Trent officially declares for the draft [Archive]

MrPoon

04-07-2018, 11:12 AM

This was the least likely of the inevitable four announcements, but here we are. I wonder what his season would have looked like if he wasn’t the fifth option. He had an under rated ability to get inside and a nice mid range game that will help him, and of corse that three, when falling was lethal. Add that to good size and he should have a solid pro future. What will proabaly serve him best though is that toughness that he even flashed in the blue-white game going back and forth against Grayson. It showed up at different stretches but I always enjoyed when he dug in is heals and made a play.
Thanks for the memories and I’m sure you’ll represent your family and the program well.

richardjackson199

04-07-2018, 11:13 AM

Here's the link:

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211709757&DB_OEM_ID=4200

Saratoga2

04-07-2018, 11:23 AM

Here's the link:

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=211709757&DB_OEM_ID=4200

I don't see where it said he has hired an agent, but it is pretty clear that he is gone.

CDu

04-07-2018, 11:33 AM

I don't see where it said he has hired an agent, but it is pretty clear that he is gone.

Yeah, Duke players haven’t really done the “test the waters” thing. When they declare, they go.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15

04-07-2018, 11:42 AM

Good luck! Next play...

arnie

04-07-2018, 12:01 PM

Yeah, Duke players haven’t really done the “test the waters” thing. When they declare, they go.

That; and I think when our guys’ HS rankings are high they have the mindset when they show up they’re OAD.

Lots of peer pressure when you’re an elite recruit to leave; otherwise, your year in college might be perceived as a failure.

I think Trent gets drafted, just not sure he gets the 2nd contract.

TKG

04-07-2018, 12:08 PM

Next five, please.

johnb

04-07-2018, 12:46 PM

It's interesting to me that we are not only recruiting exceptionally well, our elite recruits seem focused on getting to the NBA asap, regardless of whether they'll be first round picks. This isn't necessarily true elsewhere. Maybe it's the idea that if you're at a OAD school like Duke or Kentucky, a delay will be seen as failure, but it seems fairly clear that Trent and Duval are likely to drift into the second round and aren't entirely ready to be NBA players. One could say they have the bodies and basketball IQ to excel and that they would have been All ACC if they weren't playing with three better players, but it seems just as likely that they benefited from being the 4th and 5th options. Trent got a lot of open shots (JJ was a MUCH better shooter under pressure), and Duval had the opportuniy to pass to a whole team full of efficient scorers. Both had great moments and would fit on NBA teams, but they are young and inconsistent.

Since Bagley and Carter strike me as truly NBA ready, every day, and Allen is Allen, and we have great coaches and a solid bench, one could suggest that if Trent and Duval had been truly NBA ready, right now, every night, we should have been completely dominant as a team. But we weren't. If I were an NBA scout, I'd be wary. On the other hand, both Trent and Duval strike me as good guys with impressive physical gifts, so maybe they'd be a good risks to develop into rotation players within a few years.

As for the college degree... I'd guess that a degree is almost necessary to be a division I or NBA coach or an espn announcer, but that tends to go to a fairly small percentage of former duke players. I'd guess our former players lead the elite NCAA schools in non-playing salaries following graduation, but I don't know how smoothly things go if you aren't the kind of guy who is going to end up on Sports center or on the Duke coaching bench. There are plenty of visible examples of success, but it is likely to be tough if you leave school after a year, bank maybe $1m after a 2-5 year career, and then don't have a skill or a degree. What are you ready to do? Has anyone done a spread sheet on what Duke players do after graduation and/or after their stint in one of the pro leagues?

Bob Green

04-07-2018, 12:56 PM

...but it seems fairly clear that Trent and Duval are likely to drift into the second round and aren't entirely ready to be NBA players.

NBADraft.net has all five Duke starters going in the 1st Round:

http://www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft

Ian

04-07-2018, 01:01 PM

NBADraft.net has all five Duke starters going in the 1st Round:

http://www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft

Again, NBAdraft.net is probably the least trustworthy mock draft.

Bob Green

04-07-2018, 01:12 PM

Again, NBAdraft.net is probably the least trustworthy mock draft.

I don't know beans about the various mocks. That one came up toward the top when I did a google search.

BigWayne

04-07-2018, 01:54 PM

I don't know beans about the various mocks. That one came up toward the top when I did a google search.

That means they are either paying Google or they are good at triggering the search algorithm.

MChambers

04-07-2018, 02:08 PM

Raise your hand if, especially after his mom's article about the "all-con" college basketball experience, WC would be the last to declare for the draft. Hmmm.

So you’re saying there’s a chance? 😉

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15

04-07-2018, 02:11 PM

Amazing how differently we might feel about these particular players had Grayson's shot rolled in.

Dukehky

04-07-2018, 02:22 PM

You can't be super pumped and excited to get top 10 recruits and then be a jerk when they decide to leave. He was a top 10 recruit, the plan was to be here 1 year. The staff recruited him for that reason, sorry you were naive and thought he might come back.

I don't think Gary is a tremendous NBA prospect either, but I kinda knew what the deal was coming in. I would have loved to have seen him come back. I'll watch him next year if he ever gets on a court, and I'll pull for him. I actually think that he probably should leave now before his weaknesses become deficiencies that no one thinks can be corrected.

I thought there was a chance too, but as time progressed after the season, reality started to hit.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15

04-07-2018, 02:36 PM

He laced them up for Duke, played his heart out, and gave us some good games. Do I wish he was staying around? Sure. Do I understand why he isn't? Absolutely.

The system is the part that is [messed up]. Not the players. Our players are still our guys and I will wish them well.

If you are expecting this top tier talent to fall in love with the college experience and forgo the millions waiting for them, you are going to be disappointed over and over again.

As far as wanting to swap places with UNC, well, I suspect you are on your own.

53n206

04-07-2018, 02:44 PM

He played for us and did his best, that's all we can ask for. This is a strange time –OAD. But he, like others, chose Duke, and we supporters of the program should be appreciative of his efforts and wish him all the best in the world.

kAzE

04-07-2018, 02:47 PM

Thank Gary for the great year, and good luck in the NBA.

