Men's Final Four 2018 Thread (Loyola-Chicago, Michigan, Villanova, Kansas)

[brevity]

I decided to start this men's Final Four thread after mentioning the lack of one in another thread.

It was hardly a chalk outcome, but you will find four 1s in the Final Four. Of course, two of those 1s are next to each other in 11-seed Loyola-Chicago.

Objectively, and with a side of UNC schadenfreude, this has been a pretty great NCAA Tournament. It may continue to be entertaining, and I plan to watch what I can.

Saturday, March 31
Loyola-Chicago vs. Michigan (6:09pm ET, TBS)
Villanova vs. Kansas (approx. 7:49pm ET, TBS)

Monday, April 2
Championship game (8pm ET, TBS)

Not sure about chat, so I'll end with a trivia question here.

Trivia: 2018 Final Four team Loyola-Chicago represents the Missouri Valley Conference. Prior to 2018, which current member school of the MVC was the most recent to reach a Final Four? (Wichita State, a MVC school in 2013, is no longer in the MVC.)

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I think the answer to the trivia question would be Larry Bird's Indiana State Sycamores, in the iconic Bird v Magic Final.

Note about Loyola: read a good bit about how that team is put together this past week...I get the sense Porter Moser is one of the very best coaches in the country. It was interesting to hear K State coach Weber talk about how well prepared Loyola was for them on two day turnaround.

And I think Nova rips Kansas today.

[NM Duke Fan]

I am rooting for Loyola with Duke out, and have been impressed with their coach as well. I do expect they will be very well prepared with an intelligent and crafty strategy. This is a real Team, very bonded and they pass as well as any team in the country. I give them a chance to win tonight, after that it would take the game of the century against probably Villanova, but upsets do happen!

[Wander]

Unlike the previous 11 seeds to make the Final Four, Loyola hasn't really had a single-game huge upset yet (LSU, George Mason, and VCU had to beat 1 seeds Kentucky, UConn, and Kansas). Maybe they still have it in them?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Unlike the previous 11 seeds to make the Final Four, Loyola hasn't really had a single-game huge upset yet (LSU, George Mason, and VCU had to beat 1 seeds Kentucky, UConn, and Kansas). Maybe they still have it in them?

I'd like to think so, but I suspect their run is done. Other 11 seeds seem to have succeeded by being taken for granted. I think there is zero chance that Michigan overlooks Loyola in the Final Four.

[KenTankerous]

It's just rock-paper-scissor-lizard-Spock, here folks.

Michigan covers Loyola (sorry Sister Mean jean who reminds me of every butt-kickin' I took in catholic school)

Villanova covers Kansas (too much talent spread over that much floor, y'all aint that long.)

Then Nova CRUSHES Michigan - after all this loveliness that was this season and one of the best tournaments EVER - most boring Monday in April ever.

Until next week when we have nothing but sitcoms and the second week of baseball...

[BigZ]

I think Nova wins both their games easily

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Until next week when we have nothing but sitcoms and the second week of baseball...

Ugh... The doldrums.

[ncexnyc]

The so-called experts have Nova winning a close game, while Loyola goes down easily to the Wolverines. It should be interesting to see how the new venue changes the play of the four teams, if at all

I'll take the Custer led Loyola team in an upset and Nova with a comfortable win over KU. I do realize people have been disrespecting Kansas all season long, but I've liked what I've seen from Nova this tourney.

Of course on Monday night Custer gets scalped by Nova.

[jhmoss1812]

I'm definitely rooting for Loyola

If Loyola wins, this tournament may actually end up being about them winning it all.

If one of the other teams win, this tournament will most likely be remembered most for UVA losing as a 1-seed to a 16-seed.

[ipatent]

I think Nova wins, but KU is certainly capable of an upset.

[richardjackson199]

I'm definitely rooting for Loyola

If Loyola wins, this tournament may actually end up being about them winning it all.

If one of the other teams win, this tournament will most likely be remembered most for UVA losing as a 1-seed to a 16-seed.

I think in all likelihood this tourney is shaping up to be remembered as Jay Wright establishing Villanova as the hottest college basketball program in America. They earned a good draw with mostly consistent play this year, and they're about to parlay that into 2nd Natty in 3 years. Let's just hope many of them go pro, because none of them have to leave.

Everybody knew a 16 would eventually beat a 1. It was inevitable, just bad luck for UVA. It will get a spot in One Shining Moment. It will be mentioned every time a 16 plays a 1 for the next few years. But it's not going to even be the biggest story of this crazy tourney.

UVA and Bennett will be back with a vengeance next year. So will Duke, hopefully.

[Devilwin]

Can honestly say I couldn't care less about this year's Final Four than ever before. Still believe we were the only squad that could beat Villanova. Doubt I will watch any of it..I will most likely just watch our victory over UNC I recorded over and over..

[weezie]

Can honestly say I couldn't care less about this year's Final Four than ever before...

Yep. Planning on not giving a single whit.

Going to bed early so I can get a headstart on ending Lent with Easter bloody marys!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Can honestly say I couldn't care less about this year's Final Four than ever before. Still believe we were the only squad that could beat Villanova. Doubt I will watch any of it..I will most likely just watch our victory over UNC I recorded over and over..

I feel ya bros. When Duke is Final Four worthy, but does not make it, I can't stand to watch. I won't even watch The Masters - because the voice of Jim Nantz will haunt me.

Normally, I watch a lot of both!

[dukelifer]

Loyola can’t hit anything

[rsvman]

They can't buy a shot.

[dukelifer]

They can't buy a shot.

Still in it despite almost 8 min without a FG

[Dukehky]

Roger Ayers is calling this game!? Are you effing serious? He gets to ref a Final Four game after the absolute crap show he put on last weekend?

This is total BS. He's a joke, his grade had to have been atrocious, especially after that call on Carter.

Basketball is stupid. Go Loyola, I guess?

[gotoguy]

Go Ramblers. Need to keep Wagner off the offensive glass or get him ifoul trouble

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Wow. Loyola is really good on D. If they could hit their (Easter) bunnies, they would be up ten.

Rebounds will be their biggest challenge.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Amazing half. Loyola not intimidated by the stage. Maybe Sister Jean has some Easter Mojo going.

[wavedukefan70s]

Dude at work asked me to go in with him putting a few hundred on Loyola at 28 to 1.im kicking my self .

[gotoguy]

My undergrad degree is from Duke and I have a grad degree from LU-C. I love this team! Another agonizing half to survive. Go Ramblers!!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

They are relentless. They will not be intimidated. This must be like rooting for Butler against Duke. The whole world wants Michigan to lose unless you are a fan or you have money on it.

[dukelifer]

Bad stretch there. Michigan is starting to hit now.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Bad stretch there. Michigan is starting to hit now.

Yup. Here we go...

[wavedukefan70s]

anti jinx on myself.
wheels are wobbling on the bus.

[dukelifer]

Yup. Here we go...

Will need to hit 3’s but have only hit one

[dukelifer]

Wagner saved them- tough match up. Has a little Laettner in him

[wavedukefan70s]

Disappointed. I haven't liked Michigan since the fab 5.

[Bluedog]

Not to be a debbie downer, but we would have crushed either of these teams. Can you imagine Bagley against Loyola's big man?! Wow....(Of course getting through Nova is another story). Having said that, Michigan is always dangerous if they shoot 3s like they did against A&M but I expect Kansas/Nova winner to be a large favorite.

[wavedukefan70s]

I have nova over kansas.

[wavedukefan70s]

Not to be a debbie downer, but we would have crushed either of these teams. Can you imagine Bagley against Loyola's big man?! Wow...(Of course getting through Nova is another story). Having said that, Michigan is always dangerous if they shoot 3s like they did against A&M but I expect Kansas/Nova winner to be a large favorite.

I thought the same thing .we could crush either team.

[NM Duke Fan]

I thought the same thing .we could crush either team.

Agreed.

Now with Loyola out I seem to have little interest in the final two games, probably Villanova's year though and they do deserve it with the way they have played this year and this tournament

[gotoguy]

Nice adjustments by Beilein at half. Defense tightened and better shots for the Maize and Blue. Great run by the Ramblers

[dudog84]

I have nova over kansas.

Is it too late to put a bet down on Kansas? :cool:

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I keep telling myself Nova would have thrashed us. My only saving grace right now.

[wavedukefan70s]

Is it too late to put a bet down on Kansas? :cool:

I got a few old Acc handbooks not sure of the years.ill bet 1.random pick.or a surprise that's just as good.😁

[dukelifer]

I keep telling myself Nova would have thrashed us. My only saving grace right now.

Only if they can shoot in this dome. Looks like it was a bit difficult in the last game.

[wavedukefan70s]

Only if they can shoot in this dome. Looks like it was a bit difficult in the last game.

They seem to have it down.

[WVDUKEFAN]

Villanova is on fire.

[dukelifer]

Villanova is on fire.

The are relentless on both ends

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I keep telling myself Nova would have thrashed us. My only saving grace right now.

Um... Like I said

[ChrisP]

Kansas looks defeated already to me but...what I really wanna know is who stole the horn out of my Volkswagen and put it in the Alamodome?

[rolm]

Kansas has not been a good rebounding team this season, yet they outrebounded us by a huge margin. The rebounding on the offensive end really hurt us. Today, Villanova is killing them on the boards. Was our zone defense responsible for our poor rebounding effort? To my untrained eye, it appeared that Kansas stole a page out of Carolina's recipe for success against us, especially from the ACC tournament game, and found the right seams to get into for the offensive boards. Those who have re-watched the two games might be in a better position to comment on this. I strongly believe that it was primarily our rebounding effort that cost us the game last week.

[proelitedota]

Good good.

Kansas needs to be obliterated.

[wavedukefan70s]

Better them than us lol

[chrishoke]

Who is the announcer openly pulling for Kansas?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Seven guys hit ten threes already? Sheesh

[VA_BDevil]

Kansas looks defeated already to me but...what I really wanna know is who stole the horn out of my Volkswagen and put it in the Alamodome?

funny! That is a wimpy sounding horn.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Who is the announcer openly pulling for Kansas?

Are you on the Kansas broadcast?

[VA_BDevil]

Who is the announcer openly pulling for Kansas?

you must be listening to last week's Duke-Kansas game, where there seemed to be 3 pulling for the Jayhawks.

[Steven43]

How about Jay Wright to replace Coach K? I’ve been thinking it off and on since they absolutely obliterated us in the tournament in 2009. Let’s say K coaches two more years and then calls it a day. Yes, Wright would be 59 at that time, but would likely still have 10 or even 15 years left. I don’t think there’s a better college coach out there right now. So why not? Sure, Villanova has a good program, but they’re not Duke. Taking the job at Duke would be a step up for Wright in every way, including pay. We’ll see.

[wavedukefan70s]

you must be listening to last week's Duke-Kansas game, where there seemed to be 3 pulling for the Jayhawks.

Tru.TV is nova broadcast.

[wavedukefan70s]

Seven guys hit ten threes already? Sheesh

12 I believe.another wow.

[InSpades]

Nova is 2 of 4 from 2 point range :P. (make that 3 of 5 after the Spellman dunk)

[chrishoke]

Are you on the Kansas broadcast?

Tx. I am. I didn't know they had such a thing. I'm in a hotel room so just stopped on the first channel that had the game. I can't find the national broadcast.

[Bluedog]

Tx. I am. I didn't know they had such a thing. I'm in a hotel room so just stopped on the first channel that had the game. I can't find the national broadcast.

TBS. They've had the "teamcast" broadcasts for several years now that it's on multiple networks. I kinda like the idea personally.

Nova finally missing some 3s. Had two in and out. Still, looking good.

[YmoBeThere]

Kansas looks defeated already to me but...what I really wanna know is who stole the horn out of my Volkswagen and put it in the Alamodome?


Agreed, as a San Antonian it is embarrassing.

[dukelifer]

How about Jay Wright to replace Coach K? I’ve been thinking it off and on since they absolutely obliterated us in the tournament in 2009. Let’s say K coaches two more years and then calls it a day. Yes, Wright would be 59 at that time, but would likely still have 10 or even 15 years left. I don’t think there’s a better college coach out there right now. So why not? Sure, Villanova has a good program, but they’re not Duke. Taking the job at Duke would be a step up for Wright in every way, including pay. We’ll see.

He will get paid better at Duke but if he wins another title- Nova is now elite.

[richardjackson199]

How about Jay Wright to replace Coach K? I’ve been thinking it off and on since they absolutely obliterated us in the tournament in 2009. Let’s say K coaches two more years and then calls it a day. Yes, Wright would be 59 at that time, but would likely still have 10 or even 15 years left. I don’t think there’s a better college coach out there right now. So why not? Sure, Villanova has a good program, but they’re not Duke. Taking the job at Duke would be a step up for Wright in every way, including pay. We’ll see.

I would certainly be ok with that.

[Ian]

He will get paid better at Duke but if he wins another title- Nova is now elite.

