This Week in the ACC: 2/26-3/3

[pfrduke]

The final week of the season is here! Tons still to be decided in terms of ACCT seeding and NCAA positioning. Aside from Virginia, no one has locked up a double-bye yet (Duke is close, although it would finish last in a 4-way tie at 12-6 with NCSU, Clemson, and UNC, which is the only scenario in which Duke would be the 5 seed), and Pitt is the only other team to have locked its seed up. Duke and UNC each would be the 2 seed by winning out, although Duke doesn't need to win out to be the 2 (it needs 1 win and 1 UNC loss - I know a great way to make both those things happen. NC State could be the 3 seed or the 9 seed! It is possible (unlikely, certainly, but possible) to have a 6-way tie for 4th at 10-8* or several 5-way ties for third at 11-7. Basically, all sorts of craziness can ensue. What a way to end the regular season.

*Here's how we get there: FSU beats Clemson and BC; Clemson loses to Syracuse; Louisville loses to UVA but beats State; State loses to Georgia Tech; Virginia Tech loses to Duke but beats Miami; Miami beats UNC - FSU wins the 4-seed.**

**It's also possible to reverse those last two results - VT beats Duke but loses to Miami; Miami loses to UNC - which would make Miami the 4-seed, but, call me crazy, I prefer the scenario where Duke wins and UNC loses.

Monday
[34]Virginia Tech (9-7) (+6) hosts [3]Duke(12-4) (7:00, ESPN)

Tuesday
[7]North Carolina(11-5) (-10) hosts [41]Miami (9-7) (9:00, ESPN)

Wednesday
[29]Notre Dame (7-9) (-18) hosts [237]Pittsburgh (0-17) (7:00, ESPNU) - kudos to the ACC schedulers for predicting that Pitt would be garbage and keeping it off the final weekend
[18]Clemson (10-6) (-6) hosts [35]Florida State (8-8) (9:00, ESPNU)
[83]Boston College (6-10) (-1) hosts [51]Syracuse (7-9) (9:00, ACCNE)

Thursday
[33]Louisville (9-7) (+6) hosts [1]Virginia (15-1) (8:00, ACCNE)
[119]Georgia Tech (4-12) (+5) hosts [40]NC State (10-6) (8:00, ACCNE)

Friday is dark

Saturday
[119]Georgia Tech (4-12) (-1) hosts [88]Wake Forest (4-13) (12:00, ACCNE)
[41]Miami (9-7) (-3) hosts [34]Virginia Tech (9-7) (12:00, ESPN2)
[51]Syracuse (7-9) (-1) hosts [18]Clemson (10-6) (2:00, ACCNE)
[35]Florida State (8-8) (-9) hosts [83]Boston College (6-10) (2:00, ACCNE)
[1]Virginia (15-1) (-12) hosts [29]Notre Dame (7-9) (4:00, ACCNE)
[40]NC State (10-6) (-3) hosts [33]Louisville (9-7) (6:00, ESPN
[3]Duke (12-4) (-7) hosts [7]North Carolina (11-5) (8:15, ESPN)

Sunday we all catch our breath and get ready for Brooklyn

ACC Non-Conference Record: 151-39
ACC v. Power 6: 29-22

[pfrduke]

And the conference-only efficiency margin standings (unadjusted):

Virginia: +20.3
Duke: +17.3
North Carolina: +9.4
Louisville: +5.5
Clemson: +3.5
NC State: +0.9
Miami: +0.4
Notre Dame: +0.3
Syracuse: 0.0
Florida State: -0.5
Virginia Tech: -1.1
Boston College: -5.4
Wake Forest: -7.4
Georgia Tech: -10.9
Pittsburgh: -29.6

[PackMan97]

+1 for a road win / -1 for a home loss


TEAM +/- CONF OVERALL
Virginia +7 15-1 26-2 @VT, @GT, @WF, @Duke, @Syracuse, @FSU, @Miami, @Pitt (VT)
Duke +4 12-4 24-5 @Pitt, @UM, @WF, @GT, @Clemson, (UVa)
North Carolina +3 11-5 22-7 @ND, @NCSU, @UL, @Syracuse (NCSU)
Clemson +2 10-6 21-7 @BC, @GT, @Wake, (Duke)
NC State +2 10-6 20-9 @Pitt, @Cheats, @Syracuse, @WF (UM, Cheats)
Miami +1 9-7 20-8 @NCSU, @Pitt, @VT, @ND (Duke, Syracuse, UVa)
Virginia Tech +1 9-7 20-9 @WF, @ND, @BC, @UVa, @GT, (FSU, UVa, Miami, Syracuse)
Louisville +1 9-7 19-10 @ND, @FSU, @Pitt, @VT (FSU, UL, Cheats)
Florida State 0 8-8 19-9 @VT, @UL, (UL, UVa)
Syracuse -1 7-9 18-11 @Pitt, @UL, @Miami, (ND, UVA, NCSU, Cheats)
Notre Dame -1 7-9 17-12 @Cuse, @BC, @Wake (UL, Cheats, VT, Miami)
Boston College -2 6-10 16-13 @Pitt, (Clemson, VT, ND)
Georgia Tech -3 4-12 11-18 @Pitt, (UVa, Clemson, Duke, VT)
Wake Forest -5 4-13 11-18 @Pitt, (Duke, UVa, VT, Clemson, NCSU, ND)
Pittsburgh -9 0-17 8-22 (UM, Duke, GT, Syracuse, NCSU, UL, BC, WF, UVa)


Congrats to Pitt for completely a perfect season at home. They only have one game left and they can make it a perfect road season as well!

VT is one win away from a perfect season on the road as well.

[pfrduke]

+1 for a road win / -1 for a home loss


TEAM +/- CONF OVERALL
Virginia +7 15-1 26-2 @VT, @GT, @WF, @Duke, @Syracuse, @FSU, @Miami, @Pitt (VT)
Duke +4 12-4 24-5 @Pitt, @UM, @WF, @GT, @Clemson, (UVa)
North Carolina +3 11-5 22-7 @ND, @NCSU, @UL, @Syracuse (NCSU)
Clemson +2 10-6 21-7 @BC, @GT, @Wake, (Duke)
NC State +2 10-6 20-9 @Pitt, @Cheats, @Syracuse, @WF (UM, Cheats)
Miami +1 9-7 20-8 @NCSU, @Pitt, @VT, @ND (Duke, Syracuse, UVa)
Virginia Tech +1 9-7 20-9 @WF, @ND, @BC, @UVa, @GT, (FSU, UVa, Miami, Syracuse)
Louisville +1 9-7 19-10 @ND, @FSU, @Pitt, @VT (FSU, UL, Cheats)
Florida State 0 8-8 19-9 @VT, @UL, (UL, UVa)
Syracuse -1 7-9 18-11 @Pitt, @UL, @Miami, (ND, UVA, NCSU, Cheats)
Notre Dame -1 7-9 17-12 @Cuse, @BC, @Wake (UL, Cheats, VT, Miami)
Boston College -2 6-10 16-13 @Pitt, (Clemson, VT, ND)
Georgia Tech -3 4-12 11-18 @Pitt, (UVa, Clemson, Duke, VT)
Wake Forest -5 4-13 11-18 @Pitt, (Duke, UVa, VT, Clemson, NCSU, ND)
Pittsburgh -9 0-17 8-22 (UM, Duke, GT, Syracuse, NCSU, UL, BC, WF, UVa)


Congrats to Pitt for completely a perfect season at home. They only have one game left and they can make it a perfect road season as well!

VT is one win away from a perfect season on the road as well.

Think you mean UVA there at the end.

[OldPhiKap]

Is this Danny Manning's second year at Wake? I hope they give any new coach some time, but -- sheesh. Talk about a stinker of a season.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Is this Danny Manning's second year at Wake? I hope they give any new coach some time, but -- sheesh. Talk about a stinker of a season.

Fourth year. He'll likely be given one more year. Then he's out.

Coaching in the state of North Carolina is unforgiving. But Manning's had his chances.

[JasonEvans]

VT is one win away from a perfect season on the road as well.

Huh? What do you mean by this?

[PackMan97]

Coaching in the state of North Carolina is unforgiving. But Manning's had his chances.

I disagree. Coaching in NC is no different than any other state in any other conference.

Manning really needed to follow up on last season with a good season this year (especially with key injuries to ND, GT, Clemson, instead they are back to bottom of the ACC and losing to Liberty, Charleston Southern, Drake and three wins over RPI Top 150 opponents (last year they had 11 wins over RPI Top 150)

[PackMan97]

Huh? What do you mean by this?

Typo, I meant UVa is a win away from an undefeated ACC road record. My bad.

[Wahoo2000]

Typo, I meant UVa is a win away from an undefeated ACC road record. My bad.

Grrrr... this is like saying “David Thompson is a Tar Heel great”.

How does one confuse VT with UVa?
🤭...🤢...🤮

[PackMan97]

Grrrr... this is like saying “David Thompson is a Tar Heel great”.

How does one confuse VT with UVa?
🤭...🤢...🤮

Simple, both beat NC State this season.

[jhmoss1812]

Simple, both beat NC State this season.

You must have had a lot of difficulty differentiating the ACC teams during the Gottfried years.

[Dev11]

I never knew had badly I needed to witness a UVA vs State barb-fest on the DBR boards before. Keep up the good work, neighbors.

