2018 McDonald's All American Game (Wed 3/28, 7pm ET, ESPN) Pre and In-Game

[Troublemaker]

Rosters (pdf) (https://www.mcdonaldsallamerican.com/content/dam/aag/2018%20BOYS%20AND%20GIRLS%20Rosters_Alphabetical_2 .27.18.pdf)

RJ Barrett and Zion Williamson will be on the East squad. (Duke recruit EJ Montgomery will also be on the East).

Tre Jones and Cameron Reddish will be on the West squad.

As the thread title states, the game itself will be this Wednesday on ESPN at 7pm ET.

[Troublemaker]

The 3-pt shooting and dunk competitions are TONIGHT at 8pm ET on ESPN2

List of participants (pdf)
(https://www.mcdonaldsallamerican.com/content/dam/aag/2018%20Powerade%20Jam%20Fest%20Participants.pdf)
Cam Reddish is in the 3-pt contest

Zion Williamson is in the dunk contest

And Tre Jones is competing with two teammates (non-Dukies) in something called the Legends and Stars shootout. (I believe they take turns making a layup, a free throw, a three, and a halfcourt heave).

[BD80]

The 3-pt shooting and dunk competitions are TONIGHT at 8pm ET on ESPN2

List of participants (pdf)
(https://www.mcdonaldsallamerican.com/content/dam/aag/2018%20Powerade%20Jam%20Fest%20Participants.pdf)
Cam Reddish is in the 3-pt contest

Zion Williamson is in the dunk contest

And Tre Jones is competing with two teammates (non-Dukies) in something called the Legends and Stars shootout. (I believe they take turns making a layup, a free throw, a three, and a halfcourt heave).

Is it fair to call it a "contest" if Zion is dunking?

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Rosters (pdf) (https://www.mcdonaldsallamerican.com/content/dam/aag/2018%20BOYS%20AND%20GIRLS%20Rosters_Alphabetical_2 .27.18.pdf)

RJ Barrett and Zion Williamson will be on the East squad. (Duke recruit EJ Montgomery will also be on the East).

Tre Jones and Cameron Reddish will be on the West squad.

As the thread title states, the game itself will be this Wednesday on ESPN at 7pm ET.

Maybe my geography is rusty but when did Philly move west of Toronto?

[JasonEvans]

I'm going to be attending some practices and media events for the McD game this week... here's a pic of Reddish with the reverse layup from one of the practices.

8230

-Jason "thanks to McDonald's for the pic and for the access... more info in coming days" Evans

[CDu]

Maybe my geography is rusty but when did Philly move west of Toronto?

For competitive balance reasons, they've long since discarded the true East/West splits for this thing. They still generally keep the Western guys on the West team, but there are usually more Eastern players on the teams than Western guys, so they split them up a bit more to balance out the top-end guys.

[Owen Meany]

Evan Daniels tweet says Williamson has lost 20 pounds. Perhaps this will make him a little more explosive:).

[CDu]

Evan Daniels tweet says Williamson has lost 20 pounds. Perhaps this will make him a little more explosive:).

Can't hurt. He was undoubtedly carrying 20-30 lbs or more of "not good" weight. 6'6", 240-250 is probably better than 6'6", 270. He's still plenty strong to bang inside, but that lighter weight will give him even more explosiveness.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Can't hurt. He was undoubtedly carrying 20-30 lbs or more of "not good" weight. 6'6", 240-250 is probably better than 6'6", 270. He's still plenty strong to bang inside, but that lighter weight will give him even more explosiveness.

Which is crazy to think about, because Zion at 270 was incredibly explosive.

Zion will be a nightmare to contain, but he's the biggest enigma for me as far as next year is concerned. I have no idea about his defensive capabilities, his decision-making/shot selection, and his mid-range/3-pt shot.

I know what we're getting with Reddish and Barrett and I think I know what we're getting from Jones. But with Zion, it could be really, really good or really, really frustrating.

[UrinalCake]

Zion will be a nightmare to contain, but he's the biggest enigma for me as far as next year is concerned.

Agree. Not only does he have usual size and athleticism, but he plays in an absolutely terrible high school league. I can't get excited watching youtube videos of him dunking over guys who are literally under 6 feet tall. That tells me nothing about his ability to play at the college level. Can he play the 5, or would he be better at the 4? And if he's a 4, can he defend on the perimeter?

Looking forward to seeing how he does on the summer All-Star circuit. Still not a great measure since they're basically pickup games of one-on-one, but at least the level of competition will be better.

[CDu]

Which is crazy to think about, because Zion at 270 was incredibly explosive.

Yes. He's an absolute freak of nature. In that regard, Charles Barkley is the closest comp I can think of. But in terms of playing above the rim, he might actually be closer to LeBron (he's only an inch shorter than LeBron, whereas Chuck was 2-3 inches shorter than Zion). It's really hard to describe how explosive he is, and his combination of size and explosiveness is basically unprecedented.

But...


Zion will be a nightmare to contain, but he's the biggest enigma for me as far as next year is concerned. I have no idea about his defensive capabilities, his decision-making/shot selection, and his mid-range/3-pt shot.

I think it is safe to assume he isn't going to be much of a shooter at all. He gets pretty much all of his points inside of 10 feet, and his shot doesn't look very good anyway. He's a capable open-court ballhandler, and not awful with the ball in the halfcourt. I'd love to watch him post people up and drag bigs out and take them baseline. But I don't expect him to be much of a passer, and I don't expect him to do a ton of ballhandling next year.

He's a definite unknown on defense (his HS team played mostly zone, and a very passive zone at that), and he's always been a ball-dominant guy. That said, he's also never played with as much talent as he will have around him next year. And with his nose for the glass, I'd salivate at the possibility of him hunting down offensive rebounds and putbacks while teams are focused on defending Reddish and Barrett.

He's sort of, if you squint, a little like Marvin Bagley. Obviously not similar in physical stature or specific athletic traits. But in terms of being more of a dominant rebounder/scorer than a pure basketball skill player, that's kind of what I envision from him. Whereas Bagley played over players and used his height and second-jump skills, I think Williamson will rely on his obscene strength/power and leaping ability to produce. Both are good handlers for a big, but not guys you want dribbling a ton in traffic. On the same token, by virtue of being such dominant offensive presences, there are going to be real concerns about if/when he learns the amount of effort needed on defense. And of course whether he has the quickness to defend smaller players on switches, which will have big implications on the defense.


I know what we're getting with Reddish and Barrett and I think I know what we're getting from Jones. But with Zion, it could be really, really good or really, really frustrating.

I think there are real questions about all 4 freshmen. We've already discussed Williamson, but Barrett and Reddish have their questions too.

Barrett: will he shoot well enough to fully maximize his talent, or will teams just pack it in defensively and let him take and miss long jumpers? His jumpshot is very much a work in progress at this stage. I have the fewest concerns about defense with him of any of the four. He's uber-intense, and his size and athleticism suggest he should do well there. And I have no doubt he can score in traffic and in transition. I suspect he'll draw a lot of fouls too. But he's a bit loose with the ball and not a consistent shooter. So whether he's just really good or transcendent will depend a lot on how well he can shoot it.

I do think he'll thrive off-ball too with Jones and with a talented wing like Reddish next to him.

Reddish: Reminds me in some ways of Grant Hill and Jayson Tatum. Long and athletic and with a variety of skills. He can do most everything on the court, the key for him is doing the right thing consistently. He's not a great shooter yet, and too easily settles for long jumpers. And he doesn't always seem to play in the flow of the game, and can be a ballstopper. Again, he's got all the tools. It's just a matter of figuring out how to use them to their fullest. And it isn't like he plays poorly now - just not always as efficiently as he could given his talent.

Jones: If the game was as simple as knowing what to do, Jones would be one of the best. He's got a great feel for the game. But, not unlike his brother, there are questions about the athleticism. He also has questions about his shooting, which is a concern given his lack of elite athleticism.

[proelitedota]

Evan Daniels tweet says Williamson has lost 20 pounds. Perhaps this will make him a little more explosive:).

Imo his optimal playing weight in college is 230-240.

Best case scenario is if he grows an inch before he arrives on campus, and another inch before he leaves school.

6'8 240 we might start him at the 5!

[CDu]

Imo his optimal playing weight in college is 230-240.

Best case scenario is if he grows an inch before he arrives on campus, and another inch before he leaves school.

6'8 240 we might start him at the 5!

I think he's more like 6'6" or 6'7", but I agree that 230-240 feels like a much better weight for him to play at.

I think he'll play a fair amount at the 5 next year. I hope that he'll be the starter at the 4 though, and that is because I hope Bolden returns and starts at the 5.

[DukeWarhead]

In the past, I was probably far more interested in the McD game than I should have been. I'd watch and get all over-excited about the incoming freshmen. The past few years have really tampered expectations for players that might only be at Duke for a year. That's probably a good thing. I don't even tune in anymore. It's an AAU game. I suppose that's a very pessimistic way to look at it, but the ending of the last two seasons and seeing the impact of inexperienced teams has me feeling pessimistic. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad recruiting has been going great - it guarantees we won't suffer a 'bad' season. But I suppose I'm buying all talk about never having a cohesive, experienced team again.

[CDu]

In the past, I was probably far more interested in the McD game than I should have been. I'd watch and get all over-excited about the incoming freshmen. The past few years have really tampered expectations for players that might only be at Duke for a year. That's probably a good thing. I don't even tune in anymore. It's an AAU game. I suppose that's a very pessimistic way to look at it, but the ending of the last two seasons and seeing the impact of inexperienced teams has me feeling pessimistic. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad recruiting has been going great - it guarantees we won't suffer a 'bad' season. But I suppose I'm buying all talk about never having a cohesive, experienced team again.

Yeah, I think it can still be mildly entertaining to watch. And you can learn a LITTLE bit about the guys, at least in terms of their physical presence and offensive skills.

But I've definitely stopped getting overly excited about the play of our players in the game. It's not even an AAU quality of play. At least those guys have familiarity playing together. It's a collection of guys playing iso ball, with a few alley-oops mixed in. The only defense played is guys selling out for steal attempts or blocked shots. And about 70% of the game is in transition. It's just not really organized, disciplined basketball. Just 10 guys each running around trying to throw haymakers each play.

It really caters to the ball-dominant, uber-skilled and/or uber-athletic guards. Last year, Collin Sexton dominated the event. He was a highlight reel all night. And he was certainly a good player this year, but I would not say he was even among the top 5 freshmen in college basketball, and that's without one of the three best freshmen playing (Porter got hurt early). Conversely, Carter was a very quiet player in that game, but he was definitely one of the top freshmen in college this year. But Carter's game doesn't really translate to all-star games, whereas Sexton's does.

[dukelifer]

Yeah, I think it can still be mildly entertaining to watch. And you can learn a LITTLE bit about the guys, at least in terms of their physical presence and offensive skills.

But I've definitely stopped getting overly excited about the play of our players in the game. It's not even an AAU quality of play. At least those guys have familiarity playing together. It's a collection of guys playing iso ball, with a few alley-oops mixed in. The only defense played is guys selling out for steal attempts or blocked shots. And about 70% of the game is in transition. It's just not really organized, disciplined basketball. Just 10 guys each running around trying to throw haymakers each play.

