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View Full Version : Run Away, Run Away!!! Mass exodus at Pitt



CameronBornAndBred
03-16-2018, 12:16 PM
At least playing time should be easy to come by, so the next coach can use that as a recruiting tool.

In addition to talented freshman Parker Stewart, seven other Pittsburgh players have asked for -- and are expected to receive -- their release on Friday to explore transfer options, multiple sources close to the basketball program told ESPN.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22792196/eight-pittsburgh-panthers-basketball-players-asking-release-wake-coaching-change

devildeac
03-16-2018, 12:26 PM
At least playing time should be easy to come by, so the next coach can use that as a recruiting tool.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22792196/eight-pittsburgh-panthers-basketball-players-asking-release-wake-coaching-change

When danger reared its ugly head,

Sir Robin turned his tail and fled,

Brave, brave Sir Robin.

Or something like that.

HereBeforeCoachK
03-16-2018, 12:55 PM
This is a good object lesson that Coach K has mentioned.....the chaos that will ensue if transfer rules are changed too quickly and too much. As K said, it's a complicated issue.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-16-2018, 12:59 PM
This is a good object lesson that Coach K has mentioned....the chaos that will ensue if transfer rules are changed too quickly and too much. As K said, it's a complicated issue.

I have zero problems with kids being able to leave if the coach they signed to play for leaves, is fired, quits - any of the above.

I have zero problems with graduate students being able to play right away at a new school right away.

YmoBeThere
03-16-2018, 01:05 PM
There was a similar exodus among the Jamie Dixon recruited folks when Stallings got hired. Except now they are just fleeing the institution.

ChillinDuke
03-16-2018, 01:09 PM
I have zero problems with kids being able to leave if the coach they signed to play for leaves, is fired, quits - any of the above.

I have zero problems with graduate students being able to play right away at a new school right away.

Agreed on #1.

#2 is trickier. At some point, the grad transfer option just becomes a total fallacy in order for a kid to get an extra year of college ball. Which isn't really the point, IMO. A 3-year graduate, who transfers for a 4th year? OK, in my book. A 4-year graduate, 4-year player, who is hanging on and making somewhat of a mockery of the academic system in order to keep playing college basketball? Not so clear on that one.

- Chillin

DukieInKansas
03-16-2018, 01:09 PM
How many are heading to unc? :D

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-16-2018, 01:11 PM
Agreed on #1.

#2 is trickier. At some point, the grad transfer option just becomes a total fallacy in order for a kid to get an extra year of college ball. Which isn't really the point, IMO. A 3-year graduate, who transfers for a 4th year? OK, in my book. A 4-year graduate, 4-year player, who is hanging on and making somewhat of a mockery of the academic system in order to keep playing college basketball? Not so clear on that one.

- Chillin

*shrugs* is anyone really "making a mockery of the academic system" if they finished undergrad and enrolled in a masters program? Is this a big problem in the NCAA - those danged kids gaming the system by finishing school and staying around college sports for another year?

HereBeforeCoachK
03-16-2018, 01:15 PM
I have zero problems with kids being able to leave if the coach they signed to play for leaves, is fired, quits - any of the above.

I have zero problems with graduate students being able to play right away at a new school right away.

Well you and Coach K are not going to see eye to eye on this. I am agnostic on what I"d like to see, but I will say that I think 17 years old is old enough to know that coaches come and go, but the school is permanent. Period.

I would also say that chaos injected into this system could possibly hurt the product to the extent that none of the players have the game they have today. Unintended consequences.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-16-2018, 01:19 PM
Well you and Coach K are not going to see eye to eye on this. I am agnostic on what I"d like to see, but I will say that I think 17 years old is old enough to know that coaches come and go, but the school is permanent. Period.

I would also say that chaos injected into this system could possibly hurt the product to the extent that none of the players have the game they have today. Unintended consequences.

I'm not sure what the second portion of your post means, but you are correct on the first part. I'll even provide the link to his comments (http://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/index.ssf/2016/03/mike_krzyzewski_says_graduate-.html) two years ago where he calls out grad transfers.

ChillinDuke
03-16-2018, 01:28 PM
*shrugs* is anyone really "making a mockery of the academic system" if they finished undergrad and enrolled in a masters program? Is this a big problem in the NCAA - those danged kids gaming the system by finishing school and staying around college sports for another year?

Maybe. But it's not as clear as your first point.

- Chillin

MChambers
03-16-2018, 01:31 PM
How many are heading to unc? :D

Based on Pitt’s record, I hope all of them are!