[MChambers]

Typo, I meant UVa is a win away from an undefeated ACC road record. My bad.
During preparation for SEC testimony, an employee was asked to explain an incorrect response on an SEC form, a response that he’d been ordered to enter by the CEO. He said: “it’s a typographical error.” When asked what he meant, he said, “Well, it’s an error and it’s typed.”

[jhmoss1812]

I never knew had badly I needed to witness a UVA vs State barb-fest on the DBR boards before. Keep up the good work, neighbors.

If you ever get bored, check out PackPride during a UVA-NCSU game.

[devildeac]

During preparation for SEC testimony, an employee was asked to explain an incorrect response on an SEC form, a response that he’d been ordered to enter by the CEO. He said: “it’s a typographical error.” When asked what he meant, he said, “Well, it’s an error and it’s typed.”

Must be a "u"nc grad/lawyer/coach. :rolleyes:

[PackMan97]

Carolina fans think Roy should be ACC coach of the year.

https://www.tarheelblog.com/2018/2/27/17056428/unc-north-carolina-tar-heels-basketball-roy-williams-case-for-acc-coach-of-the-year

[UrinalCake]

Miami has fallen apart ever since I started watching. 14 point lead is down to 2. Gotta hang on!

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Jay looks like he went to Roy’s tailor.

[FerryFor50]

Miami has fallen apart ever since I started watching. 14 point lead is down to 2. Gotta hang on!

Miami still not in the bonus with 28 seconds left. 🙄

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Foul calls are a joke!

[FerryFor50]

Foul calls are a joke!

Have been most of this half. That and UNC getting hot from 3 is why they got back into it.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Have been most of this half. That and UNC getting hot from 3 is why they got back into it.
Plus Swoff on the hotline.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Oh baby! Senior night!!!!!!!

[FerryFor50]

Why is Miami putting their worst ft shooter in position to get the ball on inbound plays? At least he’s hitting.

And Miami wins it Villanova style!

[Bluegrassdevil1]

I feel SSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH BETTER!!!!!!

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Oh man. That caps a perfect night of Miami basketball.

Newton winning it Villanova style at UNC. Shortly before, we got a truly vintage Dwyane Wade performance at home, hitting a game winner with 5 seconds left.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Welcome to the club Ja’Quan!

[Bluedog]

Oh man. That caps a perfect night of Miami basketball.

Newton winning it Villanova style at UNC. Shortly before, we got a truly vintage Dwyane Wade performance at home, hitting a game winner with 5 seconds left.

But JJ missed the potential game winner against Miami... :(

But I'll take the shot against the cheats!

[UrinalCake]

That was awesome

[Troublemaker]

Wheat - still think Larranaga is a horrible coach?

[CatDevil]

Didn't sleep very well last night... No problem tonight. I will sleep like a Baby

[UrinalCake]

Equally as impressive as the final shot was Newton making four free throws, both in one and one situations while up by one. Basically Miami did everything we didn’t do yesterday.

[FerryFor50]

Wheat - still think Larranaga is a horrible coach?

Honestly, Larranaga never adjusted to Berry destroying the smaller freshman Lykes. And even though Newton hit his FTs, he was the worst shooter on the floor and Miami kept him out there and running plays to inbound to him. Miami was fortunate to pull that one out.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

But JJ missed the potential game winner against Miami... :(

But I'll take the shot against the cheats!

I choose to believe JJ missed that shot for me because normally he's knocking that down. Thanks, JJ.

[Troublemaker]

Honestly, Larranaga never adjusted to Berry destroying the smaller freshman Lykes. And even though Newton hit his FTs, he was the worst shooter on the floor and Miami kept him out there and running plays to inbound to him. Miami was fortunate to pull that one out.

Eh, details.

I just find it ironic (or is it apt?) that Wheat's team lost on Senior Night to what he had previously called a horribly coached team.

Perhaps down the stretch Larranaga could've been better but he must've done something right in this game.

[wobatus]

Carolina fans think Roy should be ACC coach of the year.

https://www.tarheelblog.com/2018/2/27/17056428/unc-north-carolina-tar-heels-basketball-roy-williams-case-for-acc-coach-of-the-year

Every comment says Bennett. Keatts was good too.

This dude gets prognosticator of the year:

https://howtheyplay.com/team-sports/2017-ACC-Basketball-Preview

[dukelion]

It pains me but I'll always give Berry props. Kid has made big shot after big shot in the biggest of games.

So it's appropriate that his senior ends like that.....great game.

[Kjeffrey]

Fourth year. He'll likely be given one more year. Then he's out.

Coaching in the state of North Carolina is unforgiving. But Manning's had his chances.

My husband is a Wake grad and he is still in Manning's corner. But maybe that's because he knows it could be worse like Jeff Bzdelik.

[FerryFor50]

Eh, details.

I just find it ironic (or is it apt?) that Wheat's team lost on Senior Night to what he had previously called a horribly coached team.

Perhaps down the stretch Larranaga could've been better but he must've done something right in this game.

He stayed out of his players’ way, I guess. 😛

Either way, glad UNC lost.

[gofurman]

Honestly, Larranaga never adjusted to Berry destroying the smaller freshman Lykes. And even though Newton hit his FTs, he was the worst shooter on the floor and Miami kept him out there and running plays to inbound to him. Miami was fortunate to pull that one out.

This was like earlier Duke games. No d. On either side. We better be ready to stop berry drives and threes. That guy is scaring me. He went off at the end w threes when they needed it. I guess we should run him off the three line and try to force him to take ten foot jumper. Run him off three line and have a big back to protect rim. Berry lives on threes and at rim. Make him shoot the middle j

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Miami’s kids made big, tough shots all night. They played really well, so first off, props to them. And I’ll stand by my opinion of Larranagra. Players making stellar plays won that game for Miami, not some great coaching effort. Although I will give him credit for having them mentally ready to play.

Pretty simple to explain this loss from UNC perspective, unforced TO’s killed UNC in the mid game stretch and that became too much to overcome in the end. I’d say senior night pressure rattled them when they couldn’t get stops due to Miami just making tough shots...and they pressed for a while there resulting in the TO’s and getting down by 16...

Nice job by Roy and the UNC players for getting things settled back down and making some big plays and shots to get back in it.

This one was destiny for Miami. So many good things happened for them that proves that sometimes it’s just your night...17% 3pt shooter hits a running half court shot at the buzzer, after making all his clutch FT’s as a 60% shooter? Gotta hand it to that kid, great game for him and the team to earn a road win like that.

[UrinalCake]

Very weird that Duke and UNC seem to be headed in opposite directions in terms of their offense and defense. I remember when we had three straight games giving up 90+ points. Now UNC just lost 91-88 while we are playing games in the 60’s.

[cptnflash]

That was the best thing I’ve seen in sports this year... UNC fans went from cheering wildly to defeat cobra in 4 seconds. Reminiscent of the Austin Rivers 3 at the buzzer in 2012. Not quite as satisfying, but close. Especially so since I was heckled by a UNC fan when I walked through a hotel lobby in a Duke shirt this morning after our loss last night. I really hope that guy watched the game tonight. Although since it wasn’t against us, the odds that he paid attention are probably pretty low.

[Sir Stealth]

There is nothing better than seeing a stunned Dean Dome crowd take in a last second loss. I have rewound the video over and over again picking a different person to focus on as the shot goes in. I think by the end of tomorrow I probably will have watched every person in the frame's reaction. Then after that I will probably go back and do the same for the Rivers shot all over again. It is irresistible.

[Kedsy]

There is nothing better than seeing a stunned Dean Dome crowd take in a last second loss. I have rewound the video over and over again picking a different person to focus on as the shot goes in. I think by the end of tomorrow I probably will have watched every person in the frame's reaction. Then after that I will probably go back and do the same for the Rivers shot all over again. It is irresistible.

Bonus points if you can find a fan who appeared in both videos.

[JasonEvans]

Someone help me out... we need some running ACC tournament seeding scenarios. How low can Carolina go when we spank them on Saturday?

[PackMan97]

Someone help me out... we need some running ACC tournament seeding scenarios. How low can Carolina go when we spank them on Saturday?

6th, but they need some help from State, Clemson, VT and Miami to make it happen. Of course it all starts with Duke winning or they get the 2nd seed.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/unc-now/article202319234.html

[akg4y]

6th, but they need some help from State, Clemson, VT and Miami to make it happen. Of course it all starts with Duke winning or they get the 2nd seed.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/unc-now/article202319234.html

I think they just need Clemson to beat Syracuse and NCSt to win 1 of 2:
http://bball.notnothing.net/acc.php?sport=mbb

[pfrduke]

I think they just need Clemson to beat Syracuse and NCSt to win 1 of 2:
http://bball.notnothing.net/acc.php?sport=mbb

Right. VT and Miami play each other Saturday so they can’t both win out. And either of them will win an 11-7 tiebreak with UNC

[fan345678]

On another note, we might have a new regular season record for surrender cobras:
81348134

[jv001]

Interesting note on the Hurricane victory over the cheats, there was 4.1 seconds on the clock when Miami took the ball out of bounds(same as our game). Newton got a running start when he received the ball, but actually shot the ball about the same distance from the basket that Grayson did. The difference was Newton was able to get more lift on his shot and wasn't defended as well. Ironic set of events. GoDuke!

