interestingly enough, the player whose stats Barnes resemble apparently is Diggins.

I think that's her point.

[Spanarkel]

well, that and the fact that the wnba has about 1/100th of the annual revenue (~$60 million) that the nba does (~$6 billion). So even if the wnbapa had struck a deal equal to the nba deal (roughly a 50/50 revenue split), their players would still be getting salaries about 100 times lower than nba salaries. It sucks for them, but there just isn’t the market demand for the wnba to provide salaries like nba players. For reference, barnes’ salary last year was roughly 40% of the revenue total for the entire wnba.

It's the WNBPA.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Well, that and the fact that the WNBA has about 1/100th of the annual revenue (~$60 million) that the NBA does (~$6 billion). So even if the WNBAPA had struck a deal equal to the NBA deal (roughly a 50/50 revenue split), their players would still be getting salaries about 100 times lower than NBA salaries. It sucks for them, but there just isn’t the market demand for the WNBA to provide salaries like NBA players. For reference, Barnes’ salary last year was roughly 40% of the revenue total for the entire WNBA.

This ^ is why her comments were nonsensical. I doubt the WNBA can even be profitable on their own. I think the NBA affiliates provide some, or all, of the infrastructure for these teams (offices, arenas in some cases, etc), and leverage for what TV contracts they get. As far as a revenue split....the players can't get anything like the 50-50, because the revenue doesn't cover costs to begin with. It's basic economics.

[UrinalCake]

Yeah I don’t really think her argument has much basis. If this was tennis or soccer where the ratings and generated revenue for the women’s sports are equal or in some cases greater than the men, then arguing for equal pay would make sense.

Harrison Barnes sucks, I don’t know how in the world he signed a max contract. He was almost single-handedly responsible for GS missing out on another title, bricking wide open threes that whole finals.

[Troublemaker]

This ^ is why her comments were nonsensical. I doubt the WNBA can even be profitable on their own. I think the NBA affiliates provide some, or all, of the infrastructure for these teams (offices, arenas in some cases, etc), and leverage for what TV contracts they get. As far as a revenue split...the players can't get anything like the 50-50, because the revenue doesn't cover costs to begin with. It's basic economics.

Not necessarily, because Diggins never commented on the finances of the two leagues.

It's quite possible her pleading amounts to, "Dallas area basketball fans, come watch me play in the WNBA. I'm a much better player than that overpaid, overrated max contract "star" Harrison Barnes, and you'll enjoy watching me more than that cipher with a max contract."

I could definitely get behind that.

Also, it's possible I'm being generous with my interpretation of Diggins' comments. Morning coffee makes me happy!

[Bluedog]

Yeah I don’t really think her argument has much basis. If this was tennis or soccer where the ratings and generated revenue for the women’s sports are equal or in some cases greater than the men, then arguing for equal pay would make sense.

Harrison Barnes sucks, I don’t know how in the world he signed a max contract. He was almost single-handedly responsible for GS missing out on another title, bricking wide open threes that whole finals.

US Women's Soccer players get paid significantly less than their male counterparts...(I realize you didn't necessarily say they don't, so my statement isn't contrary to yours, just pointing out the result).

I think tennis it the only major sport (where pros can make a significant amount of money) where men and women make the same (at the Grand Slams at least) or even close to it. But it's REALLY hard to separate out how much interest/revenue the separate genders drive in tennis because they play at the SAME EVENT with the SAME TV DEAL and they've been doing that from the beginning. (And as a tennis player, I love that tennis is really the only sport that does this. I realize you can look at U.S. TV Ratings on a match basis and attendance figures on site. But U.S. TV ratings would also show women's World Cup Final with the U.S. in it is a bigger draw possibly that the Men's Final without the U.S...There obviously can be more interest in the U.S. when a U.S. player/team is involved. And the U.S. isn't the only country in the world so other nations drive revenue/demand). But if basketball had men and women play on the same court, with scheduling TBD until shortly ahead of time (people had to buy tickets for everything) and all the games intermixed, I bet the interest and "revenue generated by women's basketball" would be much higher. Obviously, I understand their are logistical differences between a team sport in a league with a 82-game schedule and an individual tournament that occurs for a couple weeks, so this is just a theoretical exercise.

And, to bring it back to Barnes, everybody knew that they were fools to give him a max contract. I was very happy that he went away from GS though as don't want him to get any more rings.