Truth&Justise
03-16-2018, 01:33 PM
This is obviously terrible for Pitt (and how can things can worse than 0-19?), but it doesn't mean all eight of those guys are definitely leaving. It gives them flexibility to make a decision once Pitt hires a new coach.

CameronBornAndBred
03-16-2018, 01:38 PM
How many are heading to unc? :D


Based on Pitt’s record, I hope all of them are!

Sadly, they won't be able to play for Roy or any other ACC coach. Pitt institutes a no in-conference transfer clause.

Bluedog
03-16-2018, 01:42 PM
Sadly, they won't be able to play for Roy or any other ACC coach. Pitt institutes a no in-conference transfer clause.

Except that just happened this past year with Cam Johnson going to UNC from Pitt. :mad: (Pitt said they were going to block it, but then eventually acquiesced to Johnson's and UNC's demands. I realize a grad transfer is technically different than undergrad though.)

flyingdutchdevil
03-16-2018, 01:49 PM
...in 2 years when they hire Sean Miller next week and $100,000 recruits start showing up.

You know it'll happen

MarkD83
03-16-2018, 02:01 PM
I'm not sure what the second portion of your post means, but you are correct on the first part. I'll even provide the link to his comments (http://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/index.ssf/2016/03/mike_krzyzewski_says_graduate-.html) two years ago where he calls out grad transfers.

There are times we are allowed to disagree with Coach K. If a player has earned a degree he has completed what you would ask of any student. If the student-athlete (and I can use student since they have a degree) wants to pursue an advanced degree at another school and still has eligibility they should have that right to play. For emphasis they did get a degree and by all rights have no ties to the academic side of their undergrad university. Where I would perhaps draw the line is that the student-athlete would have to apply to a legitimate graduate school and be accepted into that school. They could not just move to another school and take a few extra upper level classes just to be enrolled.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-16-2018, 02:05 PM
There are times we are allowed to disagree with Coach K. If a player has earned a degree he has completed what you would ask of any student. If the student-athlete (and I can use student since they have a degree) wants to pursue an advanced degree at another school and still has eligibility they should have that right to play. For emphasis they did get a degree and by all rights have no ties to the academic side of their undergrad university. Where I would perhaps draw the line is that the student-athlete would have to apply to a legitimate graduate school and be accepted into that school. They could not just move to another school and take a few extra upper level classes just to be enrolled.

Well, to be fair, those times are extremely few and far between...

PackMan97
03-16-2018, 02:06 PM
Where I would perhaps draw the line is that the student-athlete would have to apply to a legitimate graduate school and be accepted into that school. They could not just move to another school and take a few extra upper level classes just to be enrolled.

Other area schools might disagree and feel that exceptions should be made for exceptional athletes.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/unc-scandal/article11845640.html


Michael Waddell had a low grade point average, no entrance exam score and was months past the deadline when an athletic official sought to have the football player admitted to UNC’s graduate school in fall 2003.

John Blanchard, then a senior associate athletic director, made the request after classes began, on Sept. 5, just as Waddell was about to be declared ineligible to play against Syracuse the following day, according to records obtained by The News & Observer.

The plea to admit Waddell went up to UNC’s provost, Robert Shelton. Email correspondence indicates Shelton saw no policy that would allow Waddell to enroll, but instead of telling him no, Shelton left it up to Linda Dykstra, the graduate school dean.


Thomas told her superiors that Waddell should not be admitted and that officials at the Exercise and Sports Science Department knew he was not there to legitimately pursue a course of study.

“They know he has not applied and would not meet the minimum requirements for admission, yet the EXSS is willing to accept him as a non-degree seeking, one semester only, graduate student so his football eligibility will continue, if the (graduate school) will allow it,” Thomas wrote.

BD80
03-16-2018, 02:07 PM
...in 2 years when they hire Sean Miller next week and $100,000 recruits start showing up.

You know it'll happen

Miller might need a work furlough to coach during the next 12-20 years. And his interstate travel severely limited.


How in the world could these kids be so loyal to Kevin Stallings that they'd request transfer?

flyingdutchdevil
03-16-2018, 02:08 PM
Miller might need a work furlough to coach during the next 12-20 years. And his interstate travel severely limited.


How in the world could these kids be so loyal to Kevin Stallings that they'd request transfer?

Were they? Or did they hate Stallings so much that they hated all of Pitt basketball and wanted to leave regardless?

kako
03-16-2018, 02:46 PM
How in the world could these kids be so loyal to Kevin Stallings that they'd request transfer?

