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subzero02
03-08-2018, 11:38 PM
The rubber match awaits. I am optimistic about our chances. We our rounding into form quite nicely and unc looked vulnerable. i am a little worried about Cameron Johnson; he is bonafide.

OldPhiKap
03-08-2018, 11:41 PM
9F again.

HereBeforeCoachK
03-08-2018, 11:45 PM
i am a little worried about Cameron Johnson; he is bonafide.

It's like they had another Justin Jackson come right into the lineup....

TNTDevil
03-08-2018, 11:46 PM
9F again.One of you smart guys help an old man out! Wouldn't that be 9F to the 3rd?

UNC got to work against the Syracuse zone last night and looked great. Fortunately, we played ND, who tried the exact same offense that UNC ran against the ‘Cuse 2-3. We’ve seen it and stopped it. Twice.

We’re shooting well. Defending better and, we have this guy named Bagley.

Unless Berry gets uncorked against us, we got this.

ndkjr70
03-08-2018, 11:47 PM
This is similar to last year. Weaker UNC team with less rest against a stronger Duke team. I’m up for a win, but I’m also up for the inverse (UNC getting the ACC Champ and Duke Winning #6)

84Duke
03-09-2018, 12:11 AM
One of you smart guys help an old man out! Wouldn't that be 9F to the 3rd?

UNC got to work against the Syracuse zone last night and looked great. Fortunately, we played ND, who tried the exact same offense that UNC ran against the ‘Cuse 2-3. We’ve seen it and stopped it. Twice.

We’re shooting well. Defending better and, we have this guy named Bagley.

Unless Berry gets uncorked against us, we got this.

729F?

TNTDevil
03-09-2018, 12:17 AM
729F?LOL, IRL.

Well-played.

uh_no
03-09-2018, 01:03 AM
This is similar to last year. Weaker UNC team with less rest against a stronger Duke team. I’m up for a win, but I’m also up for the inverse (UNC getting the ACC Champ and Duke Winning #6)

uhhhh....i'm not sure I agree that was similar to last year. whether deserved or not, UNC was not overall weaker than duke.

juise
03-09-2018, 01:09 AM
uhhhh...i'm not sure I agree that was similar to last year. whether deserved or not, UNC was not overall weaker than duke.

I think the comparison was this year’s “weaker”/less rested UNC team to last year’s weaker/less rested Duke team. I had a similar thought.

Bob Green
03-09-2018, 04:55 AM
Rubber match! I'm slightly worried about Carter but with Bolden and DeLaurier stepping up we will be okay.

heyman25
03-09-2018, 05:16 AM
Duval could be the key. He has had a light bulb come on,though his reckless turnovers could lead to easy transition baskets for UNC. Trent Jr. has to step up to keep UNC defense schemes off balance. Bolden was stellar in last night's game. DeLaurier kept from fouling for a change. O'Connell gave us a boost. White we can count on for aggressive smart plays. I like our chances. UNC will want revenge bad. Duke needs to capitalize on any turnovers UNC makes. Bagley is phenomenal, but if he has an off game will somebody else pick up the slack.

HereBeforeCoachK
03-09-2018, 06:50 AM
Duval could be the key..

IS the key. The key that unlocks Grayson and Marvin.

cbarry
03-09-2018, 06:54 AM
Gonna be a tough game without Carter. The Duke foot injury curse strikes again. Every. Single. Year. Geez.

The description (lack of specifics) of this injury has me very, very worried we may have seen Wendell’s last game at Duke. REALLY hoping that’s not the case, because we need him healthy for a few tourney run. We may be a first weekend team anyway, but our chances to win are much better with Wendell in the lineup. May your foot heal quickly, big guy!

foot vigil?

dukelifer
03-09-2018, 07:07 AM
This is similar to last year. Weaker UNC team with less rest against a stronger Duke team. I’m up for a win, but I’m also up for the inverse (UNC getting the ACC Champ and Duke Winning #6)

UNC is different - not necessarily weaker. There are not many teams out there that can beat them. Johnson is an excellent shooter and their bench is solid- but raw. UNC is fully capable of winning it all. UNC had a physical game so they may be more tired than Duke but they also have more experience with the pressure of a tourney. Will be an interesting game.

David Bunkley
03-09-2018, 07:07 AM
...to wish the Heels a most unpleasant trip to Hell.

#GODUKE

Saratoga2
03-09-2018, 07:15 AM
Duval could be the key. He has had a light bulb come on,though his reckless turnovers could lead to easy transition baskets for UNC. Trent Jr. has to step up to keep UNC defense schemes off balance. Bolden was stellar in last night's game. DeLaurier kept from fouling for a change. O'Connell gave us a boost. White we can count on for aggressive smart plays. I like our chances. UNC will want revenge bad. Duke needs to capitalize on any turnovers UNC makes. Bagley is phenomenal, but if he has an off game will somebody else pick up the slack.

Duval had an in between game last night. He needs to avoid the TO's and he doesn't need to make the wow plays. He has tons of talent and can do it and his play is a key to our success.

drummerdevil
03-09-2018, 07:19 AM
We need Marvin and Grayson to both have good games in some way... duval is the way. To every one of the haters,
when he’s off he’s off but when he’s on we win. Outside of him, others need to step it up... if Javin can force unc to at least pretend to guard him it will be a lot better. Also if bolden can keep hitting that 18ish footer he hit yesterday who knows what that will open up? No matter what, though, LGD GTGCGTH 9F 9F 9F

WVDUKEFAN
03-09-2018, 07:42 AM
All of their starters played 30 plus minutes. Cool Hand Luke was 1-15. As good as we need everyone else to play, I think Trevon takes the slack up when he's playing well. We are just so much more versatile. We played a good defensive team that was very physical. If the refs would have taken Bonzi's tent and camp fire out of the lane, we would have held them to less points. We adjusted in the second half. He still scored, but it wasn't as easy. I think the same thing has to happen tonight. Clamp down on the wings, force Luke to make shots, and defend him aggressively. Grayson appears to be out of his shooting slump; I thought Gary was as well. We are playing very good basketball right now. AND WE'RE GOING TO GET BETTER.

gocanes0506
03-09-2018, 07:50 AM
Rest Carter. Maybe put him in at crunch time. Give Bolden 20+ minutes. Lets launch him and be that much deeper in the tournament. Let Carter heal.

Dr. Rosenrosen
03-09-2018, 07:50 AM
I move that we replace “cheating losers” in the thread title with “cheating pond scum” as was the case last week in the MOTM thread. Three reasons:

1. It has a nicer ring to it
2. I like consistnency and am a little superstitious, let’s stick with what we know works
3. Current title is demeaning to losers everywhere

That is all.

slower
03-09-2018, 08:14 AM
If Carter's out, all bets are off. Bolden is not Carter. As always, anything can happen. Facing the Toilet-Water Blues always makes me nervous.

Billy Dat
03-09-2018, 08:23 AM
All of their starters played 30 plus minutes. Cool Hand Luke was 1-15. Clamp down on the wings, force Luke to make shots, and defend him aggressively. Grayson appears to be out of his shooting slump; I thought Gary was as well. We are playing very good basketball right now. AND WE'RE GOING TO GET BETTER.

Yes, we need to defend them the say way we did in the second half last week...eliminate 3 point opportunities and let Maye try and play the Bonzi role 10 feet and in. On offense, punish their lack of size with Starvin Marvin who is so hungry he gonna EAT EAT EAT!!!!!

9F!!!!!!!!!!!

Dr. Rosenrosen
03-09-2018, 08:23 AM
If Carter's out, all bets are off. Bolden is not Carter. As always, anything can happen. Facing the Toilet-Water Blues always makes me nervous.
Is the Toilet-Water Blues something you get after eating at a questionable hot dog stand?

dukelifer
03-09-2018, 08:29 AM
If Carter's out, all bets are off. Bolden is not Carter. As always, anything can happen. Facing the Toilet-Water Blues always makes me nervous.

Yes. This will be an even tougher game without Carter. UNC is among the top 10 teams in the country- despite a couple of head scratching losses. They can win the whole thing again as they have all the pieces and experience. If they get hot- watch out. Duke can beat them but it is never easy. Duke has Bagley and Allen who are excellent but after that- it is a really an adventure as to who will play well. I am worried about Pinson and Johnson most. Both pose different kinds of problems and both are playing well. Duval and Trent need their A games tonight.

slower
03-09-2018, 08:32 AM
Is the Toilet-Water Blues something you get after eating at a questionable hot dog stand?
Or just driving through Toilet-Water Blueville.

DukeWarhead
03-09-2018, 08:48 AM
Saw some article this am stating that if UnC were to beat Duke and then UVA and Kansas loses, they would get last #1 seed. Bleh. No thanks. We’ll just beat them now.

left_hook_lacey
03-09-2018, 08:50 AM
Haven't seen a line for the UNC game yet. Vegas has Virginia as a 7 point favorite over Clempson.

Anyone wanna guess what the Duke UNC line will be?

I think we were 2 or 3 point favorites at Chapel Hell, and 7 or 8 point favorites in Cameron.

I'm thinking we will be 5 or 6 point favorites.

slower
03-09-2018, 08:53 AM
Haven't seen a line for the UNC game yet. Vegas has Virginia as a 7 point favorite over Clempson.

Anyone wanna guess what the Duke UNC line will be?

I think we were 2 or 3 point favorites at Chapel Hell, and 7 or 8 point favorites in Cameron.

I'm thinking we will be 5 or 6 point favorites.

So, by "we", you're referring to Duke? Sometimes, it's hard to tell with you.:p

Sorry if I'm confusing you with another poster.

PackMan97
03-09-2018, 08:57 AM
Good luck tonight. The entire fate of the civilized world rests on this game! Don't screw it up!

left_hook_lacey
03-09-2018, 08:59 AM
So, by "we", you're referring to Duke? Sometimes, it's hard to tell with you.:p

Sorry if I'm confusing you with another poster.

I think you must be.

ns7
03-09-2018, 09:05 AM
Haven't seen a line for the UNC game yet. Vegas has Virginia as a 7 point favorite over Clempson.

Anyone wanna guess what the Duke UNC line will be?

I think we were 2 or 3 point favorites at Chapel Hell, and 7 or 8 point favorites in Cameron.

I'm thinking we will be 5 or 6 point favorites.

UNC was favored by 1.5 in Chapel Hill. Duke was a 7.5 favorite in Cameron. That implies Duke -3. I think it will be more like -5 based on recent performance.

slower
03-09-2018, 09:07 AM
I think you must be.

