This Week in the ACC: ACC Tournament

[pfrduke]

Before we get into the bracket, here's the final standings by conference-only efficiency margins (unadjusted):

Virginia: +18.5
Duke: +16.1
North Carolina: +7.3
Louisville: +4.3
Clemson: +3.9
Notre Dame: +1.3
NC State: +1.0
Miami: +0.8
Florida State: -0.7
Virginia Tech: -1.0
Syracuse: -1.1
Boston College: -4.4
Wake Forest: -7.6
Georgia Tech: -8.7
Pittsburgh: -29.4

Notre Dame continues to show its considerable bad luck - even without Colson for most of the conference season (and without Farrell for a chunk of it), Notre Dame put up the 6th best margin in conference play, more consistent with a 10-8 outcome than the 8-10 that they ended up with.

Louisville also played better on a points basis than Clemson did, even though Clemson finished two games better in the standings - although, I think that is largely due to playing Pittsburgh. The Cardinals won by 60 combined points in 2 games (totaling +43 points per 100 possessions); Clemson also stomped Pitt (+39 points per 100 possessions) but only played them once. A non-Pitt version of the conference margin standings would better reflect how the teams stack up against legitimate competition.

On to the brackets (higher seed listed first - will update this daily):

Tuesday
[79]Boston College (-4) vs. [113]Georgia Tech (12:00, ESPN2)
[28]Notre Dame (-15) vs. [236]Pittsburgh (2:00, ESPN2)
[51]Syracuse (-4) vs. [90]Wake Forest (7:00, ESPNU)

Wednesday
[35]Florida State (+1) vs. [34]Louisville (12:00, ESPN)
[41]NC State vs. BC/GT (2:00, ESPN)
[31]Virginia Tech vs. ND/Pitt (7:00, ESPN2)
[7]UNC vs. Syracuse/Wake (9:00, ESPN2)

Thursday
[1]Virginia vs. FSU/Louisville (12:00, ESPN)
[18]Clemson vs. NCSU/BC/GT (2:00, ESPN)
[3]Duke vs. VT/ND/Pitt (7:00, ESPN)
[36]Miami vs. UNC/Syracuse/Wake (9:00, ESPN)

Friday
Semi-final #1 (7:00, ESPN/ESPN2)
Semi-final #2 (9:00, ESPN/ESPN2)

Saturday
Final (8:30, ESPN)

[pfrduke]

Also, here are the Pomeroy odds (this is based on full-season performance and relative strength with respect to college basketball as a whole, not conference-only and relative strength within the conference):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXasbuOUMAAaFTU.jpg

[ncexnyc]

I'll take Tech over BC. I think the JLO trio is better than the duo of Bowman and Robinson. As much as I like Robinson, the kid has taken several nasty falls on the same elbow and I'm not sure he's completely healthy.

The Irish should roll and I like the Syracuse backcourt to carry the day for them.

[Bob Green]

Al Featherston has an ACC Tournament article up on the front page:

https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2018/3/5/17079914/the-acc-tournament-basketball-championship

A couple of short quotes to whet the appetite:


Mike Krzyzewski has always approached the tournament with respect – and not coincidentally has more ACC titles than any ACC coach.


BTW: That’s something to look for this week – first-year coaches at N.C. State usually do very well in their first ACC Tournament. Will that work for Kevin Keatts?

It's a long article - most Featherston articles are - but it is well worth taking the time to give it a read.

[ndkjr70]

Well, Duke got a difficult draw. Not much else to say besides that. Of course, nothing will touch Duke's run last year (I'm not sure if that will happen for the rest of my life as a Duke basketball fan). 5 of the 7 best teams in the ACC, in my opinion, are in the bottom half of the bracket.

I know Pitt is completely useless, but if they ball-out and keep it a ~10 point game through the second half, Bonzie will need to log some minutes. That's all we can hope for -- Bonzie to play and be tired. When watching ND/VT, I'll be rooting for whoever is losing to score a quick bucket. Perfect world has VT win in 18 overtimes, but realistically, I'd feel better facing VT than Bonzie/Farrell - led ND. But, if we do get Bonzie, I'll hope that he played 40 minutes the night before and at least 25 minutes against Pitt. Not holding my breath.

I don't think Miami beats Carolina twice, so we'll probably get our tiebreaker. We seem to fare well against the Cheats in neutral site games (I can't remember the last time we lost to them in the ACCs, though I'm sure it's more recent than my memory indicates.) I also see UVA getting a relaxing stroll to the championship game, made ever-so slightly less relaxing if they go through Louisville in their first game -- it's difficult to beat that team three times in a single season, especially on the heels of a national-embarrassment that won't soon be forgotten.

In the end I think - and hope - that Duke will get a second crack at UVA. And I think we've got a pretty good shot at giving them a run for their money.

[Truth&Justise]

I'm curious to see how Bonzie looks in the open scrimmage that Notre Dame scheduled for this afternoon.

[PackMan97]

I like State's draw. First, we stay away from Duke or the Cheaters. I like playing GT or BC with them having played the day before. Clemson is a team I think we match up well with. UVa doesn't scare me the way they have been playing. I think State is capable of beating them...and we can figure out how to beat ND in the finals :)

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I like State's draw. First, we stay away from Duke or the Cheaters. I like playing GT or BC with them having played the day before. Clemson is a team I think we match up well with. UVa doesn't scare me the way they have been playing. I think State is capable of beating them...and we can figure out how to beat ND in the finals :)

As a Duke fan, I'm happy not to be in State's draw as well.....

[curtis325]

As a Duke fan, I'm happy not to be in State's draw as well....

Duke and State are a lock to meet in the finals.

[JasonEvans]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXasbuOUMAAaFTU.jpg

Pitt has an 8.7% chance to beat ND... that computes to 11.5-to-1 odds. Anyone want to bet? I put up 12 pies, you put up 1 pie.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Pitt has an 8.7% chance to beat ND... that computes to 11.5-to-1 odds. Anyone want to bet? I put up 12 pies, you put up 1 pie.

Man, I'm about to have a kid. That's tempting just on the off chance to have that much food to put in the freezer.

[OldPhiKap]

Man, I'm about to have a kid. That's tempting just on the off chance to have that much food to put in the freezer.

Congrats!

[PackMan97]

Man, I'm about to have a kid. That's tempting just on the off chance to have that much food to put in the freezer.

Congrats! You are lucky enough to be bringing him into a world where it will be OK if he becomes a Pack fan.

[duke4ever19]

Dan Dackich is doing the ACC Tournament?? Ugh.

[rsvman]

Oddsmakers/prognosticators wrong already.

[tbyers11]

Oddsmakers/prognosticators wrong already.

How so? BC was a 3 point Vegas and KenPom favorite and the higher seed.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Congrats!


Congrats! You are lucky enough to be bringing him into a world where it will be OK if he becomes a Pack fan.

Thanks, y'all! Little Tony De'Andre Darkstar is a very lucky boy to be coming into a world with so much encouragement from such a broad swath of ACC schools. (His maternal grandfather is - gasp! - a Tar Heel, albeit one who had largely renounced the hoops program even before the academic scandal hit.)

[CDu]

Thanks, y'all! Little Tony De'Andre Darkstar is a very lucky boy to be coming into a world with so much encouragement from such a broad swath of ACC schools. (His maternal grandfather is - gasp! - a Tar Heel, albeit one who had largely renounced the hoops program even before the academic scandal hit.)

Two words of advice from someone who joined the dad club a few years ago: get sleep.

Oh, and congrats! Your next few years will be a wild ride. Exhausting, but amazingly fun.

[UrinalCake]

Here’s a somewhat obscure question: now that we’re underway, I’m noticing that tomorrow #5 NC State will play the winner of the game that started at noon, #6 UNC-CHeat play the winner of the 7pm game and #7 VT play the winner of the 2:45 game. This seems off to me. You would think the higher seeded teams would get to play the opponents coming off the least amount of rest. Also, why are there two afternoon games and only one evening game today? Surely more people want to watch games at night.

I would have expected the BC/GT game to be at 9pm, Cuse/WF at 7, and ND/Pitt at noon. Could someone explain this to me?

[OldPhiKap]

Thanks, y'all! Little Tony De'Andre Darkstar is a very lucky boy to be coming into a world with so much encouragement from such a broad swath of ACC schools. (His maternal grandfather is - gasp! - a Tar Heel, albeit one who had largely renounced the hoops program even before the academic scandal hit.)


Two words of advice from someone who joined the dad club a few years ago: get sleep.

Oh, and congrats! Your next few years will be a wild ride. Exhausting, but amazingly fun.

Good advice there.

Also, I would tell you to pick up Garcia/Grisman's Not For Kids Only although betting you already have it. Good music early is an investment in character development.

Oh, and never too early to get moving on a 529 college plan.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Two words of advice from someone who joined the dad club a few years ago: get sleep.

Oh, and congrats! Your next few years will be a wild ride. Exhausting, but amazingly fun.

Thank you, sir! I should point out that Lil' Tony - which really would be his name if I could get my wife to agree to it - has two older brothers, so I know full well what's about to happen. On the bright side, I'm taking paternity leave at the EXACT right time of the year!

[MCFinARL]

Two words of advice from someone who joined the dad club a few years ago: get sleep.

Oh, and congrats! Your next few years will be a wild ride. Exhausting, but amazingly fun.

And while you are at it, win the lottery.

Seriously, good advice, but likely very hard to follow. Congrats, Darkstar!

[English]

Good advice there.

Also, I would tell you to pick up Garcia/Grisman's Not For Kids Only although betting you already have it. Good music early is an investment in character development.

Oh, and never to early to get moving on a 529 college plan.

Just a heads-up, but some states (and DC) require a child's SSN to start a 529...so, it IS occasionally too early to get moving on one.

Congrats, Darkstar!

ETA: My 10mo son is in a nannyshare with a 10mo UVA spawn. The earlier Duke-Hoo game this season was INTENSE!!

[OldPhiKap]

Just for those keeping score at home, State beat BC 82-66 just two weeks ago (in Raleigh). So not expecting an epic battle tomorrow.

[PackMan97]

Here’s a somewhat obscure question: now that we’re underway, I’m noticing that tomorrow #5 NC State will play the winner of the game that started at noon, #6 UNC-CHeat play the winner of the 7pm game and #7 VT play the winner of the 2:45 game. This seems off to me. You would think the higher seeded teams would get to play the opponents coming off the least amount of rest. Also, why are there two afternoon games and only one evening game today? Surely more people want to watch games at night.

I would have expected the BC/GT game to be at 9pm, Cuse/WF at 7, and ND/Pitt at noon. Could someone explain this to me?

John Swofford sucks and rigs everything to favor the Tarheels?

No, seriously. That's the truth.

Actually, blame TV. In reality there should be a game at 2p and then 7p and 9p matching up with the wednesday schedule exactly. However, it's all shifted forward a game slot to 12, 2 and 7, most likely to give the smaller conference semi/finals and west coast tournaments some prime time slots instead of the crap round of the ACC. Heck, the 7pm game isn't even on ESPN, ESPN2 or ESPN3, it's on ESPNU! /shrug

Don't forget these are young men in the prime of their life and for the most part in the best shape of their lives. Playing one game on 22 hrs rest vs 24 hrs rest isn't going to make a hill of beans difference. Now, having to play your third game in three days vs a team fresh off 5 days rest does matter. Thanks again Swofford.