It would be like saying K can be hired away from Duke after 92 by a Kentucky or UCLA because there were more "elite". I don't think you leave a program where you have already built into a blueblood.

[Reilly]

... Going to bed early so I can get a headstart on ending Lent with Easter bloody marys!

Enjoy the bloody's ...

Another reason to join the papists: for some, Lent ended Thursday (as my depleted bourbon stash, beer/lettuce crisper, and Hershey's Kiss candy dish attest) ...

http://www.nola.com/religion/index.ssf/2016/03/when_does_lent_end_its_complic.html

[dukelifer]

It would be like saying K can be hired away from Duke after 92 by a Kentucky or UCLA because there were more "elite". I don't think you leave a program where you have already built into a blueblood.
Unless Nova cant pay him. He makes 2.5M now. Duke could easily double that. Now 2.5M is a lot and he has something going at Nova. Duke will likely have him on the list.

[richardjackson199]

It would be like saying K can be hired away from Duke after 92 by a Kentucky or UCLA because there were more "elite". I don't think you leave a program where you have already built into a blueblood.

Maybe not, but if you're Duke I think you ask him. We could pay better and it would probably be easier for him to recruit at Duke. The ACC and Duke-UNCheat rivalry would be a fun challenge.

I wouldn't trade K for anybody. But whenever he retires, I don't think we could do better than Jay Wright.

K is a tough act to follow, so I like the idea of not replacing him with a more unproven former player. It's a lot of pressure, and we don't ever want to find ourselves saying, Doh!

[tbyers11]

Unless Nova cant pay him. He makes 2.5M now. Duke could easily double that. Now 2.5M is a lot and he has something going at Nova. Duke will likely have him on the list.

Jay Wright isn't leaving Nova

[UrinalCake]

Strongly disagree with the notion that Duke would be a "step up in every way" for Wright. As hard as it is to accept, they are a better program than us right now. If you were an alien who landed from outer space and had to choose a team to start rooting for, there's a better chance it would be Villanova than Duke. And Wright has built a legacy there that he is unlikely to want to leave.

[Steven43]

He will get paid better at Duke but if he wins another title- Nova is now elite.
Okay, so they would be ‘elite’. So what? They would still be well below Duke in every possible measure. Not all ‘elite’ schools are equal. In my mind, Duke is absolutely at the pinnacle of college basketball, the crown jewel. Villanova cannot compare. Just like UConn does not even come close to comparing to Duke even though they have won four national championships since 1999. It’s like comparing a fully-loaded Chrysler 300 (Villanova) to an S-class Mercedes (Duke). No comparison. If Duke offers he will come.

[UrinalCake]

Better them than us lol

I dunno, even if it meant we would get destroyed in this game, I would still rather have made it there. If anything this game is making me pissed that we couldn't beat this Kansas team.

[KandG]

Seven guys hit ten threes already? Sheesh

Yeah, this is why I didn't linger too much over Duke's loss last weekend. Nova would have done the same thing to our team. Too much to ask a young team, no matter how talented, to guard a team with that many mobile shooters and a leader like Brunson.

We might have put up a better showing than Kansas, but don't think it would have been that much better.

[dukelifer]

I dunno, even if it meant we would get destroyed in this game, I would still rather have made it there. If anything this game is making me pissed that we couldn't beat this Kansas team.

Duke's D let Newman open - Nova is not letting him go off. But they are unconscious from 3. If Duke hit a couple more- they would be playing Nova right now.

[richardjackson199]

they are playing like the Warriors

[Ian]

I dunno, even if it meant we would get destroyed in this game, I would still rather have made it there. If anything this game is making me pissed that we couldn't beat this Kansas team.

Yeah, they aren't that good, but then again, neither were we.

[Steven43]

Strongly disagree with the notion that Duke would be a "step up in every way" for Wright. As hard as it is to accept, they are a better program than us right now. If you were an alien who landed from outer space and had to choose a team to start rooting for, there's a better chance it would be Villanova than Duke. And Wright has built a legacy there that he is unlikely to want to leave.

There is NO WAY Villanova has a better program. Duke is a much more prestigious school, has better basketball tradition, has better facilities, is part of the best rivalry in all of sports, is in a better conference, offers a better place to live, and has a LOT more money. No comparison at all.

[richardjackson199]

Yeah, this is why I didn't linger too much over Duke's loss last weekend. Nova would have done the same thing to our team. Too much to ask a young team, no matter how talented, to guard a team with that many mobile shooters and a leader like Brunson.

We might have put up a better showing than Kansas, but don't think it would have been that much better.

It's kind of a moot argument since we'll never know. Coach K hasn't been blown out in the Final 4 in a while, and I don't think this was the team to do it.

Maybe the only consistent thing with our Duke team is that we could compete with anybody. Nobody blew us out when healthy. Duke had another gear, that we never figured out how to use enough, but it was there. I think Villanova would have brought out Duke's A+ game for 40 minutes. It could have been a fun game. But we'll never know.

[Bluedog]

Villanova is up by 20, but has yet to attempt a FT. Crazy....

[hallcity]

I hadn't paid that much attention to the argument that the 3 point line should be moved out until this game. Shooting has always been and will always be a major part of basketball but this is just too much. Let's go to the international line.

[rsvman]

I think we would have fared better than this, because I thunk we are a better team than Kansas.

[rsvman]

Game may not be over.
To be down only 14 after the way Villanova had been shooting it?
What if they revert?

[Bluedog]

I hadn't paid that much attention to the argument that the 3 point line should be moved out until this game. Shooting has always been and will always be a major part of basketball but this is just too much. Let's go to the international line.

They did move it back already fairly recently. ;) (Not saying I necessarily disagree, just saying they recently made a change a few years ago or so).

[UrinalCake]

Duke had another gear, that we never figured out how to use enough, but it was there. I think Villanova would have brought out Duke's A+ game for 40 minutes. It could have been a fun game. But we'll never know.

Yeah who knows. Maybe Grayson and Trent come out on fire. Maybe we pound it inside and get Paschal and Spellman in foul trouble before they can hit all those threes. Anything's possible. I remember in 2010 we didn't have a single game all season where our "big three" all shot well in the same game... until the Final Four game against West Virginia.

[UrinalCake]

I hadn't paid that much attention to the argument that the 3 point line should be moved out until this game. Shooting has always been and will always be a major part of basketball but this is just too much. Let's go to the international line.

Can we wait until AFTER next season? :)

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

I think we would have fared better than this, because I thunk we are a better team than Kansas.

More talented team. Not better when it mattered.

[InSpades]

No one was beating Villanova tonight. They are the best offensive team in the country and they are showing exactly why.

They are at something close to 1.3 points per possession.

We might have given them a better run but there's no way we're competing w/ this. Great team playing a great game.

[rsvman]

Well, Kansas still had a chance, but not if you let them have uncontested slams.

[rsvman]

I notice that Coach Wright also believes in stall ball.

[Ian]

I notice that Coach Wright also believes in stall ball.

Stall is great when you have experienced guards who make great decisions. Duke's stall ball in 2015 with Cook and Tyus worked great.

[KandG]

It's kind of a moot argument since we'll never know. Coach K hasn't been blown out in the Final 4 in a while, and I don't think this was the team to do it.

Maybe the only consistent thing with our Duke team is that we could compete with anybody. Nobody blew us out when healthy. Duke had another gear, that we never figured out how to use enough, but it was there. I think Villanova would have brought out Duke's A+ game for 40 minutes. It could have been a fun game. But we'll never know.

It's a fun thought experiment. But Kansas stretched our zone to its breaking point without the type of firepower Villanova has. So many guys with size, playmaking ability, and the ability to attack close outs. They're hard to press, and their three point range would have tested our zone like no other team. Plus I think Brunson vs our guards would have been a rout, and I was one of the biggest defenders of Duval all season.

The few times I allowed myself to daydream about Duke vs Nova, I imagined Nova's threes not falling and giving us a chance. But I couldn't envision them beating themselves or having lapses like our team was sometimes prone to do. Good coaching and a solid gameplan can only do so much.

As you said though, all a moot point and no one wins this argument. I'm still relieved we're not the ones getting blown out on a stage this big. I'm willing to acknowledge it's partially rationalization on my part so I don't have to think about what could have been.

[tteettimes]

Two Duke Grads Hall of Fame tonight.....smile...sigh..

[Bluedog]

I notice that Coach Wright also believes in stall ball.

They're doing some stall ball but also driving a lot when they see they have an advantage. Not quite the full Duke stall ball of taking full shot clock every time down. ;) Last two possessions took less than 7 seconds.

[richardjackson199]

Yeah who knows. Maybe Grayson and Trent come out on fire. Maybe we pound it inside and get Paschal and Spellman in foul trouble before they can hit all those threes. Anything's possible. I remember in 2010 we didn't have a single game all season where our "big three" all shot well in the same game... until the Final Four game against West Virginia.

Ahh 2010 over WVU... Maybe the most fun I've ever had during a Duke game. I watched it with my best friends at ESPN Sports Zone in Vegas (no longer there) during my bachelor party. We had the whole place rocking.

Yep. This 2018 Duke team could lose to any good team. But we could definitely also beat any. This Nova team should win it all. But they are beatable, and they were beaten by St. Johns, Butler, Creighton, and Providence. They could lose to Michigan, especially if Michigan gets hot. But Nova should win.

It just sucks we missed the Final 4 and never got a chance to play them for it.

It shows why it's so important to take care of business in conference and earn that 1 seed. We got lucky playing Syracuse in Sweet 16, but drawing a road through MSU (if chalk), Kansas, Nova to get to final game is about the toughest odds you can ask for.

Hopefully next year is ours.

[DukeWarhead]

Agree that Duke would not have beaten Villanova if they played like this. Their offense to so well done.

[Bluedog]

It shows why it's so important to take care of business in conference and earn that 1 seed. We got lucky playing Syracuse in Sweet 16, but drawing a road through MSU (if chalk), Kansas, Nova to get to final game is about the toughest odds you can ask for.

Hopefully next year is ours.

I mean, being the 1 in the Midwest with Kansas as our 2 wouldn't have been much different. I agree it's usually an advantage but not like Nova has had an easy route. Heck, Michigan as a 3 seed has faced a 14, 6, 7, 8, and 11 seeds to get the final! Sometimes, luck is on your side and sometimes it's not. But regardless, need to beat whoever is in front of you.

[UrinalCake]

Ahh 2010 over WVU... Maybe the most fun I've ever had during a Duke game. I watched it with my best friends at ESPN Sports Zone in Vegas (no longer there) during my bachelor party. We had the whole place rocking.

I also lacked foresight in my younger days and got married in late March, which means that every year for our anniversary I have to juggling trying to schedule a romantic evening right in the middle of the tournament. Fortunately, Mrs. UrinalCake is also a huge fan so our celebrations usually involve Duke basketball :)

[DukeWarhead]

Glad Kansas got pummeled. No love for them.

[heyman25]

Kansas got their arses kicked. Raining 3's. Villanova pitched a perfect game.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Kansas got their arses kicked. Raining 3's. Villanova pitched a perfect game.

Nova was ripe for the picking against Texas Tech...but TT wasn't up to the prime time task. That was the game to beat Nova. That was their bad game. Today was preordained.

[Wander]

Strongly disagree with the notion that Duke would be a "step up in every way" for Wright. As hard as it is to accept, they are a better program than us right now.

Nah. You're reacting too much to the short term, I think. The top programs in college basketball these days are Duke, Kansas, and Kentucky.

[ncexnyc]

Thankfully You Tube exists so I was able to drop this lame blowout and watch RJ win a championship.

[heyman25]

Good good.

Kansas needs to be obliterated.
Glad they got a major beatdown.
It was cool Grant Hill mentioned the phony blocking charge that fouled Wendell Carter Jr. out of the Elite 8 game.Kansas continued to get those calls in their favor today and it did not matter.

[DukeWarhead]

The top programs in college basketball these days are Duke, Kansas, and Kentucky.

As much as it nauseates me to say it, I’d put the Cheats ahead of KU and Kentucky right now because if the two (albeit tainted titles in ten years and the two final fours in 16 and 17.) Bill Self can win conference championships all day long, but he’s stuck on 2008.

[richardjackson199]

I also lacked foresight in my younger days and got married in late March, which means that every year for our anniversary I have to juggling trying to schedule a romantic evening right in the middle of the tournament. Fortunately, Mrs. UrinalCake is also a huge fan so our celebrations usually involve Duke basketball :)

The fact that she took your name of Mrs. Urinalcake shows the truest love I've ever seen. ;)

[Reilly]

... they were beaten by St. Johns, Butler, Creighton, and Providence. They could lose to Michigan ...

Apparently they only lose to private school teams.

[Steven43]

This Nova team should win it all. But they are beatable, and they were beaten by St. Johns, Butler, Creighton, and Providence. They could lose to Michigan, especially if Michigan gets hot. But Nova should win.
I agree with you. The idea of Michigan beating Villanova is cute, but, umm.......no. Villanova will destroy Michigan. It will not be close.