[OldPhiKap]

US Women's Soccer players get paid significantly less than their male counterparts...

Which is sad, considering the USWNT is a heck of a lot more entertaining and satisfying than the USMNT. And they have the hardware to prove it.

Harrison Barnes sucks almost as much as King Rice. Al-most.

[JNort]

Which is sad, considering the USWNT is a heck of a lot more entertaining and satisfying than the USMNT. And they have the hardware to prove it.

Harrison Barnes sucks almost as much as King Rice. Al-most.

I love the womens team but I prefer the better players which is the men's team. The passing is crisper, the shots harder, the speed is faster, etc...

[OldPhiKap]

I love the womens team but I prefer the better players which is the men's team. The passing is crisper, the shots harder, the speed is faster, etc...

Women's soccer and women's tennis are the two sports that I enjoy watching equally. I would like to like women's basketball or softball but they just don't grab me. (I don't really watch golf anymore, but women's golf is about even with men's golf for me too I guess).

While the men's soccer team may be more athletic, I have trouble watching it because I watch a lot of EPL. There are probably half a dozen teams in England that can beat our entire national squad on a consistent basis. The cities of Manchester and London each have more collective talent taking the pitch on a given weekend than our men's team seems able to muster.

I'd take Liverpool over USMNT.

[Acymetric]

Women's soccer and women's tennis are the two sports that I enjoy watching equally. I would like to like women's basketball or softball but they just don't grab me. (I don't really watch golf anymore, but women's golf is about even with men's golf for me too I guess).

While the men's soccer team may be more athletic, I have trouble watching it because I watch a lot of EPL. There are probably half a dozen teams in England that can beat our entire national squad on a consistent basis. The cities of Manchester and London each have more collective talent taking the pitch on a given weekend than our men's team seems able to muster.

I'd take Liverpool over USMNT.

In fairness, that is true for most international squads relative to even average EPL teams (I would take Liverpool over all but maybe the 10 best international squads, at least, and maybe even fewer than that), because it is easier to consolidate talent to the elite squads when you don't also have to account for national origin (and their are fewer "elite" professional leagues/squads to share top players than there are international teams). Our women's soccer team sees so much success because the majority of top women's soccer talent tends to come from here (and a few other countries) so we get somewhat of an all-star team when we put together our international squad, which obviously is not the case on the men's side.

My hypothesis is that sports that rely on "skill" to create an attractive/entertaining performance will tend to be more equal in terms of fan interest between men/women (tennis, golf, and to a lesser extent soccer would fall more into the skill category to me), whereas sports where the bigger draw tends to be raw displays of athleticism will tend to favor the men's side more, with some gray area as most sports are a blend of both and different people will have their own spectrum of preferences (the person who likes to see good "fundamentals" in basketball, vs. the person who wants to see Maggette slap the backboard and throw down a huge dunk to show the two extreme ends of that spectrum).

[elvis14]

Let's not forget that Harry Barnes really sucks. He was the #1 overall recruit. Got held back by UNCheat and had to play there multiple years. Got carried by the big 3 in GS until he finally proved to be THE boat anchor that sank their ship (that and LeBron suspending Draymond). I know there is and should be a big difference between the men's and women's NBA salaries but I can understand how a player could look at Harry Skype's salary and be sickened. He sucks.

Anyone see the highlights from last night's WNBA game where someone made the mistake of clapping at Diana Taurasi? At the end of the game as Taurasi dribbled out the clock she was yelling "Who's clapping now?". I don't watch much WNBA but that was awesome.

As for soccer, I much prefer the women's game. I love watching the UNWNT and the NC Courage. Of course I have 2 daughters in HS that play and I've coached them both for years on and off and I'm currently coaching my youngest daughters team (meaning I have a bias and admit to it). The mens game is almost unwatchable because of the fake injuries and flopping. When they clean that up, the game might gain some traction in the US (need casual fans not just die hards). Until then, I'll watch the women play. How did the US Men's national team to in the World Cup this year?

[OldPhiKap]

Let's not forget that Harry Barnes really sucks. He was the #1 overall recruit. Got held back by UNCheat and had to play there multiple years. Got carried by the big 3 in GS until he finally proved to be THE boat anchor that sank their ship (that and LeBron suspending Draymond). I know there is and should be a big difference between the men's and women's NBA salaries but I can understand how a player could look at Harry Skype's salary and be sickened. He sucks.

