Loss Coping

[freshmanjs]

I know for some of us, it's immediate and easy to move past a season ending or UNC loss. For others (me included), it can be difficult. I've found that as I've gotten older, the losses have gotten harder to take for some reason. Anyway, I'm wondering what are some techniques you all use to move on? Wallowing in the message board doesn't seem to be doing it for me :)

[22JumpShots]

I know for some of us, it's immediate and easy to move past a season ending or UNC loss. For others (me included), it can be difficult. I've found that as I've gotten older, the losses have gotten harder to take for some reason. Anyway, I'm wondering what are some techniques you all use to move on? Wallowing in the message board doesn't seem to be doing it for me :)

I am pretty sad right now....but these two videos help a little..

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6pUv5JldIU
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7FFJUz0tdo

Edit - Especially #2. I don't care what happened to us last night (or didn't happen, rather).....that was way, way way worse. Devastatingly worse.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I know for some of us, it's immediate and easy to move past a season ending or UNC loss. For others (me included), it can be difficult. I've found that as I've gotten older, the losses have gotten harder to take for some reason. Anyway, I'm wondering what are some techniques you all use to move on? Wallowing in the message board doesn't seem to be doing it for me :)

OMG....I thought I was alone.....I was telling my kids just the other day that as I get older, I enjoy the wins less and I hate the losses more....and I always thought it would be the other way around.

Glad to know I'm not alone.

And coping? Best done with strong drink...straight liquor.....and wallowing some on the message boards helps a tad too. Watching a replay of Grayon's shot is not helpful at all.

[Jeffrey]

Anyway, I'm wondering what are some techniques you all use to move on?

Are you healthy?
Is your family healthy?

[Ian]

OMG...I thought I was alone....I was telling my kids just the other day that as I get older, I enjoy the wins less and I hate the losses more...and I always thought it would be the other way around.

Glad to know I'm not alone.

And coping? Best done with strong drink...straight liquor....and wallowing some on the message boards helps a tad too. Watching a replay of Grayon's shot is not helpful at all.

For me it's exactly the opposite, the losses used to crush me, 1993, 1994, 1998, 1999, 2002, 2004, those losses took me weeks to get over. This one I got over after a good night sleep. The key for me is to not have such high expectations at the start and during the season. Tempered expectations make you treasure the wins more and emotionally ready to deal with the losses.

[freshmanjs]

Are you healthy?
Is your family healthy?

Me - mostly. Family - not particularly, lots of issues.

[jimsumner]

Hey, I slept like a baby last night.

Woke up every two hours, crying.

I'll be here all week, folks.

[CDu]

Oddly, this year hurts less. I guess because the team still had a deep run and only lost in a close game to a top-5/10 team in a 50/50 game. It also helps that my expectations had been tempered enough throughout the year, and we had never really fired on all cylinders this year. Last year was tougher for me for some reason, probably because we lost early, to a lesser opponent, and didn’t finish further than UNC.

That said, I can’t say that I have any answers to how to cope. Losing sucks. Every time. And it sucks more because this might be one of Duke’s last great talent collections under Coach K. I can’t assume we will keep landing 3-4 top-10 guys every year from here on out. I really want him to get a 6th (to pass Dean and Roy combined), even a 7th (to pass UNC’s total) before he goes. And this group had a real shot at it. I guess the speed bumps along the way just dulled my senses a bit.

[75Crazie]

Judging from an increasing trend I see on this board, and see to a much greater extent on other boards, many people attempt to cope by blaming losses on external factors ... primarily, referee calls. Whatever gets you through the night.

[MarkD83]

For me it's exactly the opposite, the losses used to crush me, 1993, 1994, 1998, 1999, 2002, 2004, those losses took me weeks to get over. This one I got over after a good night sleep. The key for me is to not have such high expectations at the start and during the season. Tempered expectations make you treasure the wins more and emotionally ready to deal with the losses.

I am in full agreement with Ian on this one. High EXPECTATIONS are the things that make losses difficult to take so I try to have no expectations for any season. In fact I am thinking of starting a social experiment for next year which you will see in a thread in a few minutes.....

[HereBeforeCoachK]

For me it's exactly the opposite, the losses used to crush me, 1993, 1994, 1998, 1999, 2002, 2004, those losses took me weeks to get over. This one I got over after a good night sleep. The key for me is to not have such high expectations at the start and during the season. Tempered expectations make you treasure the wins more and emotionally ready to deal with the losses.

I thought I'd be this way too...but like that other poster, I am not. I was crushed by 86 loss, and yes, 94 really sucked...that blind shot over Tony Lang. How that one goes in and Grayson's spins out is beyond me...98 blowing the 17 point lead because we couldn't hit a dadgum free throw....99 best team in the nation...2004...yeah they all sucked.

BTW...the really crushing thing about the 94 loss? I had a multi million dollar tee shirt, cup, cap, poster idea:

1991 DUKE
1992 DUKE
1993 FLUKE
1994 DUKE

Even my Tar Heel friends admitted that would've been a zillion seller. Heck, it would still sell today. My nephew, who was 8 in 1994, just reminded me the other day about DUKE DUKE FLUKE DUKE.

[Jeffrey]

Me - mostly. Family - not particularly, lots of issues.

Sorry to hear about your family!

[Jeffrey]

And this group had a real shot at it.

Strongly agree. On the right day, we could have beat any team!

[freshmanjs]

The key for me is to not have such high expectations at the start and during the season. Tempered expectations make you treasure the wins more and emotionally ready to deal with the losses.

How do you accomplish this?

[Steven43]

Hey, I slept like a baby last night.

Woke up every two hours, crying.

I'll be here all week, folks.

That was really funny. Laughed out loud while in line at Sheetz in Mebane. Thanks, Jim.

[Ian]

How do you accomplish this?

Ignore all pre-season media hype, ignore recruit rankings. Wait until after you see them play a few games against legit competition before forming opinions on how good they are/can be. Be realistic in your evalution and don't get pie in sky about "if this player improves on this and that player gets better at that we can be SOOOO GOOOD", and accept that while players do improve, for the most part they do it between seasons and during the season what you see is pretty much what you get.