It really caters to the ball-dominant, uber-skilled and/or uber-athletic guards. Last year, Collin Sexton dominated the event. He was a highlight reel all night. And he was certainly a good player this year, but I would not say he was even among the top 5 freshmen in college basketball, and that's without one of the three best freshmen playing (Porter got hurt early). Conversely, Carter was a very quiet player in that game, but he was definitely one of the top freshmen in college this year. But Carter's game doesn't really translate to all-star games, whereas Sexton's does.
The Nike game is a better indicator of skills in my opinion.

[Troublemaker]

But I suppose I'm buying all talk about never having a cohesive, experienced team again.

You think Coach K is going to live and/or coach forever?

As I've written before, OAD detractors should take comfort in knowing that it's impossible for recruiting to keep at this level much longer. Plus, the NBA might modify the rule at some point. OAD is such a temporary little era in Duke basketball history; either take it for what it is and try to enjoy it, or just come back when it's over (which, again, won't be much longer).


Yeah, I think it can still be mildly entertaining to watch. And you can learn a LITTLE bit about the guys, at least in terms of their physical presence and offensive skills.

But I've definitely stopped getting overly excited about the play of our players in the game. It's not even an AAU quality of play. At least those guys have familiarity playing together. It's a collection of guys playing iso ball, with a few alley-oops mixed in. The only defense played is guys selling out for steal attempts or blocked shots. And about 70% of the game is in transition. It's just not really organized, disciplined basketball. Just 10 guys each running around trying to throw haymakers each play.

It really caters to the ball-dominant, uber-skilled and/or uber-athletic guards. Last year, Collin Sexton dominated the event. He was a highlight reel all night. And he was certainly a good player this year, but I would not say he was even among the top 5 freshmen in college basketball, and that's without one of the three best freshmen playing (Porter got hurt early). Conversely, Carter was a very quiet player in that game, but he was definitely one of the top freshmen in college this year. But Carter's game doesn't really translate to all-star games, whereas Sexton's does.

Right, for many fans, this game is their first opportunity to get a look at these recruits, so it IS exciting from that perspective, but I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from the game. Interestingly, though, the 4 Duke commits/signees should all excel in the game because they're all ball-handlers. As you allude to, it's really the big men and off-ball shooters that sometimes (there are exceptions) have trouble shining in this setting.

As for Sexton, if he's not a top-5 freshman, he's pretty darn close. I have lots of love for his game.

[CDu]

As for Sexton, if he's not a top-5 freshman, he's pretty darn close. I have lots of love for his game.

Bagley, Ayton, Carter, Young, Bamba, Jackson Jr, Knox. I'd put Sexton about 8th. Definitely not a bad player, but behind those other guys in my opinion. But definitely more of a showcase player than a win/loss player. I don't mean that negatively about him as a person. Just that he is a PG gunner who doesn't pass well or make his teammates better. He's a really talented kid, but is still very much learning how to play the game.

[Ian]

You think Coach K is going to live and/or coach forever?

As I've written before, OAD detractors should take comfort in knowing that it's impossible for recruiting to keep at this level much longer. Plus, the NBA might modify the rule at some point. OAD is such a temporary little era in Duke basketball history; either take it for what it is and try to enjoy it, or just come back when it's over (which, again, won't be much longer).


Why are you so set on shutting down all discussions on this subject. I find it interesting that the best you can come up with is that "it won't last forever so why bother talking about it". If we applied that to other subject we would literally not talk about anything on this board. Want to talk about Javins' jumpshot needs improving? Why bother, in two years he's outta here anyway. Don't like how Coach K coached at the end of the game? It's okay he's retiring soon and you won't have to worry about his coaching moves, so shut up about it.

People want to talk about it because it's here NOW and it affects the team NOW. If it's a good thing, we should try to keep it going as long as possible, even post K. And if it's not, we should try something different it even if he's here.

[Troublemaker]

Why are you so set on shutting down all discussions on this subject.

lol, if I could "shut down discussion," I would. But I obviously can't since the OAD debate will continue to rage on.

I'm an OAD detractor detractor, and I deserve my say as much as an OAD detractor.


I find it interesting that the best you can come up with is that

No, actually, I've written extensively about OAD over the years and brought tremendous arguments. I'll probably rehash over the offseason at some point but don't feel like it now. I bring lots to the table on many, many subjects on DBR, not just OAD. I'm not a one-trick pony repetitively ranting about one subject.

[kAzE]

https://youtu.be/zEvQNLUkCcw

As the title of the video suggests, Zion looks like he's in pretty good shape. No doubt Coach K is in his ear about conditioning.

Cam Reddish's 3 point shot looked pretty wet, and it looks like RJ and Zion have already developed some great chemistry. The road to the 2019 championship starts here, guys!!

Immanuel Quickley (UK recruit) looked really smooth as a decision maker. As much as I hate Calipari, you gotta admit, he's got a great eye for talent.

[JasonEvans]

Rise up, Zion... and don't hit your head on the rim.

8232

[JasonEvans]

https://youtu.be/zEvQNLUkCcw

As the title of the video suggests, Zion looks like he's in pretty good shape. No doubt Coach K is in his ear about conditioning.

Cam Reddish's 3 point shot looked pretty wet, and it looks like RJ and Zion have already developed some great chemistry. The road to the 2019 championship starts here, guys!!

Immanuel Quickley (UK recruit) looked really smooth as a decision maker. As much as I hate Calipari, you gotta admit, he's got a great eye for talent.

If you are wondering who is who in the practice videos and pictures...

Tre 0
Cam 8
RJ 6
Zion 12
EJ 3

[Troublemaker]

Jason Jordan‏Verified account @JayJayUSATODAY (https://twitter.com/JayJayUSATODAY) 24h24 hours ago (https://twitter.com/JayJayUSATODAY/status/978062919672967168)
Here with No. 1 player @RjBarrett6 (https://twitter.com/RjBarrett6) at the McDonald’s All American Game (@McDAAG (https://twitter.com/McDAAG)) practice and he’s got a message for dejected #Duke (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Duke?src=hash) fans.

https://twitter.com/i/videos/978062919672967168

[duke4ever19]

Jason Jordan‏Verified account @JayJayUSATODAY (https://twitter.com/JayJayUSATODAY) 24h24 hours ago (https://twitter.com/JayJayUSATODAY/status/978062919672967168)
Here with No. 1 player @RjBarrett6 (https://twitter.com/RjBarrett6) at the McDonald’s All American Game (@McDAAG (https://twitter.com/McDAAG)) practice and he’s got a message for dejected #Duke (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Duke?src=hash) fans.

https://twitter.com/i/videos/978062919672967168

Looks like the video cut off just before he added, "Oh, and none of us are going to the NBA till we win the whole thing. I don't care if it takes 4 years." ;)

[juise]

Looks like the video cut off just before he added, "Oh, and none of us are going to the NBA till we win the whole thing. I don't care if it takes 4 years." ;)

And even if the video wasn’t cut off, it was clearly implied through tone and facial gestures.

[Troublemaker]

Eric Bossi (Rivals) with a report (https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/mcdonald-s-aa-game-monday-takeaways) from today's practice.

[OZ]

Yes. He's an absolute freak of nature. In that regard, Charles Barkley is the closest comp I can think of. But in terms of playing above the rim, he might actually be closer to LeBron (he's only an inch shorter than LeBron, whereas Chuck was 2-3 inches shorter than Zion). It's really hard to describe how explosive he is, and his combination of size and explosiveness is basically unprecedented.

But...



I think it is safe to assume he isn't going to be much of a shooter at all. He gets pretty much all of his points inside of 10 feet, and his shot doesn't look very good anyway. He's a capable open-court ballhandler, and not awful with the ball in the halfcourt. I'd love to watch him post people up and drag bigs out and take them baseline. But I don't expect him to be much of a passer, and I don't expect him to do a ton of ballhandling next year.

He's a definite unknown on defense (his HS team played mostly zone, and a very passive zone at that), and he's always been a ball-dominant guy. That said, he's also never played with as much talent as he will have around him next year. And with his nose for the glass, I'd salivate at the possibility of him hunting down offensive rebounds and putbacks while teams are focused on defending Reddish and Barrett.

He's sort of, if you squint, a little like Marvin Bagley. Obviously not similar in physical stature or specific athletic traits. But in terms of being more of a dominant rebounder/scorer than a pure basketball skill player, that's kind of what I envision from him. Whereas Bagley played over players and used his height and second-jump skills, I think Williamson will rely on his obscene strength/power and leaping ability to produce. Both are good handlers for a big, but not guys you want dribbling a ton in traffic. On the same token, by virtue of being such dominant offensive presences, there are going to be real concerns about if/when he learns the amount of effort needed on defense. And of course whether he has the quickness to defend smaller players on switches, which will have big implications on the defense.



I think there are real questions about all 4 freshmen. We've already discussed Williamson, but Barrett and Reddish have their questions too.

Barrett: will he shoot well enough to fully maximize his talent, or will teams just pack it in defensively and let him take and miss long jumpers? His jumpshot is very much a work in progress at this stage. I have the fewest concerns about defense with him of any of the four. He's uber-intense, and his size and athleticism suggest he should do well there. And I have no doubt he can score in traffic and in transition. I suspect he'll draw a lot of fouls too. But he's a bit loose with the ball and not a consistent shooter. So whether he's just really good or transcendent will depend a lot on how well he can shoot it.

I do think he'll thrive off-ball too with Jones and with a talented wing like Reddish next to him.

Reddish: Reminds me in some ways of Grant Hill and Jayson Tatum. Long and athletic and with a variety of skills. He can do most everything on the court, the key for him is doing the right thing consistently. He's not a great shooter yet, and too easily settles for long jumpers. And he doesn't always seem to play in the flow of the game, and can be a ballstopper. Again, he's got all the tools. It's just a matter of figuring out how to use them to their fullest. And it isn't like he plays poorly now - just not always as efficiently as he could given his talent.

Jones: If the game was as simple as knowing what to do, Jones would be one of the best. He's got a great feel for the game. But, not unlike his brother, there are questions about the athleticism. He also has questions about his shooting, which is a concern given his lack of elite athleticism.



Well, that's not very encouraging.
BTW, just watching three-pt contest ...Reddish tied for first with 17. Not bad.

[OZ]

He can definitely dunk! Won the slam dunk contest... really no one there comparable.

[CDu]

Well, that's not very encouraging.
BTW, just watching three-pt contest ...Reddish tied for first with 17. Not bad.

To be clear, I was just highlighting the questions. Barrett, Reddish, and Williamson are still stud recruits who deserve their top-3 recruit status. They will contend for 1st/2nd Team All-ACC honors as well as national recognition. But just like Bagley and Carter, they still have their blemishes. And just like Duval and Trent, Jones has his concerns too. It is a rare freshman who is flawless coming in. Someone like Anthony Davis is about all that comes immediately to mind. Guys like Durant and Oden perhaps work too. But again, it is really, really rare.

[dukelifer]

Yes. He's an absolute freak of nature. In that regard, Charles Barkley is the closest comp I can think of. But in terms of playing above the rim, he might actually be closer to LeBron (he's only an inch shorter than LeBron, whereas Chuck was 2-3 inches shorter than Zion). It's really hard to describe how explosive he is, and his combination of size and explosiveness is basically unprecedented.

