Favorite Player Poll- Amaker vs Verga

[JasonEvans]

Here we have the #10 seed versus the #23 seed in battle of legends. Tommy Amaker, the ideal point-guard whose ability to steal the ball was a real weapon versus Bob Verga, one of the great scoring guards in Duke history and a guy who was first-team All-ACC in every season he played basketball.

We already saw one old-timer, Art Heyman, give Shelden Williams all he could handle. Can Verga do the same?

--Jason "vote early, vote often" Evans

[gw67]

Ouch! These are two of my favorites. I remember visiting a friend for a summer cookout and walking over to a nearby private school to see his son play a summer league game. It turns out that they played a bunch of kids from W.T.Woodson, including a short (5-6 or 5-7) point guard. Amaker was probably a freshman or sophmore in high school at the time and even then he was a team player who distributed the ball and was a pest on defense.

Verga is the best Duke player who doesn't have his jersey retired, IMO. He had an unstoppable jump shot and his scoring records would have been even greater if there was a three-point shot. Many think that the Verga, Marin, Vacendak, Lewis team would have won the NCAA Championship if Verga had not been sick.

Tough decision but I will go with the local kid from my favorite Duke team, Amaker.

gw67

[Jfrosh]

Only knowing Verga by reputation, it is hard to vote against Tommy. Tommy and JD are my all time favorite backcourt. I just loved that '86 team.

[hurleyfor3]

My criterion in this kind of debate is: which player was more like Bobby Hurley?

Amaker was a modern-era point guard... but Verga wore number 11.

I'm stuck.

[throatybeard]

I wouldn't characterize this as an old-timer v. a non- old timer. We've learned that a lot of people don't even know who played in the 80s, so I would characterize this as an old-timer and a mid-timer.

[dw0827]

I wish more people could have seen some of these older guys . . . Heyman, Verga, Mullins, Vacendak, et al . . . they were really good but have no chance in these polls.

Verga could shoot. Really really shoot. Funny release, though.

I go with the old guy . . . they aren't getting enough love here . . .

[greybeard]

Vacendak, going away. Why do I remember that Verga was all right hand? Is that right? Marin might well have been the cleverest player Duke has had.

[Olympic Fan]

I was a kid during the Bubas era, so I worshiped all those guys. In my memory, there was a pecking order:

1. Heyman
2. Mullins
3. Verga
4. Marin
5. Vacendak
6. Lewis

As I got older and looked at it, that order pretty much holds up ... with one exception. I'd have to say you can made a fair case that Verga, not Mullins, deserves to be ranked No. 2 from the Bubas era. Verga was a consensus second-team A-A in 1966 and a concensus first-team pick in 1967. Mullins made a few furst teams in 1964, but he was just a consensus second-team pick.

He did, however, win an ACC POY of the award ... Verga was screwed out of the one he should have won in 1966 by a bizarre vote.

Verga averaged 26.1 ppg. as a senior and 22.0 for his career. Mullins averaged 24.2 as a senior and 21.9 for his career.

Real tough call ... Mullins was clearly a better rebounder as a forward and he probably defended better. But Verga was also a distributor -- both he and Vacendak were combo guards.

The thing I'll remember about Verga is his personality. Think "Otter" from Animal House. Every time I see the scene where the frat boys take their dates to the Dexter Lake Club, I think of Verga, who was a regular at the Stallion Club -- a black nightclub way out Cornwallis Road. Only with Verga, it wasn't a one-time thing -- he was a regular.

During his senior year, most of the team got caught at a New Year's Eve party and were suspended for one game by Bubas. Verga, who wasn't at the party (the rumors I heard at the time was that he was at the Stallion Vlub all night), started against Penn State along with CB Claiborne (who played sparingly that year, Fred Lind (who didn't play at all that year) and a couple of other scrubinis. Verga scored 38 and Duke beat Penn State with its scrubs.

But his greatest moment was in a comeback against Michigan (with Cazzie Russell and Bill Buntin) in Cobo Hall Detroit in December of 65 and 41-point game against Ohio State and, of course, against UCLA in back to back wins that made Duke No. 1 in the nation for the first time.

