MBB: Duke 82, Louisville 56 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[robed deity]

Love that score.

[CDu]

Dare I say it, we really stripped Louisville of their dignity tonight.

[JD for Three!]

Great game tonight! Grayson was awesome!

If I had a hat on,I would tip it to Coach Padgett for taking the thuggery out of Louisville’s play.

PS: Was pulling hard for ‘Cuse. They came close

[DavidBenAkiva]

Dare I say it, we really stripped Louisville of their dignity tonight.

Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy this guy has jokes!

That was fun. More of that type of game, please.

[tfk53]

Very impressed with the defense tonight. Zone very active. Lots of hustle. They are learning quickly these past 4 games. Grayson and Carter both stellar. Continuing to move to a peak - which hopefully will be reached the first of April.

[robed deity]

Love that score.

Silly me, I misread and saw 82-50. One too many beers. Anyway, still really good.

[juise]

Love that score.

Great score. Not nearly as great as 82-50.:p

Edit: beat me to it.

[Selover]

Random thoughts.. Bolden and Carter looked fantastic. Carter isn't small by any means but Bolden just seems enormous. Once Wendell decides he's going to dunk something there isn't much that is going stop him. Great game by Grayson. The corner three where he was shooting as he caught it was beautiful! Great game from everyone!

[ipatent]

Grayson with another strong game, but a lot of credit goes to the inside players (all of them) for controlling the boards and protecting the rim. Best interior defense performance of the season thus far.

[godins]

So many stat lines to love from this game. Duval's 5 steals, WCJr's 6 assists, GA's 6 three-pointers, 14000 dunks, and the best of them all, extended minutes for Jack White. We're looking better and better with each game. Go Duke!

[MartyClark]

Great game by Grayson. Fun to see him return to prominence. Let's hope that he figures out a way to have a big scoring role when Bags returns.

[TheOldBattleship]

Just about everything went right today, but just a quick list of good things:

- Help and recovery in the zone from the wings and guards
- Carter's distribution from the elbow/elbow extended in our Horns sets (especially his DHOs with Grayson. Deadly.)
- Weakside rebounding from the wings in the zone. DeLaurier did well, here, but special props to Trent, White, and, especially, Duval dropping down from the top
- Carter and Bolden's decision-making in the center of the zone against overloads where Louisville would dump the ball to the middle of the zone and force choices from our bigs as to whether to attack the guy with the ball or watch the pass
- Carter taking Anas Mahmoud completely out of the game with fouls and just being too physical for Mahmoud to handle
- Grayson stepping the heck up and knocking in shots at really opportune moments. When he just took over the game for a few minutes to start the second half when it looked like Louisville was going to make a run? Breathtaking.
- Bolden is looking FRISKY. If he has bounce and any degree of lateral quickness, that changes the equation for him just massively. Carter's brilliance limits his minutes, but he's as good a backup center as there is in college basketball right now. Just stay healthy, Ques.
- One more shout to Trent/White/DeLaurier roaming the wings of the backline in the zone. They all did a really good job of being able to move all over the place without losing the thread of the zone. That's the big difference between now and the zone we were running at the beginning of the year: guys, particularly these three on the wing, have the confidence to just adapt to the circumstance with the full confidence that any holes will be covered by the other 4 guys on the floor. It makes the zone WAY harder to scheme against, as it's much less rigid. Excited to see where this takes us!

Just an awesome game all round. Best of luck to this Louisville team after a rough few days for the program. @VaTech, home against UVA, and @NCState to finish is absolutely brutal for them. They almost have to steal one of those three to make the NCAA tourney. A tall task, given how they looked tonight.

[simplyluvin]

Most satisfying win since Miami and MSU before that. Dominated end to end on both sides. Grayson is finally the POY candidate we expected to see and Wendell is becoming a monster inside. The defense is really coming around. Our athleticism shows in the 3-2. Love where this is going.

[CoachJ10]

Just about everything went right today, but just a quick list of good things:

- Help and recovery in the zone from the wings and guards
- Carter's distribution from the elbow/elbow extended in our Horns sets (especially his DHOs with Grayson. Deadly.)
- Weakside rebounding from the wings in the zone. DeLaurier did well, here, but special props to Trent, White, and, especially, Duval dropping down from the top
- Carter and Bolden's decision-making in the center of the zone against overloads where Louisville would dump the ball to the middle of the zone and force choices from our bigs as to whether to attack the guy with the ball or watch the pass
- Carter taking Anas Mahmoud completely out of the game with fouls and just being too physical for Mahmoud to handle
- Grayson stepping the heck up and knocking in shots at really opportune moments. When he just took over the game for a few minutes to start the second half when it looked like Louisville was going to make a run? Breathtaking.
- Bolden is looking FRISKY. If he has bounce and any degree of lateral quickness, that changes the equation for him just massively. Carter's brilliance limits his minutes, but he's as good a backup center as there is in college basketball right now. Just stay healthy, Ques.
- One more shout to Trent/White/DeLaurier roaming the wings of the backline in the zone. They all did a really good job of being able to move all over the place without losing the thread of the zone. That's the big difference between now and the zone we were running at the beginning of the year: guys, particularly these three on the wing, have the confidence to just adapt to the circumstance with the full confidence that any holes will be covered by the other 4 guys on the floor. It makes the zone WAY harder to scheme against, as it's much less rigid. Excited to see where this takes us!

Just an awesome game all round. Best of luck to this Louisville team after a rough few days for the program. @VaTech, home against UVA, and @NCState to finish is absolutely brutal for them. They almost have to steal one of those three to make the NCAA tourney. A tall task, given how they looked tonight.

The focus of our guards to crash the defensive boards has been the single biggest adjustment over the past few games. Great to see Tre, GT and GA all embracing this.

[Bluegrassdevil1]

That game was over faster than Rick Pitino in a restaurant booth...

preparing for another press conference.

[dukelifer]

Defensive rebounding is MUCH improved and the zone with some pressure appears to be working. The O flows better when Allen is handling. Keep it up.

[DukeWarhead]

Bravo, bravo. But enough of this resting MBIII. We only have a few more chances to see him in a Duke Uniform. He came to Duke to play.

[jv001]

Duke with 16 assists on 29 made FGs, out rebounded Louisville 44-30 with 12 offensive boards, 15-16 FTs, 5 blocks(Carter 3), 10 steals(Trevon 5-Grayson 2) Only negative was 15 turnovers.
The zone is looking better each game and Grayson is playing like he did against Michigan State. Keep it up guys. GoDuke!

[godins]

Our defense is up to #27 on KenPom -- huge shift from just a few weeks ago. The switch to zone has been something to behold.

[proelitedota]

Duke's defense passed Nova's to be 27th in the nation. Only stat that I cared about after the game. :cool:

[dukelifer]

Bravo, bravo. But enough of this resting MBIII. We only have a few more chances to see him in a Duke Uniform. He came to Duke to play.

Bags is injured- this is not about rest. It may not look serious but knees are tricky.

[MrPoon]

Really impressive win. Zone worked so well.
I voted GA for player of the game because he was nuts. Every shot looked good.

However, how special of a player is Carter? What can’t the kid do?! Is there time for him to get into the POY debate (joking...kind of)? When he hit the mid range jumper around the 8 min second half mark, things became unfair.

Obviously Duke needs to stay sharp when BagIII comes back. With the larger roll of Grayson the last four games, I hope we can keep finding spots for Duval in the offense. He has so much to give. But a super minor quibble. Super minor. Clearly getting the ball in GA’s hands has been a huge plus. GA scoring has clearly been special but there is a fluidity and clearity of rolls in the offense that we didn’t see even when Duke was scoring more.

Lastly, ACC is looking at having a small NCAA contingent. LU’s schedule is brutal. SY doesn’t look like they are in.

[Furniture]

Bags is injured- this is not about rest. It may not look serious but knees are tricky.

Me thinks that was someone being a little facetious. That’s all. Relax...

[dukelion]

Duke's defense passed Nova's to be 27th in the nation. Only stat that I cared about after the game. :cool:

Crazy

Weren't we at around 100 a few weeks back?