But...



I think it is safe to assume he isn't going to be much of a shooter at all. He gets pretty much all of his points inside of 10 feet, and his shot doesn't look very good anyway. He's a capable open-court ballhandler, and not awful with the ball in the halfcourt. I'd love to watch him post people up and drag bigs out and take them baseline. But I don't expect him to be much of a passer, and I don't expect him to do a ton of ballhandling next year.

He's a definite unknown on defense (his HS team played mostly zone, and a very passive zone at that), and he's always been a ball-dominant guy. That said, he's also never played with as much talent as he will have around him next year. And with his nose for the glass, I'd salivate at the possibility of him hunting down offensive rebounds and putbacks while teams are focused on defending Reddish and Barrett.

He's sort of, if you squint, a little like Marvin Bagley. Obviously not similar in physical stature or specific athletic traits. But in terms of being more of a dominant rebounder/scorer than a pure basketball skill player, that's kind of what I envision from him. Whereas Bagley played over players and used his height and second-jump skills, I think Williamson will rely on his obscene strength/power and leaping ability to produce. Both are good handlers for a big, but not guys you want dribbling a ton in traffic. On the same token, by virtue of being such dominant offensive presences, there are going to be real concerns about if/when he learns the amount of effort needed on defense. And of course whether he has the quickness to defend smaller players on switches, which will have big implications on the defense.



I think there are real questions about all 4 freshmen. We've already discussed Williamson, but Barrett and Reddish have their questions too.

Barrett: will he shoot well enough to fully maximize his talent, or will teams just pack it in defensively and let him take and miss long jumpers? His jumpshot is very much a work in progress at this stage. I have the fewest concerns about defense with him of any of the four. He's uber-intense, and his size and athleticism suggest he should do well there. And I have no doubt he can score in traffic and in transition. I suspect he'll draw a lot of fouls too. But he's a bit loose with the ball and not a consistent shooter. So whether he's just really good or transcendent will depend a lot on how well he can shoot it.

I do think he'll thrive off-ball too with Jones and with a talented wing like Reddish next to him.

Reddish: Reminds me in some ways of Grant Hill and Jayson Tatum. Long and athletic and with a variety of skills. He can do most everything on the court, the key for him is doing the right thing consistently. He's not a great shooter yet, and too easily settles for long jumpers. And he doesn't always seem to play in the flow of the game, and can be a ballstopper. Again, he's got all the tools. It's just a matter of figuring out how to use them to their fullest. And it isn't like he plays poorly now - just not always as efficiently as he could given his talent.

Jones: If the game was as simple as knowing what to do, Jones would be one of the best. He's got a great feel for the game. But, not unlike his brother, there are questions about the athleticism. He also has questions about his shooting, which is a concern given his lack of elite athleticism.

Adding one of these guys to an established team would give an explosive option- a bit like Corey Maggette did in his one year at Duke. Having three of them on the same team will be a big challenge for the coaching staff. It will be interesting to watch their development. I agree that it will all come down to shooting. If they can shoot well enough- then they become hard to defend. Tatum was that kind of player. Hard to believe that these guys will match Tatum-particularly from the line- but time will tell.

[CDu]

Adding one of these guys to an established team would give an explosive option- a bit like Corey Maggette did in his one year at Duke. Having three of them on the same team will be a big challenge for the coaching staff. It will be interesting to watch their development. I agree that it will all come down to shooting. If they can shoot well enough- then they become hard to defend. Tatum was that kind of player. Hard to believe that these guys will match Tatum-particularly from the line- but time will tell.

Again (not singling you out as you wrote this almost the exact same time as me), the top 3 guys are every bit as good as Tatum was. They are all three going to be studs next year. It is just a question of how studly, and how well they mesh, and how well they defend. But I have little concern that we will be anything other than a top-5 offense. These guys are just that good offensively. No, they aren’t knock-down shooters. But they can all create their own shot, and all three are elite scorers. And I think Barrett and Williamson will be elite threats as off-ball scorers, which will play nicely with Tre Jones’ passing and court awareness. I think that Williamson, Bolden, DeLaurier, and Barrett will also collect a fair amount of offrnsive rebounds with their size and/or athleticism.

The offense will not struggle for points. It will again come down to defense.

[Owen Meany]

If you are wondering who is who in the practice videos and pictures...

Tre 0
Cam 8
RJ 6
Zion 12
EJ 3

I believe 0 is Coby "Crabman" White for UNC. Evidently, Tre sat out today.

[CDu]

If you are wondering who is who in the practice videos and pictures...

Tre 0
Cam 8
RJ 6
Zion 12
EJ 3

Pretty sure the “0” in that video is Cody white, not Tre Jones.

[proelitedota]

Again (not singling you out as you wrote this almost the exact same time as me), the top 3 guys are every bit as good as Tatum was. They are all three going to be studs next year. It is just a question of how studly, and how well they mesh, and how well they defend. But I have little concern that we will be anything other than a top-5 offense. These guys are just that good offensively. No, they aren’t knock-down shooters. But they can all create their own shot, and all three are elite scorers. And I think Barrett and Williamson will be elite threats as off-ball scorers, which will play nicely with Tre Jones’ passing and court awareness. I think that Williamson, Bolden, DeLaurier, and Barrett will also collect a fair amount of offrnsive rebounds with their size and/or athleticism.

The offense will not struggle for points. It will again come down to defense.

Our late 3 season losses have been the result of poor offense. We feel to around 20 in the nation in adjusted offense since switching to zone.

[dukelion]

Cam the co-champ of the three point contest.

[kAzE]

Cam the co-champ of the three point contest.

I really wonder why Cam didn't do the dunk contest. Based on his tape, he would have at least given Zion a little competition.

[SoCalDukeFan]

In the past, I was probably far more interested in the McD game than I should have been. I'd watch and get all over-excited about the incoming freshmen. The past few years have really tampered expectations for players that might only be at Duke for a year. That's probably a good thing. I don't even tune in anymore. It's an AAU game. I suppose that's a very pessimistic way to look at it, but the ending of the last two seasons and seeing the impact of inexperienced teams has me feeling pessimistic. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad recruiting has been going great - it guarantees we won't suffer a 'bad' season. But I suppose I'm buying all talk about never having a cohesive, experienced team again.

Agree Completely

[kAzE]

The Nike game is a better indicator of skills in my opinion.

Yep, the Nike Hoop Summit is the "real" All-Star game. Especially now that the game is worldwide (McD's game is only kids who play high school ball in the US), and there is a little something on the line in terms of pride in the contest between the US and the World. That's the All-Star game to watch.

But hey, at least this McDonald's game has Zion, and he's always entertaining.

[dukelifer]

Again (not singling you out as you wrote this almost the exact same time as me), the top 3 guys are every bit as good as Tatum was. They are all three going to be studs next year. It is just a question of how studly, and how well they mesh, and how well they defend. But I have little concern that we will be anything other than a top-5 offense. These guys are just that good offensively. No, they aren’t knock-down shooters. But they can all create their own shot, and all three are elite scorers. And I think Barrett and Williamson will be elite threats as off-ball scorers, which will play nicely with Tre Jones’ passing and court awareness. I think that Williamson, Bolden, DeLaurier, and Barrett will also collect a fair amount of offrnsive rebounds with their size and/or athleticism.

The offense will not struggle for points. It will again come down to defense.

I am more concerned with how they mesh. That said- K prides himself on a positionless offense so in that sense Duke will have many options. It will be a longer - less experienced version of 2016-2017 without the rediculous 3 point shooting of Kennard. If they can score it from deep- they will be fine but I would not be surprised to see them struggle against certain ACC defenses as a unit simply due to inexperience. Again time will tell.

[Turk]

The dunk contest and the 3 point contest are so 1980's.

Here are a couple things on my bucket list:

1. I want to see a Top 10 recruit highly touted as being "the best defensive player in the country". "They put Player X on any AAU team's best guy, and that guy just disappears." I want to see a bunch of youtube clips of that.

2. McD's should have a 3-on-3, or even better, a 2-on-2 contest, televised prime time. Let's see who has an idea of how to play a pick-n-roll or play help defense against players that are similarly skilled. I want to see that too.

That's not too much to ask, is it?

[DavidBenAkiva]

Zion stole the show at the Jam Fest last night, which was hard to do considering the hype that came with his participation in the dunk contest. And I think that is masking his true abilities to a certain extent.

There are many that question his abilities as a basketball player. It's reasonable to analyze and overanalyze these guys. They are going to be thrust into a spotlight from the start. But I'd like to note that Zion is considered one of the very best in his class for a reason. He's very, very good.

His highlight reals are plenty and shows many South Carolina high school kids playing against him almost in awe of his speed, size, and explosiveness. When he has played against his peers, the best players in the class, he has also impressed. In October, Zion and other top players participated in a USA Basketball minicamp. Williamson was just coming back from a knee or foot injury (he was always destined to go to Duke!). And yet, he clearly showed that he was among the very best in the country. A ton of recruiting journalists wrote about his performance at the camp. Here's what Jerry Meyer wrote for 247Sports:

(Source: https://247sports.com/college/duke/Bolt/Despite-measurements-Zion-Williamson-shined-at-USA-Basketball-108720050)
At 6-6 (6-5 barefoot), 272-pounds, Williamson was the same force of nature that he has always been since I first scouted him a year and a half ago. His athletic explosiveness in unparalleled on the prep circuit, and beyond the highlight dunking, results in productive play.

Skill wise, Williamson is a proficient finisher, a nifty ball handler on the move and an adept passer. The main question about his game is the consistency of his outside shot and his willingness to dig deep and defend on the perimeter without relying on a recover block.

One of the things that really impresses me about Zion is the way he handles the ball. He can really dribble, especially for a guy his size. If he plays the stretch-4 position, I expect to see him take his man off the dribble. He keeps it low to the court, like really low. A point guard should look at his tape to see how he keeps it that low. And he passes the ball. I wonder about the risk/reward of this style of play. With the passing and vision of Tre Jones, R.J. Barrett, and Cam Reddish, he will find that passing to an open cutter may often lead to an open dunk for himself. I hope that's the case.

To really unlock his best attributes, Duke is going to have to figure out how to force live ball turnovers. Duke has not been so good at forcing turnovers the past few years. Forcing a TO on 1 in 5 possessions was a regular part of Duke's defense as recently as 2012-13. Since then, we've taken a step back in that area. With the three wings, I hope we can use that length to get more open looks and transition points.

Turnovers per possession (rank out of 351 teams)
2017-18: 16.8% (#251)
2016-17: 17.0% (#252)
2015-16: 16.8% (#229)
2014-15: 18.5% (#177)
2013-14: 18.3% (#153)
2012-13: 20.3% (#143)
2011-12: 18.1% (#243)
2010-11: 20.4% (#96)
2009-10: 20.5% (#108)

[whereinthehellami]

...Since then, we've taken a step back in that area. With the three wings, I hope we can use that length to get more open looks and transition points.

