MBB: Kansas 85, Duke 81 (NCAA Qtrs) Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here. Remember, no venting or bashing of Duke players or coaches.

[kaufmjo]

Painful loss.

[drummerdevil]

'Twas a great season, and I'm sad it had to come to a premature end. Best of luck to all the starters in the NBA.

[Hancock 4 Duke]

Terrible poise in OT. Terrible.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Kansas just executed better. That's all it came down to. Tough way to go out with Duke's top guys not playing their best. Was fun watching Allen for 4 years though. Bagley and Carter are going to do damage right away in the NBA. Duval and Trent will be doing it too eventually.

[DU82]

Had our chances, couldn't finish. A few too many mistakes in OT. Congratulations to Kansas for winning. (It would go down as a great game except for the outcome.)

[flyingdutchdevil]

Good season. Tough loss. KU was excellent. They beat Duke with a vintage-Duke game plan.

Bring on another group of freshman.

[DarkstarWahoo]

I’m sorry, y’all. That was the best game of the tournament so far. Duke would have been a worthy Final Four rep.

[duke96]

Wow. Almost had it despite a tough shooting night. Guys have it a great effort. And with Newman lights out and some tough calls, not much to say except proud of the team and they gave great effort.

[Ian]

We had it, up 3 with the ball, and tied with the ball with 20 secs left. Make a play and we win.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Tough loss, was there for the taking at the end of regulation, but that's the margin of error in this tournament.

Not gonna focus on the Carter call.

Best of luck to everyone in the NBA.

[Les Grossman]

bring on the next bunch of OADs

[eddiehaskell]

Kind of a crap call they should’ve kept the ball with Duke. And damn, up 3 with about 30 seconds....why give up a 3 to tie it? Why does Grayson always need to be the hero?

[Oriole Way]

Lots of bad calls going against us. Duval played great, but his turnover trying to cut through 2 defenders was devastating.

Kansas abused our top weakness in the zone - the corner 3.

Doubt we would have beaten the experience and shooting of Villanova. Hoping Tre Jones is more of a consistent PG for us next year.

It was a pleasure watching Bagley and Carter this year.

[Coballs]

Robbed by the refs. Carters 5th completely reversed any advantage we had in OT and it was without question a horrible call.

[bbq-devil]

Ouch. Had lots of chances but didn’t execute. No touches for Bagley in the last few possessions.

Nice to watch Allen, Carter, and Bagley. Maybe we will still see Trent and Duval next year.

[ipatent]

Kansas hit clutch threes, we didn't.

[rsvman]

That call on Carter was the death knell.

But we coulda should woulda won it in regulation. In retrospect, having Grayson go one on five on the last possession of regulation was ill conceived.
Trent is our best at the foster, and nobody had been able to stop Duval when he drove the lane.

Water under the bridge now, though. Outshot, outrebounded, out-reffed.

[Troublemaker]

Great game. We were a rim out from the Final Four.

Thanks for a very good season, players and coaches. I enjoyed watching your growth and subsequent almost making it to the promised land. Again, a rim out away. Darn.

[jwillfan]

Can I vent about the refs? Because they stole this one from us. We were fouled repeatedly no calls on our offensive side, the WC charge in OT, and the reversed OOB call. If Grayson or Trent hit a couple more 3s even 10% below their avg it's not close. Head scratcher game from WC and we never seemed to get the ball to Bagley in position. I'd say hats off to KU but really it was Newman that just go hot, and we gave him too many open looks. If Grayon's shot at the end of regulation drops in on the 3rd revolution we are having a different conversation

[DU82]

Robbed by the refs. Carters 5th completely reversed any advantage we had in OT.

As it turned out, it didn't matter, as Kansas didn't hit the rim in the six seconds they had.

Carter's fifth, on the other hand, changed things. Gave them two points, and put Javin in instead of Wendell. Changes the offensive gameplan.

[Mak P]

Momentum

Ref messed up an obvious charge, obvious charge and killed the momentum also taking out Carter. That was not cool and was some rigged I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. cause their guy was out and tried to even the odds

[dyedwab]

The problem with the block/charge call on Carter was that it ended up being the turning point of the game. We overcame everything else - terrible perimeter shooting, bad rebounding etc.

But if they call that a charge, not a block, we win.

I'm glad I'm gonna be hosting a seder next Saturday night so I don't have any reason at all to watch a game that I'm certain we should be playing in

[drummerdevil]

Momentum

Ref messed up an obvious charge, obvious charge and killed the momentum also taking out Carter. That was not cool and was some rigged I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. cause their guy was out and tried to even the odds

Agreed... and some "makeup" calls against us...

[duke09hms]

Kind of a crap call they should’ve kept the ball with Duke. And damn, up 3 with about 30 seconds...why give up a 3 to tie it? Why does Grayson always need to be the hero?

Totally, Allen is a great player and student but has had poor court sense for what we’d expect of a Duke sr captain.

[jipops]

This game was lost once it went to OT. We’re too young to handle pressure games like this.

Carter missing the chippie and then them hitting the 3 was the deadly exchange. It was a great effort though. That ball almost trickled in for Grayson. Sometimes it’s just a game of luck. Today just didn’t go our way.

[Les Grossman]

Can't see how people are faulting the calls on Carter. He had a very off game. Rode the pine much of the way, airmailed a couple of clutch bunnies.

I feel bad for him the way it ended. but nba

[WHOneedsSOX]

That 3 Newman hit to put them up for good was in the corner Carter would've been defending. Would he have made a difference there? Who knows.

Tough way to lose but Duke had their chances. Just couldn't make a shot when they needed it most.

[Philadukie]

Can I vent about the refs? Because they stole this one from us. We were fouled repeatedly no calls on our offensive side, the WC charge in OT, and the reversed OOB call. If Grayson or Trent hit a couple more 3s even 10% below their avg it's not close. Head scratcher game from WC and we never seemed to get the ball to Bagley in position. I'd say hats off to KU but really it was Newman that just go hot, and we gave him too many open looks. If Grayon's shot at the end of regulation drops in on the 3rd revolution we are having a different conversation

I understand why my thread got shut down. I get it.

I haven’t been this mad about a call that cost us a game in a long time. That call ended it for us.

[dairedevil]

Despite the commentary, Duke stayed in the game. They had their chances and couldn’t capitalize. I’m sorry they lost and the season is over,but as I said in chat, I just don’t get as emotional over the one and done teams. I will probably never see Bagley, Carter, and the others play again. Wish them all the best in their career and life.

[crdaul]

Outrebounded by a team with 4 guards... couldn't buy a 3 when needed...close, but no cigar. Thanks to our team for a good year.. .next play!

[YmoBeThere]

Overall a great season, would have loved to see us play here in my current home town of San Antonio but it wasn't meant to be. We got out executed at the end, I think our youth was exposed. But oh so close.

[Dukehky]

Self dominated K tonight. Also, I know Grayson is a senior, but not giving it to Bagley with Azabuike out to end the game was a I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ing travesty.

[DukieInKansas]

Not the outcome I wanted. Thank you to our Senior, Grayson, for 4 years. Good luck to all that will be leaving Duke. (Still hoping someone will surprise and come back.)

Not to figure out how to face KU fans for the next week.

[fgb]

Can't see how people are faulting the calls on Carter

really?

[jwillfan]

Not the outcome I wanted. Thank you to our Senior, Grayson, for 4 years. Good luck to all that will be leaving Duke. (Still hoping someone will surprise and come back.)

Not to figure out how to face KU fans for the next week.


I live in Durham so other than obnoxious "u"NCheat fans I won't have an issue - and since they didn't make it out of the first weekend, no problema

[WHOneedsSOX]

One stop away from making it to the final 4. One lucky roll away. Thought Allen was going to bring it home for Duke up 3 with 30ish seconds left. Defense just got sloppy and gave Kansas a wide open 3 to tie it.

[Les Grossman]

I just don’t get as emotional over the one and done teams. I will probably never see Bagley, Carter, and the others play again. Wish them all the best in their career and life.
Kind of my view too, but...

Not the outcome I wanted. Thank you to our Senior, Grayson, for 4 years. Its been a pleasure watching Grayson for 4.

[Saratoga2]

Very hard fought game with Duke a whisker away from the win. Sorry they didn't move forward, but you can't fault the effort.

A lot of good things tonight with Duval playing well despite a few questionable plays. I liked his defense and finishing around the rim.

Grayson just couldn't get much going. When he drove and got fouled, he contributed the most. His 3 point shot just wasn't there for a second game only it was needed against Kansas.

We didn't have the right answer for the corner 3 of Kansas. We also didn't finish the game very well.

This team was Uber talented and clearly most if not all of the starting 5 will be back. Thanks to all of them for the memories.

[nmduke2001]

We were up 3 with under 30 seconds left and only had 4 (maybe it was 5) team fouls. How do we give up a tying 3? You can be ultra aggressive on defense and foul if you need it.

[Wildling]

I understand why my thread got shut down. I get it.

I haven’t been this mad about a call that cost us a game in a long time. That call ended it for us.

No it didn't.


Outrebounded by a team with 4 guards... couldn't buy a 3 when needed...close, but no cigar. Thanks to our team for a good year.. .next play!

This is the reason why.

[drummerdevil]

Next season.

Sure, the refs made a terrible call or two. I've been the first to criticize. But it's all said and done, and nothing we can do will change that. In the meantime, we have Nos. 1, 2, and 3 coming in (along with Tyus' little bro) for next year, and some really good guys who can give us another year. I'm as depressed as the rest of y'all, but let's reflect for no more than a day before looking to Minneapolis next year.

[cspan37421]

As it turned out, it didn't matter, as Kansas didn't hit the rim in the six seconds they had.

Kansas didn't hit the rim on a lot of their made shots, too. To me, their sharpshooting was decisive. They shot better, and from where it counts more.

In other news, I felt neutral about Samsung before this tourney started. Now I am so sick of their S9 commercial, I'd avoid their products. Pony up for a few different commercials, will ya? You're paying all this money to get the airtime - have a little variety, for Pete's sake!

[bluenorth]

This is what happens when two top teams go at it, normally easy plays/shots become difficult, and the opposition does its best to take away at least one of your strengths. It looked like Allen was closely guarded most of the time. The fifth foul on Carter was clearly a charge, and just when he seemed to be finding his way on the offensive end. A game changer without question.

Thanks to Grayson for four great years, and best of luck to all of the players next year (whichever league they're in).

[Henderson]

Hey, I thought the quants said we were going to win. Now I can't trust math?

[fan345678]

Only Bolden and Delaurier had fewer field goal attempts than Bagley. No excuse for that.

[DukeDevil]

I understand why my thread got shut down. I get it.

I haven’t been this mad about a call that cost us a game in a long time. That call ended it for us.

For what it's worth, the 1 minute it was up helped soothe my anger.

[Bob Green]

I'm disappointed we lost to a less talented team but the bottom line is Kansas out executed us down the stretch. I stated several times this season the team needed another 3 PT shooter.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Only Bolden and Delaurier had fewer field goal attempts than Bagley. No excuse for that.

#10 (can't spell his name) did a FANTASTIC job boxing him out all game.

[WiJoe]

getting hammered on boards was difference.

no excuse for that.

NONE

[MartyClark]

I am guilty of living vicariously through Duke basketball. Maybe that is good because my life is steady. Maybe bad because I care too much about people I don't personally know and a school I didn't attend.

This game was lost through Carter's foul trouble and Grayson's inability to hit a shotl

I'm going to pout a while before coming back to the board.

Kansas is pretty good and they played well.

[drummerdevil]

I'm disappointed we lost to a less talented team but the bottom line is Kansas out executed us down the stretch. I stated several times this season the team needed another 3 PT shooter.

It didn't seem to me that we had a single shooter all game...

[eddiehaskell]

Well...we were thinking going in that this team could easily lose in the first or second round. Being a bounce or 50/50 call away from the final 4 is a good finish despite wanting much more.

[MarkD83]

This is what happens when two top teams go at it, normally easy plays/shots become difficult, and the opposition does its best to take away at least one of your strengths. It looked like Allen was closely guarded most of the time. The fifth foul on Carter was clearly a charge, and just when he seemed to be finding his way on the offensive end. A game changer without question.

Thanks to Grayson for four great years, and best of luck to all of the players next year (whichever league they're in).

I totally agree. Great game. There are a thousand things to second guess but only because we lost. If Allen's shot goes in Kansas' fans would have a thousand things to second guess.

[DukieInKansas]

Postgame presser up. Bags and Grayson are the players

[WiJoe]

#10 (can't spell his name) did a FANTASTIC job boxing him out all game.

alphabet

[Troublemaker]

Yeah, the refs didn't cost us the game.

My complaints from the game would be:
(1) Don't get pounded on the boards by a previously weak rebounding team in Kansas.
(2) Don't needlessly run that 1-3-1ish looking zone at the beginning of the second half that KU destroyed.
(3) Make a shot up three with the ball in the closing minute. Or, alternatively, make a shot to win at the buzzer.

