Constructive Criticism vs. Venting and Bashing

[devil84]

Last night after the loss, it was pretty clear that there were a lot of people who were (rightfully) upset with the outcome of the game. I'm sure all of us sat in front of our TVs muttering a number of off-color words, called some players or officials rude names, and told our spouses, children, dogs, or potted plants what we thought of the game. And I'm sure that no small amount of adult beverages were consumed during or just after the game.

And, predictably after the loss, we come to congregate with our virtual friends and rehash the game. One of the things DBR prides ourselves on is the level of discourse. We expect that people provide detail in their opinions (something more than "Grayson is awesome"), cite their sources from mainstream media outlets ("CBS is reporting..."), and use language appropriate for a family-friendly environment.

After the particularly disappointing loss last night, the level of discourse sunk. Generalities abounded. "This team is bad." "A stupid loss." "Just [wankerized] stupid." A number of instances of circumventing the language filter. Needless posting. Lots of venting and player bashing.

It became apparent that some people don't know the difference between constructive criticism and venting/bashing. Contrary to popular belief, it's not what words you use, though some words (e.g., stupid, abysmal, horrific, pathetic, etc.) tend to be used while venting and bashing. Constructive criticism has details that support your observation or opinion, bashing and venting omit the details. Here are a few examples:

"The team is bad." This, without any other context, is venting/bashing.
"The team is bad at making inbounds pass decisions," is constructive criticism.
"This was a stupid loss." Bashing.
"There are good losses, bad losses, there are growth losses, there are give-away losses. This was a stupid loss, thanks to stupid decisions and stupid officiating." Constructive criticism.
"Player X is pathetic." Bashing
"Player X is shooting 12% from the free throw line. This pathetic stat has to improve." Constructive criticism.

It's not the vocabulary (OK, if it's profanity or an attempt to circumvent the wankerizer, it IS your vocabulary). It's the depth of your observation. Venting and bashing simply states your opinion. Constructive criticism gives reasons WHY you hold that opinion.

Constructive criticism is always allowed by the mods (the community will hold you accountable for your expressed opinions, however). Bashing and venting is not. Feel free to bash and vent in the privacy of your own home. Text it to your friends. Write it on other boards. You can vent your frustrations a lot of places, just not here.

When posters spew those angry broadside slams against the coaches or team or individual players on a public forum, they come across as fans who don't understand basketball. That's just not DBR.

[duketaylor]

I suppose I'm lucky to have been working last night and saw none of the game. I did return home to read many posts. I've also heard many folks on local radio today here in Richmond. Folks here have a completely different take on last night's game than many Duke supporters. Not surprising, to me. I'm currently watching UM vs. unc, and these announcers are very unc-friendly. (Yes, Jay, is one) That being said, the criticism I read last night was as harsh as I can recall in recent DBR history.

I can't comment on the game itself, so I'll leave it at what I read afterwards.

GO CANES!!

I'll quickly add I've noticed plenty of new posters in the past day or two. Not a bad thing, but something I've noticed.

[Kjeffrey]

I suppose I'm lucky to have been working last night and saw none of the game. I did return home to read many posts. I've also heard many folks on local radio today here in Richmond. Folks here have a completely different take on last night's game than many Duke supporters. Not surprising, to me. I'm currently watching UM vs. unc, and these announcers are very unc-friendly. (Yes, Jay, is one) That being said, the criticism I read last night was as harsh as I can recall in recent DBR history.

I can't comment on the game itself, so I'll leave it at what I read afterwards.

GO CANES!!

I'll quickly add I've noticed plenty of new posters in the past day or two. Not a bad thing, but something I've noticed.

I am curious about the Richmond take on the game.

At a quick glance many comments in the post game thread were from long time members. Maybe the bashing/venting comments have been deleted. Regardless, it's always good to get a reminder.

