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View Full Version : Nolan Smith - I like this kid



Billy Dat
10-26-2007, 05:40 PM
Check out the final quote from Featherston's GoDuke column

"“Last year, it wasn’t a down season, but it wasn’t the best season they’ve had here,” he (Smith) said. “I just want to get us back to the ACC championship this year, beat Carolina two times and go far in the tournament.”"

THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN BOUT NOLAN! Just like inimitable Leon Black says on CYE..."Bring the rukus!" If you don't know Leon Black...get to know him
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81qsC4wRZtY

I didn't realize he and Ty Lawson were teammates - that will definitely help us because Paulus isn't staying in front of Lawson.

crote
10-26-2007, 06:36 PM
THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN BOUT NOLAN! Just like inimitable Leon Black says on CYE..."Bring the rukus!" If you don't know Leon Black...get to know him
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81qsC4wRZtY

Nolan needs to open it up, step inside, and just wreck it, eat a snickers bar, throw the wrapper on the ground, crumple up some newspaper, graffiti "NOLAN WAS HERE" and "WASH ME," and when he steps out? Don't close it. Leave it open. You want him to know you were there.

Classof06
10-26-2007, 06:38 PM
I think everybody here knows how I feel about this kid. He's the real deal and will leave Duke fans more than satisfied. Singler's the gem of this recruiting class, but Nolan's gonna be diaper dandy as well...

lavell12
10-26-2007, 06:49 PM
He reminds me a lot of Daniel Ewing from what I've read probably a better athlete but less of shooter.

gw67
10-26-2007, 07:18 PM
I saw Smith play in one game (USA vs. Foreign all star team, I believe). I think the comparison with Ewing might be apt and that he could be terrific off the bench as a freshman substituting for Paulus. However, I get the impression that many on this board would not be satisfied with that. What sort of performance would satisfy those pushing Smith and slamming Paulus? Would 25-30 mpg, 10-12 ppg, 6apg, a/to of 3, good shooting % from field and line, and lockdown defense on opposition point guards be OK and should we expect this kind of performance from the get go or later in the year.

gw67

VaDukie
10-26-2007, 07:32 PM
I love Nolan's attitude. As for playing expectations, I think he'll fall into the Will Avery level. Solid contributor off the bench as a freshmen, but a guy who blows up and asserts himself as a sophmore.

Bob Green
10-27-2007, 12:58 AM
I love Nolan's attitude. As for playing expectations, I think he'll fall into the Will Avery level. Solid contributor off the bench as a freshmen, but a guy who blows up and asserts himself as a sophmore.

I like VaDukie's assessment. William Avery played 19.3 mpg and averaged 8.5 points, 2.5 assists, 2 rebounds, and 1.7 turnovers, as a Freshman in 1998. I'm optimistic that Nolan Smith can contribute similar numbers.

lavell12
10-27-2007, 01:02 AM
people may disagree with the great PGs Duke has had but I think when it comes to pure talent alone Will Avery is the most TALENTED PG in Duke history. Not the best but the most talented.

gw67
10-27-2007, 08:53 AM
Personally, I would click my heels if Smith has a freshman year like Avery's. The big question regarding Smith, IMO, will be his passing and playmaking ability. Can he protect the ball and get the team into it's offense? He doesn't have a lot of experience being a playmaking guard and I think that it is presumptuous to assume that he will step in right away as a point guard in the ACC. If he does, I will be very impressed. Of course, a lot of folks on this board proclaimed that Henderson and Thomas were going to be stars as freshmen. We'll just have to wait and see.

gw67

monkey
10-27-2007, 01:16 PM
people may disagree with the great PGs Duke has had but I think when it comes to pure talent alone Will Avery is the most TALENTED PG in Duke history. Not the best but the most talented.

Loved Will while he played at Duke. Especially Freshman year when it was all a surprise how good he was (at least to me). But J Will would have eaten him for lunch.

ACCBBallFan
10-27-2007, 01:25 PM
Personally, I would click my heels if Smith has a freshman year like Avery's. The big question regarding Smith, IMO, will be his passing and playmaking ability. Can he protect the ball and get the team into it's offense? He doesn't have a lot of experience being a playmaking guard and I think that it is presumptuous to assume that he will step in right away as a point guard in the ACC. If he does, I will be very impressed. Of course, a lot of folks on this board proclaimed that Henderson and Thomas were going to be stars as freshmen. We'll just have to wait and see.

gw67For the reasons you cite, I suspect when Nolan is in the game whether as the nominal PG or nominal SG, he will probably be paired with one of Paulus-Scheyer as second PG.

