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View Full Version : Westworld back on.......who's in?



moonpie23
04-21-2018, 10:06 AM
I'm excited...i hope they have a decent refresher/primer...

LasVegas
04-21-2018, 11:00 AM
Yeah, I definitely need a quick refresher. The trailer looks pretty good. I’m pumped.

AND The handmaid’s tale returns soon!!!!!!!

fuse
04-21-2018, 11:15 AM
On the fence.
Great acting, some strong vignettes within the overall story.

The “twist” at the end was incredibly weak storytelling.

JNort
04-21-2018, 11:36 AM
On the fence.
Great acting, some strong vignettes within the overall story.

The “twist” at the end was incredibly weak storytelling.

Why do you say it was weak? The twists were imo the strongest part of the whole season.

JasonEvans
04-21-2018, 12:29 PM
The “twist” at the end was incredibly weak storytelling.

Which twist?

A) That Delores killed Ford
B) or that parts of the season were taking place in the past
C) or that The Man in Black and Jimmy were the same person
D) or that Bernard was a host version of Arnold
E) or that Maeve turned back rather than escape
F) or that the hosts rose up and started murdering humans
G) or something else?

-Jason "here is a good recap of season one (https://www.polygon.com/2018/4/20/17243254/westworld-season-1-recap)" Evans

fuse
04-21-2018, 12:33 PM
Why do you say it was weak? The twists were imo the strongest part of the whole season.

I suppose the fact that season two is starting tomorrow leaves me spoiler guilt free.

The fact that Ed Harris and Jimmi Simpson were the same character across time ruined the show for me. I was pretty sure this was going to happen about 2/3 way through the season.

Old trope, lazy storytelling- just didn’t work for me.


Jeffrey Wright and Thandie Newton were the best parts of season one, for me.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
04-21-2018, 01:14 PM
I suppose the fact that season two is starting tomorrow leaves me spoiler guilt free.

The fact that Ed Harris and Jimmi Simpson were the same character across time ruined the show for me. I was pretty sure this was going to happen about 2/3 way through the season.

Old trope, lazy storytelling- just didn’t work for me.


Jeffrey Wright and Thandie Newton were the best parts of season one, for me.

Old trope? That two characters are the same person thirty years apart?

You must frequent different stories than I do.

Wander
04-21-2018, 04:23 PM
Yes, but I'm semi-irrationally annoyed at these shows taking ~2 years between seasons. Too much effort to remember all the characters and the hints dropped in the first season.

JNort
04-22-2018, 09:20 AM
I suppose the fact that season two is starting tomorrow leaves me spoiler guilt free.

The fact that Ed Harris and Jimmi Simpson were the same character across time ruined the show for me. I was pretty sure this was going to happen about 2/3 way through the season.

Old trope, lazy storytelling- just didn’t work for me.


Jeffrey Wright and Thandie Newton were the best parts of season one, for me.
Well I'm with whomever said it above, you must be watching or reading vastly different things than I. That was very different to me and I really had no clue as to it coming. Still it's only 1 of the twists, there were many in the show

darthur
04-22-2018, 12:19 PM
Jeffrey Wright and Thandie Newton were the best parts of season one, for me.

The Jeffrey Wright character was great, but I absolutely hated what they did with the Thandie Newton character. I know I'm very much in the minority here, but it seems like her story completely undermines the rest of the show. So much of the show is about teaching Delores self-awareness and getting her to *want* to rebel. And then Maeve comes along, convinces some hapless programmer to switch her "loyalty stat" to 0 or whatever it was, and presto, she's done the same thing. Except with a big gratuitously violent action scene to cap it off. Pretty darn sure Anthony Hopkins could have done that too, so they'd sure better make it clear why Delores's route is better during S2.

Anyway, I haven't decided if I'll watch. I liked S1 but with a rebellion starting, I worry the show will change into something I'm not very interested in. I'll be curious what people here think of it.

budwom
04-22-2018, 01:24 PM
I enjoy the show even though half the time I don't have the slightest idea of what's going on. That's what a good cast will do for you.

LasVegas
04-22-2018, 02:44 PM
I enjoy the show even though half the time I don't have the slightest idea of what's going on. That's what a good cast will do for you.

Hah! My feelings exactly! Just gotta stick with it.

left_hook_lacey
04-22-2018, 05:51 PM
When does first episode come on?

JasonEvans
04-22-2018, 06:51 PM
When does first episode come on?

In about 3 hours.

LasVegas
04-22-2018, 09:47 PM
When does first episode come on?

