Bolden doesn't start in Montreal: banged-up or just in the dog house?

[scottdude8]

Obviously Marques was one of the few dim spots from the games in Canada leading up to today. Now, an exhibition against a smaller team is never the ideal situation for a pure center... but from my perspective from (almost) courtside in Mississauga, he seemed like one of the few players not giving max effort. It appeared as if not getting real post touches offensively was affecting his defense, especially compared to guys like Jack White and Vrank who were diving for loose balls, and Barrett and Williamson still giving max effort on D. The fact that he didn't play in the second half (I believe) on Friday, and now isn't starting today, makes me thing something is up. Has there been any news/discussion on this that might've gotten lost in the other threads regarding a potential injury that might explain this? Or is he just in the dog house from three sub-par halves of basketball? Has K said anything on Marques?

[scottdude8]

Well, looks like the answer might have just been "dog-house", because Bolden has entered with around 2 minutes left in the first quarter. Curious to see how he responds to what seems to be a message sent by K in having him not start today after starting the first two games.

[hallcity]

Well, looks like the answer might have just been "dog-house", because Bolden has entered with around 2 minutes left in the first quarter. Curious to see how he responds to what seems to be a message sent by K in having him not start today after starting the first two games.

He’s not been in long but he still seems nearly invisible.

[arnie]

He’s not been in long but he still seems nearly invisible.

But his +/- was great😀

[jimsumner]

For the record, K doesn't have a dog house.

Just ask him.

Or preferably, don't ask him.

The easiest way to get into K's doghouse is to ask him about his doghouse.

[budwom]

For the record, K doesn't have a dog house.

Just ask him.

Or preferably, don't ask him.

The easiest way to get into K's doghouse is to ask him about his doghouse.

the positions his teams don't have also include the doghouse which doesn't exist...

[1991 duke law]

I feel absolutely terrible about Marquis. Like everyone here, I so would like to see him succeed. And not for the benefit of the team, but for himself.

I did see him play last week and I have serious questions whether he will get meaningful minutes this year. And I have serious questions whether he can be a legitimate and successful post player. With no identifiable competition at the centre spot to begin this year, I had hoped that the door was wide open. But after two exhibition games, against very poor competition, the prospects for Marquis this year already look bleak. Maybe it is not fair to jump to this conclusion so early, but I am not getting a good feeling about where this is going for Marquis.

While I do not see a transfer at this stage as necessarily useful to him, I wonder if he’s thinking about stepping away and trying to transfer. I anticipate that he may burn this year with little success - although I have doubt that he will prove to be very successful elsewhere. He may simply be an example of a kid that was overrated coming out of high school.

But regardless, I really do feel bad as I hate to see any of these kids hang in there and not obtain the success that they desire.

[proelitedota]

It doesn't make sense for him to transfer. He can get his Duke degree and then graduate transfer without having to lose a year.

[OldPhiKap]

For the record, K doesn't have a dog house.

Just ask him.

Or preferably, don't ask him.

The easiest way to get into K's doghouse is to ask him about his doghouse.

Oh, and don’t grade his players.

[MartyClark]

I feel absolutely terrible about Marquis. Like everyone here, I so would like to see him succeed. And not for the benefit of the team, but for himself.

I did see him play last week and I have serious questions whether he will get meaningful minutes this year. And I have serious questions whether he can be a legitimate and successful post player. With no identifiable competition at the centre spot to begin this year, I had hoped that the door was wide open. But after two exhibition games, against very poor competition, the prospects for Marquis this year already look bleak. Maybe it is not fair to jump to this conclusion so early, but I am not getting a good feeling about where this is going for Marquis.

While I do not see a transfer at this stage as necessarily useful to him, I wonder if he’s thinking about stepping away and trying to transfer. I anticipate that he may burn this year with little success - although I have doubt that he will prove to be very successful elsewhere. He may simply be an example of a kid that was overrated coming out of high school.

But regardless, I really do feel bad as I hate to see any of these kids hang in there and not obtain the success that they desire.

Yeah, agree with everything you said.

One of our posters, a professor or perhaps librarian at Duke, previously posted that she knew Marquis and he was a good young man. I'm happy to hear that.

I wish the best for him. He just doesn't seem to have the skills or saavy to thrive in big time basketball. I will gladly be wrong on this and hope he comes on strong in the regular season.

[1991 duke law]

For whatever it is worth, my daughter and I ran into Marquis his freshman year. He was with Harry. Now Harry may be the nicest kid I have ever met. Such a polite young gentleman. But Marquis was also very nice. Much to my daughter’s chagrin – who is the same age as both of them but two feet shorter - I lectured both of them on persistence and overcoming obstacles. Notwithstanding my daughter telling me to stop, Harry admonished her that he was happy to listen and said thank you. And then they both graciously took a photo with my daughter.

I really hope that Marquis finds success. And I hope that Harry – the nicest kid in the NBA – grows and develops and crushes it.

[freshmanjs]

For whatever it is worth, my daughter and I ran into Marquis his freshman year. He was with Harry. Now Harry may be the nicest kid I have ever met. Such a polite young gentleman. But Marquis was also very nice. Much to my daughter’s chagrin – who is the same age as both of them but two feet shorter - I lectured both of them on persistence and overcoming obstacles. Notwithstanding my daughter telling me to stop, Harry admonished her that he was happy to listen and said thank you. And then they both graciously took a photo with my daughter.

I really hope that Marquis finds success. And I hope that Harry – the nicest kid in the NBA – grows and develops and crushes it.

Probably good to spell his name right if you’re going to take on the task of lecturing him.

[jimsumner]

There's no question in my mind that Bolden has the raw tools to be a top-level NCAA center.

But there's something that hasn't clicked yet. Something in the area of focus, drive, concentration, feel for the game.

It's certainly premature, IMO, to write him off, for the season or his Duke career. But I think it is fair to suggest that all parties are still trying to figure out how to best fit together the pieces of the puzzle.

As an aside, it's never once occurred to me to lecture any college athlete on any aspect of their development, athletic or otherwise.

[1991 duke law]

Probably good to spell his name right if you’re going to take on the task of lecturing him.

Oddly enough, when I spoke with him he did not ask how I spell his name. Perhaps when you speak with him next time, you can spell it out. I tend not to spell out the words I speak when chatting with someone.

[bluenorth]

Bolden, when the cameras showed close-up shots, just didn't look interested. His body language was not positive either. I think that everyone goes through ups and downs, so hopefully he's just working through something and will turn the corner during the season. But if something positive doesn't happen between now and November, I could see him deciding to sit out.

[Dukehky]

Oddly enough, when I spoke with him he did not ask how I spell his name. Perhaps when you speak with him next time, you can spell it out. I tend not to spell out the words I speak when chatting with someone.

Marques isn't in the Bluebook, so why bother learning how to spell it?

Not sure there's even much motivation to take from this week it was so bad, so hopefully he just moves on and starts preseason like this never happened.

[Dukehky]

Bolden, when the cameras showed close-up shots, just didn't look interested. His body language was not positive either. I think that everyone goes through ups and downs, so hopefully he's just working through something and will turn the corner during the season. But if something positive doesn't happen between now and November, I could see him deciding to sit out.

You could look at the bench during the Miami game from a couple years ago when he was an absolute monster, and you would have said the same thing. He's just not that type of dude to show tons of emotion, no matter what. Not a ton to be gleaned from it regarding his attitude/how he's feeling from how he acts on the bench, just gotta hope he plays better.

[MartyClark]

Bolden, when the cameras showed close-up shots, just didn't look interested. His body language was not positive either. I think that everyone goes through ups and downs, so hopefully he's just working through something and will turn the corner during the season. But if something positive doesn't happen between now and November, I could see him deciding to sit out.

Hard to know what a kid's body language and facial expressions mean. I don't disagree with you but this kid has always been a bit inscrutable. I don't know whether we are seeing frustration, disappointment, fear, failure, or anger in his demeanor. I wish him well. I think Duke needs him to succeed this year.

[1991 duke law]

I never played organized high school or college basketball. What does a coach do to motivate a young man in these circumstances? I am sure that he wants to succeed more than anything in the world – what does the coaching staff do to push his buttons to attempt to get movement in the right direction?

[Dukehky]

I never played organized high school or college basketball. What does a coach do to motivate a young man in these circumstances? I am sure that he wants to succeed more than anything in the world – what does the coaching staff do to push his buttons to attempt to get movement in the right direction?

Player by player stuff. Everyone is different—none of us know what Bolden needs, looks like K's not sure yet either.

[CajunDevil]

Marques can be a really good player for Duke... this year. He had a horrible week. Before the trip, K said he was playing really well, so I’m at a loss. But, I think he’ll bounce back when the year starts. He moves his feet well for a big and can be effective at both ends. I’m pulling for him.

[BlueDevilTommy]

Maybe Bolden will play better with the pure PG Tre in the lineup. Maybe Jahlil wouldn't have looked very good without Tyus.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Maybe Bolden will play better with the pure PG Tre in the lineup. Maybe Jahlil wouldn't have looked very good without Tyus.

Interesting concept. Might just be something to it. I hope so...I always pulled for him...

[WiJoe]

For whatever it is worth, my daughter and I ran into Marquis


M-a-r-q-u-e-s


http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=211021390&DB_OEM_ID=4200&Q_SEASON=2018

this isn't jai billasse in disguise, is it?