Really makes sense why we're going after Joe Cremo now . . .

ipatent

04-07-2018, 02:53 PM

Did anyone expect anything different?

devildeac

04-07-2018, 02:54 PM

NBADraft.net has all five Duke starters going in the 1st Round:

http://www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft

8293

For somebody :cool:.

ncexnyc

04-07-2018, 03:07 PM

I'm a firm believer in take the money and run. Just looking at the math and you'll see it's silly for someone not to leave. Divide the average US citizen's annual salary into what NBA benchwarmers are being paid and you'll get the picture.

Now as a fan I love getting these uber kids coming to Duke, but each year we identify issues X, Y, and Z with that year's particular team only to have the next year's group come in with a totally different set of problems. Seems like we're just treading water.

devildeac

04-07-2018, 03:13 PM

8294

Furniture

04-07-2018, 03:24 PM

It must be time for the stay at Duke and get a Duke degree vs. leave and get millions debate...You know it’s coming..

Ian

04-07-2018, 03:27 PM

I don't have any problem with him going. It's his life and he has every right to make that decision. He owes none of us anything. Hope he make the most of his abilities.

But by the same token, I don't owe him anything either. And I do wonder if we weren't better off if he never came, and AOC and Tucker got his minutes. Maybe we win a couple less games, maybe we don't. We would certainly be more prepared to next year, and Tucker might still be here.

MrPoon

04-07-2018, 03:39 PM

The issue is a simple one and it comes down to math. There are those who assume, the GOAT coach + top 20 recruits = FF. If that equation fails, someone is to blame. Typically the blame falls on the players for not living up to the expectations built around recuiting levels.

Others see the equation differently: (GOAT coach +top 20 talent/(experience+injuries))-freak nature of single elimination tournaments = FF. With this equation a season that comes up short has a lot more complex explanations. You can find these posters lamenting GA’s missed shot or the bad Carter foul call rather than about OAD recuiting or something about the player’s choice to go pro (which they always intended to do).

Two different views. I posted earlier how I am sad to see him go but hope he hits is dreams and anticipate him surprising many pundits (and many on this board). I also see him as another great kid who will be an ambasator for the game and for the school.

Oh and spoiler alert, all four incoming freshman right now plan to leave in a year. Even Jones. Expect it, start working on you posts on why its wrong, but that is what is in their collective minds.

moonpie23

04-07-2018, 03:47 PM

best of luck to the young man.....hope to see him in the league, continuing to make the brotherhood look great !!

Ian

04-07-2018, 03:55 PM

Oh and spoiler alert, all four incoming freshman right now plan to leave in a year. Even Jones. Expect it, start working on you posts on why its wrong, but that is what is in their collective minds.

Honestly, that's the reason I am not that excited about next year. Emotionally it feels like a place-holder season, they'll win some games, and then all be gone. I'm more looking forward to November 2019 with hopefully the change in NBA rules and all the OADs go straight to the draft and we can have a team where everyone wants be here instead of looking for the fastest way out.

Furniture

04-07-2018, 05:16 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/982698810668404738/video/1

Kedsy

04-07-2018, 05:24 PM

I'm more looking forward to November 2019 with hopefully the change in NBA rules and all the OADs go straight to the draft and we can have a team where everyone wants be here instead of looking for the fastest way out.

I understand Adam Silver has said he wants to address this, but the current NBA CBA doesn't expire until 2023-24. Why do you think the changes will happen within the next year?

WillJ

04-07-2018, 05:45 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/982698810668404738/video/1

Gary did a nice job with that.

ArkieDukie

04-07-2018, 05:51 PM

Amazing how differently we might feel about these particular players had Grayson's shot rolled in.

Or if the refs had actually called a foul on the shot. They had plenty of chances.

Bay Area Duke Fan

04-07-2018, 06:06 PM

Gary did a nice job with that.

I wonder if he had help from his agent?

GeneBanksManCrush

04-07-2018, 06:18 PM

Ian

04-07-2018, 06:54 PM

Furniture

04-07-2018, 07:52 PM

I wonder if he had help from his agent?

Can you explain this comment?

RamblinRed

04-07-2018, 08:00 PM

Eric Bossi had an interesting analysis over on the Rivals recruiting site. He looked at the last 10 National championship teams. He he had 2 big trends.
First, every team to win a NC in the last 10 yrs had at least 1 5* player in its Top 6.
Second, no team that had more than 3 FR in their top 6 has won a Natl Championship. Duke's 2015 team and KY's 2012 team had 3 FR among their top 6.

Reilly

04-07-2018, 08:39 PM

4Gen

04-07-2018, 09:01 PM

I have an intuition that Wendell is pondering anchoring next year's team. He's a basketball phenom but likes academia and the potential (perhaps likelihood) of a championship.

wavedukefan70s

04-07-2018, 09:08 PM

I have an intuition that Wendell is pondering anchoring next year's team. He's a basketball phenom but likes academia and the potential (perhaps likelihood) of a championship.

He doesn't always agree with mom.he chose duke.i expect he will go.but I have high Hope's he wants to prove he's the man in the middle.maybe he wants a championship.maybe he's more injured than we knew.all speculation to keep my Hope's up.😁

dukelifer

04-07-2018, 09:23 PM

Trent has good fundamentals and is physically ready. He will need to quicken his release and work on his D to have a long career. Not sure playing a year more would have changed the perception of him much unless he is a possible second rounder this year given the depth. He was better than I expected. The potential is there. Good luck to him.

UrinalCake

04-07-2018, 09:37 PM

Trent was #14 in the final RSCI:

I certainly didn’t see him as a “guaranteed” OAD’er. And I thought if he did go OAD then it must mean he had an amazing season and exceeded all expectations, which did not actually happen imo. I guess I need to seriously shift my perception - it used to be that a player would leave if he was a projected lottery pick. After Frank left I started thinking anyone would leave if he was projected in the first round. Now, we need to expect anyone who expects to be drafted at all to go.

Kedsy

04-07-2018, 10:21 PM

Second, no team that had more than 3 FR in their top 6 has won a Natl Championship. Duke's 2015 team and KY's 2012 team had 3 FR among their top 6.