My apologies, then. There are a few posters around here who seem to have an indecent amount of Tarheel love. Sorry if I misidentified you as one of them.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-09-2018, 09:16 AM
My apologies, then. There are a few posters around here who seem to have an indecent amount of Tarheel love. Sorry if I misidentified you as one of them.

The only things I have ever said that could possibly be construed as "not negative" about UNC has been a respect for Berry and Paige over the years. They both seem like legitimately good dudes.

I guess you could construe my statement a few days ago on the board that I would love to see UNC go 36-4, with four increasingly epic losses to Duke by margins over 30 points as some kindness to them, but it's really just because the losses to Duke would hurt that much more.

I know some people here like the idea of removing UNC like a cancer from the rivalry/conference/planet, but I enjoy having a foil, especially an evil foil, even moreso a foil that we get to beat up on a few times a year.

*shrugs*

Let's beat the tar out of those Heels tonight! Send them home licking their wounds, hoping for a three seed, and advancing us to a date with destiny for a #1 seed!

CDu
03-09-2018, 09:30 AM
With all due respect to Ken Pomeroy (I think it was him), I don't think our defensive 3pt shooting % is a fluke. In this zone, we are forcing teams farther and farther away from the 3pt line in order to get clean looks. Our guards and forwards are doing an amazing job of covering anything remotely close to the line. Go back and watch how few looks Notre Dame got at the 3pt line. It was impressive. They were consistently being forced to settle for 25ft 3pt shots. And, correspondingly, they missed a bunch of 3s.

We need to continue to do that against UNC. And if we can limit the offensive rebounds, we should do okay. I've seen lots of talk about how our defense looked in the second half in Cameron, but the reality is that we played good defense in BOTH halves (better in the second half, yes, but still good in the first half). It was our offense that struggled in the first half.

If we continue to play offense like we did in the second half against UNC and for the game against Notre Dame, we will be VERY tough to beat. Let's hope our guys are up to the challenge!

gocanes0506
03-09-2018, 09:34 AM
Do we come out early with the 3/4 court press? Or do we anticipate them going over it extensively and only use it randomly to throw them off?
Do we try to speed the game up?
Which Duval shows up?
Does Carolina miss as many shots? They move the ball very easy through the zone and get plenty of open jumpers.
Who gets the other big men in foul trouble first?
Can we make free throws?

The holes should be okay. They have played 2 easy games and played a bunch of players. They have also played two games and their starters have averaged 32 minutes in both games.
Im for 3/4 court pressing them most of the game. It keeps them from passing the ball around the zone for 25-27 seconds. 3/4 court gives them about 18-22 seconds once their O is set. Those extra 5-7 seconds is an extra pass or two.
Work inside-out. Get their bigs in foul trouble. At the same time it prevents them from getting into transition from long rebounds. They really feed off getting fast break points. I have noticed the Holes' demeanor and execution go way down when they arent getting into transition every few possessions.
Duval/Allen attack the middle of the D and dish to the big men down low.
Make free throws.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-09-2018, 09:42 AM
Do we come out early with the 3/4 court press? Or do we anticipate them going over it extensively and only use it randomly to throw them off?
Do we try to speed the game up?
Which Duval shows up?
Does Carolina miss as many shots? They move the ball very easy through the zone and get plenty of open jumpers.
Who gets the other big men in foul trouble first?
Can we make free throws?

The holes should be okay. They have played 2 easy games and played a bunch of players. They have also played two games and their starters have averaged 32 minutes in both games.
Im for 3/4 court pressing them most of the game. It keeps them from passing the ball around the zone for 25-27 seconds. 3/4 court gives them about 18-22 seconds once their O is set. Those extra 5-7 seconds is an extra pass or two.
Work inside-out. Get their bigs in foul trouble. At the same time it prevents them from getting into transition from long rebounds. They really feed off getting fast break points. I have noticed the Holes' demeanor and execution go way down when they arent getting into transition every few possessions.
Duval/Allen attack the middle of the D and dish to the big men down low.
Make free throws.

Much like the last game...

- Get rebounds. This can't be overstated. This is how the launch their offense and extend possessions. They crash the glass with five guys. We can't get caught watching.
- Get back on defense QUICKLY, even on made shots. If they burn us on fast-breaks, those are give away points.
- Watch out for corner threes. That's a frequent weakness of the zone. Now that teams have seen our defense for a few weeks, they will be looking for that open shot.
- Don't make unforced turnovers. Those are killers and we seem to get them in bunches. If Duval can stay steady and feed Allen/Bags, that bodes very well.
- Please oh please hit free throws.

PackMan97
03-09-2018, 09:47 AM
UNC was favored by 1.5 in Chapel Hill. Duke was a 7.5 favorite in Cameron. That implies Duke -3. I think it will be more like -5 based on recent performance.

vs The Cuse
36 Berry II
34 Williams
34 Johnson
33 Maye
30 Pinson
bench minutes
8 Brooks
7 Manley

vs The U
35 Pinson
34 Williams
32 Berry II
31 Johnson
30 Maye
bench minutes
9 Brooks
6 Manley


Duke vs ND
17 Carter Jr
38 Bagley III
39 Allen
34 Duval
35 Trent Jr
bench:
6 DeLaurier
19 Bolden
10 O'Connel

I don't know if fatigue will be an issue for the heels, they are right about their average of low 30's for the starters in both games. I think whomever gets to play UVa will definitely have some issues.

jv001
03-09-2018, 09:48 AM
1) Keep our turnovers down anywhere 5-10 and don't let those be run out turnovers.
2) Block out. The cheats are a good offensive rebounding team. Make the refs call over the back fouls.
3) Do a good job of locating their three point shooters.
4) Don't let Berry penetrate our zone.

GoDuke!

UrinalCake
03-09-2018, 09:50 AM
One of the plays that they ran very successfully against the Syracuse zone was passing into a man at the free throw line and then having him immediately kick out to a shooter on the wing behind the three point line. It was a set play, the free throw line guy didn't hold it and make a decision, he just caught it and passed it out. The defense reacted by collapsing around the middle guy, leaving the shooter wide open. I saw them do this over and over, giving them open threes. Fortunately for us we tend to not swarm that free throw line guy, choosing to leave him open, but I'll be curious to see if they try to do this against our zone.

Also wanted to point out that Berry left yesterday's game briefly after what looked like a turned ankle. Cameron Johnson also left the court when a Miami player came down on him and looked like he jammed his hip or quad. It was a really physical game that I'm sure will have some lingering effects on them, as today will be their third game in three days whereas we got to play a relatively stress-free game yesterday. Despite playing 39 minutes Allen looked pretty rested in his post-game interview on the court. He was barely sweating and had the posture of a professor giving a lecture. But with Carter being hurt and Bagley having jammed his finger, both teams will be pretty banged up.

Wander
03-09-2018, 09:50 AM
Saw some article this am stating that if UnC were to beat Duke and then UVA and Kansas loses, they would get last #1 seed. Bleh. No thanks. We’ll just beat them now.

Nah, no way UNC can pass UVA.

I had a dream last night that DeLaurier scored double digits in this game. That's all I have to offer.

jacone21
03-09-2018, 10:00 AM
1) Keep our turnovers down anywhere 5-10 and don't let those be run out turnovers.
2) Block out. The cheats are a good offensive rebounding team. Make the refs call over the back fouls.
3) Do a good job of locating their three point shooters.
4) Don't let Berry penetrate our zone.

GoDuke!

5) Get your butts back in transition.

UrinalCake
03-09-2018, 10:00 AM
Saw some article this am stating that if UnC were to beat Duke and then UVA and Kansas loses, they would get last #1 seed. Bleh. No thanks. We’ll just beat them now.

The way I read that, it is saying that UNC could lose to Clemson in the ACCT Final and still get a #1. They would have ten losses at that point. They do have some good wins including out of conference victories over Ohio State, Tennessee, and Michigan, and in that scenario they would have beaten us twice. But I can't fathom a team with ten losses getting a #1. Of course, if any team ever did it would be UNC.

EDIT: whoops, I just re-read the OP and realize that I misunderstood it. He is saying that UNC wins the ACCT. Still, I don't think that would be enough for a #1, but it would also depend on what Xavier does.

cbarry
03-09-2018, 10:02 AM
I don’t think DukeWarHead was implying UNC would pass UVA, as UVA Locke’s up the overall #1 seed, win or lose. I guess UNC has an outside shot (as do we) at one of the other #1 seeds


Nah, no way UNC can pass UVA.

I had a dream last night that DeLaurier scored double digits in this game. That's all I have to offer.

freshmanjs
03-09-2018, 10:04 AM
The way I read that, it is saying that UNC could lose to Clemson in the ACCT Final and still get a #1. They would have ten losses at that point. They do have some good wins including out of conference victories over Ohio State, Tennessee, and Michigan, and in that scenario they would have beaten us twice. But I can't fathom a team with ten losses getting a #1. Of course, if any team ever did it would be UNC.

It says they have to beat Duke and UVA.

Troublemaker
03-09-2018, 10:09 AM
One of the plays that they ran very successfully against the Syracuse zone was passing into a man at the free throw line and then having him immediately kick out to a shooter on the wing behind the three point line. It was a set play, the free throw line guy didn't hold it and make a decision, he just caught it and passed it out. The defense reacted by collapsing around the middle guy, leaving the shooter wide open. I saw them do this over and over, giving them open threes. Fortunately for us we tend to not swarm that free throw line guy, choosing to leave him open, but I'll be curious to see if they try to do this against our zone.

I've been so impressed with how patient the coaches and players have been when a team hits a few those FT area shots. We don't panic and bend the zone out of shape and open up other things. If Duke's center goes out to play Colson, it opens up the pass to the slot man, which often turns into a layup attempt. And if the guards or wings dig down, it opens up three-pt shots outside. Make them beat us from floater-to-long2 range. No layups, no threes.

szstark
03-09-2018, 10:12 AM
Do we come out early with the 3/4 court press? Or do we anticipate them going over it extensively and only use it randomly to throw them off?
Do we try to speed the game up?
Which Duval shows up?
Does Carolina miss as many shots? They move the ball very easy through the zone and get plenty of open jumpers.
Who gets the other big men in foul trouble first?
Can we make free throws?

The holes should be okay. They have played 2 easy games and played a bunch of players. They have also played two games and their starters have averaged 32 minutes in both games.
Im for 3/4 court pressing them most of the game. It keeps them from passing the ball around the zone for 25-27 seconds. 3/4 court gives them about 18-22 seconds once their O is set. Those extra 5-7 seconds is an extra pass or two.
Work inside-out. Get their bigs in foul trouble. At the same time it prevents them from getting into transition from long rebounds. They really feed off getting fast break points. I have noticed the Holes' demeanor and execution go way down when they arent getting into transition every few possessions.
Duval/Allen attack the middle of the D and dish to the big men down low.
Make free throws.