[Furniture]

The fact that she took your name of Mrs. Urinalcake shows the truest love I've ever seen. ;)

Mrs. Furniture says hello....

[dudog84]

I also lacked foresight in my younger days and got married in late March, which means that every year for our anniversary I have to juggling trying to schedule a romantic evening right in the middle of the tournament. Fortunately, Mrs. UrinalCake is also a huge fan so our celebrations usually involve Duke basketball :)

Um, is she comfortable with that designation?

I really, really, really hate to say this, but Villanova is who we should be right now.

[brevity]

I think the answer to the trivia question would be Larry Bird's Indiana State Sycamores, in the iconic Bird v Magic Final.

Correct. Both Loyola 2018 and Indiana State 1979 had their seasons ended by a Big Ten team from the state of Michigan.


Kansas looks defeated already to me but...what I really wanna know is who stole the horn out of my Volkswagen and put it in the Alamodome?

Unfortunately for me, and anyone else driving and listening to the games on Westwood One, there is zero expectation that a car horn sound would be coming from the radio, and is far more likely a warning of imminent death.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Okay, so they would be ‘elite’. So what? They would still be well below Duke in every possible measure. Not all ‘elite’ schools are equal. In my mind, Duke is absolutely at the pinnacle of college basketball, the crown jewel. Villanova cannot compare. Just like UConn does not even come close to comparing to Duke even though they have won four national championships since 1999. It’s like comparing a fully-loaded Chrysler 300 (Villanova) to an S-class Mercedes (Duke). No comparison. If Duke offers he will come.

Exactly.

Most here would probably agree. Most on other boards would not.

[dukelifer]

Okay, so they would be ‘elite’. So what? They would still be well below Duke in every possible measure. Not all ‘elite’ schools are equal. In my mind, Duke is absolutely at the pinnacle of college basketball, the crown jewel. Villanova cannot compare. Just like UConn does not even come close to comparing to Duke even though they have won four national championships since 1999. It’s like comparing a fully-loaded Chrysler 300 (Villanova) to an S-class Mercedes (Duke). No comparison. If Duke offers he will come.

Villanova can’t compare because it has yet to make that jump but if Wright continues to win with this bunch - it’s profile can turn quickly. Duke is elite because of K and his legacy. At one point UCLA was college basketball - now few would put them in the list of elite programs.

[DukeWarhead]

Whew. I have the hierarchy of teams I root against in the NCAAT, especially once Duke loses. UNC, Kentucky, and Kansas...in that order. UCOnn used to be in there, but they suck now. Once they are all out, I can relax and try to enjoy the championship. Needless to say, the past two years were no fun.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Whew. I have the hierarchy of teams I root against in the NCAAT, especially once Duke loses. UNC, Kentucky, and Kansas...in that order. UCOnn used to be in there, but they suck now. Once they are all out, I can relax and try to enjoy a finals without Duke in it. Needless to say, the past two years were no fun.

Michigan is on my list...and Villanova is getting there (Jay Wright and Nova considered by many as 'the new Duke' program in the country.) But I feel ya on NC, UK and KU.

On the upside, in one of the 4 brackets I whipped together online on ESPN, I am in the 99th percentile and I have Nova beating Michigan in the title game.

[Troublemaker]

How about Jay Wright to replace Coach K? I’ve been thinking it off and on since they absolutely obliterated us in the tournament in 2009. Let’s say K coaches two more years and then calls it a day. Yes, Wright would be 59 at that time, but would likely still have 10 or even 15 years left. I don’t think there’s a better college coach out there right now. So why not? Sure, Villanova has a good program, but they’re not Duke. Taking the job at Duke would be a step up for Wright in every way, including pay. We’ll see.


Unless Nova cant pay him. He makes 2.5M now. Duke could easily double that. Now 2.5M is a lot and he has something going at Nova. Duke will likely have him on the list.


Jay Wright isn't leaving Nova

Jay Wright is not leaving Nova for Duke. (So agree with tbyers). He could leave for the NBA but not another college.

Guys, when suggesting a head coach for Duke, please do basic research on him. Was the guy born 40 minutes from the Villanova campus? Is his wife an alumna? Was the couple given an award for upholding Augustinian values? Was Villanova his dream job? (https://www.google.com/search?q=jay+wright+villanova+dream+job)

As an aside, Steven43, I would recommend just assuming the next Duke coach will be an underwhelming former Duke assistant. If you lower expectations, then you can only be happy or indifferent at worst when the announcement comes. Otherwise, I have a feeling that hire is going to kill you :-)


Yeah, this is why I didn't linger too much over Duke's loss last weekend. Nova would have done the same thing to our team. Too much to ask a young team, no matter how talented, to guard a team with that many mobile shooters and a leader like Brunson.

We might have put up a better showing than Kansas, but don't think it would have been that much better.

I got over the loss quickly, too, but I take little comfort in thinking Nova was the better team and not just because "anything can happen in a one game scenario." Getting to the Final Four is its own reward. The sport is set up so that there are 4 winners each season (and from that group, one uberwinner), and the gap between E8 and FF is the biggest in the sport, imo. I mean, Loyola and Kansas and the loser Monday night will ultimately be very happy with their seasons.

Duke has only been to 1 FF in the past 8 seasons and only 2 FF in the past 14 seasons. I'd like to see us have more FF seasons even if they don't end up in national titles. (I'm spoiled, yes, I know.)

[Troublemaker]

I agree with you. The idea of Michigan beating Villanova is cute, but, umm...no. Villanova will destroy Michigan. It will not be close.

You should take your college basketball knowledge and compete in the DBR Wager Contest for the tournament: https://contests.covers.com/OfficePools/OverallLeaderboard/2957c4c7-8b50-49fc-87e5-a8a100c55ac5

I know there's only 1 game left but if you get that game right, you'll finish in the the top 5.

[Saratoga2]

Villanova put Kansas away rather easily, something Duke was unable to do. They did it by hitting 18 3 pointers while we hit 4. Villanova forced Kansas to play out as they had 7 guys who hit a 3 and it appeared they all had the green light when open. When Kansas opened, Villanova found a man cutting to the basket. They had the guard play to overcome any press. Duke could not have withstood the barrage of 3s they hit against Kansas. They are as close to being a dominant team as any in the country this year. Michigan is very good defensively but looks like the underdog going into Monday night.

Would love to see Duke develop the kind of guard play needed to be dominant, but it is hard with one and done players. Congrats to Villanova for destroying Kansas.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Villanova put Kansas away rather easily, something Duke was unable to do. They did it by hitting 18 3 pointers while we hit 4. Villanova forced Kansas to play out as they had 7 guys who hit a 3 and it appeared they all had the green light when open. When Kansas opened, Villanova found a man cutting to the basket. They had the guard play to overcome any press. Duke could not have withstood the barrage of 3s they hit against Kansas. They are as close to being a dominant team as any in the country this year. Michigan is very good defensively but looks like the underdog going into Monday night.

Would love to see Duke develop the kind of guard play needed to be dominant, but it is hard with one and done players. Congrats to Villanova for destroying Kansas.

Villanova was the one team I thought could beat Duke, even if Duke played well.....with an A game performance like Nova had yesterday. Kansas could not have been competitive with Duke had Duke played well or shot well.....

So, will Villanova be unstoppable again Monday, or will they regress to the mean a little in their 3s and give Michigan a shot? I know that the average 3 point shooting for Nova is great, but they can't count on hitting 18 again. Then again, they don't have to win by 20 either. If they shoot/play like they did at Creighton late season, Michigan wins IMO.

[lotusland]

Jay Wright is not leaving Nova for Duke. (So agree with tbyers). He could leave for the NBA but not another college.

Guys, when suggesting a head coach for Duke, please do basic research on him. Was the guy born 40 minutes from the Villanova campus? Is his wife an alumna? Was the couple given an award for upholding Augustinian values? Was Villanova his dream job? (https://www.google.com/search?q=jay+wright+villanova+dream+job)

As an aside, Steven43, I would recommend just assuming the next Duke coach will be an underwhelming former Duke assistant. If you lower expectations, then you can only be happy or indifferent at worst when the announcement comes. Otherwise, I have a feeling that hire is going to kill you :-)



I got over the loss quickly, too, but I take little comfort in thinking Nova was the better team and not just because "anything can happen in a one game scenario." Getting to the Final Four is its own reward. The sport is set up so that there are 4 winners each season (and from that group, one uberwinner), and the gap between E8 and FF is the biggest in the sport, imo. I mean, Loyola and Kansas and the loser Monday night will ultimately be very happy with their seasons.

Duke has only been to 1 FF in the past 8 seasons and only 2 FF in the past 14 seasons. I'd like to see us have more FF seasons even if they don't end up in national titles. (I'm spoiled, yes, I know.)

A bit naive I think. See Mack, Chris and money, cash.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

A bit naive I think. See Mack, Chris and money, cash.

Actually, Mack's wife is from Louisville and her parents still live there. That was apparently a big part of why he took the job. Recruiting the coach's wife is like recruiting the recruit's mom - she is often the key decision maker (yes, I know there are plenty of exceptions).

[lotusland]

Actually, Mack's wife is from Louisville and her parents still live there. That was apparently a big part of why he took the job. Recruiting the coach's wife is like recruiting the recruit's mom - she is often the key decision maker (yes, I know there are plenty of exceptions).

But Mack was at his dream job. My point stands that saying that no college job could pry Wright away from Nova is naive. I’d love to have Wright at Duke but, in terms of basketball success, legacy, happiness, etc. it might not be the Wright move. There’s something to be said for guys like Jay Wright and Tony Bennett staying put to build their own program.

[DukeWarhead]

Jay Wright is not leaving Nova for Duke.

I knew this the second I saw his complete non-reaction to the buzzer beating 3 pointer that won him his first (and for the moment -only), long awaited championship. I mean, who has that much restraint at that moment? I still don’t believe it when I watch it. Something about that moment of ultimate cool just seemed to say that he was just getting started and wouldn’t be leaving Villanova any time soon, if ever.

[rsvman]

I knew this the second I saw his complete non-reaction to the buzzer beating 3 pointer that won him his first (and for the moment -only), long awaited championship. I mean, who has that much restraint at that moment? I still don’t believe it when I watch it. Something about that moment of ultimate cool just seemed to say that he was just getting started and wouldn’t be leaving Villanova any time soon, if ever.

Did you also happen to notice the complete lack of reaction of Butler's head coach when the potential national championship game-winning shot bounced off? Some people are just wired that way, I think.

[Ian]

But Mack was at his dream job. My point stands that saying that no college job could pry Wright away from Nova is naive. I’d love to have Wright at Duke but, in terms of basketball success, legacy, happiness, etc. it might not be the Wright move. There’s something to be said for guys like Jay Wright and Tony Bennett staying put to build their own program.

If Nova wins this year, it will be considered one of the top 5 programs in all of basketball. Xavier is no where near that class.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Michigan is on my list...and Villanova is getting there (Jay Wright and Nova considered by many as 'the new Duke' program in the country.) But I feel ya on NC, UK and KU.

On the upside, in one of the 4 brackets I whipped together online on ESPN, I am in the 99th percentile and I have Nova beating Michigan in the title game.

Congrats on your bracket success.

I see what you wrote about Villanova but any school that beats the unc-heaters with a last second 3 in the NC game is going to have a hard time getting on my list. Weber State is another favorite of mine for obviously a different but similar reason.


unc and KY top my list.

SoCal

[lotusland]

If Nova wins this year, it will be considered one of the top 5 programs in all of basketball. Xavier is no where near that class.

Yeah I never said that he would leave or should leave Nova for Duke or anywhere else. I said it is naive to think he would not leave for anywhere under any circumstances. Frankly you should never allow your employer to be under the impression that you would never leave under any circumstances.

[Wander]

As much as it nauseates me to say it, I’d put the Cheats ahead of KU and Kentucky right now because if the two (albeit tainted titles in ten years and the two final fours in 16 and 17.) Bill Self can win conference championships all day long, but he’s stuck on 2008.

I think UNC and Villanova are not too far behind Duke, Kentucky, and Kansas. Could be a time-burning offseason topic.

[richardjackson199]

You should take your college basketball knowledge and compete in the DBR Wager Contest for the tournament: https://contests.covers.com/OfficePools/OverallLeaderboard/2957c4c7-8b50-49fc-87e5-a8a100c55ac5

I know there's only 1 game left but if you get that game right, you'll finish in the the top 5.

Yep. Or Scottdude may take the 6.5 points and bet a pie with him. Not me. The bakery is slowing production down for a little while. :cool:

I do see that 69% of money is coming in on Villanova to cover the 6.5 point spread. Joe Q is confident.

I'm not betting, but if I did I'd take Michigan and the points. Should be interesting.

[richardjackson199]

I got over the loss quickly, too, but I take little comfort in thinking Nova was the better team and not just because "anything can happen in a one game scenario." Getting to the Final Four is its own reward. The sport is set up so that there are 4 winners each season (and from that group, one uberwinner), and the gap between E8 and FF is the biggest in the sport, imo. I mean, Loyola and Kansas and the loser Monday night will ultimately be very happy with their seasons.