[OldPhiKap]

For whatever it is worth, my daughter and I ran into Marqu[e]s his freshman year. He was with Harry. Now Harry may be the nicest kid I have ever met. Such a polite young gentleman. But Marqu[e]s was also very nice. Much to my daughter’s chagrin – who is the same age as both of them but two feet shorter - I lectured both of them on persistence and overcoming obstacles. Notwithstanding my daughter telling me to stop, Harry admonished her that he was happy to listen and said thank you. And then they both graciously took a photo with my daughter.

I really hope that Marqu[e]s finds success. And I hope that Harry – the nicest kid in the NBA – grows and develops and crushes it.

I for one appreciate your story about two good kids. Thanks.

[jimsumner]

Maybe Bolden will play better with the pure PG Tre in the lineup. Maybe Jahlil wouldn't have looked very good without Tyus.

Perhaps. But neither DeLaurier nor Vrankovic had Jones and they seem to have found ways to contribute offensively.

Look, it's a small sample size, a snapshot of a week in August, for crying out loud. There's no question that Bolden can play better and I think it's reasonable to think he will.

But he did not have a good week in Canada. No way to sugarcoat it.

[bluenorth]

I never played organized high school or college basketball. What does a coach do to motivate a young man in these circumstances? I am sure that he wants to succeed more than anything in the world – what does the coaching staff do to push his buttons to attempt to get movement in the right direction?

There's no set procedure for this. Player A may need to be yelled at to get him going. Try the same thing with Player B and he may disappear. And if you don't change everything up now and then the players will eventually tune the coach out. A coach I knew felt that it was his role to keep his players on edge, to the point that he would bench every one of them at some point during the season. This worked in the short term, but after a few years the act would wear thin and he would move on to another team. Coach K doesn't need to resort to those tactics, but if he doesn't have the answer for Bolden I doubt that anyone else will either.

[Furniture]

Oddly enough, when I spoke with him he did not ask how I spell his name. Perhaps when you speak with him next time, you can spell it out. I tend not to spell out the words I speak when chatting with someone.

Nice rebound. Well done.

[Ian]

The thing is he doesn't need to score to be a huge factor on this team, just play good position defense, challenge shots at the rim, and go all out for every rebound, that's all he needs to do. It's not as if he can't do this, because we've seen him do it in spurts last year. Very frustrating that he can't put this together. I'm actually more disappointed for him than in him. He's looking at a potential $50-100 million lifetime NBA earning career slipping through his fingers without a fight.

[superdave]

There's no question in my mind that Bolden has the raw tools to be a top-level NCAA center.

But there's something that hasn't clicked yet. Something in the area of focus, drive, concentration, feel for the game.

It's certainly premature, IMO, to write him off, for the season or his Duke career. But I think it is fair to suggest that all parties are still trying to figure out how to best fit together the pieces of the puzzle.

As an aside, it's never once occurred to me to lecture any college athlete on any aspect of their development, athletic or otherwise.

I remember telling someone way back when that Brendan Haywood would benefit from having his grandmother as an assistant coach. All the tools were there, ACC DPOY along with Battier (!!!!? waaaaaa) but he just kept under-achieving. I threw out the idea that he was a grandma's boy and that was the way to get him to move. I was probably wrong, as in he had a long NBA career, but I wasnt totally wrong.

Bolden has had fewer opportunities at this point than Haywood, but the point remains the same.

What motivates him? How does he seize the opportunity?

I dont know, but his shot is now.

[DukeDevilDeb]

I am the person who wrote about Marques and still contend that he is a wonderful human being. I had to miss several classes last year because of an off-the-court injury ;), and he was the only student who actually sent an e-mail and said he hoped I'd be feeling better. I know after having had him in several classes that he does not respond well to yelling or belittling. That makes him hide behind his eyes... although i don't know why as basketball coaching seems to be full of those. I agree with whoever said that we shouldn't write off his entire seasons because of these three games.

I wonder, myself, whether Coach K's comments in June or July (see Marques will be one of the best big men in the country:http://www.sportingnews.com/us/other-sports/news/duke-blue-devils-coach-mike-krzyzewski-marques-bolden-best-big-men-in-college-basketball/z45u2ukj0tck1pc819sqhjsvz ) set expectations that were not good. Some people would respond positively and say "Yes, I am the best big man in college basketball," and others would say "I can't do that." Seemed out of character when K made those comments.

As usual, we will just have to wait and see. These three games and showed off our talent levels, and getting the point guard back may be important. Given Jahlil's problems in the NBA, I think there may be some truth in the idea that, without Jones, he wouldn't have succeeded as he did.

Fun to have b-ball back, even if only for 3 quick games. Now to go dormant again until we start the season with Kentucky. I STILL love Christian Laettner!

[CarmenWallaceWade]

Look, it's a small sample size, a snapshot of a week in August, for crying out loud. There's no question that Bolden can play better and I think it's reasonable to think he will.

But he did not have a good week in Canada. No way to sugarcoat it.

Spot on. I’m sure we all wanted to see a shade of dominance from MB during this sprint given the opportunity at center. Maybe it’s pressure. Maybe it’s confidence. Or maybe he just had a bad few games. But we’ve seen the potential and I believe chances are good it will develop (through coaching) into consistent production. A disappointing stretch? Yes. Let’s hope it’s fuel to continue prep for the more important regular season.

[rhynelander]

Wow, I'm kinda shocked by people writing off Bolden after a few warm up games, against lower level competition. Remember when Alex Murphy was gonna start and be the next Singler after an exhibition game? Please don't put too much stock into these games, especially when the lineups don't favor a true center, and we don't have a PG out there to distribute and set an intentional pace. First off, I've thoroughly enjoyed watching Duke play in August, our athleticism and effort (outside or Bolden) has been great for the most part. However, the rhythm and ball movement, just like Bolden's play leave a lot to be desired. But please withhold judgement on a player who is finally healthy, and has shown flashes in the past against ACC talent. Does Bolden need to up his focus and effort? Absolutely, but he also has two ball dominant wings who are nonstop driving, usually putting up contested short range shots (with some amazing finishes!!) or dishing out for a 3. How many plays has had Bolden had ran for him, how many solid passes has he even got? In that way, Bolden reminds me of a star WR who doesn't block or sell his routes on plays that aren't going his way, which is definitely a negative trait, that I'm sure the coaches are already talking to him about. I think it would be wise to at least wait until Thanksgiving before deciding that Bolden will be a benchwarmer this year, or transfer. Maybe somebody wants to make a pie bet on that:p

[Scorp4me]

Marques can be a really good player for Duke... this year. He had a horrible week. Before the trip, K said he was playing really well, so I’m at a loss. But, I think he’ll bounce back when the year starts. He moves his feet well for a big and can be effective at both ends. I’m pulling for him.

I was thinking the same thing. If Marques can't contribute this year then it speaks poorly of K's ability to evaluate and recruit future players, develop and motivate players, then look at current players and set realistic expectations for them. Would be quite a stretch if he failed on all accounts. We've had recruits that didn't pan out, some that didn't improve, and some that simply were practice players. But here's a kid that was highly recruited, is in his 3rd year in the system, AND K was raving about before the trip. That's quite a few mistakes if so...the last one being the biggest after seeing him so much.

[SlapTheFloor]

I wonder about his off season conditioning. Looked like he had his hands on his hips after only a few minutes of play. Might have been the same reason he got cut from the under 19 team last summer.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Bolden, when the cameras showed close-up shots, just didn't look interested. His body language was not positive either. I think that everyone goes through ups and downs, so hopefully he's just working through something and will turn the corner during the season. But if something positive doesn't happen between now and November, I could see him deciding to sit out.

I think that's just his natural expression. The last game he was still getting off the bench and jumping up and down celebrating his teammates when he got benched in the second half.

[kAzE]

It's definitely premature to write Marques off right now.

Marques was the starter for the first two games for a reason. He had to have shown himself capable of being a major contributor in the 10 practices leading up to this trip, and he played well in limited minutes last season. For whatever reason, that Marques did not show up in these 3 games. He just didn't look like he had any energy out there.

However, the guy who we saw last year is in there somewhere. There's still 2 months to go before the regular season begins. We'll see the good Marques again.

[dukelifer]

I was thinking the same thing. If Marques can't contribute this year then it speaks poorly of K's ability to evaluate and recruit future players, develop and motivate players, then look at current players and set realistic expectations for them. Would be quite a stretch if he failed on all accounts. We've had recruits that didn't pan out, some that didn't improve, and some that simply were practice players. But here's a kid that was highly recruited, is in his 3rd year in the system, AND K was raving about before the trip. That's quite a few mistakes if so...the last one being the biggest after seeing him so much.

Why can’t this be Marques’ issue? Lots of players have developed under K. Marques has to motivate himself to get better. As you say- Marques is a 3rd year player. He has seen what it takes to be great. He needs to improve his effort.

[gep]

I feel absolutely terrible about Marquis. Like everyone here, I so would like to see him succeed. And not for the benefit of the team, but for himself.
...


My sentiments exactly...



Player by player stuff. Everyone is different—none of us know what Bolden needs, looks like K's not sure yet either.

I hope they both figure it out. Maybe one of the assistants will be the one to get this going.:cool:


There's no set procedure for this. Player A may need to be yelled at to get him going. Try the same thing with Player B and he may disappear. And if you don't change everything up now and then the players will eventually tune the coach out. A coach I knew felt that it was his role to keep his players on edge, to the point that he would bench every one of them at some point during the season. This worked in the short term, but after a few years the act would wear thin and he would move on to another team. Coach K doesn't need to resort to those tactics, but if he doesn't have the answer for Bolden I doubt that anyone else will either.