[scottdude8]

A season that was always “thisclose” ended in a game that was literally decided by inches. We had a shot to win every game we lost this season, but didn’t have the closing ability. If we win any one of those games, maybe we’re a 1 seed and don’t have to play Kansas at a location that benefitted them.

Nonetheless, I’m proud this team made it to the Elite 8, especially considering the doom and gloom. I’m especially proud that Trevon did a lot of work to silence the critics tonight. I was also proud to see how much a “one and done” like Carter obviously cared about winning at Duke. Say what you want about one and dones, but our guys cared. A lot.

I really wanted Grayson to go out on a high note. I’ll always love that kid. That’s what hurts so much right now.

[Wander]

That sucked.

At the end of the day, we never really did learn to maximize the advantage of playing Bagley and Carter together or learn how to handle Duval's bad shooting and hilariously awful turnovers. So to me, it isn't like a 1999 type of year where it feels like we completely deserved the national title.

But still, F that charge/block call.

[ncexnyc]

Sadly, the vast majority of seasons end this way and it's always hard to bite that bullet.

We shot lights out last weekend and couldn't hit the broadside of a barn this weekend, yet had a chance to win in regulation. If we only could have saved a basket or two from last weekend.

Still puzzled by Bolden riding the pine once Carter fouled out. We could have played Bolden on the blocks and Marvin could have floated around the top of the key. At least both players would have been a threat to score in that scenario.

Excellent game from Trevon and I hope we don't let his last few plays color our judgement of what he meant to us today. The same can be said for Grayson career wise.

I wish all the players who decide to leave the best in life and for those who do stay, you know what you've got to do to get better.

It was a fun ride while it lasted and I look forward to seeing next years team.

[Dukehky]

Javin over Bolden seems silly. Bagley was the better defender on the perimeter tonight by far v. Javin, and having Bolden would have allowed him to stay out there.

The gamble by Duval when we were up 3 to give Svi an open shot was not good.

That was brutal.

[jipops]

It would have been great to make another Final Four. But I really don’t think we would have gotten by Nova anyways. They are a level above everyone right now.

[DukeDevil]

Next season.

Sure, the refs made a terrible call or two. I've been the first to criticize. But it's all said and done, and nothing we can do will change that. In the meantime, we have Nos. 1, 2, and 3 coming in (along with Tyus' little bro) for next year, and some really good guys who can give us another year. I'm as depressed as the rest of y'all, but let's reflect for no more than a day before looking to Minneapolis next year.

I will also point out that cities that end in Apolis are quite good for us.

[dudog84]

If you'd have told me we'd be out-rebounded by 15, that Bagley and Carter would have a combined 26 points, and Trent and Allen would shoot 4-19 from 3, I would have told you we lost by 20.

Don't know that I've ever seen a call impact a game so much. Block/charge is usually a bang-bang and tough to call, but that wasn't even close.

The only plus is I don't have to listen to these announcers next week.

[bluenorth]

This game was lost once it went to OT. We’re too young to handle pressure games like this.

Carter missing the chippie and then them hitting the 3 was the deadly exchange. It was a great effort though. That ball almost trickled in for Grayson. Sometimes it’s just a game of luck. Today just didn’t go our way.

There was a recurring theme since New Year's with having trouble closing out close games. As you said, youth is a big factor. Hopefully we'll have a more balanced look next year as far as the freshman-sophomore-junior mix goes.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

This game was lost once it went to OT. We’re too young to handle pressure games like this.

Carter missing the chippie and then them hitting the 3 was the deadly exchange. It was a great effort though. That ball almost trickled in for Grayson. Sometimes it’s just a game of luck. Today just didn’t go our way.

The frustrating thing is this could be a character/experience building moment for the team, much like KU had to face two Elite 8 losses before finally breaking through this year.

But how can our team build off this loss, make it a teaching moment, when we’ll have completely new starting 5 next year?

To me, that’s the real shame of the “1&Done” philosophy year-after-year.

[Dukehky]

There was a recurring theme since New Year's with having trouble closing out close games. As you said, youth is a big factor. Hopefully we'll have a more balanced look next year as far as the freshman-sophomore-junior mix goes.

If you're hoping for that, you're going to be hoping for a long time.

[jipops]

I'm disappointed we lost to a less talented team but the bottom line is Kansas out executed us down the stretch. I stated several times this season the team needed another 3 PT shooter.

O’Connell says hi.

[WiJoe]

Javin over Bolden seems silly.

Javin more mobile.

[WHOneedsSOX]

There was a recurring theme since New Year's with having trouble closing out close games. As you said, youth is a big factor. Hopefully we'll have a more balanced look next year as far as the freshman-sophomore-junior mix goes.

Jones should help some if he's the floor general like his brother is but as far as leadership goes, Duke really won't have any. Who's going to be captain? DeLaurier? He'll play 12-14 minutes tops unless he really develops his game.

[DukieInKansas]

I will also point out that cities that end in Apolis are quite good for us.

I was worried with the Final Four being in San Antonio. Looking forward to a Final Four in Minneapolis next year. We do play well in Apolis.

[dukelifer]

This was a hard fought game. Duke had their shot to win. That is all you can ask for. In games like this- one player usually has a great game. Neumann was that player for Kansas and that was the difference. He hit big shot after big shot. No one from Duke matched that level of play. This Kansas team had been knocking on the door for a few years. That experience matters. This was the best team Duke had played all year. They were right there but it was not meant to be. Next year will be brand new. So not much will carry over from this game.

[BigZ]

1999, 2002, 2004, 2018

[BlueDevilBrowns]

There was a recurring theme since New Year's with having trouble closing out close games. As you said, youth is a big factor. Hopefully we'll have a more balanced look next year as far as the freshman-sophomore-junior mix goes.

We will likely have 4 freshmen and 1 junior starting next year.

[cruxer]

Yeah, the refs didn't cost us the game.


I know some here have a thing about ref bashing, but they made some key mistakes that cost us. Did the players make mistakes? Of course. KU made some mistakes too. It's okay to point out the mistakes the officials made.

[Dukehky]

Javin more mobile.

Cool, way to ignore the entire rest of my post.

Bagley was a better defender all night, and Bolden would have taken Carter's spot in the middle.

[KandG]

Tough finish. Just too much to overcome with Carter basically out for two-thirds of the game. We might have still pulled it out, but the dreadful charge call was the death knell. Says something for the talent of the team that they could still have an excellent chance of winning it in regulation with the heart of their zone effectively not available for the majority of the game.

The makeup of the team was always going to mean fragile outcomes like this were possible and even likely against good, experienced teams, no matter how formidable our talent. Foul trouble plus Grayson's stroke not being there made the margin for victory razor-thin. Ultimately, I think the season would have ended against Villanova next week, but I wanted it to at least get there.

Mildly frustrated it was so difficult getting the ball to Bagley down the stretch and that we didn't do some offense-defense subbing in OT (Duval-DuLaurier made it too easy for Kansas to cover the 3 offensive threats). But those are quibbles. K did a masterful job implementing the zone and establishing the defensive identity of this group mid-season, but there were just too many holes to plug against an experienced team of shooters and Self knew how to attack all of them.

I enjoyed watching the team through all the crazy highs and frustrating losses all season, and don't regret investing a single second of my time and emotion in them. Thank you Grayson for four fabulous, eventful years and to all the players moving on, best of luck succeeding in the NBA or whatever you do next. Proud of this group and sorry it couldn't have ended better.

(Side note: have to mention Newman was an absolute stud all game. Give him credit for playing the game of his life to beat us.)

[LSanders]

My only wish was they simply gave the ball to Grayson the last two minutes and told him to just play.

[rsvman]

O’Connell says hi.

To be fair, O'Connell hasn't made a three in a while. The last for or five he shot weren't close.

Granted, probably still a better bet than the corner three by Duval, but.....

[MartyClark]

Javin over Bolden seems silly. Bagley was the better defender on the perimeter tonight by far v. Javin, and having Bolden would have allowed him to stay out there.

The gamble by Duval when we were up 3 to give Svi an open shot was not good.

That was brutal.

Yeah, Javin has not played well in the recent big games.

[Wander]

My only wish was they simply gave the ball to Grayson the last two minutes and told him to just play.

We DID do that in the last two minutes... of regulation. And it basically worked.

It's easier said than done, but we needed to try a little harder to get Bagley touches in overtime.

[bluenorth]

If you're hoping for that, you're going to be hoping for a long time.

I know, but hope does spring eternal (I read that somewhere, likely from a coach or recruiter).

[Bob Green]

O’Connell says hi.

O'Connell has scored zero points in the last five games.

[ingrjc1]

Have to agree with earlier post. 2 fouls to give with 30 seconds left an up 3. I really thought we would foul twice and make them start over with set up. We had just done that exact thing the previous trip. On to next yeat.

[WHOneedsSOX]

My only wish was they simply gave the ball to Grayson the last two minutes and told him to just play.

He pretty much did what he was supposed to though. 4 points and a near miss in 3 possessions. All Duke needed was one stop to win the game.

Or are you talking about OT?

Edit: Nevermind, thought you said you wished they didn't do that.

[WiJoe]

My only wish was they simply gave the ball to Grayson the last two minutes and told him to just play.

CLAP CLAP.

Sadly, he might have deferred.

I totally agree with your post. Should have put one on the bench and played anyone else.

[Steven43]

Lots of bad calls going against us. Duval played great, but his turnover trying to cut through 2 defenders was devastating.

Kansas abused our top weakness in the zone - the corner 3.

Doubt we would have beaten the experience and shooting of Villanova. Hoping Tre Jones is more of a consistent PG for us next year.

It was a pleasure watching Bagley and Carter this year.

Absolutely right. Would not have beaten Villanova. I’d rather lose a heartbreaker in the regional final than get kind of blown out in the Final Four.

[kako]

5 post game thoughts.

1. Carter was there, should have been a charge! It will go down in Duke lore as one of the terrible calls. Totally changed the game as he was really turning into a factor, but with him fouling out Duke had to turn to DeLaurier - no offensive presence.

2. I know Duval was hitting some shots, and I was praying his 3 to tie would go in. But it didn't. I do wish he had tried to find Bags, as I thought there was time... In the end, relying on his ability to hit a 3 was a low percentage thing. But I don't blame him. The rest of our shooters were so poor from outside, and he was having a better game shooting 3's than them. But the percentages were against him.

3. I wish Bagley had gotten the ball more often after their big fouled out. I know they were playing him tough, but a few more touches would have been good. He was a tremendous rebounder in the 2H.

4. Oh so close at the end of regulation... I liked the play as it had worked 2 times just before. Allen's shot bounced, bounced and rolled off. That will be a tough shot to rewatch. Hopefully I'll never see it again after highlights today.

5. The season ends sadly, and it hurts. I know Duke basketball means championships, and there were high expectations for this team. But I always think a S16 validates your season. When you are one of the 16 left, it says you are a factor. The E8 says your season was successful - you finish as a top 10 team. The FF would have been historic as another FF for Duke and K, and you're playing a 2 game tourney for a national championship... but it didn't happen. KU played well enough to beat us, and that's all you can really say. I just wish I could watch this team play longer, as the pieces were really coming together.

9F 9F 9F

[Troublemaker]

It would have been great to make another Final Four. But I really don’t think we would have gotten by Nova anyways. They are a level above everyone right now.

That's actually not comforting at all. You would absolutely take the Final Four every time, even if Nova ends up drubbing them by 30.

A Final Four makes this a great season. Instead, this was merely a very good season. And slightly disappointing.


O’Connell says hi.

It would've been crazy to play Alex over Trevon today. There really weren't good options to get him on the court. Plus, Alex has struggled in most of his recent appearances, Syracuse being the exception.

[tbyers11]

Carter airballing the jump hook with 36 secs left in regulation was HUGE. He wasn't even guarded that well. Just missed it.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Absolutely right. Would not have beaten Villanova. I’d rather lose a heartbreaker in the regional final than get kind of blown out in the Final Four.

I don't know about that. Duke always has a chance with their talent level.

[drummerdevil]

I will also point out that cities that end in Apolis are quite good for us.

We were going to make shirts that said San Antoniapolis if that shot had bounced properly.

[Reddevil]

Tough season due to the immense talent level, not being able to play man defense, losing 2 of 3 to krlyna, and losing the regional final in a game they should have won.

I hope next year's team can play tough m2m D, and shoot.

On to the Masters snd the NFL draft, etc.

[jipops]

O'Connell has scored zero points in the last five games.

True. But hard to score when you don’t play. We needed another shooter this season and K yanked the chain on Alex by February. He no longer had an opportunity to get in any flow the rest of the season and his confidence may have taken a hit.

Alex should be a fairly useful player next season, depending on if K feels like playing him. Though I expect we’ll have another round of defensive issues to deal with which could affect Alex’s role.

[Ian]

It was a decent season. Kinda had a feeling that Elite 8 was our ceiling because how we struggled all year in close games, wish I was wrong.

[bluenorth]

We will likely have 4 freshmen and 1 junior starting next year.