No question in my mind that if Verga plays at full speed, Duke beats Kentucky in the 1966 Final Four. I can't guarantee they'd have beaten Texas Western in the Finals, but a healthy Duke would have played them a lot tougher than Rupp's Runts.

[killerleft]

Bob Verga. He was my hero during my early teen years.

[bird]

Gotta go with the 1986 team.

[MulletMan]

Verga. Amaker was great, but if you study up on Verga (for those who didn't see him) you will truly understand just how special he was.

[JasonEvans]

No question in my mind that if Verga plays at full speed, Duke beats Kentucky in the 1966 Final Four. I can't guarantee they'd have beaten Texas Western in the Finals, but a healthy Duke would have played them a lot tougher than Rupp's Runts.

For the sake of our historical reputation, I am glad we were not the lilly white team that lost to the first all-black team in the Final Four. I am happy to let Adolph Rupp and Kentucky be the historical faces of racism in college basketball.

--Jason "it is not like Eddie Cameron was a saint" Evans

[Indoor66]

I was a kid during the Bubas era, so I worshiped all those guys. In my memory, there was a pecking order:

1. Heyman
2. Mullins
3. Verga
4. Marin
5. Vacendak
6. Lewis

As I got older and looked at it, that order pretty much holds up ... with one exception. I'd have to say you can made a fair case that Verga, not Mullins, deserves to be ranked No. 2 from the Bubas era. Verga was a consensus second-team A-A in 1966 and a concensus first-team pick in 1967. Mullins made a few furst teams in 1964, but he was just a consensus second-team pick.

He did, however, win an ACC POY of the award ... Verga was screwed out of the one he should have won in 1966 by a bizarre vote.

Verga averaged 26.1 ppg. as a senior and 22.0 for his career. Mullins averaged 24.2 as a senior and 21.9 for his career.

Real tough call ... Mullins was clearly a better rebounder as a forward and he probably defended better. But Verga was also a distributor -- both he and Vacendak were combo guards.

The thing I'll remember about Verga is his personality. Think "Otter" from Animal House. Every time I see the scene where the frat boys take their dates to the Dexter Lake Club, I think of Verga, who was a regular at the Stallion Club -- a black nightclub way out Cornwallis Road. Only with Verga, it wasn't a one-time thing -- he was a regular.

During his senior year, most of the team got caught at a New Year's Eve party and were suspended for one game by Bubas. Verga, who wasn't at the party (the rumors I heard at the time was that he was at the Stallion Vlub all night), started against Penn State along with CB Claiborne (who played sparingly that year, Fred Lind (who didn't play at all that year) and a couple of other scrubinis. Verga scored 38 and Duke beat Penn State with its scrubs.

But his greatest moment was in a comeback against Michigan (with Cazzie Russell and Bill Buntin) in Cobo Hall Detroit in December of 65 and 41-point game against Ohio State and, of course, against UCLA in back to back wins that made Duke No. 1 in the nation for the first time.

No question in my mind that if Verga plays at full speed, Duke beats Kentucky in the 1966 Final Four. I can't guarantee they'd have beaten Texas Western in the Finals, but a healthy Duke would have played them a lot tougher than Rupp's Runts.


Duke Blue Devils Basketball Statistical Database
All-Time Record: 1821-804 • 724-368 Conference • 810-183 Home • 482-391 Away • 373-157 Neutral




Player Database | Season Database




1/3/1967 • Durham, N.C. (Indoor Stadium)
Duke
89 Penn State
84
Team 1st H 2nd H Total
Duke 51 38 89
Penn State 41 43 84



Duke (5-4)
Field Goals 3-Point FGs Free Throws Rebounds
Player GS Min FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OR-DR TR PF Ast TO Blk Stl Pts
Robert Verga 40 16-31 0-0 6-8 1-6 7 1 2 4 0 0 38
Stuart McKaig 40 4-6 0-0 0-1 1-3 4 0 1 1 0 0 8
C.B. Claiborne 40 6-16 0-0 1-1 2-4 6 2 0 2 0 0 13
Fred Lind 22 3-5 0-0 3-4 0-4 4 0 0 2 0 0 9
Steve Vandenberg 40 7-17 0-0 2-3 7-7 14 4 0 3 0 0 16
Bob Francis 18 1-2 0-0 3-3 2-2 4 1 1 1 0 0 5
TEAM 6-6 12 0
TOTALS 37-77 0-0 15-20 19-32 51 8 4 13 0 0 89
PERCENTAGES .481 .000 .750 Deadball: 0
Click on name for player's page.
Percentages 1st Half 2nd Half Overall
Field Goal Percentage 23-50 (.460) 14-27 (.519) 37-77 (.481)
3-Point FG Percentage 0-0 (.000) 0-0 (.000) 0-0 (.000)
Free Throw Percentage 6-7 (.857) 9-13 (.692) 15-20 (.750)





