PDA

View Full Version : Favorite Player Poll- Laettner vs Groat



JasonEvans
10-26-2007, 10:25 AM
I am really looking forward to this one.

Our #27 seed, Dick Groat, is one of the great athletes in Duke athletic history. An All-American and professional athlete in basketball, his best sport was actually baseball. He was a 5-time Major League All-Star and won the NL MVP award in 1962. Of course, we are primarily concerned with the basketball and he was no slouch there. He averaged 25.2 ppg as a junior and 26 ppg as a senior, 2both of those are among the 5 best scoring seasons in Duke history.

His opponent is perhaps the greatest clutch player in college basketball history. The legend of Laettner, the #6 seed, is remarkable. It probably begins with him missing 2 FTs in the Meadowlands at the end of a regular season game against Arizona and then vowing to never miss a clutch shot again. He sure kept that vow. The legend grows until we reach THE GREATEST GAME EVER PLAYED against Kentucky in 1992. I was there, sitting in the front row on the baseline. Grant Hill almost stepped on my foot when he reared back to make his last-second desperation pass. What happened next is the highlight of every March Madness video ever made.

Laettner vs. Groat... you may begin voting now.

--Jason "sorry, got a little carried away talking about these two" Evans

JasonEvans
10-26-2007, 12:11 PM
I dunno why, but I thought this one would be closer. I didn't think Groat would pull the upset, but I thought it would be closer.

Oh well.

-Jason

SilkyJ
10-26-2007, 12:15 PM
I am really looking forward to this one.

Our #27 seed, Dick Groat, is one of the great athletes in Duke athletic history. An All-American and professional athlete in basketball, his best sport was actually baseball. He was a 5-time Major League All-Star and won the NL MVP award in 1962. Of course, we are primarily concerned with the basketball and he was no slouch there. He averaged 25.2 ppg as a junior and 26 ppg as a senior, 2both of those are among the 5 best scoring seasons in Duke history.

His opponent is perhaps the greatest clutch player in college basketball history. The legend of Laettner, the #6 seed, is remarkable. It probably begins with him missing 2 FTs in the Meadowlands at the end of a regular season game against Arizona and then vowing to never miss a clutch shot again. He sure kept that vow. The legend grows until we reach THE GREATEST GAME EVER PLAYED against Kentucky in 1992. I was there, sitting in the front row on the baseline. Grant Hill almost stepped on my foot when he reared back to make his last-second desperation pass. What happened next is the highlight of every March Madness video ever made.

Laettner vs. Groat... you may begin voting now.

--Jason "sorry, got a little carried away talking about these two" Evans

No need to apologize. I didn't know all that info about Groat. Great stuff. I can't believe he was a bball star who averageed 25+ppg and yet won the NL MVP!!

And definitely no need to apologize about Laettner...I get goosebumps just thinking about it...so cool that you were on the baseline for that game. You lucky dawg you...

hurleyfor3
10-26-2007, 12:30 PM
If it's all around lifetime achievement, the winner is clearly Groat.

Groat played in the greatest game ever, too, except in baseball.

gw67
10-26-2007, 12:49 PM
I'm voting for Laettner. As Jason stated, he is the greatest clutch player in Duke history.

You really have to be an old geezer to have seen Groat play basketball at Duke. He was a two-time All American. I did, however, get to see him play for the Pirates as I spent parts of three summers in Jeanette PA and we went to a bunch of games. He was outstanding in the field and was a great clutch hitter on terrific teams featuring Clemente, Maz, Groat, Virdon and Hoak. I believe that he now does color for college basketball in Pittsburgh.

gw67

Clipsfan
10-26-2007, 01:05 PM
I dunno why, but I thought this one would be closer. I didn't think Groat would pull the upset, but I thought it would be closer.

Oh well.

-Jason

It's hard to have a guy who played so long ago be your favorite when you never had the chance to see him play. Obviously there is a strong bias here based on the age of most posters.

dukestheheat
10-26-2007, 01:39 PM
Laettner-

Mr. Steely. Pick him for any basketball team, any time! A true warrior.

dth.

Olympic Fan
10-26-2007, 01:42 PM
I doubt Groat has a chance -- who on this board -- other than Bill Brill? -- got to see him play basketball?

I'm a geezer and I do remember him as a baseball player -- a prematurely bald shortstop who led the league in hitting. I can't forgive him for helping two teams beat my Yankees in the World Series -- the 1960 Pirates and the 1964 Cardinals. ;-)

When he scored 831 points in 1951, that was not only the top total in college basketball -- it was the all-time record. No Duke player topped his raw point total until Redick in 2006. BTW, the year he set the scoring record, he unofficially led the nation in assists.

One more brief blurb about Groat -- both Duke and the ACC have shortchanged him in one regard. They list him as the Helms Foundation national player of the year in 1952 ... which he did win.

But that's a minor award, given by a bread company. Groat was also named UPI national player of the year -- that was the biggie in those days. He was also named the Look Magazine national player of the year, which was another biggie.