Though that lineup of Smith-Nelson-Henderson paired with Singer and Lance/McClure would appear to be very formiddable on defense, not sure G is any better a defender than Scheyer, who does a great job despite being frail of fighting his way through screeners to lock down or at least contain perimeter guys.

Paulus and Henderson are both offensive threats, just have different ways of getting the same end result, with Henderson being the highlight reel guy.

JBDuke
10-27-2007, 05:59 PM
people may disagree with the great PGs Duke has had but I think when it comes to pure talent alone Will Avery is the most TALENTED PG in Duke history. Not the best but the most talented.


Loved Will while he played at Duke. Especially Freshman year when it was all a surprise how good he was (at least to me). But J Will would have eaten him for lunch.

Monkey, I agree with you 100%. And Lavell, you can add Johnny Dawkins to the list. Both JWill and JD were scoring/lead guards in the mode of Will, and both were better, even in their sophomore years. Obviously, we'll never know what Will could have done if he had stayed, but he hadn't risen to that level yet.

I will say this. I don't know that I've seen a better shooting exhibition than Will put on in that one game against Florida.

Furthermore, in response to such an outlandish statement, I'd say that Duke has had several more talented PGs than Will if you don't limit yourself to just lead/scoring PGs. Certainly Hurley, and possibly Amaker would be on that list. Generally, they weren't the scorer/shooter that Will was, but they were better at running the team.

dukestheheat
10-28-2007, 09:46 PM
Nolan Smith,

Dude is a bullet and we S-O-R-E-L-Y need that type of player on Duke and especially at PG. He's got the fast going on.

Therefore, today I hereby dub Nolan Smith 'Whiz Kid'.

I hope that sticks.

dukestheheat

lavell12
10-28-2007, 10:14 PM
Monkey, I agree with you 100%. And Lavell, you can add Johnny Dawkins to the list. Both JWill and JD were scoring/lead guards in the mode of Will, and both were better, even in their sophomore years. Obviously, we'll never know what Will could have done if he had stayed, but he hadn't risen to that level yet.

I will say this. I don't know that I've seen a better shooting exhibition than Will put on in that one game against Florida.

Furthermore, in response to such an outlandish statement, I'd say that Duke has had several more talented PGs than Will if you don't limit yourself to just lead/scoring PGs. Certainly Hurley, and possibly Amaker would be on that list. Generally, they weren't the scorer/shooter that Will was, but they were better at running the team.


I was refering to being the best PG but just god given talent I saw the most in Wil. In pure talent him and JayWill were the two most TALENTED. Dawkins, Hurley, Williams, Duhon, and others were better at Duke but not more talented. Just my opinion.

SilkyJ
10-28-2007, 11:05 PM
Monkey, I agree with you 100%. And Lavell, you can add Johnny Dawkins to the list. Both JWill and JD were scoring/lead guards in the mode of Will, and both were better, even in their sophomore years. Obviously, we'll never know what Will could have done if he had stayed, but he hadn't risen to that level yet.

I will say this. I don't know that I've seen a better shooting exhibition than Will put on in that one game against Florida.

Furthermore, in response to such an outlandish statement, I'd say that Duke has had several more talented PGs than Will if you don't limit yourself to just lead/scoring PGs. Certainly Hurley, and possibly Amaker would be on that list. Generally, they weren't the scorer/shooter that Will was, but they were better at running the team.

I generally agree but would say that hurley was just as good of a shooter as Jwill. He shot 40-42% soph-senior year. not quite the scorer, although he could definitely light it up.

JBDuke
10-29-2007, 02:38 AM
I was refering to being the best PG but just god given talent I saw the most in Wil. In pure talent him and JayWill were the two most TALENTED. Dawkins, Hurley, Williams, Duhon, and others were better at Duke but not more talented. Just my opinion.

Okay, so then what do you mean be "god given talent"? Best shooter? Nope. Best defender? Nope. Best floor leader? Nope. Best passer? Nope. Quickest? Nope. Highest jumper? Nope.

I'm struggling to find IN ANY WAY how Avery was the most "talented" PG at Duke. Maybe he had the best singing voice?

JBDuke
10-29-2007, 02:48 AM
I generally agree but would say that hurley was just as good of a shooter as Jwill. He shot 40-42% soph-senior year. not quite the scorer, although he could definitely light it up.

When I said "Generally, they weren't the scorer/shooter that Will was" about Bobby and Tommy, I was comparing them to Will Avery, not to Jason Williams.