[thedukelamere]

Thank you, sir! I should point out that Lil' Tony - which really would be his name if I could get my wife to agree to it - has two older brothers, so I know full well what's about to happen. On the bright side, I'm taking paternity leave at the EXACT right time of the year!

Congrats! Not to damper the mood but, speaking from experience, it could be the EXACT worst time of the year, too... A year ago, after our Devils looked like they had turned the corner in winning the ACC tourney, I was convinced that my son and heir, Duke II, being born on the Monday after Selection Sunday was surely the harbinger of title #6... Instead he was treated to the South Carolina debacle and a Cheats Championship. I hope that if Duke doesn't cut down the nets, Lil' Tony gets to see a Hoos title instead!

[OldPhiKap]

7pm game is Wake-Syracuse with winner to play the Heels. Heels beat both by 4 (hosting Wake eons ago, @ Syracuse fairly recently).

Who should I root for? Hoping the answer isn't Boeheim but will hold my nose if I have to and I assume Syracuse is motivated to move onto/over/off the bubble.

[jv001]

Man, I'm about to have a kid. That's tempting just on the off chance to have that much food to put in the freezer.

Congratulations DarkstarWahoo, Treasure every second, every minute, every day with your children. There's no promise of the next day, so hold them close. I'm sorry to put a somber feeling to this post, but some of our posters know what I'm talking about(recent personal experience). God bless.

[gofurman]

does anyone know where there is a bracket for acc tourney that updates pretty quickly (already has BC winning etc) ?

[Tripping William]

does anyone know where there is a bracket for acc tourney that updates pretty quickly (already has BC winning etc) ?

This appears to do the trick: http://www.theacc.com/sports/2018/1/12/2017-18-new-york-life-acc-tournament.aspx (just be sure to click the "Bracket" tab or scroll down far enough).

[PackMan97]

does anyone know where there is a bracket for acc tourney that updates pretty quickly (already has BC winning etc) ?

https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/tournaments/conference/ACC/acc-tournament-bracket

[rsvman]

How so? BC was a 3 point Vegas and KenPom favorite and the higher seed.

You're totally right. I don't know what I was thinking when I posted that. I could've sworn I saw the opposite in the posts just above mine.

I need to get a good night's sleep tonight. Sheesh.

[Tripping William]

Pitt sorta/kinda hanging around, cutting it to 8 in the middle of the second half. I wouldn't mind an OT or two for the Irish, so long as they win & still have enough in the tank to take VPI to three overtimes tomorrow . . . . . :p

[UrinalCake]

Well Pitt is staying in range, down only 8 at the under-12 timeout. I was just hoping they’d keep the deficit under 15 or so for most of the game so that ND couldn’t pull their starters. But they’re actually applying some game pressure. Good for us from a “hope we play an exhausted team” standpoint.

[RPS]

On the bright side, I'm taking paternity leave at the EXACT right time of the year!Maybe next year...THIS (http://fortune.com/2017/03/16/vasectomies-during-march-madness/).

[BD80]

Here’s a somewhat obscure question: now that we’re underway, I’m noticing that tomorrow #5 NC State will play the winner of the game that started at noon, #6 UNC-CHeat play the winner of the 7pm game and #7 VT play the winner of the 2:45 game. This seems off to me. You would think the higher seeded teams would get to play the opponents coming off the least amount of rest. Also, why are there two afternoon games and only one evening game today? Surely more people want to watch games at night.

I would have expected the BC/GT game to be at 9pm, Cuse/WF at 7, and ND/Pitt at noon. Could someone explain this to me?

I am certain TV had something to do with it.

Also, this gives the winners the most rest before their 2nd round game.

One of the many delights of the win over unc, is that it bumped unc all the way to the 6 seed, which would put them into the 9:00 bracket on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. As one pundit noted: the results won't be in the morning paper the next day! How will the whine and cheesers find out what happened to their beloved non-student athletes?

[duke4ever19]

Pitt sorta/kinda hanging around, cutting it to 8 in the middle of the second half. I wouldn't mind an OT or two for the Irish, so long as they win & still have enough in the tank to take VPI to three overtimes tomorrow . . . . . :p

Yes, Pitt is doing enough to keep the Irish starters on the floor. Their guys are playing hard.

Edit: More than enough!

[Tom B.]

Yes, Pitt is doing enough to keep the Irish starters on the floor. Their guys are playing hard.

Edit: More than enough!

Pitt just cut the lead to two points with 48 seconds left. Nail biter.

[devildeac]

When Irish eyes aren't smiling. Yet.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Legitimately bummed for Pitt. That would have been something. (The way I wrote that in my head, those sentences would have rhymed, but I don't want to run afoul of the moderators.)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Notre Dame guts out the win, with a big rebound by Bonzi. His impact on this tournament may be substantial.

I have always liked the kid. Glad to see him back. At least for today and tomorrow.

[BD80]

4 Irish starters averaged 36 minutes. Bonzi played 33.

[CDu]

4 Irish starters averaged 36 minutes. Bonzi played 33.

Yeah, Notre Dame isn’t deep. They will likely be gassed by Thursday. That is if they even get past Va Tech.

[Wander]

Lol at all the talking heads outraged at the suggestion that Notre Dame might not be in the NCAA tournament because the Bonzi injury isn't being properly considered. I hope they do squeak into the tournament, just so I can steal points from everyone in my bracket pools who advances them to the Elite 8.

[UrinalCake]

Pitt playing above themselves and winning would have potentially given VT an easy win tomorrow when Pitt came down to earth. Instead we know it will be a competitive game. So I’m happy for how things turned out, for completely selfish reasons.

Less selfishly, I really wanted for the Pitt players to get a win. Unsurprisingly, they had no idea how to close out a game.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Pitt playing above themselves and winning would have potentially given VT an easy win tomorrow when Pitt came down to earth. Instead we know it will be a competitive game. So I’m happy for how things turned out, for completely selfish reasons. .

"Completely selfish reasons" are the only thing to consider when watching brackets unfold towards your team.....;)

[Saratoga2]

Pitt playing above themselves and winning would have potentially given VT an easy win tomorrow when Pitt came down to earth. Instead we know it will be a competitive game. So I’m happy for how things turned out, for completely selfish reasons.

Less selfishly, I really wanted for the Pitt players to get a win. Unsurprisingly, they had no idea how to close out a game.

When it comes to tournament time, every team is dangerous. Pitt tried really hard and gave ND a tough game. Now ND will have to face a VT team that has more capability than Pitt but also can bee exploited inside. Should be interesting.

[ncexnyc]

I'll take Tech over BC. I think the JLO trio is better than the duo of Bowman and Robinson. As much as I like Robinson, the kid has taken several nasty falls on the same elbow and I'm not sure he's completely healthy.

The Irish should roll and I like the Syracuse backcourt to carry the day for them.

Well JL showed up, but someone forgot to tell the O, as in Okogie they had a noontime game. And this Popovic kid who went for 20 today was the very same player who air balled the free throw during crunch time against Miami.

And the Irish did anything but roll. That was an extremely close game at the end. Were the Irish nervous?

So far two close games, it's a shame there are so many empty seats. If you're going to have teams cry about the tournament always being in Greensboro, then it might be wise for them to make sure their fan base actually comes to the games.

Hopefully, the final game today is as entertaining as the first two were.

[Gooch]

Maybe next year...THIS (http://fortune.com/2017/03/16/vasectomies-during-march-madness/).

My roommate at Duke (‘94) is a urologist in Cape Cod and they offered a free pizza with their March Madness special.

I chose the Masters as my “required rest” event since I figured there was a lower chance of getting overly excited and jumping out of the La-Z-Boy!

[ndkjr70]

Gotta be honest, the whole “the committee should take Bonzie’s injury into consideration” idea is borderline insulting. In what other sport does a team qualify for CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENTION because “oh they would have been better if x player wasn’t injured”. Should Clemson get a 2-seed because they lost a few games when their best players were out? How about last year — should Duke’s losses without Coach K count as real losses? Maybe in hockey the Carolina Hurricanes shouldn’t be so close to the New Jersey Devils because the Devils goalie has been injured two months — so let’s just give them some more points?

If I’m a bubble-team and I see ND squeak into the tournament over me with a weaker resume, I lose my freakin mind.

The sport of basketball involves a ton of LUCK. Health, as every fan here knows, is a HUGE part of that luck. You should be judged on what you’ve done, and there should be no single caveat that trumps “who did you beat, and who did you lose to?”.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Gotta be honest, the whole “the committee should take Bonzie’s injury into consideration” idea is borderline insulting. In what other sport does a team qualify for CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENTION because “oh they would have been better if x player wasn’t injured”. Should Clemson get a 2-seed because they lost a few games when their best players were out? How about last year — should Duke’s losses without Coach K count as real losses? Maybe in hockey the Carolina Hurricanes shouldn’t be so close to the New Jersey Devils because the Devils goalie has been injured two months — so let’s just give them some more points?

If I’m a bubble-team and I see ND squeak into the tournament over me with a weaker resume, I lose my freakin mind.

The sport of basketball involves a ton of LUCK. Health, as every fan here knows, is a HUGE part of that luck. You should be judged on what you’ve done, and there should be no single caveat that trumps “who did you beat, and who did you lose to?”.

You make some great points, but let's consider another situation....and this has happened before....a number 1 type team loses a key player right at end of season, before the tournament. It's a team that's not going to be nearly as good in the NCAAT as they were in the season. How do you seed them?

Some would say hey, it's not fair to penalize that team because they lost the player. And that's a point. But on the other hand, if you still put them as a number 1, then you've unfairly advantaged all the other teams in their bracket because their region's Number 1 is weakened. That is also a point.

Not disagreeing with anything you said....it's just interesting how this "fairness" thing gets moved to the top of the list. The ruling body should not introduce unfairness into a system, nor can they eliminate it happening organically. Makes great interwebs fodder....

[Wander]

Gotta be honest, the whole “the committee should take Bonzie’s injury into consideration” idea is borderline insulting. In what other sport does a team qualify for CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENTION because “oh they would have been better if x player wasn’t injured”. Should Clemson get a 2-seed because they lost a few games when their best players were out? How about last year — should Duke’s losses without Coach K count as real losses? Maybe in hockey the Carolina Hurricanes shouldn’t be so close to the New Jersey Devils because the Devils goalie has been injured two months — so let’s just give them some more points?

If I’m a bubble-team and I see ND squeak into the tournament over me with a weaker resume, I lose my freakin mind.

The sport of basketball involves a ton of LUCK. Health, as every fan here knows, is a HUGE part of that luck. You should be judged on what you’ve done, and there should be no single caveat that trumps “who did you beat, and who did you lose to?”.

Agree, I've always been of this line of thought. I'll add that it makes some pretty weird incentives when you apply the "injury considerations" to suspensions, which many people do...

[WakeDevil]

The committee seeds teams based on the personnel available for the tournament. If ND wins four and slips in, the seeding would be done by evaluating the full team.

