Floor-slapping Zone and Twitter

[NM Duke Fan]

I was amused to find out that there were twitter negative comments regarding the floor slapping near the end of the first half! It felt like a spontaneous and timely influx of energy to me, nice reminder of the intense defense of days gone by as well.

""I mean, we did it," Allen said. "You can do it. It's about energy and intensity and showing some togetherness on the defensive end and getting a stop … It more symbolizes getting a stop than it does man-to-man defense."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/twitter-irate-after-duke-slaps-the-floor-in-zone-defense-during-sweet-16-win-over-syracuse/

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

K was funny in postgame when they noted that Grant was openly skeptical of the floor slap. K said that Grant never liked it and was in fact a “reluctant floor slapper” in his day.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I was amused to find out that there were twitter negative comments regarding the floor slapping near the end of the first half! It felt like a spontaneous and timely influx of energy to me, nice reminder of the intense defense of days gone by as well.

""I mean, we did it," Allen said. "You can do it. It's about energy and intensity and showing some togetherness on the defensive end and getting a stop … It more symbolizes getting a stop than it does man-to-man defense."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/twitter-irate-after-duke-slaps-the-floor-in-zone-defense-during-sweet-16-win-over-syracuse/

They slapped the floor, and immediately Syracuse called timeout. I liked it.

[devildeac]

You mean this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lefP0_ZM-Lw


Oh, sorry, you did say floor-slapping.

:o:rolleyes:

[hibby91]

It was great in the arena. I was bummed with the timeout as the Duke fans were getting loud. I told my daughter that the timeout killed our buzz. Then I had to explain what a buzz is.

[WHOneedsSOX]

I don't get what the big deal is. I thought it was done exactly for the reason Allen said. Energize the team and fans, tell everyone to lock in, and get a stop. Why can't it be done in a zone?

[duke4ever19]

Gotta admit, when they floor-slapped, I did think to myself, "In a zone?"

I understand Allen's reasoning to those questioning the act, but I would be lying if I said I didn't react the same way others did.

[JNort]

Gotta admit, when they floor-slapped, I did think to myself, "In a zone?"

I understand Allen's reasoning to those questioning the act, but I would be lying if I said I didn't react the same way others did.


I just don't get why? I've never thought it mattered the type of defense.

[plimnko]

geez.....is that all they got?

[Henderson]

At my age, I'm just impressed they can reach down that far without falling over.

[duke4ever19]

I just don't get why? I've never thought it mattered the type of defense.

Don't know. I'm merely chronicling my reaction. I have no argument to present in defense of my reaction . . . just a record of my thought when I saw it happen.

[OldPhiKap]

At my age, I'm just impressed they can reach down that far without falling over.

Getting down is easy.

Straightening back out is a struggle.

[UrinalCake]

I just don't get why? I've never thought it mattered the type of defense.

I think there's a perception that M2M is considered "real" defense while zone is easier and lazy and only requires standing around. Duke fans themselves may have even been guilty of this line of thinking pre-2015, since we almost never played it. As we've seen this season, the zone still requires a lot of effort and communication to be executed correctly. But is it "easier"? There is certainly evidence to support this notion.

Nevertheless, floor slapping is to me a way of telling your teammates that a big possession is coming and it's time to focus and put forth maximum energy. That can be done regardless of what style of defense you are running.

[norman]

Those who think floor slapping while playing zone is acceptable have never played the game.

[Dev11]

I think there's a perception that M2M is considered "real" defense while zone is easier and lazy and only requires standing around. Duke fans themselves may have even been guilty of this line of thinking pre-2015, since we almost never played it. As we've seen this season, the zone still requires a lot of effort and communication to be executed correctly. But is it "easier"? There is certainly evidence to support this notion.

Nevertheless, floor slapping is to me a way of telling your teammates that a big possession is coming and it's time to focus and put forth maximum energy. That can be done regardless of what style of defense you are running.

"Real" defense is silly jock talk. The best defense is the one that gives up the fewest points. Give me zone, press, amoeba, whatever works.

[uh_no]

"Real" defense is silly jock talk. The best defense is the one that gives up the fewest points. Give me zone, press, amoeba, whatever works.