Penn State
Field Goals 3-Point FGs Free Throws Rebounds
Player GS Min FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OR-DR TR PF Ast TO Blk Stl Pts
Guyton * 14 1-4 0-0 0-0 1-0 1 1 0 1 0 0 2
McGosera * 35 7-18 0-0 0-0 3-2 5 1 0 0 0 0 14
Mickey * 31 2-6 0-0 2-2 0-5 5 2 0 2 0 0 6
Persson * 38 13-27 0-0 1-1 1-3 4 3 2 2 0 0 27
Stansfield * 26 8-16 0-0 3-3 1-1 2 3 0 2 0 0 19
Hayes 16 4-9 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 2 0 0 0 0 8
Leidy 5 0-1 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Lindea 5 0-2 0-0 0-0 0-2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
Shaffer 2 0-0 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0
Young 28 4-6 0-0 0-0 2-4 6 3 0 0 0 0 8
TEAM 5-4 9 0
TOTALS 39-89 0-0 6-6 13-21 34 16 2 7 0 0 84
PERCENTAGES .438 .000 1.000 Deadball: 0


Stu McKaig and Steve Vandenberg were the other starters. Only one sub. That was a fun game. The starters were all sitting corner in the corner behind the visitors bench. At the end of the game the Penn State players were in tears - lamenting being beaten by our "scrubs."

[heyman25]

Tommy Amaker was a great player for Duke, but Bob Verga is a legend! I saw a recent photo of him. He had a goatee and looks as cool as ever. In Sports Illustrated his photo showed him playing pool.I thinks he is a top ranked tennis player in Seniors competition. He used to shoot his jump shot with his arms going way back behind his shoulders before the release. If the 3 pt shot was in effect he would have been averaging about 39 or 40 per game.

[blueprofessor]

There is no doubt in my mind that a healthy Duke ,with the great space-maker and rebounder Mike Lewis, would have handled Texas Western in 1966. I sat 2 rows from the baseline under the basket at Cole and enjoyed some of the comments,especially by Big Daddy David Lattin. Texas Western beat Kentucky 72 to 65 ,but the game was much closer.Duke was more physical and had great players. Larry Conley ,Kentucky's point forward, was also sick. BTW, the only Duke player selected to the Final Four All-Decade team for the '60s was Jeff Mullins. Blue Professor

[throatybeard]

Yeah, does Kentucky get labeled "the face of racism in sport" if they beat Texas Western? So say Duke plays in that game and wins...

[Bob Green]

I cast my vote for Bob Verga who was first in a long line of players I have idolized. I am also a big Tommy Amaker fan and, as I've stated in other polls, the 86 team was special, but in the end the decision to vote for Verga was easy.

[dkbaseball]

The thing I'll remember about Verga is his personality. Think "Otter" from Animal House. Every time I see the scene where the frat boys take their dates to the Dexter Lake Club, I think of Verga, who was a regular at the Stallion Club -- a black nightclub way out Cornwallis Road. Only with Verga, it wasn't a one-time thing -- he was a regular.

I decided I wanted to go to Duke after reading the S.I. college hoops preview in 1965. There was a feature on Verga showing him strolling around this beautiful campus with a beautiful blonde girlfriend from home. I said, yep, that's for me.

Also, I'll agree with blueprofessor and others that a healthy Duke team would have beaten Texas Western in '66, mainly because Mike Lewis could have matched up with Daddy D Latin. That Kentucky team was known as "Rupp's runts," and had nobody at all to handle Latin. Pat Riley was their best inside player at six-three. And I think Vacendak could have protected the ball from Bobby Joe Hill better than the Ky guards did.

