View Full Version : NBA off-season stuff (free agents, coaching changes, trades)
JasonEvans
05-11-2018, 11:33 AM
Let this thread be the home for free agent talk and other off-season activities (excluding the draft, which will have a thread of its own).
We will get the action started with this...
The Raptors just fired Dwayne Casey...
He won NBA Coach of the Year 2 days ago.
Let this thread be the home for free agent talk and other off-season activities (excluding the draft, which will have a thread of its own).
We will get the action started with this...
The Raptors just fired Dwayne Casey...
He won NBA Coach of the Year 2 days ago.
So who are the Raptors gonna hire that will be better than Casey?
Acymetric
05-11-2018, 12:03 PM
So who are the Raptors gonna hire that will be better than Casey?
Roy Williams ;)
In all seriousness, they could make a run at Jay Wright (I still don't think he'll go, but a much better chance than going to the Knicks). More likely, they go with some mediocre former NBA head coach that has had umpteen chances and failed to produce.
phaedrus
05-11-2018, 12:19 PM
So who are the Raptors gonna hire that will be better than Casey?
Steve Nash. Jay Triano. Dustin Triano. Greg Newton. Scotty Bowman.
Lots of possibilities.
dukelifer
05-11-2018, 12:40 PM
Let this thread be the home for free agent talk and other off-season activities (excluding the draft, which will have a thread of its own).
We will get the action started with this...
The Raptors just fired Dwayne Casey...
He won NBA Coach of the Year 2 days ago.
And the Coach with no votes is considered the best in the NBA.
Matches
05-11-2018, 12:46 PM
So who are the Raptors gonna hire that will be better than Casey?
Apparently Jerry Stackhouse is a candidate. I'm not making that up.
I mean, I *wouldn't* make that up....:confused:
And the Coach with no votes is considered the best in the NBA.Gregg Popovich says hi (love Brad though).
JasonEvans
05-11-2018, 12:53 PM
Apparently Jerry Stackhouse is a candidate. I'm not making that up.
I mean, I *wouldn't* make that up...:confused:
They should hire the best player in the history of the franchise**
VINSANITY!!
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f2/d5/21/f2d52190f3811e864efff6223c0f3d0e.jpg
-Jason "**-Ok, Chris Bosh might be the best Raptor of all time, there is a pretty good debate between him and Carter... but still" Evans
Troublemaker
05-11-2018, 12:54 PM
So who are the Raptors gonna hire that will be better than Casey?
They might promote from within. It was really assistant coach Nick Nurse that re-designed the Raptors offense (Zach Lowe article) (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22738462/zach-lowe-demar-derozan-kyle-lowry-toronto-raptors-nba), following GM Ujiri's directive to change the culture. The re-design led to the Raptors winning 59 games and actually doing a good job scoring on Cleveland in the playoffs, as they put up offensive ratings of 114, 121, 114, and 100 in the sweep. [The 100 in game 4 is arguably the result of demoralized surrender, after losing Game 3 at the buzzer].
It was really Toronto's complete inability to guard Cleveland that resulted in the sweep, and since defense is Casey's calling card, I can see why this move was made. I'm still surprised it happened, but I see the logic in it, and Ujiri is well-regarded as an excellent GM who deserves the benefit of the doubt. There will be tons of articles blasting Toronto for firing the COY, but ultimately Casey was receiving too much credit for a culture change whose impetus was provided by the GM and whose implementation was done by an assistant coach.
UrinalCake
05-11-2018, 12:55 PM
I think a lot of times teams fire their coaches just because they need to change SOMETHING, even if the coach isn’t the problem. Which is dumb, but it happens all the time. The Raptors have been committed to their Lowry/Derozan core for years and this was their best shot at making a run. They had a fantastic regular season but then crashed and burned again versus the Cavs. So they can’t just do the exact same thing all over again next year, because the fans won’t have that kind of patience. And they don’t want to get rid of Lowry or Derozan. The only thing left to do is fire their coach.
MChambers
05-11-2018, 01:04 PM
Steve Nash. Jay Triano. Dustin Triano. Greg Newton. Scotty Bowman.
Lots of possibilities.
Good list. If they wait a month, they can hire Barry Trotz after he wins the Stanley Cup.
phaedrus
05-11-2018, 01:15 PM
Good list. If they wait a month, they can hire Barry Trotz after he wins the Stanley Cup.
You must mean Paul Maurice.
More seriously, the Bucks' list of candidates supposedly includes Steve Clifford, Mike Budenholzer, Monty Williams, David Fizdale, David Blatt, and of course, Becky Hammon. Ettore Messina and Nick Nurse have also been mentioned. Some of these names could be in play for the Raptors as well.
jimsumner
05-11-2018, 01:21 PM
"It's easier to fire the coach, then fire the players."
The Epic of Gilgamesh.
CrazyNotCrazie
05-11-2018, 01:32 PM
Apparently Jerry Stackhouse is a candidate. I'm not making that up.
I mean, I *wouldn't* make that up...:confused:
Stackhouse was an assistant for the Raptors and has coached their G League team the last two years to get head coaching experience, winning coach of the year his first year (see how far winning coach of the year gets you). So he is somewhat legit.
I think the Knicks are now feeling some remorse for hurrying out to hire Fizdale when Casey might have been a better fit.
ncexnyc
05-11-2018, 01:37 PM
It's not like this is the first time the COY has been fired. Forum favorite George Karl also has this dubious honor.
They made Casey the scapegoat as it's definitely easier to fire the coach than retool a team, which has a number of questionable contracts.
JasonEvans
05-11-2018, 01:56 PM
which has a number of questionable contracts.
The Raptors are capped out until at least 2020.
They have 2 more years of Lowry at $64 mil total, 3 more years of DeRozan at $27.7 mil a season, they've got Ibaka for $44 mil over the next 2 years, and they owe $33 mil to Valanciunas for the next 2 seasons. But, perhaps most incredibly, Norman Powell will be getting $10 mil a year for the next 3 seasons. Feel free to use your google to look up Norman Powell... I know I did.
-Jason "meanwhile, VanVleet is hitting RFA at a time when his stock is at its peak, so they are either going to have to match or let him go when someone offers him $6-$10 mil a season" Evans
... perhaps most incredibly, Norman Powell will be getting $10 mil a year for the next 3 seasons. Feel free to use your google to look up Norman Powell... I know I did.
...
My guess was the adopted child of Norman Schwarzkopf and Colin Powell.
MartyClark
05-11-2018, 03:38 PM
I am very curious to see whether Becky Hammon gets serious consideration for a head coaching job. Five years ago, I would have said this was impossible and ill advised.Now, I'm saying that she should be judged on the merits and that she could well be the right choice for an NBA team.
JetpackJesus
05-11-2018, 03:39 PM
You must mean Paul Maurice.
More seriously, the Bucks' list of candidates supposedly includes Steve Clifford, Mike Budenholzer, Monty Williams, David Fizdale, David Blatt, and of course, Becky Hammon. Ettore Messina and Nick Nurse have also been mentioned. Some of these names could be in play for the Raptors as well.
Contrary to a post made elsewhere on this forum, she apparently can coach NBA basketball (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/pau-gasol-becky-hammon-can-coach-nba-basketball-period/ar-AAx81z9?OCID=ansmsnnews11).
rocketeli
05-11-2018, 05:00 PM
So I guess the other coaches gave him coy because they realized this was in the works and either wanted to make it harder to fire him or send a message that they thought he got a raw deal. Stevens doesn't need any help
Troublemaker
05-11-2018, 05:12 PM
It's not like this is the first time the COY has been fired. Forum favorite George Karl also has this dubious honor.
They made Casey the scapegoat as it's definitely easier to fire the coach than retool a team, which has a number of questionable contracts.
I don't think Ujiri was looking for a scapegoat. I think Ujiri legitimately believes he can hire a better coach than Casey and that Casey's defensive strategies were poor against Cleveland.
In the end, though, I'm not sure how much the coach will really matter. Boston and Philly are on the rise in the East, and both of those franchises seem to have higher-end talent than Toronto. Ujiri very well could hire a better coach, but it won't necessarily show up in the postseason results.
It's been admirable that Toronto has not blown it up yet all these years and will continue to try to build on top of stars that aren't top-15 players. But guys like Sam Hinkie probably have it right. If you don't have the top-end talent, you should tank until you do.
drummerdevil
05-11-2018, 06:58 PM
Let this thread be the home for free agent talk and other off-season activities (excluding the draft, which will have a thread of its own).
We will get the action started with this...
The Raptors just fired Dwayne Casey...
He won NBA Coach of the Year 2 days ago.
You may be right, and I may be wrong; however, the way I understand it is that Casey's peers voted him as coach of the year. The NBA's regular season awards aren't determined until after the playoffs end and I believe that while he is a strong candidate, Casey has not won yet.
JetpackJesus
05-11-2018, 11:34 PM
You may be right, and I may be wrong; however, the way I understand it is that Casey's peers voted him as coach of the year. The NBA's regular season awards aren't determined until after the playoffs end and I believe that while he is a strong candidate, Casey has not won yet.
There's an NBA Coaches Association COY award. They started it last year. That's the one Casey just won with Brad Stevens receiving 0 votes from his peers (worth noting that coaches submit only one name for this award). It's separate from the NBA COY award, which is voted on by the media.
drummerdevil
05-11-2018, 11:39 PM
There's an NBA Coaches Association COY award. They started it last year. That's the one Casey just won with Brad Stevens receiving 0 votes from his peers (worth noting that coaches submit only one name for this award). It's separate from the NBA COY award, which is voted on by the media.
Ah. Thank you for the clarification.
JetpackJesus
05-11-2018, 11:54 PM
Ah. Thank you for the clarification.
No worries. I had to look it up when I heard about the Stevens getting 0 votes thing yesterday because I had no idea there were two COY awards, either.
Billy Dat
05-17-2018, 09:19 AM
With the explosive emergence of the Celtics' Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown, it is interesting how quickly the conversation is pivoting to the Celtics potentially dealing Kyrie and Hayward and building around the dynamic duo instead. If the Celtics make the finals, expect this drumbeat to continue. All of this is because of the latest CBA's ability for the best players to make those Super Maxes and Sub Super Maxes. Forget about the punitive nature of over-the-cap-tax and repeater tax, teams are now terrified of committing $30MM-$40MM a year for the top players. Drafting well is so vitally important as having great players on rookie deals is, basically, a must.
phaedrus
05-17-2018, 01:03 PM
And the Bucks sign Budenholzer.
I supported the Hammon candidacy (in general), but I think Bud was the best option for the Bucks.
JasonEvans
05-22-2018, 12:57 PM
Oh snap... there is growing chatter that KAT wants out (https://www.sbnation.com/2018/5/21/17376216/karl-anthony-towns-trade-rumors-timberwolves?src=rss) of Minnesota.
There are a handful of teams that could offer the young pieces needed to acquire a player of Towns’ caliber. The Suns could ship this year’s No. 1 overall pick north as part of a package for the young all-star. The Magic could offer the No. 6 pick and Nikola Vucevic to help keep Minnesota’s big man rotation stocked. The Lakers could kick-start their rebuild by putting together a deal around former No. 2 overall pick Brandon Ingram and other pieces. If Towns is on the market, he’ll command a litany of offers.
I'd think Boston would be very interested and they have the kind of assets (both players and draft pieces) to get a deal done. Though I don't know how well Towns and Horford would fit together and I doubt Boston moves Horford (who has been their most valuable player in the playoffs).
-Jason "I could really see the Lakers trying to make a move around Ingram -- they could really sell Lebron and Paul George on playing with KAT, Lonzo, and Kuzma" Evans
Oh snap... there is growing chatter that KAT wants out (https://www.sbnation.com/2018/5/21/17376216/karl-anthony-towns-trade-rumors-timberwolves?src=rss) of Minnesota.
I'd think Boston would be very interested and they have the kind of assets (both players and draft pieces) to get a deal done. Though I don't know how well Towns and Horford would fit together and I doubt Boston moves Horford (who has been their most valuable player in the playoffs).
-Jason "I could really see the Lakers trying to make a move around Ingram -- they could really sell Lebron and Paul George on playing with KAT, Lonzo, and Kuzma" Evans
I honestly don't see a trade scenario that would work out great for the Celtics. Horford is indispensable to their culture, and seems like he'll be in Boston for the long haul. I share your skepticism that those 2 would be able to share the court effectively. Also, KAT's biggest strength is his scoring ability. His defense has been, and still is a massive question mark, which (fair or not) is a problem when you are a center. I'm not sure that's what a contending team like the Celtics, who have a plethora of other scoring options, is looking for in their franchise center that they have to pay 35+ million dollars for. Horford is kind of the ideal guy for them, even if he's far less talented than KAT. (Okay, maybe Anthony Davis is the IDEAL guy, but he's the perfect center for every team, and he's not leaving the Pelicans)
However, the Lakers do sound like a very realistic suitor for KAT. They have already openly put their entire team on the trading block, and with the amount of cap room they have available, look to be MAJOR players in the trade/free agent market this off season.
Acymetric
05-22-2018, 02:22 PM
I honestly don't see a trade scenario that would work out great for the Celtics. Horford is indispensable to their culture, and seems like he'll be in Boston for the long haul. I share your skepticism that those 2 would be able to share the court effectively. Also, KAT's biggest strength is his scoring ability. His defense has been, and still is a massive question mark, which (fair or not) is a problem when you are a center.
I'm not sure that's what most teams are looking for in their franchise center that they have to pay 35+ million dollars for. He would have to land somewhere that already has a defensive anchor on the interior to fall back on.
However, the Lakers do sound like a very realistic suitor for KAT. They have already openly put their entire team on the trading block, and with the amount of cap room they have available, look to be MAJOR players in the trade/free agent market this off season.
Not just that, you have to look at who they would have to give up to make that trade work (both in terms of what Minnesota would accept and what is allowed under NBA trade rules with regards to salaries). It is hard for me to imagine they would consider such a trade worth it, and if there is a missing piece to this Boston team I'm not sure KAT is it.
Unless you are at the bottom of the league looking for someone to build around, I think just going out to grab the theoretically "best" player available without regard for fit or salary implications for your existing core down the road is bad strategy, and it is not often in recent history that you could accuse the Celtics of having bad strategy when it comes to personnel and trades.
In any case, this off season has explosive potential for player movement. It's going to be super interesting to see what goes down. I'm willing to bet that there will be multiple blockbuster type deals involving all-star caliber players that no one expected.
Such is life when everyone is trying to load up to beat the Warriors. I can't wait!
richardjackson199
05-22-2018, 02:31 PM
In any case, this off season has explosive potential for player movement. It's going to be super interesting to see what goes down. I'm willing to bet that there will be some blockbuster type deals involving all-star caliber players that no one expected.
Such is life when everyone is trying to load up to beat the Warriors. I can't wait!
They have to. It is absolutely a foregone conclusion that the Warriors will win these playoffs, and likely with little drama. Hopefully next year's playoff finals will be more interesting than this year's will be.
At least Quinn will earn another Championship ring.
They have to. It is absolutely a foregone conclusion that the Warriors will win these playoffs, and likely with little drama. Hopefully next year's playoff finals will be more interesting than this year's will be.
At least Quinn will earn another Championship ring.
It really has been a boring playoffs, hasn't it? It sounds absurd, but it's probably fair to say that people are more excited about the off season than the NBA Finals. I know I am.
subzero02
05-22-2018, 03:21 PM
The all rookie teams were announcedoing today. Mitchell and Simmons were unanimous first team selections. Tatum missed out on being a unanimous first team selection due to one voter.
The votes can be viewed at the bottom of the article.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/bulls-forward-lauri-markkanen-named-to-all-rookie-team/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
JasonEvans
06-09-2018, 10:45 PM
Reminder that this is the thread where you should be talking about stuff like where Free Agents will go and other off-season issues.
So, should we get a poll going about LeBron's destination? Aside from LeBron, who is going to be the biggest name player to switch teams this off-season?
kshepinthehouse
06-10-2018, 08:53 AM
Reminder that this is the thread where you should be talking about stuff like where Free Agents will go and other off-season issues.
So, should we get a poll going about LeBron's destination? Aside from LeBron, who is going to be the biggest name player to switch teams this off-season?
My guess is Paul George.
