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duketaylor
02-20-2018, 12:26 PM
Must vacate all wins from 2011-2012 through 2014-2015, including 2013 NC.

WillJ
02-20-2018, 12:27 PM
Must vacate all wins from 2011-2012 through 2014-2015, including 2013 NC.

Wow. The NCAA must be really mad at UNC.

hudlow
02-20-2018, 12:32 PM
Make up call...

moonpie23
02-20-2018, 12:34 PM
can't even read all this crap........l'ville ? and unc skates?


bah!

dukebluesincebirth
02-20-2018, 12:41 PM
Stripped for strippers?? No way!

Tom B.
02-20-2018, 12:43 PM
can't even read all this crap...l'ville ? and unc skates?


bah!

If only Louisville had the foresight to make the hookers and strippers available to the whole student body...

flyingdutchdevil
02-20-2018, 12:46 PM
If only Louisville had the foresight to make the hookers and strippers available to the whole student body...

Su-porkes!

uh_no
02-20-2018, 12:59 PM
If only Louisville had the foresight to make the hookers and strippers available to the whole student body...

or create a "sexual studies" department

duketaylor
02-20-2018, 01:03 PM
$15M of revenue sharing must be returned-assume that means to ACC. $5000 fine.

duketaylor
02-20-2018, 01:05 PM
Fun/creative opportunity for Crazies tomorrow night!

UrinalCake
02-20-2018, 01:06 PM
Mistakes made by Louisville:
- not providing strippers to non-students
- self-imposing their own penalties
- admitting fault
- taking corrective actions
- responding quickly instead of delaying for years
- not claiming everything was a typo
- having a conscience

Seriously, if they had done things the Carolina Way they would have gotten off scott-free

WiJoe
02-20-2018, 01:12 PM
Will have finger on mute button tomorrow night when Mr. Know It All Bilas bloviates about this.

cspan37421
02-20-2018, 01:18 PM
Mistakes made by Louisville:
- not providing strippers to non-athletes
- self-imposing their own penalties
- admitting fault
- taking corrective actions
- responding quickly instead of delaying for years
- not claiming everything was a typo
- having a conscience

Seriously, if they had done things the Carolina Way they would have gotten off scott-free

FTFY

cspan37421
02-20-2018, 01:20 PM
or create a "sexual studies" department

oh, the joke is too easy, but the tempting wordplay is probably no longer welcome banter. Suffice it to say it refers to taking courses in another country.

Tom B.
02-20-2018, 01:26 PM
So what does Pitino do about this?

Rick Pitino keeps his promise and gets a tattoo to celebrate his Louisville Cardinals NCAA title (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/pitino-promise-tattoo-celebrate-title-article-1.1328277)


8090

DukeWarhead
02-20-2018, 01:29 PM
Does this mean that Duke made it to the Final Four in '13? heh.

BD80
02-20-2018, 01:35 PM
So what does Pitino do about this?

Rick Pitino keeps his promise and gets a tattoo to celebrate his Louisville Cardinals NCAA title (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/pitino-promise-tattoo-celebrate-title-article-1.1328277)


8090

Must be vacated ...

PackMan97
02-20-2018, 01:37 PM
In an effort to be more civil, allow me to paraphrase the great bard, Shakespeare.

Friends, DBR posters, countrymen, lend me your ears;
I come to bury Pitino and Louisville, not to praise them.
The evil that programs do lives after them;
The wins and championships are oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with Louisville. The noble Bilas
Hath told you Pitino was ambitious:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Pitino answer’d it.
Here, under leave of Bilas and the rest–
For Bilas is an honourable man;
So are they all, all honourable men–
Come I to speak at Louisville’s funeral.
They were my rival, faithful to their academics:
But Bilas says they were ambitious;
And Bilas is an honourable man.
They hath brought many athletes home to Louisville
Whose revenues did the general revenues fill:
Did this in Pitino seem ambitious?
When that their opponents have cried, Pitino hath wept:
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff:
Yet Bilas says he was ambitious;
And Bilas is an honourable man.
You all did see that on the TV
Twice was he presented him a NCAA crown,
Which he did once vacate: was this ambition?
Yet Bilas says he was ambitious;
And, sure, he is an honourable man.
I speak not to disprove what Bilas spoke,
But here I am to speak what I do know.
You all did love him once, not without cause:
What cause withholds you then, to mourn for him?
O judgment! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And the NCAA have lost their reason. Bear with me;
My heart is in the coffin there with Lousiville,
And I must pause till it come back to me.