About 2 years ago.

Rich
04-22-2018, 10:34 PM
I enjoy the show even though half the time I don't have the slightest idea of what's going on. That's what a good cast will do for you.


Hah! My feelings exactly! Just gotta stick with it.

Well, the 1973 movie was easier to follow so maybe just stick with that and call it a day.

luburch
04-23-2018, 06:45 AM
So, we technically saw three story lines in the first episode, correct?

TL 1: Arnold talking to Delores
TL 2: Bernard wakes up on the beach a few weeks (?) after the dinner party
TL 3: Delores is killing everything immediately after the dinner party and Bernard is with Charlotte.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
04-23-2018, 07:26 AM
I felt like TL1 was a figment of Bernard's imagination. That Delores seemed to be some sort of shiny CGI version - like CGI Leia. Ergo, Bernard's Android "dream."

This season will need to offer me a little more clarification pretty quickly. I loved the first season, but the gap between seasons has left me caring a bit less about these characters.

Native
04-23-2018, 07:49 AM
So, we technically saw three story lines in the first episode, correct?

TL 1: Arnold talking to Delores
TL 2: Bernard wakes up on the beach a few weeks (?) after the dinner party
TL 3: Delores is killing everything immediately after the dinner party and Bernard is with Charlotte.

I think so. Though TL3 and TL2 are roughly two weeks apart.

TL1 could be happening at any time.

JasonEvans
04-23-2018, 07:59 AM
So, we technically saw three story lines in the first episode, correct?

TL 1: Arnold talking to Delores
TL 2: Bernard wakes up on the beach a few weeks (?) after the dinner party
TL 3: Delores is killing everything immediately after the dinner party and Bernard is with Charlotte.

Well, I'm not so sure #1 is an actual storyline. There are scenes of Arnold talking to Delores from 30 years ago but I'm not sure there is a lot of story to be told there. We've already seen a good bit of what happened during that storyline (Arnold senses growing consciousness in Delores, Arnold wants to prevent the park from opening, Arnold uploads Wyatt into Delores and sacrifices himself to her wrath). From the trailers it is clear that there will be more stuff that happens 30 years in the past involving young William and his early relationship with Delores, but I dunno if I would say that is part of the Arnold talking to Delores storyline.

Also, you did not mention it but Maeve's search for her daughter is a major part of storyline 3. There was a lot of speculation that her daughter would be in Shogun World but it sure appears she is in Westworld, at least that is what slimy Simon seemed to indicate last night. I'm betting we are going to get to know Hector a lot more too.

I enjoyed the episode and am eager to see what plays out in storyline 3 catch up to what is happening in storyline 2. I think Bernard's last line of the episode is significant. He said, "I killed them all," meaning all those host bodies floating in that huge lake are somehow his fault. I'm guessing that is connected to something that happens with him and Charlotte. Worth noting that Bernard and Stubbs are the only characters currently in the park who we know survive everything that is happening in storyline 2. Charlotte, the Man in Black, and everyone else still alive could easily be killed off over the next 2 weeks until the Delos rescue team arrives.

Lastly, I really want to see something explained about Maeve's programming -- they said last season that she had been programmed to want to escape. I really thought she was the host that Delos was trying to get out of the park, not Delores' father (Peter Abernathy). I think it is significant that someone programmed her to escape and that she chose not to escape and go back for her child.

-Jason "more later... but the bottom line is that I love this show!" Evans

Wander
04-23-2018, 01:54 PM
I loved it, but I’ve forgotten way too much about the show in the long wait time:

1. Why is Dolores so cartoonishly evil now?
2. Who is the blond woman that’s not Dolores?
3. Does anyone know Bernard is a robot other than Bernard?
4. The maze doesn’t actually physically exist, right? It was a metaphor for Dolores finding her consciousness, right?

It’s fun that they seem to be going in the direction of exploring the other worlds, and I’m curious how Dolores will “take our other world” from us.

LasVegas
04-23-2018, 03:59 PM
What I don’t understand is the whole we need to save our IP/code storyline. I mean, did not one person think to back that crap up onto a hard drive or blast it to the cloud?!?!?

FerryFor50
04-23-2018, 04:28 PM
I loved it, but I’ve forgotten way too much about the show in the long wait time:

1. Why is Dolores so cartoonishly evil now?
2. Who is the blond woman that’s not Dolores?
3. Does anyone know Bernard is a robot other than Bernard?
4. The maze doesn’t actually physically exist, right? It was a metaphor for Dolores finding her consciousness, right?