Duke has only been to 1 FF in the past 8 seasons and only 2 FF in the past 14 seasons. I'd like to see us have more FF seasons even if they don't end up in national titles. (I'm spoiled, yes, I know.)

I could not agree more with the bolded. Nobody knows what happens if Duke plays Nova. Sure one can say we'd be in trouble if they hit 18 threes, or their 3's would be too much for our zone, or their guards would kill our zone press, or whatever. Duke knows Nova was considered the best team this year, and may have shown up with something to prove too.

But we'll never know. Just like if Duke had barely failed to make the Final 4 in 91, some folks would probably say, "we're better off. UNLV matches up better and they crushed this same team by 30 last year. I'm glad we avoided going out like that again."

I'll take the Final 4 and take my chances. I sure miss going to all those Final 4's like K was doing in those days.

My expectations for next year certainly will be lower. I hope we beat the Cheats more times than not, and if we can get back to Final 4 I'll be ecstatic. But it's hard to do. You never know as UVA proved, but playing well in conference, winning games we should win, and earning a 1 seed should help our chances.

[brevity]

I have another trivia question to burn.

In the 64-or-more-team era, only 2 schools have defeated both Duke and UNC in the same NCAA Tournament. Can you name them?

Hint, if you need it: As you might expect, Duke and UNC were in separate regions on both occasions. One team beat UNC in the Sweet 16 and Duke in the national championship game. The other beat Duke in the Sweet 16 and UNC in the national semifinal.

[Philsfan]

Unfortunately for me, and anyone else driving and listening to the games on Westwood One, there is zero expectation that a car horn sound would be coming from the radio, and is far more likely a warning of imminent death.[/QUOTE]

Oh my word, it was terrible. I kept hitting the brakes and turning my head all around the hour or so I was in the car during the first game!

[Troublemaker]

A bit naive I think. See Mack, Chris and money, cash.

Naive? I'm one of the most cynical people I know.

Look, it seems fairly easy to arrange a (long-term) bet around this one. Obviously, what you would consider to be blueblood programs have contacted and will be contacting him, right? It would be naive to think otherwise, especially since he is as hot as any coach right now. Jay Wright WILL be put to the test in the coming years -- everyone can agree on this.

So, if 5 years go by, and he's still the Villanova coach, you owe me a pie. If, on the other hand, he leaves for Kentucky or UCLA or whatever, then I'll send you 10 pies. That's me giving you odds. And if Wright goes to the NBA, it's a push. Are we agreed?

Look, if you're not willing to take 10 to 1 odds, then you really don't have the courage of conviction that you understand human beings better than I do. In your world, money talks, right? Then money should pry Jay Wright away from Villanova. At 10 to 1 odds, that's a steal for you.

So, are you a man or a mouse, lotusland? It's just one pie.

[Troublemaker]

I have another trivia question to burn.

In the 64-or-more-team era, only 2 schools have defeated both Duke and UNC in the same NCAA Tournament. Can you name them?

Hint, if you need it: As you might expect, Duke and UNC were in separate regions on both occasions. One team beat UNC in the Sweet 16 and Duke in the national championship game. The other beat Duke in the Sweet 16 and UNC in the national semifinal.

Pretty easy one, brev. The two teams come to mind immediately, but I'll only supply one so others can play along for the other one.

Florida in 2000.

[richardjackson199]

I mean, being the 1 in the Midwest with Kansas as our 2 wouldn't have been much different. I agree it's usually an advantage but not like Nova has had an easy route. Heck, Michigan as a 3 seed has faced a 14, 6, 7, 8, and 11 seeds to get the final! Sometimes, luck is on your side and sometimes it's not. But regardless, need to beat whoever is in front of you.

The point I wanted to make is Duke as 1 and Kansas as 2 in Midwest would be virtually impossible. No way a team who proves they are good enough by winning this year's Big 12 conference by 2 games and then cruises through Big 12 Tourney championship (without their stud Center who returns) is getting a 2 seed. They proved they are deserving of a 1.

If Duke had earned a 1 seed, we would have taken Xavier's spot, not Kansas. Duke was Vegas favorite in 7 of our 8 losses. If we win even 1 more of those (6) games before the tourney we should have won, we could have had a much more favorable path. There still would have been no guarantee. But maybe we're playing Loyola yesterday in the Final 4.

As any good poker player knows, sometimes luck is on your side and sometimes it's not. But you still want to be the guy shoving all in on the flop with your made straight against the guy who semi-bluff raised you. When you get called by the guy with the flush draw, that's great news. And when he hits it, tip your hat - this is a guy you want to play more poker with.

The best probability odds you can give yourself to win a National Championship is by trying not to play more higher seeded teams. The only control you have over that is by earning a 1 seed if you're good enough. That way, if you even play another 1 seed that means you've already made the Final Four. If you even play a 2 OR 3 seed, it won't happen before the Elite 8, giving those teams more games to possibly get knocked off.

Villanova didn't have an easy path, but if they win it all they'll play exactly one 1 seed, and that will likely have been the game they gave their best performance. In Nova's case, they'll have played zero 2 seeds and two 3's. And they weren't even much beneficiary of all the crazy upsets. That's how you want to do it. Earning a draw to beat something like Michigan State, Kansas, Nova, and then Michigan is the worst possible odds our team could have made for themselves. They were drawing for a gutshot because they left themselves no other choice. Nobody in a 64 team tourney starts with good odds to win it all. But there is a reason most of K's Natties have been as a 1 seed. Sure those were some of his best teams. But they also took care of enough business to make some of their own luck.

What happens after brackets are drawn is not unlike what cards the dealer fills the board with. But you want the strong made hand, not the draw in most cases. So don't change your play because the dealer just completed 2 fish's gutshots. Tony Bennett is still gunning for #1 overall seed again next year, and he's hoping this time his most athletic player doesn't break his arm right before the tourney. And so is Duke.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I take little comfort in thinking Nova was the better team and not just because "anything can happen in a one game scenario." Getting to the Final Four is its own reward. The sport is set up so that there are 4 winners each season (and from that group, one uberwinner), and the gap between E8 and FF is the biggest in the sport, imo.

Duke has only been to 1 FF in the past 8 seasons and only 2 FF in the past 14 seasons. I'd like to see us have more FF seasons even if they don't end up in national titles. (I'm spoiled, yes, I know.)

AMEN bro and preach it! Duke became Duke by going to Final Fours....5 in a row, 7 in 9 years. That's when Duke became the Duke of today. There was no national title until the 5th Final Four (and then another one in the 6th, and one shot away from one in the 7th FF in 9 years. Seven FF's in 9 years is still astonishing to think about, and this was all in the 64 team field era.

[richardjackson199]

The point I wanted to make is Duke as 1 and Kansas as 2 in Midwest would be virtually impossible. No way a team who proves they are good enough by winning this year's Big 12 conference by 2 games and then cruises through Big 12 Tourney championship (without their stud Center who returns) is getting a 2 seed. They proved they are deserving of a 1.

If Duke had earned a 1 seed, we would have taken Xavier's spot, not Kansas. Duke was Vegas favorite in 7 of our 8 losses. If we win even 1 more of those (6) games before the tourney we should have won, we could have had a much more favorable path. There still would have been no guarantee. But maybe we're playing Loyola yesterday in the Final 4.

As any good poker player knows, sometimes luck is on your side and sometimes it's not. But you still want to be the guy shoving all in on the flop with your made straight against the guy who semi-bluff raised you. When you get called by the guy with the flush draw, that's great news. And when he hits it, tip your hat - this is a guy you want to play more poker with.

The best probability odds you can give yourself to win a National Championship is by trying not to play more higher seeded teams. The only control you have over that is by earning a 1 seed if you're good enough. That way, if you even play another 1 seed that means you've already made the Final Four. If you even play a 2 OR 3 seed, it won't happen before the Elite 8, giving those teams more games to possibly get knocked off.

Villanova didn't have an easy path, but if they win it all they'll play exactly one 1 seed, and that will likely have been the game they gave their best performance. In Nova's case, they'll have played zero 2 seeds and two 3's. And they weren't even much beneficiary of all the crazy upsets. That's how you want to do it. Earning a draw to beat something like Michigan State, Kansas, Nova, and then Michigan is the worst possible odds our team could have made for themselves. They were drawing for a gutshot because they left themselves no other choice. Nobody in a 64 team tourney starts with good odds to win it all. But there is a reason most of K's Natties have been as a 1 seed. Sure those were some of his best teams. But they also took care of enough business to make some of their own luck.

What happens after brackets are drawn is not unlike what cards the dealer fills the board with. But you want the strong made hand, not the draw in most cases. So don't change your play because the dealer just completed 2 fish's gutshots. Tony Bennett is still gunning for #1 overall seed again next year, and he's hoping this time his most athletic player doesn't break his arm right before the tourney. And so is Duke.

Maybe a better poker analogy (even though they're all apples/oranges) is that if you had any say in the matter, you'd love your hole cards to be Aces to start the hand. That's like a #1 seed. Someone might point out, yeah, but there are 9 other players at your table, so your Aces won't be the favorite on the river in a big multiplayer pot. And that's true. But give me the Aces preflop, because you're going to have better odds to win than any other single player. That's the best you can do.

Your Aces will often get cracked, and they'll often lose some big pots when they do. They're only a high pair. But Aces win a lot more pots than they lose if played well. A standard preflop raise will chase out lots of hands who might outdraw you, and will give your hand value against anyone who wants to take you on. (Don't always play them that way, as deception is key in poker, but I'll take Aces any day over any other starting hand).

Or a different poker analogy is let's say Daniel Negreanu (one of best players in world) enters a big multi-table poker tourney. Even though he's friends with Antonio Esfandiari, Martin Jacobson, Phil Ivey, and Daniel Colman, he doesn't want to see those guys at his first table. He knows he's good enough to beat all of them on a good day. But they don't make many mistakes, and so he knows that his hand value is lower in any hand he's playing against them than against a lesser player. So he'd rather not deal with those guys until the final table, and he's hoping some of them get knocked off by then anyway. Making the Final Table is a huge honor, means finishing in the money anyway, and not playing against those guys until then gives him his best chance of wearing that bracelet.

I know everybody probably knows all this. It just sucks so bad to have the Preseason #1 team start 11-0 raising expectations and then finish with nothing to show. Bagley and Carter were the real deal and looked so dominant. Duval wasn't just the true PG this team needed, he was the #1 PG recruit in the country and could do things no other college PG could do. Trent was the #1 incoming SG, and he was clearly much better than advertised. After the Michigan State game, Grayson looked to me like a guy who was going to be that consummate senior leader type while getting his jersey retired and competing for a Wooden award. Bolden, Javin, AOC, Jack, Goldwire, JRob, and Vrank made for a really nice bench - all were improved and better than expected. And we were healthy, so no excuses.

And they gave it their all and represented Duke well. But damn, they underachieved a bit and it sucks to have no Final 4, no conference championships, no undefeated home season, and 2/3 losses to Cheats.

But maybe next year will be better! And I guess it's poker season! :cool:

[brevity]

Has it really been 10 years? Never forget. (https://www.si.com/more-sports/2008/04/11/roy-kansas)

8279


I have another trivia question to burn.

In the 64-or-more-team era, only 2 schools have defeated both Duke and UNC in the same NCAA Tournament. Can you name them?

Hint, if you need it: As you might expect, Duke and UNC were in separate regions on both occasions. One team beat UNC in the Sweet 16 and Duke in the national championship game. The other beat Duke in the Sweet 16 and UNC in the national semifinal.


Pretty easy one, brev. The two teams come to mind immediately, but I'll only supply one so others can play along for the other one.

Florida in 2000.

Anyone know the second team?

[tbyers11]

Has it really been 10 years? Never forget. (https://www.si.com/more-sports/2008/04/11/roy-kansas)

8279





Anyone know the second team?

Louisville 1986

[brevity]

Louisville 1986

Correct. Here’s another one.

Tonight is the national championship game. In the history of the men’s basketball NCAA Tournament, Duke has reached the national championship game 11 times, and has faced a different school each time. Name the 11 opponents.

[devildeac]

Correct. Here’s another one.

Tonight is the national championship game. In the history of the men’s basketball NCAA Tournament, Duke has reached the national championship game 11 times, and has faced a different school each time. Name the 11 opponents.

Without research:

1963-Loyola
1978-UK
1986-UL
1990-UNLV
1991-KU
1992-UMich
1994-UArk
1999-Ucons
2001-UAriz
2010-Butler
2015-UWisc

The only one I'm not sure of is 1963. (But, I will research now and promise not to edit if I'm wrong.)

[dudog84]

Pretty easy one, brev. The two teams come to mind immediately, but I'll only supply one so others can play along for the other one.

Florida in 2000.


Louisville 1986

When I saw the question, I thought "That is how you simultaneously love and hate a team/coach/program".