[kshepinthehouse]

Interesting note on the Hurricane victory over the cheats, there was 4.1 seconds on the clock when Miami took the ball out of bounds(same as our game). Newton got a running start when he received the ball, but actually shot the ball about the same distance from the basket that Grayson did. The difference was Newton was able to get more lift on his shot and wasn't defended as well. Ironic set of events. GoDuke!

Grayson was actually fouled on that play. His defender was under him and didn’t allow him his properly landing area.

[jv001]

Grayson was actually fouled on that play. His defender was under him and didn’t allow him his properly landing area.

I thought that as well. But no use fretting over it now. The Duke loss to Miami several years ago that had forward laterals and blocks in the back showed me that games will not be changed after they have been played. Turnovers cost us the game anyway. GoDuke!

[devildeac]

Grayson was actually fouled on that play. His defender was under him and didn’t allow him his properly landing area.

Invented by dean.

Can't recall if it was before or after pointing.

[OldPhiKap]

Invented by dean.

Can't recall if it was before or after pointing.

Dean invented basketball, but he was so humble that he let Naismith take the credit.

Nice win by the Canes. Does not diminish the fact that UNC is gonna be a tough draw in the NCAA though unfortunately. And it sets up two pretty pissed off teams meeting Saturday night in Durham.

[Troublemaker]

Players making stellar plays won that game for Miami, not some great coaching effort.

I think if you went back and watched the game, you'll see that Miami repeatedly exploited your pick-n-roll defense. (Don't feel alone, we've been there). Sometimes with very pretty, clever plays.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FlickeringEagerLiger-size_restricted.gif

I'd say some coaching was involved there.

You'll also notice that whenever UNC threw a surprise at Miami -- a run&jump defensive possession, for example -- Miami was prepared for it.


Although I will give him credit for having them mentally ready to play.

There's a pretty good chance that in a few days you'll also have to give Larranaga credit for having the same ACC record as Roy despite missing his best player for the final 10 games of the season due to injury.

[Troublemaker]

Someone help me out... we need some running ACC tournament seeding scenarios. How low can Carolina go when we spank them on Saturday?


6th, but they need some help from State, Clemson, VT and Miami to make it happen. Of course it all starts with Duke winning or they get the 2nd seed.


I think they just need Clemson to beat Syracuse and NCSt to win 1 of 2:
http://bball.notnothing.net/acc.php?sport=mbb


Right. VT and Miami play each other Saturday so they can’t both win out. And either of them will win an 11-7 tiebreak with UNC

If Duke beats UNC on Saturday, I can't see any way UNC gets a 3 seed, right? I've tried a few combinations using that link and can't seem to find a way. Maybe one of you tiebreaker gurus can be more creative and find the magic combo.

But, assuming I'm right, then this Saturday's clash between Duke and UNC will decide the pie bet between Wheat and me. (Our bet was on whether UNC will be a top-3 seed in the ACC tourney).

Gotta say, even though I've defended this Duke team all season, I have my limits. I'm only human. If we get swept by UNC on Senior Night for Grayson, costing me a pie, this Duke team will immediately become one of my least favorite of all time. I don't expect that to happen, though.

[CDu]

If Duke beats UNC on Saturday, I can't see any way UNC gets a 3 seed, right? I've tried a few combinations using that link and can't seem to find a way. Maybe one of you tiebreaker gurus can be more creative and find the magic combo.

But, assuming I'm right, then this Saturday's clash between Duke and UNC will decide the pie bet between Wheat and me. (Our bet was on whether UNC will be a top-3 seed in the ACC tourney).

Gotta say, even though I've defended this Duke team all season, I have my limits. I'm only human. If we get swept by UNC on Senior Night for Grayson, costing me a pie, this Duke team will immediately become one of my least favorite of all time. I don't expect that to happen, though.

Correct. A Duke win means that - even if Clemson and State lose out - one of VT and Miami would tie UNC for 3rd at 11-7. And both VT and Miami hold tiebreakers over UNC.

Of course, there is the converse: if we lose to UNC, then they likely finish second and we coild potentially fall out of the top-4.

So, pretty much a must-win game for us from my perspective.

[jwillfan]

Have never heard that expression before - explain?

My wife and I always comment on the universal sign of "I can't believe my team lost" - hand on top of the head. Once you see it, you can't un-see it!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Have never heard that expression before - explain?

My wife and I always comment on the universal sign of "I can't believe my team lost" - hand on top of the head. Once you see it, you can't un-see it!

Perhaps the first mega publicized surrender cobra ever....a Duke trivia question - and not in surrender.....
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--xFFBwZhS--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/17i1x85u0n6t0jpg.jpg

[UrinalCake]

More examples of surrender cobra.

8136

[HereBeforeCoachK]

More examples of surrender cobra.

Ah the cobra always looks great in light blue!

[FerryFor50]

I think if you went back and watched the game, you'll see that Miami repeatedly exploited your pick-n-roll defense. (Don't feel alone, we've been there). Sometimes with very pretty, clever plays.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FlickeringEagerLiger-size_restricted.gif

I'd say some coaching was involved there.

You'll also notice that whenever UNC threw a surprise at Miami -- a run&jump defensive possession, for example -- Miami was prepared for it.



There's a pretty good chance that in a few days you'll also have to give Larranaga credit for having the same ACC record as Roy despite missing his best player for the final 10 games of the season due to injury.

It did take Larranaga a while to adjust to that pick and roll defense. UNC went on a run where they were flummoxing Miami's offense. Was driving me batty seeing Miami dribble out the shot clock without any clue on offense and throwing up bad shot after bad shot. Then, Larranaga finally adjusted once UNC got within striking distance. Would have been nice to see that when Miami was still up by double digits.

[Troublemaker]

It did take Larranaga a while to adjust to that pick and roll defense. UNC went on a run where they were flummoxing Miami's offense. Was driving me batty seeing Miami dribble out the shot clock without any clue on offense and throwing up bad shot after bad shot. Then, Larranaga finally adjusted once UNC got within striking distance. Would have been nice to see that when Miami was still up by double digits.

Miami scored 91 points, which translated to a 133 offensive efficiency, easily the highest that UNC's defense has allowed this season.

Basketball's a game of runs, and no team is going to score literally every trip down the floor. I'm okay with how Miami performed. They were also double-digit underdogs.

[UrinalCake]

I’ve been perusing IC this morning. Their fans are bemoaning their lack of defense, inability to defend the pick and roll, short bench, and over reliance on the three. It’s like bizarro world!

[devildeac]

If Duke beats UNC on Saturday, I can't see any way UNC gets a 3 seed, right? I've tried a few combinations using that link and can't seem to find a way. Maybe one of you tiebreaker gurus can be more creative and find the magic combo.

But, assuming I'm right, then this Saturday's clash between Duke and UNC will decide the pie bet between Wheat and me. (Our bet was on whether UNC will be a top-3 seed in the ACC tourney).

Gotta say, even though I've defended this Duke team all season, I have my limits. I'm only human. If we get swept by UNC on Senior Night for Grayson, costing me a pie, this Duke team will immediately become one of my least favorite of all time. I don't expect that to happen, though.


Wow, strong words (assuming you're serious with your statement-my sarcasm/serious meter is still being calibrated this am:o:confused:). Will it be due to the loss of a bet, the performance or both?

[Troublemaker]

Wow, strong words (assuming you're serious with your statement-my sarcasm/serious meter is still being calibrated this am:o:confused:). Will it be due to the loss of a bet, the performance or both?

Well, ranking low on my hypothetical list (I have a basic idea but haven't ever written it down or fleshed it out) is still a good place to be. The team would still be loved, just not as much some other teams. I'm not sure any fan loves every single season equally.

[bedeviled]

I’ve been perusing IC this morning. Their fans are bemoaning their lack of defense, inability to defend the pick and roll, short bench, and over reliance on the three. It’s like bizarro world!On the flip side, here's a particularly enjoyable Twitter clip (https://twitter.com/BarstoolPack/status/968704056783929344) supporting the concept of 'same as it ever was' (side-by-side video of Nova vs UNC and Miami vs UNC)

[wobatus]

It pains me but I'll always give Berry props. Kid has made big shot after big shot in the biggest of games.

So it's appropriate that his senior ends like that....great game.


Yeah, respect that. I'm too old to hate on other team's players just for being on those teams. I have to have a real reason. I had to re-assess Allen because Berry said he was a good guy. I obviously don't know him but from what I know I respect, and he's obviously a money player.

If you had no rooting interest it was a good game, not much D, but a fun slug-fest with some great shot-making. Reminded me some of the OOC UNC-Kentucky game last year, with obviously more at stake in this one.

[Rich]

On the flip side, here's a particularly enjoyable Twitter clip (https://twitter.com/BarstoolPack/status/968704056783929344) supporting the concept of 'same as it ever was' (side-by-side video of Nova vs UNC and Miami vs UNC)

I'd say the only problem is that they happened to win a National Championship in between. :mad:

[devildeac]

Well, ranking low on my hypothetical list (I have a basic idea but haven't ever written it down or fleshed it out) is still a good place to be. The team would still be loved, just not as much some other teams. I'm not sure any fan loves every single season equally.

Understood. Thanks. Might be similar to my perspective with some really good games and a few stinkers, too.