It’s fun that they seem to be going in the direction of exploring the other worlds, and I’m curious how Dolores will “take our other world” from us.

1. Delores is broken - perhaps corrupted in her system, similar to how Bernard is. She thinks her dreams are now reality. That's why she's so evil now.
2. I believe the blonde woman was one of the women in the gang in season 1 with Hector
3. Delores knows. And everyone else who knew is dead, I believe.
4. That remains to be seen.

I thought the first episode was a bit off-putting, due to the difficulty tying back to season one (maybe should have re-watched the last few episodes first) as well as the overall body count and lack of reaction from most of the living humans.

I'm sure it will warm up a bit.

FerryFor50
04-23-2018, 04:33 PM
What I don’t understand is the whole we need to save our IP/code storyline. I mean, did not one person think to back that crap up onto a hard drive or blast it to the cloud?!?!?

They did - remember, they shipped off one of the robots outside of the island. That is "the package" that they're waiting on in return for extraction for Bernard and Charlotte. That's the "backup."

JasonEvans
04-23-2018, 04:43 PM
What I don’t understand is the whole we need to save our IP/code storyline. I mean, did not one person think to back that crap up onto a hard drive or blast it to the cloud?!?!?

I think the idea is that Ford kept a really tight seal on the code/IP. After all, that stuff is worth many billions of dollars. He wouldn't let someone just upload it. Also, it is really sophisticated and lots of data. That is why they needed to upload all of it into the brain of a host -- essentially turning Delores' dad into the world's biggest flash drive.

DukeDevil
04-23-2018, 04:45 PM
So many new questions, so much confusion as to what's happening, so much revealed too!

I was fascinated by the whole hidden bunker with the drone hosts. Why are they collecting the host memories and the DNA? Are they collecting information for blackmail? Are they collecting data to be able to generate hosts to be able to use as replacements for those people as infiltration for corporate espionage? For political espionage?

In the season 2 previews, I was convinced the drone hosts were a military application of the hosts, and that the whole hidden agenda for DELOS was to create hosts as supersoldiers.


What I don’t understand is the whole we need to save our IP/code storyline. I mean, did not one person think to back that crap up onto a hard drive or blast it to the cloud?!?!?

I think the amount of data involved made it difficult, hence the attempt to have the one host with the satellite uplink pull this off, but it also sounded in season one that even this required multiple attempts to get the data out. Additionally, they suggested that they had to be extremely careful with subterfuge as Ford threatened to destroy everything should they try to steal his IP, which one could argue he pulled off when he was killed (assuming the Ford that was killed WAS ford and not a host that be built in his secret bunker).

JasonEvans
04-23-2018, 05:07 PM
assuming the Ford that was killed WAS ford and not a host that be built in his secret bunker

Odds that Ford was really killed off... 30%? Maybe less.

I guess it depends on how much Anthony Hopkins wants to come back to the show. But, as Red 2 and Transformers: The Last Knight showed us, if you dangle a check, Hopkins will come running!

moonpie23
04-23-2018, 05:17 PM
wow...i really enjoyed that first episode.....a bit confusing, but i think it will shake out...


delores in da house.... :)

elvis14
04-23-2018, 08:26 PM
I actually didn't expect much from the first episode. I thought it would be a 'setup' show that really just setup the future, more interesting shows. I pretty much got what I expected. Looking forward to the rest of the season. I went back and watched the last couple of episodes from last season so I wouldn't be lost.

wilson
04-25-2018, 12:03 PM
...I was fascinated by the whole hidden bunker with the drone hosts. Why are they collecting the host memories and the DNA? Are they collecting information for blackmail? Are they collecting data to be able to generate hosts to be able to use as replacements for those people as infiltration for corporate espionage? For political espionage?

In the season 2 previews, I was convinced the drone hosts were a military application of the hosts, and that the whole hidden agenda for DELOS was to create hosts as supersoldiers...This struck me too. It raises interesting questions as to the series' long game...is this all going someplace much more weighty than a fancy theme park? Also makes it highly relevant to the current zeitgeist. Facebook, Google, et al, I'm looking at you.

A-Tex Devil
04-25-2018, 01:15 PM
Worth noting that Bernard and Stubbs are the only characters currently in the park who we know survive everything that is happening in storyline 2.

Did Stubbs survive? Last we saw, he was being attacked by ghost nation, right? How did he escape? Is Stubbs a host? Is Stubbs the host being built in Ford's office?

moonpie23
04-30-2018, 11:39 AM
last night's episode was interesting.....the convoluted timeline is a major part of what's happening.....I think they are doing a good job of story telling, without too much confusion, to set up subsequent plot twists...

seems like delores really has a plan...