I remember when Larry Bird accepted to be the head coach of the Indiana Pacers. He said he would only coach for 3 years. So he did. His third year... they went to the finals, only to lose to the Lakers (I hope my memory is OK...). Why 3 years? He said that after 3 years, players, in general, start to "tune you out". Fortunately, Coach K only sees players for 4 years max... generally... and the goods ones, much less.

[arnie]

Why can’t this be Marques’ issue? Lots of players have developed under K. Marques has to motivate himself to get better. As you say- Marques is a 3rd year player. He has seen what it takes to be great. He needs to improve his effort.

Maybe Marques should read DBR thread “Duke Football Notes”.

http://robdrum.us/10-things-i-learned-from-playing-for-coach-david-cutcliffe/

[Indoor66]

Why can’t this be Marques’ issue? Lots of players have developed under K. Marques has to motivate himself to get better. As you say- Marques is a 3rd year player. He has seen what it takes to be great. He needs to improve his effort.

Bingo. How about some personal responsibility. HE has to get better. Coaches can only teach and guide. HE has to get better.

[TKG]

For the record, K doesn't have a dog house.

Just ask him.

Or preferably, don't ask him.

The easiest way to get into K's doghouse is to ask him about his doghouse.

Chip Engelland and Tommy Emma might hold a different opinion. At one point in his career, Engelland would walk around the locker room barking.

[UrinalCake]

I think what bugs people is not his lack of scoring or rebounding but the lack of effort that he seems to be displaying. That’s something that is entirely controllable and can’t be written off to just having a bad couple of games. This has been an issue for him since stepping foot on campus and we all keep waiting/hoping for him to flip a switch.

I get that he’s a quiet and introverted kid and that carries over to the perception he gives off on the court. People used to say Tim Duncan was quiet and aloof too, and questioned his effort. I haven’t given up on Bolden, but was disappointed to not see more from a guy projected to be one of our upperclassmen leaders.

[TKG]

I think what bugs people is not his lack of scoring or rebounding but the lack of effort that he seems to be displaying. That’s something that is entirely controllable and can’t be written off to just having a bad couple of games. This has been an issue for him since stepping foot on campus and we all keep waiting/hoping for him to flip a switch.

I get that he’s a quiet and introverted kid and that carries over to the perception he gives off on the court. People used to say Tim Duncan was quiet and aloof too, and questioned his effort. I haven’t given up on Bolden, but was disappointed to not see more from a guy projected to be one of our upperclassmen leaders.


Is it his demeanor or just lack of production? I am pulling for Marques and he doesn't have to be a fire breather. What concerns me is his lack production. As a third year player in the program he knows (or should) what is expected. Perhaps he is trying to find a role with this group?

[whereinthehellami]

What are Bolden's strengths and weaknesses? His height/length, a couple go-to inside post moves, and rim protection are some of his strengths. For his weaknesses, I would say in general terms, his motor and basketball IQ. Bolden just doesn't seem to make many basketball pays and seems to be a play behind the action.

It is early but where does Bolden fit in with this group? I think the early returns are that this group excels playing a perimeter oriented, driving, high-IQ brand of ball. It seems like a tough fit getting Bolden into that basketball framework. On offense he take up space near the hoop, clogging up driving lanes and on defense he is a liability away from the hoop on a defense that can switch on most screens.

I think Bolden is a good kid but just doesn't have enough of whatever personality trait is needed to make things happen at the Duke level. Hope he finds a situation, wherever it is, that works for him. And if that is Duke, than great!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Why can’t this be Marques’ issue? Lots of players have developed under K. Marques has to motivate himself to get better. As you say- Marques is a 3rd year player. He has seen what it takes to be great. He needs to improve his effort.

I think a lot of this is on Marques. He has shown flashes, but he's very inconsistent. I hate to say it, but the Canada trip didn't surprise me at all. The motivational side of it is on Marques. From my perspective, Coach K is the best motivator in the business. If he can't get to Marques, I'm not sure who can.

That said, I'm also one of the folks here that has no problem providing "constructive criticism" towards Coach K. From the lack of a bench to an over-reliance on young players to little recent success in the transfer market, there are certainly things you have criticism the coaching staff for. IMO, Marques isn't one of them.

[flyingdutchdevil]

What are Bolden's strengths and weaknesses? His height/length, a couple go-to inside post moves, and rim protection are some of his strengths. For his weaknesses, I would say in general terms, his motor and basketball IQ. Bolden just doesn't seem to make many basketball pays and seems to be a play behind the action.

It is early but where does Bolden fit in with this group? I think the early returns are that this group excels playing a perimeter oriented, driving, high-IQ brand of ball. It seems like a tough fit getting Bolden into that basketball framework. On offense he take up space near the hoop, clogging up driving lanes and on defense he is a liability away from the hoop on a defense that can switch on most screens.

I think Bolden is a good kid but just doesn't have enough of whatever personality trait is needed to make things happen at the Duke level. Hope he finds a situation, wherever it is, that works for him. And if that is Duke, than great!

Strengths:
-Length (he's the longest player in Duke history)
-Team defense (he's really good at managing screens)
-Setting screens

Weaknesses
-Strength
-Rebounding
-1-on-1 scoring
-Attitude

[rsvman]

I think this thread is a bit over the top, to be honest. For all we know, Marques was fighting a virus of some kind that sucked the energy out of him. We've certainly seen good play (and good hustle, I might add) out of Marques in the past, against better competition.

His attitude seems really good in the training videos released earlier, too.


This entire trip was just less than a week long. I'm absolutely not willing to say that he's not going to be a contributor this season, or that he lacks the motivation to contribute, or whatever. I think we need to calm down and allow the young man a chance to prove himself once the real games begin. I suspect many in this thread will be pleasantly surprised.

[kAzE]

Strengths:
-Length (he's the longest player in Duke history)
-Team defense (he's really good at managing screens)
-Setting screens

Weaknesses
-Strength
-Rebounding
-1-on-1 scoring
-Attitude

Is his attitude a problem? He seems like a good teammate, and always appears genuinely happy for his teammates success, even while sitting on the bench.

I agree with whereinthehellami. Bolden seems to have no motor. If he had 10% of Marvin Bagley or Zion's motor, he would be a dominant big man, because his frame and athletic ability are awesome. He also seems to completely lose focus at times. It's difficult to watch, because you'll see him make a good effort, but then just stop trying.

I saw one play in the 2nd half yesterday that is basically a microcosm of all his issues: Bolden's man gets the ball at the top of the key and shoots a three. Bolden gets out on him and contests the shot well, without fouling. The ball clangs off the front rim and hits the floor around the free throw line. Marques sort of starts drifting towards the offensive end of the floor, as if he expects someone else to grab the ball and throw it to him in transition, but his man goes right past him to the ball and gets the long offensive rebound, when Marques easily could have scooped it up, had he just come back for it after the shot contest.

Next dead ball: Vrankovic in, Bolden out.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think this thread is a bit over the top, to be honest. For all we know, Marques was fighting a virus of some kind that sucked the energy out of him. We've certainly seen good play (and good hustle, I might add) out of Marques in the past, against better competition.

His attitude seems really good in the training videos released earlier, too.


This entire trip was just less than a week long. I'm absolutely not willing to say that he's not going to be a contributor this season, or that he lacks the motivation to contribute, or whatever. I think we need to calm down and allow the young man a chance to prove himself once the real games begin. I suspect many in this thread will be pleasantly surprised.

Why is it over the top? We're talking about one of our only upperclassmen who played about inferior competition and looked terrible. If he was sick, Coach K would have said something along the lines of, "there is a bug going around the team" and wouldn't have used any of the language about about Marques post-Toronto game.

It's only the pre-season, yes. But during the pre-season, we generally put players on pedestals. This is a very rare case where a player has looked terrible against terrible competition.

[OldPhiKap]

I have neither heard nor seen anything to suggest that Bolden's attitude is a problem. If it was, I imagine a transfer would have already happened or been encouraged.

The kid is struggling, everyone has their own race to run. This trip will give him and the coaches things to address and improve upon. He obviously was practicing well enough to earn two starts, so it's not as if the coaches do not believe in him or see the potential he has.

Glad I didn't grow up under a microscope like these kids have to today. Yikes.

[sagegrouse]

Strengths:
-Length (he's the longest player in Duke history)
-Team defense (he's really good at managing screens)
-Setting screens

Weaknesses
-Strength
-Rebounding
-1-on-1 scoring
-Attitude

He also runs well. Just a little slow on getting in synch with the college game. Maybe this season, maybe next?

Attitude? These guys all work their butts off, on and off the court. I'd say, "confidence."

[NYBri]

My take is that we should wait a bit on MB...and the rest of the team, for that matter.

What we have just watched are three little-more-than-pick-up games from the Devils. In those kinds of games, you are going to see the best 1 on 1 players take over...and that is what we just saw. Meaning, I really didn't see many sets or plays. They had limited practice time for the trip.

When next we see this group, I bet we'll see a different "team" and hopefully MB will fit into that better than he does in an up and down skins and shirts kind of game.

It's hard to shine in the middle when #1 and #5 need space in there to operate. I know Vrank and Javin did okay, but they are better suited to play a bit more on the wing. That's just not MB's game. :cool:

[flyingdutchdevil]

My take is that we should wait a bit on MB...and the rest of the team, for that matter.

What we have just watched are three little-more-than-pick-up games from the Devils. In those kinds of games, you are going to see the best 1 on 1 players take over...and that is what we just saw. Meaning, I really didn't see many sets or plays. They had limited practice time for the trip.