[El_Diablo]

Here’s a somewhat obscure question: now that we’re underway, I’m noticing that tomorrow #5 NC State will play the winner of the game that started at noon, #6 UNC-CHeat play the winner of the 7pm game and #7 VT play the winner of the 2:45 game. This seems off to me. You would think the higher seeded teams would get to play the opponents coming off the least amount of rest. Also, why are there two afternoon games and only one evening game today? Surely more people want to watch games at night.

I would have expected the BC/GT game to be at 9pm, Cuse/WF at 7, and ND/Pitt at noon. Could someone explain this to me?

The sessions are based on the games for the top four seeds in the quarterfinals and beyond and scheduled to allow each higher seed to be slightly more rested than its opponent (but not giving anyone a huge turnaround advantage). I.e., the early sessions include the lines of opponents for the #1 and #4 seeds (in that order), and the evening sessions correspond to the #2 seeds and #3 seeds (in that order). For the first two days, UVA's line of potential opponents generally go first (except for Tuesday, since there is no play-in for 8v9), followed by Clemson's line of opponents. Then we move to the other side of the bracket, and Duke's line of opponents play first in the evening session, followed by Miami's line of opponents. Assuming chalk holds throughout, Thursday would be 1v8, 4v5, 2v7, and 3v6 (with each higher seed more rested than its opponent, who played the day before). Then on Friday it would be 1v4 (with 1 slightly more rested than 4) followed by 2v3 (with 2 slightly more rested than 3). Then on Saturday it would be 1v2 (with 1 slightly more rested than 2).

[ndkjr70]

The committee seeds teams based on the personnel available for the tournament. If ND wins four and slips in, the seeding would be done by evaluating the full team.

I don’t think this is true. And if it is true, how far do you think 3-seed Mizzou is going to go, since clearly that’s a top-15 team with MPJ?

I’m joking, but do you see my point? I think judging a team by anything other than wins versus losses is ridiculous — and, frankly, dangerous. A season’s body of work tells a story that has plenty enough information for determining the best teams in the country. If u*NC loses Berry, Pinson and Maye in an ACCG loss to UVA, I think their body of work still indicates that they’re a 2 or 3 seed. Anything past that is making a seed based on - at best - conjecture.

[freshmanjs]

I don’t think this is true. And if it is true, how far do you think 3-seed Mizzou is going to go, since clearly that’s a top-15 team with MPJ?

I’m joking, but do you see my point? I think judging a team by anything other than wins versus losses is ridiculous — and, frankly, dangerous. A season’s body of work tells a story that has plenty enough information for determining the best teams in the country. If u*NC loses Berry, Pinson and Maye in an ACCG loss to UVA, I think their body of work still indicates that they’re a 2 or 3 seed. Anything past that is making a seed based on - at best - conjecture.

Imagine ND goes on a run and wins 2 more games this week. If that team is seeded as a #12, it is grossly unfair to the #5 they are playing.

[UrinalCake]

My roommate at Duke (‘94) is a urologist in Cape Cod and they offered a free pizza with their March Madness special

“Get A Snip, Before The Chip!”

[UrinalCake]

The sessions are based on the games for the top four seeds in the quarterfinals and beyond and scheduled to allow each higher seed to be slightly more rested than its opponent (but not giving anyone a huge turnaround advantage).

That makes sense, thanks for the explanation!

[OldPhiKap]

My roommate at Duke (‘94) is a urologist in Cape Cod and they offered a free pizza with their March Madness special.



Wouldn’t that be a free pissa? I mean, ‘cause that’s how they pronounce it near Boston and all.

[WakeDevil]

Imagine ND goes on a run and wins 2 more games this week. If that team is seeded as a #12, it is grossly unfair to the #5 they are playing.

You and I understand something the other person does not.

Remember around 2000 when Cincinnati was great but lost a player? That team got a two based on who it had. Your body of work and your available personnel are two different things.

[BandAlum83]

Dan Dackich is doing the ACC Tournament?? Ugh.

Not if you live in ACC country and don't have to tune in ESPN!

[Rich]

You and I understand something the other person does not.

Remember around 2000 when Cincinnati was great but lost Kenyon Martin? That team got a two based on who it had. Your body of work and your available personnel are two different things.

FIFY

[UrinalCake]

So which team presents a greater threat to the CHeats - Wake or Syracuse? They are two completely opposite teams. Syracuse almost beat them a couple weeks ago, they pretty much force UNC to rely on the 3. Battle can score but hasn’t been great lately. Wake has a pretty good offense and can run some bigs down low, but is bad defensively. I think I’ll be rooting for the Orange.

[Acymetric]

Imagine ND goes on a run and wins 2 more games this week. If that team is seeded as a #12, it is grossly unfair to the #5 they are playing.

Exactly. This isn't exactly easy to do, but in my opinion there is some threshold (maybe the top 4 seeds in each region) where seeding should be based almost entirely on merit (results based stats, how good is your resume, quality of wins/losses). Use predictive metrics as more of a tiebreaker for these seeds when teams are similar.

After that point, use results based metrics to determine the field (who has earned it), but focus much more on predictive metrics when seeding this group to avoid screwing a team that earned a top seed with a high quality opponent who (for any number of reasons) does not have the "resume" and ends up underseeded.

Applying this fairly and consistently would be difficult, but I do think it is the correct approach.

As far as the complaints about factoring in injuries, a couple thoughts.

1) Suspensions should not count. Anyone who argues they should is wrong, and if that's how the committee sees it they're wrong too.

2) It is only fair to consider take injuries into account if the team is "in the discussion" without considering them.

A team that is solidly out is out injury or no. But Notre Dame isn't actually THAT far away. They probably don't make it without beating Duke, but they might make it as long as they win tomorrow and I would have no problem with it. If (god forbid) they should beat us on Thursday they should be in without question.

[Acymetric]

So which team presents a greater threat to the CHeats - Wake or Syracuse? They are two completely opposite teams. Syracuse almost beat them a couple weeks ago, they pretty much force UNC to rely on the 3. Battle can score but hasn’t been great lately. Wake has a pretty good offense and can run some bigs down low, but is bad defensively. I think I’ll be rooting for the Orange.

Syracuse hands down. But unlike most, in the ACC tournament I don't actively root for uNC to lose early going in. Now watching the game I will be pulling for 'Cuse/Wake (I can't actually pull for Carolina in real time), but in a broader, big picture sense I want Carolina to win because I always want that 3rd shot at them.

[UrinalCake]

I will be pulling for 'Cuse/Wake (I can't actually pull for Carolina in real time), but in a broader, big picture sense I want Carolina to win because I always want that 3rd shot at them.

Yeah, I can never root for the CHeats but it would definitely help our resume more to pick up another win against them versus one of the other two teams. Of course, there is no guarantee that we would win.

I’m glad Syracuse won, not just because they pose a greater threat to the CHeats but also because I want the ACC to get as many teams in to the tourney as possible, and Wake had no shot.

[devildeac]

Syracuse hands down. But unlike most, in the ACC tournament I don't actively root for uNC to lose early going in. Now watching the game I will be pulling for 'Cuse/Wake (I can't actually pull for Carolina in real time), but in a broader, big picture sense I want Carolina to win because I always want that 3rd shot at them.

Never. Ever. 8-20 was too good for them.

[Acymetric]

Never. Ever. 8-20 was too good for them.

Three games against Carolina is like Christmas in July. I don't root for them...I would just like a chance to see them again ;)

[cptnflash]

Any talk of rooting for a UNC victory under any circumstances is ridiculous. They should lose every game they play by 5000 points. Secondarily, besting Syracuse after they beat UNC would be a quadrant 1 win, so in the eyes of the committee those outcomes are basically equivalent. Obviously that makes no sense, but that’s the world we live in (for now).

[Acymetric]

Nobody has said they would root for them (I explicitly said I would be pulling against them when I watch the game tomorrow). But if you don't understand that losing to Duke is the worst possible ACC tourney outcome for uNC (regardless of round), and that beating uNC in the ACC tournament (regardless of round) is the second best possible outcome for Duke other than winning the whole damn thing (ideally we do both) then I don't know what to tell you. You guys don't want anything good to happen to Carolina, which is admirable. I take it a step further, I want the worst possible thing to happen to them. If that requires a Carolina win to set it up so be it (I won't root for it actively, but I'll accept it willingly).

I would just like to add that my phone has apparently learned to autocorrect "UNC" (typed with any capitalization) to uNC and that pretty much makes my day.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

The Raleigh Nuisance Disturber felt the need to run an article today on the 12-10 game from 1968 ACCT.......which is like one of my first little boy fuzzy memories of being a Duke fan.

In case anyone wants to read it (I did not) http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/article203685514.html

[KnightDevil]

Snow day today. ☃️ Bring on the games!

[pfrduke]

Updated slate for Wednesday:

[36]Florida State (+1) vs. [34]Louisville (12:00, ESPN)
[41]NC State (-3) vs. [76]Boston College (2:00, ESPN)
[30]Virginia Tech (-1) vs. [32]Notre Dame (7:00, ESPN2)
[8]UNC (-7) vs. [51]Syracuse (9:00, ESPN2)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Updated slate for Wednesday:

[36]Florida State (+1) vs. [34]Louisville (12:00, ESPN)
[41]NC State (-3) vs. [76]Boston College (2:00, ESPN)
[30]Virginia Tech (-1) vs. [32]Notre Dame (7:00, ESPN2)
[8]UNC (-7) vs. [51]Syracuse (9:00, ESPN2)

These all look like good games. This is the meat and potatoes - there's at least one team in each of these games that NEEDS a win for their resume. Should be a good day of basketball.

[BandAlum83]

When do/did the double bye teams travel to NY? Will today's snow disrupt travel plans? Do the teams stay in Brooklyn near the arena?

[OldPhiKap]

Updated slate for Wednesday:

[36]Florida State (+1) vs. [34]Louisville (12:00, ESPN)
[41]NC State (-3) vs. [76]Boston College (2:00, ESPN)
[30]Virginia Tech (-1) vs. [32]Notre Dame (7:00, ESPN2)
[8]UNC (-7) vs. [51]Syracuse (9:00, ESPN2)

Guess I'm pulling for:

FSU -- the ghost of Pervis Ellison still haunts me.
State -- obviously
ND -- rather play them on their third game, plus would like to see Bonzie and Mike Brey in the dance.
Meteor -- again, obviously. (Will not watch)

[ndkjr70]

When do/did the double bye teams travel to NY? Will today's snow disrupt travel plans? Do the teams stay in Brooklyn near the arena?

Based on player’s snapchats, Duke traveled last night.

Last year, Coach K took the team to the 9/11 memorial. I know that because I worked 2 blocks from the 9/11 memorial, and got a text from my coworker “hey dude Duke is outside right now taking pictures with fans” while I was in a meeting.

I’m not bitter you’re bitter.

[wobatus]

We seem to fare well against the Cheats in neutral site games (I can't remember the last time we lost to them in the ACCs, though I'm sure it's more recent than my memory indicates.)

1998.

Since then Duke won in 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2011, 2017.

