Calipari vs Coach K again

[campered]

https://thebiglead.com/2018/03/13/john-calipari-calls-out-coach-k-hypocrisy-when-it-comes-to-getting-zion-williamson/ This might be old news, but an interesting article nonetheless. Your thoughts?

[CDu]

He has a right to be miffed about folks calling him onto the carpet for going all-in on one-and-dones. But the article has it right that he basically is just pissed that Coach K is now beating him at his own recruiting game. If he was still landing the top recruits, I doubt he'd be whining right now.

But yes, there was some hypocrisy in criticizing Cal's recruiting approach when shortly thereafter Coach K has taken the same approach.

C'est la vie.

[halcyon]

The underlying GQ article reads like it was written by Cal's PR folks. Does GQ accept cash for articles now or something?

[Sir Stealth]

But yes, there was some hypocrisy in criticizing Cal's recruiting approach when shortly thereafter Coach K has taken the same approach.



I disagree with repeating this prevailing wisdom that Cal and K now take the "same approach." Yes, when it comes to being willing to recruit players who fully intend to go to the NBA after one year, and to totally overhaul teams every season, the approach can be described as the same. But in marketing his program, Cal has taken it a step further by advertising that getting his players to the NBA was the main goal of having the team at all, superseding goals for team competition in the NCAA season. K and Duke understand that they are selling preparation for the next level to elite players, but the approach of integrating players into the greater Duke community is different in a way that goes beyond marketing spin, and team goals have never been diminished relative to the pro prospects of individual players within any one season.

K, Duke, and Duke fans all could have probably been a little less sanctimonious about the idea of departing early for the NBA back when it was still rare for Duke players (even those who were elite prospects) to do so. But Cal's take on this rightfully deserved some criticism for going over the top in minimizing team performance compared to NBA draft position. K is competing with and beating Cal at one and dones because that's the path that the elite talent that Duke has always pursued now takes in the current college basketball environment. But Cal complaining that he is being treated differently, when his approach actually is different, is just whining.

[Billy Dat]

Here's a link to the full article
https://www.gq.com/story/john-calipari-kentucky-profile

The one aspect I have a problem with is this:

"In the holier-than-thou world of collegiate athletics, Calipari’s brazen attempt to game the system was, at the time, considered sacrilege. His detractors—like Duke’s Mike Krzyzewski, the most celebrated coach in college hoops, and Rick Pitino, Calipari’s cross-state nemesis at Louisville—suggested that Kentucky didn’t do things the right way. In their eyes, the Wildcats weren’t even a college basketball program anymore. Kentucky was an NBA factory."

I can't recall a time when K was an open Cal detractor. Maybe he trashed him behind closed doors, but I can't find a place where he openly trashed what Cal or Kentucky was doing. He usually either praises other programs, or says he doesn't want to comment on other teams. Maybe a lack of praise is considered detraction? He went on Cal's podcast...whatever.

[MCFinARL]

Although the link is a very recent post, the quotes from Calipari sound like ones that came out a couple of months ago. I can see why Cal would resent the fact that, from his perspective, it was terrible when he started doing it but now that Duke does it it's okay--and there is a little bit of truth to that, if only to the extent that, over time, people have started to accept the one-and-done phenomenon as part of the college game.

But his description of the way Duke sells its program to recruits is, I think, a complete (and possibly deliberate) misunderstanding of the Duke pitch. Duke is not promoting "socialism"--the idea that the school and the state will take care of players for life. Indeed, there are probably significant parts of the state where being a former Duke basketball player would be a real disadvantage. Instead, the pitch is that by working to develop the whole person for as long as players are there, and by connecting Duke players with the "brotherhood" of alums and the program's network in sports and other areas, Duke basketball offers players a lot of potential opportunities for their lives both in basketball and beyond.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Here's a link to the full article
https://www.gq.com/story/john-calipari-kentucky-profile

The one aspect I have a problem with is this:

"In the holier-than-thou world of collegiate athletics, Calipari’s brazen attempt to game the system was, at the time, considered sacrilege. His detractors—like Duke’s Mike Krzyzewski, the most celebrated coach in college hoops, and Rick Pitino, Calipari’s cross-state nemesis at Louisville—suggested that Kentucky didn’t do things the right way. In their eyes, the Wildcats weren’t even a college basketball program anymore. Kentucky was an NBA factory."

I can't recall a time when K was an open Cal detractor. Maybe he trashed him behind closed doors, but I can't find a place where he openly trashed what Cal or Kentucky was doing. He usually either praises other programs, or says he doesn't want to comment on other teams. Maybe a lack of praise is considered detraction? He went on Cal's podcast...whatever.

Yeah...I'm with you.

But Cal's underlying issue that the world initially crapped on his OAD philosophy is correct. Remember DBR in the late 2000s and early 2010s? Man...you would have thought that those who embraced the OAD philosophy ought to be shot dead!

I don't think Duke single-handedly made recruiting OADs okay; rather, I think father time did the trick. Also, Calipari's success at UK proved the OAD model could work. Duke is arguably the best case for embracing the OAD system, but other schools like KU, UCLA, LSU, WU, etc embraced it all well.

I give a lot of credit to Calipari for starting a trend and carrying out that trend despite a ton of backlash. Good for him. Where we kinda annoys me is he wants the world to realize that he's the OAD master and not Coach K. Dude - just continue recruiting OADs, win, and let the media/fans praise you. What you're saying to the media just sounds so petty.

[CDu]

Yeah...I'm with you.

