Going, Going, Gone: 2018 NBA Draft Early Entry

[uh_no]

Usually we have a thread for this, didn't see one yet, so started one!

Gone, w/agent:

DeAndre Ayton, AZ
Trae Young, OU
Mo Bamba, TX


Going, wo/agent:

Allonzo Trier, AZ
Jalen McDaniels, SDSU
Tyler Cook, IA
Josh Okogie, GT
Jon Davis, Charlotte
Chris Silva, USC (South Cackalacky)

[dudog84]

Usually we have a thread for this, didn't see one yet, so started one!

Gone, w/agent:
DeAndre Ayton, AZ
Trae Young, OU
Mo Bama, TX

Going, wo/agent:
Allonzo Trier, AZ
Jalen McDaniels, SDSU
Tyler Cook, IA
Josh Okogie, GT
Jon Davis, Charlotte

I thought we weren't allowed to get political on this board. Or is he related to Yo Mama? :D

[vfefrenzy]

As a Vol, mo Bama is the last thing I want to see. I hope it’s long gone.

[devildeac]

I thought we weren't allowed to get political on this board. Or is he related to Yo Mama? :D

Or, Yo-Yo Ma? :rolleyes:

[devilsince1977]

Chris Silva, USC (South Carolina) . no agent hired; announced today.

[JasonEvans]

Josh Okogie, GT

Really interesting. If Tech is to be relevant in the ACC, they need him back. He's on the NBA radar, probably a mid-2nd rounder depending on how he does at the Portsmouth camp.

[JasonEvans]

Louisville’s Deng Adel and Ray Spalding are both going to “test the waters “
But not hire an agent. I bet Adel finds real interest from NBA teams.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Wow, this is a surprise, he must be unhappy for some reason. He's either going pro, or transferring.

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/sophomore-yurtseven-to-leave-nc-state-keatts-says-he-ll-go-pro-or-transfer/17432291/

[UrinalCake]

Wow, this is a surprise, he must be unhappy for some reason. He's either going pro, or transferring.

Going pro would make sense. Transferring would be a surprise; he has stuck it out through some rough times already and they are poised to be pretty good next year. Why would he sit out a year in order to go somewhere else when he has pro potential either this season or next?

[CDu]

Yeah, not a huge shock. There was certainly hope that he stayed from State fans, but Yurtseven doesn't really fit what Keatts' preferred style of play is. I suspect he'll go pro. He's got pro height/length and offensive skills, so I think he'll make a go of it there. I doubt he'd transfer, but you never know.

[FerryFor50]

Definitely should go pro, whether NBA or overseas.

7 footers who can hit 3s are valuable in today's NBA.

[JasonEvans]

Definitely should go pro, whether NBA or overseas.

7 footers who can hit 3s are valuable in today's NBA.

Agreed, this is certainly about turning pro. My bet is that he checks out the NBA interest -- which may be fairly high, I could see him going in the early-mid 2nd round if he fares well at Portsmouth -- and if that does not work out then he heads back to Europe.

-Jason "A real blow to State. Though Keats exceeded expectations in a big way this year and I expect he may make a habit of that" Evans

[FerryFor50]

Agreed, this is certainly about turning pro. My bet is that he checks out the NBA interest -- which may be fairly high, I could see him going in the early-mid 2nd round if he fares well at Portsmouth -- and if that does not work out then he heads back to Europe.

-Jason "A real blow to State. Though Keats exceeded expectations in a big way this year and I expect he may make a habit of that" Evans

Something tells me he avoids Turkey:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/article90151122.html

[Bluedog]

Unfortunately, sounds like Bonzie Colson fractured his same left foot in ND's loss to Penn St in the NIT. Bummer...They say he still should be ready for pre-draft team workouts somehow though.
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-notre-dames-bonzie-colson-fractures-left-foot-035233120.html

(Didn't want to start a new thread and this was the best place I could find. I realize he's a senior so has no choice but to be "gone.")

[pamtar]

Unfortunately, sounds like Bonzie Colson fractured his same left foot in ND's loss to Penn St in the NIT. Bummer...They say he still should be ready for pre-draft team workouts somehow though.
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-notre-dames-bonzie-colson-fractures-left-foot-035233120.html

(Didn't want to start a new thread and this was the best place I could find. I realize he's a senior so has no choice but to be "gone.")

He's gonna be the next Draymond.

[PackMan97]

I have mixed feelings. Honestly, I wish he had played better this season and was leaving because he was a first round lock. That said he dramatically improved between last year and this and will hopefully go in the NBA draft.

7'ers who can shoot are always in demand. He needs to work on his strength, but that's why you turn pro because you can work on sports as much as your mind and body allow with professionals who have millions of $$$ invested in your success as opposed to college which is only supposed to allow limited windows where you can be coached or supervised.

[mattman91]

Something tells me he avoids Turkey:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/article90151122.html

I think Turkey is safe for now. At least I hope so, I'm flying through there soon...

[FerryFor50]

I think Turkey is safe for now. At least I hope so, I'm flying through there soon...

Not for Yurtseven. I believe he faced threats for criticizing Erdogan.

[Neals384]

Maybe cheats have made an offer.

[devildeac]

Maybe cheats have made an offer.

Wouldn't work-don't think he's being investigated for anything now and his previous eligibility "troubles" (IIRC) were resolved :p.

[jv001]

Add in NC State's Yurtseven who is either going pro or transfer. There's a thread about his decision. GoDuke!

[budwom]

very little known fact: Yurtseven's great grandfather lived in a village with many yurts, and his was the seventh from the river, hence the last name. This is why we have an internet.

[chrishoke]

He could be the go to guy at Pitt.

[Henderson]

Young tall athletic guy from Europe thinks Raleigh, North Carolina isn't the apotheosis of living? That's weird.

[BD80]

So, Yurt's-leavin' and Deandre Ayt'n stayin.

[JasonEvans]

A few updates so I wanted to put out a complete list at the moment:


Gone, w/agent:

DeAndre Ayton, AZ
Trae Young, OU
Mo Bamba, TX
De'Anthony Melton, USC (So Cal)

Going, wo/agent:

Allonzo Trier, AZ
Jalen McDaniels, SDSU
Tyler Cook, IA
Josh Okogie, GT
Jon Davis, Charlotte
Chris Silva, USC (South Cackalacky)
Deng Adel, Louisville
Ray Spalding, Louisville
Lindell Wigginton, Iowa State
Justin Wright-Foreman, Hofstra
Omer Yurtseven, NCSU

[MartyClark]

Young tall athletic guy from Europe thinks Raleigh, North Carolina isn't the apotheosis of living? That's weird.

I've spent a fair amount of time in Bulgaria and Turkey. Raleigh is not bad.

[ndkjr70]

Is there any hope Cam Johnson goes pro? I really don’t want to lose to UNC twice again next year :/

[El_Diablo]

Not for Yurtseven. I believe he faced threats for criticizing Erdogan.

That was Enes Kanter.

(Although maybe Yurtseven did the same thing.)

[Troublemaker]

Is there any hope Cam Johnson goes pro? I really don’t want to lose to UNC twice again next year :/

Sure, there's a chance. A bunch of prospects each year will test the waters (i.e. declare without an agent) to work out and play in front of NBA personnel and receive hands-on feedback, and I'd be surprised if he weren't one of them. Hopefully he shines.

As for matching up with UNC next season, from what I can tell, Roy seems likely to go back to a two-big offense. And Duke has a chance to be more perimeter-based and play our more usual 4-out-1-in type offense, so the matchup advantage should swing back to Duke. This was maybe a one year blip where Duke played more like UNC typically does and UNC played more like Duke typically does.

[UrinalCake]

Is there any hope Cam Johnson goes pro? I really don’t want to lose to UNC twice again next year :/

According to my UNC friends there's a chance he goes. He's already graduated and has been in college for four years. If he stays another year there's some things he could improve, but it probably won't make a huge difference in terms of his draft stock. If he leaves it might be for the NBA, Europe, or whatever else he wants to do with his life.

[CDu]

Sure, there's a chance. A bunch of prospects each year will test the waters (i.e. declare without an agent) to work out and play in front of NBA personnel and receive hands-on feedback, and I'd be surprised if he weren't one of them. Hopefully he shines.

As for matching up with UNC next season, from what I can tell, Roy seems likely to go back to a two-big offense. And Duke has a chance to be more perimeter-based and play our more usual 4-out-1-in type offense, so the matchup advantage should swing back to Duke. This was maybe a one year blip where Duke played more like UNC typically does and UNC played more like Duke typically does.

There is also the issue that we had an injury to one of the two guys we couldn’t play without in one of those games, and got absolutely demolished while he was getting his ankle retaped.

[Jim3k]

very little known fact: Yurtseven's great grandfather lived in a village with many yurts, and his was the seventh from the river, hence the last name. This is why we have an internet.


Wait! I'm pretty sure his last name was Yurtsixten when he was a HS frosh, and Yurtsixeleven as a junior. That summer he grew an inch and became Yurtseven.

[UrinalCake]

There is also the issue that we had an injury to one of the two guys we couldn’t play without in one of those games, and got absolutely demolished while he was getting his ankle retaped.

Bagley also got hurt sometime during the first game against them, though it is unknown whether it affected his play.

[evrim]

Wow, this is a surprise, he must be unhappy for some reason. He's either going pro, or transferring.

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/sophomore-yurtseven-to-leave-nc-state-keatts-says-he-ll-go-pro-or-transfer/17432291/

Honestly, I do not think very highly of Yurtseven. He was playing in Turkey for Fenerbahce who was investing in him a lot, a team I follow very well and they were European Champions. The coach being one of the legends of the world, Obradovic - he is basically the coach K of European basketball, a legend.
When Yurtseven left Fenerbahce, he did it under circumstances that really upset Obradovic, leaving the team when there were lots of injuries, and when the team was investing in him, in the middle of the seaon and when the team really needed him. Obradovic was really working on him, giving him minutes and paying special attention, in the best team in Europe at that time. He really hurt and upset Obradovic who is normally a very gentlemanly guy. He left without a warning, knowing the team was at a very critical junction and needed players with so many injuries. So to me, that speaks volumes of his character. As Obradovic says, Omer only thinks of himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSMt_UmkdaY&feature=youtu.be
4:58
"He only thinks of himself, for him team does not exist"
To hear that from a legend... Ouch.

[evrim]

Wait! I'm pretty sure his last name was Yurtsixten when he was a HS frosh, and Yurtsixeleven as a junior. That summer he grew an inch and became Yurtseven.

Yurt means country in Turkish. So kind of like someone who loves his country.

[BeachBlueDevil]

Really interesting. If Tech is to be relevant in the ACC, they need him back. He's on the NBA radar, probably a mid-2nd rounder depending on how he does at the Portsmouth camp.

Portsmouth camp (PIT) is only for seniors and not underclassmen. So his stock will be largely determined by the NBA Combine in Chicago.

[evrim]

That was Enes Kanter.

(Although maybe Yurtseven did the same thing.)

Yup, Enes is a supporter of Fethullah Gulen who used to run things behind the scenes in Turkey (boxes and boxes of money were found in one government ministers house for example) with Erdogan but then they had a falling out. So now, anybody Turkish government does not like (seculars, anti-Erdogan, Gulen supporters) etc are being accused of being of the FETO organization (short for Fethullah) and put in jail with no trial. That is why Enes was almost detained in Romania. I am not a fan of Enes either, but he was a crazy good player. Also from Fenerbahce. He left despite a contract and Fenerbahce got mad and sent in the paymetn stubs to NCAA so he got penalized.

[Spanarkel]

Yup, Enes is a supporter of Fethullah Gulen who used to run things behind the scenes in Turkey (boxes and boxes of money were found in one government ministers house for example) with Erdogan but then they had a falling out. So now, anybody Turkish government does not like (seculars, anti-Erdogan, Gulen supporters) etc are being accused of being of the FETO organization (short for Fethullah) and put in jail with no trial. That is why Enes was almost detained in Romania. I am not a fan of Enes either, but he was a crazy good player. Also from Fenerbahce. He left despite a contract and Fenerbahce got mad and sent in the paymetn stubs to NCAA so he got penalized.

Are Enes and Kerem Kanter(UW-GB, then grad year at Xavier this season)related?

[CDu]

Are Enes and Kerem Kanter(UW-GB, then grad year at Xavier this season)related?

Brothers.

[Pghdukie]

Add in Anfernee Simons to the list. He is a 19yr old out of IMG Prep who spent an extra year there. Being 19 and 1 year removed from Hi-School he is eligible for the 18 NBA draft. His agent is Drew Rosenhaus.

[FerryFor50]

That was Enes Kanter.

(Although maybe Yurtseven did the same thing.)

Ah good call. Thanks!

[JasonEvans]

Add in Anfernee Simons to the list. He is a 19yr old out of IMG Prep who spent an extra year there. Being 19 and 1 year removed from Hi-School he is eligible for the 18 NBA draft. His agent is Drew Rosenhaus.

Simons was a top 10ish recruit who was looking at Tenn, Fla, Memphis, and a few others. Louisville was his top choice a while ago and NC St was said to be in the mix. He's expected to go in the mid-late first round of the NBA draft.

[Neals384]

Robert Williams, TX A&M.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/245/texas-am-aggies

[subzero02]

Robert Williams, TX A&M.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/245/texas-am-aggies

What took him so long declare?

[vfefrenzy]

I'm assuming we'll hear that Brad Calipari has declared any minute now.

[gam7]

What took him so long declare?

In fairness, dude is declaring a full year after he should have.

[brevity]

I'm assuming we'll hear that Brad Calipari has declared any minute now.

Huh. There is a sophomore walk-on at Kentucky named Brad Calipari. He gets some playing minutes, and Kentucky fans with sketchy vocabularies are calling narcolepsy (https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2018/1/16/16899796/brad-calipari-kentucky-playing-time-south-carolina-sec-hoops-walk-on).

He must have had a difficult time growing up. The things his father said...

“After this upcoming NBA draft, the day of your birth will drop down to the 7th most important in my life.”

“You reporters need to know that every kid on this roster is like a son to me.”

“One mistake and you’re grounded! There’s no three strike rule. This is a one and done household.”

[Troublemaker]

Miami's Bruce Brown (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22871135/miami-hurricanes-guard-bruce-brown-jr-declares-nba-draft-not-hire-agent), no agent.