WillJ
06-10-2018, 09:14 AM
Here's what I would do if I were Darryl Morey, if it could be made to work. Sign Lebron and then trade Harden back to OKC for Paul George in a sign-and-trade. I think Lebron, Paul and Harden is one too many ball-dominant stars....I think that George makes a better third wheel for any pair of the other three.
Here's what I would do if I were Darryl Morey, if it could be made to work. Sign Lebron and then trade Harden back to OKC for Paul George in a sign-and-trade. I think Lebron, Paul and Harden is one too many ball-dominant stars...I think that George makes a better third wheel for any pair of the other three.
I don’t think Houston has the cap space to sign LeBron outright. It would have to be a sign and trade. And George is a free agent (so he can’t be traded unless he does a sign-and-trade) who has been heavily linked to the Lakers.
kshepinthehouse
06-10-2018, 01:20 PM
I don’t think Houston has the cap space to sign LeBron outright. It would have to be a sign and trade. And George is a free agent (so he can’t be traded unless he does a sign-and-trade) who has been heavily linked to the Lakers.
They would also probably have to be willing to get rid of Capela and Gordon. They would be fine without Gordon but I’m not sure they wanna lose such a great, young, athletic big in Capela. Although, to sign Lebron I’m sure they would be willing to give up a lot. I’m not sure I would make many changes if I was Houston. They have the 3 and D to challenge the Warriors again next year if they bring everyone back. I’m not sure they should change their formula.
WillJ
06-10-2018, 02:14 PM
They would also probably have to be willing to get rid of Capela and Gordon. They would be fine without Gordon but I’m not sure they wanna lose such a great, young, athletic big in Capela. Although, to sign Lebron I’m sure they would be willing to give up a lot. I’m not sure I would make many changes if I was Houston. They have the 3 and D to challenge the Warriors again next year if they bring everyone back. I’m not sure they should change their formula.
I agree that getting rid of Capela is not a good idea....he's great and I think he'll still be on an underpriced contract.
Troublemaker
06-10-2018, 02:49 PM
Capela is also a restricted free agent. He's not going to agree to re-sign just to be traded to Cleveland. Also, free agents that sign new contracts can't even be traded until the winter.
Bobby Marks had an ESPN Insider ($$$) article (http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/23623586/houston-rockets-2018-nba-offseason-preview-draft-trades-free-agency) explaining Houston's cap situation. Basically, unless they can find a team to take Ryan Anderson's $20 million contract (and they probably don't have the draft assets to do so), they'll need Lebron to take a discount in the sign-and-trade and to trade away Gordon, Tucker, and Nene.
kshepinthehouse
06-10-2018, 03:02 PM
Capela is also a restricted free agent. He's not going to agree to re-sign just to be traded to Cleveland. Also, free agents that sign new contracts can't even be traded until the winter.
Bobby Marks had an ESPN Insider ($$$) article (http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/23623586/houston-rockets-2018-nba-offseason-preview-draft-trades-free-agency) explaining Houston's cap situation. Basically, unless they can find a team to take Ryan Anderson's $20 million contract (and they probably don't have the draft assets to do so), they'll need Lebron to take a discount in the sign-and-trade and to trade away Gordon, Tucker, and Nene.
Furthermore, Lebron is on record saying he will not take a discount.
WillJ
06-10-2018, 03:09 PM
Capela is also a restricted free agent. He's not going to agree to re-sign just to be traded to Cleveland. Also, free agents that sign new contracts can't even be traded until the winter.
Bobby Marks had an ESPN Insider ($$$) article (http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/23623586/houston-rockets-2018-nba-offseason-preview-draft-trades-free-agency) explaining Houston's cap situation. Basically, unless they can find a team to take Ryan Anderson's $20 million contract (and they probably don't have the draft assets to do so), they'll need Lebron to take a discount in the sign-and-trade and to trade away Gordon, Tucker, and Nene.
I did not know that. Wow - that Anderson contract is a millstone!
Furthermore, Lebron is on record saying he will not take a discount.
Interesting. Do you have a link?
I have to think his experience at the end of game one of the Finals is going to have an impact on his thinking.
kshepinthehouse
06-10-2018, 04:52 PM
Interesting. Do you have a link?
I have to think his experience at the end of game one of the Finals is going to have an impact on his thinking.
A quick google search should suffice. You will read the same thing from Chris Paul. Making it tough to get both of them on the Rockets.
kshepinthehouse
06-10-2018, 05:50 PM
Interesting. Do you have a link?
I have to think his experience at the end of game one of the Finals is going to have an impact on his thinking.
You mean when he quit on his team during overtime? When he sat down and pouted during the timeout? What does that have anything to do with how much money he will accept next year?
NSDukeFan
06-10-2018, 06:36 PM
You mean when he quit on his team during overtime? When he sat down and pouted during the timeout? What does that have anything to do with how much money he will accept next year?
I believe there might have been an event at the end of regulation that could have rattled LeBron a bit.
A quick google search should suffice.
Excellent! I look forward to the links.
kshepinthehouse
06-10-2018, 07:31 PM
Excellent! I look forward to the links.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nba.nbcsports.com/2017/12/15/report-lebron-james-wont-take-discount-from-max-salary/amp/
Troublemaker
06-12-2018, 05:47 AM
Over the past day, there has been some momentum towards Lebron-to-the-Lakers in the gambling markets.
One such update from twitter:
Derek BodnerVerified account @DerekBodnerNBA (https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA) 16h16 hours ago (https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/1006226214946770946)
Updated LeBron James odds from @bovadalv (https://twitter.com/BovadaLV)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfbVZzwXUAImY3V.jpg
Troublemaker
06-12-2018, 05:50 AM
As far as I can tell, the rush to get down bets on Lebron-to-the-Lakers originated from a Gary Payton rumor (that may turn out to be wrong).
Allow this USA Today article to explain (https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/06/gary-payton-lebron-james-jr-son-bronny-sierra-canyon-los-angeles-school-rumors-lakers-nba-cavs).
It has been reported that Bronnie's kids have registered in LA schools.
It was on the interweb, so I know it's true.
kshepinthehouse
06-13-2018, 08:36 AM
It has been reported that Bronnie's kids have registered in LA schools.
It was on the interweb, so I know it's true.
It also was reported that he doesn’t like the city of Houston and that Houston isn’t really a likely scenario.
kshepinthehouse
06-13-2018, 08:39 AM
First free agent news (or rumor) that I find intriguing is that Trevor Ariza is interested in the Warriors. This is the epitome of the type of player Golden state is looking for and I don’t think there is a better fit out there as far as someone that’s likely to sign there. He would provide toughness, defense, can guard 4 positions, 3 point shooting, and a championship DNA. If you hate the Warriors you may want to hope this doesn’t come to fruition.
JasonEvans
06-13-2018, 10:58 AM
First free agent news (or rumor) that I find intriguing is that Trevor Ariza is interested in the Warriors. This is the epitome of the type of player Golden state is looking for and I don’t think there is a better fit out there as far as someone that’s likely to sign there. He would provide toughness, defense, can guard 4 positions, 3 point shooting, and a championship DNA. If you hate the Warriors you may want to hope this doesn’t come to fruition.
The Warriors are the A#1 destination for guys who have earned enough and are the back end of their careers looking for a ring. Ariza will be 33 next year and has already made $75 mil in his career. While he might be able to get more somewhere else, I don't think anyone is going to pay him $10+ mil a season. Of course, the Warriors are likely to be in tax territory next season and need to decide how much they want to spend on a guy like Ariza.
-Jason "Ariza is a great fit with what the Warriors try to do in terms of spacing and switching" Evans
luvdahops
06-13-2018, 11:07 AM
First free agent news (or rumor) that I find intriguing is that Trevor Ariza is interested in the Warriors. This is the epitome of the type of player Golden state is looking for and I don’t think there is a better fit out there as far as someone that’s likely to sign there. He would provide toughness, defense, can guard 4 positions, 3 point shooting, and a championship DNA. If you hate the Warriors you may want to hope this doesn’t come to fruition.
It would also be a blow for Houston to not retain him, especially if you believe (as I do) the odds of the Rockets nabbing Lebron are slim at best. While he may have worn down (again) in the playoffs, Ariza has been a very important complementary piece for them during the Harden era.
kshepinthehouse
06-13-2018, 11:19 AM
It would also be a blow for Houston to not retain him, especially if you believe (as I do) the odds of the Rockets nabbing Lebron are slim at best. While he may have worn down (again) in the playoffs, Ariza has been a very important complementary piece for them during the Harden era.
If I was Houston I would try to bring back the exact same team I had last year. They were the perfect fit! Obviously you have to go at Lebron if you can but I think it would cripple their depth and possibly their three point shooting. I’m not sure the Rockets could have came up with a better combination of players than they did this past year. Their record with Paul and Harden on the floor together was unbelievable. With Paul and Harden playing together (when healthy) they were one of the best lineups of all time!
Billy Dat
06-13-2018, 12:55 PM
I listened to Zach Lowe's podcast with Steve Kerr and he stressed that the Warriors are going to try and get younger this offseason. He said that is a key way to keep things fresh, by having young guys fighting to make their mark and/or stay in the league. He thinks that will force the big 4 (or at least everyone save for flighty Klay) to play more of a mentor role which will also give them something to focus on as the long season unfolds. That sounds like good news for Quinn Cook and bad news for Swaggy, Zaza, David West, JaVale, etc.
It also was reported that he doesn’t like the city of Houston and that Houston isn’t really a likely scenario.
LeBron owns a house in Brentwood. I have only been to Houston once, but for someone who apparently likes LA, I do not think Houston can compare.
I listened to Zach Lowe's podcast with Steve Kerr and he stressed that the Warriors are going to try and get younger this offseason. He said that is a key way to keep things fresh, by having young guys fighting to make their mark and/or stay in the league. He thinks that will force the big 4 (or at least everyone save for flighty Klay) to play more of a mentor role which will also give them something to focus on as the long season unfolds. That sounds like good news for Quinn Cook and bad news for Swaggy, Zaza, David West, JaVale, etc.
Maybe good news for Grayson too?
superdave
06-13-2018, 04:54 PM
I listened to Zach Lowe's podcast with Steve Kerr and he stressed that the Warriors are going to try and get younger this offseason. He said that is a key way to keep things fresh, by having young guys fighting to make their mark and/or stay in the league. He thinks that will force the big 4 (or at least everyone save for flighty Klay) to play more of a mentor role which will also give them something to focus on as the long season unfolds. That sounds like good news for Quinn Cook and bad news for Swaggy, Zaza, David West, JaVale, etc.
Interesting tidbit. Here's Warriors ages -
Igoudala 34.50
Livingston 32.75
Young 33.00
Pachulia 34.50
West 37.80
McGee 30.50
Igoudala and Livingston are under contract for next year and in the rotation. The other guys could theoretically come back for the veteran minimum, but that seems unlikely especially with Durant grabbing more of the salary cap.
dukelifer
06-13-2018, 05:43 PM
It has been reported that Bronnie's kids have registered in LA schools.
It was on the interweb, so I know it's true.
Registered for HS even though his kid is going into 8th grade
Registered for HS even though his kid is going into 8th grade
It all has to do with the upcoming change in the NBA draft eligibility rule ...
Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
06-13-2018, 06:51 PM
It all has to do with the upcoming change in the NBA draft eligibility rule ...
It just proves that Lebron is/isn't the savviest player ever.
flyingdutchdevil
06-15-2018, 07:39 AM
"Winslow arrested on suspicion of sex crimes". I had a mini heart attack.
Thankfully not our Winslow.
kshepinthehouse
06-15-2018, 08:34 AM
"Winslow arrested on suspicion of sex crimes". I had a mini heart attack.
Thankfully not our Winslow.
Wheewww. I thought exactly the same thing. Looks like Winslow (Kellen) is running into more and more trouble with the law. I wonder if he still thinks he is a soldier.
Acymetric
06-15-2018, 01:54 PM
So, it looks like the long time speculation that Kawhi wants out of San Antonio is getting some more burn. It is still speculation (or at least unsourced information), but it has seemed fairly obvious based on the failure to publicly deny it by Kawhi that this was the case. The ESPN report lists Lakers as his desired landing spot. The problem is this: The Lakers have virtually nothing to offer for Kawhi in trade, including good draft picks (their fairly low value future picks would get even more worthless if they add Kawhi and/or LeBron). If I were the Spurs I would either find a better trade partner, or just keep him for two more years and see about negotiating a sign and trade down the line. Does anyone else see a viable trade landing Kawhi with the Lakers? Would it require another team (or more)?
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23803570/kawhi-leonard-wants-san-antonio-spurs
https://twitter.com/wojespn?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ct wgr%5Eauthor
Woj also reports that his preferred trade destination is the LA Lakers. This sets up nicely for Paul George (who was recently seen at the E3 gaming convention in LA with Lakers' guard Josh Hart), Kawhi, and LeBron to team up in LA.
I believe the most logical trade to get this done would be Kawhi for some combo of assets that includes Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, and Luol Deng, likely with a draft pick or 2.
Hard to say for sure, without seeing the full roster and what they do in free agency, but that team looks very dangerous. I wouldn't be very happy about this development if I were a Warriors fan.
So, it looks like the long time speculation that Kawhi wants out of San Antonio is getting some more burn. It is still speculation (or at least unsourced information), but it has seemed fairly obvious based on the failure to publicly deny it by Kawhi that this was the case. The ESPN report lists Lakers as his desired landing spot. The problem is this: The Lakers have virtually nothing to offer for Kawhi in trade, including good draft picks (their fairly low value future picks would get even more worthless if they add Kawhi and/or LeBron). If I were the Spurs I would either find a better trade partner, or just keep him for two more years and see about negotiating a sign and trade down the line. Does anyone else see a viable trade landing Kawhi with the Lakers? Would it require another team (or more)?
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23803570/kawhi-leonard-wants-san-antonio-spurs
The only viable trade route would involve sending Kuzma and one of Ball or Ingram, plus maybe some picks. The Spurs do a pretty good job of getting value out of lower picks. And if LA sent enough of them they might be able to entice them. But, yeah, it's probably going to require two of the Lakers' top prospects plus stuff to get Kawhi.
That being said, it might still work for LA even if they give away, say, Kuzma and Ball. They would have the cap space to sign (for example) Paul George and LeBron. A team of LeBron, Leonard, George, and Ingram plus whatever else they can put around those guys would be pretty interesting.
Acymetric
06-15-2018, 02:06 PM
The only viable trade route would involve sending Kuzma and one of Ball or Ingram, plus maybe some picks. The Spurs do a pretty good job of getting value out of lower picks. And if LA sent enough of them they might be able to entice them. But, yeah, it's probably going to require two of the Lakers' top prospects plus stuff to get Kawhi.
That being said, it might still work for LA even if they give away, say, Kuzma and Ball. They would have the cap space to sign (for example) Paul George and LeBron. A team of LeBron, Leonard, George, and Ingram plus whatever else they can put around those guys would be pretty interesting.
Another article I saw suggested that, to stay under the cap while signing George, LeBron, and trading for Leonard would require that Deng be included in the deal, as even waving him and stretching the contract doesn't get them there.
I know this has happened several times, but what are some recent (say, last 10 years) examples of teams trading a guy near the end of their contract after it becomes clear they won't resign? My gut feeling says that the teams who make those trades would at least sometimes, if not usually, have ended up better off in the long run just letting the players walk at the end of their contract.
Another article I saw suggested that, to stay under the cap while signing George, LeBron, and trading for Leonard would require that Deng be included in the deal, as even waving him and stretching the contract doesn't get them there.
I know this has happened several times, but what are some recent (say, last 10 years) examples of teams trading a guy near the end of their contract after it becomes clear they won't resign? My gut feeling says that the teams who make those trades would at least sometimes, if not usually, have ended up better off in the long run just letting the players walk at the end of their contract.
Oh for sure. Deng would have to go in the deal too. Just saying what value the Lakers would have to give back.
CrazyNotCrazie
06-15-2018, 02:20 PM
https://twitter.com/wojespn?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ct wgr%5Eauthor
Woj also reports that his preferred trade destination is the LA Lakers. This sets up nicely for Paul George (who was recently seen at the E3 gaming convention in LA with Lakers' guard Josh Hart), Kawhi, and LeBron to team up in LA.
I believe the most logical trade to get this done would be Kawhi for some combo of assets that includes Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, and Luol Deng, likely with a draft pick or 2.
Hard to say for sure, without seeing the full roster and what they do in free agency, but that team looks very dangerous. I wouldn't be very happy about this development if I were a Warriors fan.