[devil84]

I know for some of us, it's immediate and easy to move past a season ending or UNC loss. For others (me included), it can be difficult. I've found that as I've gotten older, the losses have gotten harder to take for some reason. Anyway, I'm wondering what are some techniques you all use to move on? Wallowing in the message board doesn't seem to be doing it for me :)

For me, as I've gotten older, the losses are easier to take. As a manager on Coach K's first four teams, those first four years provided Coach K with 20% of his career losses at Duke. After I graduated and Duke became a powerhouse, I had to keep reminding myself that we could go three or more years without losing as many games as we lost in just one season back then. Be happy for the wins. But the losses still stung.

Time passes. My children are now older than all college players. The conference, the game, the NCAA, and the team has changed -- we even play zone this year! To be sure, I revel in every win, I support the team fully, and watch every game. But the losses? In the grand scheme of things, only one team catches lightning in a bottle and wins it all. Every other team ends with a heartbreaking loss (except the NIT, DII, DIII and isn't there another tourney?) -- or they didn't make any tournament. We made it to the Elite 8, and were within centimeters of going to the Final Four. We fielded a very young team with young men who are excellent representatives of the University (and they go to class, too).

On Sunday, I was able to shake enough of my back pain (see several OT threads) to swim and begin part of my triathlon training again. I sadly bid farewell to my daughter's beautiful foster dog as she transferred to another foster home after watching her this past week. And I held my week-old grandbaby during the second half of the game that ended our season. It was an emotional day with extreme highs and lows.

Additionally, NC Central, UNC-G, and NC State made the tournament. Carolina was spectacularly upset. There's a Cinderella in the Final Four. We played a fantastic team and had an uncharacteristically cold shooting night, and it was a close, exciting game the whole way. Only one team could win, and it wasn't our turn.

And, I'm not on the team anymore. Imagine yourself as one of the players, coaches, managers, or staff. All I do is cheer for the team, ensure that I have my good luck charms in their appropriate locations on game day, and donate some money to the team. I'm not spending much of my waking hours each week being an integral part of game day and actually influencing the outcome (other than those good luck charms). Losses are brutal when you are a part of the team (even when they pile up during the season).

There's more to life than basketball. Coach would be the first to tell you that. It's ok to be down, even angry, after a loss and it's barely been 24 hours. Time heals wounds, but why does it move so slowly when it hurts? It's harder for those of us in the Triangle, with Tar Heel fans and Duke-haters so prevalent. Turn your attention to something else that makes you happy. Lose yourself in something wonderful: a good book, gardening, fitness endeavors, find a project to do with your family, volunteer for a worthy cause, and probably stop clicking on all those "DUKE LOST!!!!!" articles at every media outlet. Can't think of anything? See if there's something on the off-topic board that interests you (though careful with that Ymm...Beer thread!) if you want to still chat with the same board members, or start a thread with your passion.

We had an enjoyable journey this year with this young Duke team. It ended a bit too early for our taste. There's nothing we can do to change it, but we can savor the memories of watching this incredible bunch of young men. Remember the good stuff, and find that passion you've put aside to watch basketball games. I highly recommend holding an week old infant, particularly a first grandbaby, though I realize that newborn grandbabies aren't available to everyone at the end of a devastating loss. My grandson puts it all into perspective. There's something out there for everyone that will put it into perspective!

[fuse]

I have found losses to get easier to deal with over time.

I’d primarily say this is a key benefit to a OAD strategy.
Less attachment.

My biggest Duke heartbreak was Chris Carrawell just sobbing in K’s arms at the end of his career. Nothing has come close since.

I find myself working hard to find the joy in the wins, and dwelling less on the losses.

[Steven43]

On Sunday, I was able to shake enough of my back pain (see several OT threads) to swim and begin part of my triathlon training again. I sadly bid farewell to my daughter's beautiful foster dog as she transferred to another foster home after watching her this past week. And I held my week-old grandbaby during the second half of the game that ended our season.
Wait......you are a grandparent with back problems and you’re training for a triathlon??? What the heck?

[hudlow]

In this situation, I find consolation by reminding myself and all the uNC fans provoking me that...

At least Duke wasn't the defending national champs - returning 8 lettermen - and got a 21 point shellacking by a *much* lower seeded team.

It helps me a little and makes the baby blue bunch slightly entertaining.

[weezie]

...1999... 2004, those losses took me weeks to get over...

Those two left a mark, I agree.

But, here we all are, still cheering, yelling, battling and laughing with, at and over each other.

It could be worse and I firmly believe it will get better. So many former players, no matter where their paths lead them, all are now fans, just like us. We pull for Duke together!

(And please, no guff about anyone who left under less than ideal circumstances.)

LET'S GO DEVILS!!!

[Devilwin]

For me, it's been watching video of the four studs we have coming next season.

[weezie]

...And I held my week-old grandbaby during the second half of the game that ended our season...

Amen and congratulations devil84!

Over the moon are you I'm willing to bet!

[BigWayne]

On Sunday, I was able to shake enough of my back pain (see several OT threads) to swim and begin part of my triathlon training again. I sadly bid farewell to my daughter's beautiful foster dog as she transferred to another foster home after watching her this past week. And I held my week-old grandbaby during the second half of the game that ended our season. It was an emotional day with extreme highs and lows.



Yes, it's a good time to get back to the rest of your life. I took advantage of the first halfway dry weekend day in a while to get out and mow the lawn after the game. Next weekend, I'll be out in the woods and out on the ocean instead of watching hoops. Turkeys and cod fish don't care who won the game.

[devil84]

Wait...you are a grandparent with back problems and you’re training for a triathlon??? What the heck?

I've been a grandparent for a week, and the back problems are hopefully temporary and usually get better with the cross training in the three sports, and I've completed five sprint (short) distance triathlons to date (250 yard pool or 1/2 mile open water swim, 12 mile bike ride, 2-3 mile run). To be fair, I aim to simply finish the race as a victory lap for keeping myself healthy, as I'm slow enough to be in no danger of standing on the podium at the end of the race. If I keep exercising, my goal is to watch many, many years of Duke basketball with my grandson and any subsequent grandchildren.

My hero is the 79 year old woman who finishes 8-10 races each season. As she goes to the podium to claim her prize for her age group where she's likely (but not always!) the only one, she usually does her signature cartwheel. I wanna be her when I grow up!

Find that passion that gets you through the off season. :) Also, enjoy the journey, whether it's training for triathlons or a watching a basketball season. If the enjoyment of the entire endeavor is pinned on making the podium, most people will be severely disappointed. But if you enjoy the journey, it's extremely rewarding.