[dukelifer]

On the flip side, here's a particularly enjoyable Twitter clip (https://twitter.com/BarstoolPack/status/968704056783929344) supporting the concept of 'same as it ever was' (side-by-side video of Nova vs UNC and Miami vs UNC)

That is impressive. The UNC fans should be mentally prepared for such endings now.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

On the flip side, here's a particularly enjoyable Twitter clip (https://twitter.com/BarstoolPack/status/968704056783929344) supporting the concept of 'same as it ever was' (side-by-side video of Nova vs UNC and Miami vs UNC)
The cheater/pack fan war on that thread is truly hilarious!

[pfrduke]

Bonzie Colson has 8 points and 5 boards in the first 6:45. I think the Irish are happy to have him back.

[Tripping William]

Go Noles!

[rasputin]

In last night's Notre Dame game, they showed a nice Senior Night moment from before the game. They played the Lithuanian national anthem in honor of senior Martinas Geben, and it was touching.

[OldPhiKap]

In last night's Notre Dame game, they showed a nice Senior Night moment from before the game. They played the Lithuanian national anthem in honor of senior Martinas Geben, and it was touching.

Did they serve trunk meat at halftime?


(Actually, very cool of ND to do that)

[JasonEvans]

Thanks, Ga Tech... we sorta needed that insurance.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

You’ve got to be kidding me!

[duke4ever19]

You’ve got to be kidding me!

Unbelievable. When it rains in Louisville it pours.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Well, wow.

[weezie]

Holy moly. Sorry, but I feel bad for looville players.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I think you have to actively try to lose a game that way. Up 4 with 6.1 seconds and you lose? Really?

I wonder what the lead safety equation said about that one...

Edit: Pause and think about the impact of the UVA lane violation on that last purposefully missed free throw. UL rebounded the ball but the UVA lane violation stopped the clock with enough time for a shot to be made after Adel impersonated Hanstravel. Unreal.

[knicknut]

Wow.

And thanks to a terrible foul call on that 3. (Granted, the freshman shouldn't have given the refs a chance to make that mistake.)

Cardinal sin to run the baseline like that as well.

[JasonEvans]

Karma just rained down on the 2nd most crooked team in the ACC.

They will remember that moment when the NIT brackets are announced.

[BigWayne]

I noticed the ref signaling no traveling allowed before handing the ball to the soon to be scapegoat. He was unusually demonstrative. No excuse. Even ESPN caught it and did a replay of it.

[UrinalCake]

Unreal ending to the UVA/Louisville game. As if Louisville fans needed yet another kick to the groin.

- Louisville up 4 with under 10 seconds left after hitting free throws. No way they can lose this, right?
- Louisville fouls a UVA player shooting a three. I thought it was a bad call.
- UVA player hits the first two, then intentionally misses the second. Louisville secures the rebound as time expires, but the refs call a lane violation on UVA, giving the ball to Louisville with 0.9 seconds left. Ok, game over anyways, right?
- Louisville runs the baseline while inbounding the ball, which you’re allowed to do after a made free throw. But since this was after a lane violation, that counts as a travel and UVA gets possession trailing by 2
- still with 0.9 seconds, UVA runs a perfect play - inbounds and immediate three pointer that banks in

One of the craziest endings I’ve ever seen!

[ncexnyc]

Unreal ending to the UVA/Louisville game. As if Louisville fans needed yet another kick to the groin.

- Louisville up 4 with under 10 seconds left after hitting free throws. No way they can lose this, right?
- Louisville fouls a UVA player shooting a three. I thought it was a bad call.
- UVA player hits the first two, then intentionally misses the second. Louisville secures the rebound as time expires, but the refs call a lane violation on UVA, giving the ball to Louisville with 0.9 seconds left. Ok, game over anyways, right?
- Louisville runs the baseline while inbounding the ball, which you’re allowed to do after a made free throw. But since this was after a lane violation, that counts as a travel and UVA gets possession trailing by 2
- still with 0.9 seconds, UVA runs a perfect play - inbounds and immediate three pointer that banks in

One of the craziest endings I’ve ever seen!

Seems like I just stepped into the Twilight Zone, as I turned off my ESPN feed after the lane violation.

[Newton_14]

Unreal ending to the UVA/Louisville game. As if Louisville fans needed yet another kick to the groin.

- Louisville up 4 with under 10 seconds left after hitting free throws. No way they can lose this, right?
- Louisville fouls a UVA player shooting a three. I thought it was a bad call.
- UVA player hits the first two, then intentionally misses the second. Louisville secures the rebound as time expires, but the refs call a lane violation on UVA, giving the ball to Louisville with 0.9 seconds left. Ok, game over anyways, right?
- Louisville runs the baseline while inbounding the ball, which you’re allowed to do after a made free throw. But since this was after a lane violation, that counts as a travel and UVA gets possession trailing by 2
- still with 0.9 seconds, UVA runs a perfect play - inbounds and immediate three pointer that banks in

One of the craziest endings I’ve ever seen!
How to lose a certain win by Louisville. Up 4 with less than 4 seconds. Up 2 with the ball with 0.9 seconds. In my 46+ years of watching ACC Basketball, that's worst blunder ending ever, surpassing my previous Number 1 which happened in the late 70's in Reynolds between NC State and unc. State was down 20 at the half. They came roaring back and had the lead and the ball with less than 5 seconds to go. Clyde Austin had the ball and was dribbling out near midcourt when he inexplicably looks up at the clock on the midcourt scoreboard to see how much time was left. Dudley Bradley stole the ball and dunked just before the buzzer.

I had a small rubber basketball in my hand, and was watching with my mom and older brother. I threw the ball up against the far wall from the couch and it ricocheted off the wall, the tv, and another wall. I then ran to my room and cried for 15 minutes screaming how unfair it was that unc won!

Tonight tops that ending for me. Dude, stand still and throw the ball anywhere toward a teammate and you win the game. Unbelievable!!1

[UrinalCake]

I still want another crack at UVA, I think we can beat them.

[UrinalCake]

Dude, stand still and throw the ball anywhere toward a teammate and you win the game. Unbelievable!!1

With 0.9 seconds left, you could throw the ball directly at a Virginia player and it is unlikely he would get a shot off before the buzzer expires.

[ChillinDuke]

Man it was gonna be interesting to see what happens to Virginia coming off a loss, going into a game with a Notre Dame squad with Bonzie back needing a signature win.

Then what would a two game skid do to them entering the ACCT.

But now that dream is, well, a dream...

- Chillin

[OldPhiKap]

I still hate Louisville for ‘86. 9F them, too.

[duketaylor]

With 0.9 seconds left, you could throw the ball directly at a Virginia player and it is unlikely he would get a shot off before the buzzer expires.

To wit, why not just bounce it off his foot, knee, or any other body part. Game over. Bad coaching move by Loserville and bad officiating to set up such an ending.

[devildeac]

I think you have to actively try to lose a game that way. Up 4 with 6.1 seconds and you lose? Really?

I wonder what the lead safety equation said about that one...

Edit: Pause and think about the impact of the UVA lane violation on that last purposefully missed free throw. UL rebounded the ball but the UVA lane violation stopped the clock with enough time for a shot to be made after Adel impersonated Hanstravel. Unreal.

37.5% safe.

[Wahoo2000]

I still want another crack at UVA, I think we can beat them.

Who wouldn't, after watching that? We (UVA) were playing MUCH better back in January than recently. I just don't think there's a ton of separation between top 10-15 teams in general...... maybe not all that much difference in the top 30.

[rocketeli]

This week all three triangle teams lost, with state petting the pooch against GT last night. Of all the losses I hate Duke's the least. After all, we lost to a pretty good team, well coached, on the road, that had everything to play for. unCheat and State can't say all of those things.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

To wit, why not just bounce it off his foot, knee, or any other body part. Game over. Bad coaching move by Loserville and bad officiating to set up such an ending.

You throw the ball 75 feet, period. Your own guy catches it, you win. The other guy catches it, you still win. Period. I was sitting there not believing what I was seeing on the out of bounds, and thought man, they might've just lost the game.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

You throw the ball 75 feet, period. Your own guy catches it, you win. The other guy catches it, you still win. Period. I was sitting there not believing what I was seeing on the out of bounds, and thought man, they might've just lost the game.

Truly poor coaching. No way around that. Unless coach told him clearly what to do and the player had a brain fart, there's no excuse for that sort of mental lapse.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Truly poor coaching. No way around that. Unless coach told him clearly what to do and the player had a brain fart, there's no excuse for that sort of mental lapse.

I don't think the coach had the presence of mind to make that call....the way they set up, they were trying to inbound the ball underneath their own basket. Truly shameful coaching. This is middle school stuff. I decided last night that Padgett is not the answer Louisville needs as permanent head coach. He's been in a very tough situation, no doubt, but he's only done a so so job in that situation, given his talent. And last night? You can't EVER make that particular mistake as a head coach. NOT EVER.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I don't think the coach had the presence of mind to make that call...the way they set up, they were trying to inbound the ball underneath their own basket. Truly shameful coaching. This is middle school stuff. I decided last night that Padgett is not the answer Louisville needs as permanent head coach. He's been in a very tough situation, no doubt, but he's only done a so so job in that situation, given his talent. And last night? You can't EVER make that particular mistake as a head coach. NOT EVER.