A-Tex Devil
04-30-2018, 01:46 PM
last night's episode was interesting....the convoluted timeline is a major part of what's happening....I think they are doing a good job of story telling, without too much confusion, to set up subsequent plot twists...

seems like delores really has a plan...

So Dolores wasn't ready per young Ford, and they used the British hostto pitch Delos, Jr. instead. Then young William comes up with the plan with Delos Sr. to collect DNA of visitors, calling back to Bernard's discovery the previous week.

Am I following this correctly?

Is that Hong Kong or Shanghai? I don't know my skylines well enough.

darthur
05-01-2018, 12:40 AM
This struck me too. It raises interesting questions as to the series' long game...is this all going someplace much more weighty than a fancy theme park? Also makes it highly relevant to the current zeitgeist. Facebook, Google, et al, I'm looking at you.

As a Google programmer, I solemnly swear that we are not harvesting and cataloging DNA for the purpose of making homicidal robots. Google 1 Delos 0 on the don't-be-evil scale! :)

DukeDevil
05-01-2018, 08:27 AM
So Dolores wasn't ready per young Arnold, and they used the British hostto pitch Delos, Jr. instead. Then young William comes up with the plan with Delos Sr. to collect DNA of visitors, calling back to Bernard's discovery the previous week.

Am I following this correctly?

Is that Hong Kong or Shanghai? I don't know my skylines well enough.

Think you meant Arnold there.

I imagine the DNA collection bit came in later as the technology advanced, and initially it was just using the hosts to record and collect information on the park visitors. I'm still quite curious what the endgame is for the DNA collection.

I think that Delores seeing the huge diggers is a pretty good sign that she's the one that flooded the valley, and that all the hosts being there "drowned" is also a part of her plan, possibly as a surprise attack on the military/security guys that have come onto the island? I just imagine them assuming all those hosts are dead and then they all suddenly rise up and attack.


As a Google programmer, I solemnly swear that we are not harvesting and cataloging DNA for the purpose of making homicidal robots. Google 1 Delos 0 on the don't-be-evil scale! :)

That's exactly what someone who WAS harvesting and cataloging DNA would say. We're onto you -_-

moonpie23
05-18-2018, 08:22 AM
well, the timeline is really convoluted.......Bernard's character is becoming very curios.....

moonpie23
05-29-2018, 04:17 PM
Well, i'd like to say something about the show, cause i'm really into it.....i just don't really know what to say....
:cool:

Wander
05-29-2018, 04:48 PM
So, now that they've introduced the concept of people's consciousness surviving their deaths in the robot sphere brain thing, at least one of the following must be true:

1. Bernard really is human after all, i.e. Arnold (even if his physical parts are robotic)
2. Ford is alive because Bernard/Arnold put his consciousness in a robot sphere brain and eventually in a physical body

I think both are probably true. #2 is nearly definitely true, now that they've shown they have new scenes with Anthony Hopkins

JasonEvans
05-29-2018, 06:45 PM
So, now that they've introduced the concept of people's consciousness surviving their deaths in the robot sphere brain thing, at least one of the following must be true:

1. Bernard really is human after all, i.e. Arnold (even if his physical parts are robotic)
2. Ford is alive because Bernard/Arnold put his consciousness in a robot sphere brain and eventually in a physical body

I think both are probably true. #2 is nearly definitely true, now that they've shown they have new scenes with Anthony Hopkins

1. Ummm, how is he "human after all" if his parts are robotic? Do you mean that they have put Arnold's brain into Bernard's robot body? I don't think that is the case because Bernard has very different memories from Arnold and does not think of himself as Arnold.

2. Ford's consciousness (or something like that) is certainly alive inside the CR4-DL. I am sure he is controlling a ton of what is going on with the hosts in the park right now. That's why the hosts are not cooperating with The Man in Black/William. As for whether they put his consciousness back into a host body, I would be somewhat disappointed if they did that. Don't forget that the park just spent 20+ years trying to get the put-a-brain-into-a-host-body thing right for Mr. Delos and they never could perfect it. I think it would be lazy storytelling to suddenly fix whatever they have been doing wrong for such a long time so they can bring Anthony Hopkins back from the dead and put him in a host body.