As one who detests all things related to the Ball family, I would be fascinated to see Lonzo moved to the Spurs and have to answer to Coach Pop, in addition to having to live in San Antonio, not LA. Optimistically, it could be the best thing that could happen to Lonzo, though that would also mean that it would likely be the worst thing that could happen to his dad.
Acymetric
06-15-2018, 02:23 PM
Oh for sure. Deng would have to go in the deal too. Just saying what value the Lakers would have to give back.
Right, I guess I'm not convinced it would be worth it for the Spurs. Over the weekend I think I'm going to try to look at how these things panned out for other teams in similar situations that made the trade. The Spurs would not be championship contenders, would not be bad enough to secure high draft picks in the future, and would not be receiving any high draft picks in the trade. Seems like a pathway to long-term mediocrity, I have to wonder (and the Spurs organization is one that I trust is smart enough to evaluate this) if they aren't better off just hanging onto him and rebuilding after he leaves.
I think the Celtics can offer the best package of players and picks, but am not sure (as another smart front office) that they would part with it for what could just be a 2 year loan.
jimsumner
06-15-2018, 02:40 PM
Can San Antonio take Lonzo Ball but force the Lakers to keep his father?
Is that covered by the CBA?
JasonEvans
06-15-2018, 02:53 PM
So, Kwahi for Deng works straight up under the cap, but that deal ain't gonna happen.
Kwahi plus Bryn Forbes for Deng, Ball, and Kuzma also works under the cap. If you throw in a trade asset or two, that might interest San Antonio.
If the Spurs are really greedy, maybe they ask for all the Lakers young studs and not Luol Deng... Leonard for Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, and a couple other throw in salaries (Josh Hart and Tyler Innis) also works under the cap. If I was San Antonio, that is what I would try to get. I think the Lakers would probably make that deal too because having Kwahi would make them a very desirable destination for Lebron and PG13. Then you fill the rest of the roster with vets who are ring chasing and willing to take smaller salaries.
Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
06-15-2018, 02:55 PM
So, Kwahi for Deng works straight up under the cap, but that deal ain't gonna happen.
Kwahi plus Bryn Forbes for Deng, Ball, and Kuzma also works under the cap. If you throw in a trade asset or two, that might interest San Antonio.
If the Spurs are really greedy, maybe they ask for all the Lakers young studs and not Luol Deng... Leonard for Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, and a couple other throw in salaries (Josh Hart and Tyler Innis) also works under the cap. If I was San Antonio, that is what I would try to get. I think the Lakers would probably make that deal too because having Kwahi would make them a very desirable destination for Lebron and PG13. Then you fill the rest of the roster with vets who are ring chasing and willing to take smaller salaries.
I agree this is what the Spurs should angle for. I am just baffled by what the Lakers would be left with. Is a year older LBJ, Paul George, and Leonard with a mysterious injury with no support better than LBJ, Love, and JR Smith with middling pieces?
Matches
06-15-2018, 03:00 PM
I agree this is what the Spurs should angle for. I am just baffled by what the Lakers would be left with. Is a year older LBJ, Paul George, and Leonard with a mysterious injury with no support better than LBJ, Love, and JR Smith with middling pieces?
Yea any way you slice it the Lakers are going to be left very thin if they do what is needed to get LBJ, George and Leonard. They'll have one mid-level exemption to use on someone like Nerlens Noel but the bench is going to be ring-chasing vets and castoffs. They've pretty much got to keep at least one of Ingram and Ball to make it work. Ball is a bigger cap hit so they'd probably rather move him and keep Ingram, but SA might be more interested in Ingram. (I know I would be - Ball seems like a headache.)
CrazyNotCrazie
06-15-2018, 03:49 PM
Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but the NBA has sent a memo saying it is reviewing one and done but nothing will happen before 2021. So teams need to consider this when trading future draft picks, as the draft the year they get rid of it will be loaded. I think the NBA is smart in being transparent about this - sooner would be better than later, but there are a lot of implications of this potential change that they are working through.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23804458/memo-states-nba-draft-eligibility-shift-21
MartyClark
06-15-2018, 03:55 PM
Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but the NBA has sent a memo saying it is reviewing one and done but nothing will happen before 2021. So teams need to consider this when trading future draft picks, as the draft the year they get rid of it will be loaded. I think the NBA is smart in being transparent about this - sooner would be better than later, but there are a lot of implications of this potential change that they are working through.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23804458/memo-states-nba-draft-eligibility-shift-21
One and done is very good for the NBA. They are stalling any change is this requirement.
DukieInBrasil
06-15-2018, 04:01 PM
I agree this is what the Spurs should angle for. I am just baffled by what the Lakers would be left with. Is a year older LBJ, Paul George, and Leonard with a mysterious injury with no support better than LBJ, Love, and JR Smith with middling pieces?
Not sure why you included JR Smith in that equation, any more than you would include Kyle Korver or Jordan Clarkson. LBJ with Leonard, who is a dynamic defender and versatile offensive player, and Paul George, ditto but not quite as much of either, are better than Love+Smith/Clarkson/Korver. Love is a very good player, but doesn't seem to pair all that well with LBJ, and he's not athletic enough to quite get to elite anymore. So to answer your question, i would say yes, and probably by quite a bit. That being said, i don't think those 3 + middling pieces, randos and a mid-level exception are going to be able to beat the Warriors. Those 3 would still need a high-quality PG and a very tough rebounder, which i'm not able to think of any randos who fit that description. Tristan Thompson is a good very rebounder, but his deficiencies in other areas with regards to the modern style of play were painfully obvious in the Finals. George Hill is a quality PG, but his performance in the Finals did not rise to the level of high-quality, IMHO.
superdave
06-15-2018, 04:04 PM
So, Kwahi for Deng works straight up under the cap, but that deal ain't gonna happen.
Kwahi plus Bryn Forbes for Deng, Ball, and Kuzma also works under the cap. If you throw in a trade asset or two, that might interest San Antonio.
If the Spurs are really greedy, maybe they ask for all the Lakers young studs and not Luol Deng... Leonard for Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, and a couple other throw in salaries (Josh Hart and Tyler Innis) also works under the cap. If I was San Antonio, that is what I would try to get. I think the Lakers would probably make that deal too because having Kwahi would make them a very desirable destination for Lebron and PG13. Then you fill the rest of the roster with vets who are ring chasing and willing to take smaller salaries.
If the Lakers can swing Kawhi and keep one of Ingram/Ball/Kuzma, that's a great day.
If they have to trade all three, knowing it brings George and/or James, you dont hesitate. You pull that trigger!
But then the Lakers are left with $100 million split between the big three, and Luol Deng (waived, stretched) plus roster filler. It might be a year before they can fill out the roster to compete. James and George would be smart to sign shorter deals for less so they can add veterans.
Deng's contract would work on the Spurs because they are still trying to win and he's actually a good player, even if over the hill. The Lakers benched him to give minutes to the young guys, but he'd be an asset for the Spurs next season, then they could trade his expiring deal the following year if they really wanted.
WillJ
06-15-2018, 04:09 PM
I agree this is what the Spurs should angle for. I am just baffled by what the Lakers would be left with. Is a year older LBJ, Paul George, and Leonard with a mysterious injury with no support better than LBJ, Love, and JR Smith with middling pieces?
If Leonard is fully recovered, then I think the LBJ/PG/Leonard/BI quartet would be a handful for anyone, including the Warriors. JR Smith and especially Love have had value in the past, but they are much less valuable in today's game. Also, JR Smith stunk this year, even before his brain-cramp. In contrast, the posited Laker quartet offers shooting, passing and tremendous defensive potential.
Indoor66
06-15-2018, 04:18 PM
Can San Antonio take Lonzo Ball but force the Lakers to keep his father?
Is that covered by the CBA?
Only if they throw in a draft pick - any pick.
superdave
06-15-2018, 04:27 PM
Assuming Kawhi would consider long term deals in other places and his goal is to compete now - which deal would the Spurs want?
Sixers - Fultz, Covington
Celtics - Jaylen Brown, 2019 Kings picks, 2019 Grizzlies pick
Lakers - Deng, Ball, Kuzma
I am not sure how trading picks counts towards making salaries work, but Boston seems to have more enticing assets to offer. I doubt Kawhi wants to go to Boston, given the Lakers were the team named today.
Also, what are the odds a team takes a flyer for one year on Kawhi? OKC did for Paul George this year. Non-destination teams could do it - maybe Portland, Milwaukee, Sacramento.
Truth&Justise
06-15-2018, 04:56 PM
So I remember hearing rumblings all season about a rift between Kawhi and the Spurs, but I have to admit, I am totally out of the loop on how it got this far.
Can anyone explain the basics to me? What caused the relationship to sour so badly?
So I remember hearing rumblings all season about a rift between Kawhi and the Spurs, but I have to admit, I am totally out of the loop on how it got this far.
Can anyone explain the basics to me? What caused the relationship to sour so badly?
Pop blames it on Kawhi's "people."
kshepinthehouse
06-15-2018, 05:36 PM
So I remember hearing rumblings all season about a rift between Kawhi and the Spurs, but I have to admit, I am totally out of the loop on how it got this far.
Can anyone explain the basics to me? What caused the relationship to sour so badly?
Disagreement over the handling of his quad injury. This story is sad to me as I think Kawhi owes a TON of credit to the Spurs organization for his development into arguably the best two way player in the game. They turned him into a much better shooter and offensive player than most would have predicted; to go along with his All world defense.
jimsumner
06-15-2018, 06:26 PM
Deng's contract would work on the Spurs because they are still trying to win and he's actually a good player, even if over the hill. The Lakers benched him to give minutes to the young guys, but he'd be an asset for the Spurs next season, then they could trade his expiring deal the following year if they really wanted.
Is he actually still a good player? Darned if I know. He's 33, has a lot of mileage on him, has had more than his share of injuries and got paid a boatload of money last season for sitting on the bench and twiddling his thumbs.
Figuratively.
He may still have some mileage left. But I'm not sure we have a good read on that. Future utility as a player is very much TBD, I suspect.
Disagreement over the handling of his quad injury. This story is sad to me as I think Kawhi owes a TON of credit to the Spurs organization for his development into arguably the best two way player in the game. They turned him into a much better shooter and offensive player than most would have predicted; to go along with his All world defense.
It would be amusing if LA were to keep Ball and bring in Kawhi and Bron. Wonder how the entourages would coexist?
YmoBeThere
06-15-2018, 06:46 PM
I wonder if he still thinks he is a soldier.
I'm curious as to what this means?
kmspeaks
06-15-2018, 06:50 PM
I'm curious as to what this means?
Let's let Mr. Winslow explain. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I82BPA5QAaQ)
YmoBeThere
06-15-2018, 06:59 PM
Let's let Mr. Winslow explain. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I82BPA5QAaQ)
Yes, well aware of that clip. But reading your post I'm curious if a reasonable interpretation of it is to equate his current alleged behavior (kidnap, rape and burglary) with that of a soldier?
kshepinthehouse
06-15-2018, 07:23 PM
Yes, well aware of that clip. But reading your post I'm curious if a reasonable interpretation of it is to equate his current alleged behavior (kidnap, rape and burglary) with that of a soldier?
Didn’t mean anything by it. Sorry if I offended anyone. I wasn’t connecting those behaviors to a soldier I was just making fun of Winslow. I didn’t read it in a way that anyone would equate the two. I have the utmost respect for our military. I was just taking a jab at Winslow. In no way, shape, or form was it in anyway related to the actual military.
Pop blames it on Kawhi's "people."
I heard on the radio today that the "people" is mainly his uncle(?) and that's also where the going to the Lakers stuff is coming from. And that Kawhi and Pop didn't have their meeting yet... and haven't said anything yet...
luvdahops
06-16-2018, 09:14 AM
Disagreement over the handling of his quad injury. This story is sad to me as I think Kawhi owes a TON of credit to the Spurs organization for his development into arguably the best two way player in the game. They turned him into a much better shooter and offensive player than most would have predicted; to go along with his All world defense.
Yup. Chip Engelland in particular invested a lot of time with Kawhi, to very positive effect.
UrinalCake
06-16-2018, 10:22 AM
Disagreement over the handling of his quad injury.
From what I understand, Leonard stopped accepting the advice of the team doctors and instead started seeing his own doctor (who also has connections with the Brooklyn Nets). There was disagreement over whether it was initially diagnosed properly. There was also disagreement over whether he was physically unable to play or whether he was simply choosing to sit out. He had been medically cleared to play by the Spurs doctors since January. Then he didn’t accompany the team to their playoff games, choosing to continue his treatment rather than cheering them on from the bench.
It’s definitely a sad situation. Leonard’s development into a star and his relationship with the Spurs organization was one of the best storylines in the NBA, and now it has all fallen apart.
As mock GM of the Spurs, I did some digging into this. I'm not a fan of Kawhi's "group", as Pop likes to call them. His agent is Mitch Frankel, who spent most of his time repping football players and is trying to leverage Kawhi into expanding into basketball, with little success. His uncle, Dennis Robertson, is fiercely loyal like a good uncle should be, but is also trying to build Kawhi's marketing presence, so San Antonio probably isn't his favorite spot on the globe.
Leonard's decision to reach out to Dr. Jonathan Glashow was poorly handled, and I suspect Frankel's past experience with the generally adversarial relationship between football players and team doctors had a lot to do with it.
Just the other day, there were articles out saying that things were "thawing" between Kawhi and the Spurs, and that Pop and Kawhi would be having a conversation. So Leonard's people had to counter-leak that he wants out to keep their leverage. All this is fixable if Pop and Kawhi can get in a room alone.
We have learned there are a few great blunders to avoid:
1. Never get involved in a land war in Asia
2. Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line
3. Never question the professionalism of the San Antonio Spurs
NSDukeFan
06-16-2018, 12:40 PM
4. Don’t always take your uncle’s advice if it’s contrary to the ethical team you are playing on.
JasonEvans
06-16-2018, 05:25 PM
I was just thinking about the Kwahi, Lebron, PG13, Ingram possibility. That is 4 guys who could easily switch everything on defense and be able to cover just about anyone they were switched onto. If they add one more solid 6-6 to 6-9 guy with their mid-level exemption then they might have the ultimate switch everything lineup. All those guys can handle and distribute like a PG, rebound like a big man, and shoot solidly from 3. Scary good... even if their bench would be among the worst in the NBA.
-Jason "I've heard talk about Kawhi for Heyward and a pick (or perhaps Heyward and Scary Terry, though you would need some salary cap filler from the Spurs to make that work)" Evans
kshepinthehouse
06-16-2018, 06:49 PM
I was just thinking about the Kwahi, Lebron, PG13, Ingram possibility. That is 4 guys who could easily switch everything on defense and be able to cover just about anyone they were switched onto. If they add one more solid 6-6 to 6-9 guy with their mid-level exemption then they might have the ultimate switch everything lineup. All those guys can handle and distribute like a PG, rebound like a big man, and shoot solidly from 3. Scary good... even if their bench would be among the worst in the NBA.
-Jason "I've heard talk about Kawhi for Heyward and a pick (or perhaps Heyward and Scary Terry, though you would need some salary cap filler from the Spurs to make that work)" Evans
Wow, the Celtics would be scary I’m that case. I find the Lakers scenario the only relastic scenario that would put Lebron in a position to challenge the Warriors. Reports are that Houston isn’t a likely scenario and they have to do a lot of finagling to make that happen while also losing a good chunk of their core. It looks to me like Lebron may have to be willing to go somewhere and build that team up to challenge in year 2 or 3. That could also combine with Klay or Draymond leaving somehow making the Warriors more vulnerable down the road.
Problem is, Lebron is playing at a high level (not a good enough word to describe it). With Lebron’s age and mileage, realistically how much longer can Lebron expect to compete? I’ve never seen anything like the way he is playing after 15 years in the league.
The mock Spurs GM is getting more and more peeved at Kawhi's camp.
Woj is correct that his moron agent and Uncle Dennis have not told anyone in our front office that Kawhi would like to be traded to the Lakers. We won't comment on why they thought it would be helpful to leak this all over the streets like a drunk leaving the bar after closing time, but they must have a good reason.
Everyone knows that Kawhi is signed with the Spurs for next season, and he holds a player option for 2019-20. Here are some other interesting salary facts:
1. We can offer him the supermax 5-yr $219 mill contract through October; no one else can. We would like to do that if he can, um, actually play. We would also like to actually see him play, rather than take Uncle Dennis' word for it.
