2020 Duke men's basketball recruiting

[TKG]

Dem's the rules. I expect we will get something less than a death sentence.

I expect a moral equivalency argument from fans of UK and The cheats.

[Troublemaker]

Shoot, I'm not convinced Isaiah Todd wouldn't play center. At many schools he would, as would Brandon Johns, especially if Isaiah Livers (who is a college 4) sticks around for his senior year. We don't have enough data on Howard's commitment to playing bigball to rule out Todd and Johns playing center.

Duke's immediate playing time situation is as attractive as any of these finalists for Dickinson, better than most.

[scottdude8]

Is it true that there is no heir apparent to Teske on Michigan's roster? Not Davis, who I agree has been a dud. But 6'11" Colin Castelton will be a junior next year. He played a little as a freshman under Beilein (although not very impressively in my opinion) and is slated to take on a bigger role this year. He got 12 minutes in the opener. Castleton will be 2 years in the program ahead of Dickinson, so if Howard develops him this year, it seems like he'd be an obstacle to starting or maybe even major minutes for Dickinson as a freshman.

It's possible that Howard will be a big man-centric coach, but I think a game or two this year is too small a sample to determine that. It could also be that this team is pretty short on proven perimeter shooters/slashers so Teske down low is the best first option.

If Jon Beilein were still the coach, I'd 100% agree that Castleton is the heir apparent. But in Howard's system I don't think so. Castleton is rail-thin and a guy who likes to score more on the perimeter, and that body limits his projection as a defender and rebounder. I think Howard ideally views Castleton as a guy who can play the 4 in a "twin-towers" lineup and periodically spell the 5 (which is what most expect him to do this year). There was even some speculation during the off-season they might see if he was mobile enough to play the 3 (not gonna happen). So while on paper seeing a 6-11 guy on the roster might overlap with Dickinson, unless Castleton takes a HUGE step forward this year I doubt that'll be the case. If anything he'll be an ideal 3rd big man behind Todd and someone else (maybe Dickinson) able to spell both the 4 and 5.

[scottdude8]

Shoot, I'm not convinced Isaiah Todd wouldn't play center. At many schools he would, as would Brandon Johns, especially if Isaiah Livers (who is a college 4) sticks around for his senior year. We don't have enough data on Howard's commitment to playing bigball to rule out Todd and Johns playing center.

Duke's immediate playing time situation is as attractive as any of these finalists for Dickinson, better than most.

Todd has explicitly said he doesn't view himself as a center, but as a stretch 4, and my understanding is that's the role Howard sold him on. Yes, he has the size to play college 5, no doubt. But I'd be shocked if that's the plan, and even more shocked if Dickinson sees Todd as competition for PT.

FWIW, Livers is a guy who can play the 3, and I would imagine that's the plan for him next year. Many Michigan fans think that this year's best Wolverine lineup, especially while Franz Wagner is out, is a twin-towers situation with Teske and the previously mentioned Castleton, with Livers at the 3. Livers is a plus defender and mobile for his size, so more than capable of filling that role.

Going into last year I thought Johns might play as a big, especially in Beilein's system, and there were a couple of games where he ended up doing so out of necessity due to fouls/injury. But he looked like a deer in the headlights in the paint. He's another guy who, despite his body, is more comfortable on the perimeter, and is more naturally either a stretch-4 or a large-3. Again, with Howard's emphasis on more traditional big man play, Johns isn't going to be starting at the 5 unless something major changes.

Again, none of this is to say that these aren't things that Dickinson might think about. But in my mind if a school is selling him on the ability to step onto campus and be the starting "center", in the most traditional sense of the word, Michigan has the best pitch since Mark Williams committed.

Another disclaimer, I know NOTHING about Dickinson's thought process here. I don't know whether early PT/starting is playing a factor in his decision. But just playing things out, if that is at the forefront of his mind there isn't anyone on Michigan's roster next year of the caliber of Wililams to compete with.

And for those who are going to accuse me of dual-allegiances, OF COURSE I WANT HIM AT DUKE! Just trying to keep things realistic and key everyone in on what the "other side" is saying, which as is noted often on the front page is sometimes the best way to judge the trajectory of recruiting.

[tommy]

If Jon Beilein were still the coach, I'd 100% agree that Castleton is the heir apparent. But in Howard's system I don't think so. Castleton is rail-thin and a guy who likes to score more on the perimeter, and that body limits his projection as a defender and rebounder. I think Howard ideally views Castleton as a guy who can play the 4 in a "twin-towers" lineup and periodically spell the 5 (which is what most expect him to do this year). There was even some speculation during the off-season they might see if he was mobile enough to play the 3 (not gonna happen). So while on paper seeing a 6-11 guy on the roster might overlap with Dickinson, unless Castleton takes a HUGE step forward this year I doubt that'll be the case. If anything he'll be an ideal 3rd big man behind Todd and someone else (maybe Dickinson) able to spell both the 4 and 5.

Maybe you're right and Howard sees Castleton as a 4 in a twin towers lineup, ideally. If that's the case, then, I would expect to see him in that role THIS year next to Teske, with Livers sliding to the 3 as you indicate he is cut out for. I didn't see the App State game, but in the highlights I did not see the two big guys playing together. Maybe that's coming, but it is something to watch and see how Howard sees Castleton fitting in and in what role and playing next to what type of players.

A big reason that I was unimpressed with Castleton last year was the fact that he was so thin. Just doesn't have the pop-out muscles. Now I just checked and some sites have him at 235 pounds. Another has him at 210 still. If he's at 235, I would think that would change things. A guy who is 6'11" and 235 pounds should certainly be able to hold his position down low at the college level.

Who knows how this will work out. But if Dickinson is comparing competing for major minutes with a fellow freshman in Mark Williams, albeit a higher ranked one than he is, vs. a junior in Castleton who has been used as a college center (spelling Teske but not playing alongside him), and who has played reasonably well, I'm not sure that would be an obvious, clear-cut choice.

[AtlDuke72]

I am surprised that there is not some mention of A. J. Griffin committing on the Board. Is there any chance that he will enter school a year early?

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I am surprised that there is not some mention of A. J. Griffin committing on the Board. Is there any chance that he will enter school a year early?
There is a dedicated thread...

https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?44296-Welcome-to-Duke-AJ-Griffin!

But it’s down to page 4 because, you know, we’re back to the minutes discussions and what not. :cool:

[Troublemaker]

Todd has explicitly said he doesn't view himself as a center, but as a stretch 4, and my understanding is that's the role Howard sold him on. Yes, he has the size to play college 5, no doubt. But I'd be shocked if that's the plan, and even more shocked if Dickinson sees Todd as competition for PT.

FWIW, Livers is a guy who can play the 3, and I would imagine that's the plan for him next year. Many Michigan fans think that this year's best Wolverine lineup, especially while Franz Wagner is out, is a twin-towers situation with Teske and the previously mentioned Castleton, with Livers at the 3. Livers is a plus defender and mobile for his size, so more than capable of filling that role.

Going into last year I thought Johns might play as a big, especially in Beilein's system, and there were a couple of games where he ended up doing so out of necessity due to fouls/injury. But he looked like a deer in the headlights in the paint. He's another guy who, despite his body, is more comfortable on the perimeter, and is more naturally either a stretch-4 or a large-3. Again, with Howard's emphasis on more traditional big man play, Johns isn't going to be starting at the 5 unless something major changes.

Again, none of this is to say that these aren't things that Dickinson might think about. But in my mind if a school is selling him on the ability to step onto campus and be the starting "center", in the most traditional sense of the word, Michigan has the best pitch since Mark Williams committed.

Another disclaimer, I know NOTHING about Dickinson's thought process here. I don't know whether early PT/starting is playing a factor in his decision. But just playing things out, if that is at the forefront of his mind there isn't anyone on Michigan's roster next year of the caliber of Wililams to compete with.

And for those who are going to accuse me of dual-allegiances, OF COURSE I WANT HIM AT DUKE! Just trying to keep things realistic and key everyone in on what the "other side" is saying, which as is noted often on the front page is sometimes the best way to judge the trajectory of recruiting.

Okay, but that would make 6'8" Wagner the SG even though Eli Brooks is already the SG this year, and Michigan is bringing in Zeb Jackson to replace Xavier Simpson at PG, and David DeJulius is a 4-star sophomore PG that played 28 minutes in the first game.

It just seems like a lot of guys will have to play down a position in order for Dickinson to be the sure-thing starting center. Quite frankly, PG Jackson- SG Brooks- SF Wagner - PF Livers - C Todd is a good-looking starting lineup and probably how many coaches would play it. It may very well be how Juwan Howard ends up playing it if/when the bigball experiment collapses.

I do understand that you're only relaying what the Michigan coaches are selling (and hopefully believing, at least at this point).

[scottdude8]

Okay, but that would make 6'8" Wagner the SG even though Eli Brooks is already the SG this year, and Michigan is bringing in Zeb Jackson to replace Xavier Simpson at PG, and David DeJulius is a 4-star sophomore PG that played 28 minutes in the first game.

It just seems like a lot of guys will have to play down a position in order for Dickinson to be the sure-thing starting center. Quite frankly, PG Jackson- SG Brooks- SF Wagner - PF Livers - C Todd is a good-looking starting lineup and probably how many coaches would play it. It may very well be how Juwan Howard ends up playing it if/when the bigball experiment collapses.

I do understand that you're only relaying what the Michigan coaches are selling (and hopefully believing, at least at this point).

Believe it or not, Wagner IS expected to be a tall SG. Despite his family name he is a perimeter player, and played on the wing primarily in Germany. He’s a deadeye three point shooter.

Also, both Eli Brooks and David DeJulius (currently on the roster) will play off the ball this year with Simpson, but they’re both natural point guards. DeJulius was one of the top PGs in the state when he came out. Ideally one of them steps up this year to start next year at PG, since from what I’ve read Jackson is more of a combo guard.

I agree with you that the 2020 roster you outlined would be pretty damn solid. But I doubt that’s Howard’s Plan A. That would likely involve Todd at the 4, Livers at the 3, Wagner at the 2. Yes that’s a big lineup, but that’s where those guys’ skill sets make the most sense.

But let’s not hijack this thread with a discussion of Michigan’s future lol.

[jimsumner]

But let’s not hijack this thread with a discussion of Michigan’s future lol.

Horse, barn door and all that. :)

[DavidBenAkiva]

Happy Signing Day! The Duke commits for the Class of 2020 are expected to sign their National Letters of Intent during the early signing period, which begins today.

Various tweets have confirmed that Henry Coleman, Jalen Johnson, Jeremy Roach, DJ Steward, and Mark Williams are scheduled to sign today.

A rumor on an Ole Miss recruiting board suggested that Jaemyn Brakefield was having second thoughts and might not sign with Duke. That was silly on its face as Brakefield took an unofficial visit to Duke just this past weekend to take in the home opener. He also tweeted out that rumors that he is having second thoughts are false (and used a blue heart and lock emoji). Eric Bossi of Rivals (https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/early-signing-period-live-blog) had a chat with Brakefield in which he had the following to say about the matter:


For the past 72 hours, rumors have been swirling that top 40 forward Jaemyn Brakefield's commitment could be shaky to Duke. In particular, Ole Miss was popping up as a program he could potentially flip to.

Rivals.com was in contact with the skilled 6-foot-9 scorer from Huntington (W.V.) Prep on signing day he said that it "was just a rumor going around."

Brakefield confirmed that he still plans to sign with Duke and that he should have his signing plans finalized shortly. If you are looking for signing day drama, looks like you will have to look elsewhere.

Brakefield is on a team with several D1 prospects, including Isaiah Cottrell (West Virginia), AJ Hoggard (Michigan State), and Zach Loveday (Baylor). My assumption is that the school is working on a coordinated signing event or something like that.

[SavDukeGrad]

Happy Signing Day! The Duke commits for the Class of 2020 are expected to sign their National Letters of Intent during the early signing period, which begins today.

Various tweets have confirmed that Henry Coleman, Jalen Johnson, Jeremy Roach, DJ Steward, and Mark Williams are scheduled to sign today.

A rumor on an Ole Miss recruiting board suggested that Jaemyn Brakefield was having second thoughts and might not sign with Duke. That was silly on its face as Brakefield took an unofficial visit to Duke just this past weekend to take in the home opener. He also tweeted out that rumors that he is having second thoughts are false (and used a blue heart and lock emoji). Eric Bossi of Rivals (https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/early-signing-period-live-blog) had a chat with Brakefield in which he had the following to say about the matter:

Brakefield is on a team with several D1 prospects, including Isaiah Cottrell (West Virginia), AJ Hoggard (Michigan State), and Zach Loveday (Baylor). My assumption is that the school is working on a coordinated signing event or something like that.

Duke mbb has posted pictures of Jalen Johnson and Henry Coleman signing today. Don’t know about the others.

[brevity]

Duke mbb has posted pictures of Jalen Johnson and Henry Coleman signing today. Don’t know about the others.

I see only secondhand info on Jeremy Roach signing. Nothing official. DukeMBB Twitter (https://twitter.com/DukeMBB) has retweeted the following from DJ Steward and Mark Williams:

DJ Steward (https://twitter.com/swipasnipa/status/1194742899201781761) @swipasnipa

It’s official Duke Nation!! #TheBrotherhood 🙏🏽✍🏽💙

2:24 PM - 13 Nov 2019

Mark Williams (https://twitter.com/MarkWi1liams/status/1194752038145601547) @MarkWi1liams

Can’t wait!! @DukeMBB 😈✍🏾#TheBrotherhood

3:00 PM - 13 Nov 2019

And finally a 2-day delay for Jaemyn Brakefield:

Jaemyn Brakefield (https://twitter.com/Jaemyn1/status/1194769700313546757) @Jaemyn1

I will be signing my NLI Friday November 15th at St. Joseph Central Catholic High School @ 2:30pm! Open to everyone.. 😁💙

4:11 PM - 13 Nov 2019

[English]

I see only secondhand info on Jeremy Roach signing. Nothing official.

Credit to @UpdateDuke, but s/he posted a pic on the Twitter dot com of Roach with his parents signing his LOI yesterday, so that's a done deal.

Only outstanding commit to sign, as you mentioned, is Jaemyn who has set a signing date of tomorrow.

Another number one recruiting haul in Durham, ladies and gentlemen.

[Dukehk]

Are there some rumblings that Kuminga could be a late addition to this class based on NBA departures and officially reclassifying?

[DukeFanSince1990]

Are there some rumblings that Kuminga could be a late addition to this class based on NBA departures and officially reclassifying?

He is not reclassifying: https://clutchpoints.com/2021-no-1-overall-prospect-jonathan-kuminga-not-reclassifying-recruitment-wide-open/

[brevity]

And finally a 2-day delay for Jaemyn Brakefield:

Jaemyn Brakefield (https://twitter.com/Jaemyn1/status/1194769700313546757) @Jaemyn1

I will be signing my NLI Friday November 15th at St. Joseph Central Catholic High School @ 2:30pm! Open to everyone.. 😁💙

4:11 PM - 13 Nov 2019

DBR is seriously slacking off if it needs me to provide recruiting updates. As I previously reported in DBR Chat -- an exclusive! -- Jaemyn Brakefield made it official and signed with Duke earlier today. (https://twitter.com/Jaemyn1/status/1195487481405284357)

[proelitedota]

UK picks up Isiah Jackson. They have #1 recruiting class for now.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Sounds like K and crew have their eye a possible reclass candidate for 2020... 6’11” 220lb Charles Bediako. No offer from Duke yet but sounds like he’s open to the concept of reclassifying. He turns 18 in March.

https://balldurham.com/2019/11/16/duke-basketball-eye-final-piece-2020/amp/

[arnie]

Sounds like K and crew have their eye a possible reclass candidate for 2020... 6’11” 220lb Charles Bediako. No offer from Duke yet but sounds like he’s open to the concept of reclassifying. He turns 18 in March.

https://balldurham.com/2019/11/16/duke-basketball-eye-final-piece-2020/amp/

Intriguing prospect. I didn’t think we needed another recruit, but assuming Carey goes pro next Spring, looks like he could provide needed depth in the post.

[SkyBrickey]

He is rising quickly in the rankings in his class. Number 40 overall and number 6 center. He could be competing for the starting job if he keeps developing. From what I read, a similar skill set to Williams. But he insists he’s waiting to the spring to make any decisions.

[Bluedevil114]

He is rising quickly in the rankings in his class. Number 40 overall and number 6 center. He could be competing for the starting job if he keeps developing. From what I read, a similar skill set to Williams. But he insists he’s waiting to the spring to make any decisions.

With no offer does that mean he is a backup plan if Dickinson grows elsewhere? I think we need to have another center on the roster behind Mark Williams for next year.

[SkyBrickey]

If Dickinson accepts, he won’t get an offer. I guess that means he’s the backup plan but it doesn’t mean he’s any less of a talent.