Probably, but I wonder if any of the starters (such as Trent) might decide that a second year would be beneficial. Wishful thinking.

[dukelifer]

That's actually not comforting at all. You would absolutely take the Final Four every time, even if Nova ends up drubbing them by 30.

A Final Four makes this a great season. Instead, this was merely a very good season. And slightly disappointing.



It would've been crazy to play Alex over Trevon today. There really weren't good options to get him on the court. Plus, Alex has struggled in most of his recent appearances, Syracuse being the exception.

This was a very good season- not a great one. Getting to a FF may be the bar for great for some schools- but for Duke great requires a championship. So getting there would have been somewhere between very good and great in my mind. Duke had their shot to win. If you want to be great- those shots have to drop.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Probably, but I wonder if any of the starters (such as Trent) might decide that a second year would be beneficial. Wishful thinking.

I doubt it unless any of them get bad reviews from scouts/GM's/NBA people. I think Carter would be the guy most likely to stay but even then it's probably at less than 10%. He seems to really love being in college.

[Ian]

Carter airballing the jump hook with 36 secs left in regulation was HUGE. He wasn't even guarded that well. Just missed it.

Carter played like a freshmen all game, that's what happens when you start 4 freshmen, there are going to be a few that can't deal with the pressure the first time they experience it.

[fgb]

Absolutely right. Would not have beaten Villanova. I’d rather lose a heartbreaker in the regional final than get kind of blown out in the Final Four.

disagree. i'd rather of spent the next 6 days thinking about our next game, rather than the next next 7 months.

[CoachJ10]

For all the valid critiques posters have had about us not executing...we had a chance to win this game.

One atrocious call by Ayers decided the outcome. It affected momentum, it affected the scoreboard, it affected personnel...it affected the outcome decidely.

And everyone in America knows it was a bad call.

Really a shame.

[jipops]

That's actually not comforting at all. You would absolutely take the Final Four every time, even if Nova ends up drubbing them by 30.

A Final Four makes this a great season. Instead, this was merely a very good season. And slightly disappointing.



It would've been crazy to play Alex over Trevon today. There really weren't good options to get him on the court. Plus, Alex has struggled in most of his recent appearances, Syracuse being the exception.

Yes, I’d take a Final Four drubbing over this. Most definitely.

Re: Alex, just pointing out there was another shooter on the roster. But K had long since taken him out of any significant role.

[dairedevil]

Despite the commentary, Duke stayed in the game. They had their chances and couldn’t capitalize. I’m sorry they lost and the season is over,but as I said in chat, I just don’t get as emotional over the one and done teams. I will probably never see Bagley, Carter, and the others play again. Wish them all the best in their career and life.

[dukelifer]

Carter played like a freshmen all game, that's what happens when you start 4 freshmen, there are going to be a few that can't deal with the pressure the first time they experience it.

Not all game- there were a couple of key minutes where he was a force.

[kako]

Jones should help some if he's the floor general like his brother is but as far as leadership goes, Duke really won't have any. Who's going to be captain? DeLaurier? He'll play 12-14 minutes tops unless he really develops his game.

I'm sure K will make the right choice. But given Bolden's step up in play, I wouldn't mind seeing him be captain. There might be two co-captains with DeLaurier.

[InSpades]

We got a good game from exactly 1 player (Duval) and almost won.

Way too many 3s. When we drove the ball the result was actually pretty good. When we took jump shots? Not so much.

Grayson and Gary never found their 3 point stroke... if they do we probably win going away the last 2 games (and have a good shot at the title).

The zone is sometimes tough to understand... we give up the middle a bit too much. It was definitely better than our man D ever was this year but... can't help but think it could've been even better.

The Grayson play at the end reminds me of Trajan against UConn. If Grayson isolation was a good play w/ 20 seconds left then why wasn't it used more the rest of the game? Should have gone w/ the double screen. They had 1 big man in the game, make him cover the ball and get it to the rim. Grayson almost made it though.

Tough season. Hard to see them lose w/ so much talent on the court but they never really put all that talent together. Hopefully next year's collection of talent can play together better.

'Nova would've been a great game... can't see them losing it now.

Good season Devils. Great career Grayson. Next season should be fun.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Probably, but I wonder if any of the starters (such as Trent) might decide that a second year would be beneficial. Wishful thinking.

Extremely wishful thinking.

It’s sad because when we lost a similar E8 game twenty years ago, the core of the team came back the next year and the Legend Of 1999 was born.

We won’t get that opportunity to see this team come back and dominate like they would.

[KandG]

Carter airballing the jump hook with 36 secs left in regulation was HUGE. He wasn't even guarded that well. Just missed it.

Didn't check in the in-game thread...was there any speculation at all that Carter was mildly concussed after the elbow he took that sent him to the bench? I'm sure nerves and the foul trouble were the primary reasons for his struggles, but on a couple of moves afterwards he didn't seem to have lift and he just seemed "off" for 90% of his time in the second half.

I'm sure I will do the usual rewind of all the ways this game could have turned in our favor (most of all not fouling when you had fouls to give before giving up the tying 3), but I always expected something like this was possible for this group, so for now I'm not crushed. Just disappointed.

[CDu]

Hey, I thought the quants said we were going to win. Now I can't trust math?

The quants said we were favored to win. Nobody said we were going to win. And we were about an inch from winning.

[WHOneedsSOX]

For all the valid critiques posters have had about us not executing...we had a chance to win this game.

One atrocious call by Ayers decided the outcome. It affected momentum, it affected the scoreboard, it affected personnel...it affected the outcome decidely.

And everyone in America knows it was a bad call.

Really a shame.

Wouldn't that have been Newman's 4th foul too? Or did he get his 4th after that?


Extremely wishful thinking.

It’s sad because when we lost a similar E8 game twenty years ago, the core of the team came back the next year and the Legend Of 1999 was born.

We won’t get that opportunity to see this team come back and dominate like they would.
Can you imagine if guys stuck around still? Bagley, Carter, Duval, and Trent as sophomores in college basketball? Scary, scary though.

[Buckeye Devil]

Why couldn't Duke figure out a way to defend the 3 all night? Newman, a guy who averages 13 ppg looked like a world beater.

Hard to believe that Duke lost against that team. Three point lead and the ball in regulation. Nobody to blame but themselves.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Didn't check in the in-game thread...was there any speculation at all that Carter was mildly concussed after the elbow he took that sent him to the bench? I'm sure nerves and the foul trouble were the primary reasons for his struggles, but on a couple of moves afterwards he didn't seem to have lift and he just seemed "off" for 90% of his time in the second half.

I'm sure I will do the usual rewind of all the ways this game could have turned in our favor (most of all not fouling when you had fouls to give before giving up the tying 3), but I always expected something like this was possible for this group, so for now I'm not crushed. Just disappointed.

If anything was bothering him, I’d say his achilles injury was the factor.

[kako]

True. But hard to score when you don’t play. We needed another shooter this season and K yanked the chain on Alex by February. He no longer had an opportunity to get in any flow the rest of the season and his confidence may have taken a hit.

Alex should be a fairly useful player next season, depending on if K feels like playing him. Though I expect we’ll have another round of defensive issues to deal with which could affect Alex’s role.

I agree with you that we needed a scorer off the bench. But AOC's D was poor, and that's usually why players don't get minutes under K. K was already playing a 7-man rotation in the tourney, which usually is his MO. Looked like AOC was 8th.

I hope he works on his defensive footwork and decision-making. As we will have another bunch of OAD's next year, he stands to play if he can work on his D.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Didn't check in the in-game thread...was there any speculation at all that Carter was mildly concussed after the elbow he took that sent him to the bench? I'm sure nerves and the foul trouble were the primary reasons for his struggles, but on a couple of moves afterwards he didn't seem to have lift and he just seemed "off" for 90% of his time in the second half.

I'm sure I will do the usual rewind of all the ways this game could have turned in our favor (most of all not fouling when you had fouls to give before giving up the tying 3), but I always expected something like this was possible for this group, so for now I'm not crushed. Just disappointed.

Wasn't mentioned in the game threat. Think Grant Hill mentioned it as a possibility during OT though.

[Bob Green]

...was there any speculation at all that Carter was mildly concussed after the elbow he took that sent him to the bench?

Anything is possible but I didn't notice any behavior which would indicate a concussion.

[NM Duke Fan]

Weaknesses came back to bite the team. Poor defense against the corner three and at times around the free throw line, and a frequent inability to feed Bagley efficiently and in a good spot, the most talented player on the team and in some ways the nation and yet underutilized.

Trevon overall had a good game. Allen was too passive or too low energy the first part of the game, and Carter was struggling to get into a rhythm. Overall the sum of the parts was not that synergistic, and yet such a good chance to win it in regulation, perhaps including fouling before the 3 was attempted, etc. Grayson's shot was so close, but Duval had been having the better game, and Bagley was very hard to stop when he used the rim, I would have preferred the higher percentages for the last play ...

[kako]

Probably, but I wonder if any of the starters (such as Trent) might decide that a second year would be beneficial. Wishful thinking.

I'm surprised the Stay-Or-Go thread hasn't started already. In any case, K seems to do a good job these days getting info on player's draft positions. I wish everyone who goes great success and $$$.

[pamtar]

Can’t wait to rely on 4 freshman again next year! I’m sure we’ll do great!

[fgb]

Despite the commentary, Duke stayed in the game. They had their chances and couldn’t capitalize. I’m sorry they lost and the season is over,but as I said in chat, I just don’t get as emotional over the one and done teams. I will probably never see Bagley, Carter, and the others play again. Wish them all the best in their career and life.

agree with the second part; never really been a fan of the nba. the players are exceptional, but oddly, i think their overall excellence dulls the game a bit. really have always preferred college ball, which has always seemed more of a coaches game. once players move on, they're more memories to me; espn nba highlights are mostly nostalgia trips to me.

that said, the loss sucks. it sucks. it sucks mostly because carter was basically stolen from the game; it felt like 2004 redux to me. we didn't play as well as we could have, but we were taken out at the knees in ot. it's odd to me, the number of folks here who seem to be minimizing the impact of a brazenly wrong call; it changed the outcome. carter in the game, with the ball, and a lead--vs carter out of the game, and trailing. not inconsequential.

[Duke76]

Can I vent about the refs? Because they stole this one from us. We were fouled repeatedly no calls on our offensive side, the WC charge in OT, and the reversed OOB call. If Grayson or Trent hit a couple more 3s even 10% below their avg it's not close. Head scratcher game from WC and we never seemed to get the ball to Bagley in position. I'd say hats off to KU but really it was Newman that just go hot, and we gave him too many open looks. If Grayon's shot at the end of regulation drops in on the 3rd revolution we are having a different conversation

how about one more made free throw in regulation?

[MB in MD]

Feel sad for Grayson, going out on a performance like that. I was sure that in a karmic kind of way that last shot was going to drop.

If it had, we'd all be jubilant but I think the Jayhawk faithful would be shaking their heads. Face it, they outplayed us almost every way possible: Shut down our bigs. Contested our 3s (yes, we shot badly but did anyone notice how much more wide open theirs were?). Destroyed us on the boards. Best anyone has attacked our zone this year. Took a Herculean effort from Trevon to even be in the game for a chance to win at the end.

That's why I don't care about the block call. The better team--and the better coach today--won. Congratulations to Kansas as well as to all our guys for a thrilling year.

[Jackson]

If you'd have told me we'd be out-rebounded by 15, that Bagley and Carter would have a combined 26 points, and Trent and Allen would shoot 4-19 from 3, I would have told you we lost by 20.

Don't know that I've ever seen a call impact a game so much. Block/charge is usually a bang-bang and tough to call, but that wasn't even close.

The only plus is I don't have to listen to these announcers next week.

Three point shooting was horrible the last two games. Grayson or Trent hit just one of those open threes they missed, this game doesn't ever make it to OT. Wonder if this is the end of the zone?

[ncexnyc]

Anything is possible but I didn't notice any behavior which would indicate a concussion.


What about the play where Duke was bringing the ball up court and Trevon had to motion to Carter to catch-up. He was either really gassed or something was wrong.

[Natty_B]

Can’t wait to rely on 4 freshman again next year! I’m sure we’ll do great!

If you’re upset about the Elite 8 and missing the Final 4 by inches then you need to find a new sport to like. Only one team doesn’t end their season in a loss.

[kako]

\

The Grayson play at the end reminds me of Trajan against UConn. If Grayson isolation was a good play w/ 20 seconds left then why wasn't it used more the rest of the game?


But Langdon didn't even get a shot off, so I don't see the comparison.

The two plays just before that play were the same ones, and Allen got 4 FTs out of them. I understand why K went to it again. It almost worked.

[Duke76]

We were up 3 with under 30 seconds left and only had 4 (maybe it was 5) team fouls. How do we give up a tying 3? You can be ultra aggressive on defense and foul if you need it.

you know going to man to man right there might have really changed the outcome....as kenny Smith hate to say it said...at some point in the game we need to go to man

[Troublemaker]

This was a very good season- not a great one. Getting to a FF may be the bar for great for some schools- but for Duke great requires a championship. So getting there would have been somewhere between very good and great in my mind. Duke had their shot to win. If you want to be great- those shots have to drop.