[UrinalCake]

y)I would just like to add that my phone has apparently learned to autocorrect "UNC" (typed with any capitalization) to uNC and that pretty much makes my day.

Hah, mine autocorrects to “UNC-CHeat” which is also awesome.

In regards to another poster’s comment about Syracuse and UNC-CHeat both being Q1 wins, not all Q1 wins are created equal. The Committee does break them down further into smaller groupings, plus there is the effect on the RPI. Beating the CHeats would help us more than beating the Orange. But I still want UNC to lose.

[SavDukeGrad]

When do/did the double bye teams travel to NY? Will today's snow disrupt travel plans? Do the teams stay in Brooklyn near the arena?

According to the team Instagram, they traveled late yesterday.

We're not going to the tournament this year (and didn't attend last year either unfortunately), but IIRC the team hotel is in Battery Park.

[wobatus]

1998.

Since then Duke won in 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2011, 2017.


Neutral site records since the beginning of the ACC. Duke-UNC

0-6. Dixie Classic
3-5 Big Four Tournament
0-1 NIT
13-8 ACC Tournament

Duke has won 10 of 13 ACC Tournament meetings since 1980 and hasn’t lost one in 20 years. If my review of the head to head records at Sports Reference is accurate.

[Troublemaker]

Nobody has said they would root for them (I explicitly said I would be pulling against them when I watch the game tomorrow). But if you don't understand that losing to Duke is the worst possible ACC tourney outcome for uNC (regardless of round), and that beating uNC in the ACC tournament (regardless of round) is the second best possible outcome for Duke other than winning the whole damn thing (ideally we do both) then I don't know what to tell you. You guys don't want anything good to happen to Carolina, which is admirable. I take it a step further, I want the worst possible thing to happen to them. If that requires a Carolina win to set it up so be it (I won't root for it actively, but I'll accept it willingly).

All you say is true, but it has to be balanced against the fact that the worst possible outcome for Duke is losing to UNC as well.

It just comes down to probability, i.e. how much better is Duke than UNC? For example, if you feel like Duke only has a 60/40 edge, I would root against the matchup happening, especially since the 40% outcome hurts more than the 60% outcome feels good. At some point the math works, though. If we have a 90% chance of winning, I probably wouldn't mind seeing the matchup take place, for example.

[MChambers]

All you say is true, but it has to be balanced against the fact that the worst possible outcome for Duke is losing to UNC as well.

It just comes down to probability, i.e. how much better is Duke than UNC? For example, if you feel like Duke only has a 60/40 edge, I would root against the matchup happening, especially since the 40% outcome hurts more than the 60% outcome feels good. At some point the math works, though. If we have a 90% chance of winning, I probably wouldn't mind seeing the matchup take place, for example.

I always feel that Duke has a 95% chance of winning!

[The Gordog]

Nobody has said they would root for them (I explicitly said I would be pulling against them when I watch the game tomorrow). But if you don't understand that losing to Duke is the worst possible ACC tourney outcome for uNC (regardless of round), and that beating uNC in the ACC tournament (regardless of round) is the second best possible outcome for Duke other than winning the whole damn thing (ideally we do both) then I don't know what to tell you. You guys don't want anything good to happen to Carolina, which is admirable. I take it a step further, I want the worst possible thing to happen to them. If that requires a Carolina win to set it up so be it (I won't root for it actively, but I'll accept it willingly).

I would just like to add that my phone has apparently learned to autocorrect "UNC" (typed with any capitalization) to uNC and that pretty much makes my day.

This is flawed logic. The worst possible outcome for them is to cease to exist. Short of that the worst possible thing for them is to be irrelevant. So bad that no store in the state bothers to carry their merchandise. This is my wish, and for it to come true they must lose every game in every sport. They are not our rival because we compete against other Universities, which uNC is not.

[PackMan97]

This is flawed logic. The worst possible outcome for them is to cease to exist. Short of that the worst possible thing for them is to be irrelevant. So bad that no store in the state bothers to carry their merchandise. This is my wish, and for it to come true they must lose every game in every sport. They are not our rival because we compete against other Universities, which uNC is not.

I hope Carolina enjoys being the third best team in the Triangle. That's a start :)

[OldPhiKap]

If Acy wants a chance to beat the heels again, I can't say that's wrong.

[UrinalCake]

I hope Carolina enjoys being the third best team in the Triangle. That's a start :)

Keep in mind that Wes Miller's UNC-G team beat Wofford in their conference tournament, something the CHeats could not manage to do. Third place might be generous!

[BD80]

Guess I'm pulling for:

...
Meteor -- again, obviously. (Will not watch)

Come on ... Boeheim is a close friend of Coach K and taught him to embrace the zone that we are now using.

Further, there are 12 ACC teams in the vicinity of the arena, and some coaches will be there scouting the game - a meteor strike could take them all.

Further still, we would lose a bunch of Cuse fans, more than a few Duke fans, and alas, too few unc fans to compensate for the loss of good people.

Think man, think! How about a sink hole opening directly beneath the unc bench seconds before the introductions? A pinpoint lightning strike?

Or the current storm turns into Snowmageddon and drops a massive snowball onto the unc bench (kinda like a meteor strike without the collateral damage).

[PackMan97]

Keep in mind that Wes Miller's UNC-G team beat Wofford in their conference tournament, something the CHeats could not manage to do. Third place might be generous!

I did limit it to the Triangle, not the Triad.

I just realized, this also includes football and women's basketball, in which the Heels are definitely behind State and Duke. Times are changing.

[PackMan97]

Come on ... Boeheim is a close friend of Coach K and taught him to embrace the zone that we are now using.

Further, there are 12 ACC teams in the vicinity of the arena, and some coaches will be there scouting the game - a meteor strike could take them all.

Further still, we would lose a bunch of Cuse fans, more than a few Duke fans, and alas, too few unc fans to compensate for the loss of good people.

Think man, think! How about a sink hole opening directly beneath the unc bench seconds before the introductions? A pinpoint lightning strike?

Or the current storm turns into Snowmageddon and drops a massive snowball onto the unc bench (kinda like a meteor strike without the collateral damage).

Or we could just hope that Syracuse beats Carolina by 50 points and in the closing minuts Roy Williams and Boheim get into fistacuffs and a bench clearing brawl ends up with both teams having to miss the NCAA.

[OldPhiKap]

Come on ... Boeheim is a close friend of Coach K and taught him to embrace the zone that we are now using.

Further, there are 12 ACC teams in the vicinity of the arena, and some coaches will be there scouting the game - a meteor strike could take them all.

Further still, we would lose a bunch of Cuse fans, more than a few Duke fans, and alas, too few unc fans to compensate for the loss of good people.

Think man, think! How about a sink hole opening directly beneath the unc bench seconds before the introductions? A pinpoint lightning strike?

Or the current storm turns into Snowmageddon and drops a massive snowball onto the unc bench (kinda like a meteor strike without the collateral damage).

I'm glad that K likes Jimmy B, because I dislike him pretty intensely. And that goes back to the old Big East days.

I am somewhat concerned about the collateral damage though, you raise a good point. Perhaps a better wish is for a six overtime game that does not end until one in the morning, with Syracuse ultimately prevailing in front of about 100 fans who stayed to watch the brickfest.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Having said all this, what I would like for a perfect UNC season would be something, say, 36-4. With losses home and away to Duke by 30, loss to Duke in the ACC tournament by 40, and a loss in the final to Duke by 80.

Then, in the offseason, UNC vacates the other 36 "wins."

[BD80]

I'm glad that K likes Jimmy B, because I dislike him pretty intensely. And that goes back to the old Big East days.

I am somewhat concerned about the collateral damage though, you raise a good point. Perhaps a better wish is for a six overtime game that does not end until one in the morning, with Syracuse ultimately prevailing in front of about 100 fans who stayed to watch the brickfest.

I retract my concerns. I turned on the UL/FSU game.

A meteor strike would wipe out the teams, the referees, Dakich ... and about a dozen spectators. I call that acceptable collateral damage.

[rsvman]

Having said all this, what I would like for a perfect UNC season would be something, say, 36-4. With losses home and away to Duke by 30, loss to Duke in the ACC tournament by 40, and a loss in the final to Duke by 80.

Then, in the offseason, UNC vacates the other 36 "wins."

I think the thing that would hurt the most is if we played them for the National Championship. And it's a tough, back-and-forth game with multiple ties and lead changes, but Grayson makes a 3-pointer with about 8 seconds left to give us a 2-point lead.

They go down and get the ball to Berry for a contested 3 that swishes right through, nothing but net, apparently handing them back-to-back championships! Everybody goes crazy, the confetti is falling and they are all hugging each other in a pile on the floor after they tackle Berry. "Carolina wins! Carolina wins! Carolina wins an historic championship, triumphing over its arch-rival Duke in the final!" says Jim Nance over all the screaming.

But then a slow-motion instant replay shows that the ball was still touching the very tip of Berry's finger as the buzzer sounded, meaning the basket doesn't count, and therefore Duke wins by 2.

That would be killer!

[Owen Meany]

So which team presents a greater threat to the CHeats - Wake or Syracuse? They are two completely opposite teams. Syracuse almost beat them a couple weeks ago, they pretty much force UNC to rely on the 3. Battle can score but hasn’t been great lately. Wake has a pretty good offense and can run some bigs down low, but is bad defensively. I think I’ll be rooting for the Orange.

Hopefully unjustified paranoia on my part, but I worry that facing Syracuse's zone will help prepare UNC for a rematch with Duke, should they both advance.


I really looked forward to Coach K experimenting with a zone given Duke's length this year, to give team's a different look to prepare for and to throw them off their rhythm during a game. But now that Duke has become a full time zone team I worry that, as a game progresses, teams become more comfortable and are better able to find spots in the zone. I am aware that advanced stats seem to show that this zone is for real, and UNC certainly didn't become more efficient in the second half versus the zone. But I still wish UNC wasn't able to work on their zone offense versus Syracuse. Usually, when I worry about match ups ahead of time, they never occur - so hopefully UNC doesn't make it that far.

One thing I do look forward to with the zone is the prospect of fresher legs and (hopefully) less foul trouble. Both could help significantly in a tournament environment, particularly for a coach that likes to shorten his rotation when the stakes are high.

[BD80]

I think the thing that would hurt the most is if we played them for the National Championship. And it's a tough, back-and-forth game with multiple ties and lead changes, but Grayson makes a 3-pointer with about 8 seconds left to give us a 2-point lead.

They go down and get the ball to Berry for a contested 3 that swishes right through, nothing but net, apparently handing them back-to-back championships! Everybody goes crazy, the confetti is falling and they are all hugging each other in a pile on the floor after they tackle Berry. "Carolina wins! Carolina wins! Carolina wins an historic championship, triumphing over its arch-rival Duke in the final!" says Jim Nance over all the screaming.

But then a slow-motion instant replay shows that the ball was still touching the very tip of Berry's finger as the buzzer sounded, meaning the basket doesn't count, and therefore Duke wins by 2.

That would be killer!

It would likely kill me ...

[ndkjr70]

I think the thing that would hurt the most is if we played them for the National Championship. And it's a tough, back-and-forth game with multiple ties and lead changes, but Grayson makes a 3-pointer with about 8 seconds left to give us a 2-point lead.