[DavidBenAkiva]

I tend to take whatever gets posted to Ball Durham with 2 grains of salt, but it seems clear that Bediako is target for the coaching staff. That doesn't mean that he's going to reclassify to the class of 2020. Duke already has offers out for the class of 2021 and may look at Bediako as the primary center prospect for that class. Still, given the timing with Hunter Dickinson, this one seems to be a fluid situation.

[JasonEvans]

This is not about Duke but certainly relates to 2020 basketball recruiting.

The front page article on NC State recruiting struck me as interesting. It notes that State has signed 5 guys and projects them as having a "solid class." While 2 of the recruits are quite good -- top 50 prospects -- the other 3 are not nearly as well regarded.

Josh Hall - 6-9 PF ranked #42 by 247 - offers from Lou, Fla, Kansas among others
Cam Hayes - 6-1 PG ranked #47 - offers from Virg, Lou, FSU among others
Shakeel Moore - 6-1 PG ranked #202 - offers from several Big East schools like Gtown and DePaul as well as lower tier SEC like Ole Miss and Vandy
Nick Farrar - 6-7 PF ranked #218 - LSU was the only other P5 conference team to offer him
Ebenezer Dowuona - 6-10 C ranked #283 - schools like Pitt, Auburn, Ga Tech were after him

I'm not saying these guys won't be contributors and I know not every recruit can be top 100... but I'm not really seeing this class as the one that will form the foundation of a team that pulls NC State back into the top tier of the ACC. Just my opinion.

-Jason "worth noting that State is not done recruiting yet... they are still in it for top 40 center Cliff Omoruyi, but the crystal ball says this is a battle between Az State and Kentucky" Evans

[kAzE]

Not that anyone should care, but just for the sake of discussion, Duke lost the #1 ranking for the class of 2020 last week, when Kentucky commit Devin Askew reclassified from the class of 2021 to join Kentucky's class of 2020. Kentucky's deep 2020 recruiting class is now equal in number to Duke's, with 6 members:

Terrence Clarke, G/F (#4 on 247Sports)
BJ Boston, SG (#13)
Devin Askew, PG (#18)
Isaiah Jackson, PF (#26)
Lance Ware, PF (#34)
Cam'Ron Fletcher, SF (#45)

Duke's class by comparison:

Jalen Johnson, F (#6)
Jeremy Roach, PG (#21)
DJ Steward, G (#27)
Mark Williams, C (#30)
Jaemyn Brakefield, PF (#39)
Henry Coleman, F (#41)

I suspect a few of the Duke recruits (Roach, Steward, possibly Brakefield) could move up the rankings throughout this year, so even if we do not end up adding a 7th commit, it's not unlikely that our class ends up at #1 when it's all said and done, but right now, I think I would agree that Kentucky appears to have the top overall class.

[roywhite]

Not that anyone should care, but just for the sake of discussion, Duke lost the #1 ranking for the class of 2020 last week, when Kentucky commit Devin Askew reclassified from the class of 2021 to join Kentucky's class of 2020. Kentucky's deep 2020 recruiting class is now equal in number to Duke's, with 6 members:

I suspect a few of the Duke recruits (Roach, Steward, possibly Brakefield) could move up the rankings throughout this year, so even if we do not end up adding a 7th commit, it's not unlikely that our class ends up at #1 when it's all said and done, but right now, I think I would agree that Kentucky appears to have the top overall class.

That designation means more to their coach than it does to our coach.

[SkyBrickey]

Interesting the parallels between the Duke and UK classes. Both coaches are "loading up" on likely multi-year guys relative to other recent recruiting classes.

I love this class for us and the idea that at least three of these guys should be in the rotation down the road as experienced juniors/seniors (Williams, Coleman, Brakefield).

[dm9e24]

I'm more interested in where the team finishes during the season, not where we are in our recruiting class.

Not sure we hang banners for #1 recruiting classes. More than a few national championships have been won lately by teams that didn't finish #1 in recruiting.

I think this current class is going to be a very good one and hopefully will be in combination with a few kids from last year's class

[Pghdukie]

When are the Boozer off-springs going to infiltrate the Duke recruiting scene ?

[kcduke75]

I understand that the Dickenson ship has probably sailed. But is it official?

[richardjackson199]

I understand that the Dickenson ship has probably sailed. But is it official?

No clue. Not looking good at all with all the Duke guys and Jerry Meyer saying Michigan. But I'd wait until Evan Daniels says so. We'd have to hire Dickinson's brother to make Evan Daniels wrong.

[DavidBenAkiva]

I'm more interested in where the team finishes during the season, not where we are in our recruiting class.

Not sure we hang banners for #1 recruiting classes. More than a few national championships have been won lately by teams that didn't finish #1 in recruiting.

I think this current class is going to be a very good one and hopefully will be in combination with a few kids from last year's class

Sir, this is a thread about recruiting

[DavidBenAkiva]

Not that anyone should care, but just for the sake of discussion, Duke lost the #1 ranking for the class of 2020 last week, when Kentucky commit Devin Askew reclassified from the class of 2021 to join Kentucky's class of 2020. Kentucky's deep 2020 recruiting class is now equal in number to Duke's, with 6 members:

Terrence Clarke, G/F (#4 on 247Sports)
BJ Boston, SG (#13)
Devin Askew, PG (#18)
Isaiah Jackson, PF (#26)
Lance Ware, PF (#34)
Cam'Ron Fletcher, SF (#45)

Duke's class by comparison:

Jalen Johnson, F (#6)
Jeremy Roach, PG (#21)
DJ Steward, G (#27)
Mark Williams, C (#30)
Jaemyn Brakefield, PF (#39)
Henry Coleman, F (#41)

I suspect a few of the Duke recruits (Roach, Steward, possibly Brakefield) could move up the rankings throughout this year, so even if we do not end up adding a 7th commit, it's not unlikely that our class ends up at #1 when it's all said and done, but right now, I think I would agree that Kentucky appears to have the top overall class.

As is usually the case, it will matter who returns for each of the two programs. Kentucky is most likely going to lose Ashton Hagans, Tyrese Maxey, Kahlil Whitney, and Nate Sestina (grad transfer). It's not clear yet if EJ Montgomery, Nick Richards, and Immanuel Quickley will return, either. It's not out of the realm of possibility that all 7 of those players could leave via the NBA draft or transfer. If Richards goes, UK might make a major push for Cliff Omoruyi. So if they do end up with the #1 class, the cupboard could be extremely bare.

For Duke, the question is the same - who returns? Goldwire, O'Connell, and Baker seem like good bets to remain. I seriously doubt Tre Jones will be a junior at Duke. Carey is looking more and more like a mid-round or even late lottery pick. But there are questions about Hurt, Moore, and Stanley. I would love for all three of them to return for many reasons. If at least 2 of them come back, I really like the team's chances next season. I'm not sold on Duke as a top 10 team if all 3 depart.

[frb]

As is usually the case, it will matter who returns for each of the two programs. Kentucky is most likely going to lose Ashton Hagans, Tyrese Maxey, Kahlil Whitney, and Nate Sestina (grad transfer). It's not clear yet if EJ Montgomery, Nick Richards, and Immanuel Quickley will return, either. It's not out of the realm of possibility that all 7 of those players could leave via the NBA draft or transfer. If Richards goes, UK might make a major push for Cliff Omoruyi. So if they do end up with the #1 class, the cupboard could be extremely bare.

For Duke, the question is the same - who returns? Goldwire, O'Connell, and Baker seem like good bets to remain. I seriously doubt Tre Jones will be a junior at Duke. Carey is looking more and more like a mid-round or even late lottery pick. But there are questions about Hurt, Moore, and Stanley. I would love for all three of them to return for many reasons. If at least 2 of them come back, I really like the team's chances next season. I'm not sold on Duke as a top 10 team if all 3 depart.

Carey is gone. Athletic big who can shoot. There's a spot for him in nearly any NBA rotation.

Moore is most likely to return of the freshmen as he's very young for a college freshman. Just turned 18. He can stay another year and still enter NBA training camp in 2021 as a teenager.

Stanley is likely gone. He's already 20 years old. He's older than Zion. Even if he's not a guaranteed first rounder, I think he wants to get his pro career started.

Hurt? IDK. Seems to be struggling a bit. Questions about his defense and even what he's best at- shooting. A second year would be great for both parties.

[Saratoga2]

Carey is gone. Athletic big who can shoot. There's a spot for him in nearly any NBA rotation.

Moore is most likely to return of the freshmen as he's very young for a college freshman. Just turned 18. He can stay another year and still enter NBA training camp in 2021 as a teenager.

Stanley is likely gone. He's already 20 years old. He's older than Zion. Even if he's not a guaranteed first rounder, I think he wants to get his pro career started.

Hurt? IDK. Seems to be struggling a bit. Questions about his defense and even what he's best at- shooting. A second year would be great for both parties.

We will be losing javin, Jack and Justin and Vernon is almost certain to go. That will deplete our front line for next year and require our new young guys to be ready to contribute at the outset. I too think Cassius and Tre are also highly likely to leave.

[DavidBenAkiva]

It's #TwitterTuesday, and that means Corey Evans of Rivals has a new article (https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/twitter-tuesday-ziaire-williams-hunter-dickinson-michigan-state). In it, he has a couple of updates on players that have received an offer but are not expected to commit to Duke, Ziaire Williams and Hunter Dickinson.

There are a couple items here I find interesting. For Williams, Evans notes that UNC is seemingly out of scholarships for next year. That contributes to the idea that the young wing will stay out on the West Coast. This is an interesting nugget in the long-running debate some have on this board. Should a team get a commitment from a lower-rated recruit rather than put their hopes in landing a top 10 player? UNC seems to have done just that, using its last remaining scholarship on 4-star wing Donovan "Puff" Johnson rather than hold out hope for Ziaire Williams. We'll see how that pays off for UNC next season. That all might be a moot point if any players unexpectedly leave the program.

For Dickinson, Evans notes that he expected the big man to commit to Michigan this past weekend and still believes he knows where the young center will go. But Dickinson hasn't committed. Duke might be out of the picture, but then again, he hasn't committed. Several Duke insiders made picks on the Crystal Ball for Dickinson to go to Ann Arbor, where his high school girlfriend will be a member of the track and field team next year. None of the Michigan insiders have made their selection. Might there be a final twist in the saga?

[SavDukeGrad]

It's #TwitterTuesday, and that means Corey Evans of Rivals has a new article (https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/twitter-tuesday-ziaire-williams-hunter-dickinson-michigan-state). In it, he has a couple of updates on players that have received an offer but are not expected to commit to Duke, Ziaire Williams and Hunter Dickinson.

There are a couple items here I find interesting. For Williams, Evans notes that UNC is seemingly out of scholarships for next year. That contributes to the idea that the young wing will stay out on the West Coast. This is an interesting nugget in the long-running debate some have on this board. Should a team get a commitment from a lower-rated recruit rather than put their hopes in landing a top 10 player? UNC seems to have done just that, using its last remaining scholarship on 4-star wing Donovan "Puff" Johnson rather than hold out hope for Ziaire Williams. We'll see how that pays off for UNC next season. That all might be a moot point if any players unexpectedly leave the program.

For Dickinson, Evans notes that he expected the big man to commit to Michigan this past weekend and still believes he knows where the young center will go. But Dickinson hasn't committed. Duke might be out of the picture, but then again, he hasn't committed. Several Duke insiders made picks on the Crystal Ball for Dickinson to go to Ann Arbor, where his high school girlfriend will be a member of the track and field team next year. None of the Michigan insiders have made their selection. Might there be a final twist in the saga?

Thanks DBA - I always appreciate your recruiting updates!

I wondered if everyone realizes that Puff Johnson is the younger brother of Cameron Johnson. I always had the feeling that was the main reason they recruited him, and if he wanted to commit, I would think they felt like they had to embrace it. You know, since they are the only school in the history of college basketball to have a “family atmosphere” among their players/former players. :rolleyes:

[BD80]

…

I wondered if everyone realizes that Puff Johnson is the younger brother of Cameron Johnson. ...

I think the more interesting factoid would be the origin of his name "Puff."

[Steven43]

You know, since they (UNC) are the only school in the history of college basketball to have a “family atmosphere” among their players/former players. :rolleyes:
Your comment made me laugh 😀.
And truthfully, UNC does seem to have precisely the arrogant attitude to which you allude. I don’t know why they feel that way— because it’s ludicrous for any school to think such a thing — but they absolutely do.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I think the more interesting factoid would be the origin of his name "Puff."

His expertise at the give and go?

[SavDukeGrad]

Your comment made me laugh 😀.
And truthfully, UNC does seem to have precisely the arrogant attitude to which you allude. I don’t know why they feel that way— because it’s ludicrous for any school to think such a thing — but they absolutely do.

Yes, absolutely my point. One only needs to look at IC once to be enlightened: Dean invented “family”; they are the only program in college basketball to have a true family atmosphere, the “Carolina family”; the “Brotherhood” is a joke - copied from them and doesn’t really exist because all Duke players and coaches are inherently selfish and care only about themselves and individual accomplishments; and the only virtuous thing in college basketball is the “Carolina Way”. :rolleyes: Have I missed anything?

[jimsumner]

His expertise at the give and go?

Maybe he's a magic dragon.

[Steven43]

Yes, absolutely my point. One only needs to look at IC once to be enlightened: Dean invented “family”; they are the only program in college basketball to have a true family atmosphere, the “Carolina family”; the “Brotherhood” is a joke - copied from them and doesn’t really exist because all Duke players and coaches are inherently selfish and care only about themselves and individual accomplishments; and the only virtuous thing in college basketball is the “Carolina Way”. :rolleyes: Have I missed anything?

Nope, that pretty well covers it. UNC, particularly the men’s basketball team, has been incredibly arrogant for decades. I never have understood why or how that whole thing got started. Were they (Dean Smith and cohorts) just sitting around eating lunch one day when one of them suddenly suggested they start marketing themselves with the whole “Carolina Way” thing? Who knows. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall back then. If only for my own amusement.

[BD80]

Nope, that pretty well covers it. UNC, particularly the men’s basketball team, has been incredibly arrogant for decades. I never have understood why or how that whole thing got started. Were they (Dean Smith and cohorts) just sitting around eating lunch one day when one of them suddenly suggested they start marketing themselves with the whole “Carolina Way” thing? Who knows. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall back then. If only for my own amusement.


One, a fly on the wall would never have been able to see a thing back then for the clouds of cigarette smoke emanating from Deano.


Two, even as diehard Duke fan, I cannot ignore the irony of a Duke fan calling any other fanbase "incredibly arrogant," particularly with respect to the "family" aspect of current and past players.

Calling ourselves "The Brotherhood" drives other fanbases absolutely bonkers.

[Steven43]

One, a fly on the wall would never have been able to see a thing back then for the clouds of cigarette smoke emanating from Deano.


Two, even as diehard Duke fan, I cannot ignore the irony of a Duke fan calling any other fanbase "incredibly arrogant," particularly with respect to the "family" aspect of current and past players.

Calling ourselves "The Brotherhood" drives other fanbases absolutely bonkers.

I am a Duke fan, yes, but I have never once voiced or written “The Brotherhood” in regard to Duke. So the suggestion of irony does not apply in this case.

[SouthernDukie]

I am a Duke fan, yes, but I have never once voiced or written “The Brotherhood” in regard to Duke. So the suggestion of irony does not apply in this case.

I have. And I delight in doing it regardless of how silly I know it appears. The fact that it drives a couple of Tar Heel fans I know crazy is more than enough incentive for me.

[TruBlu]

I have. And I delight in doing it regardless of how silly I know it appears. The fact that it drives a couple of Tar Heel fans I know crazy is more than enough incentive for me.

Well, that certainly is not a very long trip for them.:cool:

[jv001]

Nope, that pretty well covers it. UNC, particularly the men’s basketball team, has been incredibly arrogant for decades. I never have understood why or how that whole thing got started. Were they (Dean Smith and cohorts) just sitting around eating lunch one day when one of them suddenly suggested they start marketing themselves with the whole “Carolina Way” thing? Who knows. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall back then. If only for my own amusement.

Ah, the beginning of the academic cheating fraud. It had to have begun sometime-somewhere. And I can just see the cloud of smoke from Dean filling the room(BD80). Two good posts describing the meeting. GoDuke and 9F.

[SouthernDukie]

Well, that certainly is not a very long trip for them.:cool:

Ha! Very good.

[Dukehk]

Is Hunter Dickenson supposed to be making an announcement soon?

[arnie]

Is Hunter Dickenson supposed to be making an announcement soon?

https://balldurham.com/2019/11/21/date-duke-basketball-target-obvious/

This link indicates Hunter wanted to announce before HS season starts

[frb]

https://balldurham.com/2019/11/21/date-duke-basketball-target-obvious/

This link indicates Hunter wanted to announce before HS season starts

please don't link that site. The clown that runs it is a complete idiot.