[Truth&Justise]

Miami's Bruce Brown (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22871135/miami-hurricanes-guard-bruce-brown-jr-declares-nba-draft-not-hire-agent), no agent.

My guess on this one is that he'll be back. He regressed as a shooter/scorer in his sophomore season, then was injured. Just don't think NBA teams will take him.

Still, even assuming Lonnie Walker goes to the NBA, Miami will be good. A core of Lykes-Vasiljevic-Brown-Lawrence-Huell can compete for an ACC title. No incoming recruits of note, but Deng Gak redshirted and will be available.

[Troublemaker]

My guess on this one is that he'll be back. He regressed as a shooter/scorer in his sophomore season, then was injured. Just don't think NBA teams will take him.

Still, even assuming Lonnie Walker goes to the NBA, Miami will be good. A core of Lykes-Vasiljevic-Brown-Lawrence-Huell can compete for an ACC title. No incoming recruits of note, but Deng Gak redshirted and will be available.

Yeah, it feels like every 3 years or so, Larranaga puts together a team that contends for the top of the standings. Next year, he might have the right mix of talent and experience to do so, but I agree with you that needs one of Brown and Walker back.

[UrinalCake]

Feels like there's an awful lot of players I've never heard of declaring without an agent, especially when we haven't even finished playing the Elite 8. Many of these guys won't even get invited to the combine, which I personally feel like is in indication you have no business declaring. NBA teams aren't going to waste their time "evaluating" a player who isn't among the top 60-70 invited to the combine. And the irony is that those players who are on the fringes of being draftable are the ones who MOST need the services of an agent, yet they are the ones who can't hire one lest they forfeit their eligibility.

[PackMan97]

Feels like there's an awful lot of players I've never heard of declaring without an agent, especially when we haven't even finished playing the Elite 8. Many of these guys won't even get invited to the combine, which I personally feel like is in indication you have no business declaring. NBA teams aren't going to waste their time "evaluating" a player who isn't among the top 60-70 invited to the combine. And the irony is that those players who are on the fringes of being draftable are the ones who MOST need the services of an agent, yet they are the ones who can't hire one lest they forfeit their eligibility.

There are always a lot each year. I think with the development of the 2-way contract, a lot more fringe guys are going to see where they stand. Sure, going to the D-League with the hope of a 2-way and eventually a full contract is a long shot, but it beats going to Europe for a lot of these kids.

[luvdahops]

There are always a lot each year. I think with the development of the 2-way contract, a lot more fringe guys are going to see where they stand. Sure, going to the D-League with the hope of a 2-way and eventually a full contract is a long shot, but it beats going to Europe for a lot of these kids.

Not sure of the exact figures, but I believe that as of the end of the 2017 NBA season, something 20-25% of the rostered players around the league were either 2nd round picks or undrafted free agents. So the argument that it's 1st round or bust seems much weaker now, though it's clearly still better to picked in the top 30 and get guaranteed $$.

[JasonEvans]

It is also worth noting that if you declare without an agent you can gauge interest from the league and talk to scouts about what you need to improve before deciding to return to school. The way the rules are now, I think anyone who has even a tiny chance to play in the league should do this to get feedback and information. There is no downside at all to declaring and then pulling out.

[sagegrouse]

It is also worth noting that if you declare without an agent you can gauge interest from the league and talk to scouts about what you need to improve before deciding to return to school. The way the rules are now, I think anyone who has even a tiny chance to play in the league should do this to get feedback and information. There is no downside at all to declaring and then pulling out.

Isn't this just nuts, Jason? Why should any college player (or a high schooler, for that matter) be denied access to professional advice from any source? I will be profoundly disappointed if this issue isn't remedied through the recommendations of the Commission on Basketball.

[JasonEvans]

Ole Miss SG Terence Davis (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22885247/ole-miss-junior-terence-davis-enter-2018-nba-draft) - no agent. He'd need to really impress in workouts as most folks see him as a late 2nd rounder, at best.

Also USC big man Chimezie Metu (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2766122-chimezie-metu-declares-for-2018-nba-draft-wont-return-to-usc), who is not coming back to school. When USC made the NIT, not the NCAAs, Metu chose to sit out the NIT to avoid potentially getting injured and ruining his NBA dreams. I guess I can understand that. He's also seen as a 2nd rounder. It is worth noting that he was one of the names prominently mentioned in the recent FBI investigation leaks as getting a couple thousands dollars in payments from an unscrupulous agent. He continued to play, but I doubt he was looking forward to battling the NCAA over his eligibility once more evidence came out in court.

-Jason "I am sure we will see 70+ guys declare this year... same as it ever is" Evans

[El_Diablo]

Isn't this just nuts, Jason? Why should any college player (or a high schooler, for that matter) be denied access to professional advice from any source? I will be profoundly disappointed if this issue isn't remedied through the recommendations of the Commission on Basketball.

Not sure I follow. Jason was pointing out that a player can already get professional advice and decide to return to school. What would need to be remedied about that?

[UrinalCake]

There is no downside at all to declaring and then pulling out.

There's no downside, but I don't see there being much benefit either. If you're not projected among the top 60 picks and aren't invited to the combine, what NBA teams are going to invest time into working you out, evaluating you, and providing feedback? I feel like there is this myth that NBA teams have infinite resources and will help out college players out of the goodness of their own heart, and I don't see that actually happening. And for those who are on the fringes of being drafted, going through the evaluation process can actually expose more of your flaws and make you look worse the following year if you haven't improved as much (which I think is what happened to Justin Jackson).

Maybe I'm just biased because to my knowledge, no Duke player has ever put his name in and then chosen to come back to school.

[Truth&Justise]

If you're not projected among the top 60 picks and aren't invited to the combine, what NBA teams are going to invest time into working you out, evaluating you, and providing feedback? I feel like there is this myth that NBA teams have infinite resources and will help out college players out of the goodness of their own heart, and I don't see that actually happening.

Some NBA teams are interested in bringing in lots of guys for workouts because it helps them build up data on a wide range of players. ESPN had a good article on the logistics of actually declaring for the draft (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22854438/testing-nba-draft-waters-more-complicated-sounds), and I thought this part was interesting:


NBA teams are split on the early-entry rules instituted in 2016. A segment appreciates the ability to cast a wide net during the pre-draft process, conduct dozens of private workouts in May and potentially uncover sleepers to follow in future drafts. Some franchises (such as the Boston Celtics and Utah Jazz, though it varies year-to-year depending on draft picks) are incredibly aggressive about flying in as many prospects as possible for private workouts, as this allows them to gather quite a bit of information in the form of measurements, athletic testing data, interviews, psychological assessments and medical examinations. This also allows for an evaluation of players' individual skill sets on the court using the teams' own coaches and uniquely tailored drills.

There's an arms race to collect as much information as possible for internal scouting databases, some of which will be used for decisions that are made years down the line, when players become free agents or trade targets. NBA executives aren't just interested in this info for their 15-man rosters. They have a full slate of future players they will need to make decisions on for two-way contracts, summer league rosters, training camp invites and G League squads.

You're right that this still applies mostly to those top 40-60 prospects, but it depends on how determined a team is to find a diamond in the rough in the second round.

[MChambers]

Not sure I follow. Jason was pointing out that a player can already get professional advice and decide to return to school. What would need to be remedied about that?
They can’t hire an agent, unlike college athletes in other sports.

[Kdogg]

Huh. There is a sophomore walk-on at Kentucky named Brad Calipari. He gets some playing minutes, and Kentucky fans with sketchy vocabularies are calling narcolepsy (https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2018/1/16/16899796/brad-calipari-kentucky-playing-time-south-carolina-sec-hoops-walk-on).

He must have had a difficult time growing up. The things his father said...

“After this upcoming NBA draft, the day of your birth will drop down to the 7th most important in my life.”

“You reporters need to know that every kid on this roster is like a son to me.”

“One mistake and you’re grounded! There’s no three strike rule. This is a one and done household.”

Best be careful. The last UK coach who played his walk-in son was run out of town. And he had a national championship too.

[JasonEvans]

Guys, guys... don't worry. Condi Rice is gonna fix everything.

-Jason "not a political statement, merely commenting on the widespread belief that this commission is going to come up with huge changes that benefit the players... something I doubt" Evans

[dudog84]

They can’t hire an agent, unlike college athletes in other sports.

I don't think agents evaluate much more than money, usually the money they can put in their own pocket.

I assume an agent contract is for multiple years, and so they would encourage all of their clients to go pro. Then if it didn't work out immediately, they'd still have the kid on the hook for a while as he worked it out in the D(G?) League/overseas, which is where they'd rather have the kid anyway working on his ball skills and not "wasting" his time on readin', 'ritin', and 'rithmetic.

Agents would be bad for the evaluation process. Note the adidas scandal, they don't care about the effect on the kids, only their bottom line.

Apologies in advance to any agents on the board. :D

[sagegrouse]

Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
Isn't this just nuts, Jason? Why should any college player (or a high schooler, for that matter) be denied access to professional advice from any source? I will be profoundly disappointed if this issue isn't remedied through the recommendations of the Commission on Basketball.


Not sure I follow. Jason was pointing out that a player can already get professional advice and decide to return to school. What would need to be remedied about that?
Sorry, El Diablo, I was trying to be both short and on-point and missed the mark. The question is, why, for heavens' sakes, players who are destined to be pro athletes in basketball cannot have access to both business and basketball advice and valuation from anyone, any time any place?

[cato]

I don't think agents evaluate much more than money, usually the money they can put in their own pocket.

I assume an agent contract is for multiple years, and so they would encourage all of their clients to go pro. Then if it didn't work out immediately, they'd still have the kid on the hook for a while as he worked it out in the D(G?) League/overseas, which is where they'd rather have the kid anyway working on his ball skills and not "wasting" his time on readin', 'ritin', and 'rithmetic.

Agents would be bad for the evaluation process. Note the adidas scandal, they don't care about the effect on the kids, only their bottom line.

Apologies in advance to any agents on the board. :D

Agents are like brokers and lawyers. There are good ones who build a client base by giving good advice and helping their client. And there are others that churn and burn.

[BD80]

Updated list?

[weezie]

Guys, guys... don't worry. Condi Rice is gonna fix everything.

Don't leave out Grant Hill and David Robinson! Aren't they on that committee, too?

[BD80]

Miles Bridges gone. Hiring agent. No surprise.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22942528/miles-bridges-michigan-state-spartans-declares-nba-draft

[FerryFor50]

Miles Bridges gone. Hiring agent. No surprise.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22942528/miles-bridges-michigan-state-spartans-declares-nba-draft

Gotta get out before Izzo gets arrested.

[JasonEvans]

Updated list?

Aaron Holiday (https://twitter.com/AHoliday03?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp% 7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) of UCLA. Not clear if he is hiring an agent, but it sorta sounds like it.
Rawle Alkins (https://twitter.com/Iam_RawleAlkins?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5E serp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) of Arizona (last one in Tuscon, turn out the lights).He is hiring an agent.
Tulane's Melvin Frazier (http://www.nola.com/tulane/index.ssf/2018/03/tulane_forward_melvin_frazier.html) is not hiring an agent yet.
Carson Edwards (https://www.jconline.com/story/sports/college/purdue/basketball/2018/03/26/purdues-carsen-edwards-enter-nba-draft-without-hiring-agent/459655002/) of Purdue also not hiring an agent.
Duke killer Shamorie Ponds (https://nypost.com/2018/03/24/shamorie-ponds-declares-for-draft-but-wont-turn-back-on-st-johns/)of St. Johns is not hiring an agent.

-Jason "I'm sure there are more...busy time of year for this stuff" Evans

[FerryFor50]

-Jason "I am sure we will see 70+ guys declare this year... same as it ever is" Evans

Letting the days go by, water flowing underground?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IsSpAOD6K8

[JasonEvans]

Letting the days go by, water flowing underground?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IsSpAOD6K8

Incredibly appropriate lyrics:

And you may find yourself
In another part of the world (Playing in Turkey or the Philippines)
And you may find yourself
Behind the wheel of a large automobile (Lottery lotto!)
And you may find yourself in a beautiful house (more lottery lotto)
With a beautiful wife (basketball wives, on VH1)
And you may ask yourself, well
How did I get here? (by declaring for the draft)

[Pghdukie]

Jalen Hudson leaving Florida but not hiring An agent. My apologies for my late night error on another thread.

[jacone21]

Tookie Brown, Georgia Southern. Not hiring an agent.

[MChambers]

From a Big Ten school in Alaska:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/terrapins-insider/wp/2018/03/28/maryland-forward-justin-jackson-declares-for-nba-draft-will-hire-agent/?utm_term=.68908b0e75d8

[uh_no]

bagley declared per espn. thanks big man. it was a fun ride

[Dukehky]

bagley declared per espn. thanks big man. it was a fun ride

WHAT!? WHAT IS HE THINKING!? HE'S THROWING HIS LIFE AWAY. I AM SHOCKED, SHOCKED BY THIS DECISION.

Seriously, he was a transcendent player. I hope people don't expect freshman production moving forward like what he gave us. We won't see his like for a long time.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

bagley declared per espn. thanks big man. it was a fun ride

The ESPN article says he is projected at fourth. Last year, I said after the draft that those who passed on Tatum would have regrets. I would say Bagley is even more of a sure bet.

Good luck, Big Guy.

[Troublemaker]

Seriously, he was a transcendent player. I hope people don't expect freshman production moving forward like what he gave us. We won't see his like for a long time.

From a player-type perspective, yes. We're unlikely to see a big man with Marvin's athleticism and second jump ability again. It was incredible, and it led to incredible production in points and rebounds.

But from a straight up "who's better" standpoint, I do think we'll see freshmen as good or better than him again, starting next season with R.J. Barrett. And I believe we've had freshmen as good or better in the past, too. They just played in a different way.


The ESPN article says he is projected at fourth. Last year, I said after the draft that those who passed on Tatum would have regrets. I would say Bagley is even more of a sure bet.

Good luck, Big Guy.

Ooh, that is tough. At least Tatum fits right into the NBA and plays a position of scarcity that's coveted -- the 6'8" combo forward that's switchable and can hit threes.