They go down and get the ball to Berry for a contested 3 that swishes right through, nothing but net, apparently handing them back-to-back championships! Everybody goes crazy, the confetti is falling and they are all hugging each other in a pile on the floor after they tackle Berry. "Carolina wins! Carolina wins! Carolina wins an historic championship, triumphing over its arch-rival Duke in the final!" says Jim Nance over all the screaming.

But then a slow-motion instant replay shows that the ball was still touching the very tip of Berry's finger as the buzzer sounded, meaning the basket doesn't count, and therefore Duke wins by 2.

That would be killer!

*slowly pulls gun out of mouth*

[IrishDevil]

I think the thing that would hurt the most is if we played them for the National Championship. And it's a tough, back-and-forth game with multiple ties and lead changes, but Grayson makes a 3-pointer with about 8 seconds left to give us a 2-point lead.

They go down and get the ball to Berry for a contested 3 that swishes right through, nothing but net, apparently handing them back-to-back championships! Everybody goes crazy, the confetti is falling and they are all hugging each other in a pile on the floor after they tackle Berry. "Carolina wins! Carolina wins! Carolina wins an historic championship, triumphing over its arch-rival Duke in the final!" says Jim Nance over all the screaming.

But then a slow-motion instant replay shows that the ball was still touching the very tip of Berry's finger as the buzzer sounded, meaning the basket doesn't count, and therefore Duke wins by 2.

That would be killer!


It would likely kill me ...

Yeah, that sounds like torture for both fan bases, except it ends with Duke fans staying happy and "U"NC fans being bitter and complaining.

IF the two teams meeting in the championship is the scenario, then I think all players healthy, equal rest, good reffing all resulting in Duke absolutely destroying "U"NC in such a way that makes 82-50 look like a tight game would be worst case for the cheaters.

I think it might be most painful for them, however, were they relegated to the mediocrity of being on the bubble, needing a run in the ACCT to make the NCAAs, and forced to watch as Duke drubs them like described above to complete a 3-game season sweep and doom them to miss the big dance.

[JasonEvans]

So, FSU was leading Louisville 17-14 with just under 12 minutes to go in the first half. Over those next 12 minutes, Louisville outscored the Noles 27-5. Ouch! Maybe Louisville does want to make the NCAA tourney.

[rsvman]

So, FSU was leading Louisville 17-14 with just under 12 minutes to go in the first half. Over those next 12 minutes, Louisville outscored the Noles 27-5. Ouch! Maybe Louisville does want to make the NCAA tourney.

Yep. Up 19 at the half. Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark.

[UrinalCake]

Louisville was mighty impressive in that first half. They've got talent. If they can hold on and win, tomorrow they'll be facing a UVA team that has basically nothing to play for - they could lose and would likely still be the overall #1 seed. Possible deep run in the ACCT for the Cards.

[Rich]

Louisville was mighty impressive in that first half. They've got talent. If they can hold on and win, tomorrow they'll be facing a UVA team that has basically nothing to play for - they could lose and would likely still be the overall #1 seed. Possible deep run in the ACCT for the Cards.

Revenge for possibly the most embarrassing loss this season also a big motivator for the Cards.

[Tom B.]

Revenge for possibly the most embarrassing loss this season also a big motivator for the Cards.

Dang, Louisville is smoking Florida State. Now up by 25 (52-27) with 15 minutes and change left in the game.

[Troublemaker]

Louisville was mighty impressive in that first half. They've got talent. If they can hold on and win, tomorrow they'll be facing a UVA team that has basically nothing to play for - they could lose and would likely still be the overall #1 seed. Possible deep run in the ACCT for the Cards.

I know what you're saying, but UVA has an ACC championship to play for. Ever since they leveled up as a program a few years ago, they've won a few regular season titles (in dominant fashion) but have only 1 ACC championship so far (at our expense, unfortunately). Most notably, these seniors (Hall, Wilkins) haven't won an ACC championship.

Louisville may beat UVA tomorrow but I doubt it'll be due to a flat UVA team.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Most notably, these seniors (Hall, Wilkins) haven't won an ACC championship.
Hall technically has, although he was redshirting at the time. (pushes glasses up bridge of nose)

[camion]

And now it's down to 10 pts 76-66 with 4 minutes to go.

[Truth&Justise]

And now it's down to 10 pts 76-66 with 4 minutes to go.

Louisville protecting a late lead? What could possibly go wrong??

[duke4ever19]

And now it's down to 10 pts 76-66 with 4 minutes to go.

I have this game on in the background while working. It was a huge lead and I turn around and it's a 8 point game.

Are they going to choke again?

[DarkstarWahoo]

Six points down, 15 seconds left. In other words, right where FSU wants them!

[duke4ever19]

They held on.

Louisville is the type of team to struggle closing out games, have lots of outside noise about the program, have an iffy head coach with some saying he can't handle leading a major program, and then suddenly make an Elite 8, ruining everyone's brackets.

[Truth&Justise]

Louisville hangs on to win, 82-74. Another win that can help them inch closer to the tournament field, while not damaging enough to FSU to knock them out. Not a bad result.

Now Louisville gets a chance for revenge against UVA.

[camion]

Louisville hangs on to win, 82-74. Another win that can help them inch closer to the tournament field, while not damaging enough to FSU to knock them out. Not a bad result.

Now Louisville gets a chance for revenge against UVA.

UVA-Louisville should be interesting.

Against UVA being down 10 is really like being down 20.
Against Louisville being down 10 is like being ahead 10.
:eek:

[OldPhiKap]

Against UVA being down 10 is really like being down 20.
Against Louisville being down 10 is like being ahead 10.
:eek:

For Louisville, the ceiling really is the floor.

[Bob Green]

It didn't take long for BC to open up a 10 point lead on N.C. State. The Wolfpack better decide to play defense or this one will slip away quickly.

[OldPhiKap]

It didn't take long for BC to open up a 10 point lead on N.C. State. The Wolfpack better decide to play defense or this one will slip away quickly.

It seems to me that teams who have already played a game usually come out stronger because they already have a game and win under their belts.

It also seems to me that these teams tend to start fading after half-time.


Not sure if that's what is going on -- not watching the game -- but I have seen that pattern a lot.

[House P]

I’m glad Syracuse won, not just because they pose a greater threat to the CHeats but also because I want the ACC to get as many teams in to the tourney as possible

Any chance that Jim Boeheim was so excited that the ACC tournament wasn't being held in Greensboro that his primary goal for the ACC regular season was putting his team in position to potentially play 5 straight games in NY?

If so, perhaps Jim deserved a few votes for ACC Coach of the Year. :)


For what it is worth, I will be perfectly OK with him getting 4/5 of the way towards this goal.

[Bob Green]

BC up 14 points at the half, 45-31. State better get their act together in a hurry.

[-jk]

I think the thing that would hurt the most is if we played them for the National Championship. And it's a tough, back-and-forth game with multiple ties and lead changes, but Grayson makes a 3-pointer with about 8 seconds left to give us a 2-point lead.

They go down and get the ball to Berry for a contested 3 that swishes right through, nothing but net, apparently handing them back-to-back championships! Everybody goes crazy, the confetti is falling and they are all hugging each other in a pile on the floor after they tackle Berry. "Carolina wins! Carolina wins! Carolina wins an historic championship, triumphing over its arch-rival Duke in the final!" says Jim Nance over all the screaming.

But then a slow-motion instant replay shows that the ball was still touching the very tip of Berry's finger as the buzzer sounded, meaning the basket doesn't count, and therefore Duke wins by 2.

That would be killer!

Killer? Yeah, I'd be dead without a (probably tipsy) cardiologist handy.

-jk

[Bob Green]

At the under 8 minutes timeout, State has cut their deficit to 10: BC 69, NCSU 59. Will the Eagles legs hold up? State is pressing full court.

[El_Diablo]

Will the Eagles legs hold up?

Not looking like it...the lead is down to 2 with 3:28 remaining. NC State has been scoring on pretty much every possession.

[Truth&Justise]

It seems to me that teams who have already played a game usually come out stronger because they already have a game and win under their belts.

It also seems to me that these teams tend to start fading after half-time.


Not sure if that's what is going on -- not watching the game -- but I have seen that pattern a lot.

Holding true so far, BC's big lead has been trimmed to two with four minutes left.

[Bob Green]

State roars back and then self-destructs with a critical turnover followed by calling a timeout when they did not have one. BC wins 91-87.

I thought the 12-5 upset was an NCAAT thing.

[ChillinDuke]

State roars back and then self-destructs with a critical turnover followed by calling a timeout when they did not have one. BC wins 91-87.

I thought the 12-5 upset was an NCAAT thing.

Does BC have to win the ACCT to make the tourney? Or can they beat Clemson and UVA and get in?

- Chillin

[CDu]

Does BC have to win the ACCT to make the tourney? Or can they beat Clemson and UVA and get in?

- Chillin

They have to win the tourney. Can’t finish 12th in your conference and get an at large bid.

[Tripping William]

State roars back and then self-destructs with a critical turnover followed by calling a timeout when they did not have one. BC wins 91-87.

I thought the 12-5 upset was an NCAAT thing.

Ghost of Chris Webber. Wow.

[tux]

I know they've had a pretty rough season, but BC is fun to watch.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Unfortunately, Keats has a lot of history of State choking late in games to overcome...good luck with that.

[DarkstarWahoo]

I know they've had a pretty rough season, but BC is fun to watch.

They're going to be a problem next year. Almost everyone should be coming back.

[devildeac]

Killer? Yeah, I'd be dead without a (probably tipsy) cardiologist handy.

-jk

I'd be available but not sure you'd want me available :rolleyes:.

I'd likely be attending to my own abnormal cardiac rhythms. :o

[DangerDevil]

State roars back and then self-destructs with a critical turnover followed by calling a timeout when they did not have one. BC wins 91-87.

I thought the 12-5 upset was an NCAAT thing.

I don't understand the rush to call a timeout following a made basket with less than a minute to play since the clock stops. I get wanting to set up the defense but don't think it is that critical especially if you are going to foul. I think the timeout would be much more beneficial to help advance the ball up the court (i.e. a long pass an immediate timeout to the set up an offensive play from your end of,the court), but that doesn't seem to be the general end of game usage of timeouts.

[Truth&Justise]

State's comeback kept things close, and Jerome Robinson scored 7 in the final minute and a half. That will help in the race against Bagley for ACC scoring title.

[CDu]

Oh the irony: State has the ball down 2with 13 seconds left, and one timeout. Instead of just running offense, they call their last timeout. Then, on the inbounds, they fail to run any sort of action to get the ball in bounds, and turn it over instead. They foul, BC hits two. Johnson drives the length of the court for a layup, and... inexplicably calls timeout. A timeout they don't have. Technical foul, ballgame over.

I get the desire to draw up a play there, but WOW did that timeout with 13 seconds to go prove costly. They were rolling offensively at that point. Probably best to just let them play it and not let BC get a defensive strategy.

Tough break for State. Hopefully it doesn't cost them a bid.