He actually wrote this...

"DeLaurier can't dribble. He can't shoot. He definitely can't catch. He can't hold onto the ball in traffic. He can't defend in a halfcourt setting without fouling. He can't set legal screens. He can't pivot without tripping over his own feet or elbowing a defender. He can't bring his body to a halt without crashing into a teammate, opponent, or ref."

[duke74]

please don't link that site. The clown that runs it is a complete idiot.

He actually wrote this...

"DeLaurier can't dribble. He can't shoot. He definitely can't catch. He can't hold onto the ball in traffic. He can't defend in a halfcourt setting without fouling. He can't set legal screens. He can't pivot without tripping over his own feet or elbowing a defender. He can't bring his body to a halt without crashing into a teammate, opponent, or ref."

Also wrote that he's thankful that Javin won't be here next Thanksgiving. I replied on Twitter (Bull Durham and the individual account), and then unfollowed both. Classless.

[mattman91]

please don't link that site. The clown that runs it is a complete idiot.

He actually wrote this...

"DeLaurier can't dribble. He can't shoot. He definitely can't catch. He can't hold onto the ball in traffic. He can't defend in a halfcourt setting without fouling. He can't set legal screens. He can't pivot without tripping over his own feet or elbowing a defender. He can't bring his body to a halt without crashing into a teammate, opponent, or ref."

That isn't very nice, but...

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

That isn't very nice, but...

This year, I'm thankful you didn't finish that sentence!

[DavidBenAkiva]

https://balldurham.com/2019/11/21/date-duke-basketball-target-obvious/

This link indicates Hunter wanted to announce before HS season starts

Things change. Hunter Dickinson and DeMatha Catholic had their season-opening win over the weekend. The young center finished with 13 points in an 83-62 victory over Mt. Saint Joseph. Rivals recruiting expert Corey Evans wrote last Tuesday that he expected Dickinson to commit by now. I'm not sure what to make of the fact that he hasn't. To me, this is one of those cases where no one close to the young man or family has much insight into his thinking. Some recruits are like that. Wait and see is all there is to do. He seems to taking his time with an important decision.

If we can take our blinders off a second, he has some excellent options in front of him. I've got a world of respect for Leonard Hamilton, Mike Brey, and Michigan's basketball program (at least the 15 years of it). Juwan Howard has made a very positive early impression. And then there is Duke and Coach K. If you were the parents of this young man and these were the choices, how thrilled would you be?

[dm9e24]

Things change. Hunter Dickinson and DeMatha Catholic had their season-opening win over the weekend. The young center finished with 13 points in an 83-62 victory over Mt. Saint Joseph. Rivals recruiting expert Corey Evans wrote last Tuesday that he expected Dickinson to commit by now. I'm not sure what to make of the fact that he hasn't. To me, this is one of those cases where no one close to the young man or family has much insight into his thinking. Some recruits are like that. Wait and see is all there is to do. He seems to taking his time with an important decision.

If we can take our blinders off a second, he has some excellent options in front of him. I've got a world of respect for Leonard Hamilton, Mike Brey, and Michigan's basketball program (at least the 15 years of it). Juwan Howard has made a very positive early impression. And then there is Duke and Coach K. If you were the parents of this young man and these were the choices, how thrilled would you be?

Tough choice to make. I know his girlfriend went to Michigan as a track athlete. No clue if we are still in the picture, but it seems it is between Notre Dame, who has been recruiting him the longest, and Michigan. Howard's great start against top notch competition has been impressive.

[DavidBenAkiva]

ESPN updated their rankings for the Class of 2020 (http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/view/espnu100/sort/rank/class/2020). Here are the Duke commits. I haven't found their previous ranking to compare the rise/fall.

4. Jalen Johnson, SF
22. Jeremy Roach, PG
23. DJ Steward, SG
28. Jaemyn Brakefield, PF
29. Mark Williams, C
44. Henry Coleman, PF

FWIW, Hunter Dickinson is at 35 in this updated ranking. If memory serves, Jalen Johnson was more like 6 or 7, so that's a rise for him up to 4. Brakefield also went from around 35-40 up to 28 with Mark Williams making a similar rise. I think Henry Coleman fell a few slots to 44th while Jeremy Roach also slipped from inside to just outside the top 20.

[kAzE]

ESPN updated their rankings for the Class of 2020 (http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/view/espnu100/sort/rank/class/2020). Here are the Duke commits. I haven't found their previous ranking to compare the rise/fall.

4. Jalen Johnson, SF
22. Jeremy Roach, PG
23. DJ Steward, SG
28. Jaemyn Brakefield, PF
29. Mark Williams, C
44. Henry Coleman, PF

FWIW, Hunter Dickinson is at 35 in this updated ranking. If memory serves, Jalen Johnson was more like 6 or 7, so that's a rise for him up to 4. Brakefield also went from around 35-40 up to 28 with Mark Williams making a similar rise. I think Henry Coleman fell a few slots to 44th while Jeremy Roach also slipped from inside to just outside the top 20.

Still wondering what the back up plan for the front court is, since it sounds like we aren't getting Dickinson. Hopefully a center from the grad transfer market emerges? If our only option at the 5 next year is a freshman Mark Williams (maybe Brakefield?), it might be a little rough. I don't personally envision Matthew Hurt being able to play center, if he even sticks around for year 2.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Still wondering what the back up plan for the front court is, since it sounds like we aren't getting Dickinson. Hopefully a center from the grad transfer market emerges? If our only option at the 5 next year is a freshman Mark Williams (maybe Brakefield?), it might be a little rough. I don't personally envision Matthew Hurt being able to play center, if he even sticks around for year 2.

The more things remain silent on the Dickinson front, the more I am convinced the insiders have no real inside information with regards to this particular recruitment. And it doesn't change the situation for Duke one way or the other. If he commits to Duke in the next couple of months, great! If he doesn't, a new name will emerge as either a reclass candidate. And then the grad transfer market is there in the summer, after April. I am not worried about Duke's depth at C next season and won't be until June if it comes to it.

[SkyBrickey]

ESPN updated their rankings for the Class of 2020 (http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/view/espnu100/sort/rank/class/2020). Here are the Duke commits. I haven't found their previous ranking to compare the rise/fall.

4. Jalen Johnson, SF
22. Jeremy Roach, PG
23. DJ Steward, SG
28. Jaemyn Brakefield, PF
29. Mark Williams, C
44. Henry Coleman, PF

FWIW, Hunter Dickinson is at 35 in this updated ranking. If memory serves, Jalen Johnson was more like 6 or 7, so that's a rise for him up to 4. Brakefield also went from around 35-40 up to 28 with Mark Williams making a similar rise. I think Henry Coleman fell a few slots to 44th while Jeremy Roach also slipped from inside to just outside the top 20.

Absolutely love this class. Great to see some of these guys moving up the rankings.

Next year could be a bit of a dip depending on Jeremy Roach's health and who comes back (Hurt/Moore/Stanley) and what other depth we can bring to the 5 (grad transfer/Brakefield/Johnson/Hurt). But after next year, with this foundational class and assuming we continue to bring in 1-2 top 10 players each class, we should be very, very good over the near term.

When this group are juniors/seniors, watch out!

[bullettoothtony]

I know Kuminga and Banchero have said they're not reclassifying but I wouldn't be surprised if one of them changes his mind... probably Kuminga. If he does I wonder if we'll make a push.

I'm sure it would depend in part on who ends up leaving. Right now Carey would seem like the only lock to be one and done.

[SouthernDukie]

I know Kuminga and Banchero have said they're not reclassifying but I wouldn't be surprised if one of them changes his mind... probably Kuminga. If he does I wonder if we'll make a push.

I'm sure it would depend in part on who ends up leaving. Right now Carey would seem like the only lock to be one and done.

I think Cassius is all but a lock to leave after this year if for no other reason than his age. At 20, the clock is already ticking in the new NBA where youth and potential is everything (and that means being under the age of 20). Moore and Hurt? Who knows at this point.

[kAzE]

I think Cassius is all but a lock to leave after this year if for no other reason than his age. At 20, the clock is already ticking in the new NBA where youth and potential is everything (and that means being under the age of 20). Moore and Hurt? Who knows at this point.

I completely agree that Cassius will be one and done. He plays like he'll become a first round pick, and his age/injury situation will most likely push him to go pro.

However, unless a dramatic transformation happens, Wendell Moore will probably go undrafted if he leaves after this season. He has good size, but he's a below average athlete in the NBA, and he doesn't possess a single NBA ready skill. Matthew Hurt is currently projected to be drafted in the early second round, so he's more of a toss up. Based on what we've seen through this point in the season, I'm optimistic those two guys will be back for at least 1 more season. Hurt has a good chance to significantly increase his stock with another year of development, perhaps play his way into the lottery.

[DavidBenAkiva]

I completely agree that Cassius will be one and done. He plays like he'll become a first round pick, and his age/injury situation will most likely push him to go pro.

However, unless a dramatic transformation happens, Wendell Moore will probably go undrafted if he leaves after this season. He has good size, but he's a below average athlete in the NBA, and he doesn't possess a single NBA ready skill. Matthew Hurt is currently projected to be drafted in the early second round, so he's more of a toss up. Based on what we've seen through this point in the season, I'm optimistic those two guys will be back for at least 1 more season. Hurt has a good chance to significantly increase his stock with another year of development, perhaps play his way into the lottery.

I've said this before and I think it bears repeating.

Carey is gone.

I think one of Hurt, Stanley, and Moore is gone, too, and probably 2 of them. If the decision was made today, I think Moore returns. Which would be great news for Duke's 2020-21 season. We'll see what the decision looks like when it counts, in April.

[JayZee]

I completely agree that Cassius will be one and done. He plays like he'll become a first round pick, and his age/injury situation will most likely push him to go pro.

However, unless a dramatic transformation happens, Wendell Moore will probably go undrafted if he leaves after this season. He has good size, but he's a below average athlete in the NBA, and he doesn't possess a single NBA ready skill. Matthew Hurt is currently projected to be drafted in the early second round, so he's more of a toss up. Based on what we've seen through this point in the season, I'm optimistic those two guys will be back for at least 1 more season. Hurt has a good chance to significantly increase his stock with another year of development, perhaps play his way into the lottery.

If you could blend the best of Moore and Hurt together, that'd be a lottery pick.

[SouthernDukie]

If you could blend the best of Moore and Hurt together, that'd be a lottery pick.

A high lottery pick.

[WV_Iron_Duke]

There was a short article in The Washington Post (D-6) today concerning Jeremy Roach and his season debut. He played great :)

[MChambers]

There was a short article in The Washington Post (D-6) today concerning Jeremy Roach and his season debut. He played great :)

Here's the link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/12/04/duke-commit-jeremy-roach-is-back-home-with-paul-vi-after-last-seasons-acl-injury/

[kAzE]

I've said this before and I think it bears repeating.

Carey is gone.

Was anybody not sure about this? I figured Vernon and Tre going pro were a given.

[bullettoothtony]

I think Cassius is all but a lock to leave after this year if for no other reason than his age. At 20, the clock is already ticking in the new NBA where youth and potential is everything (and that means being under the age of 20). Moore and Hurt? Who knows at this point.


Yeah I think you're right about Stanley, I keep forgetting about his age.

Also agree about Moore and Hurt at this point. It's certainly going to be interesting to see how they evolve.

[westwall]

ESPN updated their rankings for the Class of 2020 (http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/view/espnu100/sort/rank/class/2020). Here are the Duke commits. I haven't found their previous ranking to compare the rise/fall.

4. Jalen Johnson, SF
22. Jeremy Roach, PG
23. DJ Steward, SG
28. Jaemyn Brakefield, PF
29. Mark Williams, C
44. Henry Coleman, PF

FWIW, Hunter Dickinson is at 35 in this updated ranking. If memory serves, Jalen Johnson was more like 6 or 7, so that's a rise for him up to 4. Brakefield also went from around 35-40 up to 28 with Mark Williams making a similar rise. I think Henry Coleman fell a few slots to 44th while Jeremy Roach also slipped from inside to just outside the top 20.

I recall that Johnson has been at # 4, so no change.
Roach has dropped about 8 points, perhaps due to concerns about last years injury. However, see post # 1570, supra.
Steward, Brakefield and Williams have moved up a spot or 2.
Coleman may have dropped a spot.

[yancem]

I think Cassius is all but a lock to leave after this year if for no other reason than his age. At 20, the clock is already ticking in the new NBA where youth and potential is everything (and that means being under the age of 20). Moore and Hurt? Who knows at this point.

While I understand that this is the current logic by most people, I really think it is faulty. Yes, players have a limited shelf life but if you wash out of the league because you aren't good enough/ready it will happen way before you get too old to play so age shouldn't matter. Plus, missing a year early in one's career to make sure you are good enough/ready to compete could easily add years to the back end of your career. Also, mileage is just as important if not more so than age. If you did a study of career length, I would imagine that the number of games played is better predictor than the age of retirement. Lastly, if you make it in the league (for say at least a few years) you've made an obscene amount of money, is the hundred grand or so you earn on a 2-way contract or as a second-round pick that first year really going to make a difference?

Now that's not to say that I think Stanley will or should stay. Assuming that he continues to improve as normal freshman do, he should be a first-round pick come April. He has elite athleticism, has proven himself to be a solid defender and is shooting a decent %. He still could show more in the shooting department and probably needs to keep working on his handle and passing but his raw skills and physical abilities are what nba execs are looking for.

[SouthernDukie]

While I understand that this is the current logic by most people, I really think it is faulty. Yes, players have a limited shelf life but if you wash out of the league because you aren't good enough/ready it will happen way before you get too old to play so age shouldn't matter. Plus, missing a year early in one's career to make sure you are good enough/ready to compete could easily add years to the back end of your career. Also, mileage is just as important if not more so than age. If you did a study of career length, I would imagine that the number of games played is better predictor than the age of retirement. Lastly, if you make it in the league (for say at least a few years) you've made an obscene amount of money, is the hundred grand or so you earn on a 2-way contract or as a second-round pick that first year really going to make a difference?

Now that's not to say that I think Stanley will or should stay. Assuming that he continues to improve as normal freshman do, he should be a first-round pick come April. He has elite athleticism, has proven himself to be a solid defender and is shooting a decent %. He still could show more in the shooting department and probably needs to keep working on his handle and passing but his raw skills and physical abilities are what nba execs are looking for.

I think your 2nd paragraph completely trumped your first one. Barring something unforeseen, Stanley will be one-and-done.

[TheOldBattleship]

While I understand that this is the current logic by most people, I really think it is faulty. Yes, players have a limited shelf life but if you wash out of the league because you aren't good enough/ready it will happen way before you get too old to play so age shouldn't matter. Plus, missing a year early in one's career to make sure you are good enough/ready to compete could easily add years to the back end of your career. Also, mileage is just as important if not more so than age. If you did a study of career length, I would imagine that the number of games played is better predictor than the age of retirement. Lastly, if you make it in the league (for say at least a few years) you've made an obscene amount of money, is the hundred grand or so you earn on a 2-way contract or as a second-round pick that first year really going to make a difference?

So, I think there are a few reasons why (for better or worse) players have motivation to leave early that you're missing here in this first paragraph. It's much less when you retire or about adding years on at the end of your career, and much more about getting two shots at non-rookie-scale contracts while you're still in your prime, at your best as a player and able to command a big payday. Rookie contracts for first-rounders last 4 years (last two team option years). The second contract is the first time first-round-drafted guys hit the open market, and they'll often end up taking long deals (better security, etc.). That puts a lot of guys' third contracts in their eight or ninth year in the league. There's a HUGE difference in having that third contract come when you're 27/28 vs. 29/30. A four-year deal for a 27 year-old guy that ends when he's 31 is just way less risky for a team than one for a 29 year old guy that ends when he's 33. The payscales for those two age windows are drastically different on average in the NBA these days. So that's a pretty sizable incentive for guys to go do their on-the-job training in the NBA early as opposed to later. (Questions about how much money anyone really needs aside.)

Second, there's the security (and attendant perks) of being drafted higher, combined with the fact that NBA teams do take into account age as a major factor in both a player's likely development curve and in a player's performance against similar players in a class. There's a constant worry that some guys in high school/college who look really outrageously good and are older just are just bigger and stronger because they are older than many of the guys they are competing with in their class. (As a Timberwolves fan, I have an easy exhibit A here: Shabazz Muhammed.) Again, this is very much a "for better or worse" situation, but player age is a significant factor in how NBA teams evaluate how high a player should be drafted, and younger is just about always better for teams.

So you have a group of hypercompetitive athletes who are given monetary incentives to be picked higher, along with a possible national close-up moment on the draft show, and pretty demonstrable evidence that, if they're likely to be drafted high one year, there's a very real chance that they will be drafted lower in the next year (and possibly cost themselves a lot of money both short- and long-term in the process). And all of this to about getting to play in the best basketball league in the world with guys you've been watching your whole life? There are obviously individual cases where it makes sense for a guy to come back to college, but this is why in general I don't question when guys enter the draft as soon as possible.