When next we see this group, I bet we'll see a different "team" and hopefully MB will fit into that better than he does in an up and down skins and shirts kind of game.

It's hard to shine in the middle when #1 and #5 need space in there to operate. I know Vrank and Javin did okay, but they are better suited to play a bit more on the wing. That's just not MB's game. :cool:

This is just not true. During the Blue-White game and pre-season games, most players look really good. Folks are talking about Baker and White as if they are going to be amazing role players. Maybe they will be, but this is the pre-season. 4- and 5-star recruits playing against 1-2 star recruits makes those 4- and 5- recruits look like All-Stars. I played pick up yesterday and my game is around defense and playmaking. But I was guarded by a 5'7" dude and I scored half of our team's points.

No one - I mean NO ONE - has given up on MB. And we're not suggesting anyone do so. However, we should be watching this closely. It's a very interesting story line for a young team that needs upperclassmen guidance.

[Acymetric]

I think this thread is a bit over the top, to be honest. For all we know, Marques was fighting a virus of some kind that sucked the energy out of him. We've certainly seen good play (and good hustle, I might add) out of Marques in the past, against better competition.

His attitude seems really good in the training videos released earlier, too.


This entire trip was just less than a week long. I'm absolutely not willing to say that he's not going to be a contributor this season, or that he lacks the motivation to contribute, or whatever. I think we need to calm down and allow the young man a chance to prove himself once the real games begin. I suspect many in this thread will be pleasantly surprised.

I would suspect that if illness were involved, K would have said that instead of what he did say in the postgame press conference (which was pretty vague, almost a non-answer, but certainly not an answer that could be construed as remotely positive). On the other hand, I do agree that it is too soon to write him off as a contributor this season, but most people in the thread aren't actually doing that.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I would suspect that if illness were involved, K would have said that instead of what he did say in the postgame press conference (which was pretty vague, almost a non-answer, but certainly not an answer that could be construed as remotely positive). On the other hand, I do agree that it is too soon to write him off as a contributor this season, but most people in the thread aren't actually doing that.

Is anyone?

One thing that makes no sense to me on DBR is it's okay to criticize each other but never a player/coach.

[kAzE]

Is anyone?

One thing that makes no sense to me on DBR is it's okay to criticize each other but never a player/coach.

I think it's fine to criticize player and/or coaches, once we have complete information. But right now, it's too early and too small a sample size to draw any major conclusions. Bolden will resurface at some point, and it would not surprise anyone if he regained his starting spot. However, after this trip, it also would not surprise me to see him fall completely out the rotation . . .

Wide of range of outcomes for MB. Let's see how he responds.

[SlapTheFloor]

Bolden's performance in the Canada trip really surprised me. Going into this season, it seems he has a golden opportunity to break the starting lineup and maybe play himself into a first round pick. Carter and Bagley are gone. There's no incoming freshman stud at center to contend with. I expected that he would have been in the gym every day during summer preparing for that. Instead, it looked like he just got off the couch. I hope he can turn it around. If he squanders these next two seasons and never makes an NBA roster, with all the talent and size he has, I think that would have to be something that would haunt him.

[Troublemaker]

I haven't watched the games yet, but I have a helicopter view/opinion: Marques' struggles counterbalanced by Jack's good play isn't a bad tradeoff for Duke. In fact, it's actually a pretty darn good trade if, like me, you want to see Zion play some at the 5 this season. To see Zion at the 5, we would need Alex and Jack to be reliable guys off the bench to provide enough wing depth for Coach to use a Death Lineup. When everyone is healthy (knock on wood), I'm very excited to see for example the possibilities of a Tre-RJ-Cam-Jack-Zion lineup, both offensively and defensively.

And, if it comes to it, I'm perfectly fine rolling with a 3-man rotation at center of Javin / Zion / Vrank.

[sagegrouse]

Is anyone?

One thing that makes no sense to me on DBR is it's okay to criticize each other but never a player/coach.

That's because DBR is a Duke Fans' Site, not a Duke Fans' Fans' Site.

[johnb]

On the court, everything Marques does is carefully critiqued by many adults.

He's a likely starter on the 3rd best college team in the country.

If I were as good at my job as he is at his, I probably wouldn't be reading DBR in my office on Monday morning.


Off the court, he's a 7-foot-tall, African-American small-town Texan. He is unlikely to blend into the background, ever.

Yesterday, I was grumpy at Bed, Bath, & Beyond.

If I'd been Marques, someone would have recorded me as I quietly/cleanly/politely explained my shopping dissatisfactions to the cashier who'd asked whether I'd found what I'd been looking for. For me, it's forgotten (aside from some humbling chagrin that I thought it wise to trouble the cashier who doesn't make BB&B policy). For him? That youtube would now have 100,000 hits.

I'm sorry, but I don't expect the longest player in Duke history to launch himself into the stands for a loose ball in Canada in August, nor do I expect him to have a certain facial expression or posture. I don't expect him to outshine college's best dunker, or outplay college's best overall player. He seems like a good guy who's trying hard. A tough week for him, and I'll never know why.

I realize that fan is short for fanatic, and fanatics are--by definition--unreasonable, but it does strike me as interesting that we feel free to opine on a message board (and even in person) about college kids who are functioning at the very apex of their sport.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

My take is that we should wait a bit on MB...and the rest of the team, for that matter.

What we have just watched are three little-more-than-pick-up games from the Devils. In those kinds of games, you are going to see the best 1 on 1 players take over...and that is what we just saw. Meaning, I really didn't see many sets or plays. They had limited practice time for the trip.

When next we see this group, I bet we'll see a different "team" and hopefully MB will fit into that better than he does in an up and down skins and shirts kind of game.

It's hard to shine in the middle when #1 and #5 need space in there to operate. I know Vrank and Javin did okay, but they are better suited to play a bit more on the wing. That's just not MB's game. :cool:

MB?

Marvin Bagley is not walking through that door, ladies and gentlemen.

Just kidding.

I have neither seen nor heard anything to suggest his attitude is an issue,other than the grumblings about a possible transfer last year. His body language isn't effusive and demonstrative, but you could say that about lots of players.

I am rooting for him. He is by all accounts a stand up guy, and while we are all frustrated by his slow development, imagine hpw much more so he must be?

Let's go Duke! Let's go Bolden!

[Troublemaker]

On the court, everything Marques does is carefully critiqued by many adults.

He's a likely starter on the 3rd best college team in the country.

If I were as good at my job as he is at his, I probably wouldn't be reading DBR in my office on Monday morning.

While I think the comparison is probably absurd, I do highly suspect many posters on DBR are as accomplished or more accomplished in their respective fields as Marques is in his. Especially insofar as he's a baby (only 20 years old) and has accomplished essentially nothing.

I also doubt that he's going to be the starter (or that Duke will be the 3rd best team :-). Now, if Marques outplays Javin in fall practice, then yes, he will be the starter. But this Canada trip was not meaningless. There are consequences to the trip, and those consequences are that it's now Javin's job to lose heading into the fall.



Off the court, he's a 7-foot-tall, African-American small-town Texan. He is unlikely to blend into the background, ever.

Yesterday, I was grumpy at Bed, Bath, & Beyond.

If I'd been Marques, someone would have recorded me as I quietly/cleanly/politely explained my shopping dissatisfactions to the cashier who'd asked whether I'd found what I'd been looking for. For me, it's forgotten (aside from some humbling chagrin that I thought it wise to trouble the cashier who doesn't make BB&B policy). For him? That youtube would now have 100,000 hits.

While life as a Duke basketball player isn't perfect (as no person on Earth has a perfect life), I'd imagine 99% of 20-yr-old men would trade places with Marques in an instant if they could.



I realize that fan is short for fanatic, and fanatics are--by definition--unreasonable, but it does strike me as interesting that we feel free to opine on a message board (and even in person) about college kids who are functioning at the very apex of their sport.

Why are you even on a sports message board if you don't believe in them?

[HereBeforeCoachK]

On the court, everything Marques does is carefully critiqued by many adults.

He's a likely starter on the 3rd best college team in the country......

I realize that fan is short for fanatic, and fanatics are--by definition--unreasonable, but it does strike me as interesting that we feel free to opine on a message board (and even in person) about college kids who are functioning at the very apex of their sport.

Well I think that insinuating that we are fanatics simply because the word fan evolved from that...is a bit much. I also think you're missing the point. Marques was supposed to be one and done material...so likely starter as a junior in college is quite a come down...even if "likely" is accurate, and I think that's an open question. And no, he isn't responsible for naming himself as one of the top frosh recruits 3 years ago, but he was on those lists...it is what it is.

And we feel free to talk about this on a message board BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT MESSAGE BOARDS ARE FOR. And frankly, most folks have made it clear they are rooting for him...and I see most of the comments as not critical so much as wondering what is wrong and hoping for the best.

[jimsumner]

Chip Engelland and Tommy Emma might hold a different opinion. At one point in his career, Engelland would walk around the locker room barking.

I thought that was Mike Tissaw.

My probably over-nuanced point was that whenever Mike Krzyzewski is asked if someone is in his doghouse, he denies that he has a doghouse, has ever had a doghouse or ever will have a doghouse. Sometimes it's with humor-frequently referencing his real canines--sometimes, there's an edge.

For the record, I've never been on the receiving end of that particular hammer but I've been in the room when others have.

No fun.