And then I saw Louisville 1986.

[Natty_B]

Without research:

1963-Loyola
1978-UK
1986-UL
1990-UNLV
1991-KU
1992-UMich
1994-UArk
1999-Ucons
2001-UAriz
2010-Butler
2015-UWisc

The only one I'm not sure of is 1963. (But, I will research now and promise not to edit if I'm wrong.)

Loyola won their title vs a Cincinnati team that was going for a three peat.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Without research:

1963-Loyola
1978-UK
1986-UL
1990-UNLV
1991-KU
1992-UMich
1994-UArk
1999-Ucons
2001-UAriz
2010-Butler
2015-UWisc

The only one I'm not sure of is 1963. (But, I will research now and promise not to edit if I'm wrong.)

Duke lost to Loyola in 1963 semifinal and lost to UCLA in 1964 Final (Wooden’s first championship).

[devildeac]

Loyola won their title vs a Cincinnati team that was going for a three peat.


Duke lost to Loyola in 1963 semifinal and lost to UCLA in 1964 Final (Wooden’s first championship).

Thanks. I did the research and learned that after my post (from memory). I had the correct foe just the wrong year and game. :o

[gofurman]

Loyola won their title vs a Cincinnati team that was going for a three peat.

1963-Loyola --------------------- 1964 v UCLA?
1978-UK
1986-UL
1990-UNLV
1991-KU
1992-UMich
1994-UArk
1999-Ucons
2001-UAriz
2010-Butler
2015-UWisc

[nmduke2001]

My buddy was in San Francisco this weekend. He was eating at a restaurant on Saturday night and in walks in former Jayhawk Josh Jackson (Phoenix was playing GS on Sunday). Interesting thing was that it was during the Kansas Final Four game. I just thought it was surprising that a kid wouldn't be interested in watching his school and several of his former teammates play in the Final Four. Perhaps some of those kids don't care about the school quite as much as we Alumni and fans do and I guess that's ok.

[wavedukefan70s]

If Villanova loses tonight it may be the biggest upset since we beat unlv.

[dukelifer]

If Villanova loses tonight it may be the biggest upset since we beat unlv.

I suspect they will lose and Duke's upset will still be bigger. I don't think Villanova will shoot as well as they did on Sat as Michigan's D is pretty good and Michigan will shoot better. I don't think Nova has an answer for Wagner- he is a very tough matchup. If anything - this will come down to the wire.

[wavedukefan70s]

I suspect they will lose and Duke's upset will still be bigger. I don't think Villanova will shoot as well as they did on Sat as Michigan's D is pretty good and Michigan will shoot better. I don't think Nova has an answer for Wagner- he is a very tough matchup. If anything - this will come down to the wire.

I hope not I got nova all the way.

[Wander]

If Villanova loses tonight it may be the biggest upset since we beat unlv.

Nah. Michigan hasn't lost a game in nearly 2 months. The upsets in the 2014 Final Four were bigger than Michigan winning would be.

[weezie]

Guess I will throw psychic weight behind mi. If only to irritate spartan fans.

Won't watch though. Need to watch finale of Counterpart and latest Silicon Valley.

[Wahoo2000]

My buddy was in San Francisco this weekend. He was eating at a restaurant on Saturday night and in walks in former Jayhawk Josh Jackson (Phoenix was playing GS on Sunday). Interesting thing was that it was during the Kansas Final Four game. I just thought it was surprising that a kid wouldn't be interested in watching his school and several of his former teammates play in the Final Four. Perhaps some of those kids don't care about the school quite as much as we Alumni and fans do and I guess that's ok.

I can't imagine that any 1-and-done kid is as tied to his school as a multi-year player, or graduate of the school. I'm sure some are more passionate than others (especially with the kids who see college as a "necessary evil" on their way to the NBA), but less time usually equals less attachment.

[brevity]

I knew this the second I saw his complete non-reaction to the buzzer beating 3 pointer that won him his first (and for the moment -only), long awaited championship. I mean, who has that much restraint at that moment? I still don’t believe it when I watch it. Something about that moment of ultimate cool just seemed to say that he was just getting started and wouldn’t be leaving Villanova any time soon, if ever.


Did you also happen to notice the complete lack of reaction of Butler's head coach when the potential national championship game-winning shot bounced off? Some people are just wired that way, I think.

And some people aren't. Has it really been 5 years? Never forget. (http://twitpic.com/ci1yls)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h28Zp9V0s_8

Or maybe forget. Rick Pitino doesn't have to worry about this anymore, because the NCAA recently ruled it didn't happen.

[DukieInKansas]

My buddy was in San Francisco this weekend. He was eating at a restaurant on Saturday night and in walks in former Jayhawk Josh Jackson (Phoenix was playing GS on Sunday). Interesting thing was that it was during the Kansas Final Four game. I just thought it was surprising that a kid wouldn't be interested in watching his school and several of his former teammates play in the Final Four. Perhaps some of those kids don't care about the school quite as much as we Alumni and fans do and I guess that's ok.

Was it after the first 5 minutes had been played? If so, the outcome was pretty much determined so he might not have seen any reason to watch the rest of the blood bath.

[devildeac]

Villanova win=devildeac wins office bracket pool (aka more beer :o)
M*chigan win=devildeac wins pat on the back as first loser

Shoulda entered the DBR Challenge :(.

Go Wildcats!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I'm getting that vibe again...that vibe that the sports media is so one sided in their predictions, that the underdog team will play the "been disrespected" card and pull the upset. Watch out for Michigan.

This smacks of the Texas Southern Cal natty in football years ago.....everyone picked SC....Texas won. One of my better predictions.

[Spanarkel]

I'm getting that vibe again...that vibe that the sports media is so one sided in their predictions, that the underdog team will play the "been disrespected" card and pull the upset. Watch out for Michigan.

This smacks of the Texas Southern Cal natty in football years ago....everyone picked SC...Texas won. One of my better predictions.

You were recently pretty sure that Miss State was going to beat ND in WBB. My question is how can you or anyone be that sure of any outcomes involving 18-22 year olds?

[Steven43]

I'm getting that vibe again...that vibe that the sports media is so one sided in their predictions, that the underdog team will play the "been disrespected" card and pull the upset. Watch out for Michigan.

This smacks of the Texas Southern Cal natty in football years ago....everyone picked SC...Texas won. One of my better predictions.

I had the Texas Longhorns all the way in that game. I could be considered biased, though, as Texas is my alma mater.

But tonight? Who exactly has Michigan beaten? Villanova in a relative blowout (8 points or more).

[robed deity]

Just a hunch, but I'm taking Michigan straight up tonight.

They'll really guard, Nova won't shoot as well, and hey, the front page has to be right some time.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

You were recently pretty sure that Miss State was going to beat ND in WBB. My question is how can you or anyone be that sure of any outcomes involving 18-22 year olds?

I was not far off - I was dad-gummed near right, even as I was picking the underdog. My theory about ND being flat and having a hard time getting going was absolutely correct...just as Miss State was last year against SC after beating UCONN in dramatic fashion.

It's just that ND did manage a rally, which I am happy about.

As for your question, I believe I leave a bit of circumspection in every prediction...my hunch, my vibe, etc. I'm not really sure what decorum you think is proper for predictions. I would think the assumption that nothing is a sure thing would be, well, assumed.

I'll say I did call Nova routing Kansas big time...had Michigan beating Loyola, and my ESPN bracket is at 99.8 percentile with Nova beating Michigan 78-73. Believe it or not, my predictions are above the mean by a good bit.

Also, no prediction, but not surprised if Michigan wins tonight because Nova regresses to the mean on 3 point shooting.

[Tripping William]

Irony (n): The Michigan Wolverines (of Fab 5 fame) wearing, “Do More, Say Less” warm-up shirts.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Irony (n): The Michigan Wolverines (of Fab 5 fame) wearing, “Do More, Say Less” warm-up shirts.

That brings back great memories of Duke in 1992 after beating the Fab Five wearing the incredible "you can talk the game but can you play the game? Duke - we can play" shirts - one of my favorite shirts ever.

[Steven43]

Also, no prediction, but not surprised if Michigan wins tonight because Nova regresses to the mean on 3 point shooting.
Gotta tell you, Michigan is showing some crazy athleticism that I didn’t fully realize they had. Either that or they are hopped up on some substance that is giving them incredible energy. Doubt it can last much longer, but dang impressive so far.

[kmspeaks]

I've watched about 35 seconds of Villanova basketball before tonight so I'm curious, does Jalen Brunson always get away with 2 offensive fouls per possession? No wonder he was player of the year.

[Steven43]

I've watched about 35 seconds of Villanova basketball before tonight so I'm curious, does Jalen Brunson always get away with 2 offensive fouls per possession? No wonder he was player of the year.

Yep, I noticed the same thing, I think the man guarding Brunson is a better athlete and is causing him to resort to gimmickry to create space. It’s worth keeping an eye on going forward.

[indy1duke]

I just checked out the Villanova roster. Six of their players have redshirted. That seems like an extraordinary number of players to redshirt.

[Bluedog]

One thing I find humorous when reading articles like "Michigan was unranked in January and is now playing for the national title" is the fact that the NCAA committee would likely be relatively unimpressed with the quality of their wins during this run. They haven't beaten a top 20 team! Hahaha. That wouldn't get them a top 2 seed that's for sure. Ask Michigan State.

Having said that, Michigan's D is awesome and they're playing with more athleticism than I thought. If they hit perimeter shots and Nova starts missing they have a decent chance.

[Duke76]

I just checked out the Villanova roster. Six of their players have redshirted. That seems like an extraordinary number of players to redshirt.

way to miss the goaltending on wildcats, key point at the end of half

[scottdude8]

way to miss the goaltending on wildcats, key point at the end of half

Thank you! Appalling they didn’t even mention it.

We’ve been a comeback team all year though. Go Blue!

[devildeac]

That brings back great memories of Duke in 1992 after beating the Fab Five wearing the incredible "you can talk the game but can you play the game? Duke - we can play" shirts - one of my favorite shirts ever.

Still have that shirt. It's pretty tattered, thin and torn but still greatly appreciated.

[jipops]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but there is only one McDonald’s All American on the floor tonight - Brunson.

[dukelifer]

Still have that shirt. It's pretty tattered, thin and torn but still greatly appreciated.
Divincenzo has some game. Kid is fearless.

[dukelifer]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but there is only one McDonald’s All American on the floor tonight - Brunson.

true- but Wagner probably would have been. Duke's best player technically wasn't a McDonald's All American.

[richardjackson199]

this game already feels over

[wavedukefan70s]

way to miss the goaltending on wildcats, key point at the end of half

They missed one on Michigan earlier.

[Steven43]

I've watched about 35 seconds of Villanova basketball before tonight so I'm curious, does Jalen Brunson always get away with 2 offensive fouls per possession? No wonder he was player of the year.
I’ve been watching Brunson very closely since you mentioned it and he has continued to commit offensive foul after offensive foul and they just don’t get called. It’s crazy.

[wavedukefan70s]

To be honest there's a bunch that needs to be called on both sides.

[6th Man]

If Duke played with the intensity of either one of these teams they might have had a chance. I realize it’s the title game, but every game in the NCAA could be your last. Crazy to me the difference in defending the 3 and going after rebounds. That left corner of the Kansas game will haunt and baffle me. It became their hot spot and we still gave away multiple open looks. I respect the way both of these teams work. Not a big Nova fan, but man they get after it.

[Furniture]

They missed one on Michigan earlier.

Yup.

[dukelifer]

If Duke played with the intensity of either one of these teams they might have had a chance. I realize it’s the title game, but every game in the NCAA could be your last. Crazy to me the difference in defending the 3 and going after rebounds. That left corner of the Kansas game will haunt and baffle me. It became their hot spot and we still gave away multiple open looks. I respect the way both of these teams work. Not a big Nova fan, but man they get after it.

Duke did not play with intensity? The Duke-Kansas game was one of the best of the tourney. Duke made one mistake and it cost them.

[wavedukefan70s]

Yup.

The kicker is my wife whom doesn't watch ball at all.has pointed out several players that are pulling grabbing on both teams.that is probably the most neutral opinion .I can get lol.

[mr shadow 008]

I’ve been watching Brunson very closely since you mentioned it and he has continued to commit offensive foul after offensive foul and they just don’t get called. It’s crazy.

It happened all of the 2nd half against WVU as well. They could almost get called for an offensive foul every time down the floor. Divincenzo does it quite a bit as well.

[Bluedog]

Well, Brunson with four fouls now with 11 minutes to go... Not good for Nova.

[wavedukefan70s]

I'd go to 8 minutes .see what score is.put him in go for broke.

[wavedukefan70s]

Wow.MvP

[Bluedog]

This Nova offense is decent, ya think?

[jipops]

true- but Wagner probably would have been. Duke's best player technically wasn't a McDonald's All American.

Oh the actual level of talent on the floor is right up there with anybody.