[Troublemaker]

I know Kuminga and Banchero have said they're not reclassifying but I wouldn't be surprised if one of them changes his mind... probably Kuminga. If he does I wonder if we'll make a push.

I smell a reclass/graduation from Kuminga as well. Sometimes a player like RJ Hampton will say he's not going to reclass to avoid all the distractions and noise of people constantly asking him where he's going to go. (Australia as it turned out for Hampton). Obviously, not sure Duke gets Kuminga if he reclasses. Not even sure he plays college ball. But I do think he will become part of the 2020 high school class.


Still wondering what the back up plan for the front court is, since it sounds like we aren't getting Dickinson. Hopefully a center from the grad transfer market emerges? If our only option at the 5 next year is a freshman Mark Williams (maybe Brakefield?), it might be a little rough.

With Jalen Johnson being a poor shooter, he ideally should spend some time as a small-ball 5 anyway, imo. For me, the allure of getting Dickinson is to spread the risk of "not good enough to start" across two top-35-ish prospects in Williams and Dickinson instead of just one of them. Typically players ranked where Williams and Dickinson are ranked aren't even in the rotation at Duke their freshman year, so I'm somewhat nervous about counting on one to be a quality starter as a freshman. That said, if you can guarantee me that Mark Williams will provide 25 mpg of consistent (i.e. stays healthy, usually avoids foul trouble), quality center play, I'm not really that concerned about having a backup center. As mentioned, Jalen Johnson should be playing some small-ball 5 in finishing lineups anyway. Something like Steward - Moore - Baker - Brakefield - Johnson would be intriguing.

But, as mentioned, since we can't guarantee that from Mark, then let's spread the risk across two prospects if possible.

[kAzE]

With Jalen Johnson being a poor shooter, he ideally should spend some time as a small-ball 5 anyway, imo. For me, the allure of getting Dickinson is to spread the risk of "not good enough to start" across two top-35-ish prospects in Williams and Dickinson instead of just one of them. Typically players ranked where Williams and Dickinson are ranked aren't even in the rotation at Duke their freshman year, so I'm somewhat nervous about counting on one to be a quality starter as a freshman. That said, if you can guarantee me that Mark Williams will provide 25 mpg of consistent (i.e. stays healthy, usually avoids foul trouble), quality center play, I'm not really that concerned about having a backup center. As mentioned, Jalen Johnson should be playing some small-ball 5 in finishing lineups anyway. Something like Steward - Moore - Baker - Brakefield - Johnson would be intriguing.

But, as mentioned, since we can't guarantee that from Mark, then let's spread the risk across two prospects if possible.

I'm not seeing this. Johnson isn't a knock down shooter, but he's actually got a nice shooting form, with a very high release, and he takes/makes a decent number of 3s. I don't see him being any worse than RJ Barrett as a perimeter shooter. I think he'll definitely play a lot at the 4, but he's basically the same size as a guy like Jayson Tatum or RJ Barrett, definitely not the type of guy we want banging with ACC centers down low.

Furthermore, he's basically a point forward. He's an athletic 6'8" forward with outstanding ball skills and passing vision. In fact, I think he will draw some Grant Hill comparisons next season. He's similar in size and skill set to Grant, who as far as I know, never played center at Duke. You don't want your center being at the top of the key or on the wing anyways, you want him in the post ready to catch and finish, fighting for offensive rebound positioning, or setting screens. Johnson's going to have the ball in his hands a lot next season, much like RJ Barrett did last season. I could see Brakefield MAYBE being the small ball 5/backup center, but he's essentially the same size as Johnson, although I have seen some places where Brakefield is listed at 230 pounds.

We're on the same page in that I'm also worried Mark Williams is probably going to be asked to start at center, which could be expecting too much from a 4-star freshman. Hopefully, he is much better than expected.

[golfinesquire]

So, I think there are a few reasons why (for better or worse) players have motivation to leave early that you're missing here in this first paragraph. It's much less when you retire or about adding years on at the end of your career, and much more about getting two shots at non-rookie-scale contracts while you're still in your prime, at your best as a player and able to command a big payday. Rookie contracts for first-rounders last 4 years (last two team option years). The second contract is the first time first-round-drafted guys hit the open market, and they'll often end up taking long deals (better security, etc.). That puts a lot of guys' third contracts in their eight or ninth year in the league. There's a HUGE difference in having that third contract come when you're 27/28 vs. 29/30. A four-year deal for a 27 year-old guy that ends when he's 31 is just way less risky for a team than one for a 29 year old guy that ends when he's 33. The payscales for those two age windows are drastically different on average in the NBA these days. So that's a pretty sizable incentive for guys to go do their on-the-job training in the NBA early as opposed to later. (Questions about how much money anyone really needs aside.)

Second, there's the security (and attendant perks) of being drafted higher, combined with the fact that NBA teams do take into account age as a major factor in both a player's likely development curve and in a player's performance against similar players in a class. There's a constant worry that some guys in high school/college who look really outrageously good and are older just are just bigger and stronger because they are older than many of the guys they are competing with in their class. (As a Timberwolves fan, I have an easy exhibit A here: Shabazz Muhammed.) Again, this is very much a "for better or worse" situation, but player age is a significant factor in how NBA teams evaluate how high a player should be drafted, and younger is just about always better for teams.

So you have a group of hypercompetitive athletes who are given monetary incentives to be picked higher, along with a possible national close-up moment on the draft show, and pretty demonstrable evidence that, if they're likely to be drafted high one year, there's a very real chance that they will be drafted lower in the next year (and possibly cost themselves a lot of money both short- and long-term in the process). And all of this to about getting to play in the best basketball league in the world with guys you've been watching your whole life? There are obviously individual cases where it makes sense for a guy to come back to college, but this is why in general I don't question when guys enter the draft as soon as possible.

Don't forget that the presence of the G league changes the calculation as well. Before the G league, players who needed time to develop had to do it in college. If they got to the league not ready to compete or unable to get ready to compete quickly, the clubs would let them go. Now the clubs can send players down and players who are not drafted can go the Quin Cook/Marquis
Bolden route and sign with a G league club and hope to get noticed. And, they are being paid for that development not developing for free (I am only talking about sheer dollars. I don't want this to get into a debate about whether and to what extent the players are getting a financial benefit for their time in school).

[DavidBenAkiva]

I'm not seeing this. Johnson isn't a knock down shooter, but he's actually got a nice shooting form, with a very high release, and he takes/makes a decent number of 3s. I don't see him being any worse than RJ Barrett as a perimeter shooter. I think he'll definitely play a lot at the 4, but he's basically the same size as a guy like Jayson Tatum or RJ Barrett, definitely not the type of guy we want banging with ACC centers down low.

Furthermore, he's basically a point forward. In fact, I think he will draw some Grant Hill comparisons next season. He's similar in size and skill set to Grant, who as far as I know, never played center at Duke. You don't want your center being at the top of the key or on the wing anyways, you want him in the post ready to catch and finish, fighting for offensive rebound positioning, or setting screens. Johnson's going to have the ball in his hands a lot next season, much like RJ Barrett did last season. I could see Brakefield MAYBE being the small ball 5/backup center, but he's essentially the same size as Johnson, although I have seen some places where Brakefield is listed at 230 pounds.

We're on the same page in that I'm also worried Mark Williams is probably going to be asked to start at center, which could be expecting too much from a 4-star freshman. Hopefully, he is much better than expected.

If we are going strictly off of recruiting rankings, Duke has been starting a 4-star freshman this season, Cassius Stanley, and he's looked just fine out on the court. Now, there are some 5-star freshmen that have been somewhat up and down as starters. So this is not to say that we should be unconcerned about the frontcourt next season.

At any rate, I think we're going to see some lineups without a true center next season and it will be just fine. There are a surprising number of high major teams that don't have one. Michigan State doesn't really have a center on their roster, for example. When it comes to most teams, I wonder if Duke would have trouble guarding a team that had a traditional center if both Brakefield and Johnson are out there. And I think that combo could work for about 10 or even 20 minutes a game by fronting and slapping at the ball, relying on superior hand-eye coordination, athleticism, and footspeed. They would struggle against the truly elite centers, like Vernon Carey, Jr., but there are so few of those in the college game.

I am just not concerned about the lack of a backup big man right now. The situation will works itself out by the spring or early summer.

[JasonEvans]

One other small thing to add to the 2020 big man conversation... while Mark Williams is a 4-star recruit, I suspect most would say he is a 5-star defensive player and a 3-star on offense. I know that may be a bit simplistic, but I merely mean to point out that Williams is known to excel on the defensive side of the floor... and that would seem to be the place where Duke would be most concerned about not having other big man options (at the moment).

[Saratoga2]

With Jalen Johnson being a poor shooter, he ideally should spend some time as a small-ball 5 anyway, imo. For me, the allure of getting Dickinson is to spread the risk of "not good enough to start" across two top-35-ish prospects in Williams and Dickinson instead of just one of them. Typically players ranked where Williams and Dickinson are ranked aren't even in the rotation at Duke their freshman year, so I'm somewhat nervous about counting on one to be a quality starter as a freshman. That said, if you can guarantee me that Mark Williams will provide 25 mpg of consistent (i.e. stays healthy, usually avoids foul trouble), quality center play, I'm not really that concerned about having a backup center. As mentioned, Jalen Johnson should be playing some small-ball 5 in finishing lineups anyway. Something like Steward - Moore - Baker - Brakefield - Johnson would be intriguing.

But, as mentioned, since we can't guarantee that from Mark, then let's spread the risk across two prospects if possible.

To me, the thought of having two true center sized guys next year trumps the problem of freshmen big men only playing 25 minutes. That can be due to physical conditioning, probability of fouling and possibility of being injured. Having two 35ish big men would mean they could push each other. I don't see a lot of competition at center in the 2020/2021 season with Carey and Javin both leaving.

[kAzE]

To me, the thought of having two true center sized guys next year trumps the problem of freshmen big men only playing 25 minutes. That can be due to physical conditioning, probability of fouling and possibility of being injured. Having two 35ish big men would mean they could push each other. I don't see a lot of competition at center in the 2020/2021 season with Carey and Javin both leaving.

I would be pretty shocked honestly if we started the season with Mark Williams as the only recruited player taller than 6'8". I think it would be a very bad idea to not have someone as at least injury insurance, whether it ends up being a grad transfer, a reclassification, or a 2020 player ranked in the 40s or 50s.

[MChambers]

In fact, I think he will draw some Grant Hill comparisons next season. He's similar in size and skill set to Grant, who as far as I know, never played center at Duke.

I'm pretty sure Grant played the 5 (in the sense that he defended the other team's biggest player) a few times, due to injuries to others. In fact, I'm pretty sure I fondly remember a game at GT where K gave Laettner a rest, making Hill the biggest player on the floor for Duke. But Grant was playing point that game, because Hurley had a broken foot. Cremins didn't realize and when Grant brought the ball into the halfcourt, GT was scrambling to figure out defensive assignments, and their center, Matt Geiger, ended up trying to stay with Grant. Grant drove the lane and drew a foul on Geiger, of course.

But your basic point is correct: Grant didn't play the 5 very often.

[proelitedota]

Henry Coleman at 6'8 240+ and BrakesField at 6'9 230+ will be fine at the center size wise. It's more the lack of experience / talent that I am worried about.

[SkyBrickey]

One other small thing to add to the 2020 big man conversation... while Mark Williams is a 4-star recruit, I suspect most would say he is a 5-star defensive player and a 3-star on offense. I know that may be a bit simplistic, but I merely mean to point out that Williams is known to excel on the defensive side of the floor... and that would seem to be the place where Duke would be most concerned about not having other big man options (at the moment).

I think this is spot on. And I think with his body type, Mark Williams can log 25-30 min a game as long as he stays out of foul trouble.

That said, I'm in the camp that we still need a second true center for backup duty, to compete with and push Williams in practice, and as insurance in case Williams is injured. We may elect to go small ball 10-20 min a game with Jalen Johnson or Matthew Hurt or someone else at the 5, but I don't think that negates the need to bring in another recruit or a grad transfer.

[jimsumner]

Henry Coleman at 6'8 240+ and BrakesField at 6'9 230+ will be fine at the center size wise. It's more the lack of experience / talent that I am worried about.

Duke listed Coleman at 6-7, 210 and Brakefield at 6-8, 215 in their signing-day media release.

FWIW.

https://goduke.com/news/2019/11/22/mens-basketball-duke-inks-deep-talented-2020-signing-class.aspx

[JasonEvans]

Duke listed Coleman at 6-7, 210 and Brakefield at 6-8, 215 in their signing-day media release.

FWIW.

https://goduke.com/news/2019/11/22/mens-basketball-duke-inks-deep-talented-2020-signing-class.aspx

Yeah, Henry Coleman is NOT 240 pounds.
https://www.zagsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/IMG_0494.jpg

[azzefkram]

Duke listed Coleman at 6-7, 210 and Brakefield at 6-8, 215 in their signing-day media release.

FWIW.

https://goduke.com/news/2019/11/22/mens-basketball-duke-inks-deep-talented-2020-signing-class.aspx

WW? Jenny Craig? I'm pretty sure over the past week or so I found whatever lbs they may have lost.

[Pghdukie]

Has Duke shown any interest in Terrence Williams, the 6'6" PF that de-committed from Georgetown recently. I know they kicked the tires early in the recruiting process.

[proelitedota]

Duke listed Coleman at 6-7, 210 and Brakefield at 6-8, 215 in their signing-day media release.

FWIW.

https://goduke.com/news/2019/11/22/mens-basketball-duke-inks-deep-talented-2020-signing-class.aspx

Hmm I remember reading Coleman being 6'7 238.

https://jerryratcliffe.com/virginia-top-50-prospect-henry-coleman-announces-decision-timeline/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwjDkInP9qHmAhVWu54KHb0DCt8QFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3D0SFRZPqDxnpBmmtEJNgt&ampcf=1

I am extrapolating their height and weight upon enrollment. Our recruits usually gain / lose up to 20 lbs between commitment and season opening.

[budwom]

I know we've quibbled about heights and weights before, and for sure some of those listed, even on the roster, are at times just plain wrong...but can Hurt really weigh 214?

[Reddevil]

I know we've quibbled about heights and weights before, and for sure some of those listed, even on the roster, are at times just plain wrong...but can Hurt really weigh 214?

Hmm, I'd say he weighs about 5 cinderblocks.

[SkyBrickey]

6'9", 214 lbs is very thin. But if anything, he does look to me like he might have lost weight since the start of the season. I'd trade metabolisms with him for a couple of months.

[budwom]

Hmm, I'd say he weighs about 5 cinderblocks.

on a similar note, the Brits would say he weighs 15 stones, not sure how that translates into cinderblocks...speaking of which, is that a term not used in the South?
I went looking for some near Wilmington NC one time, got a blank look on the term, though ceee-ment block did merit recognition...

[jimsumner]

Hmm I remember reading Coleman being 6'7 238.

https://jerryratcliffe.com/virginia-top-50-prospect-henry-coleman-announces-decision-timeline/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwjDkInP9qHmAhVWu54KHb0DCt8QFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3D0SFRZPqDxnpBmmtEJNgt&ampcf=1

I am extrapolating their height and weight upon enrollment. Our recruits usually gain / lose up to 20 lbs between commitment and season opening.

Won't concern me at all. Next year I'll be living in the lap of luxury on a tropical island.

Of course, I'm extrapolating winning the lottery.

Note to self; buy a lottery ticket.

[SkyBrickey]

Yeah, not sure where this 20lb extrapolation comes from.

I watched Wendell Carter pretty closely in HS and at Duke. He had a great frame for adding weight and he definitely turned some baby fat into muscle between his senior year of HS and freshman year at Duke. But I'd be surprised if he added even 10lbs...

[kAzE]

One other small thing to add to the 2020 big man conversation... while Mark Williams is a 4-star recruit, I suspect most would say he is a 5-star defensive player and a 3-star on offense. I know that may be a bit simplistic, but I merely mean to point out that Williams is known to excel on the defensive side of the floor... and that would seem to be the place where Duke would be most concerned about not having other big man options (at the moment).

Does it really work that way? I can't say for sure one way or the other, since I haven't' seen enough of Mark Williams' game to have an opinion on his ability, but if he were truly a 5* talent on defense, especially as a center, I would probably rate him as a 5 star overall. Who cares if your center has no offensive game, if he's elite defensively? All you need your center to do is grab rebounds, dunk the ball, protect the rim, and set screens. If you're great at those things, you're probably already a 5* recruit. There's tons of top tier centers, even in the NBA who can't play any offense, but are valuable for their defensive ability.