Anyone see the highlights from last night's WNBA game where someone made the mistake of clapping at Diana Taurasi? At the end of the game as Taurasi dribbled out the clock she was yelling "Who's clapping now?". I don't watch much WNBA but that was awesome.

As for soccer, I much prefer the women's game. I love watching the UNWNT and the NC Courage. Of course I have 2 daughters in HS that play and I've coached them both for years on and off and I'm currently coaching my youngest daughters team (meaning I have a bias and admit to it). The mens game is almost unwatchable because of the fake injuries and flopping. When they clean that up, the game might gain some traction in the US (need casual fans not just die hards). Until then, I'll watch the women play. How did the US Men's national team to in the World Cup this year?

Populations:

England: 55,268,100 (2016)
France: 67,186,638 (2017)
Belgium: 11,150,516 (2014)
Croatia : 4,284,889 (2011)


US: 325,245,963 (2017)

Agree too that the flopping, while rampant with the men, does not seem nearly as bad in the women's game.


And, most importantly, the amount of Harrison Barnes' suckitude cannot be overstated. Just a whisker below King Rice.

[superdave]

Well, that and the fact that the WNBA has about 1/100th of the annual revenue (~$60 million) that the NBA does (~$6 billion). So even if the WNBAPA had struck a deal equal to the NBA deal (roughly a 50/50 revenue split), their players would still be getting salaries about 100 times lower than NBA salaries. It sucks for them, but there just isn’t the market demand for the WNBA to provide salaries like NBA players. For reference, Barnes’ salary last year was roughly 40% of the revenue total for the entire WNBA.

Does the NBA subsidize the WNBA?

[UrinalCake]

I think tennis it the only major sport (where pros can make a significant amount of money) where men and women make the same (at the Grand Slams at least) or even close to it. But it's REALLY hard to separate out how much interest/revenue the separate genders drive in tennis because they play at the SAME EVENT with the SAME TV DEAL and they've been doing that from the beginning.

A major difference (which I know you are aware of but the non-tennis fans may not) is that women play best-of-3 sets whereas men play best-of-5. So men can argue that they are performing more work and providing more of a product. But the women’s players association or whatever the equivalent would be in tennis fought hard for equal pay several years ago and won. The US women’s soccer team tried to do so recently as well, pointing out their massive success rate as compared to the US men’s team, but I don’t believe they gained much traction in that battle.

The other factor is that viewership of women’s tennis is driven partially by actual athletic performance but also largely by, shall we say, more aesthetic reasons. There is a boundary between competition and entertainment that is hard to define. But regardless of the reason, if they’re delivering ratings then they should be paid accordingly.

Also, Harrison Barnes sucks.

[devildeac]

A major difference (which I know you are aware of but the non-tennis fans may not) is that women play best-of-3 sets whereas men play best-of-5. So men can argue that they are performing more work and providing more of a product. But the women’s players association or whatever the equivalent would be in tennis fought hard for equal pay several years ago and won. The US women’s soccer team tried to do so recently as well, pointing out their massive success rate as compared to the US men’s team, but I don’t believe they gained much traction in that battle.

The other factor is that viewership of women’s tennis is driven partially by actual athletic performance but also largely by, shall we say, more aesthetic reasons. There is a boundary between competition and entertainment that is hard to define. But regardless of the reason, if they’re delivering ratings then they should be paid accordingly.

Also, Harrison Barnes sucks.

QFE.

Could only spork UC for his claim that HB sucks because I was unable to spork elvis14 and OPK (they're both 1000% correct, too) due to lack of promiscuity on my part. I'll try to become more unchaste.:o

(and yes, I realize that if the letter "s" is omitted from unchaste if forms one of my favorite expressions:D)

[UrinalCake]

Looks like a max contract player to me!


https://youtu.be/OKgppbtgA_I

[Highlander]

You must spread some comments around before thanking UrinalCake for that brilliant video of Harrison Barns missing again, and again, and again.

Reminds me of when I went to a Bobcats game back when they had Felton and May. They got killed, and I loved watching those guys lose. Contemplated getting season tickets just to watch it.