Agree to disagree on this. Any Final Four is a great season. We just frankly don't make Final Fours often enough to snub our nose at it.

So close today.

[ncexnyc]

Feel sad for Grayson, going out on a performance like that. I was sure that in a karmic kind of way that last shot was going to drop.

If it had, we'd all be jubilant but I think the Jayhawk faithful would be shaking their heads. Face it, they outplayed us almost every way possible: Shut down our bigs. Contested our 3s (yes, we shot badly but did anyone notice how much more wide open theirs were?). Destroyed us on the boards. Best anyone has attacked our zone this year. Took a Herculean effort from Trevon to even be in the game for a chance to win at the end.

That's why I don't care about the block call. The better team--and the better coach today--won. Congratulations to Kansas as well as to all our guys for a thrilling year.

Not buying the comment that KU attacked our zone better than anyone else all year. Newman hitting all those 3's was the difference. If he hits his average for the year we win. In big games you need a player to rise to the occasion. We really didn't have that today.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Bagley had 9 shot attempts? My goodness that's terrible.

[KandG]

What about the play where Duke was bringing the ball up court and Trevon had to motion to Carter to catch-up. He was either really gassed or something was wrong.

This is an excellent point. Genuinely thought that was odd at that point in the game. Carter really labored at the end of regulation and in OT. Earlier in the season, he was usually the one finishing everything inside and keeping rebounds alive in close games we were trying to finish off while the focus was on Bagley. (as noted elsewhere, it could also have been the achilles injury)

[CDu]

you know going to man to man right there might have really changed the outcome...as kenny Smith hate to say it said...at some point in the game we need to go to man

They would have torched us in man to man. Zone was our only hope. And for but an inch or two in regulation, the zone was enough. Allen’s shot just didn’t quite fall.

[dukelifer]

Feel sad for Grayson, going out on a performance like that. I was sure that in a karmic kind of way that last shot was going to drop.

If it had, we'd all be jubilant but I think the Jayhawk faithful would be shaking their heads. Face it, they outplayed us almost every way possible: Shut down our bigs. Contested our 3s (yes, we shot badly but did anyone notice how much more wide open theirs were?). Destroyed us on the boards. Best anyone has attacked our zone this year. Took a Herculean effort from Trevon to even be in the game for a chance to win at the end.

That's why I don't care about the block call. The better team--and the better coach today--won. Congratulations to Kansas as well as to all our guys for a thrilling year.

Kansas is a 1 seed with experience. They won the Big 12 that had 3 teams in the final 8. Bags had 16 and 10 and Carter had 10 while saddled with fouls. I would not call that they shut down the bigs. Duvall had 20 but Trent had 17- not sure either was Herculean. Duke played pretty well against a very good team. Duke had the lead with 36 secs to go. If they outplayed Duke in every way- they did a lousy job of showing it.

[rsvman]

Three point shooting was horrible the last two games. Grayson or Trent hit just one of those open threes they missed, this game doesn't ever make it to OT. Wonder if this is the end of the zone?

Non sequitur much?

Essentially you are saying that our offense was bad, and therefore we should change our defense?

[WHOneedsSOX]

you know going to man to man right there might have really changed the outcome...as kenny Smith hate to say it said...at some point in the game we need to go to man

Or not have Duval gamble for the steal and everyone matchup around the three point line.

[CDu]

Bagley had 9 shot attempts? My goodness that's terrible.

The consistent problem all season. We just never quite figured out how to maximize our use of Bagley. That may sound crazy given he is Duke’s all-time freshman scorer, but it is true.

[dukelifer]

Agree to disagree on this. Any Final Four is a great season. We just frankly don't make Final Fours often enough to snub our nose at it.

So close today.

1990 did not feel like a great year.

[Troublemaker]

Can’t wait to rely on 4 freshman again next year! I’m sure we’ll do great!

We've only had two seasons recently where we've relied heavily on 4 freshmen. One was a national champion and one was an in-and-out shot at the buzzer away from the Final Four.

It's really the teams that have too few freshmen that we should be concerned about.

[Messimorgan17]

agree with the second part; never really been a fan of the nba. the players are exceptional, but oddly, i think their overall excellence dulls the game a bit. really have always preferred college ball, which has always seemed more of a coaches game. once players move on, they're more memories to me; espn nba highlights are mostly nostalgia trips to me.

that said, the loss sucks. it sucks. it sucks mostly because carter was basically stolen from the game; it felt like 2004 redux to me. we didn't play as well as we could have, but we were taken out at the knees in ot. it's odd to me, the number of folks here who seem to be minimizing the impact of a brazenly wrong call; it changed the outcome. carter in the game, with the ball, and a lead--vs carter out of the game, and trailing. not inconsequential.

Agreed. At the end of the day despite it all we had chances and just couldn’t get it done.
However, that was a crucial call. For many many years during the K era, Duke haters complained that Duke always got the calls in the tourney.it seems that over the last few years, we don’t get the calls. Officials don’t want to seem to favor the blue devils. So do they go out of their way.

[lotusland]

Absolutely right. Would not have beaten Villanova. I’d rather lose a heartbreaker in the regional final than get kind of blown out in the Final Four.

Nope.

Final Four = Regional Champ=cutting down the net = Banner

[Duke76]

Only Bolden and Delaurier had fewer field goal attempts than Bagley. No excuse for that.

he passed up some shots he should have taken...I remember one where he was rolling to his left through the lane and passed up a hook or runner with his left hand for goodness sakes to pass it...think turnover late in regulation...they all played like freshmen.....alll the 3's seemed short, what does that tell you, we were just tight for some reason

[TampaDuke]

Tough loss. I'm perplexed by a few points:

Can't figure why K would put Carter back in the game with 8 minutes to go in the first half. The game wasn't out of hand and I thought Bolden was playing well.

I know this team had to play zone, but for a zone that was designed not to give up the three, we gave up a ton of open looks. Honestly, I felt like we had the opportunity to steal the game at the end of regulation, when Kansas really should have beaten us handily had they hit their open 3s.

I don't understand how that 4-1 zone is supposed to work, but it was an unmitigated disaster this game and last game. Get the ball behind your man and either hit an easy floater or lob for an alley oop. I've seen less alley oops in entire seasons than I've seen the last two games.

I love Grayson, but that killer instinct and reckless abandon that he played with for three seasons seemed to be missing most of this year. We never figured out how to maximize Grayson and Bagley playing together. Oh, what could have been.


The loss hurts, but the team was exciting. While next year's team will be vastly diffferent, we should be talented and I like the fact that the coaching staff appears willing to adjust more than it appears they would in the past.

[SoCalDukeFan]

It was a great game and its unfortunate that a team had to lose.

Self had Kansas very well prepared. Offensively they had a plan to attack the zone and defensively double teamed the scorers.

Kansas hit more big 3's then we did.

Grayson shot at the end of regulation could have gone in. Play had worked earlier.

No complaints. K is still the GOAT. Grayson had a great career and we don't win in 2015 without him. Kansas is very good team and its certainly no disgrace to lose to them. Only 8 teams make it to the elite 8 and K is now something like 12-3 in those games.

SoCal

[Steven43]

Feel sad for Grayson, going out on a performance like that. I was sure that in a karmic kind of way that last shot was going to drop.

If it had, we'd all be jubilant but I think the Jayhawk faithful would be shaking their heads. Face it, they outplayed us almost every way possible: Shut down our bigs. Contested our 3s (yes, we shot badly but did anyone notice how much more wide open theirs were?). Destroyed us on the boards. Best anyone has attacked our zone this year. Took a Herculean effort from Trevon to even be in the game for a chance to win at the end.

That's why I don't care about the block call. The better team--and the better coach today--won. Congratulations to Kansas as well as to all our guys for a thrilling year.
You know, I hate to admit it, but I think you’re correct about everything you wrote.

[Duke76]

For all the valid critiques posters have had about us not executing...we had a chance to win this game.

One atrocious call by Ayers decided the outcome. It affected momentum, it affected the scoreboard, it affected personnel...it affected the outcome decidely.

And everyone in America knows it was a bad call.

Really a shame.

that guy is an acc ref isn't he? i cringe when I seem him and the other guy with a crew cut reddish blond hair

[dyedwab]

1990 did not feel like a great year.

Losing to Vegas wasn't, but beat Arkansas to get to Monday night? After losing in the Semis the previous 2 years? That was one of the most joyful celebrations of a basketball win I've ever experienced....

[Messimorgan17]

1990 did not feel like a great year.

But the lessons learned led to back to back. As someone else said, the difference is with one and domes there are no lessons learned, no progression,

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Refs were terrible, but both ways. Lots of iffy decisions both ways. Ours just came later.

Tough game against a great team. Sorry to see our season end. Goodbye starters... I wish you well in your future endeavors.

[Troublemaker]

1990 did not feel like a great year.

I disagree but at least I could understand that feeling. At that point in time, we had gone to 4 FFs in 5 years and were just blown out by UNLV.

But look at us now. We've only been to 4 FFs since the turn of the century. Final Fours just come along too infrequently to not be cherished.

[lotusland]

Carter played like a freshmen all game, that's what happens when you start 4 freshmen, there are going to be a few that can't deal with the pressure the first time they experience it.

Carter was not playing like freshman when he fouled out. Most of the game yes but he had it going at the end.

[CDu]

Tough loss. I'm perplexed by a few points:

Can't figure why K would put Carter back in the game with 8 minutes to go in the first half. The game wasn't out of hand and I thought Bolden was playing well.

I know this team had to play zone, but for a zone that was designed not to give up the three, we gave up a ton of open looks. Honestly, I felt like we had the opportunity to steal the game at the end of regulation, when Kansas really should have beaten us handily had they hit their open 3s.

I don't understand how that 4-1 zone is supposed to work, but it was an unmitigated disaster this game and last game. Get the ball behind your man and either hit an easy floater or lob for an alley oop. I've seen less alley oops in entire seasons than I've seen the last two games.

I love Grayson, but that killer instinct and reckless abandon that he played with for three seasons seemed to be missing most of this year. We never figured out how to maximize Grayson and Bagley playing together. Oh, what could have been.


The loss hurts, but the team was exciting. While next year's team will be vastly diffferent, we should be talented and I like the fact that the coaching staff appears willing to adjust more than it appears they would in the past.

The defense was not an unmitigated disaster in either game. Tonight we held a top-5 offense to 72 points in 69 seconds of regulation. That is fantastic. We gave up a few long 3s by one of the best shooting teams in the country.

Sometimes that happens. But the defense was far from bad today.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I set the over/under on turnovers at eleven to win. We hit eleven, in overtime, so I admit I was wrong.

I couldn't have imagined our bigs being outplayed on the boards like that.

[Jackson]

Non sequitur much?

Essentially you are saying that our offense was bad, and therefore we should change our defense?

Random thoughts come out at times such as this. I don't think our offense was bad. Two straight games we missed shots that normally we make especially with our two best shooters. As for the zone, it just seems ill-fitting, but the past two seasons have struggled in man. I expect next year may be more of the same with five new starters, four of which will be new to Duke.

[devildeac]

32-47

7-29

roger ayres

[Utley]

The negativity here is inane. We played a game to be proud of against one of the best teams in basketball and if the ball bounced the other way we win.

Kedsy does a great job highlighting that winning in the tourney is a combo of good play and good luck - and the ball didn’t bounce our way today.

It s heartbreaking to lose a close game like this but it doesn’t mean we didn’t play well and shouldn’t be proud.

[dukelifer]

But the lessons learned led to back to back. As someone else said, the difference is with one and domes there are no lessons learned, no progression,

Also true for MOST programs without one and dones.

[TampaDuke]

It was a great game and its unfortunate that a team had to lose.

Self had Kansas very well prepared. Offensively they had a plan to attack the zone and defensively double teamed the scorers.

Kansas hit more big 3's then we did.

Grayson shot at the end of regulation could have gone in. Play had worked earlier.

No complaints. K is still the GOAT. Grayson had a great career and we don't win in 2015 without him. Kansas is very good team and its certainly no disgrace to lose to them. Only 8 teams make it to the elite 8 and K is now something like 12-3 in those games.

SoCal

I realize that they had to get by Clemson, but Kansas also lucked into the scenario where they had a week to game plan for this zone defense. They didn't know if it would be us or Syracuse, but at least they knew what defense they'd be facing if they beat Clemson. That's obviously entirely based on luck of the draw, but I wonder how much that might have helped Kansas' preparation this week, if any.

[WHOneedsSOX]

The negativity here is inane. We played a game to be proud of against one of the best teams in basketball and if the ball bounced the other way we win.

Kedsy does a great job highlighting that winning in the tourney is a combo of good play and good luck - and the ball didn’t bounce our way today.

It s heartbreaking to lose a close game like this but it doesn’t mean we didn’t play well and shouldn’t be proud.