What a bogus stat. First of all, it's a very small sample (10 data points). Second, two national champs (20% of the sample) had three freshmen so that's OK but a fourth freshman would make it impossible to win? Third, one of the teams in the 10 year period with four frosh in their top 6 (2014 Kentucky) made the title game and lost by only six points; think the six points were due to that fourth freshman? Fourth, why stop at 6 players? Maybe because 2012 UK's 7th man was a freshman to go with their 3 in the top 6? 2010 UK (Elite 8) also had four frosh in their top 7, as did the 2015 UK team that went to the Final Four. Finally, how many teams in the last four years had more than three freshmen among their top 6? Of those, how many were high major teams? And how many of those teams made the NCAA tournament? Probably very, very few. And of the only two that I know of, 2014 UK went to the title game and 2018 Duke came within a rimmed-out shot of making the Final Four.

Like I say, it's a bogus stat.

Troublemaker

04-07-2018, 10:45 PM

I certainly didn’t see him as a “guaranteed” OAD’er. And I thought if he did go OAD then it must mean he had an amazing season and exceeded all expectations, which did not actually happen imo. I guess I need to seriously shift my perception - it used to be that a player would leave if he was a projected lottery pick. After Frank left I started thinking anyone would leave if he was projected in the first round. Now, we need to expect anyone who expects to be drafted at all to go.

The public Duke fan estimates for Gary's odds to leave have been way off all season. A lot of people saw that he wasn't that athletic and mostly projected as a 2nd-rounder so they assumed we had a real shot to see sophomore Gary. But really, we had about a 2% shot. He wanted to go, his father wanted him to go, and most second-round draft picks get guaranteed millions. It's as simple as that. (And Gary has an outside chance at being a first-rounder, too).

Hopefully we can get Cremo.

MCFinARL

04-08-2018, 12:54 AM

I have an intuition that Wendell is pondering anchoring next year's team. He's a basketball phenom but likes academia and the potential (perhaps likelihood) of a championship.

i would love to think this is true--and it is possible because apparently next year's draft will be thinner than this year's, so barring injury, the cost of foregoing this year in the pros could be offset by being a higher draft pick. But despite all of the Duke love in the article where Wendell's mom said she thought college was a "con" but in the end thought Duke was great, I think Wendell is gone, gone, gone. My guess is he is postponing his announcement until he has picked an agent.

Bluedog

04-08-2018, 08:07 AM

Best of luck to you, Gary Trent!

Hey, does anyone know what the usual procedure is in this scenario? Does the player typically remain enrolled in school and attend classes or would the bags be packed ASAP?

At Duke, Coach K and staff makes sure they complete their coursework for their semester because if they don't, it hits our APR. So, not sure if all of them actually attend all classes, but they do enough to at least pass them. They make that expectation clear during recruiting.

kshepinthehouse

04-08-2018, 08:43 AM

HereBeforeCoachK

04-08-2018, 08:54 AM

What a bogus stat. First of all, it's a very small sample (10 data points). Second, two national champs (20% of the sample) had three freshmen so that's OK but a fourth freshman would make it impossible to win? Third, one of the teams in the 10 year period with four frosh in their top 6 (2014 Kentucky) made the title game and lost by only six points; think the six points were due to that fourth freshman? Fourth, why stop at 6 players? Maybe because 2012 UK's 7th man was a freshman to go with their 3 in the top 6? 2010 UK (Elite 8) also had four frosh in their top 7, as did the 2015 UK team that went to the Final Four. Finally, how many teams in the last four years had more than three freshmen among their top 6? Of those, how many were high major teams? And how many of those teams made the NCAA tournament? Probably very, very few. And of the only two that I know of, 2014 UK went to the title game and 2018 Duke came within a rimmed-out shot of making the Final Four.

Like I say, it's a bogus stat.

To which I would add.....there was a 4th freshman on the 2015 Title team that saved the day, and freshmen scored every point in the second half of the title game.

Bluedog

04-08-2018, 09:03 AM

Are you sure this is true? I would think they would have a lot of workouts to do and responsibilities to take care of to prepare for the NBA draft, choosing agents, meeting with teams, working out for teams, etc.

You're right, I'm not 100% sure exactly what goes down. I'm sure Coach K and Duke make appropriate accommodations such that they can contribute to their coursework without attending too much class. Heck, they miss a ton of class time during the season too. I do feel confident saying that they can't completely disengage and leave in poor academic standing as Coach K wouldn't stand for that as it'd hurt the program in the future.

tbyers11

04-08-2018, 09:09 AM

Are you sure this is true? I would think they would have a lot of workouts to do and responsibilities to take care of to prepare for the NBA draft, choosing agents, meeting with teams, working out for teams, etc.

I don't know for certain but I agree with Bluedog.

Also, most of those responsibilities aren't until May. The combine is May 16-20 this year.

For Spring 2018 the last day of classes at Duke is April 25th and the final day of exams is May 5th

azzefkram

04-08-2018, 09:09 AM

Best of luck Gary. It would have been great to see you come back and lead the young'uns to a FF and beyond but I can never feel bad about someone chasing their dream.

HereBeforeCoachK

04-08-2018, 09:11 AM

I didn't see any comments on this....but I did a very rapid search....but what is up with his dad's comments about 'being held back' and so on? Maybe I'm over reading, but is sure smacks of criticism.

GeneBanksManCrush

04-08-2018, 09:13 AM

You're right, I'm not 100% sure exactly what goes down. I'm sure Coach K and Duke make appropriate accommodations such that they can contribute to their coursework without attending too much class. Heck, they miss a ton of class time during the season too. I do feel confident saying that they can't completely disengage and leave in poor academic standing as Coach K wouldn't stand for that as it'd hurt the program in the future.

Either way, I'm just glad I'm not Gary's partner in chem lab.

kshepinthehouse

04-08-2018, 09:18 AM

I don't know for certain but I agree with Bluedog.

Also, most of those responsibilities aren't until May. The combine is May 16-20 this year.

For Spring 2018 the last day of classes at Duke is April 25th and the final day of exams is May 5th

I’m not sure if Duke is different or not but I have read where one and dones or players that know they are going to the NBA stop going to class the moment they can in the spring semester. I don’t see why Duke players would be different. If I was a freshman considered to be a top 10 pick why would I want to wake up and go to class, write papers, study for tests, etc when I could be working on what’s going to make me millions. I love Duke like the rest of you but I’m just not sure this is true.

godins

04-08-2018, 09:25 AM

I didn't see any comments on this...but I did a very rapid search...but what is up with his dad's comments about 'being held back' and so on? Maybe I'm over reading, but is sure smacks of criticism.