[DarkstarWahoo]

As someone who may have experienced some hoops heartbreak recently, let me ask you this as a thought experiment...if you could wipe your memory of this year, would you rather have Duke’s season (preseason #1, mildly disappointing regular season/ACCT, decent/good NCAA run) or UVA’s (exceeded expectations, historic regular season, ACCT title, unspeakable NCAA horror)?

[Ian]

As someone who may have experienced some hoops heartbreak recently, let me ask you this as a thought experiment...if you could wipe your memory of this year, would you rather have Duke’s season (preseason #1, mildly disappointing regular season/ACCT, decent/good NCAA run) or UVA’s (exceeded expectations, historic regular season, ACCT title, unspeakable NCAA horror)?

I would not trade with UVA for the sole reason that it's the first time ever 16 beat a 1 and goes down in the record books forever. I'll be reminded of it every March. If 16/1 has happened before, then I'd seriously consider the trade and probably pull the trigger.

[rsvman]

It's easier for me as I get older. Not just in basketball but in everything. I've learned that the best approach to almost any endeavour is to get really excited and happy when anything good happens, while at the same time not get too upset if things don't necessarily go perfectly.

It works for me.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

As someone who may have experienced some hoops heartbreak recently, let me ask you this as a thought experiment...if you could wipe your memory of this year, would you rather have Duke’s season (preseason #1, mildly disappointing regular season/ACCT, decent/good NCAA run) or UVA’s (exceeded expectations, historic regular season, ACCT title, unspeakable NCAA horror)?

I abstain

[Steven43]

I've been a grandparent for a week, and the back problems are hopefully temporary and usually get better with the cross training in the three sports, and I've completed five sprint (short) distance triathlons to date (250 yard pool or 1/2 mile open water swim, 12 mile bike ride, 2-3 mile run). To be fair, I aim to simply finish the race as a victory lap for keeping myself healthy, as I'm slow enough to be in no danger of standing on the podium at the end of the race. If I keep exercising, my goal is to watch many, many years of Duke basketball with my grandson and any subsequent grandchildren.

My hero is the 79 year old woman who finishes 8-10 races each season. As she goes to the podium to claim her prize for her age group where she's likely (but not always!) the only one, she usually does her signature cartwheel. I wanna be her when I grow up!

Find that passion that gets you through the off season. :) Also, enjoy the journey, whether it's training for triathlons or a watching a basketball season. If the enjoyment of the entire endeavor is pinned on making the podium, most people will be severely disappointed. But if you enjoy the journey, it's extremely rewarding.
Thank you for this.

[Newton_14]

I know for some of us, it's immediate and easy to move past a season ending or UNC loss. For others (me included), it can be difficult. I've found that as I've gotten older, the losses have gotten harder to take for some reason. Anyway, I'm wondering what are some techniques you all use to move on? Wallowing in the message board doesn't seem to be doing it for me :)
I messed up in my attempt to spork you and did not finish my thoughts, sorry. But what a very thoughtful post and thread! Thank you for starting this. I was in the dumps last night and all day today. The loss was especially painful for several reasons. Grayson's career ending in heart break fashion including an agonizing rim out on a shot that sends us to a FF ala Laettner twice. The realization about midway through the first half that we were a much better team. I went into the game very scared, thinking Kansas was just as good as us and the home court advantage would be tough to overcome. I quickly realized though, we were leading most of the first half even though Duval was the only guy playing at a high level for us. In my opinion they beat our "C" game. Our "B" game would have won comfortably by 7 to 10, and our "A" game would have blown them out. Because of that, it made it hurt 100 times worse for me personally.

Coping. Normally I have to get away for awhile. I avoid all sports sites for a few days except for DBR of course and I watch non-sports TV shows. If the weather is good I get off the computer and do things outside. Going to my High Schools boys baseball and girls softball games has also been great therapy for me the last few years. We have championship level programs in both sports and we have good crowds normally. I find that to be very helpful.

Tonight, my daughter and I used watching Zion in the McDonalds Dunk Contest as a coping mechanism and therapy. We both are bouncing back. (She is 13 and cried a lot after the game yesterday)

Hopefully you can find things that will help you cope after very hurtful losses like yesterday! Good luck!

[Wander]

As someone who may have experienced some hoops heartbreak recently, let me ask you this as a thought experiment...if you could wipe your memory of this year, would you rather have Duke’s season (preseason #1, mildly disappointing regular season/ACCT, decent/good NCAA run) or UVA’s (exceeded expectations, historic regular season, ACCT title, unspeakable NCAA horror)?

I'd rather have a losing season and miss the NCAA and NIT tournaments entirely than to have UVA's season this year. No offense to you guys.

[DarkstarWahoo]

I'd rather have a losing season and miss the NCAA and NIT tournaments entirely than to have UVA's season this year. No offense to you guys.

The only thing that makes me upset in your post is the use of the phrase “no offense” in a post about UVA. How dare you.

[Newton_14]

I'd rather have a losing season and miss the NCAA and NIT tournaments entirely than to have UVA's season this year. No offense to you guys.
I second that emotion.

And I am one of our resident closet UVA fan. In terms of fans of other teams coming here to post regularly they are far and away the best opposing fan/DBR members as individuals and a group. They set the bar for that. (Other opposing fans that post here could learn a lot from soaking that in and using it as a model for how one should conduct themselves here as opposing teams fans). I like Tony Bennett and I pull for UVA any time they are not playing us, or NC State. I try to pull for State but they make it difficult. Hopefully the new coach changes things.

But no, I would not trade our season for UVA's under any circumstance.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

For me it's exactly the opposite, the losses used to crush me, 1993, 1994, 1998, 1999, 2002, 2004, those losses took me weeks to get over. This one I got over after a good night sleep. The key for me is to not have such high expectations at the start and during the season. Tempered expectations make you treasure the wins more and emotionally ready to deal with the losses.

I’m still not over some of these. Thanks for bringing them up.