[indy1duke]

Villanova roster rankings from RSCI:
Spellman 17 2016
Brunson 19 2015
Bridges 96 2014
Booth 84 2014
Paschal could not locate in 2014
DiVincenzo could not locate

Recruiting rankings work best ranking incoming freshmen. I am not sure they are predictive as the years roll on.

Anyone else notice that Brunson charges every single time he has the ball in his hands?

[jipops]

Well, Brunson with four fouls now with 11 minutes to go... Not good for Nova.

I don’t think they need him tonight.

[dukelifer]

This Nova offense is decent, ya think?

Well Donte is having one of those special games.

[richardjackson199]

Nova came out ice cold. Michigan came out with nice gameplan. But 1 player completely changed and decided the game. And another legend is born.

[kako]

I've been bouncing between the various broadcasts. The Nova-cast play-by-play guy is OK, but the rest of them seem like hacks to me. With the game pretty much in Nova's hands, I started wondering - who will do the Duke Teamcast *when* they make the FF? Realistic choices only - somebody might say JWill, Bilas or the like, but ABC/ESPN would never loan to CBS.

For color, the logical choice would be Spanarkel since he's already on contract with CBS. They would easily provide him. Another choice would be Gminski as long as his contract with the ACC Network says it's OK. Either one would make Randy Foye on the Nova cast look mundane... oh wait, he already does.

For play-by-play, not sure. Not sure of someone with a direct Duke connection. But Tim Brando does ACC Network, and I'd be fine with him.

For color, I wouldn't want schtick like having Ron Riggle doing the KU teamcast. I hope they wouldn't get Duke alum Ken Jeong (he's on promos for some show coming up after the FF). I like the guy, but I want a real sideline reporter. Former Duke WBB hoops star Abby Waner used to do ESPNU, but I haven't seen her in a while. Anybody else?

[dukelifer]

Well Donte is having one of those special games.

Needs to hit his throws down the stretch.

[Bluedog]

I've been bouncing between the various broadcasts. The Nova-cast play-by-play guy is OK, but the rest of them seem like hacks to me. With the game pretty much in Nova's hands, I started wondering - who will do the Duke Teamcast *when* they make the FF? Realistic choices only - somebody might say JWill, Bilas or the like, but ABC/ESPN would never loan to CBS.

For color, the logical choice would be Spanarkel since he's already on contract with CBS. They would easily provide him. Another choice would be Gminski as long as his contract with the ACC Network says it's OK. Either one would make Randy Foye on the Nova cast look mundane... oh wait, he already does.

For play-by-play, not sure. Not sure of someone with a direct Duke connection. But Tim Brando does ACC Network, and I'd be fine with him.

For color, I wouldn't want schtick like having Ron Riggle doing the KU teamcast. I hope they wouldn't get Duke alum Ken Jeong (he's on promos for some show coming up after the FF). I like the guy, but I want a real sideline reporter. Former Duke WBB hoops star Abby Waner used to do ESPNU, but I haven't seen her in a while. Anybody else?

Well, they did this in 2015 so you don't have to guess. 😀 Alaa Abdelnaby was the color guy and he talked about how it was fun to finally be allowed to actively cheer for Duke. Can't recall the play by play...

Edit: play by play was Tom Werme.

[Kjeffrey]

Villanova roster rankings from RSCI:
Spellman 17 2016
Brunson 19 2015
Bridges 96 2014
Booth 84 2014
Paschal could not locate in 2014
DiVincenzo could not locate

Recruiting rankings work best ranking incoming freshmen. I am not sure they are predictive as the years roll on.

Anyone else notice that Brunson charges every single time he has the ball in his hands?

Yup. He and Ty Jerome get away with offensive fouls on a regular basis.

[wavedukefan70s]

Yup. He and Ty Jerome get away with offensive fouls on a regular basis.

Heck why not.jordan made a heck career of pushing off.😁🐶

[Steven43]

Anyone else notice that Brunson charges every single time he has the ball in his hands?
Yes, we’ve been noticing it all game long. He is the James Harden of college ball.

[brevity]

I've been bouncing between the various broadcasts. The Nova-cast play-by-play guy is OK, but the rest of them seem like hacks to me. With the game pretty much in Nova's hands, I started wondering - who will do the Duke Teamcast *when* they make the FF? Realistic choices only - somebody might say JWill, Bilas or the like, but ABC/ESPN would never loan to CBS.


Well, they did this in 2015 so you don't have to guess. 😀 Alaa Abdelnaby was the color guy and he talked about how it was fun to finally be allowed to actively cheer for Duke. Can't recall the play by play...

Edit: play by play was Tom Werme.

Beat me to it. Here's a link. (http://awfulannouncing.com/2015/years-team-stream-final-four-announcers-revealed.html) Chris Spatola was the sideline reporter.

[wavedukefan70s]

I love it when Michigan loses.

[richardjackson199]

Oddsmakers don't usually blow it, but they blew this one. Joe Q was right.

[dukelifer]

Oddsmakers don't usually blow it, but they blew this one. Joe Q was right.
I am very surprised. I expected this to be a close game as well.

[kako]

Beat me to it. Here's a link. (http://awfulannouncing.com/2015/years-team-stream-final-four-announcers-revealed.html) Chris Spatola was the sideline reporter.

Thanks, guys. Forgot about that. No offense to Alaa, but I'd rather listen to Spanarkel or Gman.

Spatola writes for The Athletic now.

[Trey21]

didn't watch until now but the 8.5 spread was definitely going to be covered. there was no way this game wasn't gonna be a double digit win for Nova. UM caught "fire" but they really haven't played a very good team let alone a great one this March. Jay Wright looking good. Maybe continue to be the new "it" college coach and establish Nova as a legit blue blood powerhouse, or maybe the NBA calls and we can see how his system works at the next level. I think he's found a nice niche at the college level. I still don't really think this Nova team is all time good though. Probably would be able to take the 2016 champs though. What a snooze of a game...

[InSpades]

Would've liked to see Duke get a shot at this Nova team... we might not have prevailed but we would have played against the best team in the country.

No one really gave them a run for their money except maybe Texas Tech? These 2 games were not competitive at all really...

Hell of a game by DiVincenzo. Might've been a different game if he didn't go off but... he did and then some.

Hopefully a bunch of those Nova kids go pro cause I don't want to face them if they stick around. Really well coached team.

[dukelifer]

Nova was deserving. I thought Michigan would give them a game but I picked Nova in my bracket and won the family pool- coming from behind.

[Ian]

Duke did not play with intensity? The Duke-Kansas game was one of the best of the tourney. Duke made one mistake and it cost them.

We got dominated on teh board by a bad rebounding team.

[heyman25]

Well Donte is having one of those special games.
Duke needs to recruit diamonds in the rough. I absolutely love our incoming class, but Villanova is really rolling as a program.

[dukelifer]

Duke needs to recruit diamonds in the rough. I absolutely love our incoming class, but Villanova is really rolling as a program.

I have high hopes for AOC. He has a little of DiVencenzo's game. Just needs to get stronger.

[53n206]

3 point shooting won. We fave not done well in that part of our recent games. Re Ks- just one more go in.

[brevity]

Has it really been 15 years? Never forget. (http://www.pressdemocrat.com/sports/6838405-181/benefield-why-i-really-really)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvW0SGEqC5k

[rsvman]

Crap game. First half was especially bad basketball. If Brunson is the best player in the country, college basketball is in real trouble.

A real shame we didn't get a chance to play them.

If Michigan were in the ACC, where do you think they would have finished in the regular season? Fourth? Fifth?

This is what happens when an entire half of the bracket gets destroyed in the first weekend. Sigh.

[Bluedog]

If Michigan were in the ACC, where do you think they would have finished in the regular season? Fourth? Fifth?

I'm pretty sure that's about where Michigan finished in the B1G too. 😉

[6th Man]

Duke did not play with intensity? The Duke-Kansas game was one of the best of the tourney. Duke made one mistake and it cost them.

We got outrebounded 47-32. Flip that and it isn't one of the best games of the tourney because we win going away.

Hats off to Nova. They deserved this tournament.

[rsvman]

Oh, and one more thought. Can we go back in time and have JD King pick Kansas to beat us? Please?

[gep]

I've been bouncing between the various broadcasts. The Nova-cast play-by-play guy is OK, but the rest of them seem like hacks to me. With the game pretty much in Nova's hands, I started wondering - who will do the Duke Teamcast *when* they make the FF? Realistic choices only - somebody might say JWill, Bilas or the like, but ABC/ESPN would never loan to CBS.

For color, the logical choice would be Spanarkel since he's already on contract with CBS. They would easily provide him. Another choice would be Gminski as long as his contract with the ACC Network says it's OK. Either one would make Randy Foye on the Nova cast look mundane... oh wait, he already does.

For play-by-play, not sure. Not sure of someone with a direct Duke connection. But Tim Brando does ACC Network, and I'd be fine with him.

For color, I wouldn't want schtick like having Ron Riggle doing the KU teamcast. I hope they wouldn't get Duke alum Ken Jeong (he's on promos for some show coming up after the FF). I like the guy, but I want a real sideline reporter. Former Duke WBB hoops star Abby Waner used to do ESPNU, but I haven't seen her in a while. Anybody else?

I think I recall that a few years ago... maybe when CBS first got 4 tv networks to broadcast all rounds of 64 and 32 games, that Jay Bilas was on one of those games... at least. I remember being surprised that an ESPN guy would be on the CBS broadcast. :confused:

[SoCalDukeFan]

Crap game. First half was especially bad basketball. If Brunson is the best player in the country, college basketball is in real trouble.

A real shame we didn't get a chance to play them.

If Michigan were in the ACC, where do you think they would have finished in the regular season? Fourth? Fifth?

This is what happens when an entire half of the bracket gets destroyed in the first weekend. Sigh.

First of all Michigan finished 5th in the Big 10 or whatever it is regular season. So what?

We did not get a chance to play Villanova because we lost to a team they beat easily.

If you don't think Villanova is the best team in the country then I cannot help you.

What Jay Wright is doing at Villanova is remarkable. 2 NC in 3 years with mostly different players. No superstar one and doners. Their teams are fun to watch and players develop in the program. Coach K is the GOAT but Wright is the best right now.

SoCal

[Ian]

Almost the every major contributor at Nova was a reshirt. Pascal, Spellman, DiVincenzo, Bridges, Booth, all 5 redshirted. That means they were all willing to sit out a year to get better and wait their turn to play in college. Remarkable.

[mr. synellinden]

Almost the every major contributor at Nova was a reshirt. Pascal, Spellman, DiVincenzo, Bridges, Booth, all 5 redshirted. That means they were all willing to sit out a year to get better and wait their turn to play in college. Remarkable.

Mostly true. Spellman was a redshirt because he had no choice. NCAA ruled him ineligible last year and he would not have redshirted but for that.

[pfrduke]

Almost the every major contributor at Nova was a reshirt. Pascal, Spellman, DiVincenzo, Bridges, Booth, all 5 redshirted. That means they were all willing to sit out a year to get better and wait their turn to play in college. Remarkable.

Paschal was a transfer from Fordham, so that was his year out.

Spellman was academically ineligible.

DiVincenzo broke his foot and missed most of a season (early enough that he could count it as a RS)

Booth had a knee injury that left him out all but two games last year (early enough he could count it as a RS)

The only healthy RS was Bridges.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Would've liked to see Duke get a shot at this Nova team... we might not have prevailed but we would have played against the best team in the country.

No one really gave them a run for their money except maybe Texas Tech? These 2 games were not competitive at all really...



Tech missed the chance....that was the game Nova was ripe for the picking....they couldn't hit anything, but Tech could not capitalize. I really don't think TT players or coaches thought they could beat Nova, because the chance was right there and TT couldn't do it.

It's often said that one key to winning it all is to somehow survive your bad game....Nova survived theirs, and they were lights out for the next two. Nova was the one team that could beat Duke even if Duke played really well. That said, it would've been nice to get a shot at them...to see how they handled our zone, our length.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Paschal was a transfer from Fordham, so that was his year out.

Spellman was academically ineligible.

DiVincenzo broke his foot and missed most of a season (early enough that he could count it as a RS)

Booth had a knee injury that left him out all but two games last year (early enough he could count it as a RS)

The only healthy RS was Bridges.

Way to destroy the narrative, pfrduke.

:)

Props to Nova. After WVU challenged them in the second weekend, they pretty much coasted. Impressive run.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Way to destroy the narrative, pfrduke.

:)

Props to Nova. After WVU challenged them in the second weekend, they pretty much coasted. Impressive run.

Lol. Still, impressive that they kept all those guys together. It will be interesting to see who leaves. They could all return if they wanted -- though admittedly that seems highly unlikely.

[chris13]

Oh, and one more thought. Can we go back in time and have JD King pick Kansas to beat us? Please?

JD went 0-3. Next year I have to bet the opposite of his picks.

It’s hard to see imagine anyone beating Villanova in this tournament. They were great. So fun to watch on offense.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

JD went 0-3. Next year I have to bet the opposite of his picks.