You could certainly parse them that way, but given the full context of the remarks I believe he's talking more to NBA scouts than he is to Duke. Keep in mind GTSr. has been hearing all year that his son "isn't athletic, just a spot-up shooter, one-dimensional, below-average defender." And sure, one could watch the Duke games and arrive to all of those conclusions, although I think it's a harsh read of GTJr's game. Sr. is saying "look, had my son gone to a lower-profile school and been "the man," you would have seen his full bag of tricks (the midrange, slashing, leadership, defense)." But he wasn't asked to do that at Duke given the presence of other NBA talent, a senior alpha-dog leader, and the fact there's only one ball to share.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15

04-08-2018, 09:44 AM

You could certainly parse them that way, but given the full context of the remarks I believe he's talking more to NBA scouts than he is to Duke. Keep in mind GTSr. has been hearing all year that his son "isn't athletic, just a spot-up shooter, one-dimensional, below-average defender." And sure, one could watch the Duke games and arrive to all of those conclusions, although I think it's a harsh read of GTJr's game. Sr. is saying "look, had my son gone to a lower-profile school and been "the man," you would have seen his full bag of tricks (the midrange, slashing, leadership, defense)." But he wasn't asked to do that at Duke given the presence of other NBA talent, a senior alpha-dog leader, and the fact there's only one ball to share.

That was my read too. More like "you ain't seen nothing yet."

CrazyNotCrazie

04-08-2018, 09:47 AM

I’m not sure if Duke is different or not but I have read where one and dones or players that know they are going to the NBA stop going to class the moment they can in the spring semester. I don’t see why Duke players would be different. If I was a freshman considered to be a top 10 pick why would I want to wake up and go to class, write papers, study for tests, etc when I could be working on what’s going to make me millions. I love Duke like the rest of you but I’m just not sure this is true.

Most of these guys knew they were one and done so I think Duke plans accordingly. Spring semester they take the bare minimum academically and they are likely steered to classes where attendance is less critical and ideally they can just write a paper, take their passing grade and be done.

I'm sure none of them are taking freshman Chem with weekly quizzes, labs, and a cumulative final exam (RIP Dr Bonk).

Sir Stealth

04-08-2018, 10:07 AM

Trent was #14 in the final RSCI: https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/2017-final

Previous #14s in RSCI...

2016 - Frank Jackson - one year in college
2015 - Chase Jeter - still in college
2014 - Isaiah Whitehead - two years in college
2013 - Isaiah Hicks - four years in college
2012 - Cameron Ridley - four years in college
2011 - Josiah Turner - one year in college - issues (https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/josiah-turner-journey-nba-laden-obstacles-since-leaving-094600835.html)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/recruit_rankings_2016.html

I get the sense that players coming to Duke in the OAD era are actually more likely to leave for the NBA than the typical player at their RSCI ranking. These players tend to be ultra-ambitious and state that they come to Duke because they want to test themselves among the best players. They are impressed by the "brotherhood's" presence throughout the NBA and Coach K's connections with star NBA players from the Olympics. They see Duke as a serious atmosphere for excelling at the highest level and to get a lifetime of connections based on just being there one year. And we also get a lot of players like Trent who are already connected to the NBA through family. They also know that elite recruits who deserve to start are coming in behind them. I think that we should expect any player ranked in the top 20 to be OAD in the current system unless they are not considered an NBA prospect at all due to their physical profile.

And it probably doesn't really need to be said, but no, Carter isn't coming back. Duke always spaces out the announcements so that each player gets their own time to have their announcement recognized. Bagley's was first because he is the highest projected pick and most obvious, as the next highest Carter's is probably intentionally scheduled last to be separated as much from Bagley's for attention purposes as possible, and so the order doesn't contribute to a perception that they are descending by prospect rank with someone having to be last.

I want him to stay and believe that he should, but we should also expect Bolden to declare for the draft. It's clear that he also planned to go pro after one year based on his outlook coming in, and only stayed after much contemplation realizing that he just didn't have any draft stock based on an injury-limited first year. He's likely going through the same thing again. My guess is that he won't hire an agent but will see how much interest he gets when his outstanding physical attributes are put front and center and teams see that he can outreach almost all other prospects and has decent skills for his size. It's true that NBA teams these days generally prefer big men who aren't just chained to the post, but there is still room for a player who has dominant size and can protect the rim. Hopefully he sees an opportunity to really improve his situation with a healthy year, more playing time, and a weaker draft.

lotusland

04-08-2018, 11:11 AM

I get the sense that players coming to Duke in the OAD era are actually more likely to leave for the NBA than the typical player at their RSCI ranking. These players tend to be ultra-ambitious and state that they come to Duke because they want to test themselves among the best players. They are impressed by the "brotherhood's" presence throughout the NBA and Coach K's connections with star NBA players from the Olympics. They see Duke as a serious atmosphere for excelling at the highest level and to get a lifetime of connections based on just being there one year. And we also get a lot of players like Trent who are already connected to the NBA through family. They also know that elite recruits who deserve to start are coming in behind them. I think that we should expect any player ranked in the top 20 to be OAD in the current system unless they are not considered an NBA prospect at all due to their physical profile.

And it probably doesn't really need to be said, but no, Carter isn't coming back. Duke always spaces out the announcements so that each player gets their own time to have their announcement recognized. Bagley's was first because he is the highest projected pick and most obvious, as the next highest Carter's is probably intentionally scheduled last to be separated as much from Bagley's for attention purposes as possible, and so the order doesn't contribute to a perception that they are descending by prospect rank with someone having to be last.

I want him to stay and believe that he should, but we should also expect Bolden to declare for the draft. It's clear that he also planned to go pro after one year based on his outlook coming in, and only stayed after much contemplation realizing that he just didn't have any draft stock based on an injury-limited first year. He's likely going through the same thing again. My guess is that he won't hire an agent but will see how much interest he gets when his outstanding physical attributes are put front and center and teams see that he can outreach almost all other prospects and has decent skills for his size. It's true that NBA teams these days generally prefer big men who aren't just chained to the post, but there is still room for a player who has dominant size and can protect the rim. Hopefully he sees an opportunity to really improve his situation with a healthy year, more playing time, and a weaker draft.