CameronBornAndBred
02-20-2018, 01:43 PM
So what does Pitino do about this?

Rick Pitino keeps his promise and gets a tattoo to celebrate his Louisville Cardinals NCAA title (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/pitino-promise-tattoo-celebrate-title-article-1.1328277)


8090


Must be vacated ...

8091

dukelifer
02-20-2018, 01:49 PM
Does this mean that Duke made it to the Final Four in '13? heh.

And the kid who broke his leg-leading to second half inspiration against Duke- has to return his ring as well.

UrinalCake
02-20-2018, 01:56 PM
And the kid who broke his leg-leading to second half inspiration against Duke- has to return his ring as well.


Maybe not.
8092

jv001
02-20-2018, 01:57 PM
Just looking at the title of this thread, makes me hate the Cheat program that much more. Not much to say but GTHC and GoDuke!

Bluegrassdevil1
02-20-2018, 02:03 PM
And the kid who broke his leg-leading to second half inspiration against Duke- has to return his ring as well.

The kid that broke his leg participated in more than a few activities which should have prevented him from participating in said activity that led to the injury.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-20-2018, 02:11 PM
The kid that broke his leg participated in more than a few activities which should have prevented him from participating in said activity that led to the injury.

If Louisville is vacating the wins of that season, can we somehow vacate my memory of that horrible injury?

mbwalker
02-20-2018, 02:36 PM
So if Louisville vacates the 2013 title, does it go to runner-up Michigan or is there just no NCAA champion in 2013?

Similarly, do all the losses against Louisville during the vacating period become wins for the teams they beat, or is it just a reduction in the number of Louisville's wins?

atoomer0881
02-20-2018, 02:38 PM
So if Louisville vacates the 2013 title, does it go to runner-up Michigan or is there just no NCAA champion in 2013?

Similarly, do all the losses against Louisville during the vacating period become wins for the teams they beat, or is it just a reduction in the number of Louisville's wins?

Michigan is still the runner up. There's just no technical champion from 2013. And same with the other wins. Louisville takes losses on those but so do the teams they beat. There was just no winner in those games, if I am not mistaken.

devildeac
02-20-2018, 02:39 PM
In an effort to be more civil, allow me to paraphrase the great bard, Shakespeare.

Friends, DBR posters, countrymen, lend me your ears;
I come to bury Pitino and Louisville, not to praise them.
The evil that programs do lives after them;
The wins and championships are oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with Louisville. The noble Bilas
Hath told you Pitino was ambitious:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Pitino answer’d it.
Here, under leave of Bilas and the rest–
For Bilas is an honourable man;
So are they all, all honourable men–
Come I to speak at Louisville’s funeral.
They were my rival, faithful to their academics:
But Bilas says they were ambitious;
And Bilas is an honourable man.
They hath brought many athletes home to Louisville
Whose revenues did the general revenues fill:
Did this in Pitino seem ambitious?
When that their opponents have cried, Pitino hath wept:
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff:
Yet Bilas says he was ambitious;
And Bilas is an honourable man.
You all did see that on the TV
Twice was he presented him a NCAA crown,
Which he did once vacate: was this ambition?
Yet Bilas says he was ambitious;
And, sure, he is an honourable man.
I speak not to disprove what Bilas spoke,
But here I am to speak what I do know.
You all did love him once, not without cause:
What cause withholds you then, to mourn for him?
O judgment! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And the NCAA have lost their reason. Bear with me;
My heart is in the coffin there with Lousiville,
And I must pause till it come back to me.

"You must spread some Comments around before commenting on PackMan97 again."

Well done.

uh_no
02-20-2018, 02:40 PM
Michigan is still the runner up. There's just no technical champion from 2013. And same with the other wins. Louisville takes losses on those but so do the teams they beat. There was just no winner in those games, if I am not mistaken.

I don't believe UL takes losses. I believe for UL, it's as if the game didn't happen.

PackMan97
02-20-2018, 02:40 PM
So if Louisville vacates the 2013 title, does it go to runner-up Michigan or is there just no NCAA champion in 2013?