So if he's really that good on defense, I think he would just be a 5* overall. Or, maybe you're right, and he will end up as a 5* by the end of this season. I would love to be pleasantly surprised. Cassius Stanley is obviously a 4* player who has wildly exceeded expectations.

[jv001]

Does it really work that way? I can't say for sure one way or the other, since I haven't' seen enough of Mark Williams' game to have an opinion on his ability, but if he were truly a 5* talent on defense, especially as a center, I would probably rate him as a 5 star overall. Who cares if your center has no offensive game, if he's elite defensively? All you need your center to do is grab rebounds, dunk the ball, protect the rim, and set screens. If you're great at those things, you're probably already a 5* recruit. There's tons of top tier centers, even in the NBA who can't play any offense, but are valuable for their defensive ability.

So if he's really that good on defense, I think he would just be a 5* overall. Or, maybe you're right, and he will end up as a 5* by the end of this season. I would love to be pleasantly surprised. Cassius Stanley is obviously a 4* player who has wildly exceeded expectations.

kaze, do you think centers are rated on how they will perform in the pros? From what I've read on the NBA thread, the new pro center is able to stretch the floor and make 3 pointers. I really don't have an idea because I don't watch many NBA games. . GoDuke!

[JasonEvans]

For all the hand-wringing over Duke's bigs next season, last night's game was pretty illuminating. There were long stretches of that game where Jack White was the biggest Dukie on the floor and it was not uncommon for Wendell Moore or Joey Baker to be the next biggest dude out there. I get that Va Tech is a small team that eschews having anyone play in the post but it was still interesting to see how effective this Duke team a team can be with zero post players in the lineup (White may be a nominal PF, but he is not someone you feed on the blocks).

-Jason "worth noting, I see very little chance Duke would play such a lineup against, for example, Kansas's many bigs... but still it is worth noting" Evans

[TheOldBattleship]

For all the hand-wringing over Duke's bigs next season, last night's game was pretty illuminating. There were long stretches of that game where Jack White was the biggest Dukie on the floor and it was not uncommon for Wendell Moore or Joey Baker to be the next biggest dude out there. I get that Va Tech is a small team that eschews having anyone play in the post but it was still interesting to see how effective this Duke team a team can be with zero post players in the lineup (White may be a nominal PF, but he is not someone you feed on the blocks).

-Jason "worth noting, I see very little chance Duke would play such a lineup against, for example, Kansas's many bigs... but still it is worth noting" Evans

Very much agree here. White is a great example of the type of player who is perfect in these kinds of lineups, too: he can space the floor and play more or less completely as a wing offensively, but he's a terrific interior defender who can really dominate the glass and the paint against anybody but the biggest bigs (as Jason mentions, you wouldn't run him out there against Azubuike, say, but otherwise he can generally hold his own). And it does seem like our next class has a couple of guys who might be able to fit that model.

[kshepinthehouse]

Very much agree here. White is a great example of the type of player who is perfect in these kinds of lineups, too: he can space the floor and play more or less completely as a wing offensively, but he's a terrific interior defender who can really dominate the glass and the paint against anybody but the biggest bigs (as Jason mentions, you wouldn't run him out there against Azubuike, say, but otherwise he can generally hold his own). And it does seem like our next class has a couple of guys who might be able to fit that model.

Interestingly he had zero rebounds last night playing that role.

[TheOldBattleship]

Interestingly he had zero rebounds last night playing that role.

I'll have to go back and watch some of those possessions to be sure, but my sense watching was that he was doing some "Brook Lopezing," where, since he was playing the role of the big, his job was to box out, tie up as many of the Tech rebounders as possible, and clear space for other guys to fly in and chase the ball. Also, in the second half when we were going smaller, it seemed like we were forcing much wilder shots than the layups they were getting with one of our more traditional bigs in. That may just be my faulty memory of those possessions, though. (We need a resident film study person to cut us tape for these cases! Think we can persuade Kevin Cullen to join the board and weigh in?)

[chrishoke]

Kuminiga?

https://balldurham.com/2019/12/06/duke-basketball-add-no-1-2020-class/

[DavidBenAkiva]

Can we stop linking to that website? They've been off on so many recruits its embarrassing for Duke fans. Total speculation.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Evan Daniels on Dickinson’s pending decision... says he’s getting close, may be down to two schools but none stand out from the others very significantly.

https://247sports.com/college/basketball/recruiting/Article/Hunter-Dickinson-Notre-Dame-Duke-Florida-State-Michigan-Decision-140004962/Amp/

[duke74]

Can we stop linking to that website? They've been off on so many recruits its embarrassing for Duke fans. Total speculation.

And was very nasty about Javin a week or so. I unfollowed on Twitter.

[Troublemaker]

Blue Devil Nation‏ @BlueDevilNation (https://twitter.com/BlueDevilNation) 8h8 hours ago (https://twitter.com/BlueDevilNation/status/1203531000564846592)
Future Duke guard Jeremy Roach led Paul VI (VA) to a 67-56 win over IMG Academy while Mike Krzyzewski looked on at the National H.S. Festival.Roach had 16 in the win and Mark Williams 16 pts, 12 rebs in the loss. Jalen Johnson was a DNP


Adam Rowe‏ @AdamRoweTDD (https://twitter.com/AdamRoweTDD) 9h9 hours ago (https://twitter.com/AdamRoweTDD/status/1203516021195362304)
"Mark Williams was awesome. By far the best I’ve seen him play. He’s taken a major step forward. "Jeremy Roach shot the ball, played with pace and made good decisions. He looked like the Jeremy I knew pre-injury." -- @EvanDaniels (https://twitter.com/EvanDaniels) on #Duke (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Duke?src=hash)'s two signees:



Jack Herron‏ @jwherron10 (https://twitter.com/jwherron10) 8h8 hours ago (https://twitter.com/jwherron10/status/1203521925185712128)
FINAL
Paul VI 67
IMG 56

What a game!! Co-MVPs 2021 Trevor Keels and 2020 Jeremy Roach with huge games for PVI.
2020 Mark Williams with 16P 12R 6B for IMG. Will join Roach at Duke next year


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELPEzq7XsAAeeLV.jpg:large

[Bob Green]

Jeremy Roach 1 - 7 on 2PT FGA. Did any board members actually watch the game? Comments?

[chrishoke]

Can we stop linking to that website? They've been off on so many recruits its embarrassing for Duke fans. Total speculation.

Tx. My bad.

[devilnfla]

Tx. My bad.

After looking at M. Williams stats I'm less hyped than the person who said this was his best performance. Rebounds were not off the chart, didn't make it to the free throw line and 4 turnovers. I hope he's had better performances.

Nevermind. Was looking at the player directly above in the boxscore. I'm loving the 6 blocks and 12 rebounds.

[Dukehk]

Blue Devil Nation‏ @BlueDevilNation (https://twitter.com/BlueDevilNation) 8h8 hours ago (https://twitter.com/BlueDevilNation/status/1203531000564846592)
Future Duke guard Jeremy Roach led Paul VI (VA) to a 67-56 win over IMG Academy while Mike Krzyzewski looked on at the National H.S. Festival.Roach had 16 in the win and Mark Williams 16 pts, 12 rebs in the loss. Jalen Johnson was a DNP


Adam Rowe‏ @AdamRoweTDD (https://twitter.com/AdamRoweTDD) 9h9 hours ago (https://twitter.com/AdamRoweTDD/status/1203516021195362304)
"Mark Williams was awesome. By far the best I’ve seen him play. He’s taken a major step forward. "Jeremy Roach shot the ball, played with pace and made good decisions. He looked like the Jeremy I knew pre-injury." -- @EvanDaniels (https://twitter.com/EvanDaniels) on #Duke (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Duke?src=hash)'s two signees:



Jack Herron‏ @jwherron10 (https://twitter.com/jwherron10) 8h8 hours ago (https://twitter.com/jwherron10/status/1203521925185712128)
FINAL
Paul VI 67
IMG 56

What a game!! Co-MVPs 2021 Trevor Keels and 2020 Jeremy Roach with huge games for PVI.
2020 Mark Williams with 16P 12R 6B for IMG. Will join Roach at Duke next year


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELPEzq7XsAAeeLV.jpg:large


That IMG academy team is scary stacked. I'm surprised they lost! That Diabate kid is an absolute beast. He might be top 3-5 when its all said and done next year.

Mark Williams is a human eraser. If he stays four years at Duke he might break some blocked shots records.

[lotusland]

That IMG academy team is scary stacked. I'm surprised they lost! That Diabate kid is an absolute beast. He might be top 3-5 when its all said and done next year.

Mark Williams is a human eraser. If he stays four years at Duke he might break some blocked shots records.

Who does the Landlord report to? Mark Williams = Zoning Commissioner??

[DavidBenAkiva]

Thanks for posting those tweets, Troublemaker. It's great to see that more than one guy was watching and seeing Roach and Williams play well.

The shooting for Roach is encouraging. 3-6 from 3 and made all 5 of his FT attempts. I expect that the lack of explosion as he recovers from the ACL tear is part of the reason Roach struggled inside the rim. That's just speculation as I didn't see the game or know where the shots were coming from. Still, no TOs. If he shot the ball better inside the arc, it would have been a great game against a really good high school opponent in IMG.

Very encouraged to hear that Williams was contributing in all facets of the game.

[UrinalCake]

Great to hear that Roach has recovered from his injury and is back into form. It’s got to be hard for a kid that young to go through rehab and recover. Sounds like he and Williams are on the rise, I’m still not sure what to expect out of a team that will be such a complete overhaul and reliant on non-elite freshmen, but there’s definitely talent.

[dm9e24]

Great to hear that Roach has recovered from his injury and is back into form. It’s got to be hard for a kid that young to go through rehab and recover. Sounds like he and Williams are on the rise, I’m still not sure what to expect out of a team that will be such a complete overhaul and reliant on non-elite freshmen, but there’s definitely talent.

Are you talking about next year's Duke team?

Alex, Joey and Jordan will be on that completely overhauled team. 50/50 chance that Moore and Hurt will also be on that team. And Jalen Johnson will be as good as any freshman on this years team. Could well be different from the 5 out/5 in teams that we have seen.

[Dukehk]

Williams is going to be a defensive stud next year! He basically blocked everything.

Jeremy Roach is also a fearless PG leader. I think this kid is going to be very very good from day 1. IMG were so much bigger than Paul VI but Roach and co. never backed down and showed alot of grit and toughness.

We should probably also be looking at Trevor Keels. He is probably going to rise in rankings (No. 35 in 2021) and can flat out score the basketball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lbx02hsLXc

[kAzE]

Williams is going to be a defensive stud next year! He basically blocked everything.

While it's nice to see our recruits playing well, it's probably best to not get overexcited just yet. Not trying to be a downer or anything, but it's probably worth pointing out that Marques Bolden, who was a consensus top 20 recruit, averaged 23.6 Points, 10.2 rebounds, and 2.6 blocked shots as a high school senior, and it took him a long time to adjust to playing at the D-1 level.

Hopefully Mark Williams can adjust more quickly (and has MUCH better luck with his health) when he suits up for Duke, but it might be a tad early to declare that he'll be a defensive stud next year.

[Indoor66]

While it's nice to see our recruits playing well, it's probably best to not get overexcited just yet. Not trying to be a downer or anything, but it's probably worth pointing out that Marques Bolden, who was a consensus top 20 recruit, averaged 23.6 Points, 10.2 rebounds, and 2.6 blocked shots as a high school senior, and it took him a long time to adjust to playing at the D-1 level.

Hopefully Mark Williams can adjust more quickly (and has MUCH better luck with his health) when he suits up for Duke, but it might be a tad early to declare that he'll be a defensive stud next year.

Change your name to Debbie Downer! :D This is DBR. Every fresh new face is a stud until he isn't. Get with the program. :cool:

[mkirsh]

Jeremy Roach 1 - 7 on 2PT FGA. Did any board members actually watch the game? Comments?

Looks like Mark Williams blocked 3 of them and altered 2 others. Future Duke on Future Duke Crime!

[jv001]

While it's nice to see our recruits playing well, it's probably best to not get overexcited just yet. Not trying to be a downer or anything, but it's probably worth pointing out that Marques Bolden, who was a consensus top 20 recruit, averaged 23.6 Points, 10.2 rebounds, and 2.6 blocked shots as a high school senior, and it took him a long time to adjust to playing at the D-1 level.

Hopefully Mark Williams can adjust more quickly (and has MUCH better luck with his health) when he suits up for Duke, but it might be a tad early to declare that he'll be a defensive stud next year.

And let's hope that Williams or any of our incoming freshmen don't have the early on injuries that Marques had when he got to Duke. GoDuke!

[Dukehk]

Jeremy Roach drops 27pts, 9rbs and 3asts in a win over Word of God (led by Isaiah Todd)

He was unstoppable getting to the hoop. Clearly taking back that mantle as the best PG in the country. He probably would be top 10 were it not for the ACL injury causing him to miss last year. This kid is a top PG prospect and as good a slasher as Kyrie or Jay Will in HS.

Him and Trevor Keels were unstoppable. If Max Christie isn't committing soon we should really take a look at Keels. He is a lights out scorer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzJ-j1kMhO4

9997

[JasonEvans]

Jeremy Roach drops 27pts, 9rbs and 3asts in a win over Word of God (led by Isaiah Todd)

He was unstoppable getting to the hoop. Clearly taking back that mantle as the best PG in the country. He probably would be top 10 were it not for the ACL injury causing him to miss last year. This kid is a top PG prospect and as good a slasher as Kyrie or Jay Will in HS.

Here is a highlight reel of his finishes in the lane last night... he truly has remarkable touch around the bucket.
https://twitter.com/Samad_Hines/status/1203831231097507840

[mattman91]

Here is a highlight reel of his finishes in the lane last night... he truly has remarkable touch around the bucket.
https://twitter.com/Samad_Hines/status/1203831231097507840

His drives/finishes remind me of Kyrie. From what I've read he isn't nearly the shooter that Irving was in high school.

[SkyBrickey]

Really excited at this progress. I have been thinking that Goldwire or even Moore might start the season as our starting PG. But I’m not thinking that so much now....

[kAzE]

Some nice footage of the Paul VI/IMG game, with a good chunk of the highlights belonging to Mark Williams and Jeremy Roach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxTTiR6UHkQ

Here's some better quality footage of the Paul VI/Word of God game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzJ-j1kMhO4

I'm not sure I'd compare Roach to Kyrie, with Kyrie being arguably the greatest ball handler ever, and also arguably the greatest finisher in the paint as a small guard ever. You can see in the IMG game how Roach can struggle at the rim against lengthy defenders.

But with that said, Roach looks really good. He's very athletic, and is looking like he's well past the ACL injury from his sophomore season (which is commonly known to take 2 years to regain full health). I think there is a good chance he could be a one and done type of prospect. I think he's quite underrated by the scouting services presently, likely due to the injury. He does not seem to me like a mid 20s type of guy. He should definitely be in the teens or higher.

Also, I really like what I saw from Mark Williams in this game, too. He's definitely more mobile than I thought, and he's got a nice motor, which is probably the most important thing you want from your center.

I think both of these guys will eventually rise in the rankings. Really hope they both stay healthy.

[jv001]

Roach looks good in the video but I'll wait to see him in a Duke uniform before comparing him with Kyrie, who I think is the best ball handler I saw at Duke. One thing I liked about Kyrie was his ability to finish with his left hand as easy as his right. Of course Bobby Hurley was no slouch either. GoDuke!

[mr. synellinden]

Roach looks good in the video but I'll wait to see him in a Duke uniform before comparing him with Kyrie, who I think is the best ball handler I saw at Duke. One thing I liked about Kyrie was his ability to finish with his left hand as easy as his right. Of course Bobby Hurley was no slouch either. GoDuke!

Yeah - I completely agree about Kyrie and the left hand. And that was what was most exciting about those video highlights. It looked to me like Roach is comfortable using his left hand to finish at the rim.

[MChambers]

Yeah - I completely agree about Kyrie and the left hand. And that was what was most exciting about those video highlights. It looked to me like Roach is comfortable using his left hand to finish at the rim.

Is Roach amphibious?

[jv001]

Is Roach amphibious?

No but Yogi and Shackelford were. :cool:GoDuke!

[Rich]

Roach looks good in the video but I'll wait to see him in a Duke uniform before comparing him with Kyrie, who I think is the best ball handler I saw at Duke. One thing I liked about Kyrie was his ability to finish with his left hand as easy as his right. Of course Bobby Hurley was no slouch either. GoDuke!

There's no comparison IMHO between a freshman Kyrie and a freshman Hurley. Kyrie was completely dominant before his injury and could single handedly take over a game, while it took Bobby until his junior and senior seasons to turn into the player we all remember. I remember him as being a bit out of control freshman year.

[jv001]

There's no comparison IMHO between a freshman Kyrie and a freshman Hurley. Kyrie was completely dominant before his injury and could single handedly take over a game, while it took Bobby until his junior and senior seasons to turn into the player we all remember. I remember him as being a bit out of control freshman year.