I would love to have Carter back but I can’t think of any good reason that he should return. He’s ready in every aspect. His only flaw is being too foul prone (and a hideous chest tattoo).

uh_no

04-08-2018, 11:16 AM

At Duke, Coach K and staff makes sure they complete their coursework for their semester because if they don't, it hits our APR. So, not sure if all of them actually attend all classes, but they do enough to at least pass them. They make that expectation clear during recruiting.

this is true AFAIK, however, the bar for good academic standing at duke is quite low.

https://trinity.duke.edu/undergraduate/academic-policies/continuation-requirements

students must pass 5 credits in their first year. (or 2 per semester, more generally)

Per policy, however, students must ENROLL in at least 4 credit (https://trinity.duke.edu/undergraduate/academic-policies/courses-course-load) though I'm not sure if exceptions are made for athletics.

I'd be shocked if the players were not in a position to pass at least two classes.

(Also, I'll see if I can find out more on this)

JBDuke

04-08-2018, 11:21 AM

...
I want him to stay and believe that he should, but we should also expect Bolden to declare for the draft.

I would love to have Carter back but I can’t think of any good reason that he should return. He’s ready in every aspect. His only flaw is being too foul prone (and a hideous chest tattoo).

I believe Sir Stealth's comment above, which you bolded in your response, is in reference to Bolden, and not Carter. His post's structure is a bit awkward, so I also misread it the first time through.

fraggler

04-08-2018, 11:22 AM

CDu

04-08-2018, 11:22 AM

this is true AFAIK, however, the bar for good academic standing at duke is quite low.

https://trinity.duke.edu/undergraduate/academic-policies/continuation-requirements

students must pass 5 credits in their first year. (or 2 per semester, more generally)

Per policy, however, students must ENROLL in at least 4 credit (https://trinity.duke.edu/undergraduate/academic-policies/courses-course-load) though I'm not sure if exceptions are made for athletics.

I'd be shocked if the players were not in a position to pass at least two classes.

(Also, I'll see if I can find out more on this)

You can only get by with just 2 credits in the first semester. In the second and in every subsequent, you must pass 3. And yes, students can enroll in an underload (3 credits) up to twice with dean’s approval. I would imagine that the second semester is underloaded for bball athletes.

uh_no

04-08-2018, 11:44 AM

You can only get by with just 2 credits in the first semester. In the second and in every subsequent, you must pass 3. And yes, students can enroll in an underload (3 credits) up to twice with dean’s approval. I would imagine that the second semester is underloaded for bball athletes.

There are requirements to be met before a student can apply to enroll at an underload:

"for a 1st underload semester: have already passed at least 16 courses;"

There are provisions for withdrawing to an underload, and it is possible students such as gary withdraw down to the 3 courses. I don't know what circumstances might make this permissible. But why bother if you can just fail the class outright?

CDu

04-08-2018, 12:05 PM

There are requirements to be met before a student can apply to enroll at an underload:

"for a 1st underload semester: have already passed at least 16 courses;"

There are provisions for withdrawing to an underload, and it is possible students such as gary withdraw down to the 3 courses. I don't know what circumstances might make this permissible. But why bother if you can just fail the class outright?

Because it is a low-class move? I am sure “the brotherhood” wouldn’t think highly of someone screwing over the program like that. I am sure that the program has found the easiest path for one-and-dones to pass and keep the APR up.

Acymetric

04-08-2018, 12:28 PM

I don't recall hearing about any of our OADs leaving in poor academic standing (although that does not mean it did not happen), which would lead me to conclude that most of the guys finish out their spring semester. Whether they are taking all easy courses or underloaded I can't speak to, but I do not get the impression that our guys just quit going to class entirely. Could be mistaken though. You can see evidence of this in our APR, because a OAD that leaves in poor academic standing hurts the APR (while a OAD that leaves in good academic standing does not).

DukeFanNotNBAFan

04-08-2018, 02:13 PM

sagegrouse

04-08-2018, 02:17 PM

I don’t get the need to speak out after the fact.
No one forced Wendell (or his mother) to come to Duke. He could have played overseas or in the G-League for money. Why is there a need to bash the process that you voluntarily signed up for?

I don’t think the age requirement should exist in the NBA either, but who’s fault is that?

I don’t care that these guys leave, but I wish their family members would allow them to leave with class. It may be a “con” to them, but there’s some very good players who have come through this program that have willingly taken part in this “con”. I’d say the majority of them probably don’t regret it.

As we discussed when the Momma Carter thread was first posted, she didn't mean that the family was duped but that, in her view, having to go to college for a year was much more "con" than "pro" because of the time lost and the risk of injury.

DukeFanNotNBAFan

04-08-2018, 02:22 PM

As we discussed when the Momma Carter thread was first posted, she didn't mean that the family was duped but that, in her view, having to go to college for a year was much more "con" than "pro" because of the time lost and the risk of injury.

Again, no one ever forced him to go to college. He had multiple avenues available to get paid to play basketball. Ms. Carter is now going to move forward and use the publicity her son received from playing at Duke to snag larger shoe/endorsement money. If that’s a “con”, we should all be lucky enough to get a piece of it one day.

freshmanjs

04-08-2018, 02:34 PM

Again, no one ever forced him to go to college. He had multiple avenues available to get paid to play basketball. Ms. Carter is now going to move forward and use the publicity her son received from playing at Duke to snag larger shoe/endorsement money. If that’s a “con”, we should all be lucky enough to get a piece of it one day.

Seems like you are deliberately using the wrong definition of "con", even after the intended use was pointed out to you.

DukeFanNotNBAFan

04-08-2018, 02:47 PM

Seems like you are deliberately using the wrong definition of "con", even after the intended use was pointed out to you.

You’re wrong. But I appreciate the shrill attitude. Apply “con” with a meaning of disadvantage to my last post and tell me how that’s wrong.

uh_no

04-08-2018, 02:55 PM

Because it is a low-class move? I am sure “the brotherhood” wouldn’t think highly of someone screwing over the program like that. I am sure that the program has found the easiest path for one-and-dones to pass and keep the APR up.

?

I don't think APR considers GPA, only "good academic standing" as determined by the school (just ask UNC). He could fail one class in the spring, pass three, and still be in good academic standing. I'm not sure how that's low-class or "screwing" the program.....

CDu

04-08-2018, 04:35 PM

?

I don't think APR considers GPA, only "good academic standing" as determined by the school (just ask UNC). He could fail one class in the spring, pass three, and still be in good academic standing. I'm not sure how that's low-class or "screwing" the program....