Similarly, do all the losses against Louisville during the vacating period become wins for the teams they beat, or is it just a reduction in the number of Louisville's wins?

No. A vacated win is just that a win a school can no longer claim as a win. It does nothing for their opponent and nothing to their loss total.

A forfeited game on the other hand, flips the result for both teams. If the game were won, it shows up as a forfeit and the loser gets to claim a W.

atoomer0881
02-20-2018, 02:41 PM
I don't believe UL takes losses. I believe for UL, it's as if the game didn't happen.

Yea my bad I think you are right. What about the teams who they beat? Do they still have losses or did the games not happen?

devildeac
02-20-2018, 02:45 PM
Words fail me about the ncaa. Well, they really don't fail me but there is an active Civility thread and I'd like to maintain my posting privileges.

Hope they don't come to Derm for the game this week with a huge chip on their collective shoulders.

Yet the COI couldn't punish the cheaters for obvious/admitted academic fraud and/or impermissible benefits that continued for about 23 years.

Pathetic.

dudog84
02-20-2018, 02:57 PM
I promised myself I'd watch Grayson's senior year and could stomach the NCAA just a little longer, but man it's tough. And it's really tempting to want to watch the kids we've got coming next year. But I really feel I'm watching/supporting a corrupt enterprise. I may really be done. But I've said that before and the lure of the game and Duke pulls me back.

On the plus side, the disdain for uNC at other schools (Louisville, Notre Dame, etc.) must be off the charts.

Edit: Please don't construe this to be condoning Louisville in any way.

willowglen
02-20-2018, 03:15 PM
Setting aside the NCAA’s decision on UNC, which was absurd, just why is it that Louisville was invited into the ACC? They have little in common academically or culturally with the rest of the league, and have long had a reputation- obviously harming them here - of being a bandit school. Is anyone really surprised when scandal hits Louisville? Putting them in the league was a regrettable move.

CameronBornAndBred
02-20-2018, 03:36 PM
Setting aside the NCAA’s decision on UNC, which was absurd, just why is it that Louisville was invited into the ACC?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

53n206
02-20-2018, 03:37 PM
Setting aside the NCAA’s decision on UNC, which was absurd, just why is it that Louisville was invited into the ACC? They have little in common academically or culturally with the rest of the league, and have long had a reputation- obviously harming them here - of being a bandit school. Is anyone really surprised when scandal hits Louisville? Putting them in the league was a regrettable move.
Money talks.

devildeac
02-20-2018, 03:41 PM
Money talks.

and "u"nc walks...

Tripping William
02-20-2018, 03:43 PM
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Money talks.

And this, to me, puts a final nail in the coffin that the Carolina "acquittal," as it were, was about the Heels being "too big to fail." Louisville was a three-time NCAA Tournament champion, with some additional football success to boot (including a Heisman Trophy winner as recently as the year before last). They have cachet, and probably have the licensed-goods revenues to prove it.

All of which has me figuratively tearing my hair out that the tipping-point distinction between UNC and UL is the the former's "benefit" was made "generally available" to students as well as student-athletes, while the latter's was confined only to student-athletes. But that seems, to my eyes, to be the only remaining substantive distinction.

I don't get it.

Clay Feet POF
02-20-2018, 03:59 PM
Will have finger on mute button tomorrow night when Mr. Know It All Bilas bloviates about this.

Plus Tax!

dudog84
02-20-2018, 03:59 PM
Setting aside the NCAA’s decision on UNC, which was absurd, just why is it that Louisville was invited into the ACC? They have little in common academically or culturally with the rest of the league, and have long had a reputation- obviously harming them here - of being a bandit school. Is anyone really surprised when scandal hits Louisville? Putting them in the league was a regrettable move.

Football runs everything. I believe the Louisville stadium has a capacity of about 65,000, with ability to expand to 80,000.

Ian
02-20-2018, 04:02 PM
And this, to me, puts a final nail in the coffin that the Carolina "acquittal," as it were, was about the Heels being "too big to fail." Louisville was a three-time NCAA Tournament champion, with some additional football success to boot (including a Heisman Trophy winner as recently as the year before last). They have cachet, and probably have the licensed-goods revenues to prove it.