I'm excited about the increase in speed and agility. We had the length this past year but Bagley and Carter were mismatches away from the hoop and were easily taken advantage of. I was excited with their length on paper coming in and then reality hit. The game has changed so much that it is difficult for big guys to not be taken advantage of on defense. I liked the zone and it helped Bagley and Carter out but they were still really slow on close outs.

I've watched some games of the freshman and the idea of them playing man to man next year scares me. They all have the size and athleticism but the effort, commitment, and communication that it will take for it to be successful seems daunting. I would love for Coach to embrace the zone from the beginning next year and then add some variations to it as the season goes on based on the different match-ups.

[Troublemaker]

Bull City, we in!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZTCImbWAAAMLsU.jpg

[tbyers11]

Bull City, we in!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZTCImbWAAAMLsU.jpg

Great picture.

Interesting to me that Zion looks at least an inch taller than Reddish or Barrett. Maybe more as he is leaning to the left while the others are standing straight.

We need some cinder blocks in the picture to officially judge their height, but 247 lists Zion at 6'6" and has both Reddish and Barrett at 6'7".

[proelitedota]

Great picture.

Interesting to me that Zion looks at least an inch taller than Reddish or Barrett. Maybe more as he is leaning to the left while the others are standing straight.

We need some cinder blocks in the picture to officially judge their height, but 247 lists Zion at 6'6" and has both Reddish and Barrett at 6'7".

On the MdAA roster Zion is listed at 6'7 250. He might grow another inch or two before his NBA career gets rowing. Let's hope that happens before he reaches Duke.

[CDu]

The biggest thing I take from that picture (besides the fact that it is awesome that we have the best 3 players in the class AND another top-10 guy) is just how massive Williamson is. Look at the size of his arms relative to the other three. He's just a huge, huge guy.

[UrinalCake]

No doubt, he looks like a linebacker. I remember hearing a story about how nobody every drew a charge on Charles Barkley. One time Kevin Johnson tried to draw one while Barkley was coming down the lane on a fast break. As he stepped in front Barkley just looked at him, smiled, lowered his shoulder and slammed him back knocking him into the upright. He then walked away saying "you can have your charge."

I get the feeling nobody will be drawing charges on Zion next year.

[CDu]

No doubt, he looks like a linebacker. I remember hearing a story about how nobody every drew a charge on Charles Barkley. One time Kevin Johnson tried to draw one while Barkley was coming down the lane on a fast break. As he stepped in front Barkley just looked at him, smiled, lowered his shoulder and slammed him back knocking him into the upright. He then walked away saying "you can have your charge."

I get the feeling nobody will be drawing charges on Zion next year.

Yeah, kudos to anyone who does. That dude is a truck.

[kAzE]

https://youtu.be/oHkck7Hyd-A

It defies all logic, but Zion can really move his feet. It may be just some highlight tape, but the guy just moves incredibly well for a someone that size.

Also, anybody still trying to label him as "only a dunker" or "just" a super athletic guy with no skill should just give it up. He certainly isn't a great jump shooter yet, but his skill and feel for the game is not that far behind his ridiculous physical gifts. There are certainly athletic guys who aren't very skilled at basketball, but Zion is not one of them.

[duke4ever19]

Yeah, kudos to anyone who does. That dude is a truck.

I pity the poor saps who attempt to take a charge against Zion Williamson. Kind of like LeBron on a fast break. You could take a charge, but you also might get carted off the court, so most NBA players just get out of the way.

[ncexnyc]

I pity the poor saps who attempt to take a charge against Zion Williamson. Kind of like LeBron on a fast break. You could take a charge, but you also might get carted off the court, so most NBA players just get out of the way.

Of course with our luck, the refs would probably stop the game and run to the monitor and invent some call.

[jv001]

I pity the poor saps who attempt to take a charge against Zion Williamson. Kind of like LeBron on a fast break. You could take a charge, but you also might get carted off the court, so most NBA players just get out of the way.

And give the opposing player a good old Karl Malone kick or knee to the gonads. GoDuke!

[MrPoon]

Great picture.

Interesting to me that Zion looks at least an inch taller than Reddish or Barrett. Maybe more as he is leaning to the left while the others are standing straight.

We need some cinder blocks in the picture to officially judge their height, but 247 lists Zion at 6'6" and has both Reddish and Barrett at 6'7".

Zion is so big and strong that he distorts light and GIVES the apperence that he is taller.

[flyingdutchdevil]

The biggest thing I take from that picture (besides the fact that it is awesome that we have the best 3 players in the class AND another top-10 guy) is just how massive Williamson is. Look at the size of his arms relative to the other three. He's just a huge, huge guy.

I'm a little worried for practice next year. Zion will either eat AOC as a snack, murder Jones if he tries to take a charge, or destroy Cameron's ego with a poster dunk. Hell, it will all likely happen in the first practice.

Zion's body and physical abilities are 10x more interesting than his ability to play ball.

[proelitedota]

Zion is so big and strong that he distorts light and GIVES the apperence that he is taller.

Can we start the Zion Norris / Chuck Williamson thread?

[arnie]

Of course with our luck, the refs would probably stop the game and run to the monitor and invent some call.

Particularly if it’s against ACC poster child Luke Maye.

[proelitedota]

Particularly if it’s against ACC poster child Luke Maye.

I think UNC will have more trouble guarding Zion than they did Bagley.

[UrinalCake]

Day 2 Practice Footage: Zion and RJ go 1 on 1https://youtu.be/oHkck7Hyd-A


Both players had trouble scoring on each other. Should I be excited that they are both good individual defenders? Or disappointed that their offense is not as developed as I'd hoped?

[RepoMan]

I know they do not have the same game, but the last time I recall having a player that just seemed physically dominant, a man among boys, was Elton Brand. That was fun.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Zion is so big and strong that he distorts light and GIVES the apperence that he is taller.

Zion challenges the very laws of physics on so many levels........

[HereBeforeCoachK]

On the MdAA roster Zion is listed at 6'7 250. He might grow another inch or two before his NBA career gets rowing. Let's hope that happens before he reaches Duke.

Zion, kind of standing to the side, is also a half step closer to the camera, it appears, and that could skew the appearance of relative height.

[Troublemaker]

Eric Bossi (Rivals) with a report (https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/mcdonald-s-aa-game-zion-gets-going-more-takeaways) from Tuesday. He loves what he sees from Zion.

[killerleft]

:cool:
Great picture.

Interesting to me that Zion looks at least an inch taller than Reddish or Barrett. Maybe more as he is leaning to the left while the others are standing straight.

We need some cinder blocks in the picture to officially judge their height, but 247 lists Zion at 6'6" and has both Reddish and Barrett at 6'7".

Everybody knows that when making the Bull City gesture, the closer the forearms are to each other, the person looks a bit shorter. Geez!:o

[kAzE]

E.J. Montgomery seems to be a textbook stretch 4 as a 6'10" big man who is known for his jump shot and face up game. I really hope we get him, he would really help open up the floor and also allow us to use some interesting lineups. All of our slashers, but Zion especially will benefit with EJ on the floor as a guy who can draw an opposing big man out of the paint.

Zion 1 on 1 with anybody in college basketball next year is going to be very entertaining.

[CDu]

E.J. Montgomery seems to be a textbook stretch 4 as a 6'10" big man who is known for his jump shot and face up game. I really hope we get him, he would really help open up the floor and also allow us to use some interesting lineups. All of our slashers, but Zion especially will benefit with EJ on the floor as a guy who can draw an opposing big man out of the paint.

Zion 1 on 1 with anybody in college basketball next year is going to be very entertaining.

I really like the options we have with Williamson. If he gets matched up on a big, he can drag them out a little away from the basket and drive by them. If he gets matched up on a smaller guy, he can post them up. Heck, I think he'd be a tough guard for even big guys in the post. Nobody is moving him off his spot, and he can outquick bigs on the blocks with his athleticism and ballhandling. He's going to be an absolute matchup nightmare.

Getting a stretch 4 type like Montgomery would help, although I don't think he needs it. Also, it would be hard for me to imagine Montgomery playing major minutes over a junior-year Bolden anyway. It isn't like Montgomery is a sure-fire one-and-done type, and Bolden was a top-15 guy in a better class. Not that Montgomery wouldn't get minutes, just that he'd probably be in the 10-15 mpg range like Bolden/DeLaurier were this year unless Bolden leaves. And from a team continuity standpoint, I really hope Bolden doesn't leave.

[kAzE]

I really like the options we have with Williamson. If he gets matched up on a big, he can drag them out a little away from the basket and drive by them. If he gets matched up on a smaller guy, he can post them up. Heck, I think he'd be a tough guard for even big guys in the post. Nobody is moving him off his spot, and he can outquick bigs on the blocks with his athleticism and ballhandling. He's going to be an absolute matchup nightmare.

Getting a stretch 4 type like Montgomery would help, although I don't think he needs it. Also, it would be hard for me to imagine Montgomery playing major minutes over a junior-year Bolden anyway. It isn't like Montgomery is a sure-fire one-and-done type, and Bolden was a top-15 guy in a better class. Not that Montgomery wouldn't get minutes, just that he'd probably be in the 10-15 mpg range like Bolden/DeLaurier were this year unless Bolden leaves. And from a team continuity standpoint, I really hope Bolden doesn't leave.

That's kind of the other reason I hope we get him. He'd be a 6th or 7th man on next year's team, but a big time player and likely starter as a sophomore. You can never have enough stretch big men.

Even if he does play for only 10-12 minutes a game, he still opens up lineup options that currently don't exist with this team. For example, I think spacing will be a problem with Zion and Marques both on the floor. However, EJ and Marques would be fine. I like the versatility he would give to this team.

Plus, it would be a fab 5 that completely overshadows Michigan's Fab 5 (we'd have 5 of the top 12), and I want Jalen Rose to be sad about that.

[UrinalCake]

I worry about Zion and Bolden in the post together. I think Bolden's man will come over to double-team Zion, and both defenders can clog the paint. We saw the same problem this past season, and that's with Carter shooting almost 50% from three and Bagley around 35%. I think Zion will have to play as a stretch 4 in that situation. Fortunately it sounds like the plan is for him to play all over the court, as K told him he would use him like Lebron in the Olympics. Hopefully he's developing his shot, some earlier scouting reports indicated it was not good.

[CDu]

That's kind of the other reason I hope we get him. He'd be a 6th or 7th man on next year's team, but a big time player and likely starter as a sophomore. You can never have enough stretch big men.

Oh I definitely hope we get him.

[JasonEvans]

Eric Bossi (Rivals) with a report (https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/mcdonald-s-aa-game-zion-gets-going-more-takeaways) from Tuesday. He loves what he sees from Zion.

So, you link the Rivals guy's reports, but not mine (https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2018/3/28/17171346/dbr-at-mcdonalds-practice-duke-basketball)? ;)

[UrinalCake]

So, you link the Rivals guy's reports, but not mine (https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2018/3/28/17171346/dbr-at-mcdonalds-practice-duke-basketball)? ;)

Thanks for the report; love hearing about Zion and Tre's defensive intensity. Also was great to hear how close the four players are. One of the things that really set apart that 2015 team compared to other freshmen-heavy rosters was that Tyus and Oak knew each other so well even before getting to Duke, and Winslow had played with them a fair amount too. So it was like they had a jump start on building that chemistry.