I thought you meant failing all your classes.

UrinalCake

04-08-2018, 10:14 PM

Don’t believe the UNC fans who claim that all Duke players take one semester of communications classes and then stop going to classes after the fall. They like to brag about that, but it isn’t true. If all Duke OAD players stopped going to class then our APR would drop and we would start losing scholarships like what happened to UCONN a few years back.

I remember a few days after winning the 2015 title, Justice Winslow was a guest on an ESPN radio show. The host asked him what he was doing, and Winslow said he was on his way to class. The host was dumbfounded, told him “you just won a title and declared for the draft, you’re going to be a millionaire in a couple months, you don’t have to go to class any more.” And Winslow simply replies that going to class is just what he does.

Similarly, this post explains Bagley’s mindset:
8299

johnb

04-08-2018, 10:19 PM

As a fan, it's hard to get invested in OAD players. Having said that, I very much like the Carter family and wish them well with whatever decision he makes.

Duke79UNLV77

04-08-2018, 10:29 PM

Trent reminds me of a little bit bigger Wayne Ellington. Excellent shooter, an old school midrange game, but limited athleticism and ball handling skills. Ellington is no star, but he’s having a long career. While I would for him to stay and question leaving early to be a second rounder, if he has solid information that he’ll go in the first round, I wouldn’t see him improving his draft position as much as I think Duval could have.

Truth&Justise

04-09-2018, 10:27 AM

Thank you Gary Trent, loved watching you play. You were way too clutch for any freshmen -- possibly Duke's best late-game option last season.

You were responsible for my biggest (positive!) emotional swing of the season. Late in the Sweet 16 game Syracuse hit a shot to cut the lead to 2, with a few seconds left. You get the ball and got fouled and calmly stepped up to the line for a one-and-one. Suddenly, in my heart, I knew that if you missed Syracuse was about to hit a 3. That'd be it, a gut punch to end the season. Duke had been uneasily in control and then suddenly it would be gone.

When you swished the first free-throw I let out a deep exhale. A great weight had been lifted off of my shoulders. I didn't realize how tense I'd been, how quickly my heart had started racing. But you? Calm as could be. Completely unfazed. You smoothly sank the second free throw for good measure.

Thanks for the memories, and good luck in your pro career!

Troublemaker

04-09-2018, 12:24 PM

i would love to think this is true--and it is possible because apparently next year's draft will be thinner than this year's, so barring injury, the cost of foregoing this year in the pros could be offset by being a higher draft pick. But despite all of the Duke love in the article where Wendell's mom said she thought college was a "con" but in the end thought Duke was great, I think Wendell is gone, gone, gone. My guess is he is postponing his announcement until he has picked an agent.

It doesn't have to be anything in particular. The deadline for Wendell to declare for the NBA draft is April 22nd (http://www.nba.com/article/2018/01/23/2018-nba-draft-important-dates-know). If he declared today, he'd be almost two weeks early despite the general feeling among Duke fans that his decision is taking a long time. I think in our personal and work lives, we all know people who handle deadlines differently. Some get things done really early, and some wait until just before the deadline.

As you suggest, I definitely would not even begin to think that he's seriously mulling staying for his sophomore year. Keep expectations low, folks.

I get the sense that players coming to Duke in the OAD era are actually more likely to leave for the NBA than the typical player at their RSCI ranking. These players tend to be ultra-ambitious and state that they come to Duke because they want to test themselves among the best players. They are impressed by the "brotherhood's" presence throughout the NBA and Coach K's connections with star NBA players from the Olympics. They see Duke as a serious atmosphere for excelling at the highest level and to get a lifetime of connections based on just being there one year. And we also get a lot of players like Trent who are already connected to the NBA through family. They also know that elite recruits who deserve to start are coming in behind them. I think that we should expect any player ranked in the top 20 to be OAD in the current system unless they are not considered an NBA prospect at all due to their physical profile.

I think there's something to what you're saying. In particular, I like the angle of there being social/peer pressure to leave from both the fact that your classmates are leaving and that another group of talented freshmen is coming in. I remember an interview with Jahlil that I saw before Jabari declared, and to me Jah very, very unconvincingly claimed that he would like to play with Jabari; it just seemed like the words were something he was supposed to say, so he begrudgingly spat them out. It really wouldn't be surprising to me if there's a "You had your turn, and now it's our time" kind of thing going on as far as social pressure. Not that the "4 Kill4s" were actively texting Gary and telling him to leave. It's just something that's built-in to the situation, maybe.

kako

04-10-2018, 07:45 PM

In particular, I like the angle of there being social/peer pressure to leave from both the fact that your classmates are leaving and that another group of talented freshmen is coming in. I remember an interview with Jahlil that I saw before Jabari declared, and to me Jah very, very unconvincingly claimed that he would like to play with Jabari; it just seemed like the words were something he was supposed to say, so he begrudgingly spat them out. It really wouldn't be surprising to me if there's a "You had your turn, and now it's our time" kind of thing going on as far as social pressure. Not that the "4 Kill4s" were actively texting Gary and telling him to leave. It's just something that's built-in to the situation, maybe.

https://www.theringer.com/college-basketball/2018/3/15/17122806/john-calipari-kentucky-recruiting

John Calipari was adamant. Late in the evening of March 26, 2017, deep in the belly of the FedExForum in Memphis, Calipari called three of his Kentucky freshmen into a private meeting and told them he had something to say. Kentucky had just lost to North Carolina, 75-73, in the Elite Eight. The Tar Heels were going to Phoenix for the Final Four. The Wildcats were going back home to Lexington. In their locker room, players hung their heads in disappointment, replaying lost opportunities, struggling to face the reality that their season had ended two games short of their ultimate goal. But once he’d finished addressing the entire team, Calipari wanted to deliver another message to three of his stars: point guard De’Aaron Fox, shooting guard Malik Monk, and center Bam Adebayo. For many teams, in many years, this would be a moment of talking about the future, of challenging young stars to commit themselves in the offseason to carrying the team even further the next spring. Not now.

“Basically,” says Monk, “he kicked us off the team.”

Kind of. Monk, Fox, and Adebayo were all slated as likely lottery picks in the upcoming NBA draft. They’d arrived in Lexington only a few months ago, and now, Calipari told them, it was time for them to go. “He said, ‘We’ve got another group of recruits coming in,’” Monk remembers. “‘There’s not room for you. You gotta go.’ He really kicked us out.”