[moonpie23]

it's interesting. as i get older, the losses don't seem to kill me like they used to. I've tempered my expectations since 99....99 taught me a real lesson about fandom...


i think it's funny how much of our daily lives and "id" we place on the wings of a college basketball team's success and failure. It's not like we really have any skin in the game (unless you want to call $7500 seats "skin") these "kids", on the other hand, have EVERYTHING in the game...this is their life.


here's something else that's helped me....IMMENSELY....reigning in my hatred for UNC. I used to keep up with my "enemy" as closely as i did my my own team....I was on their boards, I followed their players on AND off the court. i knew their recruiting efforts, i knew their athletic department's moves, methods, and strategies...i was so wrapped up in hatred for them that my true life happiness was being affected.

after 2009, i made a conscious decision to make it better. I began to completely avoid all things UNC....i got off their boards, quit reading them, did not watch them on TV (unless they played duke) and switched them off when they came on sports news. Luckily for me, we all know what happened in 2010. That was my catalyst to continue dropping them from my life..I didn't watch them in 2016 OR 2017 when they made their runs...and you know what? it WAS better....every season, it got better and better to the point where i didn't even know who those players were by 2012..I'd heard their names, and i saw them when they played duke, but i wasn't wrapped in hate for them...i didn't rise and fall with their successes or failures...i back-slid a bit getting caught up in the scandal, but now, that's all washed away as well..

when my phone went off in '16 to tell me they'd lost on the last shot, i gently got up and danced a jig in front of the tv where i was watching a movie....in '17, i picked up the phone and texted some congratulations to some close friends that were unc fans...i didn't feel defeated.


when you eliminate that dark force of hate from your life, you can manage to look at the good things with a keener eye...duke is a great program, we have a wonderful "brotherhood" and i feel like my kids are doing well to root for Duke...

I was bummed last night, but i'll never be '99 bummed again...

[ipatent]

I'd rather have a losing season and miss the NCAA and NIT tournaments entirely than to have UVA's season this year. No offense to you guys.

I'd rather have UVA's season than miss the tournament. Disappointing end of the season, but they have an ACC championship banner.

[Duke76]

I'd rather have UVA's season than miss the tournament. Disappointing end of the season, but they have an ACC championship banner.

i think we will all be pulling for Sister Jean's team....that's pretty good therapy right there...

[msdukie]

As someone who may have experienced some hoops heartbreak recently, let me ask you this as a thought experiment...if you could wipe your memory of this year, would you rather have Duke’s season (preseason #1, mildly disappointing regular season/ACCT, decent/good NCAA run) or UVA’s (exceeded expectations, historic regular season, ACCT title, unspeakable NCAA horror)?

I'd rather have UVa's season. They hung a banner. And most importantly, they had a perfect season, going 2-0 against UNC.

[MCFinARL]

This one was hard, in a way, because we came so close--and really, we "should" have won in regulation (to the extent "should" is a meaningful concept in this context).

But I think this one will be easier to get over than some, mostly because the team reached the game it was supposed to according to its seed and almost won it. For me, much less painful than recent teams that have underperformed by checking out of the tournament early (especially teams that have lost in the first weekend).

Also, I guess, because this team, while fun to watch and full of intriguing players, has been inconsistent all year, even as it has improved overall. So I came into yesterday's game assuming that any outcome was possible. While Duke surely did not play its best game, they fought hard throughout and held their own against a #1 seed. On the spectrum of possible outcomes, this was far from the worst--and clearly the best possible of outcomes involving a loss.

[MCFinARL]

I'd rather have UVa's season. They hung a banner. And most importantly, they had a perfect season, going 2-0 against UNC.

Yes, but... given the amount of grief Duke fans have had to stomach from the 2-15 and 3-14 losses, I would never want to be Duke and have sustained a 1-16 loss. UVA, God bless them, has softened some of that embarrassment for Duke, and because they don't attract the kind of relentless schadenfreude that Duke does, their own embarrassment may be more manageable and less eternal than Duke's would have been in the same situation.

[ipatent]

Getting back to loss coping strategies.....I do my spring cleaning after Duke's last game every year. It helps with a sense of renewal.

[PackMan97]

I know for some of us, it's immediate and easy to move past a season ending or UNC loss. For others (me included), it can be difficult. I've found that as I've gotten older, the losses have gotten harder to take for some reason. Anyway, I'm wondering what are some techniques you all use to move on? Wallowing in the message board doesn't seem to be doing it for me :)

I have a few Duke and Carolina fans and one technique they use is to tell themselves, "It could be worse, I could be a State fan"...so there is always that :)

[kako]

I know for some of us, it's immediate and easy to move past a season ending or UNC loss. For others (me included), it can be difficult. I've found that as I've gotten older, the losses have gotten harder to take for some reason. Anyway, I'm wondering what are some techniques you all use to move on? Wallowing in the message board doesn't seem to be doing it for me :)

1. Stop reading the post-game thread. After a while, it's just a typical factory of sadness.
2. Don't think about next year too much. It's like rebounding after you break up with someone. Not so healthy. If you want to dabble in it, fine. Too much and then there's the tendency to compare back to players this year, which starts the cycle again.
3. Revel in the successes of Duke players in the pros. NBA is still active. Quinn Cook is a good story. He, Irving, Hood and others may win a championship.
4. Think about Duke things not basketball related. One possibility would be Duke lacrosse, currently ranked #5.
5. Do something that will give you a feeling of accomplishment. Like getting some exercise, cleaning the garage or even finding a new good restaurant. Duke hoops didn't accomplish what it wanted, but you did.

Best of luck. Losing does suck, but there is always next year.

[KandG]

I was in Dallas in 1986 when Coach K lost his first championship game to Louisville...I actually remember screaming in agony when Johnny Dawkins' shot to give Duke a potential lead missed badly in the closing minutes and the Cardinals sealed the game after. I was despondent for a full week, walking around as if someone died, it was pretty ridiculous actually. In 1993, I think I did nothing but watch sad movies for a weekend after Duke lost to Cal.

1999 hurt a lot too, as did 2004, but generally losses have been easier to handle since then. Some of it is getting older and getting a little more perspective on how absurd fandom can be. It's also helped me to follow teams in other sports to get a sense on how random sports outcomes can be, especially in single elimination situations, or in low scoring sports like soccer where a fluke goal can completely transform narratives.

The actual loss last night hasn't been that hard for me to handle beyond the usual first night of going over what could have been. One of the things that helped was watching Coach K's press conference the day before the Kansas game, when he talked about how he doesn't look backward or reflect on the records he's breaking or is close to breaking, instead emphasizing how he lives in the moment because he wants to experience milestones for the sake of experiencing the joy with his current team. It made me realize how lucky we are to be rooting for a team with such an accomplished coach with such a sense of perspective, who relates well to young men and develops them exceptionally. He's not perfect (because no one is), but for 38 years he's generated a surplus of special moments most fans would kill for.