Especially coupled with not telling his guys to NOT FOUL IN ANY SCENARIO up FOUR. Nether of these two flubs should have happened. It took extreme mental lapses to give UVa a tiny opportunity that - to their credit - they took advantage of.

Crazy night.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Especially coupled with not telling his guys to NOT FOUL IN ANY SCENARIO up FOUR. Nether of these two flubs should have happened. It took extreme mental lapses to give UVa a tiny opportunity that - to their credit - they took advantage of.

Crazy night.

Yep, that too.....I only give the coach a tiny bit....TINY bit....of leeway there because that was a ticky tack call.....but you're right, a made 3 does nothing to hurt you at that point.

[dukelifer]

Unreal ending to the UVA/Louisville game. As if Louisville fans needed yet another kick to the groin.

- Louisville up 4 with under 10 seconds left after hitting free throws. No way they can lose this, right?
- Louisville fouls a UVA player shooting a three. I thought it was a bad call.
- UVA player hits the first two, then intentionally misses the second. Louisville secures the rebound as time expires, but the refs call a lane violation on UVA, giving the ball to Louisville with 0.9 seconds left. Ok, game over anyways, right?
- Louisville runs the baseline while inbounding the ball, which you’re allowed to do after a made free throw. But since this was after a lane violation, that counts as a travel and UVA gets possession trailing by 2
- still with 0.9 seconds, UVA runs a perfect play - inbounds and immediate three pointer that banks in

One of the craziest endings I’ve ever seen!

The basketball gods had a role in this one. No way Louisville loses and yet somehow they do. This was destined to happen- a loss to kick a program when it is down. This game also shows why I do not think UVa is a FF team. I think they are vulnerable and will falter with the pressure on.

[flyingdutchdevil]

The basketball gods had a role in this one. No way Louisville loses and yet somehow they do. This was destined to happen- a loss to kick a program when it is down. This game also shows why I do not think UVa is a FF team. I think they are vulnerable and will falter with the pressure on.

I don't think any team in the last 4 seconds will ever be as composed as UVa was two nights ago.

Also, do you think Duke is a FF team despite our inability to hold onto a lead? To me, that's a much bigger problem than UVa's "issues" two nights ago.

I hope talent > (experience + discipline), but, right now, I have UVa as the most surefire FF team.

[freshmanjs]

I don't think any team in the last 4 seconds will ever be as composed as UVa was two nights ago.

Also, do you think Duke is a FF team despite our inability to hold onto a lead? To me, that's a much bigger problem than UVa's "issues" two nights ago.

I hope talent > (experience + discipline), but, right now, I have UVa as the most surefire FF team.

What happened 2 nights ago? Or, are you just referring to last night's game?

[UrinalCake]

Who wouldn't, after watching that? We (UVA) were playing MUCH better back in January than recently. I just don't think there's a ton of separation between top 10-15 teams in general... maybe not all that much difference in the top 30.

I’m willing to cut a team some slack for not playing their absolute hardest in a situation where they’ve already locked up the #1 seed in the ACCT and have likely locked up a #1 in the NCAAT. Even for such a well-coaches, experienced team there is going to be a natural let up. Give them credit for continuing to play when the game was all but over.

As for the Louisville player inbounding the ball, maybe I’m just feeling generous today but I’m not going to dump on him too much either. The players are accustomed to running the baseline after a made free throw, they’ve done it a thousand times in their lives, and this “felt” like a made free throw even though it wasn’t. I think he just relied on instinct. Kind of like when you’re driving home from work and you know you have to stop at the store first, but your brain goes on autopilot and you wind up at home. And yes, I get that the ref did signal to him that he couldn’t move his feet. But still, I’ve done much dumber things in my life.

[TexHawk]

Apparently Louisville is now vacating wins with 0.9 seconds left.

(Stolen from Twitter.)

[Troublemaker]

I don't think any team in the last 4 seconds will ever be as composed as UVa was two nights ago.

lol, UVA wasn't any more composed than a normal team in that situation. UVA had a lane violation, and their game-winning shot was a lucky banker. And "composure" does not win you a game that you trail by 4 with one second left. Louisville lit itself on fire. That's what happened.

All that said, UVA's a really good team/program, and as I've written before, I don't buy that they have an NCAAT problem.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

lol, UVA wasn't any more composed than a normal team in that situation. UVA had a lane violation, and their game-winning shot was a lucky banker. And "composure" does not win you a game that you trail by 4 with one second left. Louisville lit itself on fire. That's what happened.

All that said, UVA's a really good team/program, and as I've written before, I don't buy that they have an NCAAT problem.
... after dousing themselves in gasoline!

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Apparently Louisville is now vacating wins with 0.9 seconds left.

(Stolen from Twitter.)

Now THATS funny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFlCD5CYAcU

[Neals384]

Wow.

And thanks to a terrible foul call on that 3. (Granted, the freshman shouldn't have given the refs a chance to make that mistake.)

Cardinal sin to run the baseline like that as well.

i see what you did there!

[flyingdutchdevil]

lol, UVA wasn't any more composed than a normal team in that situation. UVA had a lane violation, and their game-winning shot was a lucky banker. And "composure" does not win you a game that you trail by 4 with one second left. Louisville lit itself on fire. That's what happened.

All that said, UVA's a really good team/program, and as I've written before, I don't buy that they have an NCAAT problem.

To each his own. To hit 2 shots in 4 seconds and play amazing defense to get the opposing team to commit a turnover is 'composure' to me.

Yes, Louisville helped UVa, but UVa was spectacular. They are the one team I don't want to meet in the tournament. The best coached team with the best defense.

[Troublemaker]

To each his own. To hit 2 shots in 4 seconds and play amazing defense to get the opposing team to commit a turnover is 'composure' to me.

Yes, Louisville helped UVa, but UVa was spectacular. They are the one team I don't want to meet in the tournament. The best coached team with the best defense.

You are wrong, though, about everything. They didn't hit two shots. They were down 4 with one second left, then Louisville unnecessarily fouled a three-point shooter; the actual shot fell 10 feet short of the basket, likely because of the foul. They hit the first two free throws (so composure there, yes), but then they committed a lane violation (lack of composure). Then, UVA didn't "play amazing defense to force a turnover," lol. The Louisville player forced a turnover on himself by running the baseline after the referee had clearly explained that he couldn't run the baseline. Then UVA got to inbound the ball, and it went to Hunter who banked in a 3-pointer, which is luck, not composure.

Look, UVA is very good program that can be admired for a lot of things, including, in a general sense, yes, their composure. But composure was NOT what won the game for them, and they were not any more composed than most teams would be in that situation, especially since they were supposed to lose in that situation and therefore the pressure was off. Louisville's blunders won the game for UVA.

Admire UVA, but admire them appropriately, for things that they actually deserve the bulk of the credit for. For example: Bennett going smallball was a great maneuver that got them back into the game. Admire them for that.

[tbyers11]

You are wrong, though, about everything. They didn't hit two shots. They were down 4 with one second left, then Louisville unnecessarily fouled a three-point shooter; the actual shot fell 10 feet short of the basket, likely because of the foul. They hit the first two free throws (so composure there, yes), but then they committed a lane violation (lack of composure). Then, UVA didn't "play amazing defense to force a turnover," lol. The Louisville player forced a turnover on himself by running the baseline after the referee had clearly explained that he couldn't run the baseline. Then UVA got to inbound the ball, and it went to Hunter who banked in a 3-pointer, which is luck, not composure.

Look, UVA is very good program that can be admired for a lot of things, including, in a general sense, yes, their composure. But composure was NOT what won the game for them, and they were not any more composed than most teams would be in that situation, especially since they were supposed to lose in that situation and therefore the pressure was off. Louisville's blunders won the game for UVA.

Admire UVA, but admire them appropriately, for things that they actually deserve the bulk of the credit for. For example: Bennett going smallball was a great maneuver that got them back into the game. Admire them for that.

UVA was composed to get back from 10 down with ~4 min to play to even with about `1 min to play.

However, I do agree that the composure had nothing to do with the final 6 seconds. Louisville self-destructed 5 different ways

[HereBeforeCoachK]

You are wrong, though, about everything......Look, UVA is very good program that can be admired for a lot of things, including, in a general sense, yes, their composure. But composure was NOT what won the game for them,

TRUE DAT^^^ when you boil it down, two screw ups by UVa worked in their favor in the final few seconds....the lane violation, and the terrible shot, which banked in accidentally. Throw in total brain deadness on the part of UL, and there you have it. UVa composure had little to do with it. In fact, I would say they looked beat, knew it, and can't quite believe it themselves what happened.

[Troublemaker]

UVA was composed to get back from 10 down with ~4 min to play to even with about `1 min to play.

However, I do agree that the composure had nothing to do with the final 6 seconds. Louisville self-destructed 5 different ways

I agree. That smallball lineup that Bennett went to caused Louisville all sorts of problems.

It was actually reminiscent of two Duke-UVA games: 2014 and 2016, both in Cameron. In both games, UVA used a smallball lineup to climb back into the game down the stretch and almost steal a win.

[JasonEvans]

I just think it is worth pointing out that that was much more than a loss for Louisville. They were pretty firmly on the bubble and that win would have put them in the tournament, no questions asked. Instead, they are desperate for at least one more victory and possibly two. To some extent, their whole post season fate was determined by the worst two seconds of decisions that you will ever see anywhere.