2. If Kawhi plays for us next season and declines his player option, his max free agent contract is $149 mill (perhaps a little more due to salary cap bumps, but not much). If Kawhi stays healthy for us next year and makes one of the All-NBA teams, he can re-qualify for the supermax.
3. If we trade Kawhi and he resigns with his new team, he'll only lose $30 mill instead of $70 mill.
Here's what's NOT happening: we're not trading Leonard to either LA team. They have nobody we want. Just because Brandon Ingram is tall and skinny like KD doesn't mean he can play like KD. We're not going to put up with the Big Ballers, and why would we want Luol Deng's expiring corpse?
We will entertain offers from Boston and Philly. Boston made an offer before the deadline last February. We're not telling what it was, but it was tempting. And we're tight with our former assistant Brett Brown, and Doc Glashow consults with the Sixers, so Kawhi's camp should be ok with that. Even better for us, Coach Brown is acting GM since former GM Sonny Corleone got gunned down by his wife. We might take Saric, Fultz, and the #10 pick under consideration.
We also call BS on reports that Kawhi's people will gladly take less than the supermax. 33% less? That will get players knocking down the door to sign up.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/underestimated23835835/2018-nba-draft-trades-best-deals-see
The most intriguing one in there is Kyrie Irving for Kristaps Porzingis.
I'm a big Kyrie fan, but this trade is just amazing for the Celtics. They likely take a small hit in the short term, by losing Kyrie, who is a top 8-10 player in the league, but they get younger with the 23 year old Porzingis, and they morph into probably the greatest defensive team in the league (which they already were, but with this move, they become even better).
Imagine a lineup with Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Horford, and Porzingis. It's a huge lineup with almost none of the usual drawbacks of going big. Who runs the point? It doesn't really matter . . . Hayward, Tatum, Brown, and Horford are all capable ball handlers with good passing instincts. All 5 of them can shoot it from deep, and all 5 are intelligent, switchy defenders with length. When your shortest guy is 6'7", most opposing point guards are going to have a rough time on defense.
Bring Smart of the bench for more defense against smaller lineups, or Rozier for more offense. It would be a terrifying team for the next 5-10 years, and actually matches up quite well with Golden State IMO.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/underestimated23835835/2018-nba-draft-trades-best-deals-see
The most intriguing one in there is Kyrie Irving for Kristaps Porzingis.
I'm a big Kyrie fan, but this trade is just amazing for the Celtics. They likely take a small hit in the short term, by losing Kyrie, who is a top 8-10 player in the league, but they get younger with the 23 year old Porzingis, and they morph into probably the greatest defensive team in the league (which they already were, but with this move, they become even better).
Imagine a lineup with Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Horford, and Porzingis. It's a huge lineup with almost none of the usual drawbacks of going big. Who runs the point? It doesn't really matter . . . Hayward, Tatum, Brown, and Horford are all capable ball handlers with good passing instincts. All 5 of them can shoot it from deep, and all 5 are intelligent, switchy defenders with length. When your shortest guy is 6'7", most opposing point guards are going to have a rough time on defense.
Bring Smart of the bench for more defense against smaller lineups, or Rozier for more offense. It would be a terrifying team for the next 5-10 years, and actually matches up quite well with Golden State IMO.
It sure is interesting. Especially because Irving has hinted that he'd like to play for his "hometown" Knicks. Though if I'm the Knicks, I have to be thinking "wait till he is a free agent and hope we can pair him with Porzingis." Sure, there's risk there, in that Irving may decide to stay with the Celtics. But at least then you still have the unicorn.
kshepinthehouse
06-19-2018, 01:11 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/underestimated23835835/2018-nba-draft-trades-best-deals-see
The most intriguing one in there is Kyrie Irving for Kristaps Porzingis.
I'm a big Kyrie fan, but this trade is just amazing for the Celtics. They likely take a small hit in the short term, by losing Kyrie, who is a top 8-10 player in the league, but they get younger with the 23 year old Porzingis, and they morph into probably the greatest defensive team in the league (which they already were, but with this move, they become even better).
Imagine a lineup with Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Horford, and Porzingis. It's a huge lineup with almost none of the usual drawbacks of going big. Who runs the point? It doesn't really matter . . . Hayward, Tatum, Brown, and Horford are all capable ball handlers with good passing instincts. All 5 of them can shoot it from deep, and all 5 are intelligent, switchy defenders with length. When your shortest guy is 6'7", most opposing point guards are going to have a rough time on defense.
Bring Smart of the bench for more defense against smaller lineups, or Rozier for more offense. It would be a terrifying team for the next 5-10 years, and actually matches up quite well with Golden State IMO.
Top 8-10 is a little high in my opinion. I would love this trade if I were the Celtics.
moonpie23
06-19-2018, 01:37 PM
here's a twist.....(and btw, I love Kyrie Irving and want to be alive when he "finds out" that the earth is not flat.....;)
which trades would be the WORST for Kyrie?
New York ?
San Antonio ?
Lakers?
Clippers?
Cleveland?
LA ? (after lebron joins them)
man, i could think of some AWFUL situations that he could be in.....
luvdahops
06-19-2018, 01:55 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/underestimated23835835/2018-nba-draft-trades-best-deals-see
The most intriguing one in there is Kyrie Irving for Kristaps Porzingis.
I'm a big Kyrie fan, but this trade is just amazing for the Celtics. They likely take a small hit in the short term, by losing Kyrie, who is a top 8-10 player in the league, but they get younger with the 23 year old Porzingis, and they morph into probably the greatest defensive team in the league (which they already were, but with this move, they become even better).
Imagine a lineup with Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Horford, and Porzingis. It's a huge lineup with almost none of the usual drawbacks of going big. Who runs the point? It doesn't really matter . . . Hayward, Tatum, Brown, and Horford are all capable ball handlers with good passing instincts. All 5 of them can shoot it from deep, and all 5 are intelligent, switchy defenders with length. When your shortest guy is 6'7", most opposing point guards are going to have a rough time on defense.
Bring Smart of the bench for more defense against smaller lineups, or Rozier for more offense. It would be a terrifying team for the next 5-10 years, and actually matches up quite well with Golden State IMO.
I think you start Rozier to have a true primary ballhandler on the floor, and to provide better on the ball defense against opposing PGs. There are plenty of minutes (2, 3 and small ball 4) to go around for Brown, Tatum and Hayward, although one will need to be convinced to serve as a 6th man. That guy plus Smart plus a serviceable 10-15 mpg big like Baynes would be a rock solid rotation in my view. And an upgrade from how they look on paper now for next season.
Why would the Celtics trade Kyrie to a team he does not want to play for? He only has two years left on his deal, correct? Who would give up sufficient assets for the Celts to trade Kyrie, to receive only two years of Kyrie in exchange?
Why would the Celtics trade Kyrie to a team he does not want to play for?
Well, I doubt the Celtics would care too much about whether Irving wants to go there. That doesn't seem to be Ainge's m.o. They would just care whether the return is worth it.
He only has two years left on his deal, correct? Who would give up sufficient assets for the Celts to trade Kyrie, to receive only two years of Kyrie in exchange?
This is the bigger question, in my opinion. And actually, Irving has just one year left on his deal. He'll be a free agent next summer. Which is why I can't imagine too many teams lining up to trade for Irving. Unless you are someone like LA or New York: huge markets for his services, and in NY's case, the "hometown" team.
But even then, I'd suspect those teams aren't trading for him.
Well, I doubt the Celtics would care too much about whether Irving wants to go there. That doesn't seem to be Ainge's m.o. They would just care whether the return is worth it.
This is the bigger question, in my opinion. And actually, Irving has just one year left on his deal. He'll be a free agent next summer. Which is why I can't imagine too many teams lining up to trade for Irving. Unless you are someone like LA or New York: huge markets for his services, and in NY's case, the "hometown" team.
But even then, I'd suspect those teams aren't trading for him.
To be clear, I was not suggesting that the Celtics care about Irving’s preferred place of employment. Just that no one would offer sufficient value without a longer term deal in place, which means Irving would have to be at the table.
I thought Irving would be a free agent next summer, but saw something contradictory when I googled it.
To be clear, I was not suggesting that the Celtics care about Irving’s preferred place of employment. Just that no one would offer sufficient value without a longer term deal in place, which means Irving would have to be at the table.
I thought Irving would be a free agent next summer, but saw something contradictory when I googled it.
Irving has a player option for $21MM for the 2019-20 season. So he COULD be there for two more years. But he'll almost certainly opt to decline that option and become a free agent next summer.
phaedrus
06-19-2018, 04:41 PM
A lot of Duke players could move this summer. The following guys are free agents:
-Parker, Redick, Rivers, Curry, Okafor, Plumlee (III), Hood
In addition, the following have been the subject of credible trade rumors:
-Ingram, the expiring contract of Deng
Meanwhile, Tatum and Irving continue to be the subject of non-credible trade rumors. Should be an interesting summer.
A lot of Duke players could move this summer. The following guys are free agents:
-Parker, Redick, Rivers, Curry, Okafor, Plumlee (III), Hood
In addition, the following have been the subject of credible trade rumors:
-Ingram, the expiring contract of Deng
Meanwhile, Tatum and Irving continue to be the subject of non-credible trade rumors. Should be an interesting summer.
Minor quibble, but Deng’s contract isn’t expiring. He has two years left on his deal.
fraggler
06-19-2018, 04:48 PM
A lot of Duke players could move this summer. The following guys are free agents:
-Parker, Redick, Rivers, Curry, Okafor, Plumlee (III), Hood
In addition, the following have been the subject of credible trade rumors:
-Ingram, the expiring contract of Deng
Meanwhile, Tatum and Irving continue to be the subject of non-credible trade rumors. Should be an interesting summer.
The free agents should start their own team. It would be light on defense and the boards, but definitely wouldn't be the worst team.
The free agents should start their own team. It would be light on defense and the boards, but definitely wouldn't be the worst team.
I love my Dukies, but if I'm being honest, that would be the worst team in the league . . . . and it wouldn't be very close.
When Austin Rivers is the best defender on your team, you're probably in trouble.
I love my Dukies, but if I'm being honest, that would be the worst team in the league . . . . and it wouldn't be very close.
When Austin Rivers is the best defender on your team, you're probably in trouble.
And they would still be better than the Knicks or Nets.
Acymetric
06-19-2018, 05:26 PM
The free agents should start their own team. It would be light on defense and the boards, but definitely wouldn't be the worst team.
"Light on defense" - understatement of the year? ;)
fraggler
06-19-2018, 06:03 PM
"Light on defense" - understatement of the year? ;)
Easily solvable - pick up Matt Jones and see if we can get Amile Jefferson from the Twolves for cash considerations.
And they would still be better than the Knicks or Nets.
I mean . . . considering Okafor can't even get minutes for the Nets, I think you might be reaching a bit.
As dysfunctional as the Knicks are, they still won 29 games even without Porzingis for the most part. I think they would handle this proposed Duke free agents team pretty handily. Porzingis would be by far the best player in that match up. Besides, they have Lance Thomas locking it down on the defensive end.
JNort
06-20-2018, 08:59 AM
A lot of Duke players could move this summer. The following guys are free agents:
-Parker, Redick, Rivers, Curry, Okafor, Plumlee (III), Hood
In addition, the following have been the subject of credible trade rumors:
-Ingram, the expiring contract of Deng
Meanwhile, Tatum and Irving continue to be the subject of non-credible trade rumors. Should be an interesting summer.
Wait what trade rumors has Ingram been apart of?
Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
06-20-2018, 09:08 AM
Wait what trade rumors has Ingram been apart of?
Efforts by the Lakers to get LBJ, Leonard, and George would involve having to divest much of their young talent.
Efforts by the Lakers to get LBJ, Leonard, and George would involve having to divest much of their young talent.
Most specifically any possible trade for Leonard. James and George are free agents and the Lakers can afford them outright. The hypothetical trade for Leonard would theoretically require one of Ball or Ingram to make it happen.
That said, it does not appear that the Spurs will trade Leonard to LA. So without that, Ingram isn't involved in any discussions that the public knows about.
Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
06-20-2018, 09:31 AM
Most specifically any possible trade for Leonard. James and George are free agents and the Lakers can afford them outright. The hypothetical trade for Leonard would theoretically require one of Ball or Ingram to make it happen.
That said, it does not appear that the Spurs will trade Leonard to LA. So without that, Ingram isn't involved in any discussions that the public knows about.
As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm not certain that the Lakers losing all their current players to get those three is a net win for Lebron over this year's squad.
As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm not certain that the Lakers losing all their current players to get those three is a net win for Lebron over this year's squad.
They wouldn't have to lose all of their current players. Just one of the two promising young guys. But I'd say that a team of LeBron, George, Leonard, Tatum, Hart, a mid-level exception free agent (say, Nerlens Noel?), two rookies, and veteran's minimum guys chasing rings would almost certainly be better than this year's Cavs team. Would it be enough to win a title? Probably not. But it would be a better squad than the Cavs.
They wouldn't have to lose all of their current players. Just one of the two promising young guys. But I'd say that a team of LeBron, George, Leonard, Tatum, Hart, a mid-level exception free agent (say, Nerlens Noel?), two rookies, and veteran's minimum guys chasing rings would almost certainly be better than this year's Cavs team. Would it be enough to win a title? Probably not. But it would be a better squad than the Cavs.
So, this might not be a super popular opinion, but I think a LeBron led Lakers squad actually could win the title. Things would need to fall a certain way, but When you have 3 top 15 players, and 2 of the top 5, you're good enough to at least compete with the Warriors.
I think the Lakers trade that would enable this is Ingram, Ball, and Deng, and draft picks for Kawhi. They sign George and LeBron in free agency, and lose KCP/Lopez/IT due to expiring contracts. Hopefully resign Randle, but it's not a must. Not sure they could afford him after signing the big 3. They definitely won't be able to afford Isaiah Thomas, who will ask for a way more than he's worth.
So before they sign any other free agents, the lineup we have right now is LeBron, Kawhi, George, Kuzma, and Hart. That's a scary good defensive lineup. Kawhi and George are top 5 defensive players in the league. LeBron can still get it done on defense when he does actually try. He also woudn't need to expend nearly as much energy on offense as he did with the Cavs, so he might actually be more active defensively with this squad. Hart is pretty good defending the perimeter, too. I would say that team surpasses the Rockets easily as the biggest challenger to the Warriors, even before other moves, like signing Nerlens Noel and possibly minimum contract veterans (which will surely happen if LeBron is there). They will obviously need a center, because Kuzma won't be getting it done as a 5.
Comparing that team to the Cavs is a joke. This team's defense would light years ahead of the 2017-18 Cavs. They would have 2 of the best 4 players in a series against the Warriors, and 3 of the best 7. So I think it would absolutely be competitive. There's a good chance they could have home court advantage, as well, since those guys have got to be way hungrier than the Warriors at this point.
However, we will obviously need to see how everything shakes out. I like that hypothetical team, though.
JasonEvans
06-20-2018, 10:26 AM
... I'd say that a team of LeBron, George, Leonard, Tatum, Hart, a mid-level exception free agent (say, Nerlens Noel?), two rookies, and veteran's minimum guys chasing rings would almost certainly be better than this year's Cavs team.
Hang on... how do the Lakers get both Leonard and Tatum? Those two with Lebron and PG13 would be a major favorite to win it all, I think.
Hang on... how do the Lakers get both Leonard and Tatum? Those two with Lebron and PG13 would be a major favorite to win it all, I think.
Typo. I meant Ingram.
duke79
06-20-2018, 10:45 AM
Interesting story on proposed changes to "G" league (I had no idea that the "G" stands for "Gatorade"??)
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-20/the-nba-s-minor-league-could-soon-transform-pro-basketball
Billy Dat
06-20-2018, 10:55 AM
After loading up on wings in the DBR mock draft, I managed to swing a little deal this AM...sending Timofey Mozgov and his "untradeable" $15MM-$16MM per through 2020 to Charlotte for Dwight Howard who is entering the final year of his contract at $23MM.
@BobbyMarks42
With the Dwight Howard trade, only Allen Crabbe will have a guaranteed contract for the Nets in 2019-20. The Nets could potentially have up to $60M+ in room next summer but will be contingent on the restricted free agency of D'Angelo Russell and Rondae Hollis-Jefferson.
Ok, so maybe Sean Marks and Trajan had something to do with the deal.