Big men like Bagley who can score inside but don't project to protect the basket or shoot threes well don't fit in the modern NBA. Hopefully he ends up with a great organization and coach who can be creative enough to utilize his talents and hide his weaknesses. Or hopefully he can surprise and turn some weaknesses into strengths. But I completely understand why he would fall to #5 or so in the draft. Love Marvin, but that doesn't mean he's THE very best draft-eligible NBA prospect in the entire world right now.

[CDu]

From a player-type perspective, yes. We're unlikely to see a big man with Marvin's athleticism and second jump ability again. It was incredible, and it led to incredible production in points and rebounds.

But from a straight up "who's better" standpoint, I do think we'll see freshmen as good or better than him again, starting next season with R.J. Barrett. And I believe we've had freshmen as good or better in the past, too. They just played in a different way.



Ooh, that is tough. At least Tatum fits right into the NBA and plays a position of scarcity that's coveted -- the 6'8" combo forward that's switchable and can hit threes.

Big men like Bagley who can score inside but don't project to protect the basket or shoot threes well don't fit in the modern NBA. Hopefully he ends up with a great organization and coach who can be creative enough to utilize his talents and hide his weaknesses. Or hopefully he can surprise and turn some weaknesses into strengths. But I completely understand why he would fall to #5 or so in the draft. Love Marvin, but that doesn't mean he's THE very best draft-eligible NBA prospect in the entire world right now.

I really don’t think we have had any freshmen as impactful as Bagley was. We have certainly had more skilled guys. But none with his combination of size, athleticism and skill. Hence, he is Duke’s all-time freshman scorer and rebounder in spite of being underutilized offensively and missing four games. I can all but guarantee that Barrett won’t have four games of 30 and 15 at Duke.

In some ways, Bagley was Shaq. Just a completely dominant presence that teams had to completely bend their defense just to hold to 20. No, he isn’t as skilled as many guards. But he was a game-changing presence the likes we haven’t seen before at Duke, and the likes we will be lucky if we ever see again at Duke.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I really don’t think we have had any freshmen as impactful as Bagley was. We have certainly had more skilled guys. But none with his combination of size, athleticism and skill. Hence, he is Duke’s all-time freshman scorer and rebounder in spite of being underutilized offensively and missing four games. I can all but guarantee that Barrett won’t have four games of 30 and 15 at Duke.

In some ways, Bagley was Shaq. Just a completely dominant presence that teams had to completely bend their defense just to hold to 20. No, he isn’t as skilled as many guards. But he was a game-changing presence the likes we haven’t seen before at Duke, and the likes we will be lucky if we ever see again at Duke.
I rarely weigh in on these types of discussions but what do you mean by Bagley being underutilized? How is that possible? Or did you mean that there were a variety of competing sources of offense and so he was not always the go to guy?

[flyingdutchdevil]

I rarely weigh in on these types of discussions but what do you mean by Bagley being underutilized? How is that possible? Or did you mean that there were a variety of competing sources of offense and so he was not always the go to guy?

He played 44 minutes and took 9 shots in the KU game. Duval, Grayson, and Trent took a combined 47.

[sagegrouse]

He played 44 minutes and took 9 shots in the KU game. Duval, Grayson, and Trent took a combined 47.

Didn't Kansas double-team Bagley, leaving at least one other player unguarded. Seems like it is hardly Bagley's fault that he had only five shots.

[CDu]

I rarely weigh in on these types of discussions but what do you mean by Bagley being underutilized? How is that possible? Or did you mean that there were a variety of competing sources of offense and so he was not always the go to guy?


He played 44 minutes and took 9 shots in the KU game. Duval, Grayson, and Trent took a combined 47.

Yep. This is a guy who shot 61% from the field and 40% from 3, with a TS% and eFG% of 64% each. Yet for the season, he averaged just 13 FGA per game. And that's despite the fact that he was a fairly rare passer - to the point that some were calling him a black hole on offense.

Given his efficiency and the relatively low shot attempts (given his efficiency), he should have gotten a lot more opportunities than he did. So, yeah, he was underutilized. It may sound weird for a guy averaging 13 shots and 22 points per game.

[CDu]

Didn't Kansas double-team Bagley, leaving at least one other player unguarded. Seems like it is hardly Bagley's fault that he had only five shots.

It's definitely not Bagley's fault. The point dutchdevil (and I) was making was that the offense didn't do a good enough job of finding ways to get useful touches to our very best offensive player.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Didn't Kansas double-team Bagley, leaving at least one other player unguarded. Seems like it is hardly Bagley's fault that he had only five shots.

Not Bagley’s fault at all. He can’t help it if he was underutilized. That’s on the coaching staff.

KU had an incredibly smart game plan. But there are ways to punish teams if they double you and we clearly didn’t capitalize. Also, there are ways to make the defense more honest and force them to NOT double. Again, didn’t really capitalize.

I credit the KU coaching staff and the experienced players. They are nowhere near as talented as Duke but they executed a great game plan.

[Troublemaker]

I really don’t think we have had any freshmen as impactful as Bagley was. We have certainly had more skilled guys. But none with his combination of size, athleticism and skill. Hence, he is Duke’s all-time freshman scorer and rebounder in spite of being underutilized offensively and missing four games. I can all but guarantee that Barrett won’t have four games of 30 and 15 at Duke.

In some ways, Bagley was Shaq. Just a completely dominant presence that teams had to completely bend their defense just to hold to 20. No, he isn’t as skilled as many guards. But he was a game-changing presence the likes we haven’t seen before at Duke, and the likes we will be lucky if we ever see again at Duke.

I doubt that. If you look at the 4 games we played without him, Duke was just as good and arguably a better team. (I mean, beating Louisville by 26 and VaTech by 22 are really tremendous results.) Now, I don't actually think Duke was better without Marvin, but I do doubt that he's the most impactful or game-changy freshman ever. Duke just redistributed his usage to other players and kept on rolling just fine.

[CDu]

I doubt that. If you look at the 4 games we played without him, Duke was just as good and arguably a better team. (I mean, beating Louisville by 26 and VaTech by 22 are really tremendous results.) Now, I don't actually think Duke was better without Marvin, but I do doubt that he's the most impactful or game-changy freshman ever. Duke just redistributed his usage to other players and kept on rolling just fine.

That is more a function of having a really talented team. Bagley's impact on the game is pretty clear: 21 ppg, 11 rpg, 64% TS%. That we were able to offset his absence speaks to just how deep and talented this team was. And even more evidence to the fact that we never really did a great job of maximizing the talents of this team. If we could barely miss a beat while missing the most dominant freshman we've ever had at Duke, then we weren't doing a great job of maximizing the offense WITH that player.

[ChillinDuke]

That is more a function of having a really talented team. Bagley's impact on the game is pretty clear: 21 ppg, 11 rpg, 64% TS%. That we were able to offset his absence speaks to just how deep and talented this team was. And even more evidence to the fact that we never really did a great job of maximizing the talents of this team. If we could barely miss a beat while missing the most dominant freshman we've ever had at Duke, then we weren't doing a great job of maximizing the offense WITH that player.

I see your point, but I'm not sure I fully agree. And in particular, I'm not sure the bolded sentence must be true.

- Chillin

[CDu]

I see your point, but I'm not sure I fully agree. And in particular, I'm not sure the bolded sentence must be true.

- Chillin

I think the math is pretty hard to argue with. Bagley was as efficient as you could possibly be for a player with a 10+ shots per game. That we're even discussing this suggests to me that people are still undervaluing him.

We never really figured out how best to maximize his talents, in large part because we didn't have the best decisionmakers and playmakers at guard, nor did we have consistent enough shotmakers (especially against better teams) to force teams not to double-and-triple team Bagley.

We were a very efficient offensive team on average. But we were not nearly as efficient as we should have been given how much offensive talent we had on the floor: a surefire top-5 pick, another top-10 pick, and 3 more borderline first round picks.

[Devil2]

I think the math is pretty hard to argue with. Bagley was as efficient as you could possibly be for a player with a 10+ shots per game. That we're even discussing this suggests to me that people are still undervaluing him.

We never really figured out how best to maximize his talents, in large part because we didn't have the best decisionmakers and playmakers at guard, nor did we have consistent enough shotmakers (especially against better teams) to force teams not to double-and-triple team Bagley.

We were a very efficient offensive team on average. But we were not nearly as efficient as we should have been given how much offensive talent we had on the floor: a surefire top-5 pick, another top-10 pick, and 3 more borderline first round picks.


The pieces didn't fir together as well as all of us would have liked. The lack of 1) consistent shooters and 2) a PG who could run an offense at a high level were the two problems. Put a freshman Tyus on this team or a sophomore Duval and you get a much more consistent offense

[fraggler]

The pieces didn't fir together as well as all of us would have liked. The lack of 1) consistent shooters and 2) a PG who could run an offense at a high level were the two problems. Put a freshman Tyus on this team or a sophomore Duval and you get a much more consistent offense

I think this was the case the last two seasons. Overwhelming talent, but fit problems because of injuries, overlapping positions, inconsistency, etc. Next season might be more of the same, just with problems in other areas. Though, Tre Jones does look more the part of someone who can run the offense.

[Acymetric]

I see your point, but I'm not sure I fully agree. And in particular, I'm not sure the bolded sentence must be true.

- Chillin

People make this mistake all the time when assessing a player's importance. These comments are not specific to Bagley (and do not necessarily all apply to him) but when people talk about how important a player was because they scored x points or some such, they seem to imply that had that player not been on the court, or been on the court but not taken those shots, we would have lost all those points. Of course in reality, if a player were removed from the equation those shots don't disappear, they are taken by other players, in which case theoretically more, the same, or fewer points may have been scored (and any attempt to say which would have been the case is pure speculation). This year's team playing without Bagley is a good case study for that. It isn't that Bagley wasn't dominant (he was), or that we were a better overall team without him (we weren't), but we were similarly good with and without Bagley just in different ways.

[ChillinDuke]

I think the math is pretty hard to argue with. Bagley was as efficient as you could possibly be for a player with a 10+ shots per game. That we're even discussing this suggests to me that people are still undervaluing him.

We never really figured out how best to maximize his talents, in large part because we didn't have the best decisionmakers and playmakers at guard, nor did we have consistent enough shotmakers (especially against better teams) to force teams not to double-and-triple team Bagley.

We were a very efficient offensive team on average. But we were not nearly as efficient as we should have been given how much offensive talent we had on the floor: a surefire top-5 pick, another top-10 pick, and 3 more borderline first round picks.

I guess if the core of your point is that we didn't maximize the offense, then I agree. We didn't.

That said, I'm no expert in advanced stats or efficiency stats, but it seems to me that a large piece of Bagley's efficiency (by the math) had to do with putbacks and dunks. I can't imagine he was as efficient in his play if you were to look solely at what came through the flow of a half-court offense. Said differently, when I think of designing an offense, I think of what is the set or scheme from which the team could achieve the highest EV outcomes. I'm not sure the "give it to Bagley" concept would have definitively done that. It might have, but I'm not sure. We also tried it...a lot...and he wasn't particularly adept at dealing with the instant double team and he was left hand dominant (very much so). So my sense is that looking at this purely from a stats perspective doesn't tell the whole story.

Said yet another way, I think there is a reason that although his efficiency stats and average counting stats were through the roof and unbelievably impressive, he is looked at as a Top 3-5 pick in the NBA Draft. You said, "I really don’t think we have had any freshmen as impactful as Bagley was." You'll likely counter that you said "impactful" and that my example can't hold up to that standard due to injury. But Kyrie Irving, for example, was someone that you without question give the ball to every time down the court because he can observe, move, and read for optimal EV plays. Heck, even Okafor was capable of receiving passes, turning, reading, and deciding. To me, those skills (while difficult to quantify) are more indicative of how to maximize an offense. Bagley didn't have those skills in the same way - and so I'm not sure I agree that his TS% (for example) is a great metric to look at in deciding how best to optimize this team's offense.

Yet again, through all my debate, I end up agreeing that we didn't maximize the offense this season. Some of that was on the staff, some of that was on our guards, some of that was on Bagley, and on and on.

In the end, I think it might have been as simple as we needed one more consistent shooter.

- Chillin

[Dukehky]

From a player-type perspective, yes. We're unlikely to see a big man with Marvin's athleticism and second jump ability again. It was incredible, and it led to incredible production in points and rebounds.

But from a straight up "who's better" standpoint, I do think we'll see freshmen as good or better than him again, starting next season with R.J. Barrett. And I believe we've had freshmen as good or better in the past, too. They just played in a different way.

I just can't disagree with this strongly enough. If RJ Barrett were in last year's recruiting class, he would have been a lower ranked recruit than both Carter and Bagley. What more do you look at for who is better other than production? Defensively, yeah people will be better than bagley, but his stats, his +/-, his efficiency, like, what more do you want?

RJ Barrett is awesome, he's going to be fun to watch play, but he is not Bagley.

He was hyped all season, and was and is still underrated by draft scouts, cbb talking heads, and even our own fans. He should be the national player of the year.

[jwillfan]

What thread is this again?

Any more news of player early-entry to the draft?

You're welcome

[Ian]

Using FGA to determine whether Bagley was underused is not very useful, he led the team in FTA by a significant margin. His overall usage was 26.3%, highest on the team. Most players with higher usages than that are on teams where there are very limited offensive options, Duke wasn't that.

Compre him to the other AP First Team AA: Ayton 26.6, Brunson 26.4, Graham 23.4, Young 37.1.

Other than Young who was on a notorious one man show team. Bagley's usage is consistent with other superstar player on good teams.

[JasonEvans]

What thread is this again?

Any more news of player early-entry to the draft?

You're welcome

All-SEC C, Texas A&M's Tyler Davis is going in (https://www.seccountry.com/texas-am/report-texas-am-c-tyler-davis-will-declare-for-2018-nba-draft)without an agent.

Depaul G, Max Strus is also going in (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-depaul-max-strus-nba-draft-20180328-story.html)and not hiring an agent.

Same story with UCLA's Jalen Hands (http://www.dailynews.com/2018/03/28/uclas-jaylen-hands-to-enter-nba-draft-without-agent/), no agent.

And, one more, UDubb's Noah Dickerson. (https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-husky-basketball/noah-dickerson-testing-nba-draft-waters/)

-Jason "it would be easy to say most of these guys will pull out, as few of them seem anywhere close to being 1st rounders... but they may just want to start their pro basketball dream, in the NBA or elsewhere" Evans

[CDu]

Using FGA to determine whether Bagley was underused is not very useful, he led the team in FTA by a significant margin. His overall usage was 26.3%, highest on the team. Most players with higher usages than that are on teams where there are very limited offensive options, Duke wasn't that.