[CDu]

A major difference (which I know you are aware of but the non-tennis fans may not) is that women play best-of-3 sets whereas men play best-of-5. So men can argue that they are performing more work and providing more of a product. But the women’s players association or whatever the equivalent would be in tennis fought hard for equal pay several years ago and won. The US women’s soccer team tried to do so recently as well, pointing out their massive success rate as compared to the US men’s team, but I don’t believe they gained much traction in that battle.

The other factor is that viewership of women’s tennis is driven partially by actual athletic performance but also largely by, shall we say, more aesthetic reasons. There is a boundary between competition and entertainment that is hard to define. But regardless of the reason, if they’re delivering ratings then they should be paid accordingly.

And herein lies the issue. The NBA makes WAY more money than the WNBA. Even if the WNBA players were paid the same proportion of revenue as the NBA players are, they'd combine (as in the entire league) to make only about $5 million more than Barnes made last year by himself.

The pay is isn't driven primarily by the skill or effort of the players. It's because of the demand. And, unfortunately for the WNBA players, the demand just isn't there. The WNBA just doesn't generate the revenue to support paying its players more than an average salary of about $150K. And the best players are probably "worth" no more than $1 million based on the league's revenue relative to the NBA's.

So, it's certainly fair to argue that the WNBA players are underpaid. But even if they were being paid appropriately relative to league revenue, they would make about a penny to every dollar that the NBA players make.


Does the NBA subsidize the WNBA?

The NBA certainly used to subsidize the WNBA. I don't know if that is currently still the case - at least not directly. There are certainly indirect subsidies happening. For example, the NBA got an extension of the WNBA TV contract with ESPN as part of their most recent NBA TV deal.

[53n206]

King Rice

Wow! What a memory. So inconsequential today, but he had his time.

[elvis14]

Populations:

England: 55,268,100 (2016)
France: 67,186,638 (2017)
Belgium: 11,150,516 (2014)
Croatia : 4,284,889 (2011)


US: 325,245,963 (2017)

Agree too that the flopping, while rampant with the men, does not seem nearly as bad in the women's game.


And, most importantly, the amount of Harrison Barnes' suckitude cannot be overstated. Just a whisker below King Rice.

Wow seeing those population numbers does add perspective. One note about the flopping in mens soccer. Does it bother me? Sure. But it bothers others much more to the point were it seems ever conversation with the casual fan comes down to them complaining about it. That's what really bothers me about the flopping is that I like soccer and it's growing in the US as far as I can tell...in terms of people, especially kids, playing it. So I'd like to see them clean up the flopping so that 1) I can stop hearing about it (yes, I get the irony since I brought it up here) and 2) the flopping would stop being an barrier to picking up new fans.

At the same time, I don't think we can overstate how much Harrison Barnes sucks.

[devildeac]

Wow seeing those population numbers does add perspective. One note about the flopping in mens soccer. Does it bother me? Sure. But it bothers others much more to the point were it seems ever conversation with the casual fan comes down to them complaining about it. That's what really bothers me about the flopping is that I like soccer and it's growing in the US as far as I can tell...in terms of people, especially kids, playing it. So I'd like to see them clean up the flopping so that 1) I can stop hearing about it (yes, I get the irony since I brought it up here) and 2) the flopping would stop being an barrier to picking up new fans.

At the same time, I don't think we can overstate how much Harrison Barnes sucks.

Sticky?

(kidding)

(sort of)

[Indoor66]

Sticky?

(kidding)

(sort of)

Maybe he can be designated as 9f(z)?

[BigWayne]

Her comparison to NBA players makes as much sense as comparing herself and her salary to that of Dak Prescott. The revenue and required capabilities to be a top player are so different between the WNBA and NBA that it might as well be an entirely different sport.

Simple solution to Skylar's problem. Go to the open tryouts for the Mavericks G-League team. (https://texas.gleague.nba.com/local-tryouts/) and work her way up to the main squad.

[Indoor66]

The last two posts are severely lacking for sufficient emphasis in their final point.

Barnes more than sux! 😈

[devildeac]

The last two posts are severely lacking for sufficient emphasis in their final point.

Barnes more than sux! 😈

However, even if we had a DBR poll of "What NBA player sucks most?" or a yes/no "Does Barnes suck?" poll, it still wouldn't be unanimous. :p

[DukieInBrasil]

However, even if we had a DBR poll of "What NBA player sucks most?" or a yes/no "Does Barnes suck?" poll, it still wouldn't be unanimous. :p

Barnes is vastly overpaid. is that the same as sucking?
Or perhaps a different perspective would be his $$$/suck ratio, which would certainly be one of the highest in the NBA.