[devildeac]

I don't understand the rush to call a timeout following a made basket with less than a minute to play since the clock stops. I get wanting to set up the defense but don't think it is that critical especially if you are going to foul. I think the timeout would be much more beneficial to help advance the ball up the court (i.e. a long pass an immediate timeout to the set up an offensive play from your end of,the court), but that doesn't seem to be the general end of game usage of timeouts.

NCSU wanted to see if they could do something more stupid than Loovil last week :rolleyes:

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Oh the irony: State has the ball down 2with 13 seconds left, and one timeout. Instead of just running offense, they call their last timeout. Then, on the inbounds, they fail to run any sort of action to get the ball in bounds, and turn it over instead. They foul, BC hits two. Johnson drives the length of the court for a layup, and... inexplicably calls timeout. A timeout they don't have. Technical foul, ballgame over.

I get the desire to draw up a play there, but WOW did that timeout with 13 seconds to go prove costly. They were rolling offensively at that point. Probably best to just let them play it and not let BC get a defensive strategy.

Tough break for State. Hopefully it doesn't cost them a bid.

They could ask Roy for a spare time out, he has plenty :)

[dukelifer]

Oh the irony: State has the ball down 2with 13 seconds left, and one timeout. Instead of just running offense, they call their last timeout. Then, on the inbounds, they fail to run any sort of action to get the ball in bounds, and turn it over instead. They foul, BC hits two. Johnson drives the length of the court for a layup, and... inexplicably calls timeout. A timeout they don't have. Technical foul, ballgame over.

I get the desire to draw up a play there, but WOW did that timeout with 13 seconds to go prove costly. They were rolling offensively at that point. Probably best to just let them play it and not let BC get a defensive strategy.

Tough break for State. Hopefully it doesn't cost them a bid.
They may have done enough but certainly did not help themselves there.

[-jk]

They may have done enough but certainly did not help themselves there.

But they've given the committee an easy out...

(Again)

-jk

[BandAlum83]

They could ask Roy for a spare time out, he has plenty :)

He's already redeemed all of his for Krystal burgers

[PackMan97]

NCSU wanted to see if they could do something more stupid than Loovil last week :rolleyes:

Missing 7 free throws in a row cost us the game.

Not worried at all about the NCAAT. This just cost us a shot at a better seed. But frankly not much difference between a 7 and 10 or 6 and 11. Both are preferred over an 8/9.

[OldPhiKap]

Missing 7 free throws in a row cost us the game.

Not worried at all about the NCAAT. This just cost us a shot at a better seed. But frankly not much difference between a 7 and 10 or 6 and 11. Both are preferred over an 8/9.

Yeah, I think State is in but has put itself on the visiting team side of the opener. 10 or 11 seed sounds right.

I think Syracuse and ND are the only real bubble teams, and right now they are likely on the outside looking in. Both could make a statement tonight though -- ND beating VT and a quick little winning streak now that Bonzie is back may get them in, and an Orange win over the Heels would certainly make a good case too.

[duke4ever19]

Yeah, I think State is in but has put itself on the visiting team side of the opener. 10 or 11 seed sounds right.

I think Syracuse and ND are the only real bubble teams, and right now they are likely on the outside looking in. Both could make a statement tonight though -- ND beating VT and a quick little winning streak now that Bonzie is back may get them in, and an Orange win over the Heels would certainly make a good case too.

Are most people here hoping for a Notre Dame vs Duke matchup with ND having played two games in two days, but desperate for a NCAA Tournament berth, or Va Tech after one game? Does Notre Dame get in with a win tonight and a loss vs Duke, or do they need to beat us to really feel good about their chances of getting in?

I'm not sure which matchup I want to see on Thursday.

[kako]

Not worried at all about the NCAAT. This just cost us a shot at a better seed. But frankly not much difference between a 7 and 10 or 6 and 11. Both are preferred over an 8/9.

Agreed. 11 wins in conference, 5 Q1 wins. The Pack is in. It's just about seeding, which my WAG is a 10 seed. But can NCSU stay in the East or get shipped out West? That's the better question.

[MChambers]

Interesting article on Bennett: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/tony-bennett-and-virginia-hoops-arent-for-everyone-but-its-okay-to-be-different/2018/03/07/0e26cf62-2175-11e8-94da-ebf9d112159c_story.html?utm_term=.d82158e81a17

Makes me like him even more.

No explanation of why he left his heart in San Francisco. Maybe it happened on a Charlotte Hornets road trip?

[kako]

Are most people here hoping for a Notre Dame vs Duke matchup with ND having played two games in two days, but desperate for a NCAA Tournament berth, or Va Tech after one game? Does Notre Dame get in with a win tonight and a loss vs Duke, or do they need to beat us to really feel good about their chances of getting in?


IMO Notre Dame needs to beat Duke to even have a chance of getting in. I like Wells, but the Bonzie thing is being overplayed. They only have 2 Q1 wins, one of which was without him. They had Q3 losses *with* him. And since he's been back, their wins are from beating Pitt twice, which is underwhelming... and less so since they escaped with the win yesterday. If they had beaten UVA, it would be a different conversation... but it's not. A win today and vs. Duke gives them 4 Q1 wins, which then puts them in the conversation. But even then depending on other bubble teams, they still may need to win it all to get in.

I'm fine playing ND. I'm fine playing VaTech. Either way, we should win. I'm just glad we're the 2 seed so there's no looking ahead to Friday's game. Root for game misconducts and suspensions for one game!:p

[OldPhiKap]

Are most people here hoping for a Notre Dame vs Duke matchup with ND having played two games in two days, but desperate for a NCAA Tournament berth, or Va Tech after one game? Does Notre Dame get in with a win tonight and a loss vs Duke, or do they need to beat us to really feel good about their chances of getting in?

I'm not sure which matchup I want to see on Thursday.

I would like to play a tired ND. And I would like our yungun’s to play Bonzie because this is the last tournament where you can take a hard lesson if one is coming.

[Bob Green]

I like Wells, but the Bonzie thing is being overplayed.

Colson.

[UrinalCake]

I’m with OPk, I’d much rather play ND. Yes they have had success against us in recent years but this is not the same team even with Bonzie and they will be tired. VT just beat us a week ago and showed they have a pretty effective formula for slowing down our offense. Plus they shoot the three well; they are a tough matchup.

[curtis325]

10 minutes in and Bonzie looks gassed.

[CDu]

10 minutes in and Bonzie looks gassed.

Yeah, the guy was out for months. He can’t really be expected to be ready for back to backs. Would definitely prefer Notre Dame to find a way to win, as I can’t imagine he would have anything left tomorrow.

[duke4ever19]

I’m with OPk, I’d much rather play ND. Yes they have had success against us in recent years but this is not the same team even with Bonzie and they will be tired. VT just beat us a week ago and showed they have a pretty effective formula for slowing down our offense. Plus they shoot the three well; they are a tough matchup.


10 minutes in and Bonzie looks gassed.


Yeah, I'm thinking Notre Dame is the best matchup. My only concern with ND is Colson's ability to hit those mid-range shots against our zone.

Colson is definitely sucking wind.

[richardjackson199]

Yeah, the guy was out for months. He can’t really be expected to be ready for back to backs. Would definitely prefer Notre Dame to find a way to win, as I can’t imagine he would have anything left tomorrow.

And some couldn't imagine us winning 4 games in a row last year against a fresher Notre Dame. It had never even been done. :cool:

Go Va Tech

(I don't think we want a Notre Dame team who would make the NCAA tourney with 1 win over us. We have intangible payback factor vs Va Tech, and honestly I think we match up better. Notre Dame has the shooters and mid range game from Bonzie to beat our zone.)

[CDu]

And some couldn't imagine us winning 4 games in a row last year against a fresher Notre Dame. It had never even been done. :cool:

Go Va Tech

(I don't think we want a Notre Dame team who would make the NCAA tourney with 1 win over us. We have intangible payback factor vs Va Tech, and honestly I think we match up better. Notre Dame has the shooters and mid range game from Bonzie to beat our zone.)

A few things:
1. Va Tech actually has more (and better) shooters. You should be more concerned about VT if shooting is your concern.
2. Last year isn’t a great point of reference for ND this year. We were the better team last year. We would be the better team this year too (we are better this year snd ND is worse). And Colson would be playing his third game in 3 days after missing months and being out of shape.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Did Mike Brey have his whole team shoveling snow for three hours before this game? I realize they played yesterday but wow.

[Bob Green]

It certainly looks like we will be playing VT tomorrow. Their defense has shutdown the inside and ND can't buy an outside basket. Lots of basketball left to play but the Hokies are in control.

[UrinalCake]

Well ND is trying to make things interesting, cutting the lead to 11 and showing signs of life. We really need a big-time comeback to send this game into OT. Whoever we play will be even more tired, and the CHeats would have to wait even longer before they take the court :)

[UrinalCake]

And now the lead is cut to 8 and VT commits a dumb technical foul. Good, good...

[Bluedog]

And now the lead is cut to 8 and VT commits a dumb technical foul. Good, good...

That was some good exaggeration by Ferrell to tumble over the camera man. I mean, he WAS pushed unnecessarily, but it was extremely weak as the VT guy tried to hold back. No way he did it with that much force, hahaha.

[Kjeffrey]

That was some good exaggeration by Ferrell to tumble over the camera man. I mean, he WAS pushed unnecessarily, but it was extremely weak as the VT guy tried to hold back. No way he did it with that much force, hahaha.

It was kind of a punk move to yank the ball out of Clarke's hands. I'm guessing Farrell did it to be annoying and it worked perfectly.

The best part of this game thus far was the warning to Buzz Williams about staying in the coach's box. That dude thinks he can do whatever he wants.

[kmspeaks]

And now the lead is cut to 8 and VT commits a dumb technical foul. Good, good...

Not excusing Clarke but why is Farrell allowed to grab the ball away from him like that? It's a dead ball, there's absolutely no reason for him to try and take the ball out of an opponent's hands.

[Kjeffrey]

Not excusing Clarke but why is Farrell allowed to grab the ball away from him like that? It's a dead ball, there's absolutely no reason for him to try and take the ball out of an opponent's hands.

I wonder what Valentine would have done if Clarke had not reacted. i definitely think Farrell deserved a warning at least.

[Kjeffrey]

I cannot believe the ND comeback. There is a lid on the basket for the Hokies.

[OldPhiKap]

Wow. Dame up by one with 1:14

[tteettimes]

Praying for overtime

[duke4ever19]

It certainly looks like we will be playing VT tomorrow. Their defense has shutdown the inside and ND can't buy an outside basket. Lots of basketball left to play but the Hokies are in control.

I was about to say that you should write this on the "I'm not going to jinx it" thread, but it looks like it did the trick. Now let's see if I just jinxed the Irish . . .

[dragoneye776]

So did we want Notre Dame again because they'll be tired? Or did we not want them because Bonzie is really good at the midrange jumper?

[UrinalCake]

I cannot believe the ND comeback. There is a lid on the basket for the Hokies.

They haven’t helped themselves by taking so many threes. ND is completely gassed but VT isn’t putting any pressure on their defense.

[duketaylor]

25-5 run.
Amazing comeback. Let's have OT!!