Jason “and David Padget will be lucky to get a YMCA rec league coaching job after what he has done with a preseason top ten team this year” Evans

[dukelifer]

I don't think any team in the last 4 seconds will ever be as composed as UVa was two nights ago.

Also, do you think Duke is a FF team despite our inability to hold onto a lead? To me, that's a much bigger problem than UVa's "issues" two nights ago.

I hope talent > (experience + discipline), but, right now, I have UVa as the most surefire FF team.

I do not think Duke is a surefire FF team- but that is a whole different discussion. Actually, I don't see any team as surefire. This is a strange season to be sure. UVa's issues are more about whether they can overcome their past of failing on the big stage. We shall see.

[BigWayne]

You throw the ball 75 feet, period. Your own guy catches it, you win. The other guy catches it, you still win. Period. I was sitting there not believing what I was seeing on the out of bounds, and thought man, they might've just lost the game.

I was thinking the same thing and fearing the only thing that could lose it would be that he sailed it over everyone and out of bounds, which would mean UVA would get the ball back at the original spot. Never did I think the guy would run the baseline.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I was thinking the same thing and fearing the only thing that could lose it would be that he sailed it over everyone and out of bounds, which would mean UVA would get the ball back at the original spot. Never did I think the guy would run the baseline.

Correct, but if you have 3 players down there, maybe 4, there's no chance of that happening. You would put U Va in the position of having to catch it and then trying to heave it 80 feet with almost no time. It's one thing to catch and shoot a 22 footer off a short pass you know is coming to you- quite another to intercept the ball, maybe on the run, and heave it 80 feet. Probably couldn't even get it off in time.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I just think it is worth pointing out that that was much more than a loss for Louisville. They were pretty firmly on the bubble and that win would have put them in the tournament, no questions asked. Instead, they are desperate for at least one more victory and possibly two. To some extent, their whole post season fate was determined by the worst two seconds of decisions that you will ever see anywhere.

Jason “and David Padget will be lucky to get a YMCA rec league coaching job after what he has done with a preseason top ten team this year” Evans

Disagree. He'll get a pass. The distractions surrounding the 'Ville are enough to extend Padget another year.

[DarkstarWahoo]

What happened 2 nights ago? Or, are you just referring to last night's game?

Hunter turned his ankle in practice and dudes were chill about it. I’m sure that’s what OP was referring to.

(He really did turn his ankle, which I hope is why he was invisible for most of the game.)

That ending...man. You could watch a million games and not see that sequence of events. Shoutout also to the refs for inexplicably looking at the clock after the Adel travel, allowing Tony to draw up a play with no timeouts. Just one of the million things that had to go right for UVA to win.

[flyingdutchdevil]

You are wrong, though, about everything. They didn't hit two shots. They were down 4 with one second left, then Louisville unnecessarily fouled a three-point shooter; the actual shot fell 10 feet short of the basket, likely because of the foul. They hit the first two free throws (so composure there, yes), but then they committed a lane violation (lack of composure). Then, UVA didn't "play amazing defense to force a turnover," lol. The Louisville player forced a turnover on himself by running the baseline after the referee had clearly explained that he couldn't run the baseline. Then UVA got to inbound the ball, and it went to Hunter who banked in a 3-pointer, which is luck, not composure.

Look, UVA is very good program that can be admired for a lot of things, including, in a general sense, yes, their composure. But composure was NOT what won the game for them, and they were not any more composed than most teams would be in that situation, especially since they were supposed to lose in that situation and therefore the pressure was off. Louisville's blunders won the game for UVA.

Admire UVA, but admire them appropriately, for things that they actually deserve the bulk of the credit for. For example: Bennett going smallball was a great maneuver that got them back into the game. Admire them for that.

Thanks for the 'lol's in multiple posts! Glad to see you're reading the civility threads.

Re-watch the turnover. UVa plays unbelievable denial D. It forces the in-bounds player to run to get the ball to the player in the top left of the court. Yeah- the Louisville player was an idiot to run the baseline. But UVa's D was enough that he panicked last second in order to do so.

UVa could easily have fouled. UVa could easily have missed FTs. UVa could easily - and probably should have - missed that 3. But they didn't. To me, that's composure.

[Troublemaker]

Thanks for the 'lol's in multiple posts! Glad to see you're reading the civility threads.

It depends on how you are interpreting "lol" in your mind. Please note that my intention is to say: "Dear sir, you have made me guffaw with the absurdness of your point, but I still regard you as a gentleman," which seems civil enough. However, I will take it under advisement that it may not be received that way.



Re-watch the turnover. UVa plays unbelievable denial D. It forces the in-bounds player to run to get the ball to the player in the top left of the court. Yeah- the Louisville player was an idiot to run the baseline. But UVa's D was enough that he panicked last second in order to do so.

UVa could easily have fouled. UVa could easily have missed FTs. UVa could easily - and probably should have - missed that 3. But they didn't. To me, that's composure.

Yeah, we're going to have to agree to disagree. UVA's "denial defense" is irrelevant to the play. As others have mentioned, lob it long and touch it, and Louisville wins the game. Padgett should've called his remaining timeout to ensure this happened, or the Louisville players should've figured it out on their own. It was a self-inflicted turnover, not a forced turnover.

[flyingdutchdevil]

It depends on how you are interpreting "lol" in your mind. Please note that my intention is to say: "Dear sir, you have made me guffaw with the absurdness of your point, but I still regard you as a gentleman," which seems civil enough. However, I will take it under advisement that it may not be received that way.



Yeah, we're going to have to agree to disagree. UVA's "denial defense" is irrelevant to the play. As others have mentioned, lob it long and touch it, and Louisville wins the game. It was a self-inflicted turnover, not a forced turnover.

This we do not disagree on. THe Ville player could have taken many approaches but he was hell-bent on passing it to an open man. As a result, UVa's D in that case is relevant. Cus it prevented the only strategy the Ville player thought he should take.

[CDu]

Thanks for the 'lol's in multiple posts! Glad to see you're reading the civility threads.

Re-watch the turnover. UVa plays unbelievable denial D. It forces the in-bounds player to run to get the ball to the player in the top left of the court. Yeah- the Louisville player was an idiot to run the baseline. But UVa's D was enough that he panicked last second in order to do so.

UVa could easily have fouled. UVa could easily have missed FTs. UVa could easily - and probably should have - missed that 3. But they didn't. To me, that's composure.

I disagree. Composure didn’t draw the shooting foul that stopped the clock (that was a Louisville brain fart). A LACK of composure caused the lane violation, which is what caused the stationary in-bounds (any other circumstance leads to a win for Louisville). Composure didn’t cause the turnover on the inbounds (that was normal denial defense plus a brain fart). And composure didn’t cause the banked 3 to go in (that was luck on a bad shot).

[flyingdutchdevil]

I disagree. Composure didn’t draw the shooting foul that stopped the clock (that was a Louisville brain fart). A LACK of composure caused the lane violation, which is what caused the stationary in-bounds (any other circumstance leads to a win for Louisville). Composure didn’t cause the turnover on the inbounds (that was normal denial defense plus a brain fart). And composure didn’t cause the banked 3 to go in (that was luck on a bad shot).

Well clearly, I stand alone here. I don't think UVa wins that game if they aren't composed. They clearly don't win if 'Ville plays a fraction smarter than they did (which isn't saying much). And they don't win without a little luck.

[UrinalCake]

I was thinking the same thing and fearing the only thing that could lose it would be that he sailed it over everyone and out of bounds, which would mean UVA would get the ball back at the original spot. Never did I think the guy would run the baseline.

The other thing that could happen is that the ball hits the scoreboard in the middle of the court, which would be out of bounds. I've never actually seen this happen in all my years of watching basketball, but it always feels like it *could* happen.

[CDu]

Well clearly, I stand alone here. I don't think UVa wins that game if they aren't composed. They clearly don't win if 'Ville plays a fraction smarter than they did (which isn't saying much). And they don't win without a little luck.

I mean, UVa wasn’t completely UNcomposed. But they weren’t in any way impressively composed. And their composure had quite literally next to nothing to do with the win in the final seconds. It really was all on Louisville.

If Louisville doesn’t foul, Louisville wins. If UVa doesn’t goof up and commit a lane violation, Louisville wins. If Adel doesn’t lose his mind on the inbounds, Louisville wins. And if UVa doesn’t get a lucky bank, Louisville wins.

I mean, credit to UVa for not quitting. But nothing about those final seconds impressed me about UVa. It was all about Louisville’s collapse plus two lucky breaks for UVa.

[devildeac]

The other thing that could happen is that the ball hits the scoreboard in the middle of the court, which would be out of bounds. I've never actually seen this happen in all my years of watching basketball, but it always feels like it *could* happen.

Wake Forest fans would beg to differ (ACCT maybe 30 years ago?). Scenario: WFU up 4 on the cheaters with about 30 seconds to go. WFU throws a long pass for a layup to go up 6 and take about 5 seconds off the clock. Refs say it "hit" a scoreboard wire so no bucket or time off clock and cheats get to inbound under their own basket, down 4 instead of 6 and not having to go 94 feet to score. They score and game goes to OT (details fuzzy here) and on to win. No wonder DarkStarWahoo mentions the "improbable" or "impossible" unc comebacks s/he has seen over the years. Still makes me :mad::mad:.