I haven't liked a zone this much since Tark's amoeba defense.

[elvis14]

Well that was fun.

Will the real Grayson Allen Please Stand Up?
Please stand up.
Please stand up.


So that's what a game looks like when the defense actually works. Interesting!

[Troublemaker]

In ACC games only, Duke is now the second-best defense in the conference behind UVA. And the second-best offense behind UNC (although it's a virtual tie, 116.6 to 116.4 offensive efficiency).

[Furniture]

https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/966531073713811456/video/1

It doesn’t matter what people say about Trevon his teammates and his coaches obviously love the kid.
That means a lot to me.....

[Kedsy]

Our defense is up to #27 on KenPom -- huge shift from just a few weeks ago.


Weren't we at around 100 a few weeks back?

On January 8, we were at #108. Thirteen games later, we're at #27, and that's even including the defensive clunkers against St. John's and UNC (4 games ago, after which we were #79). We've moved up 52 spots in four games.

[UrinalCake]

Grayson has such a quick release on the catch and shoot. It's like he receives the ball and puts it up all in one motion. Such a weapon that he can get off whenever he wants, and he hits a high percentages of them. I feel like he wasn't pulling the trigger like that when he was in the midst of his shooting slump. So happy to see him get out that slump while still doing all of the other things that he's been doing all along - leading the team, calling out plays, hustling on defense.

Just about everybody played great. Javin and White attacked the offensive boards relentlessly, they know that their defenders are helping off them and they cash in. Wendell looked Shelden-esque on the inside, he just controlled the paint. Gary was a little quiet and Duval made some playground-play type of mistakes, but as a whole the team performance was awesome.

[uh_no]

https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/966531073713811456/video/1

It doesn’t matter what people say about Trevon his teammates and his coaches obviously love the kid.
That means a lot to me....

kid's been fantastic since the limited minutes vs UNC and subsequent benching. the effort on defense is just completely different from what he showed before, and his discipline on offense is much improved....and 6 boards to boot? In the past 4 games, including his coming off the bench vs GT, he has as many boards as the prior 10 games and as many steals as the prior 11 games. Some of it is bagley being out, no doubt....but the eye test shows me something has clicked.

Aside with the much improved defense, his foul rate is down significantly... with 2 in the past 3 games. His best 3 game stretch before that was 5, and that was with fewer minutes.

[LasVegas]

On January 8, we were at #108. Thirteen games later, we're at #27, and that's even including the defensive clunkers against St. John's and UNC (4 games ago, after which we were #79). We've moved up 52 spots in four games.

This is hard to even believe. Does Kenpom have some sort of recency bias? Surely 4 games can’t move the needle THAT much. Maybe I just don’t understand.......which my wife would be the first to say.

The D is getting a lot of attention but I think the slower tempo is also a big reason for the overall improvement. Whatever it is, I like it.

[Kedsy]

This is hard to even believe. Does Kenpom have some sort of recency bias? Surely 4 games can’t move the needle THAT much. Maybe I just don’t understand...which my wife would be the first to say.

In 2015, we went from #57 to #12 in six games (fortunately coinciding with the NCAA tournament). I assume he does have a recency bias, but either way it's safe to say if you play well you can move very quickly up (or presumably down) his rankings.

[uh_no]

This is hard to even believe. Does Kenpom have some sort of recency bias? Surely 4 games can’t move the needle THAT much. Maybe I just don’t understand....which my wife would be the first to say.

The D is getting a lot of attention but I think the slower tempo is also a big reason for the overall improvement. Whatever it is, I like it.

there is a recency bias. but it's fantastic defense in 11 of the last 13 games. Even if there were no recency bias, duke's defense would still be pretty good overall at this point. 17 games at <1ppp is a really good number.

[Snork]

First post in quite a while. When did DBR get rid of the parquet floor background? :)

I'm bald and fat enough to know I should temper my emotions, but what a fun game that was to watch! I'm so impressed with how much the team has grown in just a couple weeks. For over a month I've thought Carter has been our best player, and tonight continued his great run. He just continues to learn and improve, both offensively and defensively. He's scoring inside and out, his passing (both interior and kick-out) is spot on, and he's reigned in his fouls and increased his block %. Allen's swagger is back, Duval is a ball hawk in the zone, DeLaurier/Bolden/White are a three-headed monster all over the floor, and there's no one in the ACC I'm more confident will make a 3 than Trent. The sky's the limit when Bagley comes back.

Finally, thanks to DBR and all the thoughtful posters here. I used to post daily (last century and early this century), and though I stopped posting regularly I never left. This is the most insightful, thorough, and civil fan site around. And the ONLY fan site with a top-notch podcast to accompany it, so thank you Jason, Sam, and Donald! Go Duke!

[ElSid]

3/4 court 1-3-1 press and active zone has been deadly. Teams starting half court offense often with only 20 seconds and it's taking them a while to find a crease in the zone. Bad shot or turnovers follow. Louisville only scored on 34% of their possessions tonight. That's not very good.

Duval is elite, no question. Great anticipation and athleticism on defense. Getting people into right roles makes them thrive, makes them happy. Fun to see that clip of him and Grayson having a moment.

[Troublemaker]

Getting people into right roles makes them thrive, makes them happy. Fun to see that clip of him and Grayson having a moment.

The one where Grayson hugs Trevon like Quinn might've hugged Tyus, right?

Funny how a switch to a defensive scheme the players can execute, and all of a sudden Grayson's a great leader, and the players care; they play for 40 minutes; they play for each other and for Duke and not for their draft stock.

It's almost as if those intangible concerns weren't the problem all along.

[Skydog]

What a game by Grayson. Love this version of GA. Looking for his shot, scoring his shot, talking, leading, being a great Captain.

And what a fantastic game by Carter. He did it all - scoring, rebounding, assisting, the whole shebang.

Love the fact that Trevon is playing to his strengths, working for the team, showing more discipline, rebounding and really getting after it defensively.

And props to the great effort from the entire team. 15 of 16 from the free throw line. Bolden 4 of 5 from the field and 5 rebounds in only 16 minutes. Javin with 8 rebounds in only 19 mins. White with 5 boards in 15 minutes.

And tonight was the first time I thought our defense was great. I know that statistically speaking we've been good on D for the last few game but to my eye there were still too much free space, too many open shots that our opponents just missed. But much, much tighter tonight. And not only did we tighten up our coverage - we also pressured the ball better than I've seen us do all season, finally forcing our opponent into turnovers. Reminded me a bit of our great mtm days when we just didn't allow the other team to run their offense. Same tonight, but - of all things I never expected - with a great Duke zone.

Best all-around game of the season. :)

[Oriole Way]

kid's been fantastic since the limited minutes vs UNC and subsequent benching. the effort on defense is just completely different from what he showed before, and his discipline on offense is much improved...and 6 boards to boot? In the past 4 games, including his coming off the bench vs GT, he has as many boards as the prior 10 games and as many steals as the prior 11 games. Some of it is bagley being out, no doubt...but the eye test shows me something has clicked.

Aside with the much improved defense, his foul rate is down significantly... with 2 in the past 3 games. His best 3 game stretch before that was 5, and that was with fewer minutes.

It seems to me that the whole team's foul rate is significantly down during the current win streak. It seems that we have less guys in regular foul trouble compared to earlier in the season. That might be partly because the team is blowing teams out more recently, but I also think it's a function of the zone defense itself. Duke's players are getting beat off the dribble less often.

Would like to see the foul rate stats during the past 4 games compared to the rest of the season.

[YmoBeThere]

MBold finally looks like he might be enjoying the game during his time here at Duke...

[Saratoga2]

Not a lot to add, but we were able to get a lot of players into the game and they all seemed to hold their own or better. Great to be able to have the bench involved to the degree that it was, and good for team spirit. It seemed so easy out there last night that perhaps the starters got bored and a little complacent at times, which might account for the TO's. The Spaulding kid from Louisville is a great young player but didn't have a lot of support from the rest. We just completely out physicaled them inside.

Against Syracuse, we will have to be even better, with less TO's, as they will give us a real battle.