I'm still stinging from the loss, but the positive reports coming out of these practices is helping me start to get a bit excited about next season.

[Troublemaker]

So, you link the Rivals guy's reports, but not mine (https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2018/3/28/17171346/dbr-at-mcdonalds-practice-duke-basketball)? ;)

Haha, sorry my friend, I just assume people check the front page and don't want to duplicate (although I know you're kidding).

Great writeup, and I especially love the coverage of our guys' interactions. Sounds like they're already pretty close.

[whereinthehellami]

I really like hearing how tight the guys are, reminds me a lot of the 2015 class. At Least as far as Jones/Okafor/Winslow. They had played a lot of ball of US Under-19 ball together. I know Trent and Carter were close in last year's class but I don't know about the rest of the guys. And I don't think Bagley played in any of the Under-19's. Bagley wasn't a MCD all star either as he reclassified. Duval and Bagley were late signees IIRC, at least compared to this class.

All 4 of the guys are slated for the MCD game, Jordan Brand , and Hoop Summit (Barrett on the World team). Jones just seems like a leader, keeping everyone together and Williamson has such a huge personality, seems to love playing. I really hope for DeLaurier to be the 5th starter as i think he would have the best ego/leadership/compatibility with the 4 freshmen.

[Troublemaker]

I like how, because all 4 of our guys are starters, I can just ignore / fast-forward through the 4-minute segments where they don't play.

Anyway, both RJ and Cam had steals in the first segment of the game. Cam hit a smooth-looking three off a ball screen when the opposing big dropped.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Zion is gonna be fun to watch next year.

He’s like a 21st century Larry Johnson.

[AtlDuke72]

I like how, because all 4 of our guys are starters, I can just ignore / fast-forward through the 4-minute segments where they don't play.


The game is almost unwatchable. The game is sort of in the background while the announcers just babble about stuff most of us have heard. Is it too much to ask for them to occasionally mention what is going on in the game?

[CameronBlue]

So, you link the Rivals guy's reports, but not mine (https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2018/3/28/17171346/dbr-at-mcdonalds-practice-duke-basketball)? ;)

No by-line? Sheesh, I've seen papers that gave the obit writer a by-line.

[AtlDuke72]

The game is almost unwatchable. The game is sort of in the background while the announcers just babble about stuff most of us have heard. Is it too much to ask for them to occasionally mention what is going on in the game?

Is Corey Alexander being paid by the word?

[UrinalCake]

Yeah some actual play by play would be nice, since most of us don’t recognize the players by their faces/bodies.

Tre just made a steal and insane half court bounce pass, but the recipient dribbled out rather than finishing the play. Would have been a nice highlight.

[Troublemaker]

Yeah some actual play by play would be nice, since most of us don’t recognize the players by their faces/bodies.

Tre just made a steal and insane half court bounce pass, but the recipient dribbled out rather than finishing the play. Would have been a nice highlight.

That was after stealing the ball from RJ, too. Tre earlier had two nice bounce pass assists for backdoor layups. He's played really well.

All of our guys have looked good to varying degrees.

[ncexnyc]

Our recruits are looking good so far. Really like what I'm seeing from Tre. Zion is a true freak of nature. Nobody that big should have the body control he does.

Don't look now, but the Cheats have managed to put a nice recruiting class together. With the pieces they already have in place the reports of their demise have been greatly exaggerated.

[UrinalCake]

Is RJ playing point for his team?

[Troublemaker]

Is RJ playing point for his team?

Darius Garland is but he's been going off-ball a lot to let RJ create.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Our recruits are looking good so far. Really like what I'm seeing from Tre. Zion is a true freak of nature. Nobody that big should have the body control he does.

Don't look now, but the Cheats have managed to put a nice recruiting class together. With the pieces they already have in place the reports of their demise have been greatly exaggerated.

I'll love it when Nassir Little and Coby White play behind Cam Johnson and Seventh Woods next season because Roy prefers experience and playing a deep bench.

Seriously, though, both of those players look like they could be great. Good for them.

[jwillfan]

Jay Will lurves him some RJ Barrett

[jwillfan]

Coby White has impressive hair

[drummerdevil]

Coby White has impressive hair

I’m going to use it as the thing I focus my hate through for the next four years

[jwillfan]

I predict he cuts it before stepping on the court for the Cheats

[kcduke75]

Or live stats?

I wish our announcers knew there was a game going on. Dead horse?

[jwillfan]

Dead horse unfortunately. More interested in talking about each player than the game.

Agree with poster above about Little. He looks legit. Fortunately for us so do all 4 of out recruits

[DavidBenAkiva]

Halftime Stats

R.J. Barrett led all scorers with 14 points on 5-6 field goals, an assist, and a rebound. He shot 1-2 from 3 and was 3-3 from the free throw line.
Zion Williamson had 8 points on 4-8 shooting to go along with 5 rebounds and 2 stelas.
Cameron Reddish had 6 points on 3-6 shooting but missed all 3 of his attempts from 3 but also had 3 assists, 3 steals, and 2 rebounds.
Tre Jones had 5 points on 2-3 shooting, 4 assists, 2 steals, and a rebound.

All four played 12 minutes in the first half.

[dukelifer]

Our recruits are looking good so far. Really like what I'm seeing from Tre. Zion is a true freak of nature. Nobody that big should have the body control he does.

Don't look now, but the Cheats have managed to put a nice recruiting class together. With the pieces they already have in place the reports of their demise have been greatly exaggerated.

Carolina replaced their two seniors with more athletic versions that should plug right in. Unless somebody leaves- they will be a formidable team.

[WHOneedsSOX]

EJ Montgomery gets up veeery easily. Very thin though. Don't think he could play a lot of 5 for Duke if he chooses them.

[DavidBenAkiva]

A couple of impressive plays from the Duke players.

Tre Jones with the floater off the glass.
Reddish has a FAST first step and explodes to the rim. My goodness.
Cameron Reddish isn't forcing anything, but you can tell how quick and comfortable he is with the ball in his hands. He looks like a step faster than some recent wings like Jayson Tatum with the ball in his hands. He's a little more like Brandon Ingram in his style of play, a slasher to the rim and a pull-up jumper.
Zion had an open lane to the hoop and went to jam it home with his off hand but it went off the rim. I do love that he will finish with either hand.

[WHOneedsSOX]

I’m going to use it as the thing I focus my hate through for the next four years
It already annoyed me before I knew who he was and where he was going.

[Troublemaker]

RJ was just dominating Cam in that last segment. It was like Canada vs USA U19 all over again.


Carolina replaced their two seniors with more athletic versions that should plug right in. Unless somebody leaves- they will be a formidable team.

Question: if Duke had to replace Berry and Pinson with two freshmen, would you be so optimistic about it?

[Troublemaker]

East is more talented but West might win because its coach is taking the game more seriously. He kind of snuck in some extra minutes with his starters when it was supposed to be a backups vs backups segment.

[DavidBenAkiva]

There have been many guys that have looked either terrible or fantastic in this game and were very different when they showed up on campus.

I am excited about I've seen from the 4 Duke guys so far and can't wait to see them in the next few competitions.

[kcduke75]

It's over

[dukelifer]

Uh oh- Zion hurt

[moonpie23]

JUST turned the TV on and caught him exiting holding his wrist......


crap...

[DavidBenAkiva]

Awwww man Zion hurt his hand. There was a fun couple of sequences where Zion got into a one-on-one situation with Nassir Little. Little got the better of him in both situations, poking the ball away from him. In the second sequence, Williamson appeared to have dislocated a finger in his right hand.

[Furniture]

Uh oh- Zion hurt

just his pride.

[jwillfan]

Fouled (no call) by Little, finger or hand. Didn't look that bad.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Hand/wrist is bad but thank goodness it wasn't a leg injury.

[Furniture]

I thought the halftime interview was funny. When asked about dunking at Duke he says he probably wouldn’t be dunking but rather just make sure that the ball goes in. When Jwill said you’ll probably get booed by the crazies he said something to the effect of that he rather be booed and stay on the court than be taken off by K!

[ncexnyc]

Little took the best Zion had, but didn't fair so well against RJ.

[dukelifer]

RJ was just dominating Cam in that last segment. It was like Canada vs USA U19 all over again.



Question: if Duke had to replace Berry and Pinson with two freshmen, would you be so optimistic about it?

UNC has a pretty good and experienced core coming back. That is their advantage until I see Duke play as a team.

[dukelifer]

UNC has a pretty good and experienced core coming back. That is their advantage until I see Duke play as a team.

And Little is a one and done

[weezie]

Fouled (no call) by Little, finger or hand...

And the beat goes on. Yep, another hole issue.

[jwillfan]

RJ looking great. Compares to Tatum

Cam just hit a nice 3.

[dukelifer]

RJ looking great. Compares to Tatum

Cam just hit a nice 3.

Compares to Kobe

[DavidBenAkiva]

RJ looking great. Compares to Tatum

Cam just hit a nice 3.

Man, Barrett has gotten hit on the arms each of the last 3-4 trips down the court.

But Cameron Reddish gets the flush on the other side of the court.

Kind of exciting here at the end.

[dukelifer]

Little is going to be a pain.

[ncexnyc]

And Little is a one and done

Now that would certainly blow the narrative we always hear from Cheat fans.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Little is going to be a pain.

Justin Jackson looked like he was going to be a real problem but then did nothing his freshman year. We'll see what these guys look like when they suit up next season.

[dukelifer]

Reddish is impressive. I hope Zion did not mess up that thumb. He did not come back which is concerning

[MChambers]

And Little is a one and done
Ol’ Roy will take care of that!

[CDu]

Justin Jackson looked like he was going to be a real problem but then did nothing his freshman year. We'll see what these guys look like when they suit up next season.

Same with McAdoo. The McD’s game should not be taken as a meaningful data point.

[dukelifer]

Justin Jackson looked like he was going to be a real problem but then did nothing his freshman year. We'll see what these guys look like when they suit up next season.

Maybe- this guy is an Uber athlete. Jackson looked to be a shooter. But yes- we shall see. Little is right behind the Duke guys.

[fraggler]

Reddish is impressive. I hope Zion did not mess up that thumb. He did not come back which is concerning

Luckily, it was his non-shooting hand, so it shouldn't set him too far back from that stand point.

[dukelifer]

Same with McAdoo. The McD’s game should not be taken as a meaningful data point.

Perhaps- but the baseline fade away and three were not in McAdoo’s skill set in that game or ever.

[fraggler]

Nassir looked legit. Very good athlete, aggressive, and was hitting his shots.

[Troublemaker]

UNC has a pretty good and experienced core coming back. That is their advantage until I see Duke play as a team.

I mean, you hinted we could suffer like the 1982 season. I understand the reverse jinx, believe me. But one's whole life shouldn't be a reverse jinx :-). You're allowed to break character in the offseason.


And Little is a one and done

Pssh. Fat chance of that. We all know Little will be eligible for AARP before leaving UNC. At Duke, he'd be OAD.

[dukelifer]

Jones has a nice feel for the game.

[dukelifer]

I mean, you hinted we could suffer like the 1982 season. I understand the reverse jinx, believe me. But one's whole life shouldn't be a reverse jinx :-). You're allowed to break character in the offseason.