I agree with the point I think you're trying to make, which is that Hurley was a good shooter. I do not agree that he was a scoring or shooting guard in the class of Will Avery. Will's sophomore year compares pretty favorably to Bobby's senior year in terms of shooting percentages and scoring. Imagine what he might have become if he'd stuck around two more years?

trinity92
10-29-2007, 11:09 AM
When I said "Generally, they weren't the scorer/shooter that Will was" about Bobby and Tommy, I was comparing them to Will Avery, not to Jason Williams.

I agree with the point I think you're trying to make, which is that Hurley was a good shooter. I do not agree that he was a scoring or shooting guard in the class of Will Avery. Will's sophomore year compares pretty favorably to Bobby's senior year in terms of shooting percentages and scoring. Imagine what he might have become if he'd stuck around two more years?

Had to chime in on Will Avery. I loved that kid, and shudder to think how good he would have been as a senior. As I've posted before, I think his departure and failure to make a career for himself in the NBA makes him just as sad a Duke PG story as Hurley or JWill.

OTOH, Smith really impressed me in the B/W game. His ball pressure will earn him a lot of minutes, and I foresee very good things for that kid in Durham.

Atldukie79
10-29-2007, 02:33 PM
The comment above that suggested Will Avery was more talented than Dawkins is absurd. Even if you only compare Johnny's freshman and sophomore years to those of Avery, please consider this fact: Dawkins was THE MAN on both of those teams, and certainly had no upper class help to lean on. And this was while the ACC was loaded with 3 and mostly 4 year players. Opposing teams keyed on JD, yet he delivered. Avery was not the featured guy and did not have to carry the burden. He was surrounded by a mix of upper classmates in addition to Brand and Battier in his class.

I loved Will's game, and wished he had stayed. In case you don't recall, the NBA figured out that Avery could not go to his left and he was ineffective. Same could not be said for JD.

No contest.

VaDukie
10-29-2007, 02:49 PM
When I said "Generally, they weren't the scorer/shooter that Will was" about Bobby and Tommy, I was comparing them to Will Avery, not to Jason Williams.

I agree with the point I think you're trying to make, which is that Hurley was a good shooter. I do not agree that he was a scoring or shooting guard in the class of Will Avery. Will's sophomore year compares pretty favorably to Bobby's senior year in terms of shooting percentages and scoring. Imagine what he might have become if he'd stuck around two more years?

Avery almost exists as a shadow for me at this point. I never thought he'd leave early and wasn't savoring his year as I was for Brand. Before you knew it, he was gone.

If memory serves he was the top vote getter on 2nd-team All-ACC, missing 1st team by a very small margin. A backcourt with him and Jay would have been scary.

Although if he stays 4, maybe we don't get Duhon. You just never know how things would have turned out.

Devilsfan
10-29-2007, 02:59 PM
Smith is to Paulus. Its a sportscar vs. a pickup truck imho. They both have their purpose.

johnb
10-29-2007, 03:10 PM
Avery was a really athletic guy--more obviously athletic than Hurley, Wojo, Amaker, Paulus, and maybe Duhon. Dawkins and Williams were also amazingly athletic, and I'm not sure which would be most 'athletic' from among those 3. "Athlete" doesn't mean "PG," though, and so he'd be in my bottom 2 from those 8 in terms of basketball and leadership skills.

Avery's decision was probably the single biggest disappointment I've had with our guys going pro. I was bummed about several others, but all of the other early entrants did okay, more or less (if they'd stayed, I think Maggette might've become less selfish and Dunleavy more of a leader, but they've had solid careers, presumably gotten rich, and are likely to be content with their decisions). I think Avery was swept away by the Brand/Maggette express (+/- academics, partying, arrival of JWill) and got burned.

lavell12
10-29-2007, 03:44 PM
agree but JWill coming had nothing to do with it. Imagine if they all would hav stayed.

G Avery
G Williams
F Carrawell
F Maggette
F Brand

F Battier
F/G Dunleavy
C Boozer


That would have been an undefeated team oh well can harp on what could be. Also if they had the rule you had to go to college two years before that we would have some guy named Kobe Bryant.

CDu
10-29-2007, 03:49 PM
Avery was a really athletic guy--more obviously athletic than Hurley, Wojo, Amaker, Paulus, and maybe Duhon. Dawkins and Williams were also amazingly athletic, and I'm not sure which would be most 'athletic' from among those 3. "Athlete" doesn't mean "PG," though, and so he'd be in my bottom 2 from those 8 in terms of basketball and leadership skills.