[vick]

In 2015, we went from #57 to #12 in six games (fortunately coinciding with the NCAA tournament). I assume he does have a recency bias, but either way it's safe to say if you play well you can move very quickly up (or presumably down) his rankings.

There’s also the fact that the distribution of ratings isn’t uniform, i.e., the difference between 1 and 10 is always much more than between 151 and 160. So even a straight average of what is the #108 team (Oklahoma, at 102.8) and the #3 team (Texas Tech, at 90.0) would put you at 96.4, which would rank #20.

Bottom line, if you start from a mediocre place and start playing defense at a top-10 level, you’re going to shoot up the rankings regardless of any recency effect.

[WVDUKEFAN]

I don't know where to start. I saw so many positive things last night -Grayson, Marques, Trevon, Jav - they all played really well. If I had to pick one thing I most enjoyed it was the defense. I really thought we hustled and got after it last night.

Congratulations to the team and Coach K on a solid win.

[Dukebasketball2020]

Great game last night probally the 2nd or 3rd best game we have played all year there is still room for improvement this game could have been even worse if we cleaned up the sloppy plays in the first half. There was a stretch of 5 minutes in the first half where we took some bad shots and mad some stupid turnovers. Duval needs to not shoot from the outside it's like giving them other team a freebie every time he shoots what he needs to continue to do is drive and dish or drive and go to the rim hard and get fouls. I like the direction of where this team is going to be honest I feel better about the team we have now without bagley then when we did have him.

[Ballboy1998]

Oddly enough, Duke has found a way to adapt the 2-3 zone they are playing to really embody Coach K’s defensive principles that we all almost universally identify with man-to-man: (1) deny perimeter passing lanes, (2) deny 3s and layups and force the opponent to settle for long/midrange 2s.

The guards at the top of the 2-3 are stretching up enough to really deny perimeter passing lanes and force turnovers; the wings on the back line are swinging up and outside the 3pt line to deny the 3pt shot so aggressively it often looks more like a 3-2 zone; the interior players are denying at the rim and are much more willing to concede the midrange jumper.

Where in recent years the man-to-man’s emphasis on denying passing lanes and 3s has led to easy layups on pick-n-rolls, backdoor cuts, and failed rotations, leaving the bigs planted in the middle allows more open midrange but limits easy layups. Really enjoying watching the team continue to develop on both ends of the floor!

[CDu]

There’s also the fact that the distribution of ratings isn’t uniform, i.e., the difference between 1 and 10 is always much more than between 151 and 160. So even a straight average of what is the #108 team (Oklahoma, at 102.8) and the #3 team (Texas Tech, at 90.0) would put you at 96.4, which would rank #20.

Bottom line, if you start from a mediocre place and start playing defense at a top-10 level, you’re going to shoot up the rankings regardless of any recency effect.

Yep, and to illustrate your point further, we are currently 27th with an AdjD of 97.4. The #41 team is at 98.0. So there are 14 other teams within 0.6 points of Duke’s rating. But there are just 2 teams that Duke is within 0.6 points of catching.

The rankings are deceiving. Despite being #27, we are closer to being the #84 defense than we are to being the #8 defense.

[stedge]

best part about the game last eve was that the kids looked like they were having fun playing a game.

[flyingdutchdevil]

best part about the game last eve was that the kids looked like they were having fun playing a game.

Especially Grayson. He was all smiles.

[ChillinDuke]

And Coach K finally started to play lineup combinations with some rhyme and reason. I now have a much better sense for what each player can bring to the table, something I didn't have a very short time ago (probably less than 10 games). Justin Robinson was never the answer - as much as I like and root for the kid. I'm sure there was some underlying motivational tactic involved there. But the concept of him being the first guy off the bench for a couple game stretch looks almost indefensible in hindsight.

- Chillin

[budwom]

very enjoyable game and enjoyable trends. One that I've wondered about though is that while White and Bolden (and of course DeLaurier) are seeing more time, O'Connell is
seeing less. I thought a zone defense might be up his alley....with Allen shooting as well as he has, perhaps K doesn't see the need...whatever K is doing, it's working.
Battle of the Zones on Saturday!

[jv001]

https://mobile.twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/966531073713811456/video/1

It doesn’t matter what people say about Trevon his teammates and his coaches obviously love the kid.
That means a lot to me....

Call me a softy or whatever, I love to see Duke players that love each other. And you can tell it by how they react after something good happens. I especially like it when Grayson is making a clear attempt to pick Trevon up or congratulate him after a good play. Yes, I agree Trevon's teammates and coaches obviously love the kid. :cool: GoDuke!

[SkyBrickey]

Agree with all the great things about the win last night.

I've been a basketball junkie for a long time but I can't fully get my head wrapped around this zone defense. It looks like a 3-2 a lot of the time but seems to morph into a 4-1 or 3-1-1 based on match-ups to keep Carter under the basket. Maybe it is the Tark amoeba zone?

The two soft spots seem to be the high post and the corner 3 as the ball rotates back around, but none of the past 4 opponents have been able to make us pay with those shots. Will be interesting if other coaches are able to better scheme against it but right now it is working phenomenally.

Edit: Just read the post above describing how it's a 2-3 with the offside bottom defender extending up to make it look like a 3-2 - makes sense. That puts a lot of pressure on Carter (Bolden) to deny the post, account for the high post entry, and guard against a backside lob of some kind. Carter's great length and mobility in the middle is really the key to allowing everyone to pressure up and out against the perimeter guys.

[NYBri]

Oddly enough, Duke has found a way to adapt the 2-3 zone they are playing to really embody Coach K’s defensive principles that we all almost universally identify with man-to-man: (1) deny perimeter passing lanes, (2) deny 3s and layups and force the opponent to settle for long/midrange 2s.

The guards at the top of the 2-3 are stretching up enough to really deny perimeter passing lanes and force turnovers; the wings on the back line are swinging up and outside the 3pt line to deny the 3pt shot so aggressively it often looks more like a 3-2 zone; the interior players are denying at the rim and are much more willing to concede the midrange jumper.

Where in recent years the man-to-man’s emphasis on denying passing lanes and 3s has led to easy layups on pick-n-rolls, backdoor cuts, and failed rotations, leaving the bigs planted in the middle allows more open midrange but limits easy layups. Really enjoying watching the team continue to develop on both ends of the floor!

^^^ This.

Took a while for K to learn how to use these great parts. Seems he has figured something out.

Grayson’s game has improved. One factor, I believe, is that his path to the rim isn’t so clogged because teams aren’t sagging on Bags and Carter. Since Bags has been out, not as much congestion.

Saturday’s zone-a-thon should be interesting.

Last night brought back some fun in watching a Duke TEAM. :cool:

[Troublemaker]

very enjoyable game and enjoyable trends. One that I've wondered about though is that while White and Bolden (and of course DeLaurier) are seeing more time, O'Connell is
seeing less. I thought a zone defense might be up his alley...with Allen shooting as well as he has, perhaps K doesn't see the need...whatever K is doing, it's working.
Battle of the Zones on Saturday!

Allen, Duval, and Trent can cover the 80 minutes at guard on top of the zone.

Carter, DeLaurier, Trent, Bolden, and White (and Bagley when he's back) can cover the 120 minutes along the backline of the zone. And indeed, O'Connell is too thin to play along the backline, anyway.

And, in general, zone coaches don't play a large rotation. Their starters can rest in the zone and avoid foul trouble in the zone. One of the few coaches who's had a shorter rotation than Coach K over the years has been Boeheim.

Coach K + zone is very dangerous for bench minutes. I honestly could see him playing a 40 x 5 game (zero bench minutes) in a Final Four game down the line. A 35 x 5 game is almost a given at some point.

[Tripping William]

Against Syracuse, we will have to be even better, with less TO's, as they will give us a real battle.

I see what you did there . . . . . ;)

[jv001]

very enjoyable game and enjoyable trends. One that I've wondered about though is that while White and Bolden (and of course DeLaurier) are seeing more time, O'Connell is
seeing less. I thought a zone defense might be up his alley...with Allen shooting as well as he has, perhaps K doesn't see the need...whatever K is doing, it's working.
Battle of the Zones on Saturday!