The Nets turnaround has been hard to notice unless you are paying close attention because so much of it has been rebuilding their assets and cap space. Since they hired Marks and Atkinson, they have seriously been testing my life-long Knicks loyalty. I am impressed.
As for Charlotte, it sounds like Dwight was such a cancer that they felt they had to make this move.
Matches
06-20-2018, 11:11 AM
As for Charlotte, it sounds like Dwight was such a cancer that they felt they had to make this move.
The Hornets were trying to get under the luxury tax for next season. This accomplishes that.
They're still just kicking bad contracts down the road though. The Hornets are in cap hell - the only tradeable asset they have is Walker who is a FA after next season, and they're loaded with overpaid stiffs. If they needed to get under the tax I understand, but I'd really rather they just let some of these bad deals play out rather than taking on longer obligations.
Acymetric
06-20-2018, 11:15 AM
The Hornets were trying to get under the luxury tax for next season. This accomplishes that.
They're still just kicking bad contracts down the road though. The Hornets are in cap hell - the only tradeable asset they have is Walker who is a FA after next season, and they're loaded with overpaid stiffs. If they needed to get under the tax I understand, but I'd really rather they just let some of these bad deals play out rather than taking on longer obligations.
Supposedly they have more moves to make (speculation is trading Kemba). Worth noting that this also got Charlotte a trade exception and a couple 2nd rounders to sweeten other potential deals. I'm still not sure this move makes sense (other than getting under the tax), but it is also worth noting that apparently the players hated Dwight.
fraggler
06-20-2018, 11:16 AM
The Hornets were trying to get under the luxury tax for next season. This accomplishes that.
They're still just kicking bad contracts down the road though. The Hornets are in cap hell - the only tradeable asset they have is Walker who is a FA after next season, and they're loaded with overpaid stiffs. If they needed to get under the tax I understand, but I'd really rather they just let some of these bad deals play out rather than taking on longer obligations.
Kaminsky finally is getting his chance to blossom.
JasonEvans
06-20-2018, 11:16 AM
Interesting story on proposed changes to "G" league (I had no idea that the "G" stands for "Gatorade"??)
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-20/the-nba-s-minor-league-could-soon-transform-pro-basketball
Why do you think they used a 3 year old image from a Hawks Blazers game for the really cool illustration to go with that article? The image shows DeMarre Carroll, who hasn't been with the Hawks since 2015.
https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i26FbmNQdehQ/v0/1800x-1.jpg
Acymetric
06-20-2018, 11:20 AM
Kaminsky finally is getting his chance to blossom.
Ugh...please get him and Zeller off of that team. Really it would be nice to just get rid of everyone on the team and start over, especially since we won't be keeping Walker, but that is wishful thinking.
Matches
06-20-2018, 11:21 AM
Supposedly they have more moves to make (speculation is trading Kemba).
I'll be shocked in Kemba is still on the team at the end of next season. I expect a trade by the deadline at the latest.
That trade won't make the team better, though. It'll get worse. Trading Howard for Mosgov makes the team worse too. But the Hornets can't really full-on tank, because they have a not-good but not-garbage roster otherwise, except it's full of guys who are way overpaid and thus impossible to trade. Also they're still way over the cap and will be even if they trade Kemba.
It's a total mess IMO.
FerryFor50
06-20-2018, 11:25 AM
I'll be shocked in Kemba is still on the team at the end of next season. I expect a trade by the deadline at the latest.
That trade won't make the team better, though. It'll get worse. Trading Howard for Mosgov makes the team worse too. But the Hornets can't really full-on tank, because they have a not-good but not-garbage roster otherwise, except it's full of guys who are way overpaid and thus impossible to trade. Also they're still way over the cap and will be even if they trade Kemba.
It's a total mess IMO.
I'll never understand how Mozgov got such a huge contract after showing nearly nothing in his career. There were plenty of other crappy 7 footers you could have thrown less money at.
And if I'm Kemba. I'm demanding to be traded from that dumpster fire.
devildeac
06-20-2018, 11:27 AM
Interesting story on proposed changes to "G" league (I had no idea that the "G" stands for "Gatorade"??)
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-20/the-nba-s-minor-league-could-soon-transform-pro-basketball
That's because the "G" is silent.
arnie
06-20-2018, 12:04 PM
I'll be shocked in Kemba is still on the team at the end of next season. I expect a trade by the deadline at the latest.
That trade won't make the team better, though. It'll get worse. Trading Howard for Mosgov makes the team worse too. But the Hornets can't really full-on tank, because they have a not-good but not-garbage roster otherwise, except it's full of guys who are way overpaid and thus impossible to trade. Also they're still way over the cap and will be even if they trade Kemba.
It's a total mess IMO.
Hornets/Bobcats have been a disaster from the time Jordan got involved. He’s among the 3 worst owners in US sports history☹️. IMO he’s comparable to Sterling and current Redskin owner who’s name I refuse to type.
As long as Jordan is making decisions the franchise is doomed. He might as well only draft or trade for ex Heels; that would at least ensure favorable pub from Charlotte journalists.
JasonEvans
06-20-2018, 01:08 PM
I'll never understand how Mozgov got such a huge contract after showing nearly nothing in his career. There were plenty of other crappy 7 footers you could have thrown less money at.
On the verge of turning 30, after 6 years in the league, a player who had never been a double-digit scorer or averaged more than 25 minutes per game signed a 4-year, $64 million contract. This signing did not happen in the old NBA, back before we realized that back-to-the-basket big men who cannot shoot and do not protect the rim are worthless; it happened in the summer of 2016. I can't even begin to understand what the Lakers were thinking. Mozgov's deal almost makes Miles Plumlee look like a wise investment.
JNort
06-20-2018, 03:11 PM
My hope now that the Hornets traded Dwight is that we fully embrace a tank session. Trade Kemba and Batum to the Cavs for their 1st and whatever bad contracts they wanna dump (JR, TT, Clarkson and whomever). Draft Sexton and one of Porter/Bamba/Mikal Bridges then play for another high lottery pick next season. Give more pt to Monk so we can see what we actually got (imo a bad dribbling version of Jamal Crawford)
nmduke2001
06-20-2018, 04:13 PM
After loading up on wings in the DBR mock draft, I managed to swing a little deal this AM...sending Timofey Mozgov and his "untradeable" $15MM-$16MM per through 2020 to Charlotte for Dwight Howard who is entering the final year of his contract at $23MM.
@BobbyMarks42
With the Dwight Howard trade, only Allen Crabbe will have a guaranteed contract for the Nets in 2019-20. The Nets could potentially have up to $60M+ in room next summer but will be contingent on the restricted free agency of D'Angelo Russell and Rondae Hollis-Jefferson.
Ok, so maybe Sean Marks and Trajan had something to do with the deal.
The Nets turnaround has been hard to notice unless you are paying close attention because so much of it has been rebuilding their assets and cap space. Since they hired Marks and Atkinson, they have seriously been testing my life-long Knicks loyalty. I am impressed.
As for Charlotte, it sounds like Dwight was such a cancer that they felt they had to make this move.
Having Dwight on the team probably is more bad news for Jahlil.
English
06-20-2018, 04:24 PM
On the verge of turning 30, after 6 years in the league, a player who had never been a double-digit scorer or averaged more than 25 minutes per game signed a 4-year, $64 million contract. This signing did not happen in the old NBA, back before we realized that back-to-the-basket big men who cannot shoot and do not protect the rim are worthless; it happened in the summer of 2016. I can't even begin to understand what the Lakers were thinking. Mozgov's deal almost makes Miles Plumlee look like a wise investment.
Hey, speaking of, Dwight has been traded in the last 12 months for Miles Plumlee and Timofey Mozgov, respectively. If you accidentally included those guys in same post, on the *heels* of the Dwight trade this afternoon, way to go. That's something, I suppose.
Truth&Justise
06-20-2018, 05:03 PM
Having Dwight on the team probably is more bad news for Jahlil.
Jahlil is a restricted free agent, right?
I'm guessing the Nets let him walk if he can find a deal with another team. Wishing him luck.
FerryFor50
06-20-2018, 05:15 PM
My hope now that the Hornets traded Dwight is that we fully embrace a tank session. Trade Kemba and Batum to the Cavs for their 1st and whatever bad contracts they wanna dump (JR, TT, Clarkson and whomever). Draft Sexton and one of Porter/Bamba/Mikal Bridges then play for another high lottery pick next season. Give more pt to Monk so we can see what we actually got (imo a bad dribbling version of Jamal Crawford)
Why would the Cavs take that trade? Kemba and Batum likely wouldn't be enough to keep Lebron in town. So they'd get an aging, injury-prone, creaky Batum and a borderline all-star that is nearing 30 for a first rounder that could be a building block while they re-tool. Not sure that makes a ton of sense, since the Cavs will either want to get a superstar or two to keep Lebron around or blow it all up if he leaves.
FerryFor50
06-20-2018, 05:17 PM
Hey, speaking of, Dwight has been traded in the last 12 months for Miles Plumlee and Timofey Mozgov, respectively. If you accidentally included those guys in same post, on the *heels* of the Dwight trade this afternoon, way to go. That's something, I suppose.
This is another thing I don't get.
Is Dwight a headache at times? Sure.
Is he limited in what he can do and in the twilight of his career? Sure.
But he still averaged 16.6ppg, 12.5 rpg and 1.6 bpg. He's still a legit NBA center that can help a contending team. AND HE HAD AN EXPIRING CONTRACT!!! Why trade him for virtually NOTHING? Mozgov doesn't even get them immediate cap relief!
FerryFor50
06-20-2018, 05:20 PM
On the verge of turning 30, after 6 years in the league, a player who had never been a double-digit scorer or averaged more than 25 minutes per game signed a 4-year, $64 million contract. This signing did not happen in the old NBA, back before we realized that back-to-the-basket big men who cannot shoot and do not protect the rim are worthless; it happened in the summer of 2016. I can't even begin to understand what the Lakers were thinking. Mozgov's deal almost makes Miles Plumlee look like a wise investment.
Oh, here's why:
http://lastwordonprobasketball.com/2018/06/20/dwight-howard-traded-to-brooklyn-nets/
This trade also reunites Timofey Mozgov with general manager Mitch Kupchak from their days in Los Angeles. Kupchak actually signed Mozgov to his current four-year, $64 million contract during the summer of 2016.
Is this Kupchak trying to mask his previous failure in the original bad contract that helped get him fired to prove it wasn't THAT bad?
If I'm a Hornets fan, I'm looking for new teams as fast as Kemba should be.
English
06-20-2018, 05:26 PM
This is another thing I don't get.
Is Dwight a headache at times? Sure.
Is he limited in what he can do and in the twilight of his career? Sure.
But he still averaged 16.6ppg, 12.5 rpg and 1.6 bpg. He's still a legit NBA center that can help a contending team. AND HE HAD AN EXPIRING CONTRACT!!! Why trade him for virtually NOTHING? Mozgov doesn't even get them immediate cap relief!
I've read several articles on the subject this afternoon, and as best I can tell, nobody knows why the Buzz would do this, except the EXTREMELY short-term benefit of not paying the luxury tax. And, MY GOD, the Hornets are flirting with the luxury tax. Let that sink in. It's kicking the can (briefly) down the road on some overpaid contracts. It's cringe-worthy.
Oh, that and the possibility that Kupchak has a crush on Timofey.
superdave
06-20-2018, 05:51 PM
Having Dwight on the team probably is more bad news for Jahlil.
I wonder if Okafor wants it bad enough. From 30,000 feet, it does not seem he does.
kshepinthehouse
06-20-2018, 06:22 PM
This is another thing I don't get.
Is Dwight a headache at times? Sure.
Is he limited in what he can do and in the twilight of his career? Sure.
But he still averaged 16.6ppg, 12.5 rpg and 1.6 bpg. He's still a legit NBA center that can help a contending team. AND HE HAD AN EXPIRING CONTRACT!!! Why trade him for virtually NOTHING? Mozgov doesn't even get them immediate cap relief!
Contending teams don’t use centers like him anymore. You need a big man that can switch on defense and shoot a little.
FerryFor50
06-20-2018, 07:00 PM
Contending teams don’t use centers like him anymore. You need a big man that can switch on defense and shoot a little.
Disagree. Cavs contended and had Tristan Thompson at center. Howard can switch on D decently enough and rebounds/blocks shots better than Thompson.
Houston contended with Clint Capela and were a Chris Paul injury away from beating GSW. Clips were contenders for awhile with DeAndre Jordan.
kshepinthehouse
06-20-2018, 07:11 PM
Disagree. Cavs contended and had Tristan Thompson at center. Howard can switch on D decently enough and rebounds/blocks shots better than Thompson.
Houston contended with Clint Capela and were a Chris Paul injury away from beating GSW. Clips were contenders for awhile with DeAndre Jordan.
Tristan and Capela are pretty good when they switch. Tristan played pretty good d in Curry when switched in the pick and roll.
Seems like it’s been a long time since Howard played for a contender.
...
Seems like it’s been a long time since Howard played for a contender.
Chicken v Egg.
JasonEvans
06-20-2018, 08:57 PM
Jahlil is a restricted free agent, right?
I'm guessing the Nets let him walk if he can find a deal with another team. Wishing him luck.
Philly declined the option on Jah, which means the contract that went to the Nets was also one of a declined option. I believe that means Jah is not a restricted free agent. If someone offers him more than the Nets are allowed to pay him, the Nets have no choice but to let him walk. They have no claim to him at all.
That said, the limit on what the Nets can pay him is the $6.3 mil that was equal to the option that Philly chose not to pick up. There is no one who will give Jah anywhere close to that kind of money. He will be lucky to get even $3 or $4 mil from someone. It is far more likely that he will get offered a vet minimum deal of less than $2 million. Jah is, I suspect, just hoping to find a situation where he can get consistent minutes and a chance to show he can be a productive NBA player. If he plays well, he could be in line for a much bigger deal in the summer of 2019.
As we all know, the NBA has changed in some fairly dramatic ways. Jah's skill set of being a back-to-the-basket scorer just is not valued any more. I actually think his smartest move might be to go to Europe, where they still use post players. He could have a nice season or two over there and then try to come back. Just a thought...
-Jason "I would love for him to succeed... but I'm just not sure he is built for the current league" Evans
kshepinthehouse
06-20-2018, 10:05 PM
Philly declined the option on Jah, which means the contract that went to the Nets was also one of a declined option. I believe that means Jah is not a restricted free agent. If someone offers him more than the Nets are allowed to pay him, the Nets have no choice but to let him walk. They have no claim to him at all.
That said, the limit on what the Nets can pay him is the $6.3 mil that was equal to the option that Philly chose not to pick up. There is no one who will give Jah anywhere close to that kind of money. He will be lucky to get even $3 or $4 mil from someone. It is far more likely that he will get offered a vet minimum deal of less than $2 million. Jah is, I suspect, just hoping to find a situation where he can get consistent minutes and a chance to show he can be a productive NBA player. If he plays well, he could be in line for a much bigger deal in the summer of 2019.
As we all know, the NBA has changed in some fairly dramatic ways. Jah's skill set of being a back-to-the-basket scorer just is not valued any more. I actually think his smartest move might be to go to Europe, where they still use post players. He could have a nice season or two over there and then try to come back. Just a thought...
-Jason "I would love for him to succeed... but I'm just not sure he is built for the current league" Evans
Yes I wouldn’t be surprised to see him out of the league in the next year or 2
FerryFor50
06-20-2018, 10:20 PM
Philly declined the option on Jah, which means the contract that went to the Nets was also one of a declined option. I believe that means Jah is not a restricted free agent. If someone offers him more than the Nets are allowed to pay him, the Nets have no choice but to let him walk. They have no claim to him at all.
That said, the limit on what the Nets can pay him is the $6.3 mil that was equal to the option that Philly chose not to pick up. There is no one who will give Jah anywhere close to that kind of money. He will be lucky to get even $3 or $4 mil from someone. It is far more likely that he will get offered a vet minimum deal of less than $2 million. Jah is, I suspect, just hoping to find a situation where he can get consistent minutes and a chance to show he can be a productive NBA player. If he plays well, he could be in line for a much bigger deal in the summer of 2019.
As we all know, the NBA has changed in some fairly dramatic ways. Jah's skill set of being a back-to-the-basket scorer just is not valued any more. I actually think his smartest move might be to go to Europe, where they still use post players. He could have a nice season or two over there and then try to come back. Just a thought...