I’ve seen this comment about the 3/4 press before and it confuses me. Doesn’t the press the way we play it slow down the other team down rather than speed them up? I think the objective of our press is to make the other team use as much of the shot clock as possible, have our defense play the least amount of time as possible against a set offense, and make the offense take rushed shots as time expires.

COYS
03-09-2018, 10:16 AM
Anyone who thinks that the extra rest we'd get by not playing in the final tomorrow is crazy, in my eyes. A one seed is up for grabs. A win against our cheating rivals is on the line. Pride is on the line. A potential championship is on the line. Sure, we can cite the 2015 team that managed to win the NCAAT after losing its first game in the ACCT. But that team had already sealed a number 1 seed and only had 4 losses after the ACCT loss to the Irish. This year's squad has six losses and can't afford another without missing out on a top seed. People cite UNC last year. Well, the same logic applies. UNC snagged a one seed despite losing to us in the semis. I don't see any path to a 1 seed if we don't win tonight. The 2013 team also lost its first game in the ACCT and lost a 1 seed in the process. The result? We had to play Louisville in the Elite Eight. A one seed would have helped us avoid Louisville until either the semis or the final. That Duke team was playing excellent basketball. Louisville might well have been the only team that could have beaten us that year. And if we had met Louisville on a different day in a different arena at the Final Four, who knows what would have happened? As Kedsy has noted many times, getting a one seed, regardless of where we end up, dramatically increases our chances of making the Final Four. The 2010 team probably needed to win the ACCT to secure a 1-seed. Despite a paper thin rotation, that team gutted out three wins for the ACCT, got a 1-seed in the process, and went on to win the whole thing. Who knows if that team wins it all if it ended up as a 2-seed. Our chances to make the Final Four are diminished if we don't win today. Plus, we've had games in awful environments even when we haven't been shipped to the western bracket. The 2010 team had to play Baylor in a semi-away game in Houston and then had to play what was basically a true road game to beat Butler for the title. So there's no guarantee we won't end up with a difficult match-up geographically speaking even if we stay in the East or the South.

I could MAYBE see wanting an extra day of rest if we knew for certain it would mean a perfectly healthy Wendell come next weekend. But we're not even guaranteed that. Meanwhile, WE'RE PLAYING UNCheat! Perhaps I could justify seeing the upside in a loss to Clemson, UVA or some other ACC school. But NOT to UNC. Never.

Finally, if there is any chance at all that we might be without Wendell for a few games in the NCAAT, it is waaaaay better that we get some extra games in without him now. The timing is slightly different this year, but the 2001 team steamrolled UNC in the ACC Title game and honed its Boozer-less style of play in the process. That team was even thinner without Boozer than this year's team is without Wendell (J-Will, Mike D Jr, Shane, CDu, Casey Sanders, and the original BadI'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. Nate James were basically the entire rotation) and played a more fatiguing style (hyper-pressure MTM defense), yet they were able to recover in time to bring home Championship #3 after also winning the NCAAT. So if Wendell is going to be out or if he will play but his contributions will be limited, I want as many chances to figure out how to manage that . . . preferably by winning games at the same time.

jv001
03-09-2018, 10:17 AM
Some betting lines showing Duke a 4.5 point favorite against the cheats. It will probably fluctuate during the day. I'll just take a win for Duke with no more injuries. I thought that Bonzie might hurt someone last night, being the thug he is. GoDuke!

Matches
03-09-2018, 10:17 AM
I don't know if fatigue will be an issue for the heels, they are right about their average of low 30's for the starters in both games. I think whomever gets to play UVa will definitely have some issues.

Feh. They'll be fine. So will we. I want to start a drinking game for every instance of the announcers going on about how it's some sort of massive undertaking for a 18-20 year old well-conditioned highly-skilled athlete to play basketball three days in a row, but I'm afraid I'd kill myself by halftime.

Last night ESPN flashed a graphic showing the distance the ND players had run during games over three days, and Farrell was at like 7.5 miles - in three days - and they were acting like it was amazing his legs were still attached to his body. That's *nothing* to these guys. Expect both Duke and UNC at full strength and energy tonight (and hopefully Carter healthy).

ns7
03-09-2018, 10:18 AM
Looks like the line opened Duke -4 and is now Duke -4.5

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-09-2018, 10:20 AM
Feh. They'll be fine. So will we. I want to start a drinking game for every instance of the announcers going on about how it's some sort of massive undertaking for a 18-20 year old well-conditioned highly-skilled athlete to play basketball three days in a row, but I'm afraid I'd kill myself by halftime.

Last night ESPN flashed a graphic showing the distance the ND players had run during games over three days, and Farrell was at like 7.5 miles - in three days - and they were acting like it was amazing his legs were still attached to his body. That's *nothing* to these guys. Expect both Duke and UNC at full strength and energy tonight (and hopefully Carter healthy).

If I ran 7.5 miles in three days, I would be a shell of a person. But I am not a twenty year old athlete in peak condition.

I think the only rationalization for weariness is the pressure of playing X number of consecutive elimination games in X days.

UrinalCake
03-09-2018, 10:25 AM
It says they have to beat Duke and UVA.

Sorry, I misunderstood "if UnC were to beat Duke and then UVA and Kansas loses." I interpreted it as


if (UnC were to beat Duke) and then (UVA and Kansas loses)

rather than


if (UnC were to beat Duke and then UVA) and (Kansas loses)

I'm supposed to be working today writing some code; does this count?

Grayson Redick
03-09-2018, 10:39 AM
The only things I have ever said that could possibly be construed as "not negative" about UNC has been a respect for Berry and Paige over the years. They both seem like legitimately good dudes.

#1 seed!

If you are basing your opinion solely on how JB plays basketball and on the court demeanor, I'm not sure how you can consider him a legitimately good dude.

Spanarkel
03-09-2018, 10:40 AM
I've been so impressed with how patient the coaches and players have been when a team hits a few those FT area shots. We don't panic and bend the zone out of shape and open up other things. If Duke's center goes out to play Colson, it opens up the pass to the slot man, which often turns into a layup attempt. And if the guards or wings dig down, it opens up three-pt shots outside. Make them beat us from floater-to-long2 range. No layups, no threes.

Seemed like a good many layups/dunks last night by ND.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/playbyplay?gameId=401019994

CDu
03-09-2018, 10:43 AM
Seemed like a good many layups/dunks last night by ND.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/playbyplay?gameId=401019994

They certainly got SOME of those. But they were ultimately still only scoring less than a point per possession. A lot of those dunk/layups were second-chance points off offensive rebounds.

COYS
03-09-2018, 10:46 AM
Seemed like a good many layups/dunks last night by ND.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/playbyplay?gameId=401019994

That shot chart shows how well we guarded against the three. ND only attempted three total three pointers from a reasonable range. The rest were from NBA range or beyond. And while we gave up some shots at the rim, remember that a lot of those threes from way beyond the arc are the result of good defense that caused the Irish to have no choice but to jack up a shot from Manhattan. Also, ND did about as good a job as they could hope for hitting midrange twos and they still didn’t score 1 point per possession for the game.

ns7
03-09-2018, 10:50 AM
That shot chart shows how well we guarded against the three. ND only attempted three total three pointers from a reasonable range. The rest were from NBA range or beyond. And while we gave up some shots at the rim, remember that a lot of those threes from way beyond the arc are the result of good defense that caused the Irish to have no choice but to jack up a shot from Manhattan. Also, ND did about as good a job as they could hope for hitting midrange twos and they still didn’t score 1 point per possession for the game.

Thanks for sharing. Appears based on a quick analysis that ND was 3-6 on the closer in 3pt shots and 2-17 on the longer 3pt shots. So that leads me to believe that the zone did a good job forcing longer 3pt shots which ND had trouble making.

David Bunkley
03-09-2018, 10:50 AM
At this point, it really feels like Duke is competing against their own human nature. This team is talented and knows it. Barring a ridiculous shooting night or something like that, then I think it would take a rash of turnovers - like what we saw vs VT - to derail this team. This team has proven it can overcome a lot, including poor shooting nights, so as long as they take care of the ball and continue to play the kind of defense we've become accustomed to seeing, then I really like this team's chances to cut down the nets in both Brooklyn and San Antonio.

#GODUKE

uh_no
03-09-2018, 10:55 AM
At this point, it really feels like Duke is competing against their own human nature. This team is talented and knows it. Barring a ridiculous shooting night or something like that, then I think it would take a rash of turnovers - like what we saw vs VT - to derail this team. This team has proven it can overcome a lot, including poor shooting nights, so as long as they take care of the ball and continue to play the kind of defense we've become accustomed to seeing, then I really like this team's chances to cut down the nets in both Brooklyn and San Antonio.

#GODUKE

we're still only 3 halves of basketball separated from an extended poor offensive stretch. It seems we've turned a corner, but still too early to be "sure" IMO.

camion
03-09-2018, 11:07 AM
we're still only 3 halves of basketball separated from an extended poor offensive stretch. It seems we've turned a corner, but still too early to be "sure" IMO.

It's hard to say. Frequently when you turn a corner you find... another corner. :eek:

David Bunkley
03-09-2018, 11:08 AM
we're still only 3 halves of basketball separated from an extended poor offensive stretch. It seems we've turned a corner, but still too early to be "sure" IMO.

That stretch was mostly due to the aforementioned rash of turnovers, but you are right - it is definitely too early to be sure.

I just think that if this team loses, it'll be more self-inflicted than imposed.

#GODUKE

jipops
03-09-2018, 11:12 AM
In the two games vs. the cheats we've played one half of good basketball. Conversely, I haven't seen the cheats play even one half of good basketball in the matchup this season. Both games have displayed a pretty low-level brand of ball. Major keys seem to be limiting turnovers (thereby limiting their transition opportunities) and beating them on the boards. I'm expecting the offense to be pretty ugly in this one but it would be nice to see Trevon and Grayson drive inside to shift their defense. A stalling offense could hurt as I think possibly losing Carter will hurt us on defense as he has provided us a solid anchor in the zone. His possible absence will open up a lot of opportunities for Maye and Pinson in the paint. If the cheats start getting good looks from 3 it won't be a good night for us.

slower
03-09-2018, 11:22 AM
we're still only 3 halves of basketball separated from an extended poor offensive stretch. It seems we've turned a corner, but still too early to be "sure" IMO.
Yeah, some people are getting WAY too far ahead of themselves. As always, anything is possible.

devildeac
03-09-2018, 11:40 AM
Sorry, I misunderstood "if UnC were to beat Duke and then UVA and Kansas loses." I interpreted it as


if (UnC were to beat Duke) and then (UVA and Kansas loses)

rather than


if (UnC were to beat Duke and then UVA) and (Kansas loses)

I'm supposed to be working today writing some code; does this count?