Ok, we also need to talk about that mind-blowing scene at the start of the episode where Delores and Barnard have a conversation that is supposed to mimic a conversation Delores had with Arnold... but Bernard gets a couple words off and Delores starts talking about a "fidelity" test. While the rest of the episode had some interesting reveals about the CR4-DL and the image of Anthony Hopkins at the end, I think the fact that Delores was testing some version of Bernard is a huge moment that will be paid off in future episodes in a big, big way.

In many respects, Bernard is the most important character on the show at the moment. It seems like almost everything important is happening around him.

-Jason "meanwhile, Maeve and her whole crew could die right now and it would not change the larger plot one tiny bit... if that poor storytelling or will their arc become more important?" Evans

Wander
05-29-2018, 07:00 PM
1. Ummm, how is he "human after all" if his parts are robotic? Do you mean that they have put Arnold's brain into Bernard's robot body? I don't think that is the case because Bernard has very different memories from Arnold and does not think of himself as Arnold.

Ok, we also need to talk about that mind-blowing scene at the start of the episode where Delores and Barnard have a conversation that is supposed to mimic a conversation Delores had with Arnold... but Bernard gets a couple words off and Delores starts talking about a "fidelity" test. While the rest of the episode had some interesting reveals about the CR4-DL and the image of Anthony Hopkins at the end, I think the fact that Delores was testing some version of Bernard is a huge moment that will be paid off in future episodes in a big, big way.


I think your paragraph here sorta supports my point. The Dolores-Bernard scene was shown to be extremely similar to the scene of William testing Delos' consciousness in a new robot body. So, to keep that analogy, Bernard is Arnold's consciousness in a new robot body (which, yes, is what I meant by Bernard being human). I think we'll see a reverse-twist of sorts, revealing that Bernard's memories of his kid and such were real after all. He's that host-human hybrid, not a pure robot.



As for whether they put his consciousness back into a host body, I would be somewhat disappointed if they did that. Don't forget that the park just spent 20+ years trying to get the put-a-brain-into-a-host-body thing right for Mr. Delos and they never could perfect it. I think it would be lazy storytelling to suddenly fix whatever they have been doing wrong for such a long time


Come on, you know this is going to happen. The infinity stones all came together, Daenerys set foot in Westeros, and someone's consciousness will survive their death and be put in a new body. Once movies and TV shows tease this sort of stuff, it always ends up happening.

And yeah, Maeve's storyline just seems like it was an elaborate excuse to show samurais. I hope she becomes more important to the central plot (at the risk of making things too simplistic, I think maybe eventually she becomes the "good guy robot" to oppose Dolores' "bad guy robot").

A-Tex Devil
05-30-2018, 12:22 PM
So the scene with Bernard and Dolores in the first scene of Sunday's episode mirrors the conversation between William and robot Delos, I.E., "This is a test." "A test for what." "Fidelity".

JasonEvans
05-30-2018, 01:15 PM
So the scene with Bernard and Dolores in the first scene of Sunday's episode mirrors the conversation between William and robot Delos, I.E., "This is a test." "A test for what." "Fidelity".

Yup. Did you not pick up on that?

Meanwhile, a writer at Vanity Fair has come up with a really clever way (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/05/westworld-season-2-episode-6-phase-space-anthony-hopkins) of figuring out what reality we are in... the TV aspect ratio.


Westworld appears to have given us a clue to help anchor ourselves in this deeply confusing plot. How can we, the audience, tell if we’re inside the Cradle, or out in the real world? Here’s where we come back to the aspect ratio. You can see quite clearly that when the shot moves from Elsie in the Cradle to Bernard inside the Cradle, it goes from full to widescreen.

https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/5b0b6f9879412a613933b7d9/master/w_690,c_limit/see-in-there.gif

So any time you see the show go into a widescreen mode, that’s probably (probably) happening inside the Cradle. Right?

Which brings us back to the opening scene of both this episode and Season 2: Dolores and Arnold in a Bernard body. Guess what? It’s in widescreen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRLZuwzKibM&feature=youtu.be


-Jason "mind = blown!!" Evans

swood1000
05-30-2018, 02:39 PM
This story reminds me of the movie Primer, which involved a time travel machine allowing people to go back in time, at which point the person will exist twice. There are two people and they decide to go back in time for the purpose of making a killing on the stock market. The plot is hopelessly confusing (to all except those willing to diligently watch it eight or nine times) as to which timeline each person is in. If a person is entering the machine is it the person who was originally in that time period or the version of him that came from some time in the future? One of them tries to go into the past to prevent the whole experiment but the other one beats him to it in order to thwart him. What is the effect on the future of actions taken by a person traveling to the past? There are explainers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUzy-xPf0MI) on YouTube but I’m not convinced that the definitive clarification exists.