[blueprofessor]

Verga was great in 1966(he and Marin were both consensus 2nd team All-America) and a consensus 1st team AA in 1967.Vacendak was 2nd team All-ACC and POY. Lewis was 2nd team All-ACC in 1967,1st in 1968 when he was also All-America. The 5th member was Bob Riedy who was drafted by Houston and played a year. Kentucky was loaded in 1966 as well: Pat Riley 1st team USBWAA All-America; Louie Dampier AP 1st team AA; Thad Jaracz AP 3rd team AA; Conley 1st team All-SEC; and Tommy Kron 3rd team All-SEC. Kentucky could not match Tex Western's size inside as Kron and Jaracz were only 6-5. Lewis was the best inside player in the Final Four and would have done well where Kentucky failed.Verga and Marin were dominating players and Vacendak was a fine floor leader. Without the flu that struck Verga and Conley, The Miners would not have gotten to the championship game. If they had ,though, Duke had the shooting,defense, and rebounding that would have won Duke's first nat'l championship in basketball.

[dkbaseball]

Without the flu that struck Verga and Conley, The Miners would not have gotten to the championship game. .

You mean Ky wouldn't have gotten to the final? Didn't the Miners play Utah in the semifinals?

[Bob Green]

Without the flu that struck Verga and Conley, The Miners would not have gotten to the championship game. If they had ,though, Duke had the shooting,defense, and rebounding that would have won Duke's first nat'l championship in basketball.

Not sure how Texas Western advancing to the championship game was affected by Duke players having the flu. Duke lost to Kentucky in the semi-finals 83-79, while Texas Western advanced by defeating Utah.

A healthy Duke should have beaten Kentucky and faced Texas Western in the championship game. Of course the emphasis is on the words - should have...

[blueprofessor]

Throaty---Duke had Bubas, not Rupp, as coach. So, Duke would not have been stamped with that sobriquet. There was no smoking gun in the gentlemanly Vic Bubas. Rupp,though, was a "perfect fit" ( Lax language redux) for a modern movie imprinting racism on a program. The fact that the Kentucky players may have been innocent of such prejudice is immaterial, as recent events in Durham have instructed.Also,dkbaseball, Riley was a guard-wing very much involved in a beautiful weaving offense that year. Jaracz was the center and a good one(3rd team AP All-A as a soph.) against smaller inside players. On the other hand, Lewis was a beast against the bigs, as he proved in college AND pro ball.

[blueprofessor]

The Miners did beat Jerry Chambers' Utah team to advance to the finals. Chambers,BTW, was the most outstanding player in the Final Four that year, as he averaged 35 ppg, down from Dollar Bill's 43.5 the prior year.Duke did beat Utah 79 to 77 in the consolation game. Obviously ,my post should have accurately noted that Tex Western would not have won the championship game, had the flu bug not struck Duke and Kentucky.

[throatybeard]

Throaty---Duke had Bubas, not Rupp, as coach. So, Duke would not have been stamped with that sobriquet.

No duh. But we'd still have had 5 white starters. The media doesn't necessarily consider "how cool a guy is Bubas compared to Rupp?"

[Bostondevil]

For the sake of our historical reputation, I am glad we were not the lilly white team that lost to the first all-black team in the Final Four. I am happy to let Adolph Rupp and Kentucky be the historical faces of racism in college basketball.

--Jason "it is not like Eddie Cameron was a saint" Evans

Yes, but Duke would have beaten the Miners and we wouldn't even have the story. Duke was a much tougher match up for that team. The Miners got lucky when Verga got the flu (I guess at the time Kentucky thought so too).

[JasonEvans]

This poll is closed. Tommy move on to face JJ in a matchup of great scorer versus great defender.

--Jason

[blueprofessor]

No duh. But we'd still have had 5 white starters. The media doesn't necessarily consider "how cool a guy is Bubas compared to Rupp?"

It had nothing to do with how "cool" anyone was. Bubas did not have a reputation as a prejudiced person.Apparently Rupp did. Note ,also, the movie was made over 40 years later. In the mid-60s, the sports media was not obsessed with race.