All of which has me figuratively tearing my hair out that the tipping-point distinction between UNC and UL is the the former's "benefit" was made "generally available" to students as well as student-athletes, while the latter's was confined only to student-athletes. But that seems, to my eyes, to be the only remaining substantive distinction.

I don't get it.

I think it has to do with UNC for many years being one of the public faces of the NCAA in a way that Louisville has not been, plus the numerous connections people in the NCAA have to UNC. The NCAA can cut bait on Louisville, the have to sink or swim with UNC. Louisville is Bear Stearns, UNC is Goldman Sachs.

bbosbbos
02-20-2018, 04:03 PM
NCAA is so corrupted. Can any schools form a better & clean association to replace it? Everyone is complaining but no action has been taken. :mad::mad::mad:

GTHC GTHC

DarkstarWahoo
02-20-2018, 04:09 PM
"You must spread some Comments around before commenting on PackMan97 again."

Well done.

You and me both, man. That was beautiful.

It is too heavy for your grace to wear.
I weigh it lightly, were it heavier.
What, would you have my spork, little lord?
I would, that I might thank you as you call me.

drummerdevil
02-20-2018, 04:12 PM
If you were going to hand out penalties, hand out penalties. You can't just keep doing this "top programs can succeed" thing if you're going to hand this out to other schools who didn't even cheat as badly.

WiJoe
02-20-2018, 04:25 PM
Setting aside the NCAA’s decision on UNC, which was absurd, just why is it that Louisville was invited into the ACC? They have little in common academically or culturally with the rest of the league, and have long had a reputation- obviously harming them here - of being a bandit school. Is anyone really surprised when scandal hits Louisville? Putting them in the league was a regrettable move.


Cincinnati would have been a much better fit. It's not full of itself like louisville. Better fit academically, too.

dudog84
02-20-2018, 04:30 PM
Cincinnati would have been a much better fit. It's not full of itself like louisville. Better fit academically, too.

Cincinnati's stadium had a capacity of 35,000 when the ACC expanded (since up to 40,000). I doubt they were even in the conversation.

DarkstarWahoo
02-20-2018, 04:53 PM
I imagine UConn was ahead of Cincy in the pecking order, too. (Although BC may have had something to say about that.)

Newton_14
02-20-2018, 04:57 PM
Must vacate all wins from 2011-2012 through 2014-2015, including 2013 NC.
As far as I'm concerned, Louisville is and always will be the 2013 National Champs, and if I were them I would not take down the banner nor erase it from the history books.

I would pay the fine and that would be the end of it.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-20-2018, 04:57 PM
Cincinnati's stadium had a capacity of 35,000 when the ACC expanded (since up to 40,000). I doubt they were even in the conversation.

Is it really stadium size? I would think ticket sales wouldn't even rate compared to other revenue streams. Or is stadium size just indicative of relative fan interest in football?

Duke would never even get a look from power conferences today I guess.

WiJoe
02-20-2018, 04:58 PM
I imagine UConn was ahead of Cincy in the pecking order, too. (Although BC may have had something to say about that.)

ucon(victs)

Hingeknocker
02-20-2018, 04:59 PM
As far as I'm concerned, Louisville is and always will be the 2013 National Champs, and if I were them I would not take down the banner nor erase it from the history books.

I would pay the fine and that would be the end of it.

Same here. And if the NCAA even tried to force the banner to come down, I'd just leave it up but remove the words "NCAA Champions" or whatever it says. Just a giant banner with 2013 on it. Everyone would know what it means anyway.

Kevin Ware had the best take on it. I probably shouldn't print his quote here, but you can find it on Twitter.

NYBri
02-20-2018, 05:04 PM
Gobsmacked.

devilseven
02-20-2018, 05:06 PM
Louisville should put a sign outside chapel hill saying "University of Louisville, 2013 National Champions" right beside the holes 2017 sign.

uh_no
02-20-2018, 05:14 PM
I imagine UConn was ahead of Cincy in the pecking order, too. (Although BC may have had something to say about that.)

from what i've heard, that's exactly what happened.

sagegrouse
02-20-2018, 05:16 PM
As far as I'm concerned, Louisville is and always will be the 2013 National Champs, and if I were them I would not take down the banner nor erase it from the history books.