But an inside joke to be sure.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Well I think that insinuating that we are fanatics simply because the word fan evolved from that...is a bit much. I also think you're missing the point. Marques was supposed to be one and done material...so likely starter as a junior in college is quite a come down...even if "likely" is accurate, and I think that's an open question. And no, he isn't responsible for naming himself as one of the top frosh recruits 3 years ago, but he was on those lists...it is what it is.

And we feel free to talk about this on a message board BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT MESSAGE BOARDS ARE FOR. And frankly, most folks have made it clear they are rooting for him...and I see most of the comments as not critical so much as wondering what is wrong and hoping for the best.

All caps and shouting are clearly the best method of communication here and elsewhere online.

I agree that we are a self-selecting group of "fanatics," pedantic syntax notwithstanding. We are all Duke fans who are "fanatic" enough to be dissecting the pre-season body language of a third year player in mid-August. That might not be "rabid," but it is certainly fanatical.

[jimsumner]

All caps and shouting are clearly the best method of communication here and elsewhere online.


Nah. Sarcasm works better. :)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Nah. Sarcasm works better. :)

Guilty as charged.

We all have our weaknesses I suppose.

[DukieInBrasil]

When next we see this group, I bet we'll see a different "team" and hopefully MB will fit into that better than he does in an up and down skins and shirts kind of game.

It's hard to shine in the middle when #1 and #5 need space in there to operate. I know Vrank and Javin did okay, but they are better suited to play a bit more on the wing. That's just not MB's game. :cool:

Vrank is not better suited to play on the wing than Marques; Javin yes, Vrank no. Vrank's game is quite similar to Bolden's, but even slower, less suited to playing anywhere away from the basket. Marques does a good job of moving his feet and screening and hedging, and Vrank is average at best at that. Vrank seems to have gotten a bit stronger, which he'll need to be able to rebound better than he has so far in his career. I can't say if Marques has gotten any stronger, but that was certainly something that would have benefited him, since he's so tall and long.
Marques has a pretty good touch with a left or right hand baby hook, but hasn't shown evidence of range. Vrank is strictly dunking/layups on offense.
Your observation about a shirt-skins game type atmosphere might have some validity to it, but there's nothing about that type of game that would prevent Marques from busting his butt regardless. He's not a gazelle like Bagley, but he's not a lead foot either.

I just hope Marques finds in himself whatever he needs to find to be a strong contributor to a National Championship team!!!

[jimsumner]

Guilty as charged.

We all have our weaknesses I suppose.

As an aside, if one finishes with a smiley face, then it's not being sarcastic, it's being facetious.

Which is much nicer.

:)

[proelitedota]

Strengths:
-Length (he's the longest player in Duke history)
-Team defense (he's really good at managing screens)
-Setting screens

Weaknesses
-Strength
-Rebounding
-1-on-1 scoring
-Attitude

https://youtu.be/THYRX9tXBWs

[subzero02]

What's Zoubek doing these days? Given the trajectory of his college career, it seems like he could make some contributions as a big man coach.

I do feel badly for Bolden. Hopefully this undeniably poor performance north of the border helps to fuel his development and effort level in practice.

[WVDUKEFAN]

I’m not sure what the issue is. Is he intimidated by the talent around him? He’s not going to be the No. 1 or even the No. 2 option for this team. If that’s the issue, he needs to get over it. If he wants to contribute and possibly leave Duke with a championship, he needs to get the chip off his shoulder and start hustling and contributing.

[NSDukeFan]

As an aside, if one finishes with a smiley face, then it's not being sarcastic, it's being facetious.

Which is much nicer.

:)

I thought I was just being Canadian. 😀

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I’m not sure what the issue is. Is he intimidated by the talent around him? He’s not going to be the No. 1 or even the No. 2 option for this team. If that’s the issue, he needs to get over it. If he wants to contribute and possibly leave Duke with a championship, he needs to get the chip off his shoulder and start hustling and contributing.

I didn’t see the Canada games. Is there some evidence for the "chip on the shoulder?" or is this conjecture?

[fraggler]

I didn’t see the Canada games. Is there some evidence for the "chip on the shoulder?" or is this conjecture?

A whole lot of conjecture. Bolden was ineffective and seemed to lack energy on the court, but he was his usual,low key self on the bench. Listened when people were talking and got up and cheered his teammates on when they did something good.

[jipops]

It is still way too early for me to over-react to Bolden’s O-for-Canada effort. He has shown skill in the past as well as the ability to defend and rebound which we’ll need the most.

If we still see Bolden in a funk in December then I’ll really be perplexed.

[22JumpShots]

I didn’t see the Canada games. Is there some evidence for the "chip on the shoulder?" or is this conjecture?

No reason not to see these over the next couple of months awaiting the season. Too much goodness not to enjoy.

Game 1 - Ryerson - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu0dVzGD3pg

Game 2 - Toronto - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWwzQEqeJHU

Game 3 - McGill - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmf8wJgzZFE

[kAzE]

No reason not to see these over the next couple of months awaiting the season. Too much goodness not to enjoy.

Game 1 - Ryerson - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu0dVzGD3pg

Game 2 - Toronto - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWwzQEqeJHU

Game 3 - McGill - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmf8wJgzZFE

Nice . . . although I would not count on these videos to stay up for long. Watch 'em while you can!

[Scorp4me]

Why can’t this be Marques’ issue? Lots of players have developed under K. Marques has to motivate himself to get better. As you say- Marques is a 3rd year player. He has seen what it takes to be great. He needs to improve his effort.

Well it certainly can be, but as I pointed out Coach K was raving about him before the trip. As I also pointed out, the fact that after three years of working with a kid Coach K can be so completely wrong would be surprising to me. So I'm still hopeful this is all just a bunch of hand wringing for nothing.

[brlftz]

Well it certainly can be, but as I pointed out Coach K was raving about him before the trip. As I also pointed out, the fact that after three years of working with a kid Coach K can be so completely wrong would be surprising to me. So I'm still hopeful this is all just a bunch of hand wringing for nothing.

You'd be surprised that there'd be anyone who played at Duke and didn't live up to physical potential or hype? Listing players that did that could be a thread unto itself, and I don't know why anyone would think that Coach K can prevent that.

[WVDUKEFAN]

Bolden was ineffective and seemed to lack energy on the court.

Maybe I was too harsh regarding the "chip on the shoulder comment", but the lack of energy observation is spot on. I really like this kid, and like everyone else on this forum, can't wait for the time to come when he erupts. The potential is there.

[OldPhiKap]

Release your inner chi, young man! Talk to Shane.

[Troublemaker]

You'd be surprised that there'd be anyone who played at Duke and didn't live up to physical potential or hype? Listing players that did that could be a thread unto itself, and I don't know why anyone would think that Coach K can prevent that.

Scorp4Me's point was subtly different, though. Scorp4Me was saying that if the hype came from Coach K himself, it would be surprising if it didn't pan out.

But I would just tell Scorp4Me that coaches can be wildly wrong with their preseason thoughts. Even they have to see it play out on the court. Remember last preseason when playing Javin at the 3 was a good idea? Ha! Now this year, Javin's the likely starting center.

[Saratoga2]

It is still way too early for me to over-react to Bolden’s O-for-Canada effort. He has shown skill in the past as well as the ability to defend and rebound which we’ll need the most.

If we still see Bolden in a funk in December then I’ll really be perplexed.


Maybe he has mono.

[jimsumner]

Maybe he has mono.

Or maybe he doesn't.

[brlftz]

Scorp4Me's point was subtly different, though. Scorp4Me was saying that if the hype came from Coach K himself, it would be surprising if it didn't pan out.

But I would just tell Scorp4Me that coaches can be wildly wrong with their preseason thoughts. Even they have to see it play out on the court. Remember last preseason when playing Javin at the 3 was a good idea? Ha! Now this year, Javin's the likely starting center.

I didn't really take that as a serious prediction, but more as Coach K providing encouragement and trying to get Bolden to raise the bar for himself. So, not really hype, just strategic use of media.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Or maybe he doesn't.

Schroedinger's Bolden?

[Scorp4me]

Scorp4Me's point was subtly different, though. Scorp4Me was saying that if the hype came from Coach K himself, it would be surprising if it didn't pan out.

But I would just tell Scorp4Me that coaches can be wildly wrong with their preseason thoughts. Even they have to see it play out on the court. Remember last preseason when playing Javin at the 3 was a good idea? Ha! Now this year, Javin's the likely starting center.

Troublemaker, you're right on both accounts. I coach and usually try to keep expections low. I think K usually is pretty even-keeled, but can be as wrong as the rest of us...just not as often haha.

[Kfanarmy]

Or maybe he doesn't.

Are those the ONLY two possibilities with respect to Mono: he has it or he doesn't have it??

[Indoor66]

Are those the ONLY two possibilities with respect to Mono: he has it or he doesn't have it??

3. He might catch it one day?

[flyingdutchdevil]

3. He might catch it one day?

4. He had mono earlier in his life

[OldPhiKap]

5. He had stereo, and gave one side away?

[CameronBornAndBred]

Are those the ONLY two possibilities with respect to Mono: he has it or he doesn't have it??


3. He might catch it one day?

Might be still deciding.

[jimsumner]

Might be still deciding.

Silent verbal commitment from a disease to be named later.

Look, the Canadian games were hardly the best opportunity for Bolden to show his best stuff.

Duke was absent its two best ball-handlers and then AOC went down after three or so minutes.

That left the ball in Barrett and Williamson's hands.

Both are willing and talented passers. But neither is the guy who is going to start Duke's half-court offense 30 feet from the basket, at least not on a regular basis.