It’s hard to see imagine anyone beating Villanova in this tournament. They were great. So fun to watch on offense.

I suspect they can go all the way

[CDu]

Almost the every major contributor at Nova was a reshirt. Pascal, Spellman, DiVincenzo, Bridges, Booth, all 5 redshirted. That means they were all willing to sit out a year to get better and wait their turn to play in college. Remarkable.

This myth was dispelled in a previous thread, but glad to see pfrduke has dispelled it here too. Villanova didn’t convince five guys to redshirt and “wait their turn.” Two were forced to sit out by rule (transfer; academically ineligible). Three were forced out for a year by injury. Only one actually redshirted optionally.

[CDu]

Duke needs to recruit diamonds in the rough. I absolutely love our incoming class, but Villanova is really rolling as a program.

Villanova will probably lose Brunson (a McDs All-American) and Bridges (a diamond in the rough). Their incredible run (which was really one great year, another good year punctuated by a great tourney run, and a bunch of early exits) will likely be derailed a bit next year unless Spellman (a top-20 guy) or Booth (diamond in the rough) really step up.

[YmoBeThere]

This myth was dispelled in a previous thread, but glad to see pfrduke has dispelled it here too. Villanova didn’t convince five guys to redshirt and “wait their turn.” Two were forced to sit out by rule (transfer; academically ineligible). Three were forced out for a year by injury. Only one actually redshirted optionally.

What was the myth? Did they redshirt or not? Two likely benefitted from sitting out a year due to a cause was of their making(transfer/academics). The other three may or may not have had the extra practice time, travel time, depending upon injury rehab, etc. The net effect in two of 5 cases is the same and depending upon the other 3 could have been anywhere from slightly to mostly the same. I don't see how that dispels the fact that all five are a year older. There is some benefit to that.

[chris13]

I suspect they can go all the way

I worded that poorly. Based on their dominant run, I suspect Villanova would have beaten Duke if Duke had beaten Kansas, and any of the 1/2 seeds from the other half of the bracket if they had survived.

Michigan benefitted from all the upsets in their way to the Final, and I think it hurt them a little because Villanova was so much better than sny team they had played while Villanova had played a 3 seed in the Elite 8 and a 1 seed in the Semi Final

[fraggler]

What was the myth? Did they redshirt or not? Two likely benefitted from sitting out a year due to a cause was of their making(transfer/academics). The other three may or may not have had the extra practice time, travel time, depending upon injury rehab, etc. The net effect in two of 5 cases is the same and depending upon the other 3 could have been anywhere from slightly to mostly the same. I don't see how that dispels the fact that all five are a year older. There is some benefit to that.

The myth is that it was some sort of intentional design to redshirt on the part of the players due to their own patience. No one is disputing that 1) they redshirted or 2) that the extra time spent in the program wasn't beneficial. Ian and others have beating the drum that there is some way to accurately identify 4 and 5 star players that will stay longer. He was implying here that it was a choice for these guys to redshirt.

[wavedukefan70s]

Villanova peaked at the right time.they shot well for the tourney.played good D.at no time from the start of the tournament did I think anyone else would win it.my money went on nova. I had hoped duke would put a good run and pull it off.bets be damned.
Not that nova did it.but holding kids back to let them mature a bit is done in highschools.why not college.it works.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

What was the myth? Did they redshirt or not? Two likely benefitted from sitting out a year due to a cause was of their making(transfer/academics). The other three may or may not have had the extra practice time, travel time, depending upon injury rehab, etc. The net effect in two of 5 cases is the same and depending upon the other 3 could have been anywhere from slightly to mostly the same. I don't see how that dispels the fact that all five are a year older. There is some benefit to that.

The myth is that all these players put their egos and professional aspirations aside for the team, laboring an extra year on essentially the practice squad, hitting the gym, cracking the books, learning team defense while our selfish one and done players were planning how best to spend their millions, playing on the video game machines, and sleeping til noon.

The myth is that there's some level of self-sacrifice involved here with the redshirts. These kids are great, and it seems they run a nice program and have a good coach, but they are Sister Jean or anything.

[camion]

Villanova peaked at the right time.they shot well for the tourney.played good D.at no time from the start of the tournament did I think anyone else would win it.my money went on nova. I had hoped duke would put a good run and pull it off.bets be damned.
Not that nova did it.but holding kids back to let them mature a bit is done in highschools.why not college.it works.

It's a fine strategy if you can implement it as an actual strategy. The trick is finding kids who will buy into it. How do you do that?

Villanova had a lot of red shirts, but it wasn't really a strategy. It was happenstance, as noted by posters earlier in this thread. Also, you don't really need to red shirt kids. The ideal would be to play them, get them game experience and convince them to stay an extra year or two. Turn one and dones into three and dones. It's simple really. Not easy, but simple.

[Reilly]

... all five are a year older. There is some benefit to that.

Hanstravel recommends two.

[uh_no]

Their incredible run (which was really one great year, another good year punctuated by a great tourney run, and a bunch of early exits) will likely be derailed a bit next year unless Spellman (a top-20 guy) or Booth (diamond in the rough) really step up.

I think that's selling them a bit short. Their past 4 efficiency rankings are 5, 1, 2, 1. That's not just "one great year." They have easily been the best team by the numbers and in the tournament over the past 4 years, and nobody even comes close.

[wavedukefan70s]

It's a fine strategy if you can implement it as an actual strategy. The trick is finding kids who will buy into it. How do you do that?

Villanova had a lot of red shirts, but it wasn't really a strategy. It was happenstance, as noted by posters earlier in this thread. Also, you don't really need to red shirt kids. The ideal would be to play them, get them game experience and convince them to stay an extra year or two. Turn one and dones into three and dones. It's simple really. Not easy, but simple.

I'm not sure how to in college.but before you get to high school at some schools here.its expected. ideally it has to be done before the eigth grade.you cant repeat a year and play b team jv or varsity ball.
I'm sure someone will try at some point.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It's a fine strategy if you can implement it as an actual strategy. The trick is finding kids who will buy into it. How do you do that?

Villanova had a lot of red shirts, but it wasn't really a strategy. It was happenstance, as noted by posters earlier in this thread. Also, you don't really need to red shirt kids. The ideal would be to play them, get them game experience and convince them to stay an extra year or two. Turn one and dones into three and dones. It's simple really. Not easy, but simple.

This is a bit ridiculous. In this day and age, kids will transfer if they don't get the playing time they expect by the time December rolls around. If you are "convincing" a kid he needs an extra year of seasoning, you are working with a lower level of talent. I don't want to turn this into yet another thread discussing what level of talent Duke should pursue, but Top, say, 100 players are not going to be stoked to sit an extra year.

Point being, this "strategy" isn't being employed at Nova, and it is very unlikely to be a viable plan for any Power Five team.

[CDu]

The myth is that it was some sort of intentional design to redshirt on the part of the players due to their own patience. No one is disputing that 1) they redshirted or 2) that the extra time spent in the program wasn't beneficial. Ian and others have beating the drum that there is some way to accurately identify 4 and 5 star players that will stay longer. He was implying here that it was a choice for these guys to redshirt.

Bingo. The redshirting wasn’t by design except for Bridges. Divincenzo and Booth only redshirted because they were injured, not because of great planning by Wright. Spellman was ruled academically ineligible as a frosh. Paschall was required to sit because he transferred. It was being presented as this remarkable approach by Wright and selflessness by the players to get all these guys to accept a redshirt, when that isn’t at all what happened. All but one of those guys was forced by external circumstances to redshirt. Heck, if anything the Booth redshirt and Spellman ineligibility actually hurt Nova. Booth would surely have helped them as a likely starter last year after being a significant contributor on the 2016 title team, and Spellman would have been a huge boost inside as a top-20 big man replacing Ochefu.

[Turk]

Well, they did this in 2015 so you don't have to guess. 😀 Alaa Abdelnaby was the color guy and he talked about how it was fun to finally be allowed to actively cheer for Duke. Can't recall the play by play...

Edit: play by play was Tom Werme.

Alaa is doing Sixers color commentary now, and does a pretty good job as wingman for Marc Zumoff. He's also getting in more Duke plugs these days since JJ joined the Sixers.

Speaking of announcers, I've been disappointed with Grant Hill - he sounds nice but he doesn't really say anything of interest or add anything of value. He's barely a notch or two above Chris Webber.

I do wonder what rules CBS and the NCAA imposes on the announcers. As others noted, there were some dubious calls / non-calls that were essentially ignored last night. After all, they impose 3 minute TV timeouts and 20 minute halftimes among several dozen other indignities to the game, so a memo to the broadcasters with a few "talking points" would hardly be a surprise. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to chase some pesky kids off my lawn.

[KandG]

Duke needs to recruit diamonds in the rough. I absolutely love our incoming class, but Villanova is really rolling as a program.

Not picking on heyman25 specifically, but all references to Duke needing to find "diamonds in the rough" and 3 and 4 star players and transfers, and ditch the OAD strategy: go to "2018 Basketball Recruiting Thread", and follow the entire discussion from yesterday. Specifically start with Posts 2309 and 2311 and 2323, and go from there. Generally anything from CDu and Kedsy is worth reading, though several other posters (sorry I can't name them all) make equally good points.

I actually wish DBR had a "pinned post/thread" or "featured discussion" of some type so that we could just put that specific discussion at the top to head off the sheer volume of "Be More like Villanova/UNC/Virginia" posts that are now proliferating.

[YmoBeThere]

The strategy seems to be utilized by quite a few in football...I’m not saying it will work but that is the analog. Has anyone broken down average minutes played by class year for all the NCAA champions since the one and done era started in 2006? Or perhaps for all Final 4 participants during that time period?

[fraggler]

The strategy seems to be utilized by quite a few in football...I’m not saying it will work but that is the analog. Has anyone broken down average minutes played by class year for all the NCAA champions since the one and done era started in 2006? Or perhaps for all Final 4 participants during that time period?

If you insist that intentionally redshirting and finding diamonds in the rough can actually be a strategy, can't you do the work to provide evidence? You seem to be ignoring those who have provided counter-evidence already.

[Danke Shane]

Speaking of announcers, I've been disappointed with Grant Hill - he sounds nice but he doesn't really say anything of interest or add anything of value. He's barely a notch or two above Chris Webber.



I agree. Something about having three commentators for a basketball broadcast is just awkward. I feel like Grant Hill is quiet for really long stretches, and then as they break to commercial he'll just blurt something super generic like 'big guy showin' some hops!!!!'

[CDu]

The strategy seems to be utilized by quite a few in football...I’m not saying it will work but that is the analog. Has anyone broken down average minutes played by class year for all the NCAA champions since the one and done era started in 2006? Or perhaps for all Final 4 participants during that time period?

The strategy works in football for two reasons:
1. The size/strength differences between 18 year olds and 21-22 year olds matters much more in a sport like football than basketball. Very few freshmen are physically ready to contribute in football. Most of the talented freshmen are ready to compete in basketball.
2. The rules of the NFL are conducive to redshirting. You have to be 3 years passed high school in order to be draft-eligible for the NFL. In basketball, it's just one year.

There are only two Power-6 teams that have really done much in the way of redshirting players: Kansas and UVa. UVa has done it with several guys over the years under Tony Bennett: identifying guys in the sub-100 recruit range and convincing them that they should sit out a year rather than just not play and waste a year of eligibility. Kansas did it for a couple of years under Self with some lower-tier big guys back when they had their special strength and conditioning coach, but that practice has seemed to fall off more recently.

So basically, it's a model that isn't easily replicated in basketball as it is in football, and hasn't really been done in practice in basketball.

[Nugget]

The strategy works in football for two reasons:
1. The size/strength differences between 18 year olds and 21-22 year olds matters much more in a sport like football than basketball. Very few freshmen are physically ready to contribute in football. Most of the talented freshmen are ready to compete in basketball.
2. The rules of the NFL are conducive to redshirting. You have to be 3 years passed high school in order to be draft-eligible for the NFL. In basketball, it's just one year.

There are only two Power-6 teams that have really done much in the way of redshirting players: Kansas and UVa. UVa has done it with several guys over the years under Tony Bennett: identifying guys in the sub-100 recruit range and convincing them that they should sit out a year rather than just not play and waste a year of eligibility. Kansas did it for a couple of years under Self with some lower-tier big guys back when they had their special strength and conditioning coach, but that practice has seemed to fall off more recently.

So basically, it's a model that isn't easily replicated in basketball as it is in football, and hasn't really been done in practice in basketball.

I think Mike Brey has also done this at Notre Dame (with the "get old and stay old" mantra) and, to a lesser degree, Bo Ryan did it at Wisconsin. And, it can be quite successful (and may well be more emotionally satisfying for those fans who pine for the old days when we mostly got to know players over 4 year careers) -- but as Kedsy and CDu have proved by the numbers, it isn't demonstrably more successful than pursuing the best talent each year.