I would pay the fine and that would be the end of it.

Except it wouldn't be the end of it. "Taking down the banner" is part of the rules -- failure to do so results in further violations.

MChambers
02-20-2018, 05:56 PM
In an effort to be more civil, allow me to paraphrase the great bard, Shakespeare.

Friends, DBR posters, countrymen, lend me your ears;
I come to bury Pitino and Louisville, not to praise them.
The evil that programs do lives after them;
The wins and championships are oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with Louisville. The noble Bilas
Hath told you Pitino was ambitious:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Pitino answer’d it.
Here, under leave of Bilas and the rest–
For Bilas is an honourable man;
So are they all, all honourable men–
Come I to speak at Louisville’s funeral.
They were my rival, faithful to their academics:
But Bilas says they were ambitious;
And Bilas is an honourable man.
They hath brought many athletes home to Louisville
Whose revenues did the general revenues fill:
Did this in Pitino seem ambitious?
When that their opponents have cried, Pitino hath wept:
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff:
Yet Bilas says he was ambitious;
And Bilas is an honourable man.
You all did see that on the TV
Twice was he presented him a NCAA crown,
Which he did once vacate: was this ambition?
Yet Bilas says he was ambitious;
And, sure, he is an honourable man.
I speak not to disprove what Bilas spoke,
But here I am to speak what I do know.
You all did love him once, not without cause:
What cause withholds you then, to mourn for him?
O judgment! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And the NCAA have lost their reason. Bear with me;
My heart is in the coffin there with Lousiville,
And I must pause till it come back to me.

Great post! You deserve a honorary Duke degree for this one. (I mean that in the nicest way possible.)

dudog84
02-20-2018, 07:07 PM
Is it really stadium size? I would think ticket sales wouldn't even rate compared to other revenue streams. Or is stadium size just indicative of relative fan interest in football?

Duke would never even get a look from power conferences today I guess.

Yeah, indicative is what I was trying to get across. Size matters.

Newton_14
02-20-2018, 07:17 PM
Except it wouldn't be the end of it. "Taking down the banner" is part of the rules -- failure to do so results in further violations.
It's my understanding those same rules state that a student-athlete must maintain a certain GPA taking real college coursework, which the entity at the dump on the hump failed to abide by.....

and that's all I got to say about that, but it's really none of my business (sorry couldn't find the picture of Kermit holding his coffee cup)

dudog84
02-20-2018, 07:22 PM
It's my understanding those same rules state that a student-athlete must maintain a certain GPA taking real college coursework, which the entity at the dump on the hump failed to abide by....

and that's all I got to say about that, but it's really none of my business (sorry couldn't find the picture of Kermit holding his coffee cup)

Boy, it's really hard to let go of it, isn't it? I know I can't. It's why I'm wondering if it's better for my mental health (such as it is) to walk away completely.

devilseven
02-20-2018, 07:27 PM
Never, ever let it go!!

Papa John
02-20-2018, 07:28 PM
Words fail me about the ncaa. Well, they really don't fail me but there is an active Civility thread and I'd like to maintain my posting privileges.

Hope they don't come to Derm for the game this week with a huge chip on their collective shoulders.

Yet the COI couldn't punish the cheaters for obvious/admitted academic fraud and/or impermissible benefits that continued for about 23 years.

Pathetic.

The confluence of the UNC, Notre Dame, and Louisville punishment decisions alongside the Adidas scandal, Nasser/MSU scandal, and impending USA swimming scandal has effectively destroyed what we once referred to as the NCAA... this is a dead-man-walking organization right now. The only question is what do things look like on the other side of this massive pile of bovine excrement...

hallcity
02-20-2018, 07:36 PM
Same here. And if the NCAA even tried to force the banner to come down, I'd just leave it up but remove the words "NCAA Champions" or whatever it says. Just a giant banner with 2013 on it. Everyone would know what it means anyway.

Kevin Ware had the best take on it. I probably shouldn't print his quote here, but you can find it on Twitter.