(Also, and this puts me in a minority on this board, as an NBA fan I know I'm going to keep enjoying the legacy the best of our players will continue to establish as professionals. I love following Jabari, Brandon Ingram, Tyus, Justise, Quinn, Rodney, Jayson, Kyrie, even unlikely success stories like Lance Thomas. After years of living with the pernicious stereotype of Duke players as unathletic NBA role players or busts, I like seeing our guys form a significant part of the new generation of NBA pros).

I was very fond of this team, so don't get me wrong, this one hurts. I wanted Grayson to be a part of two super talented freshman groups going to the Final Four, and of course I really wanted K to get another Final Four and championship to make his legacy that much greater. But this team came within a shot of getting to the Final Four against a 1 seed on a hostile court, fighting back multiple times when it looked like they were going to be buried in the second half. They were a hypertalented high wire act all season that came this close to making it to San Antonio. I can live with that.

(Final note: it's also helped a lot to avoid social media and outlets where irrational Duke hate abounds. I can't imagine what it would be like to deal with this if I worked/lived in places like Chapel Hill or Charlotte)

[Wander]

I'd rather have UVA's season than miss the tournament. Disappointing end of the season, but they have an ACC championship banner.

In a few years, nobody outside of Charlottesville is going to remember or care who won the ACC in 2018. Everyone will remember for the rest of time that UVA lost to a 16 seed. And I say this as one of the people who sort of likes UVA.

[Matches]

it's interesting. as i get older, the losses don't seem to kill me like they used to. I've tempered my expectations since 99...99 taught me a real lesson about fandom...

I was bummed last night, but i'll never be '99 bummed again...

I was wrecked for a few days after the 99 game. Definitely the worst I've ever felt after a loss. It does get easier as I get older. Sunday was gut-wrenching, as my daughter can attest, and I was in a pretty crappy mood for about a half hour afterward. But then real life calls. It's cliche but really, it IS just a game. Most years end in defeat, even when we have good teams. Enjoy the ride, hope for a win, root for the team, and then go do something else. Easier said than done sometimes, but IMO that's the best coping mechanism.

[CDu]

In a few years, nobody outside of Charlottesville is going to remember or care who won the ACC in 2018. Everyone will remember for the rest of time that UVA lost to a 16 seed. And I say this as one of the people who sort of likes UVA.

Yep. Until we see another 1/16 upset (and it could be a LOOOOOOOONG time), they will continually be referenced as the only team that lost to a 16 seed. Nobody will care that they completely dominated the ACC, going 17-1 and winning the tournament. They will be remembered as the team that blew it against a 16 seed when nobody else had ever done so.

I feel for UVa fans. And I feel for those players and Tony Bennett. They don't deserve this. But it is a burden that they will wear forever - especially the seniors who won't get a chance to write another chapter in their college stories.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I was in Dallas in 1986 when Coach K lost his first championship game to Louisville...I actually remember screaming in agony when Johnny Dawkins' shot to give Duke a potential lead missed badly in the closing minutes and the Cardinals sealed the game after. I was despondent for a full week, walking around as if someone died, it was pretty ridiculous actually. )

That is still my most painful Duke loss...though 94,98,99, 04 all suck too. But the 86 team was K's first great team, and I sort of grew up with that team...I had the pleasure of meeting K in a hospitality suite at an ACC tournament - and of course back then he was not a big deal - but he was telling two or three of us standing around (Duke hotel hospitality rooms in those days were not crowded) about the recruiting class of Dawkins, Alarie, Henderson, etc. This was after another big time loss in the ACCT of course.

So it was fun to watch that team grow, and add Amaker, and then be the best team in the nation all of85-86. I believe they had winning streaks of 16 and 21 games in the same season. Such a shame a Louisville air ball landed in Pervis Ellison's hands for a key basket when Duke badly needed a stop.

But this one is right up there for me on the pain-o-meter - for reasons I can explain, and some I can't. Just sux!

[elvis14]

Interesting thread. When I was a kid I was passionate about my sports teams. As an adult I turned most of that passion to playing sports. As I get older and play less and coach more, I find that I miss the passion (even though it was immature) I had in my fandom. I'm not longer a baseball fan at all. My Redskins being irrelevant for decades at this point, I care but I'm not into them with any real emotion. I often think about how I miss having that kind of passion, even the immature fandom of a child. There's one exception, however, Duke Basketball.

I didn't attend Duke. I didn't grow up being a Duke fan. No one in my entire family tree had ever gotten a 4 year college degree before me. Nobody in my family cared about college sports of any kind in any way when I was growing up (except me). As a Navy brat, I was moved every 2 years and even after my dad retired we still moved when I was in High School (from Va. Beach to Greenwood SC). So I never had a bond with a 'home town' team. I was at Clemson for grad school from 89-91, started really following college basketball and Duke basketball then. As the years have passed my fandom for Duke has grown, not waned and that effects my perspective and objectivity.

So Sunday night's loss hurt. A lot. Still does. A lot. You can talk about perspective and my healthy family, stable job, etc. all you want and logically, I know I shouldn't be that bummed and upset and in the big picture everything that really matters is just fine. Logic loses sometimes. I'm so #$%^!ing bummed. I'm still pissed about that block/charge bad call. I can't even read the post game thread. Had lunch with my friends yesterday, not one of them brought they game up, not even the UNCheat fan. I HATE that all our players are leaving. I'm pretty apathetic about next years team because it's a collection of OAD players. I might be less bummed if I thought Kan. was a better team. I don't, they aren't, !$%$^ them.

As for coping. I just know I've felt this way many times before and that I know I can wait it out. Some never really go away (Boozer was fouled) and I suspect that Grayson's shot rolling out will be one of those. I think that knowing Coach K's run is nearing it's end and knowing we have relatively few chances left to win and few high quality multi-year players makes it that much tougher.

[Reddevil]

I've had to give myself lessons in perspective from time to time. Let's face it, losses hurt more when we are younger. I think life teaches us that we really only get a few shining moments, and they should be embraced and cherished. Most of it is a grind where we learn to appreciate what we have and try to laugh along the way. When we are younger, everything seems so serious. It's not though. Age teaches us that we have been played by experts that tap into our emotions while the important things go by right under our distracted noses.