They didn't have to last week. The competition allowed Duke to turn all three games into a 40-minute, 94-foot, run, jump, dunk-athon, an unstructured environment that played into the considerable strengths of Barrett and Williamson, not Bolden.

Of course, as I mentioned earlier, the lesser-talented Vrankovic found a way to contribute. Bolden did not.

Duke isn't going to be able to consistently play that way against better competition and almost everyone down the road will be better.

Teams are going to make Duke execute in the half court.

Imagine you're playing defense against Duke. You are going to give Barrett extra attention. You are going to give Williamson extra attention. You are going to give Reddish extra attention.

You aren't going to give extra attention to Bolden, DeLaurier, White, Vrankovic, Baker or Robinson. You don't have that many extra attentions to go around.

That means the other Duke front-court players play off those three and let Jones distribute. There will be seams and you find those seams and you exploit them.

Of course, it's not that easy. You need proper spacing, ball movement and good decision making.

But Bolden is 6-11, 250, long, strong and reasonably athletic for someone that size. Get on the blocks, seal your defender, receive an entry pass and make a short jump hook.

It's not sexy, it's not going to make Sports Center. But it's not the Manhattan Project, either. Duke is going to need that consistent low-post option to beat the better teams on its schedule and Bolden is best equipped to give them that.

Duke is going to need a confident, fully engaged Marques Bolden to maximize its potential this season. No one else brings to the table what Bolden brings to the table. We've seen him do it sporadically. It's time for him to do it consistently.

As always, your mileage may vary.

[azzefkram]

Silent verbal commitment from a disease to be named later...

As always, your mileage may vary.

I couldn't spork you (phrasing) but well said and I couldn't agree more.

[whereinthehellami]

...But Bolden is 6-11, 250, long, strong and reasonably athletic for someone that size. Get on the blocks, seal your defender, receive an entry pass and make a short jump hook.

It's not sexy, it's not going to make Sports Center. But it's not the Manhattan Project, either. Duke is going to need that consistent low-post option to beat the better teams on its schedule and Bolden is best equipped to give them that.

Duke is going to need a confident, fully engaged Marques Bolden to maximize its potential this season. No one else brings to the table what Bolden brings to the table. We've seen him do it sporadically. It's time for him to do it consistently...

I agree on the above premise but am hoping that Javin can fill this role. I like the size and potential of Bolden but everything about Javin plays better with the above scenario.

[peloton]

3. He might catch it one day?

6. He tried to catch it but dropped it (this of course might explain why MB's athletic exploits take place on the hardwood and not on the diamond).

[loaded question]

As an upperclassmen, Bolden has to set the standard for energy and camaraderie for the freshmen. instead of taking the mantle he lowered the bar.

[Billy Dat]

Teams are going to make Duke execute in the half court.

Imagine you're playing defense against Duke. You are going to give Barrett extra attention. You are going to give Williamson extra attention. You are going to give Reddish extra attention.

You aren't going to give extra attention to Bolden, DeLaurier, White, Vrankovic, Baker or Robinson. You don't have that many extra attentions to go around.

That means the other Duke front-court players play off those three and let Jones distribute. There will be seams and you find those seams and you exploit them.

Of course, it's not that easy. You need proper spacing, ball movement and good decision making.

But Bolden is 6-11, 250, long, strong and reasonably athletic for someone that size. Get on the blocks, seal your defender, receive an entry pass and make a short jump hook.

It's not sexy, it's not going to make Sports Center. But it's not the Manhattan Project, either. Duke is going to need that consistent low-post option to beat the better teams on its schedule and Bolden is best equipped to give them that.

Duke is going to need a confident, fully engaged Marques Bolden to maximize its potential this season. No one else brings to the table what Bolden brings to the table. We've seen him do it sporadically. It's time for him to do it consistently.

Thanks for your insights, Jim. I agree that we need a fully engaged Marques to maximize our potential, but I think we can still get pretty high with Deslaurier setting screens and generally keeping the pain clear for drives (an issue last year), being a menace on defense, rim running, and rim protecting. I feel like he fits better with the presumptive freshman starters, and Marques can anchor the bench squad which, I am guessing, will have to play a little slower due to the nature of the pieces (AOC and Jack White).

[jimsumner]

Thanks for your insights, Jim. I agree that we need a fully engaged Marques to maximize our potential, but I think we can still get pretty high with Deslaurier setting screens and generally keeping the pain clear for drives (an issue last year), being a menace on defense, rim running, and rim protecting. I feel like he fits better with the presumptive freshman starters, and Marques can anchor the bench squad which, I am guessing, will have to play a little slower due to the nature of the pieces (AOC and Jack White).

I'm strongly in favor of keeping the pain clear. :)

Look DeLaurier and Bolden bring different things to the table. Bolden certainly hasn't shown DeLaurier's consistent motor and DeLaurier is significantly better in transition, both offensively and defensively. He loves the chase-down block more than anyone I've ever seen.

But Bolden can back down a defender in the low-post and score inside at a level we haven't seen from the more mobile but much thinner DeLaurier.

I think that aspect of Bolden's game can be developed into a real weapon this season.

I think DeLaurier's energy and quickness can also be developed into a real weapon this season.

I do not think they are mutually exclusive. But I do think they are different.

[subzero02]

I'm strongly in favor of keeping the pain clear. :)

Look DeLaurier and Bolden bring different things to the table. Bolden certainly hasn't shown DeLaurier's consistent motor and DeLaurier is significantly better in transition, both offensively and defensively. He loves the chase-down block more than anyone I've ever seen.

But Bolden can back down a defender in the low-post and score inside at a level we haven't seen from the more mobile but much thinner DeLaurier.

I think that aspect of Bolden's game can be developed into a real weapon this season.

I think DeLaurier's energy and quickness can also be developed into a real weapon this season.

I do not think they are mutually exclusive. But I do think they are different.

Grayson liked doing this too, however as his minutes and injuries began to pile up, his body wasn't too fond of the play. It really does invite awkward landings on other players and baseline clutter/persons.

[jimsumner]

Grayson liked doing this too, however as his minutes and injuries began to pile up, his body wasn't too fond of the play. It really does invite awkward landings on other players and baseline clutter/persons.

Baseline Clutter Persons would be a great name for a rock group.

[fuse]

Baseline Clutter Persons would be a great name for a rock group.

Not allowed to spork you, so I thought I would share that this is the most insightful post on this thread. Cheers!

[RPS]

He loves the chase-down block more than anyone I've ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgade7_mjHc

More (lots more) here (https://youtu.be/O8l-t4t5KXU).

[wobatus]

Just some of the Zion Williamson show. So I don't know what the story is with his effort or results in The Great White North.

But from what I recall watching him play last year, and just looking at his stats and advanced metrics, the guy is pretty good already and just hasn't had the court time or been enough of a priority on a loaded team to really flash his stuff. Box +/-, WS/40, Block %, rebounding %, effective FG %, Player Efficiency Rating, nice O rtg and D rtg, etc. All look pretty good, all maintained in conference essentially. Not a huge sample size of course. Certainly an improvement over a freshman year when he barely played and was hurt (so he really hasn't had 2 years of development time yet).

Of course, you sign 3 more (or 4 more?) one and dones who will suck a lot of the air out of the room. But i think he will be pretty good this year, and really have a chance to shine next year if he stays. It may not have been the progression he wished for when he started out, but it's still there for the taking for him.

K isn't for everyone. Plenty of guys have thrived there. Some have gone elsewhere and thrived. Some have bombed out anywhere they went. Bolden doesn't seem like he will bomb out if you ask me, whether he stays or ends up grad transferring. Regardless, actual results on the court look pretty encouraging to me.

T-Rank's projection for him is 7.9 ppg and 7.4 rpg. Sounds about right considering all the weapons. Could see that upped to 10 and 8. Couple of blocks. Then next year he becomes more of a focal point.

So, whatever people saw in Canada, sure, discuss and hope it isn't a harbinger. But frankly I wouldn't be too worried, because in games that matter he has already shown he is pretty good even when he isn't featured. My assumption is he will be even better this year.

[Kedsy]

Just some of the Zion Williamson show. So I don't know what the story is with his effort or results in The Great White North.

But from what I recall watching him play last year, and just looking at his stats and advanced metrics, the guy is pretty good already and just hasn't had the court time or been enough of a priority on a loaded team to really flash his stuff. Box +/-, WS/40, Block %, rebounding %, effective FG %, Player Efficiency Rating, nice O rtg and D rtg, etc. All look pretty good, all maintained in conference essentially. Not a huge sample size of course. Certainly an improvement over a freshman year when he barely played and was hurt (so he really hasn't had 2 years of development time yet).

Of course, you sign 3 more (or 4 more?) one and dones who will suck a lot of the air out of the room. But i think he will be pretty good this year, and really have a chance to shine next year if he stays. It may not have been the progression he wished for when he started out, but it's still there for the taking for him.

K isn't for everyone. Plenty of guys have thrived there. Some have gone elsewhere and thrived. Some have bombed out anywhere they went. Bolden doesn't seem like he will bomb out if you ask me, whether he stays or ends up grad transferring. Regardless, actual results on the court look pretty encouraging to me.

T-Rank's projection for him is 7.9 ppg and 7.4 rpg. Sounds about right considering all the weapons. Could see that upped to 10 and 8. Couple of blocks. Then next year he becomes more of a focal point.

So, whatever people saw in Canada, sure, discuss and hope it isn't a harbinger. But frankly I wouldn't be too worried, because in games that matter he has already shown he is pretty good even when he isn't featured. My assumption is he will be even better this year.