Pssh. Fat chance of that. We all know Little will be eligible for AARP before leaving UNC. At Duke, he'd be OAD.

Hinted perhaps - but don’t really think that. Also not the off season until next Tuesday ;)

[ncexnyc]

Now I could have my Cheats confused, but wasn't JMM the Cheat who had a nice McD's game solely based on hanging back and getting a handful of easy baskets? Clearly, Little is a very good player and would be a solid get for any school.

As far as not being able to get anything from watching one of these games, well that's completely bogus. Does Kyrie Irving ring a bell? Watching him split multiple defenders off the bounce told me all I needed to know about that young man, especially when the other hotshot PG in that game Brandon Knight failed numerous times to do the same thing Kyrie did.

Jones and Winslow also showed what they could do during these games. Jones always made the right pass and displayed on court leadership, while Winslow was shown to be a fantastic defender as in crunch time he was placed on the oppositions PG and kept them from getting any kind of a shot.

[ipatent]

Anyone have a link to a boxscore? RJ looked really good.

[Troublemaker]

Courtesy of Andrew Slater:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZax5jrVQAEYnfY.jpg

[UrinalCake]

Now I could have my Cheats confused, but wasn't JMM the Cheat who had a nice McD's game solely based on hanging back and getting a handful of easy baskets?

No, that was Justin Jackson. He was named co-MVP of the game basically for cherry picking and getting some open dunks. Prepared him well for his future undeserved ACC POY award over Luke.



As far as not being able to get anything from watching one of these games, well that's completely bogus. Does Kyrie Irving ring a bell? ...Jones and Winslow also showed what they could do during these games.

Bottom line, these games only mean something when it's our guys doing well. When our guys do poorly, or when UNC guys do well, it's just a meaningless exhibition :)

[proelitedota]

The only reason that Nassier Little got 28 points obviously because of Tre and Cam's assists. :rolleyes:

[dukelifer]

Luckily, it was his non-shooting hand, so it shouldn't set him too far back from that stand point.

Ahh I thought he is right handed.

[dukelion]

I guess it's up to me to be the guy here to remind everybody that this game means nothing....tune in to the Hoops Summit to make at least the most general of assessments on our guys.

[kAzE]

9 assists, 1 turnover . . . ain't too shabby for a 6-8 point guard.

[thedukelamere]

Zion left the locker room before the team was even back in it after the game, and will see a specialist before heading home to SC. Hopefully just a precautionary thing but doesn’t sound the greatest.

In other words...

It’s over.

[Troublemaker]

Zion left the locker room before the team was even back in it after the game, and will see a specialist before heading home to SC. Hopefully just a precautionary thing but doesn’t sound the greatest.

In other words...

It’s over.

I mean, the thumb was definitely bent the wrong way in a very nasty-looking injury. I don't think we'll be seeing him in any of the remaining All-Star games. If indeed it's a thumb dislocation, it appears to take about 6 weeks for the ligaments to heal (https://www.fairview.org/patient-education/116734EN), and he'll need to be in a cast or splint. Hopefully it's nothing more serious than that.

[heyman25]

No medical report yet for Zion Williamson.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22948374/duke-bound-zion-williamson-suffers-thumb-injury-second-half-mcdonald-all-american-game

[sbpollo]

From video it could be ulnar collateral ligament injury. "Gamekeeper Thumb". Could require surgery. Common skiing and football injury esp. quarterbacks.

[Troublemaker]

From video it could be ulnar collateral ligament injury. "Gamekeeper Thumb". Could require surgery. Common skiing and football injury esp. quarterbacks.

Thanks, if surgery is required, it seems it could push recovery time out to 3-4 months, based on google.

[dukelifer]

Thanks, if surgery is required, it seems it could push recovery time out to 3-4 months, based on google.

Yes it looked like it will need surgery. He should be able to stay in cardiovascular shape- so that is good.

[Newton_14]

Thanks, if surgery is required, it seems it could push recovery time out to 3-4 months, based on google.

He’s fine

[jamos14]

He’s fine

Great news.

Any idea when that will be released officially?

[Duke76]

Courtesy of Andrew Slater:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZax5jrVQAEYnfY.jpg

Jones had 8 assists, Cam 9 assists, Little 1 assist, I'll take our guys

[MChambers]

He’s fine

He'll just grow a new one.

[Avvocato]

Here's an update from USA Today with quotes from Zion's family (that he's fine and only seeing a specialist to be thorough).

http://usatodayhss.com/2018/zion-williamsons-parents-say-hes-fine-after-injury-in-the-mcdonalds-all-american-game

[Newton_14]

Great news.

Any idea when that will be released officially?

Looks like that has now happened. The below link has comments from his mom. He dislocated it and they popped it back in place in the locker room. Soreness and swelling, but that's expected.


Here's an update from USA Today with quotes from Zion's family (that he's fine and only seeing a specialist to be thorough).

http://usatodayhss.com/2018/zion-williamsons-parents-say-hes-fine-after-injury-in-the-mcdonalds-all-american-game

[flyingdutchdevil]

Looks like that has now happened. The below link has comments from his mom. He dislocated it and they popped it back in place in the locker room. Soreness and swelling, but that's expected.

And the legend of Zion continues.

[Truth&Justise]

This probably recaptures some other comments already in this thread, but I thought I'd share my observations from attending the game last night. I'm sure I missed some stuff, but here's what stood out to me:

Cameron Reddish
He's a lanky and very smooth wing. Very comfortable with the ball in his hands. Didn't see a ton of him scoring because he was in foul trouble (!), but he still managed 9 assists and 5 steals. His 3pt shot is pretty stiff, but he won the 3pt contest. Went 1-4 in the game from three. Has an unusual game, definitely need to see more to understand its nuance.

Tre Jones
Looked very in control on the court during a sloppy game. Kept the ball moving quickly - it never got stuck with him. Had some very nice dribble moves to get into the paint a set up other guys. Had 8 assists, despite Reddish also handling the ball a lot on his team. Didn't score much. 3pt shot remains unknown.

Zion Williamson
Don't know what to make of Zion yet. He's big -- much more filled out than most of the other guys. He looked phenomenal on the fast break, he's quicker than he looks and gets off the floor very quickly. I'm still not sure what his best attributes are. He's more than just a dunker, but I'm not sure his other skills are refined enough so far to be reliable. He'll be a nightmare for any big trying to guard him, but may struggle against elite wings in the half court.

RJ Barrett
He looked like the best player in the game. Excellent creating with the ball, and had real size once he got into the paint. Got to the rim relentlessly and finished in a variety of ways. Very polished mid range game. Hit 1/2 from three and made all five free throws with a very smooth form. His team let him iso with the game on the line and he usually scored. Undoubtedly would have been MVP if his team won.

Others who stood out: Nassir Little (UNC) played with a lot of energy. He was gunning for MVP (cherry picked a lot) but he also hit some impressive shots off the dribble. In a sloppy game, being active counted for a lot. Same with David McCormack (Kansas), who bullied some slender bigs around the rim. Piled up rebounds and finished strong. He always seemed to be in the middle of the action. All of the bigs in the game did a good job finishing around the rim -- meaning they all have good hands, but also that none of them really protected the basket all that much. This description applies to E.J. Montgomery (uncommitted) too. Moses Brown (UCLA) stood out because he's super tall (7'1"), super skinny, and spent most of the game jacking up perimeter jumpers. Coby White (UNC) stood out because he had great hair, making him easy to spot. But he was pretty trigger happy (2-8 from the field) and seemed more like a combo guard than the point guard UNC needs.

Most memorable moment: The crowd really got excited when Nassir Little and Zion went back and forth for a few possessions. Little started things off with an impressive fadeaway jumper. Then on the other end he poked the ball away from Zion twice -- cleanly the first time, then less cleanly the second, resulting in Zion's injury. The crowd oohed and aaahed. Feeling pretty hype, Little raced down court and got a wide open corner three which he promptly airballed.

Funniest moment: Ronald McDonald dancing/hyping next to Ludacris during the halftime show.

Takeaways: Duke's offense could be great with three guys (Jones, Reddish, Barrett) who are elite at creating off the dribble. But when defenses help/pack the paint, can we hit enough threes to make them pay? All could be good shooters, but none are reliable yet. Also, not sure yet how Zion fits best, need to see more. If I were an NBA coach I might run a killer lineup of Jones-O'Connell-Barrett-Reddish-Zion for stretches, but that would hinge on how they shake out defensively. Get ready to hear a lot of "positionless basketball" talk.

Again, just what stood out to me from last night. Really enjoyed being there for a fun, weird, sloppy, high-scoring game.

[fan345678]

He’s fine

As the prophecy foretold:

On that day it shall be said to Jerusalem:
“Fear not, O Zion;
let not your hands grow weak.
The Lord your God is in your midst,
a mighty one who will save;
he will rejoice over you with gladness;
he will quiet you by his love;
he will exult over you with loud singing.

(Zephaniah 3:16-17)

[kAzE]

As the prophecy foretold:

On that day it shall be said to Jerusalem:
“Fear not, O Zion;
let not your hands grow weak.
The Lord your God is in your midst,
a mighty one who will save;
he will rejoice over you with gladness;
he will quiet you by his love;
he will exult over you with loud singing.

(Zephaniah 3:16-17)

Was there anything about winning a national championship or possibly a "one shining moment" in the rest of that verse?

[CajunDevil]

Overall: 2018-2019 Duke team will be an incredibly athletically gifted group of high basketball IQ guys who all can pass, penetrate, and score. What excites me most is how each player can see the floor and pass. This team will be tailor-made for a spot up 3 pt shooter to go bananas (Trent Jr. or AOC). Also, expect other teams to get in foul trouble trying to guard these guys... you just can't stay in front of them.


My take on Duke guys:

Cam: GREAT court vision and excellent handle. Hit big 3 in final minute. Very long... will be a point-guard/point-forward in NBA. He seemed to be frustrated bc his shots weren't falling... very active on D

RJ: best player on court by a good bit. He's an excellent athlete - quick, long, fast, good leaper - but his competitiveness and desire to impose his will on others is what separates him. RJ will be the leader of the team regardless who stays or goes...

Tre: very controlled game, some nice hit-aheads on the break, and a nice backdoor to Langford for a dunk and an alleyoop to the Kansas-bound SG. Didn't see him shoot from distance, and it was tough to see his defensive skills in this game.

Zion: Everyone knows he can jump... but his second jump is quick too - not Bagley quick/high but still impressive. I wish he would've put Little on a poster and he may have if he wasn't hacked on the second drive, but... there will be time for that.

[dchen09]

Thanks for the write up. I don't know about how our team will fit defensively but offensively I'm almost willing to forgo a traditional PG all together and go with O'Connell, Barrett, Reddish, Zion, and Delaurier. Let Reddish handle most of the PG duties, with O'Connell, Barrett and Zion being backup ballhandlers on the court. We get more 3 point shooting with O'Connell on the floor for Jones and we get a better rebounder/big man with Delaurier. This lineup can switch almost 1-5 and has some solid upperclassmen leadership. We probably lose some of our ability to penetrate against smaller guards but is an opponent's PG really going to switch onto a ball-screened Zion/Barrett and stop them from getting into the lane anyways?