[weezie]

Bite it BuzzSweat.

[CameronCrazy'11]

Virginia Tech isn't even trying to take anything inside. Just putting up contested threes this whole time.

[OldPhiKap]

So did we want Notre Dame again because they'll be tired? Or did we not want them because Bonzie is really good at the midrange jumper?

I want them because they will test us.

[duketaylor]

WOW, almost over now. Travel!! Composure not strong for VT.

[OldPhiKap]

Go Orange!

[uh_no]

epic fail by state and vt

[curtis325]

Get a big lead by playing fast against a tired opponent. Then stop pushing the ball and let the other team get rested. Then forget how to score.

Bad coach! Bad, bad coach!

[Bluegrassdevil1]

The team I wanted Duke to get a bit of revenge against...

Chokes...

Now Duke plays the Irish in the ACC tournament...

Yippy.

[weezie]

Wonder what Buzzy is pondering here... crickets....

[OldPhiKap]

He’s not quite dead yet.

[cbarry]

This has got to be the biggest choke in ACC Tourney history. VT was up by over 20 (?25?) in the second half, and completely self-destructed. Props to ND for never giving up.

Well, hopefully we will beat ND tomorrow. Can’t stand to see Brey win and see that SIG on his face.


I cannot believe the ND comeback. There is a lid on the basket for the Hokies.

[duke4ever19]

He’s not quite dead yet.

Let's go overtime! *clap*clap*clap-clap-clap*

[cbarry]

I wanted a revenge game against VT also... darn Irish. :(

The team I wanted Duke to get a bit of revenge against...

Chokes...

Now Duke plays the Irish in the ACC tournament...

Yippy.

[OldPhiKap]

Let's go overtime! *clap*clap*clap-clap-clap*

Yup. Although ND has not missed a ft

[weezie]

...Can’t stand to see Brey win and see that SIG on his face.

Oh my, you are a man after my own heart. I hope we pound the stuffing out of them.

[AGDukesky]

Let’s make it 4 for 4 on worse seeds winning!

[WHOneedsSOX]

Seems like 20 point leads are blown so often these days. Every day it seems like someone blows a 20 point lead. Not only in college but the NBA too. Warriors went on a 25-0 run last night in the first quarter and by halftime they were losing to one of the worst teams in the NBA.

[weezie]

Look at Jason Capel with the nice tie and pocket square. Not bad at all, quite dapper.

But, still a huge dork.

[BigWayne]

VT went 6 1/2 minutes without scoring. Pretty pathetic.

[gocanes0506]

I think this is a close second to the Louisville loss to UVA.

Talk a complete 180 refereeing style from the Louisville game. The UL game everyone was getting bumped all over the place with no call. Not in this game. A bunch of touchy fouls. It allowed ND to get back into it.

[UrinalCake]

Talk a complete 180 refereeing style from the Louisville game. The UL game everyone was getting bumped all over the place with no call. Not in this game. A bunch of touchy fouls. It allowed ND to get back into it.

That started after the technical foul on the VT player. Refs trying to "take control of the game."

[Bluedog]

#ESPNFail
8182

[arnie]

ESPN just showed the ACC bracket with State playing Clemson tomorrow. Announcers including Crean didn’t flinch. Didn’t realize BC took a forfeit.

[DU82]

Lower seed has won each game so far today.

Let's hope the nightcap continues the trend. (And that it reverses for at least the first game tomorrow NIGHT.)

[Saratoga2]

That started after the technical foul on the VT player. Refs trying to "take control of the game."

Seemed like ND got the majority of the calls going their way. They still had to make shots so now we know what we will face. Hope we don't get Irish refs.

[duketaylor]

I think ND's in now. Simple as that.

Oklahoma loses (again) today, this time to OSU in 1st round of Big 12. They are now 18-13, 8-12 in con. They are 2-8 in their last 10, they shouldn't get a bid, IMO. OSU might deserve that bid.

[WHOneedsSOX]

I think ND's in now. Simple as that.

Oklahoma loses (again) today, this time to OSU in 1st round of Big 12. They are now 18-13, 8-12 in con. They are 2-8 in their last 10, they shouldn't get a bid, IMO. OSU might deserve that bid.
They're clearly one of the top 20 teams in the country with Farrell and Colson. Good pick for an "upset" if/when they make the NCAA tournament. I imagine they'll go in as a mid-number seed.

[SavDukeGrad]

I know there's been a lot of love on this board for Bonzie Colson. And I do feel bad that he got hurt and missed the majority of his senior season. But man, I have always found him really obnoxious!

I was at the ND game in Cameron 2 years ago (Luke Kennard's coming out party) when we lost a close, high scoring game. At one point, Colson ran back down the court right in front of the Duke bench and taunted the bench the whole way. Coach K was furious.

I also watched him help defeat us at the 2015 and 2016 tournaments. Hope we can shut him up and shut him down tomorrow night!

[cbarry]

Yeah, hopefully no “TV Teddy” for our game. He sure helped the Irish.

Seemed like ND got the majority of the calls going their way. They still had to make shots so now we know what we will face. Hope we don't get Irish refs.

[weezie]

...Bonzie Colson...Hope we can shut him up and shut him down tomorrow night!

Works for me.

[richardjackson199]

A few things:
1. Va Tech actually has more (and better) shooters. You should be more concerned about VT if shooting is your concern.
2. Last year isn’t a great point of reference for ND this year. We were the better team last year. We would be the better team this year too (we are better this year snd ND is worse). And Colson would be playing his third game in 3 days after missing months and being out of shape.

ND just erased a 21 point 2nd half deficit with 50 point half. They can shoot. Heart and desperation to make big Dance with a very talented team trumped "tired."

Notre Dame is not in the big Dance yet - they're very much on the bubble. But they're 1 win away from a "lock" to make the dance. A win over Duke erases any question they're a tourney team in the mind of anyone on the committee. You better believe Brey knows it, they're salivating at the opportunity, and after that comeback they probably feel like they're playing with house money.

I expect a very difficult test. They also have revenge factor from last year which they will remember. Go Duke! Whatever the result tomorrow, I expect it will have very little to do with tired. Hope I'm wrong.

[CDu]

ND just erased a 21 point 2nd half deficit with 50 point half. They can shoot. Heart and desperation to make big Dance with a very talented team trumped "tired."

Notre Dame is not in the big Dance yet - they're very much on the bubble. But they're 1 win away from a "lock" to make the dance.

I expect a very difficult test. Go Duke! Whatever the result tomorrow, I expect it will have very little to do with tired. Hope I'm wrong.

Notre Dame is not a bad team. Nor are they a bad shooting team. They just aren’t as good a shooting team as Va Tech.

They gave a lot of effort tonight to come back, and got a lot of help from Va Tech choking. So they aren’t a worse matchup for us than Va Tech.

I think fatigue will be a factor tomorrow. Time will tell.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

He’s not quite dead yet.
Yes he is!
http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8184&stc=1

[MartyClark]

Game on. My brother in law, a Notre Dame grad, just called to talk trash. He's coming over to watch the game.

I like Matt Farrell's game. Against anybody but Duke, I root for him.

Other than Colson, I think we can overestimate the fatigue factor. These kids are young and tough. Like last year for Duke, playing 3 or 4 consecutive nights sometimes sharpens their game.

Go Duke!!

[fraggler]

I think ND's in now. Simple as that.

Oklahoma loses (again) today, this time to OSU in 1st round of Big 12. They are now 18-13, 8-12 in con. They are 2-8 in their last 10, they shouldn't get a bid, IMO. OSU might deserve that bid.

Hard to see the committee leaving Trae Young out of the tourney. OK had RPI of 36 and SOS of 22 prior to the loss, with 5 top 25 wins. I don't think they should be, but I'd be surprised if they are left out.

[Bluedog]

Hard to see the committee leaving Trae Young out of the tourney. OK had RPI of 36 and SOS of 22 prior to the loss, with 5 top 25 wins. I don't think they should be, but I'd be surprised if they are left out.

I agree but seems like this year all everybody cares about is number of "quality wins." And ignores losses. Well, Ok had A LOT of opportunities for quality wins and lost a lot of them. I'm sure if the conference was like the Pac-12 they'd have lost some games too and wouldn't dominate. Seems like a departure from years past. I guess my point is that a team that plays teams in the top 50 consistently will often pull out some victories if they're decent. Similarly, the same team would lose to teams in the 50-100 range if they only played teams in that range. I guess this shows how important it is to be in a conference that's considered good. Ask Nebraska and their 13 B1G wins this year what they think...

[knicknut]

I know there's been a lot of love on this board for Bonzie Colson. And I do feel bad that he got hurt and missed the majority of his senior season. But man, I have always found him really obnoxious!

I was at the ND game in Cameron 2 years ago (Luke Kennard's coming out party) when we lost a close, high scoring game. At one point, Colson ran back down the court right in front of the Duke bench and taunted the bench the whole way. Coach K was furious.

I also watched him help defeat us at the 2015 and 2016 tournaments. Hope we can shut him up and shut him down tomorrow night!

Evidenced clearly by his lucky turnaround banked three in the final minutes tonight. Instead of being genuinely excited or reacting to his good fortune, he turned to self-aggrandize to the crowd as he galloped back. A potentially unlucky draw for us, but will be a satisfying win if we can hold them off tomorrow.

[duke4ever19]

Evidenced clearly by his lucky turnaround banked three in the final minutes tonight. Instead of being genuinely excited or reacting to his good fortune, he turned to self-aggrandize to the crowd as he galloped back. A potentially unlucky draw for us, but will be a satisfying win if we can hold them off tomorrow.

He also did a lot of chest beating after getting fouled late in the game and promptly stepped to the line and missed two free-throws. I'll admit I laughed.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

One thing I’ve noticed is that the refs are letting them play physical in the games I’ve seen. Definitely the games have that late season tourney feel....players better adjust to some more banging than they’ve seen all season.

[dukelifer]

UNC is dominating Syracuse on both ends. This one could get ugly.

[Kjeffrey]

That started after the technical foul on the VT player. Refs trying to "take control of the game."

They called a few moving screens on ND and VT failed to capitalize.

Frankly I didn't want either of those teams to win! They both could pose major problems for Duke because of their good shooting. And I find both coaches annoying.

[ndkjr70]

Syracuse is total trash.

[dukelifer]

Syracuse is total trash.

They are making UNC look like the best team in the country. This game is way over.

[cbarry]

That was pretty much a given before the game. Syracuse is really bad.

UNC is dominating Syracuse on both ends. This one could get ugly.

[Kfanarmy]

That started after the technical foul on the VT player. Refs trying to "take control of the game."

I didn't understand the T there. If anything I thought the ND player should have been Td up.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

One thing I’ve noticed is that the refs are letting them play physical in the games I’ve seen. Definitely the games have that late season tourney feel...players better adjust to some more banging than they’ve seen all season.
And by “them” you mean UNC, right? They’re getting away with very physical “defense” while Cuse is getting called for breathing on the heels.

[richardjackson199]

One thing I’ve noticed is that the refs are letting them play physical in the games I’ve seen. Definitely the games have that late season tourney feel...players better adjust to some more banging than they’ve seen all season.