The NCAA tournament really is a crazy thing. Duke plays Kansas 7 times and it probably comes down to that 7th game. Unfortunately Kansas made the bigger plays when they needed to and Duke fell just short.

[scottdude8]

Anyone watch the presser? Anything of particular interest?

[DarkstarWahoo]

Maybe I’m the wrong guy to ask this, but are you guys bothered that Bagley didn’t get force-fed the ball after Azubuike went out? He had Mykhailiuk (should have been a Hoo) on him, and that’s a matchup you have to exploit. Obviously that goes away once you had to start shooting 3s, but I questioned how little he was getting the ball.

Apologies if K covered this in the postgame. I turned off the TV as quickly as possible when the game ended to avoid any risk of having to explain to my sons who Stormy Daniels is.

[dukelifer]

I disagree but at least I could understand that feeling. At that point in time, we had gone to 4 FFs in 5 years and were just blown out by UNLV.

But look at us now. We've only been to 4 FFs since the turn of the century. Final Fours just come along too infrequently to not be cherished.

I agree they are rare- but do they make a "great" season? Perhaps- I am not there - I think a Regular Season or ACC Championship and a FF does it. I need a championship somewhere to make it great.

[Ian]

Carter was not playing like freshman when he fouled out. Most of the game yes but he had it going at the end.

If he made one more play in regulation we wouldn't need to worry OT. That said, I'm not blaming him for the loss. We were inexperienced and Kansas was not, that was the difference. One can't learn to deal with the pressure until one has experienced it, and freshmen who haven't can't be faulted for not being prepared to handle something they've never experienced. If there were a 2nd time around for him I'm sure he'd do a whole lot better, unfortunately that won't happen.

[Buckeye Devil]

I am not sure that Self had the greatest game plan. They seemed to do the same thing over and over again. Get the ball to the middle, run Newman along the baseline, hit a mildly contested 3, etc. They rebounded well and I thought played decent defense. Duke never seemed to figure out how to defend them or get into a good flow offensively. And the nagging question to me is "Why?"

[Native]

1. Put me in the same camp as those perplexed as to why Javin was put in instead of Bolden when Carter went out. Not a slight on Javin, but I thought Bolden logged some really nice minutes early in the game. Would have liked to see him get more time.

2. I feel like this team really, really missed one Luke Kennard tonight. Perimeter shooting has always been a bugaboo of this year's team; to use a Bilas-ism, if we had made just one more shot...

3. Good on Carter for coming back in and playing well with four fouls. You could tell when he checked out after his fourth that he looked a bit shaken. He made the most of his last minutes and sparked the key run that took us down to the wire. I think he could have a long career in the NBA if he ends up with the right team.

4. Some posters pointed out the parallels between this year's team and last year's Cheat squad: one team loses to the other in the ACCT semifinal, then goes on to lose in the second round to a maroon-colored 7-seed from the SEC. Had Grayson's shot gone in, that would have been an even more eerie parallel to the Malik Monk-Luke Maye sequence that ended last year's Elite Eight.

5. We were in trouble the minute Self ran that first baseline screen to free up Newman in the corner. The weakness of our zone was not always the middle, but the corners as well. Self did a great coaching job of identifying that weakness and game planning for it.

6. For some of the scorn he gets from certain pockets of the Duke fanbase — mostly on other forums — I feel that Duval really improved a ton this season. He still has a lot of room to grow, but his development was evident today. We get clobbered without him on the floor for us.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I am not sure that Self had the greatest game plan. They seemed to do the same thing over and over again. Get the ball to the middle, run Newman along the baseline, hit a mildly contested 3, etc. They rebounded well and I thought played decent defense. Duke never seemed to figure out how to defend them or get into a good flow offensively. And the nagging question to me is "Why?"

Self watched the UNC game and played it well. Not as well as Roy, but well enough to keep our D off balance.

[rsvman]

The negativity here is inane. We played a game to be proud of against one of the best teams in basketball and if the ball bounced the other way we win.

Kedsy does a great job highlighting that winning in the tourney is a combo of good play and good luck - and the ball didn’t bounce our way today.

It s heartbreaking to lose a close game like this but it doesn’t mean we didn’t play well and shouldn’t be proud.

Agreed, but there are just so many what ifs. We're venting. We just lost an overtime game that we almost won that would've allowed us to be in the Final Four and given us a chance to win the tournament. C'mon, man.

What if: 1) Trent had made anywhere near his season average from three. I mean, I counted two airballs from him. I watched every game all season and didn't see any airballs at all until this game (maybe one?).
2) Grayson had made anywhere near his season average from three.
3) Grayson hadn't tried to throw the ball to Carter when Bagley was wide open in the overtime.
4) Trevon hadn't gone for the steal right before the game-tying three.
5) Carter hadn't been in foul trouble and on the bench for most of the game.
6) We had gotten the ball to Trent or Duval instead of Grayson at the end of regulation.
7) The ref would've called it a charge.
8) Bagley would've been able to hold onto that rebound right before Kansas's last possession in regulation.
9) Newman would've shot his season average from three.

And that's just off the top of my head and not even trying hard. Any one of those things goes our way and we're in the Final Four. And yes, I'm aware that it didn't happen and that the past can't be changed.

[WVDUKEFAN]

Self watched the UNC game and played it well. Not as well as Roy, but well enough to keep our D off balance.

They forced us to make 3s, which we didn't do.

[ipatent]

I realize that they had to get by Clemson, but Kansas also lucked into the scenario where they had a week to game plan for this zone defense. They didn't know if it would be us or Syracuse, but at least they knew what defense they'd be facing if they beat Clemson. That's obviously entirely based on luck of the draw, but I wonder how much that might have helped Kansas' preparation this week, if any.

The zone did fine, they had 17 turnovers. Just made some shots. They would have made more against the man.

[TampaDuke]

The defense was not an unmitigated disaster in either game. Tonight we held a top-5 offense to 72 points in 69 seconds of regulation. That is fantastic. We gave up a few long 3s by one of the best shooting teams in the country.

Sometimes that happens. But the defense was far from bad today.

I disagree. They missed a huge amount of uncontested shots. Stats-wise, we can chalk that up to defense, but I think that misses the forest for the trees. To use a poker analogy, calling all-in on a small inside straight draw is almost always a bad call, even if you hit it.

Additionally, my guess, without re-watching, is that our defense was also the reason behind our rebounding deficiency.

Also, I'm not trying to get into a debate, but my comment was that the 4-1 zone was a disaster. Admittedly, our regular zone was much better.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Funnily enough after watching Kansas vs Clemson and not knowing anything about them other than Graham, I thought Newman would be the one Duke would have to stop. Turns out he's the one that carried the offense for Kansas today. Graham didn't really do anything other than make a couple early 3's. Duval pretty much torched him and he didn't score too much and made a few nice passes but didn't do a whole lot (I realize he did end up leading them with 6 assists though).

[Devilwin]

That bad call. The horrid shooting % of our guards. The porous defense. Failure to take advantage inside. Pick your poison.

[WiJoe]

Anyone watch the presser? Anything of particular interest?

the lack of red eyes for K, Grayson or Marvin stood out to me

[TampaDuke]

The zone did fine, they had 17 turnovers. Just made some shots. They would have made more against the man.

No doubt. I was and am completely on board with the zone, just not the tweak we saw the last two games with Bagley playing out on the three point line.

[cruxer]

With the exception of that bizarre 1-3-1 and the gamble for the steal that gave up the game tying 3, I don't think we were to bad defending the 3. We weren't as good in OT but I chalk that up to Newman getting hot. Unfortunately I think that 4-1 looking zone we used to hinder the 3 really hurt us on the defensive boards.

I didn't mind our 3s that came out of the offense, but a few times we just came down and chucked one up and that drove me crazy.

[kako]

I agree they are rare- but do they make a "great" season? Perhaps- I am not there - I think a Regular Season or ACC Championship and a FF does it. I need a championship somewhere to make it great.

No offense to anyone reading this string, but I think this is poTAto, poTOHto. FFs are rare, and they get counted in sportsyak and NCAA annals. They don't call it the Road to the Championship, they call it the Road to the Final Four. Making the FF is like making the Super Bowl. You'd rather get there and lose than not get there. And you know the teams that have never made the Super Bowl, as they get talked about all the time. And they talk about coaches and teams who have never made the FF. So making the FF is a historic accomplishment.

That being said, banners and championships (though to me not the regular season championship) do mark a season. State is my 2nd favorite ACC team, but hanging banners for every tourney isn't going to fly in Cameron. Banners stand the true test of time at Duke. But to get a banner, one must get to the FF. Thus my poTAYto poTATo lead...

[Ballboy1998]

Lost it in regulation largely because we failed on the boards (didn't help having Carter on the bench with foul trouble). Ayers took care of the overtime with one of the worst block/charge calls of all time.

Thank you to Grayson and the rest of the team on a fun ride.

[cruxer]

That bad call. The horrid shooting % of our guards. The porous defense. Failure to take advantage inside. Pick your poison.

Somebody smarter than me needs to do the #s because I don't think the d was horrendous. We could have rebounded on the defensive end better, but we consistently contested 3 point shots. KU certainly hit some tough ones but they missed a bunch. We conceded the mid-range shots but that seemed like strategy. We turned them over a lot with active defense, not even including the crazy out of bounds that got overturned after the 10 minute review.

[PSM]

I went to most every home game as a student for 7 years.
Have been to many more home games and tournament games since.
Have watched about every game on TV.
I accept that we will lose games and don’t need wins to make my life good.
I DO feel sad about the fact that we now have to rebuild a team from scratch again,
and it’s starting to feel like we as fans and supporters are simply watching an NBA tryout program, and we won’t be able to watch this group stay and get better.
I wonder how long folks will donate $7500+ a year for the privilege of buying season tickets to watch this annual turnover of players. Maybe the NBA will have to change their rules, or other changes to come will
make college basketball seem normal again for Duke. Right now, I’m not too excited about a new group getting started and trying to learn how to play together. It’s fairly expensive in time and money for everybody.
I wonder if recruiting players who will stay only one year is still the way to go. It’s not as much fun as in the days when players would stay at least 3 years, or even stay to graduate. (Thanks Grayson...).
Ok. I’m done.

[WHOneedsSOX]

For what it's worth, Bagley said he isn't thinking about his decision about going to the NBA yet. But I think it's more of a lock he goes pro than Virginia was over UMBC.

[scottdude8]

Everyone seems to be circling around the same point, which underlies for me why this was a simultaneously exciting/frustrating season: even when we had a lot go against us (shooting below average from 3 despite open looks, the Carter foul trouble/bad foul out, playing in a hostile environment), this team STILL took the No. 1 seed in our bracket to OT (and was an inch away from winning it before that). I felt the same way after the ACC Tourney loss to UNC. We were so uniquely talented that even when we played below average, we were still in coin-flip games against the best teams in the country.

A lot of that obviously can be chalked up to not having the killer instinct or experience to finish. But in the NCAA tourney, luck eventually comes into play. You have to put yourself in a position that you can win every game, and then hope that you win the coin-flip game that is eventually gonna come your way. Unfortunately this year it just seems like the coin never flipped our way.

[duke79]

Yea...goes without saying...this was a tough loss. I did not have a good feeling before the game started and I thought we played sloppedly for much of the game. I think we were lucky to be in the lead at the end of the first half and when we went down by 7 at the start of the second half, I thought the game might be over. But I give the Duke kids a LOT of credit for hanging tough and coming back. Frankly, we had the game won when we were up by three AND possession of the ball with about a minute to play. We should have won the game in regulation. I think we had to set up a better final shot and should have never allowed Kansas to shoot a three on their next possession. Bad mistake. And then the final possession of regulation play seemed chaotic to me. I'm surprised K didn't call a time out at that point, to give the players a short rest and calm down and set up a better play. Yea, that call on Carter in OT was terrible and MAY have cost us the game (but who really knows?). I don't know about anyone else on this board but I'm totally on board for Loyola Chicago and Sister Jean - you have to love her!

[Jackson]

For what it's worth, Bagley said he isn't thinking about his decision about going to the NBA yet. But I think it's more of a lock he goes pro than Virginia was over UMBC.

Our entire starting lineup is gone. We have Bolden (hopefully), DeLaurier, O'Connell, Vrank, Robinson, Goldwire to mix with the next set of one and dones.

[dukelifer]

No offense to anyone reading this string, but I think this is poTAto, poTOHto. FFs are rare, and they get counted in sportsyak and NCAA annals. They don't call it the Road to the Championship, they call it the Road to the Final Four. Making the FF is like making the Super Bowl. You'd rather get there and lose than not get there. And you know the teams that have never made the Super Bowl, as they get talked about all the time. And they talk about coaches and teams who have never made the FF. So making the FF is a historic accomplishment.

That being said, banners and championships (though to me not the regular season championship) do mark a season. State is my 2nd favorite ACC team, but hanging banners for every tourney isn't going to fly in Cameron. Banners stand the true test of time at Duke. But to get a banner, one must get to the FF. Thus my poTAYto poTATo lead...