Compre him to the other AP First Team AA: Ayton 26.6, Brunson 26.4, Graham 23.4, Young 37.1.

Other than Young who was on a notorious one man show team. Bagley's usage is consistent with other superstar player on good teams.

Ayton was also underutilized given his TS% of 65%. Graham and Brunson were both far less efficient (TS% in the 59% range for Brunson, 57% range for Graham). So Bagley SHOULD be taking an even higher percentage of possessions than those guys.

And to the point about Bagley getting most of his efficiency on putbacks: Bagley had 69 (of his 270 total) buckets as putbacks this year. But quite a few of those putbacks were of his own misses, thanks to his pogo-stick second jump ability. So he was still an uber-efficient go-to-option on offense.

[Ian]

Ayton was also underutilized given his TS% of 65%. Graham and Brunson were both far less efficient (TS% in the 59% range for Brunson, 57% range for Graham). So Bagley SHOULD be taking an even higher percentage of possessions than those guys.

And to the point about Bagley getting most of his efficiency on putbacks: Bagley had 69 (of his 270 total) buckets as putbacks this year. But quite a few of those putbacks were of his own misses, thanks to his pogo-stick second jump ability. So he was still an uber-efficient go-to-option on offense.

TS% don't account for all the times Duke turned it over trying to force entry passes to him. The point is no one who plays on a team with other talented scorers really get (or should have) a usage much higher than 26% because defenses adjust to prevent the high usage player from doing more and forcing it that point is not efficient.

[FerryFor50]

I just can't disagree with this strongly enough. If RJ Barrett were in last year's recruiting class, he would have been a lower ranked recruit than both Carter and Bagley. What more do you look at for who is better other than production? Defensively, yeah people will be better than bagley, but his stats, his +/-, his efficiency, like, what more do you want?

RJ Barrett is awesome, he's going to be fun to watch play, but he is not Bagley.

He was hyped all season, and was and is still underrated by draft scouts, cbb talking heads, and even our own fans. He should be the national player of the year.

I dunno, RJ Barrett lit up the USA at U19 for 38:

http://usatodayhss.com/2017/montverde-academys-r-j-barrett-leads-canada-to-u19-victory-against-team-usa

That US team included:

PJ Washington
Carsen Edwards
Hamadou Diallo
Josh Okogie
Romeo Langford
Cam Reddish
Immanuel Quickley


https://www.usab.com/mens/u19/roster.aspx

I'd say he's pretty good. Bagley still might have been rated higher, but I doubt Carter would have been.

[CDu]

TS% don't account for all the times Duke turned it over trying to force entry passes to him.

Yes, which gets back to my point that we didn't do a good enough job of maximizing our team's talents. If you have a uniquely talented player like Bagley, you need to do a better job of finding ways to give him chances to score.


The point is no one who plays on a team with other talented scorers really get (or should have) a usage much higher than 26% because defenses adjust to prevent the high usage player from doing more and forcing it that point is not efficient.

But very few players are as efficient on as many touches as Bagley and Ayton. That's my point. I'm not saying Bagley needed to get 40% of possessions. But he probably needed to be at 30-33% or so.

I'm not saying we ignored him. But we didn't maximize our team's offensive efficiency by failing to find ways to get him the ball. Part of that was because we didn't have consistent guard passers. Part of it was that we had a coaching staff not used to working with two talented post-oriented bigs. And part of it was perhaps because Carter and Bagley weren't a truly compatible duo in the college game. But I definitely think we underutilized Bagley.

We underutilized Carter even moreso than Bagley, for many of the same reasons. The team just never quite figured out how to fully utilize what we had.

[CDu]

I dunno, RJ Barrett lit up the USA at U19 for 38:

http://usatodayhss.com/2017/montverde-academys-r-j-barrett-leads-canada-to-u19-victory-against-team-usa

That US team included:

PJ Washington
Carsen Edwards
Hamadou Diallo
Josh Okogie
Romeo Langford
Cam Reddish
Immanuel Quickley


https://www.usab.com/mens/u19/roster.aspx

I'd say he's pretty good. Bagley still might have been rated higher, but I doubt Carter would have been.

I definitely doubt Carter would be rated as high as Barrett if they were in the same class. Harder to say with Bagley. I can't remember if Bagley was rated above Barrett before reclassifying. Although I guess even still, I'm not sure those doing the ratings were quite aware of exactly how dominating Bagley would be in college.

[Acymetric]

Yes, which gets back to my point that we didn't do a good enough job of maximizing our team's talents. If you have a uniquely talented player like Bagley, you need to do a better job of finding ways to give him chances to score.



But very few players are as efficient on as many touches as Bagley and Ayton. That's my point. I'm not saying Bagley needed to get 40% of possessions. But he probably needed to be at 30-33% or so.

I'm not saying we ignored him. But we didn't maximize our team's offensive efficiency by failing to find ways to get him the ball. Part of that was because we didn't have consistent guard passers. Part of it was that we had a coaching staff not used to working with two talented post-oriented bigs. And part of it was perhaps because Carter and Bagley weren't a truly compatible duo in the college game. But I definitely think we underutilized Bagley.

We underutilized Carter even moreso than Bagley, for many of the same reasons. The team just never quite figured out how to fully utilize what we had.

I'm not sure it is even possible to have someone who is not a ball handler see a usage rate that high...are there any examples of more or less pure post players seeing a usage like that?

[Ian]

Yes, which gets back to my point that we didn't do a good enough job of maximizing our team's talents. If you have a uniquely talented player like Bagley, you need to do a better job of finding ways to give him chances to score.



But very few players are as efficient on as many touches as Bagley and Ayton. That's my point. I'm not saying Bagley needed to get 40% of possessions. But he probably needed to be at 30-33% or so.

I'm not saying we ignored him. But we didn't maximize our team's offensive efficiency by failing to find ways to get him the ball. Part of that was because we didn't have consistent guard passers. Part of it was that we had a coaching staff not used to working with two talented post-oriented bigs. And part of it was perhaps because Carter and Bagley weren't a truly compatible duo in the college game. But I definitely think we underutilized Bagley.

We underutilized Carter even moreso than Bagley, for many of the same reasons. The team just never quite figured out how to fully utilize what we had.

But you're ignoring that part of the issue was Bagley's own limitations. He's not physically very strong, so against teams with burly defenders he couldn't really hold position to receive entry passes well. Many times he would get pushed off the blocks, or would get bumped as the pass comes and bobble it and loss possession. His lack of strength also made it hard for him to handle double teams, how many times against KU did he get the ball only to be double teamed and dribble out of it and give up possession to the guard instead of trying to make a play.

Yes, if we had better guard play it would have helped. But it wasn't for a lack of trying, the pieces just didn't fit as well as we would have liked.

[CDu]

But you're ignoring that part of the issue was Bagley's own limitations. He's not physically very strong, so against teams with burly defenders he couldn't really hold position to receive entry passes well. Many times he would get pushed off the blocks, or would get bumped as the pass comes and bobble it and loss possession. His lack of strength also made it hard for him to handle double teams, how many times against KU did he get the ball only to be double teamed and dribble out of it and give up possession to the guard instead of trying to make a play.

Yes, if we had better guard play it would have helped. But it wasn't for a lack of trying, the pieces just didn't fit as well as we would have liked.

I am not ignoring anything. There are more ways to get Bagley the ball than simply posting a guy up and trying to force entry passes. That we never figured out ways to get our talented bigs the ball other than post entry and lobs kind of illustrates my point.

I completely agree that simply forcing the ball into the post more wasn’t the way to go. That point isn’t inconsistent with my point. And your last paragraph is a big part of my point.

[dchen09]

I definitely doubt Carter would be rated as high as Barrett if they were in the same class. Harder to say with Bagley. I can't remember if Bagley was rated above Barrett before reclassifying. Although I guess even still, I'm not sure those doing the ratings were quite aware of exactly how dominating Bagley would be in college.

I remember listening to Sam Vicenie's podcast that had Bagley stayed in the same class, it would have been him in his own tier, then RJ, then some combination of Bol Bol, Reddish, and Zion, and then everyone else.

[CDu]

I'm not sure it is even possible to have someone who is not a ball handler see a usage rate that high...are there any examples of more or less pure post players seeing a usage like that?

It is certainly possible. Especially since Bagley doesn’t have to be tethered to the post to be effective. In fact, ballhandlers often have lower usg% because assists don’t count towards usg% (though turnovers do).

[CDu]

I remember listening to Sam Vicenie's podcast that had Bagley stayed in the same class, it would have been him in his own tier, then RJ, then some combination of Bol Bol, Reddish, and Zion, and then everyone else.

Yeah, that sounds right to me. I just can’t verify it.

[BD80]

Guys - please set up another thread for your argument about Bagley's "usage" - one we can choose to ignore.

[killerleft]

Not Bagley’s fault at all. He can’t help it if he was underutilized. That’s on the coaching staff.

KU had an incredibly smart game plan. But there are ways to punish teams if they double you and we clearly didn’t capitalize. Also, there are ways to make the defense more honest and force them to NOT double. Again, didn’t really capitalize.

I credit the KU coaching staff and the experienced players. They are nowhere near as talented as Duke but they executed a great game plan.

Bagley probably IS Duke's all-time best freshman. But he could have found some better ways to get open. And if he could use his right hand for anything other than two-handed dunks, he'd be going number one in the draft.

THAT'S how good he is. And he'll learn those things, I'm sure.

[Duke76]

But you're ignoring that part of the issue was Bagley's own limitations. He's not physically very strong, so against teams with burly defenders he couldn't really hold position to receive entry passes well. Many times he would get pushed off the blocks, or would get bumped as the pass comes and bobble it and loss possession. His lack of strength also made it hard for him to handle double teams, how many times against KU did he get the ball only to be double teamed and dribble out of it and give up possession to the guard instead of trying to make a play.

Yes, if we had better guard play it would have helped. But it wasn't for a lack of trying, the pieces just didn't fit as well as we would have liked.

don't see anyone pushing Zion off the block if they use him down there....but agree wholeheartedly about lack of lower body strength by Bagley and even Carter and I continue both of them got push out by smaller more experienced defenders on Grayson's shot. If you look at the replay in slow motion you see both of them getting pushed out of position...Carter pushed too far under and Bagley being pushed too far out....both with in good position but did use their lower body to maintain

kills me about these guys today...they think they can just jump over people,,,,but good defensive fundamentals trumps that many times and did to our immense detriment on that last really chance to win the game

[JasonEvans]

Guys - please set up another thread for your argument about Bagley's "usage" - one we can choose to ignore.

A-men! As a moderator, I would like folks to please curtail conversation in this thread that involves topics other than guys declaring for the draft and stuff directly related to that.

To whit...

Landry Shamet of Wichita St. has declared. It is not clear if he is signing with an agent, but his comments (http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article207294619.html)make it sound like he is not planning on coming back.


(Shamet) did write he will be "foregoing my junior and senior seasons at Wichita State" in his post.

This is a big deal loss for Wichita. Shamet is a pretty good NBA prospect and has a decent chance of going late first or early 2nd round, depending on how his workouts go. That said, most folks had expected him to come back to Wichita.

Also declaring is Michigan St's Nick Ward (https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2018/03/29/michigan-state-basketball-nick-ward-nba-draft/469949002/). He is a real load in the post but doesn't seem to have the range or athleticism that usually intrigues NBA scouts. He is not hiring an agent and most projections have him as a late 2nd rounder, at best.

-Jason "Michigan St. could be down a good bit next season... they don't have a single top 50 prospect signed and could lose a lot in Bridges, Jackson, and Ward" Evans

[ndkjr70]

If anyone heard muted screams coming out of upstate New York, it's all of the Syracuse fans that were telling you to "watch out for next year" trying to hold it in. OUCH.

"Yahoo Sports story: McDonald’s All-American Darius Bazley decommits at Syracuse, becomes first top high school prospect to choose turning professional in the NBA G League."

https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/979442768962641924?s=21

[JasonEvans]

If anyone heard muted screams coming out of upstate New York, it's all of the Syracuse fans that were telling you to "watch out for next year" trying to hold it in. OUCH.

"Yahoo Sports story: McDonald’s All-American Darius Bazley decommits at Syracuse, becomes first top high school prospect to choose turning professional in the NBA G League."

https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/979442768962641924?s=21

G-league pays $26k per year, I think. But, most of the better players in the league (aside from the guys who are on NBA 2-way contracts that can earn you over $200k a year) get money from NBA teams for training camp and small guarantees that they get as free agents. As a result, even without the 2 way players there are 30 or so other G-league players who make over $100k per year playing basketball.

However, for a high schooler going directly into the G-league, that $26k is all they can make. I have a hard time seeing the G-league as a strong inducement to high school players. Darius Bazley could have probably upped his endorsement money by more than $26k by being closely associated with Syracuse had he chosen to remain committed to the Orangemen. Oh well.

[Nugget]

If anyone heard muted screams coming out of upstate New York, it's all of the Syracuse fans that were telling you to "watch out for next year" trying to hold it in. OUCH.

"Yahoo Sports story: McDonald’s All-American Darius Bazley decommits at Syracuse, becomes first top high school prospect to choose turning professional in the NBA G League."

https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/979442768962641924?s=21

Sounds like a well-thought out decision -- can't really blame him for reaching a different assessment of the relative development benefits of spending 1 year in college or 1 year in the G league as an overt pro (especially given its increasing role as a real "Triple A" for the NBA):

"I talked to my high school coach, Steve, who played overseas, and then I talked to a couple of guys in the G League who have experience. Ultimately, playing professional basketball has always been my dream. It’s always going to be the dream goal, always going to be the goal until I achieve it. This is going to put me one step closer to doing so.

“The G League will have the most to offer, considering that is the development league for the NBA,” he continued. “I will get more out of that than going overseas. The G League is the closest thing to the NBA. I see most guys now are spending time in the G League even after they went to school and the draft, so this gives me the chance to accelerate the process. There have been a lot of successful guys who have been brought up in the G League, and I’m confident that I will be one of them.