Evidently it's physical in other conference tourneys as well...

From Texas - Iowa State - "Texas guard Kerwin Roach just lost a tooth. Teammate Matt Coleman picked it up off the floor. Roach is out for now."

[ndkjr70]

Anyone else think the Syracuse boosters are hoping these tournaments never head up to NYC again?

Syracuse moves to 1-5 lifetime in the ACC Tournament. Embarrassing for a once proud basketball school.

[Owen Meany]

Personal fouls - Chuckwu 5, UNC 6

[UrinalCake]

I thought UNC lost the double bye? Apparently I was wrong, Syracuse is just handing this one to them. Nothing but turnovers and jacked up threes in the first half. And now their only decent big guy has fouled out with 16 minutes left in the game.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Personal fouls - Chuckwu 5, UNC 6
Swoffy was on the ref hotline earlier today making sure.

Seriously, mystery fouls against Cuse while cheaters allowed to continually body up and put their hands on Cuse guards.

Granted, Cuse sucks. But the cheats are getting a lot of help on the defensive end.

[SavDukeGrad]

Anyone else think the Syracuse boosters are hoping these tournaments never head up to NYC again?

Syracuse moves to 1-5 lifetime in the ACC Tournament. Embarrassing for a once proud basketball school.

Yes but Syracuse has their first victory ever in the ACC tournament in NYC!

And we know Jim B. has already offended the entire city of Greensboro!

Seriously though, Carolina certainly looks fired up after their defeat last Saturday and subsequent 6 seed.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

And by “them” you mean UNC, right? They’re getting away with very physical “defense” while Cuse is getting called for breathing on the heels.

“Them” was a reference to all the players on all the teams I’ve seen play so far in the tourney.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

“Them” was a reference to all the players on all the teams I’ve seen play so far in the tourney.
Except Syracuse.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Swoffy was on the ref hotline earlier today making sure.

Seriously, mystery fouls against Cuse while cheaters allowed to continually body up and put their hands on Cuse guards.

Granted, Cuse sucks. But the cheats are getting a lot of help on the defensive end.

You need a little Brie to go with that whine? This place has cried about the refs more lately than the Gerber baby at dinner time....players have to just play ball and deal with the refs.

[ndkjr70]

You need a little Brie to go with that whine? This place has cried about the refs more lately than the Gerber baby at dinner time...players have to just play ball and deal with the refs.

I, for one, am *shocked* that there’s an anti-UNC bias on a Duke Basketball forum. Whenever I head over to InsideCarolina and talk about how great Duke is, it’s met with such a warm and calm response!

[Ultrarunner]

You need a little Brie to go with that whine? This place has cried about the refs more lately than the Gerber baby at dinner time...players have to just play ball and deal with the refs.

This does not appear to argue a point on the prior post. Instead, it resorts to dismissive insults.
NOTE: I have not watch the Cheaters tonight, so I do not know whether either point regarding refereeing is accurate.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

This does not appear to argue a point on the prior post. Instead, it resorts to dismissive insults.
NOTE: I have not watch the Cheaters tonight, so I do not know whether either point regarding refereeing is accurate.

The point is deal with the refs and play ball. Stop whining about it every game, it gets old.

[ndkjr70]

The point is deal with the refs and play ball. Stop whining about it every game, it gets old.

Perhaps — and maybe you’ve already thought of this — you shouldn’t read a DUKE BASKETBALL FORUM if you don’t want to read whining about “University” of North Carolina getting cheapies?

[Ultrarunner]

The point is deal with the refs and play ball. Stop whining about it every game, it gets old.

I haven't whined about it, so I have nothing to stop. Perhaps you might have made the flat statement you made to me without resorting to backhanded insults?

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

You need a little Brie to go with that whine? This place has cried about the refs more lately than the Gerber baby at dinner time...players have to just play ball and deal with the refs.
I’m lactose, gluten and cheater intolerant.

I’d be happy to see all teams/players dealing with consistently loose or tight calls, the key being consistency. It has been anything but consistent from my vantage point — although it appears the refs are now working to even things up a little perhaps?

[Owen Meany]

Please don't get mad at Wheat. Just sit back and laugh at the absurdity of a UNC fan posting on a Duke board during a UNC game policing the Duke fans.

For those that visit the UNC boards, how often does Wheat post admonishing UNC fans for their complaints, Pinson for faking fouls, the university for their actions during the cheating scandal, etc. Because he is so vocal about Duke I can only imagine the things he says about his own team. Because surely he polices his own before judging everyone else.

Edited to add "Just saying"

[UrinalCake]

Well they got the lead down to 9. At least keeping it interesting. It's been quite a day of comebacks, maybe we can get just one more?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

My original comment was simply regarding the physicality of play for all teams in the tourney,..you guys turned it into a “thing”

[ndkjr70]

My original comment was simply regarding the physicality of play for all teams in the tourney,..you guys turned it into a “thing”

“You need a little Brie to go with that whine? This place has cried about the refs more lately than the Gerber baby at dinner time...players have to just play ball and deal with the refs.”

Why even lie about something when the evidence is literally written down? Although I guess that worked well enough for your *ahem* “University”, so why not double down?

[UrinalCake]

^ must have been a typo

[OldPhiKap]

I’m glad that Boeheim likes playing in NYC. Good luck in the NIT.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I’m glad that Boeheim likes playing in NYC. Good luck in the NIT.
Seriously. So he hates the South. Can’t win in NYC either. What’s next? Canada?

[pfrduke]

Here are the Thursday matchups:

[1]Virginia (-9) vs. [32]Louisville (12:00, ESPN)
[18]Clemson (-6) vs. [75]Boston College (2:00, ESPN)
[3]Duke (-8) vs. [28]Notre Dame (7:00, ESPN)
[35]Miami (+6) vs. [8]UNC (9:00, ESPN)

Miami-UNC will likely be the only game this tournament where the lower seed is the favorite.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Here are the Thursday matchups:

[1]Virginia (-9) vs. [32]Louisville (12:00, ESPN)
[18]Clemson (-6) vs. [75]Boston College (2:00, ESPN)
[3]Duke (-8) vs. [28]Notre Dame (7:00, ESPN)
[35]Miami (+6) vs. [8]UNC (9:00, ESPN)

Miami-UNC will likely be the only game this tournament where the lower seed is the favorite.

At first blush, this looks like four really good games. I might have to develop some sort of unfortunate stomach bug around lunchtime.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Why even lie about something when the evidence is literally written down? Although I guess that worked well enough for your *ahem* “University”, so why not double down?

You need to go back to my original comment in this thread about the physicality of play, just like I said, or my second comment explaining the first comment...before you leap to calling me a liar on my response to the other posts.

Moving on...

Miami is a tough matchup for the Heels. They are very athletic and quick, really space the floor to take advantage of that.

UNC will have to play well to win this one.

[ndkjr70]

Here are the Thursday matchups:

[1]Virginia (-9) vs. [32]Louisville (12:00, ESPN)
[18]Clemson (-6) vs. [75]Boston College (2:00, ESPN)
[3]Duke (-8) vs. [28]Notre Dame (7:00, ESPN)
[35]Miami (+6) vs. [8]UNC (9:00, ESPN)

Miami-UNC will likely be the only game this tournament where the lower seed is the favorite.

It bugs me more than it should that the two "best" teams in the conference have the two most difficult opponents today.

[budwom]

It bugs me more than it should that the two "best" teams in the conference have the two most difficult opponents today.

I could easily see the underdog winning any of those games, especially BC over Clemmons.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

It bugs me more than it should that the two "best" teams in the conference have the two most difficult opponents today.
Gotta beat the best to be the best. Usually. :cool:

[DarkstarWahoo]

It bugs me more than it should that the two "best" teams in the conference have the two most difficult opponents today.

Me too, but the only way around it is to get rid of the double bye, and that's a solution worse than the problem. If you're good enough to get a top-four seed, it's far better to just have to play three games and risk playing a better opponent when the NCAA tournament is around the corner.

It's just the way a bracket works. Gotta beat who's in front of you.

[budwom]

The other way to look at this is that winning the ACC Tournament isn't a must for any of the top seeds, but it provides a good opportunity to play some very good teams before the NCAAs. So why
not have some tough games now and get ready?

[ndkjr70]

Me too, but the only way around it is to get rid of the double bye, and that's a solution worse than the problem. If you're good enough to get a top-four seed, it's far better to just have to play three games and risk playing a better opponent when the NCAA tournament is around the corner.

It's just the way a bracket works. Gotta beat who's in front of you.

I always thought that re-seeding after each round, like hockey, would be interesting. Obviously can't do it for march, but since all of the teams are playing in the same building it's got plenty of merit. But we'd still be playing ND, since they're probably the most dangerous 10 seed in the history of the ACCT.

[ndkjr70]

The other way to look at this is that winning the ACC Tournament isn't a must for any of the top seeds, but it provides a good opportunity to play some very good teams before the NCAAs. So why
not have some tough games now and get ready?

Must? No. But winning today could be the difference between a 1 seed (at worst #2 in the east) and something like #2 in the West. Yikes.

[OldPhiKap]

The other way to look at this is that winning the ACC Tournament isn't a must for any of the top seeds, but it provides a good opportunity to play some very good teams before the NCAAs. So why
not have some tough games now and get ready?

That's my view, which is why I am glad that our kids will get to face Bonzie and Ferrell. If we have a problem doing that, let's figure it out now while we have one last mulligan.

[jv001]

That's my view, which is why I am glad that our kids will get to face Bonzie and Ferrell. If we have a problem doing that, let's figure it out now while we have one last mulligan.

Ah, I knew OPK liked the PGA. :cool: I agree with your take on playing ND. Let's win against a good team and get ready for another 9F. GoDuke!

[summerwind03]

Here are the Thursday matchups:

[1]Virginia (-9) vs. [32]Louisville (12:00, ESPN)
[18]Clemson (-6) vs. [75]Boston College (2:00, ESPN)
[3]Duke (-8) vs. [28]Notre Dame (7:00, ESPN)
[35]Miami (+6) vs. [8]UNC (9:00, ESPN)

Miami-UNC will likely be the only game this tournament where the lower seed is the favorite.

I know everyone here knows this, but the Second games in each session won't start until 2:30 and 9:30 at the earliest.

[DarkstarWahoo]

I always thought that re-seeding after each round, like hockey, would be interesting. Obviously can't do it for march, but since all of the teams are playing in the same building it's got plenty of merit. But we'd still be playing ND, since they're probably the most dangerous 10 seed in the history of the ACCT.

That's a non-starter. There's no way anyone exercising responsible authority is going to tell a team that comes off the court at nearly midnight that it has to turn around and play the first game the next day because of reseeding.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It bugs me more than it should that the two "best" teams in the conference have the two most difficult opponents today.

Are you calling Notre Dame and Louisville the two best teams in the conference?

[freshmanjs]

It bugs me more than it should that the two "best" teams in the conference have the two most difficult opponents today.

I don't buy that ND is a tougher opponent than UNC right now. BC is obviously the "easiest" of the 4 opponents for double bye teams. ND is either the 2nd or 3rd toughest. UNC clearly the most difficult IMO.