Yes- FF's are are rare and for certain programs it is a big deal. But you cannot convince me that Syracuse has a great season in 2015-2016 despite getting to a FF. At best they had a great tourney run.

[kako]

the lack of red eyes for K, Grayson or Marvin stood out to me

I noticed that as well, but I think it's explainable.

K - he's been in this spot before. He's not crying over a tourney loss. I've never seen him cry in a presser.
Bagley - he wasn't around long enough to have his whole heart and soul in this. Just a reality with OADs.
Allen - yeah, he's a senior... and you might expect it. But he won as a frosh, and he hasn't been chasing a title for 4 years. I noticed Berry wasn't crying either at his postgame... Anyway, I assume he did cry... he just didn't do it in public. We don't need to see him cry.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Our entire starting lineup is gone. We have Bolden (hopefully), DeLaurier, O'Connell, Vrank, Robinson, Goldwire to mix with the next set of one and dones.

Yeah, I agree. I'd be shocked if any of them returned. Is Trent really expected to go in the first round? Doesn't seem to do anything exceptionally well to warrant a first round pick to me. Solid player but he just doesn't seem to have the upside of someone like Duval.

[lotusland]

It thought shooting was the difference. Duke didn’t even need to shoot their average from deep to win. They just weren’t falling and Newman was on fire. The rebounding deficit was also a factor. I thought Bags played pretty good D in our zone but, in doing so, he was pulled away from the basket too often. Congrats to KU. They deserved to win.

I thought shooting would be a weakness for this team but I didn’t think GA would struggle as much as he has the past couple of games and on the season as a whole. I think Grayson has improved his PG skills a great deal since last year but I also think his shooting and scoring suffered as a result.

I thought K did a better job playing the bench this year. Bolden, Jav, Alex, J Gold and Jack all return (hopefully) having played meaningful minutes this year. Looking forward to seeing those guys come back better next year along with senior Vrank.

Best of luck to all the NBA guys and especially GA our only senior. Would have loved to see him hang another banner and his jersey but wasn’t meant to be. I’m going to miss watching him play.

[Ian]

Our entire starting lineup is gone. We have Bolden (hopefully), DeLaurier, O'Connell, Vrank, Robinson, Goldwire to mix with the next set of one and dones.

That's what bothers me about the loss. the loss itself I'm okay with, we lost a close game that could have gone either way. But it's just a very empty feeling knowing we have to hit the reset button again this off season. No sense of progression and moving closer to the finish line to hold on to as something accomplished this year. It's back to square one again.

[ipatent]

the lack of red eyes for K, Grayson or Marvin stood out to me

Marvin was wiping his eyes with a towel.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxo_JTeI7dI

[Kfanarmy]

Biggest question for me: why let them shoot a three to tie the game. I just don't believe that was the best thing to do. I foul till the team has six, then give up a 2 rather than a three...probably go man just to encourage a 2

[cruxer]

....it’s starting to feel like we as fans and supporters are simply watching an NBA tryout program, and we won’t be able to watch this group stay and get better.
...
I wonder if recruiting players who will stay only one year is still the way to go. It’s not as much fun as in the days when players would stay at least 3 years, or even stay to graduate. (Thanks Grayson...).
Ok. I’m done.

Do you think you'd feel better about this if we'd won the championship?

I dunno but if you want to watch the development of a team with players who don't have NBA aspirations, there are plenty of D2/3 programs. I don't think we're recruiting any different than we ever have, it's just that we now win more top players! Would you rather we miss on more?

Guys mostly (thanks Grayson!) go when the NBA is ready to take them. Asking for any other setup seems unfair to them.

[uh_no]

Biggest question for me: why let them shoot a three to tie the game. I just don't believe that was the best thing to do. I foul till the team has six, then give up a 2 rather than a three...probably go man just to encourage a 2

I thought about that. concern is if they make 2, then you have to score, or they get the ball back with a chance to win. better to have the ball with a chance to win yourselves and a full shot clock.

so ultimately answer was "because there was too much time left"

[kako]

Yes- FF's are are rare and for certain programs it is a big deal. But you cannot convince me that Syracuse has a great season in 2015-2016 despite getting to a FF. At best they had a great tourney run.

If you want to measure Duke on only national championships, that's OK - it's your option. I measure Duke on ACC tourney titles, FFs and national championships. I would have liked to get to San Antonio.

[WHOneedsSOX]

I noticed that as well, but I think it's explainable.

K - he's been in this spot before. He's not crying over a tourney loss. I've never seen him cry in a presser.
Bagley - he wasn't around long enough to have his whole heart and soul in this. Just a reality with OADs.
Allen - yeah, he's a senior... and you might expect it. But he won as a frosh, and he hasn't been chasing a title for 4 years. I noticed Berry wasn't crying either at his postgame... Anyway, I assume he did cry... he just didn't do it in public. We don't need to see him cry.

Allen's eyes definitely looked like they had just finished crying. Definitely looked watery and a bit red.

[Jackson]

Yeah, I agree. I'd be shocked if any of them returned. Is Trent really expected to go in the first round? Doesn't seem to do anything exceptionally well to warrant a first round pick to me. Solid player but he just doesn't seem to have the upside of someone like Duval.

I don't know if Trent or Duval, or Grayson for that matter are first rounders...or even get drafted at all. I can't see Duval or Trent coming back and coming off the bench. Duval won't start over Jones. Would Trent start over RJ or Cam? I really hope Bolden returns. Him along with Javin and AOC and even Jack White could be a really nice foundation to go along with the 5 stars. Only basketball I care about watching now is the McDonalds and Jordan Brand All Star games.

[dukelifer]

If you want to measure Duke on only national championships, that's OK - it's your option. I measure Duke on ACC tourney titles, FFs and national championships. I would have liked to get to San Antonio.

I measure Duke by championships (ACC or National). The entire point of this was whether getting to a FF absent a championship makes a GREAT season. For me you need a championship (ACC or National) somewhere in the season to rise to great.

[duke79]

I went to most every home game as a student for 7 years.
Have been to many more home games and tournament games since.
Have watched about every game on TV.
I accept that we will lose games and don’t need wins to make my life good.
I DO feel sad about the fact that we now have to rebuild a team from scratch again,
and it’s starting to feel like we as fans and supporters are simply watching an NBA tryout program, and we won’t be able to watch this group stay and get better.
I wonder how long folks will donate $7500+ a year for the privilege of buying season tickets to watch this annual turnover of players. Maybe the NBA will have to change their rules, or other changes to come will
make college basketball seem normal again for Duke. Right now, I’m not too excited about a new group getting started and trying to learn how to play together. It’s fairly expensive in time and money for everybody.
I wonder if recruiting players who will stay only one year is still the way to go. It’s not as much fun as in the days when players would stay at least 3 years, or even stay to graduate. (Thanks Grayson...).
Ok. I’m done.

Yea, I understand where you're coming from. I know we have had this discussion before on this board but I'm still not convinced that recruiting three, four or five OAD's ever year is the best strategy for building a championship team. I realize we won a NC a few years ago with three OAD's but I wonder if that was a fluke? From a coaching standpoint, it has to be hard to start from scratch every year and try to mold a cohesive team in four or five months.

[TampaDuke]

It thought shooting was the difference. Duke didn’t even need to shoot their average from deep to win. They just weren’t falling and Newman was on fire.

FWIW, percentagewise, Newman shot his season average on 3s and less than his season average overall. He also shot much better percentages in the previous two tourney games. I'm disappointed in the loss, but I think we're not giving Newman enough credit. His shooting wasn't a fluke. He's a very good player.

[Utley]

Our second half adjustment to the 1-3-1 really bit us. We lost that first 4-5 minutes by 10. I think if K had one do over it would be that

[Buckeye Devil]

FWIW, percentagewise, Newman shot his season average on 3s and less than his season average overall. He also shot much better percentages in the previous two tourney games. I'm disappointed in the loss, but I think we're not giving Newman enough credit. His shooting wasn't a fluke. He's a very good player.

He got 30. He averaged 13 PPG. He looked like a world beater. Not saying you are wrong but he isn't an All-American or anything like that.

[Saratoga2]

Yeah, I agree. I'd be shocked if any of them returned. Is Trent really expected to go in the first round? Doesn't seem to do anything exceptionally well to warrant a first round pick to me. Solid player but he just doesn't seem to have the upside of someone like Duval.

I guess I am one of the few who thought Gary played a good game tonight even though he was missing from the 3 pt line.

[Bluedog]

It's a game of inches.... Sucks to be on the losing end when it's so close, but that's sports. Probably the best/most entertaining game of the tournament if you like a back and forth affair with two high quality teams going at it. Bummed. That shot was SO close. I'm sure the players are taking it harder than us fans though. Glad they fought hard and represented well, just needed one more thing to go our way and it didn't.

[Troublemaker]

I measure Duke by championships (ACC or National). The entire point of this was whether getting to a FF absent a championship makes a GREAT season. For me you need a championship (ACC or National) somewhere in the season to rise to great.

A Final Four is a regional championship, and we hang a banner for it. IMO, it's much better than a conference championship.

Alas, we did not get either.

[kako]

I measure Duke by championships (ACC or National). The entire point of this was whether getting to a FF absent a championship makes a GREAT season. For me you need a championship (ACC or National) somewhere in the season to rise to great.

That's cool. It all depends on a person's definition of "great". Everyone is entitled to their own.

[jgehtland]

the lack of red eyes for K, Grayson or Marvin stood out to me

Did you watch Grayson’s senior night speech? How about the last ten seconds of the game when Bagley was stooped in half trying to pull himself together? Carter with a towel over his head?

Man, it’s ok to be sad the team lost, but questioning the heart, commitment or desire of these kids? Gimme a break.

[dukelifer]

Yea, I understand where you're coming from. I know we have had this discussion before on this board but I'm still not convinced that recruiting three, four or five OAD's ever year is the best strategy for building a championship team. I realize we won a NC a few years ago with three OAD's but I wonder if that was a fluke? From a coaching standpoint, it has to be hard to start from scratch every year and try to mold a cohesive team in four or five months.
Duke lost Kennard- a two and done- Jackson (who if he stayed would have missed the season with bum foot), and Giles- who barely played and was out all year in the pros. Bolden- thought to be a sure one and done- stayed and will likely stay another. Delaurier will be back. AOC will be back. There is a chance Trent may want to build his stock. That is three or four guys to build a team around. That is what non-one and done talent looks like. It could take while to build a championship team with that strategy and you still by lose in the round of 64. You have to be lucky to make a deep run. One off night and you are back to the drawing board.

[ChillinDuke]

That ball was halfway down. And we didn't have it in OT.

Man. What a game.

- Chillin

[Jackson]

Our second half adjustment to the 1-3-1 really bit us. We lost that first 4-5 minutes by 10. I think if K had one do over it would be that

Agreed. The time period until the media timeout was painful. It felt like they got whatever they wanted and we had to work so hard just to get a decent shot. I am so conflicted about the zone defense overall.

[dudog84]

I went to most every home game as a student for 7 years.
Have been to many more home games and tournament games since.
Have watched about every game on TV.
I accept that we will lose games and don’t need wins to make my life good.
I DO feel sad about the fact that we now have to rebuild a team from scratch again,
and it’s starting to feel like we as fans and supporters are simply watching an NBA tryout program, and we won’t be able to watch this group stay and get better.
I wonder how long folks will donate $7500+ a year for the privilege of buying season tickets to watch this annual turnover of players. Maybe the NBA will have to change their rules, or other changes to come will
make college basketball seem normal again for Duke. Right now, I’m not too excited about a new group getting started and trying to learn how to play together. It’s fairly expensive in time and money for everybody.
I wonder if recruiting players who will stay only one year is still the way to go. It’s not as much fun as in the days when players would stay at least 3 years, or even stay to graduate. (Thanks Grayson...).
Ok. I’m done.

Ah, the 7-year plan. :rolleyes::D (sorry dude) (I'm assuming that's a graduate degree, but it really doesn't matter one way or the other, just messin' with ya)

I've never liked the OAD plan for Duke. Nothing against the kids, they seem great, and they should be able to go and make money whenever they want (even out of high school). But we're stuck with this as long as K is around...and I figure he's earned the right to do what he wants. But I think of Duke as more than just a basketball factory. I'm hoping the administration tells the next coach it's gonna be different moving forward. But I'm not holding my breath on that.

I really miss watching the kids grow and 'getting to know' them. I just noticed with my earlier post that I refer to the men by their last names (and almost mixed in Grayson instead of Allen), but when I post about the women's team I use their first names. I feel like I know them somehow. And I miss that about our men's team.

Best of luck in their futures to all.

[TampaDuke]

Allen's eyes definitely looked like they had just finished crying. Definitely looked watery and a bit red.

Yeah, given how we're all feeling right now, I think it's safe to say that every player and coach is feeling a whole lot worse. That includes the OADs. Whether they show it publicly or not, I don't think there's any reason to question their heart or disappointment.