I agree freshmen Bobby Hurley was no where near Kyrie as a freshman. I think it was Bobby's freshman year that Coach K sat him down to watch video of his play. Play that was not good to say the least. Kyrie was the best ball handler I've seen. To be able to dribble in a crowded lane like he does is simply amazing. We were blessed to have him, even for just what 11 games. He may make some outlandish statements to the media but he's Duke all the way.
GoDuke!

[TruBlu]

I agree freshmen Bobby Hurley was no where near Kyrie as a freshman. I think it was Bobby's freshman year that Coach K sat him down to watch video of his play. Play that was not good to say the least. Kyrie was the best ball handler I've seen. To be able to dribble in a crowded lane like he does is simply amazing. We were blessed to have him, even for just what 11 games. He may make some outlandish statements to the media but he's Duke all the way.
GoDuke!

I remember Coach K setting Hurley down to watch videos of his pouting, whining and general attitude more than his playing.

But, yes. Kyrie was better as a freshman, although it was a smaller sample size for Kyrie. 🤬

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

I remember Coach K setting Hurley down to watch videos of his pouting, whining and general attitude more than his playing.

But, yes. Kyrie was better as a freshman, although it was a smaller sample size for Kyrie. ��

Hurley helped lead his team to the NCAA championship game as a freshman point guard. Much greater accomplishment than anything Kyrie was able to do at Duke.

[jimsumner]

Hurley helped lead his team to the NCAA championship game as a freshman point guard. Much greater accomplishment than anything Kyrie was able to do at Duke.

K has stated on several occasions that he thinks Duke would have gone undefeated in 2011 had Irving been healthy all season.

Hurley was a truly great college point guard in 1991, 1992 and 1993. But as a freshman in 1990 he shot 35 percent from the field and established a still-standing ACC record with 166 turnovers.

There's no question in my mind that freshman Kyrie Irving was a better college player than freshman Bobby Hurley. But the contexts are so different that it makes any meaningful discussion virtually meaningless.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

K has stated on several occasions that he thinks Duke would have gone undefeated in 2011 had Irving been healthy all season.

Hurley was a truly great college point guard in 1991, 1992 and 1993. But as a freshman in 1990 he shot 35 percent from the field and established a still-standing ACC record with 166 turnovers.

There's no question in my mind that freshman Kyrie Irving was a better college player than freshman Bobby Hurley. But the contexts are so different that it makes any meaningful discussion virtually meaningless.
I have meaningfully meaningless discussions with my teenage son all the time...:D

[907bluedevils]

Back to the relevant topic at hand, as mentioned in the 2021 thread Duke has offered Charles Bediako, a top 30ish prospect in 2021 but a strong re-class candidate.

[Indoor66]

I have meaningfully meaningless discussions with my teenage son all the time...:D

Don't worry. He will grow up and there will be some meaningless discussions. 🤣

[Pghdukie]

I have meaningfully meaningless discussions with my teenage son all the time...:D

I dont know where I've been, and I just been there !

[roywhite]

Yeah, Hurley shot poorly and had a lot of turnovers as a freshman, but also helped Duke win a lot of games and reach the National Championship game.

He had 288 assists, nearly the most of his 4 seasons (289 the following year) and a career best 67 steals. He was daring on the court, made plays that other guards wouldn't attempt.

[sagegrouse]

I remember Coach K setting Hurley down to watch videos of his pouting, whining and general attitude more than his playing.

But, yes. Kyrie was better as a freshman, although it was a smaller sample size for Kyrie. 🤬

Although not, I believe, his freshman year. And it was his appearance, not necessarily his inner attitude. "This is what you look like out there."

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Although not, I believe, his freshman year. And it was his appearance, not necessarily his inner attitude. "This is what you look like out there."
Hurley whined more his freshman year than half the dean dome, and it was all his facial expressions on tv. The coaches showed him a composite video of his actions and that pretty much cured him! Brilliant tactic. :cool:

[BD80]

…

Hurley was a truly great college point guard in 1991, 1992 and 1993. But as a freshman in 1990 he shot 35 percent from the field and established a still-standing ACC record with 166 turnovers.

...


My recollection of freshman Bobby was that he threw the most errant passes, … and I don't mean the greatest quantity of errant passes.


I believe he knocked out at least one cheerleader and a few unwary spectators with "misguided" missiles.

[UrinalCake]

Back to the relevant topic at hand, as mentioned in the 2021 thread Duke has offered Charles Bediako, a top 30ish prospect in 2021 but a strong re-class candidate.

Kind of curious why we would want a 4-star power forward to reclassify when we already have Coleman and Brakefield coming in, not to mention Johnson.

[kAzE]

Kind of curious why we would want a 4-star power forward to reclassify when we already have Coleman and Brakefield coming in, not to mention Johnson.

We need another center. Mark Williams is the only recruited player on the current 2020-21 roster taller than 6'8".

Bediako is a 6'11" Canadian center with long arms, very different player than Brakefield (6'8") or Coleman (6'6"). The depth certainly wouldn't hurt, and he's supposedly developing very quickly.

This is a guess, but I don't think Coach K would offer him right now unless he believes that Bediako may turn out to be a much better player than his current ranking would indicate.

[Barnstormer]

Any word from Hunter Dickinson?

[SkyBrickey]

Kind of curious why we would want a 4-star power forward to reclassify when we already have Coleman and Brakefield coming in, not to mention Johnson.

I believe I'm right that when Mark Williams signed he said he's going to now help recruit Hunter Dickinson.

I loved hearing that attitude.

Even he recognizes that we need another big guy to push Williams in practice and give us another option on the interior taller than 6'8".

[scottdude8]

Any word from Hunter Dickinson?

According to my go-to Michigan fansite, mgoblog.com (https://mgoblog.com/content/hoops-recruiting-has-intel-dc), Dickinson could be deciding soon. The scuttlebutt is Michigan and Florida State are his top two, but he's been very quiet about his recruiting so it could still be anyone's game.


Top-40 center Hunter Dickinson is still very much a priority for the Wolverine staff. Originally expected to commit in November but hold off on putting pen to paper, the DeMatha Catholic senior now appears ready to pull the trigger in the near future via his quotes to Corey Evans.

“The reason why I didn’t sign early is because, if I did sign, it would have been a rush. I think giving it another few weeks was really beneficial for me and now I feel like I am pretty close to a decision,” Dickinson said before plotting a timetable for his commitment. “I am hoping within the month.”

One can’t help but to see Dickinson’s response concerning Michigan in that piece as favorable. My sources tell me this is still a Michigan/Florida State battle and the Wolverines are on solid ground. The Crystal Ball and Future Forecast still heavily favor Michigan for what its worth.

[ChillinDuke]

According to my go-to Michigan fansite, mgoblog.com (https://mgoblog.com/content/hoops-recruiting-has-intel-dc), Dickinson could be deciding soon. The scuttlebutt is Michigan and Florida State are his top two, but he's been very quiet about his recruiting so it could still be anyone's game.

Could this be one of those times where the "close-to-the-vest" recruitment ends up breaking in our favor, surprisingly?

- Chillin

[MChambers]

Could this be one of those times where the "close-to-the-vest" recruitment ends up breaking in our favor, surprisingly?

- Chillin

Like with Zion?

[scottdude8]

Could this be one of those times where the "close-to-the-vest" recruitment ends up breaking in our favor, surprisingly?

- Chillin

It wouldn’t shock me. Honestly, the way Duke is using Vernon and Michigan (and Juwan Howard) is using Jon Teske, both places have to look pretty damn enticing for a throw-back, back to the basket big.

My feeling is the longer Dickinson takes to commit, the more likely K is swooping in.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Hunter Dickinson and DeMatha played on ESPNU last night. During the telecast, the announcers noted that Dickinson will make his college choice next week. Adam Zagoria has the story (https://www.zagsblog.com/2019/12/12/2020-big-man-hunter-dickinson-to-announce-soon/) as well as some quotes from the young man. Zagoria texted with Dickinson after the game and confirmed that he does indeed plan on committing next week.

[dukejim1]

Not an impressive performance by Dickinson, but Montverde is astoundingly deep this year. If they can share minutes effectively it could be another championship for Kevin Boyle.

[UrinalCake]

I don’t think this has been mentioned yet, according to Twitter Dickinson is announcing next week. Michigan, Duke, Notre Dame, and FSU are the four on his list (in no particular order).

[Son of Jarhead]

I don’t think this has been mentioned yet, according to Twitter Dickinson is announcing next week. Michigan, Duke, Notre Dame, and FSU are the four on his list (in no particular order).

It had been. Two posts prior.

Nanny-nanny-boo-boo!

(Sorry, I'm in a mood today. I'll be going now. Bartender!)

[MarkD83]

It had been. Two posts prior.

Nanny-nanny-boo-boo!

(Sorry, I'm in a mood today. I'll be going now. Bartender!)

Do you moonlight as a lawyer for unc by any chance?

[Steven43]

I don’t think this has been mentioned yet, according to Twitter Dickinson is announcing next week. Michigan, Duke, Notre Dame, and FSU are the four on his list (in no particular order).

Does he want to play football 🏈 in college, too?

[Son of Jarhead]

Do you moonlight as a lawyer for unc by any chance?

No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[BD80]

Do you moonlight as a lawyer for unc by any chance?


No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Did you get a free rental car from a guy named "Fats?"

[AZLA]

My recollection of freshman Bobby was that he threw the most errant passes, … and I don't mean the greatest quantity of errant passes.


I believe he knocked out at least one cheerleader and a few unwary spectators with "misguided" missiles.

Calvin “Nuke” LaLoosh!

[DavidBenAkiva]

Evan Daniels has made his Crystal Ball pick for Hunter Dickinson, and he's predicting the big man will commit to Michigan.

This is not surprising but I was still not convinced that Duke wouldn't win out in the end. It didn't seem like anyone had good insights about what Dickinson was thinking.

I fully expect to see another name emerge soon from the Class of 2020 or perhaps a transfer. Other than that, not much more to discuss with the Class of 2020 with 6 committed players already with LOI's signed.

[Dukehk]

When is Hunter making his decision? Seems to be dragging on for a while.

With his GF also heading to michigan, I don't think we stand much of a chance?

Assuming thats why we offered that Bediako kid who is a likely reclass. Maybe even get Kuminga if we're lucky!

[proelitedota]

With his GF also heading to michigan, I don't think we stand much of a chance?

My advice to any young man is to never follow your girl around.

[JasonEvans]

Dickinson is 91% to Michigan on the 247 crystal ball... the other 9% is "undecided." Among the Michigan pickers are all the prominent Duke recruiting gurus.

Should he pick anyone but the Wolverines, this will be one of those shockers that no one saw coming.

[WVDUKEFAN]

Im not saying he won’t choose Michigan, but I think he’s still debating, or he would have announced it by now.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Im not saying he won’t choose Michigan, but I think he’s still debating, or he would have announced it by now.

Hunter Dickinson announced via twitter that he will be announcing his college choice on Friday, December 20th. Sounds like he has made up his mind and most everyone expects him to pick Michigan.

[plimnko]

Hunter Dickinson announced via twitter that he will be announcing his college choice on Friday, December 20th. Sounds like he has made up his mind and most everyone expects him to pick Michigan.

on a scale of 0-10, how important of a recruit is dickinson really?.......he's no zion. if k misses on a recruit, it's been my experience duke seems to do pretty well regardless.

[dukebluesincebirth]

on a scale of 0-10, how important of a recruit is dickinson really?....he's no zion. if k misses on a recruit, it's been my experience duke seems to do pretty well regardless.

K has also never really been bothered by Michigan's recruiting successes... I'm sure juwan howard remembers.:D

[SkyBrickey]

on a scale of 0-10, how important of a recruit is dickinson really?....he's no zion. if k misses on a recruit, it's been my experience duke seems to do pretty well regardless.

I think Mark Williams is ahead of Hunter in terms of defense and rebounding, so I don't see him as a potential starter. And even with Hunter on the roster, we might go small ball for 15-20 minutes a game with Hurt or Johnson or Brakefield playing the 5. But we need front court depth at a minimum for competitive practices and to back up Williams in case of an injury. If it's not Hunter, I do think we've got to land another big guy from somewhere. I expect the coaches have a plan B, C, and D and that we'll start to see that in motion if Hunter chooses Michigan as predicted.

[Saratoga2]

I think Mark Williams is ahead of Hunter in terms of defense and rebounding, so I don't see him as a potential starter. And even with Hunter on the roster, we might go small ball for 15-20 minutes a game with Hurt or Johnson or Brakefield playing the 5. But we need front court depth at a minimum for competitive practices and to back up Williams in case of an injury. If it's not Hunter, I do think we've got to land another big guy from somewhere. I expect the coaches have a plan B, C, and D and that we'll start to see that in motion if Hunter chooses Michigan as predicted.

Freshman centers tend to play 25 minutes or less so there is room on a team for 2, while still providing them with solid minutes. There is still a chance to have two good young centers and that would be in Dukes interest, even if one turns out not to be Hunter.

[budwom]

He's so slow that he announced today but the words won't get here until some time tomorrow. (he announced for Mishygan).

[brevity]

He's so slow that he announced today but the words won't get here until some time tomorrow. (he announced for Mishygan).

Here's his tweet (https://twitter.com/H_Dickinson24/status/1208115343102746625) where he makes a video announcement. One's level of appreciation depends greatly on the school he chose, so I guess it's the kind of video only a Michigan fan would love.

[devildeac]

Here's his tweet (https://twitter.com/H_Dickinson24/status/1208115343102746625) where he makes a video announcement. One's level of appreciation depends greatly on the school he chose, so I guess it's the kind of video only a Michigan fan would love.

Or, as they post/write in Columbus:

Xichigan

[heyman25]

I think Mark Williams is ahead of Hunter in terms of defense and rebounding, so I don't see him as a potential starter. And even with Hunter on the roster, we might go small ball for 15-20 minutes a game with Hurt or Johnson or Brakefield playing the 5. But we need front court depth at a minimum for competitive practices and to back up Williams in case of an injury. If it's not Hunter, I do think we've got to land another big guy from somewhere. I expect the coaches have a plan B, C, and D and that we'll start to see that in motion if Hunter chooses Michigan as predicted.
There must be diamond in the rough that is not a pro in Croatia, Slovenia,or Serbia. Luka Dončić is only 20.He has been a pro for 3 or 4 years.Grad transfer I would be happy with too to give Mark Williams a backup.

[Kedsy]

Grad transfer I would be happy with too to give Mark Williams a backup.

Why would a grad transfer who is good enough to play meaningful minutes at Duke be willing to take a backup role in his final college season?

[roywhite]

Why would a grad transfer who is good enough to play meaningful minutes at Duke be willing to take a backup role in his final college season?

Possibly:

Play for the GOAT?
Have a chance to play for a national championship?
Care about education?
Want to compete and get better?

[heyman25]

Another factor. Duke Basketball has one of the highest ratings for Television. The grad transfer could get exposure that may have not received. Just want Duke to win as much as possible.

[mstein34]

It’s being rumored that 2020 Duke Recruit Jalen Johnson is no longer enrolled at IMG Academy.

[Kedsy]

Possibly:

Play for the GOAT?
Have a chance to play for a national championship?
Care about education?
Want to compete and get better?


Another factor. Duke Basketball has one of the highest ratings for Television. The grad transfer could get exposure that may have not received. Just want Duke to win as much as possible.

You're talking about a 21 or 22-year-old kid. He's already graduated from another school, so education in the form of a one-year graduate program is probably not all that different than he would get elsewhere. And a chance to play for a championship is a chimera -- in the past 15 years, Duke has played in two Final Fours. There almost have to be other teams that might similarly compete for a championship that could offer more playing time than we're talking about here.

A lot of these guys are good but not next-level good and this is their last chance to compete at this level. It's their final year, so improvement/getting better doesn't do much for them unless it would become a stepping stone to the NBA. Except it won't because we're talking about someone accepting a backup role, probably playing 10 to 15 mpg, and someone in that circumstance would likely not be drafted. Same thing for exposure - what good does it do someone who'll be getting a desk job or playing in Europe next season?

What's that leave from the above? Playing for Coach K? I suppose that might be an attraction, but for most of these kids it wouldn't match the attraction of playing starter's minutes at another high level program (or even mid-level program). The guys who take advantage of the grad transfer rule generally want to use the opportunity to play, not sit on the bench.

So, I guess anything is possible. But every year people seem to believe we can just pick up a top-shelf grad transfer to use for depth purposes and I think those people are being unrealistic.

[SkyBrickey]

It’s being rumored that 2020 Duke Recruit Jalen Johnson is no longer enrolled at IMG Academy.

If this is true, hopefully he’s headed back to his old HS Nicolet. He has only been at IMG for a few months.