Enough of that. What I really want to say is that there have been times when I think to myself, "Who won it last year?" or "Who won the Super Bowl" etc., and I have to think about it for a while or even Google it. Then I laugh at myself because it seemed like such a big deal at the time, but I have just proved to myself that it really isn't. This long cold winter is not helping matters though. Usually I am doing yardwork and forgetting all about the NCAA tourney because it is gorgeous and warm outside. Typing this on the last cold day of spring is a relief. I have wild raspberries in my back garden to get rid of. There, I feel better already. Enjoy your own journey. It's a short one really, and it's bittersweet!

[rsvman]

I know I've told this story on these pages before, but with all the talk about the 1999 team, I'd thought I'd throw this in one more time.

In 1999 I was living in Durham and working at Duke Medical Center, doing some teaching at the medical school, etc. As wrapped up in Duke basketball as one can possibly be, I'd guess. Watched every game. Thought that the team would definitely go undefeated after that early season loss, and I was sure they would win the NCAA tournament.

My eldest son turned 5 in November of 1998, early in the season. He was going to kindergarten. Because of that, he almost always had to go to bed before the games ended. Every single morning when I was helping him get ready for school, he would ask me what happened in the game. I would always say, "We lost." He would look at me and say, "No, we didn't!" And then I would admit that we had, in fact, won.

This ritual went on the morning after every game the entire season. "We lost," I would say, and act despondent, only to then break out into a big smile a few seconds later to tell him that we had actually triumphed one more time.

During the tournament, this continued, of course. The Tuesday morning after the title game he asked me again, "What happened?" I replied, "We lost." He said, "No, we didn't!" but then I had to say, "Yes, we did, son. We actually did lose this time." At that point I think he could see the sadness in my eyes and sense the feeling of loss in my heart. There was a couple of moments of silence. He grabbed my hand and we started to walk down the hallway. He the said, "It's OK, Daddy. It's only a game!"


Wow. You could've knocked me over with a feather. Out of the mouth of babes, as they say. So much wisdom in my 5-year-old that day.

[jv001]

I know I've told this story on these pages before, but with all the talk about the 1999 team, I'd thought I'd throw this in one more time.

In 1999 I was living in Durham and working at Duke Medical Center, doing some teaching at the medical school, etc. As wrapped up in Duke basketball as one can possibly be, I'd guess. Watched every game. Thought that the team would definitely go undefeated after that early season loss, and I was sure they would win the NCAA tournament.

My eldest son turned 5 in November of 1998, early in the season. He was going to kindergarten. Because of that, he almost always had to go to bed before the games ended. Every single morning when I was helping him get ready for school, he would ask me what happened in the game. I would always say, "We lost." He would look at me and say, "No, we didn't!" And then I would admit that we had, in fact, won.

This ritual went on the morning after every game the entire season. "We lost," I would say, and act despondent, only to then break out into a big smile a few seconds later to tell him that we had actually triumphed one more time.

During the tournament, this continued, of course. The Tuesday morning after the title game he asked me again, "What happened?" I replied, "We lost." He said, "No, we didn't!" but then I had to say, "Yes, we did, son. We actually did lose this time." At that point I think he could see the sadness in my eyes and sense the feeling of loss in my heart. There was a couple of moments of silence. He grabbed my hand and we started to walk down the hallway. He the said, "It's OK, Daddy. It's only a game!"


Wow. You could've knocked me over with a feather. Out of the mouth of babes, as they say. So much wisdom in my 5-year-old that day.

I needed that. Thanks. GoDuke!

[53n206]

"99 loss horrific.. Only consolation was I watched the game in Cabo.

[DarkstarWahoo]

I know I've told this story on these pages before, but with all the talk about the 1999 team, I'd thought I'd throw this in one more time.

In 1999 I was living in Durham and working at Duke Medical Center, doing some teaching at the medical school, etc. As wrapped up in Duke basketball as one can possibly be, I'd guess. Watched every game. Thought that the team would definitely go undefeated after that early season loss, and I was sure they would win the NCAA tournament.

My eldest son turned 5 in November of 1998, early in the season. He was going to kindergarten. Because of that, he almost always had to go to bed before the games ended. Every single morning when I was helping him get ready for school, he would ask me what happened in the game. I would always say, "We lost." He would look at me and say, "No, we didn't!" And then I would admit that we had, in fact, won.

This ritual went on the morning after every game the entire season. "We lost," I would say, and act despondent, only to then break out into a big smile a few seconds later to tell him that we had actually triumphed one more time.

During the tournament, this continued, of course. The Tuesday morning after the title game he asked me again, "What happened?" I replied, "We lost." He said, "No, we didn't!" but then I had to say, "Yes, we did, son. We actually did lose this time." At that point I think he could see the sadness in my eyes and sense the feeling of loss in my heart. There was a couple of moments of silence. He grabbed my hand and we started to walk down the hallway. He the said, "It's OK, Daddy. It's only a game!"


Wow. You could've knocked me over with a feather. Out of the mouth of babes, as they say. So much wisdom in my 5-year-old that day.

I'm a Vikings fan, and because of family commitments, wound up watching the Saints playoff game this year with about 15 of my in-laws. I'm a sour person when my teams are losing and get even more that way when I feel like I can't fully express myself in the company I'm in. (Some would look at that combination of traits and classify me with the technical term "jerk," and I don't know that they're wrong.)

At any rate, everybody knows about the miraculous touchdown pass the Vikings won on, and everybody also knows that things were looking pretty hopeless until then. My younger son saw me sitting and stewing, came up and put his hand on my back and said, "It's OK, Daddy. Sports are just something people do for fun." Of course, 10 seconds later we were rolling on the ground and screaming, but that was still the main thing that I took away from that night.

I also sent that out to all my sports-related text chains, both to show how awesome my son is and to make people laugh at my sour self. Fast-forward to the UMBC debacle, and my brother texts me "Sports are just something people do for fun?"

[JD for Three!]

‘99 was the lowest of the lows for me because I saw it in person. My mom lived about 20 minutes from the Tropicana Dome, so I got to see her and have a place to stay. It took a little of the sting out of the $1000 I paid to be two rows from the top of the stadium. Everyone I knew was aware that I had gone, and thankfully, all were kind and understanding.

I will say that the energy and events surrounding a final four are pretty awesome. I’ve been to a Super Bowl and World Series game as well, and the Final Four is the best in my opinion.