I wonder if the same folks criticize NFL teams when they go zone at the goal line. are they also lazy?

it's almost like different situations and personnel are suited best by different defensive schemes!

tl;dr: people who talk "real" defense are idiots.

[OldPhiKap]

Those who think floor slapping while playing zone is acceptable have never played the game.

Grayson disagrees.

[WHOneedsSOX]

Grayson disagrees.

Yeah... I've been playing 25 of the 27 years I've been alive and don't see what the big deal is. Like I said earlier, slapping the floor is just telling your teammates, "We need a stop. Let's get it."

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Those who think floor slapping while playing zone is acceptable have never played the game.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Seriously though, that is a pretty danged broad brush you are painting with.

I trust the team that invented the floor slap to appropriately judge when to use it...

Additionally, when did the zone become such a ridiculed defense? In advance of the Duke/Syracuse game, I felt like I saw lots of commentators rolling their eyes or discussing "junk defenses," as though the zone I'd somehow the equivalent of mashing all the buttons on your controller to try and win your game.

[Devil549]

I have coached and played middle school, high school and college basketball......slapping the floor is fine no matter what type of defense you play. It is simply a way to make sure 5 players are playing defense as one....Fist is stronger than open hand.

Coach K has taken 4 freshmen and 1 senior and has them playing good defense.

[rsvman]

"Real" defense is silly jock talk. The best defense is the one that gives up the fewest points. Give me zone, press, amoeba, whatever works.

This.

Coach Majerus at Utah, if I recall correctly, used a triangle-and-two in the tournament against a powerhouse team (maybe Arizona?) with great success. People called it a "junk defense," but how can it be junk if it shut the other team down? How is it junk if it helped your team to win the game?

Defense is as a defense does.

[OldPhiKap]

This.

Coach Majerus at Utah, if I recall correctly, used a triangle-and-two in the tournament against a powerhouse team (maybe Arizona?) with great success. People called it a "junk defense," but how can it be junk if it shut the other team down? How is it junk if it helped your team to win the game?

Defense is as a defense does.

Jimmy Valvano, too.

[flyingdutchdevil]

"Real" defense is silly jock talk. The best defense is the one that gives up the fewest points. Give me zone, press, amoeba, whatever works.

Pre-2015, a ton of Duke fans would say anything other than M2M isn't real defense. Just like pre-2012, a ton of Duke fans were disgusted by the OAD culture and Kentucky's approach. But times have changed. And Duke fans would rather be Duke fans than admit they are displeased with zone/OADs.

For me, the floor slap will always be associated with hardcore M2M defense and use as a tool to get the 5 Duke kids on the floor amped up for the next defensive play (which, of course, can also happen in a zone). I don't think slapping the floor with zone shouldn't be practiced; I just think it's historical context will always be with M2M.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Pre-2015, a ton of Duke fans would say anything other than M2M isn't real defense.

Unless you have a very skewed definition of "a ton of fans," I disagree. I don't think most Duke fans have preconceived notions about the negative connotations of a style of defense.

I grew up in rec league playing man to man, box and one, two-three... There wasn't any sort of preference, other than if I thought my opposing man was weak, I wanted to play man to man so I could shut him down. And besides, my preference was moot - coach made those decisions.

[CDu]

Unless you have a very skewed definition of "a ton of fans," I disagree. I don't think most Duke fans have preconceived notions about the negative connotations of a style of defense.

I grew up in rec league playing man to man, box and one, two-three... There wasn't any sort of preference, other than if I thought my opposing man was weak, I wanted to play man to man so I could shut him down. And besides, my preference was moot - coach made those decisions.

Yeah, I agree with this. I would say that a ton of Duke fans believe(d) that man-to-man was the best defense to play. Heck, many still do. But I don't think folks were calling zone defenses not real defenses.

Zone defenses definitely don't have the macho appeal of man to man. But anyone who has watched Syracuse's zone, or Arizona's 1-3-1 back in the day, or UNLV's amoeba zone, or Temple's matchup zone, understands that zone defenses are legitimate defenses and should be respected.