(I know someone will help me with my memory on this one.:))

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Wake Forest fans would beg to differ (ACCT maybe 30 years ago?). Scenario: WFU up 4 on the cheaters with about 30 seconds to go. WFU throws a long pass for a layup to go up 6 and take about 5 seconds off the clock. Refs say it "hit" a scoreboard wire so no bucket or time off clock and cheats get to inbound under their own basket, down 4 instead of 6 and not having to go 94 feet to score. They score and game goes to OT (details fuzzy here) and on to win. No wonder DarkStarWahoo mentions the "improbable" or "impossible" unc comebacks s/he has seen over the years. Still makes me :mad::mad:.

(I know someone will help me with my memory on this one.:))

Late 70s, maybe mid 70s? ACCT in Greensboro?

[Troublemaker]

Well clearly, I stand alone here. I don't think UVa wins that game if they aren't composed. They clearly don't win if 'Ville plays a fraction smarter than they did (which isn't saying much). And they don't win without a little luck.

I can agree with that, but that's different from how you stated things at the beginning of this back and forth. As a reminder, you wrote:


I don't think any team in the last 4 seconds will ever be as composed as UVa was

You talked up the specialness of UVA's composure in the final seconds contributing to the victory.

Now, if you want to amend that to say that UVA had run-of-the mill composure (including a lane violation and an off-target shot that just happened to bank in), that UVA just used the same strategy that any other team would use in that situation, and that Louisville's collapse in the final seconds was almost all self-inflicted, then we're in total agreement.

[Hingeknocker]

I mean, UVa wasn’t completely UNcomposed. But they weren’t in any way impressively composed. And their composure had quite literally next to nothing to do with the win in the final seconds. It really was all on Louisville.

If Louisville doesn’t foul, Louisville wins. If UVa doesn’t goof up and commit a lane violation, Louisville wins. If Adel doesn’t lose his mind on the inbounds, Louisville wins. And if UVa doesn’t get a lucky bank, Louisville wins.

I mean, credit to UVa for not quitting. But nothing about those final seconds impressed me about UVa. It was all about Louisville’s collapse plus two lucky breaks for UVa.

My take is that the whole debate about who was composed and the degree to which they exhibited said composure, is all actually meaningless. I concede that it's possible that one team is more or less composed than the other, but our observational skills cannot discern whether and how this plays out. Just because you make a bad foul, for example, it doesn't mean you lack the elusive "composure" trait. It might just be that you made a bad decision. And I lump pretty much all of these adjectives (composure, effort, want-to ((or, wont-to, for Ol' Roy)), moxie, grit, etc.) into the same category of post-hoc tautologies that don't mean anything.

[DarkstarWahoo]

I do think this particular UVA team has a calmness and confidence that means something. I think it stems from Jerome, and even if the improbable last 10 seconds aren’t a great example of it, erasing a 10-point deficit in the two minutes prior certainly is.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

My take is that the whole debate about who was composed and the degree to which they exhibited said composure, is all actually meaningless. I concede that it's possible that one team is more or less composed than the other, but our observational skills cannot discern whether and how this plays out. Just because you make a bad foul, for example, it doesn't mean you lack the elusive "composure" trait. It might just be that you made a bad decision. And I lump pretty much all of these adjectives (composure, effort, want-to ((or, wont-to, for Ol' Roy)), moxie, grit, etc.) into the same category of post-hoc tautologies that don't mean anything.

I would only say this: composure is normally attributed to a team that does everything right in order to make an against the odds comeback. For example, Duke showed great composure when K said "we're going to win" and Grant threw the perfect pass to Laettner who hit the perfect shot, without banking it. Duke showed great composure with the 10 points in 54 second comeback in College Park.

In any wild finish like these, there are combinations of elements of luck, elements of composure by the winners, and normally at least some lack of composure by the losers. For the Kentucky game, it was no lack on Kentucky's part except maybe a flawed defensive plan, or fear of fouling Laettner, but there was a ton of composure on Duke's part. The only real luck was Wood's unintentional bank shot with 2.1 left. At Maryland, the Terps came apart and Duke was perfect for that last minute.

Last night, it was mostly dumb luck and UL lacking composure. That's not to say there wasn't an element of composure to U Va. It just wasn't the biggest factor IMO compared to some other examples.

[CDu]

My take is that the whole debate about who was composed and the degree to which they exhibited said composure, is all actually meaningless. I concede that it's possible that one team is more or less composed than the other, but our observational skills cannot discern whether and how this plays out. Just because you make a bad foul, for example, it doesn't mean you lack the elusive "composure" trait. It might just be that you made a bad decision. And I lump pretty much all of these adjectives (composure, effort, want-to ((or, wont-to, for Ol' Roy)), moxie, grit, etc.) into the same category of post-hoc tautologies that don't mean anything.

I don't disagree with any of this, but I don't think it really applies to this discussion. Nobody is saying that UVa or Louisville has or lacks the "composure trait". We are strictly talking about what was exhibited in that final-seconds sequence last night.

In those final seconds, Louisville displayed a serious lack of composure/decisionmaking/execution/whatever. Does not mean that they lack the composure/decisionmaking/execution/whatever trait. Just that they didn't exhibit in those final seconds (and consistently didn't exhibit it).

In those final seconds, UVa didn't display excellent composure or a noteworthy lack of composure. That doesn't mean that they have or lack composure. Just that their performance in those final seconds was neither a clear indication of noteworthy composure nor a clear indication that they lack it.

The comment that sparked this discussion was something to the effect of "I can't imagine any team showing more composure than UVa did there". Again, not a statement about a permanent trait; just a comment about whether/how that trait was displayed in that sequence. And in response, some of us have voiced our disagreement, saying that UVa didn't really do anything noteworthy, and that it was Louisville choking multiple times plus two lucky breaks in UVa's favor that was the noteworthy aspect of that end-game.

[robed deity]

I do think this particular UVA team has a calmness and confidence that means something. I think it stems from Jerome, and even if the improbable last 10 seconds aren’t a great example of it, erasing a 10-point deficit in the two minutes prior certainly is.

I agree. That 3 he hit in Cameron was cold blooded. He has a swagger that helps them a lot, and if they go far, he'll be a huge reason why.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I don't disagree with any of this, but I don't think it really applies to this discussion. Nobody is saying that UVa or Louisville has or lacks the "composure trait". We are strictly talking about what was exhibited in that final-seconds sequence last night.

In those final seconds, Louisville displayed a serious lack of composure/decisionmaking/execution/whatever. Does not mean that they lack the composure/decisionmaking/execution/whatever trait. Just that they didn't exhibit in those final seconds (and consistently didn't exhibit it).

In those final seconds, UVa didn't display excellent composure or a noteworthy lack of composure. That doesn't mean that they have or lack composure. Just that their performance in those final seconds was neither a clear indication of noteworthy composure nor a clear indication that they lack it.

The comment that sparked this discussion was something to the effect of "I can't imagine any team showing more composure than UVa did there". Again, not a statement about a permanent trait; just a comment about whether/how that trait was displayed in that sequence. And in response, some of us have voiced our disagreement, saying that UVa didn't really do anything noteworthy, and that it was Louisville choking multiple times plus two lucky breaks in UVa's favor that was the noteworthy aspect of that end-game.

Can I ask what excellent composure would like in those last ~20 seconds of play from UVa? I get - and agree - that the 'Ville lacked complete composure. But UVa had a lot of it. I'm sadly convinced that Duke would not have been able to pull that off (or any other team!). I think we would have fouled with 0.9 left. I think we may not have gotten a prayer up with a player in good position.

To me, this UVa team is calm, steady, and composed. And those final seconds showed it. Just because the opposing team makes plenty of mistakes doesn't mean you cannot praise the team that didn't make said mistakes.

[devildeac]

Late 70s, maybe mid 70s? ACCT in Greensboro?

Upon further review, that sounds more like the correct time frame.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

To me, this UVa team is calm, steady, and composed. And those final seconds showed it. Just because the opposing team makes plenty of mistakes doesn't mean you cannot praise the team that didn't make said mistakes.

I agree that this UVa team is composed over all....but I cannot agree that UVa did not make mistakes....I think the point some are making here, and one I would agree with, is that UVa made two mistakes....they both just happened to help them. It happens sometimes in sports...the worst being illegal procedure that wipes out an interception or sack....U Va had a lane violation, and threw up a terrible shot.....but the gods were smiling on them and made both help the Hoos....

[CDu]

Can I ask what excellent composure would like in those last ~20 seconds of play from UVa? I get - and agree - that the 'Ville lacked complete composure. But UVa had a lot of it. I'm sadly convinced that Duke would not have been able to pull that off (or any other team!). I think we would have fouled with 0.9 left. I think we may not have gotten a prayer up with a player in good position.

I mean, what exactly do you think they did that was uber-composed? They attempted a 3. It didn't go in. Not their fault, but it wasn't any great composure to get fouled. They made two free throws and committed a lane violation on the third, which should have cost them the game. Nothing of noteworthy composure there - in fact, a slight lack of composure was exhibited. They applied some pressure on the inbounds, but nothing special. The Louisville player simply made a dumb play. And then they got a lucky bank on the last shot which was way off target. What about that is super-composed?