[MChambers]

If this is true, hopefully he’s headed back to his old HS Nicolet. He has only been at IMG for a few months.

Let me apologize for this, but:

I hope he's hopeful about the change in schools.

[Bob Green]

Staff will be checking out players at the City of Palms Classic:

https://cityofpalmsclassic.com

[BD80]

Here's his tweet (https://twitter.com/H_Dickinson24/status/1208115343102746625) where he makes a video announcement. One's level of appreciation depends greatly on the school he chose, so I guess it's the kind of video only a Michigan fan would love.

In his "reveal" he takes off a LOT of jerseys! Makes you think there's a least one or two more under the Michigan jersey to be revealed in the near future (prolly not NBA jerseys!)

[JasonEvans]

It’s being rumored that 2020 Duke Recruit Jalen Johnson is no longer enrolled at IMG Academy.

Jalen also had surgery a little while back to repair some meniscus damage and I believe he has not played for IMG at all. He may be going back home if this season is sorta going to be a waste on the court.

There is also apparently some talk -- I have not idea how realistic it is -- that he may enroll at Duke early.

[arnie]

Jalen also had surgery a little while back to repair some meniscus damage and I believe he has not played for IMG at all. He may be going back home if this season is sorta going to be a waste on the court.

There is also apparently some talk -- I have not idea how realistic it is -- that he may enroll at Duke early.

Can he suit up against Brown?🤫

[TKG]

Jalen also had surgery a little while back to repair some meniscus damage and I believe he has not played for IMG at all. He may be going back home if this season is sorta going to be a waste on the court.

There is also apparently some talk -- I have not idea how realistic it is -- that he may enroll at Duke early.

And keeping up with his classroom work, of course! :).

[frb]

Jalen also had surgery a little while back to repair some meniscus damage and I believe he has not played for IMG at all. He may be going back home if this season is sorta going to be a waste on the court.

There is also apparently some talk -- I have not idea how realistic it is -- that he may enroll at Duke early.

OR COULD JALEN BEING ENTERING THE NBA DRAFT? Look at this post I made in July that quotes ESPN draft guru Jonathan Givony

LINK:

https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?42120-2021-Men-s-Basketball-Recruiting-Thread/page2

[arnie]

OR COULD JALEN BEING ENTERING THE NBA DRAFT? Look at this post I made in July that quotes ESPN draft guru Jonathan Givony

LINK:

https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?42120-2021-Men-s-Basketball-Recruiting-Thread/page2

That’s certainly possible - if he thinks his stock is high enough, why bother with a semester or two of college.

[jaywilliams22]

That’s certainly possible - if he thinks his stock is high enough, why bother with a semester or two of college.

Some video of future Blue Devils at the City of Palms last week

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jBt1CZRBkQ

DJ Steward ('20), Mark Williams ('20) and AJ Griffin ('21)

Griffin is going to be an absolute beast by the time he gets here...

[Steven43]

That’s certainly possible - if he thinks his stock is high enough, why bother with a semester or two of college.

Why would Jalen Johnson be eligible to go straight from high school to the NBA Draft?

[arnie]

Why would Jalen Johnson be eligible to go straight from high school to the NBA Draft?

Frb post above with link to 2021 recruiting thread.

[bullettoothtony]

Some video of future Blue Devils at the City of Palms last week

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jBt1CZRBkQ

DJ Steward ('20), Mark Williams ('20) and AJ Griffin ('21)

Griffin is going to be an absolute beast by the time he gets here...


Yeah I'm still excited about the Griffin commitment. When you see him it's kind of hard to believe he's as young as he is.

If we could pair him with Baldwin that would be a remarkable core so to speak.

[jaywilliams22]

Yeah I'm still excited about the Griffin commitment. When you see him it's kind of hard to believe he's as young as he is.

If we could pair him with Baldwin that would be a remarkable core so to speak.

Agreed! And adding Max Christie (all signs point to Duke here) would be an awesome trio to start 2021 with.

Also pretty pumped about DJ Steward. I think he'll be our best freshman next year.

[bullettoothtony]

Agreed! And adding Max Christie (all signs point to Duke here) would be an awesome trio to start 2021 with.

Also pretty pumped about DJ Steward. I think he'll be our best freshman next year.


I forgot about Christie... I don't think shooting would be a problem with those three.

[mstein34]

I forgot about Christie... I don't think shooting would be a problem with those three.

Especially with Baldwin working hard to be ambidextrous with his outside shooting.

[Smitty1911]

Especially with Baldwin working hard to be ambidextrous with his outside shooting.

I believe you misspelled amphibious.

[heyman25]

Kuminga is in Raleigh starting today.
https://www.zagsblog.com/2019/12/29/duke-goes-two-deep-for-jonathan-kuminga-at-john-wall-invitational/

[DavidBenAkiva]

Kuminga is in Raleigh starting today.
https://www.zagsblog.com/2019/12/29/duke-goes-two-deep-for-jonathan-kuminga-at-john-wall-invitational/

There's a possibility Kuminga reclassifies to the Class of 2020, but he is a junior in high school at the moment. As are AJ Griffin and Max Christie. Here's the thread for that discussion: https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?42120-2021-Men-s-Basketball-Recruiting-Thread/page8

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

There's a possibility Kuminga reclassifies to the Class of 2020, but he is a junior in high school at the moment. As are AJ Griffin and Max Christie. Here's the thread for that discussion: https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?42120-2021-Men-s-Basketball-Recruiting-Thread/page8
Hasn’t he emphatically stated that he’s not reclassifying?

[devildeac]

Hasn’t he emphatically stated that he’s not reclassifying?

That's what I recall from a month or three ago, but, then again, he's 17 or 18 years old.

[heyman25]

I know its early in the season, but I do not see Stanley,Moore and Hurt being high on NBA Scouts lists for the 2020 draft.Potentially the 6 incoming freshman will be joined by Goldwire,O'Connell,Baker,Stanley,Hurt and Moore. If Hurt starts making a higher shooting % from 3 and Stanley gets a better handle they have a chance to be 1 and dones. At the moment Hurt and Stanley would be better off with another year at Duke.

[SkyBrickey]

I still think Hurt could be a first rounder based on projected upside but for all these guys it could be a question of developing another year at Duke and competing for championships or developing in the G League. Who knoweth the mind of an 18 year old? I was pleasantly surprised this year when Tre Jones decided to return. We should have a deep competitive team next year no matter what - top 15ish if none of these guys return and top 5ish if they all return.

[budwom]

I still think Hurt could be a first rounder based on projected upside but for all these guys it could be a question of developing another year at Duke and competing for championships or developing in the G League. Who knoweth the mind of an 18 year old? I was pleasantly surprised this year when Tre Jones decided to return. We should have a deep competitive team next year no matter what - top 15ish if none of these guys return and top 5ish if they all return.

yeah, Hurt definitely has some skills, but I think it will take him a few years at the pro level to gain sufficient strength to compete....are teams willing to wait that long?

[BlueDevil16]

I know its early in the season, but I do not see Stanley,Moore and Hurt being high on NBA Scouts lists for the 2020 draft.Potentially the 6 incoming freshman will be joined by Goldwire,O'Connell,Baker,Stanley,Hurt and Moore. If Hurt starts making a higher shooting % from 3 and Stanley gets a better handle they have a chance to be 1 and dones. At the moment Hurt and Stanley would be better off with another year at Duke.

Hurt needs a full summer in the weight room. Stanley is old for his class so could see him leave even if he’s a second round pick. Think Moore needs to work on his handle and finishing through contact. Unless we go on an amazing ACC and March Madness run (which would be awesome), 2/3 the three have to be expected to come back.

[budwom]

Hurt needs a full summer in the weight room. Stanley is old for his class so could see him leave even if he’s a second round pick. Think Moore needs to work on his handle and finishing through contact. Unless we go on an amazing ACC and March Madness run (which would be awesome), 2/3 the three have to be expected to come back.

Reasonable points, but I've given up on predicting who'll return..."being ready" no longer matters; if some team likes a kid's potential, off he goes, ready or not as they say.

[UrinalCake]

We should have a deep competitive team next year no matter what - top 15ish if none of these guys return and top 5ish if they all return.

If everyone returns (other than Carey and Tre) I would expect us to be #1 by a fairly large margin.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Reasonable points, but I've given up on predicting who'll return..."being ready" no longer matters; if some team likes a kid's potential, off he goes, ready or not as they say.

Can you say Cam Reddish?

[Music man55]

Hurt needs a full summer in the weight room. Stanley is old for his class so could see him leave even if he’s a second round pick. Think Moore needs to work on his handle and finishing through contact. Unless we go on an amazing ACC and March Madness run (which would be awesome), 2/3 the three have to be expected to come back.

Agree. I think right now Carey is the only obvious one and done. Would love to see the other three come back next year, but I would also like to see those three go on a tear, because that would make us even more dangerous this year. Like the old saying for those of us old enough to remember, "make hay today while the sun shines", instead of hoping everyone sticks around for another year. Either way, we will still be very good next year regardless of who goes and who stays. I'll just enjoy this year while we have it. Go Duke!

[UrinalCake]

Hurt needs more than just time in the weight room. He’s not very athletic and doesn’t have much of a handle. The NBA does draft on potential, but you have to do something to demonstrate that you have that potential. Moore does a lot of things pretty well but not one thing at an elite NBA level. Stanley has NBA athleticism but his skills are still very raw. All of these guys could develop into first rounders by the end of the season, but they’re not there yet IMO.

[DavidBenAkiva]

I know its early in the season, but I do not see Stanley,Moore and Hurt being high on NBA Scouts lists for the 2020 draft.Potentially the 6 incoming freshman will be joined by Goldwire,O'Connell,Baker,Stanley,Hurt and Moore. If Hurt starts making a higher shooting % from 3 and Stanley gets a better handle they have a chance to be 1 and dones. At the moment Hurt and Stanley would be better off with another year at Duke.

Hurt is shooting the ball pretty well. He's averaging 48.0% FG% / 54.0% 2P% / 38.5% 3P% / 75.0% FT% for an effective field goal percentage of 55.4%.

By way of comparison, here are Mike Dunleavy's sophomore shooting stats from 2000-01: 47.4%/54.0%/37.3%/69.4%

Hurt has a higher Offensive Rating than either Tre Jones or Cassius Stanley. If anything, I think Hurt needs to be more assertive and demand the ball more.

His advanced stats are quite good. He could stand to be a better playmaker, dishing the ball off to teammates more often. His assist numbers are a little low. To me, the key to reaching this team's highest potential is more Hurt, the same amount of Carey, and less of everyone else on offense.

[jv001]

Hurt is shooting the ball pretty well. He's averaging 48.0% FG% / 54.0% 2P% / 38.5% 3P% / 75.0% FT% for an effective field goal percentage of 55.4%.

By way of comparison, here are Mike Dunleavy's sophomore shooting stats from 2000-01: 47.4%/54.0%/37.3%/69.4%

Hurt has a higher Offensive Rating than either Tre Jones or Cassius Stanley. If anything, I think Hurt needs to be more assertive and demand the ball more.

His advanced stats are quite good. He could stand to be a better playmaker, dishing the ball off to teammates more often. His assist numbers are a little low. To me, the key to reaching this team's highest potential is more Hurt, the same amount of Carey, and less of everyone else on offense.

Less of Wendell's bull in a china closet driving to the basket and more passing to open team mates. GoDuke!

[SilkyJ]

Hurt needs more than just time in the weight room. He’s not very athletic and doesn’t have much of a handle. The NBA does draft on potential, but you have to do something to demonstrate that you have that potential. Moore does a lot of things pretty well but not one thing at an elite NBA level. Stanley has NBA athleticism but his skills are still very raw. All of these guys could develop into first rounders by the end of the season, but they’re not there yet IMO.

Cassius is shooting almost 42% from 3 on 2 attempts per game. That’s a smallish sample size, but would not call his shooting skill raw at this point. If he finishes above 40% from 3 it’s an “ahhhh C Ya” situation.

[jv001]

Cassius is shooting almost 42% from 3 on 2 attempts per game. That’s a smallish sample size, but would not call his shooting skill raw at this point. If he finishes above 40% from 3 it’s an “ahhhh C Ya” situation.

Yeh, I'd say his jumper is SilkyJ. :cool:
GoDuke!

[Steven43]

I know its early in the season, but I do not see Stanley,Moore and Hurt being high on NBA Scouts lists for the 2020 draft.Potentially the 6 incoming freshman will be joined by Goldwire,O'Connell,Baker,Stanley,Hurt and Moore. If Hurt starts making a higher shooting % from 3 and Stanley gets a better handle they have a chance to be 1 and dones. At the moment Hurt and Stanley would be better off with another year at Duke.

So who is the likely starting PG next season? I can’t see Goldwire ever being more than a backup — though a quite capable one — on a high-level Duke team. On a team that is building for the future and not expecting to contend for the top of the ACC next season, yes, but Duke hasn’t been that since the early 1980’s.

[DavidBenAkiva]

So who is the likely starting PG next season? I can’t see Goldwire ever being more than a backup — though a quite capable one — on a high-level Duke team. On a team that is building for the future and not expecting to contend for the top of the ACC next season, yes, but Duke hasn’t been that since the early 1980’s.

Jeremy Roach

[SilkyJ]

Yeh, I'd say his jumper is SilkyJ. :cool:
GoDuke!

Close. I’d say he HAS a Silky J ;)

[SilkyJ]

Jeremy Roach

100% Agree, although it will not shock me to see Jordan start some games and play plenty. If he can become a remotely consistent 3 point shooter, his athleticism and D will get him minutes. A year ago I would not have imagined writing that sentence, but he’s become a superb defender and reliable ball handler. He needs to finish better and shoot more reliably to get starters minutes with all the offense we will have in the backcourt/wing next year...not out of the question, but tough to say if he’ll make the jump.

To be clear, I’m not saying he’s got a chance to take Roach’s spot. Just responding to OP’s comments/saying Jordan could earn starters level minutes if he makes a small jump on offense.

[Troublemaker]

So who is the likely starting PG next season? I can’t see Goldwire ever being more than a backup — though a quite capable one — on a high-level Duke team. On a team that is building for the future and not expecting to contend for the top of the ACC next season, yes, but Duke hasn’t been that since the early 1980’s.

DJ Steward, although Jalen Johnson, Roach, and Moore (if he's back) will all handle the ball a lot, too.

[mattman91]

DJ Steward, although Jalen Johnson, Roach, and Moore (if he's back) will all handle the ball a lot, too.

You like Steward over Roach as starting PG?

[CDu]

DJ Steward, although Jalen Johnson, Roach, and Moore (if he's back) will all handle the ball a lot, too.


You like Steward over Roach as starting PG?

Yeah, I'd suspect that Roach is the starting PG. He's the higher-rated recruit of the two, and he's the one who is an actual PG (Steward is a SG with combo guard skills).

That said, it will be interesting to see how the wing spot plays out with Steward and Johnson (though perhaps he bumps up to PF) coming in and the possibility of Moore and/or Stanley returning. And if Johnson does slide up to PF a la Ingram/Tatum, there's the possibility that Hurt returns too (he has not looked like a sure-fire first rounder so far this year, and his limited run/jump athleticism and skinny frame makes it hard to project his NBA viability). I mean, obviously Johnson will start somewhere regardless given his talent. But there is a reasonable chance that a couple of guys hoping to be starters are stuck coming off the bench next year.

Not that I'd complain about having a few top-25 recruits coming off the bench, of course.

[BD80]

Yeah, I'd suspect that Roach is the starting PG. He's the higher-rated recruit of the two, and he's the one who is an actual PG (Steward is a SG with combo guard skills).

We CAN'T start two PGs! That NEVER works out for us!

[CDu]

We CAN'T start two PGs! That NEVER works out for us!

Yes, we've often started two guys who can handle the ball. And one of them plays primarily PG. Of the two, I'd expect that to be Roach, with Steward serving the "SG who can also handle the ball really well" role.

Of course, it's quite possible that only one of them is a starter next year, pending decisions by Moore and Stanley. And if only one of them starts, I'd expect it to be Roach at PG.

[UrinalCake]

I expect Roach to be a pest on defense, and for Steward to serve out plenty of treys.

[Troublemaker]

You like Steward over Roach as starting PG?

Yeah, while I certainly wouldn't mind them starting together, it just seems like we're going to end up with a lot of returning wing talent next season. Whether that's soph Stanley, soph Moore, Jr Baker, or maybe even Sr AOC, I think we'll end up starting *one* of Steward or Roach to accomodate that wing talent, although Coach K will certainly play them together at times. Anyway, for me, Steward is the better player so that's whom I expect to start. Certainly not a knock on Roach, whom I love having on the team as well.

Additionally, think about how much ball-handing duty Jalen Johnson, who plays like a point-forward, and a soph Moore will take on. Steward is going to end up complementing those guys better.