Lest my venting be misconstrued, let me also add that I'm incredibly proud of this team. It was a fun ride this season.

[cptnflash]

I thought about that. concern is if they make 2, then you have to score, or they get the ball back with a chance to win. better to have the ball with a chance to win yourselves and a full shot clock.

so ultimately answer was "because there was too much time left"

There were 27 seconds left in regulation when Mykhailiuk hit the 3. And I’m pretty sure we were in the double bonus. So in this context “then you have to score” really just means you have to inbound the ball to Grayson or Gary and expect that they make their free throws.

I thought Coach K made two fairly significant tactical errors in this game. One was not subbing Wendell back out for offense/defense on the dead ball after he came back in with 2 fouls in the first half. And the second was not fouling until Kansas was in the 1 and 1 when we had a 3 point lead and fouls to give at the end of regulation.

[weezie]

Did you watch Grayson’s senior night speech? How about the last ten seconds of the game when Bagley was stooped in half trying to pull himself together? Carter with a towel over his head?

Man, it’s ok to be sad the team lost, but questioning the heart, commitment or desire of these kids? Gimme a break.

Amen brother. We think we know these young men but we know next to nothing about their real lives, their hearts and their dreams.

Come on folks, show some compassion and if you can't find that, show some class.

[rsvman]

I measure Duke by championships (ACC or National). The entire point of this was whether getting to a FF absent a championship makes a GREAT season. For me you need a championship (ACC or National) somewhere in the season to rise to great.

What you are apparently missing here is that getting to the Final Four IS a championship. You are the champion of the regional. That's why they cut down the nets and hang a banner.

[Jackson]

Duke lost Kennard- a two and done- Jackson (who if he stayed would have missed the season with bum foot), and Giles- who barely played and was out all year in the pros. Bolden- thought to be a sure one and done- stayed and will likely stay another. Delaurier will be back. AOC will be back. There is a chance Trent may want to build his stock. That is three or four guys to build a team around. That is what non-one and done talent looks like. It could take while to build a championship team with that strategy and you still by lose in the round of 64. You have to be lucky to make a deep run. One off night and you are back to the drawing board.

I have thought alot this year about what what have happened had Frank Jackson come back. Giles was never physically ready and may not be for another year. I don't see Trent staying. RJ and Cam will take so many minutes from him. This one and one thing is a double edged sword.

[ncexnyc]

I see this thread is slowly trending towards the recurring debate about OAD players. I'm sorry ladies and gentlemen, but we were a fraction of an inch away from a trip to the Final Four and all that KU experience wouldn't have meant jack.

Yes, I love seeing a kid develop from a freshman to a senior and feel like it's similar to watching a child of my own grow up, but I've also learned to live with the current landscape of college basketball. Who can blame a kid for leaving with the obscene amount of money being thrown their way? I certainly don't.

I think we've found something with the zone defense and I wouldn't be surprised to see us utilize it next season and I also wouldn't be surprised to see Calamari give it a shot a UK as well.

I also don't believe 2015, can be called a fluke. As I'd rather call last year a fluke, with all the injuries we had, especially the injury to Giles, who could have had a season like MBIII had this year had he played to his HS level. I'd much rather have these talented kids coming to Duke and roll the dice with whether or not they can gel, than have them go elsewhere.

[dudog84]

What you are apparently missing here is that getting to the Final Four IS a championship. You are the champion of the regional. That's why they cut down the nets and hang a banner.

Sorry, but that Final Four banner is a completely manufactured "championship". Since we're talking basketball, you don't see an NBA team hanging anything because they make it to their conference semifinals. Or virtually any other sport for that matter (if they do, it's college and they're only following the marketing plan of college basketball).

Edit: With all the shuffling, it's not even your "region" anymore.

Edit Edit: Michigan won their region by beating the 14-, 6-, 7-, and 9-seeds. Not their fault, but big whoop.

[WiJoe]

Did you watch Grayson’s senior night speech? How about the last ten seconds of the game when Bagley was stooped in half trying to pull himself together? Carter with a towel over his head?

Man, it’s ok to be sad the team lost, but questioning the heart, commitment or desire of these kids? Gimme a break.

I did not question heart, commitment or desire. I simply made an observation.

Carter was not in postgame press conference.\

Stooped in half? I missed that. How did they stitch him together so quickly?

[cruxer]

Our second half adjustment to the 1-3-1 really bit us. We lost that first 4-5 minutes by 10. I think if K had one do over it would be that

I didn't know the exact number, so thanks, but this was certainly my perception. It looked like self anticipated this adjustment and KU murdered it.

[Bluedog]

Obviously, game was so close and could have gone either way easily, but the two stats that stand out to me: outbounded by 15 and Bagley only took 9 shots.

[TexHawk]

Thanks for the thoughtful basketball talk this year, I especially appreciate the lack of negativity in threads like these towards the opposing team. I wish KU forums were as respectful as you all. Helluva game, I was in the stands. Both fanbases showed well, sad that someone had to go home.

I'll only make 3 comments on the game:
1- We actually didn't shoot that well at all from 3, percentage-wise. Some timely makes by Newman and Svi, of course, but the ~35% from 3 is a credit to Duke's defense.
2- I thought it was a charge too.
3- You could wake me up tomorrow and tell me that Donald Trump has resigned and is moving to North Korea to marry Kim Jong-un and I would be less surprised than seeing KU outrebound Duke 47-32. I don't have time to look at old box scores, but after the new year, we may have outrebounded our opposition in conference once or twice in 18 games.

I'll bow out until the offseason, congrats on a great year.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Sorry, but that Final Four banner is a completely manufactured "championship". Since we're talking basketball, you don't see an NBA team hanging anything because they make it to their conference semifinals. Or virtually any other sport for that matter (if they do, it's college and they're only following the marketing plan of college basketball).

Edit: With all the shuffling, it's not even your "region" anymore.

There are only two conferences/leagues in the NBA/NFL/MLB, hence why no “semifinal” banners. But teams most definitely hang conference “championship” banners.

In CBB, it just so happens that the tournament is split into four regions. And if you win one, you hang a banner for it.

[cptnflash]

Also, shout out to the Twitterverse for being all over Grant Hill for his ridiculous commentary about Kansas being “in control” of the game when we were ahead 15-14 going to a commercial break in the first half.

I get that former Duke players have to lean hard the other way to avoid the perception of pro-Duke bias, but comments like that are just silly.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Kansas hit their 3's and we did not.

Self had the zone figured out.

K failed to foul at the end.

etc etc etc

And we still would have the game is the last shot in regulation had rolled in not out.

SoCal

[Ian]

Also, shout out to the Twitterverse for being all over Grant Hill for his ridiculous commentary about Kansas being “in control” of the game when we were ahead 15-14 going to a commercial break in the first half.

I get that former Duke players have to lean hard the other way to avoid the perception of pro-Duke bias, but comments like that are just silly.

He must have cue-carded that phrase "Kansas in control" because he did it in the Kansas/Clemson game with Kansas leading something like 14-11. Which made me raise my eyebrows because 14-11 doesn't seem like a "in control" type of score. When he did it again today with Duke leading by 1 I just laughed.

[AtlDuke72]

Amen brother. We think we know these young men but we know next to nothing about their real lives, their hearts and their dreams.

Come on folks, show some compassion and if you can't find that, show some class.

. . . or just shut up!

[Bluegrassdevil1]

I find the consternation with the OAD era to be quite confounding.

Without the four freshman, does any reasonable person believe Duke makes the regional final? Do they believe a more experienced group of lesser players beats KU, or Villanova, or South Carolina last year? All three of those teams are experienced and have no OAD players, so was Duke supposed to find a way to pull in Brunson or Bridges? If the OAD rule did not exist, Newman would have left before he set foot on Mississippi State's campus, but most of KU's best players would have still been there.

From 2005 onward:

Duke has won 16 tournament games without a OAD player. 1 title. 1 Final Four. 2 elite-8 appearances.

Duke has won 14 tournament games with OAD players. 1 title. 1 Final Four. 2 elite-8 appearances.

In my mind, those results are not profoundly different. And while OAD strategies may occasionally lead to frustration, there has not been a huge comparable upswing when Duke is stacked with experienced players.

[dudog84]

There are only two conferences/leagues in the NBA/NFL/MLB, hence why no “semifinal” banners. But teams most definitely hang conference “championship” banners.

In CBB, it just so happens that the tournament is split into four regions. And if you win one, you hang a banner for it.

Exactly. And we have the Atlantic Coast Conference.

[UrinalCake]

Such a brutal way to end the season in a game that could have been won in so many ways. Yet for most of the second half, Kansas did look like the better team. Had Grayson’s shot st the end of regulation dropped, Kansas would be wondering how they managed to blow a seven point lead in the final minutes.

Our flaws have been present all season, and they were why we lost the game. Opposing defenses can pack the paint and completely take away our ability to feed the post. Again, we’ve seen this all year. We never made any adjustments to run plays with the intent of feeding the post. Once Bagley did get the ball, Duval’s man would come over and double him and we couldn’t capitalize. That is probably the most disappointing thing about this whole season to me, our offense was so often stagnant and predictable we never really developed enough ability to get the bigs involved.

Our three point shooting was inconsistent all season, there’s no getting around that. It’s a real shame that we had possibly the best frontcourt tandem in Duke history, and we just didn’t have the guard play to keep defenses honest.

Carter was mostly a no-show today, I don’t know if getting hit in the head early affected him but he just looked visibly shaken all night. I also questioned the decision to put him back in with two fouls in the first half when Bolden was playing so well. Credit him for shaking it off late; when he came back in around the seven minute mark we made our run and retook the lead.

Again, disappointing to lose that game but the players left it all out on the floor, you can’t question their heart or desire to win this game. Every time we lose, fans start questioning the OAD’s but when we win then they’re okay with it. As someone who has endured plenty of seasons of four year players who had no chance at sniffing a title, I’m okay with recruiting the most talent.

[84Duke]

I don't know what to say. Shouldn't have won, then could win, then should win, then might win, then a win rolls off the rim. Then could win, then didn't win. A lot like the UVa loss in Cameron. Duke had exactly one player in Duval (yes, I have bashed him a lot) play an above his average game, and still had a shot at beating a #1 seed on what was a friendly court for them.

I will always consider this game a missed opportunity.

[WHOneedsSOX]

I guess I am one of the few who thought Gary played a good game tonight even though he was missing from the 3 pt line.

I thought he played well all season. I just don't see any exceptional NBA skill from him yet. His shooting I guess since he did shoot over 40%.

[Ian]

I find the consternation with the OAD era to be quite confounding.

Without the four freshman, does any reasonable person believe Duke makes the regional final? Do they believe a more experienced group of lesser players beats KU, or Villanova, or South Carolina last year? All three of those teams are experienced and have no OAD players, so was Duke supposed to find a way to pull in Brunson or Bridges? If the OAD rule did not exist, Newman would have left before he set foot on Mississippi State's campus, but most of KU's best players would have still been there.

From 2005 onward:

Duke has won 16 tournament games without a OAD player. 1 title. 1 Final Four. 2 elite-8 appearances.

Duke has won 14 tournament games with OAD players. 1 title. 1 Final Four. 2 elite-8 appearances.

In my mind, those results are not profoundly different. And while OAD strategies may occasionally lead to frustration, there has not been a huge comparable upswing when Duke is stacked with experienced players.

The whole point of going OAD was that it was supposed to get better results. If you agree that it hasn't done that, they why the need to defend it? We turned Duke into an NBA basketball factory for what exactly?

[jv001]

I thought he played well all season. I just don't see any exceptional NBA skill from him yet. His shooting I guess since he did shoot over 40%.

I believe that another year would help Gary with his ball handling skills, assists and better man2man defense. But I don't see him returning with the perimeter players we have coming in. But who knows. I hope he returns. GoDuke!

[dyedwab]

FWIW, percentagewise, Newman shot his season average on 3s and less than his season average overall. He also shot much better percentages in the previous two tourney games. I'm disappointed in the loss, but I think we're not giving Newman enough credit. His shooting wasn't a fluke. He's a very good player.

I think TexHawk on this board (Congrats, btw) mentioned that Newman was the key to KU, and Coach K in his press conference seemed to indicate that also. I mean, he scored ALL their points in OT.

He's really good

[jgehtland]

I did not question heart, commitment or desire. I simply made an observation.

Carter was not in postgame press conference.\

Stooped in half? I missed that. How did they stitch him together so quickly?

Seriously? Wow.

Been a while since I heard the “I didn’t mean anything by it, I’m just saying” line. But making fun of my grammar was a nice touch at the end there.

So, let me make an observation: I watched Grayson Allen pour his heart and soul into Duke for four years and forgo the NBA after at least two seasons where he would have been a lock first round pick. I watched Marvin Bagley dominate as a freshman like nobody else in history, and watched him bent over at the waist at the end of this game (was that better?) shaking in frustration even so. And I’ve watched Coach enough to know that it always matters. And I couldn’t care less what color their eyes were in the presser.