[uh_no]

Thank you for starting this, and to pile on, I think what you're saying extends to refs. How many posts last night did we see that were akin to

"The refs suck! they should never work a game again!"
and
"To bad nobody is allowed to talk about reffing here..."

Both add nothing. If you want to talk about how a call was missed at the end of the game, or that overall the refs let too much slide down low, and that might have advantaged VT, sure. But this stuff comes out every game. It's twerping. And nobody is trying to shut down discussion about the refs...people are tired of posts like the former.

It's all venting. None of it is conducive to any conversation. It lowers the level of discourse.

So talk about the refs, but hold ourselves to the higher standard than the twerps.

[devil84]

At a quick glance many comments in the post game thread were from long time members. Maybe the bashing/venting comments have been deleted. Regardless, it's always good to get a reminder.

We generally delete posts that receive warnings or infractions. Why? In real time (particularly after losses), those kinds of posts are infectious. It's amazing how fast a conversation can devolve. It also makes it tough on the moderators, who are also really upset about the game and just want to join the conversation, but need to keep the venting, bashing, and needless posts from overtaking the conversation. We do have lots of readers that wait until the next morning to read the post-game thread. They get to see it without the knee-jerk reactions. People can and do use the search feature and go back and read post-game threads years (or decades) later, so you can thank your mod team that we keep these, uh, less than stellar remarks said in the emotion (and inebriation?) of the moment from living on forever.

[Neals384]

Thanks for the reminder, devil84.

[RPS]

WARNING: Nitpick alert


Constructive criticism is always allowed by the mods (the community will hold you accountable for your expressed opinions, however).

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP/warning with one minor nitpick. For any DBR criticism to be "constructive" -- a helpful suggestion for positive change -- it would have to be read, considered, accepted and acted upon by the team or some subset of individual members. Let's not kid ourselves. We don't matter that much.

P.S. In case the light-hearted spirit of my post is missed, I don't think that our esteemed mods expect that anybody really involved with the team is going to take advice from the likes of us. That's still further reason for us simply to settle down after tough losses. As someone who was a Duke fan before Coach K (and even though we had some major victories before he arrived), I am acutely aware that we have had far more than our fair share of wins and championships. I want more of them too. But our incredible success since 1980 should allow us to keep some perspective when some game or season doesn't go the way we'd like.

[Devilwin]

I admit, I made a "This Team is bad" blast. Because, I didn't want to call out individuals by name. In case they peruse this thread. I was really bent at the refs, and our play near the end of the game. Not to mention that just a little while before the game's end some guy tried to jump in the car with my wife as she was leaving her job at Wal Mart. And, we were not taught to sugar coat things in the Marine Corps. But no excuses being made here. I will own it, and try to make my criticism better and more informative.

[jv001]

I admit, I made a "This Team is bad" blast. Because, I didn't want to call out individuals by name. In case they peruse this thread. I was really bent at the refs, and our play near the end of the game. Not to mention that just a little while before the game's end some guy tried to jump in the car with my wife as she was leaving her job at Wal Mart. And, we were not taught to sugar coat things in the Marine Corps. But no excuses being made here. I will own it, and try to make my criticism better and more informative.

You could have fooled me. :cool: But you were not alone and at least own up to it. Let's beat uncheat and GoDuke!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I admit, I made a "This Team is bad" blast. Because, I didn't want to call out individuals by name. In case they peruse this thread. I was really bent at the refs, and our play near the end of the game. Not to mention that just a little while before the game's end some guy tried to jump in the car with my wife as she was leaving her job at Wal Mart. And, we were not taught to sugar coat things in the Marine Corps. But no excuses being made here. I will own it, and try to make my criticism better and more informative.

Whoa. I assume your wife is okay? That's far more important than the judgment calls of some, uh, poor referees.

[Devilwin]

Whoa. I assume your wife is okay? That's far more important than the judgment calls of some, uh, poor referees.

She's fine, thanks. Won't be walking out alone at night though.