-Jason "I would love for him to succeed... but I'm just not sure he is built for the current league" Evans
I think his bigger issue is that he’s a 6’11” center that doesn’t rebound well (12.4% total career rebound percentage), doesn’t protect the rim well (3.2% career block percentage) and has had some questions about his effort.
By contrast, Dwight Howard (for currency purposes) was pulling down 22.2% of all available rebounds and blocking 4.4% of all shots when he was on the floor while still scoring in his 14th season. That seems more in line with what Brooklyn wants from the 5 position. Jah’s likely gone.
Jah had a pretty good rookie year (17.5ppg, 7rpg on an awful Sixers team), so we know he could compete if he finds the right home. But will he?
kshepinthehouse
06-21-2018, 08:06 AM
Below is your answer as to why the Hornets decided to trade Howard.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-dwight-howards-charlotte-teammates-just-sick-tired-act-002120459.html
FerryFor50
06-21-2018, 09:39 AM
Below is your answer as to why the Hornets decided to trade Howard.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-dwight-howards-charlotte-teammates-just-sick-tired-act-002120459.html
Not surprised at the reason. Not even surprised he got traded.
Surprised all Charlotte could get was a guy who can’t even spell Timothy right. 😛
devildeac
06-21-2018, 09:50 AM
Not surprised at the reason. Not even surprised he got traded.
Surprised all Charlotte could get was a guy who can’t even spell Timothy right. ��
Ceiling meet roof.
JasonEvans
06-21-2018, 02:05 PM
So, how bad is Dwight Howard... within hours of trading for him, the Nets have entered into negotiations to buy out the rest of his contract. Whew... I wonder what the market will be like for him as a free agent? Will folks even want to pay him the vet minimum?
FerryFor50
06-21-2018, 02:14 PM
So, how bad is Dwight Howard... within hours of trading for him, the Nets have entered into negotiations to buy out the rest of his contract. Whew... I wonder what the market will be like for him as a free agent? Will folks even want to pay him the vet minimum?
I think plenty of teams would. Just likely not any of the teams he already burned bridges with.
IrishDevil
06-21-2018, 02:14 PM
At least Jah can't be saddled with the label, "The Nets want him gone so badly, they prefer Dwight Howard" anymore, right?
So he's got that going for him, which is nice.
JasonEvans
06-21-2018, 02:45 PM
I think plenty of teams would. Just likely not any of the teams he already burned bridges with.
Yeah, at a cheap price, he is valuable (though the talk that his Hawks and Hornet teammates hated him has got to weigh on his value).
If he could just focus on offensive rebounding, protecting the rim, and dunking I could see him fitting in pretty nicely on whatever team gets Lebron. He could be a nice upgrade on Tristan Thompson.
Yeah, at a cheap price, he is valuable (though the talk that his Hawks and Hornet teammates hated him has got to weigh on his value).
If he could just focus on offensive rebounding, protecting the rim, and dunking I could see him fitting in pretty nicely on whatever team gets Lebron. He could be a nice upgrade on Tristan Thompson.
Yeah, if, for example, the Lakers add George and James in free agency, I could see Howard being a really effective vet minimum guy there. He's absolutely a better version of what a guy like Thompson provides. And with Ingram, George, and James (not to mention Kuzma, Ball, and Hart if the Lakers don't trade), there'd be no pressure on Howard to do anything but get boards, get blocks, and catch lobs.
Truth&Justise
06-21-2018, 03:08 PM
Yeah, if, for example, the Lakers add George and James in free agency, I could see Howard being a really effective vet minimum guy there. He's absolutely a better version of what a guy like Thompson provides. And with Ingram, George, and James (not to mention Kuzma, Ball, and Hart if the Lakers don't trade), there'd be no pressure on Howard to do anything but get boards, get blocks, and catch lobs.
Hasn't the problem for the last few years been that Howard does not want that role? He'd be perfect for it, but instead he demands post touches, pouts, and ignores the plays called by the coach. He'll be engaged for a stretch and then disappear for the next. And also the Lakers might be one of those teams he's burned bridges wtih.
If he's bought out I think contending teams will stay away, but maybe teams desperate to make the playoffs could sign up.
So a team desperate to make the playoffs and no stranger to dysfunction...yup, I could see him on the Knicks.
Matches
06-21-2018, 03:34 PM
So, how bad is Dwight Howard... within hours of trading for him, the Nets have entered into negotiations to buy out the rest of his contract. Whew... I wonder what the market will be like for him as a free agent? Will folks even want to pay him the vet minimum?
Wish the Hornets would have just bought him out instead of absorbing Mosgov's salary to get rid of him.
FerryFor50
06-21-2018, 04:19 PM
Hasn't the problem for the last few years been that Howard does not want that role? He'd be perfect for it, but instead he demands post touches, pouts, and ignores the plays called by the coach. He'll be engaged for a stretch and then disappear for the next. And also the Lakers might be one of those teams he's burned bridges wtih.
If he's bought out I think contending teams will stay away, but maybe teams desperate to make the playoffs could sign up.
So a team desperate to make the playoffs and no stranger to dysfunction...yup, I could see him on the Knicks.
In the past, he's done that. I didn't see him do that too much this season.
But then again, I don't watch a ton of Hornets games, because I value my time.
In the past, he's done that. I didn't see him do that too much this season.
But then again, I don't watch a ton of Hornets games, because I value my time.
There has also been the “I am the best player on the team” issue at most stops (LA excluded; he was just a bad fit for the triangle). If he joined LeBron, that would decidedly cease to be the case. Presumably if he was joining LeBron, he would be ring chasing and thus more willing to submit to a lesser role.
luvdahops
06-21-2018, 04:51 PM
There has also been the “I am the best player on the team” issue at most stops (LA excluded; he was just a bad fit for the triangle). If he joined LeBron, that would decidedly cease to be the case. Presumably if he was joining LeBron, he would be ring chasing and thus more willing to submit to a lesser role.
Wasn't that supposed to be the setup in Houston with Harden? That didn't work out so well IIRC.
Wasn't that supposed to be the setup in Houston with Harden? That didn't work out so well IIRC.
That was established star Howard and just starting to establish himself Harden. Not ring-chasing vet Howard joining under LeBron and George. Look, I think skepticism is reasonable. But I think it is also reasonable to see a scenario where he is ready to defer.
luvdahops
06-21-2018, 05:14 PM
That was established star Howard and just starting to establish himself Harden. Not ring-chasing vet Howard joining under LeBron and George. Look, I think skepticism is reasonable. But I think it is also reasonable to see a scenario where he is ready to defer.
No doubt deferring to Lebron is a different ask than deferring to a 23 YO Harden. But I do think it was clear when Howard signed with Houston that the Beard - coming off a season in which he averaged 26, 5 and 6 - was going to be the Alpha/Batman. And Howard was definitely not willing to defer, at least not to the satisfaction of anyone in the Rockets organization. It is certainly reasonable to believe he is now ready and willing to defer, under the right circumstances. But put me in the skeptical camp.
drummerdevil
06-21-2018, 06:27 PM
So if Dwight is going for all 30 - does this count as having been with the Nets?
jimsumner
06-21-2018, 06:30 PM
Howard has always produced statistically.
It's the plays-well-with-others-part of the equation where he tends to fall short.
drummerdevil
06-21-2018, 06:47 PM
Over/Under 1.5 all star or higher caliber players get traded tonight - how would y'all bet?
Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
06-21-2018, 06:48 PM
Over/Under 1.5 all star or higher caliber players get traded tonight - how would y'all bet?
Under. I am frequently underwhelmed by the caliber of deals on draft day.
Troublemaker
06-24-2018, 07:22 AM
I'll never understand how Mozgov got such a huge contract after showing nearly nothing in his career. There were plenty of other crappy 7 footers you could have thrown less money at.
And if I'm Kemba. I'm demanding to be traded from that dumpster fire.
Under Mitch Kupchak (secretly UNC's answer to Duke's Billy King in the bad NBA GM department -- sorry Billy, loved your D), the Lakers' lack of investment in analytics cost them. You could almost see how, lacking analytics, the hamster wheel in Kupchak's mind could churn in a way to fall in love with Mozgov. Afterall, there had a been a recent Cavs playoff run where Mozgov was the poster boy for Verticality (arms straight up). TNT and ESPN kept cutting away to replays of Mozgov performing rock-solid verticality rim protection, which is the one skill he's good at. If Kupchak had invested in analytics, his team might've told him that outside of playing defense right around the rim and jumping up with his arms straight up, Mozgov is pretty bad at every other facet of baketball.
In the Kawhi Leonard soap opera, RC Buford said the vanilla, politically correct polite things about how their first option was to keep Kawhi with the team.
Then ex-Spur Bruce Bowen rips Kawhi on Sirius, essentially telling him to "grow a pair and speak up".
Kawhi has never said a word - why? (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23876933/bruce-bowen-rips-kawhi-leonard-san-antonio-spurs-not-one-said-anything)
The mock Spurs GM is well pleased.
Billy Dat
06-25-2018, 04:29 PM
Willie Cauley Stein says Harry will be rookie of the year
https://youtu.be/zSkviWwBEMs
MartyClark
06-25-2018, 04:50 PM
Willie Cauley Stein says Harry will be rookie of the year
https://youtu.be/zSkviWwBEMs
It would be really sweet to see Harry competing for this award against Marvin and Wendell.
Harry seemed like a good kid. I hope he has recovered and will shine this year.
elvis14
06-25-2018, 10:53 PM
Willie Cauley Stein says Harry will be rookie of the year
https://youtu.be/zSkviWwBEMs
I would love for that to happen. Someone posted a video a few months ago of a healthy Harry working out...wow did he look good. I suspect that Harry will be one of the great 'what if' stories for Duke fans (see Irving, Kyrie).
JasonEvans
06-26-2018, 08:53 AM
Harden wins MVP, no surprise. He deserved it.
But I think it is worth noting right now that Lebron has not won the MVP award in 6 years. The last time Bronie won MVP, the Knicks were one of the best teams in the NBA (won 54 games, 2nd best record in the East). I get that voters want to find something new, but it is sorta absurd that Lebron has not won the MVP at all in the past 5 seasons even though we would all agree he was the best player in the game in each of those seasons.
Lebron only has 4 MVP awards in his career. That ties him with Wilt for the 4th most of all time. Jordan and Russell have 5 and Kareem has 6 MVP awards.
-Jason "meanwhile, Ben Simmons won ROY, Oladipo was Most Improved, Gobert was Defensive POY, and fired Dwayne Casey was COY" Evans
elvis14
06-26-2018, 08:56 AM
Harden wins MVP, no surprise. He deserved it.
But I think it is worth noting right now that Lebron has not won the MVP award in 6 years. The last time Bronie won MVP, the Knicks were one of the best teams in the NBA (won 54 games, 2nd best record in the East). I get that voters want to find something new, but it is sorta absurd that Lebron has not won the MVP at all in the past 5 seasons even though we would all agree he was the best player in the game in each of those seasons.
Lebron only has 4 MVP awards in his career. That ties him with Wilt for the 4th most of all time. Jordan and Russell have 5 and Kareem has 6 MVP awards.
-Jason "meanwhile, Ben Simmons won ROY, Oladipo was Most Improved, Gobert was Defensive POY, and fired Dwayne Casey was COY" Evans
Ironic that with Lebron's total you mention Wilt, Jordan, Russell and Kareem since all of those guys are on the list of 'greatest ever' in front of Lebron.
<laughs, ducks>
devildeac
06-26-2018, 09:27 AM
Ironic that with Lebron's total you mention Wilt, Jordan, Russell and Kareem since all of those guys are on the list of 'greatest ever' in front of Lebron.
<laughs, ducks>
Kinda like this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press_College_Basketball_Coach_of_the_Y ear
One name is conspicuous by its absence.
(Love ya, man. ;))
Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
06-26-2018, 10:06 AM
Kinda like this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press_College_Basketball_Coach_of_the_Y ear
One name is conspicuous by its absence.
(Love ya, man. ;))
Matt D'oh? Clearly deserving.
devildeac
06-26-2018, 10:14 AM
Matt D'oh? Clearly deserving.
Absolutely. My favorite cheaters' coach. Ever. Shoulda been given a lifetime contract after the 2001-02 MBB season.
;)
NSDukeFan
06-26-2018, 10:18 AM
Harden wins MVP, no surprise. He deserved it.
But I think it is worth noting right now that Lebron has not won the MVP award in 6 years. The last time Bronie won MVP, the Knicks were one of the best teams in the NBA (won 54 games, 2nd best record in the East). I get that voters want to find something new, but it is sorta absurd that Lebron has not won the MVP at all in the past 5 seasons even though we would all agree he was the best player in the game in each of those seasons.
Lebron only has 4 MVP awards in his career. That ties him with Wilt for the 4th most of all time. Jordan and Russell have 5 and Kareem has 6 MVP awards.
-Jason "meanwhile, Ben Simmons won ROY, Oladipo was Most Improved, Gobert was Defensive POY, and fired Dwayne Casey was COY" Evans
You have to go based on regular season performance, though. LeBron is the best player in the world right now, as he showed in the playoffs, but he was not the best in the regular season.
Indoor66
06-26-2018, 10:56 AM
Absolutely. My favorite cheaters' coach. Ever. Shoulda been given a lifetime contract after the 2001-02 MBB season.
;)
Nah. They declared him dead as well.
JasonEvans
06-26-2018, 11:13 AM
Kinda like this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press_College_Basketball_Coach_of_the_Y ear
One name is conspicuous by its absence.
Late 90s, early 2000s the AP COY went on an amazing run
1999—Cliff Ellis, Auburn - fired by Auburn in 2004
2000—Larry Eustachy, Iowa State - forced to resign after a scandal in 2003
2001—Matt Doherty, North Carolina - fired by UNC in 2003
2002—Ben Howland, Pittsburgh - promoted up the coaching tree to UCLA
2003—Tubby Smith, Kentucky - forced out by Kentucky in 2007
2004—Phil Martelli, Saint Joseph’s - still coaching
2005—Bruce Weber, Illinois - fired by Illinois in 2012
-Jason "of course, nothing tops picking Keno Davis as COY in his very first year as a head coach in 2008... how does that pick look in retrospect?" Evans
DangerDevil
06-26-2018, 07:59 PM
The holidays might be awkward for the Rivers.
Per Woj:
“The LA Clippers ended the first-father-son coach-player relationship in NBA history on Tuesday, trading guard Austin Rivers to the Washington Wizards for center Marcin Gortat, league sources said.”
Doc is pretty much just the coach now in LA. Jerry West has taken over management
arnie
06-26-2018, 08:56 PM
Kinda like this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Press_College_Basketball_Coach_of_the_Y ear
One name is conspicuous by its absence.
(Love ya, man. ;))
Interesting that neither K nor Dean ever won the AP award. K’s best shot was 1986 but they gave it to Eddie Sutton at Ktucky.
JNort
06-26-2018, 09:46 PM
The holidays might be awkward for the Rivers.
Per Woj:
“The LA Clippers ended the first-father-son coach-player relationship in NBA history on Tuesday, trading guard Austin Rivers to the Washington Wizards for center Marcin Gortat, league sources said.”
Makes sense for the Wizards since it will give them scoring off the bench at either the 1 or 2 spot. However I don't understand this for the Clippers. Why not trade him for a sf?
kshepinthehouse
06-26-2018, 09:52 PM
Makes sense for the Wizards since it will give them scoring off the bench at either the 1 or 2 spot. However I don't understand this for the Clippers. Why not trade him for a sf?
Cuz they are planning on DeAndre Jordan leaving?
devildeac
06-26-2018, 10:18 PM
Interesting that neither K nor Dean ever won the AP award. K’s best shot was 1986 but they gave it to Eddie Sutton at Ktucky.
Wait, I thought dean's myth invented that, too. :rolleyes:
JNort
06-27-2018, 12:02 AM
Cuz they are planning on DeAndre Jordan leaving?
Gortat and Jordan both have 1 year left, granted DJs is an option so he could leave but you still traded for a rental overpaid big who can't play in today's NBA. Why not trade for a pick, a wing, or a younger cheaper center who probably isn't as good right now.
Truth&Justise
06-27-2018, 11:15 AM
The holidays might be awkward for the Rivers.
Per Woj:
“The LA Clippers ended the first-father-son coach-player relationship in NBA history on Tuesday, trading guard Austin Rivers to the Washington Wizards for center Marcin Gortat, league sources said.”