Avery's decision was probably the single biggest disappointment I've had with our guys going pro. I was bummed about several others, but all of the other early entrants did okay, more or less (if they'd stayed, I think Maggette might've become less selfish and Dunleavy more of a leader, but they've had solid careers, presumably gotten rich, and are likely to be content with their decisions). I think Avery was swept away by the Brand/Maggette express (+/- academics, partying, arrival of JWill) and got burned.

I wouldn't necessarily say "more obviously" athletic than Hurley. That guy was pretty clearly athletic. He was exceptionally quick. Avery could probably jump higher, but if it was a footrace or a quickness contest, I'd hesitate to pass on Hurley.

I didn't see Amaker play, but from what I've read he was pretty quick too.

grc5
10-29-2007, 03:58 PM
Two items:

1. From now on, let's refer to Smith as the "Anti-Paulus"

2. Despite all the good points made above, what I love the most about Nolan Smith is that he's taken #2; hopefully he'll quickly make us forget about the last guy to wear that number :p

revmel53
10-29-2007, 04:32 PM
I too believe Will Avery is one of, if not most significant, early departure from any Duke team. As a freshman, he was incredibly inconsistent... But as a sophomore, he was just plain incredible. Still remember him almost singlehandedly beating N. C. State in Raleigh in a game that didn't end up close. Everytime State made a run, Avery answered with a drive, pull up jumper, or dish. IMO Trajan never should have taken the last shot against UConn, because he couldn't create his own. Avery would have gotten off a good shot... He took the money and ran, but could have been scary with two more years of college...

Karl Beem
10-29-2007, 04:36 PM
I too believe Will Avery is one of, if not most significant, early departure from any Duke team. As a freshman, he was incredibly inconsistent... But as a sophomore, he was just plain incredible. Still remember him almost singlehandedly beating N. C. State in Raleigh in a game that didn't end up close. Everytime State made a run, Avery answered with a drive, pull up jumper, or dish. IMO Trajan never should have taken the last shot against UConn, because he couldn't create his own. Avery would have gotten off a good shot... He took the money and ran, but could have been scary with two more years of college...

Avery was having a bad game that day.

Olympic Fan
10-29-2007, 04:37 PM
If memory serves he was the top vote getter on 2nd-team All-ACC, missing 1st team by a very small margin. A backcourt with him and Jay would have been scary.

Your memory is indeed right -- Avery received 221 votes in 1999, sixth overall and just behind Ademola Okalaja (226).

That was a bogus pick and generally recognized as one at the time -- what happened was that a large percentage of the electorate didn't want to vote for three players from the same team for first team. Brand and Langdon were the two top vote-getters on the team.

Of course, that 1999 team was far and away the most dominant team in ACC play in history -- 19-0 (counting the tournament) and just one game decided by less than 10 points (an 87-79 win at Georgia Tech). The team's AVERAGE margin of victory was 24 points a game.

That team should have had three first-team picks -- it's worth noting that Battier and Carrawell were the top two picks on the third team ... a year later, they were the two top vote-getters on the first team.

All that said, I'm not sure where the deification of Avery comes from. IMO, he was not as good a "point guard" as Hurley, Amaker, JWill, Duhon or Amaker. By that, I'm talking about playmaking skills -- the ability to manage a game and distribute the ball. Defensively, he was not as good on the ball as Amaker, Hurley or Wojo.

Physically, he was impressive. But while he stronger than Dawkins, but he was not as quick, didn't jump as high and couldn't shoot as well ... He wasn't as quick as Hurley -- when the Kings tested him before the draft, they reported that he was the fastest player they had ever measured with the basketball (and that was at a time when they had Spud Webb).

Will Avery was an awfully good player and a good athlete, but I don't think we should make him out to be some kind of superman.

PS Duke finally broke through the three-players-on-the-first team barrier in 2002, when Jason Williams, Mike Dunleavy and Carlos Boozer were all honored ... ironically, for a team that finished second in the league! That team also started two other players who later earned first-team honors -- Dahntay Jones (2003) and Chris Duhon (2004).

SilkyJ
10-29-2007, 04:50 PM
Two items:

1. From now on, let's refer to Smith as the "Anti-Paulus"

2. Despite all the good points made above, what I love the most about Nolan Smith is that he's taken #2; hopefully he'll quickly make us forget about the last guy to wear that number :p

you mean andrizzle buckner? why would we want to forget him?