Suggestions for your code writing. Try this:

9F9F9F

Or:

GTHc, GTH

;)

gocanes0506
03-09-2018, 12:25 PM
I’ve seen this comment about the 3/4 press before and it confuses me. Doesn’t the press the way we play it slow down the other team down rather than speed them up? I think the objective of our press is to make the other team use as much of the shot clock as possible, have our defense play the least amount of time as possible against a set offense, and make the offense take rushed shots as time expires.

It does both if that makes sense.

The zones slows their ability to bring the ball up the court and slows down their ability to get into their set offense.

With that slow down, a 5-8 second difference than the 2-3 second jog up the floor, they have to speed up their offensive execution in the half court.

Shot clock in your head gets shorter with the longer it takes to get the offense set. We saw Maye take rushed shots, presumably having a shorter shot clock in his head, during the press.

David Bunkley
03-09-2018, 12:38 PM
Yeah, some people are getting WAY too far ahead of themselves. As always, anything is possible.

I am a bit confused by this - I was simply stating my opinion that if Duke loses from here on out, it will most likely be because of careless turnovers, not because they are facing a superior team.

#GODUKE

uh_no
03-09-2018, 12:41 PM
It does both if that makes sense.

The zones slows their ability to bring the ball up the court and slows down their ability to get into their set offense.

With that slow down, a 5-8 second difference than the 2-3 second jog up the floor, they have to speed up their offensive execution in the half court.

Shot clock in your head gets shorter with the longer it takes to get the offense set. We saw Maye take rushed shots, presumably having a shorter shot clock in his head, during the press.

several times last night ND couldn't start running any offense until the clock was at 17-18.

uh_no
03-09-2018, 12:42 PM
I am a bit confused by this - I was simply stating my opinion that if Duke loses from here on out, it will most likely be because of careless turnovers, not because they are facing a superior team.

#GODUKE

While I agree somewhat, if you lose because you commit turnovers all the time, one could argue you're not, in fact, the superior team. Turnovers are part of the game....and a team that commits them is inferior to one that does not.

David Bunkley
03-09-2018, 12:49 PM
While I agree somewhat, if you lose because you commit turnovers all the time, one could argue you're not, in fact, the superior team. Turnovers are part of the game...and a team that commits them is inferior to one that does not.

Perhaps superior was a poor word choice.

Have a great afternoon!

#GODUKE

subzero02
03-09-2018, 01:03 PM
We are favored by 4 points and only Joel Berry is listed on the injury report, he's probable, Carter isn't mentioned.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/

slower
03-09-2018, 01:27 PM
While I agree somewhat, if you lose because you commit turnovers all the time, one could argue you're not, in fact, the superior team. Turnovers are part of the game...and a team that commits them is inferior to one that does not.

Exactly. You beat me to it.

Even though Duke MAY (on paper and in actuality) have the most talent, it doesn't necessarily mean we're the best TEAM. On some nights, maybe we are. On other nights, clearly, we're not. I just don't like the assumption that only "we" can beat ourselves.

devildeac
03-09-2018, 01:48 PM
Exactly. You beat me to it.

Even though Duke MAY (on paper and in actuality) have the most talent, it doesn't necessarily mean we're the best TEAM. On some nights, maybe we are. On other nights, clearly, we're not. I just don't like the assumption that only "we" can beat ourselves.

Y'all know the tune:

Ademola Okulaja says hello. (clap, clap)
Ademola Okulaja says hello. (clap, clap)
Ademola Okulaja, Ademola Okulaja
Ademola Okulaja says hello. (clap, clap)

(And, in case folks were not aware, he is a cancer survivor and I do have some feelings but I couldn't resist given the opportunity/reference.)

FerryFor50
03-09-2018, 02:05 PM
We are favored by 4 points and only Joel Berry is listed on the injury report, he's probable, Carter isn't mentioned.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/

Interesting that Cam Johnson isn't mentioned. When he went down last night, I thought his season was over by his reaction. :rolleyes:

David Bunkley
03-09-2018, 02:05 PM
Exactly. You beat me to it.

Even though Duke MAY (on paper and in actuality) have the most talent, it doesn't necessarily mean we're the best TEAM. On some nights, maybe we are. On other nights, clearly, we're not. I just don't like the assumption that only "we" can beat ourselves.

I think Duke is the most talented team in the country, though at times they have struggled with unforced turnovers. Now that the defense seems to functioning at a consistently high level, those unforced turnovers seem like the biggest possible threat to Duke's postseason success, barring a ridiculous shooting night by an opposing team. Those turnovers seem to contribute to the offensive droughts this team has experienced at times, more so than poor shooting, poor shot selection, or (other than UVA) great defense.

Usually, when a team struggles with unforced turnovers a phrase like "they beat themselves" is perfectly acceptable. I am not sure why it is not in this case, but I feel like this conversation has devolved into something other than its original intent. That may be my fault for poor word choice. Either way, I am looking forward to tonight and beyond, with the hope that this team continues to grow and lives up to both its expectations and talent level.

#GODUKE

brlftz
03-09-2018, 02:21 PM
Y'all know the tune:

Ademola Okulaja says hello. (clap, clap)
Ademola Okulaja says hello. (clap, clap)
Ademola Okulaja, Ademola Okulaja
Ademola Okulaja says hello. (clap, clap)

(And, in case folks were not aware, he is a cancer survivor and I do have some feelings but I couldn't resist given the opportunity/reference.)

I like what we originally sang in Cameron, which was an excellent response to Okulaja's claim that only the cheats can beat the cheats.

Ademola Okulaja beats himself (clap clap)
Ademola Okulaja beats himself (clap clap)
Ademola Okulaja, Ademola Okulaja
Ademola Okulaja beats himself. (clap, clap)

slower
03-09-2018, 02:35 PM
I think Duke is the most talented team in the country, though at times they have struggled with unforced turnovers. Now that the defense seems to functioning at a consistently high level, those unforced turnovers seem like the biggest possible threat to Duke's postseason success, barring a ridiculous shooting night by an opposing team. Those turnovers seem to contribute to the offensive droughts this team has experienced at times, more so than poor shooting, poor shot selection, or (other than UVA) great defense.

Usually, when a team struggles with unforced turnovers a phrase like "they beat themselves" is perfectly acceptable. I am not sure why it is not in this case, but I feel like this conversation has devolved into something other than its original intent. That may be my fault for poor word choice. Either way, I am looking forward to tonight and beyond, with the hope that this team continues to grow and lives up to both its expectations and talent level.

#GODUKE

Hey, please don't take it personally - it wasn't directed at you specifically. I actually appreciate a lot of the optimism on here, but sometimes it just feels like watching Charlie Brown running to kick that football.

mr. synellinden
03-09-2018, 02:43 PM
Anyone who thinks that the extra rest we'd get by not playing in the final tomorrow is crazy, in my eyes. A one seed is up for grabs. A win against our cheating rivals is on the line. Pride is on the line. A potential championship is on the line. Sure, we can cite the 2015 team that managed to win the NCAAT after losing its first game in the ACCT. But that team had already sealed a number 1 seed and only had 4 losses after the ACCT loss to the Irish. This year's squad has six losses and can't afford another without missing out on a top seed. People cite UNC last year. Well, the same logic applies. UNC snagged a one seed despite losing to us in the semis. I don't see any path to a 1 seed if we don't win tonight. The 2013 team also lost its first game in the ACCT and lost a 1 seed in the process. The result? We had to play Louisville in the Elite Eight. A one seed would have helped us avoid Louisville until either the semis or the final. That Duke team was playing excellent basketball. Louisville might well have been the only team that could have beaten us that year. And if we had met Louisville on a different day in a different arena at the Final Four, who knows what would have happened? As Kedsy has noted many times, getting a one seed, regardless of where we end up, dramatically increases our chances of making the Final Four. The 2010 team probably needed to win the ACCT to secure a 1-seed. Despite a paper thin rotation, that team gutted out three wins for the ACCT, got a 1-seed in the process, and went on to win the whole thing. Who knows if that team wins it all if it ended up as a 2-seed. Our chances to make the Final Four are diminished if we don't win today. Plus, we've had games in awful environments even when we haven't been shipped to the western bracket. The 2010 team had to play Baylor in a semi-away game in Houston and then had to play what was basically a true road game to beat Butler for the title. So there's no guarantee we won't end up with a difficult match-up geographically speaking even if we stay in the East or the South.

I could MAYBE see wanting an extra day of rest if we knew for certain it would mean a perfectly healthy Wendell come next weekend. But we're not even guaranteed that. Meanwhile, WE'RE PLAYING UNCheat! Perhaps I could justify seeing the upside in a loss to Clemson, UVA or some other ACC school. But NOT to UNC. Never.

Finally, if there is any chance at all that we might be without Wendell for a few games in the NCAAT, it is waaaaay better that we get some extra games in without him now. The timing is slightly different this year, but the 2001 team steamrolled UNC in the ACC Title game and honed its Boozer-less style of play in the process. That team was even thinner without Boozer than this year's team is without Wendell (J-Will, Mike D Jr, Shane, CDu, Casey Sanders, and the original BadI'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. Nate James were basically the entire rotation) and played a more fatiguing style (hyper-pressure MTM defense), yet they were able to recover in time to bring home Championship #3 after also winning the NCAAT. So if Wendell is going to be out or if he will play but his contributions will be limited, I want as many chances to figure out how to manage that . . . preferably by winning games at the same time.



You must spread some Comments around before commenting on COYS again.


I’ll have what s/he’s having

Well done.

devildeac
03-09-2018, 02:48 PM
I like what we originally sang in Cameron, which was an excellent response to Okulaja's claim that only the cheats can beat the cheats.

Ademola Okulaja beats himself (clap clap)
Ademola Okulaja beats himself (clap clap)
Ademola Okulaja, Ademola Okulaja
Ademola Okulaja beats himself. (clap, clap)

Of course the original's better. :)

Devilwin
03-09-2018, 03:31 PM
I move that we replace “cheating losers” in the thread title with “cheating pond scum” as was the case last week in the MOTM thread. Three reasons:

1. It has a nicer ring to it
2. I like consistnency and am a little superstitious, let’s stick with what we know works
3. Current title is demeaning to losers everywhere

That is all.