This probably recaptures some other comments already in this thread, but I thought I'd share my observations from attending the game last night. I'm sure I missed some stuff, but here's what stood out to me:

Takeaways: Duke's offense could be great with three guys (Jones, Reddish, Barrett) who are elite at creating off the dribble. But when defenses help/pack the paint, can we hit enough threes to make them pay? All could be good shooters, but none are reliable yet. Also, not sure yet how Zion fits best, need to see more. If I were an NBA coach I might run a killer lineup of Jones-O'Connell-Barrett-Reddish-Zion for stretches, but that would hinge on how they shake out defensively. Get ready to hear a lot of "positionless basketball" talk.

Again, just what stood out to me from last night. Really enjoyed being there for a fun, weird, sloppy, high-scoring game.

[bedeviled]

Barrett interviews Reddish, Williamson, and Jones. The questions he's given aren't penetrative, but the interview gives a sense of their personalities

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jzIFbDFVXM&feature=youtu.be

[Gorilla]

Such a great video

[kAzE]

Usually, I wouldn't be interested in 4 high schoolers joking around, but I was surprised how much I enjoyed that. RJ and Zion are pretty funny guys. I'm glad they are all so close with each other, since Cam and Tre seem to be much more introverted. It's a very good group of kids.

Another thing I picked up from those interactions is how much of a natural leader RJ is. He's special.

[Troublemaker]

RJ's a stud. Plays in the McDonald's game yesterday in Atlanta. Then flies to NYC to play with his Montverde teammates today in a national quarterfinal game, scoring 33 points in a win(pdf) (https://basketball.exposureevents.com/108588/event/documents/gamestatistics?ids=5379579&output=pdf&v=636579490509877824&r=7) over Lone Peak, Frank Jackson's high school.

You can follow the bracket here: http://geicohoops.com/#section-dicks-nationals-bracket

[UrinalCake]

Fun video. Zion does appear to be a couple inches taller than Barrett and Reddish. If those wings are really 6'7 then that bodes very well. I have to say, I have never heard of "being in your bag" or "jelly cam," and I've certainly never "caught a body" before. There's a chance that I am old....

[proelitedota]

Fun video. Zion does appear to be a couple inches taller than Barrett and Reddish. If those wings are really 6'7 then that bodes very well. I have to say, I have never heard of "being in your bag" or "jelly cam," and I've certainly never "caught a body" before. There's a chance that I am old...

According to Jason Evans, Zion looks shorter than the wings. He measured 6'5 in stockings and that's probably the most accurate measurement.

[Troublemaker]

RJ's a stud. Plays in the McDonald's game yesterday in Atlanta. Then flies to NYC to play with his Montverde teammates today in a national quarterfinal game, scoring 33 points in a win(pdf) (https://basketball.exposureevents.com/108588/event/documents/gamestatistics?ids=5379579&output=pdf&v=636579490509877824&r=7) over Lone Peak, Frank Jackson's high school.

You can follow the bracket here: http://geicohoops.com/#section-dicks-nationals-bracket

Highlights from today's quarterfinal below. RJ has the chance to be our best player at driving to the basket (grading all aspects of that, including quickness, footwork, power, finishing and drawing fouls) since I don't even know when. Kyrie? JWill? Hopefully we can competently space the floor for him to go to work next season.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lxoyo9UZS4

[sagegrouse]

Fun video. Zion does appear to be a couple inches taller than Barrett and Reddish. If those wings are really 6'7 then that bodes very well. I have to say, I have never heard of "being in your bag" or "jelly cam," and I've certainly never "caught a body" before. There's a chance that I am old...

I talked with Zion after the Virginia game. Seemed like Elton Brand to me (of course, I may be a bit shorter than in 1999).

[Furniture]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O-Zq0ivKk10

[kAzE]

Highlights from today's quarterfinal below. RJ has the chance to be our best player at driving to the basket (grading all aspects of that, including quickness, footwork, power, finishing and drawing fouls) since I don't even know when. Kyrie? JWill? Hopefully we can competently space the floor for him to go to work next season.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lxoyo9UZS4

I don't think RJ took 1 jump shot that entire video . . . either he didn't make any of his jumpers, or he didn't need to take any. It seemed like he got to the rim at will. Still, it was a close game and came down to the other team pulling a Chris Webber and calling a timeout they didn't have to seal the deal.

Really looking forward to watching this kid go to work in a Duke uniform. He's a flat out winner.

[mr. synellinden]

He's a flat out winner.


This is my takeaway about what makes him special. How he led Canada to the gold medal. Kind of reminds me of Jalen Brunson that way. He seems to be able to make "winning plays". I just feel like I know it when I see it. It's either a hatred of losing, knowing how to win or both. Note that Montverde is 32-0 this season.

[subzero02]

I talked with Zion after the Virginia game. Seemed like Elton Brand to me (of course, I may be a bit shorter than in 1999).

Brand measured 6'8.25" without shoes and had a 7'5.5" wingspan. He also had freakishly good touch off the glass when finishing his post moves. Zion doesn't possess Brand's length(6'10"-7'0"wingspan ) but I believe he could be a very effective post presence on offense and defense. I think Zion will be too strong and explosive to be guarded one on one by almost every post player, even by those players who have a significant height advantage. The development of team chemistry on post entry passes will be an important theme again next year. I know AOC is great at making entry passes and from what I've seen from RJ and Cam, I think we could do well at this aspect of the game from the wings. Zion's frame and strength should allow him to establish post position and receive entry passes more easily than Carter and Bagley did this year. Zion's ability to pass out of double teams and make foul shots will determine the consistency of his dominance in the offensive post. How the high/low post situation between Zion and Bolden develops will be contingent on how well they shoot from outside the lane and from 3. Zion's ability/inability to drive the ball from the perimeter in the halfcourt without turning it over via a steal or charge will also heavily influence how K directs the flow of our offense. I do think CWELL will be able show Zion quite a few things.

[dukelifer]

Brand measured 6'8.25" without shoes and had a 7'5.5" wingspan. He also had freakishly good touch off the glass when finishing his post moves. Zion doesn't possess Brand's length(6'10"-7'0"wingspan ) but I believe he could be a very effective post presence on offense and defense. I think Zion will be too strong and explosive to be guarded one on one by almost every post player, even by those players who have a significant height advantage. The development of team chemistry on post entry passes will be an important theme again next year. I know AOC is great at making entry passes and from what I've seen from RJ and Cam, I think we could do well at this aspect of the game from the wings. Zion's frame and strength should allow him to establish post position and receive entry passes more easily than Carter and Bagley did this year. Zion's ability to pass out of double teams and make foul shots will determine the consistency of his dominance in the offensive post. How the high/low post situation between Zion and Bolden develops will be contingent on how well they shoot from outside the lane and from 3. Zion's ability/inability to drive the ball from the perimeter in the halfcourt without turning it over via a steal or charge will also heavily influence how K directs the flow of our offense. I do think CWELL will be able show Zion quite a few things.
Zion needs to spend the next few months while that thumb heals shooting free throws. He will be fouled a lot. He needs to knock them down.

[Troublemaker]

Brand measured 6'8.25" without shoes and had a 7'5.5" wingspan. He also had freakishly good touch off the glass when finishing his post moves. Zion doesn't possess Brand's length(6'10"-7'0"wingspan ) but I believe he could be a very effective post presence on offense and defense. I think Zion will be too strong and explosive to be guarded one on one by almost every post player, even by those players who have a significant height advantage. The development of team chemistry on post entry passes will be an important theme again next year. I know AOC is great at making entry passes and from what I've seen from RJ and Cam, I think we could do well at this aspect of the game from the wings. Zion's frame and strength should allow him to establish post position and receive entry passes more easily than Carter and Bagley did this year. Zion's ability to pass out of double teams and make foul shots will determine the consistency of his dominance in the offensive post. How the high/low post situation between Zion and Bolden develops will be contingent on how well they shoot from outside the lane and from 3. Zion's ability/inability to drive the ball from the perimeter in the halfcourt without turning it over via a steal or charge will also heavily influence how K directs the flow of our offense. I do think CWELL will be able show Zion quite a few things.

Gosh, I hope most of Zion's scoring comes from drives and "grab and go" opportunities in transition, not postups. He should post up some but not that much. I mean, I'm just not really looking forward to figuring out the high-low chemistry between Zion and Marques. I'm done with two-big offense, and hopefully so is Coach K.

Our offense next season should be to spread the court and have RJ drive. Have Zion drive. Tre drive. Cam drive. We're going to rack up foul trouble on the other team like crazy, and 3 of those 4 drivers can hit FTs!

[budwom]

Gosh, I hope most of Zion's scoring comes from drives and "grab and go" opportunities in transition, not postups. He should post up some but not that much. I mean, I'm just not really looking forward to figuring out the high-low chemistry between Zion and Marques. I'm done with two-big offense, and hopefully so is Coach K.

Our offense next season should be to spread the court and have RJ drive. Have Zion drive. Tre drive. Cam drive. We're going to rack up foul trouble on the other team like crazy, and 3 of those 4 drivers can hit FTs!

I'm with you on much of that*. But I think teams will quickly figure this out and zone us from dawn to dusk...will our shooters be more or less reliable than this year's version?

*but I'd take Bagley and Carter back in a heartbeat

[fraggler]

I'm with you on much of that*. But I think teams will quickly figure this out and zone us from dawn to dusk...will our shooters be more or less reliable than this year's version?

*but I'd take Bagley and Carter back in a heartbeat

We are definitely going to see a ton of zone to stop our drives. Boy I hope our incoming guys learn how to adapt quickly.

[Ian]

I'm with you on much of that*. But I think teams will quickly figure this out and zone us from dawn to dusk...will our shooters be more or less reliable than this year's version?

*but I'd take Bagley and Carter back in a heartbeat

RJ Barrett and Tre Jones both supposedly have tremendous mid range games, they'll need it against the zone.

[CajunDevil]

Quick passes from side to side, penetrating the seams, or passing to the open guy at FT line are three ways to attack a zone. We will be able to relentlessly attack the seams, and RJ, Zion or Cam at the FT line will render a zone useless. Given the ability to penetrate, the real question regarding a zone will be whether we can hit wide-open, spot up 3s... Based on their form, and what I've seen, I think Cam and RJ will shoot 35-40% overall from 3. I have no feel for Tre's shot, but AOC could fill a key spot in a death lineup.

[fraggler]

Quick passes from side to side, penetrating the seams, or passing to the open guy at FT line are three ways to attack a zone. We will be able to relentlessly attack the seams, and RJ, Zion or Cam at the FT line will render a zone useless. Given the ability to penetrate, the real question regarding a zone will be whether we can hit wide-open, spot up 3s... Based on their form, and what I've seen, I think Cam and RJ will shoot 35-40% overall from 3. I have no feel for Tre's shot, but AOC could fill a key spot in a death lineup.

I can see Cam near 40%, but I'm not sold on RJ yet. None of the others were good shooters in high school, and while their mechanics don't seem broken, they also don't look like a "shooter's" stroke. I think they should be able to shoot well enough to keep defenses honest, but not sure how dependable they will be.