Kilby
10-29-2007, 04:54 PM
I too believe Will Avery is one of, if not most significant, early departure from any Duke team. As a freshman, he was incredibly inconsistent... But as a sophomore, he was just plain incredible. Still remember him almost singlehandedly beating N. C. State in Raleigh in a game that didn't end up close. Everytime State made a run, Avery answered with a drive, pull up jumper, or dish. IMO Trajan never should have taken the last shot against UConn, because he couldn't create his own. Avery would have gotten off a good shot... He took the money and ran, but could have been scary with two more years of college...

I agree 100%. I kept hoping that the ball would get back to Avery because Langdon didn't have a chance. It was not a smart play by Langdon to keep it but he didn't have it in him to pass the ball. Avery would have been the best option to take the ball the whole court and get off a good shot. The good thing about that team is that it was so strong it was ok for Langdon to occasionally try to play above himself. The strenght to know your game, what you can do, and what you shouldn't try is something more players need. I think Scheyer has it.

OldPhiKap
10-29-2007, 05:59 PM
Avery was a really athletic guy--more obviously athletic than Hurley, Wojo, Amaker, Paulus, and maybe Duhon. Dawkins and Williams were also amazingly athletic, and I'm not sure which would be most 'athletic' from among those 3. "Athlete" doesn't mean "PG," though, and so he'd be in my bottom 2 from those 8 in terms of basketball and leadership skills.

Avery's decision was probably the single biggest disappointment I've had with our guys going pro. I was bummed about several others, but all of the other early entrants did okay, more or less (if they'd stayed, I think Maggette might've become less selfish and Dunleavy more of a leader, but they've had solid careers, presumably gotten rich, and are likely to be content with their decisions). I think Avery was swept away by the Brand/Maggette express (+/- academics, partying, arrival of JWill) and got burned.

The Avery family's financial condition is such that he had little choice to go (he is a good candidate for what they called the "hardship exemption" in the NBA years ago). Also, academics would most likely have gotten Avery anyway. It is my understanding that he -- how can I say this politely? -- was not quite Duke material.

Not slamming on him -- he was a great ballplayer and I wish him all the luck in the world. But I think K would acknowledge in his heart of hearts that Avery was not one of his better recruiting selections when the overall factors are considered.

JBDuke
10-29-2007, 06:10 PM
I too believe Will Avery is one of, if not most significant, early departure from any Duke team....

My vote for the early departure that has had the greatest impact on Duke's success so far is Luol Deng.

Will left after we lost in the championship game in 99. If he'd stuck around one more year, he would have helped a dreadfully thin 99-00 Duke team that depended heavily on a bunch of freshmen, but I don't know if he would have been enough to take us all the way. And if he'd been around in 00-01, well, we couldn't have gotten much further than we did. :)

If you look at Luol, though, it's a different story. His freshman year, 03-04, we lose in the Final Four. If he's around in 04-05 and 05-06, he gives us a truly superior inside/outside player to complement Mr. Outside (JJ) and Mr. Inside (Shelden). And even last year, he would have been The Man leading a talented but young group. He would have made an interesting post combination with Josh as well, IMO. I certainly don't see us losing to LSU and VCU the last two years if Lu was still in Duke blue.

Clipsfan
10-29-2007, 07:05 PM
I agree 100%. I kept hoping that the ball would get back to Avery because Langdon didn't have a chance. It was not a smart play by Langdon to keep it but he didn't have it in him to pass the ball. Avery would have been the best option to take the ball the whole court and get off a good shot. The good thing about that team is that it was so strong it was ok for Langdon to occasionally try to play above himself. The strenght to know your game, what you can do, and what you shouldn't try is something more players need. I think Scheyer has it.

I have always (and especially during that year) felt that Trajan was the heart and soul of the '99 team. After the championship game, I was devastated that it ended the way that it did but I felt that because Trajan had gotten us there that he deserved the last chance. I was a senior that year, and we all had seen Trajan help bring the team back from the tough '95 campaign.

He also embodied what we like to think of our team as: great players, great people, great students. I never heard anyone say anything bad about him, and how often do you find double majors on basketball teams? Especially ones who major in Math? I've always been sad that he never found the right fit in the NBA, as I'd love to see him play, but I'm happy that he's doing quite well abroad.

mgtr
10-29-2007, 08:16 PM
My vote for the early departure that has had the greatest impact on Duke's success so far is Luol Deng.

I agree 100%. Plus, we would have another go-to guy, relieving some of the pressure on JJ and SW.