I have avoided ever going to another Duke Final Four even when there were a couple within easy driving distance for me (and Duke won). I think my main reason is that deep down inside I still feel like I did something to jinx them in ‘99. Wore the wrong socks, ate the wrong thing, crossed my legs the wrong way, something. So it’s all tv now, and my kids know that dad will be really happy with a win and a little sad with a loss. The sad part doesn’t last as long or hurt quite as much anymore. Kids help reset your priorities

[HereBeforeCoachK]

‘99 was the lowest of the lows for me because I saw it in person. My mom lived about 20 minutes from the Tropicana Dome,


OMG......not until just now did I realize that the 98 and 99 debacles were in the same d*mned building!!!

Oh, NEVER visiting Tampa........

[JD for Three!]

OMG...not until just now did I realize that the 98 and 99 debacles were in the same d*mned building!!!

Oh, NEVER visiting Tampa....

It’s actually St. Petersburg but the same general geographic area. Tampa would still be close enough to cast some bad mojo on us

[elvis14]

It’s actually St. Petersburg but the same general geographic area. Tampa would still be close enough to cast some bad mojo on us

I'll be in St. Petersburg next week...wonder if my wife will understand if I rearrange vacation to avoid bad mojo!?!

[DarkstarWahoo]

I'll be in St. Petersburg next week...wonder if my wife will understand if I rearrange vacation to avoid bad mojo!?!

Should only be a problem if her name is Anastasia.

[duke4ever19]

It's weird, but I got over this loss within a couple hours.

I watched every game this season and was anxious before most of them. I was definitely emotionally invested in this team, but somehow it didn't much bother me that they lost. Just a blip on the radar.

It's not always been like that. Just last year, it took me a good week to get over the loss to South Carolina. Perhaps it was because the South Carolina loss was unexpected (at least to me), while I knew the Kansas game could go either way?

[Bluedog]

I'll be honest, I intentionally avoided sports sites and this board since the game ended so as to not even remind myself. I finally have ventured back...I have tried to spend more time with family and other activities to keep my mind busy. This loss has seriously made me unhappy/uneasy the past couple days and realize how ridiculous that sounds from a fan and how I shouldn't let Duke basketball control my state of being. I'm almost re-assessing my fandom for mental health and trying to not be too invested in things. I'll say that I think I've taken this loss a lot harder than most losses because of HOW it happened. If we got blown out (which we did last year, in 2011, etc.), I don't take it nearly as badly because we were simply outplayed and didn't deserve to win. In this game, however, we had a shot that was in and out twice (literal centimeters away) at the end of regulation. Should have gone down. We're up three with the ball with 1:15 to go, should be a victory...We have the ball tied game taking the last shot, should be a victory...we're up 1 in OT with what should be a charge call and it goes the other way and Carter fouls out....If we had been down 3 with 1:15 to go, and they eek'ed out a win, wouldn't have been nearly as painful. Sports can be cruel. I can't imagine how hard the players are taking it.

[Billy Dat]

My usual consolation is to immediately force myself to watch the next NCAA game because the tournament sucks me back in every time. Most of my sadness comes from not having a game, in which I am seriously emotionally invested, to watch. Those of us haunting these forums are seriously into this team. We only get ~40 days out of 365 to watch them. It's tough to say goodbye to that every Spring.

I do recall during the final 5 minutes of regulation on Sunday, I was in my customary big game, winning time position, which is standing 5 feet in front of my television. My heart was beating fast and heavy in my chest, I was aware that my breathing needed to be modulated to help me calm down, and the words of George C. Scott's General Patton were repeating in my head, "I love it. God help me I do love it so."

[devil84]

For me, as I've gotten older, the losses are easier to take. As a manager on Coach K's first four teams, those first four years provided Coach K with 20% of his career losses at Duke. After I graduated and Duke became a powerhouse, I had to keep reminding myself that we could go three or more years without losing as many games as we lost in just one season back then. Be happy for the wins. But the losses still stung.

....

There's more to life than basketball. Coach would be the first to tell you that. It's ok to be down, even angry, after a loss and it's barely been 24 hours. Time heals wounds, but why does it move so slowly when it hurts? It's harder for those of us in the Triangle, with Tar Heel fans and Duke-haters so prevalent. Turn your attention to something else that makes you happy. Lose yourself in something wonderful: a good book, gardening, fitness endeavors, find a project to do with your family, volunteer for a worthy cause, and probably stop clicking on all those "DUKE LOST!!!!!" articles at every media outlet. Can't think of anything? See if there's something on the off-topic board that interests you (though careful with that Ymm...Beer thread!) if you want to still chat with the same board members, or start a thread with your passion.

We had an enjoyable journey this year with this young Duke team. It ended a bit too early for our taste. There's nothing we can do to change it, but we can savor the memories of watching this incredible bunch of young men. Remember the good stuff, and find that passion you've put aside to watch basketball games. I highly recommend holding an week old infant, particularly a first grandbaby, though I realize that newborn grandbabies aren't available to everyone at the end of a devastating loss. My grandson puts it all into perspective. There's something out there for everyone that will put it into perspective!

I forgot to credit a particular person for some of the ideas. Rewind back to the spring of '81. It was the end of my freshman year. I was a team manager for not only the men's varsity team, but also the men's junior varsity team. The basketball season had just ended with a disappointing 11-17 record. I was gathering my lunch in the Pits and ran into Jim Suddath, who just finished his senior season. I lamented the end of the season and wondered what I was going to do with my time. I mean, for nearly my entire college career, I got up early in the morning on East Campus, got myself to the gym for JV practice, went to class on both campuses, got back to the gym in the afternoon for varsity practice, scavenged dinner at the CI or DU since all the dining halls were closed, then studied (double major: history and design -- lots of reading and research in the library), and still had a social life. I was about to get a whole lot of free time, but I really enjoyed being a basketball manager! I had been a Duke basketball fan for years prior to coming to campus, and my dream that came true was ending for the season!

Well, Suds took my comment differently. He said something along the lines of, "That's sad. I hope you have more interests than just basketball. There's so much more to life! I'm looking forward to <a list of things that I've since lost to time>. Look at how beautiful it is outside! We can be outside now instead of in the gym!" Hmmm...I hadn't thought of it like that. He's right -- there's far more to life than basketball.