As far as I can tell, the Associated Press didn't give a national player of the year award in 1952 -- but Groat was the leading vote-getter on the AP All-American team, so I suppose you could claim he unofficially won that one too.

DukeDude
10-26-2007, 01:59 PM
You really have to be an old geezer to have seen Groat play basketball at Duke.

I think I saw Dick play in the old-timers game before the blue-white game circa 1990. Everybody was cheerng for the really old guy in a game with some people as young as Mark Alarie and Tommy Amaker. Dick was the greatest athlete ever at Duke University. Here is his wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Groat) entry for just basketball.

"Groat played college basketball for Duke University. He was twice (1951 and 1952) an All-American, and was named the UPI National Player of the Year in 1952 after setting an NCAA record with 839 points. On May 1 of that year, his #10 was the first jersey to be retired in the rafters of Cameron Indoor Stadium, and it remained the only jersey retired by the school until 1980.

After college, Groat spent one season as a guard with the Fort Wayne Pistons of the NBA. In 26 games, he averaged 11.9 points, but his basketball career was cut short by military service; when his enlistment was up, he returned to the Pirates but not to the Pistons.

Groat currently serves as a radio color analyst for University of Pittsburgh men's basketball games."

All that said, I still voted for Laettner. He willed the team to 2 national championships and 4 final fours, twice hitting buzzer beaters to win games in the elite 8. There will likely never be another player who can match his accomplishments.

bird
10-26-2007, 02:10 PM
Gross oversimplification, but:

Laettner = two national championships. I owe him one.

JasonEvans
10-26-2007, 02:19 PM
It's hard to have a guy who played so long ago be your favorite when you never had the chance to see him play. Obviously there is a strong bias here based on the age of most posters.

Oh, I voted for Laettner and Groat is not one of my favorite Dukies as I have never seen him play nor have I read many stories about him (unlike Heyman, about whom there are many stories). Still, I was a little surprised the vote was such a landslide.

--Jason "you know, after a couple days of tense, close votes it is kinda nice to have a trio of blow-outs today" Evans

JasonEvans
10-26-2007, 04:38 PM
If any player takes a 40 or 50 vote lead in a poll, should I just close that poll at that point and admit there is no chance of the other player making that big of a comeback? Is there some value in leaving the polls open so everyone can feel like they participated, even when the result is no longer in doubt?

-Jason "just wondering" Evans

Lord Ash
10-26-2007, 04:51 PM
No. At this point if it looks "done" I think it would be best if you closed it up and posted another!:)

throatybeard
10-26-2007, 07:00 PM
I doubt Groat has a chance -- who on this board -- other than Bill Brill? -- got to see him play basketball?

Brill 1986 isn't unpacked in my new place yet, but I'm pretty sure Bill not only saw Groat play but also matriculated with him.

Jason, most of the polls seem to get up to about 125 votes. If you get to that point and it's not close, sure whynot close it.

JBDuke
10-26-2007, 08:07 PM
And definitely no need to apologize about Laettner...I get goosebumps just thinking about it...so cool that you were on the baseline for that game. You lucky dawg you...

Good grief! Is there ANYONE on this board that doesn't know Evans was sitting behind Grant when he threw that pass? Jason only tells this story about five times a year, just to rub it in! ;-)

monkey
10-26-2007, 09:10 PM
Got to give some love for one of the greatest players in Duke history.

cowetarock
10-27-2007, 01:35 AM
I saw Groat play his last game at Duke Indoor and put on a one man show against Carolina that no one should ever forget.No one other than Laettner would get my vote over Groat but in my opinion Laettner was the greatest college player ever.

Bob Green
10-27-2007, 05:58 AM
Here is a timely link (http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/weiss/) to illustrate Groat's contributions to college athletics.

JasonEvans
10-27-2007, 06:35 AM
Good grief! Is there ANYONE on this board that doesn't know Evans was sitting behind Grant when he threw that pass? Jason only tells this story about five times a year, just to rub it in! ;-)

Go ahead and lie and tell me you would not tell that story over-and-over again if it had happened to you!!

Ha!

--Jason "you never know when a newbie will not have heard it ;) " Evans

JasonEvans
10-27-2007, 07:25 AM
This poll is closed. Blowout victory for Laettner. He moves onto the Sw 16 to face the winner of Thomas Hill and Jim Spanarkel.

-Jason

Zeke
10-27-2007, 10:55 AM
What the polls really reflect is the age of the people voting. Many, I assume, were not even born when Dick Groat played - how could they vote for him. The same goes for other Duke greats -alas born too soon for this poll.

gep
10-27-2007, 01:47 PM
What the polls really reflect is the age of the people voting. Many, I assume, were not even born when Dick Groat played - how could they vote for him. The same goes for other Duke greats -alas born too soon for this poll.

But... for me, that's the reason this poll is so good and so interesting... it gives us younger folks a look back and an appreciation of other great Duke players that we didn't have the chance to see. :)