Last night I watched Jack White closely and was surprised at how quick he is for his size. He also seems to be real quick off his feet. This is why he's such a good rebounder and is effective in the zone defense. I can see why he's getting minutes off the bench. Good move Coach K. GoDuke!

[MChambers]

Grayson’s game has improved. One factor, I believe, is that his path to the rim isn’t so clogged because teams aren’t sagging on Bags and Carter. Since Bags has been out, not as much congestion.

Except that Bagley has been replaced mostly by Bolden and Delaurier, neither of whom spread the floor.

[uh_no]

Justin Robinson was never the answer - as much as I like and root for the kid. I'm sure there was some underlying motivational tactic involved there. But the concept of him being the first guy off the bench for a couple game stretch looks almost indefensible in hindsight.


with bolden and delaurier hurt, what else were we going to do? I'm not sure there were any good options. As much as I love jack, I'm not sure him playing significant minutes at the 4 in those situations would have been any more or less effective.

During that stretch, the only other lineup which really gave us quality was the o'connell lineup minus duval.

[weezie]

Passing looked a whole lot better last night, too. Maybe K will "encourage" Trevon to try and pass to the bigs above their feet going forward. Carter's ankle looks stiff when he cools down and Bolden still favoring the knee on lateral movement when he goes that way at all. He's landing on one leg most of the time. Still was nice to see him happy.
As to Grayson, I'm getting emotional about saying goodbye. What a true gamer.

[elvis14]

Last night I watched Jack White closely and was surprised at how quick he is for his size. He also seems to be real quick off his feet. This is why he's such a good rebounder and is effective in the zone defense. I can see why he's getting minutes off the bench. Good move Coach K. GoDuke!

After Jack that that first great game, I was thinking he should get more minutes but was afraid I was being infatuated with that one game. So I started watching him instead of the ball and I have really liked what I've seen. He plays hard. Because he only plays a few minutes, he can go hard the whole time he's in the game. He's quick and takes defense seriously. He is strong and a quick jumper which helps make him good rebounder. Of course it would be great to get more from him on offense but he does seem to take the shots he should take. He lets the game come to him on that end of the floor which is fine because we have so much scoring we don't need much from Jack (or Javin).

So many kids on this team that I really like, BTW. Wish we could keep a few of them around longer.

[flyingdutchdevil]

After Jack that that first great game, I was thinking he should get more minutes but was afraid I was being infatuated with that one game. So I started watching him instead of the ball and I have really liked what I've seen. He plays hard. Because he only plays a few minutes, he can go hard the whole time he's in the game. He's quick and takes defense seriously. He is strong and a quick jumper which helps make him good rebounder. Of course it would be great to get more from him on offense but he does seem to take the shots he should take. He lets the game come to him on that end of the floor which is fine because we have so much scoring we don't need much from Jack (or Javin).

So many kids on this team that I really like, BTW. Wish we could keep a few of them around longer.

This. I love this about White. He's not the most athletic dude on the floor, but he tries really, really hard. There was a play yesterday where Jack tried to save the ball but it fell into the hands of a Louisville player. The ball was nearly over the line when Jack recovered. He sprinted down the court as fast as humanly possible. And it worked; the offense didn't do anything by the time Jack came back.

That hustle was a beautiful thing to see. Grayson, Javin, Bolden, and Jack have really led the way in "hustling". To me, this is something that is so important moving from a leadership point of view.

[jv001]

This. I love this about White. He's not the most athletic dude on the floor, but he tries really, really hard. There was a play yesterday where Jack tried to save the ball but it fell into the hands of a Louisville player. The ball was nearly over the line when Jack recovered. He sprinted down the court as fast as humanly possible. And it worked; the offense didn't do anything by the time Jack came back.

That hustle was a beautiful thing to see. Grayson, Javin, Bolden, and Jack have really led the way in "hustling". To me, this is something that is so important moving from a leadership point of view.

I agree 100% and I would add Trevon to that list now. I know he's not a great shooter but he's improved on defense and I'm sure playing zone has helped him. Back to hustling, I hope when/if Marvin returns, he buys into giving his best effort. Not just on offense, but on defense most of all. If he does, we can be the favorite to win the NCAAT. GoDuke!

[Ballboy1998]

This. I love this about White. He's not the most athletic dude on the floor, but he tries really, really hard. There was a play yesterday where Jack tried to save the ball but it fell into the hands of a Louisville player. The ball was nearly over the line when Jack recovered. He sprinted down the court as fast as humanly possible. And it worked; the offense didn't do anything by the time Jack came back.

That hustle was a beautiful thing to see. Grayson, Javin, Bolden, and Jack have really led the way in "hustling". To me, this is something that is so important moving from a leadership point of view.

Also, while it is cliche to talk about the international player being better at zone D than man-to-man, I think it is very clear that White has some of the best zone D instincts on the team. It is no coincidence that his increased minutes have coincided with the team’s increasing reliance on zone, though Bagley’s absence is likely the number one factor. White looked lost at times in man-to-man where his relative lack of quickness hurt him, but he moves great in the zone and is also a great rebounder.

I do find the sudden drop in O’Connell’s minutes after his first start to be odd. Perhaps he has a bit of the inverse issue and is still struggling with the zone relative to his teammates, or maybe it is something else we don’t have visibility into.

[Rich]

Grayson’s game has improved. One factor, I believe, is that his path to the rim isn’t so clogged because teams aren’t sagging on Bags and Carter. Since Bags has been out, not as much congestion.


Except that Bagley has been replaced mostly by Bolden and Delaurier, neither of whom spread the floor.

But Bolden and Delaurier are not the focus of the offense and don't command the ball the way that Bagley does. So how does K re-integrate Bagley into this lineup? In my mind that's the #1 question right now. With Bagley in the game we have better players, but it seems we have been a better team the last few games while he's been injured. The chemistry really seems to be there. We can obviously be an even better team with Bagley integrated, but I'm not sure how we get there.

I don't think running the offense through him posting up like we did before his injury is the answer even though our offensive rating was through the roof. I think our offense is more potent now because we're less predictable and seem to be using more of our weapons on the inside and outside. But does he just take the place of Delaurier and Bolden and be a screen setter and rebounder? That doesn't sound like the solution either.

[stedge]

One of you said you like so many kids on this team.

I think that is just it. We are becoming a team. Maybe still some fragility, still, but I think Grayson is doing his best work in that regard. To me, that could be his greatest achievement.

I am going to miss him. Good kid.

[jv001]

[QUOTE=Rich;1043937]But Bolden and Delaurier are not the focus of the offense and don't command the ball the way that Bagley does. So how does K re-integrate Bagley into this lineup? In my mind that's the #1 question right now. With Bagley in the game we have better players, but it seems we have been a better team the last few games while he's been injured. The chemistry really seems to be there. We can obviously be an even better team with Bagley integrated, but I'm not sure how we get there.

This^, our opponents began playing Marvin to his left, played him physical and doubled down on him. Marvin tried to dribble out of the double teams and used up time on the shot clock. The often led to a wild shot as the clock expired. When/if Marvin comes back, I would like to see him pass out of the double teams and keep the offense moving.
I think a pick and roll offense with Grayson, Marvin and Wendell would be deadly if ran properly. GoDuke!

[uh_no]

Also, while it is cliche to talk about the international player being better at zone D than man-to-man, I think it is very clear that White has some of the best zone D instincts on the team. It is no coincidence that his increased minutes have coincided with the team’s increasing reliance on zone, though Bagley’s absence is likely the number one factor. White looked lost at times in man-to-man where his relative lack of quickness hurt him, but he moves great in the zone and is also a great rebounder.

I'm highly skeptical we are selecting our defensive scheme for the rest of the season based on the fact that a guy playing 12% of available minutes may have better "D instincts." We're playing more zone because K has determined the man is a lost cause. It has nothing to do with Jack and everything to do with this team as a whole being terrible at playing man D.