“I’m self-motivated because I know this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. This is how I want to make a living. This is how I want to provide for my family, and provide for my love of basketball. I’m not playing any games with this. I’m attacking this straight forward. I’m not maneuvering around this, take any side steps. I’m taking this head on. This is the decision that I made, and I know it will work. I know what I’m capable of doing, and I’m going to do just that.”

[Acymetric]

G-league pays $26k per year, I think. But, most of the better players in the league (aside from the guys who are on NBA 2-way contracts that can earn you over $200k a year) get money from NBA teams for training camp and small guarantees that they get as free agents. As a result, even without the 2 way players there are 30 or so other G-league players who make over $100k per year playing basketball.

However, for a high schooler going directly into the G-league, that $26k is all they can make. I have a hard time seeing the G-league as a strong inducement to high school players. Darius Bazley could have probably upped his endorsement money by more than $26k by being closely associated with Syracuse had he chosen to remain committed to the Orangemen. Oh well.

Well he may be able to get some solid endorsement money during that year in the G-League, assuming he is considered a legit NBA prospect for the following year.

[Ian]

This is actually a good thing. All this talk of "college exploiting kids", and there are "no viable alternatives", well, he just proved there is a viable alternative.

[Acymetric]

This is actually a good thing. All this talk of "college exploiting kids", and there are "no viable alternatives", well, he just proved there is a viable alternative.

The G-League is exploiting kids!

[rsvman]

The G-League is exploiting kids!

Maybe, but it's not a college!

[BD80]

Maybe, but it's not a college!

Like unc is ...

[rocketeli]

Well he may be able to get some solid endorsement money during that year in the G-League, assuming he is considered a legit NBA prospect for the following year.

Also, I'm assuming that, without the NCAA involved, he is free like most Americans to accept loans/gifts from his agent or other interested parties.

[Ian]

The downside, of course, is if he gets seriously injured during that year, he has nothing. If it happens in college, he at least will get a degree.

[ndkjr70]

The downside, of course, is if he gets seriously injured during that year, he has nothing. If it happens in college, he at least will get a degree.

No he won’t? Didn’t Louisville cut Kevin ware’s scholarship after he was no longer useful to their athletic program?

[House P]

Also, I'm assuming that, without the NCAA involved, he is free like most Americans to accept loans/gifts from his agent or other interested parties.

He may even be allowed to have someone buy him lunch without making national headlines! :)

Seriously, it would be very interesting to know the total financial compensation (salary, endorsements, loans/gifts, gofundme campaigns to start his own clothing/shoe brand, etc) he will receive over the next 12 months. Of course, it is pretty unlikely that he will release this information, but it would serve as an incredibly useful benchmark for future top prospects who are weighing the pros and cons of going to college.

[Ian]

No he won’t? Didn’t Louisville cut Kevin ware’s scholarship after he was no longer useful to their athletic program?

He transferred to another school, still had a scholarship at another school to get a degree. If you go G-League and get injured, you'll have to pay to get a degree.

[Acymetric]

No he won’t? Didn’t Louisville cut Kevin ware’s scholarship after he was no longer useful to their athletic program?

Usually a school would give a player a medical hardship (they keep a scholarship but no longer counts against the scholly limit and can't compete again no matter what) but I can't speak to the Ware situation specifically.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

So what are the mechanics of this? Does he get randomly assigned to a G League team? Or do they do a draft of guys who are not selected in the NBA draft? I'm not clear on what the current dynamic is, particularly since most/all of the G-League teams are now affiliates of NBA teams. Then next year he is eligible for the NBA draft?

I'm guessing that he just does not want to be in school - not everyone is cut out for academia. It just would have been nice for Syracuse if he had told Boeheim a little bit earlier.

[Ian]

So what are the mechanics of this? Does he get randomly assigned to a G League team? Or do they do a draft of guys who are not selected in the NBA draft? I'm not clear on what the current dynamic is, particularly since most/all of the G-League teams are now affiliates of NBA teams. Then next year he is eligible for the NBA draft?

I'm guessing that he just does not want to be in school - not everyone is cut out for academia. It just would have been nice for Syracuse if he had told Boeheim a little bit earlier.

I'd guess he can sign with any of them, but he can't be sign to a 2 way contract or be called up. The question is would the team that signed him be interested in showcasing him, or try to hide him so they can draft him low the next year.

[Troublemaker]

Bazley will enter the G-League draft.

[Troublemaker]

A current G league coach calls the idea of an 18yo playing in the G league "disastrous" (https://2ways10days.com/iowa-wolves-head-coach-scott-roth-calls-18-year-olds-playing-in-the-g-league-disastrous-5a6ee45e2c60). I think the key is to remember that whichever team drafts him doesn't get to keep his rights, so there's no incentive to really develop him properly. In fact, it'll be interesting to see where he gets drafted. He's probably the most talented player available but it'd be surprising if he were drafted #1 because realistically, his talent wouldn't help a G league team win right now. He's probably a couple of years away from that at least.

[proelitedota]

Bazley will enter the G-League draft.

If G-League conditions improve, a lot of 5* that currently have no interest in education nor hall of fame coaching that's going to some lower schools like Vanderbilt, UNC, LSU might opt instead to go to G-League. I believe we'll keep on getting the special top talent because our program currently offers a lot more than our competing programs.

[Ian]

A current G league coach calls the idea of an 18yo playing in the G league "disastrous" (https://2ways10days.com/iowa-wolves-head-coach-scott-roth-calls-18-year-olds-playing-in-the-g-league-disastrous-5a6ee45e2c60). I think the key is to remember that whichever team drafts him doesn't get to keep his rights, so there's no incentive to really develop him properly. In fact, it'll be interesting to see where he gets drafted. He's probably the most talented player available but it'd be surprising if he were drafted #1 because realistically, his talent wouldn't help a G league team win right now. He's probably a couple of years away from that at least.

I completely agree with him. It will be much tougher than college, the players are better, more mature, and are all fighting like mad for chance to get to the NBA, nobody, even your teammates will not be helping you much because everyone is in competition. In college your coaches, and teammates, are a support network, in the G-League you're on your own.

[cato]

This is actually a good thing. All this talk of "college exploiting kids", and there are "no viable alternatives", well, he just proved there is a viable alternative.


I completely agree with him. It will be much tougher than college, the players are better, more mature, and are all fighting like mad for chance to get to the NBA, nobody, even your teammates will not be helping you much because everyone is in competition. In college your coaches, and teammates, are a support network, in the G-League you're on your own.

I’m having trouble reconciling these two statements. Is the G-League a viable alternative to college or no?

I guess we do not know at this point. It may be tough on the kids who have to figure it out by taking a leap.

[BD80]

I completely agree with him. It will be much tougher than college, the players are better, more mature, and are all fighting like mad for chance to get to the NBA, nobody, even your teammates will not be helping you much because everyone is in competition. In college your coaches, and teammates, are a support network, in the G-League you're on your own.

I wonder about the facilities and staffing in the G league. Duke's facilities and staff are comparable to at least some in the NBA . UK, Texas, and MSU have spent a lot on facilities as well.

I doubt the investment level is "justified" at the G league if they don't have rights to players going forward.

[Troublemaker]

I completely agree with him. It will be much tougher than college, the players are better, more mature, and are all fighting like mad for chance to get to the NBA, nobody, even your teammates will not be helping you much because everyone is in competition. In college your coaches, and teammates, are a support network, in the G-League you're on your own.

I feel like there are twists and turns remaining in this story. Once Bazley starts contacting agents, they may advise him that this is a bad idea and that he should do X, Y, or Z instead. X could be the Mitchell Robinson route of just working out and training, Y could be to go to Syracuse, etc. Z probably won't be Lithuania.

[Ian]

I’m having trouble reconciling these two statements. Is the G-League a viable alternative to college or no?

I guess we do not know at this point. It may be tough on the kids who have to figure it out by taking a leap.

There is no contradiction. It's a viable alternative, but I'd say for vast majority of 18 year old basketball players it's the inferior alternative to college.

[cato]

There is no contradiction. It's a viable alternative, but I'd say for vast majority of 18 year old basketball players it's the inferior alternative to college.

I guess if by “viable” you mean “possible,” sure.

So use the word “meaningful” instead. The point is simple: college stands alone as the best path to the NBA. No other option comes close.

[UrinalCake]

Closest example I can think of to compare college vs. D/G League is PJ Hairston who was I think a junior when he got booted from the CHeats and then immediately went on to be a rather mediocre D-League player. He had a couple games where he put up some points though. No idea how a freshman with no college experience would fare, my guess is not well. Also tuition at Syracuse is worth way more than $24k.

[Ian]

I guess if by “viable” you mean “possible,” sure.

So use the word “meaningful” instead. The point is simple: college stands alone as the best path to the NBA. No other option comes close.

Yes as long as we understand that this means Colleges should be praised for being such a superior option, and not criticized for not being even better than it is. Which is what "viable option" term comes in, where because it is so good and better than the other options, it gets faulted for being a monopoly and asked to do even more.

[ChillinDuke]

We should probably move the Bazley discussion to its own thread. Some will soon clamor for us to stay on topic in this thread.

I'm happy to partake if we start a new thread but will stay out of this discussion here, for now.

- Chillin

[lotusland]

From a player-type perspective, yes. We're unlikely to see a big man with Marvin's athleticism and second jump ability again. It was incredible, and it led to incredible production in points and rebounds.

But from a straight up "who's better" standpoint, I do think we'll see freshmen as good or better than him again, starting next season with R.J. Barrett. And I believe we've had freshmen as good or better in the past, too. They just played in a different way.



Ooh, that is tough. At least Tatum fits right into the NBA and plays a position of scarcity that's coveted -- the 6'8" combo forward that's switchable and can hit threes.

Big men like Bagley who can score inside but don't project to protect the basket or shoot threes well don't fit in the modern NBA. Hopefully he ends up with a great organization and coach who can be creative enough to utilize his talents and hide his weaknesses. Or hopefully he can surprise and turn some weaknesses into strengths. But I completely understand why he would fall to #5 or so in the draft. Love Marvin, but that doesn't mean he's THE very best draft-eligible NBA prospect in the entire world right now.

Do 6’11 18YOs usually shoot threes better than Bags?

[awhom111]

So what are the mechanics of this? Does he get randomly assigned to a G League team? Or do they do a draft of guys who are not selected in the NBA draft? I'm not clear on what the current dynamic is, particularly since most/all of the G-League teams are now affiliates of NBA teams. Then next year he is eligible for the NBA draft?

I'm guessing that he just does not want to be in school - not everyone is cut out for academia. It just would have been nice for Syracuse if he had told Boeheim a little bit earlier.

I really feel bad for Latavious Williams, since he was really the first, but I guess Shams does not consider him a big time enough recruit. Williams actually got drafted the next year and has had a pretty good pro career despite not being in the NBA. I guess Bazley is the first player who has voluntarily opted for the G League unless there are academic or other issues that we do not know about.

He will be entered in the G League draft. Players who want to play in the G League enter the draft. The draft used to be very important for teams, but with two-way contracts, the ability to send NBA training camp cuts directly to a team, the smarter use of returning players rights, and teams more or less exploiting the local tryout rules, it has been much less of a big deal.
Here were the results of the last draft:
http://gleague.nba.com/news/2017-nba-g-league-draft-board/

Once he is drafted, he will go to G League training camp and will presumably make the roster and then have the same contract as any other G League signed player except without the ability to be signed by an NBA team. He will then automatically be eligible for the 2019 NBA Draft.

Some people seem to think that he will be treated worse than other G League players, but I am not sure why that would be the case. Whatever organization picks him will be able to scout him directly with their staff for the whole season. Unlike other G League players signed to regular contracts, other teams can't sign him so they know that he will be there for the whole season. It's hard to say how good he will be when the season rolls around, but the players occupying the bottom few spots on G League rosters generally are well below the level of a solid rotation player in the league so I am sure that he will get an adequate opportunity to show what he can do.

What I do wonder is whether that JBA contraption will be contacting him.

[UrinalCake]

Once he is drafted, he will go to G League training camp and will presumably make the roster and then have the same contract as any other G League signed player except without the ability to be signed by an NBA team. He will then automatically be eligible for the 2019 NBA Draft.

So if I understand correctly, an NBA team would draft him in the G League draft, he would play on their G League affiliate for the season, and then he would enter the 2019 NBA Draft where any team can draft him? If that is correct, then why would any team waste a year developing him just so another team can draft him?

I wonder what level of success he would have to have in the G League in order to actually be drafted. I thought I remembered that Quinn was the G League MVP for a couple seasons, and nobody was interested in giving him a contract. If Bazley is good enough to be a starter, would that warrant a draft pick? As we've discussed before, college ball gives a player much more exposure.

[gofurman]

So if I understand correctly, an NBA team would draft him in the G League draft, he would play on their G League affiliate for the season, and then he would enter the 2019 NBA Draft where any team can draft him? If that is correct, then why would any team waste a year developing him just so another team can draft him?

I wonder what level of success he would have to have in the G League in order to actually be drafted. I thought I remembered that Quinn was the G League MVP for a couple seasons, and nobody was interested in giving him a contract. If Bazley is good enough to be a starter, would that warrant a draft pick? As we've discussed before, college ball gives a player much more exposure.
Updated list of those who have declared ? W agent. W/out?

[elvis14]

So if I understand correctly, an NBA team would draft him in the G League draft, he would play on their G League affiliate for the season, and then he would enter the 2019 NBA Draft where any team can draft him? If that is correct, then why would any team waste a year developing him just so another team can draft him?

I wonder what level of success he would have to have in the G League in order to actually be drafted. I thought I remembered that Quinn was the G League MVP for a couple seasons, and nobody was interested in giving him a contract. If Bazley is good enough to be a starter, would that warrant a draft pick? As we've discussed before, college ball gives a player much more exposure.

I didn't even realize this was an option. So a player and go straight from HS to the G-League draft a year before he's eligible for the real NBA draft?

it's time for the NBA to put some $$ into G-league, have every NBA team have a G-league team which increased synergy between the NBA club and G-league club. This is one of the changes needed to get rid of the loathsome OAD system.

[Troublemaker]

Updated list of those who have declared ? W agent. W/out?

At some point Reddit will have the best running list (possibly edited by DBR's DavidBenAkiva).

As of right now, the best running list is probably at HoopsRumors (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/03/2018-nba-draft-early-entrants-list.html) or NBCSports (http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/03/28/2018-nba-draft-early-entry-list-who-declared-who-is-returning-who-are-we-waiting-on/)

[dudog84]

At some point Reddit will have the best running list (possibly edited by DBR's DavidBenAkiva).