I know the article is about Calipari, but I think the situation applies to Duke as well dealing with OADs. Likely K is nicer about it, but it's how OAD works. The "old" freshmen need to leave to make room for the "new" freshmen. For example, Duval cannot stay - he would take minutes away from Jones. And Jones is at Duke to be a OAD - he needs to showcase himself. If there was someone in front of him taking minutes, he wouldn't sign with Duke - he'd go somewhere else. OADs won't sign if they don't think they will get a ton of minutes to show themselves off. A deal with the Devil (as it were)? No, it's just how OAD works if you recruit lottery pick talent.

UrinalCake

04-10-2018, 07:53 PM

I don’t believe Trent is being kicked out when we are actually trying to bring in a grad transfer to replace him. There would definitely have been a spot on the team for him. As for Duval, he himself has talked all year about this being his only season. After the UNC game he said it would be his only time playing them in Cameron. His plan all along has been to stay for one year.

Wander

04-10-2018, 08:01 PM

I know the article is about Calipari, but I think the situation applies to Duke as well dealing with OADs. Likely K is nicer about it, but it's how OAD works. The "old" freshmen need to leave to make room for the "new" freshmen. For example, Duval cannot stay - he would take minutes away from Jones. And Jones is at Duke to be a OAD - he needs to showcase himself. If there was someone in front of him taking minutes, he wouldn't sign with Duke - he'd go somewhere else. OADs won't sign if they don't think they will get a ton of minutes to show themselves off. A deal with the Devil (as it were)? No, it's just how OAD works if you recruit lottery pick talent.

Except it doesn't really make any sense, from either the standpoint of showcasing guys for the draft or maximizing how good the college team would be. Jones is going to get lots of minutes no matter what, even if it were to involve playing some lineups with both him and Duval. Kentucky's team could have used any of those guys to make their Sweet 16 team (i.e., a worse finish than the year before when those players were supposedly kicked off) better. A sophomore Duval could very well have been the best college player on next year's Duke team, and I say that as one of the people who thought he was a pretty bad PG this season.

I'm not saying Calipari didn't really say those things, but if he did, they're pretty dumb.

uh_no

04-10-2018, 10:27 PM

I know the article is about Calipari, but I think the situation applies to Duke as well dealing with OADs. Likely K is nicer about it, but it's how OAD works.

That's baseless speculation, and that's not how DUKE works. Period. No incoming player is guaranteed any minutes, they never have been, and likely never will while K is here. There are recruits who have come out and said one of the reasons they came to duke was because K promised them nothing while every other coach promised them minutes/touches/stardom/awards. Some of them transfer.

Players leave because they're ready and willing, not because they've been kicked off the team.

kako

04-10-2018, 11:56 PM

Except it doesn't really make any sense, from either the standpoint of showcasing guys for the draft or maximizing how good the college team would be. Jones is going to get lots of minutes no matter what, even if it were to involve playing some lineups with both him and Duval. Kentucky's team could have used any of those guys to make their Sweet 16 team (i.e., a worse finish than the year before when those players were supposedly kicked off) better. A sophomore Duval could very well have been the best college player on next year's Duke team, and I say that as one of the people who thought he was a pretty bad PG this season.

I'm not saying Calipari didn't really say those things, but if he did, they're pretty dumb.

I guess my take on the article is that for the OAD mentality, they may pick places that will showcase their value. They may look at the class ahead of them, and they think, "Will I get to play if I go here, or will I have to sit behind an established upperclassman?" If they think the latter, they may choose another program. I don't think it matters if it's UK or Duke so much, it's about the player being able to move to the next level after their freshman year. But I can believe it was Cal's expectation that his expected OADs would actually leave as they had good seasons; first, because as OADs that's their goal, and second since the program has already recruited their replacements with other OADs. A program definitely gets to tout having OAD lottery picks as a recruiting tool, e.g. Duke having OAD lottery picks 7 out of the last 8 years has to be a positive that OADs look for. And if a OAD stays, sure, there will be a competition (assuming not too many stay since a team may not have enough scholarships!). And yes, the best players will play. But in the end, if a program deals with so many OADs, some given number have to move through the system one way or another and clear out for the next ones. Otherwise, OADs will pick somewhere else.

Note that I'm not pointing specifically at Trent for any of this - one could definitely say he would have complemented next year's class. I was just reading the end of this thread, remembered the article, and thought it was interesting. Like a previous poster said, I think some of this is built into the OAD system.

sagegrouse

04-11-2018, 12:23 AM

https://www.theringer.com/college-basketball/2018/3/15/17122806/john-calipari-kentucky-recruiting

I know the article is about Calipari, but I think the situation applies to Duke as well dealing with OADs. Likely K is nicer about it, but it's how OAD works. The "old" freshmen need to leave to make room for the "new" freshmen. For example, Duval cannot stay - he would take minutes away from Jones. And Jones is at Duke to be a OAD - he needs to showcase himself. If there was someone in front of him taking minutes, he wouldn't sign with Duke - he'd go somewhere else. OADs won't sign if they don't think they will get a ton of minutes to show themselves off. A deal with the Devil (as it were)? No, it's just how OAD works if you recruit lottery pick talent.

Except that K wouldn't do that -- and the Duke Administration and Board would go ape if it were revealed that we were forcing out students in good standing to make way for other ath-a-letes. Moreover, the facts are wrong -- we would love to have at least three of the four players return: Centers Bagley and Carter (we havn't recruited a center) and dead-eye outside shooter Gary Trent. None of the the three replicate our new recruits. And, even under the most cynical reasoning, it would be great to have both Tre and Trevon on the roster next year.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15

04-11-2018, 06:12 AM

Except that K wouldn't do that -- and the Duke Administration and Board would go ape if it were revealed that we were forcing out students in good standing to make way for other ath-a-letes. Moreover, the facts are wrong -- we would love to have at least three of the four players return: Centers Bagley and Carter (we havn't recruited a center) and dead-eye outside shooter Gary Trent. None of the the three replicate our new recruits. And, even under the most cynical reasoning, it would be great to have both Tre and Trevon on the roster next year.