I do find the sudden drop in O’Connell’s minutes after his first start to be odd. Perhaps he has a bit of the inverse issue and is still struggling with the zone relative to his teammates, or maybe it is something else we don’t have visibility into.

O'connell's has been tied to Duval almost all year. Even early on, putting in o'connell early in games was the answer to Duval not coming out of the gate right. This is made abundantly clear with the UNC and GT games, where Duval was replaced by O'connell for large stretches of times, including when Duval was benched.

Duval starts playing better, O'connell sees his minutes go down. It's not a secret.....It's no slight of O'connell, but when Duval is out there busting his butt like he can and has the past 3 games, O'connell will see his minutes limited. I expect 5 minutes to be his ceiling to get duval and grayson each 2-3 minutes of break a game.

[thedukelamere]

One of you said you like so many kids on this team.

I think that is just it. We are becoming a team. Maybe still some fragility, still, but I think Grayson is doing his best work in that regard. To me, that could be his greatest achievement.

I am going to miss him. Good kid.

I personally think that the switch to zone has allowed Grayson's energy and leadership to be more organically contagious... We've seen him play his heart out all year, and previously the team would respond in spurts but sometimes just go through the motions of being "pumped up." Then again, itt's tough to keep that tenacity going when you are being routinely carved up in the PNR.
It seems that, coupled with the switch to zone, the team's energy has transformed from individual effort to the type of swarming attack we've been waiting to see. Color me cautiously optimistic.

[Ballboy1998]

I'm highly skeptical we are selecting our defensive scheme for the rest of the season based on the fact that a guy playing 12% of available minutes may have better "D instincts." We're playing more zone because K has determined the man is a lost cause. It has nothing to do with Jack and everything to do with this team as a whole being terrible at playing man D.


Apologies on being unclear - my point is that the team’s decision to play more zone has created more opportunities for White to play. He is playing more minutes thanks in part to us playing more zone. I am certainly not suggesting the team is playing more zone because it is the D White excels at.

[CDu]

But Bolden and Delaurier are not the focus of the offense and don't command the ball the way that Bagley does. So how does K re-integrate Bagley into this lineup? In my mind that's the #1 question right now. With Bagley in the game we have better players, but it seems we have been a better team the last few games while he's been injured. The chemistry really seems to be there. We can obviously be an even better team with Bagley integrated, but I'm not sure how we get there.

I don't think running the offense through him posting up like we did before his injury is the answer even though our offensive rating was through the roof. I think our offense is more potent now because we're less predictable and seem to be using more of our weapons on the inside and outside. But does he just take the place of Delaurier and Bolden and be a screen setter and rebounder? That doesn't sound like the solution either.

I've seen in a couple of places folks saying that the defense is better without Bagley. I don't buy it. One, because I don't think DeLaurier and White are better at the forward spots in the 2-3 zone than Bagley. Two, because Bagley is still the best rebounder on the team, and second-best defensive rebounder behind Carter. And he's much less foul-prone than Bolden and especially DeLaurier. Yes, he is occasionally out of position in the zone. But so are White and DeLaurier. And when Bolden is in, that pushes Carter to a forward spot, where he is far less effective.

I think the discrepancy we are seeing is that Bagley's absence coincides exactly with the point in the season that the team fully committed to zone. It's no secret that we seemed to be playing better in zone than man-to-man all season. And the defense had been playing better midseason with Bagley when we started playing more zone. Towards the end of the road, we had the last gasps of trying to be a man-to-man team, and the defense took steps backwards accordingly. Well, now we are playing exclusively zone.

I think the bigger reason that our defense has been better is that we are playing zone, which eliminates what we do worst: handle the high ball screens. The 2-3 zone largely eliminates that, and dribble penetration and handling of ball screens is what we struggled with.

So I think that when Bagley returns, we'll continue to be a very good defense. It remains to be seen, but I think that reducing the amount of time that Carter has to play forward and allow DeLaurier to play aggressively. And we get back an impact player like Bagley to the mix, which reduces our depth risk.

[Saratoga2]

I'm highly skeptical we are selecting our defensive scheme for the rest of the season based on the fact that a guy playing 12% of available minutes may have better "D instincts." We're playing more zone because K has determined the man is a lost cause. It has nothing to do with Jack and everything to do with this team as a whole being terrible at playing man D.



O'connell's has been tied to Duval almost all year. Even early on, putting in o'connell early in games was the answer to Duval not coming out of the gate right. This is made abundantly clear with the UNC and GT games, where Duval was replaced by O'connell for large stretches of times, including when Duval was benched.

Duval starts playing better, O'connell sees his minutes go down. It's not a secret....It's no slight of O'connell, but when Duval is out there busting his butt like he can and has the past 3 games, O'connell will see his minutes limited. I expect 5 minutes to be his ceiling to get duval and grayson each 2-3 minutes of break a game.

I don't see O'Connell's reduction in minutes as a slight on his performance, but rather as a recognition of Duval's improvement. O'Connell is still a lankly guard or small forward who is quick and fairly explosive but is still thin for the position. He is a good shooter but tends to defer too much(many freshmen do) and gets rid of the ball rather like a hot potato instead of trying to make a play. Much of his improvement will come when he gains strength and confidence in his ability which is surely there. Maybe he won't get a lot of play this year barring injury to others and will have to work hard to get his time next year but this kid is a valuable asset to the team now and going forward.

[Furniture]

The one where Grayson hugs Trevon like Quinn might've hugged Tyus, right?

Funny how a switch to a defensive scheme the players can execute, and all of a sudden Grayson's a great leader, and the players care; they play for 40 minutes; they play for each other and for Duke and not for their draft stock.

It's almost as if those intangible concerns weren't the problem all along.

Maybe they realize that if they ‘play’ for Duke they are ‘playing’ for their draft stock.

[CDu]

O'connell's has been tied to Duval almost all year. Even early on, putting in o'connell early in games was the answer to Duval not coming out of the gate right. This is made abundantly clear with the UNC and GT games, where Duval was replaced by O'connell for large stretches of times, including when Duval was benched.

Duval starts playing better, O'connell sees his minutes go down. It's not a secret...It's no slight of O'connell, but when Duval is out there busting his butt like he can and has the past 3 games, O'connell will see his minutes limited. I expect 5 minutes to be his ceiling to get duval and grayson each 2-3 minutes of break a game.

Yep, it does not really seem all that complicated. Duval and Allen are playing at a high level defensively now that we have committed to the zone, and because we are in the zone we don't need to go deeper at guard. And O'Connell is a guard. So if those two don't come out, we just don't need O'Connell on the floor.

[UrinalCake]

Piecing together what several others have said, the team has undergone several changes that all occurred right around the same time:

- Bagley got hurt
- we committed to the zone as our primary defense
- Allen moved to the point while Duval moved off the ball
- Allen regained his shooting touch
- Javin and Bolden got healthy
- Jack White has replaced Alex as the first guard/wing off the bench

On top of that you have the natural maturing of the freshmen as they continue to grow each game. So I don't think it's fair to say that removing Bagley is the only reason for our improved play since the UNC game. Lots of factors involved. I do think there will be an adjustment period when he comes back, but if we can get all of these pieces to fit together and add in a 20/10 guy then our ceiling is enormously high.

[CDu]

Piecing together what several others have said, the team has undergone several changes that all occurred right around the same time:

- Bagley got hurt
- we committed to the zone as our primary defense
- Allen moved to the point while Duval moved off the ball
- Javin and Bolden got healthy
- Jack White has replaced Alex as the first guard/wing off the bench

On top of that you have the natural maturing of the freshmen as they continue to grow each game. So I don't think it's fair to say that removing Bagley is the only reason for our improved play since the UNC game. Lots of factors involved. I do think there will be an adjustment period when he comes back, but if we can get all of these pieces to fit together then our ceiling is enormously high.

Minor quibble, but White hasn't replaced O'Connell as a guard/wing. Duval has. The Zone has allowed Duval to join Allen in the ironman club, which means we really don't need guards. So White has been playing exclusively as a forward in the 2-3 zone. Since Bagley is out, he is getting the minutes DeLaurier used to get backing up Bagley and Trent at forward.