As one of the few Wizards fans around here, I really like this trade.
Gortat had some great seasons for the Wizards, and I appreciate the hard (moving) screens he set to free up Wall and Beal, but his decline has been evident. If you can't shoot from the outside and aren't a great free throw shooter you have to make up for it by finishing well inside, and he just wasn't doing that anymore. The Wizards best crunch-time lineups all had Otto Porter at PF and either Markieff Morris or Mike Scott at center. From a pure basketball standpoint would rather have gotten rid of Ian Mahinmi (worse player, worse contract), but not surprising that no one wants to do that.
It was no secret that the team wanted to trade Gortat for chemistry reasons, so I'm surprised they were able to get a good return. Rivers has improved every season in the NBA. He now shoots a decent clip from three, plays good defense, and proved his toughness two years ago when he nearly led the Clips to a playoff victory while bloody and battered. His game is a little too iso-heavy for the modern NBA, but he's the best scorer/creator the Wizards have had on the bench for a while. He has a better chance to crack the crunch-time lineup than Gortat would. The team still probably needs to find one more big man to start games with, but this is a great return for Gortat, and the Wiz didn't have to give up any picks or other young assets.
Plus love having a Duke guy to cheer for!
mkirsh
06-27-2018, 12:17 PM
As one of the few Wizards fans around here, I really like this trade.
Gortat had some great seasons for the Wizards, and I appreciate the hard (moving) screens he set to free up Wall and Beal, but his decline has been evident. If you can't shoot from the outside and aren't a great free throw shooter you have to make up for it by finishing well inside, and he just wasn't doing that anymore. The Wizards best crunch-time lineups all had Otto Porter at PF and either Markieff Morris or Mike Scott at center. From a pure basketball standpoint would rather have gotten rid of Ian Mahinmi (worse player, worse contract), but not surprising that no one wants to do that.
It was no secret that the team wanted to trade Gortat for chemistry reasons, so I'm surprised they were able to get a good return. Rivers has improved every season in the NBA. He now shoots a decent clip from three, plays good defense, and proved his toughness two years ago when he nearly led the Clips to a playoff victory while bloody and battered. His game is a little too iso-heavy for the modern NBA, but he's the best scorer/creator the Wizards have had on the bench for a while. He has a better chance to crack the crunch-time lineup than Gortat would. The team still probably needs to find one more big man to start games with, but this is a great return for Gortat, and the Wiz didn't have to give up any picks or other young assets.
Plus love having a Duke guy to cheer for!
As one of the other few Wiz fans here, I'm only lukewarm on this trade. I like Austin and agree with you that Gortat wasn't a great fit anymore, but the Wiz need frontcourt depth and someone to run PNR with Wall more than they needed a scorer off the bench (which I think is generally easier to find). Plus I like what Satoransky gave them off the bench last year so his role will change with the addition of Rivers. I can't see how they can start Mahinmi at C, so I guess they go small with Morris at C and Oubre at PF? Or hopefully there is another move coming - trade for another big? The pipedream is to re-unite Wall and Boogie Cousins but I don't think the Wizards have the pieces to make that happen. Maybe sign and trade and give up Sato and Oubre? I guess a starting five of Wall-Beal-Porter-Morris-Cousins with Rivers-Meeks-Scott-Mahinmi off the bench would be better than last year's squad, but I hate giving up on the only young, value contracts they have in Oubre ($2M per year with 2 left, and also someone who always plays hard and brings an "edge") and Sato ($3M per year, 2 years left) for a backup guard making $12 M per year (Rivers) and a guy coming off an Achilles injury who is going to get a max deal.
LasVegas
06-28-2018, 12:18 PM
Stephen A. said today that the king texted Durant about them BOTH going to the lakers.......interesting to say the least.
JasonEvans
06-28-2018, 01:55 PM
Stephen A. said today that the king texted Durant about them BOTH going to the lakers....interesting to say the least.
The other big report today is that the Lakers are trying to get a deal for Kwahi done ASAP, before the Friday deadline for Lebron to decide about opting in or out of his Cleveland contract. The rumor mill is that Lebron isn't all that interested in Philly.
Stephen A. said today that the king texted Durant about them BOTH going to the lakers....interesting to say the least.
You know, I was wondering how KD could possibly get even more people to hate/dislike him. This would be it.
Acymetric
06-28-2018, 02:12 PM
This is not directed at any particular post in this thread, but I am so ready for the NBA offseason to end so people can stop proposing completely insane trades that wouldn't go through in an old NBA 2K game with GameShark running. 1000 times worse than the endless deluge of minutes discussions on this board to me (and it is everywhere, not just here). It is fun to try and dream up scenarios where various trades could happen, but it has to be rooted in some kind of plausible reality.
Acymetric
06-28-2018, 02:13 PM
You know, I was wondering how KD could possibly get even more people to hate/dislike him. This would be it.
Would some of that not get directed at Durant?
Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
06-28-2018, 02:18 PM
This is not directed at any particular post in this thread, but I am so ready for the NBA offseason to end so people can stop proposing completely insane trades that wouldn't go through in an old NBA 2K game with GameShark running. 1000 times worse than the endless deluge of minutes discussions on this board to me (and it is everywhere, not just here). It is fun to try and dream up scenarios where various trades could happen, but it has to be rooted in some kind of plausible reality.
You are in for a long few weeks. It isn't just here, it's all over the media.
I say Cavs sign Lebron and trade straight up for Kemba Walker. Then they trade Kaminsky for Durant and Curry.
Acymetric
06-28-2018, 02:28 PM
You are in for a long few weeks. It isn't just here, it's all over the media.
I say Cavs sign Lebron and trade straight up for Kemba Walker. Then they trade Kaminsky for Durant and Curry.
The media (at least that I consume) isn't quite as bad, they play out a lot of unlikely scenarios, but most of them I would not deem impossible. Kemba to LA for Ball, Kuzma, and picks ain't happening ever (for example).
I also think that any Kawhi to LA talk that includes Lonzo to the Spurs is seriously misguided, I cannot imagine the Spurs taking that family on. Ingram is much more likely to be the primary trade piece. That said, I also seriously doubt that Kawhi ends up with the Lakers anyway. But at least those are viable trades on paper.
moonpie23
06-28-2018, 04:59 PM
sooooo....kawhai, paul george and lebron to the lakers? that could almost do it........
but what it chris paul came to play as well for the veteran's minimum.......now you're talking some legit threats....
any deal can be "done".......
I think Paul George and Lebron end up with the Lakers. There is no way that the Spurs are stupid enough to hand the Lakers a championship.
Furniture
06-28-2018, 11:33 PM
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/734087002?__twitter_impression=true
Gerald is ready to play ( sorry if it was posted earlier).
luburch
06-29-2018, 06:36 AM
Thad Young exercised his player option with the Pacers. (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23937384/thaddeus-young-exercises-player-option-remain-indiana-pacers)
Good news for Indy. They bring back their top six scorers from lasts season and will have ~$20mil in cap space.
budwom
06-29-2018, 06:49 AM
sooooo...kawhai, paul george and lebron to the lakers? that could almost do it....
but what it chris paul came to play as well for the veteran's minimum....now you're talking some legit threats...
any deal can be "done"....
They'd better hire a staff psychiatrist for the coach, I wouldn't envy him at all. Just let LBJ coach the team because he will anyway.
Billy Dat
06-29-2018, 10:13 AM
Gerald is ready to play again after unique hip surgery
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/06/26/nba-gerald-henderson-hip-contribute-therapeutic-year/734087002/
kshepinthehouse
06-29-2018, 10:57 AM
As expected, Lebron becomes an unrestricted free agent.
Billy Dat
06-29-2018, 11:02 AM
As expected, Lebron becomes an unrestricted free agent.
Let the games begin!
@GottliebShow
Not a surprise, but how great is our country when a dude can turn down $35m guaranteed
@WindhorstESPN
LeBron James has informed the Cavs he won’t opt into his contract. This decision is favorable to the Lakers chances, hurts the Rockets chances and the Cavs remain firmly in mix.
kshepinthehouse
06-29-2018, 12:02 PM
Let the games begin!
@GottliebShow
Not a surprise, but how great is our country when a dude can turn down $35m guaranteed
@WindhorstESPN
LeBron James has informed the Cavs he won’t opt into his contract. This decision is favorable to the Lakers chances, hurts the Rockets chances and the Cavs remain firmly in mix.
I can definitely see a scenario where things don’t work out in his favor and he comes limping back to the Cavs. But, I do think the Lakers are the better option even without George and Leonard, although I think George would follow Lebron to LA if in fact Lebron decides to go that route.
Truth&Justise
06-29-2018, 12:16 PM
I can definitely see a scenario where things don’t work out in his favor and he comes limping back to the Cavs. But, I do think the Lakers are the better option even without George and Leonard, although I think George would follow Lebron to LA if in fact Lebron decides to go that route.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but without dramatic changes I think Cleveland gives LeBron one of the best chances of winning a title in the coming year. In the West the Lakers would have to go through Houston or Golden State -- or both -- just to make the finals. Much easier going against Philly and/or Boston, young teams that are still figuring out how to win. Can't win the finals if you can't get there in the first place, and once you're there you have a puncher's chance (as we saw in Game 1 this year).
In short, it'd be a mistake to overreact to a sweep by GSW by opting for a path that is even harder.
Two other minority positions I hold: GSW is not as invulnerable as we're making them out to be (they came incredibly close to not making the finals this year! We all saw that happen, let's not forget it!), and I'd also argue that the talent level in Cleveland compares favorably to most of the other options, but we can save those arguments for another day.
jimsumner
06-29-2018, 01:58 PM
Maybe I'm in the minority, but without dramatic changes I think Cleveland gives LeBron one of the best chances of winning a title in the coming year. In the West the Lakers would have to go through Houston or Golden State -- or both -- just to make the finals. Much easier going against Philly and/or Boston, young teams that are still figuring out how to win. Can't win the finals if you can't get there in the first place, and once you're there you have a puncher's chance (as we saw in Game 1 this year).
In short, it'd be a mistake to overreact to a sweep by GSW by opting for a path that is even harder.
Two other minority positions I hold: GSW is not as invulnerable as we're making them out to be (they came incredibly close to not making the finals this year! We all saw that happen, let's not forget it!), and I'd also argue that the talent level in Cleveland compares favorably to most of the other options, but we can save those arguments for another day.
If he wants to stay in the East, wouldn't the 76ers be a better option?
Wander
06-29-2018, 02:29 PM
In short, it'd be a mistake to overreact to a sweep by GSW by opting for a path that is even harder.
Agreed. I'll also add a factor that is completely subjective... but in the GOAT debate, I think a Cavs title would "count more" for Lebron.
Truth&Justise
06-29-2018, 02:37 PM
If he wants to stay in the East, wouldn't the 76ers be a better option?
I don't think he'd fit well next to Simmons. Recall that there were fit issues with Dwyane Wade, given that both were ball-dominant scorers with then-unreliable outside shots. The Mavs exploited those issues well in 2011. And the Heat only found success when pairing those two with great shooting wings/big men (Bosh, Battier, Mike Miller) and one of the greatest shooters of all time (Ray Allen). And that's without even taking into account the fact that Wade was a much better off-ball cutter and shooter than Simmons currently is. It'd be fascinating, but ultimately I think defenses could really pack in the paint and make Simmons useless while LeBron has the ball in his hands.
Boston could present a better option, but then it would really depend on how much they have to give up to get LeBron. Could be better, but might not be.
So then they obvious answer is sign and trade to Washington for Otto Porter. Because.....please please please do that, pretty please?
kshepinthehouse
06-29-2018, 02:39 PM
Agreed. I'll also add a factor that is completely subjective... but in the GOAT debate, I think a Cavs title would "count more" for Lebron.
I disagree. Earlier a poster surmised that KD joinjng the Warriors and getting a title would hurt his legacy. A title will NEVER hurt your legacy no matter what team it’s for. I think you’re right in the short term that a Cavs title would mean more. However, over time, these individual circumstances will become murky and people will just remember the number of titles and a few small details. I think he’s going to pick the best team that gives him a shot at winning the title, regardless of how much it might count in the GOAT debate.
moonpie23
06-29-2018, 05:12 PM
look. no one is beating the warriors unless some co-op happens......not this coming year, anyway.....if things stay the same. even if kyrie AND hayward are back, it's not going to happen..
now, after next season, when the money starts to be a main factor, the dubs will have to face some changes.......but until then, none of the current lineups are going to beat them in a 7 game series...
Per Woj, DeAndre Jordan looking to move to the Mavs this summer. No more Paul, Griffin, Redick, and Pierce around to kidnap him and keep him in a Clippers uni.
pfrduke
06-29-2018, 07:29 PM
https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/2708.png
https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f699.png
https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f34c.pnghttps://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f6a4.png
JNort
06-29-2018, 07:57 PM
sooooo...kawhai, paul george and lebron to the lakers? that could almost do it....
but what it chris paul came to play as well for the veteran's minimum....now you're talking some legit threats...
any deal can be "done"....
If those 3 are healthy and on the Lakers they would sweep the Warriors. At worst they lose a single game due to being relaxed.
kshepinthehouse
06-29-2018, 07:59 PM
If those 3 are healthy and on the Lakers they would sweep the Warriors. At worst they lose a single game due to being relaxed.
Not so fast. Reports are that Lebron doesn’t want the Lakers to trade the whole team for Kawhi.
Furniture
06-29-2018, 08:35 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeNBA/status/1012797685013893120/video/1
kshepinthehouse
06-29-2018, 09:04 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeNBA/status/1012797685013893120/video/1
This may not be a popular opinion,but I think Giles would have had a season statistically similar to Bagley his lone year at Duke had he been 100 percent healthy. I even think he may have been a better prospect than Bags if healthy.
devilsince1977
06-29-2018, 09:27 PM
Harry is on the Kings Summer League roster. I will have to watch some of that. I want to see a healthy HG. There is little evidence to back this up. But, I think he is going to surprise the hoops world. Maybe not this year, but sooner than later. My blue tinted glasses may be affecting my crystal ball.
Furniture
06-30-2018, 08:33 AM
Bucks trying to keep Jabari
https://www.wtmj.com/sports/basketball/milwaukee-bucks/report-bucks-make-qualifying-offer-to-try-and-keep-jabari-parker
JasonEvans
06-30-2018, 10:21 AM
Bucks trying to keep Jabari
https://www.wtmj.com/sports/basketball/milwaukee-bucks/report-bucks-make-qualifying-offer-to-try-and-keep-jabari-parker
Well, I dunno how much this means they are trying to keep him. It merely means they will have the right to match offers on him. He is very likely to get offers higher than the qualifying offer of $4.3 mil. This merely allows the Bucks to match those offers or attempt a sign-and-trade to get something in return for him. With Kris Middleton on their roster, I'm just not sure Jabari is a great fit (though Middleton's contract is done after next season and the Bucks may want insurance in case he walks).
But, here is the real risk for Milwaukee -- it is not impossible to imagine that Jabari does not get great offers this summer. Cap space around the league is limited and Jabari is coming off of an injured season in which his play was pretty spotty. If he is healthy and plays the way he was before he got hurt, he's certainly worth $12+ mil a season. But, I really doubt he gets that kind of offer this year. He could decide to take the QO and play this year for $4.3 mil knowing he will become an unrestricted free agent after the coming season. It would make a lot of sense for him to do that. But, if he takes the $4.3 mil QO, a quirk in the CBA means that he would count... wait for it... $20.3 mil.
I don't know why, but some high draft picks carry really punitive cap hits if they accept qualifying offers. Aaron Gordon has a $7.2 mil QO that carries a $16.5 mil hit. Marcus Smart's $6 mil QO would bring a $13.6 mil hit to the Celtics. Dante Exum has a $4.3 mil option that carries a $14.9 mil cap hit. Obviously, it gets better the lower a player is in the draft. Jusuf Nurkic's QO is $4.7 mil but his cap hit is only $8,8 mil. Rodney Hood's is $3.4 with a cap hit of $7.2 mil.
Jabair is a pretty unique case of a really high draft pick with a QO that might be interesting to him and a cap hit that is huge. The way I see it, it gives Jabari more power over the Bucks. It would actually be in the team's interest to sign Jabari to a 1 year deal at $8 or $10 or even $12 mil rather than just having him take the QO.