JasonEvans
05-30-2018, 03:02 PM
This story reminds me of the movie Primer, which involved a time travel machine allowing people to go back in time, at which point the person will exist twice. There are two people and they decide to go back in time for the purpose of making a killing on the stock market. The plot is hopelessly confusing (to all except those willing to diligently watch it eight or nine times) as to which timeline each person is in. If a person is entering the machine is it the person who was originally in that time period or the version of him that came from some time in the future? One of them tries to go into the past to prevent the whole experiment but the other one beats him to it in order to thwart him. What is the effect on the future of actions taken by a person traveling to the past? There are explainers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUzy-xPf0MI) on YouTube but I’m not convinced that the definitive clarification exists.

Most realistic time travel movie ever made. Writer/director/producer/star/editor/composer Shane Carruth says he intentionally made the movie somewhat confusing so the audience could experience the same confusion the characters have about what is going on. One of the key users of the time travel is a character who is barely in the movie!

This image does a great job of explaining everything:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Time_Travel_Method-2.svg/500px-Time_Travel_Method-2.svg.png

-Jason "if you have not seen Primer (multiple times) you are really, really missing something" Evans

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
06-11-2018, 07:47 AM
Are we still paying attention?

moonpie23
06-11-2018, 09:02 AM
Last night's episode was the most entertaining of the season (for me)

JasonEvans
06-11-2018, 09:04 AM
Are we still paying attention?

Every single ep. I can't decide if last night was a "filler" or if it was important to the larger story.

So, now we have a sentient host, Akecheta, going all the way back to when Delores first took on the Wyatt personality and massacred everyone (including Arnold). I am not clear what caused him to gain sentience. Unlike Maeve and Delores, he was not given "reveries" by Ford. All he did was see the maze left behind by Arnold and that triggered something within him. Uhhh, ok. I did like the revelation that the whole time he was telling the story to Maeve's daughter, he was actually telling it to Maeve because she is connected to her daughter. That's kinda cool.

Still, we are done with episode 8 and it doesn't feel like we are anywhere close to resolving the big mysteries of this season. The way I see it, in the next 2 episodes we need to learn the following:

What is in Peter Abernathy's head?
Why did part of the park flood?
What is Delores' plan to escape the park?
What is up with the Bernard who woke up on the beach (at the start of the season)? Something major is going on with him.
What is Ford up to?
Most importantly, who are the good guys and bad guys? Who should we be rooting for? Other than Delos being an evil corporation bent on selling immortality to the highest bidder, I can't tell who to like and who to root again at this point.

It seems next week will give us a lot of answers about another topic -- the family life of old William (the man in black, Ed Harris) and his relationship with his wife and daughter.

-Jason "I am increasingly resigned to the fact that we won't learn a lot of the answers to the main questions I posted above until season three... which is fine, I guess" Evans

Wander
06-11-2018, 10:43 AM
Why did part of the park flood?
What is up with the Bernard who woke up on the beach (at the start of the season)? Something major is going on with him.



Which brings me to another question... why did they bother showing us the flashforward in the first place? The only real effect it's had on my viewing is to take a little tension out of a few scenes because I know certain characters must survive. IMO it wasn't important enough to show, it sorta feels like they thought they had to do a multiple timelines thing just for the sake of it.

I do like the season though, and wonder if Dolores will make it to the outside world. We don't know much about the outside world, actually... I wonder if there will be some twist involved there.

elvis14
06-11-2018, 01:03 PM
Are we still paying attention?

I haven't watched last night's episode yet but I did get caught up on the rest of the season this weekend. I have to admit, I preferred season 1. I find myself either lost or apathetic for much of this season (of course I'll still watch every episode).

PSurprise
06-11-2018, 01:18 PM
I feel myself caring less and less about all the characters after each episode. Bernard is the only character I'm really interested in at this point because it seems he is different. But everyone else-humans and droids-I find myself not giving a lick. It would be shocking if a major character is killed, but will I feel really sad, or mad, if a character is killed off? Not really. If the show explains more about the 'real' world outside the park maybe we can get a better context of the 'whats' and the 'whys'.

elvis14
06-11-2018, 01:26 PM
I haven't watched last night's episode yet but I did get caught up on the rest of the season this weekend. I have to admit, I preferred season 1. I find myself either lost or apathetic for much of this season (of course I'll still watch every episode).