Purely semantics, but I think it is an important distinction because there has been a recurring question as to why O'Connell isn't playing. O'Connell isn't playing because we haven't needed another guard since we went purely to the zone, while we HAVE needed an extra body on the back line of the zone with Bagley out.

Beyond that, I agree. I think the improvement in defense is purely coincidental to Bagley's injury, not a result of it.

[uh_no]

Apologies on being unclear - my point is that the team’s decision to play more zone has created more opportunities for White to play. He is playing more minutes thanks in part to us playing more zone. I am certainly not suggesting the team is playing more zone because it is the D White excels at.

Got it. Though I think in this case, it would have more to do with bagley being out. That said, i'm also not sure I agree his minutes have increased. Or more correctly, his current share of minutes has largely been the same since the first pitt game, which does NOT coincide with the dedication to zone. (the trend since then is an extra .1 minute per game, with a terrible R^2 of .01).

So yes, it has increased since the start of ACC play, but not since pitt.

[rsvman]

Grayson has such a quick release on the catch and shoot. It's like he receives the ball and puts it up all in one motion. Such a weapon that he can get off whenever he wants, and he hits a high percentages of them. I feel like he wasn't pulling the trigger like that when he was in the midst of his shooting slump. So happy to see him get out that slump while still doing all of the other things that he's been doing all along - leading the team, calling out plays, hustling on defense.

Just about everybody played great. Javin and White attacked the offensive boards relentlessly, they know that their defenders are helping off them and they cash in. Wendell looked Shelden-esque on the inside, he just controlled the paint. Gary was a little quiet and Duval made some playground-play type of mistakes, but as a whole the team performance was awesome.

Don't underestimate the importance of Gary's role in the new defense. He in an important part of why our defense is getting so much better. He just GETS it. He seems to always be in the right place at the right time.

[BandAlum83]

Piecing together what several others have said, the team has undergone several changes that all occurred right around the same time:

- Bagley got hurt
- we committed to the zone as our primary defense
- Allen moved to the point while Duval moved off the ball
- Allen regained his shooting touch
- Javin and Bolden got healthy
- Jack White has replaced Alex as the first guard/wing off the bench

On top of that you have the natural maturing of the freshmen as they continue to grow each game. So I don't think it's fair to say that removing Bagley is the only reason for our improved play since the UNC game. Lots of factors involved. I do think there will be an adjustment period when he comes back, but if we can get all of these pieces to fit together and add in a 20/10 guy then our ceiling is enormously high.

Defense drives offense. Turnovers, steals, blocked shots, run outs, fast breaks, etc. can all fuel an offense. I see that happening the past few games. Grayson re-emerging, hunting his shot, playing with joy and confidence is also apparent.

K will need all of his coaching chops to now re-integrate MBIII into the play. Has it become abundantly clear to Grayson that this is his team now? Previously, the play was driven through MBIII to the point that Grayson was looking deferential. Was that scheme, or because of all the items that have now changed (Grayson now at point, defense is now zone, healthy players). Or is it simply that Grayson has found his shot again?

Whatever "it" is, can Grayson keep it up when Bagley returns? We need this Grayson to make a serious run. Sophomore Grayson and even better emerging gives us 2 first team all-Americans and one second team (Carter) on the team. Can/will they co-exist to optimization?

The fourth game without Bagley has now made me worry even more about "reintegration." I would hate to see back sliding, but maybe zone and Grayson on point is the thing, and not that Grayson was forced to take the offensive reigns with MBIII out.

I think the roof has been raised and our ceiling is even higher than I thought a month ago. (Take that, MJ!!)

I do hope this post makes sense. It's a bit stream of consciousness.

[House G]

Also, while it is cliche to talk about the international player being better at zone D than man-to-man, I think it is very clear that White has some of the best zone D instincts on the team. It is no coincidence that his increased minutes have coincided with the team’s increasing reliance on zone, though Bagley’s absence is likely the number one factor. White looked lost at times in man-to-man where his relative lack of quickness hurt him, but he moves great in the zone and is also a great rebounder.

I do find the sudden drop in O’Connell’s minutes after his first start to be odd. Perhaps he has a bit of the inverse issue and is still struggling with the zone relative to his teammates, or maybe it is something else we don’t have visibility into.

I agree with this and would also like to recognize White’s contribution to our zone defense. He seems to understand positioning and boxing out. Last night, he had 5 boards in 15 minutes. He has beefed up since high school but appears to have pretty good hops to me. He’s comfortable mixing it up with bigger guys on both ends of the court. The interesting thing to me is that he appears to have a green light to shoot an open three which suggests he must have some range in practice. Maybe he just needs a couple to go down. Last year and earlier this year, I figured he either wasn’t very good or was a victim of the short bench. Now he seems to be gaining confidence with more PT. It will be interesting to see what his role will be when Bagley returns and we get into the tournament. I, for one, hope that White and DeLaurier continue to get significant minutes. Who knows, if K was willing to switch to zone, maybe he’s receptive to playing his bench more come tournament time.

[CDu]

It will be interesting to see what his role will be when Bagley returns and we get into the tournament. I, for one, hope that White and DeLaurier continue to get significant minutes. Who knows, if K was willing to switch to zone, maybe he’s receptive to playing his bench more come tournament time.

I suspect that when Bagley returns, White's minutes will go the way of O'Connell's minutes. The value of the zone is that it tends to slow the game down and reduces foul risk, so you don't have to go as deep into your bench. So if anything, the switch to zone would seem to play right into Coach K's preference for a shorter rotation. We've certainly seen it with O'Connell now that Duval and Allen are playing 38-40 minutes per competitive game. And I suspect we'll see the same with White once Bagley comes back.

[ncexnyc]

Seems strange that several people want to tie AOC's minutes solely to Trevon's play. The fact is we are playing three guards at anyone time with Gary, Trevon, and Grayson being on the floor. Alex has lost playing time to Jack, it's that simple. Jack is bigger and stronger and helps with rebounding and defense, something this team needed.

[thedukelamere]

I suspect that when Bagley returns, White's minutes will go the way of O'Connell's minutes. The value of the zone is that it tends to slow the game down and reduces foul risk, so you don't have to go as deep into your bench. So if anything, the switch to zone would seem to play right into Coach K's preference for a shorter rotation. We've certainly seen it with O'Connell now that Duval and Allen are playing 38-40 minutes per competitive game. And I suspect we'll see the same with White once Bagley comes back.

Unless your name is Javin Delaurier :p

[Rich]

I agree with this and would also like to recognize White’s contribution to our zone defense. He seems to understand positioning and boxing out. Last night, he had 5 boards in 15 minutes. He has beefed up since high school but appears to have pretty good hops to me. He’s comfortable mixing it up with bigger guys on both ends of the court. The interesting thing to me is that he appears to have a green light to shoot an open three which suggests he must have some range in practice. Maybe he just needs a couple to go down. Last year and earlier this year, I figured he either wasn’t very good or was a victim of the short bench. Now he seems to be gaining confidence with more PT. It will be interesting to see what his role will be when Bagley returns and we get into the tournament. I, for one, hope that White and DeLaurier continue to get significant minutes. Who knows, if K was willing to switch to zone, maybe he’s receptive to playing his bench more come tournament time.

Since communication is so important on defense, I'm impressed how the team is able to understand White since he speaks Australian. :rolleyes:

[uh_no]

Seems strange that several people want to tie AOC's minutes solely to Trevon's play. The fact is we are playing three guards at anyone time with Gary, Trevon, and Grayson being on the floor. Alex has lost playing time to Jack, it's that simple. Jack is bigger and stronger and helps with rebounding and defense, something this team needed.

Jack's minutes have not changed significantly....plus your assertion is flat out wrong:

8105

Alex's minutes since the start of ACC play show zero correlation with jacks minutes. none. .001 R^2 with a slope of 0.

On the other hand, Alex's minutes show an extremely strong correlation with Duval's. R^2= .5, slope of -.5

Alex plays 2 minutes more for every 1 minute less Duval plays.