That wouldn't work. When the NCAA vacates wins, they're extremely specific. You have no choice but to remove every last reference to the vacated win, no matter how oblique, from the arena, from press guides and EVERYWHERE else the university controls. There's no wiggle room at all. Anyway, why defend Louisville? Yes, UNC escaped the punishment they deserved but that doesn't mean that Louisville doesn't deserve the punishment they've received.

mgtr
02-20-2018, 08:13 PM
Is there any real effort afield to develop some alternative to the NCAA?

sagegrouse
02-20-2018, 09:05 PM
Is there any real effort afield to develop some alternative to the NCAA?

Two conflicting observations:

(1) "The NCAA is an organization created by the schools to enforce the rules established by the schools." -- Kevin White. In other words, as Pogo says, "We have met the enemy and he is us." Division I basketball includes 351 programs and is probably unmanageable in terms of taking new directions.

(2) Watch the Commission on Basketball and its recommendations. I would not be surprised to see a much smaller "Division I" come out of this process -- maybe 125-150 schools and to see a more powerful management structure (a "Commish"), which would make it possible to organize constructive change and re-make college hoops.

Hingeknocker
02-20-2018, 09:30 PM
That wouldn't work. When the NCAA vacates wins, they're extremely specific. You have no choice but to remove every last reference to the vacated win, no matter how oblique, from the arena, from press guides and EVERYWHERE else the university controls. There's no wiggle room at all. Anyway, why defend Louisville? Yes, UNC escaped the punishment they deserved but that doesn't mean that Louisville doesn't deserve the punishment they've received.

At the risk of being accused of being a Bilas sock puppet, I defend Louisville because the NCAA is indefensible.

Also because, if these misdeeds had been made public, say, prior to the 2012-13 season, a just punishment would not have included forfeiting that entire season. Those players deserved to play, and they won the tournament.

And surely the NCAA isn't drunk on power enough to suggest that they can legislate all references to the year 2013 by a university. Surely.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-20-2018, 09:32 PM
Two conflicting observations:

(1) "The NCAA is an organization created by the schools to enforce the rules established by the schools." -- Kevin White. In other words, as Pogo says, "We have met the enemy and he is us." Division I basketball includes 351 programs and is probably unmanageable in terms of taking new directions.


People overlook this all the time. The NCAA is an evil entity, yes. But, additionally, the NCAA literally IS the institutions. It is made of and serves as the whim of the members.

It isn't an external sadist organization. It is the members.

We have met the enemy and he is us - Pogo

Edit: holy smokes, I literally didn't see the quote, but thought of the same one. I guess I owe you sporks.

devildeac
02-20-2018, 10:24 PM
It's my understanding those same rules state that a student-athlete must maintain a certain GPA taking real college coursework, which the entity at the dump on the hump failed to abide by...

and that's all I got to say about that, but it's really none of my business (sorry couldn't find the picture of Kermit holding his coffee cup)

At your service:

8096

I'll be here the rest of the week. ;)

UrinalCake
02-21-2018, 09:17 AM
Is there any real effort afield to develop some alternative to the NCAA?

Honestly, the closest I’ve seen is the Big Baller league that Lavar Ball is trying to create. Apparently he has approached several top high schoolers about joining, but to my knowledge none have accepted. While Ball is somewhat of a rodeo clown, the notion of some sort of private paid league may actually not be that far away given the NCAA’s current trajectory.

Hingeknocker
02-21-2018, 09:35 AM
Honestly, the closest I’ve seen is the Big Baller league that Lavar Ball is trying to create. Apparently he has approached several top high schoolers about joining, but to my knowledge none have accepted. While Ball is somewhat of a rodeo clown, the notion of some sort of private paid league may actually not be that far away given the NCAA’s current trajectory.

My immediate thought was the Big Baller League, but then I remembered an effort to align a pay-for-play college model with HBCUs. I think it's a fantastic idea, and is perhaps slightly more serious and likely to succeed than the Ball version.

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/59zejz/the-plot-to-disrupt-the-ncaa-with-a-pay-for-play-hbcu-basketball-league

BD80
02-21-2018, 09:56 AM
Honestly, the closest I’ve seen is the Big Baller league that Lavar Ball is trying to create. Apparently he has approached several top high schoolers about joining, but to my knowledge none have accepted. While Ball is somewhat of a rodeo clown, the notion of some sort of private paid league may actually not be that far away given the NCAA’s current trajectory.