I feel myself caring less and less about all the characters after each episode. Bernard is the only character I'm really interested in at this point because it seems he is different. But everyone else-humans and droids-I find myself not giving a lick. It would be shocking if a major character is killed, but will I feel really sad, or mad, if a character is killed off? Not really. If the show explains more about the 'real' world outside the park maybe we can get a better context of the 'whats' and the 'whys'.

Glad to see I'm not the only one :-)

I'm still curious to see where it goes and look forward to watching last night's episode (probably tonight) but I'm with PSurprise, if someone gets killed off I'm not really going to care too much. I'll admit that I say this with a bit of disappointment.

Wander
06-19-2018, 12:53 AM
Are fathers killing their daughters to cement their evilness now a trope? Stannis, Thanos, William...

I've enjoyed the season. But I hope this does not turn into an 8+ season show. Sort of seems like it can just be a trilogy.

I do wonder what Dolores' plan is. It feels like we should have a big twist in the last episode. Are there a bunch of robot versions of all the real humans waiting in the Forge?

JasonEvans
06-19-2018, 07:30 AM
Are fathers killing their daughters to cement their evilness now a trope? Stannis, Thanos, William...

I've enjoyed the season. But I hope this does not turn into an 8+ season show. Sort of seems like it can just be a trilogy.

I do wonder what Dolores' plan is. It feels like we should have a big twist in the last episode. Are there a bunch of robot versions of all the real humans waiting in the Forge?

I wonder if it is significant that the tech never used that device to determine if William's daughter was human or host. Does the fact that he thought he was killing a host make him any less of a dark character?

Teddy killing himself was perfectly executed. I love the angst we have been seeing on his face the past several episodes leading up to this. He does not like what Delores made him into. The line about him seeing her in the lab and wondering if she was cold was magnificent writing -- so tender and genuine. Sure, he felt that way about her because he had been programmed to feel that way, but it still was a great little moment for the character. I think the message he was conveying there was that he loved her so much that he would die for her, but she did not truly love him because she chose to remake him into something ruthless and cruel. He would never want to remake her.

By the way, with the Cradle destroyed, Teddy should be gone for good now. Anyone who dies at this point cannot be revived because the Cradle was where the base program for all the hosts was stored. Without that, there is no way to recreate them... unless all the host programs are stored in Peter Abernathy (though I think that what is in his head is the guest data, the stuff that is also stored in the Forge).

I do agree that it does not feel like they have 8 seasons of this to give us. This season has been really good, but not nearly up to the standards of least year. I would like to see it as a 4 season thing. And there is no way we are going to get stuff even close to wrapped up in episode 10... I bet we will learn why the flood happened and what killed all those blank hosts but not much else. We probably catch the story up to the moment Bernard washed up on the beach and not much more than that. So, in essence, season two ends where it began.

-Jason "I'm still very much enjoying the ride, though one of my sons has started grumbling about it" Evans

JasonEvans
06-25-2018, 08:38 AM
Yeah... ummm... I think that went off the rails a wee bit.

JasonEvans
06-25-2018, 09:24 AM
Yeah... ummm... I think that went off the rails a wee bit.

I'll have much more later, but here are a few thoughts I have cobbled together for the moment.


Teddy is in heaven... but Delores isn't there and Teddy's whole fiber is built around protecting Delores. So, Heaven kinda sucks for him. That said, I am sure Teddy is one of the host brains Delores brought with her to the real world. She will build a new Teddy to be revealed next season, I am sure. Though with Delores hell-bent on destroying humanity, I don't know how kind-hearted Teddy will react to again being her muscle.


Why did Lee sacrifice himself for Maeve? I get that his character has evolved from the suit-wearing douche-bag we met last season and from the wimpy loser who was dragged by Maeve through the park earlier this season, but why did he commit suicide to buy Maeve and the other hosts a few minutes? It made no sense for his character or for anyone.Heck, I think he actually might have delayed the QA guards more if he had given up and they had to take the time to arrest him and put him in handcuffs or something like that.


Maeve will 100% be back next season. Those two tech guys who were helping her were put in charge of figuring out which hosts could be salvaged. I am certain they will pick Maeve. Conveniently, I believe everyone who knew Maeve was a special host with the ability to telepathically control other hosts is now dead thanks to Delores/Charlotte's actions. As an aside, Maeve's ability to to telepathically control other hosts was largely awful... though when she froze everyone to give her daughter time to get through the door it was pretty cool.