It took me a while to fully embrace that idea. Sure, we can be sad (even depressed) that the season didn't pan out like we wanted. I'm sure Suds' senior year wasn't at all what he expected, with a new coach, new defense, and ending with an 11-17 record. But he was able to move on and fill in the void with the things we put on hold, despite being extremely invested in the season. Too bad it took me, uh, let's not discuss how many years until I really figured it out. Suds is a really smart guy. I need to give him a lot of credit. Thank you, Jim!

[jv001]

I forgot to credit a particular person for some of the ideas. Rewind back to the spring of '81. It was the end of my freshman year. I was a team manager for not only the men's varsity team, but also the men's junior varsity team. The basketball season had just ended with a disappointing 11-17 record. I was gathering my lunch in the Pits and ran into Jim Suddath, who just finished his senior season. I lamented the end of the season and wondered what I was going to do with my time. I mean, for nearly my entire college career, I got up early in the morning on East Campus, got myself to the gym for JV practice, went to class on both campuses, got back to the gym in the afternoon for varsity practice, scavenged dinner at the CI or DU since all the dining halls were closed, then studied (double major: history and design -- lots of reading and research in the library), and still had a social life. I was about to get a whole lot of free time, but I really enjoyed being a basketball manager! I had been a Duke basketball fan for years prior to coming to campus, and my dream that came true was ending for the season!

Well, Suds took my comment differently. He said something along the lines of, "That's sad. I hope you have more interests than just basketball. There's so much more to life! I'm looking forward to <a list of things that I've since lost to time>. Look at how beautiful it is outside! We can be outside now instead of in the gym!" Hmmm...I hadn't thought of it like that. He's right -- there's far more to life than basketball.

It took me a while to fully embrace that idea. Sure, we can be sad (even depressed) that the season didn't pan out like we wanted. I'm sure Suds' senior year wasn't at all what he expected, with a new coach, new defense, and ending with an 11-17 record. But he was able to move on and fill in the void with the things we put on hold, despite being extremely invested in the season. Too bad it took me, uh, let's not discuss how many years until I really figured it out. Suds is a really smart guy. I need to give him a lot of credit. Thank you, Jim!

And if I'm not mistaken, Jim has his priorities in order at this time in life. I've had the pleasure of conversing with Jim on Facebook. A great guy who was a good basketball player in his own right. GoDuke!

[freshmanjs]

I thought of an idea, but need to bake it some more. Perhaps getting something really special and saving it to enjoy after the end of the season could take the sting out a bit. Question is what...

[mgtr]

This year did not hurt as much as others, since, as pointed out by someone on this board prior to the Elite Eight, that the most likely path to be faced by Duke would be Kansas, Villanova, Michigan. It seemed to me that we were almost bound to lose one of these games, so, in my mind, no championship. I hated the loss to Kansas, but it was tempered by the above reasoning. Or maybe I am just rationalizing.

[indy1duke]

Watching the games in person always beats watching them on a screen. You can yell and clap and release your emotions which sure beats throwing things at the tv. Following our loss in Omaha we went out and had a terrific meal at 801 Chop House. I found the loss more tolerable after an excellent Old Fashioned, Rappahannock oysters, chopped salad, lamb chops, hash browns with cheddar cheese, accompanied by a glass of Cabernet Sauvignon followed by a Grand Marnier soufflé.

[Reddevil]

I thought of an idea, but need to bake it some more. Perhaps getting something really special and saving it to enjoy after the end of the season could take the sting out a bit. Question is what...

Hmm, perhaps a new grill or smoker and forcing yourself not to use it until the season is over. Of course you could also go the indy1duke route just above. That sounds pretty soothing.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Hmm, perhaps a new grill or smoker and forcing yourself not to use it until the season is over. Of course you could also go the indy1duke route just above. That sounds pretty soothing.

Warm climes: New boat
Colder climes: New car

[freshmanjs]

Hmm, perhaps a new grill or smoker and forcing yourself not to use it until the season is over. Of course you could also go the indy1duke route just above. That sounds pretty soothing.

Good idea. My daughter say she is making a mystery box filled with cool items for next year. To be opened after the last game (hopefully in April)

[Highlander]

My perspective.

No matter who wins the Duke/UNC showdown, there will always be another Duke/UNC game. So while it's fun to win and stinks to lose, both feelings are always temporary. The hardest game for me to get over was the double OT UNC game in 1995. I remember people talking immediately afterwards about what a great game it was, and I was stuck on "It wasn't a great game; we lost!" Whenever it is rebroadcast I don't watch the last overtime. That entire season was a lesson in humility, and it taught me to never take success or winning for granted.

Things changed in 1999. I had just graduated the year before and lucked into some Final Four tickets. I was there as our magical season ended with a thud in the most important game of the season. I hung my head and walked down under the bleachers at Tropicana Field, and it hit me. My team had just finished the season 37-2. We went 19-0 for the first time in ACC conference history and won the ACC tournament. We made the Final Four, and were within a play or two of winning the National Championship. By any rational measurement, that's an incredibly successful season. Any rational College Basketball team would take that result over theirs in a heartbeat (except one of course). The season was so much fun to be a part of, and I got to go to a freaking Final Four?! While I'm disappointed we didn't win, if I chose to let that color my view of the entire season, it was clear my standards were completely unrealistic.

To me the journey is what makes a season fun. No matter whether you win or lose, there is always another game. Every team is different, and no matter how much fun you had watching one, at the end of the year the team always breaks up. I have learned to appreciate the ride you're on, and "Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened."

Last piece of advice is to under promise and over deliver. My buds consider me the "Debbie downer" of our watch parties because I'm pessimistic, but I consider myself more of a realist. My view - If you assume Duke will not make the S16 and they make the E8 or FF, you're ecstatic. If you always assume Duke will win the NC, then 90% of the time you're going to be disappointed. I personally prefer to be pleasantly surprised.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

My perspective.

No matter who wins the Duke/UNC showdown, there will always be another Duke/UNC game. So while it's fun to win and stinks to lose, both feelings are always temporary. The hardest game for me to get over was the double OT UNC game in 1995. I remember people talking immediately afterwards about what a great game it was, and I was stuck on "It wasn't a great game; we lost!" Whenever it is rebroadcast I don't watch the last overtime. That entire season was a lesson in humility, and it taught me to never take success or winning for granted.



All casual fans remember about that game is the Capel shot.