[SilkyJ]

Yeah, I'd suspect that Roach is the starting PG. He's the higher-rated recruit of the two, and he's the one who is an actual PG (Steward is a SG with combo guard skills).

That said, it will be interesting to see how the wing spot plays out with Steward and Johnson (though perhaps he bumps up to PF) coming in and the possibility of Moore and/or Stanley returning. And if Johnson does slide up to PF a la Ingram/Tatum, there's the possibility that Hurt returns too (he has not looked like a sure-fire first rounder so far this year, and his limited run/jump athleticism and skinny frame makes it hard to project his NBA viability). I mean, obviously Johnson will start somewhere regardless given his talent. But there is a reasonable chance that a couple of guys hoping to be starters are stuck coming off the bench next year.

Not that I'd complain about having a few top-25 recruits coming off the bench, of course.

Not to mention Joey and/or AOC coming off the bench and fighting for minutes. I imagine both view themselves as starter-types next year (AOC hasn’t been playing great, but has started several games). We could have a real logjam on the wing next year if those guys come back...wouldn’t surprise me if someone transferred or we lost a recruit (ala Boogie) given that type of logjam.


Yes, we've often started two guys who can handle the ball. And one of them plays primarily PG. Of the two, I'd expect that to be Roach, with Steward serving the "SG who can also handle the ball really well" role.

Of course, it's quite possible that only one of them is a starter next year, pending decisions by Moore and Stanley. And if only one of them starts, I'd expect it to be Roach at PG.

I agree with that last sentence. I fully expect Roach to have the keys next year.

[sagegrouse]

Yeah, while I certainly wouldn't mind them starting together, it just seems like we're going to end up with a lot of returning wing talent next season. Whether that's soph Stanley, soph Moore, Jr Baker, or maybe even Sr AOC, I think we'll end up starting *one* of Steward or Roach to accomodate that wing talent, although Coach K will certainly play them together at times. Anyway, for me, Steward is the better player so that's whom I expect to start. Certainly not a knock on Roach, whom I love having on the team as well.

Additionally, think about how much ball-handing duty Jalen Johnson, who plays like a point-forward, and a soph Moore will take on. Steward is going to end up complementing those guys better.

I think this is a worthwhile discussion, although I am still figuring out who will or should start this year.

[CDu]

Not to mention Joey and/or AOC coming off the bench and fighting for minutes. I imagine both view themselves as starter-types next year (AOC hasn’t been playing great, but has started several games). We could have a real logjam on the wing next year if those guys come back...wouldn’t surprise me if someone transferred or we lost a recruit (ala Boogie) given that type of logjam.

I agree with that last sentence. I fully expect Roach to have the keys next year.

Yeah, with 6 scholarship recruits committed and probably only 4-5 scholarship recruits leaving (the two seniors, Jones, Carey, and probably one of Stanley/Moore/Hurt) it's going to get pretty crowded next. We may well have 8 top-40 recruits (between the frosh class and returnees from the sophomore class) as well as 3 more juniors and seniors who have been in the rotation for at least one year. And it's not out of the question that we'd have 9 top-40 recruits (if all three of Moore, Stanley, and Hurt return). In either of those scenarios, I'd not be shocked if somebody decided to go elsewhere. That's just a lot of talented mouths to feed, and even with Coach K's willingness to play up to 10 guys this season, I can't see him going to 11 or 12 next year.

Of course, there is still time for some of those 3 freshmen to improve their draft resumes and go pro (or just decide to go pro anyway). If 2 of the 3 go, we're back at a 10-man group with probably one of the freshmen bigs getting limited minutes in year one.

[sagegrouse]

Yeah, with 6 scholarship recruits committed and probably only 4-5 scholarship recruits leaving (the two seniors, Jones, Carey, and probably one of Stanley/Moore/Hurt) it's going to get pretty crowded next. We may well have 8 top-40 recruits (between the frosh class and returnees from the sophomore class) as well as 3 more juniors and seniors who have been in the rotation for at least one year. And it's not out of the question that we'd have 9 top-40 recruits (if all three of Moore, Stanley, and Hurt return). In either of those scenarios, I'd not be shocked if somebody decided to go elsewhere. That's just a lot of talented mouths to feed, and even with Coach K's willingness to play up to 10 guys this season, I can't see him going to 11 or 12 next year.

Of course, there is still time for some of those 3 freshmen to improve their draft resumes and go pro (or just decide to go pro anyway). If 2 of the 3 go, we're back at a 10-man group with probably one of the freshmen bigs getting limited minutes in year one.

I am sure it has been dealt with above, but I do better when I am sure of the numbers -- not much better, but some better:

2019-2020
Seniors:
DeLaurier
White
Justin Robinson
Juniors:
O'Connell
Goldwire
Sophs:
Tre Jones
Joey Baker
Frosh:
Carey
Cassius Stanley
Matthew Hurt
Wendell Moore
Supernumeraries:
Buckmire
Savarino
Worthington

That's eleven, not counting the last group. So, the three seniors leave, plus Tre Jones and Vernon Carey. That leaves six.

Now we have six recruited freshmen coming in. That's 12 players -- six returnees with substantial minutes this year and six recruits who naturally expect to play. Sounds like a nice problem to have, as long as I am not the one who has to talk to the Moms and Dads.

Kindly
Sage
'Note: This is a "roster" post, not a "starting line-up" post. Enough for one "Submit Reply" button'

[CDu]

I am sure it has been dealt with above, but I do better when I am sure of the numbers -- not much better, but some better:

2019-2020
Seniors:
DeLaurier
White
Justin Robinson
Juniors:
O'Connell
Goldwire
Sophs:
Tre Jones
Joey Baker
Frosh:
Carey
Cassius Stanley
Matthew Hurt
Wendell Moore
Supernumeraries:
Buckmire
Savarino
Worthington

That's eleven, not counting the last group. So, the three seniors leave, plus Tre Jones and Vernon Carey. That leaves six.

Now we have six recruited freshmen coming in. That's 12 players -- six returnees with substantial minutes this year and six recruits who naturally expect to play. Sounds like a nice problem to have, as long as I am not the one who has to talk to the Moms and Dads.

Kindly
Sage
'Note: This is a "roster" post, not a "starting line-up" post. Enough for one "Submit Reply" button'

Yep. Full disclosure to my math, I lumped Robinson in with the "supernumeraries" as he is not a recruited player (scholarship yes, recruit no). We have 10 scholarship recruits this year. We'll almost certainly lose 4 of them (the two other seniors, plus Jones and Carey), possibly as many as 7 (Moore, Stanley, and Hurt are question marks at this point). If all 3 return, we'll have 6 returning scholarship players. So I'm starting from 6, and subtracting down for any early entries or transfers.

We have 6 incoming recruits. So we could have as many as 12 recruited players, up to 9 of whom are/were top-40 recruits. And the three others would be seniors and juniors who are currently in the rotation this year. It's a great problem to have from a single-season coaching perspective. But it does raise the potential for transfer and/or the potential for headache in dealing with egos (and family egos) of those 2-3 who don't see the court.

Now, it may wind up moot if a couple of guys go pro/transfer/ask out of the scholarship commitment. But it will be an interesting next 12 months or so.

If Coach K can thread the needle on this, it would be a real coup in terms of transitioning out of the "one-and-done factory" and back into the long-term program mold without having a serious hiccup on the court. This year appears to have been a perfect year to try to do so given how few teams look really strong.

[JasonEvans]

Minute breakdown for the 2020 12-man rotation!!

PG- Roach 22, Moore 8, Goldwire 6, Steward 4
SG- Stanley 18, Steward 12, Moore 10
SF- AOC 14*, Baker 14*, Johnson 10, Stanley 4
PF- Johnson 18, Brakefield 10, Coleman 6, Hurt 6
C- Hurt 24, Williams 12, Brakefield 4

So let it be written, so let it be done.

-Jason "*note- this is not 14 minutes each per game... some games Baker will play 22 and AOC 6 and some games AOC plays 22 and Baker 6... that's just how these two roll" Evans

[DavidBenAkiva]

If Coach K can thread the needle on this, it would be a real coup in terms of transitioning out of the "one-and-done factory" and back into the long-term program mold without having a serious hiccup on the court. This year appears to have been a perfect year to try to do so given how few teams look really strong.

Don't look at how Duke is recruiting for the Class of 2021. Duke is hard after a ton of one-and-dones, and already has one in hand in AJ Griffin.

It's an interesting situation. Did Coach K and the staff purposefully go after more multi-year players to be prepared for the end of the one-and-done era? Or did the roster turn over so much, so fast, that they found themselves in need of more multi-year players than they had been bringing in recently?

To wit, Grayson Allen is the most recent McDonald's All-American that stayed all 4 years at Duke and played at least one season with Amile Jefferson, Marshall Plumlee, Matt Jones, and Quinn Cook - all were McDonald's All-Americans and all stayed at least 4 years. But who is the next Burger Boy that will be at Duke for more than 2 years? Wendell Moore? Someone next year? I wouldn't put any pies on it.

[Pghdukie]

I believe in the concept that Who stays and Who goes may lie in how far does Duke go this year ?
See Jones, 2015.
Just my 2 cents worth

[rsvman]

We CAN'T start two PGs! That NEVER works out for us!

Pretty sure everybody missed the obvious sarcasm on this one.



BD80 and I can't be the only ones who still remember 2015!

[MChambers]

Pretty sure everybody missed the obvious sarcasm on this one.



BD80 and I can't be the only ones who still remember 2015!

A few of us even remember 2001.

[CDu]

Pretty sure everybody missed the obvious sarcasm on this one.



BD80 and I can't be the only ones who still remember 2015!

Psst - I think we all got the sarcasm. In fact, my response was tacitly acknowledging the reference to 2015 and 2001.

[Indoor66]

A few of us even remember 2001.

Some of remember further back than that. 🤓

[BD80]

Minute breakdown for the 2020 12-man rotation!!

PG- Roach 22, Moore 8, Goldwire 6, Steward 4
SG- Stanley 18, Steward 12, Moore 10
SF- AOC 14*, Baker 14*, Johnson 10, Stanley 4
PF- Johnson 18, Brakefield 10, Coleman 6, Hurt 6
C- Hurt 24, Williams 12, Brakefield 4

So let it be written, so let it be done.

-Jason "*note- this is not 14 minutes each per game... some games Baker will play 22 and AOC 6 and some games AOC plays 22 and Baker 6... that's just how these two roll" Evans


Shouldn't this be some sort of infraction? I thought we had resolved to segregate minutes discussions to their own threads?


At least I had resolved to ...

[Dukehk]

Really can’t see Stanley returning for another year. He is 20 years old and I think he goes even if he is projected second round.

Hurt is probably 50/50 right now, but if he keeps up his play from the BC game then he is as good as gone.

Wendell might be the only one coming back because he definitely isn’t getting drafted based on his current play. Nor is he seen as having elite athleticism or major potential. Looking forward to having that young man back for at least a couple years. Chris carawell clone!

[Troublemaker]

Really can’t see Stanley returning for another year. He is 20 years old and I think he goes even if he is projected second round.

This is a common refrain around here but I gotta say, I think his age cuts both ways.

It's like with Wooderson from Dazed and Confused. You can't say, "He's 22 years old. There's no way he'll be hanging out with high schoolers next year!" because it invites the question "Well, what the heck is he doing hanging out with them this year?" I mean, when I found out about Cassius' age, my first reaction was, "Well this guy is in no rush."

https://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Wooderson-Dazed.jpg

[budwom]

yeah, I don't think you can draw Social Security at age 20, can you? I remember feeling pretty young at that age.

[SkyBrickey]

If you're facing a second round pick and developing in the G League, I don't think it's an obvious call one way or the other. Every kid will be different.

The case for Duke: you compete for championships with your friends, you play on TV every night, you work toward a free degree which could really benefit you if basketball doesn't work out, you develop those "brotherhood" bonds that could also help you out down the road, college is fun.

If you don't enjoy the college experience as much and are more motivated by short-term dollars and a G league salary, then the G league may be a more attractive path to jump on.

Neither is wrong but kids and parents are going to prioritize different things. I could see Hurt playing himself into a first round pick, but for Duke fans it would be amazing to see all 3 back for another year. Luke Kennard is a great example of a kid who had a breakout sophomore year, played himself into a first round pick, and is now a starter with the Pistons...

[BD80]

yeah, I don't think you can draw Social Security at age 20, can you? I remember feeling pretty young at that age.


Let's see … When I was 20, there was no drinking age, but there was Prohibition …



... Luke Kennard is a great example of a kid who had a breakout sophomore year, played himself into a first round pick, and is now a starter with the Pistons...


I'm confused. Is this an example of a good outcome, or a bad one?

[DavidBenAkiva]

The age thing with Stanley doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me, to be honest. He'll go not because he will be 21 years old next season but because he wants to go.

Just looking at last year's draft, some people had concerns about Brandon Clarke of Gonzaga, who is a 23 year-old rookie (as is Cameron Johnson). Clarke was a 1st rounder and has had a really strong start to his NBA career. Cam Johnson has too, for that matter. Matisse Thybulle of Washington is another guy, currently 22, that was an older NBA 1st rounder.

Personally, I don't think Stanley is as skilled as he needs to be to be drafted in the 1st round at the moment. Obviously, the athleticism is there to be a pro. And he's pretty good defensively, getting his fair share of steals. He's making 40% of his 3's so far this year and making more than half his 2's, primarily at the rim. He's a pretty good rebounder for a guard and gives you some steals and block shots, too. But he is not particularly assertive offensively and doesn't have playmaking abilities that he has shown to date. He projects out as a reserve 3-and-D in the NBA to me. That's worth a 2nd round pick to some team that sees upside with him. Maybe he hears that during the draft process and that's enough for him to go pro. Personally, I think he could become a 1st rounder by tightening up his dribble a little, taking more shots, and being a bigger part of the offense and defense. That may happen during conference play this season or it may happen next year. Or it might not happen! He might be as good as he'll ever be and getting to the draft before more scouts start finding flaws in his game might be the way to go. It's a tough call and I have sympathy for him. At least he's in a great situation right now at Duke where he is going to get great information and feedback.

As it relates to Duke and recruiting, It will be a luxury if any combination of Stanley, Moore, and Hurt return for a sophomore year. All have various skills and abilities and would help continue this great run Duke has had the past couple of years. I'd love to have a group of sophomores with the depth of the Class of 2020. Sprinkle in a little shooting with AOC, Joey Baker, and the hard-nosed bulldog that is Jordan Goldwire, and you have a heck of a squad.

[JasonEvans]

At least he's in a great situation right now at Duke where he is going to get great information and feedback.

Cassius Stanley's father is a fairly prominent sports agent (Keyshawn Johnson, Baron Davis, and a slew of NFL players) who will undoubtedly be able to get a lot of info on Cassius' prospects on his own in addition to the information Duke is able to provide.

[sagegrouse]

Cassius Stanley's father is a fairly prominent sports agent (Keyshawn Johnson, Baron Davis, and a slew of NFL players) who will undoubtedly be able to get a lot of info on Cassius' prospects on his own in addition to the information Duke is able to provide.

Which also implies that there is no strong economic incentive to try and cash in immediately for smaller paychecks.

[JasonEvans]

Which also implies that there is no strong economic incentive to try and cash in immediately for smaller paychecks.

As I said on the podcast a couple episodes ago, I read that Stanley's father has negotiated contracts worth in excess of $200 million over the course of his career as an agent. While there are expenses that come with running an agency, that would certainly imply that Jerome Stanley has taken home millions of dollars over the years.

[SkyBrickey]

As I said on the podcast a couple episodes ago, I read that Stanley's father has negotiated contracts worth in excess of $200 million over the course of his career as an agent. While there are expenses that come with running an agency, that would certainly imply that Jerome Stanley has taken home millions of dollars over the years.

Personally I think this is a stronger indicator that he may return to Duke than leaving for the G League just because he's 20.

I would bet a factor in Tre coming back was big brother Tyus, now worth millions, saying, "stay at least another year and soak it up, bro".

[UrinalCake]

Psst - I think we all got the sarcasm. In fact, my response was tacitly acknowledging the reference to 2015 and 2001.

2010 too. Although I suppose you could argue that we actually had zero point guards that season, just two guys who played the position.

[UrinalCake]

Which also implies that there is no strong economic incentive to try and cash in immediately for smaller paychecks.

Also implies he has grown up around professional athletes and has gotten a glimpse of that lifestyle, and may want it for himself. I’ve never bought into the notion that if a player’s parents are rich then he doesn’t have a motivation to earn money on his own.

[sagegrouse]

Personally I think this is a stronger indicator that he may return to Duke than leaving for the G League just because he's 20.

I would bet a factor in Tre coming back was big brother Tyus, now worth millions, saying, "stay at least another year and soak it up, bro".

The variant on Tyus to Tre, I suppose, is "I got pushed around big time in the League. Why don't you stay at Duke another year and get stronger?"