I finally watched the three games, and I think people might be overreacting. Though before discussing that, I'll say I think there's no way Marques goes for 8 and 7, and certainly no way he goes for 10 and 8.

That said, first of all, I don't read any significance at all into the fact that Marques didn't start in Montreal. Because Javin didn't start in Montreal, either, and he played two spectacular games in Toronto.

Second, I saw no evidence of attitude problems at all. Marques didn't sulk, he cheered his teammates on the bench, and he didn't mope around on the court or anything like that.

Third, I thought that in all three games, when Marques was in he played pretty well. His defense seemed pretty strong to me. He seemed engaged in the game, moved around fine, set good screens. He may not have asserted himself on offense, but with RJ and Zion controlling the ball it probably wasn't so easy to assert oneself out there.

Finally, the one thing I think it's fair to pin on him is he didn't dominate. With his size and length, I suppose a lot of us expected him to be a dominant big man and he clearly wasn't. Statistically, he didn't get as many rebounds as perhaps we would have liked, and his only two credited blocks occurred in the first 6.5 minutes of the first game.

The thing is, I guess after hearing all the angst around here, I expected to see poor play from Marques. I didn't. Though maybe Coach K saw something I missed, since his comments after (I believe) the second game seemed a little pointed. I don't know what was up with that.

In any event, while I agree Marques wasn't dominant and his stats weren't great, I don't think it's time to panic or bail on him yet. Maybe he won't see 25+ mpg or score so many points, but I think there's a good chance he'll be a very valuable member of the team.

That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.

[CDu]

I think the issue is that, given the very low quality of opponents, the fact that Bolden didn’t impress at all is a concern. I mean, yes, the freshmen led the charge. But it isn’t like they gave the other guys no chances. Heck, Vrankovic totaled 18 points, 15 rebounds, and 4 blocks in his 45 minutes. Bolden totaled 0 points, 9 rebounds, and 2 blocks in his 39 minutes. Pretty much everyone remotely close to the rotation had plenty of nice moments except for Bolden. He didn’t look necessarily bad compared to the opposition, but “not bad” against teams that wouldn’t sniff ACC level play isn’t a ringing endorsement. Again, just look at the Vrank line compared with Bolden’s.

Now, that is not to say that Bolden won’t find his rhythm by the time the season rolls around. But I do completely understand the concern with his performance in Canada. It was essentially nonexistent in all three games, and that shouldn’t happen to a guy who should have been easily one of the top 4 Duke players in those games (with Reddish, Jones, and O’Connell out).

[Kedsy]

I think the issue is that, given the very low quality of opponents, the fact that Bolden didn’t impress at all is a concern. I mean, yes, the freshmen led the charge. But it isn’t like they gave the other guys no chances. Heck, Vrankovic totaled 18 points, 15 rebounds, and 4 blocks in his 45 minutes. Bolden totaled 0 points, 9 rebounds, and 2 blocks in his 39 minutes. Pretty much everyone remotely close to the rotation had plenty of nice moments except for Bolden. He didn’t look necessarily bad compared to the opposition, but “not bad” against teams that wouldn’t sniff ACC level play isn’t a ringing endorsement. Again, just look at the Vrank line compared with Bolden’s.

Now, that is not to say that Bolden won’t find his rhythm by the time the season rolls around. But I do completely understand the concern with his performance in Canada. It was essentially nonexistent in all three games, and that shouldn’t happen to a guy who should have been easily one of the top 4 Duke players in those games (with Reddish, Jones, and O’Connell out).

I understand. But watching the play, I thought Marques played better than Antonio, despite the stats saying otherwise. I guess Antonio was more aggressive on the boards, and that's important. But Marques played better defense, and I even thought he moved better on offense. I admit I'm at a loss to explain how Antonio got 7 more shots and 9 more free throws than Marques over the three games. I'm not usually an "eye test" guy, as I'm sure you know.

It might be expectations. I watched the games after reading all the posts, and I suppose I was expecting a lot worse from Marques than I saw.

That said, I agree that the fact that Marques didn't dominate against this level of competition is a red flag. But after watching, I'm not ready to give up on him just yet.

[wobatus]

I think there's no way Marques goes for 8 and 7, and certainly no way he goes for 10 and 8.


10 and 8 is a stretch, I suppose you are right. And looking at it, T-Rank has Bolden playing about 28 minutes and DeLaurier under 10, so that doesn't sound right. DeLaurier was also pretty good by advanced metrics in his time, which was about the same as Bolden. But DeLaurier averaged 7 fouls per 40, and Bolden just above 4, and he lowered that in conference (small sample size caveat, naturally).

I know you can't just extrapolate, but 8 and 7 is about what Bolden did if you just double his minutes from 12.9 to about 25+. 7.8 ppg 7.2 rpg. Only so many shots to go around, but he wouldn't need that many to average that. About 5.5+ shots a game. Could stand to up his FT rate a tad.

[Kedsy]

10 and 8 is a stretch, I suppose you are right. And looking at it, T-Rank has Bolden playing about 28 minutes and DeLaurier under 10, so that doesn't sound right. DeLaurier was also pretty good by advanced metrics in his time, which was about the same as Bolden. But DeLaurier averaged 7 fouls per 40, and Bolden just above 4, and he lowered that in conference (small sample size caveat, naturally).

I know you can't just extrapolate, but 8 and 7 is about what Bolden did if you just double his minutes from 12.9 to about 25+. 7.8 ppg 7.2 rpg. Only so many shots to go around, but he wouldn't need that many to average that. About 5.5+ shots a game. Could stand to up his FT rate a tad.

One thing I did take away from the games in Canada, is I don't think Marques will get 5 or 6 shots a game. In three games north of the border he managed 3 shots total. There certainly won't be more shots to go around after you add Cam, Tre, and Alex back into the rotation. Also, can't tell at this point how many minutes anyone gets, but after seeing Javin's play I'll be surprised if Marques plays 25+. Add those together and 8 and 7 sounds like a stretch too.

But the good news is he doesn't have to average 8 and 7 to be a big contributor to the team.

[wobatus]

One thing I did take away from the games in Canada, is I don't think Marques will get 5 or 6 shots a game. In three games north of the border he managed 3 shots total. There certainly won't be more shots to go around after you add Cam, Tre, and Alex back into the rotation. Also, can't tell at this point how many minutes anyone gets, but after seeing Javin's play I'll be surprised if Marques plays 25+. Add those together and 8 and 7 sounds like a stretch too.

But the good news is he doesn't have to average 8 and 7 to be a big contributor to the team.

A few blocks, rebounds and put-backs is a big help for sure. He will likely get a lot more opportunity to shine next year. It may be the 3 shots in 3 games that got him a little down, if that's what the eyeball test is saying to some people. He's got to stay positive (for all I know he is) even if he isn't a focal point again.

[MarkD83]

Another thing to consider is .... was Zion so dominant because other teams had to keep a man on Marques. With two big men in at a time it does free up the more dominant player

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Another thing to consider is ... was Zion so dominant because other teams had to keep a man on Marques. With two big men in at a time it does free up the more dominant player

...after consideration.....no, I don't think so.

[Philadukie]

I thought Marques played better than Antonio, despite the stats saying otherwise.

This is provocatively contrarian but wrong. Everyone, including the GOAT himself, disagrees.

I always appreciate your posts, but that statement sacrifices common sense in the service of trying to point something out that others don’t see, which you’re usually pretty good at.

Antonio far outplayed Marques, despite how well Marques “moved” on offense and defense.

[MarkD83]

...after consideration....no, I don't think so.

So ..... you considered it and therefore it is possible

[cato]

Everyone, including the GOAT himself, disagrees.

The problem with goats is how inscrutable they can be.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

So .... you considered it and therefore it is possible

I considered it, for about two seconds, and found the theory highly unlikely.

[MarkD83]

I considered it, for about two seconds, and found the theory highly unlikely.

Moving on to the next crazy theory.....

[flyingdutchdevil]

Moving on to the next crazy theory....

Aliens took over Marques’s body.

Done. Next subject.

[MarkD83]

Aliens took over Marques’s body.

Done. Next subject.

The Space Jam theory. I like it

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

The Space Jam theory. I like it

I shall consider it.

[Kedsy]

Everyone, including the GOAT himself, disagrees.

I'm not going to argue with you about the substance, but serious question: have you seen a quote from Coach K saying Antonio played better than Marques? I haven't (not saying those quotes definitely aren't out there, just saying I haven't seen them). All I've seen are quotes implying Antonio played better than expected and other quotes implying Marques played worse than expected.

And if that's all that's out there, then you probably don't know how Coach K ranks the two players. I mean, if I was playing ball with LeBron and I played the best game of my life and LeBron played the worst game of his life, he would still almost certainly have played better than me, even if the coach praised my performance and panned his.

[CDu]

I'm not going to argue with you about the substance, but serious question: have you seen a quote from Coach K saying Antonio played better than Marques? I haven't (not saying those quotes definitely aren't out there, just saying I haven't seen them). All I've seen are quotes implying Antonio played better than expected and other quotes implying Marques played worse than expected.

And if that's all that's out there, then you probably don't know how Coach K ranks the two players. I mean, if I was playing ball with LeBron and I played the best game of my life and LeBron played the worst game of his life, he would still almost certainly have played better than me, even if the coach praised my performance and panned his.

Well, to be complete, we have more than just the quotes praising Vrank and critical of Bolden. We have the stats that unequivocally and uniformly suggest that Vrank out performed Bolden (better scoring, rebounding, and shotblocking, and fewer fouls per minute). And we have Coach K benching Bolden in favor of Vrank in game 3. It doesn’t take a huge leap to connect those dots.