True, but it ain't fair to self respecting pond scum everywhere...

CDu
03-09-2018, 03:35 PM
As if this game didn't matter enough, there is another wrinkle to the matchup tonight. We are currently 26-6, sitting at #4 in the RPI with an iffy Q1 profile. UNC is sitting at 24-9, #5 in the RPI, with a very nice Q1 profile. And we currently sit at an even head-to-head at 1-1. If we lose this game, it very much introduces the possibility (I might go as far as to say it would become likely that) UNC would surpass us on the 2 line. At that point, they'd likely pass us in RPI, and would have the edge in the head to head (2-1). If both teams are sitting on the 2 line, it would be very difficult to argue that we should be ahead of UNC based on anything that considers W/L against good teams.

So, on top of it being always nicer to beat UNC than to not, and for the chance to win the ACC title, and for the chance at redemption vs UVa, and for the chance at a 1 seed, we have even that much more reason to want to win this game.

Ian
03-09-2018, 03:37 PM
I think Duke is the most talented team in the country, though at times they have struggled with unforced turnovers. Now that the defense seems to functioning at a consistently high level, those unforced turnovers seem like the biggest possible threat to Duke's postseason success, barring a ridiculous shooting night by an opposing team. Those turnovers seem to contribute to the offensive droughts this team has experienced at times, more so than poor shooting, poor shot selection, or (other than UVA) great defense.

Usually, when a team struggles with unforced turnovers a phrase like "they beat themselves" is perfectly acceptable. I am not sure why it is not in this case, but I feel like this conversation has devolved into something other than its original intent. That may be my fault for poor word choice. Either way, I am looking forward to tonight and beyond, with the hope that this team continues to grow and lives up to both its expectations and talent level.

#GODUKE

I think the issue is that tendency to turn the ball over is not an accident, it's a characteristic. Teams that tends to turn the ball over tends to do it consistently. Just like poor free throw shooting is also a characteristic. If Duke loses because they miss a bunch of FTs. You probably would also think "Duke beat themsevles". Which is in a way true, but the characteristic of a great team is that they don't beat themselves.

Bob Green
03-09-2018, 03:53 PM
So, on top of it being always nicer to beat UNC than to not, and for the chance to win the ACC title, and for the chance at redemption vs UVa, and for the chance at a 1 seed, we have even that much more reason to want to win this game.

As fans, beating Carolina is all the reason we need to want to win this game. For the players, the extra motivation of chance to win ACC title, chance at redemption vs UVa and chance to be a 1 seed could be vital. What I desire to say could probably be worded better but the players might not be as laser focused on wiping the floor with Carolina as us fans who have been emotionally involved with the rivalry* for many, many years. As a fan, I welcome all extra motivation for the players.

* please spare me the "they're not our rival" responses. Carolina will always be our rival. (General comment, not a comment directed toward CDu)

dukelifer
03-09-2018, 03:56 PM
As if this game didn't matter enough, there is another wrinkle to the matchup tonight. We are currently 26-6, sitting at #4 in the RPI with an iffy Q1 profile. UNC is sitting at 24-9, #5 in the RPI, with a very nice Q1 profile. And we currently sit at an even head-to-head at 1-1. If we lose this game, it very much introduces the possibility (I might go as far as to say it would become likely that) UNC would surpass us on the 2 line. At that point, they'd likely pass us in RPI, and would have the edge in the head to head (2-1). If both teams are sitting on the 2 line, it would be very difficult to argue that we should be ahead of UNC based on anything that considers W/L against good teams.

So, on top of it being always nicer to beat UNC than to not, and for the chance to win the ACC title, and for the chance at redemption vs UVa, and for the chance at a 1 seed, we have even that much more reason to want to win this game.

I agree. UNC is a the most dangerous team out of the ACC. Duke is the most talented and UNC is the most dangerous because they can shoot and have a ton of tourney experience where it counts. Johnson has become a difference maker for them and Pinson is a reliable jumpshot away from being a Pro. They have also turned up their D of late. Duke and UNC are very close but you can never count out Berry in big games- and I am worried that he may break out of his slump.

Bob Green
03-09-2018, 04:00 PM
Johnson has become a difference maker for them...

It was a huge stroke of good luck for Carolina when Johnson transferred to Chapel Hill. He provides a desperately needed extra offensive punch to their line up.

CDu
03-09-2018, 04:14 PM
It was a huge stroke of good luck for Carolina when Johnson transferred to Chapel Hill. He provides a desperately needed extra offensive punch to their line up.

Yeah, the addition of Johnson and the unexpected rise of Luke Maye took this team from a bubble team to a 2 or 3 seed in the NCAA tournament.

Kedsy
03-09-2018, 04:18 PM
UNC is different - not necessarily weaker. There are not many teams out there that can beat them.

Well, there are at least 9 teams that can beat them. Including us. Oh, and Wofford.

But, sorry, win or lose tonight, they are weaker.

dukelifer
03-09-2018, 04:24 PM
Yeah, the addition of Johnson and the unexpected rise of Luke Maye took this team from a bubble team to a 2 or 3 seed in the NCAA tournament.

Maye's rise was happening this time last year. The kid has worked his tail off. The game is slowed down that he seems to be in the right place at the right time. He has no explosiveness but is big and strong and has excellent hands. Johnson though is a real pain. He plays the role of Justin Jackson better than Justin Jackson. Their inside play is a mild weakness but it is not horrible. We joke about Roy on this board and his own fan base still does not revere him like Dean Smith, but the man knows how to coach and prepare his team- and of the remaining coaches out there is right behind K in all tourney categories. I am not liking what I am seeing from UNC. I hope Duke can shake their confidence.

CDu
03-09-2018, 04:34 PM
Maye's rise was happening this time last year. The kid has worked his tail off. The game is slowed down that he seems to be in the right place at the right time. He has no explosiveness but is big and strong and has excellent hands. Johnson though is a real pain. He plays the role of Justin Jackson better than Justin Jackson. Their inside play is a mild weakness but it is not horrible. We joke about Roy on this board and his own fan base still does not revere him like Dean Smith, but the man knows how to coach and prepare his team- and of the remaining coaches out there is right behind K in all tourney categories. I am not liking what I am seeing from UNC. I hope Duke can shake their confidence.

Maye was nothing like this last year. He was a #5 option whenever he was on the floor last year. He had one game that looked like this year's Maye, and that was against an undermanned and undersized Butler team. Aside from that, he was a "if you forget about him, he'll make a shot" guy. His emergence this year has been truly amazing: he has improved his scoring rate and his rebounding rate by 50% over last year, while also becoming an even better shooter.

I was expecting something along the lines of a 10-12 ppg, 6-8 rpg type of guy. Not an All-ACC guy averaging 17 and 10.

dukelifer
03-09-2018, 04:34 PM
Well, there are at least 9 teams that can beat them. Including us. Oh, and Wofford.

But, sorry, win or lose tonight, they are weaker.

I get the skepticism but here are the losses

1 head stratcher against Woford
1 big, early loss against MSU without Johnson
1 solid loss to UVA- but everyone loses to them
1 solid loss to VTech
1 solid loss to Duke

1 point loss at FSU
4 point OT loss against State that was avenged
3 point loss to Clemson
3 point loss to Miami

So yes they may have a smaller margin for error than last year (perhaps) -but they can get on a roll with their pieces.

dukelifer
03-09-2018, 04:39 PM
Maye was nothing like this last year. He was a #5 option whenever he was on the floor last year. He had one game that looked like this year's Maye, and that was against an undermanned and undersized Butler team. Aside from that, he was a "if you forget about him, he'll make a shot" guy. His emergence this year has been truly amazing: he has improved his scoring rate and his rebounding rate by 50% over last year, while also becoming an even better shooter.

I was expecting something along the lines of a 10-12 ppg, 6-8 rpg type of guy. Not an All-ACC guy averaging 17 and 10.
Well to be fair he also had a huge game against KY with 17 and almost a double double in the opening round. I agree that the jump is remarkable.

Kedsy
03-09-2018, 04:56 PM
So yes they may have a smaller margin for error than last year (perhaps) -but they can get on a roll with their pieces.

I understand what you're saying but don't agree. This year's UNC team is nowhere near as good as last year's UNC team. Even if you say that Johnson is equal to Jackson (and I'm not sure I would agree with that, but Johnson is pretty good), they lost Meeks, Hicks, and Bradley and replaced them with Manley and Brooks. Maye is having a great season, and Williams too, but I feel they're both somehow doing it with mirrors. Plus they have no depth at all.

I agree with you that ol' Roy has had one of his best coaching performances with this year's team -- potentially national honors level coaching -- but this Carolina team just isn't all that talented. They remind me in some ways of the 2006 UNC team that was 22-6 and ranked 10th in the country at this point that season but was a total overachiever. That team lost in the ACC semifinal, beat Murray State by 4 points in the 1st round of the NCAA tournament, then lost to George Mason in the 2nd round.

We'll see what happens this year.

devilseven
03-09-2018, 05:07 PM
It was a huge stroke of good luck for Carolina when Johnson transferred to Chapel Hill. He provides a desperately needed extra offensive punch to their line up.

Johnson's transfer was no accident. It was carefully planned and executed. Roy's buddy Stallings lost his job because of it.

dukelifer
03-09-2018, 05:21 PM
I understand what you're saying but don't agree. This year's UNC team is nowhere near as good as last year's UNC team. Even if you say that Johnson is equal to Jackson (and I'm not sure I would agree with that, but Johnson is pretty good), they lost Meeks, Hicks, and Bradley and replaced them with Manley and Brooks. Maye is having a great season, and Williams too, but I feel they're both somehow doing it with mirrors. Plus they have no depth at all.

I agree with you that ol' Roy has had one of his best coaching performances with this year's team -- potentially national honors level coaching -- but this Carolina team just isn't all that talented. They remind me in some ways of the 2006 UNC team that was 22-6 and ranked 10th in the country at this point that season but was a total overachiever. That team lost in the ACC semifinal, beat Murray State by 4 points in the 1st round of the NCAA tournament, then lost to George Mason in the 2nd round.

We'll see what happens this year.
I would be happy to see them repeat 2006 but their real talent was still very young then. Again we will see.