As you said, we will have to be really good with our passing and penetrating (and so far, things look good for this).

[shjiang]

Brand measured 6'8.25" without shoes and had a 7'5.5" wingspan. He also had freakishly good touch off the glass when finishing his post moves. Zion doesn't possess Brand's length(6'10"-7'0"wingspan ) but I believe he could be a very effective post presence on offense and defense. I think Zion will be too strong and explosive to be guarded one on one by almost every post player, even by those players who have a significant height advantage. The development of team chemistry on post entry passes will be an important theme again next year. I know AOC is great at making entry passes and from what I've seen from RJ and Cam, I think we could do well at this aspect of the game from the wings. Zion's frame and strength should allow him to establish post position and receive entry passes more easily than Carter and Bagley did this year. Zion's ability to pass out of double teams and make foul shots will determine the consistency of his dominance in the offensive post. How the high/low post situation between Zion and Bolden develops will be contingent on how well they shoot from outside the lane and from 3. Zion's ability/inability to drive the ball from the perimeter in the halfcourt without turning it over via a steal or charge will also heavily influence how K directs the flow of our offense. I do think CWELL will be able show Zion quite a few things.

Not saying Zion will be, but his finish near the rim in McDonald is not really good. In first half, I think he is at least blocked twice by Jordan Brown and Jalen Smith when he tried to make the ball near the rim. A 6'10'' guy with 7'2 wingspan will affect his finish, that is also point that Givony mentioned in his article. Zion still needs to be playing like Stretch 4 type which needs him to improve his mid range jumper and 3 a lot.

[UrinalCake]

Agree with Shjiang, I think early in the season we’ll get lulled into thinking Zion can play center for us because we’ll be playing scrub teams and he’ll be matched up against 6’6 220lb guys. But against legit ACC centers who are 7’ 250 he won’t be able to push around and dunk over them. I’m sure he knows this and will continue to work on his perimeter game. He already seems to be able to drive and attack when facing up, if he develops a 3pt shot he would be a real matchup problem kind of like Bonzie Colston.

Breaking down zone defenses will be all about dribble penetration from the guards/wings, something that was seriously lacking this year.

[Ian]

Agree with Shjiang, I think early in the season we’ll get lulled into thinking Zion can play center for us because we’ll be playing scrub teams and he’ll be matched up against 6’6 220lb guys. But against legit ACC centers who are 7’ 250 he won’t be able to push around and dunk over them. I’m sure he knows this and will continue to work on his perimeter game. He already seems to be able to drive and attack when facing up, if he develops a 3pt shot he would be a real matchup problem kind of like Bonzie Colston.

If 6-6 Bonzi Colson can play center in the ACC and average 20/10, then Williamson can play center. Bonzi is very skilled and crafty though.

[MrPoon]

If 6-6 Bonzi Colson can play center in the ACC and average 20/10, then Williamson can play center. Bonzi is very skilled and crafty though.

About a month ago Sam Vecenie on his podcast was discussing Duke’s commits and was flat out begging K to play Zion at the 5, clone Draymond and score 100 every game. If the ball can move I think that lineup from about the 15 min mark in the second half to about the 8 ish would be just awesome. No halftime adjustments for the opposition D. Zion could post up nearly anyone but could also take them outside and drive on them or just open up the paint for the other wings to drive and finish or drive and kick. The length, athleticism and skill would be crazy. I also can’t wait to see the switch-everything D.

Still hate talking about next season this early!:(

[kAzE]

About a month ago Sam Vecenie on his podcast was discussing Duke’s commits and was flat out begging K to play Zion at the 5, clone Draymond and score 100 every game. If the ball can move I think that lineup from about the 15 min mark in the second half to about the 8 ish would be just awesome. No halftime adjustments for the opposition D. Zion could post up nearly anyone but could also take them outside and drive on them or just open up the paint for the other wings to drive and finish or drive and kick. The length, athleticism and skill would be crazy. I also can’t wait to see the switch-everything D.

Still hate talking about next season this early!:(

I've been campaigning for this since he committed to Duke. It would work especially well if Gary Trent returns for another year. We would be able to play 5 out 0 in and attack the paint like crazy.

I'm not sure Zion is a post up player. He hasn't shown great back to basket skills. He's much more effective attacking off the bounce from the perimeter, or just catching and finishing. I think posting him up would be a good use of his playmaking abilities, but I'm not convinced he'd be an effective back to the basket scorer with his game, especially if he's matched up with a much taller and longer big man. His primary advantage over opposing bigs is his amazing speed and quickness, which would largely be nullified in a post up situation.

[CDu]

I've been campaigning for this since he committed to Duke. It would work especially well if Gary Trent returns for another year. We would be able to play 5 out 0 in and attack the paint like crazy.

I'm not sure Zion is a post up player. He hasn't shown great back to basket skills. He's much more effective attacking off the bounce from the perimeter, or just catching and finishing. I think posting him up would be a good use of his playmaking abilities, but I'm not convinced he'd be an effective back to the basket scorer with his game, especially if he's matched up with a much taller and longer big man. His primary advantage over opposing bigs is his amazing speed and quickness, which would largely be nullified in a post up situation.

Yeah, I would not post him up against bigs. I would have him drag bigs out away from the basket. I WOULD post him up if he got switched onto a little, though. Because he has the strength and the agility to punish a guard/wing in the paint.

My only concern with next year's offense is whether or not we'll be able to punish teams that play zone and pack it in. I hope that Reddish, Barrett, and Jones can provide enough shooting (with help from O'Connell off the bench) to drag defenses out far enough that our driving lanes are there.

[dchen09]

I've been campaigning for this since he committed to Duke. It would work especially well if Gary Trent returns for another year. We would be able to play 5 out 0 in and attack the paint like crazy.

I'm not sure Zion is a post up player. He hasn't shown great back to basket skills. He's much more effective attacking off the bounce from the perimeter, or just catching and finishing. I think posting him up would be a good use of his playmaking abilities, but I'm not convinced he'd be an effective back to the basket scorer with his game, especially if he's matched up with a much taller and longer big man. His primary advantage over opposing bigs is his amazing speed and quickness, which would largely be nullified in a post up situation.

I agree with you, particularly in context of the modern game. Having a back-to-the-basket big man is no longer a priority because of the space that 3 point shooting and ball movement opens up. It is more important that a big man be able to 1) defend the pick and roll, 2) maintain defensive position, and 3) finish pick and roll opportunities. The reason why Draymond Green works so well in his role is that not only can he do all these things, but he can also shoot and is a deadly passer (probably the best one on the team). Zion for sure is not at the same caliber that Draymond Green is, but he has the talent and the body type to do most of these things, particularly at the college level. Heck, even his measurements are comparable as Green is only 6'6 with a 7'1 wingspan.

My concern is do we really have the shooters to play 5 out considering Tre, RJ, and Zion are not known to be great shooters.

[Troublemaker]

RJ with 22 points, 10 rebounds (team highs in both) in a semifinal win over Findlay Prep (pdf) (https://basketball.exposureevents.com/108588/event/documents/gamestatistics?ids=5379578&output=pdf&v=636580312702868755&r=7).

RJ and Montverde play for the high school national championship tomorrow. On the opposing team will be 2019 big man Vernon Carey, whom Duke is recruiting.

[Troublemaker]

While we're here, Bleacher Report did a nice little 3.5 minute feature on RJ. In case anyone didn't know, RJ is Steve Nash's godson. Nash is in the video commenting on RJ.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuqnobGN7TM

[Steven43]

Quick passes from side to side, penetrating the seams, or passing to the open guy at FT line are three ways to attack a zone. We will be able to relentlessly attack the seams, and RJ, Zion or Cam at the FT line will render a zone useless. Given the ability to penetrate, the real question regarding a zone will be whether we can hit wide-open, spot up 3s... Based on their form, and what I've seen, I think Cam and RJ will shoot 35-40% overall from 3. I have no feel for Tre's shot, but AOC could fill a key spot in a death lineup.
Speaking of the zone defense, why was Syracuse so readily able to pass the ball to a man 8-10 feet from the basket for a relatively easy shot against at most one defender? Luckily, they missed more times than they made it, but the fact remains that the shot was there for them over and over again. They also had an inordinate number of close-in shot attempts with simple passes to a man who was then just one step from attacking the rim. Yet on the other end our offense usually had to work much harder to get similarly-easy shot attempts. Why was that?

If Syracuse had not shot the ball so woefully they would have beaten us that day. That is why the game was so excruciating and perplexing to watch—their shot attempts were achieved fairly easily while ours were more difficult. Why was their zone defense so much more effective than ours? The Kansas game was somewhat similar in that their defense was much more effective in denying easy shots than was ours.

It was only Duke’s vastly superior talent level that even kept the game close. And that is why I think Villanova would have beaten Duke by double digits—their talent level is better than that of Kansas or Syracuse and they play team basketball better than just about anybody. You combine that with very good coaching and mature players with experience and they are absolutely the team to beat. Yes, I would have loved for Duke to make the Final Four, but that is likely as far as we were going to go.

[lotusland]

Barrett interviews Reddish, Williamson, and Jones. The questions he's given aren't penetrative, but the interview gives a sense of their personalities

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jzIFbDFVXM&feature=youtu.be

I didn’t understand the questions or the answers. I’m old as crap.

[weezie]

After watching some of that vid, I hope it has been made crystal clear to the Duke Football program that Zion is coming to play hoops. Not football. Not even if those shoulders make him look like a big old receiver.

He come across as a really nice and unassuming young man. But wowie, he's built like a Mack truck!

[jv001]

After watching some of that vid, I hope it has been made crystal clear to the Duke Football program that Zion is coming to play hoops. Not football. Not even if those shoulders make him look like a big old receiver.

He come across as a really nice and unassuming young man. But wowie, he's built like a Mack truck!

watching that video, I kept thinking I was looking at Tyus instead of Tre. Gosh they look like twin brothers to me, but of course they're not. Looking forward to watching this group play together. GoDuke!

[flyingdutchdevil]

watching that video, I kept thinking I was looking at Tyus instead of Tre. Gosh they look like twin brothers to me, but of course they're not. Looking forward to watching this group play together. GoDuke!

Really? They don't look like twins in the slightest. Tre's skin is much darker than Tyus's and doesn't have the freckles that Tyus does. I agree they move similarly, but I was surprised how different they look.

[Duke76]

While we're here, Bleacher Report did a nice little 3.5 minute feature on RJ. In case anyone didn't know, RJ is Steve Nash's godson. Nash is in the video commenting on RJ.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuqnobGN7TM

gonna be cool seeing Steve Nash at Duke games next year...maybe he will work a little with Tre

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

gonna be cool seeing Steve Nash at Duke games next year...maybe he will work a little with Tre

Steve Nash and David Robinson could step in for some scrimmage time.

[NSDukeFan]

Steve Nash and David Robinson could step in for some scrimmage time.

Could Carrawell guard Robinson if he had to?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Could Carrawell guard Robinson if he had to?

I get that reference!

:)

[BD80]

Could Carrawell guard Robinson if he had to?

When Caleb comes for his official visit, will he be trash talking Justin: "My dad could guard your dad!"


Actually, with his dad on staff, will Caleb be allowed unfettered access to the team and the facilities?