Where did Delores send all the host signals? She re-positioned the satellite linkup so she clearly sent them somewhere. Sounds like a season 3 plot point to me, though it is pretty clear that Aketchta and all the folks who followed him through the door want no part of Delores' battle with mankind. They just want to live in peace. Good luck with that...

thedukelamere
06-25-2018, 10:23 AM
Back in high school and college, I was required to take a total 6 years of a foreign language in order to meet all of the necessary pre-reqs for graduation. I chose Spanish, but I just drifted through the motions in a class that kinda sorta requires commitment and complete immersion. I could fake my way through vocab tests and written exams through memorization, but I could not (and can not) speak the language for the life of me... Meaning the frequent presentations and speeches presented a problem. I overcame this dilemma but making a complete fool of myself; props, costumes, ridiculous dialogue, etc. The classes and the teachers looked forward to seeing what shenanigans I was going to cook up next, when in all actuality I was doing the bare minimum and speaking in sophomoric Spanish 101 vocabulary. 12 semesters, 10 A's and 2 B's, can't speak the language at all.

This is where my mind went after watching the finale last night... I've been willing myself into believing this show is prestige-level because of the mental gymnastics I've committed to it, but I'm slowly seeing that the writers might be just like I was in Spanish class; relying on obfuscation because they don't have a handle on the underlying story they are trying to tell. I mean, take out the strong performances from Ed, Jeffrey, Thandie, etc... What do you have left? Just the regurgitated "Team 1 sucks, Team 2 theoretically can be better, but in order to be better Team 2 has to be just as bad as Team 1 to wipe them out and allow Team 2 to reshape the world." Some great movies/shows/books have been created using that formula, and this show has a lot of the pieces to tell a really engaging story... If they get out of their own way and stop yanking us around for the sake of yanking us around. Fanboys would be pissed if they didn't have a puzzle to solve every episode, but I think the overall product would be better for it.

I'll still watch Season 3, but mostly because I have absolutely no idea what they are hoping to do other than turn it into a spy vs. spy thriller with Delores infiltrating/offing/replacing world leaders with Bernard trying to stop her? Maeve and Clem basically going Jedi vs. Sith with host Force powers? If Delores is planning on bringing virtual hosts into the real world for a revolution, is the show going to time-jump 200 years considering how long it would take her to create all of those bodies on the Arnold Table 1.0? Will they explain why the hell we've spent hours and hours of our lives watching William's character???

Wander
06-25-2018, 11:11 AM
Ha, I liked it better than you guys. I appreciated that the season told a story with an ending, and I appreciated that they didn't repeat a timeline twist involving the flashforward actually being a flashback or flashsideways. I like that the 3 seasons of the show are all going to be very different from each other, and I'm intrigued to see what they do with Dolores in the real world. I still wonder if there are things about the real world that we don't know... maybe it is apocalyptic or something, which is why so many people are escaping into Westworld fantasies. The Charlotte-Dolores thing was cool.

Buttttttt..... the post-credits scene (is Westworld part of the MCU?) was stupid. It did nothing but create confusion, and I don't see why the creators felt the need to include another flashforward. The show also romanticizes the robots a bit too much. Read the interviews with the creators and you'll see this is intentional and not going away... it's like the show's creators have the same attitude as Ford. It'd be nice if we could have a human character who was both not-evil and competent (I guess Emily was sorta this, but she wasn't around for the finale). House of Cards had this problem in early seasons and eventually solved it.

mkirsh
06-25-2018, 01:10 PM
I guess I have a different view - on it's own, I liked the last episode. I enjoyed the the payoff of the forge, some of the dialogue about the differences between guests and hosts, forcing Bernard to choose a side, and the Deloris/Charlotte twist (though I'm not entirely sure how Bernard made her that fast but just may have missed that as Bernard's time was not linear). My main issue is that the 8 episodes in between the season opener and finale seem somewhat useless, and the season could have been 2 or 3 episodes at most. Episodes 2-9 just seem to be people moving from place to place in different timelines and a lot of gore that didn't really advance the story or the characters. Maybe if I re-watched them the timeline jumping would make sense and I would appreciate the series more, but the episodes weren't interesting enough to merit a re-watch. Also, did anyone else get an "Inception" vibe from the whole thing, especially all the Bernard/Deloris interviews?

I loved season one, but didn't enjoy this one as much and am only lukewarm about a third season.

thedukelamere
06-25-2018, 01:53 PM
Also, did anyone else get an "Inception" vibe from the whole thing, especially all the Bernard/Deloris interviews?

I could barely focus on what AI Logan was saying because I was thinking about Inception the whole time.