Now, do I think Bolden will play less than Vrank? Absolutely not. But I would have a really hard time digesting the idea that Boldrn played better than Vrank in those three games. And I would be surprised if Coach K came away thinking Bolden outplayed Vrank in Canada.

[Kedsy]

Well, to be complete, we have more than just the quotes praising Vrank and critical of Bolden. We have the stats that unequivocally and uniformly suggest that Vrank out performed Bolden (better scoring, rebounding, and shotblocking, and fewer fouls per minute). And we have Coach K benching Bolden in favor of Vrank in game 3. It doesn’t take a huge leap to connect those dots.

Now, do I think Bolden will play less than Vrank? Absolutely not. But I would have a really hard time digesting the idea that Boldrn played better than Vrank in those three games. And I would be surprised if Coach K came away thinking Bolden outplayed Vrank in Canada.

Yeah, except he also "benched" Javin DeLaurier in favor of Jordan Goldwire in game 3, so I'm not sure how much that dot is worth.

I don't deny that Vrankovic outscored and outrebounded Bolden over the three games. The four blocks (AV) vs. two-blocks-two-steals (MB) is a bit of a wash in such a small sample. And I thought, overall, Bolden's D was better than Vrankovic's D. But all I was talking about in my previous post was whether, "Everyone, including the GOAT himself, disagrees" with me, and I don't think we know that.

[CDu]

Yeah, except he also "benched" Javin DeLaurier in favor of Jordan Goldwire in game 3, so I'm not sure how much that dot is worth.

I don't deny that Vrankovic outscored and outrebounded Bolden over the three games. The four blocks (AV) vs. two-blocks-two-steals (MB) is a bit of a wash in such a small sample. And I thought, overall, Bolden's D was better than Vrankovic's D. But all I was talking about in my previous post was whether, "Everyone, including the GOAT himself, disagrees" with me, and I don't think we know that.

Well, except DeLaurier still played 20 minutes in his “benching”, whereas Bolden played just 10. And of course there weren’t negative comments from Coach K about DeLaurier’s play before he was moved to the bench. So, I don’t think DeLaurier is a good piece of evidence to counter the idea that Coach K thought Bolden played badly. Again, it is the confluence of all of those data points that make up the evidence; not just any single data point.

[kAzE]

I'm a little surprised there is such a spirited debate about this going already. I agree with Kedsy for the most part that these 3 games don't tell us much about Bolden. But I disagree that he played as well or better than any of the other big men. I can remember several times while watching the games where a bit more effort from Bolden could have resulted in a rebound or a secured loose ball that we ended up not getting because he either wasn't aware or just didn't make the extra effort.

But these are things that can be addressed. We shouldn't be questioning his ability, because we've seen him play very well as recently as 5 months ago, and against much better competition. Whether he's in the dog house or not, we will see much better performances from Bolden this year.

However, I do think Zion's emergence as a major presence in the paint has some potential to reduce Bolden's role on the team. The "death" lineup that has become more and more hyped on these message boards obviously does not include Bolden. I also don't think we will be seeing many lineups that include more than 1 of Bolden/Vrankovic/DeLaurier. By my estimation, those 3 guys are going to be competing for minutes all year.

[jimsumner]

I also don't think we will be seeing many lineups that include more than 1 of Bolden/Vrankovic/DeLaurier. By my estimation, those 3 guys are going to be competing for minutes all year.

This brings up an interesting point. What happens when Williamson sits. Does Duke go small with Reddish or Barrett at the 4? Does Duke play one of White, Baker or Robinson at the 4? Or does Duke go twin tower with two of Bolden, DeLaurier or Vrankovic? I think we will see the third option some, maybe a lot of somes, depending on whether DeLaurier continues to develop his nascent perimeter offensive skills.

[kAzE]

This brings up an interesting point. What happens when Williamson sits. Does Duke go small with Reddish or Barrett at the 4? Does Duke play one of White, Baker or Robinson at the 4? Or does Duke go twin tower with two of Bolden, DeLaurier or Vrankovic? I think we will see the third option some, maybe a lot of somes, depending on whether DeLaurier continues to develop his nascent perimeter offensive skills.

My guess would be that Jack White plays almost all of his minutes this year at the 4, and will be the backup power forward when Zion is on the bench (which shouldn't be very often in competitive games), or when Zion is in at center. Reddish at the 4 is another possibility, though right now, without having seen Cam at all, I think I would rather have Jack White guarding opposing 4s than Cam.

We have a ton of talent at the wing position. RJ, Cam, Alex, Joey if he doesn't redshirt, and even Zion can play the 3 on offense. RJ and Cam will be playing a ton of minutes, and Alex should be the 6th or 7th man, which means there aren't very many minutes available at SG or SF. So if that's the case, it makes sense for Jack to play the 4 almost exclusively when he's in the game. He's a bit undersized, but he's strong, tough, and he rebounds well for his size.

[UrinalCake]

However, I do think Zion's emergence as a major presence in the paint has some potential to reduce Bolden's role on the team.

Do we really know that Zion has emerged as a post presence? We’ve only seen him against three overmatched and undersized teams. The first opponent did have a seven footer who was pretty good, but I hardly think we can conclude that Zion will have as much success against ACC opponents as he did in Canada. I’ll wait and see how he does against a 6’8 power forward who can shoot the three, or a 7’ 250 pound center, before feeling comfortable with him manning the 5 in a death lineup. Guys like Elijah Thomas of Clemson (6’9 230), Paschal Chukwu from Syracuse (7’2, 228), and Nassir Little from the CHeats (6’7, 220) are the types of defenders we have yet to see Zion go up against.

[flyingdutchdevil]

This brings up an interesting point. What happens when Williamson sits. Does Duke go small with Reddish or Barrett at the 4? Does Duke play one of White, Baker or Robinson at the 4? Or does Duke go twin tower with two of Bolden, DeLaurier or Vrankovic? I think we will see the third option some, maybe a lot of somes, depending on whether DeLaurier continues to develop his nascent perimeter offensive skills.

I think Cam is our Mr. Versatility. He can easily play the 2-4 and likely will play some 1. He is 218 lbs, which is 14 lbs heavier than what Jayson Tatum clocked in at at Duke. And Tatum was our 4 for nearly the whole year.

IMO, Kaze is right about our big men situation. No way Coach K plays 2 of Bolden, Vrank, DeLaurier. If he does, it's either because a) foul trouble, b) it's pre-ACC and Coach K is bored and tinkering, or c) DeLaurier is shooting 45% from deep.

[arnie]

Do we really know that Zion has emerged as a post presence? We’ve only seen him against three overmatched and undersized teams. The first opponent did have a seven footer who was pretty good, but I hardly think we can conclude that Zion will have as much success against ACC opponents as he did in Canada. I’ll wait and see how he does against a 6’8 power forward who can shoot the three, or a 7’ 250 pound center, before feeling comfortable with him manning the 5 in a death lineup. Guys like Elijah Thomas of Clemson (6’9 230), Paschal Chukwu from Syracuse (7’2, 228), and Nassir Little from the CHeats (6’7, 220) are the types of defenders we have yet to see Zion go up against.
Wait a minute, I thought it was already established that Zion has no limits on a b-ball court. If LeBron can guard NBA centers and small forwards , certainly Zion can guard similar positions in the ACC😀.

[elvis14]

Do we really know that Zion has emerged as a post presence? We’ve only seen him against three overmatched and undersized teams. The first opponent did have a seven footer who was pretty good, but I hardly think we can conclude that Zion will have as much success against ACC opponents as he did in Canada. I’ll wait and see how he does against a 6’8 power forward who can shoot the three, or a 7’ 250 pound center, before feeling comfortable with him manning the 5 in a death lineup. Guys like Elijah Thomas of Clemson (6’9 230), Paschal Chukwu from Syracuse (7’2, 228), and Nassir Little from the CHeats (6’7, 220) are the types of defenders we have yet to see Zion go up against.


Wait a minute, I thought it was already established that Zion has no limits on a b-ball court. If LeBron can guard NBA centers and small forwards , certainly Zion can guard similar positions in the ACC😀.

Do we really want to continue to underestimate Zion? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and figure he can guard the 3, 4, 5 until I see otherwise. Not sure about the walking on water yet, it would depend on how much water and if it was covering a basketball court.

[thedukelamere]

I think Cam is our Mr. Versatility. He can easily play the 2-4 and likely will play some 1. He is 218 lbs, which is 14 lbs heavier than what Jayson Tatum clocked in at at Duke. And Tatum was our 4 for nearly the whole year.

IMO, Kaze is right about our big men situation. No way Coach K plays 2 of Bolden, Vrank, DeLaurier. If he does, it's either because a) foul trouble, b) it's pre-ACC and Coach K is bored and tinkering, or c) DeLaurier is shooting 45% from deep.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GrouchyDirectBrahmanbull-small.gif

Every time Javin squares up for 3, his body language is so confident that I want to believe he turned over a new leaf in practice and that he truly thinks he's going to sink the shot... Eventually he and Zion will be on the same page and his shot will go from being a "oops!" to a perfect "oop!!!"

[budwom]

Do we really want to continue to underestimate Zion? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and figure he can guard the 3, 4, 5 until I see otherwise. Not sure about the walking on water yet, it would depend on how much water and if it was covering a basketball court.

Of all the things this forum has discussed in the past few months, I don't recall "underestimating" Zion has been one of them. If anything, quite the opposite.