As of right now, the best running list is probably at HoopsRumors (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/03/2018-nba-draft-early-entrants-list.html) or NBCSports (http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/03/28/2018-nba-draft-early-entry-list-who-declared-who-is-returning-who-are-we-waiting-on/)

Was curious that Wojo was losing his center. The guy averaged 3 points and 3 rebounds per game. What?!?

[DavidBenAkiva]

At some point Reddit will have the best running list (possibly edited by DBR's DavidBenAkiva).

As of right now, the best running list is probably at HoopsRumors (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/03/2018-nba-draft-early-entrants-list.html) or NBCSports (http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/03/28/2018-nba-draft-early-entry-list-who-declared-who-is-returning-who-are-we-waiting-on/)

Thanks for the shoutout!

One of the mods from the Reddit group started a running list: https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/87dgsv/2018_nba_draft_decisions_thread/

I also recommend checking out Adam Zagoria's blog: http://www.zagsblog.com/2018/03/26/2018-nba-draft-early-entry-list/

I have been absolutely swamped the last month and haven't been able to get a list going.

[Troublemaker]

Was curious that Wojo was losing his center. The guy averaged 3 points and 3 rebounds per game. What?!?

He's going pro in Australia, not the USA.

[awhom111]

So if I understand correctly, an NBA team would draft him in the G League draft, he would play on their G League affiliate for the season, and then he would enter the 2019 NBA Draft where any team can draft him? If that is correct, then why would any team waste a year developing him just so another team can draft him?

I wonder what level of success he would have to have in the G League in order to actually be drafted. I thought I remembered that Quinn was the G League MVP for a couple seasons, and nobody was interested in giving him a contract. If Bazley is good enough to be a starter, would that warrant a draft pick? As we've discussed before, college ball gives a player much more exposure.

I don't really see how Bazley is any less valuable than any other non-NBA contracted G League player. Players do not join the league with the intent to play there multiple years so him playing for a season and then leaving would be normal. It's even better that he isn't planning on leaving midseason for overseas. These days, getting a player who is good enough to stay on your roster for the whole season is a good value for your G League first round pick.

I suspect that his NBA draft position will depend on his workouts and the combine just like a college player. P.J. Hairston was a first round pick as a good, but not transcendent D-League player and with other question marks so I see no reason why Bazley couldn't play his way into a decent pick.


I didn't even realize this was an option. So a player and go straight from HS to the G-League draft a year before he's eligible for the real NBA draft?

it's time for the NBA to put some $$ into G-league, have every NBA team have a G-league team which increased synergy between the NBA club and G-league club. This is one of the changes needed to get rid of the loathsome OAD system.

This has been an option for a very long time, but generally has only been used as a last resort for players who can't go to college and don't want to try overseas. For some reason people just aren't aware of it and keep suggesting that it should be made legal even though it already is.

It's really too late to put more money directly in the G League since the CBA negotiation that could have changed that has already happened, but we have to see what the supposed incoming proposal will include.

I am surprised that no mandatory adoption date for G League affiliates was a part of the negotiation, but we are probably a couple years away naturally since the current league administration has done a great job and teams now fully understand the benefits. We will be at 27 next year with the Pelicans closer than either the Nuggets or the Blazers to joining them.

[BD80]

Cincy 6'6" SG Jacob Evans declares but no agent

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22992136/cincinnati-bearcats-jacob-evans-entering-nba-draft

[miramar]

it's time for the NBA to put some $$ into G-league, have every NBA team have a G-league team which increased synergy between the NBA club and G-league club. This is one of the changes needed to get rid of the loathsome OAD system.
That's basically what the Miami Heat are doing with their Sioux Falls Sky Force affiliate. Pat Riley has even sent some assistant coaches to Sioux Falls so that they will run the same system as the Heat, which makes it easier for the G-League players when they get to Miami. The downside is that the Heat do not have the NBA rights to the entire roster, so other teams can poach players the Heat have developed, including our old friend Larry Drew II:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/fl-sp-miami-heat-sidebar-fri-s20180316-story.html

[907bluedevils]

Jaren Jackson gone.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/23003634/jaren-jackson-jr-michigan-state-spartans-enter-nba-draft

[DU82]

Can we add WNBA early entries? Azura Stevens will leave UConn after playing one season to enter the draft. ( No rule violation, since she’s joining her original class.)

[Kedsy]

Can we add WNBA early entries? Azura Stevens will leave UConn after playing one season to enter the draft. ( No rule violation, since she’s joining her original class.)

Well, I guess she didn't get that guaranteed title for sure, now.

[awhom111]

Can we add WNBA early entries? Azura Stevens will leave UConn after playing one season to enter the draft. ( No rule violation, since she’s joining her original class.)

It would be interesting if anyone ever challenged the current rules. Unlike the men's rules, which are equal for everyone, the WNBA makes "internationals" eligible at 20 and all Americans plus any foreigners who enroll in college for even just a day not eligible until age 22. That has led to an interesting situation in this draft where a foreign prospect who is younger than three of the highly regarded current freshmen could be picked.

Besides Azura, Jill Barta of Gonzaga is finishing college and is in consideration for being drafted in the latter half of the draft. If she does not make the WNBA, she already has a plan to become a special education teacher.

It is interesting how much women's players who leave early often get ripped even though pretty much all of them have made the right choice after we have had the benefit of hindsight. Jewell Loyd left before finishing her degree and she looks to be fine and Aerial Powers, who was ripped by her coach for leaving before getting her degree, definitely made the right choice as she has earned money while dealing with injuries. The interesting case in the near term will be whether Kaela Davis made the right choice to leave South Carolina last year.

[MCFinARL]

It would be interesting if anyone ever challenged the current rules. Unlike the men's rules, which are equal for everyone, the WNBA makes "internationals" eligible at 20 and all Americans plus any foreigners who enroll in college for even just a day not eligible until age 22. That has led to an interesting situation in this draft where a foreign prospect who is younger than three of the highly regarded current freshmen could be picked.

Besides Azura, Jill Barta of Gonzaga is finishing college and is in consideration for being drafted in the latter half of the draft. If she does not make the WNBA, she already has a plan to become a special education teacher.

It is interesting how much women's players who leave early often get ripped even though pretty much all of them have made the right choice after we have had the benefit of hindsight. Jewell Loyd left before finishing her degree and she looks to be fine and Aerial Powers, who was ripped by her coach for leaving before getting her degree, definitely made the right choice as she has earned money while dealing with injuries. The interesting case in the near term will be whether Kaela Davis made the right choice to leave South Carolina last year.

In Azura's case, she may be finishing her degree--since she had 2 years at Duke before transferring and another 2 at UConn, counting the year she sat out.

[CameronBornAndBred]

At least one mock WNBA draft has Azura going 2nd, so it's not like she'd do anything except risk injury and drop by staying.

[Duke95]

Yes as long as we understand that this means Colleges should be praised for being such a superior option, and not criticized for not being even better than it is. Which is what "viable option" term comes in, where because it is so good and better than the other options, it gets faulted for being a monopoly and asked to do even more.

Nothing you wrote here is actually true.

[BigWayne]

So if I understand correctly, an NBA team would draft him in the G League draft, he would play on their G League affiliate for the season, and then he would enter the 2019 NBA Draft where any team can draft him? If that is correct, then why would any team waste a year developing him just so another team can draft him?

I wonder what level of success he would have to have in the G League in order to actually be drafted. I thought I remembered that Quinn was the G League MVP for a couple seasons, and nobody was interested in giving him a contract. If Bazley is good enough to be a starter, would that warrant a draft pick? As we've discussed before, college ball gives a player much more exposure.

G league teams participate in the G league draft. NBA teams do not have exclusive rights to players on G league rosters (even for teams they own) except for the two per year that they sign to two-way contracts. For example, this year at my local Santa Cruz Warriors, they had Georges Niang get assigned to them from Golden State after they cut him coming out of training camp. They were allowed to send him to Santa Cruz bypassing the G league draft, but his contract was with Santa Cruz, not Golden State. Then, mid year, Utah was able to grab him from Santa Cruz by offering him a 2 way contract.

[proelitedota]

Joe Cremo from Albany is the best graduate transfer guard that just became available. 46% from the 3. Nice A/T ratio. 6'4 185. Can be a great backup at the 1 and 2. And start in small ball lineups.

Offensive rating of 120 on Kenpom, which is 10-20 points better than most of the other graduate transfer options.

[robed deity]

Joe Cremo from Albany is the best graduate transfer guard that just became available. 46% from the 3. Nice A/T ratio. 6'4 185. Can be a great backup at the 1 and 2. And start in small ball lineups.

Offensive rating of 120 on Kenpom, which is 10-20 points better than most of the other graduate transfer options.

Hey, and they beat UMBC by about 40 this year! Does that mean if Duke gets him, we'll beat Virginia by 60? Sign him up!

[Natty_B]

Hey, and they beat UMBC by about 40 this year! Does that mean if Duke gets him, we'll beat Virginia by 60? Sign him up!

You can actually find out where a grad transfer might go by looking at The Athletic tracker (https://theathletic.com/290830/2018/04/04/the-fieldhouses-college-basketball-transfer-tracker/) or checking in with Jeff Goodman on twitter. A lot of schools are after Cremo but Duke isn't listed as one. I haven't seen Duke linked to any grad transfer yet.

[Natty_B]

Apparently (and I'm not going to link to any of the trash pro-Kentucky sites that mention this but they are out there) Calipari, who build his brand on encouraging players to go pro, is pitching Kevin Knox to return to school as the 2019 draft class is seen as being very weak (outside Barrett and Reddish).

[Spanarkel]

Both Robinson and Bowman declared today without hiring an agent. This brought back nightmares of that game in the Conte Forum in December '17.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23028863/boston-college-guards-jerome-robinson-ky-bowman-declare-nba-draft-hire-agent

[ipatent]

Malik Newman in with agent.

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2018/apr/04/kansas-guard-malik-newman-enter-nba-draft/

[FerryFor50]

Apparently (and I'm not going to link to any of the trash pro-Kentucky sites that mention this but they are out there) Calipari, who build his brand on encouraging players to go pro, is pitching Kevin Knox to return to school as the 2019 draft class is seen as being very weak (outside Barrett and Reddish).

I'm sure that has zero to do with his confidence in his incoming class of 3 players... :rolleyes:

[CDu]

Malik Newman in with agent.

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2018/apr/04/kansas-guard-malik-newman-enter-nba-draft/

Bad news for Kansas. They could have used his perimeter scoring with Graham and Mykhailiuk gone. As of now, it looks like they will have a bajillion bigs but a very young backcourt.

[Truth&Justise]

Bad news for Kansas. They could have used his perimeter scoring with Graham and Mykhailiuk gone. As of now, it looks like they will have a bajillion bigs but a very young backcourt.

Kansas should still be quite good. And they're still in the running for Romeo Langford.

[CDu]

Kansas should still be quite good. And they're still in the running for Romeo Langford.

I am sure they will be good. They will have lots of good bigs. But they will be really green in the backcourt. Not typically a recipe for success unless you have the best of those young guards.

[ipatent]

I am sure they will be good. They will have lots of good bigs. But they will be really green in the backcourt. Not typically a recipe for success unless you have the best of those young guards.

Heard they have an experienced PG coming in as a transfer. Charlie Moore?

[NSDukeFan]

Kansas should still be quite good. And they're still in the running for Romeo Langford.

Without looking at their lineup, or anyone else's, I expect they should have a reasonable chance of winning the Big 12. 😀

[richardjackson199]

Lonnie Walker in with Agent:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23032281/miami-hurricanes-guard-lonnie-walker-iv-says-enter-nba-draft

[Natty_B]

Joe Cremo from Albany is the best graduate transfer guard that just became available. 46% from the 3. Nice A/T ratio. 6'4 185. Can be a great backup at the 1 and 2. And start in small ball lineups.

Offensive rating of 120 on Kenpom, which is 10-20 points better than most of the other graduate transfer options.

Cremo update! Wojo is involved.

https://mobile.twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/981683744011583489

Duke not getting in the market for any grad transfers, and the time to do so is now, either makes me think K knows who is coming back and is good with it or he just doesn’t like that route.

[Kedsy]

Duke not getting in the market for any grad transfers, and the time to do so is now, either makes me think K knows who is coming back and is good with it or he just doesn’t like that route.

Sounds like you're suggesting that Gary Trent might be back, but I don't think it means that at all. If all the frosh leave but Marques Bolden comes back, or if we get EJ Montgomery -- but especially if both -- there wouldn't be any room in the rotation for anyone else -- any grad transfer would have to beat out Javin DeLaurier for third/fourth big or beat out Alex O'Connell for fifth perimeter option (this is without Trent). Not a very enticing scenario for someone leaving his school for a big opportunity in his final season.

[Natty_B]

Sounds like you're suggesting that Gary Trent might be back, but I don't think it means that at all. If all the frosh leave but Marques Bolden comes back, or if we get EJ Montgomery -- but especially if both -- there wouldn't be any room in the rotation for anyone else -- any grad transfer would have to beat out Javin DeLaurier for third/fourth big or beat out Alex O'Connell for fifth perimeter option (this is without Trent). Not a very enticing scenario for someone leaving his school for a big opportunity in his final season.

I can see how it seems like that but I didn’t mean to imply that. I would be surprised if Trent Jr stays but who knows for sure (Sam Vecenie of The Athletic said he asked around this weekend at the FF and nobody knew). I guess my point, if there is one, is that grad transfer doesn’t look like it’s happening for Duke because the schools that are looking that way (Wake, Louisville, Arizona to name a few) are already getting into it. Duke could move fast but not that fast.

[JasonEvans]

Heard they have an experienced PG coming in as a transfer. Charlie Moore?

Kansas has become transfer U. Yes, they have Cal transfer Charlie Moore coming in. He averaged better than 12 ppg and 3.5 rpg for Cal. They also have Memphis transfers Dedric and K.J. Lawson, who are beasts on the boards and can score a good bit too (combined for 30+ ppg and 19 rpg at Memphis).