[cptnflash]

He must have cue-carded that phrase "Kansas in control" because he did it in the Kansas/Clemson game with Kansas leading something like 14-11. Which made me raise my eyebrows because 14-11 doesn't seem like a "in control" type of score. When he did it again today with Duke leading by 1 I just laughed.

Yeah if anyone wants to feel a tiny bit better tonight (not a lot better, but maybe like 5-10% better), just search for “Grant Hill in control” on Twitter. There are some good ones.

[ipatent]

I believe that another year would help Gary with his ball handling skills, assists and better man2man defense. But I don't see him returning with the perimeter players we have coming in. But who knows. I hope he returns. GoDuke!

I think the best we can hope for is to get Bolden back, but I wouldn't be surprised if even he tests the waters. Duval, Trent, Bagley and Carter's departures were likely preordained.

[Duke31122]

Just my two cents, but this one is hard just because it was so close. Duke played their hearts out and that’s all we can ask. It does suck, but this team never really figured it out. Not their fault, I’m 100% confident the players and coaches gave it their all.

Kansas has guys who had loss twice there before and they were hungry. Only thing that bugged me was at first it looked like the 3 with 27 seconds left was wide open, but Gary did contest it. I agree maybe we foul, but Kansas was very good at free throws. You don’t wanna foul just to possibly end up in OT with guys in foul trouble.

Thank you K and Grayson. Grayson will be missed. My guess is Delaurier will be the leader along with Bolden.

Side note, next years team reminds me more of ‘15. With Jones at the point, then having a stretch 4 like Reddish and Barrett. Team should be fun and interesting to see how Delaurier, Bolden, O’Connell, and Goldwire develops going into next year. No doubt those four will be back. Bolden should see plenty of time at the 5 next year. I think 3 point shooting will be better. If anyone would come back, I’d hope Duval or Trent. To me Duval would have the most to gain with his skills.

[gofurman]

Only Bolden and Delaurier had fewer field goal attempts than Bagley. No excuse for that.

Double teaming Bagley was smart. Only saw that a few times this year. Seemed each time it was done he had an average game and others didn't make up for the missing points ... Pick a poison - bagley from three feet or Allen / Trent from 20 feet? Yeah. Double Bagley. Smart choice and hope threes don't fall


Also. Everyone here said KU had to shoot above average from three to beat us. WRONG. (Sorry , just mad) - ku shot below average from three and turned the ball over a TON and we still couldn't beat em. Why? Because they KILLED us on the boards. Ironic that they outrebound us and we turn the ball over so much less - it was the thing about quick aggressive guards doing a great job w rebounding

[simplyluvin]

Very good but not by any stretch great season. Lots of what if’s that will drive you mad. Grayson’s shot at end of regulation, Carter’s last foul, Duval's last turnover trying to squeeze between two defenders, and just poor outside shooting.

This season may have been one of the most difficult I’ve endured, likely due to the high expectations with MB3’s late commitment. This season was more excruciating than last year. I don’t remember being on such a roller coaster before the OAD era. I was in school for the 2003 FF, and that wasn’t nearly as heartbreaking as today, although I may have selective memory here. Kills me every time Coach says “we played young.”

Part of me is dreading next year with an even more talented class coming in but with less upperclassman leadership. Will definitely temper expectations even with preseason rankings likely to be sky high. 2015 seems to be an anomaly (2012 Kentucky also).

Will miss Grayson. May never get a senior of his caliber ever again at Duke. What could have been.

[jv001]

I think TexHawk on this board (Congrats, btw) mentioned that Newman was the key to KU, and Coach K in his press conference seemed to indicate that also. I mean, he scored ALL their points in OT.

He's really good

I think he's shot very well in the tournament but watch him stink it up against Villanova. Usually works out like that. GoDuke!

[AtlDuke72]

Can't see how people are faulting the calls on Carter. He had a very off game. Rode the pine much of the way, airmailed a couple of clutch bunnies.

I feel bad for him the way it ended. but nba

Really? The fifth foul call was as bad a call as I have ever seen. It gave Kansas 2 points with 2 1/2 minutes to play and took Carter out of the rest of the game and the overtime after he had scored 6 points in the last 5 minutes and was probably our best rebounder. I am not sure but I think it would have been Newman’s 4th foul. The fourth foul on Carter was also a blown call. No way to know for sure how the game would have gone if those calls had been made correctly, but do you really think they made no difference?

[Dukehky]

I hope Roger Ayers has bed bugs for the rest of his natural-born life.

[cruxer]

I find the consternation with the OAD era to be quite confounding.


Cosign. We've always recruited the best guys coach thought would be a good fit. In the last few years we win more than we lose on the recruiting trail. That combined with the early departure of guys who were not anticipated OAD means we'll be starting out with younger teams. I don't see how that changes unless we don't want to recruit the best players. Even then a guy can play himself into OAD. It's just the nature of the beast.

[CameronDuke]

Hard to believe another Duke basketball season has come and gone. The guys won a lot of games this year and also lost a lot of games considering how much raw talent was on the roster. The guys also won some games where for much of the game it didn't appear they would win. It's hard to believe a team this talented lost 8 games this year but it simply shows sometimes experience playing together and with each other is invaluable.

I thought Duke played as hard as they could tonight and just came up short in OT. Like many have said, if Grayson's shot at the end of regulation spins a millimeter in a different direction we are all jubilant right now. There were several plays that if they occurred differently Duke probably would have won (the air ball baby hook Carter shot with under a minute left is a shot he has hit dozens of times this season).

Duval looked the most focused, assertive, aggressive, and poised I think I have seen all year from him tonight. If this is his last game in a Duke uniform, he went out well. It's a shame we may not be able to see what he would look like next year and beyond at Duke because I thought tonight he showed glimpses of being totally dominant at the point. He has a bright future in basketball. The drive to the rim for the dunk in the first half was Jason Williams like.

Grayson will be remembered many years from now in Duke folk lore. Just a warrior and relentless player. I'll always remember his dive for the loose ball in the 2015 national title game versus Wisconsin and also his big smile. He showed a ton of heart this year leading this team. He's an all-time great at Duke. Thanks for the memories Grayson!

Bagley and Carter were my all time favorite big man tandem to watch at Duke for sheer entertainment purposes. They dominated so many games this year and are as skilled as any big men to ever play at Duke. Thanks for a great season and for the effort and heart this year.

Trent was the best freshman shooting guard in Duke history I've ever seen. JJ is a close second but Trent has more of a midrange game than JJ had as a freshman. He was so smooth all year for Duke.

Tonight, I just thought Duke got outworked for too many possessions on the glass. Some misses that Kansas missed were long and bounced back over the Duke zone and Kansas retrieved the long rebound and made Duke pay by hitting a second chance 3 or basket. I'd be surprised if someone told me Duke was out rebounded worse than that by another team all year. But maybe I'm just not remembering. They also got many 50-50 balls in traffic and got some easy stick backs around the rim. Self obviously made the lob alley oop play a point of emphasis too. The defense was impressive as well. Bagley never really got going until late (same for Carter) and that's due to being blanketed in the post consistently. It was hard to get a clean look on the perimeter, too, and if not for Duval playing out of his mind attacking the basket and finishing and dishing Duke could have lost this by double digits in regulation. That's how good I thought Kansas played defensively.

It was a charge. Whatever.

Another summer of hard work and I think Bolden could be a dominant force next year. He has God given talent and skill to go along with rare size.

Congrats to Kansas and I'm already looking forward to the Blue White game in October.

[ipatent]

Double teaming Bagley was smart.

It helped them that Carter was in foul trouble...he was starting to figure it out before the charge that was called as his fifth.

[jv001]

I think the best we can hope for is to get Bolden back, but I wouldn't be surprised if even he tests the waters. Duval, Trent, Bagley and Carter's departures were likely preordained.

We really need Bolden to return. I think he can be a stud in the middle next season. GoDuke!

[WHOneedsSOX]

Double teaming Bagley was smart. Only saw that a few times this year. Seemed each time it was done he had an average game and others didn't make up for the missing points ... Pick a poison - bagley from three feet or Allen / Trent from 20 feet? Yeah. Double Bagley. Smart choice and hope threes don't fall


Also. Everyone here said KU had to shoot above average from three to beat us. WRONG. (Sorry , just mad) - ku shot below average from three and turned the ball over a TON and we still couldn't beat em. Why? Because they KILLED us on the boards. Ironic that they outrebound us and we turn the ball over so much less - it was the thing about quick aggressive guards doing a great job w rebounding
Interestingly, even with Kansas' 15 more rebounds, Duke actually shot one more shot than Kansas because of their turnovers. Obviously the rebounding hurt cause the number of shot attempts could've been lopsided for Duke but it didn't really change much with all their giveaways. It was an extremely even game which was proven with the game going into OT.

[WiJoe]

Seriously? Wow.

Been a while since I heard the “I didn’t mean anything by it, I’m just saying” line. But making fun of my grammar was a nice touch at the end there.

So, let me make an observation: I watched Grayson Allen pour his heart and soul into Duke for four years and forgo the NBA after at least two seasons where he would have been a lock first round pick. I watched Marvin Bagley dominate as a freshman like nobody else in history, and watched him bent over at the waist at the end of this game (was that better?) shaking in frustration even so. And I’ve watched Coach enough to know that it always matters. And I couldn’t care less what color their eyes were in the presser.

bully for you

[MB in MD]

Kansas is a 1 seed with experience. They won the Big 12 that had 3 teams in the final 8. Bags had 16 and 10 and Carter had 10 while saddled with fouls. I would not call that they shut down the bigs. Duvall had 20 but Trent had 17- not sure either was Herculean. Duke played pretty well against a very good team. Duke had the lead with 36 secs to go. If they outplayed Duke in every way- they did a lousy job of showing it.

Fundamentally they prevented us from doing the things we do well and we didn't prevent them from doing the things they do well. That's what I mean when I say we were outplayed.

[richardjackson199]

Thanks for the thoughtful basketball talk this year, I especially appreciate the lack of negativity in threads like these towards the opposing team. I wish KU forums were as respectful as you all. Helluva game, I was in the stands. Both fanbases showed well, sad that someone had to go home.

I'll only make 3 comments on the game:
1- We actually didn't shoot that well at all from 3, percentage-wise. Some timely makes by Newman and Svi, of course, but the ~35% from 3 is a credit to Duke's defense.
2- I thought it was a charge too.
3- You could wake me up tomorrow and tell me that Donald Trump has resigned and is moving to North Korea to marry Kim Jong-un and I would be less surprised than seeing KU outrebound Duke 47-32. I don't have time to look at old box scores, but after the new year, we may have outrebounded our opposition in conference once or twice in 18 games.

I'll bow out until the offseason, congrats on a great year.

Congrats to your Jayhawks. They made the winning plays in winning time and executed a great gameplan better. Kansas won the best conference in basketball by 2 games, continued the Big 12 conference winning streak (amazing) in a very tough year, won the Big 12 Tourney without Azubuike, is going to a Final 4, and may not be done. It's awesome for their seniors and team.

This really hurts for us, as it always does when you lose the last game.

This season was a good year, but a disappointment overall. On paper this team had everything and stayed very healthy overall. But the team lost to the cheats twice, lost in Cameron, failed to win either conference championship, failed to earn a #1 seed, and failed to make a Final 4. This team had the talent to do those things, had the talent to win it all even, but never could quite put it all together. I sure wish they could have had a chance to show what they could be against Villanova who could have brought out their best. Their win on Senior night was the season highlight.

But they represented Duke very well and did things the right way. I'm still proud of this team, even though they didn't win as much as I thought they might. I wish them all the utmost success in the NBA and in life.

Hopefully next year's team can stay healthy and can realize their potential. It could be a fun year, and I honestly hope it is much more fun than this season was.

[gocanes0506]

I find the consternation with the OAD era to be quite confounding.

Without the four freshman, does any reasonable person believe Duke makes the regional final? Do they believe a more experienced group of lesser players beats KU, or Villanova, or South Carolina last year? All three of those teams are experienced and have no OAD players, so was Duke supposed to find a way to pull in Brunson or Bridges? If the OAD rule did not exist, Newman would have left before he set foot on Mississippi State's campus, but most of KU's best players would have still been there.

From 2005 onward:

Duke has won 16 tournament games without a OAD player. 1 title. 1 Final Four. 2 elite-8 appearances.

Duke has won 14 tournament games with OAD players. 1 title. 1 Final Four. 2 elite-8 appearances.

In my mind, those results are not profoundly different. And while OAD strategies may occasionally lead to frustration, there has not been a huge comparable upswing when Duke is stacked with experienced players.

Your argument is based on the teams being the same but subtracting top freshmen. The recruiting philosophy changed and so did the team make up. The team would look much different without the freshmen. So far the NBA farm system has led to 1 championship, a bunch of disappointing early tournament losses as well.
Of course the season is its own ebb and flow frustration.

[Dukebasketball2020]

I think the one flaw of this team and 1 missing piece was having that extra 3 point shooter if either Kennard stays or Frank Jackson duke is a way better team.