[OldPhiKap]

However, even if we had a DBR poll of "What NBA player sucks most?" or a yes/no "Does Barnes suck?" poll, it still wouldn't be unanimous. :p


Barnes is vastly overpaid. is that the same as sucking?
Or perhaps a different perspective would be his $$$/suck ratio, which would certainly be one of the highest in the NBA.

Maybe we need a thread predicting the number of minutes this upcoming season that Barnes will suck per game on the floor, as opposed to how many minutes he will just suck on the bench. With puns.

[devildeac]

Barnes is vastly overpaid. is that the same as sucking?
Or perhaps a different perspective would be his $$$/suck ratio, which would certainly be one of the highest in the NBA.

Might need a poll to determine which definition/s or criteria we should use. Could be fun. ;)

[devildeac]

Maybe we need a thread predicting the number of minutes this upcoming season that will Barnes suck per game on the floor, as opposed to how many minutes he will just suck on the bench. With puns and beer.

Minor addition. ;)

[Indoor66]

Maybe we need a thread predicting the number of minutes this upcoming season that Barnes will suck per game on the floor, as opposed to how many minutes he will just suck on the bench. With puns.

That is easy: he will suck for ALL of them. No pun necessary. He is the joke.

[Reilly]

So, King Rice, Hanstravel, and the Black Pigeon walk into a bar. It sucked.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

So, King Rice, Hanstravel, and the Black Pigeon walk into a bar. It sucked.

...Hanstravel or Hansflopper?

[Indoor66]

...Hanstravel or Hansflopper?

Same guy unless he has been cloned.

[OldPhiKap]

Same guy unless he has been cloned.

“Attack of the Clods”

[JNort]

And herein lies the issue. The NBA makes WAY more money than the WNBA. Even if the WNBA players were paid the same proportion of revenue as the NBA players are, they'd combine (as in the entire league) to make only about $5 million more than Barnes made last year by himself.

The pay is isn't driven primarily by the skill or effort of the players. It's because of the demand. And, unfortunately for the WNBA players, the demand just isn't there. The WNBA just doesn't generate the revenue to support paying its players more than an average salary of about $150K. And the best players are probably "worth" no more than $1 million based on the league's revenue relative to the NBA's.

So, it's certainly fair to argue that the WNBA players are underpaid. But even if they were being paid appropriately relative to league revenue, they would make about a penny to every dollar that the NBA players make.



The NBA certainly used to subsidize the WNBA. I don't know if that is currently still the case - at least not directly. There are certainly indirect subsidies happening. For example, the NBA got an extension of the WNBA TV contract with ESPN as part of their most recent NBA TV deal.

Same goes for the womens soccer team. Yeah they finish better than the men despite the men being better but the problem is the world as a whole doesn't care about women's soccer so they therefore don't make nearly as much.

[left_hook_lacey]

Complaining that you're underpaid is one thing. Complaining that you're underpaid by comparing your stats as a WNBA player to the stats of an NBA player is something quite different and the argument doesn't hold water.

That's like a right fielder for the Kinston Wood Ducks comparing his stats to Dexter Fowler of the St. Louis Cardinals and saying, "Hey my stats are better than his, I'm being underpaid in the minors!!"

If she was good enough to be in the NBA, she would be. She's not, and is paid as such.

She's making six figures for playing a game very few people want to pay to see. It's as simple as that. If she wants more money, maybe the NBA should take the money it uses to keep the WNBA afloat, disperse that money to the players and say, "ok, you're making more money, but we're out. If the WNBA folds(and it will), that's the end of it. You can always come to workout for an NBA team and try to make the G-league.

[rsvman]

So, King Rice, Hanstravel, and the Black Pigeon walk into a bar. It sucked.

Hansblahblah walked into a bar. It didn't get called, though.

[devildeac]

Hansblahblah walked into a bar. It didn't get called, though.

But he still was awarded 2 FT. :mad:

[devil84]

A significant number of posts were deleted because a comment noting a racial shift in women's golf devolved quickly into racist comments and personal attacks.

Y'all know better than that.

Racism has absolutely no place on this board. And when attacking racist comments, attack the post, not the poster. These aren't new rules.