[Channing]

Kansas has become transfer U. Yes, they have Cal transfer Charlie Moore coming in. He averaged better than 12 ppg and 3.5 rpg for Cal. They also have Memphis transfers Dedric and K.J. Lawson, who are beasts on the boards and can score a good bit too (combined for 30+ ppg and 19 rpg at Memphis).

And I guess Mississippi State has become "1-transfer-another-1-and-done" U

[TexHawk]

I am sure they will be good. They will have lots of good bigs. But they will be really green in the backcourt. Not typically a recipe for success unless you have the best of those young guards.

It's going to be fascinating. Another in the long line of reasons why I love having Bill Self as our coach. He has put together some good teams with crazy lineups over the last 10 years. Some with great post depth, others with no depth, 4 guard lineups & 4 forward lineups. Perimeter shooting-centric offenses to heavy hi-low post offenses. (Though I agree that next year's team will be among his worst in perimeter shooting, possibly THE worst.)

I suspect Newman leaving will put a lot of pressure on Quentin Grimes, McDAA out of Texas. I know a Texas recruiting guy who thinks he belongs in the conversation with the Duke trio. Others are less high, over some concerns over his maturity.

I am excited to see Devon Dotson, who looked 2X faster than anyone else on the McDAA court, and can maybe/hopefully follow the Mason/Graham PG train. Thanks for letting him out of North Carolina!

[CDu]

It's going to be fascinating. Another in the long line of reasons why I love having Bill Self as our coach. He has put together some good teams with crazy lineups over the last 10 years. Some with great post depth, others with no depth, 4 guard lineups & 4 forward lineups. Perimeter shooting-centric offenses to heavy hi-low post offenses. (Though I agree that next year's team will be among his worst in perimeter shooting, possibly THE worst.)

I suspect Newman leaving will put a lot of pressure on Quentin Grimes, McDAA out of Texas. I know a Texas recruiting guy who thinks he belongs in the conversation with the Duke trio. Others are less high, over some concerns over his maturity.

I am excited to see Devon Dotson, who looked 2X faster than anyone else on the McDAA court, and can maybe/hopefully follow the Mason/Graham PG train. Thanks for letting him out of North Carolina!

Yeah, I mean, I don't expect Kansas to be bad at all. Self is a great coach, they will have great talent and a TON of options in the frontcourt. But it's a virtual 360 from this year's team which was dripping with backcourt experience and shooting and light on frontcourt depth to next year with basically the opposite. Should be interesting.

[Bluedog]

But it's a virtual 360 from this year's team which was dripping with backcourt experience and shooting and light on frontcourt depth to next year with basically the opposite. Should be interesting.

Are you sure it's a 360? ;)

(That would mean they end up in the same place.... Not the opposite).

[camion]

Are you sure it's a 360? ;)

(That would mean they end up in the same place... Not the opposite).

Okay how about an inverted backside 540 while grabbing Mute?

[cato]

Okay how about an inverted backside 540 while grabbing Mute?

I thought that was illegal in Kansas.

[CDu]

Are you sure it's a 360? ;)

(That would mean they end up in the same place... Not the opposite).

I am a dufus :)

[PackMan97]

Okay how about an inverted backside 540 while grabbing Mute?

Just don't try that in Wake County. My wife lost a great great uncle last year to someone driving the wrong way on the insterstate. He wasn't a mute though, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

[ipatent]

Kevin Knox is leaving KY for the NBA, per his tweet.

[wk2109]

KU's Lagerald Vick is gone and is expected to sign with an agent.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/2018-nba-draft-kansas-lagerald-vick-declares-and-is-expected-to-sign-with-an-agent/

[DavidBenAkiva]

Kevin Knox is leaving KY for the NBA, per his tweet.

There was some chatter that Calipari was pushing hard to get Knox to stay for another year. That cuts against everything that he has said over the years about wanting to get his kids to the NBA as fast as possible. Knox is a lottery or at least mid-first round talent. He should go. As should Shai Gilgeous-Alexander. Hamidou Diallo is the type of player that should stay. He was inconsistent and hasn't shown that he can translate his physical gifts onto the court yet. But most people seem to expect him to leave anyway.

The real questions start to emerge for Kentucky if their frontcourt players go to the draft, in particular Jarred Vanderbilt and P.J. Washington. Both had injury and other issues this year. Washington appears to be the player with the higher ceiling with great length and explosiveness if a little raw on offense. The Wildcats don't have a frontcourt player to replace either of them in the Class of 2018 so far, so they would have to do without or work the transfer markets.

If Kentucky loses Knox, Gilgeous-Alexander, Diallo, and Washingotn, things might get a little hot for John Calipari. They will have plenty of guards but not necessarily a deep or particularly talented group of players by recent Kentucky standards. After the upset this year to Kansas State in the Sweet 16, another year missing the Final Four might start to make fans in Lexington turn up the chatter on Calipari. The system worked for the first few years but appears to be wobbling just a little of late.

[DavidBenAkiva]

KU's Lagerald Vick is gone and is expected to sign with an agent.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/2018-nba-draft-kansas-lagerald-vick-declares-and-is-expected-to-sign-with-an-agent/

First Newman and now Vick. Kansas was not a deep team and is losing 80% of its starters, including almost all of its guards. Most of the preseason polls I've seen have Kansas as #1 but I wonder if that will be the case come the fall.

The Jayhawks have had the benefit of experienced guards the past few seasons with Frank Mason III and Devonte' Graham. Now they will be relying on a pair of freshman in Devon Dotson and Quentin Grimes. They are still hard after Romeo Langford, along with Vanderbilt and Indiana. Even if they land him, there won't be a ton of experience in the backcourt.

In the frontcourt, Kansas will have Dedric and K.J. Lawson on the wings to pair with a sturdy frontcourt of Udoka Azubuike, Silvio DeSousa, Mitch Lightfoot, and freshman David McCormack. That's a good rotation of bigs and one that should get Kansas back to Self's more traditional two-big lineup. I just wonder if the guards will be as capable of knocking down shots to keep defenders honest. Dedric Lawson is a great player, but guards are key in March.

[jimsumner]

The more of Knox, Vanderbilt and Washington, Calipari loses to the NBA this season, the greater are his chances of signing Montgomery.

FWIW.

[CDu]

First Newman and now Vick. Kansas was not a deep team and is losing 80% of its starters, including almost all of its guards. Most of the preseason polls I've seen have Kansas as #1 but I wonder if that will be the case come the fall.

The Jayhawks have had the benefit of experienced guards the past few seasons with Frank Mason III and Devonte' Graham. Now they will be relying on a pair of freshman in Devon Dotson and Quentin Grimes. They are still hard after Romeo Langford, along with Vanderbilt and Indiana. Even if they land him, there won't be a ton of experience in the backcourt.

In the frontcourt, Kansas will have Dedric and K.J. Lawson on the wings to pair with a sturdy frontcourt of Udoka Azubuike, Silvio DeSousa, Mitch Lightfoot, and freshman David McCormack. That's a good rotation of bigs and one that should get Kansas back to Self's more traditional two-big lineup. I just wonder if the guards will be as capable of knocking down shots to keep defenders honest. Dedric Lawson is a great player, but guards are key in March.

They also have a guard who transferred from Cal (Charlie Moore). But yeah, the backcourt is going to be the glaring question for the Jayhawks next year. Sort of the opposite problem as this year.

[kAzE]

The more of Knox, Vanderbilt and Washington, Calipari loses to the NBA this season, the greater are his chances of signing Montgomery.

FWIW.

I dunno. If the cupboard is really THAT bare, he might go somewhere else just to avoid being on a mediocre team. Hopefully he can turn down the paycheck Calipari offers him ;)

[ipatent]

NBA draft tracker: Who's in and who's testing? (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23048470/2018-nba-draft-testing)

[TexHawk]

First Newman and now Vick. Kansas was not a deep team and is losing 80% of its starters, including almost all of its guards. Most of the preseason polls I've seen have Kansas as #1 but I wonder if that will be the case come the fall.


Vick doesn't move the needle either way, he's not strong enough with the ball in his hands to be the #1 option in an offense. He had a decent game against you guys, but he was a bit of a train wreck after New Years. He had the potential to be a pest on defense with his length, but he didn't even get off the bus in San Antonio, and we really could have used him.

Vick would have been nice to have around for experience, but he'd be taking reps from Grimes and probably a Lawson. Looks like our scholarship problems are solved, if Romeo was worried about that. :)

As far as rankings go, if Langford lands at KU, that's probably enough to put us at preseason #1, but nobody really cares about that. Villanova and KU start a noncon series next year, and they come to Lawrence in mid-December, which should be a really good test for both sides.

[richardjackson199]

Miami's Bruce Brown in draft and hiring agent:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23094154/bruce-brown-miami-enter-nba-draft-sign-agent

[flyingdutchdevil]

Vick doesn't move the needle either way, he's not strong enough with the ball in his hands to be the #1 option in an offense. He had a decent game against you guys, but he was a bit of a train wreck after New Years. He had the potential to be a pest on defense with his length, but he didn't even get off the bus in San Antonio, and we really could have used him.

Vick would have been nice to have around for experience, but he'd be taking reps from Grimes and probably a Lawson. Looks like our scholarship problems are solved, if Romeo was worried about that. :)

As far as rankings go, if Langford lands at KU, that's probably enough to put us at preseason #1, but nobody really cares about that. Villanova and KU start a noncon series next year, and they come to Lawrence in mid-December, which should be a really good test for both sides.

KU could lose everyone this year and they'd still win the B12.

Hats off to Self for being the most versatile coach in the country. The B12 was a bloodbath this year and, as usual, KU won.

[dudog84]

First Newman and now Vick. Kansas was not a deep team and is losing 80% of its starters, including almost all of its guards. Most of the preseason polls I've seen have Kansas as #1 but I wonder if that will be the case come the fall.

The Jayhawks have had the benefit of experienced guards the past few seasons with Frank Mason III and Devonte' Graham. Now they will be relying on a pair of freshman in Devon Dotson and Quentin Grimes. They are still hard after Romeo Langford, along with Vanderbilt and Indiana. Even if they land him, there won't be a ton of experience in the backcourt.

In the frontcourt, Kansas will have Dedric and K.J. Lawson on the wings to pair with a sturdy frontcourt of Udoka Azubuike, Silvio DeSousa, Mitch Lightfoot, and freshman David McCormack. That's a good rotation of bigs and one that should get Kansas back to Self's more traditional two-big lineup. I just wonder if the guards will be as capable of knocking down shots to keep defenders honest. Dedric Lawson is a great player, but guards are key in March.

And we know what a predictor that is.

Sorry. Too soon?

[richardjackson199]

Shai Gilgous-Alexander from UK gone to NBA draft:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23094736/shai-gilgeous-alexander-kentucky-wildcats-entering-nba-draft

[DavidBenAkiva]

Shai Gilgous-Alexander from UK gone to NBA draft:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23094736/shai-gilgeous-alexander-kentucky-wildcats-entering-nba-draft

No surprise about that one. By the end of the year, SGA was the best and most consistent player for Kentucky. Hats off to him for putting himself in this position. I expect that Hamidou Diallo will be announcing soon, too. And the Wildcats had some other big news today as E.J. Montgomery committed and Sacha Killeya-Jones announced that he will be transferring. I have a hunch that at least one of P.J. Washington (more likely) and Jarred Vanderbilt will also bolt for the NBA draft this year, too. Wenyen "I had the courage to say no to Duke" Gabriel will be the only junior and upperclass player on the roster next year for Kentucky. They will continue to be young, quick, and athletic. But it's not clear if they will be any good.

[fraggler]

No surprise about that one. By the end of the year, SGA was the best and most consistent player for Kentucky. Hats off to him for putting himself in this position. I expect that Hamidou Diallo will be announcing soon, too. And the Wildcats had some other big news today as E.J. Montgomery committed and Sacha Killeya-Jones announced that he will be transferring. I have a hunch that at least one of P.J. Washington (more likely) and Jarred Vanderbilt will also bolt for the NBA draft this year, too. Wenyen "I had the courage to say no to Duke" Gabriel will be the only junior and upperclass player on the roster next year for Kentucky. They will continue to be young, quick, and athletic. But it's not clear if they will be any good.

Sacha should have stayed with UVA. They both could have really benefited from each other.

[Spanarkel]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23099657/villanova-wildcats-all-america-forward-mikal-bridges-bypass-senior-season-enter-nba-draft

No surprise here(he's graduating in May and will turn 22 in August).

[flyingdutchdevil]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23099657/villanova-wildcats-all-america-forward-mikal-bridges-bypass-senior-season-enter-nba-draft

No surprise here(he's graduating in May and will turn 22 in August).

This dude is amazing. Rare to find an upperclassman these days who is a terror on both offense AND defense.

The 76ers could absolutely use a guy like him.

[UrinalCake]

Jalen Brunson gone. No surprise there, as he has graduated in three years, won two National Titles, and done just about everything you can do at the college level.

[Troublemaker]

Jon Rothstein‏Verified account @JonRothstein (https://twitter.com/JonRothstein) 34m34 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/984831469142069248)
Kentucky's Hamidou Diallo is expected to sign with an agent and enter the 2018 NBA Draft, per multiple sources. Official announcement expected soon. #BBN (https://twitter.com/hashtag/BBN?src=hash)

[flyingdutchdevil]

Jon Rothstein‏Verified account @JonRothstein (https://twitter.com/JonRothstein) 34m34 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/984831469142069248)
Kentucky's Hamidou Diallo is expected to sign with an agent and enter the 2018 NBA Draft, per multiple sources. Official announcement expected soon. #BBN (https://twitter.com/hashtag/BBN?src=hash)


Shocker.

I kinda feel bad for highly rated UK recruits like Wenyen Gabriel who stick around only to see all of their peers leave for the NBA.

And then I remember Marques Bolden...

[luvdahops]

Jon Rothstein‏Verified account @JonRothstein (https://twitter.com/JonRothstein) 34m34 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/984831469142069248)
Kentucky's Hamidou Diallo is expected to sign with an agent and enter the 2018 NBA Draft, per multiple sources. Official announcement expected soon. #BBN (https://twitter.com/hashtag/BBN?src=hash)


Not at all surprised, but color me pretty unimpressed with Diallo as a player. He is very athletic, but does not have standout skills in any area. Averaged 10.0 points, 3.6 boards and 1.2 assists in 24.8 minutes per game for a UK team that struggled to score at times. Shot 45.8% on 2s, 33.8% on 3s and 61.1% from the line, and had an A/TO ratio of 0.90. Certainly not the profile of an immediate impact player at the NBA level in my view.