But Cal's underlying issue that the world initially crapped on his OAD philosophy is correct. Remember DBR in the late 2000s and early 2010s? Man...you would have thought that those who embraced the OAD philosophy ought to be shot dead!

I don't think Duke single-handedly made recruiting OADs okay; rather, I think father time did the trick. Also, Calipari's success at UK proved the OAD model could work. Duke is arguably the best case for embracing the OAD system, but other schools like KU, UCLA, LSU, WU, etc embraced it all well.

I give a lot of credit to Calipari for starting a trend and carrying out that trend despite a ton of backlash. Good for him. Where we kinda annoys me is he wants the world to realize that he's the OAD master and not Coach K. Dude - just continue recruiting OADs, win, and let the media/fans praise you. What you're saying to the media just sounds so petty.

Yeah, I agree with this. Calipari took a lot of abuse early on, mainly because folks weren't comfortable with the idea. And there are still folks who aren't totally comfortable with the idea, but the general feeling is much more accepting of it. So I can certainly understand his irritation with folks who slammed him for years but are now okay with it.

But the stuff with Duke is mainly just sour grapes that Duke has surpassed him in landing those kids. If the roles were swapped and he was landing the top guys while Coach K was landing the next tier of guys, he'd probably not have a problem with Coach K and Duke.

[FerryFor50]

Reminds me of the time Cal whined about the unfair recruiting advantage K had with the US Olympic team. Bothered him so much, he went ahead and coached the Dominican olympic team, who just happened to have Karl Anthony Towns.

[uh_no]

Yeah, I agree with this. Calipari took a lot of abuse early on, mainly because folks weren't comfortable with the idea. And there are still folks who aren't totally comfortable with the idea, but the general feeling is much more accepting of it. So I can certainly understand his irritation with folks who slammed him for years but are now okay with it.

But the stuff with Duke is mainly just sour grapes that Duke has surpassed him in landing those kids. If the roles were swapped and he was landing the top guys while Coach K was landing the next tier of guys, he'd probably not have a problem with Coach K and Duke.

part of it is that calipari is/was a sleaze REGARDLESS of what kind of player he recruited....and the fact that he was recruiting these guys made it doubly so. Then to top it off, getting final fours vacated at two schools and putting them both on probation before bolting. I don't blame him for leaving when bigger opportunities came around....I do blame him for leaving a mess behind for the next guy to clean up.

[Owen Meany]

I have never heard Coach K comment on Calipari and one and dones at Kentucky. Its possible, but more likely this is a figment of Kentucky fans' imaginations that this writer has chosen to glom onto in order to write this piece. Calipari is so immersed in his own Calipariness that he isn't capable of seeing how ridiculous some of his statements are. Ever interview is a stage performance by him and he is intent to show just how clever he is - but, to me at least, he comes off disingenuous and smarmy.


This Sunday, he claimed his phone was blowing up with friends saying they didn't think the NCAA could find a new way to screw Kentucky again until they saw the brackets. A few weeks ago, Ky was in danger of making the tournament, but Calipari believes that the committee and NCAA went out of their way to make an unfavorable draw for his 4 seed team.


Regarding Calipari's comments after the Williamson decision - I think, in his attempt to attack Duke and to be clever, he did himself no favors with recruits' parents. First, he acted like the recruits and their families (including Williamson and any recent recruits who chose Duke) were too dumb to see through what, according to him, was a ridiculous recruiting pitch. Second, he basically revealed that he thinks it is idiotic to think that a school can offer a player anything other than a few moths of basketball - to suggest any long-term development or a path to future success is unfathomable and laughable to him. As a parent, I would find that very revealing. Third, it came off as insecure and childish.


Compare Duke's absurd notion that they can help prepare you for life outside of basketball with Calipari's (always clever) comments earlier this year about Jared Vanderbilt. "The problem with being injured when you’re on my teams, I really spend no time with you," Calipari said. "Sometimes I forget names. Like I forget who (Vanderbilt) is. Because I’ve gotta focus on the guys I’m coaching right now. They’ve gotta get healthy and be ready to come back and be ready to go. Jarred’s the same.” Parents have got to be eating this up, No?


Calipari seemed to basically commissioned Woj's hit piece on Coach K, unaware that everyone would see his fingerprints on it. Although I guess he did parlay his whining to a coaching gig for the US where he coached Cam Reddish against RJ Barrett. How did that work out for him? Comically, there have been rumors (even before they selected a school) that the experience turned both players off to Ky and Calipari.


Finally, I don't know if anyone saw Cal's recorded birthday message he sent (via a reporter, not direct) to Anthony Davis. It was supposed to be Cal at his wittiest, but it came off more than a little weird. He called him the one eye-browed wonder, asked if he was 20 or maybe 30 now, and some other nonsense that left Davis with a bemused and very slight smile/smirk on his face as he walked off without comment. Of course, the message wasn't really intended for Davis at all, but for the benefit of the world at large so we could all bask in Cal's humor and glory.


So, I think the more Calipari speaks the better off his opponents are. Because what he says, says a lot about himself. And its not what he intended.

[brevity]

https://thebiglead.com/2018/03/13/john-calipari-calls-out-coach-k-hypocrisy-when-it-comes-to-getting-zion-williamson/ This might be old news, but an interesting article nonetheless. Your thoughts?

I agree. This is old news. (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?41221-Calipari-wah-wah-wah)

I don't have the greatest memory in the world, but I'm going to remember John Calipari ranting about swampland and socialism. That DBR thread is closed, but I guess we can recycle the same outrage all over again.