-Jason "Jabari has one of the more interesting free agent situations -- aside from the superstars -- this summer" Evans
JasonEvans
06-30-2018, 11:08 AM
The Warriors are going to make a run at DeAndre Jordan. (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-free-agency-rumors-warriors-will-explore-chances-with-deandre-jordan-who-would-need-to-take-a-serious-pay-cut/) They can only offer him the $5.3 mil taxpayer excemption, which is about $25 mil less per season than other teams are likely to offer him, but if he decides he has earned enough in his career ($106 mil so far) then he could decide to go out with a couple rings and a lot less money in the bank. Unlikely, but not impossible to imagine.
Also, there seems to be growing belief in Cleveland that Lebron is not coming back. Supposedly, he is not really talking to the team at all, letting his agent, Rich Paul, handle all communications with the team. Apparently, Lebron decided that he could not trust the Cavs front office and management last summer. Not just for the disastrous Kyrie Irving trade, but because he was working hard to convince Jamal Crawford to come to Cleveland as a free agent but the team chose to sign Cedi Osman instead. Lebron felt Crawford's scoring punch off the bench would be much more useful. Given the way Osman performed this season, it sure seems like Lebron was right.
There is talk the Lakers are moving away from Paul George, who seems to really be thinking about returning to the Thunder, and are considering Boogie as a free agent instead. Cousins and Lebron could fit together really nicely, I think.
-Jason "what a fun time of year... no other sport has an off-season even in the same ballpark as the NBA" Evans
Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
06-30-2018, 11:10 AM
The Warriors are going to make a run at DeAndre Jordan. (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-free-agency-rumors-warriors-will-explore-chances-with-deandre-jordan-who-would-need-to-take-a-serious-pay-cut/) They can only offer him the $5.3 mil taxpayer excemption, which is about $25 mil less per season than other teams are likely to offer him, but if he decides he has earned enough in his career ($106 mil so far) then he could decide to go out with a couple rings and a lot less money in the bank. Unlikely, but not impossible to imagine.
Also, there seems to be growing belief in Cleveland that Lebron is not coming back. Supposedly, he is not really talking to the team at all, letting his agent, Rich Paul, handle all communications with the team. Apparently, Lebron decided that he could not trust the Cavs front office and management last summer. Not just for the disastrous Kyrie Irving trade, but because he was working hard to convince Jamal Crawford to come to Cleveland as a free agent but the team chose to sign Cedi Osman instead. Lebron felt Crawford's scoring punch off the bench would be much more useful. Given the way Osman performed this season, it sure seems like Lebron was right.
There is talk the Lakers are moving away from Paul George, who seems to really be thinking about returning to the Thunder, and are considering Boogie as a free agent instead. Cousins and Lebron could fit together really nicely, I think.
-Jason "what a fun time of year... no other sport has an off-season even in the same ballpark as the NBA" Evans
I thought we were still debating which team won that trade? :rolleyes:
JasonEvans
06-30-2018, 11:44 AM
Amazing info from Stephen A (https://hoopshype.com/rumor/1192351/) about the Gortat-Wall feud in Washington.
Gortat had a real big-time issue with John Wall as teammates with the Washington Wizards. Scott Brooks constantly allowing folks to switch all the time instead of manning up and forcing them to guard folks, because Scott Brooks is known for not liking confrontation, basically took heat off individual players by allowing switches to take place every second. As a result, because John Wall wasn’t considered somebody too eager to guard anybody, Gortat found himself in the precarious situations of having to guard guards – quicker, smaller players. He’s older, clearly devoid of the lateral movement that will enable him to guard guys, was lamenting the fact that he was put in bad situations by John Wall’s lack of defense, said so in a team meeting. John Wall turned around and M.F.ed him to death. From that moment forward, Gortat wanted out of Washington.
kshepinthehouse
06-30-2018, 11:44 AM
The Warriors are going to make a run at DeAndre Jordan. (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-free-agency-rumors-warriors-will-explore-chances-with-deandre-jordan-who-would-need-to-take-a-serious-pay-cut/) They can only offer him the $5.3 mil taxpayer excemption, which is about $25 mil less per season than other teams are likely to offer him, but if he decides he has earned enough in his career ($106 mil so far) then he could decide to go out with a couple rings and a lot less money in the bank. Unlikely, but not impossible to imagine.
Also, there seems to be growing belief in Cleveland that Lebron is not coming back. Supposedly, he is not really talking to the team at all, letting his agent, Rich Paul, handle all communications with the team. Apparently, Lebron decided that he could not trust the Cavs front office and management last summer. Not just for the disastrous Kyrie Irving trade, but because he was working hard to convince Jamal Crawford to come to Cleveland as a free agent but the team chose to sign Cedi Osman instead. Lebron felt Crawford's scoring punch off the bench would be much more useful. Given the way Osman performed this season, it sure seems like Lebron was right.
There is talk the Lakers are moving away from Paul George, who seems to really be thinking about returning to the Thunder, and are considering Boogie as a free agent instead. Cousins and Lebron could fit together really nicely, I think.
-Jason "what a fun time of year... no other sport has an off-season even in the same ballpark as the NBA" Evans
Not to mention that apparently the Cavs owner has stated he would like Lebron to leave so he can get his team back. It’s looking more and more like this next year he won’t be able to compete with the Warriors. No matter what team he goes to it looks like it will be year 2 or 3 before he will be able to challenge the Warriors.
JasonEvans
06-30-2018, 12:24 PM
Not to mention that apparently the Cavs owner has stated he would like Lebron to leave so he can get his team back. It’s looking more and more like this next year he won’t be able to compete with the Warriors. No matter what team he goes to it looks like it will be year 2 or 3 before he will be able to challenge the Warriors.
There seems to be a lot of "the Warriors are unbeatable" going around even though the Celtics were playing without their two best players, the Rockets took the Ws to 7 and probably came within a Chris Paul injury of knocking the Warriors out, and Philly is doing nothing but getting more mature and they have a fat salary cap slot they can use to add a stud.
Well, I dunno how much this means they are trying to keep him. It merely means they will have the right to match offers on him. He is very likely to get offers higher than the qualifying offer of $4.3 mil. This merely allows the Bucks to match those offers or attempt a sign-and-trade to get something in return for him. With Kris Middleton on their roster, I'm just not sure Jabari is a great fit (though Middleton's contract is done after next season and the Bucks may want insurance in case he walks).
But, here is the real risk for Milwaukee -- it is not impossible to imagine that Jabari does not get great offers this summer. Cap space around the league is limited and Jabari is coming off of an injured season in which his play was pretty spotty. If he is healthy and plays the way he was before he got hurt, he's certainly worth $12+ mil a season. But, I really doubt he gets that kind of offer this year. He could decide to take the QO and play this year for $4.3 mil knowing he will become an unrestricted free agent after the coming season. It would make a lot of sense for him to do that. But, if he takes the $4.3 mil QO, a quirk in the CBA means that he would count... wait for it... $20.3 mil.
I don't know why, but some high draft picks carry really punitive cap hits if they accept qualifying offers. Aaron Gordon has a $7.2 mil QO that carries a $16.5 mil hit. Marcus Smart's $6 mil QO would bring a $13.6 mil hit to the Celtics. Dante Exum has a $4.3 mil option that carries a $14.9 mil cap hit. Obviously, it gets better the lower a player is in the draft. Jusuf Nurkic's QO is $4.7 mil but his cap hit is only $8,8 mil. Rodney Hood's is $3.4 with a cap hit of $7.2 mil.
Jabair is a pretty unique case of a really high draft pick with a QO that might be interesting to him and a cap hit that is huge. The way I see it, it gives Jabari more power over the Bucks. It would actually be in the team's interest to sign Jabari to a 1 year deal at $8 or $10 or even $12 mil rather than just having him take the QO.
-Jason "Jabari has one of the more interesting free agent situations -- aside from the superstars -- this summer" Evans
Slight correction Jason. The $20.3 million cap number is the cap hold for Parker until he signs a contract. Once he signs a contract, his cap hit is whatever the contract is worth.
The cap hold (250% of his last year deal) is there to keep teams from sitting on cap space that they don’t really have. So if Parker signs the qualifying offer, the cap hold goes away and he costs the amount of his QO in cap space.
Same applies for Hopd but on a smaller scale.
JasonEvans
06-30-2018, 02:52 PM
Slight correction Jason. The $20.3 million cap number is the cap hold for Parker until he signs a contract. Once he signs a contract, his cap hit is whatever the contract is worth.
The cap hold (250% of his last year deal) is there to keep teams from sitting on cap space that they don’t really have. So if Parker signs the qualifying offer, the cap hold goes away and he costs the amount of his QO in cap space.
Same applies for Hopd but on a smaller scale.
Ahhh, that makes sense. I was mystified why all these players had cap hits that were so far out of line with their QO salaries. It made no sense to me. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Slight correction Jason. The $20.3 million cap number is the cap hold for Parker until he signs a contract. Once he signs a contract, his cap hit is whatever the contract is worth.
The cap hold (250% of his last year deal) is there to keep teams from sitting on cap space that they don’t really have. So if Parker signs the qualifying offer, the cap hold goes away and he costs the amount of his QO in cap space.
Same applies for Hopd but on a smaller scale.
Still gives Jabari some leverage.
Still gives Jabari some leverage.
Not really. It just prevents the Bucks from signing a free agent with cap space and then signing Parker to big money above the cap.
Parker has very little control. He can:
1. Bet on himself and take the qualifying option, making himself a true free agent next summer;
2. Convince a team to sign him to an offer sheet and see if the Bucks match or not; or
3. Try to work out a deal with the Bucks.
Unfortunately for Parker, he hit restricted free agency in a bad year, with so few teams having cap space.
Kedsy
07-01-2018, 12:41 AM
Looks like Paul George re-signed with OKC. Which means LeBron has very little chance of putting together a title contender in LA.
Now what?
JNort
07-01-2018, 02:36 AM
Looks like Paul George re-signed with OKC. Which means LeBron has very little chance of putting together a title contender in LA.
Now what?
Find a way onto the Rockets? Resign with Cleveland and force a trade to Houston.
subzero02
07-01-2018, 04:21 AM
Looks like Paul George re-signed with OKC. Which means LeBron has very little chance of putting together a title contender in LA.
Now what?
Lebron and Cousins to the Lakers is viewed as a probable outcome...
kshepinthehouse
07-01-2018, 06:05 AM
Find a way onto the Rockets? Resign with Cleveland and force a trade to Houston.
I don’t know the specifics well, but apparently if we wanted to go to the Rockets, the best way for him to do that would have been to opt in to his contract with the Cavs with the intention of a sign and trade. Seems like the ship to Houston has sailed.
kshepinthehouse
07-01-2018, 06:06 AM
Looks like Paul George re-signed with OKC. Which means LeBron has very little chance of putting together a title contender in LA.
Now what?
Looks like Philly is his only chance of being on a title contender at this point.
kshepinthehouse
07-01-2018, 06:22 AM
In no surprise Chris Paul agrees to a 4 year $160 million contract with the Rockets. I know he was kind of promised the max after coming over last year, but that’s a lot of money for a 33 year old injury prone player. The Rockets didn’t feel 100% comfortable giving him the max and I bet they will regret this contract in a few years.
budwom
07-01-2018, 06:50 AM
In no surprise Chris Paul agrees to a 4 year $160 million contract with the Rockets. I know he was kind of promised the max after coming over last year, but that’s a lot of money for a 33 year old injury prone player. The Rockets didn’t feel 100% comfortable giving him the max and I bet they will regret this contract in a few years.
indeed, this is not at all Belichickian...
budwom
07-01-2018, 06:52 AM
Lebron and Cousins to the Lakers is viewed as a probable outcome...
Best of luck to whatever coach gets to tell those two what to do. Might as well go coachless and let Lebron run the show.
Troublemaker
07-01-2018, 08:00 AM
Trevor Ariza has agreed with the Suns on a 1-year, $15 million deal. (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23958932/phoenix-suns-agree-one-year-deal-trevor-ariza) That's a huge blow to the Rockets, imo. At least he didn't go to the Warriors on a discount, which had been a rumor.
While I agree with folks in some literal sense that the Warriors are not unbeatable next season, it really would have to be an injury-aided victory. It's just too hard to put together a team that would be favored over them if both teams are healthy. As the Lakers and Rockets are finding out.
And GSW still has the ~$5 million taxpayer midlevel exception to deploy. They messed up in free agency last year (Nick Young) but I wouldn't count on that happening again. It's more likely that they add a quality player for depth and that next season nobody gets as close to them as Houston did this past season.
UrinalCake
07-01-2018, 09:08 AM
In quasi-Duke related news, PF Ersan Ilyasova signs a three year, $21M deal with the Bucks. Probably not a good sign for Jabari staying in town.
JNort
07-01-2018, 09:31 AM
I don’t know the specifics well, but apparently if we wanted to go to the Rockets, the best way for him to do that would have been to opt in to his contract with the Cavs with the intention of a sign and trade. Seems like the ship to Houston has sailed.
He can always re sign with Cleveland
fraggler
07-01-2018, 09:45 AM
In no surprise Chris Paul agrees to a 4 year $160 million contract with the Rockets. I know he was kind of promised the max after coming over last year, but that’s a lot of money for a 33 year old injury prone player. The Rockets didn’t feel 100% comfortable giving him the max and I bet they will regret this contract in a few years.
It may have been promised, but that is a horrible contract. Like you said, he is old and injury prone. I bet they regret it already.
kshepinthehouse
07-01-2018, 09:58 AM
He can always re sign with Cleveland
Right, but I don’t know about the sign and trade then. I read a few days ago that if he would have exercised his player option with the Cavs, then that would have been a bad sign for them. Meaning he was exercising it more than likely to ask for a sign and trade. I believe the sign and trade isn’t an option right now considering he is an unrestricted free agent. I think when an unrestricted player signs with a team there is a set period of time that he isn’t allowed to be traded.
kshepinthehouse
07-01-2018, 10:01 AM
Trevor Ariza has agreed with the Suns on a 1-year, $15 million deal. (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23958932/phoenix-suns-agree-one-year-deal-trevor-ariza) That's a huge blow to the Rockets, imo. At least he didn't go to the Warriors on a discount, which had been a rumor.
While I agree with folks in some literal sense that the Warriors are not unbeatable next season, it really would have to be an injury-aided victory. It's just too hard to put together a team that would be favored over them if both teams are healthy. As the Lakers and Rockets are finding out.
And GSW still has the ~$5 million taxpayer midlevel exception to deploy. They messed up in free agency last year (Nick Young) but I wouldn't count on that happening again. It's more likely that they add a quality player for depth and that next season nobody gets as close to them as Houston did this past season.
I absolutely agree with this and think this hurts Houston more than most people would admit. He is the ultimate glue guy piece for a championship team and so versatile, especially defensively. This hurts them for sure. Hopefully, for their sake, Mbah a Moute can return to form after looking like a shell of himself following shoulder surgery. I definitely think the Rockets championship window will close up very quickly. This year may have been their best chance.
JasonEvans
07-01-2018, 10:39 AM
I don't get folks saying Lebron has no chance to win in Lakerland merely because PG13 is staying in OKC.
The Lakers are extremely likely, in my mind, to make a deal for Kwahi. Kwahi has essentially forced the Spurs into making that move. I don't see other folks giving up meaningful assets for one year of Kwahi. I suspect it takes 2 of the 3 Laker youngsters (Ingram, Kuzma, and Ball) to get the deal done for Kwahi. My bet is that the Lakers would like to keep Ingram or Kuzma, as they can both shoot better than Ball and don't need the ball in their hands as much as Ball does. But, at some point, the deal gets done.
At that point, the Lakers will have Kwahi and Lebron and will still have some cap room. I can easily see Cousins signing for whatever room they have left on a short term deal that allows them to re-sign him to a bigger number in the future. The Lakers will gleefully go over the cap and pay a tax to be a serious contender. They will use their exemptions and anything else they can to bring in some ring-chasing vets to fill up the roster (there may be a fair number of those this off-season as there isn't a lot of cap room around the league).
Lebron and Kwahi and just about anyone else is a legit title contender. If the "anyone else" is Cousins and Ball (a good defender who rebounds and passes really well) and a couple other ring-chasers, I think that team might be the co-favorite for the title.
-Jason "Kwahi to the Lakers will be announced in the next week and Lebron will announce to the Lakers within 24 hours of it happening" Evans
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