You owe apologies to quite a few rodeo clowns.

uh_no
02-21-2018, 10:45 AM
Honestly, the closest I’ve seen is the Big Baller league that Lavar Ball is trying to create. Apparently he has approached several top high schoolers about joining, but to my knowledge none have accepted. While Ball is somewhat of a rodeo clown, the notion of some sort of private paid league may actually not be that far away given the NCAA’s current trajectory.

And how would this differ significantly from, or be more successful than, the D league?

UrinalCake
02-21-2018, 10:55 AM
And how would this differ significantly from, or be more successful than, the D league?

IMO the players would have to be paid more, and they would have to get significant marketing/exposure. I think those are the two biggest drawbacks to the D league and the reasons why high schoolers don’t just go to the D league now. It’s not worth it to be paid $40k and play in mostly empty arenas when you could instead go to college, play in packed stadiums and on TV with millions of viewers, be showcased on ESPN advertising, and receive tuition, stipend, meals, training, etc.

oldnavy
02-21-2018, 11:19 AM
People overlook this all the time. The NCAA is an evil entity, yes. But, additionally, the NCAA literally IS the institutions. It is made of and serves as the whim of the members.

It isn't an external sadist organization. It is the members.

We have met the enemy and he is us - Pogo

Edit: holy smokes, I literally didn't see the quote, but thought of the same one. I guess I owe you sporks.

A lot of folks on this board were very pro NCAA for a position they took a while back...

uh_no
02-21-2018, 11:19 AM
IMO the players would have to be paid more, By whom? nobody is interested in minor league basketball.
and they would have to get significant marketing/exposure. why would someone invest in something nobody wants to watch?


I think those are the two biggest drawbacks to the D league and the reasons why high schoolers don’t just go to the D league now. It’s not worth it to be paid $40k and play in mostly empty arenas when you could instead go to college, play in packed stadiums and on TV with millions of viewers, be showcased on ESPN advertising, and receive tuition, stipend, meals, training, etc.

From a viewers perspective the only difference between college and the D league is the fact that your favorite school is on the front of the jersey. There are plenty of ex-college stars slumming it in the D-leauge. Why doesn't anybody want to watch them?

The colleges hold all the cards here. All of them. There is no interest in watching minor league basketball. The reason the tournament makes gobs of money is fact its tied to schools. Why would people tune in to watch ryan arcidiacono play for nova but not for the windy city bulls? It's because he's playing for nova....not because he's ryan arcidiacono.

The players are a commodity in the college game. We like to treat our players better, but on the whole? They're fungible. Villanova's entire team could be replaced with 12 other guys and people would still watch them. You could swap UNC's team with some D league team, and everyone would watch the UNC team and not the D league.

Say the players went on strike and decided to stop playing....each school could load up with 12 new guys next year, and people would STILL watch. The couple big names who could go straight to the league aside, it turns out that the value of a minor league player is about 40k a year. Whether they're getting that as a salary or as a scholarship is their choice (getting screwed by not actually getting an education aside).

I simply don't see a situation in which an independent league could possibly support, on average, more than the value of a scholarship...and frankly, without the schools, it probably wouldn't be even close. How heavily is the D league subsidized already?

BigWayne
02-21-2018, 11:46 AM
That wouldn't work. When the NCAA vacates wins, they're extremely specific. You have no choice but to remove every last reference to the vacated win, no matter how oblique, from the arena, from press guides and EVERYWHERE else the university controls. There's no wiggle room at all. Anyway, why defend Louisville? Yes, UNC escaped the punishment they deserved but that doesn't mean that Louisville doesn't deserve the punishment they've received.

Or you can do it the Carolina Way and just add asterisks. See page 198. (https://unc_ftp.sidearmsports.com/custompages/football/2016footballguide-o.pdf)

oldnavy
02-21-2018, 11:51 AM
By whom? nobody is interested in minor league basketball. why would someone invest in something nobody wants to watch?



From a viewers perspective the only difference between college and the D league is the fact that your favorite school is on the front of the jersey. There are plenty of ex-college stars slumming it in the D-leauge. Why doesn't anybody want to watch them?

The colleges hold all the cards here. All of them. There is no interest in watching minor league basketball. The reason the tournament makes gobs of money is fact its tied to schools. Why would people tune in to watch ryan arcidiacono play for nova but not for the windy city bulls? It's because he's playing for nova...not because he's ryan arcidiacono.