It's all about how you play it. Man defense can look pitiful if you don't play it well. Zone defenses can look pitiful if you don't play them well.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Yeah, I agree with this. I would say that a ton of Duke fans believe(d) that man-to-man was the best defense to play. Heck, many still do. But I don't think folks were calling zone defenses not real defenses.

Zone defenses definitely don't have the macho appeal of man to man. But anyone who has watched Syracuse's zone, or Arizona's 1-3-1 back in the day, or UNLV's amoeba zone, or Temple's matchup zone, understands that zone defenses are legitimate defenses and should be respected.

It's all about how you play it. Man defense can look pitiful if you don't play it well. Zone defenses can look pitiful if you don't play them well.

I will say, man to man has more potential for embarrassing one player. Maybe that's where the perception comes in?

[CDu]

I will say, man to man has more potential for embarrassing one player. Maybe that's where the perception comes in?

Yeah, man certainly has the most/only "I am better than you" opportunity. Though as offenses have become more and more sophisticated and individual players' offensive skills have become better and better, even man-to-man defense isn't really all one-on-one play unless the opponent just goes straight iso ball with no screening/passing. So even that is a misnomer.

Really, even man defense requires teamwork and communication (concepts often linked to a zone) to be effective.

By the same token, a zone still requires you to defend the ball once players get into a scoring position. So even zones require some man skills to be effective.

[norman]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Seriously though, that is a pretty danged broad brush you are painting with.

I trust the team that invented the floor slap to appropriately judge when to use it...

Additionally, when did the zone become such a ridiculed defense? In advance of the Duke/Syracuse game, I felt like I saw lots of commentators rolling their eyes or discussing "junk defenses," as though the zone I'd somehow the equivalent of mashing all the buttons on your controller to try and win your game.

Where did I say a zone defense is a junk defense or is "less manly"? I have no problem with teams employing any type of defense that will limit opponents from scoring. Agree that I shouldn't have used the absolute, so I'll keep it personal....I cringed when I saw the floor slapping and presume I'm far from alone in that regard.

[HK Dukie]

Click Bait

Virtually anything can cause a twitter "reaction". Any journalist can cherry pick three tweets that make whatever bait they are trying to get you to click on. You could just as easily have said "Duke slapping floor greeted with Twitter Applause". I had three tweets in my feed in support. You can really make any case you want and it will be worthless and anecdotal just like toothpaste adds saying 4 out of 5 dentists recommend XYZ. The only thing that statement tells you is that 4 dentists allegedly recommend the product.

If the journalist shows three tweets that each had 10,000 retweets then there is more of a case to be made.

Regardless the slap worked. Syracuse burned a timeout. That works for me and I suspect you too.

[Indoor66]

Zone defenses definitely don't have the macho appeal of man to man. But anyone who has watched Syracuse's zone, or Arizona's 1-3-1 back in the day, or UNLV's amoeba zone, or Temple's matchup zone, understands that zone defenses are legitimate defenses and should be respected.

It's all about how you play it. Man defense can look pitiful if you don't play it well. Zone defenses can look pitiful if you don't play them well.

Macho or Win. Macho or Win.

Mmmmmm.... I just don't know.

To seem rather than to be.

[Henderson]

Those who think floor slapping while playing zone is acceptable have never played the game.


Grayson disagrees.

And down goes norman.

[uh_no]

Macho or Win. Macho or Win.

Mmmmmm... I just don't know.

To seem rather than to be.

macho man-to-man......i want to a macho mannnnn....macho man-to-man......i want to be a macho!

[Clay Feet POF]

Those who think floor slapping while playing zone is acceptable have never played the game.

Geez, then what were those Guys with the White Shirts doing out there.

[cato]

Geez, then what were those Guys with the White Shirts doing out there.

Winning.

[OldPhiKap]

macho man-to-man...i want to a macho mannnnn...macho man-to-man...i want to be a macho!

Quien es mas macho — Lorenzo Lamas, o Ricardo Mantalban?

[hallcity]

Next season -- Reversion to man to man or more zone? I'll say M2M.

[cruxer]

I think k will always prefer m2m. But he showed this year he'd even adjust defensive principles to match his personnel. Do I'm with you. We start in man.