CDu
03-09-2018, 05:34 PM
I understand what you're saying but don't agree. This year's UNC team is nowhere near as good as last year's UNC team. Even if you say that Johnson is equal to Jackson (and I'm not sure I would agree with that, but Johnson is pretty good), they lost Meeks, Hicks, and Bradley and replaced them with Manley and Brooks. Maye is having a great season, and Williams too, but I feel they're both somehow doing it with mirrors. Plus they have no depth at all.

I agree with you that ol' Roy has had one of his best coaching performances with this year's team -- potentially national honors level coaching -- but this Carolina team just isn't all that talented. They remind me in some ways of the 2006 UNC team that was 22-6 and ranked 10th in the country at this point that season but was a total overachiever. That team lost in the ACC semifinal, beat Murray State by 4 points in the 1st round of the NCAA tournament, then lost to George Mason in the 2nd round.

We'll see what happens this year.

Eh, the main difference I see with this team compared to that 2006 team is that this team is fairly experienced (two seniors, one redshirt junior, two true juniors) whereas that UNC team was really inexperienced. At least the actual talent was. The veterans they had were not very good. The discrepancy was most notable at PG, where Joel Berry is a senior whereas Bobby Fraser was a frosh (and not all that good).

The other big difference is that this team plays a more spread-you-out style. Offensively, they are every bit as good as last year’s team. They do it differently, but they can score with anyone. Where they are worse is defensively. And oddly, where they are really worse is in defending 3s and in forcing turnovers. One would think that a smaller, more perimeter-oriented team would not be worse at those things, but they are.

Still, any top-10 team with shooters and veteran guards should be considered a threat in the tourney.

left_hook_lacey
03-09-2018, 05:58 PM
Looks like the line opened Duke -4 and is now Duke -4.5

I'm seeing opened at -4.5 and has dropped to -4.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/

devilseven
03-09-2018, 06:23 PM
I think we can all agree that there's a 4 in there somewhere.

HereBeforeCoachK
03-09-2018, 06:43 PM
Johnson's transfer was no accident. It was carefully planned and executed. Roy's buddy Stallings lost his job because of it.

Is that a literal statement, or just a jab?

devilseven
03-09-2018, 06:49 PM
Is that a literal statement, or just a jab?

I believe it to be literal, things like that do not happen by accident.

HereBeforeCoachK
03-09-2018, 06:51 PM
I believe it to be literal, things like that do not happen by accident.

I"m not doubting.....just axing

-jk
03-09-2018, 06:56 PM
DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.

As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

jv001
03-09-2018, 07:20 PM
I'm seeing opened at -4.5 and has dropped to -4.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/

T-Rank has Duke by 5 with score of 86-81. That would be the worst defense Duke has played in a while. I'll take a win no matter the score. I don't have access to Ken-Pom so I don't know what he thinks about the game. GoDuke!

BLPOG
03-09-2018, 07:57 PM
Drove up from VA, bought tickets, now I'm ready to watch some cheaters get taught a lesson.

9F9F9F

22JumpShots
03-09-2018, 08:10 PM
Drove up from VA, bought tickets, now I'm ready to watch some cheaters get taught a lesson.

9F9F9F

Nice! What was that drive like? Hopefully worth it my friend. I am waiting until ACC comes to NC next year.

uh_no
03-09-2018, 08:24 PM
Nice! What was that drive like? Hopefully worth it my friend. I am waiting until ACC comes to NC next year.

having driven from Durham through to CT several times a year for a while, so long as you don't leave at the wrong time, it's quite fine! Once you get past 85, you just go from city to city up the coast.

And then realize how much you spent on tolls :(

OldPhiKap
03-09-2018, 08:27 PM
Drove up from VA, bought tickets, now I'm ready to watch some cheaters get taught a lesson.

9F9F9F

May your efforts be rewarded, brother. (Or sister). GTH, C!!!!!!

IrishDevil
03-09-2018, 08:32 PM
Johnson's transfer was no accident. It was carefully planned and executed. Roy's buddy Stallings lost his job because of it.


Is that a literal statement, or just a jab?


I believe it to be literal, things like that do not happen by accident.

Link? Source? I know it's fun to bash Roy and Carolina, but belief doesn't take this out of the realm of rumor-mongering.

Acymetric
03-09-2018, 08:37 PM
Suggestions for your code writing. Try this:

9F9F9F

Or:

GTHc, GTH

;)

I have been trying to find an excuse to sneak this into code at work!

DangerDevil
03-09-2018, 08:49 PM
Drove up from VA, bought tickets, now I'm ready to watch some cheaters get taught a lesson.

9F9F9F

I hope you have a reason to buy tickets tomorrow night as well!

IHSV

Bluedog
03-09-2018, 09:25 PM
T-Rank has Duke by 5 with score of 86-81. That would be the worst defense Duke has played in a while. I'll take a win no matter the score. I don't have access to Ken-Pom so I don't know what he thinks about the game. GoDuke!

Kenpom says 85-81, so almost identical to t-rank. Gives Duke a 63% chance of victory.

cbarry
03-09-2018, 09:35 PM
Uh oh— TV Teddy is officiating the game.

riverside6
03-09-2018, 09:40 PM
Live tempo-based stats for Duke/UNC ...

https://www.scacchoops.com/unc-at-duke-basketball-live-stats-392018-930-pm

WHOneedsSOX
03-09-2018, 09:44 PM
Ugh that didn't look good.

DarkstarWahoo
03-09-2018, 09:46 PM
That looked ugly. Hope Duval is OK.

Acymetric
03-09-2018, 09:48 PM
No kidding. I've been a critic, but I hope he can get taped up and come back in, or worst case is good to go tomorrow. No major injuries please!

YmoBeThere
03-09-2018, 09:48 PM
That looked ugly. Hope Duval is OK.

This first four minutes have been ugly...

WHOneedsSOX
03-09-2018, 09:48 PM
This first four minutes have been ugly...

Such an ugly start.

3 turnovers and an airball?

Steven43
03-09-2018, 09:49 PM
No kidding. I've been a critic, but I hope he can get taped up and come back in, or worst case is good to go tomorrow. No major injuries please!

Looked season-ending to me.

wavedukefan70s
03-09-2018, 09:49 PM
No kidding. I've been a critic, but I hope he can get taped up and come back in, or worst case is good to go tomorrow. No major injuries please!

Looks like they are wrapping it up.we will know soon.

CDu
03-09-2018, 09:49 PM
Looked season-ending to me.

Not at all. I bet he plays sgain tonight.

Acymetric
03-09-2018, 09:49 PM
Carter seems to be using a lot of our possessions so far. Not a criticism, just interesting. Both teams mind-numbingly ineffective on offense.

DarkstarWahoo
03-09-2018, 09:50 PM
This first four minutes have been ugly...

Well, I thought I’d let the hosts assess that.

CDu
03-09-2018, 09:51 PM
Good news is that we can’t play worse offensively yet are down just 3.

wavedukefan70s
03-09-2018, 09:52 PM
Good news is that we can’t play worse offensively yet are down just 3.

Anti jinx.

DukeBlue666s
03-09-2018, 09:54 PM
Wooooooooooow. Looks like we are on our third game in three days.

Does Duke not like to show up the first half of games against UNC?

CDu
03-09-2018, 09:55 PM
Good news is that we can’t play worse offensively yet are down just 3.

Bad news is we have continued to struggle and now UNC is hitting.

bigperm13
03-09-2018, 09:55 PM
Couldn’t be a worse possible start. Need to get it together.

slower
03-09-2018, 09:55 PM
SO glad not to be watching this live.

Acymetric
03-09-2018, 09:55 PM
I am really enjoying watching Bolden as the season goes on. Really satisfying to see him playing well, different timelines but similar type of progression as Zoubek and Thomas (relatively highly regarded guys that took a bit longer than expected to find their college game).

Steven43
03-09-2018, 09:56 PM
Not at all. I bet he plays sgain tonight.

Wow, I sure hope you’re right.

CDu
03-09-2018, 09:58 PM
Wow, I sure hope you’re right.

I was right.

WHOneedsSOX
03-09-2018, 09:58 PM
Wow, I sure hope you’re right.

He's in but doesn't look the same. Noticeable limp.

gocanes0506
03-09-2018, 09:59 PM
He's in but doesn't look the same. Noticeable limp.

And another air ball

rsvman
03-09-2018, 09:59 PM
Worse start than the first half at Cameron.

Lot of ball left to play.

ice-9
03-09-2018, 10:00 PM
UNC is playing amazing defense, and we are helping them with momentum breaking mistakes (Bagley running the break and passing too hard? Grayson stepping out of bounds? Grayson overpassing to Carter? Duval turnover?).

In these situations, we need our senior leader to step up. We should be running a play for Grayson.

Wheat/"/"/"
03-09-2018, 10:00 PM
Best defense so far in the first half that I've seen UNC play all year.

CDu
03-09-2018, 10:00 PM
We have almost as many turnovers as FGA.

Acymetric
03-09-2018, 10:01 PM
With two guys nursing injuries the bench will need to contribute.

CDu
03-09-2018, 10:02 PM
Best defense so far in the first half that I've seen UNC play all year.

Getting a lot of help from our guys.

DangerDevil
03-09-2018, 10:02 PM
Worse start than the first half at Cameron.

Lot of ball left to play.

I didn't think it was possible for us to have a worse half than last Saturday, hopefully the end of the half is a different story. I still think we win this one pulling away!

Trey21
03-09-2018, 10:02 PM
not saying win or lose that this game decides if we have a high chance of being the champs, but saying that...

now would be a good time to start showing some mantle. got all the time left, time to see if these freshmen have learned poise. time to see if grayson can really be that senior leader. this is your last game against UNC and Joel man. Come on.

gocanes0506
03-09-2018, 10:03 PM
Duval needs to sit. Killing the O.

slower
03-09-2018, 10:03 PM
I still think we win this one pulling away!
Please, God - just stop.

ice-9
03-09-2018, 10:07 PM
Wow to our interior defense.

jipops
03-09-2018, 10:08 PM
Clearly this year, if you want to see decent basketball...don't watch Duke and the cheats play each other.

wavedukefan70s
03-09-2018, 10:10 PM
Offensive foul?

rsvman
03-09-2018, 10:11 PM
Offensive foul?

Head scratcher.

bigperm13
03-09-2018, 10:11 PM
Terrible call there on Bags. Just awful.

CDu
03-09-2018, 10:11 PM
Offensive foul?

I am guessing over the back on Bagley.

HereBeforeCoachK
03-09-2018, 10:11 PM
Offensive foul?

Who'd good ole Teddy V call that one on?