The players are a commodity in the college game. We like to treat our players better, but on the whole? They're fungible. Villanova's entire team could be replaced with 12 other guys and people would still watch them. You could swap UNC's team with some D league team, and everyone would watch the UNC team and not the D league.

Say the players went on strike and decided to stop playing...each school could load up with 12 new guys next year, and people would STILL watch. The couple big names who could go straight to the league aside, it turns out that the value of a minor league player is about 40k a year. Whether they're getting that as a salary or as a scholarship is their choice (getting screwed by not actually getting an education aside).

I simply don't see a situation in which an independent league could possibly support, on average, more than the value of a scholarship...and frankly, without the schools, it probably wouldn't be even close. How heavily is the D league subsidized already?

I think you are underselling the product. Sure there are rooting interests, but if the entertainment factor is not there, I think most fans would tune out. The Duke women have D-U-K-E on their jersey's but not near the following the men do.

dudog84
02-21-2018, 01:20 PM
I think you are underselling the product. Sure there are rooting interests, but if the entertainment factor is not there, I think most fans would tune out. The Duke women have D-U-K-E on their jersey's but not near the following the men do.

I don't think that's an apt comparison/analogy. I'm more in tune with uh_no here. Sure some would watch, but the majority (vast majority?) would not. What is the viewership like for AAU games (I honestly don't know, but I bet it doesn't come close to college), and those are high school all-star games with the best players who will be in college in a few months.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-21-2018, 02:09 PM
A lot of folks on this board were very pro NCAA for a position they took a while back...

You will have to refresh my memory. I have only been active here for about ten years.

DukieInKansas
02-21-2018, 04:03 PM
IMO the players would have to be paid more, and they would have to get significant marketing/exposure. I think those are the two biggest drawbacks to the D league and the reasons why high schoolers don’t just go to the D league now. It’s not worth it to be paid $40k and play in mostly empty arenas when you could instead go to college, play in packed stadiums and on TV with millions of viewers, be showcased on ESPN advertising, and receive tuition, stipend, meals, training, etc.

And yet people say players aren't getting paid for playing ball in college. They just aren't getting cash - college ball is basically a bartering institution. Education, food, lodging, training, tv exposure in exchnage for playing ball for the college.

Not directed to you specifically but you summed up very nicely how they are "paid" to play college ball vs being paid cash to play in the D League.

PackMan97
02-21-2018, 04:36 PM
And yet people say players aren't getting paid for playing ball in college. They just aren't getting cash - college ball is basically a bartering institution. Education, food, lodging, training, tv exposure in exchnage for playing ball for the college.

Not directed to you specifically but you summed up very nicely how they are "paid" to play college ball vs being paid cash to play in the D League.

Well, some are getting fancy rental cars instead of an education...it's also worth noting that even at a school like Duke they are getting something valued at maybe $70-80k...where if they were allowed to be in the NBA they'd be getting far more training and TV exposure as well as a very nice minimum salary of $800k+. So 10x in cash what they are getting in non-cash from Duke. Keep in mind as good as Coach K might be, he's coaching for the college game plus he's limited in the amount of time he's allowed to spend with each kid.

dudog84
02-21-2018, 05:15 PM
Rick Pitino weighs in:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22532926/former-louisville-coach-rick-pitino-calls-ncaa-ruling-unjust-take-2013-national-championship-banner

DU82
02-21-2018, 07:07 PM
And yet people say players aren't getting paid for playing ball in college. They just aren't getting cash - college ball is basically a bartering institution. Education, food, lodging, training, tv exposure in exchnage for playing ball for the college.

Not directed to you specifically but you summed up very nicely how they are "paid" to play college ball vs being paid cash to play in the D League.

Well, technically they are getting paid. They get a monthly stipend in addition to tuition, room, board and books.

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-21-2018, 11:02 PM
Lord. Pitino sounded pathetic in his comments about the appeal denial. And boo on ESPN for showing pictures from the hooker parties. Yuck.

devildeac
02-21-2018, 11:08 PM
Lord. Pitino sounded pathetic in his comments about the appeal denial. And boo on ESPN for showing pictures from the hooker parties. Yuck.

Did they ever show any cheater transcripts from 1988-2011?

Nah, didn't think so.

:mad: