PDA

View Full Version : MBB: Duke vs. Notre Dame (3/8 7:00 pm ESPN) Pre-Game and In-Game Thread:



subzero02
03-07-2018, 09:21 PM
Bonzi's back, which is bad news for us. Hopefully Notre Dame will show signs of fatigue in their 3rd game in 3 days.

UrinalCake
03-07-2018, 09:25 PM
They looked gassed ten minutes into today's game. Must have opened up the NOZ to have enough energy to pull off that epic comeback. Tomorrow they will be dead tired. We can't underestimate them however.

weezie
03-07-2018, 09:26 PM
Somehow I think they'll rally their tired behinds and be as annoying as always.

duke4ever19
03-07-2018, 09:26 PM
Bonzi's back, which is bad news for us. Hopefully Notre Dame will show signs of fatigue in their 3rd game in 3 days.

He can hit that mid-range jumper, which is one obvious drawback to facing Notre Dame, but boy was he gassed out there. Props to him for gutting out that game, but I think we are fortunate to get the Irish going for their third game in three days.

OldPhiKap
03-07-2018, 09:27 PM
Will be a war. They may be tired, but they are experienced. This is all new for our kids.

Tripping William
03-07-2018, 09:29 PM
Death. Taxes. K v. Brey in ACC Tourney.

CDu
03-07-2018, 09:31 PM
Notre Dame doesn’t have any depth, their best player struggled today and will be playing his third game in three days after a LONG layoff. And the team had to spend a ton of energy fighting back tonight, after playing a tough game yesterday. And we are just much more talented than them. Things look favorable for us. We just have to go out and get it done.

Look forward to seeing the zone and 3/4 court pressure to work on their legs some more.

jv001
03-07-2018, 09:37 PM
He can hit that mid-range jumper, which is one obvious drawback to facing Notre Dame, but boy was he gassed out there. Props to him for gutting out that game, but I think we are fortunate to get the Irish going for their third game in three days.

Make Bonziiiiiiiiiiiiii put the ball on the floor and take it to our big guys. I don't think he'll have the lift to put it in the basket against our front line. Don't let him beat us by making the mid-range shot because he can hit it. I think our perimeter players can close out on the 3 point line. Like many have said, the ND players make me want to barf with that look on their face. GoDuke!

subzero02
03-07-2018, 09:45 PM
I misspelled his name... it's Bonzie... don't want to provide him with bulletin board material and have him go Bootsy on us tomorrow.

kAzE
03-07-2018, 10:18 PM
Bonzie still hasn't looked like his old self yet, but he always goes off against Duke. Bonzie vs Bagley and Carter is going to be a fun battle.

gocanes0506
03-07-2018, 10:30 PM
I hope we try to gas them out of the game early. 3/4 court press them and transition hard. Play 8-9 dudes early. Throw as many bodies at Farrell and Bonzi early to get them tired. Let Duval push the ball and make Farrell run a lot on D. I’d bet Brey will preach lengthy possessions and no live ball turnovers to slooooowww the game down. Duke has got to force controlled tempo. Every big man that Bonzi will gaurd will run the court well. Get him tired. Also force mismatches with Bonzi on MGIII on the perimeter. Drive to the basket and get some foul calls. When they switch to zone, let GTJR, AOC, and GA go to work from behind the arc.

Owen Meany
03-07-2018, 11:10 PM
Colson with 36 minutes, Farrell 39, Gibbs and Pflueger with 40 tonight (33, 37, 38 and 38 vs Pitt). Hopefully this will result in short shots, etc. I would expect this to show up in the second half, but Duke could hasten it by coming out strong (like vs NCSU in 2015).

Kedsy
03-07-2018, 11:33 PM
Bonzie still hasn't looked like his old self yet, but he always goes off against Duke.

Bonzie Colson vs. Duke (points/rebounds):

2015 (1): 8/3
2015 (2): 8/4
2015 (3): 17/5
2016 (1): 31/11
2016 (2): 12/12
2017 (1): 17/9
2017 (2): 29/9

So, he usually plays well against us, but I'd say he's only "gone off" in two of the seven games so far.

ndkjr70
03-07-2018, 11:44 PM
Bonzie will get his. Farrell will get his. This is a team that has the capabilities of shooting lights out, but tends to... not. Make Bonzie run, don’t let Farrell get in your head (he’s an agitator for sure. Tends to push every button but never get called for a foul).

There’s no real reason Duke should lose this game, but I thought the same thing in 2015 and 2016.

uh_no
03-07-2018, 11:47 PM
Bonzie will get his. Farrell will get his. This is a team that has the capabilities of shooting lights out, but tends to... not. Make Bonzie run, don’t let Farrell get in your head (he’s an agitator for sure. Tends to push every button but never get called for a foul).

There’s no real reason Duke should lose this game, but I thought the same thing in 2015 and 2016.

And last week vs VT, and a couple weeks before that in new york :D

Anyway, duke plays defense the way they have of late, they SHOULD be okay.

First half UNC offense: we're in for a rough day
Second half UNC offense: on to the semi's! (and probably the heels again....)

proelitedota
03-08-2018, 12:33 AM
Plays lots of subs. Make this into a marathon. If we somehow fall behind big again I would not want to risk an injury trying to mount a comeback.

Either win easy or lose easy.

bdbrown19
03-08-2018, 01:02 AM
I really hope Notre Dame's fatigue gets to them. They are not your typical 10 seed. I still have confidence Duke will win because of the extra rest , 78 - 62.

cato
03-08-2018, 01:50 AM
Notre Dame’s legs will be just fine. And they are going to be ready to roll from the tip.

Duke better be ready to match their energy.

juise
03-08-2018, 03:07 AM
I was really hoping to get VT. I think last week’s loss would have been a good rally/focal point and it would have likely ended up a Q1 win (had Duke taken care of business). But... them’s the breaks.

If Duke gets one of (1) ball movement like when Bagley was out, (2) second half Saturday night Duvall, (3) late-February free throw shooting, this shouldn’t be a problem. I will be interested to see how Brey uses Bonzie against the zone.

cptnflash
03-08-2018, 04:10 AM
Love this team. Brey, Bonzie, Farrell, and all the rest. They fully deserve to make the NCAAT even after we beat them tomorrow.

dukelifer
03-08-2018, 06:30 AM
They looked gassed ten minutes into today's game. Must have opened up the NOZ to have enough energy to pull off that epic comeback. Tomorrow they will be dead tired. We can't underestimate them however.

The trick is not to get up big. Teams that take their foot off the pedal can get beat.

moonpie23
03-08-2018, 07:28 AM
every opponent said "duke looks tired" last year in the tourny......it's a trap..


we'd better bring the motivation to this game to beat ND like it was on their home floor........gotta prove we have what it takes......


GO DUKE.....

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-08-2018, 07:37 AM
I misspelled his name... it's Bonzie... don't want to provide him with bulletin board material and have him go Bootsy on us tomorrow.

Bootsi?

OldPhiKap
03-08-2018, 07:41 AM
ND is on a roll, and fighting for a tourney spot. Tired or not, they will bring it. Bonzie and Ferrell are seniors, tired won’t effect them much (they should know how to pace and get the rough it).

This should be the most intense game of the season so far. Every game from here on out ratchets up. Time to see if the kids are ready.

Dr. Rosenrosen
03-08-2018, 07:57 AM
ND is on a roll, and fighting for a tourney spot. Tired or not, they will bring it. Bonzie and Ferrell are seniors, tired won’t effect them much (they should know how to pace and get the rough it).

This should be the most intense game of the season so far. Every game from here on out ratchets up. Time to see if the kids are ready.
Agree. But it will be interesting to see if ND has their legs under their shots. Also, I can’t imagine K is allowing the fellas to be overconfident. I hope to see us playing ferocious defense above all else and allowing the offense to come to us.

Saratoga2
03-08-2018, 07:57 AM
ND plays good MTM defense and can score. Their top 5 are all quality players. Farrell in particular is a guy who can draw a lot of fouls. VT got few calls while ND was getting them often and Farrell was the instigator.

This game will be all about Dukies coming to play from the first minute. they can't afford to make the kind of unforced TO's that have often plagued the team this year. We have the talent to work for a good shot every time and should have the rebound advantage. We also have the depth to keep the pressure on for 40 minutes. If we do draw fouls, lets make a high %tage of our FT's.

Looking forward to a good Duke effort.

budwom
03-08-2018, 08:14 AM
Notre Dame’s legs will be just fine. And they are going to be ready to roll from the tip.

Duke better be ready to match their energy.

yup...over the years I recall many "they'll be too tired" predictions about teams in the ACC tournament which just don't pan out. ND is a well coached team, and the Bonzer (annoying as he is) could
cause real problems inside the zone. As the esteemed (and still ubiquitous) Bucky Waters used to say, "it's going to be a war, gentlemen!"

TruBlu
03-08-2018, 08:22 AM
Notre Dame -- Experienced and talented, but possibly getting tired legs as the game wears on.

Duke -- Young but with superior talent. Could have opening ACC Tournament game jitters.

It will be an interesting game.

GO DUKE!

ndkjr70
03-08-2018, 08:53 AM
For anyone who says "they'll be tired" is ridiculous, you clearly didn't watch the game last night. Bonzie was barely running up and down the court on some missed fast breaks, was slow to rotate on defense, was getting easily out-rebounded too.

The only reason we're facing ND right now is because a) TV Teddy and his Clown Car made an appearance; calling multiple "questionable" (at best) calls including one of the more ridiculous technical fouls I've ever seen. b) VT decided they would see what happens if they go 6 full game-minutes without scoring a bucket. and c) ND got a little hot behind the arc. ANY one of those 3 things didn't happen and we're playing VT today.

I think Bonzie will be sucking wind by halftime, and if Duke stands on the throttle I don't think there should be too much worry.

UrinalCake
03-08-2018, 09:17 AM
The trick is not to get up big. Teams that take their foot off the pedal can get beat.

Yeah, I don’t think any lead will feel safe in this game. We could be up 40 and I’d still be nervous. If we do get a lead there will be a natural tendency to let up and start looking forward to tomorrow. Slowing the ball down and relaxing on defense. Can’t have that. We want to play the bench, but not to the extent that it causes us to lose a big lead.

elvis14
03-08-2018, 09:19 AM
I see a few posts so far saying that we should win because they are tired. I get that but we should win because we are the better team. This is our game to win or lose. We play our game, they are screwed. We don't, they have a chance.

ndkjr70
03-08-2018, 09:25 AM
I see a few posts so far saying that we should win because they are tired. I get that but we should win because we are the better team. This is our game to win or lose. We play our game, they are screwed. We don't, they have a chance.

Of course, but that can be said about almost every game the rest of the season. The fact is, we got a sour draw playing a team that would likely be top-10 and a double-bye if Bonzie hadn't gotten hurt (who just took UVA to the last minute at their house). The only good thing about this matchup is that Bonzie looked visibly tired yesterday, as can be expected from a guy who missed the entire year and has played in back-to-back games (and who's not exactly the thinnest player on the court, to be sure).

Troublemaker
03-08-2018, 09:29 AM
Our last 5 games on offense:

@Clemson: 100.0 offensive efficiency, which is the 13th-best performance against Clemson this season
Louisville: 114.8 offensive efficiency, which is the 5th-best performance against Louisville this season
Syracuse: 93.4 offensive efficiency, which is the 21st-best performance against Syracuse this season
@VaTech: 95.3 offensive efficiency, which is the 24th-best performance against VaTech this season
UNC: 105.1 offensive efficiency, which is the 12th-best performance against UNC this season

So, 4 of the past 5 games, we've been pretty anemic on offense.

That's the thing to watch for this ACC tournament. Can we turn it around offensively? Hopefully the 2nd-half against UNC was the start of the turnaround. Otherwise, we're not much of a contender for anything.

peterjswift
03-08-2018, 09:37 AM
I really don't know how to track this stat (Kedsy? a little help?), but based on watching most games this season, I feel strongly that I have never seen a team rebound their own missed free throws the way this Duke team does and turn them into more foul shots, or another possession. Obviously, rebounding across the board is great, but Carter, Bagley, and the guards seem to frequently catch the other team flat-footed on missed free throws (I would, of course, prefer that Duke misses less FTs). This probably would have been a story-line from the Duke vs. VaTech comeback if the refs hadn't missed Carter being held in the waning seconds of that game - because even that play was on a missed FT that very nearly (should have) become more free throws or another possession for Duke.

The reason I bring this up is that I think this will likely be a physical battle down low, with lots of fouls called. Especially if Notre Dame is a little tired - tired defenders play with their hands and arms more than their legs. Normally I'm with Coach K, in that I don't think multiple games in a row are significantly draining physically for the players. Their conditioning is amazing, and their youth will carry them well. I think the bigger issue leading to fatigue is psychological and schedule oriented.

All that being said, I think Bonzie is incredibly strong, but having such a long gap from playing and only getting a few chances to get back into game-shape, I think he may be a little tired. Adrenaline and excitement will certainly carry him, and if they have a lead late in the game, expect him to be energized by that, but I think he will struggle defensively late in the game and resort to fouling, and because of Carter's ability (per my eye test) to rebound MBIII's misses, I really like Duke's chances in a close game late.

My biggest concern for this game is simply WC and MBIII not getting into foul trouble themselves, and I wouldn't be surprised if K tests the waters with Colson and plays man with Javin in early on in the game against them. I also wouldn't be surprised if Duke stick's to zone pole to pole, but I'm kind of hoping to see some defensive wrinkles in this game - even just as a bit of gamesmanship to affect how teams in the NCAAs or the rest of this tournament prepare for Duke.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-08-2018, 09:41 AM
Our last 5 games on offense:

@Clemson: 100.0 offensive efficiency, which is the 13th-best performance against Clemson this season
Louisville: 114.8 offensive efficiency, which is the 5th-best performance against Louisville this season
Syracuse: 93.4 offensive efficiency, which is the 21st-best performance against Syracuse this season
@VaTech: 95.3 offensive efficiency, which is the 24th-best performance against VaTech this season
UNC: 105.1 offensive efficiency, which is the 12th-best performance against UNC this season

So, 4 of the past 5 games, we've been pretty anemic on offense.

That's the thing to watch for this ACC tournament. Can we turn it around offensively? Hopefully the 2nd-half against UNC was the start of the turnaround. Otherwise, we're not much of a contender for anything.

Who would have guessed three weeks ago that we would be wringing our hands about our offense?

CDu
03-08-2018, 09:42 AM
I see a few posts so far saying that we should win because they are tired. I get that but we should win because we are the better team. This is our game to win or lose. We play our game, they are screwed. We don't, they have a chance.

I don't think the folks that are saying they will be tired are saying that's the only reason we should win. As one of the people saying that they are tired, I believe that the following are reasons we should win:
1. We are better than they are. We are better than we were last year when we beat them in the tournament, and they are worse than they were last year (they lost a lot of their offensive firepower and experience).
2. We have a two-day rest advantage. That's important. On top of that, we also have the edge in that they had to play two grueling games to get here. And they play a really short rotation. I've seen comments about how "well folks were saying we'd be tired last year, but we won 4 in four days." And that is true, but we were only ever facing a 1-day rest deficit in last year's tournament. Big difference. Especially when their best player missed 2 months.
3. They haven't seen much of our zone, nor our 3/4 court press

UrinalCake
03-08-2018, 09:48 AM
One thing is for sure - if we lose, Coach K cannot blame it on our players being “tired” 8-)

CDu
03-08-2018, 09:52 AM
One thing is for sure - if we lose, Coach K cannot blame it on our players being “tired” 8-)

Yeah, the only disadvantage we have is that we will be facing a team that has more familiarity with the rims, having played two games already. But it isn't like Notre Dame is a great shooting team anyway. They are 10th in the conference in 3pt shooting in conference play, 85th overall. Where they score efficiently is inside, #8 in the country in 2pt shooting (#1 in the ACC).

So in that sense, it is strength against strength. We are the #11 team in the country (#1 in the ACC) in defending 2pt shots.

uh_no
03-08-2018, 10:24 AM
Yeah, the only disadvantage we have is that we will be facing a team that has more familiarity with the rims,

I'm skeptical this is meaningful. no shot intentionally hits the rim. It's not like ND can now tailor their "misses" such that they'll hit the rim in a way that is more likely to go in.

That said, there is some plausibility to the argument that how the basket LOOKS relative to the backdrop might affect a shooter, but these guys play in so many arenas, I have doubts they aren't able to become comfortable pretty quickly during warmups. I think the whole "sightlines" thing is something commentators talk about because it's what they think they're "supposed" to say about big arenas. If it were really an issue, we'd see terrible shooting every time teams play in big arenas....but we don't.

Anyway, it seems like people are looking for reasons to not be overconfident...not sure why we have to reach so far, given that our offense has been putrid for 105 of its last 120 minutes of play. That's reason enough.

CDu
03-08-2018, 10:27 AM
I'm skeptical this is meaningful. no shot intentionally hits the rim. It's not like ND can now tailor their "misses" such that they'll hit the rim in a way that is more likely to go in.

That said, there is some plausibility to the argument that how the basket LOOKS relative to the backdrop might affect a shooter, but these guys play in so many arenas, I have doubts they aren't able to become comfortable pretty quickly during warmups. I think the whole "sightlines" thing is something commentators talk about because it's what they think they're "supposed" to say about big arenas. If it were really an issue, we'd see terrible shooting every time teams play in big arenas...but we don't.

Anyway, it seems like people are looking for reasons to not be overconfident...not sure why we have to reach so far, given that our offense has been putrid for 105 of its last 120 minutes of play. That's reason enough.

Yes, the term "familiar with the rims" is shorthand for exactly your second paragraph.

Kedsy
03-08-2018, 10:28 AM
I really don't know how to track this stat (Kedsy? a little help?), but based on watching most games this season, I feel strongly that I have never seen a team rebound their own missed free throws the way this Duke team does and turn them into more foul shots, or another possession.

Yeah, I don't know anywhere this stat would be kept. Only way I can think of to track rebounds of missed free throws would be from the play-by-play, but I don't have the energy for that. And even if I (or someone else) was willing to track this for the current season, the stat would be close to useless without comparison data from other seasons.

Sorry.

kmspeaks
03-08-2018, 10:30 AM
I'm skeptical this is meaningful. no shot intentionally hits the rim. It's not like ND can now tailor their "misses" such that they'll hit the rim in a way that is more likely to go in.

That said, there is some plausibility to the argument that how the basket LOOKS relative to the backdrop might affect a shooter, but these guys play in so many arenas, I have doubts they aren't able to become comfortable pretty quickly during warmups. I think the whole "sightlines" thing is something commentators talk about because it's what they think they're "supposed" to say about big arenas. If it were really an issue, we'd see terrible shooting every time teams play in big arenas...but we don't.

Anyway, it seems like people are looking for reasons to not be overconfident...not sure why we have to reach so far, given that our offense has been putrid for 105 of its last 120 minutes of play. That's reason enough.

I always thought the sightlines thing was more for the games played in football stadiums anyway. The Barclays Center was built for basketball and, I'm guessing without looking it up, probably has a similar number of seats/tiers as many ACC arenas not named Cameron Indoor and so it's not a drastic change from what guys are used to.

UrinalCake
03-08-2018, 10:34 AM
Does Duke get any practice time in the actual arena? DukeMBB posted some video of the team practicing in another building, but do they get any time to familiarize themselves with the court/rims/background other than the 20 minutes before the game starts?

Clocktower
03-08-2018, 10:42 AM
To me one of the keys to the game for us is how well we outplay them when Colson is on the bench. I think Brey will try to steal minutes resting him, especially in the second half, and we need to really shut them down and score the ball when he's out.

BTW I agree about how bad that tech call was in their game last night. How does Ferrell get away with snatching the ball out of Clark's hands like that and then convincing the ref that he was forcibly pushed into the second row? Hope Trevon among others are ready to deal with his so-called veteran savvy.

Reddevil
03-08-2018, 10:47 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if K tests the waters with Colson and plays man with Javin in early on in the game against them. I also wouldn't be surprised if Duke stick's to zone pole to pole, but I'm kind of hoping to see some defensive wrinkles in this game - even just as a bit of gamesmanship to affect how teams in the NCAAs or the rest of this tournament prepare for Duke.

Maybe Jimmy V left K with his junk zone notes. A box and one, or triangle and two thrown in would be marvelous.

nmduke2001
03-08-2018, 10:48 AM
I hope we win and that no one gets hurt. I think Bonzi is a very dirty player. People always seem to "accidentally" get injured by him.

dukelifer
03-08-2018, 10:57 AM
I would not be surprised by any outcome here but Duke will take Notre Dame more seriously than they would have if they believed it was the same team they faced in January. Duke is a different team as well- so it will be interesting to watch. This is a good matchup for Duke as Notre Dame will not have a great answer for Duke's athleticism particularly in the second half, and I suspect Bagley will be better than he was in the first matchup.

subzero02
03-08-2018, 11:03 AM
Bootsi?

It's spelled with a "y"...Bootsy Thornton... he retired from pro ball in 2014.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-08-2018, 11:04 AM
I hope we win and that no one gets hurt. I think Bonzi is a very dirty player. People always seem to "accidentally" get injured by him.

Wow, I don't feel that way in the slightest. He plays hard and he plays physically for sure. You could say the same thing about many of our players over the years.

I have a lot of respect for ND and for Bonzi. Seems like a good guy. I anticipate he will draw Wendell on defense, and that could make for a fun match up.

peterjswift
03-08-2018, 11:06 AM
Yeah, I don't know anywhere this stat would be kept. Only way I can think of to track rebounds of missed free throws would be from the play-by-play, but I don't have the energy for that. And even if I (or someone else) was willing to track this for the current season, the stat would be close to useless without comparison data from other seasons.

Sorry.

Surely we have some computer scientists on the board who could download the data from google/NCAA's machine-learning contest data set and figure this out for us, right?

I'm confident of my eyes though. I think Duke is rebounding missed free throws at a dramatically higher clip than ever before. I'd guess that it is close to 15% of them. There was a game earlier in the season that had at least 8 points (that I tracked) scored off of missed free throws by Duke.

peterjswift
03-08-2018, 11:10 AM
Maybe Jimmy V left K with his junk zone notes. A box and one, or triangle and two thrown in would be marvelous.

Yes please!

Though what I would like to see most of all would just be some really good man-to-man. Even if only for a few possessions while Colson is in. The second time Duke gets burned playing man, switch to zone - just like on the playground.

ndkjr70
03-08-2018, 11:11 AM
Does Duke get any practice time in the actual arena? DukeMBB posted some video of the team practicing in another building, but do they get any time to familiarize themselves with the court/rims/background other than the 20 minutes before the game starts?

I'm guessing Duke was allotted a shoot-around time in the stadium this morning.

Duke76
03-08-2018, 11:20 AM
Bootsi?

regardless of his name....we better play a 2-1-2 zone tonight to take away the free throw area off penetration.....never understood why we didn't play that against Goose Givens in 78 when he torched us for 100 points it seemed like and cost us our first Natty....still remember that game and the cover of SI

subzero02
03-08-2018, 11:28 AM
We are favored by 8.5 points.

UrinalCake
03-08-2018, 11:32 AM
I always thought the sightlines thing was more for the games played in football stadiums anyway. The Barclays Center was built for basketball and, I'm guessing without looking it up, probably has a similar number of seats/tiers as many ACC arenas not named Cameron Indoor and so it's not a drastic change from what guys are used to.

That stadium in Houston where we played in the 2015 tournament was the worst. It looked like Rainbow Road from Mario Cart. Every time I see highlights of Matt Jones hitting those threes, I wonder if we were playing in outer space.

SavDukeGrad
03-08-2018, 11:35 AM
I hope we win and that no one gets hurt. I think Bonzi is a very dirty player. People always seem to "accidentally" get injured by him.

Completely agree about Bonzie. I actually don't know if he is a dirty player or not. But I have seen him play Duke in person three times, and he is one of the most obnoxious players I have ever seen! I certainly hope our freshmen don't let him or Farrell get in their heads.

Lar77
03-08-2018, 11:35 AM
Some interesting commentary so far. My 2 cents:

I have been impressed with Mike Brey ever since a Big East game at Louisville that went into multiple overtimes. Brey looked like he was having the best time. He knows how to keep his guys loose and confident. I can never count ND out of a game.

Bonzie is back. I'm sure he didn't call "bank" on that shot last night, but he always seems to pull one of those out of his bag. I expect him to be tired, but in 3 years against us, he seems to exceed expectations (even when he was just scoring 8 against us as a freshman)

Duke should win. We just need to keep getting better and this is the kind of game that will help. We cannot look ahead and cannot let up. Play the defense that we have developed so well (ND will be a good test). I expect our offense to continue to get back to where it should be.

Our guys are learning to play as a team (not just a bunch of really good players) and to have fun doing it

FerryFor50
03-08-2018, 11:37 AM
I say the strategy would be to attack Colson on defense constantly. Wear him out. Get him in foul trouble. Frustrate him. He can't handle Carter or Bagley one on one, so go at him.

The other guy I'd worry about is Farrell, but I think the zone will help negate the value he brings.

CDu
03-08-2018, 11:42 AM
Wow, I don't feel that way in the slightest. He plays hard and he plays physically for sure. You could say the same thing about many of our players over the years.

I have a lot of respect for ND and for Bonzi. Seems like a good guy. I anticipate he will draw Wendell on defense, and that could make for a fun match up.

While I would expect Colson to guard Carter sometimes, my guess is that he will actually guard Bagley more often. I can't imagine that Notre Dame wants to have Geben try to stay with Bagley.

ncexnyc
03-08-2018, 12:00 PM
I've watched about 85% of the games so far and hopefully the officiating today is consistent with what I've seen the past two days in the tournament. I haven't seen a lot of ticky tacky fouls being called and they've let a lot of bumping on drivers go uncalled.

Of course I might be singing a different tune once it takes place against our team.

thedukelamere
03-08-2018, 12:01 PM
I fully expect us to win, but I'm also excited for this game to be a perfect warm-up for the NCAAT... Yes, I want a ACC banner this year as much as everyone else, but if somehow Bonzie and Matt are able to cash in their senior "my career can't end like this" chips and pull out a W? Maybe that punches our guys in the mouth early with less at stake and it helps us fight off a hot, experienced team in the coming weeks and we bring home #6. At the very least, they are gonna see a desperate team and are going to need to match the energy.

kAzE
03-08-2018, 12:18 PM
I hope we win and that no one gets hurt. I think Bonzi is a very dirty player. People always seem to "accidentally" get injured by him.

Hmm . . . I personally would not characterize Bonzie Colson as a "dirty" player. He's very competitive and likes to talk, but I can't remember any specific instances of dirty play.

Out of curiosity, when has he accidentally harmed another player?

I like the guy, I really wish we had a guy like him over the past few years. Reminds me a lot of Draymond Green. He's tough, competitive, emotional, and really makes his teammates better because of the way he carries himself and how he plays. And as a 6'5" big man, he's got a ridiculous amount of heart. I can't hate on that guy. I wish he was on my team.

ChillinDuke
03-08-2018, 12:22 PM
Don't you just love the exercise of finding a storyline to fit the outcomes? That seems to be many of the posts I'm reading in this thread.

Anyway, I think this game hinges on two things:

(1) Can we get the offense going with enough juice to last us the better part of 40 minutes?
(2) Can ND avoid fatigue from (a) Bonzie's layoff, (b) 3 games in 3 days, and (c) a furious comeback that had to exhaust them physically and (perhaps more importantly) emotionally?

Given our defensive resurgence, our talent level, and ND's potential fatigue, I'd expect to win this game. And I want to win this game.

There's no "well if we have to lose, this is a good place to lose." Get that stuff out of here. It's Tourney Time, folks! All season, we walk that long, winding road, and this is where it takes us.

LET'S GOOOOOOO!

- Chillin

proelitedota
03-08-2018, 12:46 PM
Don't you just love the exercise of finding a storyline to fit the outcomes? That seems to be many of the posts I'm reading in this thread.

Anyway, I think this game hinges on two things:

(1) Can we get the offense going with enough juice to last us the better part of 40 minutes?
(2) Can ND avoid fatigue from (a) Bonzie's layoff, (b) 3 games in 3 days, and (c) a furious comeback that had to exhaust them physically and (perhaps more importantly) emotionally?

Given our defensive resurgence, our talent level, and ND's potential fatigue, I'd expect to win this game. And I want to win this game.

There's no "well if we have to lose, this is a good place to lose." Get that stuff out of here. It's Tourney Time, folks! All season, we walk that long, winding road, and this is where it takes us.

LET'S GOOOOOOO!

- Chillin

Given a choice between losing and taking an injury to any of our players I take losing. We need to play a style that minimizes risk of injury first and foremost. Winning is secondary to staying healthy.

kAzE
03-08-2018, 12:54 PM
Given a choice between losing and taking an injury to any of our players I take losing. We need to play a style that minimizes risk of injury first and foremost. Winning is secondary to staying healthy.

I strongly disagree here. There's no chance anyone on the team or the coaching staff has this mindset. Besides, what kind of play style is less susceptible to injury? Not playing as hard as possible? That's not how it works. You have go out there and give it 110% every game. Playing to not get injured is often how you get injured, and it's just not the correct approach to postseason basketball . . .

BandAlum83
03-08-2018, 12:56 PM
Given a choice between losing and taking an injury to any of our players I take losing. We need to play a style that minimizes risk of injury first and foremost. Winning is secondary to staying healthy.

Play in a style that minimizes risk of injury? What does that even mean?

Don't dive on the floor for loose balls? Don't go for alley oops because you might get undercut? Don't play your starters too many minutes? Don't drive be the lane?


Sorry, respectfully, that's garbage.

K coaches for March and championships? Well it's March and we are playing for a championship!

Besides, start playing tentatively or scared or different from your normal game and that's when injuries really happen.

Troublemaker
03-08-2018, 01:08 PM
regardless of his name...we better play a 2-1-2 zone tonight to take away the free throw area off penetration...never understood why we didn't play that against Goose Givens in 78 when he torched us for 100 points it seemed like and cost us our first Natty...still remember that game and the cover of SI

Let's have Colson prove that he can hurt us with the FT line jumper first before we change up what is great basic strategy. In modern basketball, with a 3-pt line, it's a good thing to take away most threes (we have a weakness with the corner 3, unfortunately) and layups at the rim and force opponents into 2-pt jumpers.


I fully expect us to win, but I'm also excited for this game to be a perfect warm-up for the NCAAT... Yes, I want a ACC banner this year as much as everyone else, but if somehow Bonzie and Matt are able to cash in their senior "my career can't end like this" chips and pull out a W? Maybe that punches our guys in the mouth early with less at stake and it helps us fight off a hot, experienced team in the coming weeks and we bring home #6. At the very least, they are gonna see a desperate team and are going to need to match the energy.

I disagree. This would be a horrible loss and I would lose any confidence about this team going forward. Notre Dame hasn't even played well on offense since Colson's return, and Duke's zone has been a top-3 defense in the country. In most scenarios, the way we can lose is if a mediocre Notre Dame defense shuts down our anemic offense even worse than our zone shuts down their offense. And if, for whatever reason, Duke hasn't figured out how to score better by now (hello... spacing), we won't figure it out next week either.

nmduke2001
03-08-2018, 01:17 PM
Hmm . . . I personally would not characterize Bonzie Colson as a "dirty" player. He's very competitive and likes to talk, but I can't remember any specific instances of dirty play.

Out of curiosity, when has he accidentally harmed another player?

I like the guy, I really wish we had a guy like him over the past few years. Reminds me a lot of Draymond Green. He's tough, competitive, emotional, and really makes his teammates better because of the way he carries himself and how he plays. And as a 6'5" big man, he's got a ridiculous amount of heart. I can't hate on that guy. I wish he was on my team.

Watch him away from the ball. As he boxes out, he elbows people. When someone gets to rim, he'll give them a little nudge to take out their legs. He puts his hip into guys while screening. I think his grit and effort sometime hide a lot of his dirty plays.

I also believe that Draymond is really dirty (just ask all the dudes that he's hit in...ummmmm....sensitive areas)

kAzE
03-08-2018, 01:19 PM
Watch him away from the ball. As he boxes out, he elbows people. When someone gets to rim, he'll give them a little nudge to take out their legs. He puts his hip into guys while screening. I think his grit and effort sometime hide a lot of his dirty plays.

Elbowing people while boxing out is dirty, but the other two things you mentioned are just fouls. It's on the officials to call that. If he's just amazing at doing it without getting called for fouling, that's just good basketball by him. It's the responsibility of the officials, and if they aren't calling it, the opposing coach needs to get on the officials for it.

These are not Bonzie specific things though. Almost everyone tries to do stuff like this. I was wondering more about specific instances where he injured another player.

And yes, Draymond does a lot of things that are questionable. He was obviously punished harshly (and justly) for the LeBron altercation. But the point is you still want Draymond Green on your team. The Warriors are a soft team without him. I think the same goes for Notre Dame and Bonzie.

Acymetric
03-08-2018, 01:30 PM
I also believe that Draymond is really dirty (just ask all the dudes that he's hit in...ummmmm...sensitive areas)

Obviously he modeled his game after Chris Paul.

heartofgold
03-08-2018, 01:33 PM
Since we've gone to a zone all the time defense, our defensive rating and outcomes have been terrific. In watching these games though, I get the feeling that there is a lot of luck involved here. In other words, we haven't faced a hot 3 point shooting team yet. One might say our defense is the cause of that, but it's clear our zone is still leaving wide open 3's, especially on the corners. Carolina especially missed many wide open 3s against us in the second half. The narrative on our defensive may change very quickly if we face a team that ends up hitting 40-50% from three because of the number of open looks they get. UNC shot 8 of 31 from 3 against us for 26%. If they shoot 12 of 31, or 39%, they win the game...

duke4ever19
03-08-2018, 01:50 PM
Since we've gone to a zone all the time defense, our defensive rating and outcomes have been terrific. In watching these games though, I get the feeling that there is a lot of luck involved here. In other words, we haven't faced a hot 3 point shooting team yet. One might say our defense is the cause of that, but it's clear our zone is still leaving wide open 3's, especially on the corners. Carolina especially missed many wide open 3s against us in the second half. The narrative on our defensive may change very quickly if we face a team that ends up hitting 40-50% from three because of the number of open looks they get. UNC shot 8 of 31 from 3 against us for 26%. If they shoot 12 of 31, or 39%, they win the game...

Maybe, but we also played turd of a first half, missing a lot of close shots in the paint ourselves.

CDu
03-08-2018, 01:50 PM
Yeah, I'd refer to Colson as chippy rather than dirty. He does a lot of chippy stuff. He definitely has some obnoxious characteristics, but he definitely gets more out of less physical opportunities than he should.

dukelifer
03-08-2018, 01:51 PM
Maybe, but we also played turd of a first half, missing a lot of close shots in the paint ourselves.

And a ton of freebies.

uh_no
03-08-2018, 01:56 PM
Since we've gone to a zone all the time defense, our defensive rating and outcomes have been terrific. In watching these games though, I get the feeling that there is a lot of luck involved here. In other words, we haven't faced a hot 3 point shooting team yet. One might say our defense is the cause of that, but it's clear our zone is still leaving wide open 3's, especially on the corners. Carolina especially missed many wide open 3s against us in the second half. The narrative on our defensive may change very quickly if we face a team that ends up hitting 40-50% from three because of the number of open looks they get. UNC shot 8 of 31 from 3 against us for 26%. If they shoot 12 of 31, or 39%, they win the game...

Yes, this is true...and they hit those at a decent clip. Johnson and williams shot 35% from three....not bad...

But how many open looks did joel berry get? his 0-7 is not accidental.

We're way past the point of duke's defensive improvement being "luck." Even before we went all zone, the defense was playing at a high level. We're looking at 14 of our last 16 games holding the opponents under 1 PPP. Here are the totals for previous duke teams in ACC play:

2018: 14
2017: 6
2016: 4
2015: 7
2014: 7
2013: 10
2012: 7
2011: 10
2010: 11

What's even MORE impressive is the consistency with which they do it. Here are the longest streaks of holding opponents in the ACC under 1 PPP

2018: 7.....twice
2017: 2
2016: 2
2015: 2
2014: 2
2013: 3
2012: 2
2011: 3
2010: 3

So not only is this year's streak longer by a full 4 games over any season in the past 9 years...but they have put up a streak that long TWICE already this year.

I can say with pretty high confidence at this point that duke's defense right now is not just "a lot of luck"

Kedsy
03-08-2018, 02:04 PM
In most scenarios, the way we can lose is if a mediocre Notre Dame defense shuts down our anemic offense even worse than our zone shuts down their offense. And if, for whatever reason, Duke hasn't figured out how to score better by now (hello... spacing), we won't figure it out next week either.

Honest question: do you really think we've somehow forgotten how to play offense? Or is it mostly just Grayson and Gary have shot poorly the past few games?

It's really only been the past three games that our offense looked mediocre (really just 2.5 games, since we looked good the second half against UNC), and in those three games only two issues stand out: (a) Gary and Grayson combined to shoot 11 for 51 from threeland (21.6%); and (b) we've had too many turnovers.

The turnovers are concerning, but even with the TOs if Gary and Grayson had shot around their average from three in the three games, our adjusted OE would have been about 118 or so. Now that would only be 17th in the country (as opposed to 2nd like we are for the season), but if that's all it was (in a three game sample) we wouldn't be fretting over it, right? And, interestingly enough, in the second half against UNC we still had lots of turnovers (9 in ~36 possessions for a turnover pct of 25%) but Grayson and Gary combined for 45.5% and our adjusted OE was around 143.

Obviously we did a lot of other things right offensively in the second half (if G & G had shot 18% on second-half threes instead of 46% our adj OE would still have been about 118), but it's also possible that some of those other good things were available because UNC was scrambling to keep Gary and Grayson from shooting, isn't it?

Anyway, it's just a thought. Personally I don't think our offense is "anemic."

David Bunkley
03-08-2018, 02:06 PM
Tonight is going to be a tough one, especially if Duke let's Notre Dame hang around and/or play with a lead - either of which will go along way towards supplementing their energy stores.

For obvious reasons, I think Notre Dame is the hungriest team in the ACC and I also think Mike Brey is one of the top 4 or 5 coaches in the ACC; that'll be a tough combo to overcome.

But...Duke has Marvin Bagley III and Wendell Carter Jr., both of whom run the floor well and will force Bonzie to have to defend and box out the entire game, unlike Blackshear last night for Va Tech. And if they get in foul trouble then DeLaurier and Bolden haven't exactly been slouches recently. So no matter who is in the game (other than maybe DeLaurier on the perimeter), Bonzie will have to play them honestly or pay the price.

And I think that is the key. Bonzie is the one of the few players that can get in the middle of the Duke zone and operate at a high level. Rather than changing the defense much, I'd like to see the bigs make Bonzie use so much energy on defense and rebounding/boxing out that he is less effective offensively than he might otherwise be.

There are a lot of other players that will be key, but how Duke uses their bigs to attack Colson is the matchup I am most interested in.

Can't wait for tonight!

#GODUKE

proelitedota
03-08-2018, 02:08 PM
Play in a style that minimizes risk of injury? What does that even mean?

Don't dive on the floor for loose balls? Don't go for alley oops because you might get undercut? Don't play your starters too many minutes? Don't drive be the lane?


Sorry, respectfully, that's garbage.

K coaches for March and championships? Well it's March and we are playing for a championship!

Besides, start playing tentatively or scared or different from your normal game and that's when injuries really happen.

Resting the starters and playing heavy bench minutes sounds like a win-win to me.
If one of our backcourt players gets injured in today's game the season is over. I would not risk a season ending injury for what is essentially an outside chance to play for a 1 seed.

uh_no
03-08-2018, 02:13 PM
Honest question: do you really think we've somehow forgotten how to play offense? Or is it mostly just Grayson and Gary have shot poorly the past few games?

It's really only been the past three games that our offense looked mediocre (really just 2.5 games, since we looked good the second half against UNC), and in those three games only two issues stand out: (a) Gary and Grayson combined to shoot 11 for 51 from threeland (21.6%); and (b) we've had too many turnovers.

The turnovers are concerning, but even with the TOs if Gary and Grayson had shot around their average from three in the three games, our adjusted OE would have been about 118 or so. Now that would only be 17th in the country (as opposed to 2nd like we are for the season), but if that's all it was (in a three game sample) we wouldn't be fretting over it, right? And, interestingly enough, in the second half against UNC we still had lots of turnovers (9 in ~36 possessions for a turnover pct of 25%) but Grayson and Gary combined for 45.5% and our adjusted OE was around 143.

Obviously we did a lot of other things right offensively in the second half (if G & G had shot 18% on second-half threes instead of 46% our adj OE would still have been about 118), but it's also possible that some of those other good things were available because UNC was scrambling to keep Gary and Grayson from shooting, isn't it?

Anyway, it's just a thought. Personally I don't think our offense is "anemic."

certainly some of it....but when you go 60 seconds against UNC without getting up a real shot, something's wrong. Even if we shoot 40% against VT, and get an extra 9 points, that's still not a great number against a mediocre defense. (adjusts to about 116, which is not HORRIBLE, but not the 124-125 we would expect)

dukelifer
03-08-2018, 02:16 PM
Honest question: do you really think we've somehow forgotten how to play offense? Or is it mostly just Grayson and Gary have shot poorly the past few games?

It's really only been the past three games that our offense looked mediocre (really just 2.5 games, since we looked good the second half against UNC), and in those three games only two issues stand out: (a) Gary and Grayson combined to shoot 11 for 51 from threeland (21.6%); and (b) we've had too many turnovers.

The turnovers are concerning, but even with the TOs if Gary and Grayson had shot around their average from three in the three games, our adjusted OE would have been about 118 or so. Now that would only be 17th in the country (as opposed to 2nd like we are for the season), but if that's all it was (in a three game sample) we wouldn't be fretting over it, right? And, interestingly enough, in the second half against UNC we still had lots of turnovers (9 in ~36 possessions for a turnover pct of 25%) but Grayson and Gary combined for 45.5% and our adjusted OE was around 143.

Obviously we did a lot of other things right offensively in the second half (if G & G had shot 18% on second-half threes instead of 46% our adj OE would still have been about 118), but it's also possible that some of those other good things were available because UNC was scrambling to keep Gary and Grayson from shooting, isn't it?

Anyway, it's just a thought. Personally I don't think our offense is "anemic."

The poor shooting from deep has been a big part but folks have also figured out Bagley. As a result some parts of the offense is not working as well as earlier in the year. Also, I suspect the number of possessions have gone down as a result of the zone D. But that all said, in the last three games- Duke has held near double digit leads at some point in the game. Duke just needs to limit turnovers and get some easy buckets from the big guys by using dribble drive penetration and if they get a lead- stay focused and hit FT as they will get fouled A LOT down the stretch of these games.

Lar77
03-08-2018, 02:17 PM
Since we've gone to a zone all the time defense, our defensive rating and outcomes have been terrific. In watching these games though, I get the feeling that there is a lot of luck involved here. In other words, we haven't faced a hot 3 point shooting team yet. One might say our defense is the cause of that, but it's clear our zone is still leaving wide open 3's, especially on the corners. Carolina especially missed many wide open 3s against us in the second half. The narrative on our defensive may change very quickly if we face a team that ends up hitting 40-50% from three because of the number of open looks they get. UNC shot 8 of 31 from 3 against us for 26%. If they shoot 12 of 31, or 39%, they win the game...

Understand how you feel that way, but I'll venture that our 3 point defense has improved over the past several weeks, especially in the corners. So has our defensive rebounding. Yes, Carolina missed some open 3s; we were 1-10 in the first half.

Let's face it, if a team is shooting 40-50% from 3, it's a tough game anyway. My guess is that we would adjust if there was a flaw allowing that efficiency.

Kedsy
03-08-2018, 02:18 PM
In watching these games though, I get the feeling that there is a lot of luck involved here. In other words, we haven't faced a hot 3 point shooting team yet.


I can say with pretty high confidence at this point that duke's defense right now is not just "a lot of luck"

Adding to uh_no's analysis, here are our opponents' three-point shooting percentage since we went primarily zone:

GaTech: 25.9% (season avg: 31.8%)
VaTech (1): 35.0% (season avg: 38.5%)
Clemson: 25.0% (season avg: 37.0%)
Louisville: 25.0% (season avg: 36.9%)
Syracuse: 24.0% (season avg: 32.1%)
VaTech (2): 22.7% (season avg: 38.5%)
UNC (2): 25.8% (season avg: 37.0%)

With this kind of consistency, it's hard to credit our success to "we just haven't faced a hot shooting team yet."

Put another way, sure, some teams may shoot better than these teams have, but that variance cuts both ways. It's just as likely that Duke shoots better too (we shot 11% from three against Syracuse, 29% from three at VaTech, and 10% from three in the first half against UNC).

jv001
03-08-2018, 02:23 PM
Yeah, I'd refer to Colson as chippy rather than dirty. He does a lot of chippy stuff. He definitely has some obnoxious characteristics, but he definitely gets more out of less physical opportunities than he should.

This ^ is the reason I don't like Colson. however if they hadn't beat us in the past few years, I would probably shrug it off. GoDuke!

DukeDevil
03-08-2018, 02:37 PM
Does anyone have a link for streaming the game that would work in Europe? On a vacation and could use some help!

SavDukeGrad
03-08-2018, 02:37 PM
This ^ is the reason I don't like Colson. however if they hadn't beat us in the past few years, I would probably shrug it off. GoDuke!

Completely agree, especially with the chippy and obnoxious part. And Draymond Green is a great comp imo.

On another note, I'm so glad Dan Dakich is announcing the afternoon session again today, so that we don't have to listen to him tonight. Wonder if we'll have LaPhonso Ellis again tonight, or they'll bring in the A team?

jv001
03-08-2018, 02:39 PM
Completely agree, especially with the chippy and obnoxious part. And Draymond Green is a great comp imo.

On another note, I'm so glad Dan Dakich is announcing the afternoon session again today, so that we don't have to listen to him tonight. Wonder if we'll have LaPhonso Ellis again tonight, or they'll bring in the A team?

I will be listening to the CBS feed with G-Man and Brando. GoDuke!

BandAlum83
03-08-2018, 02:48 PM
Resting the starters and playing heavy bench minutes sounds like a win-win to me.
If one of our backcourt players gets injured in today's game the season is over. I would not risk a season ending injury for what is essentially an outside chance to play for a 1 seed.

Rest our starters at the risk of losing? Why not just take a forfeit? And then while we are at it, only play the third string in the opening game of the NCAAT? We wouldn't want to risk injury before we get to the final four!

Am I the only one who thinks The ACC championship means something?

heartofgold
03-08-2018, 02:48 PM
Yes, this is true...and they hit those at a decent clip. Johnson and williams shot 35% from three...not bad...

But how many open looks did joel berry get? his 0-7 is not accidental.

We're way past the point of duke's defensive improvement being "luck." Even before we went all zone, the defense was playing at a high level. We're looking at 14 of our last 16 games holding the opponents under 1 PPP. Here are the totals for previous duke teams in ACC play:

2018: 14
2017: 6
2016: 4
2015: 7
2014: 7
2013: 10
2012: 7
2011: 10
2010: 11

What's even MORE impressive is the consistency with which they do it. Here are the longest streaks of holding opponents in the ACC under 1 PPP

2018: 7....twice
2017: 2
2016: 2
2015: 2
2014: 2
2013: 3
2012: 2
2011: 3
2010: 3

So not only is this year's streak longer by a full 4 games over any season in the past 9 years...but they have put up a streak that long TWICE already this year.

I can say with pretty high confidence at this point that duke's defense right now is not just "a lot of luck"

These are staggering stats - it suggests this is by far the best defense we've had since 2010. Stats don't lie of course but they can deceive. The issue I'm grappling with is that we are still allowing a lot of open 3's. In this recent stretch, we haven't faced anyone that has exploited it and actually made a decent percentage. Every early exit we've had in the last few years from the tournament has been at the hands of a hot 3 pt shooting team. I don't know if we've proven yet that we defend the 3 pointer well. I wish there was a statistic that could show how many open threes we allow and opponents' percentage on open and contested shots.

kAzE
03-08-2018, 02:59 PM
Completely agree, especially with the chippy and obnoxious part. And Draymond Green is a great comp imo.

On another note, I'm so glad Dan Dakich is announcing the afternoon session again today, so that we don't have to listen to him tonight. Wonder if we'll have LaPhonso Ellis again tonight, or they'll bring in the A team?

I mean . . . regardless of the veracity of Dakich's comments about Bagley, apparently it lit a fire under him. Maybe Bagley needed to hear that.

I welcome more brutal Dakich commentary. We can take that hate and use it to fuel a championship run. Running from criticism is pointless.

BandAlum83
03-08-2018, 03:00 PM
These are staggering stats - it suggests this is by far the best defense we've had since 2010. Stats don't lie of course but they can deceive. The issue I'm grappling with is that we are still allowing a lot of open 3's. In this recent stretch, we haven't faced anyone that has exploited it and actually made a decent percentage. Every early exit we've had in the last few years from the tournament has been at the hands of a hot 3 pt shooting team. I don't know if we've proven yet that we defend the 3 pointer well. I wish there was a statistic that could show how many open threes we allow and opponents' percentage on open and contested shots.

The 3 PT concern is answered very effectively by Kedsy upthread.

ndkjr70
03-08-2018, 03:08 PM
I mean . . . regardless of the veracity of Dakich's comments about Bagley, apparently it lit a fire under him. Maybe Bagley needed to hear that.

I welcome more brutal Dakich commentary. We can take that hate and use it to fuel a championship run. Running from criticism is pointless.

Based on what? Badgley was coming back from injury and looked a little rusty. He had a dominating stretch against UNC that we've seen multiple times already this season.

Dan Jock-itch made ridiculously insulting comments and there should be nothing positive about it. I hope he chokes on his own spit.

FerryFor50
03-08-2018, 03:08 PM
Adding to uh_no's analysis, here are our opponents' three-point shooting percentage since we went primarily zone:

GaTech: 25.9% (season avg: 31.8%)
VaTech (1): 35.0% (season avg: 38.5%)
Clemson: 25.0% (season avg: 37.0%)
Louisville: 25.0% (season avg: 36.9%)
Syracuse: 24.0% (season avg: 32.1%)
VaTech (2): 22.7% (season avg: 38.5%)
UNC (2): 25.8% (season avg: 37.0%)

With this kind of consistency, it's hard to credit our success to "we just haven't faced a hot shooting team yet."

Put another way, sure, some teams may shoot better than these teams have, but that variance cuts both ways. It's just as likely that Duke shoots better too (we shot 11% from three against Syracuse, 29% from three at VaTech, and 10% from three in the first half against UNC).

Duke doesn't just play a zone; they play a very adaptable zone. They account for teams getting hot from 3 and start extending it out into a sort of modified 3-2. If teams start to attack the middle, they pack it in a bit and make teams shoot from deep. A lot of threes other teams take against this zone are either contested or very deep. The only 3s that have been wide open have been the corner 3 when a guy misses an assignment (*cough* Bagley *cough*), off an offensive board or in transition.

That's why the trend hasn't been luck. It's been smart defense.

DrChainsaw
03-08-2018, 03:32 PM
Does anyone have a link for streaming the game that would work in Europe? On a vacation and could use some help!

If you have access to a US-based VPN through work/school/etc, you should be able to stream via ESPN (at least that works for me). The only downside is that some VPNs are pretty slow....

Troublemaker
03-08-2018, 03:35 PM
Honest question: do you really think we've somehow forgotten how to play offense? Or is it mostly just Grayson and Gary have shot poorly the past few games?

It's really only been the past three games that our offense looked mediocre (really just 2.5 games, since we looked good the second half against UNC), and in those three games only two issues stand out: (a) Gary and Grayson combined to shoot 11 for 51 from threeland (21.6%); and (b) we've had too many turnovers.

The turnovers are concerning, but even with the TOs if Gary and Grayson had shot around their average from three in the three games, our adjusted OE would have been about 118 or so. Now that would only be 17th in the country (as opposed to 2nd like we are for the season), but if that's all it was (in a three game sample) we wouldn't be fretting over it, right? And, interestingly enough, in the second half against UNC we still had lots of turnovers (9 in ~36 possessions for a turnover pct of 25%) but Grayson and Gary combined for 45.5% and our adjusted OE was around 143.

Obviously we did a lot of other things right offensively in the second half (if G & G had shot 18% on second-half threes instead of 46% our adj OE would still have been about 118), but it's also possible that some of those other good things were available because UNC was scrambling to keep Gary and Grayson from shooting, isn't it?

Anyway, it's just a thought. Personally I don't think our offense is "anemic."

Honestly, I'm being a little bit cheeky with my adjectives, yes. I am reveling in how backwards our situation has gotten compared to what we're usually concerned about, but there IS legitimate concern, too, on my part.

I wouldn't describe it as we've "forgotten how to play offense," though. More that perhaps we've been figured out a bit, especially if Grayson resumes getting the bulk of PG duties, which I don't expect. The 5-game stretch I mentioned upthread exactly coincides with him becoming the primary PG, and while the move may have helped HIM personally get going a bit scoring-wise, the cost of playing Javin and Trevon as wings is that it gums up other parts of the offense. In any case, I expect that Trevon will be back playing as the primary PG going forward, and I hope that his 2nd-half performance against UNC gave him confidence and kick-started a 10-game stretch of solid PG play from him.

Getting back to your question. I'm about 60-70% confident that Duke will resume playing offense at a high-level, and I'll adjust that up or down depending on what I see in the ACC tourney. It sounds like your starting number is higher than mine based on thinking that it's mostly just been a bad shooting stretch.

uh_no
03-08-2018, 03:41 PM
These are staggering stats - it suggests this is by far the best defense we've had since 2010. Stats don't lie of course but they can deceive. The issue I'm grappling with is that we are still allowing a lot of open 3's. In this recent stretch, we haven't faced anyone that has exploited it and actually made a decent percentage. Every early exit we've had in the last few years from the tournament has been at the hands of a hot 3 pt shooting team. I don't know if we've proven yet that we defend the 3 pointer well. I wish there was a statistic that could show how many open threes we allow and opponents' percentage on open and contested shots.

That is probably true. the 2015 team looks better when you include the "decent" run in the tournament. The stats may be a BIT deceptive in they are using adjusted values, and streaks could be a factor of simply who we were playing (as the first streak of 7 games was likely aided by). And 1 PPP is largely an arbitrary marker.

However, when all the numbers line up in this way, its far more likely to be what it seems to (good defense) than a combination of effects which "happen" to push all the numbers the same way. Sure it's possible to roll snake-eyes 15 times in a row, but after each one, the likelihood that the dice are rigged goes up.

I've always wanted to be able to track "quality threes" metric...but the difficulty is that it doesn't capture the "three not taken" because the defense was good (in the same vein that a good shot blocker is valuable not just for the shots he blocked, but for the shots the opponent didn't take at all).

In any case, if you want some more validation:

KP did a series a few years ago on three point defense, and ultimately concluded that in general, teams don't have a HUGE effect on how well opponents shoot, but that the more important fact IS in fact that those opposing teams don't take the threes because they aren't open. If duke is actually playing good defense, we would expect to see a low percentage of three point shots.....well?

3PA/FGA: 25.4 (11th)

Duke is 11th best in the country in preventing the opposition from even TAKING threes. (national average is 33%). That, combined with the fact that duke plays ultimately, pretty good two point defense (36th best), means that duke's defense would be really good even IF teams were shooting a good clip.....but they aren't. Duke currently has the second best 3pt% against.

So we know that opponents are taking fewer threes, but are still missing at a far higher clip than you would expect....what gives? My theory is that due to the very strong interior D, opponents are forced into shot clock situations or are otherwise frustrated and take shots which you would normally pass up. Lower %.

Could the low opponent % be just some luck? Quite probably to some degree....but even if adjust for that, duke is still playing really good defense. And the open corner three here or there is inconsequential.

Troublemaker
03-08-2018, 03:48 PM
If duke is actually playing good defense, we would expect to see a low percentage of three point shots...well?

3PA/FGA: 25.4 (11th)

Duke is 11th best in the country in preventing the opposition from even TAKING threes. (national average is 33%). That, combined with the fact that duke plays ultimately, pretty good two point defense (36th best), means that duke's defense would be really good even IF teams were shooting a good clip...but they aren't. Duke currently has the second best 3pt% against.

So we know that opponents are taking fewer threes, but are still missing at a far higher clip than you would expect...what gives? My theory is that due to the very strong interior D, opponents are forced into shot clock situations or are otherwise frustrated and take shots which you would normally pass up. Lower %.

Could the low opponent % be just some luck? Quite probably to some degree...but even if adjust for that, duke is still playing really good defense. And the open corner three here or there is inconsequential.

You're looking at the wrong year (probaby 2010). This season's Duke team has given up a ton of 3-pt attempts compared to previous seasons.

Our 3PA/FGA is 36.9, good for only 159th in the country, whereas we're usually top-25 in that stat.

uh_no
03-08-2018, 04:00 PM
You're looking at the wrong year (probaby 2010). This season's Duke team has given up a ton of 3-pt attempts compared to previous seasons.

Our 3PA/FGA is 36.9, good for only 159th in the country, whereas we're usually top-25 in that stat.

oh crap.

I rescind my analysis :)

We're still #11 in two point defense, and #1 in not giving up freethrows (which is something that's been under looked of late...like hugely) and pretty good at steals.

Devilwin
03-08-2018, 04:07 PM
We should beat them, in spite of all the sports media hounds thinking Bonzie can walk on water. Frankly, I am sick of hearing his name. Every single game I've watched it's Bonzie, Bonzie, Bonzie.

heartofgold
03-08-2018, 04:09 PM
You're looking at the wrong year (probaby 2010). This season's Duke team has given up a ton of 3-pt attempts compared to previous seasons.

Our 3PA/FGA is 36.9, good for only 159th in the country, whereas we're usually top-25 in that stat.

Uh_no makes an excellent point that teams won't take 3's if they don't feel open enough to take them. So a good measure of the quality of 3 point defense is to measure simply the number of attempts taken. This can to some extent remove the role of luck (ie teams either hot or cold from threes, making or missing easy or tough 3s). If we are still allowing an above average number of 3 point attempts, that is exactly what exposes us to the possibility of a hot shooting team to eliminate us.

Granted, our overall defensive stats have improved substantially, but there is no doubt in my mind that the biggest vulnerability in the tournament for any team is how well they can defend the 3. Do we really believe, generally speaking, that the zone is better suited at defending the three than MTM? I understand there is also interior defense we can't ignore, but given our size, simply taking up space seems to be good enough on that front this year.

uh_no
03-08-2018, 04:12 PM
Uh_no makes an excellent point that teams won't take 3's if they don't feel open enough to take them. So a good measure of the quality of 3 point defense is to measure simply the number of attempts taken. This can to some extent remove the role of luck (ie teams either hot or cold from threes, making or missing easy or tough 3s). If we are still allowing an above average number of 3 point attempts, that is exactly what exposes us to the possibility of a hot shooting team to eliminate us.

Granted, our overall defensive stats have improved substantially, but there is no doubt in my mind that the biggest vulnerability in the tournament for any team is how well they can defend the 3. Do we really believe, generally speaking, that the zone is better suited at defending the three than MTM? I understand there is also interior defense we can't ignore, but given our size, simply taking up space seems to be good enough on that front this year.

GEnerally speaking probbaly not....but in this duke team's case, they were so poor at it while playing man, that generally speaking probably doesn't apply.

Oddly enough, we've also seen improvements in rebounding and steals....two things that classically don't jibe with a zone.

RepoMan
03-08-2018, 04:16 PM
To me, perhaps the biggest question in this game is: How do Freshman who have no college tournament experience respond to an experienced team who will be playing as if their entire season depends upon this game? It took awhile for us to get accustomed to conference play, especially on the road. Notre Dame is completely desperate, which will increase the intensity exponentially. I would love to get a lead so that we are shooting without pressure as the second half starts to reach end game.

CDu
03-08-2018, 04:19 PM
GEnerally speaking probbaly not...but in this duke team's case, they were so poor at it while playing man, that generally speaking probably doesn't apply.

Oddly enough, we've also seen improvements in rebounding and steals...two things that classically don't jibe with a zone.

Yeah, there is no reason that a zone defense should necessarily be worse at defending 3s than man-to-man. You can always extend a zone to prevent 3s. But as it relates to our team, we did such a bad job with dribble penetration on high ball screens in man-to-man that our defense was giving up easy threes on the drive and dish. So by preventing the drive and dish, we may actually be giving up fewer 3s. Or at least not more threes.

The other thing that the zone does is keep our worst perimeter defender (Carter) from playing defense on the perimeter. That certainly helps reduce open 3s.

Bob Green
03-08-2018, 04:22 PM
Bagley and Carter need to take the ball right at Notre Dame inside to perhaps get Colson and/or Geben in foul trouble. We need to play aggressive on offense to force the Irish to expend a lot of energy on defense.

Bob Green
03-08-2018, 04:27 PM
To me, perhaps the biggest question in this game is: How do Freshman who have no college tournament experience respond to an experienced team who will be playing as if their entire season depends upon this game?

Legitimate question but we are at the point in the season where freshmen should have gained enough experience to be past game jitters.

FerryFor50
03-08-2018, 04:35 PM
Legitimate question but we are at the point in the season where freshmen should have gained enough experience to be past game jitters.

Well, we just saw game jitters in the first half of the UNC game. And this is the ACC tournament, so it's a different beast in terms of pressure.

Guess that's why they play the games! :-P

Doria
03-08-2018, 04:36 PM
Legitimate question but we are at the point in the season where freshmen should have gained enough experience to be past game jitters.

Also, we’re almost to the point that our freshmen are playing with their entire collegiate experience on the line.

Kedsy
03-08-2018, 04:42 PM
Do we really believe, generally speaking, that the zone is better suited at defending the three than MTM?

Yes, we do.

If we split the season into three parts:

"Early" m2m (Elon through NC State) (15 games):
%threes: 37.0%
3-pt success: .360

"Better" m2m (Pitt 1 through UNC 1) (9 games):
%threes: 34.8%
3-pt success: .315

Zone (GaTech through UNC 2) (7 games):
%threes: 39.9%
3-pt success: .261

Note that since the 3-point shot was adopted, the highest percentage of threes taken (out of overall opponents' FGA) against Duke in the 31 seasons before this one was 28.8% (which happened last season). Second-most was 27.8% in 2015. Opponents are taking a crazy amount of threes against us this year, presumably because they're not so excited to challenge Carter, Bagley, et al., in the paint.

So our early season m2m defense allowed a lot of threes and opponents made them at a high percentage, a bad combination. In the next stretch of games, still m2m, we focused more on stopping the three, and we had some success, but weren't consistent enough, as the two games against St. John's and UNC showed. Against our zone, teams have taken a ton of threes, but mostly more difficult threes (despite the occasional easy corner three), and the results have been phenomenal. I don't think our success against the three in the last seven games is any more coincidence than our opponents' success in the first 15 games.

Here's the game by game data:



Opp FGA 3P 3PA 3P% %threes
Elon 63 14 33 0.424 52.4%
Utah Valley 67 6 25 0.240 37.3%
Michigan State 61 9 25 0.360 41.0%
Southern 67 7 17 0.412 25.4%
Furman 64 9 29 0.310 45.3%
Portland State 77 12 33 0.364 42.9%
Texas 70 4 23 0.174 32.9%
Florida 71 8 20 0.400 28.2%
Indiana 59 5 21 0.238 35.6%
South Dakota 68 10 22 0.455 32.4%
Saint Fran (PA) 71 7 30 0.233 42.3%
Boston College 61 15 26 0.577 42.6%
Evansville 50 5 14 0.357 28.0%
Florida State 69 15 32 0.469 46.4%
NC State 67 5 14 0.357 20.9%
Pitt 51 4 22 0.182 43.1%
Wake Forest 75 10 23 0.435 30.7%
Miami (FL) 78 9 25 0.360 32.1%
Pitt 49 4 16 0.250 32.7%
Wake Forest 62 5 20 0.250 32.3%
Virginia 66 6 22 0.273 33.3%
Notre Dame 61 7 25 0.280 41.0%
St. John's (NY) 65 8 17 0.471 26.2%
UNC 77 11 33 0.333 42.9%
Georgia Tech 66 7 27 0.259 40.9%
Virginia Tech 49 7 20 0.350 40.8%
Clemson 61 5 20 0.250 32.8%
Louisville 64 5 20 0.250 31.3%
Syracuse 54 6 25 0.240 46.3%
Virginia Tech 50 5 22 0.227 44.0%
UNC 70 8 31 0.258 44.3%

RepoMan
03-08-2018, 04:42 PM
Legitimate question but we are at the point in the season where freshmen should have gained enough experience to be past game jitters.

I was thinking less about our jitters, and more about perhaps not having faced a team that will be playing as hard as this team will play tonight. Honestly though, this game will be great experience for the next tournament. Notre Dame will playing like this is one and done, and that it what every game in NCAA will be like. (Of course, the flip-side to all this is that if things start going south for ND, that basket will look super small as the pressure mounts and they face the possible end of the season. I am glad that our defense has improved so dramatically.)

budwom
03-08-2018, 04:44 PM
Uh_no makes an excellent point that teams won't take 3's if they don't feel open enough to take them. So a good measure of the quality of 3 point defense is to measure simply the number of attempts taken. This can to some extent remove the role of luck (ie teams either hot or cold from threes, making or missing easy or tough 3s). If we are still allowing an above average number of 3 point attempts, that is exactly what exposes us to the possibility of a hot shooting team to eliminate us.

Granted, our overall defensive stats have improved substantially, but there is no doubt in my mind that the biggest vulnerability in the tournament for any team is how well they can defend the 3. Do we really believe, generally speaking, that the zone is better suited at defending the three than MTM? I understand there is also interior defense we can't ignore, but given our size, simply taking up space seems to be good enough on that front this year.

I think it's true that our zone of late has been better than our man to man three point defense was previously. I watched the last ten minutes of the unc game several times, and our pressure (and length) had
unc rushing their three point shots on many occasions, it seemed pretty clear. Like they heard footsteps as they squared up.

szstark
03-08-2018, 05:02 PM
I think I’ve come to several epiphanies after reading this entire thread. First, if things had gone differently in several of our previous games, the results would have been different. Second, we would have probably been better off if ND had been the 2 seed and we had been the 12 seed because 3 games in 3 days doesn’t put you at any disadvantage and our freshmen would now have more experience. Third, the ACC Tournament is so unimportant compared to the NCAA Tournament that playing in it isn’t worth risking our player’s heath or statistics. Wow, I feel so much better now that I fully understand the situation. :confused:

Spanarkel
03-08-2018, 05:03 PM
Duke doesn't just play a zone; they play a very adaptable zone. They account for teams getting hot from 3 and start extending it out into a sort of modified 3-2. If teams start to attack the middle, they pack it in a bit and make teams shoot from deep. A lot of threes other teams take against this zone are either contested or very deep. The only 3s that have been wide open have been the corner 3 when a guy misses an assignment (*cough* Bagley *cough*), off an offensive board or in transition.

That's why the trend hasn't been luck. It's been smart defense.

In the most recent unc game I count 7 non-corner 3s with fairly relaxed Duke defensive postures in the first ten minutes of the first half. Even the straight-on 3 that Berry airballed(12:05)was, if not wide open, leisurely defended imo.

uh_no
03-08-2018, 05:09 PM
Legitimate question but we are at the point in the season where freshmen should have gained enough experience to be past game jitters.

Should...probably....I'm not sure it's nerves so much as forgetting one's role in the moment. So from that perspective, it's still somewhat a lack of discipline than anything. I kind of forgive them for being down when MB came back, and then forcing things trying to make it work against UNC.

Hopefully the second half against UNC allowed them to....get the "piano" off their back and they come out rockin'

jv001
03-08-2018, 05:47 PM
Man, there have been some excellent posts on the Duke Defense. It seems to my untrained eye, that Duke's zone defense has been able to adjust as to the team or player that may be having a success in either perimeter shooting or inside shooting. There have been many times that Grayson has been playing quarterback in the zone. He's pointed to certain players that are good three point shooters and also pointed to players that can be effective at the high post. This and the ability for the zone to change back and forth from 2-3 to 3-2 has kept teams off balance.

Another thing that Duke throws at teams is the zone press. It's used to make teams take time off the shot clock. This can have an effect on opponents hurrying the three point shot. Making it an almost desperation three. I credit our coaching staff and Grayson for getting our freshmen to speed on playing this kind of defense.

As for our offense. I actually don't know how the team turned around our offense in the 2nd half against the cheats but I sure am glad they did. We went from forcing the ball to our big guys into a free flowing offense. A tremendous improvement over the first half turnover machine. I know it just wasn't getting the piano off their backs. The middle of the lane looked to be more open for drives and entry passes. I hope to see our zone effective and our offense flow smoothly for the entire game. GoDuke!

-jk
03-08-2018, 06:46 PM
DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.

As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

riverside6
03-08-2018, 07:08 PM
Live tempo-based stats for Duke/Notre Dame ...

https://www.scacchoops.com/tbd-at-duke-basketball-live-stats-3818-7-pm

accfanfrom1970
03-08-2018, 07:13 PM
Live tempo-based stats for Duke/Notre Dame ...

https://www.scacchoops.com/tbd-at-duke-basketball-live-stats-3818-7-pm

Live tempo stats can't keep up with all the offense...

WHOneedsSOX
03-08-2018, 07:13 PM
Allen is on FIRE!

UrinalCake
03-08-2018, 07:15 PM
Good decision to back off of the full court press; ND was carving it up. Grayson with the heat check!

WHOneedsSOX
03-08-2018, 07:20 PM
Duval is playing some great basketball. 7 assists already!

devilsince1977
03-08-2018, 07:22 PM
Good decision to back off of the full court press; ND was carving it up. Grayson with the heat check!


Check complete, Grayson is HOT

carteretdevil
03-08-2018, 07:22 PM
Javin/Bolden also doing well filling in for Carter

kako
03-08-2018, 07:22 PM
Think Allen is trying to make it to 2000 points this game!

9F

WHOneedsSOX
03-08-2018, 07:28 PM
Notre Dame is carving up the zone.

carteretdevil
03-08-2018, 07:29 PM
I Agree - very easily

carteretdevil
03-08-2018, 07:30 PM
we may be hot - but they are getting easy baskets. We need to find a way to tighten up that zone. Allen will not be this hot all night. Also we need to hit some FT

carteretdevil
03-08-2018, 07:35 PM
dang

WHOneedsSOX
03-08-2018, 07:36 PM
Colson tired already. Have to get a big enough lead where he can't rest much in the 2nd.

gocanes0506
03-08-2018, 07:37 PM
Duval needs to sit. Turnovers and bad decisions galore.

Really making a bad decision not pressuring them and forcing them to work. We are are sitting back in the zone and they aren’t having to work on O. Not alot of movement on O and they are resting on D too.

kako
03-08-2018, 07:39 PM
Torres' 3rd foul... which ESPN missed cause they have to pay the man.

bluedev_92
03-08-2018, 07:39 PM
Did anyone see trents last shot? It looked like it was a three, they only counted it as a 2...

arnie
03-08-2018, 07:42 PM
Did anyone see trents last shot? It looked like it was a three, they only counted it as a 2...

Maybe foot on the line, but ESPN not covering the action

Acymetric
03-08-2018, 07:43 PM
Yeah, 7 assists is great, but 4 turnovers is...less than optimal. And most of those assists are simple passes to an open shooter that I would expect just about any guard on a D1 roster to make (not exactly dropping dimes like Steve Nash or Chris "Wear Your Cup" Paul.

DangerDevil
03-08-2018, 07:43 PM
Did anyone see trents last shot? It looked like it was a three, they only counted it as a 2...

I thought you were correct and in fact you were!

Hauerwas
03-08-2018, 07:46 PM
What is Bagley doing on defense? What is he doing? He’s drifting way a out and literally just standing their flat footed.

WHOneedsSOX
03-08-2018, 07:47 PM
What is Bagley doing on defense? What is he doing? He’s drifting way a out and literally just standing their flat footed.

He's guarding his zone and not a man.

BigZ
03-08-2018, 07:51 PM
Put TD back at point please

ehdg
03-08-2018, 07:52 PM
We need to pick up the pace! I think an up tempo game favors us. Also we need Wendsl to not pick up his 4th foul till near the end of the game. We need Wendell on the floor.

SCMatt33
03-08-2018, 07:53 PM
I don't think we were as good as we looked the first 8 minutes or a bad as we looked the last 8. Just went from everything going down to everything rimming out. I don't think our D has been that bad, they've just done an excellent job passing through the zone. We've done good with some rotations, but with passing like that, they'll eventually pass faster than you can rotate

DesertDevil
03-08-2018, 07:56 PM
Colson tired already. Have to get a big enough lead where he can't rest much in the 2nd.


Pretty amazing he's tired when he's basically camped in the lane waiting to get the pass. 3 trips in a row he was in for a minimum of 5 seconds.

Hope someone points that out to he refs.

Saratoga2
03-08-2018, 07:57 PM
Duke missed some chippies inside as MBIII is having trouble with defensive pressure and Duval missed one in close. I agree that MBIII is not putting up any defense inside as he is staying in his zone and leaving the middle to be guarde by one. Won't work.

hope TD can get back and have a good second half. Needs to be better with the ball and allow Grayson and Trent some shooting opportunities

Hauerwas
03-08-2018, 07:57 PM
K might switch o man the zone is that bad tonight. No action. The back line without Carter is getting shredded. Bagley continues to be out of position and motionless.

Sixthman
03-08-2018, 07:57 PM
Duval had four unforced turnovers plus a shot from the lane which was so ill considered it should qualify as a turnover. Grayson made a horrible clock management decision to push it at the end. We should have had the last shot. Bagley getting pushed around and not finishing strong enough. Defensive rebounding has been good, transition offense good. Three good shots rimmed out in last ten minutes. Got some good bench minutes. Coleman seems to have a free pass from the refs.

Utley
03-08-2018, 07:59 PM
I love the O - but worry about the outcome if ND gets the same looks in the 2nd half they got in the first. Have to make it harder to penetrate the zone. Really missed Carter underneath.

accfanfrom1970
03-08-2018, 07:59 PM
Did Bagley and Grayson start out 9 for 9, then go 0 for 9? I think that's correct. Need them to start out the 2nd half seeing the ball go thru the hoop.

arnie
03-08-2018, 08:00 PM
Duval had four unforced turnovers plus a shot from the lane which was so ill considered it should qualify as a turnover. Grayson made a horrible clock management decision to push it at the end. We should have had the last shot. Bagley getting pushed around and not finishing strong enough. Defensive rebounding has been good, transition offense good. Three good shots rimmed out in last ten minutes. Got some good bench minutes. Coleman seems to have a free pass from the refs.

Colson I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ing at the ref after tied up by Javin. Ref apologized and promised to do better in 2nd half.

WHOneedsSOX
03-08-2018, 08:01 PM
I love the O - but worry about the outcome if ND gets the same looks in the 2nd half they got in the first. Have to make it harder to penetrate the zone. Really missed Carter underneath.

ND is getting any shot they want. Layup, dunk, wide open 3. Hopefully Carter can close up the paint without fouling.

jv001
03-08-2018, 08:03 PM
We can't play good defense with Wendell getting 6 minutes in a half. He's our best inside defender. Now when he comes back in, he may be too cautious trying to block shots. Got to keep the pressure on them. I like that we're playing a faster tempo. This could tire out fatty colson. GoDuke!

Atldukie79
03-08-2018, 08:03 PM
By my count, our FG shooting at halftime is:

Upper class: 9-12
Freshmen: 6-22

Experience matters

cato
03-08-2018, 08:03 PM
K might switch o man the zone is that bad tonight. No action. The back line without Carter is getting shredded. Bagley continues to be out of position and motionless.

ND scored 37 points. Duke needs to tweak, not overhaul

accfanfrom1970
03-08-2018, 08:12 PM
Right when you're getting mad at Duval, he dunks.

Hancock 4 Duke
03-08-2018, 08:12 PM
Was just about to say Duval has no redeeming qualities. That cool dunk was good, I guess.

kako
03-08-2018, 08:13 PM
For all of Duval's faults, he's the only guy that can really do that.

But I'd prefer that's the way he gets most of his shots...

WHOneedsSOX
03-08-2018, 08:13 PM
Right when you're getting mad at Duval, he dunks.

I know that TO was his but Bagley put him in a bad spot.

Dub
03-08-2018, 08:15 PM
Just popped in the in-game thread of a 10 point lead and only see negativity. Lol! Guess Duke has to win every half by 20 to satisfy some of you. Sit back and relax and enjoy the process! Let’s go Duke!

oldnavy
03-08-2018, 08:16 PM
Colson just spent a leisurely 6 seconds in the lane.

crdaul
03-08-2018, 08:18 PM
Colson just spent a leisurely 6 seconds in the lane.

Yes, he's been doing that the whole game.... don't they call that anymore?

WHOneedsSOX
03-08-2018, 08:19 PM
Yes, he's been doing that the whole game... don't they call that anymore?

Don't worry, they'll call the first one on Carter near the end of the game in a close game.

Hancock 4 Duke
03-08-2018, 08:19 PM
Just popped in the in-game thread of a 10 point lead and only see negativity. Lol! Guess Duke has to win every half by 20 to satisfy some of you. Sit back and relax and enjoy the process! Let’s go Duke!

Could be a 20 point lead without the turnovers ;)

Selover
03-08-2018, 08:21 PM
Bonzie with the hip check into the boards. Barry Melrose will be all over that one on SC.


Then Carter gets his 4th on that...

WHOneedsSOX
03-08-2018, 08:22 PM
Really, they call that weak one on Carter but Colson can run through Bagley with no call?

Even worse cause Carter was coming out on the next whistle anyways. Bolden was checking in for him.

DangerDevil
03-08-2018, 08:22 PM
Colson just spent a leisurely 6 seconds in the lane.

He just spent 9 before that layup

kako
03-08-2018, 08:23 PM
Bolden needs to play well now. I've been touting his rise - make me right, bra!

Son of Mojo
03-08-2018, 08:23 PM
Really, they call that weak one on Carter but Colson can run through Bagley with no call?

For real. How does that happen??

gocanes0506
03-08-2018, 08:23 PM
Geez bonzi just flopped and the refs bought it. Refs didn’t buy MBIII’s flop on the sideline but Bonzi’s? C’mon man

kako
03-08-2018, 08:25 PM
Geez bonzi just flopped and the refs bought it. Refs didn’t buy MBIII’s flop on the sideline but Bonzi’s? C’mon man

Yeah, but that was a real headscratcher by Carter. Why even touch the guy in the backcourt knowing you have 3 fouls?

WHOneedsSOX
03-08-2018, 08:26 PM
Yeah, but that was a real headscratcher by Carter. Why even touch the guy in the backcourt knowing you have 3 fouls?

Wasn't paying attention and Colson just stopped right in front of him.

knicknut
03-08-2018, 08:28 PM
Yes, he's been doing that the whole game... don't they call that anymore?

I am part of a Greek chorus at this end helping the refs count. Apparently Swofford decreed differently before the game...

crdaul
03-08-2018, 08:28 PM
And Colson just bent MBIII's fingers...dirty jerk

cato
03-08-2018, 08:29 PM
Wasn't paying attention and Colson just stopped right in front of him.

And Colson sold it like a diva.

gocanes0506
03-08-2018, 08:29 PM
Wasn't paying attention and Colson just stopped right in front of him.

Yea but he didn’t do more than bump. Bonzie threw the ball up in the air and acted like he was run over.

kako
03-08-2018, 08:29 PM
Wasn't paying attention and Colson just stopped right in front of him.

Maybe so, but still... Anyway, Bolden now has 3 as well. Now it's up to DeLaurier. Could try and spell them with White. I'd totally save Carter until at least the under 8 to.

Sixthman
03-08-2018, 08:30 PM
He just said, with no hint of sarcasm, that Bagley’s hand (while shooting) collided with Coleman’s hand, resulting in a injury.

WHOneedsSOX
03-08-2018, 08:30 PM
Maybe so, but still... Anyway, Bolden now has 3 as well. Now it's up to DeLaurier. Could try and spell them with White. I'd totally save Carter until at least the under 8 to.

I agree but it wasn't as if he reached or anything. Was just in a bad spot.

Shocked Carter is back in already.

kako
03-08-2018, 08:30 PM
Maybe so, but still... Anyway, Bolden now has 3 as well. Now it's up to DeLaurier. Could try and spell them with White. I'd totally save Carter until at least the under 8 to.

Ah checking myself. Only 2.

kako
03-08-2018, 08:33 PM
Shocked Carter is back in already.

Ya.... I trust in K. I trust in K. I trust in K.

WHOneedsSOX
03-08-2018, 08:37 PM
Ya... I trust in K. I trust in K. I trust in K.

Maybe just trying to keep Carter engaged. Tough to play when you play a few minutes every 30 real minutes.

Bagley is a freaking beast. If he hits his outside the key shot at a 40% clip he's unstoppable.

cato
03-08-2018, 08:37 PM
Ya... I trust in K. I trust in K. I trust in K.

I mean, not a bad strategy.

kako
03-08-2018, 08:40 PM
I mean, not a bad strategy.

It's seemed to work over 1000 times

dukelion
03-08-2018, 08:40 PM
Colston looks to be out of gas.

Great job by the zone on ND's 3pt shooters. Barely any clean looks that weren't deep and almost no corner 3's which have been a problem for us.

Dub
03-08-2018, 08:43 PM
Ques hitting jumpers now. We are going deep this year! Loving his confidence right now. And MBIII and Grayson say hello to all those that said they can’t play well together. The zone is really wearing them down.

kako
03-08-2018, 08:44 PM
I don't recall ever seeing Bolden hit a jumper like that in any meaningful game. Really happy he's playing well. With Carter more foul-prone these days for whatever reason, it's great that Bolden and DeLaurier can fill in so admirably.

subzero02
03-08-2018, 08:47 PM
Bolden would be a real threat as a shot blocker if he reacted about .25 seconds faster... his reaction time is better than it used to be but he still is slow on the draw.

Phoenix22
03-08-2018, 08:48 PM
What happened to Jack White?

HereBeforeCoachK
03-08-2018, 08:49 PM
What happened to Jack White?

I think K has settled in on a 7.5 man rotation...less Alex seemingly, almost no Jack

subzero02
03-08-2018, 08:52 PM
Bagley is pretty good... what happened on that dunk???

kako
03-08-2018, 08:55 PM
Wow, that's a stat from Shulman.

30/15 games for K's career. One by Laettner. Four by Bagley.

subzero02
03-08-2018, 08:56 PM
AOCya...