Wheat/"/"/"
03-09-2018, 10:12 PM
Players better understand to play thru contact, there's plenty of it out there...

godins
03-09-2018, 10:12 PM
I am guessing over the back on Bagley.

It seems the referee was also guessing that as well. Contact seemed innocuous to me, but I don't have replay to check it out.

Son of Mojo
03-09-2018, 10:12 PM
Is it just my eyes or should Maye be fouled out by now? I swear he's made bad contact on about 6 plays now defensively....

kako
03-09-2018, 10:12 PM
Would like to see Trent hit another and really get his mojo back. Would love to see him channel freshman year Redick and his tourney performance.

Also liking Bolden's play.

I'm thinking they can't keep Bagley bottled up. He's going to break out eventually.

Glad to see Duval back. If Pinson is on him, would love to try to get his 3rd foul.

DangerDevil
03-09-2018, 10:13 PM
Offensive foul?

Marvin had both of his up in the air and stood his ground???

In Teddy's defense the game was starting to get good, he had to reinsert his importance back into the game, it has been 10 minutes since his phantom whistle foul call on Trent against Maye.

DarkstarWahoo
03-09-2018, 10:13 PM
THE (other word for rear end) PASS

scottdude8
03-09-2018, 10:14 PM
How is there no backup whistle available? Jeeezus

kmspeaks
03-09-2018, 10:16 PM
Offensive foul?

NCAA refs pet peeve #1: allowing wrestling matches in the paint
NCAA refs pet peeve #2: when offensive players try to respond to the allowed contact they're called for a foul

Good job Teddy. You got em both tonight.

ice-9
03-09-2018, 10:16 PM
Never thought I'd say this about a Duke team, but I think we need to take more 3s from our perimeter players.

Acymetric
03-09-2018, 10:19 PM
Never thought I'd say this about a Duke team, but I think we need to take more 3s from our perimeter players.

Cats and dogs living with each other! Mass hysteria!

Wahoo2000
03-09-2018, 10:19 PM
Both games tonight refs are allowing VERY physical play.

robed deity
03-09-2018, 10:19 PM
NCAA refs pet peeve #1: allowing wrestling matches in the paint
NCAA refs pet peeve #2: when offensive players try to respond to the allowed contact they're called for a foul

Good job Teddy. You got em both tonight.

Agreed. It's a wrestling match and it's the ref's fault.

InSpades
03-09-2018, 10:21 PM
Ugliest 15 or so minutes of game time I've seen in at least 6 days...

Sometimes I think we're playing figure skating and we think degree of difficulty increases our point total.

Hopefully we follow it up w/ a similar 2nd half. Go Devils!

DaleDuke7
03-09-2018, 10:23 PM
Quick question: Can coaches still call timeouts or do players have to do it for them? Just wondering when I saw Berry signaling for a timeout for Roy.

DangerDevil
03-09-2018, 10:23 PM
Teddy was going to call a jump ball, too bad he was the closest ref to the play but was overruled

WHOneedsSOX
03-09-2018, 10:24 PM
Stop turning the ball over and they'll be fine.

Wheat/"/"/"
03-09-2018, 10:24 PM
Both games tonight refs are allowing VERY physical play.

It's March- the games always become more physical this time of year, the players have to mentally adjust.

wavedukefan70s
03-09-2018, 10:24 PM
Bagley has been hit harder than that all night.

WHOneedsSOX
03-09-2018, 10:25 PM
Teddy was going to call a jump ball, too bad he was the closest ref to the play but was overruled

Yup, other ref had no view at all. Terrible call.

Oh goodness, now we're going to get a million articles about Allen again for doing nothing.

DangerDevil
03-09-2018, 10:25 PM
And start Grayson Buttgate

Wheat/"/"/"
03-09-2018, 10:25 PM
Cheap shot by Grayson there...kid can't help himself.

ice-9
03-09-2018, 10:26 PM
Come on Grayson, seriously??

DarkstarWahoo
03-09-2018, 10:26 PM
That’s inadvertent.

wavedukefan70s
03-09-2018, 10:26 PM
He wasn't even looking that way.very poor officiating. no question.

WHOneedsSOX
03-09-2018, 10:26 PM
Chris Paul does that 10 times a game.

rsvman
03-09-2018, 10:26 PM
Oh, boy

Acymetric
03-09-2018, 10:27 PM
Am I agreeing with Jason Capel?

WHOneedsSOX
03-09-2018, 10:27 PM
Guarantee you if that isnt Allen it's nothing. Can't call a reputation call.

wavedukefan70s
03-09-2018, 10:28 PM
That was only called because it's allen.thats pure b.s.

Acymetric
03-09-2018, 10:28 PM
Chris Paul does that 10 times a game.

Not even his dirtiest play!

WHOneedsSOX
03-09-2018, 10:29 PM
That was only called because it's allen.thats pure b.s.

Could be a 6 point swing here it UNC scores.

gocanes0506
03-09-2018, 10:29 PM
Geez that is only a flagrant because it’s Grayson. Any other player and it is inadvertent play.

bigperm13
03-09-2018, 10:29 PM
Only because it was Grayson. Unreal.

InSpades
03-09-2018, 10:29 PM
Cheap shot by Grayson there...kid can't help himself.

Grayson's butt has as much right to that space as anyone else. That was one of the worst calls in the history of calls.

Utley
03-09-2018, 10:29 PM
They get the basket - free throws and the ball?

DangerDevil
03-09-2018, 10:29 PM
He wasn't even looking that way.very poor officiating. no question.

I agree 100%.

In slow motion does Grayson body movement look strange yes, but how did he see the guy, if his peripheral vision is that good that is amazing!

sbroc012
03-09-2018, 10:29 PM
Only called cause of the crowd. And it was purely frustration cause Allen got the crap fouled out of him the play before.

kako
03-09-2018, 10:29 PM
But gotta say it - it was really dumb by Allen.

DarkstarWahoo
03-09-2018, 10:30 PM
I believe the term of art is “twerk,” no?

WHOneedsSOX
03-09-2018, 10:30 PM
But gotta say it - it was really dumb by Allen.

Dumb play, probably a foul, not even close to an intentional foul.

Acymetric
03-09-2018, 10:30 PM
Make up call (but not enough).

They said this is Virginia's 9th ACC championship game...that surprised me. Would have guessed more for them.

kmspeaks
03-09-2018, 10:31 PM
That's some of the mildest contact between 2 players tonight but it gets a flagrant 1. Someone remind me again how referees are constantly evaluated and do a good job.

DUKIE V(A)
03-09-2018, 10:32 PM
Cheap shot by Grayson there...kid can't help himself.

Neither can you. 😂

Your boys are going down tonight.

Acymetric
03-09-2018, 10:32 PM
I agree 100%.

In slow motion does Grayson body movement look strange yes, but how did he see the guy, if his peripheral vision is that good that is amazing!

I've been watching Heroes again recently...maybe he has 360 vision or something!

DarkstarWahoo
03-09-2018, 10:32 PM
Make up call (but not enough).

They said this is Virginia's 9th ACC championship game...that surprised me. Would have guessed more for them.

We’d gone something like 20 years without even making the semis before Bennett turned it around.

scottdude8
03-09-2018, 10:33 PM
I think it’s very clear that there was only a call there because of super slo mo... if you watch tape long enough you can see anything. It also wasn’t a hugely dirty play. That said, Grayson HAS to know better.

kako
03-09-2018, 10:33 PM
Weak D at the end. But after all that happened, I'm totally good being only down by 5 at half.

I trust in K to adjust and "encourage" the Devils in the 2nd.

JD79
03-09-2018, 10:34 PM
Grayson Allen is an idiot. Is there no learning? I am embarrassed for Duke.

brlftz
03-09-2018, 10:34 PM
I cannot BELIEVE we let berry run it up the court like that

jwillfan
03-09-2018, 10:34 PM
Chat is toxic

Eternal Outlaw
03-09-2018, 10:34 PM
So every time the cheats hedge a screen and purposely bump the ball handler should be a T or flagrant foul right? How is that any different from what they called?

CDu
03-09-2018, 10:35 PM
Well, we played as bad a 10 minutes as we have all year, and are only down 5. We can do this.

kako
03-09-2018, 10:35 PM
Dumb play, probably a foul, not even close to an intentional foul.

Yup. But Allen has a rep. He needs to know that.

jwillfan
03-09-2018, 10:35 PM
Heh catching up here...not a lot better. Be better

Acymetric
03-09-2018, 10:35 PM
We’d gone something like 20 years without even making the semis before Bennett turned it around.

How many of the 9 was with Ralph Sampson?

As far as Grayson, I don't think he's worried about this nor should he. Last year was tough on him and I'm not sure he's totally back but I'm willing to bet he's learned to take the criticism in stride. Definitely a reputation call.

rsvman
03-09-2018, 10:36 PM
They get the basket - free throws and the ball?

Weird, right? How does the basket count if that was a foul? Should've been a dead ball.

Billy Dat
03-09-2018, 10:36 PM
If we keep them from shooting 3s, we win. I think we will and I think we’ll win.

jwillfan
03-09-2018, 10:37 PM
Jwill living up to my knock on him. Uncle Feater says no flagrant

InSpades
03-09-2018, 10:37 PM
If putting your butt into someone is a foul then every time you block out it's a foul. Getting in someone's way is not a flagrant foul, it's not even a foul. Please.

arnie
03-09-2018, 10:37 PM
End of half 5 seconds as ugly a defense as we can play. However, Heels don’t look comfortable to me, if we get it rolling early we win the game. Interesting that we have a troll early, will see if he hangs around.

BlueandWhite
03-09-2018, 10:37 PM
Weak D at the end. But after all that happened, I'm totally good being only down by 5 at half.

I trust in K to adjust and "encourage" the Devils in the 2nd.

Really not happy to see the poor job defending Joel Berry on that last drive.

wavedukefan70s
03-09-2018, 10:37 PM
If Bagley was a female he would be pregnant by Luke
maye.yet the call a common foul flagrant on allen.

accfanfrom1970
03-09-2018, 10:38 PM
Cheap shot by Grayson there...kid can't help himself.

And unc can't help cheating. Go away, the school you root for is a disgrace. Ban me, I don't care. What you think about Grayson pales in comparison to what I think of the program you root for. unc is the ultimate cheap shot to all of college basketball.

kako
03-09-2018, 10:38 PM
Weird, right? How does the basket count if that was a foul? Should've been a dead ball.

Flagrants are different. They can go back and video review them and assess after the whistle.