[scottdude8]

Mo Wagner going pro with an agent... and my heart is broken. I was convinced he was coming back to Michigan given his fringe draft status and his relationship with Beilein.

Wolverines should still be a top 25, potentially top 10, team given all of the returning youth plus Beilein’s best incoming recruiting class ever. But we’d have been one of the top national title contenders if Moe came back. Darn.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Mo Wagner going pro with an agent... and my heart is broken. I was convinced he was coming back to Michigan given his fringe draft status and his relationship with Beilein.

Wolverines should still be a top 25, potentially top 10, team given all of the returning youth plus Beilein’s best incoming recruiting class ever. But we’d have been one of the top national title contenders if Moe came back. Darn.

Beilein is building a very strong program there that seems to find ways to overachieve. I think you don't need to fret.

[richardjackson199]

Agree. The Lithuanian-Canadian on the World team last night had a game eerily reminiscent of Wagner. He was even more impressive in the scrimmage practice I watched. He shoots well from 3 and is tough inside. He'll fit right into Beilein's system. Future is bright for Wolverines hoops in Big 10.

[scottdude8]

Beilein is building a very strong program there that seems to find ways to overachieve. I think you don't need to fret.

Definitely not fretting. But if Mo came back we’d have returned a vast majority of the contributors of a national runner up team, plus the incomers. That would’ve been a potential once-in-a-generation team. As it stands, we still should be B1G favorites next year (even if the polls will give it to MSU since the media is so infatuated with Izzo, haha). I’m still super excited about that potential :)

[scottdude8]

Agree. The Lithuanian-Canadian on the World team last night had a game eerily reminiscent of Wagner. He was even more impressive in the scrimmage practice I watched. He shoots well from 3 and is tough inside. He'll fit right into Beilein's system. Future is bright for Wolverines hoops in Big 10.

Iggy? Yeah we are all super psyched about him. He’s a bit smaller (only 6-foot-7) but he’s already got a college ready body at 235 pounds. Plus all reports from the Hoop Summit was he was one of the best three point shooters there, period. He’ll likely be the sixth man for us this year, and a key factor in whether Michigan contends for a conference title or a national title.

[Natty_B]

Wake loses Doral Moore who is signing with an agent.

https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/986309224769744896

[UrinalCake]

Spellman from Villanova also declared without an agent.

[duke4ever19]

Wake loses Doral Moore who is signing with an agent.

https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/986309224769744896

Bad news for Danny and the Deacs. I didn't expect to see Moore put his name in, but it looks like he's not going to even test the waters.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Bad news for Danny and the Deacs. I didn't expect to see Moore put his name in, but it looks like he's not going to even test the waters.

I didn't expect Manning to survive this off-season. And with Moore gone for next year, I can't see how Manning survives next year.

[SavDukeGrad]

Bad news for Danny and the Deacs. I didn't expect to see Moore put his name in, but it looks like he's not going to even test the waters.

Really bad news for the Deacs. I wasn't surprised Moore put his name in, but I thought he would test the waters and come back. Really surprised he hired an agent.

[Troublemaker]

I didn't expect Manning to survive this off-season. And with Moore gone for next year, I can't see how Manning survives next year.

He can survive by making the NCAA tournament. Easier said than done, sure, but not impossible. Manning can either go the grad transfer route for a center or he can coach up someone that's already on the roster (Oliver Sarr?); I mean, Moore really had been a disappointing player until this season, and if there's one thing Manning can do, it's develop the center position. Center was supposed to be a weakness THIS season until Moore improved dramatically. Most importantly, though, Jaylen Hoard was a star during the Hoop Summit practices and game. He's going to provide Wake a dynamic PF that it was missing last season. Bryant Crawford's going to be a senior and Brandon Childress is going to be a junior; they'll have the backcourt necessary. If Moore had stayed, I was going to pick Wake as a sleeper contender to be top-6 in the ACC.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Really bad news for the Deacs. I wasn't surprised Moore put his name in, but I thought he would test the waters and come back. Really surprised he hired an agent.
He better be a really good agent.

[arnie]

He better be a really good agent.

Yea I was gonna ask “who is Doral Moore”?

[El_Diablo]

Yea I was gonna ask “who is Doral Moore”?

He's the big guy who went for 18 points (9-for-9 from the field) and 12 rebounds against us in Winston-Salem. He could definitely use some polish, but he's 7-1 with good athleticism...I am not shocked by his decision.

[olegreg]

Has cam johnson declared for the draft?

[devildeac]

Has cam johnson declared for the draft?

ol roy thinks he needs another year to develop?

:rolleyes:

[UrinalCake]

Only players who make the Final Four get drafted. Johnson will be back.

[UrinalCake]

Purdue freshman Nojel Eastern has declared. Averaged 2.9 points and 2.5 rebounds. He’s getting lit up on social media.

[scottdude8]

Purdue freshman Nojel Eastern has declared. Averaged 2.9 points and 2.5 rebounds. He’s getting lit up on social media.

Wow. If he and Carsen Edwards stay in the draft, Purdue will be losing more than even we are (Edwards plus four seniors made up Purdue’s starting lineup). Besides my Wolverines the B1G could be facing another major down year.

[Newton_14]

He can survive by making the NCAA tournament. Easier said than done, sure, but not impossible. Manning can either go the grad transfer route for a center or he can coach up someone that's already on the roster (Oliver Sarr?); I mean, Moore really had been a disappointing player until this season, and if there's one thing Manning can do, it's develop the center position. Center was supposed to be a weakness THIS season until Moore improved dramatically. Most importantly, though, Jaylen Hoard was a star during the Hoop Summit practices and game. He's going to provide Wake a dynamic PF that it was missing last season. Bryant Crawford's going to be a senior and Brandon Childress is going to be a junior; they'll have the backcourt necessary. If Moore had stayed, I was going to pick Wake as a sleeper contender to be top-6 in the ACC.

Good grief Trouble, Bryant Crawford was a senior back when Grayson/Stones/JustiseIsServed/Oak were freshmen. How many Sr seasons they going to let that old man play?

[ncexnyc]

Wake loses Doral Moore who is signing with an agent.

https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/986309224769744896

You have to wonder who was whispering in this kid's ear.

I watched a number of Wake game this past season and while he's a very good college center I don't believe his skillset translates well to the new NBA.

He seemed extremely foul prone and he definitely had issues with his stamina.

[English]

UK's Wenyen Gabriel has declared, but will not hire an agent...yet*.


*That little "...yet" teaser was actually included in Jeff Goodman's tweet this afternoon about it. Judgment on my part about what that may mean withheld....for now.

[flyingdutchdevil]

UK's Wenyen Gabriel has declared, but will not hire an agent...yet*.


*That little "...yet" teaser was actually included in Jeff Goodman's tweet this afternoon about it. Judgment on my part about what that may mean withheld...for now.

Bolden and Langford of MSU are the only top 20 players in the '16 class to not have declared or already be in the NBA.

[ipatent]

Cam Johnson unfortunately returning.

https://247sports.com/college/north-carolina/Article/North-Carolina-Tar-Heels-UNCs-Cameron-Johnson-Returning-for-Senior-Season--117464470

[NSDukeFan]

Cam Johnson unfortunately returning.

https://247sports.com/college/north-carolina/Article/North-Carolina-Tar-Heels-UNCs-Cameron-Johnson-Returning-for-Senior-Season--117464470

To Pitt? I can dream?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

So... What's the body count thus far? Do we yet have more early entrants than draft picks?

[BD80]

To Pitt? I can dream?

Lessee, a graduate transfer requires the transferee school have a graduate program with a different "field" of study, "classroom" would be different from any field unc students attend.

[Indoor66]

That could be any field!

[JasonEvans]

So... What's the body count thus far? Do we yet have more early entrants than draft picks?

We have more early entrants than draft spots all the time nowadays. Last year, there were 137 college underclassmen and 45 international players who declared for the draft (http://www.nba.com/article/2017/04/25/nba-announces-early-entry-candidates-2017-nba-draft). There are exactly 60 spots available to be drafted and at least a few of them go to college seniors.

For many of these kids, it is not about being drafted and playing right away in the NBA. It is about moving your career into a pro arena, either overseas or in the G-League. They simply don't want to play for free in college any longer.

-Jason "nothing wrong with it... college ain't for everyone" Evans

[JasonEvans]

...and at least a few of them go to college seniors.

It is entirely possible that not a single senior will be taken in the first round this year. Grayson is generally seen as the top senior on the board and he is a late first rounder in most mocks. Other seniors who could go in the first round, but are mostly projected as second rounders are:

Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, Kansas
Devonte Graham, Kansas
Jevon Carter, W. Virginia
Chandler Hutchison, Boise St.
Vince Edwards, Purdue
Trevon Bluiett, Xavier
Bonzie Colson, Notre Dame
Yante Maten, Georgia
and Theo Pinson, UNC

Last year, Derrick White and Josh Hart were the only 2 seniors in the first round, going with the last 2 picks of the round. There have been seniors in the lottery pretty much every year before that with guys like CJ McCollum, Frank Kaminsky, Doug McDermott, and Buddy Hield leading the way. This year could be the first first round with zero seniors.

-Jason "am I missing anyone?" Evans

[dudog84]

We have more early entrants than draft spots all the time nowadays. Last year, there were 137 college underclassmen and 45 international players who declared for the draft (http://www.nba.com/article/2017/04/25/nba-announces-early-entry-candidates-2017-nba-draft). There are exactly 60 spots available to be drafted and at least a few of them go to college seniors.

For many of these kids, it is not about being drafted and playing right away in the NBA. It is about moving your career into a pro arena, either overseas or in the G-League. They simply don't want to play for free in college any longer.

-Jason "nothing wrong with it... college ain't for everyone" Evans

The only thing free is their room and board. Add in the free education, it's worth a heck of a lot more than a G-League salary. But yes, it's not for everyone.

Edit: I'm obviously talking about a real education at a real institution, not whatever they're getting at uNC.

[CDu]

It is entirely possible that not a single senior will be taken in the first round this year. Grayson is generally seen as the top senior on the board and he is a late first rounder in most mocks. Other seniors who could go in the first round, but are mostly projected as second rounders are:

Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, Kansas
Devonte Graham, Kansas
Jevon Carter, W. Virginia
Chandler Hutchison, Boise St.
Vince Edwards, Purdue
Trevon Bluiett, Xavier
Bonzie Colson, Notre Dame
Yante Maten, Georgia
and Theo Pinson, UNC

Last year, Derrick White and Josh Hart were the only 2 seniors in the first round, going with the last 2 picks of the round. There have been seniors in the lottery pretty much every year before that with guys like CJ McCollum, Frank Kaminsky, Doug McDermott, and Buddy Hield leading the way. This year could be the first first round with zero seniors.

-Jason "am I missing anyone?" Evans

Technically not a senior in terms of eligibility, Mikal Bridges is a 4th year player.

[Duke79UNLV77]

It is entirely possible that not a single senior will be taken in the first round this year. Grayson is generally seen as the top senior on the board and he is a late first rounder in most mocks. Other seniors who could go in the first round, but are mostly projected as second rounders are:

Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk, Kansas
Devonte Graham, Kansas
Jevon Carter, W. Virginia
Chandler Hutchison, Boise St.
Vince Edwards, Purdue
Trevon Bluiett, Xavier
Bonzie Colson, Notre Dame
Yante Maten, Georgia
and Theo Pinson, UNC

Last year, Derrick White and Josh Hart were the only 2 seniors in the first round, going with the last 2 picks of the round. There have been seniors in the lottery pretty much every year before that with guys like CJ McCollum, Frank Kaminsky, Doug McDermott, and Buddy Hield leading the way. This year could be the first first round with zero seniors.

-Jason "am I missing anyone?" Evans

Is Swofford going to pull some strings and let Berry come back for another year? Sure wish he’d stayed in the draft 2 years ago.

[UrinalCake]

Donte DiVincenzo has declared without an agent. If he’s trying to “strike while the iron is hot” then it’s hard to imagine a better time for him to go. Nova with a couple moving parts still in play between him and Spellman that could drastically swing their season.

[CDu]

Donte DiVincenzo has declared without an agent. If he’s trying to “strike while the iron is hot” then it’s hard to imagine a better time for him to go. Nova with a couple moving parts still in play between him and Spellman that could drastically swing their season.

Yeah, they have already lost their two best players (Brunson and Bridges). Losing Spellman and DiVincenzo would be devastating.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Donte DiVincenzo has declared without an agent. If he’s trying to “strike while the iron is hot” then it’s hard to imagine a better time for him to go. Nova with a couple moving parts still in play between him and Spellman that could drastically swing their season.

If Spellman and DiVincenzo return, Villanova should be a good team and possibly the preseason #1 team. I'm not sure they will be the best team in the country as they have definitely lost their point guard and star wing player in Jalen Brunson and Mikal Bridges. Just losing those two is hard enough to replace as the Wildcats only went 7 deep. They are replacing those two with highly touted freshmen Jahvon Quinerly and Cole Swider. If Spellman and DiVincenzo both stay in the draft, that would be a big blow. Losing 4 of their top 7 players might be too much for Nova to sustain. They will be good but how good remains to be seen.

[ipatent]

KU's Azuibuke going w/o an agent.

[ipatent]

UK's Jarred Vanderbilt in w/o an agent. He missed most of last season with foot/ankle problems and needs offseason surgery.

That makes three UK frontline players in without an agent....Vanderbilt, PJ Washington and Wenyen Gabriel.

[DarkstarWahoo]

DeAndre Hunter is staying at UVA. I know elite recruiting helps, but I don't know how you guys go through this every year.

[Troublemaker]

DeAndre Hunter is staying at UVA. I know elite recruiting helps, but I don't know how you guys go through this every year.

You just assume they're gone so there's no stress. Congrats on Hunter returning. He could be a better NBA prospect than any of the Duke foursome that's leaving, considering how the NBA requires big switchable wings these days. Depends on how his shot develops but 76% from FT and 38% from three (on limited attempts) is promising.

[Natty_B]

Tyus Battle declares with no agent. They're coming fast now with the deadline approaching (which I think is Sunday at 11:59).

[DarkstarWahoo]

You just assume they're gone so there's no stress.

I figured this would be the case.