[El_Diablo]

I think the discrepancy we are seeing is that Bagley's absence coincides exactly with the point in the season that the team fully committed to zone. It's no secret that we seemed to be playing better in zone than man-to-man all season. And the defense had been playing better midseason with Bagley when we started playing more zone. Towards the end of the road, we had the last gasps of trying to be a man-to-man team, and the defense took steps backwards accordingly. Well, now we are playing exclusively zone.

I completely agree. All of the posters criticizing Bagley's defense are looking at it through a somewhat distorted lens by focusing on the time before we fully committed to the zone (when everyone looked pretty bad on defense, whether it was defending the pick-and-roll or learning positioning in a zone that we were not fully practicing yet). Give Bagley the time in the zone that the rest of the team has had the past couple weeks (both in practice and in games), and I am pretty confident that he would be just fine, given his motor, athleticism, instincts and vision.

That said, he will probably still need some time to ramp up and focus on his zone role (during which time the rest of the team will hopefully be getting even more comfortable in their roles), so it may take some time to catch up. And we are starting to run out of time for that to happen.

[Tripping William]

Since communication is so important on defense, I'm impressed how the team is able to understand White since he speaks Australian. :rolleyes:

I believe this comment belongs in the Ymmm, Foster's thread . . . . .

[devildeac]

Unless your name is Javin Delaurier :p

And I'll take his fouls/production/performance (if needed) twice weekly for the rest of the regular season, 3 times in the ACCT and 6 times in the ncaaT. ;):D

[CDu]

Whew! What a fun game that was! Just a thorough beatdown of a bubble team, the type of team we'd likely see in the second game of the NCAA tournament. Very nice to see the team look so good out there.

There were very few negatives from last night's game. The only two that jump to mind (and these are fairly nitpicky anyway) are that Duval was a little sloppy with his passes and shot selection and DeLaurier was a little sloppy overall. There were a few head-scratchers in the second half from Duval, but I think that was more a function of being in cruise-control than anything, as we were trying to pour it on late. And DeLaurier missed some rotations early (most notably on the first possession), fouled too much, and struggled catching passes in a few cases. But again, this is REALLY nitpicky stuff. Everyone played really well overall.

Now to the good:
- Wendell Carter was just a beast out there. Led the team in rebounds and blocks as expected. But he also led the team in assists! And put up an uber-efficient 18 points (best points-per-shot among the starters). Just a great night for him. He's really playing well in the 2-man game with Allen offensively, and the zone really hides his deficiencies on the perimeter defensively.
- Allen was again fantastic. The switch to have him as the primary playmaker has been amazingly effective. He's hunting his shot, and super involved in every offensive possession. Loving his re-emergence. He's a game-changer when combined with the rest of the talent on the floor
- While he isn't the PG anymore, Duval has been a huge plus of late. He was definitely so again last night. He is electric in the zone, and has really committed to hustling for loose balls of late, as evidenced by his 6 rebounds last night. And the zone really plays to his ballhawking skills. I also like his play in the press. He is just such a menace out there. And the zone hides his biggest weakness defensively, which is handling of ball screens. The shot selection still needs some work, as he was a little too jumper-happy last night. But overall I'll take what he's giving right now every day of the week.
- While DeLaurier still has a bit of a "puppy trying to figure out how to use his body" in his game, it's nice to see him appearing healthy again. He's a dynamic weapon off the ball with his athleticism. He's a very solid rebounder (not Carter/Bagley good, but pretty good), and a threat to get blocks and steals as well. And while he's really raw offensively, he stays in his lane. Loving his re-emergence, and I feel quite good about what he can give us for 10-15 minutes a night when needed. I do hope we continue to give him those 10-15 minutes once Bagley returns.
- As others have noted, Jack White had a solid night too. He's a terrific defensive rebounder for his size, and like DeLaurier stays in his lane offensively. The zone does a really good job of protecting him too, as in man-to-man he's kind of a man without a position (not really big enough to defend bigs, not quick enough to defend wings/guards). But on the back line of a 2-3 zone, with great guards and a couple of shotblocking presences on the back line with him, he's not bad at all.
- I also am really loving the progression of Marques Bolden. He's averaging 5.8 points, 3.4 rebounds, and 1.2 blocks in 17.8 mpg over the past 5 games. No, that's not spectacular. But it's a solid contribution from a backup center and fifth option offensively, especially when paired with strong rebounders like Bagley, Carter, and DeLaurier. Really happy to see him playing solid basketball. I was worried that the zone would really hurt his value, but he seems to be settling in nicely. Again, I don't expect him to see more than 10-15 mpg once Bagley comes back. But I don't dread when Carter has to sit now.
- The only guy who had a so-so night was Trent. He's very jumpshot dependent. When his shot is falling, he's a game-changer. When it is not, he can often disappear. Tonight, his shot wasn't quite on. But even with a slightly off shooting night, he had a very efficient 11 points on 8 FGA. And he played solid defense on both the backline and briefly up front when Duval sat.

The switch to full-time zone has been a game-changer for this team. It is just such a good fit for hiding the weaknesses of this squad, and they have really responded to it. Incorporating some full-court pressure into the mix has allowed them to play with some swagger on that end too. And of course, offensively moving Allen to the point and running so much of the offense through him has really reignited him. Really loving the direction the team is going right now. Let's hope it continues. Next week will be a real test.

[devildeac]

I believe this comment belongs in the Ymmm, Foster's thread . . . . .

But, Foster's (or Jack White) are *not* Australian for beer. :p

[tbyers11]

Don't underestimate the importance of Gary's role in the new defense. He in an important part of why our defense is getting so much better. He just GETS it. He seems to always be in the right place at the right time.

I didn't focus on Gary much last night so I can't comment specifically about Louisville. But, in general, I find Marvin and Gary to be the biggest offenders at not being in the right place at the right time in the zone. It is a small sample size in a finite time period but Gary being out of position was directly responsible for Clemson's first 2 threes last Sunday.

[CDu]

I didn't focus on Gary much last night so I can't comment specifically about Louisville. But, in general, I find Marvin and Gary to be the biggest offenders at not being in the right place at the right time in the zone. It is a small sample size in a finite time period but Gary being out of position was directly responsible for Clemson's first 2 threes last Sunday.

I think you can do the same for DeLaurier and White as well. And Carter when he is forced to play forward next to Bolden. Playing the forward in an aggressive 2-3 zone is not easy (easier than man-to-man, but not easy). It still takes a great deal of focus, and we can always find examples where guys weren't where they were supposed to be.

[DukieInBrasil]

i only really watched the 1st half which was very impressive in and of itself. It was great to check in after the game and see that Duke was able to expand the lead from the half, something this team has struggled to do, so kudos to the team for getting ever closer to that complete 40-minute performance.
Really nice to see all of Duke's role players doing good things: Jack White scoring and rebounding, AOC scored rebounded and assisted, Javin being amazingly springy for the put back dunks and blocks, Marques scoring efficiently and rebounding, even J-Rob and Vrank grabbed a board. The only player to not generate a stat was J-Gold, but he's had solid games before.
My favorite thing though is that Duke's defense not only looks competent, but really good. Trevon in that zone is really picking off passes and it is good for the team. Trevon didn't score particularly well, but he had good assist/turn numbers and his defense was superb.
The only quibble i have is with DBR's front page article: Jack White has been playing very well lately, and i like what he brings to the table. He's shooting 10% on the year from 3, so i would have to argue that he doesn't really bring 3pt shooting to the table.
Anyway, excellent win! Really looks like this team is starting to coalesce around an identity and figure out how to use its talents! Go Duke!!!!

[tbyers11]

I think you can do the same for DeLaurier and White as well. And Carter when he is forced to play forward next to Bolden. Playing the forward in an aggressive 2-3 zone is not easy (easier than man-to-man, but not easy). It still takes a great deal of focus, and we can always find examples where guys weren't where they were supposed to be.

True. It was just that my intuitive reaction to Gary's D was the exact opposite from rsvman's

But much of my recollection of poor defense from Gary (and Marvin) in zone was before we fully committed to it and from small sample size anecdotes.