Wheat/"/"/"
03-09-2018, 10:38 PM
I thought that was a frustration foul by Grayson. He is struggling to get his game going and he showed it. He intentionally hip checked Brooks and when you do that, and there's no play on the ball, like a block out situation under the basket, it's gonna be a flagrant foul.

ncexnyc
03-09-2018, 10:39 PM
Why wasn't somebody assigned to harass the ball on the inbounds play after Trent made his second free throw? K. subs in Javin who promptly does his best imitation of a statue beneath our own basket as Berry goes coast to coast. Totally unreal.

gotoguy
03-09-2018, 10:40 PM
He wasn't setting a screen

CDu
03-09-2018, 10:40 PM
Weird, right? How does the basket count if that was a foul? Should've been a dead ball.

Because it wasn’t called live. You can’t undo a live-action result.

The correct call should have been a common foul in live action. They missed it. Then they felt they had to call something, and the only thing they could call was a flagrant. Bad officiating, but by rules the correct outcome given the bad no-call and bad call.

Ballboy1998
03-09-2018, 10:40 PM
I guess I should expect more from Grayson since he apparently has eyes in the back of his head. He literally backed out of the way of a ball handler to avoid a foul and got assessed a flagrant one (and count the basket 8 seconds later). These refs need to grow brains and nuts. Sorry.

Eternal Outlaw
03-09-2018, 10:40 PM
I thought that was a frustration foul by Grayson. He is struggling to get his game going and he showed it. He intentionally hip checked Brooks and when you do that, and there's no play on the ball, like a block out situation under the basket, it's gonna be a flagrant foul.

Your big guys outside do that every time our ball handler goes around a screen so you guys should be called for a flagrant every time right?

godins
03-09-2018, 10:41 PM
I thought that was a frustration foul by Grayson. He is struggling to get his game going and he showed it. He intentionally hip checked Brooks and when you do that, and there's no play on the ball, like a block out situation under the basket, it's gonna be a flagrant foul.

Is it a play on the ball when you hip check a shooter running around a screen (happens a million times a night). Of course not. Right -- find a new criterion to fit your explanation for that call being a flagrant. I'll be waiting.

DangerDevil
03-09-2018, 10:41 PM
Flagrants are different. They can go back and video review them and assess after the whistle.

Bilas went on one of his rants about this in last night's UNC game. I agree with him, I believe the intent of the Flagrant foul rule was no where close to how it is interpreted and enforced today.

InSpades
03-09-2018, 10:41 PM
I thought that was a frustration foul by Grayson. He is struggling to get his game going and he showed it. He intentionally hip checked Brooks and when you do that, and there's no play on the ball, like a block out situation under the basket, it's gonna be a flagrant foul.

Do you have any clue how to play basketball? Apparently not.

2 people bump into one another. 1 falls down. That's not even a foul.

Trey21
03-09-2018, 10:41 PM
side note since it's halftime:

any of yall tired of dan schulman and jay bilas's dry, puesdo intellectual hyperbole narrating this game? Not usually a huge commentator guy (Bill Walton legend), but these two just are too "pro" the best thing about college basketball is the energy. These two are like hershey's chocolate. Dry calls, manufactured praise and analysis, and they are just so square.

sagegrouse
03-09-2018, 10:42 PM
I thought that was a frustration foul by Grayson. He is struggling to get his game going and he showed it. He intentionally hip checked Brooks and when you do that, and there's no play on the ball, like a block out situation under the basket, it's gonna be a flagrant foul.

I hear ya' Wheat, but isn't "sticking out your butt" to impede progress the #1 move of every big man who ever lived? Why is it OK then, but gets called when it's done by a guard (or, at least, by Grayson)?

CDu
03-09-2018, 10:42 PM
I thought that was a frustration foul by Grayson. He is struggling to get his game going and he showed it. He intentionally hip checked Brooks and when you do that, and there's no play on the ball, like a block out situation under the basket, it's gonna be a flagrant foul.

Interesting that literally none of the experts agreed with you.

It should have been a live ball common foul. They missed it, and then overcompensated. Thankfully their mistake only cost the good guys two points.

Ballboy1998
03-09-2018, 10:43 PM
Duke should have brought a frat boy on the court to hip check someone too. Then it wouldn't have been an athletic issue.

We got this in the second half.

Acymetric
03-09-2018, 10:43 PM
Because it wasn’t called live. You can’t undo a live-action result.

The correct call should have been a common foul in live action. They missed it. Then they felt they had to call something, and the only thing they could call was a flagrant. Bad officiating, but by rules the correct outcome given the bad no-call and bad call.

I disagree. Calling the foul would have been the correct outcome. Not calling the foul and moving on is the incorrect but understandable (not necessarily acceptable) outcome. Retroactive flagrant is the WRONG outcome and is purely based on reputation (which is perfectly reasonable but way overblown).

kmspeaks
03-09-2018, 10:43 PM
I thought that was a frustration foul by Grayson. He is struggling to get his game going and he showed it. He intentionally hip checked Brooks and when you do that, and there's no play on the ball, like a block out situation under the basket, it's gonna be a flagrant foul.

He has a right to be frustrated with the amount of contact being allowed in this game. Every year the NCAA recognizes they have a problem with physicality and emphasize freedom of movement. Then every year in the post season they "let em play" aka don't call fouls. I don't think think either game tonight has been good basketball or fun to watch. Just a bunch of dudes running into each other and every now and then the orange thing gets close to the hoop.

CDu
03-09-2018, 10:44 PM
Do you have any clue how to play basketball? Apparently not.

2 people bump into one another. 1 falls down. That's not even a foul.

It was a foul. It just wasn’t a flagrant foul.

DangerDevil
03-09-2018, 10:44 PM
Interesting that literally none of the experts agreed with you.

It should have been a live ball common foul. They missed it, and then overcompensated. Thankfully their mistake only cost the good guys two points.

I don't even know if it should have been a regular foul, couldn't you argue Grayson is trying to get out of the way of the ball handler and gets run into and it is incidental contact away from the ball?

CDu
03-09-2018, 10:45 PM
I disagree. Calling the foul would have been the correct outcome. Not calling the foul and moving on is the incorrect but understandable (not necessarily acceptable) outcome. Retroactive flagrant is the WRONG outcome and is purely based on reputation (which is perfectly reasonable but way overblown).

I am not sure where we are in disagreement. I agree with everything you said. And nothing in my post disagrees.

Saratoga2
03-09-2018, 10:45 PM
My take is way too many TO's by Duke and several cases of brain freeze4, like letting Berry dribble the length of the court without opposition on the last play. Hope they get it back together but we need better guard play in the second half.

Acymetric
03-09-2018, 10:46 PM
I don't even know if it should have been a regular foul, couldn't you argue Grayson is trying to get out of the way of the ball handler and gets run into and it is incidental contact away from the ball?

You could argue that. I'm not sure it would be true, but there is a case there.

Papa John
03-09-2018, 10:46 PM
I don't even know if it should have been a regular foul, couldn't you argue Grayson is trying to get out of the way of the ball handler and gets run into and it is incidental contact away from the ball?

Correct. And, folks... let’s stop feeding the troll, please.

CDu
03-09-2018, 10:46 PM
I don't even know if it should have been a regular foul, couldn't you argue Grayson is trying to get out of the way of the ball handler and gets run into and it is incidental contact away from the ball?

You could argue that. It would be wrong, and you would be accused of seeing through deep blue glasses. It was a foul.

Wheat/"/"/"
03-09-2018, 10:46 PM
Interesting that literally none of the experts agreed with you.

It should have been a live ball common foul. They missed it, and then overcompensated. Thankfully their mistake only cost the good guys two points.

They made the only call they could under the rules when they reviewed it. It was obviously intentional.

gocanes0506
03-09-2018, 10:47 PM
Im going to bed. Here’s to hoping Allen makes the game winning shot.

CDu
03-09-2018, 10:47 PM
They made the only call they could under the rules when they reviewed it. It was obviously intentional.

They had two options actually. They chose the more egregious one.

ice-9
03-09-2018, 10:48 PM
Come on Grayson, seriously??

I actually got downvoted for the above comment so I'll clarify. (Downvote for the above, seriously??)

Do I believe it was on purpose? Yes I believe so. I don't stick out my butt like that randomly in life, much less basketball games, much less in the about the exact moment an opponent is running past me.

I agree in the grand scheme of things it's ticky-tack.

But it's not ticky-tack for Grayson because of his history, and as a senior leader he should be aware of that. Did that butt-bump even give Duke any advantage? Nope, not at all. It was all downside, no upside.

Btw, this is just an opinion.

I have no idea what's going on in Grayson's head and don't claim to. If it was really an accident or he was trying to avoid someone else then mea culpa, but I think we can all agree if we take off our Duke blue glasses that it looks bad.

Wheat/"/"/"
03-09-2018, 10:48 PM
Isn't name calling a board offense?
I'm a basketball fan discussing basketball, let's just discuss the game, OK?

Acymetric
03-09-2018, 10:50 PM
I am not sure where we are in disagreement. I agree with everything you said. And nothing in my post disagrees.

I was only disagreeing with your last sentence, I'm sure our disagreement is semantic.

This tournament sure is heavy on Imagine Dragons.

DUKIE V(A)
03-09-2018, 10:50 PM
1. Cut down on turnovers
2. Clean up defensive rebounds
3. Make free throws

Waynne
03-09-2018, 10:50 PM
10 TOs in first half, several of the head-scratching variety. Can't do that in the second half.

kako
03-09-2018, 10:50 PM
Save the Allen foul talk for later. I'm sure the Allen-watch will be back in full media force tomorrow, and everyone will get butt-foul overload.

9F. Go Duke!

Wheat/"/"/"
03-09-2018, 10:50 PM
They had two options actually. They chose the more egregious one.

No call or flagrant was their only choice, right?

wavedukefan70s
03-09-2018, 10:51 PM
They made the only call they could under the rules when they reviewed it. It was obviously intentional.

I disagree.

Utley
03-09-2018, 10:52 PM
K has been making all the right tweaks at halftime - let’s hope that continues

CDu
03-09-2018, 10:52 PM
No call or flagrant was their only choice, right?

Correct. No call was the other choice. And it was the appropriate one. By your logic, they could go back and assess a flagrant on virtually every possession.

Dukiedevil
03-09-2018, 10:52 PM
They had two options actually. They chose the more egregious one.

I actually don’t think they can call a regular foul in that situation. They have to call a flagrant or decide the foul was a standard one and they missed it.

InSpades
03-09-2018, 10:53 PM
It was a foul. It just wasn’t a flagrant foul.

What is the foul for getting in someone's way?