I agree with you in principle - and obviously this is only a hypothetical argument, unfortunately. But, in a more practical sense, beyond the egos and playing time, wouldn't there be too few seats if everyone came back?

freshmanjs

04-11-2018, 07:54 AM

No incoming player is guaranteed any minutes, they never have been, and likely never will while K is here. There are recruits who have come out and said one of the reasons they came to duke was because K promised them nothing while every other coach promised them minutes/touches/stardom/awards. Some of them transfer.

Players leave because they're ready and willing, not because they've been kicked off the team.

"My whole freshman year at Duke, it was drilled into me that nothing was given to you and you have to earn it, and this is a dog-eat-dog world, and blah blah blah, and blah blah blah," Laettner explained, nearly 25 years after his first season under Coach K. "And you buy into it, 100 percent. You end up loving it. That’s the way it should be, right? Just because you’re good in high school doesn’t mean the coach owes you playing time during your freshman year. I bought into everything Coach K preached to us. His whole philosophy."

Laettner takes a sip of water. "Lo and behold, a month into my sophomore year, we’re playing pick-up and this little Bobby Hurley kid isn’t doing that great. When the coaches weren’t around, he wasn’t playing well at all. We all were in agreement, ‘Who cares? We’ve got other players who’ll play point guard and we will do just fine.’ And then, sure enough, even before we start stretching, Coach grabs the ball and does this ceremonious gesture where he hands the ball to Bobby like it was a torch. He just handed the reins to the entire club to this little guard who, quite honestly, had not been playing all that well."

As Laettner speaks, Hill perks up, hanging on to his every word.

"I almost fell over when he did that," Laettner said. "Everything Coach K preached to us from the last year, that I fell for 100 percent, just went down the drain. It was shocking to me. And I never let Bobby forget that moment. Never. I rode him hard for a real long time. And half of it was purely from that one gesture, because I was jealous that it hadn’t happened to me, or that I felt like Coach K lied to us in some way.

link (https://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/christian-laettner-grant-hill-reflect-on-time-at-duke-022512)

camion

04-11-2018, 08:03 AM

link (https://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/christian-laettner-grant-hill-reflect-on-time-at-duke-022512)

I thought we were talking about promising recruits playing time in order to get them to commit to a college. Wasn't Hurley already on the Duke team as a player when this story occurs?

freshmanjs

04-11-2018, 08:25 AM

I thought we were talking about promising recruits playing time in order to get them to commit to a college. Wasn't Hurley already on the Duke team as a player when this story occurs?

Not arguing the point. I think it's interesting that many of the tropes that Duke fans love to think are so unique are, in reality, more nuanced

construe

04-11-2018, 09:08 AM

link (https://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/christian-laettner-grant-hill-reflect-on-time-at-duke-022512)

While the link is a bit off-topic, I had never read it before, so thanks, freshmanjs. Folks, you gotta read it. Laettner is still the baddest mf-er to play for Duke...and he's hilarious. I was laughing out loud at some of his quotes.

And man do I wish we could find another bad-a__ like him...

uh_no

04-11-2018, 10:07 AM

Not arguing the point. I think it's interesting that many of the tropes that Duke fans love to think are so unique are, in reality, more nuanced

sure, but arguing about that particular anecdote is a straw man when the accusation is "duke kicks players off the team" like UK does.

Would K have done that if we had tyus jones or kyrie irving as a returning senior? Who knows. Maybe he felt the best way for hurley to shine was to give him a confidence boost. maybe he just wanted to piss off christrian to motivate him. I think there are a lot of us that would be done with this program if there was ever an instance of K kicking a player off the team like that.

freshmanjs

04-11-2018, 10:10 AM

sure, but arguing about that particular anecdote is a straw man when the accusation is "duke kicks players off the team" like UK does.

Would K have done that if we had tyus jones or kyrie irving as a returning senior? Who knows. Maybe he felt the best way for hurley to shine was to give him a confidence boost. maybe he just wanted to piss off christrian to motivate him. I think there are a lot of us that would be done with this program if there was ever an instance of K kicking a player off the team like that.

No -- my post was not in response to any comment regarding kicking players off the team. It was in response to a comment that "no incoming player is guaranteed minutes."

HereBeforeCoachK

04-11-2018, 10:38 AM

Would K have done that if we had tyus jones or kyrie irving as a returning senior? Who knows. Maybe he felt the best way for hurley to shine was to give him a confidence boost. maybe he just wanted to piss off christrian to motivate him.

FWIW, K has responded to that Laettner quote by saying that Hurley "earned it with how he played in HS" - and indicating that Christian didn't know anything about that. Whatever it was, it worked, Hurley got Duke to 3 consecutive Final Games with 2 championships, and Laettner left Duke fully praising Coach K. I mean, does Bobby have the cojones to take the big 3 versus Vegas when Duke was down 5 late? Who knows. I shudder to think what might've happened without that move.

FerryFor50

04-11-2018, 10:45 AM

I agree with you in principle - and obviously this is only a hypothetical argument, unfortunately. But, in a more practical sense, beyond the egos and playing time, wouldn't there be too few seats if everyone came back?

I think, more likely than K kicking guys off the team, incoming recruits would have a decision to make - do I re-open my recruitment or do I really want to be at Duke, even if it means I don't get huge minutes?

I doubt K would ever say anything as dumb as what Calipari allegedly said. But it's entirely believable that Cal said it, given what stupid garbage Cal has said in the past.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15

04-11-2018, 11:48 AM

I think, more likely than K kicking guys off the team, incoming recruits would have a decision to make - do I re-open my recruitment or do I really want to be at Duke, even if it means I don't get huge minutes?

I doubt K would ever say anything as dumb as what Calipari allegedly said. But it's entirely believable that Cal said it, given what stupid garbage Cal has said in the past.

Clearly K has more tact than Cal. I just meant mathematically were there spaces for everyone?

CDu

04-11-2018, 01:13 PM

The scholarship situation is as follows:
Vrankovic
Bolden
DeLaurier
White
O'Connell
Goldwire
Barrett
Williamson
Reddish
Jones
Robinson*

That leaves 3* scholarships open. Bagley was a known one-and-done. There are only 3 other freshmen who were considering going pro. All could have stayed and we'd still be within the scholarship limits.

* Robinson was a walk-on who chose Duke with the understanding that he was not going to be given a scholarship in any season unless they had one left over. So while he has been on scholarship the past two seasons, he knows that next year "his" scholarship is available to a recruit.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15

04-11-2018, 03:39 PM