[Kedsy]

It's interesting how short our memories seem to be. Less than two weeks ago, we were coming off our second straight poor defensive (and overall) performance and people around here were saying the team's never going to get it, and now after a few good games those same people are saying we get it now. As UC said earlier, we've changed a whole lot of moving parts in the past few games and so far it has worked out well. But if we have a bad game in the next week (which is very possible -- I'm guessing possibly @Va Tech), I hope people don't immediately jump off the bandwagon again. Young teams have ups and downs. Hopefully, we'll be up when we need to be from here on in.


Would like to see the foul rate stats during the past 4 games compared to the rest of the season.

In the Tracking Duke's Defense (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?40707-Tracking-Duke%92s-Defense) thread, I've listed our opposing free throw rate on a game-by-game basis.


I think you can do the same for DeLaurier and White as well. And Carter when he is forced to play forward next to Bolden. Playing the forward in an aggressive 2-3 zone is not easy (easier than man-to-man, but not easy). It still takes a great deal of focus, and we can always find examples where guys weren't where they were supposed to be.

Yeah, we're still so young, even in the zone, so we're going to make young mistakes periodically. The key is how well we do overall, and defensively the past few games that has been very good.

Though I admit I had the exact same reaction as tbyers to rsvman's post. I was grumbling loudly at my TV when Gary being egregiously out of position led directly to 9 points in 3 early possessions against Clemson. He settled down after that, though.

[CDu]

Though I admit I had the exact same reaction as tbyers to rsvman's post. I was grumbling loudly at my TV when Gary being egregiously out of position led directly to 9 points in 3 early possessions against Clemson. He settled down after that, though.

Oh, I definitely agree here. Those were frustrating, especially in (fairly) rapid succession.

I had a similar moment with DeLaurier last night to start the game. He left a guy wide open on the block with nobody else on his side of the court, just ball-watching. As you said, everyone is still figuring it out. And even when we have it figured out, it's still a zone, and without a clear assignment sometimes guys will be in the wrong spots.

[thedukelamere]

Oh, I definitely agree here. Those were frustrating, especially in (fairly) rapid succession.

I had a similar moment with DeLaurier last night to start the game. He left a guy wide open on the block with nobody else on his side of the court, just ball-watching. As you said, everyone is still figuring it out. And even when we have it figured out, it's still a zone, and without a clear assignment sometimes guys will be in the wrong spots.

Here's my favorite example of "ball-watching" last night, even though it's not really fair to Deng Adel since 1) he's trying to help on Wendell and 2) Wendell quarterbacks him out of position with a pump fake... Maybe I just loved Padgett's reaction and have been looking for a reason to post it.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/EnragedSlushyAmbushbug-small.gif

[kako]

5 thoughts on the game:

1. Duke never gave Louisville a chance to use the title strip as motivation. The Devils blew them out early, and they were done. 1 week ago (based on Louisville's play), I don't think this happens. Credit Duke for their play, assist to the NCAA.

2. Love love love Allen's overall play now. It's not the scoring per se, but hunting his shot and being aggressive. A small quibble with his TOs, but overall the guy should just keep playing like he's playing.

3. Duval's defense has obviously picked up. But I still cringe each time he throws up a jumper. I guess our rebounding makes up some of the misses. Pass first, pass first, pass first. I kind of feel like Norman Dale in Hoosiers, telling Strap "don't shoot unless you are under the basket, all by yourself!" OK, he can shoot under the basket in traffic. Please limit jumpers to open with less than 3 seconds on the shot clock.

4. I see the talk on White. Yes, he's been serviceable. But I would guess his minutes drop when Bagley returns. Bolden and DeLaurier are better. But at least if K has to turn to him, he's a known commodity.

5. I want to see Trent drain 3's against Cuse. I don't want to trade Allen getting hot for Trent getting cold. It's time to start hitting on all cylinders.

[Kfanarmy]

Whew! What a fun game that was! Just a thorough beatdown of a bubble team, the type of team we'd likely see in the second game of the NCAA tournament. Very nice to see the team look so good out there.

There were very few negatives from last night's game. The only two that jump to mind (and these are fairly nitpicky anyway) are that Duval was a little sloppy with his passes and shot selection and DeLaurier was a little sloppy overall. There were a few head-scratchers in the second half from Duval, but I think that was more a function of being in cruise-control than anything, as we were trying to pour it on late. And DeLaurier missed some rotations early (most notably on the first possession), fouled too much, and struggled catching passes in a few cases. But again, this is REALLY nitpicky stuff. Everyone played really well overall.

....

Interesting. I know they appear sloppy sometimes, but I think some of those passes are really near misses that would be complete if the team had another season under their belt. He is anticipating where a teammate is going to move. Duval threw a few passes last night that I think Duke fans would marvel at if his teammates had stepped to the open passing lane at the right moment. Without that kind of aggressiveness, I don't think a team ever gets to the point where they can take full advantage of a great PGs skills. It is unfortunate he likely won't be there next year, but someone is going to be on the receiving end of some incredible passes from Duval in the not so distant future. IMO

[budwom]

I suspect that when Bagley returns, White's minutes will go the way of O'Connell's minutes. The value of the zone is that it tends to slow the game down and reduces foul risk, so you don't have to go as deep into your bench. So if anything, the switch to zone would seem to play right into Coach K's preference for a shorter rotation. We've certainly seen it with O'Connell now that Duval and Allen are playing 38-40 minutes per competitive game. And I suspect we'll see the same with White once Bagley comes back.

Won't argue with that, but ironically it would appear that the zone is giving us a LOT more fast break opportunities than we've had previously this season, so in those limited situations we're playing somewhat faster.

Overall though I agree, the zone slows things down...

[MChambers]

That was fun to watch. I didn’t expect such an easy win.

Ray Spalding can play. If I were David Padgett, I’d name Spalding captain.

[Skydog]

Piecing together what several others have said, the team has undergone several changes that all occurred right around the same time:

- Bagley got hurt
- we committed to the zone as our primary defense
- Allen moved to the point while Duval moved off the ball
- Allen regained his shooting touch
- Javin and Bolden got healthy
- Jack White has replaced Alex as the first guard/wing off the bench

On top of that you have the natural maturing of the freshmen as they continue to grow each game. So I don't think it's fair to say that removing Bagley is the only reason for our improved play since the UNC game. Lots of factors involved. I do think there will be an adjustment period when he comes back, but if we can get all of these pieces to fit together and add in a 20/10 guy then our ceiling is enormously high.

-Another significant factor that changed simultaneously with Bagley going out - game difficulty:
Last 4 games where we went 1-3 with Bagley: VA (#1), ND (#30), @SJ (#75), and @ UNC (#7). KP tier rankings: A,B,A,A.
Last 4 games where we went 4-0 w/o Bagley: @GT(#123), VT(#28), @CL(#17), LV(#38). KP tier rankings: B,B,A,B.

I'm adding this to UrinalCake's list because I agree with him - a lot of things changed at the same time Bagley went out. Blindly assuming he was the problem (see recent Chronicle article for example) while ignoring all the other factors that have contributed to our recent winning streak is both unfair to him and -dare I say - stupid. Now I don't know if Bagley's return will be a problem for our defense (and offense) or not. But I do know it's silly to just assume it will.

[TKG]

8112

[duke74]

That was fun to watch. I didn’t expect such an easy win.

Ray Spalding can play. If I were David Padgett, I’d name Spalding captain.

Good one. But would people call him schnorrer? (I’ll translate that for anyone not of the Tribe.)

https://youtu.be/5BMtqqHRvB8

(Boy, would the opening of the scene not be made now...)

[Rich]

Ray Spalding can play. If I were David Padgett, I’d name Spalding captain.

He does other things too...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_oIshYRqxU

[UrinalCake]

-Another significant factor that changed simultaneously with Bagley going out - game difficulty:

That definitely needs to be taken into account as well. I mean, our defense looked really good against Wake and Pitt with Bagley playing.

There's some amount of luck involved too. We caught VTech in a letdown game after they beat UVA. Clemson had an extra injury to Mitchell on top of Grantham, and Louisville had just lost its soul.