And, for current Duke fans, it's kind of pointless to bemoan our not following this approach since, as Troublemaker has noted, Coach K has made clear in his public comments that, for however many years he has left to coach, he is going to continue pursuing as many of the top players who fit into Duke's academics and culture as he can get -- even if it means having multiple one and dones each year.

[wavedukefan70s]

The strategy works in football for two reasons:
1. The size/strength differences between 18 year olds and 21-22 year olds matters much more in a sport like football than basketball. Very few freshmen are physically ready to contribute in football. Most of the talented freshmen are ready to compete in basketball.
2. The rules of the NFL are conducive to redshirting. You have to be 3 years passed high school in order to be draft-eligible for the NFL. In basketball, it's just one year.

There are only two Power-6 teams that have really done much in the way of redshirting players: Kansas and UVa. UVa has done it with several guys over the years under Tony Bennett: identifying guys in the sub-100 recruit range and convincing them that they should sit out a year rather than just not play and waste a year of eligibility. Kansas did it for a couple of years under Self with some lower-tier big guys back when they had their special strength and conditioning coach, but that practice has seemed to fall off more recently.

So basically, it's a model that isn't easily replicated in basketball as it is in football, and hasn't really been done in practice in basketball.

That is true .we have had numerous football players leave in dec from high school they graduate and turn 21.we have a lot of 19 to 20 yr old jr and seniors aswell.the physical differences between a 20 yr old football player vs 17 or 18 is huge. basketball doesn't require the body maturity that the grid iron does.

[richardjackson199]

Congrats to Villanova

I was rooting for Michigan last night because Beilein hasn't won 1, has come close, and seems like a good coach, good guy, and does things the right way. Plus Nova is quickly emerging as a powerhouse. Borzello was all over ESPN yesterday calling Nova the best College basketball program in the nation right now.

But what would really suck is if Roy had won this tourney and we got to hear how amazing he is. Or Calipari with his youngest team ever. Given that side of the bracket, those outcomes were not impossible.

After hearing Jay Wright, I can't help but be happy for Villanova. Tbyers and Troublemaker were absolutely right - Jay Wright is NOT leaving Nova for Duke or another college program. You should really listen to his post-game presser from last night. It starts around 56 minutes. Or just listen to his first couple answers around the 58 minute mark. This guy is by far the hottest coach in college basketball right now. He looks like George Clooney and coaches like a super-genius. But when he talks he sounds very humble and hungry. He's great with the media, never condescending. He talks about being proud of a team-first attitude at Nova, being class off-the court, graduating, being authentic, big-East killer mentality, and talks about how much he loves his dream job.

Listen to Jay Wright nail this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMVhWaBGju0

And his teams are amazing. No Arcidiacono; no Ochefu; No Josh Hart; No Kris Jenkins; No Darryl Reynolds; No Problem. All 5 guys on the floor could be brilliant shooters; brilliant passers; and brilliant defenders; playing completely unselfishly forming as formidable a team as you'll see without OAD talent. Then the 6th guy off the bench comes in going off for 31 (more if he'd made free throws), super-blocks, and no-look assists. Wright game plans better than anybody, plays a virtually unstoppable style, and makes flawless looking in-game adjustments. I'm in awe.

When K retires; Duke should offer to double Wright's salary and offer him. And expect Wright to say wow, but no thanks, immediately. As he should. I wouldn't trade K for anybody and I absolutely have no problem with K recruiting OAD's. He's recruiting the best players available as he always has, and we could not be luckier at how well he's done. I hope next year goes better, but I'm keeping expectations low and hoping for the best.

But I couldn't be more impressed with Jay Wright and Villanova. Just wow. It's reminescent of what K did in 91 when everybody pulled for Duke to upset juggernaut UNLV. And then 92 when folks realized K had just solidified the best program in the nation and wasn't going anywhere any time soon. Different era, but there are parallels. Villanova has arrived, is a blue-blood, and it isn't a bad thing. I could think of a lot worse schools and coaches who could be on top of the world right now.

Hopefully this makes K and Duke even more humble and hungry to work this off-season, get better, restore order, and be the ones celebrating next April. But I disagree with Vegas oddsmakers; I'd be less surprised to see Nova do it again. I'll always be cheering 100% for Duke, but I can admire and respect true greatness when I see it.

[CDu]

I think Mike Brey has also done this at Notre Dame (with the "get old and stay old" mantra) and, to a lesser degree, Bo Ryan did it at Wisconsin. And, it can be quite successful (and may well be more emotionally satisfying for those fans who pine for the old days when we mostly got to know players over 4 year careers) --

I don't think either of those guys were regularly redshirting guys, which was the point. I do agree that they tended to have veteran teams that stuck together for many years. Of course, neither of them have maintained elite status..


but as Kedsy and CDu have proved by the numbers, it isn't demonstrably more successful than pursuing the best talent each year.

Beyond just that, it's the opposite. Teams that have multiple one-and-dones have had demonstrably more tourney success than any other type of team. No, they don't win it every year, or even most years. But that's because there are so very few that can have multiple one-and-dones in any given year. As in, 2 or 3 in a year at most; there have only been 5 teams (UK, Duke, KU, Kansas, OSU) that have ever done it, and only two (UK, Duke) have even done it twice. Conversely, there are ~350 schools per year working with the other model. So the fact that 12 of those 15 teams made the Sweet-16, 9 made the Elite-8, 6 made the Final Four, and 2 won the whole thing gets muted over time. If you had a team that had that run of success over a 15 year period, you'd call that a dynasty. That's approximately equal to what Duke did from 1986-2000 (that group had 1 more Final Four and 2 more title game appearances, but also one more first-round exit), and only short of what Duke did from 1987-2001 and what UCLA did when Wooden was there.

[mgtr]

Others may have made this point, but DiVincenzo last night reminded me very much of sophomore Grayson. Wonder whatever happened to that guy??? Happy that we had what we did of him, though.

[Spanarkel]

The strategy works in football for two reasons:
1. The size/strength differences between 18 year olds and 21-22 year olds matters much more in a sport like football than basketball. Very few freshmen are physically ready to contribute in football. Most of the talented freshmen are ready to compete in basketball.
2. The rules of the NFL are conducive to redshirting. You have to be 3 years passed high school in order to be draft-eligible for the NFL. In basketball, it's just one year.

There are only two Power-6 teams that have really done much in the way of redshirting players: Kansas and UVa. UVa has done it with several guys over the years under Tony Bennett: identifying guys in the sub-100 recruit range and convincing them that they should sit out a year rather than just not play and waste a year of eligibility. Kansas did it for a couple of years under Self with some lower-tier big guys back when they had their special strength and conditioning coach, but that practice has seemed to fall off more recently.

So basically, it's a model that isn't easily replicated in basketball as it is in football, and hasn't really been done in practice in basketball.

As you mentioned, UVa has redshirted/is actively redshirting players with 5 members of this past season's Cavalier squad carrying the redshirt designation, none for reasons of injury/college transfer that I could tell. Of those 5, only Jay Huff from Durham has yet to be a major contributor and he seems to have very good potential.

[dukelifer]

Congrats to Villanova

I was rooting for Michigan last night because Beilein hasn't won 1, has come close, and seems like a good coach, good guy, and does things the right way. Plus Nova is quickly emerging as a powerhouse. Borzello was all over ESPN yesterday calling Nova the best College basketball program in the nation right now.

But what would really suck is if Roy had won this tourney and we got to hear how amazing he is. Or Calipari with his youngest team ever. Given that side of the bracket, those outcomes were not impossible.

After hearing Jay Wright, I can't help but be happy for Villanova. Tbyers and Troublemaker were absolutely right - Jay Wright is NOT leaving Nova for Duke or another college program. You should really listen to his post-game presser from last night. It starts around 56 minutes. Or just listen to his first couple answers around the 58 minute mark. This guy is by far the hottest coach in college basketball right now. He looks like George Clooney and coaches like a super-genius. But when he talks he sounds very humble and hungry. He's great with the media, never condescending. He talks about being proud of a team-first attitude at Nova, being class off-the court, graduating, being authentic, big-East killer mentality, and talks about how much he loves his dream job.

Listen to Jay Wright nail this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMVhWaBGju0

And his teams are amazing. No Arcidiacono; no Ochefu; No Josh Hart; No Kris Jenkins; No Darryl Reynolds; No Problem. All 5 guys on the floor could be brilliant shooters; brilliant passers; and brilliant defenders; playing completely unselfishly forming as formidable a team as you'll see without OAD talent. Then the 6th guy off the bench comes in going off for 31 (more if he'd made free throws), super-blocks, and no-look assists. Wright game plans better than anybody, plays a virtually unstoppable style, and makes flawless looking in-game adjustments. I'm in awe.

When K retires; Duke should offer to double Wright's salary and offer him. And expect Wright to say wow, but no thanks, immediately. As he should. I wouldn't trade K for anybody and I absolutely have no problem with K recruiting OAD's. He's recruiting the best players available as he always has, and we could not be luckier at how well he's done. I hope next year goes better, but I'm keeping expectations low and hoping for the best.

But I couldn't be more impressed with Jay Wright and Villanova. Just wow. It's reminescent of what K did in 91 when everybody pulled for Duke to upset juggernaut UNLV. And then 92 when folks realized K had just solidified the best program in the nation and wasn't going anywhere any time soon. Different era, but there are parallels. Villanova has arrived, is a blue-blood, and it isn't a bad thing. I could think of a lot worse schools and coaches who could be on top of the world right now.

Hopefully this makes K and Duke even more humble and hungry to work this off-season, get better, restore order, and be the ones celebrating next April. But I disagree with Vegas oddsmakers; I'd be less surprised to see Nova do it again. I'll always be cheering 100% for Duke, but I can admire and respect true greatness when I see it.

It can eventually come together for some programs. Virginia has made the turn in conference and is consistently at or near the top and Nova is doing it at the conference and national level. When you have multiple shooters and ball handlers that all commit to defense - good things can happen. UVa has not gotten the shooters/scorers it needs to make the next step. And once you have a system and excellent coaching you can plug in guys as needed. It is not a given that Nova will be able to sustain this- a few guys go pro- an injury here or there- and multiple seasons can get derailed. Also, coaches can lose the fire to do the little things. But it is all pointing in a positive direction for Nova and they are a deserving champ. We all know that K's career is winding down. It is unlikely that Roy or Jay will catch him before he retires. But I also am also not sure K will get another. Next year is his best one and done chance he has and after that it is very uncertain. Winning it all sometimes takes some luck. Michigan got to the final game by never playing a seed higher than themselves and put themselves in a position where they could have won. I like what Nova is doing- a good mix of strong D and tenacious O with many guys capable of passing, driving and shooting. Only a few teams beat them this year. Butler beat them by shooting almost 70% from 3. Creighton also did it with excellent three point shooting. For the most part they were always a tough out. It is interesting that another smallish private school has become a basketball powerhouse. They are, however, unlikely to get the hate that Duke gets if they continue to win more championships - because their kids are seen as blue collar - hardworking players. It will be interesting to see how things evolve from here.

[Ian]

It can eventually come together for some programs. Virginia has made the turn in conference and is consistently at or near the top and Nova is doing it at the conference and national level. When you have multiple shooters and ball handlers that all commit to defense - good things can happen. UVa has not gotten the shooters/scorers it needs to make the next step. And once you have a system and excellent coaching you can plug in guys as needed. It is not a given that Nova will be able to sustain this- a few guys go pro- an injury here or there- and multiple seasons can get derailed. Also, coaches can lose the fire to do the little things. But it is all pointing in a positive direction for Nova and they are a deserving champ. We all know that K's career is winding down. It is unlikely that Roy or Jay will catch him before he retires. But I also am also not sure K will get another. Next year is his best one and done chance he has and after that it is very uncertain. Winning it all sometimes takes some luck. Michigan got to the final game by never playing a seed higher than themselves and put themselves in a position where they could have won. I like what Nova is doing- a good mix of strong D and tenacious O with many guys capable of passing, driving and shooting. Only a few teams beat them this year. Butler beat them by shooting almost 70% from 3. Creighton also did it with excellent three point shooting. For the most part they were always a tough out. It is interesting that another smallish private school has become a basketball powerhouse. They are, however, unlikely to get the hate that Duke gets if they continue to win more championships - because their kids are seen as blue collar - hardworking players. It will be interesting to see how things evolve from here.

If they win enough, they'll become hated too. That's just how it works. The Patriots were once the hardworking blue-collar underdogs, and then they won too much and is hated. Same with Duke, most of the country probably rooted for Duke against UNLV back in the day too.l

[HereBeforeCoachK]

If they win enough, they'll become hated too. That's just how it works. The Patriots were once the hardworking blue-collar underdogs, and then they won too much and is hated. Same with Duke, most of the country probably rooted for Duke against UNLV back in the day too.l

But there's something extra with Duke hate.....it's way beyond the normal for a top program....it's the Laettner Ferry JJ Grayson effect...the coach K appears to sneer affect.....lot of projection onto Duke that is not true, but which drives the hate. It's out of control nationally .