If I played through the season that Pitt did, and then now they were changing coaches, I might just say to hell with it, too. Try my fortune somewhere else due to bad karma. I don't blame them.

My feeling about grad transfers is that as long as it's an option, it should be free market. They can suit up for another school as long as they have eligibility and meet entry requirement to the new school, and they should be allowed to play right away. They would need to maintain their full-time school standing with the school to play. That being said, if there was a rule that grad students could not play college hoops unless it was the same school that you got your degree, I'd be OK with that. Outlaw grad transfers outright. If you want to transfer, transfer while you are an undergrad. Again, you could play right away as long as there's eligibility, meeting entry requirements, maintain full-time standing, etc.

Hingeknocker
03-16-2018, 02:53 PM
Coach K is dead wrong on the transfer issue. Not that I'll ever have to confront him for daring to disagree with him, but he's falling into the same trap that everyone else who defends the current transfer rules falls into: defending (only) the rights of the coaches and schools without even a sniff of defending the rights of the player.

I'm happy that these players have sought out the ability to make their own decisions once the new coach is named, and I'm happier that Pitt learned their lesson from the Cam Johnson debacle and has already granted their releases.

As for Pitt, it can't really get worse for them, but this news means it might take even longer for it to get better.

HereBeforeCoachK
03-16-2018, 02:56 PM
Coach K is dead wrong on the transfer issue. Not that I'll ever have to confront him for daring to disagree with him, but he's falling into the same trap that everyone else who defends the current transfer rules falls into: defending (only) the rights of the coaches and schools without even a sniff of defending the rights of the player.

I don't think he's ignoring even a "sniff of" the rights of players at all. He is worried about mass chaos happening as a result, a mass chaos that would damage the game for 100% of the players. You may disagree with him, but it is absurd to say there is no player consideration on K's part.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-16-2018, 03:12 PM
I don't think he's ignoring even a "sniff of" the rights of players at all. He is worried about mass chaos happening as a result, a mass chaos that would damage the game for 100% of the players. You may disagree with him, but it is absurd to say there is no player consideration on K's part.

What is this "mass chaos?" All those four year seniors who aren't talented enough to play at the next level, but smart and dedicated enough to graduate on time or early, who want to keep getting a free education and playing basketball? Sounds like mostly motivated, smart young men who have earned another year of free education. They are actually using the system to its intended purpose.

As far as K's perspective, well, he is a coach, not a student athlete. Nothing against him, but his priorities are necessarily different.

Sorry, I see the grad school transfer as a necessarily good thing. If we suddenly have piles of dubious kids who are "gaming the system" to, um, get an extra year of free education and play for a different school, I guess I will examine again.

Are we trying to keep kids in school or out of school? I sometimes lose track of where our paternalism towards these players draws lines.

willowglen
03-16-2018, 07:44 PM
I am not sure I have seen this before. Pitt is losing seven players who are seeking transfers, and a 4 star recruit as well. The three players remaining played a collective total of just over 185 minutes this year. This is sad, because unlike Louisville, which I though a poor fit academically and culturally for the ACC, I think Pitt a good fit for the ACC. Pitt has had good teams since the 70’s, with Sam Clancy, a future NFL player, really holding his own with Gminski in a victory over Duke. And lots of good teams since then.

How did they end up here? Do they recruit junior college guys like crazy to fill a roster?

Pghdukie
03-16-2018, 08:23 PM
I believe I recently read that Pitt had a few players on the ACC All-Academic team.Give Stallings credit for that. Flip the coin and Pitt was not very good on the court. All told - what a mess the last AD made. Steve Peterson sent Pitt back to the Stone Age with this hire. Will Pitt be willing to pay the freight to hire a successful coach and give him the resources to be competitive?

CDu
03-16-2018, 08:47 PM
Except that just happened this past year with Cam Johnson going to UNC from Pitt. :mad: (Pitt said they were going to block it, but then eventually acquiesced to Johnson's and UNC's demands. I realize a grad transfer is technically different than undergrad though.)

The grad transfer is critical.

BD80
03-16-2018, 08:53 PM
I believe I recently read that Pitt had a few players on the ACC All-Academic team.Give Stallings credit for that. Flip the coin and Pitt was not very good on the court. ...

So, the antithesis of everything unc stands for?

jbay201
03-16-2018, 08:59 PM
So, the antithesis of everything unc stands for?

lol cheat players can't even read or write but still win finish with 4.0 GPA like mccants! can't believe the cheats get away with everything!