As for my answer to your question, there wasn't much ANY team can do down 4 with less than 5 seconds left but hope for the other team to screw up royally. There was literally no chance for UVa to win unless Louisville handed it to them. Seriously: if Louisville doesn't foul, the game ends with a Louisville win on Jerome's 3 (make or miss). If Louisville doesn't have an enormous brain fart on the inbounds, the game ends with a Louisville win. And so I don't think what UVa did was impressive at all. Any team could have done it, so long as they had the opposition keep screwing up for them like Louisville did.

The only composed thing they did was make two free throws. But again, any team could do that. Allen can make free throws. Trent can make free throws. We absolutely could have won that way if Louisville made the same mistakes against us.

And that's my point: aside from a good free throw shooter making two free throws, nothing UVa did in that sequence was noteworthy (and a good free throw shooter making two free throws isn't all that noteworthy either). It was all about Louisville choking.


To me, this UVa team is calm, steady, and composed. And those final seconds showed it. Just because the opposing team makes plenty of mistakes doesn't mean you cannot praise the team that didn't make said mistakes.

UVa is indeed a calm, steady, composed, and very good team. But the last seconds of that game weren't a display in how composed UVa was. It was a display of how uncomposed Louisville was in that sequence. Nothing about that sequence makes me any more or less concerned about playing them, nor does it illustrate to me any reason to be concerned about playing them. I would be concerned about playing them because they are simply a very good basketball team. No need to try to jam that odd sequence of events into any sort of narrative about how awesome UVa is.

[kmspeaks]

To me, this UVa team is calm, steady, and composed. And those final seconds showed it.

They had to miss a free throw while down 2 to try and get a rebound and shot off but they committed a lane violation and gave the ball back to Louisville. That doesn't scream composure to me. The fact that Louisville then gacked it up with one of the most boneheaded plays I've seen on the inbounds doesn't mean I'm going to call Virginia's performance composed when really it was just lucky. Was it uNC's composure that caused Chris Webber to call a timeout he didn't have? Virginia gave that game away with the lane violation but Adel said no thanks and handed it right back. Nobody was composed in that one.

[gotoguy]

March 1975, I was in a comparative anatomy lab class in the afternoon in the Bio Sci building when somebody listening on a transistor radio relayed the final minute of the game. Then and always 9F.

From the WRAL website...


"The scoreboard game

Seventh seed Wake Forest met two seed North Carolina in the first shootout at high noon. The Deacons led by eight with 50 seconds to play. Dean Smith, of course, still had a pocket full of timeouts (you got five in those days). Two Tar Heel baskets and two UNC timeouts cut the lead in half and gave Carolina a chance to set up a full court press.

Deacons coach Carl Tacy decided to go for the home run. Jerry Schellenberg threw a high-arching 86-foot baseball pass that Skip Brown caught cleanly and laid in. That likely would have ended Carolina’s comeback, except referee Fred Hikel ruled that the pass hit the scoreboard. The ball did travel very close to the scoreboard. But did it make even the slightest contact with it? I can’t say with certainty one way or the other. But I can confirm this: The flight of the ball did not change. Skip Brown caught the pass over his shoulder without breaking stride.

So instead of being down six and getting the ball under the Wake Forest basket, Carolina is still down just four and now gets the ball under its own basket. The Tar Heels quickly cut the lead to two, fouled a Deacon who missed the front end of a one-and-one and got the rebound for a chance at a tying shot.

Brad Hoffman curled in a jumper from the corner, capping the eight-point, 50-second comeback with about one second to spare. Carolina won in OT 101-100.

Wake’s Tacy has not mellowed any regarding the outcome of the scoreboard ruling. He told me last year: “It was a HORRIBLE call.”

[HereBeforeCoachK]

M

Brad Hoffman curled in a jumper from the corner, capping the eight-point, 50-second comeback with about one second to spare. Carolina won in OT 101-100.

Wake’s Tacy has not mellowed any regarding the outcome of the scoreboard ruling. He told me last year: “It was a HORRIBLE call.”

So Tacy still steamed 43 years later? Can't say as I blame him. I remember it, and hated it at the time too. (BTW thanks for posting this)

[devildeac]

March 1975, I was in a comparative anatomy lab class in the afternoon in the Bio Sci building when somebody listening on a transistor radio relayed the final minute of the game. Then and always 9F.

From the WRAL website...


"The scoreboard game

Seventh seed Wake Forest met two seed North Carolina in the first shootout at high noon. The Deacons led by eight with 50 seconds to play. Dean Smith, of course, still had a pocket full of timeouts (you got five in those days). Two Tar Heel baskets and two UNC timeouts cut the lead in half and gave Carolina a chance to set up a full court press.

Deacons coach Carl Tacy decided to go for the home run. Jerry Schellenberg threw a high-arching 86-foot baseball pass that Skip Brown caught cleanly and laid in. That likely would have ended Carolina’s comeback, except referee Fred Hikel ruled that the pass hit the scoreboard. The ball did travel very close to the scoreboard. But did it make even the slightest contact with it? I can’t say with certainty one way or the other. But I can confirm this: The flight of the ball did not change. Skip Brown caught the pass over his shoulder without breaking stride.

So instead of being down six and getting the ball under the Wake Forest basket, Carolina is still down just four and now gets the ball under its own basket. The Tar Heels quickly cut the lead to two, fouled a Deacon who missed the front end of a one-and-one and got the rebound for a chance at a tying shot.

Brad Hoffman curled in a jumper from the corner, capping the eight-point, 50-second comeback with about one second to spare. Carolina won in OT 101-100.

Wake’s Tacy has not mellowed any regarding the outcome of the scoreboard ruling. He told me last year: “It was a HORRIBLE call.”

My memory is not as bad as I thought:o. I couldn't have named all the players or all the details but I did remember most of the sordid generalities and chicanery. Thanks for researching. Grrrr.

[PackMan97]

Finally, NC State lays a turd at the wrong time. Didn't see the game so I can't comment on why the loss happen but I suspect it has something to do with UNC-Alum, John Swofford, fixing the game ensuring Carolina gets a double bye or something like that. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it!

[jv001]

Finally, NC State lays a turd at the wrong time. Didn't see the game so I can't comment on why the loss happen but I suspect it has something to do with UNC-Alum, John Swofford, fixing the game ensuring Carolina gets a double bye or something like that. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it!

I Gotcha-back. The cheats had something to do with it. GoDuke!

[UrinalCake]

Didn't see the game so I can't comment on why the loss happen but I suspect it has something to do with UNC-Alum, John Swofford, fixing the game ensuring Carolina gets a double bye or something like that.

I only half-watched the last couple minutes. Seemed like a close game that either team could have won. State didn't run very good offense down the stretch. I have to confess that I was rooting for GT, only because I wanted Duke to secure the double-bye. Otherwise I've been cheering for State all season long (except when you played us, a game that I was sure we would lose).

State has far exceeded my expectations this season, as well as those of the many State fans that I know. So I wouldn't get too down about this one loss.

[JasonEvans]

BC leads FSU by 5 with 11 minutes left in Tallahassee as the Noles are furiously trying to play their way back down onto the bubble. FSU is safe at the moment, despite losing 2 straight, but lose this game and then get upset in the ACC tourney and FSU would be NIT bound, I think.

[duke4ever19]

Kyle Guy went down and immediately grabbed at his knee. Had to leave the court with help.

Potentially a big development.

[CDu]

Kyle Guy went down and immediately grabbed at his knee. Had to leave the court with help.

Potentially a big development.

Awful news if he's out for any length of time. Would hate that. Hopefully just a minor thing.

[duke4ever19]

Awful news if he's out for any length of time. Would hate that. Hopefully just a minor thing.

He just returned to the bench. We'll see if Bennett puts him back in or is cautious.

[CDu]

He just returned to the bench. We'll see if Bennett puts him back in or is cautious.

That is good. If it was a structural issue, he'd not be back on the bench.

[JasonEvans]

I would like to put money right now on Notre Dame to win the NIT.

[ncexnyc]

Like the funny joke that wear's out its welcome after you hear people tell it over and over again. I'm really getting sick and tired of hearing the announcers say, " Well what happened after Thursday night", near the conclusion of every close game today.

[JasonEvans]

I would like to put money right now on Notre Dame to win the NIT.

Does anyone think a really close loss at Virginia helps Notre Dame's case for a bid? I mean, with Bonzi, they are almost certainly one of the top 30 teams in the country, right?

[duke2x]

I think ND must beat Pitt and VT to get a bid. I don't think they have to beat Duke, a tall order when Duke has 2 days of rest and 1.5 fewer games to play.

[Bluedog]

Does anyone think a really close loss at Virginia helps Notre Dame's case for a bid? I mean, with Bonzi, they are almost certainly one of the top 30 teams in the country, right?

In the past, the committee has taken injuries into account for SEEDING purposes but less so for "in or out" decisions. I guess we'll see how they play in the ACC tournament considering we could get them in our first game (if they win two of course). I agree they are probably a top 30 team with Bonzie but their best win by far this year is Wichita State. It's really hard to evaluate. Bonzie just missed too much time.

[devildeac]

Does anyone think a really close loss at Virginia helps Notre Dame's case for a bid? I mean, with Bonzi, they are almost certainly one of the top 30 teams in the country, right?

Amazed you can think of that when I'd have gambled a large sum of fake money you'd have this on your mind:

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